Another day, another round of rumors
-
- November
- 29
A few non-Santana items for you:
Along with Ron Mahay, LaTroy Hawkins is on the radar for the Yankees. They also want to bring Luis Vizcaino back. There also seems to be hope that a new pitching coach and manager can revitalize Krazy Kyle Farnsworth. Good luck with that.
There is a market, believe it or not, for Kei Igawa. But until the Yankees see what happens with Andy Pettitte and Santana, they want to hang on to the lefty.
As for Santana:
The Mets are not in this. They are not trading Jose Reyes and his team-friendly deal. Mike Pelfrey and Phil Humber are not getting it done.
I have no evidence of this yet, but the Red Sox are probably in this only to make it hurt for the Yankees. Great as Santana is, do they really want to add a $20 million starter? Pitching is not an issue for them.
The Yankees are more likely competing with Anaheim or Seattle or maybe the Dodgers.
This idea to chase Danny Haren instead of Santana makes some sense in that Haren is signed. But Billy Beane would make it hurt.
Do you realize that Eric Duncan was left unprotected for the Rule 5 Draft? I’d be surprised if anybody takes him. As all this Santana stuff swirls, it’s a lesson on placing too much value on your own prospects. None us can be sure that any of these kids, including Joba Chamberlain, will be good moving forward.
That said, I don’t trade Phil Hughes. I’ll take 15 wins and 175 innings for $400,000 than 18 wins and 215 innings for $20 million.
Finally, there is talk that Hank Steinbrenner will go to the Winter Meetings at some point.
————
The Yankees will (finally) announce their deal with Jorge Posada today. Presumably Brian Cashman will emerge and take questions on the conference call.
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on Thursday, November 29th, 2007 at 11:41 am by Peter Abraham.
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i can haz a johan?
Wow Peter are you saying Cashman is not at the winter meetings?
Seattle might trade for Santana? Seriously?
http://www.twincities.com/ci_7584709?source=most_viewed
the sox are supposedly in the lead for Santana, if they get him without giving Ellsbury nor Buchholz, this is gonna suck, as much as i like Hugues, maybe we should trade him.
I can haz a Phil Hughes?
There’s a baseball team in Seattle ? I’ll be damned…
Manny– Don’t believe that Pioneer Press crap. Go to Pete’s last entry, and read the comments section from about 8 am until 9 am…
I was worried too when I first saw that… Don’t worry!!!
Shamus,
Yeah.. they’ve got uniforms and everything! It’s really great!
Maybe Cashman, while undoubtedly working hard, is on a quasi-vacation. Dude deserves it. He has probably already lost 10-15 years off his lifespan working for the Steinbrenners. High stress atmosphere and I wouldn’t be surprised if he takes shots of generic vodka between innings to cope with the darkness.
What about the rumors that Nathan will be included in the deal for Santana and the Yankees will give up Mark Melancon? I hope they are not true.
That will really get interesting if Hank decides to come to the Winter Meetings. Hank making an appearance combined with Cashman’s hiding means that something major will go down. I just hope that whatever happens doesn’t cost the Yankees the services of Phil Hughes. I also need to go to Nashville next week to see what’s happening. It won’t be any trouble for me to go at all.
Where is the Bobcat?
I wonder if that guy is for real.
Having said that, since Peter has been off the radar, I’ll take whatever juicy rumor material I can find.
i actually just commented that in the earlier posting… I was surprised the Mariners have been as quiet as they’ve been with the Johan sweepstakes. They have the prospects to make a deal work, and have a big company behind the team, Nintendo, that can afford him if they want.
They’ve got King Felix at the top… it would be as potent a 1-2 as if Johan went to Boston, just that we wouldnt see the team as much.
and with Anaheim making moves to distance themselves in the division, a non-move by Seattle could seal their fate before the season starts.
It doesnt surprise me that there is a market for Igawa, being as though he’s signed to such a market-friendly deal. he’s not a Dice-K, but he is a pretty good back of the rotation option, especially in some of the pitcher parks in the NL.
I just hope Cashman stays the course… no Joba and no Hughes.
Man Pete…..Ichiro was seriously considering moving to the Yankees after his deal with Seattle? Wow. He’s a great, great player. Probably could have worked about 30 HRs into his .350 BA, too, in Yankee Stadium. I wonder how many runs he’d have scored in that line-up??
Cashman’s in full bore stealth/ninja mode right now….wheeling and dealing with the Twins and other teams trying to land us the biggest prizes left this offseason.
Manny– correction, read last post comments from 8:48 am until just past 9:30 am.
Looks liek ol’ Shooter Charley Walters wasn’t shooting from his hip on that one, but more like from his arse.
ON ANOTHER NOTE—————-
Pete, I was against it from the beginning, but after someone imprsonated me last night and made crude comments to Jen Hip Hip Jorge, I am all for registration on this site.
That, and it will prob keep most of the Idiots outta here…
To quote William Wallace (kind of…)
“You can tell my enemies, they can make me register… BUT THEY’LL NEVER TAKE AWAY OUR BLOG !!!!”
Igawa stinks, he should have no bearing on what happens with Andy. If someone offers a decent package you do it. Andy is a High #2 Igawa is a #6.
Speaking of Rule 5 draft are there any other suprises from o ther teams on those that were left unprotected and also where do the Yanks draft in the rule 5. Not that I expect anything out ofit but you never know.
I’m kind of upset that Duncan was not included on the 40-man…I just wrote a feature article for pinstripes plus magazine about him-and it appears as though he could get picked up by another team. All that work for nothin
Anyway, I still think that the Yanks are in the lead for Santana, plain and simple. They have more to offer the Twins (minus the Dodgers) and the money to pay for him. Throw in the fact that Santana has supposedly stated that he wants to pitch in New York-and well, you may have yourself a perfect match.
If only the Yanks could hang onto Hughes-that would be perfect.
I say if they have to have Hughes, they have to have Farnsworth too.
edit button please. Andy should have no bearing on what happens with Kei.
~Adam,
That could be a deal breaker for Minny. Just kidding, I still see a glimmer of hope with Farnsy.
And as for Igawa, I think he’ll be better in his second year in the league.
I love all the Yankees.
Mahay, Hawkins…garbage…just not enough quality relievers out there.
no one is going to pick up Eric Duncan and keep him on their 25 man roster for the entire season. what would be the point? he can’t hit and he can’t field.
i hope he breaks out this year and things click, but he is light years from the majors.
Maybe Kei Igawa will be better next year now that he knows what to expect from Major League hitters. He needs to make the necessary adjustments such as coming inside and to stop throwing meatballs when he has two strikes on a hitter. He could be useful if he gets his location on the mark. He’s really a wild card at this point.
With the depth the Yankees have, even after a Johan deal, Igawa to me is a non-factor. If they can move him to get a positional prospect, I’d make the deal regardless of what happens with Johan or Pettitte.
Pete: agree with you on all fronts. If Phil Franchise is good for 13-15 wins, why blow all that cake on Santana. Also agree re Red Sox. More important than that they don’t need another pitcher is that what do they do with Beckett when his contract is up if Santana is already making $22 mil (plus). As with the Yanks, there is a limit to the number of $20 mil guys you can handle on a roster.
