The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Another day, another round of rumors

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Nov 29, 2007 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

A few non-Santana items for you:

Along with Ron Mahay, LaTroy Hawkins is on the radar for the Yankees. They also want to bring Luis Vizcaino back. There also seems to be hope that a new pitching coach and manager can revitalize Krazy Kyle Farnsworth. Good luck with that.

There is a market, believe it or not, for Kei Igawa. But until the Yankees see what happens with Andy Pettitte and Santana, they want to hang on to the lefty.

As for Santana:

The Mets are not in this. They are not trading Jose Reyes and his team-friendly deal. Mike Pelfrey and Phil Humber are not getting it done.

I have no evidence of this yet, but the Red Sox are probably in this only to make it hurt for the Yankees. Great as Santana is, do they really want to add a $20 million starter? Pitching is not an issue for them.

The Yankees are more likely competing with Anaheim or Seattle or maybe the Dodgers.

This idea to chase Danny Haren instead of Santana makes some sense in that Haren is signed. But Billy Beane would make it hurt.

Do you realize that Eric Duncan was left unprotected for the Rule 5 Draft? I’d be surprised if anybody takes him. As all this Santana stuff swirls, it’s a lesson on placing too much value on your own prospects. None us can be sure that any of these kids, including Joba Chamberlain, will be good moving forward.

That said, I don’t trade Phil Hughes. I’ll take 15 wins and 175 innings for $400,000 than 18 wins and 215 innings for $20 million.

Finally, there is talk that Hank Steinbrenner will go to the Winter Meetings at some point.

————

The Yankees will (finally) announce their deal with Jorge Posada today. Presumably Brian Cashman will emerge and take questions on the conference call.

Comments

comments

 
 

Advertisement

346 Responses to “Another day, another round of rumors”

  1. jay destro November 29th, 2007 at 11:44 am

    i can haz a johan?

  2. Jeff NJ November 29th, 2007 at 11:45 am

    Wow Peter are you saying Cashman is not at the winter meetings?

  3. Max Fischer November 29th, 2007 at 11:46 am

    Seattle might trade for Santana? Seriously?

  4. Manny November 29th, 2007 at 11:47 am

    http://www.twincities.com/ci_7.....ost_viewed

    the sox are supposedly in the lead for Santana, if they get him without giving Ellsbury nor Buchholz, this is gonna suck, as much as i like Hugues, maybe we should trade him.

  5. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 29th, 2007 at 11:47 am

    I can haz a Phil Hughes?

  6. Shamus November 29th, 2007 at 11:47 am

    There’s a baseball team in Seattle ? I’ll be damned…

  7. Shamus November 29th, 2007 at 11:49 am

    Manny– Don’t believe that Pioneer Press crap. Go to Pete’s last entry, and read the comments section from about 8 am until 9 am…

    I was worried too when I first saw that… Don’t worry!!!

  8. Irabu's Son November 29th, 2007 at 11:49 am

    Shamus,

    Yeah.. they’ve got uniforms and everything! It’s really great!

  9. Jake November 29th, 2007 at 11:50 am

    Maybe Cashman, while undoubtedly working hard, is on a quasi-vacation. Dude deserves it. He has probably already lost 10-15 years off his lifespan working for the Steinbrenners. High stress atmosphere and I wouldn’t be surprised if he takes shots of generic vodka between innings to cope with the darkness.

  10. Christopher November 29th, 2007 at 11:50 am

    What about the rumors that Nathan will be included in the deal for Santana and the Yankees will give up Mark Melancon? I hope they are not true.

  11. J-Dawg November 29th, 2007 at 11:51 am

    That will really get interesting if Hank decides to come to the Winter Meetings. Hank making an appearance combined with Cashman’s hiding means that something major will go down. I just hope that whatever happens doesn’t cost the Yankees the services of Phil Hughes. I also need to go to Nashville next week to see what’s happening. It won’t be any trouble for me to go at all. :)

  12. Jake November 29th, 2007 at 11:51 am

    Where is the Bobcat?

    I wonder if that guy is for real.

    Having said that, since Peter has been off the radar, I’ll take whatever juicy rumor material I can find.

  13. TurnTwo November 29th, 2007 at 11:53 am

    i actually just commented that in the earlier posting… I was surprised the Mariners have been as quiet as they’ve been with the Johan sweepstakes. They have the prospects to make a deal work, and have a big company behind the team, Nintendo, that can afford him if they want.

    They’ve got King Felix at the top… it would be as potent a 1-2 as if Johan went to Boston, just that we wouldnt see the team as much.

    and with Anaheim making moves to distance themselves in the division, a non-move by Seattle could seal their fate before the season starts.

    It doesnt surprise me that there is a market for Igawa, being as though he’s signed to such a market-friendly deal. he’s not a Dice-K, but he is a pretty good back of the rotation option, especially in some of the pitcher parks in the NL.

    I just hope Cashman stays the course… no Joba and no Hughes.

  14. John in Ohio November 29th, 2007 at 11:54 am

    Man Pete…..Ichiro was seriously considering moving to the Yankees after his deal with Seattle? Wow. He’s a great, great player. Probably could have worked about 30 HRs into his .350 BA, too, in Yankee Stadium. I wonder how many runs he’d have scored in that line-up??

  15. rodg12 November 29th, 2007 at 11:54 am

    Cashman’s in full bore stealth/ninja mode right now….wheeling and dealing with the Twins and other teams trying to land us the biggest prizes left this offseason.

  16. Shamus November 29th, 2007 at 11:54 am

    Manny– correction, read last post comments from 8:48 am until just past 9:30 am.

    Looks liek ol’ Shooter Charley Walters wasn’t shooting from his hip on that one, but more like from his arse.

    ON ANOTHER NOTE—————-

    Pete, I was against it from the beginning, but after someone imprsonated me last night and made crude comments to Jen Hip Hip Jorge, I am all for registration on this site.

    That, and it will prob keep most of the Idiots outta here…

    To quote William Wallace (kind of…)

    “You can tell my enemies, they can make me register… BUT THEY’LL NEVER TAKE AWAY OUR BLOG !!!!”

  17. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge November 29th, 2007 at 11:56 am

    Igawa stinks, he should have no bearing on what happens with Andy. If someone offers a decent package you do it. Andy is a High #2 Igawa is a #6.

  18. gayle November 29th, 2007 at 11:56 am

    Speaking of Rule 5 draft are there any other suprises from o ther teams on those that were left unprotected and also where do the Yanks draft in the rule 5. Not that I expect anything out ofit but you never know.

  19. Dan November 29th, 2007 at 11:56 am

    I’m kind of upset that Duncan was not included on the 40-man…I just wrote a feature article for pinstripes plus magazine about him-and it appears as though he could get picked up by another team. All that work for nothin :(

    Anyway, I still think that the Yanks are in the lead for Santana, plain and simple. They have more to offer the Twins (minus the Dodgers) and the money to pay for him. Throw in the fact that Santana has supposedly stated that he wants to pitch in New York-and well, you may have yourself a perfect match.

    If only the Yanks could hang onto Hughes-that would be perfect.

  20. ~Adam. November 29th, 2007 at 11:57 am

    I say if they have to have Hughes, they have to have Farnsworth too.

  21. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge November 29th, 2007 at 11:57 am

    edit button please. Andy should have no bearing on what happens with Kei.

  22. mel November 29th, 2007 at 12:00 pm

    ~Adam,

    That could be a deal breaker for Minny. Just kidding, I still see a glimmer of hope with Farnsy.

    And as for Igawa, I think he’ll be better in his second year in the league.

    I love all the Yankees. :)

  23. Drew November 29th, 2007 at 12:02 pm

    Mahay, Hawkins…garbage…just not enough quality relievers out there.

  24. hmmm November 29th, 2007 at 12:02 pm

    no one is going to pick up Eric Duncan and keep him on their 25 man roster for the entire season. what would be the point? he can’t hit and he can’t field.

    i hope he breaks out this year and things click, but he is light years from the majors.

  25. J-Dawg November 29th, 2007 at 12:03 pm

    Maybe Kei Igawa will be better next year now that he knows what to expect from Major League hitters. He needs to make the necessary adjustments such as coming inside and to stop throwing meatballs when he has two strikes on a hitter. He could be useful if he gets his location on the mark. He’s really a wild card at this point.

  26. TurnTwo November 29th, 2007 at 12:05 pm

    With the depth the Yankees have, even after a Johan deal, Igawa to me is a non-factor. If they can move him to get a positional prospect, I’d make the deal regardless of what happens with Johan or Pettitte.

  27. KLev November 29th, 2007 at 12:06 pm

    Pete: agree with you on all fronts. If Phil Franchise is good for 13-15 wins, why blow all that cake on Santana. Also agree re Red Sox. More important than that they don’t need another pitcher is that what do they do with Beckett when his contract is up if Santana is already making $22 mil (plus). As with the Yanks, there is a limit to the number of $20 mil guys you can handle on a roster.

    To that last point: right now, the Yanks have (or will have) $168 million locked up in ten guys. You add Santana’s $22 mils (plus) you’re talking $190 for eleven guys. That’s absurd.

    1. Giambi $23
    2. Jeter $21
    3. ARod $27
    4. Mussina $11
    5. Jorge $13
    6. Mo $15
    7. Pettitte $16
    8. Abreu $16
    9. Matsui $13
    10. Damon $13

  28. Tommy November 29th, 2007 at 12:06 pm

    Joe G has mentioned Farnsworth more than once since being hired. Bsaically the only specific mention he’s made of the current team.
    Perhaps there is hope!

  29. Shamus November 29th, 2007 at 12:06 pm

    Out for a smoke, back in a few. Got this stuff piling up too… work… You guys ever have to deal with this work crap?!??!?!

    Liquor order due !

    Wine order due !

    Back in an hour… call/text me at 207-867-5309 if anything goes down… Will be in basement of bar doing liquor inventory and counting kegs, all the while trying to catch my dishwahsers burning tree down there !! ;)

  30. Jeff NJ November 29th, 2007 at 12:07 pm

    Kei Igawa will be a fine average major league pitcher in the near future, pitching in the NL that is. He is nothing more than an emergency starter, possible Loogy for the Yankees.

  31. jimmy1138 November 29th, 2007 at 12:07 pm

    Of course there’s a market for Igawa. He’s been an ace pitcher in Japan, he’s got strikeout potential and he’s had some games that were not completely awful. Some GMs out there might think they can fix this guy and dupe Cashman.

  32. Peter Rabbit November 29th, 2007 at 12:07 pm

    I’m glad we’re hanging onto Farnsworth. I know he’s been underpeforming, but we all see signs of greatness.

    Farnworth’s attitude is what really got him into trouble last year, and I think it could be the result of bad coaching from Guidry. I believe that Farnsworth can shine next year under Eiland.

    While I’m out defending the downtrotten, do you think the Yanks will give Pavano another shot?

    Many things have changed in the last few months. It feels like the corporate culture and attitude of the team has been reinvigorated:

    We’ve got a whole new coaching staff, crazy Hank at the helm, and A-Rod is no longer in limbo. There’s no telling how an underperformer will do using a different combination of ingredients.

  33. TurnTwo November 29th, 2007 at 12:08 pm

    KLev- you paying the bill?

    I dont understand why fans care about what the Yankees spend on the team. The ticket prices and beer prices are going to be high, regardless of if they have a $100 million payroll or a $250 million payroll.

    be grateful the owner is willing to put money back into the team to win… its something that right now Twins fans should be protesting Twins ownership for right now, as they watch their Ace get traded away.

  34. mel November 29th, 2007 at 12:09 pm

    I think the point is that worst-case scenario, if there is no Andy and no Johan then we have Wang, Moose, & the Big 3 who really can’t go 200 innings each. That means being creative until a viable solution is found (o.k. bought or traded for). That means that we’ll have to mix & match from the Rasner, Karstens, & Igawa pool of talent. Not ideal but entirely possible.

  35. Dan November 29th, 2007 at 12:10 pm

    hmmmm:

    I wouldn’t be so sure. He turned a corner late last season and improved upon his defense at first. He also hit well in the clutch and with men on, so there should be some interest in him. Plus, he has had the entire off season to rest and condition-unlike the previous two where he spent time in the AFL.

  36. Shamus November 29th, 2007 at 12:10 pm

    One last thing… you know what I like about Krazy Kyle?

    Maybe I’ve been in the bar business too long, but I love how Farnsworth isn’t afraid to fight anyone… That dud has been in some brawls in his heyday, none yet with the NYY.

    Now, he did turn his back on Jorge this year during a mound discuission, and he’s openly criticized Joe Torre, but there is a non-corporate fire in the belly of Krazy Kyle that I like…

    Call me crazy, I guess….

    Now I really am outty like an Audi… Back later…

  37. Mel (Welcome Back) November 29th, 2007 at 12:13 pm

    Dan, who are you talking about?

  38. ~Adam. November 29th, 2007 at 12:13 pm

    KLev-

    Your point is why I think the Yanks are going to package one of these guys for something. But next year Santana is owed like $13m I think. The extension takes effect for ’09. Some of those guys, Giambi, Moose, Damon are likely gone.

  39. Jake November 29th, 2007 at 12:14 pm

    Bobcat! Bobcat! Bobcat!

  40. Pete S November 29th, 2007 at 12:15 pm

    pavano cant even pitch till the end of the summer i think. but if next year he wants to start in single A and make 100 grand id give him a shot and the year after that he can head to AA for 105,000

  41. migames November 29th, 2007 at 12:15 pm

    “I’ll take 15 wins and 175 innings for $400,000″

    the only thing that is certain in that sentance is the money…as is the same with johan, but johan has proven that he can win in the major league level and stay healthy. Hughes, or Joba, or IPK have not. Thats why you make these trades.

  42. GreenBeret7 November 29th, 2007 at 12:19 pm

    Gayle, last time I looked NYY was drafting 18th. Teams with full 40 man rosters can’t draft. It may have changed in the last 5 days.

  43. KLev November 29th, 2007 at 12:19 pm

    Turn Two: wish I could be paying those kind of bills, but point is: is there no shame? As a Yank fan for more than 30 yrs, I’d like to see us win with our guys, not buying it all. Remember the 90s? We weren’t packed with big-name free agents. That binge started with Giambi, and look where it’s gotten us (reminds me of the 80s with the likes of Dave Collins and even Dave Winfield, great as he was).

    Remember, with luxury tax, amount is considerably more than just payroll.

  44. pat November 29th, 2007 at 12:20 pm

    KLev
    I understand what you’re saying but Santana for 2008 is 13 million not 22. The Yankees would work an extension so big money may not start until 2009. Also some of those you listed have deferred money so those numbers go down somewhat.

    Yankees also save 30% revenue sharing money because of the stadium being built so instead of helping other teams pay for players next year, they can use it to pay their own players.

  45. Mike R. November 29th, 2007 at 12:21 pm

    Rich – Hughes was the only Yankee pitcher with a playoff win this year.

  46. Dan November 29th, 2007 at 12:21 pm

    Mel:

    I’m answering hmmmm’s comments about Eric Duncan

  47. Jake November 29th, 2007 at 12:24 pm

    Bobcat! Bobcat! Bobcat!

  48. TurnTwo November 29th, 2007 at 12:25 pm

    again, i’m really not interested in the payroll. the only way i figure people really care about the specifics of payroll is because they care about fans of other teams who point it out to be annoying, and i could care less about what other fans think about the yankees’ spending habits.

    i understand that the core of the team was made up of homegrown players, and there is a certain feeling of pride associated with being able to say that… but reality is that you use the farm system to develop talent to help you at the mlb level, as well as help you obtain pieces to build around your current team to take you to the next level.

