The 365-day season presses on
-
- November
- 27
I drove back to New York this afternoon (vacation, sadly, has but five days remaining) and I listed to sports talk radio all the way. Mostly WFAN, but some WEEI (Boston) and some ESPN Radio in New York.
It’s Nov. 27 and all everybody wanted to talk about was baseball. Johan Santana mostly but also the Mets, Mike Lowell, A-Rod, Anduw Jones, etc.
Football rules on Sunday. The television ratings cannot be questioned and people can’t wait to bet it. I love the NFL and everything about it. But don’t tell me baseball is a dying sport or that football has replaced it in the hearts and mind of Americans.
Nobody talks football once the games are over. We know nothing much about 85 percent of the players and not even the best fan could name all of the GMs. But even a casual baseball fan can list four prospects his team could trade for Santana. Or has an opinion on A-Rod.
It must drive the NFL, NBA and NHL people nuts to flip on the radio at 4 p.m. on a late November day and hear nothing but talk about whether Minnesota will trade the lefty. But that is what makes our sport the best. It never goes out of season. They just stop the games for a few months.
———————-
Meanwhile, Save Phil Hughes!
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on Tuesday, November 27th, 2007 at 6:17 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Peter Abraham
I love Phil Hughes, but you know what? If it’s Phil, Melky and less prospects, sayonara Phil!
We shall see. I also loved Randy Johnson and look at how that ended.
Nice post, Peter. I agree completely.
You’re spot on, Pete. But without the Yankees, and to a similar degree, the Red Sox, the interest and the talk would disappear like ether.
I meant to say “lesser prospects…”
Kennedy and Melky for santana
sign rownand – then adress the 8th inning
Baseball offseason= the best offseason in all of sports, by far. No other sport’s offseason is even close, even though I am a huge NFL and NBA fan. Nothing compares to speculating about all of the MLB trade rumors and free agents.
Actually, people are talking football today…
but that’s besides the point.
Off the top of my head:
Cashman
Minaya
Epstein
Beane
McPhail
that dude for Colorado
Hey Pete,
How about another poll. Who wants Santana for Hughes? Who wants Santana for some other combination? Who wants Santana as a free agent only?
el comaduce –
Sorry but the Twins will need more than Kennedy and Melky. Add somebody else not named Joba and Phil and you get their ear.
Yes, Aaron Rowand would be strongly considered if Melky goes and Cashman WILL address the bullpen at the winter meetings.
Shapiro (BTW why is it pronounced Sha-pie-row?)
Dombrosky (Detroit)
el comaduce:
If the Twins do that trade, the GM should be run out of baseball.
Think of it this way. Say Joba was 5 years into his career and had 100-25 record so far but we were about to expose him to FA. The Mets come to you with Mike Pelfry and Carlos Gomez. Do you make the trade??
i think the other prospect wont be top tier… I have a feeling johan wants to be a yankee. I think after being on the twins, u would love to be on a team that does not have a hard budget
Kenny Williams- Chi Sox
Bill Bavasi- Mariners
J.P. Riccardi- Jays
Bill Smith- Twinkies
Brian Sabean- Gigantes
Rebecca –
You may want to get used to the name Bill Smith. He’s the GM of the Twins.
Melky, IPK, Tabata and Horne i think would get it done. We keep joba and hughes and Action Jackson.
We coud also possibly throw in wilson betemit as a 3rd baseman for them to replace punto with….that deal would look more like Melky, IPK, Tabata or Horne, and Betemit
There are a lot of posts regarding the “365 day season” on the previous thread. Good reading and much fun.
Alex Rodriguez saved baseball. DO NOT TRADE PHIL HUGHES….
Colletti of the Dodgers.
it’s because there is no salary cap and trading is super easy … all the other sports trading players seems complicated, i remember playing madden and trying to make a trade and it told me I was getting fined for some reason or another, blah blah blah, just let me trade the guy. Baseball’s offseason is so much fun. Especially in the north east.
the Todd,
Especially when you have bottomless bank accounts!
exactly … suck on that one twins !!!
So now the “Yankees and Twins discuss Santana” headline at si.com is now, “Yankees, Sox in Santana talks”
mel:
Legs.
Legs in ‘stripes or in red stockings?
Bobcat- Let’s do another variation of Mel’s game from the previous thread. Here’s a nod to One Away on The Price is Right. Honk a horn once if the Yankee rumors have legs, twice if the Red Sox rumors have legs!
