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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Posada: Go get Santana

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Nov 29, 2007 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Jorge Posada did a conference call (audio coming shortly) and discussed his new contract. He said about what you would expect. He wanted to stay a Yankee, he could DH down the road, he likes Joe Girardi, he was sorry to see Joe Torre go.

Where it got interesting was when he said the Yankees should trade for Johan Santana because they need a No. 1. Posada also said he has been calling Andy Pettitte once a week.

He said Pettitte is leaning to retirement but he hopes that will change given the direction of the team.

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265 Responses to “Posada: Go get Santana”

  1. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") November 29th, 2007 at 3:23 pm

    that does it, lets go get him !!!! :)

  2. mel November 29th, 2007 at 3:23 pm

    That sounds like a directive.

  3. hmmm November 29th, 2007 at 3:24 pm

    who cares? if Posada had his way, Torre would still be the manager and bernie would be in CF.

    love posada, great catcher, but he’s not a GM.

  4. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 29th, 2007 at 3:24 pm

    Hip hip Jorge.

    At least I imagine he doesn’t do those pull ups…

  5. Shamus November 29th, 2007 at 3:25 pm

    Wow— Thats got to make the youth on the team feel good if a veteran is saying (basically) do what it takes and go get Johan…

    Holy Smack!

  6. Kill-Schill(ing) November 29th, 2007 at 3:26 pm

    Please someone tell me I have no cause to fear this:

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3133598

    How the heck could the Sux acquire Santana without including either Ellsbury or Buchholz.

  7. murphydog November 29th, 2007 at 3:28 pm

    As for Pettitte, the Yanks have to assume he won’t be back as they go forward in this negotiation with Minny. If Andy does return, it’s a bonus.

  8. YANKEE BIAS November 29th, 2007 at 3:29 pm

    I agree 100% with Posada. The Yankees desperately need a #1 that can counter Josh Beckett. They cannot allow themselves to lose Santana to Boston. It would be devastating in my opinion.

  9. coney12 November 29th, 2007 at 3:30 pm

    Olney just updated on the ESPN website that it looks like Santana will likely end up in Boston for Lester, Bowden, Crisp and another player. This utterly ridiculous. I thought for years Cashman has been posturing to acquire Santana and now he will likely go the freakin Bosox for that garbage. Are you telling me Hughes, Cabrera, and say Alan Horne can’t beat that package?

  10. coney12 November 29th, 2007 at 3:30 pm

    If Santana goes to Boston, Cashman MUST be fired immediately.

  11. SJ44 November 29th, 2007 at 3:31 pm

    Who says they are? Olney isn’t saying anything that hasn’t been written in other stories.

    Its not a deal until EVERYTHING is done. The players are only part of it.

    If Santana doesn’t agree to a deal, or like the destination, all this stuff is just noise and nothing more.

  12. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") November 29th, 2007 at 3:31 pm

    I doubt this happens

  13. Jeff November 29th, 2007 at 3:32 pm

    Get Santana, Hank! Can’t let the Red Sox get him.

    Get Santana now!!!

  14. Shamus November 29th, 2007 at 3:32 pm

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3133598

    That thud-sound y’all heard was me jumping….

    %^*%*%% #@%$#@*$% ^*(^&*)^$% ^%$%&^&^& *(&^(*^&^$# Red Sox !!!!!

  15. SJ44 November 29th, 2007 at 3:32 pm

    Wow, calling for a firing over something that hasn’t happened?

    Relax, and take it easy. Let’s see how things play out before you go into fire mode.

  16. migames November 29th, 2007 at 3:33 pm

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html

    heyman just put the yankees odds better than the red soxs. People relax. nothing is done yet…

  17. mel November 29th, 2007 at 3:33 pm

    Either way, there’s nothing we can do about it. Win/win either way. Of course more wins if we get him, but we’re the Yankees, guys.

  18. ItalianGreco November 29th, 2007 at 3:33 pm

    Santana will be a Yankee. This is all part of the game people.

  19. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge November 29th, 2007 at 3:34 pm

    Gotta love Jorge! :)

    That is a crap deal the soxs are proposing. Can’t see it happening.

  20. mel November 29th, 2007 at 3:34 pm

    I hope that Cashman has locked Hank in the basement.

  21. coney12 November 29th, 2007 at 3:34 pm

    Trust me SJ44,

    They would not complete the player part of the deal unless they know both the Sox and Santana are ready to complete the extension. They are not going to go through all of these trade negotiations for nothing. The Sox have been beating the Yanks in acquiring top pitching for years (Beckett, Matsuzaka, Schilling, Pedro and now possibly Santana)….all under Cashman’s watch. It has got to stop sometime.

  22. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 29th, 2007 at 3:34 pm

    Guys. Seriously now.

    Have you all learned nothing of ESPN?!

  23. Hughes... November 29th, 2007 at 3:34 pm

    Jeez. Jorge should stick to catching and playing well enough to justify his contract.

    And to the neurotic people freaking out. I doubt the Twins gave up Johan without Ellsbury or Buchholz in return.

    Just relax. The Sox waited 96 years for a WS. Yankees haven’t won one in 7. Patience.

  24. bskul November 29th, 2007 at 3:35 pm

    it makes no sense on the twins part. weren’t they firm on getting ellsbury?? wtf…this is bull****

  25. Ed - Brooklyn NY November 29th, 2007 at 3:35 pm

    I read somewhere that Santanta don’t want to go to Boston because of the “green monster”.

  26. hmmm November 29th, 2007 at 3:35 pm

    “If Santana goes to Boston, Cashman MUST be fired immediately.”

    that’s dumb.

    you have no idea what he offered. it sounds like he has offered several combinations of VERY serious talent.

    maybe the Twins simply prefer Boston’s players? maybe we are underrating Lester’s trade value, overrating our prospects’ trade value?

    or are you saying Cashman should offer Hughes and Cano just to keep him out of Boston? what about Joba?

    your post implies the Yankees should simply give WHATEVER it takes to keep him out of Boston, and that’s just ridiculous.

  27. kasey November 29th, 2007 at 3:35 pm

    the sox could easily just be driving up the market for santana to hurt the yankees a bit.

    if not, though, would it really surprise anyone if johan ended up in boston? i mean, is it so outlandish that little stein and cashman could get out-maneuvered by lucchino and epstein?

  28. Jaewon November 29th, 2007 at 3:35 pm

    coney12: That deal is NOT that close to happening. I’d say it’s 50/50 right now. ESPN puts so much junk up, like when they said Eli Manning would miss a month with a shoulder injury. I would think twice about that article until it’s more official.

  29. pat November 29th, 2007 at 3:35 pm

    Everyone breathe. The frameworks of a deal are different than getting a deal done.

  30. gayle November 29th, 2007 at 3:36 pm

    That story doesnt bother me in the least. Lets think about who put out that story might it be the Red Sox in order to get the Yanks to go higher in their offer. Might it be the Twins so they can have BOTH the Sox and Yanks battle it out and have EACh team up the ante.

    Also if you read the whole thing it is very clear that the players trade is only PART of the equation and that the harder thing m ight be Santana and his no trade clause as well as the contract.

    The whole Santana thing makes me feel like wake me up when its done but all the rumour mill can mkake you crazy and until I see him at a podium then that is all it is.

  31. El Comaduce November 29th, 2007 at 3:36 pm

    Buster Olney is smoking crack, that is a leak meant to drive up the price the yankees have to pay…

  32. JRVJ November 29th, 2007 at 3:36 pm

    I actually like the angle that Michel is pushing, since he’s basically saying “We can agree with the Twins, but if we don’t get an agreement with Santana, no dice”.

    I don’t know how these things work, so with the appropriate provisos, I’d offer a bushel to the Twins, then when I meet with Santana, I feel him out.

    If Santana says he wants 6/150MM, I’d tell him that the Yanks would gladly give him this if he’s a FA or the trading cost for him were lower, but not with the package the Twins are demanding, so the Yanks can only offer him (say) 5/90MM.

    It’d be lovely to see Santana go back to the Twins and say “Lower your demands or I’m not approving any trades”.

  33. Jaewon November 29th, 2007 at 3:38 pm

    *wouldn’t

  34. Shamus November 29th, 2007 at 3:39 pm

    ESPN in 2006: WSH set to trade Alfonso Soriano imminently to the CHW Sox for prospects…

    Didn’t happen…

    Olney also had Carlos Beltran earmarked to be a Yankee two weeks into his free agency… Right city, wrong team…

    I’ll see if the NESN ticker has anything…

  35. berra8 November 29th, 2007 at 3:39 pm

    I can’t believe the Yankees can’t out-do that bid. That is just ridiculous. They can’t let the Red Sox get Santana for that package.

  36. Chosen1s08 November 29th, 2007 at 3:39 pm

    I would love to see the deal work out were we get to keep melk and hughes. Something like give the Twins IPK, Jackson, Horne, and possibly another 2 more good prospects from the lower level. Now that i could deal with but why do we need to get ride of melk and hughes that makes no sense to me.

  37. Mike R. November 29th, 2007 at 3:39 pm

    Kill-Schill(ing)
    November 29th, 2007 at 3:26 pm

    Please someone tell me I have no cause to fear this:

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3133598

    How the heck could the Sux acquire Santana without including either Ellsbury or Buchholz.

    “We hear what they want us to hear.”

  38. Ed - Brooklyn NY November 29th, 2007 at 3:40 pm

    It’d be lovely to see Santana go back to the Twins and say “Lower your demands or I’m not approving any trades”.

    Can he actually do that? I been thinking if Johan would go up to the GM and say “I would only accept a trade to the Yanks even if they are offering a dirt cheap package. Like either offering Karstens for me, Rasner & Karstens, or some dumb package.”

  39. jay destro November 29th, 2007 at 3:40 pm

    Olney also broke the Matsuzaka story. He isn’t always wrong.

  40. gayle November 29th, 2007 at 3:41 pm

    Also now that Jorge is on the 40 man roster we have 40 on the roster thus no openings. So based on what i read earlier does that mean we do not participate in the draft?? Again this is not a big deal as I have not heard of anyone worth taking the spot for but…..

