Posada talks about his deal (and Santana)
-
- November
- 29
Here is the audio of Jorge Posada’s conference call with the media this afternoon:
Brian Cashman was a no-show on the call. Either he didn’t want to answer the questions about Johan Santana or is leaving them to Hank Steinbrenner. Probably both.
ESPN.com is reporting that Boston has offered Jon Lester and Coco Crisp to Minnesota along with two prospects. If nothing else, that is an offer that will bleed the Yankees.
Lester is 11-2, 4.68 in his career and is coming off a very good start in the World Series. Crisp was not what Boston hoped when they traded for him, but he was a productive player in the AL Central for three seasons and is signed to a reasonable contract ($10.5 million over the next two seasons).
Lester is better and has more of a track record than Ian Kennedy and Crisp is a proven Major League player. Melky Cabrera is a better hitter and far cheaper, however. Phil Hughes and Cabrera trumps Lester and Crisp, I think. Then it’s a question of what other prospects to include.
Do not underestimate the power Santana has in this transaction. He has a full NTC and would clearly want a huge extension to get traded. To that degree, he can dictate where he wants to go.
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on Thursday, November 29th, 2007 at 4:21 pm by Peter Abraham.
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SAVE PHIL HUGHES!
That is all. Thank you.
Santana to the Yankees. Pete will confirm this.
Please. There will be no trade today.
If Hughes is traded, I will become a Twins fan.
Cashman wasn’t born yesterday, folks.
A deal like that almost seems too easy for Boston: an expendable CF who has no place on the team next year, and a good young pitcher on a team with a surplus of pitching (to the degree that it’s possible to have too much pitching).
If Cashman and Steinbrenner asked me, I’d advise that the Yankees should not panic and give up pieces more valuable to them than the Sox are to their own team.
After listening to the Posada call my favortie line is when Posada thanks the Mets,”I appreciate everything they did” yes that lunch on Omar had a very positive effect in making the Yanks offer bigger so the least he could do is thank him for the free lunch lol.
From a PR point of view having Cashman on the call makes it a different kind of call especially since he has not spoken to the press in a while so the question would have been about Santana etc etc.
In that same vein Posada when asked said he didnt even speak to the Steinbrenners and the only person he talked to is Cash so that also says a lot.
i hope everyone remembers their position on this hughes thing when he wins nine games with a 4.5 ERA next year and then suffers a series of injuries over the following three or four years.
Way too easy for Boston.
i’m just so confused. why would the yankees need a “number 1” when they have wang who – as has been clearly chronicled here – is the very definition of an ace. so weird.
unless, wait, maybe wang’s not really an ace? naahhh. what would posada know.
Ff he proves you wrong will you stop posting here? condescending prick.
Lester’s record is extremely misleading.
I have seen many of his games and he is typically behind in counts, in and out of trouble and several times has been rescued from early exit by extraordinary defense behind him or questionable umpire third strike calls. This guy could take years to develop—very questionable command. I would compoare him to Alan Horne in that he has a live arm. But I’m quite certain Horne is better and will prove that in time. Kennedy is simply a different type of pitcher—but in his brief MLB career he has actually outpitched Lester. But Lester did have the good post season performance and this has evidently inflated his value.
Pete, re Posada, It doesn’t take a genius to know that Wang is not an ace. He was just thrown into that situation because the Yanks had no one better. Now Cash go get Santana.
Umm… Lester is better than IPK? Based on what. Kennedy’s minor league numbers are far better than Lester’s.
Granted he was ill, but Lester – aside from the World Series start against a deflated Colorado team – wasn’t that good.
a) Kasey – Hughes will do far better than that.
b) Santana wants to go to NY
c) IPK + Melky + 2 of the Trenton boys (Tabata Horne Jackson Gardner) beats anything the Red Sox can come up with in terms of prospects.
oopos forget something it is really interesting to me that people have such an affinity for Hughes in terms of saying things like I will become a Twins fan if he is traded. This is a guy who although very highly touted has only pitched 1 year in the majors and not even a full year and the times that he did pitch mostly were so so. It is not like Joba who has even less MLB time but made an impact in high wire situations or someone even like Melky who has been here only a year plus or a long term Yankee who has been here long enough for fans to develop that special fandom relationship. Not quite sure I get it.
Lester’s 11-2 mark is a bit of a mirage as he has shown a lack of command and has been a five inning pitcher in his brief MLB career. While you could chalk this up to inexperience, a high pitches/inning rate was also apparent in his minor league numbers. He gets extra points for being left-handed, but I am not sure that he is head and shoulders above IPK.
Lester MLB: 74 BB’s in 144 innings, ERA+ 101 (which is basically average)
Lester MiLB: 203 BB’s in 484 innings
Damn you Boston!!
We need a BULLPEN!
Lester has crap command, he’s not better than Ian Kennedy.
grafxkid: Don’t believe everything you read.
Lester and Coco? Way, way too easy.
Hey Posada,
Start calling Pettitte twice a week. And if Santana signs with Boston, make it everyday.
grafx: We’re apparently working on David Riske and Mahay (both EXCELLENT), which would bump up our bullpen two notches.
Santana doesn’t wanna go to Boston, remember although we cant officially hear about it cause it would be tampering, Santana has the final call on where he goes.
Not to be cruel, but why would Minn. give up the best trading chip in baseball for a package that included Lester?
Maybe he is recovered, but you never know when he could go into remission. Sure it sounds mean, but I wouldn’t take that risk.
Peter,
With the rule 5 draft coming up soon, why wouldn’t the Yankees wait (this resigning) to make this official and keep an extra spot open to protect an additional player?
Who cares what Boston offers. For the last time this is all in Santana’s hands where he wants to go. They could offer Minny Ortiz, Manny, Beckett with some added prospects and if Santana doesnt want to go to Boston, guess what, he wont be pitching at Fenway next year.
my last post didnt show..hmmmmmm
Trying again
1. Hughes (MLB)
2. Joba
3. Kennedy
4. Jackson
5. Tabata
6. Horne
7. Betances
8. Montero
9. Cabrera (MLB)
10. Brackman
BP’s top 10 Yankees under 25
Hughes & Cabrera easily trumps Lester & Crisp. Kennedy & Cabrera possibly does as well.
Lester throws harder than Kennedy but has no control. Even in the minors, he walked a lot of guys. His overall numbers last season were almost identical to Farnsworth’s numbers. Rasner’s numbers so far are better than Lester’s, so if you want to go off proven track record, we should be talking about him rather than Hughes/Joba/Kennedy.
And I’d certainly say the cancer history increases his risk of future health issues.
Red Sox fans overvalue Lester like Yankee fans overvalue Kennedy.
I’d also value Crisp slightly over Melky, ignoring the 10x salary difference.
From my perspective, the Red Sox are totally in the driver’s seat on this. The Yankees cannot afford to have the Sox throw Sanatana, Beckett and Dice-K at them for at least the next three years. They HAVE to outbid Boston.