Quite honestly, the proposition of trading ANY of the young starting pitchers for a guy who let up a considerably more homeruns than any other season in his career in fewer innings. He also logged the highest 200 + innings ERA (by over half a run)of his career. I am dead set against this trade. The only way I would consider it is Horne, Melky and Tabata and maybe Jackson. Dont give up the young pitching. Johan would be nice for the next 5-7 years but Kennedy and Hughes can set us up for the next 10 to 15 years
J-dawd,
LOL. In my version eye blinks became REM. In your version honks might lead to road rage!
Sorry, that was supposed to be J-dawg.
good post pete. and i agree that the lack of a salary cap has something to do with it… the NFL channel will be jealous of MLB network ratings once they are both around. (does anyone watch the NFL network other than the few games that are scheduled on it towards the end of the season?) i hardly think about football in the month prior to it starting up. not until i actually see some games do i care, for the most part.
Don’t trade The Franchise!
Mel- Maybe the honking idea leaves a bit to be desired in that case!
I’d trade Melky and Kennedy, but we have to keep Hughes. Trading for Santana would mean we would have a real ace, but Hughes could be that ace in a few years and we dont want to regret letting him go.
“Gentlemen, do I have at least 2 prospects right?”....
lol
I heard today the sox are offering buckholz and elberry. If the sox get Santana, we are absolutely screwed. Why do they even need a starting pitcher when they have beckett, dice-k (who everyone still thinks is a second ace) schilling, lester, buckholz and wakefield as a backup. If everything breaks right thas a pretty solid staff. DAMN THEM FOR TRYING TO GET JOHAN! He is the yankees, we may have lost pettitte and wang is no ace WE NEED HIM SO MUCH MORE.
I think an offer of Melky, Horne and Cano/Hughes is ten times better than elburry and Buckholz. Cano is actually proven and hughes was the top prospect in all of baseball. Melky is a starting centerfielder and has already proven he can play in the majors. Horne is our best pitching prospect. Its the redsox two best prospects or our best prospect and the best prospect in all of baseball or the best secondbaseman in all of baseball.
Pete, they were talking about football all day today. And when they werent, they were talking about the guy on the skin who was shot and died. I dunno what wfan and espn radio stations u were listening to but u must have turned them on at the perfect time for baseball cuz i didnt hear more than two minutes about Johan and i listened for about two hours today.
Let’s be honest: Yanks need Santana for 2 reasons (mutually exclusive):
(1) Yanks really need a bona fide Ace (preferably left-handed)
(2) Yanks really need to keep Santana away from Boston.
The price?
Trade the farm. Try to keep Joba (he seems super-talented as a set-up man and future closer), but trade anyone and everyone else. Santana is worth it.
and buckholz never pitched more than 120 innings- how do the twins even know he can pith a whole major league season?
Bobcat,
And are the legs near the finish line, rounding the last turn, or in the blocks?
the sox have absolutely nothing else to offer besides ellsbury, buckholz and lester. I cant believe ppl are talking about crisp in the deal – HA that would be doing the suxx a favor by getting rid of him so they can start ellsbury without having to sit a player of crisp salary on the bench. The suxx dont have any solid minor league prospects like horne, tabata and austin jackson nor can they offer a young major league all star like cano. Nor do they have any starter like melky who is an average centerfielder making league minimum and easily tradable and a very useable piece. The suxx trade talks shouldnt last very long when they really will only involve three players. Unless they are planning to offer papelbon ina trade i think the yanks have them beat – ellsburry, lester and buckholz combined arent nearly worth cano/Hughes, melky and a mix of yankee minor league prospects.
mel & J-Dawg:
This thing is a bit of an octupuss, in that all the legs are intertwined, as they should be. The Twins need to do this the right way and make their team better in about 5-6 positions.
“A” needs to get done so that “B” can follow, etc. “B” is the Yankees’ piece, and as I indicated on the previous thread, even that has various levels. The better the deal that “A” is for Minnesota, the better the “B” deal is for the Yankees, assuming “better” means less of the higher level guys (tradeoff being more of the lower level guys, if there is such a thing).
Legs, as in the octopuss is moving forward.
No thanks on Santana. Keep Hughes.
Let Boston give up those prospects to get Santana. That prospect doesn’t bother me.
