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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Mucking in the corners proves fun

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Nov 23, 2007 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

112307_13411.jpgI went to an NHL game today and I think I would go back.

The Bruins beat the Islanders 2-1 before a noon crowd of 17,565 at the new Garden. I know zippo about hockey, but neither team strikes me as being a contender. Although the Bruins have a 6-foot-9 defenseman. He looks enormous out there.

I’m fairly certain I attended a Bruins game when I was 9 or 10 but I can’t remember much of it. I’ve since attended a bunch of college and minor-league games. Hockey is fun to watch in person and a great excuse to drink beer.

A few things that struck me: Other than goals, the crowd only cheered when there were fights or scraps. … They use two zambonis during intermission and kids can ride them. How great is that? … We had club seats, which were pretty interesting. Great view, obviously, and Sam Adams Lite was available. But there were all manner of guys in suits. I assume they had skipped out of work. But, still, suits at a hockey game? That doesn’t seem right. … At the end of the game, they announced the three “stars of the game” and each guy skated over to the glass and gave a kid a stick. I though that was cool.

 
 

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147 Responses to “Mucking in the corners proves fun”

  1. Tony Stark November 23rd, 2007 at 6:32 pm

    You should consider going to a big Rangers game at the Garden. The atmosphere alone before a playoff game beats anything in New York sports, including the Yankees. (I’m a Yankees fan.)

    Also the press box at the garden is right in the corner and has a perfect view of the ice.

    Treat yourself…You won’t regret it..

  2. Buddy Biancalana November 23rd, 2007 at 6:36 pm

    Sorry Tony, don’t agree that a Rangers playoff game is more fun than a Yankees playoff game, I will give that the more intimate setting may add a different element to the atmosphere.

  3. Mark McCray November 23rd, 2007 at 6:40 pm

    Hockey is great to watch in person and horrible to watch on television. I’m from the Columbus, Ohio area and since the Yankees ditched the Clippers, the Blue Jackets are really the only thing Columbus has other than Ohio State. Even though the Blue Jackets are kind of garbage (well, more than kind of)the games are a lot of fun to go to.
    I am a little concerned about your choice of brew though, Peter. Sam Adams Lite? Of all the wonderful and delicious beer that Sam Adams brews you choose lite? Come on now!!! Bring on the Winter Ale!!!

  4. Flaz November 23rd, 2007 at 6:51 pm

    I grew up going to Edmonton Oilers’ games back in the 80′s with that amazing team of Gretzky and Company. Since then I can’t handle watching the boring game hockey has now again become. (In person or on TV.)

    Give me a spring training game between the Yankees and the Cowpuddle Swingers any day over a Stanley Cup finals game.

    (Then again I really enjoy the excitement of Sunday at the Masters, so maybe I know nothing.) : )

  5. Jennifer - HIP HIP JORGE! November 23rd, 2007 at 6:57 pm

    Mark, totally agree. I went to a game just to be socialable with friends and loved it!! I guess it didn’t hurt that I was right next to the glass. We saw one fight, unfortunatley it was on the other side of the rink. :(

  6. gayle November 23rd, 2007 at 7:15 pm

    I will be going to the BU-Cornell game tomorrow at MSG (GO BU). Have not been to a pro hockey game in eons. After going to BU and watching college hockey up in Boston there is nothing like it. The Beanpot is way better for excitement than anything although almost as close not quite up there qwith a Yankee playoff game.

    The game is a sellout and should be amazing!!!

  7. Jim PA November 23rd, 2007 at 7:23 pm

    Uh-oh, is this what we’ve been reduced to – hockey chat? There must be some baseball news out there. I hear the Royals are considering new garbage cans for the stadium…zzzz

  8. from high above the ice November 23rd, 2007 at 7:28 pm

    The Buffalo Sabres once had what was known as the “French Connection Line”.
    One of it’s members (Gilbert Perrault) was once asked what the 3 most important aspects of hockey was. He replied, “The backcheck, the forecheck, and the paycheck”.

  9. On D Ball November 23rd, 2007 at 7:34 pm

    I have a thought.

    Instead of going out and paying top dollar for a bunch of not very good relievers, why don’t the Yankees use some of the young talent that is not quite ready for prime time as relievers.

    That is the way they did it in the good old days of Ruth, Marris, and Yogi Berra.

  10. Jim PA November 23rd, 2007 at 7:40 pm

    D Ball:
    They did that this past year, in the good new days of Jeter, A Rod and Cano,(think Joba)

  11. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 23rd, 2007 at 7:47 pm

    My brother and I got a puck of game five of the 2000 Stanley Cup finals.

    The irony? The game was Devils/Stars and Langenbrunner was on the Stars at the time. He was the one that hit the puck…

    …and then lo and behold, Langenbrunner gets traded to the devils.

  12. Phil November 23rd, 2007 at 7:48 pm

    the big d-man for the Bruins is Chara. Hockey is a great sport, and the Bruins have a good history. Sadly, there are often a lot of Sox fans at their games;)

  13. Old Yanks Fan November 23rd, 2007 at 7:50 pm

    Pete – is talking ABOUT HOCKEY here legal? Certainly not ethical. Please… report some Yankees news. If there isn’t any, make like other journalists and make some up!

  14. i love rebecca November 23rd, 2007 at 7:58 pm

    rebecca, your so cool

  15. scottermcgavin November 23rd, 2007 at 8:00 pm

    I dont like peter being on vaca. Hockey is boring. Can’t wait for the winter meetings!

    Anyway in the meatime… Go Giants!!!!!

  16. Brian November 23rd, 2007 at 8:00 pm

    I’m a huge hockey fan.. actually an Islanders fan. Hockey games are awesome, really exciting especially Islander – Rangers games. Been to games in Boston and they are kinda boring compared to games in NY.

  17. Little Englander November 23rd, 2007 at 8:03 pm

    I saw a Red Wings/Ducks game at the Honda Center back in the new year. It was a great experience. I agree. Great to go to the game, but watching on TV is pretty boring.

  18. Mark McCray November 23rd, 2007 at 8:06 pm

    Haha, Jennifer fights are the best part of hockey! To bad it was across the rink when you saw one! BTW you can click my name.

  19. whozat November 23rd, 2007 at 8:08 pm

    “why don’t the Yankees use some of the young talent that is not quite ready for prime time as relievers.”

    Um…they’re already doing that. Joba, this year, along with Ohlendorf. Humberto Sanchez, probably.

  20. whozat November 23rd, 2007 at 8:11 pm

    “I will be going to the BU-Cornell game tomorrow at MSG”

    I went to a hockey game at Cornell, once, when they were playing my alma mater. At my school, the security staff come and yell at you if you’re being “mean” to the opposing players. At Cornell, the leader of the marching band organized crowd-wide, unison heckling.

    My school is wussified. Boo.

    Also, I hear at BC-BU games, students would find out details of opposing players lives (mother’s names, sister’s names, etc) and personalize their heckling.

    That’s dedication! And kind of scary.

  21. Harsh November 23rd, 2007 at 8:32 pm

    Phil, I went a Rangers-Bruins game last month at the Garden, there was more people wearing Sox gear then Bruins stuff which is kinda odd, but I agree, hockey is great to watch in person.