  41. murphydog November 29th, 2007 at 3:41 pm

    Time to come in off the ledges and put the sharp objects down.

    As I read Olney, it just says that Boston is talking to the Twins and have put out a framework for a deal. If they didn’t do that much, that’s GM malpractice. Also, the boxed quote on the right margin of Olney’s piece had Gene Michael sounding cautious, warning that although he’d love to have Santana, the price in talent and dollars has to be carefully scrutinized.

    IMO, it’s just Minnesota and NYY talking to each other through Olney, doing some saber rattling.

  42. small schools November 29th, 2007 at 3:41 pm

    Why do you guys want Santana so badly? When have the Yankees ever brought in a huge free agent or trade acquisition with success? The expectations on him will be so high that if he doesn’t win 20 games and the world series mvp he’ll be a failure. Do you really want to pay 70 million dollars next year to three guys? And is one hall of fame pitcher worth more than two pretty good pitchers and a great center fielder? Don’t forget that the Yankees have been night and day better with Cabrera over the last two years than when Torre benched him; he has a lot of intangibles and you guys don’t even realize it. Would it be frightening to face a Red Sox rotation that leads with Beckett and Santana for the next 5-10 years? Certainly, but we haven’t played them in the playoffs for three years, and that shouldn’t be our biggest concern. Furthermore, our long-term rotation of Wang, Hughes, and Kennedy (and maybe Chamberlain if they keep him out of the closer’s spot) is pretty damn good. This team is clearly going in the right direction long-term, there’s no need to blow that up now for a pitcher who might already be on the downside of his career (check the stats).

  43. jay destro November 29th, 2007 at 3:42 pm

    Bobcat update needed

  44. migames November 29th, 2007 at 3:42 pm

    Pedro Martinez was traded to the Red Soxs on November 1997 and played for them for 7 season. During that time the yankees won 3 ws while the redsoxs won 1. Advantage Cashman

    Curt Schilling never wanted to play for the yankees. Advantage: Nobody

    Dice K hasn’t proven anything, Advantage: Cashman

    Beckett became Beckett this year,but check out what the Marlins got in return, either way Advantage: Red Soxs

    I think Cashman is alright.

  45. Mr. GoodKat November 29th, 2007 at 3:42 pm

    Relax, the Yankees can top that Red Sox offer if they so choose. They aren’t going to let the Red Sox get him for that package.

  46. berra8 November 29th, 2007 at 3:43 pm

    This isn’t telling us anything other than what Heyman told us yesterday — they are clearly negotiating, but have not agreed on anything.

    But frankly, I haven’t heard anything from the Yankees’ side of things. What have they offered? Olney says they are still discussing a trade, but has no idea what is being offered. I just don’t get it. It sounds like the Twins aren’t interested in what the Yankees have to offer.

  47. bskul November 29th, 2007 at 3:43 pm

    bob ryan of the boston globe basically said on mike and the maddog that ellsbury is the deal breaker on the sox’s behalf. sox don’t want to give him up, and the twins want him.

  48. Mike R. November 29th, 2007 at 3:43 pm

    This is from yesterday’s Callis chat.

    Matt,MPLS : Garza to the Rays for an Young?

    Jim Callis: (2:48 PM ET ) Would be shocked if Delmon gets traded, despite the rumors.

    Less than one hour later the deal was finalized.

  49. CB November 29th, 2007 at 3:44 pm

    Did anyone actually read what olney actually wrote?

    He said the sox and twins were discussing a deal with those players:

    “The Red Sox and Twins are discussing the framework of a Johan Santana deal that would have Boston sending four players to Minnesota in return for the two-time Cy Young Award winner, including center fielder Coco Crisp, pitcher Jon Lester and minor-league shortstop Jed Lowrie, the trio that would to anchor the deal.”

    Then he said that there would still be the issue of the extension to work out:

    “Even if the Red Sox and Twins agree on the framework for a deal — and as of early Thursday afternoon, that hadn’t happened — Boston would still face an enormous hurdle to complete the contract.”

    What’s the big deal about that? Did anyone think the twins wouldn’t talk to the Sox?

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=31335

  50. Butch Wynegar November 29th, 2007 at 3:44 pm

    can i has a bobcat update pwease?

  51. murphydog November 29th, 2007 at 3:45 pm

    “They would not complete the player part of the deal unless they know both the Sox and Santana are ready to complete the extension. They are not going to go through all of these trade negotiations for nothing.”

    It’s not “for nothing,” but it’s not the same as doing whatever it takes to make the deal happen. Boston has an obligation to explore any reasonable possibility to improve the team. Consider this just Boston’s “due diligence.”

  52. migames November 29th, 2007 at 3:45 pm

    When have the Yankees ever brought in a huge free agent or trade acquisition with success?
    Arod
    Oniell
    Tino
    Knoblauch
    Cone
    Mussina
    Sheffield
    Giambi
    Clemens
    David Justice

  53. sunny615 November 29th, 2007 at 3:45 pm

    From SI’s John Heyman:

    By Jon Heyman, SI.com

    If the Red Sox relent and include young outfield phenom Jacoby Ellsbury in trade talks for Johan Santana, Boston would probably lead the high-stakes sweepstakes for the two-time Cy Young Award winner. But to this point, the Red Sox have declined to include Ellsbury in a package that centers around young left-handed pitcher Jon Lester.

    If they remain firm in their stance to keep Ellsbury, the New York Yankees could be in the best position to land Santana.

    Boston remains hopeful that the Minnesota Twins will accept center fielder Coco Crisp as part of a multi-player package. But for now, “the Twins are stuck on Ellsbury,” a league source said.

    If Ellsbury remains out of the package, and Red Sox general manager Theo Epstein is known to be enamored of him, the Yankees could be the favorite to win the services of Santana, the 28-year-old lefty who went 15-13 with a 3.33 ERA in 2007. Minnesota is fielding offers for the pitcher who is 93-44 for his career.

  54. Mike in SF November 29th, 2007 at 3:45 pm

    Thanks CB, voice of reason.

  55. mel November 29th, 2007 at 3:46 pm

    Considering that Santana has a full NT clause, I’m sure he’d have some input.

  56. Shamus November 29th, 2007 at 3:47 pm

    Small Schools has apparently never heard of:

    Roger Clemens
    David Wells
    Jimmy Key
    Orlando Hernandez
    Tino Martinez
    Scott Brosius
    Chuck Knoblauch
    David Justice

    shall I go on… The 90′s dynasty wasn’t all farm hands…

  57. Mike R. November 29th, 2007 at 3:47 pm

    Butch – This was the most recent Bobcat update:

    Bobcat
    November 29th, 2007 at 2:15 pm

    Greetings. Quick update:

    1) You’re seeing a lot of public posturing on Santana from all of the teams that we’ve discussed recently. Sox are trying to jack the price, Twins are trying to bring the Dodgers in and ratchet up the Yankees’ position. All very expected. You read what you are supposed to read.

    2) Nathan is getting some play, again, as expected, from the teams one would expect them to. Nathan’s leaving may alter the package that the Twins/Yankees agree on, but the Yankees’ suits don’t really care which combination the Twins take. The Yankees feel they have balanced the various offers.

    3) Several press releases are out there that indicate that the Sox will not trade more than one of their prime chips. Accurate. The Sox are not seen as players; only shills. They would have to include Ellsbury.

    4) Mets are not in on Santana. Reyes is not going anywhere.

    5) A lot of action on Haren. As expected, and reported, Beane is asking for the moon. All it takes is one owner to agree. Mets, as reported, have offered the farm. Unfortunately, the farm is not what it once was.

    5) GMs are gearing up for next week and there may be some surprises, in that the FA market is non-existant this year.

    6) Some of you may be looking for links or verification of what I am telling you. You know my position: I can confirm or deny what has been published, but I cannot disclose what has not been made public. You can believe my postings or not; that’s up to you. When I start being wrong, move on.

    I’ll try to check in later.

  58. kasey November 29th, 2007 at 3:47 pm

    “Where it got interesting was when he said the Yankees should trade for Johan Santana because they need a No. 1.”

    any of those “wang is a true ace” folks care to chime in here? i found that pretty fun. the guy catches wang and even he doesn’t think he’s an ace.

  59. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") November 29th, 2007 at 3:47 pm

    Olney was the one that had Gagne in NY from what I remembered then 180′d it to Boston, it’s speculation right now

  60. hmmm November 29th, 2007 at 3:47 pm

    “i mean, is it so outlandish that little stein and cashman could get out-maneuvered by lucchino and epstein?”

    i don’t see it as being out-maneuvered.

    what are these “maneuvers”?

    both teams are talking with the Twins. both teams are making very STRONG offers.

    if the Twins pick the Sox’s offer, i am not sure there is anything the Yankees can do about it if they have decided the most they are willing to pay.

    there HAS to be a limit as to what the Yankees are willing to pay. has to.

    Keith Law just said today that he likes Lester ahead of Kennedy. if that is the consensus amoung GM’s, then already the Yankees’ package has to start with Hughes. then they have to add Melky to balance Crisp. Bowden is another very good pitching prospect. So the Yankees would have to add someone like Horne.

    now we are at similar packages where the Twins could go either way.

    to make the Yankees the clear winners, b/c maybe the Twins simply don’t want to see Johan Santana go to the New York Yankees, the Yankees have to make an offer CLEARLY better than the Boston offer.

    so Horne has to turn into Kennedy or they have to add Jackson to the deal.

    Hughes/Melky/Kennedy + $150M for Santana.

    is this a no-brainer? no, i don’t think it is.

  61. Mike in SF November 29th, 2007 at 3:49 pm

    Had we traded Shane Spencer following his September phenom, the fans would have been outraged. But we would have pulled back parts that had a better chance helping the team in the future.

  62. ray November 29th, 2007 at 3:49 pm

    Fox Radio Sports just said that the Sox have the inside trace right now on the Santana trade. Doesn’t mean it is going to happen but I think one is in denial if they think the Sox are only attempting to drive up the price for the Yankees and are not seriously interested in getting Santana.