And they know that Boston won’t be bluffing, especially when it comes to starting pitching. They gave up Hanley Ramirez for Beckett, and were “stuck” with Mike Lowell’s contract in that deal. They are not just trying to up the ante …. they will bid high (remember the $51 million posting fee for Dice-K) because they are serious.
A happy sidebar for the Red Sox is that, if the Yankees do get Santana, the Sox will have forced them to pay an excruciating price. The Sox went hard after Dice-K to avoid a Wang, Hughes, Dice-K troika for the foreseeable future. The Yankees are now behind the same 8 ball the Sox sought to avoid.
Also, let’s get real ….. Hank Steinbrenner’s ego will drive the Yankee offer much more than Cashman’s talent evaluation. The New Boss seems pretty secure in his knowledge of all things baseball, and he will certainly see the acquisition of Santana, at any cost, as a necessity.
I think people need to analyze Lester without bringing the cancer survival into it.
It has no indication of how he will pitch, what pitches he has, how many guys he’ll strike out, how many guys get on base, etc. If anything he’ll be better than he was over the past year. He’ll have less of a mental burden and will be able to concentrate on baseball.
I still like our guys better.
why is lester and coco too easy? lester’s a lefty who has proven that, at the very least, he can compete at the big league level, including throwing a pretty decent game in october. ian kennedy is… um, not that.
coco crisp can be an electric leadoff hitter or a light-hitting, noodle-armed centerfielder, depending on the season. the belief could easily be that he just needs to get back out of the limelight, like he was in cleveland.
melky’s cheaper than coco, but to say he’s better isn’t a clear-cut argument.
kennedy’s MINOR league numbers may be better than lester’s, but lester has proven himself – at least to some extent – in the bigs. kennedy has not.
it’s not too easy for boston just because you want it to be. the fact could very well be that the twins prefer the red sox players.
the fact could very well be that, like seemingly every armchair GM here on the board, cashman and co have seriously overvalued their own prospects.
and no, if hughes wins more than 9 games next year, i’m not going to stop posting here. when he goes 11-9 with that 4.5 ERA and santana is 18-5 with a 3.2 you can tell me to eat crow because hughes won those two extra games.
the kid has sustained elbow, shoulder and hammy injuries ALREADY, lost velocity on his fastball, lost command on his curve, and hasn’t proven that he can consistently command his change. but, yeah, keep telling yourself he’s god’s gift.
Dog is really stirring the pot on WFAN… alot of people hate him… i love him, he makes yankee fans nuts… I am a yankee fan – but i love him
To the fans bashing Lester: wake up.
How many other lefties under 25 have his stuff?
TWO: Kazmir and Hamels.
Guess what? Kazmir also has command issues. You wouldn’t trade Kennedy for Kazmir?
And take Lester’s numbers with a grain of salt. The guy had cancer. Happy he’s okay now and he should be good from here on out as long as he can control his walks.
Too bad Philip Hughes is pretty much better than Dice-K buddy.
and why wouldn’t santana want to play in boston? because he likes the “big stage in new york,” right? what with boston being such a small-market team and all. i mean, it’s not as if the red sox play ten games in yankee stadium every year or anything. oh, wait. they’re the defending world champs, he’d be pitching behind a potent offense and in a rotation with josh beckett. what, exactly, is so off-putting about that scenario if you’re johan santana? the money? the spotlight? the opportunity to go into a season the odds-on favorite to win the world series? yeah, sounds AWFUL.
Ah, this is where everybody went. I saw this about 10 minutes ago in the nyyfans forum. Looks like a legit Bobcat update. Let’s hope the Yankees don’t blink and insert Hughes. I’ll be $$%%##@!
Quote:
Bobcat
November 29th, 2007 at 4:22 pm
Quick Santana update:
1) As expected, this is the “public posturing†portion of the negoiations. Feed the media, try to force the trade partners to up the ante. You read what you’re supposed to read.
2) None of the published “scoops†are original. They are team-fed. Take them for what they are worth. Nothing.
3) The teams are negotiating. The Twins are trying to get the Yankees to add more. The Red Sox are NOT giving up their big boys.
4) The Yankees and Twins have agreed on various combinations. The Twins are now (as expected) trying to extract more because of the “other trade partnersâ€.
5) The Yankees have much more to gain by adding Santana and much more to lose by not getting Santana (duh). They can add pieces if they want, but it won’t be a big boy.
6) The Twins are hoping/assuming the Yankees think Santana wants to play somewhere other than NY. The Yankees can’t officially confirm same with Santana, as that would be tampering. Officially.
7) This is proceeding at its expected pace. Impatience is expensive.
This may be less than what you were looking for, but I’m not in a position to “announceâ€. Never have been. I can confirm or deny published reports. You have that information above.
If the Sox deal is legit, I hope Bobcat is right about Johan not wanting to play in Boston and exercises his rights to refuse to negotiate with them.
That said, it would be nice if Johan went public with his wishes. If this is a negotiating ploy by the Twins and Sox to drive up the Yanks cost, why would Santana allow it? Why would he want the Yanks – the team he supposedly wants to play for – pay up with more high level prospects?
Kasey, I know Lester has MORE experience than Kennedy.
But last I checked Kennedy WAS 2-0 with a like 1.8 ERA last season in the majors right? Even if I agree that he isn’t proven he HAS proven that he can compete at this level.
He’s actually fondly mentioned NY multiple times, and never said a word about Bahston. In NY he’d be the Ace for the biggest sports franchise in history. In Boston, he probably wouldn’t be the Ace due to seniority of Josh Beckett.
There’s something huh?
Brian (Red Sox Fan)....GO AWAY !
Until we hear from santana himself, dont assume he only wants to play in new york and for the yankees. If a team is offering a huge sum in exchange for him dropping his no trade clause, im sure he will seriously consider it.
if it requires giving up melky… absolutely not. no way. i’d rather have boston take santana then us lose melky. you guys are nuts if you think otherwise.
Brian with more of his nonsense about Hank Steinbrenner. Proving once again, he has no idea what he is talking about.
What “excruciating price” is it going to cost the Yankees?
Has ANY deal been done yet?
How ‘bout this. Wait until a deal is made, then offer perspective and opinion.
Bobcat,
I just started reading your posts. Sounds like you really know your stuff. Can this Santana trade happen with hughes, jackson, and one or two low level guys?
Hey Kasey
“and why wouldn’t santana want to play in boston?”
have you ever been to boston? could there be any more drunken borderline racist sullys there? from what i have heard santana likes the idea of playing where there is a big latin american community and ive been to fenway you can count the number of minorities in that stadium on your fingers.
Melky is a nice player but is easily replacable. You include him all day, everyday. I like Melky, but the real concern is loosing Hughes. Remember, you do have to give up players of value to get something in return.
wherever santana goes, he’s an ace. period. schilling got the opening day nod last year and beckett seemed to handle it pretty well, don’t you think?
