Little Stein: Preliminary talks for Santana on
-
- November
- 26
The Yankees are talking to the Twins about Johan Santana. Team spokesman and senior vice president Hank Steinbrenner confirmed it tonight.
“I don’t want to get into that at this point, as far as what they want, what we’re willing to give and all that,” he told the AP. “It’s preliminary right now.”
So the Twins will consider making a trade?
“Oh, yeah,” Hank said.
Steinbrenner also said that Brian Cashman (remember him?) is trying to improve the bullpen.
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Knew you would be on that Pete. That AP report hit fox and ESPN just a few minutes ago.
Good news…just a little nervous about what they might want as a trade.
Finally, someone mentions the bullpen…
Having Johan in pinstripes would be amazing (heavenly)!
Hank loves to squawk, doesn’t he?
I hope. . . . i hope i won’t be upset with the trade (if they make one) even the greatest thing in the world is not always worth everything. hope Andy comes back .
Not sure what this means if anything. I am sure that if they called Omar Minya he would say the same thing that they have begun talking to the Twins as are the Dodgers, Sox and probably 4 or so other teams.
after all the posts today, i am 50/50 on this trade. maybe i have been drinking the yankee cool-aid for too long thinking that our prospects have such a great upside. but johan will not come cheap at all.
between the prospects and the money we’d have to pay, it is tough for me to swallow right now.
but i guess it isn’t my money, and we do need an ace…
i’m basically arguing with myself right now. probably why i’m 50/50 on the whole thing
Why Hank is belittled with the derisive nickname “Little Stein” on this blog is beyond my comprehension. Hank isn’t some spoiled rich college kid who’s taking over his father’s team because he’s bored. He’s been involved with the team—and the team’s decisions—for many years. He is a baseball man. As much or more than most owners/presidents. This suggestion that he’s playing his father like an acting role is just dumb, and Yankee fans should be happy he’s taking over his father’s position; he allows Cash to do his job and he brings a logical, cogent plan to the table. Why not try a little more respect? But then again, that’s not your style, Pete.
With Chamberlain going into the starting rotation doesn’t that leave a bullpen with lots of questions last year even more questionable right now?
I’d like Santana, but I hope it won’t be too expensive. Obviously you have to give up something, but I’d make Cano and Joba untouchables right off the bat, and I’d be extremely, extremely reluctant to include Hughes as well (which might bring the trade to a screaching halt). I’d rather keep Kennedy but if Cano, Hughes, and Joba stay, that’s probably a virtual impossibility, so I’d be alright with him going in a Santana deal. Melky’s probably a necessity since the Twins need a cheap centerfielder, and I imagine at least one out of Jackson and Tabata are necessary too. Plus, probably an Alan Horne or someone like that. Kennedy, Melky, Jackson or Tabata, and Horne is a deal I’d make, although someone else may offer better.
So I’m writing a masters thesis on the nonfiction novel. Not baseball related.
I just included a sports analogy.
I rule.
i agree with ray. the yanks need big-time bullpen changes
Don’t get to excited….I’m sure there are 18 other teams in peliminary talks with the twins as well.
Andrea….we already knew that you rule! Good luck with the thesis.
Look, if it doesn’t harm their bargaining position, I have no quibble with Hank’s effort to make the Yankees more transparent.
However, I’m not sure it’s entirely innocuous. What if the disclosure causes other teams to increase their offer just to raise the ante for the Yankees. I’d prefer Hank lie to the public to conceal the Yankees motives and then soldier on behind the scenes.
Andrea, I know you’ll mention Truman Capote’s In Cold Blood and Mailer’s The Executioner’s Song but don’t overlook Michael Herr’s Dispatches.
I am also 50/50 on this trade but not because of money since I am sure the NYY have qualified accountants that know what they can’t and could afford. I am more worried about what we will be giving up in talent. As to the bullpen question I am more and more convinced that the solution will be coming from inside the Yankee farm system rather then the FA market. Ask me who I have more confidence in when looking at the available free agents as compared to our prospects (Ohlendorf, Veras, Melancon) and the prospects win.
see, go get em’ Hank, see…
Hank Rules!!!
Kennedy, Horne, Melky, and Tabata for Santana please!!!
Hughes sort of started the renaissance of the Yankees farm system when he was drafted in 2004, I’d be sad to see the poster boy for the whole redevelopment process go.
ray-
Just out of curiosity, do you have Yankee-envy? I know you are a Sox fan, a nice one at that, but are you leaking insider info to Theo?
I will be very upset if Phil, Joba, Cano or Action is traded.
eric
November 26th, 2007 at 9:16 pm
Hughes sort of started the renaissance of the Yankees farm system when he was drafted in 2004, I’d be sad to see the poster boy for the whole redevelopment process go.
Completely agree. I was thinking the same sad thing earlier.
Hank needs to learn when the right time to speak is. It isn’t when he wants to hear his own voice, again.
Sometimes, speaking can be bad for the team. In this case, it is. Now the scrutiny is going to be on. Everyone will be asking everyday what the negotiations are doing, and it’s going to create a huge issue for the team. He should really talk to Zillo about talking to the media, because he’s talking way too much, and I bet its a wake-up call for everyone else… now they know the Yanks are in it, which maybe they won’t know otherwise.
I appreciate him talking publically, and keeping the fans in the loop, but it’s not always a good thing. Besides, he shouldn’t be the one doing this; it should be Cashman running the show.
I’ve heard that we are looking into bringing back Bob Wickman… no joke.
Jay:
Dry those tears. Steinbrenner was called “Big Stein” on Seinfeld. So clearly Hank is “Little Stein.” If an innocent pop-culture reference is going to make you so upset, then this isn’t the blog for you.
Hal Steinbrenner is known as “Prince Hal” around the front office. Is that offensive to you, too?
Meanwhile, you wrote:
“He’s been involved with the team — and the team’s decisions — for many years. He is a baseball man. As much or more than most owners/presidents.”
OK, well that is just not true. As late as 2006 he had no title with the team whatsoever. He had a job briefly in the 1980s and quickly determined he had no desire to work for his father and went and managed the family stables. From roughly 1990-2006 he had almost nothing to do with the team by his own choice. He has said as much in interviews. In fact, George tried to make him managing partner when he was suspended and Hank refused. Refused. So your theory is simply nonsense.
As of August, I couldn’t find one player who had ever met him.
I like Hank, he’s good for the writers. He seems to be doing a nice job the last few weeks. But he’s hardly some experienced baseball man.
As for most team owners/presidents, I can name 20 off the top of my head who have been involved in the game longer than he has been. Lucchino, MacPhail, Wilpons, Ilitch, Reinsdorf, Moores, etc.
