Comments on: Hall of Fame voting gets underway http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/11/27/hall-of-fame-voting-gets-underway/ A Yankees Blog by Journal News beat writer Peter Abraham Thu, 4 Dec 2008 04:30:16 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Trent B. http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/11/27/hall-of-fame-voting-gets-underway/#comment-205152 Trent B. Thu, 29 Nov 2007 00:53:05 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/11/27/hall-of-fame-voting-gets-underway/#comment-205152 I see a few other comments previous to mine of note. Santana is the best available, maybe the best overall. If he plays for Boston or New York, he wins 25 games. I watched him pitch 3 starts in a row, allowed 3 runs or less and pitched 7+ innings and actually lost 2 of those 3. The Twins, as a general rule, cannot hit high caliber pitching, just ask Sabathia, who owned them all year, and was opposed by, guess who, Santana, who did allow a ton of home runs, though most were solo shots. Also, on a list of guys getting into the hall that were active last season, Chipper Jones was not mentioned, nor was Tom Glavine, both are automatic, along with Ivan Rodriguez, Craig Biggio, Jim Thome, Frank Thomas, Ken Griffey Jr., Roger Clemens,Manny Ramirez, Alex Rodriguez, Derek Jeter, Omar Vizquel, Jorge Posada (oh Yes), Mariano Rivera, Vlad Guerrero, Greg Maddux, Trevor Hoffman, Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, Jeff Kent, Billy Wagner (outside shot), John Smoltz, Curt Schilling (but maybe not because Jack Morris isn't in the hall), Gary Sheffield, and Ichiro will get in if he plays 2 more years. I see a few other comments previous to mine of note. Santana is the best available, maybe the best overall. If he plays for Boston or New York, he wins 25 games. I watched him pitch 3 starts in a row, allowed 3 runs or less and pitched 7+ innings and actually lost 2 of those 3. The Twins, as a general rule, cannot hit high caliber pitching, just ask Sabathia, who owned them all year, and was opposed by, guess who, Santana, who did allow a ton of home runs, though most were solo shots. Also, on a list of guys getting into the hall that were active last season, Chipper Jones was not mentioned, nor was Tom Glavine, both are automatic, along with Ivan Rodriguez, Craig Biggio, Jim Thome, Frank Thomas, Ken Griffey Jr., Roger Clemens,Manny Ramirez, Alex Rodriguez, Derek Jeter, Omar Vizquel, Jorge Posada (oh Yes), Mariano Rivera, Vlad Guerrero, Greg Maddux, Trevor Hoffman, Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, Jeff Kent, Billy Wagner (outside shot), John Smoltz, Curt Schilling (but maybe not because Jack Morris isn’t in the hall), Gary Sheffield, and Ichiro will get in if he plays 2 more years.

]]> By: Trent B. http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/11/27/hall-of-fame-voting-gets-underway/#comment-205131 Trent B. Thu, 29 Nov 2007 00:40:38 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/11/27/hall-of-fame-voting-gets-underway/#comment-205131 Mike Mussina and Jack Morris should get into the Hall of Fame. Jim Rice should have been there a long time ago. If you don't put those guys in, then I suggest you take out Phil Rizzuto, Orlando Cepeda (good, but not Hall of Fame), Tony Perez, etc. What you are looking at for the guys I just mentioned was, at least for Rizzuto and Perez, was the team they played on. I call it the Michael Irvin effect. No way he is an NFL hall of famer, but a product of his team. Blyleven, if he played for any other team, would have easily eclipsed 300 wins. If he doesn't get in, then you have to kick out Don Sutton and Phil Niekro, among others. Also, Morris should get in if you are going to put Pedro Martinez into the hall, which is almost a certainty. Also, if Andy Pettite eventually gets in, then Jack Morris should automatically be in. His Post season glory is impeccable and comparable to fellow stud John Smoltz. Mike Mussina and Jack Morris should get into the Hall of Fame. Jim Rice should have been there a long time ago. If you don’t put those guys in, then I suggest you take out Phil Rizzuto, Orlando Cepeda (good, but not Hall of Fame), Tony Perez, etc. What you are looking at for the guys I just mentioned was, at least for Rizzuto and Perez, was the team they played on. I call it the Michael Irvin effect. No way he is an NFL hall of famer, but a product of his team. Blyleven, if he played for any other team, would have easily eclipsed 300 wins. If he doesn’t get in, then you have to kick out Don Sutton and Phil Niekro, among others. Also, Morris should get in if you are going to put Pedro Martinez into the hall, which is almost a certainty. Also, if Andy Pettite eventually gets in, then Jack Morris should automatically be in. His Post season glory is impeccable and comparable to fellow stud John Smoltz.