    SJ44 explained this the other day i think perfectly.

  49. Felipe from Brazil November 29th, 2007 at 12:26 pm

    hey Shamus,
    I said the same thing a few months ago about Krazy Kyle… that we should had a brawler specialist. to come out of the bullpen and start a fight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    At the time I posted a couple of awesome brawl videos with him…

  50. ~Adam. November 29th, 2007 at 12:27 pm

    KLev-

    Also, these are different times though. That Yanks can spend a lot, they just need to spend wisely.

    And beginning ’09 the Yanks have a new beautiful stadium with all those high priced luxury boxes that all those wall streeters are going to buy up. Plus the YES network. Plus if they’re looking for a little extra, sell the naming rights for a cool hundred million.

    I don’t think they’ll be hurting for cash, at least as long as they’re the NEW YORK Yankees.

  51. ~Adam. November 29th, 2007 at 12:29 pm

    KLEV-

    If anything, I think the Yanks might blow everyone else out of the water financially, that MLB will have to do something along the lines of the NBA like a soft cap and equal dollar values in trades.

  52. SJ44 November 29th, 2007 at 12:29 pm

    Several points…..

    1. Its dangerous ground to predict 15 wins from Phil Hughes, or any young pitcher, for that matter.

    Dice-K, a guy who certainly came more heralded, and is way more experienced than Hughes, barely got to 15 wins on a World Championship team.

    Its awfully tough to predict what young pitchers will do. To say Hughes will have a season next year close to Santana is Rebecca-type optimism times ten.

    That’s a lot of pressure to put on a kid who has yet to show he can stay healthy for an entire professional season.

    As much potential as Hughes possesses, he can’t be the guy that stands between the Yankees getting Santana. Clearly, Cashman would rather not include him in the deal. However, if it reaches the point where its Hughes or no deal, you have to make that deal.

    2. Re: Farnsworth, you have to give Girardi/Eiland the shot. If he thinks he can “fix” him, you try it. If it doesn’t work out, he can be dealt at the deadline. You can’t teach 98 with a 90 MPH slider. Who knows, maybe the combo of a new manager and pitching coach, coupled with him being in the final year of his contract, propels him to have a salary drive-type year.

    If the Yankees decided to deal him now, all they would be doing is paying another team for that privlidge since nobody was assuming his entire contract.

    By the trade deadline in ’08, his contract is much more managable for a team to take on if they chose to deal him.

    3. Ignore the Pioneer Press story. Its nonsense.

  53. Thrillington November 29th, 2007 at 12:31 pm

    I don’t think Kyle Farnsworth is a lost cause. I think Gator and Torre were probably not a good match for him, and I’d like to see what Girardi might be able to do with him. Let’s not forget how in the LDS in 1995, Showalter mismanaged the bullpen, practically sitting Wetteland. And the combination of Rivera to Wetteland worked very well the following year.

    I am not being revisionist on Wetteland. He wasn’t called “Zantac John” for nothing, but they made the combination–with Nelson as well, mind you–work for the best and I believe the same could be possible with Kyle.

    Regarding Santana, I hate this possible trade more and more each day. I respect and believe what Pete says about prospects. And I appreciate what he says about gladly taking 15 wins and 175 innings over 18 wins and 200 innings.

    Personally, I believe he might very well end up with the Dodgers. He would have much more longevity in the NL and they’ve got the money and the players to make this work.

  54. LathamJoe November 29th, 2007 at 12:32 pm

    “That said, I don’t trade Phil Hughes. I’ll take 15 wins and 175 innings for $400,000 than 18 wins and 215 innings for $20 million.”

    Peter:
    On what basis would you project 18 wins, pitching for the best offense in baseball and half your games in a “lefthander” friendly Yankee Stadium?? And not even mentioning the value of having Santana as the No. one pitcher during Post Season!

    Wang has won 19 games for two straight years with the Yankees – Santana will win less???

  55. Matt November 29th, 2007 at 12:32 pm

    Hey guys, I’m a huge Twins fan I thought I’d join the convo with you guys…

    Bobcat I was wondering who are the potential players in a Joe Nathan trade…

  56. Matt November 29th, 2007 at 12:33 pm

    And by players I mean teams LOL…prolly could have phrased that better…

  57. gianthinker November 29th, 2007 at 12:33 pm

    I wonder if Igawa will be included in a Santana trade. They need MLB ready talent right? They’ll be looking for pitching right? Why not a Igawa, Kennedy, Melky (plus lower prospect or two) package? I would actually think that would look pretty good to the Twins. Igawa only makes $4 mill a year so he’d fit their price range.

  58. Thrillington November 29th, 2007 at 12:33 pm

    Speaking of the the 1995 ALDS, that had to be one of the best baseball series I have ever seen (with the wrong ending, of course).

    Does anyone know if all five games exist anywhere on DVD? Would love to re-watch them in their completion if possible.

  59. migames November 29th, 2007 at 12:35 pm

    “Speaking of the the 1995 ALDS, that had to be one of the best baseball series I have ever seen (with the wrong ending, of course).

    Does anyone know if all five games exist anywhere on DVD? Would love to re-watch them in their completion if possible.”

    Im happy with the 1st two games, i could care less for the other games

  60. pat November 29th, 2007 at 12:35 pm

    Matt

    Bobcat said NL Central but couldn’t get specific. We guessed Brewers and Cubs.

  61. Mike R. November 29th, 2007 at 12:35 pm

    Matt – We are not accepting new applicants. This is a very exclusive clu. I kindly ask you to leave sir. :D I’m kidding of course. Bobcat has mentioned that the most probable destination for Nathan is the NL Central. Two teams that have the position players available that the Twins covet.

  62. Joba the Great November 29th, 2007 at 12:35 pm

    I still think there is a false market out there for Santana, as none of the teams linked to him are interested in giving the prospects the Twins want (Ellsbury being the most obvious). The Yankees are bidding against themselves. So, how can Cashman turn in his favor? Openly initiate serious talks for Haren. If the Twins won’t take a package topped by IPK, maybe the A’s will.

    At the very least, the appearance of another prime pitching target will call the Twins’ hand and bring this to a head. Cashman has a little more power in this situation than at first meets the eye.

  63. Wolf In Pinstripes November 29th, 2007 at 12:35 pm

    SJ – totally agreed on your point #2.

    I would like to think that Farnsworth is one of those guys that could benefit from having Eiland around to iron things out with him.

  64. SJ44 November 29th, 2007 at 12:35 pm

    Sometimes, folks have revisionist history when they look back on the Dynasty Era.

    Yes, that era had homegrown players such as Bernie, Jeter, Pettitte, Mo, and Posada.

    They also had guys like O’Neill, Tino, Brosius, Knoblauch, Justice, Clemens, Stanton, Nelson, etc, who were acquired via trade. Often using hyped propsects to make those deals.

    Add to it the FA acquisitions and you had the makings of a dominant team.

    That’s how you build teams. With a mix of players.

    Nobody who competes these days do only with homegrown players.

    The Yankees build a farm system to amass talent. Some of it helps the parent team. Others are packaged in the right deals for the right players.

    When you have a 200 million dollar payroll, a new stadium on the horizon, and the core of your team are veterans, you aren’t going to amass an “all farm team” ballclub.

    Just not how you build a winner.

    If the Yankees acquire Santana, they have enough depth in the system to absorb the loss incurred to get him. They will also have the best pitcher in baseball, still under 30 years old, on their roster.

    Can’t ask for much more than that.

  65. ~Adam. November 29th, 2007 at 12:35 pm

    Matt-
    Bobcat was saying NL Central. Think Cubs.

  66. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") November 29th, 2007 at 12:36 pm

    where the hell is Bobcat today ?

  67. hmmm November 29th, 2007 at 12:38 pm

    “I wouldn’t be so sure. He turned a corner late last season and improved upon his defense at first. He also hit well in the clutch and with men on, so there should be some interest in him. Plus, he has had the entire off season to rest and condition-unlike the previous two where he spent time in the AFL.”

    do you really see a team carrying him on their 25 man roster for the entire season?

    he hit .241/.32/.389 last year in AAA playing 1B.
    i just don’t see it.

    even if someone selects him, i’d still expect to see him back with the yankees by the end of the season when that team needs his roster spot.

  68. Blargh November 29th, 2007 at 12:38 pm

    Perhaps a busy work day for Bobcat?
    Of course, I’m getting impatient about the movement of Joe Nathan xP

  69. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge November 29th, 2007 at 12:38 pm

    Correct me if i’m wrong, the difference is everyone thinks highly of the prospects, not just the Yankees pr machine hyping them.

  70. CLIFTON PARK,NY JEFF November 29th, 2007 at 12:38 pm

    MAYBE WE HAVEN’T HEARD FROM BOBCZT because his office is real busy dealing with trades?

  71. gayle November 29th, 2007 at 12:39 pm

    Agree with the Girardi and Farnsworth thing. Girardi went so far as to say that it his personal project this year. It is not like Farnsy could do any worse and he certainly has done better. We know that they had a relationship when Girardi was in Chicago.

  72. gargoyle November 29th, 2007 at 12:39 pm

    Hank needs a muzzle.

    Peter is right – the Red Sox have no real interest in Santana.

  73. CLIFTON PARK,NY JEFF November 29th, 2007 at 12:40 pm

    Oops, Bobcat,sorry for typo

  74. Phil November 29th, 2007 at 12:41 pm

    It would be a massive mistake to trade Phil Hughes, and it really doesn’t look like the Twins have the leverage to make it happen. Cash is not on vacation.

  75. jorge November 29th, 2007 at 12:42 pm

    As someone mentioned pavano, my thought process is that if they dont release him, then they should send him to A ball when he is ready to pitch and make him play down there, taking long bus rides and staying at crappy motels.

    As far as bobcat, what happens if you find out bocat is a girl? will you believe the rumors still or just blow it off as gossip, which is exactly what it is, made up gossip from one person. get your heads on straight people.

  76. alvaro espinoza November 29th, 2007 at 12:43 pm

    can’t believe i’m suggesting this, but any thoughts on signing farns to a 2-year extension on the cheap?

    i think he’s worth the gamble considering how far his value has dropped. as an earlier poster commented, you don’t teach a 98mph fastball and 90mph curve. for all of his quirks and blowups, he’s still got the physical tools of a top-flight setup guy.

  77. ET2012 November 29th, 2007 at 12:43 pm

    Many of you may not going to agree with I am about to say, but I believe the Yankees should be willing to give Minn. a package of Hughes/Cabrera/A. Gonzales or Betemit. It makes more sense for the Yanks to keep IPK than Hughes for 2008 for a couple of reasons:

    First, If you look at their minor league stats, their are pretty close. In the majors, IPK is more effective with his pitch count than Hughes. If you look at the their stats this year, it took IPK 7 innings to reach a pitch count in the middle 90’s, whereas Hughes with few exceptions had thrown 95 pitches by the 5th.

    Second, IPK has a ceiling for 2008 of 175 innings, as compared to Hughes’ 150. With Hughes tendency to throw that many pitches per inning, his help to the Yanks in 2008 will be indeed, very limited.

    Also, by including Hughes in the package, the Yankees should not have to fork out any other top pitching prospect for Santana, thus preserving their deep blue chip pitching prospects for themselves after 2008.

    Basically, they would be trading our 2nd best pitcher (Hughes) for a great lefty pitcher (Santana), Melky and a minor leaguer. Melky is replaceable by FA Rowand. CF would not suffer a decline, and in 2009 Jackson and Tabata would be ready to join the big leagues alongside of Rowand.

    So basically, if this package goes through, it would give the Yanks a rotation of:

    Santana
    Wang
    Mussina
    Pettite?
    Joba
    IPK

    The Yanks would still have a slew of top blue chip pitchers left over: Horne, Brackman, Sanchez and Betances. However, if Hughes is offered in the package, Minn. SHOULD NOT get any other significant pitching prospect.

  78. kunaldo November 29th, 2007 at 12:44 pm

    it’s a dangerous game to acquire/keep pitchers based on their wins! santana will pitch at an elite level with an ERA around 3 or so, and a WHIP around 1.00…which is AWESOME for a starter

    hughes may or may not do that….who knows….and who knows if he can handle the 220+ IP that santana does every year…

    And if wang can win 19 games on the yanks, santana will do 20+ with his eyes closed, if you really can’t let wins out of your head.

  79. kunaldo November 29th, 2007 at 12:46 pm

    agree with keeping farny…as much as he pissed me off last year…he was dominant towards the end of the year…maybe his mechanics need tweaking?

  80. ~Adam. November 29th, 2007 at 12:48 pm

    Now I’m thinking of how much money the Yanks can make starting ’09. All they have to do is put a winning team on the feild and they break the bank.

    The Yankees as a brand, are like Nike, Coca Cola… probably better. They put their logo on it, and you pay a premium. Luxury boxes, advertising dollars, sponsorships, their own network that also shows an NBA team moving to Brooklyn in the coming years. Think of how expensive it is just being a fan, lol.

    Their investment in AROD is an investment in their brand. Like Babe Ruth, DiMaggio, Mantle… AROD could be making hte Yanks money long after he’s gone. $300m in the long run is chump change.

    They won’t be hurting for money. The payroll is barely an issue as long as they’re playing by the rules. Why not maximize their advantage?

  81. The Dude November 29th, 2007 at 12:49 pm

    Ugh…Mahay and Hawkins. They make Vizcaino look like some big prize.

    Maybe it’s wise to make this a blockbuster and try for Joe Nathan, too?

  82. Mike in SF November 29th, 2007 at 12:50 pm

    SJ-

    Thanks for setting Brian (Sox Fan) straight. It’s one thing if you chat up a Sox fan at a bar, its another thing if you pursue your rivals’ chatrooms.

    Part of the reason I frequent this board is the quality of the posts. I have a good feeling the majority of the posters here would not waste their time by talking smack on a Mets/Red Sox/Orioles/etc board.

    I’m sure there are many that value your insight like myself. If the quality of this board goes into the gutter (it gets close sometimes), the quality of the info here will be missed.

    Cheers

  83. sunny615 November 29th, 2007 at 12:50 pm

    I can’t think of a team that would want an Eric Duncan on their team.

  84. ND Yank November 29th, 2007 at 12:51 pm

    Eric Duncan is still young and could still develop, but is there any chance that somebody picks him in the Rule 5 and keeps him on their ML roster in 2008? I doubt it.

  85. Bill November 29th, 2007 at 12:53 pm

    If you believe as Pete does that Santana would win 18 games for NY next year and Hughes would win 15 games then not trading Hughes for Santana makes sense. I’d be surprised if Santana won less than 22 for NY provided he stayed healthy and he always has. Santana is a stud – the best pitcher of his generation. I don’t doubt for a minute that the Redsox are serious in their attempts to acquire Santana, any team that has the prospects to deal and the financial resources to resign him should be serious regardless of what current pitchers they have. Haren is a very good young starting pitcher but he’s not in Santana’s league. No one is. And Haren would cost just as much to acquire given the extra year he’s under contract.

  86. The Bronx Stop November 29th, 2007 at 12:54 pm

    The Haren trade would hurt, but not as bad as a Johan Santana trade in terms of prospects+salary. Right on Pete. Tell this to Cash when you see him at the Winter Meetings.