To that last point: right now, the Yanks have (or will have) $168 million locked up in ten guys. You add Santana’s $22 mils (plus) you’re talking $190 for eleven guys. That’s absurd.
1. Giambi $23
2. Jeter $21
3. ARod $27
4. Mussina $11
5. Jorge $13
6. Mo $15
7. Pettitte $16
8. Abreu $16
9. Matsui $13
10. Damon $13
Joe G has mentioned Farnsworth more than once since being hired. Bsaically the only specific mention he’s made of the current team.
Perhaps there is hope!
Out for a smoke, back in a few. Got this stuff piling up too… work… You guys ever have to deal with this work crap?!??!?!
Liquor order due !
Wine order due !
Back in an hour… call/text me at 207-867-5309 if anything goes down… Will be in basement of bar doing liquor inventory and counting kegs, all the while trying to catch my dishwahsers burning tree down there !!
Kei Igawa will be a fine average major league pitcher in the near future, pitching in the NL that is. He is nothing more than an emergency starter, possible Loogy for the Yankees.
Of course there’s a market for Igawa. He’s been an ace pitcher in Japan, he’s got strikeout potential and he’s had some games that were not completely awful. Some GMs out there might think they can fix this guy and dupe Cashman.
I’m glad we’re hanging onto Farnsworth. I know he’s been underpeforming, but we all see signs of greatness.
Farnworth’s attitude is what really got him into trouble last year, and I think it could be the result of bad coaching from Guidry. I believe that Farnsworth can shine next year under Eiland.
While I’m out defending the downtrotten, do you think the Yanks will give Pavano another shot?
Many things have changed in the last few months. It feels like the corporate culture and attitude of the team has been reinvigorated:
We’ve got a whole new coaching staff, crazy Hank at the helm, and A-Rod is no longer in limbo. There’s no telling how an underperformer will do using a different combination of ingredients.
KLev- you paying the bill?
I dont understand why fans care about what the Yankees spend on the team. The ticket prices and beer prices are going to be high, regardless of if they have a $100 million payroll or a $250 million payroll.
be grateful the owner is willing to put money back into the team to win… its something that right now Twins fans should be protesting Twins ownership for right now, as they watch their Ace get traded away.
I think the point is that worst-case scenario, if there is no Andy and no Johan then we have Wang, Moose, & the Big 3 who really can’t go 200 innings each. That means being creative until a viable solution is found (o.k. bought or traded for). That means that we’ll have to mix & match from the Rasner, Karstens, & Igawa pool of talent. Not ideal but entirely possible.
hmmmm:
I wouldn’t be so sure. He turned a corner late last season and improved upon his defense at first. He also hit well in the clutch and with men on, so there should be some interest in him. Plus, he has had the entire off season to rest and condition-unlike the previous two where he spent time in the AFL.
One last thing… you know what I like about Krazy Kyle?
Maybe I’ve been in the bar business too long, but I love how Farnsworth isn’t afraid to fight anyone… That dud has been in some brawls in his heyday, none yet with the NYY.
Now, he did turn his back on Jorge this year during a mound discuission, and he’s openly criticized Joe Torre, but there is a non-corporate fire in the belly of Krazy Kyle that I like…
Call me crazy, I guess….
Now I really am outty like an Audi… Back later…
Dan, who are you talking about?
KLev-
Your point is why I think the Yanks are going to package one of these guys for something. But next year Santana is owed like $13m I think. The extension takes effect for ‘09. Some of those guys, Giambi, Moose, Damon are likely gone.
Bobcat! Bobcat! Bobcat!
pavano cant even pitch till the end of the summer i think. but if next year he wants to start in single A and make 100 grand id give him a shot and the year after that he can head to AA for 105,000
“I’ll take 15 wins and 175 innings for $400,000″
the only thing that is certain in that sentance is the money…as is the same with johan, but johan has proven that he can win in the major league level and stay healthy. Hughes, or Joba, or IPK have not. Thats why you make these trades.
Gayle, last time I looked NYY was drafting 18th. Teams with full 40 man rosters can’t draft. It may have changed in the last 5 days.
Turn Two: wish I could be paying those kind of bills, but point is: is there no shame? As a Yank fan for more than 30 yrs, I’d like to see us win with our guys, not buying it all. Remember the 90s? We weren’t packed with big-name free agents. That binge started with Giambi, and look where it’s gotten us (reminds me of the 80s with the likes of Dave Collins and even Dave Winfield, great as he was).
Remember, with luxury tax, amount is considerably more than just payroll.
KLev
I understand what you’re saying but Santana for 2008 is 13 million not 22. The Yankees would work an extension so big money may not start until 2009. Also some of those you listed have deferred money so those numbers go down somewhat.
Yankees also save 30% revenue sharing money because of the stadium being built so instead of helping other teams pay for players next year, they can use it to pay their own players.
Rich - Hughes was the only Yankee pitcher with a playoff win this year.
Mel:
I’m answering hmmmm’s comments about Eric Duncan
Bobcat! Bobcat! Bobcat!
again, i’m really not interested in the payroll. the only way i figure people really care about the specifics of payroll is because they care about fans of other teams who point it out to be annoying, and i could care less about what other fans think about the yankees’ spending habits.
i understand that the core of the team was made up of homegrown players, and there is a certain feeling of pride associated with being able to say that… but reality is that you use the farm system to develop talent to help you at the mlb level, as well as help you obtain pieces to build around your current team to take you to the next level.
SJ44 explained this the other day i think perfectly.
hey Shamus,
I said the same thing a few months ago about Krazy Kyle… that we should had a brawler specialist. to come out of the bullpen and start a fight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
At the time I posted a couple of awesome brawl videos with him…
KLev-
Also, these are different times though. That Yanks can spend a lot, they just need to spend wisely.
And beginning ‘09 the Yanks have a new beautiful stadium with all those high priced luxury boxes that all those wall streeters are going to buy up. Plus the YES network. Plus if they’re looking for a little extra, sell the naming rights for a cool hundred million.
I don’t think they’ll be hurting for cash, at least as long as they’re the NEW YORK Yankees.
KLEV-
If anything, I think the Yanks might blow everyone else out of the water financially, that MLB will have to do something along the lines of the NBA like a soft cap and equal dollar values in trades.
Several points…..
1. Its dangerous ground to predict 15 wins from Phil Hughes, or any young pitcher, for that matter.
Dice-K, a guy who certainly came more heralded, and is way more experienced than Hughes, barely got to 15 wins on a World Championship team.
Its awfully tough to predict what young pitchers will do. To say Hughes will have a season next year close to Santana is Rebecca-type optimism times ten.
That’s a lot of pressure to put on a kid who has yet to show he can stay healthy for an entire professional season.
As much potential as Hughes possesses, he can’t be the guy that stands between the Yankees getting Santana. Clearly, Cashman would rather not include him in the deal. However, if it reaches the point where its Hughes or no deal, you have to make that deal.
2. Re: Farnsworth, you have to give Girardi/Eiland the shot. If he thinks he can “fix” him, you try it. If it doesn’t work out, he can be dealt at the deadline. You can’t teach 98 with a 90 MPH slider. Who knows, maybe the combo of a new manager and pitching coach, coupled with him being in the final year of his contract, propels him to have a salary drive-type year.