The Yanks will start hitting Santana too once they start facing him more often. They’ve knocked around Pedro, Beckett, and Schilling over the years so why wouldn’t it happen with Santana?
It’s never a good idea to make a trade simply to keep him away from your #1 rival. Not a good enough reason to give up a promising young arm like Hughes.
The Yanks need to worry about themselves – not the Red Sox.
I wouldnt trade wang, hughes, chamberlain, jeter, arod or posada. Everyone else should be offered up for santana and the expensive players should be offered with half of their contract payed for. Or offer to pay Giambi’s entire contract and see if he can be a piece in the deal.
Dave:
Go to the previous thread and read the last hour or so’s posts. It will help crystalize things for you, I think.
Part of me wants to just let Santana ride until he hits free agency and just throw some $$$ at him to bring him on board, but is this a guy you really want to put on hold for a year ? Particularly with the Red Sox getting involved.
The pragmatist in me realizes that getting Santana to the Bronx is going to involving sacrificing some of the more promising young talent. Perhaps it would be less painful to pursue Kazmir or Bedard if they move beyond the rumor stage.
People stop talking about Randy Johnson comparasion.Randy was 40.SAntana is 28 and in his prime.
guiseppe that is the dumbest thing i ever heard. One, santana has pitched better than any other active pitcher in all of baseball in yankee stadium. Two, if the sox get santana, their rotation would be Santana, Beckett, Buckholz/Lester (depending which one is traded) Dice-K and schilling with wakefield as a backup. That is nasty and they would easily win the division. Three, the sox only have three quality prospects and none of them will ever be nearly as good as santana. If the yanks lets boston get johan the yanks prolly wont win the division for the next six yrs and boston will probably win numerous world series in the next six yrs.
I emailed the link to Phil. Just so he knows how loved he is.
u know how long that will take to read the whole thread?
Why dont u just fill me in with a short paragraph on what u guys discussed?
Pat Gillick – Phillies
Ed Wade – Astros(just hired)
Shpairo – Cleveland
Dave Dombrowski – Tigers
oH AND SANTANA IS a million times better than beckett and schilling. The yanks were NOT hitting around pedro when he was in his prime and santana will be 29 in march – that is the prime of his career for at least three yrs.
Here’s a different Big Unit example:
When the Mariner’s put him on the market, Johnson spoke through the media that the Yanks shouldn’t trade Pettitte for him because he’ll “probably end up there next year anyway” (via free agency). Yanks pull out of trade negotiations, and Big Unit signs with D-Backs the following year, unable to lose the NL Cy Young throwing in the desert.
Pull the trigger. Hughes MIGHT be an ace.
Amen Pete…
And as much as i love hughes, he will never be as good as santana. Johan is the best pitcher in baseball since pedro in his prime and clemens in his prime. That is talking about the top ten pitchers in history. That is a tall order for a kid that put up a 4.5 era in his first real stint in the majors.
Its one thing when Yankee haters say that the yankees have to give up Phil Hughes but when our own fans are brainwashed into believing it it is a bit shocking.
People didn’t know anything about Joba when the yankees drafted him…even questioned why they were putting him in the bullpen in August…now they’re ready to give up Phil Hughes just because we have Joba. Thankfully the Yankees management isn’t so fickle.
I saw Hughes in Trenton and in Game 3 of the Cleveland series…he is the real deal and you should not be to quick to give im up.
If all the Red Sox are offering are Buchholz/Lester and Ellsbury why do the Yankees have to give up Hughes and Cabrera? Just because Haters in the media want us to raid our farm system doesn’t mean we have to do it.
IPK pitched just as well as Bucholz (I know Bucholz pitched a no hitter, but we all know he is not going to do that every 5 days)when they were each called up September. Kennedy, Cabrera and another B rated prospect will do.
Now before you howl at me ask yourself what are the other teams really going to offer that is better than that.
Angels—looks like they’re saving up their prospects for Cabrera. After that they won’t have anything comparable to our prospects. Besides is Moreno going to give Santana 160 million. Maybe, I doubt it.
Red Sox – They are loathe to give up Ellsbury…unlike us they do not have an action Jackson in their hip pocket or Tabata. Besides am I the only one who thinks that they would have a huge problem paying Santana 160 million dollars. Every star on that team (except for Manny) has a below market contract. They have done a great job in convincing their players to give them a hometown discount in order to keep winning. Lowell rejected a huge contract from Philly (I think) to come back to Boston. Then they turn around and give Santana 20 million plus per year. I don’t think so folks.