  87. ~Adam. November 29th, 2007 at 12:54 pm

    ET 2012-

    I don’t think if Hughes goes they get anything else signifigant, including Melky.

  88. SJ44 November 29th, 2007 at 12:56 pm

    I honestly don’t have a problem with Red Sox fans.

    I hate though, one coming on and calling the owner of the Yankees a “buffoon” based on nothing.

    Especially, when he comes on and talks about just wanting to be “one of the guys” talking baseball.

    Believe me, I know both organizations, and people in them, very well.

    Hank Steinbrenner is FAR from a buffoon and Theo Epstein (whom I like a lot) doesn’t have nearly the power folks think he has up there.

    One quick example. Theo wanted no part of Eric Gagne. That was strictly a Lucchino-Boras (as was JD Drew) production.

    When Theo went to John Henry and voiced his objection, he was told he was outvoted on this one. Not exactly the “autonomy on all players moves” that was said in the post that ticked me off.

    Both teams have their guys in the organization who, how shall I say this, are a bit smarmy.

    However, Hank Steinbrenner isn’t one of those guys.

    Somebody comes on the blog and spouts that nonsense, they better be willing to back it up. If not, they are going to get slammed.

  89. Mitchell's Eleven November 29th, 2007 at 12:56 pm

    There’s two types of “keep the youngsters” posters. There’s those who want to keep the youngsters at all costs, and those who have known all along that Cashman has building the system, not only to keep some, but to use others as pieces.

    Knowing that there’s guys who are going to, in the end, be pieces, I still cringe at the thought of Hughes being one of those pieces. I agree with SJ that 15 wins and 180 innings next year are an optimistic projection, but the guy who we saw the flashes of brilliance we saw last year from doesn’t make such a prediction that outlandish. Optimistic? Yes. Outlandish? No.

    Bobcat is right in that we can absorb the blow and, hey, having two rookies as highly rated as Joba and IPK in the rotation, and that just being the start of what we’ve got in the minors, is still beyond impressive. I would still hate to be Yankees facing Hughes a few years from now.

    Hopefully, quantity of A- players wins out here.

  90. GreenBeret7 November 29th, 2007 at 12:57 pm

    Teams like Houston, Washington, Florida, KC, even Texas are going nowhere and have nothing to lose by keeping Eric Duncan on the team. Even St. Louis has a spot for him.

  91. SJ44 November 29th, 2007 at 12:58 pm

    It will cost more to acquire Haren than Santana.

    Two reasons:

    1. Billy Beane. He doesn’t make charitable trades.

    2. Haren’s contract is reasonable. Meaning, more teams will be involved and that jacks up the price.

  92. mel November 29th, 2007 at 12:58 pm

    ~Adam,

    You may have a point there. 3 or 4 of Yankees prospects/players who have risen through and succeeded in the Yankee system would be plenty. If we truly are the only players (IF) and the Yankee picks are low, then Minny may go for the volume of good, good players than 1 or 2 great, great players.

  93. ET2012 November 29th, 2007 at 12:59 pm

    Adam-

    That could well be, especially now that Minn. just got Delmon and another outfielder from TB. That may be what BC is attempting to do. If he can get this done, he should.

  94. Matt November 29th, 2007 at 1:00 pm

    There were rumors of the Twins trying to acquire Scott Rolen a couple weeks back…The thing was the Twins were trying to get the Cards to absorb some (actually most) of the money from Rolen’s contract…maybe there is a Nathan for Rolen deal in the works?…Even though they have Isringhausen it could be them just blocking a deal from the other teams…Rolen would be a great veteran for this young twins team…otherwise I’d love to see Felix Pie, JJ Hardy or Hunter Pence (

  95. migames November 29th, 2007 at 1:00 pm

    someone tell the buffon…i mean, hank:
    http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBI.....index.html

    ;)

  96. Mitchell's Eleven November 29th, 2007 at 1:01 pm

    SJ – who’s to say Smith and Billy Beane covet the same players, though? I don’t 100% agree with you on that.

  97. The Bronx Stop November 29th, 2007 at 1:01 pm

    SJ-
    Explain more for me.

  98. mel November 29th, 2007 at 1:02 pm

    Yankees made a big announcement today. They’ve signed veteran catcher Jorge Posada. Wow. That came out of nowhere. lol.

  99. Shamus November 29th, 2007 at 1:03 pm

    I’m back!

    And I kind of like the points ET2012 just made…

    By trading Hughes, our second best top pitcher (behind Joba, presumably), plus Melky and a second tier minor leaguer (take your pick, Tabata/Gardner/Jackson/Horne/Melacon), it would:

    A) Be by far the best offer to Minn,

    B) Give the NYY in 2008 a starting ro of Johan, Wang, Joba, Moose, IPK with APettitte possibly in the fold, and with reserves in Karstens and Igawa, if the you-know-what hits the fan again injury-wise like it did last year early on,

    C) And if they could feasilby get Rowand, or heck, even Cameron or Andruw for low years and high cash, then the void of Melky is filled by a defensively capable CF allowing Damon to play out his last two years in LF, Matsui his last few in the DH role when Giambi is gone next year, Abreu plays out his last year in RF, and whoever the NYY doesn’t deal for Johan from the trio of Gardner/ Tabata/ and Jackson slowly progresses up over a two and a half year span.

  100. mike f November 29th, 2007 at 1:04 pm

    sj:

    it seems possible that theo will wield more influence after being right about gagne

  101. gayle November 29th, 2007 at 1:07 pm

    Any conference call with Posada?? Would like to hear the audio from that one

  102. The Bronx Stop November 29th, 2007 at 1:07 pm

    haha yeah Mel.

    That announcement really blindsided me. But hey, it is official now I guess.

  103. The Bronx Stop November 29th, 2007 at 1:07 pm

    Gayle 3p.m.

  104. Mitchell's Eleven November 29th, 2007 at 1:07 pm

    My mother-in-law was concerned that, if we traded Melky, Robbie would have no one to hang around with and would get depressed. I told her he could hang out with Johan Santana.

  105. The Bronx Stop November 29th, 2007 at 1:08 pm

    hahahhahahahahahaha

  106. Mike in SF November 29th, 2007 at 1:08 pm

    SJ-

    Exactly my point. Labeling Hank a baffoon despite his early accomplishments is short-sighted. His updates to the media have helped me sort rumor from fact this offseason. His honesty is a breath of fresh air. And, the timing of his comments I feel are far too after the fact to tip the Yankees hand.

    From what I gather, this buffon perception is a common feeling amongst Red Sox fans- based from Bill Simmon’s chat yesterday. I kind of like them thinking that way.

  107. SJ44 November 29th, 2007 at 1:10 pm

    Billy Beane would want Hughes in a Haren trade. No way he trades Haren to the Yankees without Hughes.

    He will be able to bring in more teams in a deal, making it impossible for the Yankees to exclude Hughes in any Haren deal.

    Cashman may (depending on circumstances) be able to exclude Hughes from the Santana deal. I don’t think so but, its not impossible.

    I trade Hughes for Santana if they have to. I don’t trade him for Haren.

    Why? Two reasons. One, Santana is the better pitcher and is lefthanded. Not a lot of LH pitchers out there these days and NONE are like Santana.

    Last year, he had an “off” year. Comical. In his “off” year, in 33 starts, he gave up 4 or more runs in a game THREE times.

    Think about that for a minute. With the Yankees offense, if he has another “off” year like that, he could win 22-24 games.

    The second reason is, both Hughes and Haren are RH. I don’t see the gain from the Yankees perspective on that one.

    What makes Santana unique is not only that he is great. Its that he is lefthanded.

    That’s why he is so valuable.

  108. mel November 29th, 2007 at 1:11 pm

    Bronx,

    I don’t know why, but I have a feeling that some other announcements will made during the winter meetings. We still have to fill in 3rd and get a closer. Maybe Cabrera? Nathan? You know the Yankees always wanting to upstage MLB.

  109. Matt November 29th, 2007 at 1:11 pm

    So it is pretty much excepted that Cano will not be part of this deal right?…I really want him for my Twins…Cano and Melky and maybe a lower prospect, I’d be happy…I guess I’ll only be dreaming about that…

  110. CaptainsCorner November 29th, 2007 at 1:13 pm

    According to twincities…How can Lester, Crisp and 2 lower prospects be enough to get Santana? They wouldn’t have to include Ellsbury or Buchholz that is a joke. How could Hughes or Kennedy not beat that package.

  111. ET2012 November 29th, 2007 at 1:13 pm

    Shamus-

    If the Yanks give-up the pitching prospect Minn. has demanded in Hughes, and also Melky, the Yankees SHOULD NOT give up any other of those blue chip prospects you mentioned. Minn. is looking for SS and 3b help. Offer them Gonzales, or another level B prospect. That should be plenty. They are not going to get anything better from anyone.

  112. Brian November 29th, 2007 at 1:14 pm

    I have to say first off I’m not Brian (Sox Fan). I promise you I am a different guy. But I think that he got completely mugged, albeit by some great posters in their own right in this forum. Maybe there’s more of a history there than I know? I’ve got Sox Fan relatives who might call Hank a “buffoon” but that doesn’t give me the right to jump down their throat. I just re-read some of those posts he did last night (like maybe just three or four?) and somehow he managed to dominate the thread by everyone’s reactions. I really think it doesn’t have to be that fierce. Call me a buffoon, but it’s not like his posts had venom dripping off them. Unless Pete has a “No Red Sox fans allowed” policy, let’s take it easy, guys.

  113. mel November 29th, 2007 at 1:14 pm

    LOL. Matt. Fans of different teams view players differently. We really like that Carlos Santana guy you have. As for Cano, he and Joba are off-limits.

  114. Mike in SF November 29th, 2007 at 1:15 pm

    Matt,

    From my understanding, Cano is not possible because he will be earning a lot of money very soon. This is not Minny’s goal- they want young players that are salary-controlled, allowing them to select which ones they will retain to usher in the new stadium/revenue in 2010.

    Sorry but Can is off the lists, and yea, it is very nice to have his bat.

  115. Shamus November 29th, 2007 at 1:16 pm

    Furthermore, I had an epiphany downstairs in the beer cooler:

    AND GUESS WHAT– IT’S NON-JOHAN RELATED (and just fodder for fun!!!) !!!!!

    Before Bonds was indicted, the A’s were “reportedly” considering offering him a one year deal to DH, apparently close to $10M… Shocking, when now they are close to blowing up the team.

    Could Cashman maybe pawn Giambi and his one year off on Beane for some spare part bullpen piece, maybe a low-to-mid tier position player from the A’s, by offering, say, half of Giambi’s money in the deal?

    Am I nuts? Cots says Giambi is owed $21 in 08 (this year), and then its a team option in $09 for $22M, or a $5M buyout. You know that buyout will be exercised, so really Giambi will cost $21M + $5M = $26M for 2008, his last season, assuming the buyout clause is activated.

    So could Cashman ship Giambi off to a DH-deprived team in the AL, and add a certain amount of $$$ and maybe the lowest of low picthing prospects (think Wright ‘four-in-a-row’; Chase) and get a decent bullpen part in return? I’m sure the more $$$ he adds to the deal, the better (or possibly more) prospects the team would ship in return?

    Say they add $10-$13M to the deal, almost half of his contract for ’08 including the buyout clause… would you take a gamble on Giambi for one year at $13M as your DH?

    Remember, its just for fun… Perhaps a good way to try and ‘pluck a prospect’ the way they did with Red Ass Randy and The Sheff last year… To maybe try and make up somewhat for the talent they are about to give up for Johan (supposedly)… Aside from the A’s, I bet the Angels would be interested too… a lefty with a high on-base thats capable of anywhere from (when healthy) 15-35 HR ?

  116. The Bronx Stop November 29th, 2007 at 1:17 pm

    agreed Mel. You know those Yankees, always gotta be about them!!!

  117. Fleas November 29th, 2007 at 1:17 pm

    FWIW,

    I am a system admin/web developer for a rather large site.. turning registration on is not like pushing a button, unless it is already coded into the blog application. Otherwise it is going to take a little bit of time to get it running.

    I too was against it at first, but I think this blog will be self-sustaining now.

    Pete, go for it!

  118. SJ44 November 29th, 2007 at 1:17 pm

    Hank worked for the Yankees 20 years ago when George was George.

    Some of you may not have been born yet.

    Let me give you a crash course of what George was like.

    Take the worst stories you have ever heard about him, multiply it by 5, and that’s George.

    Hank and Hal saw how NOT to do things.

    In my observations at all levels of the organization, he and his brother seem determined to do things the right way.

    Does it mean he won’t make mistakes? Of course not. However, its pretty tough to whine about what he has done so far.

    Money, the Yankees have plenty of and its only going to increase when they open the new Stadium.

    Early reports cast the revenue increase to the Yankees in the new Stadium to be approx 100 million dollars ANNUALLY.

    That’s why all of baseball are afraid of the Yankees again.

    Not only will they have more money coming in (and a ton coming off the books) after next year, they are also rebuilding the farm system to such a degree that they can afford to get a guy like Santana and STILL have a lot of talent in the system.

    When you look back at the history of the Yankees, when they are able to do both, spend and develop, THAT’S when they built dynasties.

  119. Fleas November 29th, 2007 at 1:19 pm

    SJ44

    I totally agree! I don’t think I ever disagree with your comments.
    Remember my Arod post about Boras running the Arod show and not Arod, which you agreed with me? I was flamed for it by others.. and well.. not look at the outcome. Heh.

  120. Mike in SF November 29th, 2007 at 1:20 pm

    Shamus, great thought, and not one I wouldn’t lose sleep over.

    I think Giambi’s situation is not unlike Farnsy. We’ve been burned the last few years by each of them (albeit different reasons). If Giambi produces this year, he becomes the 2nd or 3rd best bat in our lineup. The upside on his potential, and the money we’ve all ready invested, would make it extremely tough to watch him mash for the A’s.

  121. The Bronx Stop November 29th, 2007 at 1:20 pm

    I think Girardi will get Giambis broken ass in shape.

  122. mel November 29th, 2007 at 1:21 pm

    The only thing that I can find wrong with Hank is 1) he smokes 2) he’s rough around the edges (translate: slightly offensive)

    But those can both be fixed! Although from what I hear, it may be easier to fix #2, than #1 (ahem Shamus).

  123. Shamus November 29th, 2007 at 1:21 pm

    And SJ44, right on about pro-Hughes-for-Santana…Nay-Hughes-for-Haren…

    Right on. If they could get Haren for Horne and Garnder, then whooped-de-do… But Hughes only rolls for Johan…

    Please take a look at my Giambi fodder of the day and tell me what you think… I got another one coming…

  124. CB November 29th, 2007 at 1:21 pm

    Haren is exactly the player the yankees should not go after because that’s a situation where they can’t use their biggest competitive advantage – money.

    The Yankees are able to keep talent by picking up more money – for example in the Abreu trade.

    Haren has such a reasonable contract just about every team in baseball will be able to bid on him. In addition, he’s signed for three more years – not one. If Beane doesn’t get exactly what he wants this year he’ll just hang on to him – he can do that for two years if he really wanted. Even though Santana is much better there are only a handful of teams that can afford him never mind that he’d want to play with.

    The market for Santana is more constrained than for Haren. The santana situation is analogous to ARod’s – best player but not many potential suitors because of cost.