If the Yankees decided to deal him now, all they would be doing is paying another team for that privlidge since nobody was assuming his entire contract.
By the trade deadline in ‘08, his contract is much more managable for a team to take on if they chose to deal him.
3. Ignore the Pioneer Press story. Its nonsense.
I don’t think Kyle Farnsworth is a lost cause. I think Gator and Torre were probably not a good match for him, and I’d like to see what Girardi might be able to do with him. Let’s not forget how in the LDS in 1995, Showalter mismanaged the bullpen, practically sitting Wetteland. And the combination of Rivera to Wetteland worked very well the following year.
I am not being revisionist on Wetteland. He wasn’t called “Zantac John” for nothing, but they made the combination–with Nelson as well, mind you–work for the best and I believe the same could be possible with Kyle.
Regarding Santana, I hate this possible trade more and more each day. I respect and believe what Pete says about prospects. And I appreciate what he says about gladly taking 15 wins and 175 innings over 18 wins and 200 innings.
Personally, I believe he might very well end up with the Dodgers. He would have much more longevity in the NL and they’ve got the money and the players to make this work.
“That said, I don’t trade Phil Hughes. I’ll take 15 wins and 175 innings for $400,000 than 18 wins and 215 innings for $20 million.”
Peter:
On what basis would you project 18 wins, pitching for the best offense in baseball and half your games in a “lefthander” friendly Yankee Stadium?? And not even mentioning the value of having Santana as the No. one pitcher during Post Season!
Wang has won 19 games for two straight years with the Yankees - Santana will win less???
Hey guys, I’m a huge Twins fan I thought I’d join the convo with you guys…
Bobcat I was wondering who are the potential players in a Joe Nathan trade…
And by players I mean teams LOL…prolly could have phrased that better…
I wonder if Igawa will be included in a Santana trade. They need MLB ready talent right? They’ll be looking for pitching right? Why not a Igawa, Kennedy, Melky (plus lower prospect or two) package? I would actually think that would look pretty good to the Twins. Igawa only makes $4 mill a year so he’d fit their price range.
Speaking of the the 1995 ALDS, that had to be one of the best baseball series I have ever seen (with the wrong ending, of course).
Does anyone know if all five games exist anywhere on DVD? Would love to re-watch them in their completion if possible.
“Speaking of the the 1995 ALDS, that had to be one of the best baseball series I have ever seen (with the wrong ending, of course).
Does anyone know if all five games exist anywhere on DVD? Would love to re-watch them in their completion if possible.”
Im happy with the 1st two games, i could care less for the other games
Matt
Bobcat said NL Central but couldn’t get specific. We guessed Brewers and Cubs.
Matt - We are not accepting new applicants. This is a very exclusive clu. I kindly ask you to leave sir.
I’m kidding of course. Bobcat has mentioned that the most probable destination for Nathan is the NL Central. Two teams that have the position players available that the Twins covet.
I still think there is a false market out there for Santana, as none of the teams linked to him are interested in giving the prospects the Twins want (Ellsbury being the most obvious). The Yankees are bidding against themselves. So, how can Cashman turn in his favor? Openly initiate serious talks for Haren. If the Twins won’t take a package topped by IPK, maybe the A’s will.
At the very least, the appearance of another prime pitching target will call the Twins’ hand and bring this to a head. Cashman has a little more power in this situation than at first meets the eye.
SJ - totally agreed on your point #2.
I would like to think that Farnsworth is one of those guys that could benefit from having Eiland around to iron things out with him.
Sometimes, folks have revisionist history when they look back on the Dynasty Era.
Yes, that era had homegrown players such as Bernie, Jeter, Pettitte, Mo, and Posada.
They also had guys like O’Neill, Tino, Brosius, Knoblauch, Justice, Clemens, Stanton, Nelson, etc, who were acquired via trade. Often using hyped propsects to make those deals.
Add to it the FA acquisitions and you had the makings of a dominant team.
That’s how you build teams. With a mix of players.
Nobody who competes these days do only with homegrown players.
The Yankees build a farm system to amass talent. Some of it helps the parent team. Others are packaged in the right deals for the right players.
When you have a 200 million dollar payroll, a new stadium on the horizon, and the core of your team are veterans, you aren’t going to amass an “all farm team” ballclub.
Just not how you build a winner.
If the Yankees acquire Santana, they have enough depth in the system to absorb the loss incurred to get him. They will also have the best pitcher in baseball, still under 30 years old, on their roster.
Can’t ask for much more than that.
Matt-
Bobcat was saying NL Central. Think Cubs.
where the hell is Bobcat today ?
“I wouldn’t be so sure. He turned a corner late last season and improved upon his defense at first. He also hit well in the clutch and with men on, so there should be some interest in him. Plus, he has had the entire off season to rest and condition-unlike the previous two where he spent time in the AFL.”
do you really see a team carrying him on their 25 man roster for the entire season?
he hit .241/.32/.389 last year in AAA playing 1B.
i just don’t see it.
even if someone selects him, i’d still expect to see him back with the yankees by the end of the season when that team needs his roster spot.
Perhaps a busy work day for Bobcat?
Of course, I’m getting impatient about the movement of Joe Nathan xP
Correct me if i’m wrong, the difference is everyone thinks highly of the prospects, not just the Yankees pr machine hyping them.
MAYBE WE HAVEN’T HEARD FROM BOBCZT because his office is real busy dealing with trades?
Agree with the Girardi and Farnsworth thing. Girardi went so far as to say that it his personal project this year. It is not like Farnsy could do any worse and he certainly has done better. We know that they had a relationship when Girardi was in Chicago.
Hank needs a muzzle.
Peter is right - the Red Sox have no real interest in Santana.
Oops, Bobcat,sorry for typo
It would be a massive mistake to trade Phil Hughes, and it really doesn’t look like the Twins have the leverage to make it happen. Cash is not on vacation.
As someone mentioned pavano, my thought process is that if they dont release him, then they should send him to A ball when he is ready to pitch and make him play down there, taking long bus rides and staying at crappy motels.
As far as bobcat, what happens if you find out bocat is a girl? will you believe the rumors still or just blow it off as gossip, which is exactly what it is, made up gossip from one person. get your heads on straight people.
can’t believe i’m suggesting this, but any thoughts on signing farns to a 2-year extension on the cheap?
i think he’s worth the gamble considering how far his value has dropped. as an earlier poster commented, you don’t teach a 98mph fastball and 90mph curve. for all of his quirks and blowups, he’s still got the physical tools of a top-flight setup guy.
Many of you may not going to agree with I am about to say, but I believe the Yankees should be willing to give Minn. a package of Hughes/Cabrera/A. Gonzales or Betemit. It makes more sense for the Yanks to keep IPK than Hughes for 2008 for a couple of reasons:
First, If you look at their minor league stats, their are pretty close. In the majors, IPK is more effective with his pitch count than Hughes. If you look at the their stats this year, it took IPK 7 innings to reach a pitch count in the middle 90’s, whereas Hughes with few exceptions had thrown 95 pitches by the 5th.
