Cashman in the house
-
- December
- 3
Brian Cashman and Omar Minaya arrived here about 90 minutes ago. “Maybe later,” Cashman said when asked if he would talk to the media.
The Twins were peeved at Hank Steinbrenner’s ultimatum. But the Red Sox are anxious to get this issue settled as well. They have other business to attend to. One way or another, this will come to a head soon.
Minnesota insists it would not trade Santana unless it gets what it wants.
Nashville nuggets: The Orioles will trade Erik Bedard but want four prospects in return. The Mets want in that mix. … The Astros are being very aggressive and are seeking Miguel Tejada. … For once there are no Manny Ramirez rumors at this time of the season. … The managers will meet with the media starting tomorrow. The only no-show? Joe Torre. … There is a redeeming quality to his hotel after all: they stock Diet Coke. But this will become a Red Bull function soon enough.
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on Monday, December 3rd, 2007 at 5:28 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Peter Abraham
Jackson, Horne, and Kennedy for Bedard?
Hope the deal expires tonight.
Pepsi > Coke.
Francesa would love that place. All the diet coke you can drink.
stop trying to trade our future CF dammit !!!
Take the Boston offer Twins.
Mike,
Too much. That sounds about right for Johan.
Jackson is for closers! LOL
stop trying to trade our future CF dammit !!!
For our current ace? I`m okay with Melky
I’m better w/ Action
Tabata, Jackson, and Horne for Bedard?
Kennedy/Tabata/Horne for Haren. This would make me smile.
“Jackson, Horne, and Kennedy for Bedard?”
No way. The Twins should deal Santana to the Marlins for Miguel Cabrera, and then the Marlins can deal Santana.
Francesa would love that place…
Funny you said that, I’m watching Mike and Doggy right now and was thinking the same thing as I read the new entry…
Mike, if you want to save the Big Three, why are you trading one for Eric Bedard?
You forgot to throw in Cano in that trade Mike…
What would it take for the Yankees to acquire Huston Street? He’s just entering his arbitration years and about to get mighty expensive for the cost-conscious A’s. The perfect Beane trade chip.
Peeved ? who really cares ?
Wait, someone actually wants Boston to get Santana?
Mike, if you want to save the Big Three, why are you trading one for Eric Bedard?
THat should read “The Big Two”. Fixed now
Bedard isn’t getting traded within the division unless we way overpay (which it looks like anyone who wants Bedard is gonna have to do anyway).
Forget Bedard or Kazmir for that matter. AL East teams will not trade good starters to a team they face 19 times a year.
I can’t wait ‘til the Yanks drop out of the Santana race. They’ve been bidding against themselves for days.
wonderful, logical comments by Jim Kaat on the YES site:
http://www.yesnetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071203&content_id=1434487&vkey=8
“Kennedy/Tabata/Horne for Haren. This would make me smile.”
I wouldn’t make that trade. Haren has had one very good season but for the most part he’s been only a good pitcher.
Look at this careers stats. They aren’t great. Even last year he had some very concerning peripherals.
The yankees need an ace if they are going to make a move for a pitcher. They don’t need another good pitcher.
Others have said it, but it’s worth repeating: it’s highly unlikely that the Yanks will get Bedard from the O’s because 1) teams very rarely like to make big trades with division rivals and 2) Peter Angelos particularly hates the Yank-brenners. That doesn’t mean it’s impossible, just that it would probably take an obscene offer from the Yanks to get it done. So I really don’t think Bedard is a realistic fall-back option if the Yanks don’t get Santana.
I also wouldn’t be terribly excited about giving up what it would take to get Haren. He had an unexpected all-star first half last season, but I think that it’s telling that Beane would shop him now with his current contract status.
I’d like to see Boston get him too assuming a 6 year, $135MM+ contract is a part of that. Seems to be an insanely crippling deal given the inherent fragile nature of pitchers.
“Even last year he had some very concerning peripherals.”
What are Haren’s concerning peripherals from last season? Better than league average in K, BB and GB rate, a tiny tick better than league average better HR rate. His QERA (peripheral based ERA) was 3.61, better than Lackey and a lot of other very solid pitchers.
The Twins are peeved? They’re shopping offers between NY and Boston like they were two car dealers, with the Twins trying to get a Rolls Royce for $199 a month, no money down. Smith and Pohlad need to butch up a bit if they really want better than two lousy draft picks for Santana.
Very interesting if Erik Bedard is available. If Baltimore’s opening demand is four prospects, that means it will drop to three prospects. Yanks should give this a close look.
I’d go after Bedard only if it was doable, but hearing that Bedard hates the media makes me extremley cautious, to say the least.
Ah.
Well.
You know, I’m still on cloud 9 here…
Rebecca,
About the perfect score? How many more parts are there?
I can’t help but wonder if all those folks who think Dan Harren is a replacement for Santana realize that his career record is only 49-45 with a 3.86 ERA. Not even close to Santana and certainly not worth 3 top prospects.