  63. migames November 29th, 2007 at 3:49 pm

    shall I go on…
    wetteland
    giardi
    strawberry
    Cecil Fielder
    Bobby Abreu
    Andy Pettitte (2nd coming)

  64. CB November 29th, 2007 at 3:50 pm

    The Twins may just decide they want a left handed pitcher to replace santana and take the Sox package with Lester. That’s not getting “out maneuvered.”

    That said none of these rumors take santana’s wishes into account.

    Who cares if they’re talking about a deal if santana won’t approve it.

    The twins are trying to get the yankees to panic.

    Fire cashman? That makes sense.

  65. G. Love November 29th, 2007 at 3:50 pm

    I want to amend my earlier statement.

    If Johan goes to Boston, I will cry, curl up in the fetal position, periodically suck my thumb AND I will bite my pillow.

    I also want to say one more thing. I think it’s horrible that the mainstream press get together and help teams raise the offer from the Yankees.

    I rarely see this go on in other deals. When the Yanks are involved, all of a sudden the press get together and do what they can to put the screws to them.

    Why are the Red Sox getting the white glove treatment? They’re as big a collection of smug arrogant elitists as I’ve seen in baseball.

  66. DVB Forever November 29th, 2007 at 3:51 pm

    Santana agrees to trade to Yankees. Details will follow tonight on ESPN.

  67. Shamus November 29th, 2007 at 3:51 pm

    NESN ticker has nothing….

    And hmmmm jsut hit another one out of the park with his last post… Good call…

  68. sunny615 November 29th, 2007 at 3:51 pm

    well the twins certainly got yankee fans to panic.

  69. Jaewon November 29th, 2007 at 3:52 pm

    migames: don’t forget Reggie Jackson. or Hideki Matsui. Or. . . umm i don’t know someone else.

  70. murphydog November 29th, 2007 at 3:52 pm

    I think this just means that Minnesota wants to test whether the Yankees will improve their offer or stand pat and wait it out. Remember, a wise visitor to this blog recently said, “Impatience is expensive.”

    I think they are in the home stretch and Johan winds up in the Bronx.

  71. SJ44 November 29th, 2007 at 3:52 pm

    Two days ago the ESPN headline was, “Yankees and Twins in talks for Santana”.

    Its now, “Red Sox and Twins in talks for Santana”.

    Where is the news here? We KNOW both teams are in talks with Santana.

    The Red Sox have the framework of a deal in place. So do the Yankees.

    In other words, NOTHING IS NEW.

    So, before you call for mass firings and go on tirades, just relax and wait until something actually happens.

    Wouldn’t that be a novel concept?

  72. Shamus November 29th, 2007 at 3:52 pm

    I love you G. Love…

  73. coney12 November 29th, 2007 at 3:53 pm

    Misgames:

    Of course the Sox are serious about getting Santana. This would be a tremendous morale blow to the Yankees. They get him for garbage, keep him from their biggest rivals and virtually ensure the Yankees are on the outside looking in for the next 4-5 years. Lucky Luccino and Theo the Boy Wonder are trying to cement their legacy here.

  74. searay November 29th, 2007 at 3:53 pm

    No to Santana. If the Yankees include Hughes, they will be sorry. These are the bright young arms that are replacing the under achieving hired hands of the past several years. Keep the kids, build it with our own.

  75. CB November 29th, 2007 at 3:53 pm

    This is what Stick Michael said about santana today on ESPN:

    “I would love to have him on our team next year, but is the contract going to be too much?” Michael said. “Is it too many years? Are the players you are going to put in there, are they too much? We don’t know exactly what it is going to take.”

    Does anyone think that Stick is hedging on Santana? That he’s “worried” about the contract.

    This is all posturing right now by everyone – Twins, yanks and sox.

    How do the sox have the “inside track?”

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3133598

  76. Mike R. November 29th, 2007 at 3:53 pm

    This entire media burst stinks of Minnesota desperation for leverage. They know they have none right now and if they could find a way to get some they could land a larger bounty.

  77. Jaewon November 29th, 2007 at 3:53 pm

    DVB Forever: do you have a real story, or babble talk. . .?

  78. TurnTwo November 29th, 2007 at 3:54 pm

    the Saux will never pay Santana for his extention… everyone can calm down.

  79. ~Adam. November 29th, 2007 at 3:54 pm

    This Boston stuff is BS.

    Cashman won’t blink, who do they think they’re dealing with? If anything, Cashman should LOWER his offer to match Boston’s.

  80. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") November 29th, 2007 at 3:54 pm

    it’s Boston forcing the Yanks to trade more of thier farm, and the Twins trying to up the Yanks offer, absolutely nothing of what Boston offered makes any bit of sense

  81. Mr. GoodKat November 29th, 2007 at 3:55 pm

    If the Yankees put Hughes in a trade, the Red Sox are done, it’s that simple. Right now, I think Cashman is trying to refrain from doing that which is the smart move.

    Still, even without Hughes, I think the Yankees can put a package that is comparable to the best offer the Sox put on the table. I think that’s what the battle is about now.

  82. Shamus November 29th, 2007 at 3:55 pm

    QUICK !!!! Someone put up the help signal for Bobcat !

    BC BC BC BC BC BC BC BC BC BC BC BC BC

    –. –. –. –. –. –.

    (I’m tring morse code and everything over here for some verification from the man. I need a valium if this is true !)

  83. Mike R. November 29th, 2007 at 3:56 pm

    Adam – Boston Stuff…BS…unintentional pun?

  84. Phil November 29th, 2007 at 3:56 pm

    They want the Yanks to believe that the Sox have the inside track, but I doubt the Yanks do believe that.

  85. CB November 29th, 2007 at 3:57 pm

    It’s just hilarious how so many posters here think they are smarter than baseball professional and much smarter than cashman or torre or whoever.

    then with one leaked new story they are ready to jump off a ledge!

    it’s negotiations. Yesterdays story was that the sox were out if they don’t give up ellesbury. Everyone knows the sox don’t want to do that.

    So today’s story is – what a surprise – sox and twins talking without ellsbury in the deal.

    Is that a coincidence? No today’s story is probably leaked to counter yesterday’s story.

  86. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") November 29th, 2007 at 3:57 pm

    They want the Yanks to believe that the Sox have the inside track, but I doubt the Yanks do believe that.

    I hope the Yanks don’t budge

  87. DVB Forever November 29th, 2007 at 3:58 pm

    Jaewon
    November 29th, 2007 at 3:53 pm
    DVB Forever: do you have a real story, or babble talk. . .?
    .
    *inside info, similar to Bobcat’s*
    .
    Joy in Yankee Land !

  88. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") November 29th, 2007 at 3:59 pm

    that’s not Bobcat

  89. BobK55 November 29th, 2007 at 3:59 pm

    The Red Sox are not going to pay Santana $25 million a year (or even $20 mil) for 6 years

  90. CB November 29th, 2007 at 3:59 pm

    Shockingly a fake bobcat is here.

    “Ok guys…” couldn’t you have done a better job than that?

  91. Bobcat November 29th, 2007 at 4:00 pm

    Not me.

    Bobcat
    November 29th, 2007 at 3:58 pm
    OK guys, Boston is now the top dog in the Santana sweepstakes.

    Smith is higher on Crisp than most teams and has always had a soft spot for Lester.

    Yankees need to give up both Hughes AND Kennedy, in addition to Cabrera, and Jackson/Tabata, or else Santana is going to the Sox.

  92. Mike R. November 29th, 2007 at 4:00 pm

    Fake Bobcat alert!!!!!

  93. rodg12 November 29th, 2007 at 4:01 pm

    What’s the latest on your end Bobcat?

  94. Mike R. November 29th, 2007 at 4:01 pm

    Bobcat – I think most regulars know you well enough to spot the fake most of the time.

  95. Phil - 27 in '08 November 29th, 2007 at 4:02 pm

    Pete: Yet another registration request to prevent duplicate post names.

  96. kasey November 29th, 2007 at 4:02 pm

    if you’re the red sox, how tempting is a santana-beckett 1-2 punch? i mean, don’t you have to at least TRY to make that deal, especially when it pretty much derails your chief rival’s offseason plans?

    bottom line, if minnesota likes boston’s offer better, game over. lester’s already PROVEN he can pitch at the big league level, kennedy hasn’t. crisp and cabrera are close to wash, but the money might hang boston up there. and then you get into minor league talent and, honestly, it’s in the hands of the twins organization and who they prefer. if they like boston’s guys, that’s that.

    the possibility exists that boston is just driving up the market but last offseason should have proven that they’re more than willing to spend money in order to compete (scratch that, in order to WIN). my guess is they’re serious about santana and, frankly, if they get him, that’s a HUGE blow to the yankees. cashman’s had his eye on santana for a long time. if it turns out that the yankees front office – like 95% of yankees fans – overvalued their own farm system, that’s going to sting a bit.

  97. ~Adam. November 29th, 2007 at 4:02 pm

    Everyone is trying to stick Boston’s success against the Yankees.

    Boras did it, the Yanks humiliated him.

    Now the Twins are trying it. Do they think Cashman was born yesterday?

    Cashman should do nothing or lower the offer. See how good this new GM Smith’s poker face really is. Go ahead Twins, explain to your fan base why Johan Santana turned into Coco Crisp. lol.

  98. Mr. GoodKat November 29th, 2007 at 4:04 pm

    Pete, can you please highlight Bobcat’s name in bold or something to that effect? This is getting awful tedious of having people act like Bobcat.

  99. Boston Dave November 29th, 2007 at 4:04 pm

    SJ – Agreed.

    It is just nerve racking thinking of Boston getting Johan… especially for that proposed package (no Buchholz or Ellsbury). I know it’s all buzz right now but I feel for the Yanks fans who, like myself, fear Santana potentially heading to Boston. Fingers crossed…

  100. Bob November 29th, 2007 at 4:05 pm

    I haven’t been around much lately, so maybe someone already brought this up, but why would the Red Sox be givng up the players and that type of contract for a lefty pitcher?

    Me thinks they are just trying to drive up the price.