That’s no crime. Hank and Hal had to get involved when Swindal was ousted and they have.
Little Stein likes to talk and good for him. Chatty executives make for good stories
I would trade Hughes, Melky, and Kennedy for Santana…we need an ace…as long as we can sign Santana to a large extension, can’t take the chance of him being a free agent…with Santana, Pettite would come back, then Wang perfect as a #3, Joba #4 or to the bullpen, and Mussina and others for # 5..then sign Andruw Jones to play CF….we would need a CF and Jones is great defensively and will rebound offensively…..I like that alot…we would finally have our ace and still keep Jaba….
Santana would certainly upgrade the pitching to a whole new level and put the Yankees into a prime position to take on the Red Sox pitching rotation. Yankees need pitching to contend as we have seen offense alone will not do it.
If the bullpen get upgraded then the Yankees have put together a unstoppable team. There needs to be reliable guys that get outs in the bullpen. You need the 8th, and 9th inning guys to keep you in the game. As the bullpen stands now, it’s sub par and a risk.
If Hughes is traded for Santana then so be it. Santana is proven and a winner. Hughes still has to prove himself and really still unknown. He doesn’t have enough major league innings under his belt to prove his worth. Not that he is a bad pitcher, just not at the caliber of Santana so getting a Santana for Hughes would be kinda nice. Santana is only 28.
Throw in Melky and Tabata and be happy that’s all he cost.
Yankees have enough pitching down in the minors to make up for the lose of Hughes.
I can’t wait to see Santana in pinstipes.
The final year of the old Yankee Stadium is coming up and Hank Steinbrenner and Brian Cashman will go the gamut to give Joe Girardi the necessary needs to see the Stadium go out in grand style. Take it to the bank.
Please – guys this is a blog. PA is not disrespecting HS and has not really said anything negative about him at all. Cut him some slack.
How serious can a post be when an owner says, “Oh yeah” when asked if a team is willing to trade the best pitcher in the game?
He clearly is not very experienced in terms of dealing with the press.
Having said that, he seems to be allowing Cash to do the right thing and is taking some of the heat off of Cash in terms of talking to the press. From a Yankee performance standpoint, talking to the press is not an optimal use of Cash’s time.
So lighten up. Hank is always good for a great quote but he is hardly an experienced owner at this point.
The Kennedy, Horne, Melky and Tabata deal is the one that makes the most sense for the Yankees and IMO is not a bogus deal. Yes there may be a ton of other teams with as good, if not better offers, but the one thing that everyone seems to forget is that he has full no trade clause, therefore he can dictate where he goes. As such, if he wants to go to the Yankees, or anyone else, all he has to do is let Minny know that and they will make the best offer they can with that team or not get anything but draft picks when leaves via FA.
I would give up Cano before I give up Hughes, I think he is going to be something special.
Buddy,
I will plead the fifth amendment otherwise my substantial payments from Theo will stop! Seriously, I have not been on all the baseball blogs out there but I have not found one that is nearly as active as this one. Some of the regular contributors on here even have their own blogs like Rebecca and I respect the high level of baseball knowledge exhibited here.
That is all too true… but I think a reasonable trade can be worked out over time…if not you just beg Andy to come back, and if that doesn’t work, go after Bedard or let the kids start, we can get Hughes Joba Kennedy Igawa Karstens and Rasner to fill the 3 spots behind Wang and Moose if it comes to that(and if thats the worst case scenario, I’ll roll the dice with it because of our offense)
“I’ve heard that we are looking into bringing back Bob Wickman… no joke.”
Why not bring back Bob Shirley in that case…
ray: thanks! I think I’m done with it actually. Scary. Just have to see if my advisor and department agree. I’m just having trouble citing ONE thing.
Kill Schill: of course I mentioned In Cold Blood. It would be irresponsible not to. I chose not to include The Executioner’s Song because I wanted to write about very contemporary works: 2000 and after. I used Capote as the starting point as he “invented” the nonfiction novel, and then used a lot of what he said to talk about books published in 2000, 2003 and 2005. Mailer is good stuff though. I’m not sure I’ve heard of that other book though. I’ll have to look into it. The Executioner’s Song is annoying though. I read that on the subway. It’s HUGE. That’s one of those I’d rather it came in two volumes, just so it would have been physically easier to read.
Ok I’m done. Back to baseball!
Getting Santana will only reduce the time available for the young pitchers to develop.
I am looking forward to seeing which of the young guys rise to the top.
unless little Stein can work some magic and not include Hughes or Chamberlain, I feel like we will be giving up way to much.
You are giving up a 21 year old for roughly $400,000 a year, who you control for the next 5 years I believe. On top of that, you would have to include Melky and possibly Austin Jackson. All of a sudden this trade is costing the Yankees $50 mill a year. $20 for Johan, probably about $15 for a CF + luxury tax. So instead of having 3 players all under 23 for a combined $1.2 million or so, you are breaking the bank (and your future) for one player.. NOT WORTH IT
should be untouchable.
I’d give up anyone else on the Yankees and in the farm over Hughes.
I hope they stand pat. It’s going to take way too much to bring Santana in terms of talent and money.
ARod’s contract was insane enough, the Yanks don’t need to add Santana’s to it as well. Let the Mets gut their farm for him.
just feel like locking up Santana into a long term deal means we would have $55MM locked into two players (one who only plays one of five days) and then have signed a bunch of old guys (Posada & Rivera) will have given up our youngsters and then be asking ourselves why we keep losing to the Sox and other teams like that who don’t keep making the same mistake we do. It seems like we get our eye on the ball and a big name comes up and bang we take our eye off it. Keep the mix of young players and Vets get some middle relief and let it rip
BTW menat $55MM/year on 2 players
Problem solved, perhaps they plan to put Santana in the bullpen.
If we have to give up more than one of the following: Hughes, Kennedy, Cano, than its not worth it. and i don’t really like the idea of trading Cano or hughes…I’d part with kennedy if it got me Johan even though he is gonna be just as good as Joba and Hughes, I don’t wanna sell Ian short but he just makes the most sense…
Pete- I think you’ll agree with me on this, the Yankees are best when they do deals in silence.
Most of the great coup’s the Yankees have made both trade and fa wise were done in near silence.
*Cone in 96 was a deal that didnt play out in the media until the end
*clemens in 99 happened nearly overnight
*justice in ‘00
*arod in 04
*damon in 05
*abreu in 06
All these deals were done under relative silence, with few leaks. One of the great gaffes of the Red Sox new management was letting the A-Rod saga play out over weeks and months in the media.
Personally, I think it would be smarter if Little Stein kept a lower profile when discussing trades. Playing this out in public dosnt end well (see Nomar vs. Millar, December 2003).