  125. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge November 29th, 2007 at 1:23 pm

    mel
    November 29th, 2007 at 1:02 pm
    Yankees made a big announcement today. They’ve signed veteran catcher Jorge Posada. Wow. That came out of nowhere. lol.

    phew I can stop worrying now. :)

  126. William November 29th, 2007 at 1:25 pm

    It shouldn’t matter to any of us what players get paid. As fans, we want to watch a team that wins, period. It shouldn’t matter to you if the Yankees pay there players $300 million or $50 million and it isn’y going to alter ticket prices either. You think the Yankees are going to charge less based on their payroll? No, they are going to set ticket prices based on how much profit they can generate.

    As a result, replacing any starter on our team with Johan Santan is worth it because it gives us a better chance of watching a team that will win it all.

    With that said, there is very little incentive for the Yankees to trade for him now when they can sign him as a free agent next year. We’re the only team that will pay him $25 million/year anad as a result he’ll veto a trade to any other team.

  127. Prince November 29th, 2007 at 1:25 pm

    Does anyone else find it frustrating that writers keep mentioning other possible trade partners for the Twins?

    Santana has a full-no trade clause. I am not a brain surgeon, but I think that means he will go to the team HE WANTS to be traded to.

    Yes it is nice that Seattle, Anaheim and possibly the Dodgers want to be involved. But does Santana want them involved?

    I’m sure every other team who could afford his contract would like to be involved in these talks…

    It speaks volumes about how Santana feels about our team now that the Yanks have already begun pre-lim discussions with the Twins (unless that espn report was false). If you did not follow—if this is all true—this is where Johan wants to go.

    So unless something drastic happens–all of these other teams being involved are just BS.

    The ball is in Santana’s court, nobody elses. That is if the Twins want to roll the dice and keep him.

    Stop the madness–
    Prince

  128. mel November 29th, 2007 at 1:25 pm

    Jennifer,

    LOL. Don’t worry about the other holes we have. Rumor has it that the Yankees have some things in the works.

  129. The Bronx Stop November 29th, 2007 at 1:26 pm

    CB-

    okay. I see where you guys are coming from. But I do still think we should at least test the waters on Haren. You never know what could come out of it. And I am sure Cash will do just that at the meetings.

  130. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge November 29th, 2007 at 1:28 pm

    I hope Mo re-signs, along with Jose. I can’t stand being this late into the season and not knowing what is going on. :P

    Seriously what is taking so long to announce, they still have to make 2 more roster moves.

  131. ~Adam. November 29th, 2007 at 1:29 pm

    Shamus, you could be onto something about Giambi. That would be a big deal to them. Cashman aint doin’ it for just a bullpen guy though, especially if we’re sending cash too. He’ll get value like he got value for Sheff.

  132. Mike in SF November 29th, 2007 at 1:29 pm

    Prince,

    As Bobcat stated, you read what you are supposed to read.

    Maybe these rumors are circulating from Minny’s objective- to make it look like they got the best offer from 6 or 7 teams. If their fans knew they were only dealing with the Yanks and Mets, they would be outraged.

  133. mel November 29th, 2007 at 1:29 pm

    Bronx Stop,

    How about Cashman get active in the Haren talks and involve some of the players that Smith may be eyeing? Maybe Minny gets impatient? HaHa, I’ll go back to my room with the padded walls now.

  134. El Comaduce November 29th, 2007 at 1:30 pm

    FLEAS, depending on the architecture of the server, u could get ROLLER running with registration in a couple of hours.

  135. CB November 29th, 2007 at 1:30 pm

    Bronx Stop,

    I have no problem with the yankees inquiring about haren – in fact they should if for no other reason to plant the seed in Bill Smith’s mind that they have other options. Smith should know that the yankee prospects he’s been offered could go other places.

    But ultimately they will get a better player and a better value in Santana because Haren’s contract isn’t that much of a plus to the yankees – not even close to how important Haren’s contract would be to others. Other teams will give up better prospects just because they value Haren’s contract in addition to Haren’s talent.

  136. Matt November 29th, 2007 at 1:30 pm

    I’d like to let this be known…Santana is one of the nicest guys around, he’s not fittin’ to screw over the team that brought him up…He’s not going to demand a trade or veto a trade willy nilly…I think he is concerned about winning…Hunter is a very outspoken player, and although he is hilarious he often says things that come out of left field or him just trying to be funny…Just because Hunter said Santana will end up in NYC does not mean he will…Granted you have the best overall chance IMO…I just don’t want this leverage thing to be overstated…As Botcat quoted Cashman as saying “It’s up to the Twins”…We have a lot of power in this…If this trade situation doesn’t work out we could just roll with Tans till the trade deadline…

  137. migames November 29th, 2007 at 1:30 pm

    is it me, or am i the only one who thinks that giambi is a pretty good assest to the team (regardless of pay)Giambi is a on-base machine, when healthy. If giambi is healthy, i see no reason to trade him

  138. Shamus November 29th, 2007 at 1:30 pm

    On Giambi:

    (Trying to not dream/think/talk about the LHP from Minny still!)

    Hey, I loved the guy, the partying, the Mantle obsession (he wears 25 because 2+5=7, his idol), his sick, 15 year old dog two years ago that toured the country and flew on the team plane with him on the road away from his penthouse in Vegas for the final two months of the season because the thing was dying, and the ra-ra attitude.

    I was sad to see Tino go, but I was psyched when the Yanks pounced on Giambi.

    Olney once wrote that during the 2001 playoff series against the A’s, Steinbrenner was in the owner’s box mimicking Giambi’s stance and swing, talking aloud how he would be in ‘stripes the next year, his free agent year.

    When everything went down with him starting in 03, it became a disaster. regardless of the resurgency a few years ago, last year he was injured a lot as well.

    If they can spend some cash and dump him to free-up some of the logjam at first base, then I say go for it. Heck, move Matsui or Damon to 1B, or let Duncan or Phillips battle it out in ST, depending on who we have left in the OF (along with Matsui, Damon, Abreu, poss still Melky???) when the season starts.

    But with one year left, if the Yankees added enough $$$ to the deal, they could dump the G-Man. Just some food for thought.

  139. mel November 29th, 2007 at 1:30 pm

    Jennifer,

    You didn’t mention Alex. Rumor has it he wants to come back. Freudian slip?

  140. ET2012 November 29th, 2007 at 1:30 pm

    Shamus-

    The question is… Would Giamba waive his no trade clause? He might do it to go back to the A’s, otherwise, I don’t think he would; and would the A’s make this kind of deal?

  141. dale baker November 29th, 2007 at 1:31 pm

    Make the Deal!

    I like youth and prospects as much as the next guy but i’d go as far as giving Hughes or Joba, Melky and Horne to have the best pitcher in the majors (assumigly) signed up for the next 5-6 years.
    Remember, it took santana 4 years before he became Santana and even if Hughes/Joba does turn out to be as good as Johan (which is very unlikely), it’ll take him a few years to get there.
    Also, realize that the Yankees fell behind the Sox when Beckett moved to the Fens and fell further behind when the sox got Matsuzaka (even if they way overpaid). Santana/Wang stack up at least even with Beckett/Dice K.
    Play it to give up the least you have to but GET JOHAN!!!

  142. DVB Forever November 29th, 2007 at 1:33 pm

    LaTroy Hawkins is a BUM….He stunk in Chicago under the pressure of being the closer and will STINK under the pressure of just having the NYY Uniform on his back….DO NOT GET HAWKINS…..HE WILL BE AS BAD OR WORSE THAN FARNSY !

  143. Fernando Alejandro November 29th, 2007 at 1:33 pm

    Since there’s not much going on right now, I think I’ll start a new rumor. It looks like Santana is going to the Yankees for Alberto Gonzalez, and not the ball player, but the former attorney general. Good trade all around.

  144. Seymour November 29th, 2007 at 1:33 pm

    I miss Bobcat – anyone have his email address?

  145. El Comaduce November 29th, 2007 at 1:34 pm

    I dont think we could trade Giambi and cash to Oakland because the amount of cash would not be allowed by the comish… I cant imagine the commissioners office allowing that… i am probably wrong, because i am not that smart….

  146. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge November 29th, 2007 at 1:34 pm

    Shamus The Yankees let the dog go on the plane? Wow interesting tid bit.

    Mel I knew I was forgetting another player. I really hope that Alex guy re-signs as well.

  147. hmmm November 29th, 2007 at 1:36 pm

    “Second, IPK has a ceiling for 2008 of 175 innings, as compared to Hughes’ 150. With Hughes tendency to throw that many pitches per inning, his help to the Yanks in 2008 will be indeed, very limited. ”

    i appreciate your well-thought out post, but this logic is severely short-sighted.

    you have to be kidding me if you would let a 25 inning difference have ANY weight in your decision.

    you are talking about 2 kids who would be with the yankees for the next 6 seasons at least and you would send one over the other b/c of 25 innings in the first year?

    i’m sorry, but that is insane.

  148. Shamus November 29th, 2007 at 1:36 pm

    I bet he’d wave it to go back out to the west coast, he grew up in Covina (I believe), attended CSU Long Beach, came up with the A’s, lives in Vegas in teh offseason.

    I bet he’d waive to go to a few diff’t Wcoast teams…

    But I am just speculating, speculating, speculating. What do I know. I am just so sick and tired if talking about the Minny SouthPaw…

  149. The Bronx Stop November 29th, 2007 at 1:37 pm

    Anyone else just seem Timmy Kurkjian on SportsCenter just now? He sounds pretty convinced the Yankees are going to land Santana.

  150. mel November 29th, 2007 at 1:38 pm

    Migames,

    You’re not alone. Giambi’s in his contract year. If that doesn’t motivate a player, nothing will. Wait, never mind, Andruw was in a contract year. (How may hints did Boras have to drop this year?)

    It’ll be interesting to see how this club shapes up with a new sheriff in town. They all loved and respected Torre, but sometimes “Under New Management” brings a new energy.

  151. Shamus November 29th, 2007 at 1:38 pm

    El Comaduce–

    Anything over $1 million has to be APPROVED by the commish…

    I believe, but I could be wrong. I remember hearing that on ESPN during the Randy trade (which also took FOREVER)…

  152. Real World November 29th, 2007 at 1:40 pm

    No updates, eh fellas? Here in Boston they keep flashing that “Redsox are now the front runners for Santana…” bit on sports radio WEEI. I really have trouble believing that package would land Santana. Not that Materson/Lowrie/Lester are bad prospects, but they aren’t, or at least don’t seem to be high ceiling players. Masterson has the most upside of the bunch, but he’s had his ups and downs in the minors. Lowrie is a minor league SS who’s going to play 2B in the majors, while Lester is ok, and Crisp sucks. Strange deal if it’s legit.

  153. Shamus November 29th, 2007 at 1:40 pm

    I say they field offers for Matsui and/or Damon…

    Why not??.. both are getting old and injury prone… I’d rather give Rowand $13M a year than either of them (latelly).

    Matsui (barring one month this season) has been banged up with injuries dating back to his wrist.

    And Noodle-Arm has just crashed into too many walls…

    Lets Make a Deal !!!

  154. mel November 29th, 2007 at 1:40 pm

    Bronx,

    How high was his voice? It’s an indication of accuracy.

    Law would take Lester over Kennedy. We really must have blinders on.

  155. Real World November 29th, 2007 at 1:41 pm

    Bronx,

    What did Kurkjin say?

  156. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") November 29th, 2007 at 1:41 pm

    I think something big is coming, besides Bobcat doesn’t take this long to respond

  157. hmmm November 29th, 2007 at 1:42 pm

    “I dont think we could trade Giambi and cash to Oakland because the amount of cash would not be allowed by the comish… I cant imagine the commissioners office allowing that… i am probably wrong, because i am not that smart….”

    i agree. i don’t think Selig would allow it.

    the problem isn’t his 2008 salary. Selig would probably allow the yankees to send about half of his salary. the problem is the $5M buyout he has in 2009.

    the yankees would have to send about $16M on what would essentially be a 1 year contract to Oakland.

    i think it would get nixed.

  158. The Bronx Stop November 29th, 2007 at 1:43 pm

    His voice was very high lol. Hang on I will rewind the TiVo and type it out.

  159. CB November 29th, 2007 at 1:43 pm

    Baseball Prospectus came out with their ranking of the top prospects in the yankees system:

    Five-Star Prospects
    1. Joba Chamberlain, RHP

    Four-Star Prospects
    2. Ian Kennedy, RHP
    3. Austin Jackson, OF
    4. Jose Tabata, OF
    5. Alan Horne, RHP

    Three-Star Prospects
    6. Dellin Betances, RHP
    7. Jesus Montero, C
    8. Andrew Brackman, RHP
    9. Edwar Ramirez, RHP
    10. Kelvin DeLeon, OF

    Two-Star Prospects
    11. Humberto Sanchez, RHP

    Phil Hughes didn’t qualify any longer becuase he’s technically no longer a rookie.

    Goldstein had him Phil rated as the Yankee’s top player under 25 – ahead of Cano.

    By comparison here is BP’s list for the twins:

    Four-Star Prospects
    1. Ben Revere, CF

    Three-Star Prospects
    2. Anthony Swarzak, RHP
    3. Jeff Manship, RHP
    4. Eduardo Morlan, RHP
    5. Tyler Robertson, LHP
    6. Nick Blackburn, RHP
    7. Brian Duensing, LHP
    8. Trevor Plouffe, SS

    Two-Star Prospects
    9. Chris Parmelee, OF
    10. David Bromberg, RHP
    11. Joe Benson, OF

    No 5 star prospects. Ben Revere was taken in this year’s draft – he’s their only “4 star” prospect. He’s a fast, light hitting middle infielder. The number of Yankees 4 star prospects says a lot.

    A deal with Kennedy, Melky and Horne should get this Santana deal done. They should not trade Hughes. Kennedy and Horne are very, very talented. They get downgraded a bit because they aren’t Chamberlain and Hughes. BP has very, very few guys listed as 5 star prospects.

    I don’t think the Sox could even match that deal unless they put in Buchholz or Ellsbury.

    Here’s BP’s list for the Sox

    Five-Star Prospects
    1. Clay Buchholz, RHP
    2. Jacoby Ellsbury, CF

    Four-Star Prospects
    3. Justin Masterson, RHP
    4. Jed Lowrie, SS
    5. Ryan Kalish, OF

    Three-Star Prospects
    6. Michael Bowden, RHP
    7. Lars Anderson, 1B
    8. Nick Hagadone, LHP
    9. Oscar Tejeda, SS
    Two-Star Prospects
    10. Josh Reddick, OF
    11. Che-Hsuan Lin, OF

  160. mel November 29th, 2007 at 1:43 pm

    Matsui’s not going anywhere. Well, he said he’d move to 1st for the good of the team. But I think that’s as far as he’ll go. I think people forget that Matsui’s been a steady producer for the Yankees.

  161. Real World November 29th, 2007 at 1:44 pm

    The reason why some people prefer Lester over Kennedy is because he’s a lefty. His command would scare me though. In the minors people chase pitches, in the pros they really don’t. Lester’s been a 5 inning, 100+ pitch, 1.6 WHIP pitcher.