Second, IPK has a ceiling for 2008 of 175 innings, as compared to Hughes’ 150. With Hughes tendency to throw that many pitches per inning, his help to the Yanks in 2008 will be indeed, very limited.
Also, by including Hughes in the package, the Yankees should not have to fork out any other top pitching prospect for Santana, thus preserving their deep blue chip pitching prospects for themselves after 2008.
Basically, they would be trading our 2nd best pitcher (Hughes) for a great lefty pitcher (Santana), Melky and a minor leaguer. Melky is replaceable by FA Rowand. CF would not suffer a decline, and in 2009 Jackson and Tabata would be ready to join the big leagues alongside of Rowand.
So basically, if this package goes through, it would give the Yanks a rotation of:
Santana
Wang
Mussina
Pettite?
Joba
IPK
The Yanks would still have a slew of top blue chip pitchers left over: Horne, Brackman, Sanchez and Betances. However, if Hughes is offered in the package, Minn. SHOULD NOT get any other significant pitching prospect.
it’s a dangerous game to acquire/keep pitchers based on their wins! santana will pitch at an elite level with an ERA around 3 or so, and a WHIP around 1.00…which is AWESOME for a starter
hughes may or may not do that….who knows….and who knows if he can handle the 220+ IP that santana does every year…
And if wang can win 19 games on the yanks, santana will do 20+ with his eyes closed, if you really can’t let wins out of your head.
agree with keeping farny…as much as he pissed me off last year…he was dominant towards the end of the year…maybe his mechanics need tweaking?
Now I’m thinking of how much money the Yanks can make starting ‘09. All they have to do is put a winning team on the feild and they break the bank.
The Yankees as a brand, are like Nike, Coca Cola… probably better. They put their logo on it, and you pay a premium. Luxury boxes, advertising dollars, sponsorships, their own network that also shows an NBA team moving to Brooklyn in the coming years. Think of how expensive it is just being a fan, lol.
Their investment in AROD is an investment in their brand. Like Babe Ruth, DiMaggio, Mantle… AROD could be making hte Yanks money long after he’s gone. $300m in the long run is chump change.
They won’t be hurting for money. The payroll is barely an issue as long as they’re playing by the rules. Why not maximize their advantage?
Ugh…Mahay and Hawkins. They make Vizcaino look like some big prize.
Maybe it’s wise to make this a blockbuster and try for Joe Nathan, too?
SJ-
Thanks for setting Brian (Sox Fan) straight. It’s one thing if you chat up a Sox fan at a bar, its another thing if you pursue your rivals’ chatrooms.
Part of the reason I frequent this board is the quality of the posts. I have a good feeling the majority of the posters here would not waste their time by talking smack on a Mets/Red Sox/Orioles/etc board.
I’m sure there are many that value your insight like myself. If the quality of this board goes into the gutter (it gets close sometimes), the quality of the info here will be missed.
Cheers
I can’t think of a team that would want an Eric Duncan on their team.
Eric Duncan is still young and could still develop, but is there any chance that somebody picks him in the Rule 5 and keeps him on their ML roster in 2008? I doubt it.
If you believe as Pete does that Santana would win 18 games for NY next year and Hughes would win 15 games then not trading Hughes for Santana makes sense. I’d be surprised if Santana won less than 22 for NY provided he stayed healthy and he always has. Santana is a stud - the best pitcher of his generation. I don’t doubt for a minute that the Redsox are serious in their attempts to acquire Santana, any team that has the prospects to deal and the financial resources to resign him should be serious regardless of what current pitchers they have. Haren is a very good young starting pitcher but he’s not in Santana’s league. No one is. And Haren would cost just as much to acquire given the extra year he’s under contract.
The Haren trade would hurt, but not as bad as a Johan Santana trade in terms of prospects+salary. Right on Pete. Tell this to Cash when you see him at the Winter Meetings.
ET 2012-
I don’t think if Hughes goes they get anything else signifigant, including Melky.
I honestly don’t have a problem with Red Sox fans.
I hate though, one coming on and calling the owner of the Yankees a “buffoon” based on nothing.
Especially, when he comes on and talks about just wanting to be “one of the guys” talking baseball.
Believe me, I know both organizations, and people in them, very well.
Hank Steinbrenner is FAR from a buffoon and Theo Epstein (whom I like a lot) doesn’t have nearly the power folks think he has up there.
One quick example. Theo wanted no part of Eric Gagne. That was strictly a Lucchino-Boras (as was JD Drew) production.
When Theo went to John Henry and voiced his objection, he was told he was outvoted on this one. Not exactly the “autonomy on all players moves” that was said in the post that ticked me off.
Both teams have their guys in the organization who, how shall I say this, are a bit smarmy.
However, Hank Steinbrenner isn’t one of those guys.
Somebody comes on the blog and spouts that nonsense, they better be willing to back it up. If not, they are going to get slammed.
There’s two types of “keep the youngsters” posters. There’s those who want to keep the youngsters at all costs, and those who have known all along that Cashman has building the system, not only to keep some, but to use others as pieces.
Knowing that there’s guys who are going to, in the end, be pieces, I still cringe at the thought of Hughes being one of those pieces. I agree with SJ that 15 wins and 180 innings next year are an optimistic projection, but the guy who we saw the flashes of brilliance we saw last year from doesn’t make such a prediction that outlandish. Optimistic? Yes. Outlandish? No.
Bobcat is right in that we can absorb the blow and, hey, having two rookies as highly rated as Joba and IPK in the rotation, and that just being the start of what we’ve got in the minors, is still beyond impressive. I would still hate to be Yankees facing Hughes a few years from now.
Hopefully, quantity of A- players wins out here.
Teams like Houston, Washington, Florida, KC, even Texas are going nowhere and have nothing to lose by keeping Eric Duncan on the team. Even St. Louis has a spot for him.
It will cost more to acquire Haren than Santana.
Two reasons:
1. Billy Beane. He doesn’t make charitable trades.
2. Haren’s contract is reasonable. Meaning, more teams will be involved and that jacks up the price.
~Adam,
You may have a point there. 3 or 4 of Yankees prospects/players who have risen through and succeeded in the Yankee system would be plenty. If we truly are the only players (IF) and the Yankee picks are low, then Minny may go for the volume of good, good players than 1 or 2 great, great players.
Adam-
That could well be, especially now that Minn. just got Delmon and another outfielder from TB. That may be what BC is attempting to do. If he can get this done, he should.
There were rumors of the Twins trying to acquire Scott Rolen a couple weeks back…The thing was the Twins were trying to get the Cards to absorb some (actually most) of the money from Rolen’s contract…maybe there is a Nathan for Rolen deal in the works?…Even though they have Isringhausen it could be them just blocking a deal from the other teams…Rolen would be a great veteran for this young twins team…otherwise I’d love to see Felix Pie, JJ Hardy or Hunter Pence (
someone tell the buffon…i mean, hank:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/11/29/people.hewitt.ap/index.html
SJ - who’s to say Smith and Billy Beane covet the same players, though? I don’t 100% agree with you on that.
SJ-
Explain more for me.
Yankees made a big announcement today. They’ve signed veteran catcher Jorge Posada. Wow. That came out of nowhere. lol.
I’m back!