]]> By: winfield killed my seagull http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/11/27/hall-of-fame-voting-gets-underway/#comment-205045 winfield killed my seagull Wed, 28 Nov 2007 23:26:22 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/11/27/hall-of-fame-voting-gets-underway/#comment-205045 I find it hard to believe that people would vote for Jim Rice, Tim Raines, Bert Blyleven.......c'mon. These guys, along with most of the list, belong in the "Hall of very good" i might give you Goose, but thats about it and for SHAMUS who said... It looked like Rice was in Pompei, running with the Bulls…. And he’s supposed to be an icon and legend in Red Sox Nation? were these bulls running from liquid hot magma?????(placing pinky next to lip) I find it hard to believe that people would vote for Jim Rice, Tim Raines, Bert Blyleven…....c’mon. These guys, along with most of the list, belong in the “Hall of very good”

i might give you Goose, but thats about it

and for SHAMUS who said…
It looked like Rice was in Pompei, running with the Bulls…. And he’s supposed to be an icon and legend in Red Sox Nation?

were these bulls running from liquid hot magma?????(placing pinky next to lip)

]]> By: Mike S. http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/11/27/hall-of-fame-voting-gets-underway/#comment-204357 Mike S. Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:13:14 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/11/27/hall-of-fame-voting-gets-underway/#comment-204357 The man's name is Tony Mullane. He is not in the Hall of Fame despite 284 wins. http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/mullato01.shtml Here is a comparison. Pitcher A is being advocated by some for the HOF. Pitcher A. 254 career wins. 3.90 ERA. 162 game average 16-11, 3.90, WHIP 1.296, ERA+ 105, 2478 K, 1390 walks, 3824 IP, 7x top 10 for CYA, 549 g, 527 as a starter Pitcher B. 250 career wins. 3.70 ERA, 162 game average 16-9, 3.70, WHIP 1.190, ERA+ 122, 2663 K, 764 walks. 3362 IP, 8x top 10 for CYA 503 g, 502 as a starter. Hmmm. Pitcher B has almost the same amount of wins in 460 some less IP and 46 less games. He has a better WHIP, lower ERA, better ERA+, more Ks, less walks. This isn’t to advocate one over the other, but just to make a point. Pitcher A is Jack Morris. Pitcher B is Mike Mussina. One gets a lot of HOF talk. The other? The man’s name is Tony Mullane. He is not in the Hall of Fame despite 284 wins.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/mullato01.shtml

Here is a comparison. Pitcher A is being advocated by some for the HOF.

Pitcher A. 254 career wins. 3.90 ERA. 162 game average 16-11, 3.90, WHIP 1.296, ERA+ 105, 2478 K, 1390 walks, 3824 IP, 7x top 10 for CYA, 549 g, 527 as a starter

Pitcher B. 250 career wins. 3.70 ERA, 162 game average 16-9, 3.70, WHIP 1.190, ERA+ 122, 2663 K, 764 walks. 3362 IP, 8x top 10 for CYA 503 g, 502 as a starter.

Hmmm. Pitcher B has almost the same amount of wins in 460 some less IP and 46 less games. He has a better WHIP, lower ERA, better ERA+, more Ks, less walks.

This isn’t to advocate one over the other, but just to make a point. Pitcher A is Jack Morris. Pitcher B is Mike Mussina. One gets a lot of HOF talk. The other?

]]> By: Max Fischer http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/11/27/hall-of-fame-voting-gets-underway/#comment-204331 Max Fischer Wed, 28 Nov 2007 15:19:52 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/11/27/hall-of-fame-voting-gets-underway/#comment-204331 GreenBeret7 November 27th, 2007 at 4:43 pm Max Fischer November 27th, 2007 at 10:53 am If Blyleven is elected he will become the only player in the Hall who was born in Europe. ________________________________________________ Actually, there are three European born HOFers, brothers Harry and George Wright from England and Tony Malone from Ireland. Damn those 19th-century players!! I forgot about the hapless Wright brothers, polluters of all things golden. But who is this Tony Malone you speak of? I cannot find him anywhere. GreenBeret7 November 27th, 2007 at 4:43 pm

Max Fischer
November 27th, 2007 at 10:53 am
If Blyleven is elected he will become the only player in the Hall who was born in Europe.

__
Actually, there are three European born HOFers, brothers Harry and George Wright from England and Tony Malone from Ireland.