2-0 with a 1.8 ERA is impressive. you should ask chase wright and tyler clippard how big an indication two starts are of a player’s ability to perform at the major league level.
“have you ever been to boston? could there be any more drunken borderline racist sullys there? from what i have heard santana likes the idea of playing where there is a big latin american community and ive been to fenway you can count the number of minorities in that stadium on your fingers.”
yeah, ortiz and ramirez seem to HATE it there.
steve
November 29th, 2007 at 4:51 pm
if it requires giving up melky… absolutely not. no way. i’d rather have boston take santana then us lose melky. you guys are nuts if you think otherwise.
__-
?????????????????????
For those saying Lester has great stuff and has proven he can compete in the big leagues, go take a look at his #s and some of his starts. He has proven that throughout his career he cannot command his pitches and rarely goes beyond 5 innings. His k:BB is atrocious and has never struck out a lot of guys. He has proven that he can be league average and walk the line between disaster and decent start. if you are the Twins, do you really make that the centerpiece of a trade for your superstar? Oh, and Crisp? Crisp had an ops+ the last 2 seasons right around 80. That’s awful, just terrible. He can make some good catches in the OF but has a terrible arm. Plus, he is not going to improve-
like Youkilis, hes old enough where he is what he is-a 28 year old who isn’t what anyone could call electrifying, or even league average.Just remember, Smith is a smart GM, he knows who Crisp is and who Lester is, and I would be absolutely shocked if this was the final package—its a start…
i hope these trade rumor leaks cease or the trade gets done soon… i am going to take the wordpress server down with my refreshes on this blog otherwise
kasey- the racism, weather, and that boston is far from being the center stage. they’ve won as many world series as the blue jays in the past 90 years.
I’m from Boston, and there are a zillion latinos in this city. I’m 4 minutes from downtown, and the city I live in is 58% hispanic. There are lots of latinos here. Don’t believe everything you see on TV. Like Bobcat says, they only tell you what you’re supposed to hear. 80)
BTW, I am a Yankee fan from Boston, and not a Redsox fan.
For the first ever, I heard the BoSox piece on 1050 and immediately went, “for god’s sake, offer them Hughes now!”
I don’t know if I’m losing it or not.
lowercase steve, so you’re a red sox troll, huh? cool. Melky’s good, but I’ve already wished him the best in Minnesota, myself. I’ll look forward to seeing him again at the ASG in 2010.
Guys, I think we should just trust what we’re hearing from Bobcat, esp. since there are rumors out now that Nathan’s being traded to the Brewers. Remember what he said this morning and last night (I’m assuming Bobcat’s a guy, which might be wrong, for which I apologize to all womanhood including myself).
Kazmir (19-20yr old)Minor League #
ERA WHIP
2.41 1.12
Lester (18-23yr old)
3.33 1.31
Hamels(19-22)
1.43 0.95
Hughes(18-20)
2.09 0.86
Kennedy(21-22)
1.87 0.97
Which one of these is not like the others? Which one does not belong?
Yeah well, there is also that little bit of indication that Kennedy had close to 200 minor league innings at a sub 2 ERA and was minor league pitcher of the year.
Id say in combination thats makes a pretty big statement.
You’re just sitting here arguing for the sake of arguing. You can say Kennedy isn’t that great all you want. He is.
Hughes has a 4.46 ERA in the majors and he is GONNA SUCK, while Lester and his 4.5 will be AWESOME.
Get your head, out of your ass.
I take Lester’s numbers with a grain of salt because that’s what they were before his illness. And to say that has electric stuff on par with Kazmir is laughable. Have you watched him pitch at all? He is a nibbler who needs to throw more strikes.
Now is not the time for doom and gloom posters. Hey Kasey, have you ever stopped to realize that the Yanks have leverage too (it is called Santana’s NTC). What makes you think that he WOULD want to play in Boston? Panic moves are never the way to go.
Kasey – in the last 5 years how many times has the manny and boston relationship almost broke up? and maybe ortiz does like it there but that completely sidesteps the point that santana has reportedly said he wants to go to a place where there is a large latin american community and there isnt one at fenway. thats a fact and you can ignore it all you want but it only makes you look silly.
Kasey: Hughes has had an elbow injury? I heard about his shoulder back in 2004 or 2005, but that was pretty minor and never popped up again. But I never heard of him having problems with his elbow. That’s news to me.
Yeah, so far the guy seems pretty injury prone and has already lost some zip on the fastball, but any pitcher who has recovered from two serious muscle tears is bound to lose a tick or two of velocity. Especially considering that so much of pitching utilizes the legs.
And regarding the changeup, lets keep in mind that the Yankees were, ideally, not going to use Hughes at all in 2007, and he would have spent the time developing that third pitch. Obviously, with Pavano and Igawa, things didn’t exactly work out as planned. I’m sure that his Spring Training regimen will consist of trying to perfect that third pitch until he’s blue in the face.
Do I think he’s God’s gift? Of course not. But he has the potential to be something much more than he showed us in 2007.
“kasey- the racism, weather, and that boston is far from being the center stage. they’ve won as many world series as the blue jays in the past 90 years.”
racism: it’s working out pretty well for ortiz and ramirez there, wouldn’t you say?
weather: um, i hate to break it to you but the boston weather and the new york weather aren’t terribly different. it’s not LA vs. chicago we’re talking about here.
center stage: they’ve won two world series in four years. like it or not, boston and the yankees are the marquee franchises in professional baseball. sorry.
Honeslty I don’t think it would matter about the racism in the city if Johan would go to Boston or not, but it just seems like there are more latin players on the Yankees then on Boston. I mean who does Boston have beside Manny Papi and Lugo?
This just in:
Santan is going to the Hokkaido Nippon Ham Fighters for 65 billion yen and a nintendo Wii for theo…
Surprised no one saw this coming
Hughes is going to be terrific. Maybe not that ice cold ace we’ve seen in the minors, but clearly a top end, dominant arm for years to come. The kid has all the tools, and you just don’t let that go.
Real World,
Can you tell if it was posted here or nyyfan.com? Did Bobcat post it there or is it a cut and paste job?
Thanks.
has there been any word from bobcat?
I’m still sticking to my theory. Twins want to get their CF from the Nathan trade, unless they can get Elisbury for Santana. Boston would be nuts to do that.
I think a Yankees package looks like Kennedy, Horne, Betances… ??? maybe ohlendorfe. or Hughes and lower level guys.
All this stuff we’re reading is disinformation on everyone’s part. Melky and Coco are good CF but there’s better to be had from the Twins standpoint. Price-wise and talent-wise.
We have no clue what will become of hughes… The hughes we saw pitch so well down the stretch did not even have the good fastball he had before the injury….. Having Hughes, Joba and Kennedy or two of the three would not be the end of the world
not to quibble, but Boston’s weather is a little harsher than NY. Maybe not for most of baseball season, but probably in April and October, Boston can get quite a bit harsher.