And I kind of like the points ET2012 just made…
By trading Hughes, our second best top pitcher (behind Joba, presumably), plus Melky and a second tier minor leaguer (take your pick, Tabata/Gardner/Jackson/Horne/Melacon), it would:
A) Be by far the best offer to Minn,
B) Give the NYY in 2008 a starting ro of Johan, Wang, Joba, Moose, IPK with APettitte possibly in the fold, and with reserves in Karstens and Igawa, if the you-know-what hits the fan again injury-wise like it did last year early on,
C) And if they could feasilby get Rowand, or heck, even Cameron or Andruw for low years and high cash, then the void of Melky is filled by a defensively capable CF allowing Damon to play out his last two years in LF, Matsui his last few in the DH role when Giambi is gone next year, Abreu plays out his last year in RF, and whoever the NYY doesn’t deal for Johan from the trio of Gardner/ Tabata/ and Jackson slowly progresses up over a two and a half year span.
sj:
it seems possible that theo will wield more influence after being right about gagne
Any conference call with Posada?? Would like to hear the audio from that one
haha yeah Mel.
That announcement really blindsided me. But hey, it is official now I guess.
Gayle 3p.m.
My mother-in-law was concerned that, if we traded Melky, Robbie would have no one to hang around with and would get depressed. I told her he could hang out with Johan Santana.
hahahhahahahahahaha
SJ-
Exactly my point. Labeling Hank a baffoon despite his early accomplishments is short-sighted. His updates to the media have helped me sort rumor from fact this offseason. His honesty is a breath of fresh air. And, the timing of his comments I feel are far too after the fact to tip the Yankees hand.
From what I gather, this buffon perception is a common feeling amongst Red Sox fans- based from Bill Simmon’s chat yesterday. I kind of like them thinking that way.
Billy Beane would want Hughes in a Haren trade. No way he trades Haren to the Yankees without Hughes.
He will be able to bring in more teams in a deal, making it impossible for the Yankees to exclude Hughes in any Haren deal.
Cashman may (depending on circumstances) be able to exclude Hughes from the Santana deal. I don’t think so but, its not impossible.
I trade Hughes for Santana if they have to. I don’t trade him for Haren.
Why? Two reasons. One, Santana is the better pitcher and is lefthanded. Not a lot of LH pitchers out there these days and NONE are like Santana.
Last year, he had an “off” year. Comical. In his “off” year, in 33 starts, he gave up 4 or more runs in a game THREE times.
Think about that for a minute. With the Yankees offense, if he has another “off” year like that, he could win 22-24 games.
The second reason is, both Hughes and Haren are RH. I don’t see the gain from the Yankees perspective on that one.
What makes Santana unique is not only that he is great. Its that he is lefthanded.
That’s why he is so valuable.
Bronx,
I don’t know why, but I have a feeling that some other announcements will made during the winter meetings. We still have to fill in 3rd and get a closer. Maybe Cabrera? Nathan? You know the Yankees always wanting to upstage MLB.
So it is pretty much excepted that Cano will not be part of this deal right?…I really want him for my Twins…Cano and Melky and maybe a lower prospect, I’d be happy…I guess I’ll only be dreaming about that…
According to twincities…How can Lester, Crisp and 2 lower prospects be enough to get Santana? They wouldn’t have to include Ellsbury or Buchholz that is a joke. How could Hughes or Kennedy not beat that package.
Shamus-
If the Yanks give-up the pitching prospect Minn. has demanded in Hughes, and also Melky, the Yankees SHOULD NOT give up any other of those blue chip prospects you mentioned. Minn. is looking for SS and 3b help. Offer them Gonzales, or another level B prospect. That should be plenty. They are not going to get anything better from anyone.
I have to say first off I’m not Brian (Sox Fan). I promise you I am a different guy. But I think that he got completely mugged, albeit by some great posters in their own right in this forum. Maybe there’s more of a history there than I know? I’ve got Sox Fan relatives who might call Hank a “buffoon” but that doesn’t give me the right to jump down their throat. I just re-read some of those posts he did last night (like maybe just three or four?) and somehow he managed to dominate the thread by everyone’s reactions. I really think it doesn’t have to be that fierce. Call me a buffoon, but it’s not like his posts had venom dripping off them. Unless Pete has a “No Red Sox fans allowed” policy, let’s take it easy, guys.
LOL. Matt. Fans of different teams view players differently. We really like that Carlos Santana guy you have. As for Cano, he and Joba are off-limits.
Matt,
From my understanding, Cano is not possible because he will be earning a lot of money very soon. This is not Minny’s goal- they want young players that are salary-controlled, allowing them to select which ones they will retain to usher in the new stadium/revenue in 2010.
Sorry but Can is off the lists, and yea, it is very nice to have his bat.
Furthermore, I had an epiphany downstairs in the beer cooler:
AND GUESS WHAT– IT’S NON-JOHAN RELATED (and just fodder for fun!!!) !!!!!
Before Bonds was indicted, the A’s were “reportedly” considering offering him a one year deal to DH, apparently close to $10M… Shocking, when now they are close to blowing up the team.
Could Cashman maybe pawn Giambi and his one year off on Beane for some spare part bullpen piece, maybe a low-to-mid tier position player from the A’s, by offering, say, half of Giambi’s money in the deal?
Am I nuts? Cots says Giambi is owed $21 in 08 (this year), and then its a team option in $09 for $22M, or a $5M buyout. You know that buyout will be exercised, so really Giambi will cost $21M + $5M = $26M for 2008, his last season, assuming the buyout clause is activated.
So could Cashman ship Giambi off to a DH-deprived team in the AL, and add a certain amount of $$$ and maybe the lowest of low picthing prospects (think Wright ‘four-in-a-row’; Chase) and get a decent bullpen part in return? I’m sure the more $$$ he adds to the deal, the better (or possibly more) prospects the team would ship in return?
Say they add $10-$13M to the deal, almost half of his contract for ‘08 including the buyout clause… would you take a gamble on Giambi for one year at $13M as your DH?
Remember, its just for fun… Perhaps a good way to try and ‘pluck a prospect’ the way they did with Red Ass Randy and The Sheff last year… To maybe try and make up somewhat for the talent they are about to give up for Johan (supposedly)… Aside from the A’s, I bet the Angels would be interested too… a lefty with a high on-base thats capable of anywhere from (when healthy) 15-35 HR ?
agreed Mel. You know those Yankees, always gotta be about them!!!
FWIW,
I am a system admin/web developer for a rather large site.. turning registration on is not like pushing a button, unless it is already coded into the blog application. Otherwise it is going to take a little bit of time to get it running.
I too was against it at first, but I think this blog will be self-sustaining now.
Pete, go for it!
Hank worked for the Yankees 20 years ago when George was George.
Some of you may not have been born yet.
Let me give you a crash course of what George was like.
Take the worst stories you have ever heard about him, multiply it by 5, and that’s George.
Hank and Hal saw how NOT to do things.
In my observations at all levels of the organization, he and his brother seem determined to do things the right way.
Does it mean he won’t make mistakes? Of course not. However, its pretty tough to whine about what he has done so far.
Money, the Yankees have plenty of and its only going to increase when they open the new Stadium.