  22. pat November 23rd, 2007 at 8:36 pm

    Cordero to the Reds. 4 years $46 million.

  23. Joe from Long Island November 23rd, 2007 at 8:41 pm

    Pete –
    The only socially redeeming feature of going to hockey games is drinking beer.

    Cordero to Reds for 4/$46M – ave. 11.5M/year – Amazing. Mo’s record-setting contract will be by the wayside by the New Year at this rate.

  24. Jennifer - HIP HIP JORGE! November 23rd, 2007 at 8:43 pm

    Pat you have to be kidding me!! Cordero gets 11.5 a year!! He isn’t half the pitcher Mo is.

  25. Joe from Long Island November 23rd, 2007 at 8:45 pm

    Pete -

    Cordero — 4/46 M — amazing!

  26. DHC November 23rd, 2007 at 9:17 pm

    That’s why MLB was peeved at NYY.

  27. scottermcgavin November 23rd, 2007 at 9:30 pm

    Cordero is the best closer to ever play the game… riiggghhhtttt

  28. scottermcgavin November 23rd, 2007 at 9:31 pm

    I am worried bout Yanks Pen this year so far. But I also don’t want Cash to make any crazy moves to fill the void…

  29. scootermcgavin November 23rd, 2007 at 9:33 pm

    Discovery Channel… Man vs. Wild…

  30. Jaewon November 23rd, 2007 at 10:03 pm

    anybody watching this rangers-florida game? In OT. . . a Florida winning goal got pulled back with a penalty. . . great game on MSG

  31. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") November 23rd, 2007 at 10:16 pm

    damn Valiquette gave a great effort we Rangers lose in a tough shootout 1 – 0 after Valiquette made some amazing saves

  32. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") November 23rd, 2007 at 10:19 pm

    wait a minute …

    CORDERO IS GETTING $11 M per year !!!!

  33. Chris Serico November 23rd, 2007 at 10:20 pm

    College hockey really is fun, especially in Boston. I’d be among the first to make fun of it before seeing it live, but as a Boston College alum, I can vouch for the fact that there’s an electricity in those stands that makes it feel like life or death. That Hockey East conference is fierce, too.

    But yes, I miss the Yankees news. The good news for readers of this blog is I feel like the Yankees are working with Pete Abraham’s vacation here. They’re waiting for his break to end before there’s news of any signings being finalized.

    (Smart, Pete!)

  34. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 23rd, 2007 at 10:20 pm

    Devils won! Finally!

    *oddlooks probable troll*

  35. What's going on here? November 23rd, 2007 at 10:31 pm

    I hope Peter is getting fired from the Journal News headquarters for writing non-sence articles on their Yankees blog.

  36. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 23rd, 2007 at 10:35 pm

    If you can’t handle a non-baseball post when 98% of the posts here ARE Yankees, you seriously need a chill pill.

  37. Josh November 23rd, 2007 at 10:35 pm

    Pete,

    If you think there is alot of “Suits” at a Bruins game, you should attend a Maple Leafs game in Toronto. The suits completely fill the first level at the ACC. In total Corporate suits probaly account for over 70% of the attendance per game. It’s really sad for actual Leaf fans as anyone can from Toront can attest it is near impossible to get tickets, let alone for a reasonable price.

  38. ray November 23rd, 2007 at 10:40 pm

    What’s going on here?
    November 23rd, 2007 at 10:31 pm
    “I hope Peter is getting fired from the Journal News headquarters for writing non-sence articles on their Yankees blog.”

    What’s going on here…….I am not even a Yankee fan but I hang out here on this blog because I find it to be a great source of baseball information and the people who write on here on(with a few exceptions..lol) are very knowledgeable about baseball. From what I have seen Peter is the hardest working beat writer who has a blog and is always putting updates on this blog. Your comments about him and this blog are a reflection on you and not on him.

  39. zzzzzzz November 23rd, 2007 at 10:42 pm

    ZZZZZZZZ Agreed!

  40. Manton November 23rd, 2007 at 10:43 pm

    There is nothing quite like a BU/BC hockey game. Nothing. I’m going to Cornell/BU tomorrow (once again, GO BU!) and am really excited to see what’s going to happen in an arena like MSG. Should be fun.

    (Also, BU fans find out things about every team and criticize. There have been some real doozies over the years. But we step up our game for our bitter BC rivals.)

  41. zzzzzzz November 23rd, 2007 at 10:45 pm

    Go back to boston Ray!!!! Shouldn’t you be happy or something that the red sucks didn’t have to face the Yankees in postseason and eeked out a win?

  42. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") November 23rd, 2007 at 10:52 pm

    oh brother…

  43. li November 23rd, 2007 at 10:55 pm

    I really need a Yankees fix.

  44. Jennifer - HIP HIP JORGE! November 23rd, 2007 at 11:04 pm

    ray You are totally correct. If you look at any of the other blogs run by newspapers, Pete is the only one updated routinely. The others can go a long time between updates, even during the season. If those posting negative things, don’t like it, here’s a hint DON’T READ IT!! You know there is a little x in the upper right corner click it!!

  45. Jennifer - HIP HIP JORGE! November 23rd, 2007 at 11:13 pm

    Li me too! When do winter meetings start? That is when the Yankee hot stove should start!

  46. pat November 23rd, 2007 at 11:16 pm

    Santana update. He’s approved the Twins to investigate trades. Twins offered a 4 year $80 million extension, Santana was looking for a 6 year extension. Yanks have the pieces to get it done, the question is how much they are willing to part with to make it happen.

    http://www.startribune.com/509/story/1570285.html

  47. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") November 23rd, 2007 at 11:22 pm

    I’d rather trade Kennedy and Wang than Hughes

    and I preferably would want to keep Tabata and Jackson I think Miranda could be a guy that interests the Twins

  48. YankeeJosh November 23rd, 2007 at 11:26 pm

    The Twins want at least three premium young players for Santana, and they hope to address their gaping holes at third base or center field.

    Cano, Horne, Tabata and Melky I’d be willing to do. I might even throw in Kennedy. I think trading Joba or Huges would be a mistake. These 2 look like solid pitchers who can help now, and they are cheap. Certainly finding a replacement for Cano won’t be easy, but there are adequate second basemen out there and with A-Rod back, offense isn’t this teams problem

    A rotation of Santana, Wang, Hughes, Joba and either Mussina, Kennedy or Pettitte is a rotation that can win in the post-season and serve well enough to get us there.

  49. PittsburghYankeeFan November 23rd, 2007 at 11:28 pm

    Santana will get $20 million x 5 from the Twins. Will he take it?

  50. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") November 23rd, 2007 at 11:29 pm

    YankeeJosh, are you kidding me ?

  51. YankeeJosh November 23rd, 2007 at 11:39 pm

    Cano is a flawed but talented player. I wouldn’t trade him for just anyone but this is Johan Santana, the best pitcher in the game, and a lefty to boot, who is still under 30. Pitching is much harder to come by these days, which is why Hughes and Joba would be non-starters to me.

    Cano did manage 39 walks this past season, but even that is too low. The hack first hitters (Soriano, Cano etc) are the types that don’t succeed in big spots and the post-season imo. Again, I don’t mean to badmouth Cano, s I like him a lot. But this offense scored 900+ runs last year.