Damn those 19th-century players!! I forgot about the hapless Wright brothers, polluters of all things golden. But who is this Tony Malone you speak of? I cannot find him anywhere.

]]> By: yg bluig http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/11/27/hall-of-fame-voting-gets-underway/#comment-204321 yg bluig Wed, 28 Nov 2007 14:25:19 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/11/27/hall-of-fame-voting-gets-underway/#comment-204321 Blyleven Gossage Maybe Dawson Not yet McGwire. (a few more lashes) Rice was my favorite player as a kid, but I've long felt he fell short of HOF. He didn't play long enough and his last few years were blah. Raines played long enough, 23 years, but he was really mediocre in his final 10, and in his final 5 with the Yankees, he didn't even play all that much. I could be pursuaded to vote for Tommy John, if for no other reason than for being the guinea pig for the surgery that bears his name. Blyleven
Gossage
Maybe Dawson
Not yet McGwire. (a few more lashes)

Rice was my favorite player as a kid, but I’ve long felt he fell short of HOF. He didn’t play long enough and his last few years were blah.

Raines played long enough, 23 years, but he was really mediocre in his final 10, and in his final 5 with the Yankees, he didn’t even play all that much.

I could be pursuaded to vote for Tommy John, if for no other reason than for being the guinea pig for the surgery that bears his name.

]]> By: Bob R. http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/11/27/hall-of-fame-voting-gets-underway/#comment-204295 Bob R. Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:49:27 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/11/27/hall-of-fame-voting-gets-underway/#comment-204295 Blyleven: There is enough analysis now to make it conclusive that he belongs in the HOF. Gossage: Once closers get in, Gossage should be a lock. Raines: Criminally underrated. A brilliant player. McGwire: It is not just the home runs. He is a HOF offensive player and good enough defensively as well. A .394 lifetime OBP .588 Slugging with an OPS of .982 which is an OPS+ of 162! He had an OPS+ over 200 3 times and only in his first season was it below 100 for the 12 time all-star. Blyleven: There is enough analysis now to make it conclusive that he belongs

in the HOF.
Gossage: Once closers get in, Gossage should be a lock.
Raines: Criminally underrated. A brilliant player.
McGwire: It is not just the home runs. He is a HOF offensive player
and good enough defensively as well. A .394 lifetime OBP
.588 Slugging with an OPS of .982 which is an OPS+ of 162!
He had an OPS+ over 200 3 times and only in his first season
was it below 100 for the 12 time all-star.

]]> By: The Fat Toad http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/11/27/hall-of-fame-voting-gets-underway/#comment-204290 The Fat Toad Wed, 28 Nov 2007 06:21:50 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/11/27/hall-of-fame-voting-gets-underway/#comment-204290 Caspian...good framework to work from but you are missing one player. Ichiro Suzuki. I bet he nails 3000 hits before he retires! Caspian…good framework to work from but you are missing one player.

Ichiro Suzuki. I bet he nails 3000 hits before he retires!

]]> By: The Fat Toad http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/11/27/hall-of-fame-voting-gets-underway/#comment-204288 The Fat Toad Wed, 28 Nov 2007 06:11:19 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/11/27/hall-of-fame-voting-gets-underway/#comment-204288 My votes: Goose Gossage Rock Raines Bert Blyleven (played on some miserable teams!) I am surprised by the lack of support for Mark McGuire. I would vote for him in a future year. By that time it will be obvious how many others, that will be enshrined in the Hall, took steroids as well. My votes:

Goose Gossage
Rock Raines
Bert Blyleven (played on some miserable teams!)

I am surprised by the lack of support for Mark McGuire. I would vote for him in a future year. By that time it will be obvious how many others, that will be enshrined in the Hall, took steroids as well.

]]> By: Ruben http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/11/27/hall-of-fame-voting-gets-underway/#comment-204287 Ruben Wed, 28 Nov 2007 05:56:21 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/11/27/hall-of-fame-voting-gets-underway/#comment-204287 Lee Smith, Goose Gossage and JIM RICE. The first 2 are among the most dominant relievers of all time, and my website has all the reasons why I chose Jim Rice. To me, guys like Jack Morris, Trammell, Dawson were very good players for a very long time, but were never really dominant. Lee Smith, Goose Gossage and JIM RICE.
The first 2 are among the most dominant relievers of all time, and my website has all the reasons why I chose Jim Rice.

To me, guys like Jack Morris, Trammell, Dawson were very good players for a very long time, but were never really dominant.

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