  162. saucy November 29th, 2007 at 1:44 pm

    “migames
    November 29th, 2007 at 1:30 pm
    is it me, or am i the only one who thinks that giambi is a pretty good assest to the team (regardless of pay)Giambi is a on-base machine, when healthy. If giambi is healthy, i see no reason to trade him”

    agreed

  163. CB November 29th, 2007 at 1:45 pm

    Sorry forgot to put the link to the BP list:

    http://baseballprospectus.com/.....cleid=6957

  164. RosterRooster November 29th, 2007 at 1:45 pm

    I Agree Shamus. Its time to let go of some of our old lefties. Hopefully Cashman can get some young “bullpen like” pitching for Giambi, Damon, or Matsui before ST.

  165. El Comaduce November 29th, 2007 at 1:45 pm

    Thanks for the clarification Shamus, that makes sense…

    For all you youngsters out there, the yankees used to do what shamus is discussing all the time. The would trade big names that where on the way out to the KC Monarchs(i think that was the team) – in return the monarchs would send them the young kids. The Yankees would also pay the big names salary.

    The monarchs would get a bigtime name to draw at the gate, and the yankees would get the talent…

    ahhhhh, the good old days…

  166. RosterRooster November 29th, 2007 at 1:46 pm

    Speaking of young kids, Any chance Betances makes the pen this year?

  167. Boston Dave November 29th, 2007 at 1:46 pm

    SJ –

    what makes you think Santana does not want to play for the Red Sox? I believe you, I just have not heard that anywhere outside of this blog. Are the sources credible?

    Thanks.

  168. ~Adam. November 29th, 2007 at 1:47 pm

    No way Matsui’s going anywhere. What and alienate 3/4 of Japan. Matsui makes the Yanks a ton of money.

  169. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge November 29th, 2007 at 1:47 pm

    Is there any word on when the conference call will be. I haven’t had sports radio on at all today. I can’t stand listening to Mets fans cry, and say how the Mets should get Santana for Peltry and Humber.

  170. mel November 29th, 2007 at 1:47 pm

    Boston Dave,

    I’m not being facetious, but does Torii Hunter count as a source?

  171. TurnTwo November 29th, 2007 at 1:48 pm

    I think itd be hard to move Matsui, being as productive as he has been the past couple years. However, depending on how the chips fall here, I would not be opposed to moving him for the right package, either.

    He, of course, has his no-trade, so unless he’s going to Seattle or LA to be closer to home, I really doubt he’d ever consider waiving it.

    I’d move Matsui over Damon, because Damon brings his element of speed to the lineup and is our true leadoff hitter… Cano can be moved up in the lineup if need be and replace Matsui’s production from the middle part of the lineup.

  172. The Bronx Stop November 29th, 2007 at 1:48 pm

    Kurkjian on Sportscenter-

    “The Mets may be the most motivated team to trade for Johan Santana, but the Yankees appear the most likely team to land the two time Cy Young award winner. First, the Yankees have the most money–it is going to cost around 130 million dollars over 7 years to keep Santana beyond 2008. Second, the Yankees have young players led by pitcher Phil Hughes followed by outfielder Melkey Cabrera and others. And third, the Yankees have Hank Steinbrenner running the show. Like his father- he may not rest until he gets his man.”

  173. ~Adam. November 29th, 2007 at 1:48 pm

    Boston Dave-

    Fanway Part is like Santana cryptonite. Yankee Stadium is like the yellow sun of the earth.

    All those HRs he supposedly gives up…. just long fly balls to left.

  174. Mike R. November 29th, 2007 at 1:48 pm

    I think it might be Bobcat’s day off.

  175. Boston Dave November 29th, 2007 at 1:49 pm

    mel, I would say he does…

    if he says Johan told him that. Wishful thinking but if Johan would confirm that, it might make the Yankees job of acquiring him a bit easier.

  176. Boston Dave November 29th, 2007 at 1:50 pm

    Adam,

    Johan pitches very well at Fenway. I dont want to hear what his career #s are at Fenway. He had ONE bad start at Fenway, and it happened to be the third start of his career.

  177. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge November 29th, 2007 at 1:50 pm

    Where is Miller? Damn you’d think they have a job. We need info!!!

  178. The Bronx Stop November 29th, 2007 at 1:51 pm

    Just saw a commercial for “The Hurricane” batting trainer starring Derek Jeter. He says “If it works for me, it will work for you.”

    Now I know why he hit into so many double play balls in Cleveland!!! He forgot to pack “The Hurricane”!!!!

  179. Ed FL November 29th, 2007 at 1:51 pm

    Adam,
    I read that The Steinbrenner family is building a hotel cmplex near the new Stadium. If true, this revenue is not part of the Yankees’ revenue share participation in mlb.

  180. mel November 29th, 2007 at 1:51 pm

    I think that Matsui is what we call “samurai”, not old school, ancient school. He takes great pride in wearing pinstripes and you see it in his preparation and effort. Although some of you may think his effort falls short, he’s still a valuable bat tot he Yankees. It would be “shame” for him if he accepted a trade away from the Yankees.

  181. Jake November 29th, 2007 at 1:53 pm

    Ya, Bobcat has disappeared. What a C^CK tease!

    Keith Law seems to be conveying some insight that suggests that Santana is a one year rental and that he will not sign an extension within the 72 hour window.

    I wonder if this has any substance.

    I also wonder if Santana has basically whittled down the potential suitors for the Twins saying he will or will not go here or there.

  182. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge November 29th, 2007 at 1:53 pm

    It was actually his first start in 2000

    http://www.baseball-reference......=santajo02

    scroll near the bottom you will see splits in parks, than open it you see the games he started there.

  183. ET2012 November 29th, 2007 at 1:53 pm

    Adam-

    If what you say is true, then getting Santana to help the Yanks in the playoffs, all of sudden does not seem that attractive. Boston is the perennial Yanks rival in the postseason. Half of the games would be played in Boston…Hmmm…

    Do you have his stats for Fenway Park?

  184. Boston Dave November 29th, 2007 at 1:54 pm

    Ed FL,

    Just another reason why we, as fans, need to stop worrying about the Yankees money and how much they spend on players.

    Pete saying… I’d rather have Hughes 15 wins for 400k than Johan’s 18 wins for 20M is ridiculous logic. If the Yankees have the money (under the current system) then why not spend it on improving the team? Would Pete feel better if the Steinbrenners saved their money for retirement and bought some new homes instead?

  185. Brian November 29th, 2007 at 1:54 pm

    Roster Rooster
    Betances is a ways out. From where he’s coming from I’d expect to see him in Sept. 2010 at the very earliest.

  186. El Comaduce November 29th, 2007 at 1:54 pm

    People are underestimating the money aspect with Santana. While not an object to the yanks, it is probably an object to all the other teams mentioned…. The mets are cheap – they wont pay 20+ a year for a starter. IF Boston gets him – what do they do with Becks? He should make as much as Santana…

  187. Boston Dave November 29th, 2007 at 1:54 pm

    ET2,

    dont listen to Adam, who has no idea what he is talking about when it comes to Santana at Fenway.

  188. TurnTwo November 29th, 2007 at 1:54 pm

    maybe its just me, but i never noticed bobcat on the blog until later in the day, anyway…

  189. migames November 29th, 2007 at 1:54 pm

    bobcat-good while it lasted.

  190. Skippy November 29th, 2007 at 1:55 pm

    Completely off topic, but does anyone know of a website where I could get the Cowboys/Packers game tonight? I know this summer people were giving others URLs to watch Yankee games that were out of their market, just wondering if there was anything similar I could use to defeat the combined evil of the NFL Network and Time Warner Cable…

  191. Jake November 29th, 2007 at 1:55 pm

    Boston Dave,

    Good point.

  192. berra8 November 29th, 2007 at 1:56 pm

    From everything I have heard, it is not that Santana does not want to play in Boston, just that he would prefer to play in New York. I sincerely doubt Santana would veto a trade to Boston if Boston gave him the money he wants. Athletes have preferences certainly, but I don’t think that he is so enamoured with being a Yankee that he would do everything he could to get himself there.

  193. Boston Dave November 29th, 2007 at 1:56 pm

    ET2012, I believe Santana has given up just 2ER in the last 5 seasons at Fenway Park.

    You can spin stats any way you want to make them fit your argument. I personally dont care how poorly he pitched in his 3rd career start at Fenway (3IP, 7ER). I care about how he pitches there right now.

  194. Jake November 29th, 2007 at 1:56 pm

    El Comaduce,

    Too true. Boston doesn’t have the need for pitching to go out and dump their farm AND 150 million on Johan Santana.

  195. TurnTwo November 29th, 2007 at 1:57 pm

    If the Yankees were smart, they’d try and tie a ballpark village with some bars or a restaurant or something into the old grounds where the original Yankee Stadium will be torn down. I’ve been up to Fenway, and the day of the game, it’s a ton of fun to take part in the experience of Fenway, as well as taking in the game.

    of course, who am i to tell the Yankees how to make money… but as a fan, i would love to have some places around the ballpark in the neighborhood to meet up and enjoy before the game.

  196. Real World November 29th, 2007 at 1:57 pm

    Well, I think the Yankees would be more willing to trade without an extension in place.

  197. gianthinker November 29th, 2007 at 1:57 pm

    Boston cant pay Santana $20+ mill a year when Beckett is a much better playoff pitcher and their ace and he’s only making $10 mill a year. That would start trouble.

  198. mel November 29th, 2007 at 1:58 pm

    Boston Dave,

    Santana would never confirm any such thing publicly as our Minny friend Matt has said here. And Torii simply said that Santana will end up in New York. But Torii has always obsessed with the Yankees.

    In reality we must not place too much weight on what athletes say or don’t say. For instance, it was widely assumed that Garnett wanted to play for the Lakers. He has a home in Malibu, works out in LA in the summer, hangs out with Kobe, blah blah blah. So the Lakers pluck Garnett’s 1st cousin out of the Euro Leauges and pay him $2M to sit his ass on the pine as the 4th guard off the bench! Well now, after Garnett’s safely ensconsed in the last place that people expected him to embrace he’s saying “I didn’t want to play there. That FO’s a mess.”

    I’m sorry, did I go off on a tangent rant? lol. Didn’t mean to do that. Meant to say can’t go by what he read and “hear”.

  199. Uh Oh.. November 29th, 2007 at 1:58 pm

    Johan Santana to Boston for Coco Crisp, Clay Buchholz, Micheal Bowden and Jed Lowrie.

    Thats been reported a few places…

  200. Mike R. November 29th, 2007 at 1:58 pm

    Brian – My estimate for a Betances Bronx debut is probably 2010 at best, 2011 is optimistic, 2012 maybe. Not the best answer, but you have a range. He should start next year at Charleston for his first full season.

  201. Boston Dave November 29th, 2007 at 1:59 pm

    berra8, thats still good news that Johan prefers NY. He seems like a good guy, good teammate, best pitcher in baseball, lefty, and he wants to be a Yankee. I havent found any real flaws yet.

  202. Mike R. November 29th, 2007 at 1:59 pm

    Uh oh – Are you sure that it is not several places citing the Pioneer press article?

  203. Martini6196 November 29th, 2007 at 2:00 pm

    “Uh Oh..
    November 29th, 2007 at 1:58 pm
    Johan Santana to Boston for Coco Crisp, Clay Buchholz, Micheal Bowden and Jed Lowrie.

    Thats been reported a few places…”

    And what are those “few places”?

  204. El Comaduce November 29th, 2007 at 2:01 pm

    We spend a ton of money this year, going forward we will really start seeing more talent come out of the minors. The yanks are finally really exploiting the draft by throwing a ton of money at the quality guys… We are getting talent falling to us to pounce on. Talent that others pass up because they are not wanting to offer these guys big time money..

    If i am CA$Hman i keep this up… I also build the BEST training facilities in the dominican, venezuala, etc..

    I look into purchasing the cuban national team – you know, evil empire stuff…

    The point being that we can get more bang for our buck in those 2 arenas. Plus when you bring a kid thru the system, he will handle NY better.

    I would also overpay for scouts and talent evaluators

  205. Shamus November 29th, 2007 at 2:02 pm

    Beckett’s contract: (courtesy of Cots)

    07:$6M, 08:$9.5M, 09:$10.5M, 10:$12M club option ($2M buyout)
    2010 option vests with 28 GS in 2009 or 56 GS 2008-09

    How will he feel if suddenly Johan comes along, at $20-$25M a year?

    Not to mention, how will ‘Table for One’-’38pitches.com’-Red-Light Schill and Mikey Lowell, who both just took home town discounts to stay with the Sox, feel about this?

    The Sox have money, but with so many young players set to get HUGE raises in the next five or so years (Beckett, Papelbon, Pedroia, Youkilis, Ellsbury)all getting paid much much more money, how can they afford Johan– on top of bad contracts like Nancy Drew, Julio Lugo, Dice-K (including posting fee).

    I just don’t believe the Sox are players in this… Unless they try to help three-way him to another team, like the Dodgers, for spare parts and can dump Coco…

    But again, Johan has the NTC… He holds the cards….

  206. Boston Dave November 29th, 2007 at 2:02 pm

    Uh OH, that is a steep price for Boston BUT it still scares the hell out of me. Boston will either get him or make the Yanks give up even more.

  207. Miller November 29th, 2007 at 2:02 pm

    Uh Oh..
    November 29th, 2007 at 1:58 pm
    Johan Santana to Boston for Coco Crisp, Clay Buchholz, Micheal Bowden and Jed Lowrie.

    Thats been reported a few places…

    This deal has not been made.

  208. mel November 29th, 2007 at 2:02 pm

    Alejandro, Panama city: Dear Keith: I write you because I have a question, is certain that the NYY acquire Johan Santana ? in a trade by P. Gughes ….

    Keith Law: (1:56 PM ET ) En este momento no hay un trueque entre los Yanquis y los Mellizos. Hay muchos equipos tratan de adquirir Santana por canje, pero ahora no es cierto donde el va jugar en el año 2008.

    ?

  209. raymagnetic November 29th, 2007 at 2:03 pm

    Speaking of young kids, Any chance Betances makes the pen this year?

    Betances has never pitched in full season ball as of yet so there’s zero chance he’ll be in the Bx. this year.

  210. Jake November 29th, 2007 at 2:03 pm

    I love to hear all this ridiculous banter about how these Single A Yankees prospects are going to be great and when they’ll be ready for the bigs.

    Stop pretending these guys are more valuable than they really are.

    1 out of 10 of them will probably be really good and that 1 is probably already in the rotation in 2008. He set up for Rivera last year. Odds have it that the rest of them will be middle tier.

  211. mel November 29th, 2007 at 2:04 pm

    At this moment there’s no deal with the Yankees and Twins. They have a lot to work with to get Santana, but now it is not certain where he will play in 2008.

    Am I right? That’s off the top of my head.

  212. Boston Dave November 29th, 2007 at 2:04 pm

    Shamus, I dont think Boston is going to not make moves in order to spare Becketts feelings.

    Gil Meche made more than Beckett last year. That didnt stop him. Heck, Carlos Silva and Kyle Lohse will make as much or more than Beckett. Beckett signed a bad contract (if his goal was to make as much $$ as possible) and its not Bostons problem.

  213. Wolf In Pinstripes November 29th, 2007 at 2:04 pm

    Guys, I’m sure Bobcat is busy working his job on occasion. What a concept. ;)

    CB – Ben Revere was a local product here in Lexington, KY. I was kind of hoping to see him generate some interest from the Yankees during the draft. The coaches here really hyped him as a hard worker who was always trying to make himself better. His bat did need some work at the time, but they said there was plaenty of potential to develop. The part about him being fast as lightning is dead-on as well. If we end up giving up some OF’s to Minnesota in a Santana deal, I wouldn’t mind seeing him come back as a low-level prospect to compensate for us giving up OFers that were closer to ML service.