I can picture Andruw Jones in CF for the next 6 years, as much as I love Melky…
The Yankees will do just as well to get Whitey Ford signed and take his rightful place on the roster. It would be so easy, a caveman could do it.
I’m not ready to press the panic button on the bullpen just yet, but it definitely needs some strengthening. Mo is locked into the closer role, and I still think Joba sets up in 2008. That leaves the 6th-7th innings for Edwar Ramirez, Jose Veras, Krazy Kyle, Scott Ohlendorf….yes, needs to be strengthened, but not starting from scratch. Gotta add a lefty not named Igawa.
Santana or Haren at the top of the rotation is definitely needed, otherwise this team pounds its way to 94-95 wins next years and bows out in Round One again….
Question for those in the know the otehr night they were running a Yankees Classic from 1995 where O’Niel had 3 or 4 HR. One of the pitchers who gave up 2 HR was Mike Harkey anyone know if this is the same Mike Harkey who is our new BP coach. Also speaking of Wickman he pitched fopr the Yanks that night looked completely differnt mostly as he had hair lol
Vader,
Just to clarify, Santana does not have a full no trade clause. His contract allows him no trade authority for 2007 because he finished in the top three for the cy young award last year. He did not finish in the top three this year, which means the Twins can wait and trade him to any team they choose once the 2008 season starts.
That said, I do think they will trade him this off season since they need a center fielder. Regardless of his no trade, the teams that 1-have the talent to trade, 2-have the finances to sign him to a long term deal, and 3- will be agreeable to Santana waiving his no trade, are limited. Yanks, Red Sox, and maybe the Dodgers or Mets. That’s about it.
Crazy story! http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3128108
He was sitting at a light and now he is seriously injured.
Andruw Jones is a Borass client, he will want too much money, and he just had a horrible year.
For Satana, why not just give the Twins Clippard + $200 Million + 0 top propects?
I don’t like the trades being discussed. If the Yanks give up players who would otherwise be on the team, then their replacements are apt to be both weaker and a lot more expensive. With $25m for Santana and another $10 – $15m to replace, say, Melky and Kennedy, and luxury tax on top, the cost is enormous. It would limit the Yanks ability to sign or trade for other players once the season begins or in subsequent seasons.
I’m still unhappy at the Yanks unwillingness to sign Carlos Beltran. I want them to be in a position to sign the next similar opportunity.
Minnesota only owns him for 1 more year, so they don’t deserve
“Little Stein” is saying the Yanks are involved in prelim discussions… does that mean no one else is or just that no one else is talking about it?
I would have to assume the Twins are talking to all interested parties to get the best deal avilable. It makes no sense that the Twins would talk only to the Yankees.
I miss the stealth Yankees. The ones who made deals before they talked about them.
I think Goose has a good chance of getting in this year!
“Mo is locked into the closer role, and I still think Joba sets up in 2008.”
It has been stated by the Yankees that Joba will be in the starting rotation and that would leave a significant hole in the bullpen.
RSM – no – Santana will have a limited (12 team) no trade for 2008. But if the season starts, you can bet there will be no extension from Santana – so for the most part, teams will be dumping the best prospects for a 1 year (or less) rental with FA around the corner for Santana.
The Angels (if they don’t trade for Miguel Cabrera) also fits the Twins’ needs.
Let’s hope Cash still has that Post-It on his PC or Mac or TI-49 saying Joba, Hughes, and Robbie are untouchable.
I’d still rather build our next dynasty the right way, and the way we did it for 1996-2000. For those not around back then, it wasn’t through trading young talent.
Okay, guys, I have to say something:
The reason the stealth Yankees don’t exist any more is more because of blogs and accessibility of the internet than any other reason.
It would be next to impossible for the Yankees to do a move and us not know or at least have a clue about it ahead of time.
I had no idea David Justice was old enough for Hall of Fame already
Me either! But like I said it appears to be a very weak class, I think this will be the year Goose gets in.
Rebecca
Clemens return was stealth this year. Even A-Rod’s negotiations were kept under wraps for a week before things started leaking. Cash is the master of stealth, Hank is not.
According to SI’s Jon Heyman, the Yankees would have to part with Phil Hughes or at least Ian Kennedy plus Melky Cabrera (the Yankees say Joba Chamberlain and Robinson Cano are off-limits, even for Santana)
The A’s, of course, will try for the Yankees’ vaunted prospects (Chamberlain, Hughes and Kennedyl. New York’s next-tier group of pitchers—Alan Horne and Daniel McCutchen—and outfielder Jose Tabata is a more palatable option for the Yankees.
“I had no idea David Justice was old enough for Hall of Fame already”
That 5 years did go quickly, didn’t it?
Improve the pen from within, and don’t re-sign Vizcaino.
I had no idea David Justice was old enough for Hall of Fame already
A player merely has to be retired for five years.
pat: Good point about Clemens…
Four for Santana is too many for me. I don’t want to have to replace three players aside from the one Santana is replacing.
Eat more garlic
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/15/unlocking-the-benefits-of-garlic/?WT.mc_id=HL-D-I-NYT-MOD-MOD-M004-ROS-1107-HDR&WT.mc_ev=click&mkt=HL-D-I-NYT-MOD-MOD-M003-ROS-1107-HDR
I’d bet the house this is the only Yankee blog in the world with a Bob Shirley reference in it.
Shant but you have to give up talent to get talent. That would be alot better than Cano Hughes, and Action.
Is what “Little Stien” said tampering?
Yeah—good point Jennifer, who replaces Melky? Aaron Rowand is a bad signing, and I think the same of Andruw Jones. No more albatross contracts to strangle Cashman and future GMS.
Who would be a good stopgap for a year or two until Action Jackson is ready? Can’t have Damon and his noodle arm, or Matsui and his bad knees out in the vast CF at YS…
Maybe Mike Cameron for a year? He’d still miss the first 25 games
Doper…
Any ideas? Bobby Kielty platoon? Trade for a Griffey Jr (what does he have left, one year or so on that contract of his?) or someone with one year left on a backloaded contract?
I love it how you think Santana can be had more quantity as opposed to quality. The Twins can negotiate with 5 teams – IPK, Melky, and Tabata is not going to be enough.
The Twins have a new GM – he can’t get 70 cents on the dollar for the game’s best pitcher… if the Yankees don’t part with Joba, Hughes, or Cano – this deal doesn’t happen.
I’d love to see an IPK/Cabrera + 1 or 2 other lesser prospects… but the Twins have to take a Joba or Hughes or Cano back… remember they have to sell this deal to their fans too
Hey Peter
You really need to hide the ‘Did The Yankees Do The Right Thing By Bringing Alex Rodriguez Back’ Poll off the web site.