    And I persoanlly would rather not see the Yanks give up the farm plus the contract it would take to get Santana. Yes, he’s great, but one of the big 3(Joba, Hughes, Kennedy) is likely to be a great starter too.

  101. ~Adam. November 29th, 2007 at 4:05 pm

    lol, fake Bobcat quotes are actually Theo Epstein.

  102. JMZ November 29th, 2007 at 4:05 pm

    Hopefully Pete won’t start deleting the real Bobcat posts again …

  103. mel November 29th, 2007 at 4:05 pm

    kasey,

    You really like playing the role of devil’s advocate, huh? BTW how was your tour?

  104. CB November 29th, 2007 at 4:05 pm

    Why would the twins ever want coco crisp. They are such an astute organization and don’t make mistakes like that. Even if boston kicked in money the twins need talented young players they can control for a long time and build around.

  105. JC in NH November 29th, 2007 at 4:07 pm

    LOL Yankees fans !

    Just saw on NESN, Tom Caron said a Johan deal is agreed to and the Sox have been granted a 72-hour window, with the weekend, to work out an extension before Johan signs off on his NTC, allowing the trade to be complete.

    The final deal will be Buchholz, Coco, Lowrie and Masterson for Johan and one A-ball pitcher.

  106. Mike S. November 29th, 2007 at 4:07 pm

    In order for Wang not to be a 1, there have to be better than Wang. Wang should be a 3. Problem is, no one is better as of now. Posada knows that. Hence his comment.

    Wang is an ace, but by default. I do give him credit for back-to-back 19 win seasons however. No Yank has done that since John in 1979-80.

    But he should be a 2 or 3.

    Wait for the Santana story to unfold. Remember Boston was thisclose to getting A-Rod in 2004. Didn’t happen.

    Stifle.

  107. Boston Dave November 29th, 2007 at 4:08 pm

    I dont think anyone should be saying that Boston has no intention of signing Santana or is just driving up the price. Why wouldn’t they? If they can get him for less than Ellsbury and Buchholz… they’d be nuts to rule him out completely. To get the best pitcher in baseball, you find the money. They ‘found’ a $51M lump sum check to give up for Daisuke. They have the money and they know where having Santana would catapult them.

  108. Mr. GoodKat November 29th, 2007 at 4:08 pm

    About 80% of the people here are probably looking for the latest news from Bobcat. The real Bobcat’s name ought to be highlighted in bold. Please make it happen Peter!

  109. Jax November 29th, 2007 at 4:08 pm

    The Yankees don’t have to give up Hughes,Kennedy,Melky,Jackson and Tabata to get Santana or else…… That’s absurd.

  110. Jake November 29th, 2007 at 4:08 pm

    just relax everyone. it really isn’t the end of the world if santana goes to boston.

    it is going to hurt boston, don’t be naive about that. boston will never be NY in terms of money.

    let whatever happen, happen. have a little trust in the people upstairs in NY. if they are getting screwed, they won’t do the deal and shouldn’t do the deal. you don’t make a trade for the single purpose of preventing your rival from doing it. that is bad business.

  111. BobK55 November 29th, 2007 at 4:08 pm

    If I’m the Twins GM then it would have to start with Ellsbury. Coco Crisp, give me a break!

  112. Mr. GoodKat November 29th, 2007 at 4:09 pm

    Santana’s numbers in Fenway aren’t special (lefties struggle there), are the Sox really willing to offer that much money for a pitcher who’s not a fit there? They’d be better off getting Danny Haren.

  113. G. Love November 29th, 2007 at 4:09 pm

    I’m gonna go stand on the the ledge for awhile.

    Please send someone to talk me off of it in the event we get Johan.

    Regards,

    G. Love

  114. The Bronx Stop November 29th, 2007 at 4:09 pm

    Does anyone else think that Johnny Damon’s naked pull-up routine started in Boston???

  115. Boston Dave November 29th, 2007 at 4:10 pm

    JC – NESN is showing crap boxing. Nothing to do with Johan and the scrolling news bar at the bottom says nothing about it (at least not recently)

  116. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") November 29th, 2007 at 4:10 pm

    JC in NH, we woild have heard about this and currently on ESPN radio they are knocking this deal as BS and a driving up the price ploy

    a cancer literally cancer survivor (not even the Ace)
    Crisp not Ellsbury
    Bowden and Masterson (LOL not even the Twins would do this)

  117. Joba the Great November 29th, 2007 at 4:10 pm

    What did Buster really say, when you get right down to it? They’re negotiating. Well, you’d expect the Sox and Twins to negotiate. If the Twins are going to play poker, they’re going to talk to everyone and make everyone’s hand look like gold to the other parties involved. The true players see it for what it is, and carry on their business irregardless of the propaganda that gets floated.

  118. The Bronx Stop November 29th, 2007 at 4:10 pm

    I am wondering why Bobcat doesn’t start his own blog. Peter would probably link to him–and he could still post here!!!

  119. Jake November 29th, 2007 at 4:11 pm

    G. Love,

    Step away from the ledge my friend.

    Everything is not lost.

  120. Brendon November 29th, 2007 at 4:12 pm

    If Santanna goes to the Sox, pitchers I would like are Haren or Bedard. I think Haren will be hard to get, however i don’t feel comfortable trading Hughes, Kennedy, Melky or any of our top farm players to another AL East Team. That being said, there is Dontrelle Willis, always a possibility, there also is two players who come to mind and i heard were avaliable however not as much as Johan, these players are Felix Hernandez and Brandon Webb, i highly doubt we would get those guys, but I think that Wang is a Solid #1 starter if Andy doesn’t come back. My dream rotation for 2008, Pettite, Wang, Hughes, Kennedy, Fogg (FA Sign :-).)

  121. Boston Dave November 29th, 2007 at 4:13 pm

    Jake – I respectfully disagree

    a) getting Johan would not hurt Boston. quite the opposite.

    b) I think that you do need to sometimes pay more to prevent your ‘enemy’ from getting better. If he were going to the Dodgers, its not as bad for the Yanks from a PR persepctive as well as on the field.

  122. Mr. GoodKat November 29th, 2007 at 4:13 pm

    The Real Bobcat?

  123. DadinIowa November 29th, 2007 at 4:14 pm

    1) We know Bobcat is monitoring this blog

    2) He hasn’t said there has been any change in developments from last night, nor in the chances that Santana is 75% likely to be a Yankee

    3) Remember that impatience is costly

    4) Bobcat would let us know if there were significant developments

    So…….. relax :)

  124. CB November 29th, 2007 at 4:14 pm

    Michael K just said that Torii Hunter was on Stephen Smith today and Smith asked him about that rumored deal of

    Lester/ Crisp/ Lowrie/ and Bowden

    Hunter’s response – that sounds a little light.

    Kay then said he’s never heard of Bowden! Never even heard of him? And your a “baseball analyst?”

  125. The Bronx Stop November 29th, 2007 at 4:14 pm

    If we give up Hughes and Melkey I quit.

  126. dan November 29th, 2007 at 4:15 pm

    “I also want to say one more thing. I think it’s horrible that the mainstream press get together and help teams raise the offer from the Yankees.”

    It’s a conspiracy!

    “Boras did it, the Yanks humiliated him.”

    Yes, humiliated with a 300 million dollar deal. They stuck it to them!

  127. Shamus November 29th, 2007 at 4:15 pm

    Dear sweet Jesus no….

    How can (and I mean no disrespect) a new GM to a team trade his best player for a guy named after a cereal and a (again, no offense)cancer survivor who had a tough go in the minors this year en route to pitching in the clinching game of the WS.

    If its Coco, Lester, and two prospects, your telling me thats better than Phil Hughes, Alan Horne, Melky and Tabata ?

    I just don’t get it. Lester’s story is sweet, and a tear jerker, but Hughes WAS and IS the MOST talked about pitching propsect in baseball…

    Is it just me with this theory? Are the Sox (with the Twins) trying to drive the price up on us? And who the Hell is JC from NH ? I’m watching NESN now and I don’t see anything but silly-arse boxing…

  128. SJ44 November 29th, 2007 at 4:15 pm

    Fake alert people.

    Between the fake bobcats and the Red Sox fans coming on here with bogus “Breaking News”, now is the time to take a break from blogging.

    Too many fakes to learn anything new today.

  129. Boston Dave November 29th, 2007 at 4:15 pm

    nice post ET90210… that looks sweet

  130. Boston Dave November 29th, 2007 at 4:16 pm

    SJ44 – I hear ya… as a Yankee fan in Boston though… since I cant separate fact from fiction right now… my stomach is churning… I need to take a break as well.

  131. CaptainsCorner November 29th, 2007 at 4:17 pm

    I would highly doubt that anything gets done before the winter meeings. Smith will walk around the meetings like a king in the castle and wait to get BLOWN away with a deal. He will probably sit in his hotel room and let everyone talk about Smith just meet with Cash, he is having dinner with Theo, ooohh here comes Coletti and Minaya to drive up the price. The Twins are not morons or at least I hope not to take those prospects they mind as well keep Santana instead of letting him go for that deal.

  132. RedSoxRooter November 29th, 2007 at 4:17 pm

    No fake Bobcats here! Just wanted to point out that I supposed the very trade that ESPN is reporting in my post last night (Lester/Crisp/Bowden/Lowrie). This is the trade that will probably happen, a trade which is better for the Twins than Hughes/Melky. Face it, ya’ll can’t give up the pieces to get this done.

  133. Shamus November 29th, 2007 at 4:17 pm

    Hey JC in NH– who just won the fight on NESN, you lying idiot ?

  134. BobK55 November 29th, 2007 at 4:17 pm

    Yankee fan living in NH. There is absolutely NOTHING on NESN about a trade for Santana to the Red Sox.

  135. ~Adam. November 29th, 2007 at 4:17 pm

    DadinIowa,

    Remember too who runs this site. Peter Abraham, and actual sports journalist with a good source network. He’d be on top of any huge story like the Sox getting a 72 hour window to negotiate.

  136. Fernando Alejandro November 29th, 2007 at 4:18 pm

    registration anyone?