Crisp is making 5 million a year too… Lets not forget that… Not alot for boston or the yanks, but might make melky look better to the twins
You guys can disagree with me, but I say Kennedy, Cabrera (who we WILL miss when runners regularly score from first with Damon’s weak arm), and Horne or Tabata, TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT. The Blosox are bluffing, and I say CALL IT! I just don’t see them forking over the $150 million Santana wants to waive his no-trade.
Worst case scenario, we go with Wang, Joba, Hughes, Mussina, and Kennedy, with Horne in the wings. I’m fine with that.
manny, not so much
weather, not terribly different, but different
center stage, no billboards in times square for boston
just speculation, but i’m sure santana can see the difference pinstripes make to a legacy. as much as it pains me to say, in boston, he would be an add on. in ny, he could be the reason for a ws ring.
So Crisp makes 10x what Melky makes. Is he 10 times better? hmmm…
Mel – More like: Is he even better?
“All this stuff we’re reading is disinformation on everyone’s part. Melky and Coco are good CF but there’s better to be had from the Twins standpoint. Price-wise and talent-wise.”
—-
Agreed; I suscribe to the idea of Nathan will get the Twins position players from the NL Central, and then the Twins will want cheap, young pitchers in a trade for Santana. Emphasis on cheap
I would trade Melky for Santana in a second. I agree, Damon’s arm stinks, but still. I think here’s what we do in that situation: Bobby in RF, Damon in CF, Matsui in LF, use Shelley and Brett Gardner to spell Matsui and Damon, and replace Damon if we’re playing a team that runs a lot (Angels).
Adam, there’s no way the Yankees are trading Betances. He is still a ways off from the Majors. They’re better off trading people that would be blocked from the Majors anyway, if that makes sense.
Besides, he’s got a ton of potential, and it would be a travesty for the Yankees to not even wait for him to pitch a full season before unloading him.
Let me get this straight. The Red Sox are gonna trade for Santana, giving up Lester and Coco Crisp. The Yankees on the other hand have to give up the number one pitching prospect in baseball. This is logical. If we have to give up Hughes, they should have to give up Buccholtz or Ellsbury or both. I dont see why our price is higher than the Red Sox. Seems biased to me. We should keep on the path of building from within. This Santana trade is setting us up for disaster.
You can talk all you want about the “kids”.
But, don’t kid yourself.
If the Red Sox rotation is Beckett, Santana, Dice-K, Schilling and Buchholz, with their bullpen, there is no way the Yankees staff, as presently constructed is better.
Its even worse if Pettitte retires.
Let’s be candid here. The Yankees need Santana. If they lose him, it will cost them MORE to get somebody else and that pitcher won’t be as good as Santana.
If its Hughes, then Hughes has to go.
Santana in the Yankees rotation changes everything.
no, no billboards in times square for boston. just an entire city completely devoted to a franchise. real quick, who’s boston’s cross-town rival that divides the city? off the top of your head…
the racism thing is a joke. ortiz, manny, lugo, tavarez, ellsbury (native american), crisp (african american), matsuzaka, okajima, etc. they’re not playing in mobile, alabama, man.
the weather’s a non-issue. santana’s not andruw jones.
the only valid point you make is that in boston, he’d be an add-on whereas in new york, he’d be THE guy. i mean, with the exception of jeter. and a-rod. other than that, though, he’d be THE guy. except for mo. but, after that, santana. number one with a bullet.
Blargh-
this thing is going to run through the meetings. They’ll shop Nathan a lot cuz he’s got a lot of value with his talent and price.
look for them to get a promising young CF that way.
Can’t trade Hughes.
I am calling the redsox’s offer a bluff cashman don’t give in. Stay firm with your offer.
thank you, sj44 for injecting a little bit of reality.
and for those crying foul that boston’s offer isn’t as good as the yankees, that’s life. sometimes a team takes what they want to. ask kevin mchale which offers were on the table for kevin garnett. you think the celtics really gave up the best package?
Can’t let them get Santana.
If it’s Hughes, I’ll drive him to Minny myself.
No matter what happens with the offers
We are the NEW YORK YANKEES
If Santana wants to be a Yankee then its up to him. We arent about one player (IE the Arod opt out) We made a fair offer, take it or leave it.
STAY FIRM CASH, THEY’RE BLUFFING YOU ! AND A BIG HELLLLLLLL NO TO ROBI OR JOBA
“We arent about one player (IE the Arod opt out)”
funniest post of the day. how’d that situation play out? last i checked, the ONE PLAYER is getting 300 million, some of which is contingent upon his SINGULAR chase of the home run record. hilarious.
racism thing is changing. garnett needed to be persuaded, but was and decided to give boston a shot. looks like that will pave the way for more athletes in the future to change their mind about boston.
racist comments don’t fly at the stadium. at fenway, even recently, they get chuckled at. i am sure though, that this will not be the case in not too far away future.
Please, if there is a God in heaven, don’t let the Yankees get this Santana chap. He will only take valuable starts away from our young talent.
Kasey,
I don’t think Olney’s reported Red Sox offer is going to get it done.
However, if you are the Yankees, you can’t let him go to Boston. Just can’t let that happen.
If it means giving up Hughes, you do it. Mainly because they have Chamberlain and other quality RH prospects in the organization.
Sometimes, to make a deal, it has to hurt a bit.
You don’t lose Johan Santana over Phil Hughes. You just don’t.
If they do, that’s a bad call on their part.
That SINGULAR record (if he breaks it) means so much mroe production for NYY.
I don’t know what your allegiance or team is but you are ridiculous. Maybe you should tell me your team so I can ridicule you?
This is like a giant game of BS. Specualting what it will take to trade for Santana is impossible. Im still thinking a team will jump in and sweep him away, someone like the Dodgers. Their system is rich with prospects and they need to give Joe Torre a bit of talent. Why would Santana decline a trade to the Dodgers? Its a great situation.
You know, there are certain people on this blog that act with respect towards others, even if they may vehemently disagree with them. Then there is kasey. Man, I know that this is a blog, and you can say basically what you want however you want to. But the condescension in your writing is astounding and incredibly rude. You are on a blog. Occasionally you will have to suffer some fools or deal with people who disagree with you. Do it with some class. For someone who tries to write weighty, meaningful music, you come off as petulant and condescending. I think everyone on the blog will echo my sentiments when I respectfully request that you try to treat others with respect. Thanks and all the best.
Actually if the Yankees really want this Santana chap, I suggest they send this Arod guy.
He will bring in all kinds of fans to that other team and help to reduce the Yankee payroll.
The Yankees have enough fans and the other team has lots of empty seats.
Thank You SJ… I’ve been trying to say that for days to all those who think Hughes, Melky, and AJ is too much for Santana.