We all know how much Alex pays attention to this type of media.
He’s bound to start sulking through the rest of his new contract wondering why we all didn’t want him back.
”..why god …. WHYYYYYyyyyyy?!!”
Shamus:
Rumor has it Jackson will be ready by the end of this season…as long as Melky, Johnny and Bobby stay healthy it shouldn’t be an issue.
“I’d still rather build our next dynasty the right way, and the way we did it for 1996-2000. For those not around back then, it wasn’t through trading young talent.”
this is slightly revisionist.
there were many players obtained through trading young talent, they just happened to all be very good trades for the Yankees:
Cone
Knoblaugh
Tino
Nelson
Irabu
Clemens
Justice
Hank keep quiet for a couple of days, or atleast until this Santana thing is finished. Other teams might not like the fact that when they are dealing with the Yanks Hank tells the media everything. If a Santana deal is possible, with possible I mean not giving up Joba or Cano I think the Yanks will go full force in trying to make it happen. Cash has to try really hard not to give up Hughes but who knows what Hug/Joba/Kenn will be in the future and we already know what Santana is. If I was Cash I would try and start a package with Kennedy, Melky and another lower prospect. If they want Jackson in the deal then they get Kennedy and not Hughes. If they get Hughes then they get lesser prospects in the deal. Boston got Beckett who was 2 year younger and only makes around $10m a year for 3 years for only Ramirez, and a decent pitcher. Yanks have to give Santana $150m so the Twins cant expect the whole farm for him. Outfields are extremely easy to get in as a free agent pitchers are much harder. I would rather give up the outfielders and keep the pitchers.
I guess we don’t have to worry about who would replace Melky than.
Seriously though, how far is Action from hitting the majors?
Miller you making calls tonight? Should I stay online to see the windup?
I guess this is wishful thinking on my part.
I am nervous that the Yankees will deal Hughes or Cano. 
I could deal with Gardner and Melky, or Melky and Jackson but then they get 1 pitcher not both. Horne should not be in a package with another pitcher, that is way too much!! I would think any one of these packages could get Haren from the A’s. If the Twins ask for Hughes then I could call the A’s right away and see if I can get Haren for Kennedy, Melky, and __ before I trade Hughes. Plus Haren would be $130m cheaper.
I know it’s just 5 years—it doesn’t feel like David Justice has been retired for 5 years.
(swift change of subject back to something that is NOT someone making up stories)
“Boston got Beckett who was 2 year younger and only makes around $10m a year for 3 years for only Ramirez, and a decent pitcher. ”
“only” Ramirez? he is one of the best players in the NL.
also, remember the Sox had to take back Lowell.
that seems funny now, but at the time, Lowell was considered dead weight.
Nah Jennifer go to bed.
If i do find anything out, this blog will be the first to know. However, if i do hear anything it will be full of “grain of salt” warnings.
Okay thanks Miller, although Bozo came back to gloat that he got us. I suspect his parents left the computer unattended.
I could deal with Gardner and Melky, or Melky and Jackson but then they get 1 pitcher not both. Horne should not be in a package with another pitcher, that is way too much!! I would think any one of these packages could get Haren from the A’s. If the Twins ask for Hughes then I could call the A’s right away and see if I can get Haren for Kennedy, Melky, and __ before I trade Hughes. Plus Haren would be $130m cheaper.
I agree completely that we should measure what can get us Haren vs what can get us Santana, but while Haren is cheaper, he is not $130 million cheaper.
hmmm, what I was saying is Ramirez is really good but they only gave up 1 big prospect and when people mention Hughes, Cabrera, and then also 2 more prospects that is way too much. Hughes would be the big chip in the deal no reason to add so much more to him.
Miller: Are you an insider I do not know about?
ahhh this is kind of freaking me out….im so torn…...
Jennifer – HIP HIP JORGE!
November 26th, 2007 at 10:23 pm
I guess we don’t have to worry about who would replace Melky than.
Seriously though, how far is Action from hitting the majors?
_
Jackson strts 2008 at Trenton, and if he progresses as fast as he did this year, he should be in Scranton by July and ready for a September call-up. That’s a lot of assumption for a 20 year old, but, this kid is going to be exceptional.
I hope Chuck gets into the HOF!
IPK, Melky, Tabata for Johan.
Then, sign Aaron Rowand for 3-4 years, until Austin Jackson is ready. Then we are solid. A hard nosed guy like Rowand would be perfect for the Yankees, always giving 100% effort.
this is the worst monday night football ever.
Rebecca:
No.
FIELD TURF LOL!!!
I like Rowand.
bphill, thats what people said about Bubba Crosby
I know I am showing my Red Sox roots in saying this but Jim Rice deserves to be in the Hall of Fame more than Chuck Knoblauch!
Miller:
Ok. =)
“Then, sign Aaron Rowand for 3-4 years, until Austin Jackson is ready. Then we are solid. A hard nosed guy like Rowand would be perfect for the Yankees, always giving 100% effort.”
It isn’t as simple as sitting Rowand down and telling him. Hey kid…here’s a three year deal. Now sign it. We’re the Yankees damnit!
He will probably receive an offer for many more years elsewhere.
Mike R., Haren is signed for $16m for the next 3 years. So even though it is only 3 years guaranteed that you would have him vs 7 with Santana it is still much much cheaper that you would have to owe the player when he is traded. If they can get Haren without giving up Hughes then I would rather have the 2 of them then just Santana.
“hmmm, what I was saying is Ramirez is really good but they only gave up 1 big prospect and when people mention Hughes, Cabrera, and then also 2 more prospects that is way too much.”
gotcha.
ray
November 26th, 2007 at 10:41 pm
I know I am showing my Red Sox roots in saying this but Jim Rice deserves to be in the Hall of Fame more than Chuck Knoblauch!
_
Nobody seriously thinks Knoblauch will get enough votes (5%) to even stay on the ballot after this year. Right now, Gossage and Blyleven should be the two who get in this year, and Tommy John will get more votes over the next couple of years. John and Jim Kaat will most likely get in through the Veteran’s Committee
“I know I am showing my Red Sox roots in saying this but Jim Rice deserves to be in the Hall of Fame more than Chuck Knoblauch!”
this is true.
but that doesn’t mean Rice deserves to get in.
Raines was so much better than Rice it’s not even funny, yet i don’t see him getting half the support.
Captain’s Corner. I agree with you completely. If we could get Haren or Santana for the same package of players I take Haren. I just don’t think it’s fair to compare the cost of a 7 contract to one that is only three year. In my opinion the actual savings would probably be around $50 million. Which is still a significant chunk of change.