    The last time the Yankees were near the top in league pitching was 2003. That’s also the last year the team made it to the World Series. That’s not a coincidence. Trading Hughes or Joba only marginally improves the pitching rotation, since we’d lose a pitcher before gaining one.

    The offense still has capable bats in Abreu, Damon, Matsui, Posada, Jeter and A-Rod. Giving up some offense to boost the pitching would be a much better move than giving up the troika.

  52. Jennifer - HIP HIP JORGE! November 23rd, 2007 at 11:40 pm

    Yeah Yankeejosh that is a little much! Do we know if Johan can pitch under the bright lights of NY? He also gave up alot of homeruns last year. I am just nervous if we give up alot of our star prospects, give him 20 plus million a year and he is on the down side of his career. I want the Hughes, and Kennedys of the world to be successful with us, not someone else!

    Look the soxs starters aren’t going to be better next year, maybe with the exception of Dice K.

    Beckett will not have the same great year again.
    Schilling will be a year older
    Wake- see above
    Lester- he is a rookie so it remains to be seen
    Dice- can go either way, what you see is what you get, or he adjusts.

  53. YankeeJosh November 23rd, 2007 at 11:50 pm

    Jennifer-

    He does have a lot of imnnings on him but Santana is still under 30. He won the Cy Young just two years ago and in a bad year pitched to a 3.29 ERA. He clearly was frustrated pitching for a bad Twins team. He eats innings, shuts down teams and is still in his prime. Can he handle the NY pressure? That’s unknown but I’m willing to chance it.

    You have to give talent to get talent. Beckett won’t have the same year he did this year next year but he will be good. Lester and Buchholz both look promising and Schilling is always a battler.

    The way to beat the Sox and compete is to match their quality pitching. That’s how this team won in the late 90′s. Santana, Hughes, Joba, Wang, Pettitte or Kennedy is a solid rotation. Horne would be expendable. Cano is the centerpiece, and Tabata would have to be the other big prospect unless you wanted to swap Kennedy there.

    Santana will not come cheap but he’s too good not to try to get.

  54. Jennifer - HIP HIP JORGE! November 23rd, 2007 at 11:54 pm

    Who plays second if you give up Cano? I might be willing to part with Tabata since Action Jackson is supposed to be very good! I actually think the Yankees think either Tabata or Jackson will be ready for 2009 otherwise they might have tried to renegotiate with Bobby. Now they better hope either will be ready with where the outfield market went with Hunter.

  55. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") November 23rd, 2007 at 11:54 pm

    Cano is a flawed but talented player. I wouldn’t trade him for just anyone but this is Johan Santana, the best pitcher in the game, and a lefty to boot, who is still under 30. Pitching is much harder to come by these days, which is why Hughes and Joba would be non-starters to me.

    Cano did manage 39 walks this past season, but even that is too low. The hack first hitters (Soriano, Cano etc) are the types that don’t succeed in big spots and the post-season imo. Again, I don’t mean to badmouth Cano, s I like him a lot. But this offense scored 900+ runs last year.

    The offense still has capable bats in Abreu, Damon, Matsui, Posada, Jeter and A-Rod. Giving up some offense to boost the pitching would be a much better move than giving up the troika.

    this is my arguement if Santan is looking for pay day which he is then let him go free agency because last we heard it wad 5 yrs. $126 M if that’s the case a 7 yr. contract we’re talking about $180 M plus a surplus tax of 40% we’re touching $250 Million for a LH SP who is an ace but is in his mid 30’s…WHY TRADE PROSPECTS FOR HIM ?

    Your talking about building another teams franchise, in this proposed offer/deal Tabata, Cano there’s RF & 2B for the next 6 yrs., Horne, Kennedy, # 3 SP and a #2 SP or MRP, your building the Twins, what do you want to leave the Yankees with 35 yr. olds ? this is suppose to be rebuilding from within while making a better run for the WS, not handicapping us. we already know this group Damon, Matsui, Abreu, Jeter, Alex they didn’t get the job done !! why are we building for them they already are under contract, if Santana offers reach that height let him go !! he’s HR prone at 28 who’s to say when he gets to 34 he’s worth $20 M
    this is what we want to avoid.

  56. raymagnetic November 23rd, 2007 at 11:55 pm

    Cano did manage 39 walks this past season, but even that is too low. The hack first hitters (Soriano, Cano etc) are the types that don’t succeed in big spots and the post-season imo. Again, I don’t mean to badmouth Cano, s I like him a lot. But this offense scored 900+ runs last year.

    Do you know what you’re talking about? Cano doubled his walk total from a year ago which means he is developing plate discipline.

    .333 .375 .800 That is Cano’s BA/OBP/SLG this year in the playoffs.

    It’s a wonder that you’re not a GM already.

  57. Jennifer - HIP HIP JORGE! November 23rd, 2007 at 11:55 pm

    Another thing, if somehow we are able to trade Matsui, we shouldn’t have to pay any of his salary since he is cheap compared to Hunter.

  58. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") November 23rd, 2007 at 11:59 pm

    Do you know what you’re talking about? Cano doubled his walk total from a year ago which means he is developing plate discipline.

    .333 .375 .800 That is Cano’s BA/OBP/SLG this year in the playoffs.

    It’s a wonder that you’re not a GM already.

    not even Bernie Williams improved at the rate that Robi Cano is and now we hgot people looking for quick fixes I can’t stand that type of stuff

  59. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") November 24th, 2007 at 12:01 am

    I seriously pray that the Yankees don’t get stupid in this persuit for Santana, the key here is acquire an ACE, no where is it etched in stone that the Ace has to be Johan Santana

  60. Jennifer - HIP HIP JORGE! November 24th, 2007 at 12:03 am

    Who knows we just might have the ace on our staff already. Hughes looked very good in a high pressure situation.

  61. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") November 24th, 2007 at 12:06 am

    and we still have Christian Garcia and Alan Horne, for some reason not enough people are talking about Dan McCutchen he’s a hardthrower too

  62. Andrea November 24th, 2007 at 12:06 am

    I really think that the Mets will win the Santana bidding war. I say this because I think they’re willing to give up the most for him. After their collapse this past season, I think they’re desperate and willing to do anything at this point.

    I think that they’d be willing to give up their future more than, say, the Yankees or Red Sox would be.

  63. Jennifer - HIP HIP JORGE! November 24th, 2007 at 12:07 am

    And Marquez, and hopefully Humberto will be ready for st and maybe can make his way into the pen.

  64. Jennifer - HIP HIP JORGE! November 24th, 2007 at 12:10 am

    They don’t have quality though. Pelfry and Humber both didn’t look very good when they were called up and I think the bloom is off the rose on Heilman.

  65. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") November 24th, 2007 at 12:10 am

    I really think that the Mets will win the Santana bidding war. I say this because I think they’re willing to give up the most for him. After their collapse this past season, I think they’re desperate and willing to do anything at this point.

    they have no chance unless they are willing to trade Jose Reyes, heck don’t be surprised if the Braves step into this and here’s a few darkhorses the Philadelphia Phillies or LA Dodgers, they have the prospects too

  66. Shant November 24th, 2007 at 12:11 am

    Pete – after every Rangers home victory, the team gathers at center ice and they raise their sticks to salute the crowd. IMHO, it’s one of the best sites in sports.