  137. Vader November 29th, 2007 at 4:18 pm

    Everyone needs to listen to Bobcat, the Boston leaks are only out there to get the Yankees to deal Hughes. IMO Cash has to hold out, does anyone think Boston will give Santana $150 for 6 years? Also Santana can veto all trades.

  138. jake November 29th, 2007 at 4:18 pm

    i dont want josh fogg on my team….even as a number 5

  139. Mike R. November 29th, 2007 at 4:18 pm

    That last Bobcat post wasn’t him. I can practically guarantee it. Saying hello to NYYFans.com?? Deade giveaway

  140. kasey November 29th, 2007 at 4:18 pm

    mel,

    if you’re lucchino and epstein, don’t you have to pursue santana, especially if you can apparently get him for spare parts? i mean, santana and beckett for the next five years?

    the tour was fun. some great shows, some not-so-great. about what you’d expect. the LA show, oddly enough, turned out to be pretty good. i’ve had some pretty poor LA experiences, so that was a nice change of pace.

  141. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") November 29th, 2007 at 4:19 pm

    Bobcat
    November 29th, 2007 at 4:12 pm
    1. Just want to say hi to all my friends at the nyyfans forums.

    2. Smith definitely is holding out for Ellsbury (Young will be a corner OF for the Twins, not a CF), but Boston is reluctant to dealing him.

    3. Yankees are now prepared to give up Hughes, mainly because of Boston driving the price up.

    just stop we know your not the real Bobcat, just stop !

  142. Mr. GoodKat November 29th, 2007 at 4:19 pm

    Are you serious? The Yankees probably haven’t offered Hughes, and this is just a poor attempt by the Red Sox to get him into the melting pot for Johan Santana. That trade offer by the Red Sox probably couldn’t get Ervin Santana, yet alone Johan, haha.

  143. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 29th, 2007 at 4:19 pm

    We hear what they want us to hear.

    We should all be philosophy students.

  144. Joba the Great November 29th, 2007 at 4:19 pm

    As much as I hate to admit it, if Ellsbury was a Yankee, I’d absolutely not trade him either. That guy is like Reyes or Ichiro in the way he can change a game with pure, blinding speed. That guy is a weapon, and when it’s all said in done, the Red Sox will pay someone 75% of Crisp’s salary to take him and let Ellsbury run wild in center. But given the huge outlay it would take to sign Santana, I don’t think it’s likely in this case.

  145. Shamus November 29th, 2007 at 4:19 pm

    I’ll pay $100 a finger from the Red Sox Rooter!

  146. Jax November 29th, 2007 at 4:19 pm

    Michael Kay is a idiot. He’s never heard of Bowden because he doesn’t follow the minor leagues. He just knows about some prospects based on 2nd hand information. Most baseball people who know prospects have heard of M.Bowden.

  147. migames November 29th, 2007 at 4:20 pm

    i think bobcat is bigger than bobcat. Its taken on life of its own.

  148. Giuseppe Franco November 29th, 2007 at 4:20 pm

    Let Santana go to the Red Sox and let Theo give up great young players to get him.

    I’d rather keep Hughes and the rest of the kids anyways.

    They Yanks will start hitting Santana just like they did with Pedro, Beckett, and Schilling over the years.

  149. Kill-Schill(ing) November 29th, 2007 at 4:20 pm

    Klapisch will be on with Kay at 5:00pm. He has impressive sources and might be worth listening to.

    Hey, who is this authentic Bobcat to whom you guys keep referring?

    What’s his source and/or authority? Is he Greenberg’s assistant or something?

  150. wood is good November 29th, 2007 at 4:20 pm

    Please, PLEASE, Peter, get us registered….

  151. The Bronx Stop November 29th, 2007 at 4:20 pm

    Redsux Rooter-
    We don’t have the pieces to get it done?

    Well we have the pieces to get it done, but aren’t dumb enough to trade them all to do it.

  152. Blargh November 29th, 2007 at 4:21 pm

    Another supporter for registration here

  153. Boston Dave November 29th, 2007 at 4:21 pm

    Vader, you may be right about their intentions but yes, Boston WILL give 6/150M (or something close) for Santana. I just hope Santana wants to pitch for the Yanks as much as I’m hearing he does and would veto.

  154. berra8 November 29th, 2007 at 4:22 pm

    I have to be honest, I’d really like to hear something from the Yankees’ end of things right now. We haven’t heard anything from them in a long while.

  155. Kill-Schill(ing) November 29th, 2007 at 4:22 pm

    Who is this masked man, Bobcat? Out Out, with his identity!

  156. Bobcat November 29th, 2007 at 4:22 pm

    Quick Santana update:

    1) As expected, this is the “public posturing” portion of the negoiations. Feed the media, try to force the trade partners to up the ante. You read what you’re supposed to read.

    2) None of the published “scoops” are original. They are team-fed. Take them for what they are worth. Nothing.

    3) The teams are negotiating. The Twins are trying to get the Yankees to add more. The Red Sox are NOT giving up their big boys.

    4) The Yankees and Twins have agreed on various combinations. The Twins are now (as expected) trying to extract more because of the “other trade partners”.

    5) The Yankees have much more to gain by adding Santana and much more to lose by not getting Santana (duh). They can add pieces if they want, but it won’t be a big boy.

    6) The Twins are hoping/assuming the Yankees think Santana wants to play somewhere other than NY. The Yankees can’t officially confirm same with Santana, as that would be tampering. Officially.

    7) This is proceeding at its expected pace. Impatience is expensive.

    8) This may be less than what you were looking for, but I’m not in a position to “announce”. Never have been. I can confirm or deny published reports. You have that information above.

  157. El Comaduce November 29th, 2007 at 4:22 pm

    Again – this is all posturing… If the twins do get ellsbury they will have a nice little outfield…

  158. Mike R. November 29th, 2007 at 4:22 pm

    Kill_Schilling – Bobcat works a a financial firm that handles MLB paperwork. The trade discussions, offers etc. go through his workplace. He is kind enough to keep us up to date with the information he is allowed to release.

  159. swo November 29th, 2007 at 4:22 pm

    CB – I think Kay is just making a joke, saying that Bowden is generally an unknown prospect, and that including him would be foolish on the Twins’ part.

  160. Boston Dave November 29th, 2007 at 4:23 pm

    Joba, It’s a little early to say Ellsbury is the next Reyes. He played great but its a very small sample. Until recently, he did not project to be this good. I dont doubt he will be, but its not a certainty. Santana is as close to a certainty as it gets.

  161. Kill-Schill(ing) November 29th, 2007 at 4:24 pm

    May I ask who you are or what you do? I’d love to believe you, Bobcat. Please reassure I have reason to do so.

  162. frits November 29th, 2007 at 4:24 pm

    that’s bobcat.

    supporter for registration here.

  163. Mike R. November 29th, 2007 at 4:24 pm

    And THAT ladies and gentlemen is a REAL Bobcat post.

  164. Bobcat November 29th, 2007 at 4:24 pm

    Not me.

    Bobcat
    November 29th, 2007 at 4:12 pm
    1. Just want to say hi to all my friends at the nyyfans forums.

    2. Smith definitely is holding out for Ellsbury (Young will be a corner OF for the Twins, not a CF), but Boston is reluctant to dealing him.

    3. Yankees are now prepared to give up Hughes, mainly because of Boston driving the price up.

  165. El Comaduce November 29th, 2007 at 4:24 pm

    Seeing Gene Micheal comment on this makes me feel better. If he is working with cash, i have uber faith that we wont make a bad deal

  166. SteveNYG November 29th, 2007 at 4:24 pm

    Happy about Posada’s return, but I feel like he threw the Wanger under the bus during his conference. I agree with him that Wang is not a true # 1/ace, but he has won 38 games for us the last 2 years. He also got some Cy Young votes which tells me others consider him a great pitcher as well. For him, as his battery mate, to say something like that publicly was uncalled for. Stick to being a great hitting catcher Posada, we already have a GM.

  167. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 29th, 2007 at 4:24 pm

    ok, THAT was the real Bobcat…

  168. NewBlog November 29th, 2007 at 4:25 pm

    The real bobcat maybe should just start his own blog – throw it up on blogspot.

    that would avoid this nonsense. it’s easy to do and would probably be easier for him – easier than having to keep saying “not me.”

  169. coney12 November 29th, 2007 at 4:25 pm

    Is it possible the Twins/Red Sox front office are throwing the Crisp, Lester, Bowden, etc. package out there to get the Yanks to include Hughes. If the Yanks had already offered Hughes, I have to imagine that would beat out the Sox deal. If the Twins/Sox were close to a deal, you would hear Crisp, BUCHOLTZ, etc. or Lester, ELLSBURY, etc. on the way to Minnesota. This may be to see if the Yanks up the ante.

  170. Joba the Great November 29th, 2007 at 4:25 pm

    Dave, for what the Red Sox will ask of him, he doesn’t need to be Reyes. He’s nearly as fast, though, and he’s Gold Glove caliber in the field. I’d take him on my team.

  171. Vader November 29th, 2007 at 4:25 pm

    I know Boston has a ton of fans, merchandise and other revenue streams, but if you know anything about the Sawx, they run thier team like the Pats and with payroll structure, see Damon, Schilling, Lowell and even Dice-K. $25-mil per year for Santana is something I can’t see them doing.

  172. Boston Dave November 29th, 2007 at 4:25 pm

    Bobcat vs. SJ44

    Pay-per-view debate??

  173. El Comaduce November 29th, 2007 at 4:25 pm

    The “NOT ME” Posts rock..

  174. bskul November 29th, 2007 at 4:25 pm

    but are the twins considering making that ridiculous trade proposed by that clown buster olney???

  175. Mike R. November 29th, 2007 at 4:26 pm

    Kill-Schill(ing) – Bobcat had information about the Garza – Young deal before it was published. Told us the players involved before it became official. He is legit.

  176. migames November 29th, 2007 at 4:26 pm

    bobcat versus miller
    sj versus hmmmmm

    now that the pay pre view debate i want to see

  177. Kill-Schill(ing) November 29th, 2007 at 4:26 pm

    Why is he divulging it to us peons, then? Not that I’m ungrateful. I’m just skeptical. With all the rumors circulating how do we distinguish truth from hoax and self-promotion from credible authority?