Dodgers – They have yet to get off their duff this offseason. They also may be making a run at Cabrera. I know everyone loves Kemp et. al. but I think we can beat thei package with IPK. Plus they are NL prospects, definitely a grade below.
Mets – They can throw quantity (Humber, Pelfrey, Millidge, Fernandez) . The Pitching prospects are less than weak. Once again IPK is the best of the bunch.
I could be wrong but I think this gets done without giving up Hughes. The Yankees gave him the ok to purcase a house in Tampa last year, They picked Jeter as his mentor…I don’t believe they have any intention of trading him.
I welcome any criticism of my above analysis.
Mets
Dave:
That would be impossible, actually. We started about 2:30 or so. The highlights are probably the last hour or so.
Dave, you don’t get it.
Santana’s best years are likely behind him and he has a ton of miles on that arm. How many more games is Santana going to win over Hughes as he approaches 30 yrs old and beyond?
Your hyperbole is ridiculous. You don’t make trades out of fear. You make decisions in the best interest of YOUR team – not your rivals.
And we should just trade cano, melky and prospects so that we wont have to mortgage our future for the present. Johan is an ace, hughes may very well be one and cano will be nothing better than the best hitting second baseman in the majors. Its sooo mcuh easier to replace hitting in a lineup than find an ace. I know he is homegrown and succeeding in the majors so yankees fans are obsessed with him but he does not walk, will never hit more than 20 homers, will never have an obp more than 370 and teixera can easily replace his bat in the lineup next yr as well as about 20 other free agents next off season.
Really guys?
Get Santana because, oh no, the Red Sox might get him?
And the Yankees need an ace?
Hughes, Joba, Cano, Tabata, Jackson should be pretty much untouchable at this point. That’s an elite 2B, 2 aces, and 2 hitting corner OF all younger than 25.
You offer up Kennedy/Melky/Horne/Betemit for Santana. If they say no, move on.
Offer the same package for Haren. Say no? Move on and offer it for Bedard or Kazmir.
You don’t spend all your money on a million dollar house just because your neighbor got one.
You figure out what you’re willing to spend and then find something you can get with it.
SAVE PHIL HUGHES!!! Don’t trade a 21 year old ace. Thanks.
Wait—so, as a blog, can we name all baseball owners and GMs without looking?
I’ve got
Stienbrenner/Cashman
?/Epstein
Billionaire dude/Smith
whoownstheMets?!/Minaya
Loria/?
?/Bavasi
?/Beane
Moreno/?
Frank McCourt/?
Doesturnerstillownthebraves?/?
Pete Angelos/McPhail
Can we do the rest?
Hey Bobcat,
Anything about the Twins directly dealing with the Sox for Santana? Or are they only involved in the “smaller” deal? I read the previous stuff about Crisp etc, I was just wondering if there was anything going on there.
east side:
There is not a great deal of fault in your post, however, there are a couple of factors that override all logic:
1) Santana has a no-trade. He is using it.
2) The Twins don’t control this. Santana does. The Twins, as long as they get more than they will get in draft picks should Santana go to market next season, will do a trade.
3) The Twins want to improve their team in as many areas as possible. There are several other deals pending.
4) Santana wants to play for only one team.
5) The more bodies the Yankees give up, the less “top” guys they have to give up.
Bobcat,
Thanks. I think that octopi swim backwards, but I get the idea.
I see what you mean by the Santana thing getting “lost” in the shuffle, so to speak. It might soften the blow, but the Minny fans must see the writing on the wall.
Acquire the best pitcher in the game isnt in the best interest of the organization? Guiseppe, what are you smoking? We need an ace, a yankee fan says it every day the entire season. We finally have a chance to obtain one and fans are actually arguing against it. And u even want him to go to the redsox. Are u kidding me?
Santana is 28, he has pitched about 5 full seasons of baseball. Since when is 28 an age at which the best seasons for a pitcher are behind him? think about the years clemens had after 28 yrs old? And how many pitches did he throw at that point? Your argument is beyond ridiculous. I dont want to get rid of hughes or chamberlain id rather trade cano but really we should get him no matter what it takes. A 28 yr old ace who has dominated AL hitters for five straight seasons is impossible to come by these days. A 300 hitting secondbaseman with no speed and some power with ok defense can be easily replaced. And we do NOT want Johan being the second or third ace of the boston staff while we pray that chamberlain and hughes become the aces that they are in our minds.