  67. YankeeJosh November 24th, 2007 at 12:12 am

    Brandon,

    I said Horne or Kennedy. You have to give up something for Santana and Cano is a better option than Hughes or Joba. My proposal keeps us with a series of strong young starters. Decent bats are much easier to find than great pitchers. And make no mistake, Santana is great. He’s no Pavano or Vazquez.

    raymagnetic

    The fact that 39 is double his total is exactly my point. He had a .353 OBP this past year. His numbers in this years playoffs were great but he had an Awful series in 2005. .133 BA, OBP and Slugging. His approach at the plate doesn’t project out for him being a strong post-season player. The top pitchers will be able to work the count and get him out. Of course in any given series there can be exceptions.

    All that being said I really like Cano. He has a great skill for being able to hit most pitches and has increased the walk total, although not nearly enough.

    My point simply is that of the talent we have, he is the best to give up for Santana. Pitching wins most of the time and it is time this team got back to that philosphy. It’s about winning world championships, not about having the best statistical players at every position.

  68. YankeeJosh November 24th, 2007 at 12:14 am

    Jennifer-

    I agree with you about Hughes. It’s why he and Joba would be non-starters for any potential deal.

  69. Seth November 24th, 2007 at 12:16 am

    Hockey is a fantastic sport to watch, glad you enjoyed yourself. I wish I saw more people write about their enjoyment of hockey; maybe the American public would realize the sport exists.

  70. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") November 24th, 2007 at 12:20 am

    YankeeJosh, problem is what you are doing is your building the team for the 96′ team it’s time to stop that, this team needs to be built for the next generation the Cano,Tabata, Jackson… not the Jeters not the Posada and Matsui, not the Pettittes, the next tier Sanchez, Joba, Betances, McCallister, Heredia, Angelini yes even CJ Henry

  71. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") November 24th, 2007 at 12:21 am

    Building the next not hanging to the old should be our mission, it’s time

  72. Andrea November 24th, 2007 at 12:23 am

    wow, could I have said “I think” more times?

    And are the Twins looking for pitching in return? I was under the impression they were looking for OF in return, and the Mets do have that. I saw Gomez in his first game, and he’s GOOD. Really good. Milledge–eh. He’s got power, but he’s obnoxious.

  73. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") November 24th, 2007 at 12:29 am

    Andrea, problem w/ Gomez is because of his injury no one knows what type of hitter he is, so he isn’t more than a speedier Posednik to other teams GM, Milledge is a headache some even think he is overrated at what he can do for a full season, Minny’s absolutely asking for Reyes or Wright if one of them isn’t the center piece than Mets can bow out.

    As for Boston Crisp isn’t a commodity, he is overpaid, Ellsbury again not enough power evidence to be a centerpiece in a deal, Minny’s not going cheap for this guy and like I said the point is to GET AN ACE not GET A SANTANA BY ANY MEANS NECCESSARY

  74. YankeeJosh November 24th, 2007 at 12:31 am

    As a general rule, the teams that win are teams that have the best pitching. The White Sox in 2005, The Tigers to the series in 2006 and the Red Sox in 2007. The way to build the next championship is through the pitching.

    Prospects are great but they are still prospects. I for one was thrilled that the Yankees avoided trading Eric Duncan as I thought he was a sure thing but after all these years, he is looking like a bust. CJ Henry is already well-travelled. Sometimes the best move is trading prospects when their value is highest so you can get a good return.

  75. niven November 24th, 2007 at 12:35 am

    Hockey is almost as good as baseball and MUCH better the football

  76. raymagnetic November 24th, 2007 at 12:39 am

    YankeeJosh you do realize that Robinson Cano is a 24 year old 2nd baseman who has a career OPS+ of 117 and he’s been trending higher with his slugging percentage/HR/RBI every year he’s been in the big league. He’s only going to get better.

    You do also realize that if Cano gets 600 AB’s in the postseason his numbers will most likely be the same as his career numbers, meaning that in 600 AB’s he’ll more than likely be an .800+ OPS second baseman.

    But yeah, the Yanks should trade him and Kennedy and 2/3 other farm players with bright futures for 1 pitcher. This makes absolute sense to me.

  77. raymagnetic November 24th, 2007 at 12:41 am

    As a general rule, the teams that win are teams that have the best pitching. The White Sox in 2005, The Tigers to the series in 2006 and the Red Sox in 2007. The way to build the next championship is through the pitching.

    This is such a myth. Do you really think the 2006 Cardinals had a better pitching staff than the Tigers. Do you know that the Red Sox had a +5 ERA vs. the Indians in this years playoffs?

  78. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") November 24th, 2007 at 12:45 am

    As a general rule, the teams that win are teams that have the best pitching. The White Sox in 2005, The Tigers to the series in 2006 and the Red Sox in 2007. The way to build the next championship is through the pitching.

    yes lets talk about these teams

    White Soxs 05′ did it w/ pitching prospects in Bobby Jenks, Mark Buehrle, Jon Garland and prospects like Iguchi,Neal Cotts, Joe Crede, Posednik, Aaron Rowand

    The Detroit Tigers again young pitching & prospects, Bonderman, Verlander, German, that lefty I can remember that Jetes went 5 for 5 on, Brandon Inge, Curtis Granderson, Craig Monroe, Joel Zumaya

    The Boston Redsoxs, Josh Beckett, Youkilis, , Papelbon, this season ad Ellsbury, Lester, Delcarmen…

    The Marlins of 03′ same crap, Cabrera, Beckett, Pierre, Burnett, Dontrelle

    so you see prospects mean alot to a franchise maybe even the difference, look at Stl. w/ Yadier “freakin” Molina to METS FANS ;) , So Taguchi, Adam Wainwright…Albert Pujols ..all prospects

  79. Steve Balboni November 24th, 2007 at 12:53 am

    Brandon-

    How old are you, honestly?

  80. Dewey November 24th, 2007 at 12:55 am

    Im a big Islanders fan and happened to catch your blog before I turned on the game today. Since you are close to the NY area, I highly recommend you attend an Islanders/Rangers game either at the Garden or the Coliseum, you won’t be disappointed. Great rivalry.

    I also agree w/ all of the posts above, hockey is overlooked & its a shame. Its such a great sport.

    One great thing about my Yanks’ Spring Training trip in March.. the Isles will be in Tampa Bay the same week I will be! Whoo-hoo!

  81. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") November 24th, 2007 at 12:57 am

    Steve Balboni, I’m in my mid 20′s don’t know what it has to do w/ anything just make your point.

  82. Buddy Biancalana November 24th, 2007 at 12:57 am

    Looks like Isiah’s days are numbered.

  83. YankeeJosh November 24th, 2007 at 12:58 am

    raymagnetic

    I don’t advocate trading the entire farm. in fact, I was against any deal for Cabrera because of that. Santana is an exception. I said trade 4 players. Cano as the centerpiece. He’s a very good player. IMO, he’s less valuable than Hughes or Joba to the Yankees. Melky is a nice player to slide into the deal. Horne is an extra pitcher who won’t be needed since the team has such depth there. Tabata projects out to be really good, but he’s still an unknown quantity. Trade Horne and you still have Sanchez, Brackman, Ohlendorf, Kennedy as pitching depth.