It’s a big price, but if it means adding Santana and keeping him from the Sox, it’s well worth it. Boston with Santana is a nightmare scenario (esp if they keep Buchholz)
From nyyinsider.com
†The Yanks Boss’s and Brian Cashman are thinking of re-working the Santana trade so that Phil Hughes in not included. This would not be a deal breaker from what I’ve heard. What the Yankees would do is throw out players like Ian Kennedy (would have to be in), Melky Cabrera (would have to be in), Jose Tabata, Austin Jackson, Alan Horne and Dan McCutchen. I was also told that Alberto Gonzalez may be a throw-in on the Yanks side just for the Twins could have another SS option (wouldn’t be a bad idea on the Yanks part). I could see a Kennedy, Cabrera, Tabata and Horne (what the hell let’s throw in Alberto Gonzalez just to look nice) deal get done. “
I would actually do that deal before surrendering Phil Hughes. Also, sorry for the lack of updates, I’ve been VERY busy
ahoef, i’m a yankees fan. and if you can’t see the irony in the comment that the a-rod contract thing is an example of the yankees being “bigger than one player,” then i can’t help you, buddy. i mean, come on. ridicule me all you want, it doesn’t change the hilarity of catherine’s statement. a-rod, in his entire career, has ALWAYS been bigger than his team, bigger than the game. have you been asleep the last three years?
sj44, i agree completely. hughes COULD be very good. santana ALREADY IS great. the math’s pretty simple.
I’d say lets play the BS game if Minny is stupid to take that deal we go elsewhere w/ an offer, no need to up anything since we know what is going on.
“how’d that situation play out? last i checked, the ONE PLAYER is getting 300 million, some of which is contingent upon his SINGULAR chase of the home run record. hilarious.”
Call me naive if you want, and you probably will, but here’s how I look at that contingency contract. It’s basically kind of like saying “if you break these records, you get more money. You will break these records if you stay healthy. If you stay healthy, and do not leave our team, you will earn more money.” I don’t know. It’s kind of like the Yankees trying not to pay too much in case he craps out halfway through the contract.
If WE had Santana and the Twins wanted him for Hughes, Melky, and AJ… you would all be singing a different tune. We would be freaking out at the possibility of losing the best pitcher in baseball for 3 maybes.
The only problem with the Dodgers is, Frank McCourt has not shown he is a “big boy” when it comes to spending money on players.
Yes, they have the prospects. But, will they pay Santana?
That’s the caveat here.
Its just not the prospects, its the contract AND its getting Santana to waive his no trade.
I think he would waive his no trade to go to the Dodgers. I don’t think the Dodgers want to pay him 20+ million per year for the next 6 years.
Oy. Lester is 11-2 in his career, but he did actually pitch before he got to Boston. If there is anyone on earth – save Peter – that would evaluate Lester vs. Kennedy based on 13 decisions, they are complete fools.
Kennedy and Cabrera is – AT WORST – a wash with Crisp and Lester. Financially that deal is far better with Kennedy and Cabrera, and frankly, I would give the edge in talent to the Yankee tandem as well. Kennedy’s minor league numbers are ridiculously better than Lester’s, AND there is a small sample of outstanding results in the bigs. Lester’s is really not markedly bigger.
kasey – you are missing the point. its not so much that boston fans are racist although some of them definitely are, its that he has said he wants to play in a latin american community and it simply doesnt exist in fenway.
I seem to recall the Yanks having a winning record against the Sox and their deadly rotation this year. In fact, I seem to recall the Yanks cuffing them around pretty good once the team got healthy.
Kasey –
I am new to this blog, and that just now was the first time you didn’t talk down to me.
I can see what you are saying, but ARod making a statement out of signing a contract on his own to stay in pinstripes till the end of his career (in my eyes) says a lot.
In terms of the deals: Look at the nyyinsider post.
If you are going on the basis of Lester and Crisp vs IPK and Melky, thats that, but Trenton is SO STACKED with all kinds of 4 star recruits, that we can just add people on end, and its not like Minn doesnt need the players.
Boston cant do that.
SJ, they paid a ton (at the time) for Derek Lowe. They made a horrific signing for Pierre. You could argue that they’ve spent too much already, but it doesnt seem like the Dodgers problem is that they wont spend. Plus, you’d think Torre would have some input and had already discussed future moves when he agreed to manage. I dunno… I wouldnt rule them out due to the $$.
last I checked Masterson, Lester and Crisp aren’t the most healthiest projected player in their system
There are plenty of Latin Americans in Boston and the surrounding area. I am white and am easily in the minority (to Latin Americans) in my area (suburb of Boston).
I dont think Boston is seen as diverse as some other cities and certainly nothing like SoCal but I dont think that should be a major factor in Johan’s decision (if he is really worried about moving to an area with diversity).
That said, STAY AWAY from Boston Johan!
The Twins would not take Lester and Crisp with two B-level guys for Santana. If they would, then they’d be screwed and the Hughes/Cabrera package they want from the Yanks is pure overreaching. If the Twins settle for anything less than Ellsbury/Buchholz from the Red sux, then they’re selling too low. That package beats Kennedy/Cabrera (and one) but who cares. The Yanks simply should not dump Hughes—this kid can be incredible and under contract for years. Giving that up is pure stupidity.
Look: the Yanks had no unassailable #1 in ‘96 and won the Series; the Yanks had a pile of #2 pitchers in ‘98 and won 125 games; the Yanks traded for the defending two-time Cy Young Award winner and best pitcher of his generation before ‘99, and he had his worst season to date before becoming just a #4 starter in the World Series; in 2000, the Yanks had no ace (remember Clemens went just 13-8 and stunk against the A’s in the ALDS), and AGAIN won the World Series. The Yanks do not need Santana. How many World Series did the Braves of Glavine/Smoltz/Maddux win? One. How many Series did the D’Backs of Schilling/Johnson win? One. Remember the ‘02 NLDS—Cardinals in three over the DBacks even with Schilling and Johnson pitching games one and two. A Beckett/Santana combination does not end the “who will win the World Series” discussion in baseball.
But the Yanks need better than one decent start in four games—the ratio they’ve received in the past few years. To that end, add depth. Kennedy, Melky, and one of Tabata/Melancon/Marquez/Cox for Haren. That means Hughes, Haren, Wang, Joba and hopefully Pettitte or Moose, with Sanchez and Horne up next. Enough with the Santana infatuation—Haren is a 34-start guy who is at the upper echelon of the AL pitchers and costs less than $17M over the next THREE years. Even with the Yanks’ luxury tax burden, that’s less than $24M. Santana will cost the Yanks $28M/year minimum from 2009-on ($20M minimum on the contract, 40% luxury tax).