    Is it possible through this guy, we’re privy to info that Olney and Heyman aren’t? I’m a little dubious.

  178. Bobcat November 29th, 2007 at 4:27 pm

    This isn’t really Bobcat, just more proof that this site needs registration.

  179. Boston Dave November 29th, 2007 at 4:27 pm

    Joba –

    I didnt say he wasnt good. You inferred that it would be foolish to trade him for Santana. I disagree. They should try to get Santana for less, but Santana is ‘worth’ more than Ellsbury.

  180. swo November 29th, 2007 at 4:27 pm

    Another not on Kay/Bowden: If it were Mike and the Mad Dog, they’d be sitting there wondering who Alan Horne and Austin Jackson are.

  181. Mike S. November 29th, 2007 at 4:27 pm

    That deal would be crap for the Twins. No way can they not get either Buchholz or Ellsbury. Lester and Crisp? Forget it.

  182. Larry P. November 29th, 2007 at 4:27 pm

    Someone said earlier that the deal isn’t done until Santana agrees to an extension. That’s true.

    He may wanna play for the Yanks and NOT the Sox.

  183. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") November 29th, 2007 at 4:28 pm

    that was Bobcat :)

  184. Kill-Schill(ing) November 29th, 2007 at 4:28 pm

    I’m still dubious Mike R., but I’ll take solace in what he says. He certainly sounds like voice of reason amid the fog of panic.

  185. migames November 29th, 2007 at 4:28 pm

    kill…you need to go back a couple of days and read all of bobcats posts. I think it starts with the hall of fame post….

  186. mel November 29th, 2007 at 4:28 pm

    kasey,

    I was just teasing. Just like Miller said we have to take everything written here with a grain of salt.

    Yes, it’s your duty as a senior officer in the front office of the Red Sox to explore the possibility of getting a premier pitcher.

    I’m done already with the drama. I want to hold on to Hughes because I was brainwashed that he’s the future for the Yankees. If the deal happens or doesn’t, with Hughes or without, it is what it is.

    Maybe it’s because Bobcat’s been feeding us some info that we like, but I feel calm about the whole situation.

    Good to hear about the success of the tour. Everytime I hear Nickleback’s “Rock Star” I picture you and 15 cars…

    p.s. I hope you’re not too big a Huskies fan. My Warriors are on a mission!

  187. SJ44 November 29th, 2007 at 4:28 pm

    At this point folks, really, exhale.

    Until there is a deal, all this stuff is just noise.

    My $.02. He’s not going to Boston.

    I don’t care what Buster Olney, NYYFans.com, Theo Espstein, six clowns from NH, Fox Sports Radio, or any other “source” has to say.

    He’s not going to Boston.

    I also think, as I have always believed, the Yankees can’t make this deal without including Hughes in it.

    Its Johan Santana. Not some hack arm.

    If they want him, Hughes has to be in the deal. If he is, they will get him.

    That’s it for me today. I’m gettin’ out before all the fakes take over the blog the rest of the day. Good day everyone.

  188. NewBlog November 29th, 2007 at 4:28 pm

    El Comaduce,

    I agree with the Stick Michael comment. He’s such a good evaluator of talent and has a close relationship with cash.

    They know what’s at stake.

    I don’t want them to trade hughes at all. But ultimately if they do I’m confident they will have done so only because they needed to.

    At the same time if they don’t land santana I’m sure there will be a logical reason for that as well.

    They know much more about this than I ever will.

  189. Boston Dave November 29th, 2007 at 4:29 pm

    Vader –

    Boston somehow came up with a $51M lump sum check for Daisuke. Boston (and John Henry) have lots of money. They just choose to spend it wisely. Santana is probably a wise investment. Would you rather have 1 Santana for $25M or 1 Gil Meche and 1 Carlos Silva. Slightly above average relievers are getting $6M a year now… $25M is becoming the new $15M. I dont see money as the roadblock for Boston getting Santana. It’s whether they want to give up the youngsters.

  190. Mr. GoodKat November 29th, 2007 at 4:30 pm

    Am I the only one who’s not that impressed with Jon Lester? He is a lefty, but everytime I watch him pitch, he loads the bases and is a single away from losing the game.

  191. Blargh November 29th, 2007 at 4:30 pm

    Out of the kindness of his heart and to get us to think like GMs? xP

    It also helps that what Bobcat can divulge to us, makes a lot of sense when one thinks about it. Particularly, a lot more sense than the average trade proposal drivel that floats around the internet ;)

  192. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") November 29th, 2007 at 4:30 pm

    Bobcat
    November 29th, 2007 at 4:27 pm
    This isn’t really Bobcat, just more proof that this site needs registration.

    Not him. :D

  193. Real World November 29th, 2007 at 4:30 pm

    THE SUSPENSE IS KILLING ME! argh!!!!!

    Anyhow, if we have to give up Hughes, I don’t do the deal. Hughes is just far too valuable to include. I’d be more than willing to toss in some icing, but just not Hughes. Go to 5 players, but no Hughes. I make the sox give up Ellsbury if that’s what the Twins make them do.

  194. Vader November 29th, 2007 at 4:30 pm

    If this deal is really going to get done, ESPN radio will break it. Check back later, I need to get some work done.

  195. Jax November 29th, 2007 at 4:31 pm

    Umm who put Reyes and Ellsbury in the same category? Please not even close.

  196. Mike R. November 29th, 2007 at 4:31 pm

    Kill-Schill(ing)- I think we all went through the skeptical stage until we started seeing things unravel. With time you will believe.

  197. Drive 4-5 November 29th, 2007 at 4:32 pm

    Vader,

    The Sox spent $103mil on DicK, $70mil on Drew and $36mil on Lugo. I think they have shown themselves to be very capable of overpaying.

  198. Joba the Great November 29th, 2007 at 4:32 pm

    True, Dave, but the question is this: what is the Red Sox’ bigger need, Santana at six years and $150 million amid Beckett, Dice-K and a slew of good, young pitchers, or six years of a cost-controlled Ellsbury and take the saved money to replace or re-sign Manny? Ellsbury, and his economic value, is a need. Santana, talented as he is, is a want for them.

  199. migames November 29th, 2007 at 4:33 pm

    how many times have we hit the refresh button today?

  200. Andrea November 29th, 2007 at 4:33 pm

    I love the real Bobcat.

  201. Vader November 29th, 2007 at 4:34 pm

    51 million was a lump sum payment not a part of salary. Apples and oranges.

    Also I think Hughes will be a stud, maybe not next year but within the next two/three. You don’t give up on 6′ 5″ power pitchers with swing and miss stuff. The worst thing that happened to Hughes was getting hurt, because if he didn’t he would be untouchable.

  202. RedSoxRooter November 29th, 2007 at 4:35 pm

    lol of course, pieces = pieces you might actually part with. ya’ll could trade Hughes/Melky/Tabata, nobody questions that. But who the heck is going to replace Cabrera in your scenario??? Seriously what are your CF options. In short, you need those guys worse than the Sox need, um, anyone who they’d actually part with.

    BTW Crisp had the best zone rating of any CF last year.

  203. CB November 29th, 2007 at 4:36 pm

    Baseball Prospectus came out with their list of best players under the age of 25 on the yankees:

    1. Phil Hughes (MLB)
    2. Joba Chamberlain

    3. Ian Kennedy
    4. Austin Jackson
    5. Jose Tabata
    6. Alan Horne
    7. Dellin Betances
    8. Jesus Montero
    9. Melky Cabrera (MLB)
    10. Andrew Brackman

    They had Hughes ahead of Chamberlain. Now Baseball Prospectus isn’t a scouting service but they talk to a lot of scouts and do a very analytic job of looking at prospects. They aren’t just clowns.

    People are forgetting how good Hughes is.

    We can trade Hughes. But we’ll be trading him at the absolute lowest level his value has been at since he was drafted because of these injuries.

  204. saucy November 29th, 2007 at 4:36 pm

    “how many times have we hit the refresh button today?”

    top row of my keyboard looks like:

    [F1][F2][F3][F4]_[__][F6][F7][F7]_[F9]…..

  205. marc November 29th, 2007 at 4:37 pm

    mm@dog interrupt show w/ lester crisp bs

  206. Andrea November 29th, 2007 at 4:37 pm

    Sure, Crisp had great zone rating, but he couldn’t hit the damn ball.

  207. Mike R. November 29th, 2007 at 4:38 pm

    “how many times have we hit the refresh button today?”

    My F5 button looks like a prenant 1. :S

  208. Mike S. November 29th, 2007 at 4:39 pm

    I think people are missing out on an important piece of Pete’s post above. That of Posada calling Pettitte once a week and saying that Pettitte is leaning towards retirement.

    Even if the Yanks GET Santana, I want the 1-2-3 to be Santana-Wang-Pettitte. Let the kids break in as the 4 and 5.

    If Andy retires and you get Santana, you are still talking of a youngster at # 3. That is a problem.

    Andy coming back is absolutely crucial. You really don’t want youngster 3, youngster 4 and youngster or Mussina (39) at 5.

    No matter if you DO or DO NOT get Santana, Pettitte’s return is crucial.

  209. Mr. GoodKat November 29th, 2007 at 4:39 pm

    Heard of Aaron Rowand or Andruw Jones? Last time I checked, they were both FA’s.

  210. marc November 29th, 2007 at 4:40 pm

    mike postulating anout andy retiring then”they have to get santana

  211. Real World November 29th, 2007 at 4:40 pm

    Hey, I got this in the NYYFans forum. Seems like it’s the real Bobcat:

    Quote:
    Bobcat
    November 29th, 2007 at 4:22 pm
    Quick Santana update:

    1) As expected, this is the “public posturing” portion of the negoiations. Feed the media, try to force the trade partners to up the ante. You read what you’re supposed to read.

    2) None of the published “scoops” are original. They are team-fed. Take them for what they are worth. Nothing.