    And as for pitching, I said it’s a general rule, as the Cardinals were the exception, as were the 2002 Angels. The red Sox may have had a plus ERA against the Indians but they still outpitched them. Beckett and Schilling were better than Sabbathia and Carmona by a lot.

    I agree that giving up two pitchers for one is insane. The Yankees were the top offensive team in 2007. It makes sense to trade from a strength to boost a weakness.

    If the Yankees had a bad offensive team, than I wouldn’t trade Cano. I’d love to trade Melky and Clippard for Santana but that won’t get it done.

  84. Andrea November 24th, 2007 at 12:59 am

    I agree on Crisp. I don’t think he’s good enough to get a trade done for Santana.

    I still think that the Mets are willing to give up ANYTHING for Santana. I don’t think that the Yankees or Red Sox are going to give up everything the Twins ask for.

  85. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") November 24th, 2007 at 12:59 am

    Looks like Isiah’s days are numbered.

    did they fire him :D

  86. Buddy Biancalana November 24th, 2007 at 1:03 am

    The 2005 White Sox pitching in the playoffs was absolutely lights out, can’t remember pitching like that in a long time. Garcia, Contreras & even El Duque were incredible, they could have won every game 1-0.

  87. Buddy Biancalana November 24th, 2007 at 1:05 am

    Agreed Andrea-

    The Mets will get Santana, Minaya will overpay & they have a lot to give up, most likely will happen at the Winter Meetings.

  88. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") November 24th, 2007 at 1:05 am

    Ozzie Guillen had alot to do w/ the W.Sox and their 05 run, now why is Isiah’s days numbered what did I miss

  89. Buddy Biancalana November 24th, 2007 at 1:07 am

    Isiah

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11.....ref=slogin

  90. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") November 24th, 2007 at 1:09 am

    The Mets will get Santana, Minaya will overpay & they have a lot to give up, most likely will happen at the Winter Meetings.

    Let me be Minnesota’s GM

    “Omar lets cut the chitchat I want David or Jose in this deal and throw in Lastings and I also want Heilman & Pelfrey, you want to get this done right now before I speak to another team that’s what I want, Do we have a deal ?”

  91. Buddy Biancalana November 24th, 2007 at 1:11 am

    Gomez & Martinez will be discussed as well, Reyes & Wright are not going to be traded.

  92. raymagnetic November 24th, 2007 at 1:13 am

    Yankees Josh, this is pretty pointless, but Horne is considered to be just a notch below the big trio and it’s said he has better stuff than Ian Kennedy.

    The only Red Sox starter who pitched well against the Indians was Beckett. None of their other pitchers had an ERA under 4 against the Indians.

    Tabata is considered the Yankees top position prospect. He had a bad wrist and still had a batting average over .300 and still got on base a ton.

    Cano is the Yankees best position player under 30 so it wouldn’t make much sense to trade him as he has not yet reached his peak and he’s still arb eligible and he’s arguably the top 2nd baseman in the AL.

  93. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") November 24th, 2007 at 1:17 am

    Gomez & Martinez will be discussed as well, Reyes & Wright are not going to be traded.

    Let me be Minnesota’s GM

    “Omar your kidding me right Gomez was hurt and didn’t dominate in the AL I got LA willing to give me Looney and Kemp and your low balling me w/ another AA OF who didn’t even dominate nor finished the season, I’m trading you Johan for that ? lose my number Omar”

  94. Buddy Biancalana November 24th, 2007 at 1:19 am

    Ozzie Guillen basically had the same roster for 2007 that he did in 2005, w/o the great pitching run they had in 2005 they would not have been champs in addition to Josh Paul.

  95. zzzzzzz November 24th, 2007 at 1:19 am

    If Yankees let Boston get Santana like they (boston) got Dice-k Yanks are crazy.

  96. Daniel November 24th, 2007 at 1:21 am

    Fairly certain this is an intoxicated blogging! lol

  97. zzzzzzz November 24th, 2007 at 1:22 am

    Boston went on a shopping spree last year and wanted to buy a championship, and by gosh they bought one this year. Yankees need to go shopping too.

  98. Buddy Biancalana November 24th, 2007 at 1:22 am

    Daniel-

    No kidding! Feel like I need therapy after reading Brandons comments.

  99. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") November 24th, 2007 at 1:26 am

    well Buddy, it’s kind of weird for anyone to think Minny won’t ask for Wright or Reyes, this is Johan Santana they are trying to acquire, Ferenando Martinez and Carlos Gomez I mean com’on

  100. mel November 24th, 2007 at 1:26 am

    Buddy,

    Do you feel like you have to take a shower after reading them? Just kidding. Just jumped to the bottom of the page and read your comment.

  101. CaptainsCorner November 24th, 2007 at 1:41 am

    I really think that Cashman will give up anyone(besides Cano or Joba) to get Santana. It is extremely rare when you have the chance to trade for the best starter in baseball. Also that he is a lefty doesnt hurt. The Yanks need a #1 starter very badly, I dont think they can win the WS until they get one, and if they dont get Santana this year or next who knows when the next chance will be to get someone like him. Wang can not hold his own as a #1. I would hate to trade Hughes but I really think that Cash would for Santana and that is the only person that he would trade him for. The Mets dont have enough to get Santana because they wont trade Reyes.

  102. Way too young... November 24th, 2007 at 2:17 am

    Did you see that Joe Kennedy died? Reports are that he passed away last night after colapsing.

    Joe pitched for a couple of teams, most recently the Blue Jays.

    That is awful. 28 years old.

  103. Andrea November 24th, 2007 at 5:55 am

    It’s not often I see people just STOP posting for 4 hours!

  104. Ed FL November 24th, 2007 at 7:35 am

    As well know the Yankees need to upgrade their bullpen. The answers might be coming from inside the organization.Scott Patterso is having a very good season in winter baseball. He is playing for Cardenales de Lara(Venezuela).He has “extended his scoreless streak to 14 2/3 innings while limiting hitters to a .180 batting average”(mlb). Maybe the Yankees have found a good relief pitcher.He was never drafted out of college, spent years playing in Independent leagues. Maybe he is a late bloomer.I dont remenber the Yankees signing any player out of the independent leagues until now. Cashman might have improved this part of scouting too.

  105. Phil - 27 in '08 November 24th, 2007 at 8:33 am

    Ramirez came out of the independents after being dropped by the Angels.

  106. gayle November 24th, 2007 at 8:34 am

    Ed–

    Edwar Ramirez was signed by the Yankees from the Independent League I believe

  107. Swami sez ....... November 24th, 2007 at 8:38 am

    Robby Cano’s mental lapses will cease and his plate discipline will improve under Joe Girardi. He stands a chance at being a very key Yankee in ’08.
    The jury should still be out with Santana. He hasn’t fared that well against teams that see him a lot in his own Central Division. His numbers at tiny Fenway Park are not head turning except if it’s on the negative side.

  108. yanks61 November 24th, 2007 at 9:02 am

    I’m glad to see you folks waking up over there in the U.S.!

    Good morning all. I hope you’ve all had and are still having a great holiday weekend.