Early reports cast the revenue increase to the Yankees in the new Stadium to be approx 100 million dollars ANNUALLY.
That’s why all of baseball are afraid of the Yankees again.
Not only will they have more money coming in (and a ton coming off the books) after next year, they are also rebuilding the farm system to such a degree that they can afford to get a guy like Santana and STILL have a lot of talent in the system.
When you look back at the history of the Yankees, when they are able to do both, spend and develop, THAT’S when they built dynasties.
SJ44
I totally agree! I don’t think I ever disagree with your comments.
Remember my Arod post about Boras running the Arod show and not Arod, which you agreed with me? I was flamed for it by others.. and well.. not look at the outcome. Heh.
Shamus, great thought, and not one I wouldn’t lose sleep over.
I think Giambi’s situation is not unlike Farnsy. We’ve been burned the last few years by each of them (albeit different reasons). If Giambi produces this year, he becomes the 2nd or 3rd best bat in our lineup. The upside on his potential, and the money we’ve all ready invested, would make it extremely tough to watch him mash for the A’s.
I think Girardi will get Giambis broken ass in shape.
The only thing that I can find wrong with Hank is 1) he smokes 2) he’s rough around the edges (translate: slightly offensive)
But those can both be fixed! Although from what I hear, it may be easier to fix #2, than #1 (ahem Shamus).
And SJ44, right on about pro-Hughes-for-Santana…Nay-Hughes-for-Haren…
Right on. If they could get Haren for Horne and Garnder, then whooped-de-do… But Hughes only rolls for Johan…
Please take a look at my Giambi fodder of the day and tell me what you think… I got another one coming…
Haren is exactly the player the yankees should not go after because that’s a situation where they can’t use their biggest competitive advantage - money.
The Yankees are able to keep talent by picking up more money - for example in the Abreu trade.
Haren has such a reasonable contract just about every team in baseball will be able to bid on him. In addition, he’s signed for three more years - not one. If Beane doesn’t get exactly what he wants this year he’ll just hang on to him - he can do that for two years if he really wanted. Even though Santana is much better there are only a handful of teams that can afford him never mind that he’d want to play with.
The market for Santana is more constrained than for Haren. The santana situation is analogous to ARod’s - best player but not many potential suitors because of cost.
phew I can stop worrying now.
It shouldn’t matter to any of us what players get paid. As fans, we want to watch a team that wins, period. It shouldn’t matter to you if the Yankees pay there players $300 million or $50 million and it isn’y going to alter ticket prices either. You think the Yankees are going to charge less based on their payroll? No, they are going to set ticket prices based on how much profit they can generate.
As a result, replacing any starter on our team with Johan Santan is worth it because it gives us a better chance of watching a team that will win it all.
With that said, there is very little incentive for the Yankees to trade for him now when they can sign him as a free agent next year. We’re the only team that will pay him $25 million/year anad as a result he’ll veto a trade to any other team.
Does anyone else find it frustrating that writers keep mentioning other possible trade partners for the Twins?
Santana has a full-no trade clause. I am not a brain surgeon, but I think that means he will go to the team HE WANTS to be traded to.
Yes it is nice that Seattle, Anaheim and possibly the Dodgers want to be involved. But does Santana want them involved?
I’m sure every other team who could afford his contract would like to be involved in these talks…
It speaks volumes about how Santana feels about our team now that the Yanks have already begun pre-lim discussions with the Twins (unless that espn report was false). If you did not follow—if this is all true—this is where Johan wants to go.
So unless something drastic happens–all of these other teams being involved are just BS.
The ball is in Santana’s court, nobody elses. That is if the Twins want to roll the dice and keep him.
Stop the madness–
Prince
Jennifer,
LOL. Don’t worry about the other holes we have. Rumor has it that the Yankees have some things in the works.
CB-
okay. I see where you guys are coming from. But I do still think we should at least test the waters on Haren. You never know what could come out of it. And I am sure Cash will do just that at the meetings.
I hope Mo re-signs, along with Jose. I can’t stand being this late into the season and not knowing what is going on.
Seriously what is taking so long to announce, they still have to make 2 more roster moves.
Shamus, you could be onto something about Giambi. That would be a big deal to them. Cashman aint doin’ it for just a bullpen guy though, especially if we’re sending cash too. He’ll get value like he got value for Sheff.
Prince,
As Bobcat stated, you read what you are supposed to read.
Maybe these rumors are circulating from Minny’s objective- to make it look like they got the best offer from 6 or 7 teams. If their fans knew they were only dealing with the Yanks and Mets, they would be outraged.
Bronx Stop,
How about Cashman get active in the Haren talks and involve some of the players that Smith may be eyeing? Maybe Minny gets impatient? HaHa, I’ll go back to my room with the padded walls now.
FLEAS, depending on the architecture of the server, u could get ROLLER running with registration in a couple of hours.
Bronx Stop,
I have no problem with the yankees inquiring about haren - in fact they should if for no other reason to plant the seed in Bill Smith’s mind that they have other options. Smith should know that the yankee prospects he’s been offered could go other places.
But ultimately they will get a better player and a better value in Santana because Haren’s contract isn’t that much of a plus to the yankees - not even close to how important Haren’s contract would be to others. Other teams will give up better prospects just because they value Haren’s contract in addition to Haren’s talent.
I’d like to let this be known…Santana is one of the nicest guys around, he’s not fittin’ to screw over the team that brought him up…He’s not going to demand a trade or veto a trade willy nilly…I think he is concerned about winning…Hunter is a very outspoken player, and although he is hilarious he often says things that come out of left field or him just trying to be funny…Just because Hunter said Santana will end up in NYC does not mean he will…Granted you have the best overall chance IMO…I just don’t want this leverage thing to be overstated…As Botcat quoted Cashman as saying “It’s up to the Twins”…We have a lot of power in this…If this trade situation doesn’t work out we could just roll with Tans till the trade deadline…
is it me, or am i the only one who thinks that giambi is a pretty good assest to the team (regardless of pay)Giambi is a on-base machine, when healthy. If giambi is healthy, i see no reason to trade him
On Giambi:
(Trying to not dream/think/talk about the LHP from Minny still!)
Hey, I loved the guy, the partying, the Mantle obsession (he wears 25 because 2+5=7, his idol), his sick, 15 year old dog two years ago that toured the country and flew on the team plane with him on the road away from his penthouse in Vegas for the final two months of the season because the thing was dying, and the ra-ra attitude.
I was sad to see Tino go, but I was psyched when the Yanks pounced on Giambi.
Olney once wrote that during the 2001 playoff series against the A’s, Steinbrenner was in the owner’s box mimicking Giambi’s stance and swing, talking aloud how he would be in ’stripes the next year, his free agent year.
When everything went down with him starting in 03, it became a disaster. regardless of the resurgency a few years ago, last year he was injured a lot as well.
If they can spend some cash and dump him to free-up some of the logjam at first base, then I say go for it. Heck, move Matsui or Damon to 1B, or let Duncan or Phillips battle it out in ST, depending on who we have left in the OF (along with Matsui, Damon, Abreu, poss still Melky???) when the season starts.
But with one year left, if the Yankees added enough $$$ to the deal, they could dump the G-Man. Just some food for thought.