Save Hughes. Get Haren. Stop hemorrhaging money on players whose marginal benefit is outweighed by their exorbitant cost. Bleacher seats in the New Yankee Stadium should not cost $75 per just to pay for a pitcher who will be headed on a downslope by 2010.
ahoef,
i’m not sure it’ll work that way. if minnesota’s getting three players they value highly from boston, the yankees can’t just keep piling on players that minnesota isn’t necessarily in love with. with trades like these, it’s about quality as much as – if not more than – quantity.
in terms of condescending people, i apologize. but some of the stuff posted here is absolutely ludicrous. and people certainly feel obligated to let me know when they think i’m full of it.
kasey, you’re the voice of reason in this sea of fans who’s clearly drank the cool-aid that Cashman’s been serving. Stuff like “Don’t trade Melky!” makes me wonder.
Lester > IPK, Crisp > Melky. Lester is a LHP. LHP are much more valuable than RHP. Twins remember what a nice player Crisp was when he was playing in Cleveland.
If Yankees won’t include Hughes, Twins make the deal with Red Sox and you can’t blame them.
crisp stinks. I’m not a melky fan but he’s better than crisp. that’s a fact. lester, from what I’ve seen, isn’t anything special. he’s a decent middle of the order rotation kind of guy.
Hey Phil, do you also recall our rotation getting knocked around in the playoffs while Bostons flew right past us?
this is a completely different situation but flashback….
Arizona asked NY for Soriano AND Posada for Schilling (and schill supposedly preferred NY)
they then asked.. and traded Schilling for Brandon Lyon and Casey Fossum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
its not unheard of for teams to make foolish decisions but Minnestoa seems to be smarter than that.
“save hughes. get haren.”
here’s the thing about that. you want haren, you’re dealing with billy beane. in that scenario, santana may actually come CHEAPER.
Phil
November 29th, 2007 at 5:23 pm
I seem to recall the Yanks having a winning record against the Sox and their deadly rotation this year. In fact, I seem to recall the Yanks cuffing them around pretty good once the team got healthy.
I Remember those win when Yanks swept the Sox at Yankee Stadium while the Sox were resting Manny to be ready for their World Series Run.
Lester and Crisp > Fossum and Lyon… gulp
Brian (Red Sox fan) –
Thanks once again for your overwhelming obsession of the New York Yankees. Being little brother baseball must be painful to bear but you can share it with the average Boston fan ….
http://img86.echo.cx/img86/2235/freckles7md.jpg
What makes lefthanded pitchers more valuable? The whole lefty-lefty thing is extremely overrated.
Guys: I need your help.
How do I convince my parents to let me go to London for a few days over Christmas break to stay with a friend?
I’ve found a BA flight that would be $621 total, but I don’t have a way of paying for it on my own without getting quite a talking-to from the biological processing units.
This is so fun to see two well managed teams like the Yankees and Twins play their games…It’s gonna be interesting to see what works and what doesn’t…I still think Santana will fetch a lot of talent that you NYY fans will not like to see leave…but once he pitches for you, it will not matter what you have up…
still hanging out here on the ledge
NYY: Do you also remember that Manny wasnt resting, he started those games and got hurt?
Lester > IPK and Crisp > Melky are just two such crap statements, you can argue both ways, but I really think IPK has an edge on Lester, and Melky has a salary and age edge on Crisp.
The Dodgers had an awful offseason last year.
Players they signed during last offseason:
Juan Pierre – terrible offensive player and that is exaggerated by batting him in the top of the lineup. And they gave him 44 million over 5 years. Absurd.
Jason Schmidt – even if he stayed healthy he was grossly overpaid. but of course he couldn’t stay healthy
Nomar Garciaparra – They shouldnt have re-signed him considering the young guys he is blocking. And Nomar isn’t any good with the bat anymore, which was his only strength to begin with.
Luis Gonzalez – it was just a one-year contract but he still took at-bats away from their younger guys who are better than him.
And I’m probably forgetting about one or two others.
Their GM Ned Coletti is an idiot. The Pierre signing alone should be enough to get a GM fired. And bringing in Torre probably won’t help their younger guys get the playing time they deserve. They better have something else planned this offseason. Especially since Colorado, Arizona, and San Diego are all better teams right now.
thank you Matt…. good points
rebecca,
tell your parents it’s either london or you start dating somebody ten years older than you.
Santana would be a difference maker…Hughes is just potential. Take the proven lefty…at best, Hughes is going to grow into what Santana already is…and that is a best case scenario.
Rebecca…there is only one way…tell them it is a school-sponsored trip where you’ll get academic credit in addition to life experience. It always works.
kasey: you’re a musician, and I can only assume you’re older than Rebecca. Send pictures. Dirty ones. You’re her new “he’s my boyfriend unless I go to London” boyfriend.
Phil: That won’t work. I’ve used that excuse twice already—for a summer and for an entire term last spring.
The issue is the airfare. I’d feel horrible spending that money with no way to pay it back.
Boston’s offer is laughable.
DO NOT TRADE HUGHES UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!
Rebecca – why do you think your parents will say no? Is it just the money, or some other parental concern? Have you ever travelled by yourself out of the country?
It’s a great opportunity and you’re what, a college senior? This is the perfect time to go before you are tied down with a job, rent, blah, blah, blah. Plus, when you are young, you can stay in much cheaper places. Once you get used to the high life, it’s hard to go back.
“DO NOT TRADE HUGHES UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!”
That seems a bit too extreme…under any circumstances? A proven stud ace vs. a guy with potential to maybe, possibly, potentially grow into a stud ace? Not to mention a LHP at the stadium vs a RHP?
kasey, ha nice one
The word here in Boston is that Santana is going to demand a 6 year, $150 million deal. Yup, that’s $25 million per till he’s 35 years old. That’s from WEEI. Again, for me, there is no way I include Hughes. I’d overpay with other prospects if possible, but no Hughes. Let Boston trade for Santana, sign him for $150 million, while we transition in 2008. Then with experience under our young guns’ belt, concentrate on 2008. That’s my 2 cents.
PTI is about to do their odds on Santana to the Red Sox. This ought to be good. ESPN is soooooo Red Sox biased… IMO
maybe just try asking the rebecca. worst case, they say no.
Also, some internet chatter is saying that Santana only wants to go to NY, and won’t do an extension with Boston. Again, only chatter.
Yeah it is only chatter, but Ive heard that out of him multiple times, from multiple sides.
Motown: I was abroad last spring and abandoned by my travel companion in Florence on Spring Break and spent three days by my own in a country where I don’t speak the language or know anyone, so the on-my-own travel isn’t an issue.
The issue as I see it is that it costs a crapload of money, and I’ve already asked for my hanukah present (in the form of Amazon gift certificate) and this just came up…(other issues would normally be the foreign city and whatnot, but I remember London well enough, still have an oystercard I can put money on for the Tube, and I have a place to stay, with a friend I’ve stayed with before).
rebecca, short of asking them, do something to raise some money and contribute financially to the equation so your folks aren’t shouldering the entire burden.