    As Raymagnetic has kindly pointed out to me (thanks Ray!), what we say here and whether or not we all agree here on any issue, “doesn’t really amount to a hill of beans,” (and thanks to you Rick, hope you got the nightclub back at the end of the war.) But like misery, genius loves company, so forgive me if I’m still pleased that a lot folks here join me in not wanting to see the ‘kids’ get traded. But heh,I wouldn’t be surprised if Cash is looking in here every day and taking the pulse beat of popular feeling on NY’s most popular blog!

    I’ll be the first to jump on here and make my apologies, but I seriously don’t believe Sanatana is going anywhere (except for a possible rental at some point), unless some team not only blows away the Twins with a deal, but also blows away Santana with an extension. I mean, after the Zito contract, the guy is looking at a ton of money/years.

    Yes, Andrea (and a couple of others), I believe the Mets could just be desperate enough to do the money part, but will they play ball with the Twins and give up Reyes? I could be wrong, but I don’t see Milledge being enough.

    In any case, this ought to be another interesting winter. I hope the Yanks come out of it with a proven set up guy. Then I think they’ll be ready to roll; make that rock and roll!

  109. Paul November 24th, 2007 at 9:16 am

    I used to like to watch “Hockey Night in Canada” on CKWS Kingston back in the day of the 6 team league. 1970ish. It was a family thing. Half yard glasses of ginger ale and popcorn. Great fun. I think they play very dirty now. It used to be more finesse, imo.

  110. Annie Savoy November 24th, 2007 at 9:19 am

    Hi Pete – Glad you enjoyed the game.

    My late husband was a hockey ref and when Brian Leetch skated onto our town rink at a very early age, John came home and said – we’ve got a new hockey star – he can already skate the length of the rink without falling.

    We all know what happened with Brian – they will be raising his number in the Garden 1/24/08.

    I’ve been to hockey night in Canada at the Montreal Forum, an innumberable number of Ranger games in the old Garden (where beer was poured down my back on New Years Eve) and in the new Garden with some of the MSG ‘suits’. As a Yale employee, I’ve gone to games at the Yale Whale.

    It’s a great game, but as another poster wrote – it doesn’t do well on TV. And if you are sitting near the ice – don’t take your eyes off the puck – I’ve seen some accidents to fans.

    Enjoy.

  111. Today's question November 24th, 2007 at 9:31 am

    If Johan Santana is that much of a force, then why hasn’t he taken the Twins to the promised land ?
    He’s had support from the likes of Hunter, Morneau, Mauer, and others. He’s had one of the better closers in the game in Joe Nathan. It’s not like he’s been the only decent starter the Twins have had.
    Is he really worth good talent and / or a contract that will exceed Zito kind of money ?

  112. 56Bomber November 24th, 2007 at 9:41 am

    Here’s some food for thought – why would lefty Santana want to sign a long term extension to pitch at Fenway? Unless he’s the second coming of Lefty Grove I think his numbers will suffer. His current numbers there are very average (1-2, 3.5+ era – although he has barely pitched there at all… something like a total of 12 innings). And if he checks out the hit chart (see the URL below – old article but interesting graphic) to left field comparing Fenway and Yankee stadium… I think he’d shudder at the thought. Of course the payday might be more important than the career numbers.

    http://www.hardballtimes.com/m.....nway-park/

  113. Mike NYY- Welcome home Alex November 24th, 2007 at 9:45 am

    Anyone want to check out my post on my blog about Santana I`ve been flip-flopping on that for a while and I`ve decided its a bad idea.

  114. Jim PA November 24th, 2007 at 9:47 am

    Okay, so what about D train, while the price is still affordable after an off-year. If he has a good first half in ’08 his stock goes back up and Florida will ask a lot more for him.

  115. Ed FL November 24th, 2007 at 10:05 am

    Gayle & Phil,

    Thanks, I forgot Ramirez.

  116. Joe from Long Island November 24th, 2007 at 10:23 am

    I’m leary of D-train. He hasn’t just had one off year, he’s been going downhill for a couple of years. Plus, I’ve always been skeptical of his delivery, he looks like an accident or injury waiting to happen. Yes, he can suddenly take-off again, and his price goes up; I’m just leary of acquiring him.

    Maybe this is where Joe G’s inside knowledge could be useful.

  117. Buddy Biancalana November 24th, 2007 at 10:33 am

    Brandon-

    I never said all it would take to acquire Santana was Martinez & Gomez from the Mets. They would want around 4-5 players mostly offense since they have some good young pitching. Those guys are just a starting point of a bigger deal.

  118. yanks61 November 24th, 2007 at 10:47 am

    Mike NYY,

    Yes, the post on your blog makes a lot of sense. And, as I keep saying, I hope the Yanks don’t go for the instant gratification. The young stars are worth waiting for and if the chips fall right, the Yanks may get Santana anyway next year (a real case of eating your cake and having it too!)

    Meanwhile, 56Bomber, above at 9:41, makes some excellent points as well. If Santana is smart, he waits for the bidding war, his payday and his pinstripes.

  119. Buddy Biancalana November 24th, 2007 at 10:49 am

    This from Buster Olney’s blog today on Johan:

    The Johan Santana sweepstakes are about to begin, writes Kat O’Brien. In a report earlier in the week, there was mention that the Twins had offered a five-year, $93 million deal, and that Santana might be looking for something in the Barry Zito range — an inference to the seven-year, $126 million dollar deal that Zito got from San Francisco last winter.

    Heard from a well-placed source that the Twins offer was four years and $80 million, and in fact, Barry Zito money is significantly less than what Santana may be looking for. In fact, Santana may open contract discussions for something in the range of six years and $150 million, beginning with the 2009 season (the left-hander is under contract for $13.25 million for next season). This will make it extraordinarily difficult for the Twins to trade the left-hander, because of the dynamics that are in play:

    1. Santana has a no-trade clause, which means that he can decline any deal unless the team making the swap for him agrees to give him what he wants — and he is in position to ask for a deal that will redefine the ceiling of what pitchers are paid.

    Say that the Red Sox arranged for the framework of a trade with the Twins. Santana would use the no-trade clause as leverage to ask the Red Sox (or any other team) for the record-setting deal, and he would be in position to effectively name his price. He could say, Pay me what I want, or else I’ll kill the deal and just wait for free agency. And remember how remarkable a salary of $25 million would be — Santana would be the first pitcher ever to receive a multi-year deal worth at least $20 million, and his deal would go far beyond that, by about 25 percent. “Do you know how much it would cost to insure a deal like that?” an executive with another team asked rhetorically.

    2. Because of Santana’s apparent salary requirements, any team looking to trade for the left-hander would not only be asked to give up a boatload of prospects — including at least one or two of their very best prospects — but then also pay him a record-setting contract.

    If you are the Red Sox, should you be willing to trade Clay Buchholz and/or Jon Lester and/or Jacoby Ellsbury — and then throw in a $150 million contract extension? Or would you rather just take your chances and wait to bid on Santana should he become available next fall? If you are the Yankees, should you offer Phil Hughes and others now and then give Santana the biggest pitcher contract ever, or should you wait?

    3. Lest there be any doubt, there will be a team willing to give up prospects in a Santana deal. The Mets, for instance, might be very aggressive and agree to give up a package of players, while knowing how much they might have to pay the left-hander. But then the Twins will have to ask themselves, before agreeing — are we getting enough in return?