Harren is the same age as CM Wang. Wang is 81 – 16, 3.74
“I wouldn’t make that trade. Haren has had one very good season but for the most part he’s been only a good pitcher.
Look at this careers stats. They aren’t great. Even last year he had some very concerning peripherals.”
I couldn’t agree more, CB. Haren is a flovor-of-the-month pitcher, IMO. He’s good, but he’s not great. He’s certainly not worth what Beane is going to bleed teams for in order to get him.
Harens not an ace but I`d compare him to Wang only mroe SO’s and therefore more reliable. He`s also cheap which DOES matter. The Yankees even have a limit and it would make the haters STFU.
Drive,
What is CMW’s record?
Pete, what kind of prosepcts? A, B, or C types?
Mitchell’s Eleven – thanks for the link.
Now if we can give Katt Hank Steinbrenner’s cell number – maybe he can convince him to pull the plug.
Two weeks ago I mounted a signed 8×10 of Hughes in my 4 year old’s room. I might have some explaining to do to my little guy if this goes down tonight. Hmm, how to explain a trade to a 4 year old…
This is ridiculous. I hope Hank and Cash pull out of talks at the deadline.
We’re doing the Twins a favor here. They’re the pathetic team owned by a billionaire who refuses to pay their own all stars.
The fact that they have been offered fair packages by both Yankees and Boston (yes, Boston is offering a fair package) is just maddening.
Pick a package and move on already. Otherwise enjoy the draft picks at the end of the year.
Johan will not waive his NTC during the season (it makes no sense to do that when he can negotiate and pick his own destination in a matter of months).
They have to deal him now. If the Yankees walk, I think Boston pulls Ellsbury out of the package. If they didn’t do that, they’d be dumb and they usually aren’t dumb. Just arrogant.
I posted this earlier and I will continue to do so. Haren is no better than our very own Wang. Away from his home stadium which is very spacious he is much worse as well. Haren isn’t the answer.
Haren’s W-L is irrelevant; there’s nothing he can do to improve the Oakland offense.
Steve,
That’s like telling a kid his best friend died.
Wang is actually 46-18 for his career.
Kids, Haren’s road ERA was 3.34 last year. That’s still awesome. Like Mike said, he’s a cheap, reliable alternative to the insanely expensive Santana and the injury prone Bedard. Sometimes the safe choice is the right choice.
Having two Wang’s in your rotation is hardly a bad thing. Who would you rather have Wang or Kennedy, Tabata, and Horne?
“Two weeks ago I mounted a signed 8×10 of Hughes in my 4 year old’s room.”
Hope your kid wasn’t in the room at the time.
G. Love,
Greenberg was refuted the rumors re: waiving the clause during the season and his preference to play for only 2 teams.
mel,
Wang’s record is 81 – 16, 3.74 Harren’s WHIP is 1.26,Wang’s is 1.29
If you were the Twins, wouldn’t you be doing all you could to maximize the return on trading Santana?
I don’t think Boston is posturing. If Santana could be gotten for one high end prospect, they’d do it for sure.
People are posting about Fukudome (mostly about his name). If it’s true that he wants a 3 year contract, that’d be perfect timing to let our youngsters develop. Is there any rumors out there about the Yanks talking to him (his agent)? (yes, that’s assuming our CF is in minny).
Guys, please stop with the Bedard and Kazmir fantasy. Baltimore and Tampa Bay are not going to trade their LH aces to the Yankees.
They will not trade their stars to their division rivals.
They can get the same kind of package from a lot of other teams for their guys and their fanbases would vomit if they shipped these type of players off to a team they play 19 times every season.
Focus on Johan, Haren types. Guys not in the AL East.
Baltimore will deal with the Mets as they have in the past, but not with the Yanks with players of this level.
This isn’t Jaret Wright for Private Pyle. Bedard is an all star.
Mike NYY,
I’d rather have a Santana and a Wang lol
Where does Fukudome play? He can play center but he`s best suited for right or left field
Mister Delaware – very classy. I love Hughes, but not THAT much. Now, as for Joba…
Okay, give me Kennedy,Tabata, and Horne all day and twice on Sundays.
Steve Howe You Doin: I feel like I was being too mature today. That was a layup; my apologies.
If you read a story on espn.com the A’s want two of the big three (joba, hughes, Kenndy) for Haren. They are being that strict becasue they don’t have to trade anyone. It is the same for the REd Sox two of the big three (Clay Elsbur and Lester). It also says that when the Santana thing is done and if the Angles land Cabera, they might unload everyone.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3138088
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3138748
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove07/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=3138769
Definitly worth some reads the first two are on Santana and the last is about top people that might get traded like Bedard and the As
Nick in SF
I stand corrected.Thanks!
I’d rather have a Santana and a Wang lol
How about this:
Wang, Haren and Hughes or a Wang, Santana, and Kennedy.
Where’s the bigger difference. Kennedy and Hughes or Haren and Santana?
Steve – my nine year old has a signed picture of Melky (the Manny catch) in her room. She was horrified to learn of the proposed trade. Both of my daughters swear they will become Twins fans if Melky goes. I’m a bit more upset about the Hughes end of the deal.