I was just thinking…Boston must be completely out of the runnings for Santana…Because that offer clearly would never get it done, almost everyone realizes that…So now that rumor is spread, imagine if Boston gave up Ellsbury and more…Boston would be furious!...They must really be stead fast in keeping Ellsbury and Buchholtz to the point where the Twins just said to heck with them…
I love speculation…
Without looking at numbers, you can seriously tell me Lester doesnt have better stuff than Kennedy? That fact that Lester is a LHP is a big factor as well.
I don’t see why some people are so fascinated with Melky. .327OBP/.391SLG. He’s got a great arm, but his range is not adequate for CF. Crisp in his last 2 years at Cleveland put together very fine numbers for a CF. Crisp will also solve the leadoff problem for Twinkies, something Melky can’t to do.
on the bright side, trading hughes probably means we give up less bodies.
hughes/cabrera + 1
instead of
kenedy/cabrera/ + 2
i’m sure the deal will be fine.
how fast things change. hughes was the #1 pitching prospect in all of baseball before this past season. now he’s #4 or #5 or… i still want him on my team with santana.
I’d be more than surprised if Cash & Co. allowed Johan to go to Boston over not including Philip Hughes. I believe Minny is trying to up the ante to more than just Hughes/Melky/prospects. They probably want Hughes/Melky/Kennedy and if I’m the Yankees I’m holding firm.
I can’t see how the Twins would take Lester/Crisp over Hughes/Melky.
Lester walks a ton of guys I mean a ton. Walking a ton of guys when you play half of your games on a fast artificial turf that allows for cheap singles is a recipe for disaster.
The REAL Philip Hughes is a much better pitcher than Lester is. If you’re walking a TON of guys in the minors who will swing at anything then in the majors you are nothing more than a 5 inning pitcher. – End of Rant
I know this was a topic last night, and earlier today, but what about Jim Edmonds for one year in CF until the kids that are left (Jakcson or Tabata, if not traded for JS) after Melky is traded?
Damon’s arm just scares me… And ‘deki in left? Sheeshh…
Is the Deleon guy we have the same one that was a International Free Agent that every one wanted?
I don’t remeber playing Boston in the playoffs this year. Did I miss a series?
Joe,
We have Kelvin DeLeon and we signed him on July 2nd of this past year.
I would hate to see Santana go to the Red Sox. I also would also hate to see Hughes leave. I’m so torn.
Save Phil Hughes.
Trading him will come back to bite us somewhere down the road. I can see him shutting Yankees down for 7 solid innings in a playoff series 5~6 years into the future for some team (doesn’t have to be Twins)
Lester just does not fit the Twins history…We have never used pitchers with control problems…Santana, Brad Radke, Carlos Silva look at their walk numbers, those three are some of the lowest ALL-TIME…Prolly one of the pitchers on our team last year with the worst control is Garza…Look where that lead him…If Lester has the problems you say, then this makes no sense…Unless the Twins think they found something in his wind up that is holding him back (which twins all way talk about) but that’s a whole nother can of worms…
Btw everyone orgasms about what a great prospect Fuchholz is:
IPK 3G 19.0 1.89 ERA 1-0
Fuchholz 4G 22.7 1.59 3-1
Buchholz has an edge on IPK, but certainly not by much, whether you are talking experience or performance.
Rebecca,
Seriously, from a parent’s point of view, they’re going to look at it from a cost-benefit analysis. $621 to spend a few days with a friend does not benefit anyone in their eyes. Aren’t they saving for your wedding? Aren’t they recovering from your sister’s wedding?
Maybe you if you drop the hint, then say never mind it’s too much, then maybe they’ll sponsor a couple of trips to the Stadium. Last season and all.
bobcat-
Have the Twins initiated Nathan trade talks with the NL Central teams yet?
and on a side question:
what is the sickest craziest blockbuster trade proposal that got some prelim work on your end of the industry that never happened and never made it public?
You know, I wouldn’t be able to resist a laugh if we keep tallking and thinking about Santana and then out of nowhere we land someone we’re not expecting…
...like that whole thing where we got David Justice, only better-er.
Well if ya ABSOLUTELY GOTTA trade for Santana and don’t want to give up Phil Hughes, then don’t.
Maybe the Sox might be posturing for us to up the ante to Hughes (from IPK) by throwing Lester’s name into the mix. Maybe the Sox just don’t want to face a rotation with Hughes Santana Joba & Wang over the next 6-8 years. Even with Beckett Rice-K & Lester locked in for a while, they might need to grow a Santana clone to counter that.
If IPK is the pitcher the Yanks would rather offer up (instead of Hughes) then they should keep him in the package while making a better extension offer to Santana so he doesn’t waive his NTC for a Boston trade.
If the Yanks could possibly offer Santana enough of an extension to keep all 3 kids (admittedly at expense of other personell) then I’d like to see what other parts it’d take.
If Pettitte comes back, there could still become a mid-season need for a good arm. And still, both Pettitte & Moose would be off the map in 2 years at most so giving up good young (and cheap) pitching is a risk. More pitching is always better.
give Peter Gammons credit he can sure overhype Red Sox talent
seriously, hughes fans, i’ll say this again, and it echoes what a couple of other folks have already said:
think about it this way: the BEST case scenario for hughes would be that he ends up being as good as santana ALREADY IS. i mean, that’s it. it’s that simple. hughes may also turn out to be a mediocre pitcher with injury problems. point is, at 21, you CAN NOT KNOW. with santana, you’ve got a sure thing.
What I meant was that the Yankees told Arod is he opted out they wouldnt chase him
They didnt.
The Yankees shouldnt bend over and be absolutely raped by other teams. Arod opted out. We didnt chase him. Yes we are paying him the biggest contract ever…he’s arguably the best player in the game. Debate the contract all you want but Arod has never and will never be bigger than the Yankees. This is related to Santana because the Yankees have the X factor of being able to be a part of the Yankees. Johan and his NTC should see that. If he doesnt want to come here then fine. We have Hughes (who said today he wants to stay) and other great young arms. We cant sell our soul to this back and forth trade game. Make an offer and stick with it
Wilbon just gave Santana a 0% to the Sox while Kornheiser went with 80%.
Wilbon said he will go to the NYY. Stat Boy sided with Wilbon, for what its worth.
Wilbon’s take was that teh Sox are just trying to drive up the price for Johan on the Yankees, while Kornheiser thinks the Sox really want him, for them and to keep him from the Yankees.
About the same old arguement we’ve heard everywhere else all day!!!
Where is the Bobcat when you need some good intel?!?
Kasey,
No the best case scenario would be that he turns out as good as Santana WAS.
Its only a matter of time until Gammons rears his ugly face and says the deal to the Sox is all but complete…
Ranting Guy said: “Rice-K.”
good thing johan would never play somewhere with a fanbase of racist morons, right? come on, man.
The WORST thing anyone can do is to call something a ‘sure thing’.
There are no sure things.
(except that the Cubs will not win the World Series.)