    3) The teams are negotiating. The Twins are trying to get the Yankees to add more. The Red Sox are NOT giving up their big boys.

    4) The Yankees and Twins have agreed on various combinations. The Twins are now (as expected) trying to extract more because of the “other trade partners”.

    5) The Yankees have much more to gain by adding Santana and much more to lose by not getting Santana (duh). They can add pieces if they want, but it won’t be a big boy.

    6) The Twins are hoping/assuming the Yankees think Santana wants to play somewhere other than NY. The Yankees can’t officially confirm same with Santana, as that would be tampering. Officially.

    7) This is proceeding at its expected pace. Impatience is expensive.

    This may be less than what you were looking for, but I’m not in a position to “announce”. Never have been. I can confirm or deny published reports. You have that information above.

  212. Ed FL November 29th, 2007 at 4:41 pm

    Boston Dave November 29th, 2007 at 4:25 pm

    Bobcat vs. SJ44

    Pay-per-view debate??

    GreeBeret7 as referee.

  213. marc November 29th, 2007 at 4:41 pm

    just so much pap

  214. marc November 29th, 2007 at 4:42 pm

    does anyone believe andy is really looking to retire or is that just roger in his ear again?

  215. george ruth November 29th, 2007 at 4:45 pm

    “come with me andy, we will retire together”

  216. tim c. November 29th, 2007 at 4:46 pm

    Bobcat

    Will Santana be dealt before the winter meetinings?

  217. Mike S. November 29th, 2007 at 4:46 pm

    Marc, I think the possibility of Andy retiring is very real.

  218. CB November 29th, 2007 at 4:49 pm

    Regardless of santana – they need andy.

    If they trade Hughes for Santana and andy doesn’t come back then there is a weakness in the rotation that’s not insignificant.

    Santana/ Wang/Joba/Kennedy/ Mussina.

    I don’t have any faith in mussina pitching a full season. Joba will have an innings cap. Kennedy may be ready but could regress.

    I was hoping andy would come back – that way mussina could be used to throw 120-140 innings to take the innings pressure off joba/ hughes.

    I do think Andy may retire. just speculation.

  219. SJ44 November 29th, 2007 at 4:49 pm

    No debate between bobcat and myself. We are on the same team here.

    He’s a good dude and I have no beef with him in the slightest.

  220. Boston Dave November 29th, 2007 at 4:51 pm

    Vader – yes the $51M was lump sum. whats your point?

    a $51M lump sum payment is MORE than $51 over 6 years. it is not apples and oranges. the sox have plenty of money. if they want santana, the money wont be the main reason they dont go after him.

  221. Boston Dave November 29th, 2007 at 4:51 pm

    SJ44 – i was just kidding…

  222. Drive 4-5 November 29th, 2007 at 4:51 pm

    hahahaha Coco Crisp is the only outfielder in baseball that would lose a throwing contest to Johnny Damon. He had BETTER be able to run balls down. At least he can then say he has one above average quality to his game. Unfortunately, his career 371 strikeouts vs 195 walks doesnt look too good next to his .329 OBP.

    Who would in their right mind want to pay $11mil for 2 years of Coco Crisp when you can have Melky for less than $1mil for 2 years?

  223. marc November 29th, 2007 at 4:52 pm

    Mike S.,

    He is so tied to Clemens. Why would he retire now? Believe me he will not leave this money on the table. Clemens has been pulling this crap for 5 years now.

  224. Ghost of Dan Pasqua November 29th, 2007 at 4:53 pm

    “Vader – yes the $51M was lump sum. whats your point?

    a $51M lump sum payment is MORE than $51 over 6 years. it is not apples and oranges. the sox have plenty of money. if they want santana, the money wont be the main reason they dont go after him.”

    The Sox made up that money selling “Red Sox Nation Cards” to a group of lemmings.

  225. Boston Dave November 29th, 2007 at 4:53 pm

    as far as Pettite, the yanks definitely could use him back. i think in addition to posada, joba, hughes, and kennedy should be calling him. it seemed like he got very close with the young guys last season and he could help mentor them.

  226. Boston Dave November 29th, 2007 at 4:54 pm

    Coco Crisp is a decent hitter and a great fielder. His salary is reasonable. I would consider him pretty close to Melky but he shouldnt be a key piece in a deal for the best pitcher in baseball.

  227. Artie A November 29th, 2007 at 4:54 pm

    Message to Cash. Stay strong, stay the course, put up the people for Sanatana that you want to give up and if the Twins don’t bite, they don’t bite. Don’t worry about the Red Sox. Haren is out there too.
    Focus on getting us innings and a stronger bullpen. I’ve had enough of spending good money after bad. Pavano, Kevin Brown and Wright. Enough is enough. Let’s not mortgage our future. Please.

  228. Catherine November 29th, 2007 at 4:55 pm

    WFAN said that Pettitte isnt coming back

    Take it if you want to believe it

  229. marc November 29th, 2007 at 4:55 pm

    the latest from maddog..yanks must give kennedy and hughes for santana…I say no way , let him go to boston…santana wants the yanks and has no trade …cash will call that bluff.

  230. Boston Dave November 29th, 2007 at 4:57 pm

    Top 50 MLB Prospects:

    http://web.minorleaguebaseball.....p50/y2008/

    Top 10 should be there tomorrow.

  231. Boston Dave November 29th, 2007 at 4:57 pm

    Rick Porcello is #14… almost made his way to the Yanks too. oh well.

  232. S.o.S.27 November 29th, 2007 at 4:59 pm

    Its funny, when we talk to bobcat it like were asking questions to a wiegie board. Yes or No?

    I came to the conclusion that bobcat is really a ghost.

  233. marc November 29th, 2007 at 4:59 pm

    please…really, why would andy retire? taking the kids to school will get old real soon. how many times has his buddy rog retired now?

  234. Jax November 29th, 2007 at 4:59 pm

    Man the Yankees where that close to getting Rick Porcello. Freak-in Tigers.

  235. marc November 29th, 2007 at 5:02 pm

    and…the mets are nuts for not trading reyes for santana.
    you saw his true colors with the collapse, he was in another world.

  236. CB November 29th, 2007 at 5:02 pm

    The MLB prospect rankings seem a little strange.

    Wade Davis is the 12th best prospect in baseball and a better prospect than Jacob McGee?

  237. Boston Dave November 29th, 2007 at 5:03 pm

    Dont look now but Tampa Bay, yes Tampa Bay… looks like they may have one of the best starting pitching staffs in baseball in a few years (and 3 lefties)

    Kazmir L
    Garza R
    Price L
    McGee L
    Shields? R

  238. Grant November 29th, 2007 at 5:06 pm

    CB, those are good points, but I trust Cashman to get good value for him, Santana is prety good value. I would hate to see him go, but with Betances and Brackman coming up behind Joba and Ian we still have a lot of good young arms. Also when did that come out? It looks like Joba hadn’t made his debut based on the (MLB) next to Melkyand Hughes’ names.

  239. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge November 29th, 2007 at 5:06 pm

    They are only taking that Jorge said that Andy is leaning towards retirement and making a non story out of it. Until we hear an announcement from him or the Yankees I don’t believe it.

  240. Mitchell's Eleven November 29th, 2007 at 5:06 pm

    God, I hate the Fan.

    At least Michael Kay was talking about how pitiful the Mets’ farm system is….

  241. CB November 29th, 2007 at 5:08 pm

    Boston Dave,

    I posted about tampa’s young pitching yesterday – they also have Jeff Niemann and Wade Davis.

    Also – kazmir, price and mcgee are all left handed. They are probably 3 of the 4 best young left handed pitchers under 25 in all of baseball (along with Kershaw).

    Think about how much the yankees are trying to get santana as a lefty – tampa has three high ceiling left arms.

  242. S.o.S.27 November 29th, 2007 at 5:08 pm

    Just a tought. Does anyone think that maybe pitching in a dome(good weather)half the time might be part of the success factor in Santana. Can the weather cause wear more wear and tear.

    All I can think about is when Randy came from warm weather to New York and lost alot of his velocity. Same with the FatToad.

    Maybe im trying to justify possibly losing him to another team be thinking his success had to do with his home.

  243. CB November 29th, 2007 at 5:09 pm

    Grant,

    the mlb status is based on rookie status. joba is still a rookie based on innings pitched. hughes is not.

  244. SJ44 November 29th, 2007 at 5:12 pm

    Mike and the Mad Dog have no idea what’s going on.

    They read the newspaper and online reports, then go on tangents pumping for phone calls.

    They have no insight into what’s going on.

    They are just regurgitating stories on ESPN.com.

    Right now, its best to go on a news blackout and just wait it out.

  245. Boston Dave November 29th, 2007 at 5:14 pm

    good point CB… I didnt see your post yesterday but if they actually keep these guys around… the AL East may become a warzone. Toronto has some good young guns. Even with Bedard and Guthrie, Baltimore might be in the basement soon.

  246. PittsburghYankeeFan November 29th, 2007 at 5:23 pm

    There is the magical sentence (from Bobcat, no less):

    6) The Twins are hoping/assuming the Yankees think Santana wants to play somewhere other than NY. The Yankees can’t officially confirm same with Santana, as that would be tampering. Officially.

    Santana has the Twins by the short ones. Period. Did Torii Hunter and Gardenhire ever say that Santana got a rush out of playing in Fenway? Did the Sox ever say how much the desired Santana?

  247. PittsburghYankeeFan November 29th, 2007 at 5:26 pm

    Bobcat

    It’s pretty interesting seeing who in the media is acting as Boston’s shills..this gives me at least an idea of who can be trusted going forward.

    Olney, Heyman for two look like pure Theo fanboys today.

  248. Rob NY November 29th, 2007 at 5:26 pm

    the thing i dont get amid this giant cluster **** is why bother…. if santana is gunna block a trade to most cities than let the twins get jerked around and have johan say no thanks and pitch in minni again next year…. and sign him for the same K you were gunna give him as an extension? Trading the moon for the guy seems kind of worthless

  249. LathamJoe November 29th, 2007 at 5:33 pm

    “a $51M lump sum payment is MORE than $51 over 6 years. it is not apples and oranges. the sox have plenty of money. if they want santana, the money wont be the main reason they dont go after him.”