Jennifer,
You didn’t mention Alex. Rumor has it he wants to come back. Freudian slip?
Shamus-
The question is… Would Giamba waive his no trade clause? He might do it to go back to the A’s, otherwise, I don’t think he would; and would the A’s make this kind of deal?
Make the Deal!
I like youth and prospects as much as the next guy but i’d go as far as giving Hughes or Joba, Melky and Horne to have the best pitcher in the majors (assumigly) signed up for the next 5-6 years.
Remember, it took santana 4 years before he became Santana and even if Hughes/Joba does turn out to be as good as Johan (which is very unlikely), it’ll take him a few years to get there.
Also, realize that the Yankees fell behind the Sox when Beckett moved to the Fens and fell further behind when the sox got Matsuzaka (even if they way overpaid). Santana/Wang stack up at least even with Beckett/Dice K.
Play it to give up the least you have to but GET JOHAN!!!
LaTroy Hawkins is a BUM….He stunk in Chicago under the pressure of being the closer and will STINK under the pressure of just having the NYY Uniform on his back….DO NOT GET HAWKINS…..HE WILL BE AS BAD OR WORSE THAN FARNSY !
Since there’s not much going on right now, I think I’ll start a new rumor. It looks like Santana is going to the Yankees for Alberto Gonzalez, and not the ball player, but the former attorney general. Good trade all around.
I miss Bobcat - anyone have his email address?
I dont think we could trade Giambi and cash to Oakland because the amount of cash would not be allowed by the comish… I cant imagine the commissioners office allowing that… i am probably wrong, because i am not that smart….
Shamus The Yankees let the dog go on the plane? Wow interesting tid bit.
Mel I knew I was forgetting another player. I really hope that Alex guy re-signs as well.
“Second, IPK has a ceiling for 2008 of 175 innings, as compared to Hughes’ 150. With Hughes tendency to throw that many pitches per inning, his help to the Yanks in 2008 will be indeed, very limited. ”
i appreciate your well-thought out post, but this logic is severely short-sighted.
you have to be kidding me if you would let a 25 inning difference have ANY weight in your decision.
you are talking about 2 kids who would be with the yankees for the next 6 seasons at least and you would send one over the other b/c of 25 innings in the first year?
i’m sorry, but that is insane.
I bet he’d wave it to go back out to the west coast, he grew up in Covina (I believe), attended CSU Long Beach, came up with the A’s, lives in Vegas in teh offseason.
I bet he’d waive to go to a few diff’t Wcoast teams…
But I am just speculating, speculating, speculating. What do I know. I am just so sick and tired if talking about the Minny SouthPaw…
Anyone else just seem Timmy Kurkjian on SportsCenter just now? He sounds pretty convinced the Yankees are going to land Santana.
Migames,
You’re not alone. Giambi’s in his contract year. If that doesn’t motivate a player, nothing will. Wait, never mind, Andruw was in a contract year. (How may hints did Boras have to drop this year?)
It’ll be interesting to see how this club shapes up with a new sheriff in town. They all loved and respected Torre, but sometimes “Under New Management” brings a new energy.
El Comaduce–
Anything over $1 million has to be APPROVED by the commish…
I believe, but I could be wrong. I remember hearing that on ESPN during the Randy trade (which also took FOREVER)…
No updates, eh fellas? Here in Boston they keep flashing that “Redsox are now the front runners for Santana…” bit on sports radio WEEI. I really have trouble believing that package would land Santana. Not that Materson/Lowrie/Lester are bad prospects, but they aren’t, or at least don’t seem to be high ceiling players. Masterson has the most upside of the bunch, but he’s had his ups and downs in the minors. Lowrie is a minor league SS who’s going to play 2B in the majors, while Lester is ok, and Crisp sucks. Strange deal if it’s legit.
I say they field offers for Matsui and/or Damon…
Why not??.. both are getting old and injury prone… I’d rather give Rowand $13M a year than either of them (latelly).
Matsui (barring one month this season) has been banged up with injuries dating back to his wrist.
And Noodle-Arm has just crashed into too many walls…
Lets Make a Deal !!!
Bronx,
How high was his voice? It’s an indication of accuracy.
Law would take Lester over Kennedy. We really must have blinders on.
Bronx,
What did Kurkjin say?
I think something big is coming, besides Bobcat doesn’t take this long to respond
“I dont think we could trade Giambi and cash to Oakland because the amount of cash would not be allowed by the comish… I cant imagine the commissioners office allowing that… i am probably wrong, because i am not that smart….”
i agree. i don’t think Selig would allow it.
the problem isn’t his 2008 salary. Selig would probably allow the yankees to send about half of his salary. the problem is the $5M buyout he has in 2009.
the yankees would have to send about $16M on what would essentially be a 1 year contract to Oakland.
i think it would get nixed.
His voice was very high lol. Hang on I will rewind the TiVo and type it out.
Baseball Prospectus came out with their ranking of the top prospects in the yankees system:
Five-Star Prospects
1. Joba Chamberlain, RHP
Four-Star Prospects
2. Ian Kennedy, RHP
3. Austin Jackson, OF
4. Jose Tabata, OF
5. Alan Horne, RHP
Three-Star Prospects
6. Dellin Betances, RHP
7. Jesus Montero, C
8. Andrew Brackman, RHP
9. Edwar Ramirez, RHP
10. Kelvin DeLeon, OF
Two-Star Prospects
11. Humberto Sanchez, RHP
Phil Hughes didn’t qualify any longer becuase he’s technically no longer a rookie.
Goldstein had him Phil rated as the Yankee’s top player under 25 - ahead of Cano.
By comparison here is BP’s list for the twins:
Four-Star Prospects
1. Ben Revere, CF
Three-Star Prospects
2. Anthony Swarzak, RHP
3. Jeff Manship, RHP
4. Eduardo Morlan, RHP
5. Tyler Robertson, LHP
6. Nick Blackburn, RHP
7. Brian Duensing, LHP
8. Trevor Plouffe, SS
Two-Star Prospects
9. Chris Parmelee, OF
10. David Bromberg, RHP
11. Joe Benson, OF
No 5 star prospects. Ben Revere was taken in this year’s draft - he’s their only “4 star” prospect. He’s a fast, light hitting middle infielder. The number of Yankees 4 star prospects says a lot.
A deal with Kennedy, Melky and Horne should get this Santana deal done. They should not trade Hughes. Kennedy and Horne are very, very talented. They get downgraded a bit because they aren’t Chamberlain and Hughes. BP has very, very few guys listed as 5 star prospects.
I don’t think the Sox could even match that deal unless they put in Buchholz or Ellsbury.
Here’s BP’s list for the Sox
Five-Star Prospects
1. Clay Buchholz, RHP
2. Jacoby Ellsbury, CF
Four-Star Prospects
3. Justin Masterson, RHP
4. Jed Lowrie, SS
5. Ryan Kalish, OF
Three-Star Prospects
6. Michael Bowden, RHP
7. Lars Anderson, 1B
8. Nick Hagadone, LHP
9. Oscar Tejeda, SS
Two-Star Prospects
10. Josh Reddick, OF
11. Che-Hsuan Lin, OF
Matsui’s not going anywhere. Well, he said he’d move to 1st for the good of the team. But I think that’s as far as he’ll go. I think people forget that Matsui’s been a steady producer for the Yankees.