    Say that the Mets offered outfielder Lastings Milledge and pitchers Mike Pelfrey, Phil Humber and Joe Smith. Billy Smith, Minnesota’s new general manager, is in his first year, and if he trades Santana, the deal will go a long way to shaping his legacy, and perhaps his future. A Santana deal would also go a long way to determining the relationship between the Twins and their fan base in the immediate future — a fan base that is paying for the ballpark being built for the Twins. Would a package of Milledge, Humber and Pelfrey be enough, when weighed against the backlash that Smith and the organization will feel, if they trade the planet’s best pitcher? Is any deal enough?

    Smith will have to ask himself: Would it be better to hang onto Santana for 2008 and hope that he and Francisco Liriano lead the Twins back into the pennant race next season? The Twins could always revisit trade talks next July, if the team is falling out of the race.

    Smith will have to ask himself this: Might it be better for the Twins, as an organization, to keep Santana through next year and then settle for two compensation draft picks when he leaves as a free agent? Because the cost to the organization, in fan-base goodwill and ticket-sale backlash, might be greater than the difference in the value of a Santana trade now and the value of two draft picks. The safer play for the Twins, in how they are perceived by Twins fans, might be to let Santana walk away on his own, rather than put him on a platter and hand him to the Yankees or the Red Sox or some big-market team.

    Given all of those factors that have to be considered, it may be very hard for Smith to agree to a trade, and for any interested team to finish the deal. We’ll see.

    The Twins are determined to not let Santana go free, writes Joe Christensen  meaning that a trade could be in order.

  120. YankeesLuv November 24th, 2007 at 10:55 am

    Hockey is great. You should go to a Rangers game, maybe one against the Islanders. At home after a Rangers win, the team goes to center ice and salutes the crowd, very cool. If Lundqvist gets a shutout, he gives his stick to a lucky fan in the crowd.

  121. rainbowbass November 24th, 2007 at 11:12 am

    Never mention the word hockey on this site again. I don’t know exactly what it is but I know it is obscene and offensive to the non-white world population.

  122. DHC November 24th, 2007 at 11:35 am

    Are there no hockey blogs?

    If they exist, can someone here give links, so those who are tired of talking off-season baseball can go there?

  123. LathamJoe November 24th, 2007 at 11:46 am

    Mike NYY:
    I read your Posts with anticipated interest..until you started throwing around the term “WARP”. I immediately remembered that Star Trek was now showing on the TV Land Channel and left to watch Capt. Kirk and the Crew battle the
    Romulans or some other terror that threatens their existence!

    Seriously though, I agree with many of your points, but I believe that the Yankees must make a pretty fair offer for Santana or they may lose him to our East Division rivals.
    If the Mets empty their farm system to acquire Johan – so be it, the Yanks will face him maybe twice during the regular season and potentially 3 more times in the WS.
    The twins cannot afford Santana and will trade him, either this winter or by the Trading Deadline. Allowing the Red Sox to acquire him would be devastating for the Yank’s AL title hopes.

    I’ve said it before that Cano is too valuable to offer for anybody – he’s a future No. 3 hitter and a perennial All Star, who’ll only get better with more plate discipline. Hughes if a future ace, but we have a number of potential aces that are righthanded – we need a lefty!

    Santana is one of the dominant pitchers in MLB and he’s still only 28. If Yankee ownership was willing to pay a salary of $28 Million per year for a 45-year old former ace on the downside of his illustrious career – $25 Million for 6 years of Santana makes sense.

    Perhaps they offer Hughes, Tabata, & Betances and see what shakes out.

  124. Old Yanks Fan November 24th, 2007 at 11:46 am

    Getting a ‘quality vet’ like Santana by trading quality prospects/young players is what the Yanks have done since 2000, and it hasn’t worked. Granted, Santana is better then anyone we’ve looked at, butCano, Tabata, Hughes, et al are also better and part of our teams future. Cano might wasily be our teams BEST hitter short of ARod.

    I would suggest comparing WinShares and dollars.
    Santana would GIVE us X winshares. Losing Cano, Melky and whoever else will LOSE Y winshares.

    Now look at the additional $$$ to replace Cano and Melky. Add/Subtract the winshare AND $$$ difference between Cano/Melky and their replacements.

    I think you will find that Santana’s winshares cost us a fortune. Plus, while the team MIGHT be better for a few years, it might be a lot worse for 2010 and beyond.

    ARod cost us $27m/yr BUT NO PLAYERS.
    Santana will cost $22m/yr +/- and 3 QUALITY PLAYERS.
    As good as Santana is, I don’t think the numbers work.
    I would rather wait for a Santana/Bedard/Harden/Haren type to become a FA, where the cost is $$$ ONLY, no players.

  125. LathamJoe November 24th, 2007 at 11:48 am

    rainbow bass:
    My son is a big Primus Fan. How ’bout you?

  126. Old Yanks Fan November 24th, 2007 at 12:03 pm

    LathamJoe -
    While Santana will be expensive, it is NOT the DOLLLARS that are the problem, but the young, cheap talent we will have to give up. Getting Clemens was a desparation move, because of early pitching injuries. Comparing ONE year at $18m to 6 years at $135m is NOT a fair comparision.

    It is one thing to trade prospects who MIGHT make MLB. Cano, Melky and Hughes are already PLUS MLB players, IPK is very close, and Horne and Tabata are very highly touted.

    Look who the Sox gave up for Beckett. If they have Hanibel and Hanley and a slightly better then average pitcher instead of Beckett, they still win this year, and are better positioned for the future.

  127. 56Bomber November 24th, 2007 at 12:13 pm

    I’m surprised that nobody mentions Wilson Betemit as part of a package for Santana. The Twins can not afford to give Nick Punto another 108 games at 3rd base with 1 HR, 25 RBIs and a .210 BA. The Twins biggest needs are now CF and 3B. Melky and Betemit (as part of a package) would give them young everyday starters (somewhat proven) with potential upside. Having said this, I think the Yankees will not offer the type of package that Minaya and the Mets will almost have to do. Their (the Mets) end of season stupor seems to have continued into the offseason with no significant moves being made. Minaya will be looking to save his job by shaking things up with a big move – IMHO.

  128. Buddy Biancalana November 24th, 2007 at 12:17 pm

    56Bomber

    I totally agree that Minaya will overpay in trade value in addition to a huge payday for Johan, & why wouldn’t he at this point, what does he have to lose.

  129. 56Bomber November 24th, 2007 at 12:27 pm

    Let the Mets overpay for Santana. I’m sure that even the Red Sox won’t give up a ton of young talent for Santana – who has not shown that he can pitch well in Fenway. We’re better off looking at someone like Haren who will come cheaper or just sticking with our kids at least thru July.

  130. Boston Dave November 24th, 2007 at 12:30 pm

    with all due respect, the yankees havent traded for proven aces in their prime, they have been getting guys on their last legs. santana is entering what is believed to be a pitchers prime. he’s not 35+ (like unit, kevin brown, etc). he is worth giving up hughes and cano. i would absolutely hate to see cano go, but is there anybody here who would rather have hitting than pitching?

    in case this hasnt been mentioned yet – article in newsday: http://www.newsday.com/sports/.....3284.story

  131. Boston Dave November 24th, 2007 at 12:35 pm

    would you rather give up hughes and cano to get santana, or watch the red sox get him for lester and ellsbury and watch beckett and papelbon celebrating with 3 or 4 world series over the next 6-8 years? get santana and watch the yankees return to dominance. dont compare santana to randy johnson and kevin brown. santana is in his prime and worth every penny.