Phil no offense. Johan is 28. He’s got another 4 years of top shelf pitching. And by top shelf I mean a
I can almost picture who on this blog is a parent and who isn’t. I feel like the Yankees raised Hughes from infancy (in baseball years) and Joba’s the adopted child and IPK is the foster kid. How can you push your own child out the door? The Humanity!!
“What I meant was that the Yankees told Arod is he opted out they wouldnt chase him.”
actually, what they said was if he opted out, they wouldn’t negotiate with him. “that ship has sailed,” i believe was the phrase.
then they backpedaled.
then they gave him a contract where he makes 30 million more for individual goals.
at best, it’s contradictory of your claim that the yankees are not about one player.
Hmm that cut off for some reason.. the post would finish:
... under 3.2 ERA with 20 wins.
Shamus, Peter is the mouthpiece to these Red Sox deals I believe any minute now like you aid old Q-tip will whiten the ESPN breaking news screen w/ the Red Sox are close to finalizing BS…
Gammons, the Red Sox shill, is really funny. Too bad everything I have heard about Masterson is that his injury history leads him to be profiled as more of a reliever. Way to be an independent journalist, Peter!
be back later peoples, remember, it’s all a ploy tonight until it’s final.
“The WORST thing anyone can do is to call something a ’sure thing’.
There are no sure things.”
and yet they should hang on to hughes because of his POTENTIAL, rather than pick up the best pitcher in the game over the last five seasons.
You guys do realize that Phil Hughes is a better prospect than Joba Chamberlain, right?
Most scouts have changed their minds on that one B.
mel:
I will give you the creative writing award for the evening!
Agreed…Santana is nowhere near the downside of his career.
Hughes can only hope to be where Santana is now.
Yes, B, we do realize that. But before there was a Joba, there was a Hughes. And Joba doesn’t make Hughes less of a pitcher, it just means he’s even better. Just because Diana Ross came along, doesn’t mean that the other Supremes couldn’t sing, she was just better.
Loserbob, if you have an equally talented LHP and RHP, the LHP is worth more. A slightly less talented LHP might be worth more.
But Kennedy tore up the minors and pitched well in a few starts in the majors. Lester pitched ok in the minors and has about a season’s worth of average at best results in the majors.
Based off track record Kennedy, is significantly better than Lester. In terms of injury risk, Kennedy is a much safer bet. Lester throws better, but right now he’s just a starting version of Brian Bruney.
As for Crisp and Melky, yeah, Crisp is a little better, no argument. If money’s not an issue, you take Crisp every time. But Crisp makes 10x the money Melky does. The only reason Santana would be traded is because the Twins can’t afford to keep him, so yes, money does factor in. If you’re the Twins, you have to seriously consider taking Melky and using the money you’d save towards deals for guys like Morneau or Mauer.
Oops, B, I had a dyslexic moment there, I thought you said Joba is better than Hughes. Who knows? Years may close the gap. One or the other may tail off or fail. Good problem to have, though.
Santana will be 29 next time he pitches, and wasn’t throwing his slider much down the stretch (where he got battered). I think coming to YS will extend him, but I’d rather have Hughes become the Santana of 5 years ago than become the Santana of now going forward.
Rebecca,
Do I get a gold star? And did you find my link for the football game on the other thread?
kasey,
Dude, your world is way to black and white.
too
Mel: Yes and yes, but I haven’t gotten sopcast to work on my comp—I’m on a Mac.
So I have spent the last week reading here, and not posting much.
One thing that I would like to interject is that I cannot believe that some of you guys actually use ‘payroll’ as your base point for your arguments. Money is not a fans concern, the Yankees make pleeeennntttttyyyyy of money! You don’t need to worry about how much a player costs them, their luxury tax etc.. it all comes back. The Yankees are a profitable corporation and will continue to be… leave the money to the money-men!
Second,
All of you that keep saying don’t trade him, him, and him, for Santana it’s not worth it.
Seriously folks, some of you are ridiculous.
Obtaining JOHAN SANTANA IS A ONCE IN A LIFE TIME OPPORTUNITY!! He is not 38 Big Unit was, he is 28 .. BLEEP BLEEP* Are you kidding me that you have compared him to this?? WAKE UP!
It’s not based on potential or possible arms being great.. its a fact. Don’t worry about the length of the contract.. don’t worry about the money, or who goes.. this deal has to happen.. and I am not even talking about Santana going to Boston. That’s a whole ‘nother can of worms.
The Yankee’s brass will put on their absolute best poker-face.. in the end, they will do whatever it takes to make this happen. Mark my words.
So stop counting chickens, and be thankful that we just may land the chicken-hawk!
“kasey,
Dude, your world is way to black and white.”
um, it’s a baseball trade.
“in terms of condescending people, i apologize. but some of the stuff posted here is absolutely ludicrous. and people certainly feel obligated to let me know when they think i’m full of it.”
ahoef, let me help you out here a little bit. I’m quoting kasey above this for a reason. I started visiting this blog around this time last year, and I think kasey was the first person I butted heads with. I realized later that I really respected the bulk of what he has to say and told him so here on the blog.
The thing is, within a month or so I totally got where kasey was coming from. kasey is probably a little more blunt and honest than I allow myself to be, and he takes his lumps like a man for it. I see posts everyday that make me want to verbally bitchslap people, but I realize that they aren’t worth my time. I’m not saying what Kasey does is wrong – we’re just different in our style. Matter of fact, I can think of one other poster here off the top of my head that every time I read one of their posts, I want to go hit someone. Literally. In the meantime, I’ve learned to skip over them. LOL Anyway, the reason I quoted him was because it shows that he is a stand-up dude.
kasey is a very realistic guy, and I agree with what he says 9 times out of 10. The times that I don’t I can certainly deal with because no two people are going to agree all the time. I honestly look forward to his input here. Oh, and he’s an excellent musician to boot.
But I will kick his a** if he doesn’t comw visit my site some day.
In today’s Baseball Prospectus, Kevin Goldstein rates Hughes over Joba.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=6957
I’m confused as to how Philip Hughes went from the best pitching prospect in the game, to a guy who almost threw a no-hitter, to a guy people wanted to start throwing under the bus as he tried to re-find his groove after a pair of severe injuries. Don’t believe the anti-hype—he’s still a stud
i like baseball, i just wanted to share that with everyone.
Mike R.,
The latest Baseball Prospectus rankings still put Hughes above Joba. I haven’t really seen Joba above Hughes in any rankings, just in hype caused by Joba’s excellent relief work.
I like the sound of this
1.Santanna
2.Chamberlain
3.Pettitte
4.Wang
5.Mussina(only because he is signed)
6.Hughes or Kennedy(depending on who gets traded)
Phil – there is zero guarantee Hughes will become any version of Santana. However there is an extremely strong possibility that Santana will continue to pitch well. Prime years for a pitcher are 30-34 because they have the experience to know how to pitch and not just throw during those