Was Tim Raines the one that got sick after a while? Or am I confusing him with Tony Gwynn? (No, I don’t know why I confuse the two, I just know that I do)
These Santana talks are going to drag out probably for another 2 or 3 weeks. They just lost Hunter and they have to look good to there fans so they arent going to trade Santana a week later. Also the winter meetings will probably be where alot of the talks happen and then the Twins will wait and wait to get the best package. Also since Santana has a full no trade they will probably ask him if there is a place he definitely wont go to. So they dont waste there time going threw hours of talks with that team.
Rebecca, my folks said something came to me by mail I’m picking up my prize this week
Cashman has got to be turning over in his grave. Isn’t it borderline tampering outing discussions with other clubs? I mean GM’s are prohibited from talking about players on other teams aren’t they? I expect Hank to get fined.
Brandon: I hope you enjoy it! Let me know when you get it!
I will
Rebecca-
Are you thinking of Kirby Puckett?
good of little stein to let us know that the yankees are one of probably 15 teams throwing offers at the twins. just keep your mouth shut until something’s done, hank. so far this offseason, they’ve spent a ton of money treading water to keep the team as “good” as it was last year, and probably lost pettitte. until this team IMPROVES (and, sorry, a rotation including three rookies is not an improvement, as nobody knows how any of the three will pan out), just shut up and do your job.
Buddy—No.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C06E5DA1330F934A3575BC0A96F958260&n=Top/News/Health/Diseases,%20Conditions,%20and%20Health%20Topics/Lupus%20(Disease)
It was Raines…Lupus…
(cue the House MD jokes)
that Julio poster still has me pissed off
“Jeff NJ November 26th, 2007 at 10:57 pm
Cashman has got to be turning over in his grave.”
Is Cashman dead?
Pedro Abraham Deportes is reporting that “Julio” has been banned from the blog for being a jackass who makes stuff up.
I deleted his comments and reaction to them just so people didn’t get confused.
Sorry for the annoyance. Carry on.
This MNF game is fascinating if only to see what happens and whether anybody can score. I also had no idea that Omar Epps coached the Steelers.
Meanwhile, if you haven’t seen “The Departed” yet, it’s in rotation on HBO now. Do yourself a favor and Tivo it. Fantastic film.
gracias Pedro
Rebecca—Optimist Prime
November 26th, 2007 at 10:53 pm
Was Tim Raines the one that got sick after a while? Or am I confusing him with Tony Gwynn? (No, I don’t know why I confuse the two, I just know that I do)
_
Raines had a cocaine addiction during his Expos days, but, he beat that. Late in his career, he developed Lupus, almost died in 1999 and missed a year or so, but, came back to play for a bit, so he could play ball with Tim Jr.
Miller, no, but he sure seems like it lately.
“Raines was so much better than Rice it’s not even funny, yet i don’t see him getting half the support.’
Raines was an excellent player but to say he was so much better than Rice is stretching it some. Rice is the only player in baseball history to get at least 200 hits and 35 home runs 3 consecutive years. During the years 75-86 he had an average of .304, averaged 29 home runs, and 106 RBI’s.
Raines deserves to be in the Hall, but almost certainly won’t make it. He’s just not there in the traditional counting stats. But man, check his stats amyway. So…many…SBs…so few…CSs. At his peak he was just insane, and he made his long career finish a soft landing with that sweet OBP. Love the Rock! Bummer he won’t get in. At least Gossage should make it this year.
Kennedy, Melky + 1 prime lower-A baller for Santana would be highway robbery for the Yanks. Maybe it would be smarter to see them give up more if that’s what it would take, but it’s just too fun watching the kids develop.
How do you keep a Miami Dolphin out of your yard??
Answer>>>>>> Put up a field goal!
I do not understand why Hank would announce to ESPN they are talking to the Twins about Johan, that really doesn’t help Cash in negotiations.
“Raines was an excellent player but to say he was so much better than Rice is stretching it some.”
not really.
career WARP3:
Raines: 123.9
Rice: 83.2
40 wins. not even close.
Rice was an completely ordinary hitter outside of Fenway. he was a poor fielding outfielder with a career OPS+ of
he was grear for a few years, his best seasons were Hall-worthy, but they were far too few.
Jim Rice should be in the HOF.
ray
November 26th, 2007 at 11:11 pm
“Raines was so much better than Rice it’s not even funny, yet i don’t see him getting half the support.’
Raines was an excellent player but to say he was so much better than Rice is stretching it some. Rice is the only player in baseball history to get at least 200 hits and 35 home runs 3 consecutive years. During the years 75-86 he had an average of .304, averaged 29 home runs, and 106 RBI’s.
__
Rices numbers aren’t that much different than Rocky Colavito’s (other than average), who had a lot less at bats (about 1600 less).
I’m kind of hoping that it stays scoreless.
You know, the whole history thing.
However, I have to ask you bloggeroos the following:
Should the NFL eliminate the tie?
If they trad some prospects for santana,the Yankees always a “old men”team.They never give the prospects opportunity and time to play.They always sign and trad superstar from another team.They always spent big-money to sign unavailable players.Is it worth?Who care~It’s not my money.
i can’t type.
And pissed off the Boston media along the way.
Question:If yankees sign santana,do you want pettite back?
“hmmm
November 26th, 2007 at 11:19 pm
i can’t type.”
——————-
But you can quote like a demon!
damn Dolphin fans really want a QB next season
Sylvia: of course.
sylvia – yes. no matter who the yankees sign or trade for, i want pettitte back.
Jim Kaat should get in the HOF before Rice does. Sorry Ray.
Sylvia:
No question.
In fact, between Pettitte and Santana, I take Pettitte.
This is true, except for 3 years ago when they decided to let Cano and Wang be on the team to stay. Oh yes and then 2 years ago they decided to let Melky play every day. And then this past year they decided to call up the 20 year old Hughes in May although many people here thought it was too soon. They also called up a bunch of other kids from the farm the past few years. Which coincidentally happened around the time when Cash gained full control.
But you’re right, they never let the kids play.
I love the idea that Hank is some kind of bad-ass, new sheriff who’s gonna sweep the streets clean.
So far he’s offered Clueless Joe a retirement lap on our dime, brought back our free agents for approx. $100 M more (combined) than they would have gotten elswhere, emasculated our GM, and exposed himself as a chainsmoking, gasbag who’s word means nothing. And he’s been in charge for little more than a month!
Meanwhile, our chief rivals (the World Series champs) have said nothing and brought back their free agents at discounted prices.