  132. Boston Dave November 24th, 2007 at 12:38 pm

    “Santana – who has not shown that he can pitch well in Fenway”

    Santana has only thrown 5 innings (only 2ER) at Fenway the last 3 seasons. Nice try though…

  133. Buddy Biancalana November 24th, 2007 at 12:40 pm

    I’d love to get Haren. The Red Sox won’t give up Ellsbury, they will be in it for a lesser package as will the Yanks.

  134. Boston Dave November 24th, 2007 at 12:40 pm

    Old Yanks Fan – with all due respect, the Red Sox would NOT have come close to winning the world series this year with Hanley instead of Beckett. That is bordering on insane.

  135. Boston Dave November 24th, 2007 at 12:44 pm

    Buddy, the Sox know it will take Ellsbury plus Lester or Buchholz. They wont bother making a serious offer that doesnt include him. That said, I think it would be a steal if they got Santana for only Ellsbury and Lester and if they do, I will have to leave the country. I cant handle a Sox dynasty.

  136. LathamJoe November 24th, 2007 at 12:50 pm

    Old Yanks fan:

    I agree that the Dollars is not the main issue. My only reference to Clemens’ Money was that the Yankees would consider a long term/high dollar commitment for acquiring the best lefthander is baseball. In fact if Cashman did offer the package I suggested, I feel confident he would insist upon a 6-year commitment from Santana or the trade would not be made.

    I mentioned that Cano should not be offered. But Melky?
    If the Twins were foolish enough to take Melky instead of Tabata, that’s even better!
    I love Melky and I think defensively he makes the Yankee outfield better, but he has no where near the MLB ceiling of Jose’ Tabata.

    Right now, the Yankee Organization’s strength is their young righthand pitchers – the closest lefty prospect to MLB ready is Chase Wright – and he’s No. 4-5 at best.

    Phil Hughes MAY be an ace some day. Betances is so young he could go either way in the next 3-4 years. At 28, Johan Santana IS an ace.

    I doubt if the Sawx will offer Ellsbury, but they will make an attractive deal. NY has enough talent to trump the red Sox offer – without emptying their farm system.

  137. Alan November 24th, 2007 at 12:56 pm

    Boston will mortgage their future more so than the Yankees would in a Santana deal. While it would appear that a rotation of Beckett, Santana, Matsuzaka, Schilling, and Wakefield are strong on paper, Buchholz and Lester will be pitching for the Twins when the 42 year old Schilling and Wakefield are gone after ’08 and a farm system of no valid replacements for them.

  138. Buddy Biancalana November 24th, 2007 at 12:57 pm

    Boston Dave-

    Check out what Dan Graziano has to say a little ways down on http://www.mlbtraderumors.com I think it will cost less in terms of prospects to acquire Johan. Melky, Tabata, Horne & or Marquez could be what it takes to get him plus $150M ti sign him.

  139. 56Bomber November 24th, 2007 at 1:08 pm

    “Santana has only thrown 5 innings (only 2ER) at Fenway the last 3 seasons. Nice try though…”

    You missed the point Boston Dave – which was that Santana has not pitched enough there to know whether his numbers would stand up there (good or bad). Check out my post at 9:41 which raises the question about whether or not he (or any lefty) would want to pitch there for the next 6-7 years.

  140. LathamJoe November 24th, 2007 at 1:11 pm

    Buddy:
    Thanks for sharing the Graziano article. It makes for interesting discussion, but I just think tha Twins GM Smith would insist on Hughes over Horne. Losing Santana will not sit well with the fans and I believe he would want someone like Hughes who’s already shown MLB promise, rather than gamble on Horne.

  141. 56Bomber November 24th, 2007 at 1:13 pm

    Alan – agreed.

    The Red Sox are not nearly as deep in pitching prospects as the Yankees and would be facing an aging back end of their rotation – along with an aging 3-4-5 middle lineup (Ortiz-Manny-Lowell).

    I just don’t see them going hard after Santana.

  142. Matt November 24th, 2007 at 1:19 pm

    Unless C.C. Sabathia signs a new deal this year with Cleveland, Johan Santana will have no direct lefthanded competition in the next free agent class and his agent (Peter Greenberg) is fully aware of what an open market will mean in dollars for his client and himself.
    If a trade proposal satisfies the Twins, Santana and Greenberg can nix the deal if the team is not desirable for the pitcher to go to and a long term contract agreement can’t be reached.

  143. Buddy Biancalana November 24th, 2007 at 1:20 pm

    I was just reading all the comments on the Graziano article, they are from a bunch of Red Sox fans that think since Graziano is a Yankees beat writer he is totally biased. I think Mr. Abraham would strongly disagree with that.

  144. LathamJoe November 24th, 2007 at 1:31 pm

    Greenberg also has a pretty good idea of what the market will be for Santana. If Teams like the Yankees, Red Sox,or Mets, are willing to pony up 6 years/$150 Mil, Santana and Greenberg also has to weigh the risk of injury or poor performance in 2008 against securing his financial future right now.

  145. Vince November 24th, 2007 at 1:51 pm

    If Hank Steinbrenner can stand up to the toughest known agent of all and pay an everyday player big dollars to put fannies in seats, he certainly will stand up to a lesser agent with a client that pitches just every 5 days. The same principle will apply to the Minnesota Twins in outrageous demands of players for that same pitcher.
    George wanted what he wanted and when he wanted it with price or players being of little concern. The son by all accounts, wants what he wants within reason and sanity.

  146. yanks61 November 24th, 2007 at 2:51 pm

    Here’s another key point to this discussion; where would Santana most like to go?!

    I’ve just read that when he pitched in the Stadium on July 4, he was just tickled to death to be there. Even Gardenhire actually said that ‘unfortunately Santana loves this big stage.’

    As everyone’s been saying, he might very well say to the Twins, ‘”this is where I want to go. See what kind of deal you can get and let me talk to them.” If he’s really that enamoured with pitching in Yankee Stadium (or Yankee Stadium II), on the big New York stage, then it will just behoove the Twins to find a way to make that happen, or Santana walks away a FA at the end of 2008 and the Twins get nada. In that case, the Yankees can make a ‘sane’ deal rather than join a mad frenzy of bidding in young players.

    Again, I think Matt’s got it right, that he and Greenberg know he can make a killing as a FA, but if a team he already wants to go should make him that offer he expects right up front, then he needn’t wait. Lathom Joe, you make an excellent point, but we do have to remember that pro atheletes at Santana’s skill level and level of accomplishment are understandably quite ‘full of themselves’ and probably not very afraid of the risk, though who knows; ‘a bird in the hand…’

  147. Charley Parbs January 8th, 2010 at 8:44 pm

    I was curious if anyone has tried this Sports Handicapping Service? I found his video on Youtube and it turns out the service is sold through clickbank which means it comes with a 60 day money back guarantee. Was wondering what peoples thoughts were.


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