Jonathan:
The Sox’ publicly professed mandate to not include Ellsbury in any trade is true and they are holding to it. They do not feel they have a lot of improving to do, and are much more interested in moving Crisp.
Twins WOULD do that piece, but if Melky goes, they don’t need to. Melky’s cheaper. If the Red Sox back off on who they want for Crisp, the dominoes start to fall.
The Garza/Young trade has an impact as well.
The more the Twins get from other teams, the more selective they can be as to what they take from the Yankees, since the Yankees’ trade has the most flexibility and the most moving parts.
It’s all connected and very logical.
more bodies doesnt mean u can give less quality that doesnt work.
Hughes is not an ace he is a potential ace who hasnt really showed us much yet on the major league level. I want hughes to stay but if push comes to shove i would trade him for the best pitcher in baseball. Id prefer to get rid of cano but i wouldnt let hughes hold it up. I WOULD NEVER GIVE UP BOTH OF THEM!
Dave:
Seriously, read the previous thread. If nothing else, search posts by yours truly and SJ44.
Looks like Pete’s started the music again… everybody grab a chair before it starts… on to the next thread.
Dave,
Go back and read the last thread.
Try starting here: http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/11/27/hall-of-fame-voting-gets-underway/#comment-203767
Bobcat did a very good job of talking me off the ledge. Dude, try to keep up. lol.
Santana would be a great addition at the right price and that price does not include Hughes and Joba. You do not give away swing and miss pitchers and that is what Hughes and Joba will be, IMO. Anyone else in the system can be included to get him, even Cano.
As reported on SI, Santana has a no trade clause and can dictate where he is traded, if he wants to.
Bobcat,
Even more reason for the Twins to make a deal with the Yankees. Johan knows the Yankees will pay him (If there is anything the Yankees know how to do it is writing a check). He has a great ERA in the stadium. You know he is itching to come to the Yankees
Thanks for the comment
Seriously…if he wants to make it happen, he will tell the Twins that the Yankees are the place he will approve.
What does he have to lose? If he doesn’t get traded, he hits Free Agency.
Who knows where he REALLY wants to go, if anywhere.
Everyone knows where he’ll have the best chance to win.
Reagins/Arte Moreno-LAA
Colletti/McCourt-LAD
Towers/Moores-SD
Dave,
I can’t reason with you at all because not only do you want them to trade Hughes, but Cano as well.
The Yanks don’t need an “ace” – they need depth in the rotation. Santana can only pitch once every 5 days and I don’t see any championship banners in Minnesota since he’s been atop their rotation.
They haven’t even made it past the ALDS in the last few years, so how has an “ace” worked out for the Twins in the postseason?
Here’s something else you’re not taking into consideration. Santana would be moving from the AL Central to the AL East and pitching a lot more games against teams with the best offenses in the league.
Good hitters and lineups learn to adjust to pitchers. He’s not going to have that same level of dominance with the Yanks that he had with the Twins the last few years. It’s just not going to happen.
Roger Clemens was the surest thing in MLB when he came over from the Jays after two more Cy Young Awards and he wasn’t very good the first couple of years in NY. In fact, he sucked in his first season with the Yanks and the team won in 1999 in spite of Clemens – not because of him.
Not everyone can play in New York. It took A-Rod a long time to adjust and it took Clemens a long time to adjust. These guys are the two greatest players at their position since World War II.
Forget it. You don’t understand.
nfl draft is better.
How can you trully believe cano is not going to ever hit more than 20 homeruns….....Dave come on, Santana is good but not that good….I just don’t believe we should give up to much youth for a pitcher that has reach its peak…..yankees should wait till he is a FA.
Oh! and i forgot to mention a pitcher whos number have steadily decline over last couple of years.
The draft is great, but it lasts only a weekend and the time in between picks is too long, that is why they shortened the time between picks in the 1st round. Baseball hotstove lasts the whole off season, some four months.
Pete is right, baseball is king, especially living in the northeast. I mean pitchers and catchers report in around three months.