  214. murphydog November 29th, 2007 at 2:04 pm

    The would trade big names that where on the way out to the KC “Monarchs(i think that was the team) – in return the monarchs would send them the young kids.”

    Almost. The KC Monarchs were part of the old Negro Leagues. (Think back to the late Buck O’Neill).

    The Kansas City Royals were the team the Yankees used to use as a AAAA club, parking talent there, trading with them on sweetheart terms.

  215. RosterRooster November 29th, 2007 at 2:05 pm

    thanks ray, at any rate, i see closer in his future

  216. Mike R. November 29th, 2007 at 2:05 pm

    Keith Law: (1:56 PM ET ) En este momento no hay un trueque entre los Yanquis y los Mellizos. Hay muchos equipos tratan de adquirir Santana por canje, pero ahora no es cierto donde el va jugar en el año 2008.

    At this moment there is not a trade between the Yankees and the Twins. There are alot of teams interested in trading for Santana. Where he will play in ’08 is still uncertain.

  217. Boston Dave November 29th, 2007 at 2:06 pm

    Good point Jake. the fans tend to mark every top prospect as future all star. you only hear about the bad trades and jeff bagwells of the world. people forget about all those top prospects that never pan out.

  218. pat November 29th, 2007 at 2:06 pm

    Mel
    Translation:
    At this time there is an exchange between the Yankees and the Twins. Many teams try to acquire Santana for redemption, but now it is not certain where the will play in the year 2008.

  219. Mike R. November 29th, 2007 at 2:06 pm

    You are correct mel. Good job!

  220. CB November 29th, 2007 at 2:07 pm

    I don’t see the Red Sox giving up Buchholz never mind Buchholz, Bowden and Lowrie just to get santana and pay him $150 million.

    I know the red sox and their fans love ellsbury but would they really trade buchholz instead of ellsbury?

    If the sox want to make that trade let them. To match that the yankees would have to trade Hughes, Kennedy (or perhaps Horne), Melky and another player.

    I’d pass. That said I don’t buy that rumor. Never mind whether or not santana wants to play there.

  221. ~Adam. November 29th, 2007 at 2:07 pm

    Santana has 3.60 ERA in 5 innings work at Fenway in his career.
    I Hr.
    .300 Batting avg. against. albeit over 15 outs.

    Not a big enough sample obviously.

    I’m banking on history showing right handed pitching & hitting is better suited for Fenway, and left handed pitching and hitting better suited for Yankee Stadium.

    Don’t think the Sox don’t know all there is to know about signing Santana to a long term deal, something they’re hesitant to anyway. The real issue is if Boston needs Santana the way the Yaks do. And the answer is no. They could just as easily keep thse prospects and be a great team without Santana.

  222. Wolf In Pinstripes November 29th, 2007 at 2:08 pm

    Mel – pretty close. It’s saying that there is no deal as of yet and that there are other teams in the mix.

  223. mel November 29th, 2007 at 2:08 pm

    Mike R.

    Not quite, I thought it was the Yankees had a lot to work with. I like mine better, but thanks for the real translation.

  224. Jake November 29th, 2007 at 2:08 pm

    Let Boston get Santana.

    I will enjoy watching the Red Sox dump a ton of money on guys and thus impacting their ability to sign others down the line.

    If we don’t get Santana, we will have a ton of money to work with once the cripples come off the books after 08 (Giambi, Mussina).

  225. mel November 29th, 2007 at 2:10 pm

    Jake,

    That’s interesting. If Boston got Santana, do you think the Yankees would empty the farm to try and get both Haren AND Bedard?

  226. Matt November 29th, 2007 at 2:10 pm

    This was writen in the newest Jason Stark article on ESPN.com…

    “You’re not going to ‘volume’ them in this deal,” says an official of one team that has spoken with the Twins. “They’re not going to take five average players. They’re going to get star-caliber guys back, or it’s not going to happen.”

  227. El Comaduce November 29th, 2007 at 2:12 pm

    I am making the trade if i dont give up Hughes, Joba or Cano. These big time pitchers do not make it to free agency…. Look at the last big pitcher – it was barry zito… His past 3 years or so before last year, where not great and he got a monster deal…

    Look at yohans numbers versus zito, who would you rather have… Ignore this last year for Zito – gross

  228. CB November 29th, 2007 at 2:12 pm

    Wolf,

    I’m sure revere is a nice prospect – probably a reach in the first round but the twins know their scouting and won’t go over slot.

    The depth of the yankee system, especially in at the Kennedy/ Horne range should fill needs the Twins have without giving up Hughes. Its a much better deal for them than draft picks.

  229. eric November 29th, 2007 at 2:13 pm

    Rumors are swirling at NYYFANS.COM that the Red Sox have landed Santana in a trade…

  230. mel November 29th, 2007 at 2:13 pm

    So if the scenario that Matt quoted happens, more likely than not they go with picks unless they trade him a the deadline as a true rental?

  231. Mike R. November 29th, 2007 at 2:14 pm

    Matt – I think you are the person that can best answer this. Would you rather the Yankees send Hughes with secondary position players or Get stud position players (Jackson and Tabata) and a lesser pitching prospect (Kennedy)?

  232. Bobcat November 29th, 2007 at 2:15 pm

    Greetings. Quick update:

    1) You’re seeing a lot of public posturing on Santana from all of the teams that we’ve discussed recently. Sox are trying to jack the price, Twins are trying to bring the Dodgers in and ratchet up the Yankees’ position. All very expected. You read what you are supposed to read.

    2) Nathan is getting some play, again, as expected, from the teams one would expect them to. Nathan’s leaving may alter the package that the Twins/Yankees agree on, but the Yankees’ suits don’t really care which combination the Twins take. The Yankees feel they have balanced the various offers.

    3) Several press releases are out there that indicate that the Sox will not trade more than one of their prime chips. Accurate. The Sox are not seen as players; only shills. They would have to include Ellsbury.

    4) Mets are not in on Santana. Reyes is not going anywhere.

    5) A lot of action on Haren. As expected, and reported, Beane is asking for the moon. All it takes is one owner to agree. Mets, as reported, have offered the farm. Unfortunately, the farm is not what it once was.

    5) GMs are gearing up for next week and there may be some surprises, in that the FA market is non-existant this year.

    6) Some of you may be looking for links or verification of what I am telling you. You know my position: I can confirm or deny what has been published, but I cannot disclose what has not been made public. You can believe my postings or not; that’s up to you. When I start being wrong, move on.

    I’ll try to check in later.

  233. El Comaduce November 29th, 2007 at 2:15 pm

    Same thing at piratefans.net…. Did not see that one coming, yohan pitching in Pittsburgh…

  234. ET2012 November 29th, 2007 at 2:16 pm

    Adam and Boston Dave,

    I dug-up some info on Santana @ Fenway in the last 4 years. It turns out, he has only pitched in Fenway once in the last 4 yrs. and that was in 2006. He pitched 5 innings and gave up 4runs, 1hr and 3bb.

    Now, that is not enough of a sample to determine whether he does good or bad in Fenway Park. The jury still out on that one…

  235. mel November 29th, 2007 at 2:16 pm

    Bobcat sighting!

    Thanks.

  236. Maverick November 29th, 2007 at 2:17 pm

    Why does no one mention Eric Wordekemper or Kevin Whelan? Both put up good numbers compared to Ohlendorf. Wordekemper had a lower BAA in the AFL and was the pitcher of the year in the FSL. He has to be as good as Ramirez or Bruney. Whelan had his stock drop a lot this year but was considered a good bullpen arm before the year

  237. Ed FL November 29th, 2007 at 2:17 pm

    I have read every post since 6.am today. I need nw glasses. Got to get a life.

  238. El Comaduce November 29th, 2007 at 2:18 pm

    Would nathan setup for us? How could he be ok with that?

  239. Maverick November 29th, 2007 at 2:19 pm

    For all of you saying good let Boston get him, ARE YOU CRAZY? They will have 2 of the top 5 pitchers in baseball and we will have three kids who may be great but could just be average major league players. The only one that would even come close to being a Top 5 MLB pitcher is Joba while Hughes will be good but maybe not dominant. If Boston has those two I think we are in for a long couple years.

  240. mel November 29th, 2007 at 2:19 pm

    I’m lost. If they deal Nathan, who becomes their closer?

  241. vrsce November 29th, 2007 at 2:20 pm

    BOBCAT,
    Thanks for your insights and observations, they are appreciated

  242. Jake November 29th, 2007 at 2:20 pm

    mel,

    maybe…on your question about bedard and haren.

    i think one or the other would be enough. we don’t need to dump our farm on both. at this point, don’t we just need one really good starter?

    i think if we lure in someone like santana, pettitte will come back. otherwise, i doubt pettitte will return because he will realize that the Yankees rotation is sorely lacking and incapable of going the distance (which i believe the would be, personally). Sorry, but a rotation of wang, hughes, joba, and mussina plus kennedy is not one that is going to win the world series. throw pettitte in there and subtract mussina or kennedy and you still wonder if it has what it takes.

  243. Hoffa November 29th, 2007 at 2:21 pm

    Last night Bobcat mentioned that Pete eliminated a lot of his posts, do you guys think Pete may have banned him?

  244. berra8 November 29th, 2007 at 2:21 pm

    mel,

    neshek would close.

  245. Maverick November 29th, 2007 at 2:21 pm

    Jake,

    I agree 100% and I think Hank feels the same way. That is why I don’t think he’ll let any other team get Santana

  246. Matt November 29th, 2007 at 2:22 pm

    Mike R.-

    Glad I’m starting to gain some respect here, rather than have ya’ll ignore me!….

    Personally I am under the impression that Santana will get a lot more value than people think he will, I have seen Tans pitch for years so I know what he is about…He is so good that it gets boring (if that makes sense)…

    From what I have learned in the last couple days I am under the impression that Jackson and Tabata have tons of potential but are not ready to play this year, and ultimately I think the Twins are trying to fill spots at 3B and CF THIS year…If the Twins brass thing that Jackson and Tabata are ready to produce at the MLB level then I would def. prefer to get some bats in Minny and take the lesser pitcher (Kennedy)…

  247. Mike R. November 29th, 2007 at 2:22 pm

    Thanks again Bobcat!

  248. migames November 29th, 2007 at 2:22 pm

    Bobcat:
    would the cubs trade Nathan for Marmol or keep Marmol as their setup guy for a couple of seasons?

  249. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge November 29th, 2007 at 2:23 pm

    The power of altavista.

    At this moment there is no an exchange between the Yankees and the Twin ones. There are many equipment try to acquire Santana by exchange, but now it is not certain where it goes to play in 2008.

    That was my friend when I took college Spanish. It gave me a decient guideline. :)

  250. HOLY $@# !!! November 29th, 2007 at 2:23 pm

    Bobcat:

    Can you confirm or deny that the Twins have sent Johan Santana to Boston for Coco Crisp, Clay Buchholz, Jed Lowrie and Justin Masterson ?

    Or was it Lester instead of Buchholz?

  251. CB November 29th, 2007 at 2:23 pm

    “They’re not going to take five average players. They’re going to get star-caliber guys back, or it’s not going to happen.”

    Mel,

    I agree with you about Stark’s column. The Twins are definitely not going to get back “average” player but what does “it’s not going to happen,” mean?

    Basically that would mean we’ll take the draft picks for santana.

    I don’t see that happening. Trading for prospects helps the twins a lot because they are very hamstrung in the draft. They really will not got over slot unless its very extenuating circumstances.

    The Yankees only pried Betances away from vanderbilt because they drafted him in the 8th round and gave him a $1million signing bonus.

    Minnesota won’t every do that. Trading for guys the yankees have already give large bonuses to is a large advantage to the twins.

    Much more valuable than the draft picks.

  252. sd yankee fan November 29th, 2007 at 2:23 pm

    Everyone saying Johan is going to win 22 plus games in a yankee uniform is crazy,granted theres a chance he could do it but at the same time for him to get a win the hitting has to be on as well also a little bit of help ie bullpen.
    Andy prob should of had 20 wins this year,mo blowing 2 saves,a few other games with the hitting not producing…i want johan to but to realistically expect him to win 22 plus may be asking a bit much.

  253. ~Adam. November 29th, 2007 at 2:23 pm

    ET2010, saw the same stats. read my post earlier. History shows left handed pitching is neutralized at Fenway…. but we all agree Santana is not just any old left handed pitcher.

    Sox don’t need Santana, they’ve got great pitching. Why give up Elisbury a potential great lead off guy AND pay $25mil to get something they already have.

  254. Thrillington November 29th, 2007 at 2:23 pm

    I think Santana is headed for the St. Paul Saints.

  255. Matt November 29th, 2007 at 2:24 pm

    Mel-

    Pat Neshek is probably one of the most NASTY pitchers I have ever seen, he is a sidearmer and wow, truly breath taking…He could easy fill the closer spot…The Twins have the best Bullpen in the league and could easily take the hit…

  256. mel November 29th, 2007 at 2:24 pm

    Jake,

    I don’t know what Pettitte is thinking of, but I’m pretty sure it has something to do with the gang splitting up. I hope his wife wants to put an indoor pool into the house or something. $16M can be rather convenient. I’d be telling my husband, “Get off your butt! You get to hang out with the guys, throw a 100 pitches every five days, and get paid?”

    At some point the Yankees will chase and up the offer. He’ll come back for the last year at Yankee Stadium.

  257. Hoffa November 29th, 2007 at 2:25 pm

    Opps. Guess I was a little slow on the uptake.

  258. Wolf In Pinstripes November 29th, 2007 at 2:26 pm

    Guys –

    “Hay muchos equipos” = There are many teams.

    Equipos = teams.

  259. Mike R. November 29th, 2007 at 2:26 pm

    Thank you Matt. It’s good to get some non-yank, non-sox biased opinions. To answer your questions. Jackson is about a year away and Tabata is probably two. Melky would probably go in any deal to help the CF situation and word has it the Twins will switch Cuddyer to 3B, and look to replace him in the OF.

  260. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 29th, 2007 at 2:26 pm

    1) Bobcat: Thank you!

    2) SJ: Your post from a couple hours ago…

    “Its awfully tough to predict what young pitchers will do. To say Hughes will have a season next year close to Santana is Rebecca-type optimism times ten”

    Is that an insult or a compliment? ;)

  261. CB November 29th, 2007 at 2:26 pm

    Matt,

    I completely agree with you on Neshek. He’s filthy. The kind of guy you watch and just wonder how is anyone going to hit his stuff?

    Any thoughts on how viable/ likely it is for the twins to move Cuddyer to 3rd to fill that void?

  262. Phil November 29th, 2007 at 2:27 pm

    Real Bobcat, thanks for checking in. I think Cashman’s patience will win a good deal for the Yanks.

  263. Miller November 29th, 2007 at 2:27 pm

    Thanks Bobcat!

  264. Wolf In Pinstripes November 29th, 2007 at 2:27 pm

    “I think Santana is headed for the St. Paul Saints.”

    Toledo Mud Hens.