Just wait until the games start and this blustering fool is giving daily opinions on who should be playing first, who should be batting fifth, and the proper pecking order in the bullpen. Girardi’s gonna look back on his time with Loria as the “good old days.”
if this post shows up twice, forgive me. it appears to have gotten lost somewhere:
pedro abraham desportes. well played, sir.
the departed is a great flick, but nicholson’s performance has not aged well for me. he’s great – he’s always great – but he seems so over-the-top in contrast to the other characters, with the exception of whalberg’s, i guess. i’m a huge nicholson fan, but something about his performance just sticks out for me.
and since nobody asked, here are the five best films i’ve seen this year, in order: no country for old men, before the devil knows you’re dead, american gangster, i’m not there, gone baby gone. honorable mentions: zodiac, joe strummer: the future is unwritten
“oh YEAHHHHH” -HS
damon
jeter
abreu
arod
cano
matsui
Jones for defense!!!! his bat w/ 30-40 hrs is a bonus, otherwise, it is gardner or damon with matsui playing the field; shelly to first, giambi to dh
posada
giambi
santana 20 wins
petitte/mussina 17 wins or 14
wang lets say 19 lol
hughes/kennedy 10 – 15 right now hughes probably has more value, but you never know
chamberlain 10 – 12 innings cap
people that say it is too cold for jones in ny are retarded
thats what we are looking at if hank is as excited as he sounds
it’s late; time to dream: crawford and teix in 09!
I’d be pissed if Action & Tabata we’re in this deal, I mean seriously how many over the hill OFs are we going to give crazy contracts to ?
”...if you haven’t seen “The Departed†yet, it’s in rotation on HBO now. Do yourself a favor and Tivo it. Fantastic film.”
Seen it 3 times – great writing…
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0407887/quotes
‘I don’t want to be a product of my environment. I want my environment to be a product of me.’
jones himself has said he hates playing in cold weather. have you been to new york when it’s cold? andruw will not enjoy it.
on top of that, he’s an arrogant jackass who struggled through the worst offensive season of his career because he patently refused to take any advice whatsoever from his hitting coach.
a real character guy, alright.
So far he’s offered Clueless Joe a retirement lap on our dime, brought back our free agents for approx. $100 M more (combined) than they would have gotten elswhere, emasculated our GM, and exposed himself as a chainsmoking, gasbag who’s word means nothing. And he’s been in charge for little more than a month!
This is all true except for a few things.
1. It’s well known that the Mets were willing to offer a 4 year contract to Posada so the Yankees were basically forced to do the same.
2. We don’t actually know what AROD what have gotten from other teams being that AROD started trying to get back on the Yankees before he was even able to negotiate with other teams. Not to mention that if Torii Hunter is worth 18Mil per then AROD who is MUCH better than Hunter has to be worth at least 25MIL a year if not more because of all the hype and attention he will bring when he approaches the HR record.
3. Yes, he emasculated Cashman but he did however allow Cashman to choose the next manager for the Yankees, no?
4. I’ll give you Mariano being slightly overpaid. However the length and total dollar amount of Francisco Cordero is longer than Mo’s contract and I ask you who would you rather have for the next 3 years?
Other than those points everything else you said is completely true.
Buddy Biancalana
November 26th, 2007 at 11:30 pm
“Jim Kaat should get in the HOF before Rice does. Sorry Ray.”
No problem Buddy.
I don’t care who we give up as long as Joba, Hughes, and Cano aren’t involved. Give up Melky then sign Jones for 6 years? Or maybe we don’t even need an outfielder on the days that Santana pitches, he’s so darned good. Anxiety! Just keep the aforementioned 3.
It’s nice to see the Yankees talking and at least kicking the tires on a Santana trade. Even though Hank said that he didn’t want to get into details, I can imagine that he was wanting to say much more. He usually isn’t short on comments.
Meanwhile, I’m really beginning to feel sorry for the Miami Dolphins. Dan Marino, Don Shula, Marks Brothers, where are you???????
Isn’t that the movie where Matt Damon gets away with murder at the end?...Oh yeah, that’s right, now I remember…
Still can’t believe that Matt Damon was People’s Sexiest Man Alive. Gross.
J-Dawg
but Ricky “the bong” Williams is back for the 8th time.
J-Dawg: Well if the Dolphins can’t win even if the other team nearly scores 0….
it doesn’t really bode well.
Buddy- Ricky played a bit tonight, but left in the 2nd quarter with a shoulder injury. How many more chances is he going to get before the NFL says goodbye?
And to answer the question from a while ago, yes I would want Pettitte back no matter what. The door should always be open for Andy to continue pitching as a Yankee.
congrats we have traded the OF for the next 4 – 5 yrs., so no on here is tired of buying mid 30’s OF who can’t man thier position as good as they use to ?
People whining about Hank:
It’s already been leaked that the Twins and Yanks have talked about player packages. Who cares if Hank confirmed that yes, they’re talking? He didn’t say ANYTHING about what players are involved. He just confirmed something that we already knew was happening. Jeez.
People saying “thank god they’re thinking about the pen”:
OBVIOUSLY they’re thinking about the pen. What do you think Cash has been doing since the media stopped bothering him and starting talking to Hank? LOOKING INTO BULLPEN OPTIONS, and starting up the Santana talks.
People talking about Austin Jackson:
Nobody thinks he’s going to be in the majors by the end of this year. He hasn’t even played in AA yet. He’s only 20. If he arrives some time in mid 2009, that will be EARLY. The Yanks have him and Tabata, both of whom are now pretty highly rated and both of whom play CF. That means we can probably afford to give up one of them, and certainly means we can afford to give up Melky.
If Melky goes, DON’T sign Rowand. He gets dirty, so people like him, but he’s not actually a very good hitter. He had one or two good years outside of his contract year playing in a tiny stadium. Also, don’t sign Andruw…unless he’ll take a one year make-good deal. If he’s getting multi-year offers, pass and think about signing Cameron for a year, maybe two if you have to. He plays a great CF as well, provides Hunter-like production, and won’t require a long-term commitment. Alternatively, sign Kielty and let Damon play CF against a lot of righties, with Matsui in LF. Start Kielty against lefties and pinch-hit him liberally.
raymagnetic,
No one’s happier than me that Mo and Jorge are back but the negotiations were handled terribly. Posada wasn’t going to the Mets and no other team even made Mo an offer.