I wouldnt offer up more than one young arm right now. Add Melky and a good Single A prospect. That’s it. I think lunacy to give up Cano. Lunacy to give up two of the young arms we like. Focus on getting Andy back, woo him to no end, whatever more it takes. And get focused on the 8th inning relief. In fact Joba should be protected at all costs now , not for starting , but for setting up- heir apparent to MO. We can patch up the back of the rotation. Someone like Silva is out there too.
79 days till pitchers and catchers!!
79 and counting, plus next week is the winter meetings.
I can’t do owners, but I’ll give it shot on the Gm’s – Cash, Theo, Jp, Mcphail, Friedman, Williams, Ryan is gone in Minny, Shapiro, Moore, Dombrowski, Stoneman is gone in LA, Beane, Texas has a young guy, and Bavasi in the AL.
Minya, Wade, Shurholtz is gone in Atl, Krivlisky, Jocketty, Colletti, Saben, the guy from Boston is in Zona, the that was in Cincy is now with the Nationals, Mclane used to be with the Astros, I should know the Cubs but I can’t remember.
Good luck with the rest.
“But that is what makes our sport the best. It never goes out of season. They just stop the games for a few months.”
This brought a huge smile to my face—so true!
My thought process:
Santana is the best pitcher in baseball, lefthanded and still in his prime, the Yankees need to attempt to trade for him.
Pitching is the most important team component. The pitcher controls the game, and Hughes and Joba have both shown promise. Given the dearth of young pitching and fact that they are young and cheap, you have to keep them. They are non-starters for any trade.
I would trade Cano (only for Santana). He’s a great player, young and improving, just the player the Twins would want. Still, I don’t think he has the plate discipline to be a great number 3 hitter, and he doesn’t grind out enough at bats. He can be pitched to. Again, I’d like to keep him, but for Santana, he’s the player I’d start a package with.
Sign Loretta to play Second. He’s solid and a right that will help balance the line-up. The Yanks will still score plenty of runs. Age in the starting line-up is not as big a deal as age in the rotation. Start with Cano and Horne, add Melky, and I’d do the deal. I’d try to avoid adding Kennedy if I’m giving up Cano, as I’d like to keep him. Your rotation is set for years to come with Santana, Wang, Hughes and Joba.
Johann MLB stats at age 22 aftee 2 seasons.
3-3 130 innings pitched 5.80 ERA
Phil still has only half of those innings under his belt and a much better era (4.50 era)so far. He’ll have to be horrible next year to surpass that 5.80/
All i hope is the Yanks play their hand strong and hope Minny blinks into taking IPK, Melky, Clippard, McCutchen and maybe Betemit and maybe farnsie with us picking up half of his pay.
Is that a retarded deal? too litttle? I can dream can’t I? there have been more lopsided deals made in history. Heres hoping for some luck.
Another thing about baseball vs the NFL/NBA?NHL is baseball remembers its past more. Abraham and other writers are talking about the Hall of Fame voting. It is always a big topic for writers, talk show hosts and internet boards. There is very little talk about the other three sports about who should be enshrined (or embalmed as Casey Stengel said. Or should have said).
I heard something that was somewhat disturbing and confusing this evening driving home on XM175.
The rpoert was that the Mets are saying that unless they can have a negotiating window with sanata for a long term deal they are not interested and that they Twins have said they cannot put this in the/a deal
I always assumed that this would HAVE to be part of the deal as why would you give away such high level prospects for a one year rental. I also see from the Twin point of view that it lessens their barganing position if they grant the window BUT I say if the Twins wont allow a team to negotiate before the trade is finalized then walk away and wait for Free agency at the end of the year.
Than the Yankees should walk away as well. There is no way you trade 3 propects without having a 72 hour window. That would be crazy. No team should agree to trade with them. Let them lose him at the end of 08 and only get a draft pick.
Santana has the Twinkies by the short ones with his no trade. He can state where he wants to play, period.
The Twins can either
(1) accept what the team he wants to go to offers, or
(2) wait until he hits free agency, and get the draft picks.
The Twins have no power in this negotiation. None.
I’m sure Greenberg has gone over this with him ad nausuem. Plus, since the Twins would not meet his financial demands, he owes them nothing.
I’d say the Yankees are looking pretty good right now, if Johan really wants the Yankees, and the Twins have likely figured this out. Any trade would be a face-saving manuever at this point. Remember, the key thing here is that Santana is completely calling the shots—this isn’t a typical trade.
My guess is that the Yankees will give the Twins the equivalent of the two draft picks, at a more mature level, plus one of the AAA or AA studs.