    Boston Dave:
    As I said earlier, the Red sox will have the dollars to afford Santana for 6 yrs/$150. In 2009 they can free up Manny’s salary ($20 Mil) and Schilling ($8) to pay for Johan. The question, however, is whether they’re willing to part with Ellsbury and so far the answer is “No”. Since The Red Sox currently have a solid starting rotation with Lester & Bucholtz being added to Beckett/Schilling/ Dice K making this deal for Santana is not as critical for Boston as it will be for the Yanks.

    BTW, the $51 Million lump sum paid out for Dice K was a totally different circumstance – The Red Sox FO wanted desperately to enter into Japanese market with a high profile player. The $51 Mil is a small investment verses the return that is expected in merchandising for Dice K.

  250. YankeeFan November 29th, 2007 at 5:39 pm

    registration, please ?

  251. Mitchell's Eleven November 29th, 2007 at 5:42 pm

    SJ- no kidding. News blackout is on. My #1 source of info, at the moment, is…….Bobcat. I have no clue how I should feel about that, but it’s true.

    Hey Bobcat, no pressure at all, buddy. No pressure at all. :)

  252. small schools November 29th, 2007 at 5:50 pm

    Migames and others knocked me earlier for asking what big name free agent or trade acquisition has worked out well for the Yankees. They supplied an endless list of names that they said built the backbone of our title teams. I was away from the computer and couldn’t respond until now, but better late than never. Just wanted to discuss a few of those:

    AROD: I love him, but the fans have deplored him since he got here, and he’s been held to impossible standards (part of what was implied in the question). I’ve been very happy with him, but let’s not forget that was a straight up trade for a guy who’d be getting nearly as much in the near-future. Not quite the same.

    Knoblauch: Are you serious? The biggest headcase to ever pass through the organization? The guy wasn’t all bad, and I felt bad for him, but we traded a lot (Eric Milton would’ve been nice to have in the first years of this decade) to get an elite leadoff hitter and gold glove second baseman, and didn’t get that return. When we got him he was 29, we were through with him within four years. And it’s worth noting we got him from the Twins.

    Cone: Worked out great, but I have no memory of what we traded for him, so I can’t comment.

    Moose: Awesome all-around. No regrets. Nobody traded for him, though.

    Sheffield: Complete disaster, despite his stats. Team chemistry got immediately better when he got hurt in 2006.

    Giambi: Really? You’d call him a success?

    Clemens: The centerpiece of the trade was a pitcher about the same age (Wells) who didn’t keep himself in shape. Doesn’t compare to mortgaging the farm. As good as he was for us, he never duplicated the two triple crown seasons he had with the Jays.

    Orlando Hernandez: For every El Duque, Hideki Irabu and Jose Contreras laugh their way to the bank.

    Girardi and Strawberry: You compare these two to Santana?

    Cecil Fielder and Bobby Abreu: both were dumped on us by their former teams for nothing. Doesn’t compare.

    Andy Pettite: a fan favorite returning home. Not the same situation.

    You also neglected to mention the last four “ace” pitchers they’ve gone after so hard.

    Javier Vazquez: This all seems so familiar because we went through it four years ago. Two future every-day players(Nick Johnson and Juan Rivera) traded for the biggest bust in this town since Frederic Weis.

    Kevin Brown: Do I need to say anything?

    Randy Johnson: Ditto above.

    Carl Pavano: Ditto above.

    Just imagine if we had traded Soriano in 99 or 2000 for Juan Gonzales or Sammy Sosa, like everyone wanted to do. People have short-term and selective memories in times of desperation (which these are if the Sox have two titles since our last one). But the team is getting better and stronger, and shouldn’t change course.

    Trading four future/current starters or stars for one who pitches once every five days and demands 25 million is not worth it. Period, end of discussion.

  253. LathamJoe November 29th, 2007 at 6:06 pm

    small schools:

    Cone – a Free Agent, so maybe a draft pick may have been given.

    Wells – don’t forget that he was also signed as a free Agent in 1996 and gave the Yankees 16-10 and 18-4 before being dealt to Toronto for Clemens.

    el Duque: As an International Free Agent, he cost us nothing but salary and without his big game contributions from 1998-2000 the Yanks probably don’t win 3 straight world championships.

    I guess you are just focusing on the last 10/11 years and have forgotten the 70s and 80s – acquisitions like Willie Randolf for Doc Medich, Mickey Rivers & Figueroa for Bobby Bonds, signing Free Agents Goose Gossage, Reggie Jackson, Dave Winfield, Catfish Hunter..just to name a few!

  254. kunaldo November 29th, 2007 at 6:10 pm

    Small schools……Santana is not an “ace” pitcher….he’s an ACE pitcher….those guys were either coming off ONE good year and over valued, or were way past their prime

    Santana had his worst statistical year in 07(not decline, aberration, he’s only started for 4 years!)……….and he was still like 5th in the Cy Young voting!!!

    I love all our pitching prospects…but everybody has to stop drinking that kool-aid that all our prospects will bloom into stud pitchers…IT DOESNT HAPPEN! sure, some may, but more like one out of the top 3 we have…

    That being said, I think we can hold onto Hughes…sox arent a real player, so i think kennedy cabrera and 2 other guys would do the trick

  255. small schools November 29th, 2007 at 6:25 pm

    I don’t remember the 70s and 80s because I was born in 1988, but my impression was that Steinbrenner grew obsessed with big-name speed guys during those years and hurt the team later on (losing guys like Jay Buhner, Al Leiter and I’m sure others). I agree; not all of our prospects will develop into great players. That’s why in my opinion Melky should be the one untouchable in any deal discussed; he’s already a very good player with an extremely promising future, and he transforms the dynamics of the team. I’m personally not as sold as the others as everyone else. But I think history has shown that trades like this rarely work out (not to say they never do, but the above examples prove that they usually don’t). And furthermore, on a not unrelated topic, I don’t want to be paying $20 for Bleachers seats (I already can’t afford anything else except the upper deck) because we have 70 million dollars locked up in three players when cheaper home-grown alternatives could do nearly as well. Everyone is bugging because they think we need an ACE to win a playoff series. But how will you react in a year if we trade Melky, Hughes Kennedy and Duncan for Santana, pay him 25 million, watch him win 18 games, and then have a terrible game in the playoffs (as any great pitcher regardless of name is prone to do occasionally, just ask Pettite or Wang). Will you think it was worth it then? Hell, what if we do that and those four help lead a suddenly stacked Twins team past us in that series (a front three of Liriano, Hughes and Kennedy is pretty good). All four of these guys are major league ready now, if even two of them develop out over time (and Melky is already on track) then this trade would likely go down as a bad one.

  256. Shamus November 29th, 2007 at 6:27 pm

    Pittsburgh fan…

    Heyman and Olney were both Yankees beat writers for years and years.

    However, Olney now works for pro-Sox ESPN, and Heyman is an SIguy…

    But I usually trust Heyman to an extent… He has the NYY has the favs to land Johan.

  257. ET2012 November 29th, 2007 at 6:28 pm

    If the Buster Olney report is right, and Santana winds up in Boston for Lester and Coco and a couple of unknowns, either the Minnesota GM has been hipnotized, or Theo is practicing vodoo-magic on the guy!!!

  258. Ura Hack November 29th, 2007 at 6:47 pm

    Folks, Jon Lester is a mediocre soft-tosser, a #5 starter at best, and Coco Crisp is complete garbage. That story is ridiculous- Melky Cabrera alone is worth Lester and Crisp.

  259. Ducky Bent November 29th, 2007 at 7:00 pm

    Here is the part I’m confused about, regarding something Bobcat is saying. IF the Sox and/or Twins are planting these leaks just to drive up the Yank’s price, why the rumored low end deal with Lester, Crisp and Company? Why not “leak” that they are discussing trading Buchholz and/or Ellsbury to the Twins so the Yanks beef up their offer even further? Or if that would drive the Yanks away, something more attractive than Lester, Crisp, Lowrie, etc?

    Bobcat, can you explain? What am I missing here?

  260. marc November 29th, 2007 at 7:32 pm

    everybody back from yankee hot stove?

  261. Tom McKenna November 29th, 2007 at 7:58 pm

    How many times does a Yankee fan above the age of reason have to say it?
    I want to see these young guys pitch for the Yankees. Let Santana pitch for someone else.

  262. farawayinPA November 29th, 2007 at 8:37 pm

    Gene Michael’s comments on the sidebar at Espn.com reflect a voice of reason in the chaos of the Santana situation.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3133598

    Other than the Torre decision, it seems as if the Yankees have finally woken up and begun acting rationally. Keep the kids, let Boston overpay in years and dollars for Santana, build from within, and get an ace or near-ace when the price is right. And only then.

    Frankly, I noticed Pete’s comments earlier about Santana, and the stats do breed suspicion as to what would happen down the line. (Please no more Johnsons or Browns or Irabus or Vasquezes or Weavers or poor dear Ed Whitsons or Steve Trouts etc., etc, etc.).

    The only significant, good trade for a pitcher that I can remember was Wells-Clemens. And Wells wasn’t too shabby for The Jays, it’s jut that Roger lasted longer for the Yankees. Yankee Stadium is littered with the carcasses of hopes for the next great pinstripe pitcher acquired through trade. Doesn’t happen. Excuse me, Wetteland was a trade in…1995.

    Please correct me if I’m wrong. Traded pitchers, anyone?

    Two thoughts:

    1) The Yankees win when Gene Michael comes back into influence and for several years thereafter.

    2) How does SJ44 get that info? Not a skeptic, just curious.

  263. GL November 29th, 2007 at 11:13 pm

    Doesn’t anyone wonder why a professional athlete who’s 35 coming off a solid year would be leaning towards retirement?

    I too believe Roger has something to do with this. Andy is the ultimate competitor. The excuse of wanting to be with his family is comparitively weak. At the very least, there is more to this than meets the eye…

    That being said…I love Andy and want him back!

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