As to Arod, Boras had plenty of time to shop him and found no other team foolish enough to bite at the numbers he wanted. That’s the one and only reason he’s coming back. They bet that Hank’s (and Cash’s) threats were all talk and they were right. We paid him at least $50 M more than any other team would dream of offering.
dont make fun of ricky just because he like to smoke
rebecca- did you really say that between santana and pettitte you would chose pettitte? I love the guy and there is no question he is a proven pitcher for us, but given the choice of only 1 i dont think its much of a debate, you take santana. now on the other hand, i think getting santana will actually increase the likelihood of pettitte coming back because he said he wants to play for a champion and not a contender. Then, assuming we didnt gut the big 3 in getting santana we could put joba back in the bullpen and have a rotation of
Santana
Wang
Hughes/Kennedy (whichever we dont trade, hopefully we keep hughes)
Pettite
Mussina
Joba-8th
Mo-9th
We all know mussina is washed up, but i think the team is better off with moose in the rotation and joba in the pen setting up for the sandman.
any chance we can land santana without giving up melky or cano? probably not, but i am wishful thinking that we can keep the C and C crew together
“congrats we have traded the OF for the next 4 – 5 yrs., so no on here is tired of buying mid 30’s OF who can’t man thier position as good as they use to ?”
Have you not heard of Jose Tabata and Brett Gardner?
CF is the one position where the organization has depth. Gardner could be an everyday guy if he can keep walking at the major league level. Tabata is one of the most highly-touted hitters in the low minors. Jackson’s athleticism finally coalesced into a good baseball player this season. Melky has a great arm and is about a league-average CFer at the tender age of 23. That’s four CFers, all of whom should be in the majors in the next 3-4 years. Two guys who will be about average offensively (Melky, Gardner), one who could be an all-star (Jackson), and one who might be a superstar (Tabata). Tabata and Jackson are probably two years out, Gardner could push his way up with a good year in AAA this season.
Trading away Melky and one of the others is far from the worst thing in the world.
Tabata is a corner outfielder and yes he can hit like crazy. Gardner is not better than Action and Action played AA playoofs and AAA playoffs last season, he debuted in AAA playoffs w/ a double
“Posada wasn’t going to the Mets”
Oh, really? Could the Yankees afford to take that chance?
The Sox could afford to let Lowell hang because a) no one else wanted him for more than three years and b) they have an in-house option for 3B that’s solid (Youkilis). The Yanks had what, Jose Molina?
As for Mo…I don’t really know why they upped the offer from 40 to 45 mil. That seems stupid.
As for ARod…if the Angels were willing to sign an OFer they don’t need for 90 million, they’d have been willing to show Alex the cash. He was a PERFECT fit for them. A huge bat at a position they’ve been trying to fill for years now.
Rebecca- It is bad for them, and the worst may not have even arrived for Miami yet. Maybe they should play Tennessee. I’m a little disgusted with the Titans at this point.
The Yankees would probably only make a commitment to Andruw Jones on two conditions, and both of these are definitely questionable. 1) He agrees to take a one-year deal. Not likely because Scott Boras is his agent, and after all, he did have a monster year powerwise in ‘06 before this year’s disaster. Someone will give him a multi-year deal based on pre-’07 performances alone. Somewhere a team will come along who is completely convinced that this year was a mirage.
2) He sheds some weight. The extra weight has definitely teamed with age to handicap some of his agility in center field. Yeah, he can still make the diving catch, but he doesn’t get to quite as many balls as he used to. It would be a good time for him to shape up and realize that he can add years to his career by getting into better shape.
In the end, the Yankees are not a fit for Andruw Jones, because I just can’t see those two conditions happening. Although I have been wrong numerous times before.
“Tabata is a corner outfielder and yes he can hit like crazy. Gardner is not better than Action and Action played AA playoofs and AAA playoffs last season, he debuted in AAA playoffs w/ a double”
Tabata is not a corner OFer. He’s been playing all over the OF and the organization wants him to play CF. He was playing in the corners because he was on teams with guys that didn’t have the bat to hold down a corner position (like Jackson). But he can play CF.
So, Jackson (I refuse to call him Action) played a few games at AA and a few at AAA. Ok. Has he shown the ability to consistently handle advanced pitching that will actually adjust to his tendencies? The jump to AA is hard, so let’s hold off anointing him the 2009 starting CFer until he’s ACTUALLY mastered at least AA ball.
J-Dawg:
Dude, Miami will probably beat the Jets.
(I don’t even know how I’;m doing with football picks any more…)
Andrea,
How can you say Capote “invented” the non fiction novel and ignore Hemingway?? His book “Green Hill of Africa” was a nonfiction novel documenting a hunting trip on an African safari. Also, “A Moveable Feast” though not a novel, is a “fictional” memoir of his experiences in Paris in the 1920’s.
Nevertheless, best of luck. Will you post anywhere online when it’s done?
Great points. Proud supporter of “whozat being whozat”.
show me a quote where they said that
What’s the fascination with Melky anyway? .327OBP, .391SLG, decent base-stealing threat with 13 SB/18 Attempts. Are those really league avgs stats for a CF?
And do people really believe there’s a Gold Glove in his future? He’s above avg range and gun for an arm, but in CF, that’s more luxury than anything.
Look cross town and you have a player very similar to him: Endy Chavez.
I don’t think Endy Chavez being a big part of any trade package will land Santana.
Here’s a profile on Tabata being a natural CF.
http://ingeorgewetrust.blogspot.com/2006/02/prospect-profile-jose-tabata.html
Loserbob: Having grown up with the arm of Bernie Williams in CF, I am treasuring every throw Melky makes
Brandon,
A quick search shows that Jackson played 3 games at Trenton this year. No AAA. Or do you have a better source?
He’s only 20, almost 21, and he hit 260 with little power the first half of the year at Charleston. He was great in the 2nd half at Tampa, but Eric Duncan had a great half year too. I think it’s too soon to call Jackson untouchable. If Jackson is the key to getting Santana, The Cash Man and Little Stein have my blessing.
If Gammons is right, and MN’s original request was Hughes, Melky, Jackson, then I’d counter with Kennedy, Melky, Jackson. I hope Gammons is right, because that’s not a crazy offer, and I think we could talk them off Hughes and still get Santana. Which would be a huge coup.
From the Times:
“If we make a trade for anybody, it’s going to be fair for both sides,†Steinbrenner said. “We’re not looking to rob anybody. We’re also not going to give up all of our future for one player, even if it is a pitcher.â€
“show me a quote where they said that”
Go find it yourself. You’ll need a subscription to pinstripesplus.com, I suspect.
He has the speed to play CF at this point. Why would they NOT want him to play CF if he can? Then you can put a lesser fielder with a big bat next to him.
Jackson may be a better CFer, I don’t know. But I know they can both play there at this time.
“If Gammons is right, and MN’s original request was Hughes, Melky, Jackson, then I’d counter with Kennedy, Melky, Jackson. I hope Gammons is right, because that’s not a crazy offer, and I think we could talk them off Hughes and still get Santana. Which would be a huge coup.”
I concur.
Tabata has played some centerfield in the minor leagues but it is not accurate to say that center is the position where he projects to play in the majors.
It’s not really that unusual for guys in the minors to play all over the field, particularly in the outfield.