Maybe AJax plus Horne/IPK plus Igawa (who they can then spin to the Pads). Call me a fool, but if Johan really wants NY, something like this may get it done.
Now if Johan wants Boston or Angels or Mets, that’s another story. But a chance to be a Yankee in the perfect park for him (1.17 ERA) may trump everything else.
Twins would be foolish to not grant a negotiation window to any team willing to trade 3 players.
Twins have to if they want to trade Santana he has a no-trade clause.
Peter,
Could not agree with you more on this one. Why the heck would anyone want to give up so easy on a 21 year old kid, Hughes, that was hyped beyond belief and in my mind started to come into his own at the end. This kid has some tremendous upside. I’m okay with giving up Melky, Ian Kennedy (who I think is a heady pitcher), Alan Horne and other prospects but make sure you hang on to Jackson and Tabata. Nuff said.
Pete –
Baseball is a 365 game sport in the NORTHEAST, as you’d notice driving from Boston to NY.
I would change what you wrote:
“don’t tell me baseball is a dying sport or that football has replaced it in the hearts and mind of Americans (in the northeast)”
I love baseball (and hardly watch football or any other sport), but it’s easy to get into when your team is consistently good (as they tend to be in NY and Boston). I would still call “America” a football nation (college and/or pro). If your trip took you out of the northeast, I think you’d hear much different chatter on the radio (conservative talk aside).
Agree that 365 baseball talk is unique mainly to Northeast. A guest host from Florida on WFAN last year said he could never “get away” with talking so much about baseball on his Florida station. Other markets and national shows focus a lot on football including college football. Mike and Chris’ radio/YES show being simulcast from 3-6P in Tampa was good news in part because those 2 love to talk about baseball. They’ll give the required football talk, but maybe a few more people in Florida will get interested in baseball.
I think we can make the deal with Kennedy using Melky and two other prospects. I really think we can hold onto Hughes and Cano.
I think it would be crazy to trade Cano who’s already one of the top second basemen in the game. This is someone who’ll be in the mix for batting champ for the next ten years, hits lefties, has extra base power, and plays a position where you don’t see too many good hitters.
On pitchers, a tough call, especially with the fragility of arms in general. Which would you rather have: one proven terrific arm or two or three arms that have shown the same potential and are younger but less proven? Any could go tomorrow. Don Gullett was just as overpowering as Santana and younger, and his arm went after one year. Plus there is the NY factor—does anyone else recall a very tough 28-year-old pitcher named Javy Vasquez?
Let’s also keep in mind that Cashman has shown that he’s a very good poker player over the years. His style is patience and calm, waiting for the best time to strike. Sometimes he gets beaten to the punch by a wild move, like the Sox with Dice-K, but it’s hard to criticize him for that one.
We also don’t know what the Sox are offering, but for them to make an offer comparable to the ones people are talking about here, they would have to include Pedroia AND Ellsbury to be comparable to Cano PLUS Buchholz to be comparable to one of our three top pitching prispects. I wish Lester a long, happy and successful life and baseball career, but his trade value simply isn’t there given his medical history. Coco Crisp has negative value as he was beaten out by Ellsbury and the Sox are looking to dump his salary. Frankly, after overpaying for Dice-K, and with a World Champion team already there, are the Sox really primed to pay Santana top dollar unless they can pick him up cheap?
I’m not suggesting that we can get Santana for CJ Henry, but timing may well dictate the best possible price for him—and thus the decision whether to trade or not. And maybe the best outcome would be for him to end up with the Dodgers.
Good thing the weather here in the north has been kinda mild (so far) cause the HOT-STOVE is boiling! Makes for an interesting post-baseball season until ST.
BASEBALL HOTSTOVE (IF YOU ROOT FOR THE LARGE MARKET TEAMS)
This is true Pete. Baseball is our Past Time. Football is a militaristic war game for short attentioned meat eaters. Not that I don’t enjoy a good playoff game or super bowl, that isn’t a rout, but geez why does it take 3 &1/2 hours to play a 1 hour game. Must be the great commercials. Isn’t that what they play up for each super bowl, the ads? Baseball is a more leisurely, peaceful event, a more conversational passing of time. Hence, the American pasttime.
Really we shouldn’t just be concerned with saving Hughes, we should save the big three!
http://riveraveblues.com/2007/11/28/get-your-save-the-big-three-t-shirts/