  265. Matt November 29th, 2007 at 2:27 pm

    sd yankee fan-

    I could see Santana winning 22+ easy in New York…The Twins have never had a very good offense, often times with everyday positions filled with the likes of Nick Punto and those types…The Yankees have no holes in that line-up and if you give him 3 runs a game on avg I could see him winning 22+…but you made a good point on the Bullpen, Gardy always keeps Santana on a 100 pitch limit, so he usually is money for 7 innings and after that it’s sketchy…

  266. Mike R. November 29th, 2007 at 2:28 pm

    Wolf – Correct. Equipos = Teams

  267. J-Dawg November 29th, 2007 at 2:28 pm

    Thanks to everyone for translating the Spanish from the earlier post. My Spanish is rusty, I haven’t taken it since 10th Grade. And that was six years ago!

  268. Mike R. November 29th, 2007 at 2:29 pm

    Rebecca – As any optimist knows. When in doubt…take it as a compliment. :D

  269. HOLY $@# !!! November 29th, 2007 at 2:31 pm

    OKAY !!! ANOTHER TRADE PROPOSAL

    (that doesn’t involve JS)

    Okay, so with so many different teams losing CF’s this year, basically a CF-musical chairs this offseason, do you think the Yankees could pawn Damon off on someone, a team that plays in a bandbox, with a relative small amount of ground for him to cover ?

    With two years and $26M left, whose to say, with a few mil tossed in, that wouldn’t net something in return from a desperate team that missed out on Aaron, Mike or Andruw ?

    Who is looking for CF’ers? CHW, PHI, ATL, SAD, TEX and mayb more ?

  270. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") November 29th, 2007 at 2:31 pm

    BC finally speaks

  271. mel November 29th, 2007 at 2:31 pm

    J-dawg,

    The fans here are knowledgeable about baseball, Springsteen (even if some don’t like him), html coding, Sopranos, and now Espanol!

  272. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 29th, 2007 at 2:31 pm

    Mike R. Of course! I shudda known that! :-D

  273. Matt November 29th, 2007 at 2:32 pm

    I don’t like the idea of moving Cuddy to third…He started there when he joined the Majors and I think he just has a mental problem with the position…He just couldn’t hit at 3b for some reason…Though it’s possible that he could have been thrown off by moving around so much at the time (cuddy is pretty versital so we played him in the outfield at first and at third which could have thrown him off as well)…Personally I say if it aint broke don’t fix it…Cuddy is a great player and I would prefer to leave him at RF…(it’s been a while since the twins have had both corner outfield positions filled adequately)

  274. Shamus November 29th, 2007 at 2:32 pm

    I hope the Sox didn’t just get Johan… Better not be any open windows at the Yankees’ main office on the upper floors…

    Thanks for the update ‘Cat…

  275. ET2012 November 29th, 2007 at 2:32 pm

    Adam-

    Lester is a lefty, and he seemed to do preety good at Fenway this year. However, your point merits consideration.

  276. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 29th, 2007 at 2:32 pm

    Mel–You’ve forgotten grammar, history and literature!

  277. mel November 29th, 2007 at 2:33 pm

    oh and smileys…

    :)

  278. J-Dawg November 29th, 2007 at 2:33 pm

    mel- It’s truly amazing how much that you can learn on here. When in doubt about anything, ask a Yankee blogger! :)

  279. Matt November 29th, 2007 at 2:33 pm

    Oh just a fun fact about Cuddy when he joined the Twanks…He brought like 5-6 different gloves with him cause he knew he’d be playing so many positions…I can see how that might mess with a guys head can’t you?…

  280. S.o.S.27 November 29th, 2007 at 2:34 pm

    Any chance the twins wait till Cabrera has been traded before they accept an offer? Lets say Angels land Cabrera, that would make the dodgers more likely to go after Santana. To my knowledge, Dodgers have more to give. So why wouldnt they wait it out?

  281. mel November 29th, 2007 at 2:34 pm

    Rebecca,

    That’s right, American Lit? GMATs (did you get your results?), NFL, NCAA FB, and NBA, too.

  282. migames November 29th, 2007 at 2:37 pm

    Phil Hughes:
    “It’s not like you can get a guy like Santana away from the Twins for nothing,” Hughes said. “It’s nice that other teams think highly of me, but I’m very happy with where I’m at. I’d love to stay. I would definitely be disappointed, but it’s business.”

  283. Retire21 November 29th, 2007 at 2:37 pm

    If Boston Gets Santana without giving up Clay or Ellsbury we Yankees fans can’t say “Well they gave up the farm.But Hopefully thats just a rumor. even though most peope say Boston is in the lead

  284. Mike R. November 29th, 2007 at 2:38 pm

    Matt – I think that their logic is that it is easier to trade for a corner OF that will replace Cuddyers production than it is to find a 3B that can produce what he can. I’m not sure that makes sense.

  285. SJ44 November 29th, 2007 at 2:38 pm

    Rebecca,

    When I wrote it, I knew I should have put in that it was a compliment, which it was, and not a putdown.

    I have ZERO issues with your optimism. My point in the post was to point out it would take optimism at your level (which is, in a healthy way, very high) to predict end of season lines for young pitchers.

    On another note……the Red Sox have not traded for Santana. Do yourselves a favor and ignore NYYFans.com.

    They have no idea what’s going on.

  286. sunny615 November 29th, 2007 at 2:39 pm

    Excerpts from the Keith Law Chat:

    I included this because this one was just funny:

    Mark(Toronto): Keith, hypothetically speaking would a package of Rios, Snider and pitching prospects give the Jays a punchers chance at Santana ? Imagine Halladay, Santana, Burnett and McGowan in a rotation. Who would beat them ?

    Keith Law: (1:07 PM ET ) Everyone would. They’d never score any runs. Besides, the Jays have no pitching prospects to include in such a trade – their best arms are all 2007 draftees who can’t be traded yet.

    ——————-
    Ryan (NJ): Now that the Twins got Young, is acquiring a Melky or Ellsbury less important in a Santana trade?

    Keith Law: (1:08 PM ET ) They still don’t have a centerfielder, so I don’t think that’s true.

    ——————-
    Michael (Phoenixville): Keith, If the Mets are going to unload the farm this Winter, would they be better served in doing it for Haren than Santana, considering they would have Haren locked up for three years at a value price?

    Keith Law: (1:09 PM ET ) Yes, although I think along those lines I’d take Bedard (two years) over Haren (Bedard’s a much better pitcher) or Santana (better than Bedard but just one year left).

    ——————-
    Eric (Boston): The sushi place in Arlington you talk about so much was actually really, really good. Could a Lester, Crisp, Lowrie, and Masterson/Bowden for Santana deal be good enough for the Twins? The Sox wouldn’t really give him $150mil would they???

    Keith Law: (1:16 PM ET ) Good, glad you liked it. Friendly service there too. I think that’s a pretty good deal for the Twins, although I seem to be in the minority on that one. It’s a ton of value, including an everyday shortstop for the next six years (which they need, because Harris is a butcher there) and a potential #2 starter in Lester. I’d be a bit leery about buying into Santana now, given how poorly he ended the season. I’d rather acquire him and see how he throws in 2008.

    ——————-
    Jeremy (Los Angeles): A source with knowledge of the Twins’ position told the Los Angeles Daily News that the club is asking the Dodgers for a package of three or four players from a pool of six: Chad Billingsley, Clayton Kershaw, Matt Kemp, Andy LaRoche, Jonathan Broxton and Andre Ethier in Johan Santana discussions. Source: New York Post

    Keith Law: (1:27 PM ET ) Ned should probably tell them to go pound sand. I’d give up Ethier and probably Broxton (just because relievers are so unpredictable), but even the worst package of those six – Ethier-Broxton-LaRoche – is too much for one year of Santana plus the window.

    ——————-
    Seymour, Brooklyn: Please settle this argument – better pitcher – Lester or Kennedy?

    Keith Law: (1:36 PM ET ) I’d take Lester.

    ——————-
    ooo- he answered my question…

    Sunny (MD): Is Bedard worth a package of Kennedy, Melky and prospect?

    Keith Law: (1:51 PM ET ) Yes.

    ——————-
    Bryant U: Which has the more realistic potential Jackson or Tabata?

    Keith Law: (1:52 PM ET ) Have to go with Jackson, since Tabata’s year ended with the hand/wrist injury.

    —————————————————————————–
    Luis: Hi Keith, tried this question a couple of days ago, but nobody appears to care. In this crazy Santana, Haren, etc. world, What do you think should be the asking price for Kazmir?

    Keith Law: (1:53 PM ET ) No reason they should deal him. They don’t need to save the money, they’re starting to get good, and they have him through 2010.

    ——————-
    yankee fan (SORRY): Am I the only one that feels the yanks will be making the same mistake they’ve made 100 times in the past 10 years? Trading up and coming players that can really help us for once great players that are declining? Santana wasnt nearly as good last year as he was in 06 (not saying he was bad!). Whats better 3 good (not great) years of santana or 8 years of phil hughes in his prime?

    Keith Law: (1:55 PM ET ) Santana was very good this year until the end of August, and then he was bad. That worries me more than just an off year. But yes, to your general point, I think it would be the wrong move on their part to develop some real blue-chip guys and then trade them just as they reach the big leagues. That’s the 1980s Yankees I grew up loving/hating.

    ——————-
    Matt,MPLS : Why do you keep saying “get santana for one year” No team is actually going to trade for him unless he signs an extension, right? That would be stupid

    Keith Law: (2:03 PM ET ) Except that you’re not acquiring those extra years from the Twins. You’re paying Santana something approximating full market value for them, if and only if he agrees to the deal. (I think the union would like to get Santana to free agency so he can push the market up some more.)

    ——————-
    Brian (MN): Is it me, or did I miss something? Bedard is always hurt, Santana has never been hurt?

    Keith Law: (2:05 PM ET ) Santana’s had at least one elbow operation (bone chips). Bedard had TJ surgery, and an oblique strain; he had a full season in 2006 and no arm trouble in 2007. I guess I don’t see how he’s “always” hurt.

    ——————-
    Vinny (Bronx): Clippard, Farnsworth, Igawa, and cash for Haren?

    Keith Law: (2:07 PM ET ) We just keep getting sillier, don’t we?

    ——————-
    Billy Beane (Oakland): Do you think I´m that crazy (I can´t spell the exact word I´m thinking)? Haren for at least 1 prospect A-type & 2 B-type, right?

    Keith Law: (2:13 PM ET ) 1 of each, maybe. I’m a little bit of a Haren skeptic – ballpark and defense helped him a lot. He opens his front shoulder a bit and struggles to get the ball in on lefties, and he doesn’t have a definite swing-and-miss pitch. Good pitcher, no doubt, but more of a 3 than a 1/2. Whether other teams realize that or not is another question.

    ——————-
    Chip (NYC): If the Yankees trade Melky do they A) move Damon back to CF B) Rush Jackson or Gardner C) sign Andruw

    Keith Law: (2:25 PM ET ) A is most likely, but I wouldn’t rule C out. Jackson is definitely not ready, and Gardner is not an everyday player.

    ——————-
    Paul (Bird Island Mn): Crisp, laptop stealer, Jed Lowrie and Oscar Tejada for Santana too much too little or just right?

    Keith Law: (2:30 PM ET ) If I’m Theo, Buchholz is not in the discusion. That’s a dealbreaker.

    ——————-
    Anthony (nyc): whats the word on Mark Melancon? do u like him…future closer

    Keith Law: (2:31 PM ET ) Heard he’s got an invite to major-league spring training and threw well in instructs, so that’s progress. Future late-game reliever, maybe more setup man than closer. Haven’t seen him since the surgery, of course.

    ——————-
    Bo (TX): Bud Selig is on record as saying the idea of Santana in Boston or NY bothers him, the rich get richer kind of thing. Will Selig ever get the guts that the NHL showed and take on the players association to get a salary cap put in place? $305 million (with incentives) after a $252 million contract for A-Rod is ludicrous. Thats almost half a billion in salary.

    Keith Law: (2:32 PM ET ) They’ll lose – the union won’t agree to it, and I don’t the owners are really all that upset about the billions of dollars they’re taking in right now.

    ——————-
    Phil Hughes: I’m the fourth best pitching prospect in the game behind chamberlain, kershaw, buchholz,in that order?

    Keith Law: (2:33 PM ET ) You’re not a rookie any more, so you won’t be on any prospect lists this winter, but yes, I would rank you behind those three guys.

    ——————-
    Tom (Nyack, NY): how did Kevin Whelan pitch this past year? Projection?

    Keith Law: (2:33 PM ET ) He’s a big improvement in control away from being a big-leaguer. Great splitter, though.

    ——————-

  287. CB November 29th, 2007 at 2:40 pm

    If Cuddyer could still play third they would have to move him there. There are just not many good third baseman’s.

    They could find an outfielder or trade for a high upside prospect outfielder. There aren’t many high ceiling third baseman’s and the ones that are around (say an Evan Longoria) aren’t going anywhere.

  288. mel November 29th, 2007 at 2:43 pm

    LOL on the “laptop stealer” reference in the chat. Maybe a more politically correct moniker would be “Stealth”.

  289. Vince November 29th, 2007 at 2:43 pm

    Regardless of what happen with the Santana situation, the Yankees are fully aware that they should never – absolutely never – overlook a viable lefthanded pitching prospect that walks the face of the earth. They’re just too hard to come by.
    SJ 44 has emphasized the fact in many of his postings and nobody can find disagreement with it. Johan Santana has no equal among lefthanders yet any of 30 major league teams can put at least one righthanded starter on the mound they can feel good about.

  290. Maverick November 29th, 2007 at 2:44 pm

    Well that answers my question about Whelan. What about Wordekemper, he had low walks but low strikeouts as well? Any chance he gets a call-up?

  291. Jake November 29th, 2007 at 2:47 pm

    Maverick,

    I’m not saying I fully advocate trading for Santana because the price is just ridiculous, though he would obviously help out a lot.

    I guess the question Yankee management has to ask themselves is whether it is THAT important for them to try to win it next year and whether they truly believe that Johan Santana can give them that opportunity. I’m not entirely convinced he can.

    If they get Johan, bring back Pettitte, and somehow put together a phenomenal bullpen, then it is reasonable to consider going all the way. But they are a ways off from fielding a championship caliber team.

  292. SJ44 November 29th, 2007 at 2:48 pm

    I love the worry about Santana.

    In 33 starts last year, he had 4, FOUR games in which he gave up 4 or more runs.

    Let that sink for a minute when folks tell you he is on the “downside”.

    If that is his “downside”, I’ll gladly take it.

    Commenting about one bad month from Johan Santana is like people saying Arod is on the “downside” after his “bad” 2006 season.

    Sometimes, I really wonder if some of these guys on ESPN ever read their own stuff.

  293. mel November 29th, 2007 at 2:48 pm

    You guys have to check out this video:

    http://sports.espn.go.com/broa.....8;n8pe6c=2

    Now, I’m not a LaRussa hater nor do I condone drinking and driving. But I cracked up when I saw LaRussa trying to recite the alphabet.

  294. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 29th, 2007 at 2:49 pm

    SJ: Thanks! =)

    I’ve been called delusional before…and I’m not really going to deny it…

  295. LCâ„¢ November 29th, 2007 at 2:49 pm

    Heyman just said on wfan it’s pretty much between the yanks and red sox, nothing about Boston being ahead. He also said the Twins are insisting on Ellsbury still.

  296. Maverick November 29th, 2007 at 2:50 pm

    I think Pettitte remembers April/May where it was him and a bunch of kids who didn’t have the skills to get big leaguers out and he was the only guy pitching 6-7 innings for awhile. I think if he knows the Yankees have Santana and Wang along with a couple kids and Moose he would be excited to come back and finish his career with another championship.