Tabata already has a somewhat squat build at the age of 18. There are some concerns about his conditioning and how his running will hold up over time (tabata himself discussed in his blog this year how his conditioning could have been better). He is in no way a classic centerfielder.
Just because a guy plays centerfield at age 17 doesn’t mean that is where he is going to play in the majors.
Tabata has decent speed but not the kind that would make him an outstanding centerfielder nor would his range be a plus at that position. He is nowhere in the class of Jackson in terms of range or speed.
Could he play center – perhaps. But that’s not where he is projected to play. You’d be “putting up” with him in center to squeeze in his bat rather than playing him there as a strength.
Center is a premium defensive position and fitting a round peg into a square hole there doesn’t make a lot of sense.
Also, the link above to the blog In George We Trust is very, very old. That was from when Tabata was 17 and where he was going to play more fluid.
Here is a link from Mid-Season of this year by the same fellow who wrote that article from In George We Trust:
Jackson is now listed at a Right Fielder by the same person
http://riveraveblues.com/2007/08/16/post-draft-signing-period-top-30-prospects/
I meant to say that Tabata is now projected to play right field by the same person
Also, Jackson did play a few games in AAA this year – it was during the AAA playoffs. He did nicely in Scranton. It was just a cup of coffee sort of thing.
Thank you CB,
after my computer froze on me I was going to send this
Action Jackson
people who forgot he got a quick stint in AAA playoffs and then was sent to AA playoffs
damn links
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Jackson%20%20CF&pos=&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=457706
ML
November 27th, 2007 at 12:42 am
Brandon,
A quick search shows that Jackson played 3 games at Trenton this year. No AAA. Or do you have a better source?
He’s only 20, almost 21, and he hit 260 with little power the first half of the year at Charleston. He was great in the 2nd half at Tampa, but Eric Duncan had a great half year too. I think it’s too soon to call Jackson untouchable. If Jackson is the key to getting Santana, The Cash Man and Little Stein have my blessing.
If Gammons is right, and MN’s original request was Hughes, Melky, Jackson, then I’d counter with Kennedy, Melky, Jackson. I hope Gammons is right, because that’s not a crazy offer, and I think we could talk them off Hughes and still get Santana. Which would be a huge coup.
Jackson played in pitcher’s leagues with big ballparks this year. The power is there. Not necessarily 30 homer power, but 20-25, and lots of double-triple power combined with the speed to force defensive mistakes. He played in lower A ball in Charleston, high A ball in Tampa, hit very well in Trenton’s post season games and got into a game in Scranton, doing pretty well. His walks are coming up and his strikeouts are coming down.
Tabata spent all season in Tampa, and with a broken hamate bone in his hand and a cyst in his wrist, still hit over .300 and drove in runs. The power is there. He just needs to be healthy. Go out to the Trenton games and watch him play next season. For a kid that just turned 19, he’s something special. He’s been in leagues about 2 years older on the average as he is.
“show me a quote where they said thatâ€
Go find it yourself. You’ll need a subscription to pinstripesplus.com, I suspect.””
For a guy who is constantly getting on other posters to produce something to back up their opinions and insulting them when they don’t that’s a very mature response.
I guess some people’s opinions are so insightful that they don’t need to be held to the same standard they hold others to.
I insulted someone ? to my knowledge I insulted one person and that was Julio for the bogus rumor, I didn’t insult anyone after that
”(tabata himself discussed in his blog this year how his conditioning could have been better). He is in no way a classic centerfielder.”
So, he didn’t do his running and his range diminished. Ok. If he does his conditioning, where will he play? If a great hitter can play an adequate CF, and you can find good corner bats, that’s what you do. All I know is the stuff I was reading early this season said that he could play CF, but there were questions about whether he’d be able to play there past his late 20’s. I don’t really see how that could have changed in six months, but maybe it has.
CB basically gave you an update
A) Tabata is a COF (everyone knows this) power hitter no one wants him getting hurt w/ his hitting
B) Action is a CF and played AAA playoffs and hit in the AAA playoffs too
C) The In George we Trust article was old when Tabata was 17 and an upcoming star (still is)
Well, that’s great that Jackson had a cup of coffee in AAA. But this followed a cup of coffee in AA. He still hasn’t played regularly above A ball.
I look forward to seeing what he does in Trenton next year. But until then, I’d happily include him in the right deal.
“For a guy who is constantly getting on other posters to produce something to back up their opinions and insulting them when they don’t that’s a very mature response.”
This isn’t an opinion. It’s a statement about things that I’ve read that I don’t feel like looking up right now.
“I think Austin Jackson is better than Tabata” is an opinion that requires backing up.
“Jose Tabata has played CF, and the Yankees want him to stay there” is just a repetition of scouting reports that I’ve read. And obvious, if you think about it. Why wouldn’t they want corner OF offense out of CF? Last time I read, scouts still thought he could hack it out there, but he was playing in the corners because other guys needed to play CF. Maybe puberty turned him into more of a fireplug. I dunno. Maybe if he does his conditioning, he’ll be an above average CFer again.
Greenberet7,
I will check out Trenton and Scranton games this year (as I did last year), and look forward to seeing Jackson. By the way, the discussion was about him, not Tabata, although it probably applies to him as well.
Basically, I don’t doubt that they are both high ceiling prospects, but I don’t see why they should both be untouchable. Most prospects don’t pan out. In a deal for a Santana, you may have to give up something like Tabata or Jackson, esp. if you want to try to keep Hughes.
Would I trade both? Probably not. Would I trade either for someone not named Santana? Probably not, although Haren or Bedard might make me think. But for Santana, I think you’d have to include one and not think twice.
There is a major difference between someone who “could” play centerfield, someone who “does” play centerfield and someone who will likely continue to play centerfield in the majors.
When evaluating a prospect you have to take into consideration the position he is most likely to play or the position that best fits his skill set, not simply where he “could” play.
With Tabata that is not centerfield. That’s not likely to be his best position or where he will most likely play.
Tabata has not played centerfield much at all over the past two years.
Two years ago in Charleston and last year in Tampa he played alongside Jackson and pretty much played right field.
It’s not likely he going to increase his range substantially as he gets older. The opposite is true – as he matures and fills out he’ll naturally gain weight and his range will likely diminish. He’s only 18 and doesn’t play centerfield on a day in and day out basis. It’s not likely he will.
This is a critical point because if Tabata did project as a strong centerfielder he would be absolutely untouchable. His bat – even if he didn’t hit for much power – would be that much more valuable in center.
As a corner outfielder you do have to be at least somewhat concerned over his power production. I do think that will come given how the FSL zaps power and his youth but he hasn’t shown that yet.
The wrist injury h