The reason why some people prefer Lester over Kennedy is because he’s a lefty. His command would scare me though. In the minors people chase pitches, in the pros they really don’t. Lester’s been a 5 inning, 100+ pitch, 1.6 WHIP pitcher.
“migames
November 29th, 2007 at 1:30 pm
is it me, or am i the only one who thinks that giambi is a pretty good assest to the team (regardless of pay)Giambi is a on-base machine, when healthy. If giambi is healthy, i see no reason to trade him”
agreed
Sorry forgot to put the link to the BP list:
http://baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=6957
I Agree Shamus. Its time to let go of some of our old lefties. Hopefully Cashman can get some young “bullpen like” pitching for Giambi, Damon, or Matsui before ST.
Thanks for the clarification Shamus, that makes sense…
For all you youngsters out there, the yankees used to do what shamus is discussing all the time. The would trade big names that where on the way out to the KC Monarchs(i think that was the team) - in return the monarchs would send them the young kids. The Yankees would also pay the big names salary.
The monarchs would get a bigtime name to draw at the gate, and the yankees would get the talent…
ahhhhh, the good old days…
Speaking of young kids, Any chance Betances makes the pen this year?
SJ -
what makes you think Santana does not want to play for the Red Sox? I believe you, I just have not heard that anywhere outside of this blog. Are the sources credible?
Thanks.
No way Matsui’s going anywhere. What and alienate 3/4 of Japan. Matsui makes the Yanks a ton of money.
Is there any word on when the conference call will be. I haven’t had sports radio on at all today. I can’t stand listening to Mets fans cry, and say how the Mets should get Santana for Peltry and Humber.
Boston Dave,
I’m not being facetious, but does Torii Hunter count as a source?
I think itd be hard to move Matsui, being as productive as he has been the past couple years. However, depending on how the chips fall here, I would not be opposed to moving him for the right package, either.
He, of course, has his no-trade, so unless he’s going to Seattle or LA to be closer to home, I really doubt he’d ever consider waiving it.
I’d move Matsui over Damon, because Damon brings his element of speed to the lineup and is our true leadoff hitter… Cano can be moved up in the lineup if need be and replace Matsui’s production from the middle part of the lineup.
Kurkjian on Sportscenter-
“The Mets may be the most motivated team to trade for Johan Santana, but the Yankees appear the most likely team to land the two time Cy Young award winner. First, the Yankees have the most money–it is going to cost around 130 million dollars over 7 years to keep Santana beyond 2008. Second, the Yankees have young players led by pitcher Phil Hughes followed by outfielder Melkey Cabrera and others. And third, the Yankees have Hank Steinbrenner running the show. Like his father- he may not rest until he gets his man.”
Boston Dave-
Fanway Part is like Santana cryptonite. Yankee Stadium is like the yellow sun of the earth.
All those HRs he supposedly gives up…. just long fly balls to left.
I think it might be Bobcat’s day off.
mel, I would say he does…
if he says Johan told him that. Wishful thinking but if Johan would confirm that, it might make the Yankees job of acquiring him a bit easier.
Adam,
Johan pitches very well at Fenway. I dont want to hear what his career #s are at Fenway. He had ONE bad start at Fenway, and it happened to be the third start of his career.
Where is Miller? Damn you’d think they have a job. We need info!!!
Just saw a commercial for “The Hurricane” batting trainer starring Derek Jeter. He says “If it works for me, it will work for you.”
Now I know why he hit into so many double play balls in Cleveland!!! He forgot to pack “The Hurricane”!!!!
Adam,
I read that The Steinbrenner family is building a hotel cmplex near the new Stadium. If true, this revenue is not part of the Yankees’ revenue share participation in mlb.
I think that Matsui is what we call “samurai”, not old school, ancient school. He takes great pride in wearing pinstripes and you see it in his preparation and effort. Although some of you may think his effort falls short, he’s still a valuable bat tot he Yankees. It would be “shame” for him if he accepted a trade away from the Yankees.
Ya, Bobcat has disappeared. What a C^CK tease!
Keith Law seems to be conveying some insight that suggests that Santana is a one year rental and that he will not sign an extension within the 72 hour window.
I wonder if this has any substance.
I also wonder if Santana has basically whittled down the potential suitors for the Twins saying he will or will not go here or there.
It was actually his first start in 2000
http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/psplit.cgi?n1=santajo02
scroll near the bottom you will see splits in parks, than open it you see the games he started there.
Adam-
If what you say is true, then getting Santana to help the Yanks in the playoffs, all of sudden does not seem that attractive. Boston is the perennial Yanks rival in the postseason. Half of the games would be played in Boston…Hmmm…
Do you have his stats for Fenway Park?
Ed FL,
Just another reason why we, as fans, need to stop worrying about the Yankees money and how much they spend on players.
Pete saying… I’d rather have Hughes 15 wins for 400k than Johan’s 18 wins for 20M is ridiculous logic. If the Yankees have the money (under the current system) then why not spend it on improving the team? Would Pete feel better if the Steinbrenners saved their money for retirement and bought some new homes instead?
Roster Rooster
Betances is a ways out. From where he’s coming from I’d expect to see him in Sept. 2010 at the very earliest.
People are underestimating the money aspect with Santana. While not an object to the yanks, it is probably an object to all the other teams mentioned…. The mets are cheap - they wont pay 20+ a year for a starter. IF Boston gets him - what do they do with Becks? He should make as much as Santana…
ET2,
dont listen to Adam, who has no idea what he is talking about when it comes to Santana at Fenway.
maybe its just me, but i never noticed bobcat on the blog until later in the day, anyway…
bobcat-good while it lasted.
Completely off topic, but does anyone know of a website where I could get the Cowboys/Packers game tonight? I know this summer people were giving others URLs to watch Yankee games that were out of their market, just wondering if there was anything similar I could use to defeat the combined evil of the NFL Network and Time Warner Cable…
Boston Dave,
Good point.
From everything I have heard, it is not that Santana does not want to play in Boston, just that he would prefer to play in New York. I sincerely doubt Santana would veto a trade to Boston if Boston gave him the money he wants. Athletes have preferences certainly, but I don’t think that he is so enamoured with being a Yankee that he would do everything he could to get himself there.
ET2012, I believe Santana has given up just 2ER in the last 5 seasons at Fenway Park.
You can spin stats any way you want to make them fit your argument. I personally dont care how poorly he pitched in his 3rd career start at Fenway (3IP, 7ER). I care about how he pitches there right now.
El Comaduce,
Too true. Boston doesn’t have the need for pitching to go out and dump their farm AND 150 million on Johan Santana.
If the Yankees were smart, they’d try and tie a ballpark village with some bars or a restaurant or something into the old grounds where the original Yankee Stadium will be torn down. I’ve been up to Fenway, and the day of the game, it’s a ton of fun to take part in the experience of Fenway, as well as taking in the game.
of course, who am i to tell the Yankees how to make money… but as a fan, i would love to have some places around the ballpark in the neighborhood to meet up and enjoy before the game.
Well, I think the Yankees would be more willing to trade without an extension in place.