  297. ~Adam. November 29th, 2007 at 2:50 pm

    SJ44-

    Agreed. Santana + our offense = WINS WINS WINS WINS.

  298. SJ44 November 29th, 2007 at 2:50 pm

    If the Yankees got Santana, Pettitte returns, and Viz is re-signed, they are one of the two favorites to win the WS.

    Look at that team.

    An entire offense back that scored 968 runs.

    A starting rotation of: Santana, Wang, Pettitte, Chamberlain, Moose/Kennedy (assuming Hughes goes in the deal).

    Mo to close, along with Viz, Farnsworth and plenty of young arms in the bullpen.

    That’s a pretty formidable team.

    Its also got the right balance of youth and veterans.

  299. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") November 29th, 2007 at 2:50 pm

    so nothing new ?

  300. Mike R. November 29th, 2007 at 2:51 pm

    LC – “We hear what they want us to hear”

  301. El Comaduce November 29th, 2007 at 2:51 pm

    In 33 starts last year, he had 4, FOUR games in which he gave up 4 or more runs.

    but he is trending down next year might be 5 games…

    hahhahahaahhahahhahahahahahahahhaha

    I dont want to send hughes…

    I dont think Boston will pay Santana

  302. Shamus November 29th, 2007 at 2:52 pm

    NEW PETE POST !!!

  303. Maverick November 29th, 2007 at 2:52 pm

    No way Boston gets Santana without Ellsbury. Why would they want Crisp? He is a league average player making a decent salary. He is no better than Melky who is making a fraction of the amount he is. They could sign a guy like Cameron who is probably better than Crisp and probably more cost efficient too (even though he wouldn’t be available to start the season)

  304. Retire21 November 29th, 2007 at 2:53 pm

    Mel-

    LOL.

  305. G. Love November 29th, 2007 at 2:54 pm

    If the Red Sox land Santana I will officially cry and curl up in the fetal position and possibly suck my thumb.

  306. Shamus November 29th, 2007 at 2:55 pm

    SJ44–

    I have to ask… What is your ideal/fair/likely/sensible package for Johan…

    Judging from your last post, it includes Hughes. Melky too? Who else?

    Just curious…

    My line in the sand ends at Hughes, Melky, Horne and Tabata… Thats it, take it or leave it. If they want Jackson instead of Tabata, then they have to include Nathan…

  307. SJ44 November 29th, 2007 at 2:55 pm

    I don’t understand the concept of some media people talking about who’s “ahead” on a possible trade.

    There is either a deal or no deal.

    Its not a race.

    It isn’t…… “Cashman coming up on the far turn, bringing Hughes with him and he noses Theo and Lester at the wire”!!

    You either make a deal or you don’t. There is no “leader”. When/if the Twins feel they get what they want, they pull the trigger.

    My $.02 on what we see today. The Twins are using the Sox to see if the Yankees blink and offer more than they have or they can engage another team(s) in the talks.

    Absent that happening, they will have to make the call. Trade him or keep him.

    Its not a horse race. Its just about making the best decision you can for your team.

  308. SJ44 November 29th, 2007 at 2:58 pm

    Shamus,

    I talked about this last night….

    If I am Cashman, I sit on Kennedy, Melky, Horne and Tabata for Santana as long as I can. If they go for it, great.

    If I get to the point where the Twins tell me, “Put in Hughes and we do the deal”, I take out Kennedy, put in Hughes, and do the deal.

    I don’t do that until I am forced to and I don’t trade both Kennedy and Hughes.

    Now, whether he can do it or not is another issue.

    If I was the GM though, that’s how I would play it.

  309. Pete the repeat parrot November 29th, 2007 at 2:58 pm

    I remain cautiously optimistic that somehow posters everywhere will finally realize that Johan Santana and his agent do in fact hold the trump card to finalize any deal. The agreed upon players is only step #1 in the process.

  310. Hankenstein November 29th, 2007 at 2:59 pm

    i justed wanted to try out my new nickname for Hank. I saw it over at an Orioles blog and cracked up.

  311. mel November 29th, 2007 at 3:01 pm

    Saw that one used by one of the ESPN guys (Neyer?) in a chat and cracked up.

  312. Phil November 29th, 2007 at 3:01 pm

    SJ44

    I think that’s exactly what Cash will do. He is tremendously patient.

  313. Shamus November 29th, 2007 at 3:04 pm

    I’d say we are in the same boat. Start low (Kennedy, Horne, Melky, Tabata) and at worst, last ditch effort, sub Hughes for Kennedy and buy high.

    The best pitcher in the last 5 years doesn’t come along at a discount…

    The NYY would still have a rotation of Johan, Wang, Moose, Joba and IPK, with plenty of reserves.

    How do they fill CF then? Damon for a year, then Jackson? Or Rowand, Jones, if years are right?

  314. Shamus November 29th, 2007 at 3:06 pm

    I value defense in CF… Mike Cameron until the youth movement is ready?

  315. SJ44 November 29th, 2007 at 3:07 pm

    Its Cash’s greatest strength as a GM. He waits it out, works in a stealth manner, and is patient.

    That’s what you have to do in big deals.

    I clearly remember Jayson Stark saying on ESPN a few years ago, “The Yankees will NEVER get Bobby Abreu with the lousy package of players being offered. He is going to the Red Sox”.

    We all know how that turned out.

    Abreu and Santana are similar in a couple of ways. One, they are friends and are both from the same country. Two, they both had no trades and a firm idea of where they wanted to go. That dictated the deal.

    That may be the case here, although it will cost more to get Santana because he is more valuable (in the marketplace) than Abreu.

    The similarities in each deal though are interesting to see.

  316. swo November 29th, 2007 at 3:08 pm

    I forget who asked about Wordekemper, but I’ll answer the question:

    Basically, Wordekemper is a low-ceiling reliever who has been pitching to kids a good 4 years younger than him. He will meet real opposition next season at Trenton (which I can only assume he’s headed to), and that will be his real test. If he can handle them the way he handled the AFL, then he could be on his way to the Bronx by 2009. But he’s basically a control pitcher with lousy stuff who has succeeded in fooling a bunch of children to date.

  317. El Comaduce November 29th, 2007 at 3:08 pm

    no need for the fetal position… If we dont make the trade, we will have a strong rotation… We beat Becks, we have beat yohan..

    Our rotation will be much stronger next year – cashman has done a wondeful job with the farm team..

  318. keith November 29th, 2007 at 3:08 pm

    Keith LAw….Haren is a “#3″ yet Lester is a “2″. wtf

  319. SJ44 November 29th, 2007 at 3:11 pm

    You can do Damon/Gardner Shamus if Jackson isn’t included in the deal.

    I wouldn’t touch Andruw Jones and I don’t see the Yankees playing with Boras on that one.

    Rowand? Wants too much money for his skill set. Running into walls is nice but, its not worth 15 million bucks a year.

    I would have no fear playing Damon/Gardner in CF.

    Cameron? The 25 game suspension bothers me. Not because he’s a bad guy. He isn’t. He is one of the nicest guys in the game and just took a bad supplement. It happens more than folks think.

    I just think a guy that misses that much time has a hard time catching up when you are over 35.

  320. Shamus November 29th, 2007 at 3:13 pm

    True…

    Gotta do some naked squats…

    Be back…

  321. ~Adam. November 29th, 2007 at 3:14 pm

    Keith-

    That;s what I hate aabout sports sometimes. By all accounts today is a slow sports day, but ESPN still has to fill the air. So you get garbage commentators who will say anything.

    I pay them no mind. I usually listen to music during games. Can’t stand baseball announcers.

  322. Phil November 29th, 2007 at 3:15 pm

    SJ 44

    Abreu and Santana also have the same agent… a deal with Kennedy is better than what we offeref for Abreu by a mile.

  323. YankeesLuv November 29th, 2007 at 3:16 pm

    Save Phil Hughes!!! :(

  324. El Comaduce November 29th, 2007 at 3:19 pm

    I have no problem spending yankee money. But we dont need andruw jones in center – i dont mind stars, but we need a couple of guys who can hit behind the runner…

  325. hmmm November 29th, 2007 at 3:22 pm

    “Abreu and Santana also have the same agent… a deal with Kennedy is better than what we offeref for Abreu by a mile.”

    Santana is also better than Abreu by a mile.

  326. LathamJoe November 29th, 2007 at 3:24 pm

    Jon Heyman (Sports Illustrated) on Mike and The Moron basically saying the same thing that Bobcat has posted.
    “Boston and New York are the main players in the Santana Sweeps, with The Dodgers on the periphery and the Mets seemingly out. Minnesota impressed with Boston package but insist on Ellsbury instead of Crisp.”

    Murphydog:”The Kansas City Royals were the team the Yankees used to use as a AAAA club, parking talent there, trading with them on sweetheart terms”. I’m probably a bit older than you so I recall that it was the Kansas city Athletics (now the Oakland A’s) who used to be the AAA club that the Yankees would use to acquire talent, such as: Clete Boyer, Roger Maris, Bobby Shantz, Virgil Trucks, Bud Daley, etc.
    They used to farm out young talent to the A’s for a few years (Ralph Terry comes to mind) let them develop and reacquire them for a bunch of B-level prospects and plenty of cash!

  327. Phil November 29th, 2007 at 3:25 pm

    hmmmm

    no question about it. A Kennedy/Melky, etc. offer is also better than Henry/Smith/J Sanchez/Carlon M. by a mile.

  328. coney12 November 29th, 2007 at 3:28 pm

    Olney just updated on the ESPN website that it looks like Santana will likely end up in Boston for Lester, Bowden, Crisp and another player. This utterly ridiculous. I thought for years Cashman has been posturing to acquire Santana and now he will likely go the freakin Bosox for that garbage. Are you telling me Hughes, Cabrera, and say Alan Horne can’t beat that package?

  329. bskul November 29th, 2007 at 3:29 pm

    teams hate the yankees and they don’t hate the red sox. thats what pretty much comes down to it. that trade is pure garbage.

  330. Jax November 29th, 2007 at 3:35 pm

    That is ridiculous if that deal goes through. Red Sox give these teams crap all the time and they accept it.

  331. CB November 29th, 2007 at 3:35 pm

    That’s not what olney was saying in his update. He said the sox and twins were discussing a deal with those players:

    “The Red Sox and Twins are discussing the framework of a Johan Santana deal that would have Boston sending four players to Minnesota in return for the two-time Cy Young Award winner, including center fielder Coco Crisp, pitcher Jon Lester and minor-league shortstop Jed Lowrie, the trio that would to anchor the deal.”

    Then he said that there would still be the issue of the extension to work out:

    “Even if the Red Sox and Twins agree on the framework for a deal — and as of early Thursday afternoon, that hadn’t happened — Boston would still face an enormous hurdle to complete the contract.”

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3133598

  332. Phil November 29th, 2007 at 3:36 pm

    I call BS on Olney’s report.

  333. CaptainsCorner November 29th, 2007 at 3:37 pm

    So your the Twins and you trade the best pitcher in baseball and do not get back 1 top prospect. Yeah that makes a lot of sense. Crisp is the best thing they are getting back..just pathetic!!! Cash better cancel his Posada call and concentrate on Santana.

  334. YankeeFan November 29th, 2007 at 3:37 pm

    even if sox come up with better chips than the yanks, it’s up to santana to decide.
    i hope we get him withought having to give up hughes, but i’ll take an almost-29 yr old bona-fide ace over a 22 yr old could-be-ace anytime. the yanks have the money and, now, the replacement farm talent to do it.
    i hope santana really does want to come to new york.
    can’t wait…

  335. CB November 29th, 2007 at 3:40 pm

    What’s the big deal about the Twins talking to Boston – you knew this was going to happen. It’s the twins duing their due diligence and driving to get teams to bid against each other.

    Don’t panic. Let’s see. If santana doesn’t want to go to boston it doesn’t happen

  336. CaptainsCorner November 29th, 2007 at 3:41 pm

    Also it would cost the Twins $11m more to take Crisp then Melky would cost them. Lester is a decent prospect but no one can tell me that $11m for Crisp and Lester is better then top prospects Hughes/Kennedy plus Horne or Tabata/Jackson deal.

  337. Phil November 29th, 2007 at 3:44 pm

    And that they will end up trading Santana at all is a monunment to their own cheapness. Thats the ultimate price for not giving a crap about the fan base who are giving you a giant ATM in the form of a new stadium. If the Twins want value, they should nut up and pay Johan. They don’t, though.

  338. Jax November 29th, 2007 at 3:46 pm

    How the heck can the Twins even think of accepting that kind of package from the Sox without the Sox giving up any of their top prospects? Strange!

  339. Phil November 29th, 2007 at 3:49 pm

    They couldn’t be, is the answer. This is brinksmanship designed to get the Yanks to give up Hughes.

  340. ~Adam. November 29th, 2007 at 3:51 pm

    This Boston stuff is BS.

    Cashman won’t blink. If anything he should LOWER the offer to match Boston’s.

  341. CaptainsCorner November 29th, 2007 at 3:52 pm

    Stark on ESPN just said that he expects him to eventually go to the Yanks. With a package of Hughes, Melky plus plus. He doesn’t think a deal with anyone is close and Boston would have to offer more then that deal appears to be. I will believe him before I believe that the Twins will take nothing for him.

  342. Retire21 November 29th, 2007 at 4:00 pm

    How is Lest better then Kennedy or Hughes and how is Coco Crisp much better then Melky.

  343. bottom line November 29th, 2007 at 4:11 pm

    If I’m Bill Smith and I accept limp-arm Coco Crisp and a mediocre Jon Lester for Santana, I’ve gotta be the biggest bozo since the Cincy GM (Bill DeWitt?) who traded Frank Robinson for Milt Pappas.

    I only hope Yanks don’t panic and offer Hughes. With the pitching talent NY has there are almost infinite combinations (excluding Hughes and Joba) of four or five Yankee prospects that would blow this Boston offer out of the water.

    But posters are correct — Boston has managed to get several players on the cheap. They’re also known for trading injured players. Remember Brandon Lyon? I’d be leery of trading with that gang.

  344. Mel (Welcome Back) November 29th, 2007 at 4:21 pm

    I just hope the Yankees hold out because if Johan really wants to come to NY there is no need to give everyone up.

  345. Matt November 29th, 2007 at 5:18 pm

    If this deal on ESPN is legit I will freak out as a Twins fan!…This will completely ruin the Twins future and Twins fans will not except this bogus crap…Bill Smith is a goner if he pulls that deal…

  346. Bart November 29th, 2007 at 5:57 pm

    make the trade – you have no idea if Hughes and IPK combined wil give you 15 wins and 200 innings much less be potentially dominant in the Post Season — Santana is a LEFTY in YANKEE STADIUM – PROVEN

    Trade Huges for Santana and Chamerlain or IPK for Haren and when Jeter Posada, Damon, and MO all loose 3 steps and bat speed over 3 years you have pitching staff with these and Wang to go with a depleted offense and dodering defense centered on ARod and Cano. Two of the young guys in the stack in the minors have an equal chance of making the Bigs

    REMEMBER – WILSON, ISRINGHAUSEN etc REMEMBER

Leave a comment below


Sponsored by:
 

Search

    Advertisement

    Follow

    Mobile

    Read The LoHud Yankees Blog on the go by navigating to the blog on your smartphone or mobile device's browser. No apps or downloads are required.

Advertisement

Place an ad

Call (914) 694-3581