I cant spell
Mister Delaware,
Well played, but you forgot the rim shot.
How would Dan Haren be cheap? Ok, money wise, yes. But prospect-wise, it won’t be pretty. To grab him, you have to deal with Billy Beane, after all, who would enjoy the advantages of having more teams participating and being Billy Beane.
Anyone have a link or more information on why the Yanks dont pay luxury tax in 2008?
Haren is not in the same ballpark as Santana. The two are not comparable. It’s not even close.
Two Wangs don’t make it right.
Sorry, couldn’t resist. Wang is a Yankee and will be one for a while.
“Haren and Hughes or … Santana and Kennedy.”
We’re on the exact same page; I’ve been arguing this exact with friends non-stop. The gap between Santana and Haren isn’t as large as the gap between Hughes and Kennedy. Three of those guys are legit #1/#2 pitchers; Kennedy is a #3 type.
How would Dan Haren be cheap? Ok, money wise, yes. But prospect-wise, it won’t be pretty. To grab him, you have to deal with Billy Beane, after all, who would enjoy the advantages of having more teams participating and being Billy Beane.
No matter how cheap he won’t fetch Hughes.
They don’t pay luxury tax next year as a new stadium subsidy type thing from MLB.
They pay luxury tax and they dont pay revenue sharing as that money is going towards the new stadium.
Until Hughes and Kennedy pitch a few years we don’t know how large the gap is between them. We can only speculate. However we do know that Santana is the best pitcher in baseball and Haren is equivalent to Wang. Why is that so hard to comprehend?
Haren is not worth the cost in prospects to get him.
Steve:
Paying for the new stadium comes out of revenue, so they yanks will be paying out a ton and that comes out of their revenue, so they won’t have to pay nearly as much ($70 million last year) in the coming couple of years.
“What are Haren’s concerning peripherals from last season? Better than league average in K, BB and GB rate, a tiny tick better than league average better HR rate. His QERA (peripheral based ERA) was 3.61, better than Lackey and a lot of other very solid pitchers.”
Most of Haren’s success last year was based on his ridiculous first half.
Compare his WHIP and BABIP from the first half and the second. The first half of last season was an enormous anomaly in Haren’s career.
In his first 90 innings Haren had a BABIP of .205 and a WHIP of .87.
A BAPIP of .205 is freakishly low – and as you could expect it normalized. His WHIP finished at 1.2 – so if in his first 90 innings it was only 0.87 then that tells you how much worse he was the second half.
Haren’s season statistics last year are misleading becuase of their distibution. He regressed back to his expected performance over the second half of last season.
Haren is a good pitcher. He is not an ace. I would not overpay for him based on the partial performance he put up at the beginning of last year.
Like i said, hank is an idiot.
As much as I dislike Theo and co., man, have they been cooly quiet and professional throughout. I’d think Cash would be a bit embarrassed by Hank’s soapbox. I bet Cash gets some good-natured ribbing behind closed doors by other GMs, but I wonder how much it bothers him. He may have developed a callouse to it by now, after dealing with George.
Mister Delaware – I put “callouse” on a tee for you there. Fully expect you to drill that one down the fairway…let’s hear it.
Santana is a HOF pitcher. Haren is a pretty good pitcher.
The difference between them is a chasm compared to the crack that is the differece between Hughes and Kennedy.
And his 2nd half BABIP was freakishly high (.357 on B-Ref). So take an overperforming 1st half and an underperforming 2nd half and you still get a really strong season. I don’t expect the 3.07 ERA, but 3.50 at around $5.5MM per year is awesome.
If Hughes isn’t as good as Haren then I’ll never put any faith in the judging of prospects again. You don’t give up Hughes for Haren and thats what it would take to get him.
“I don’t expect the 3.07 ERA, but 3.50 at around $5.5MM per year is awesome.”
Like I said – Haren is a good pitcher. Not a great one. He will likely continue to pitch to his career performance which is worse than what he put up last year.
In no way is a good pitcher – one who pitches to an ERA of 3.5 worth Ian Kennedy/ Alan Horne/ and Tabata as was proposed.
Not even close.
They have Wang. They have Pettite. They are good to very good pitchers.
They don’t need another one especially if it costs them 3 of their top 5 prospects.
That’s what Kennedy/ Horne and Tabata – all top 5 organizational prospects.
Also a BAPIP of .357 is high but not nearly as extreme as the one he put up for the start of the season.
Remember, much of people’s perceptions of haren are based on the hot start he put up and the fact that he started the all star game. That start is what put him in the discussion for the Cy Young award.
When is the deadline? 12:01 AM?
If the Twins are not enamored with Melkey, would the substitution of Tabata as well as another minor leaguer do it for the Twins? Doubt it!
If Yankees pull out and the Red Sox pull Ellsbury out of the deal, sustituting Crisp and cash, will the Twins take that deal, or hold on to Santana?
Theo Epstein is a guitar playing doofus that craves to be in his gorilla suit at every opportunity.
Is Joe Girardi going to be at the Winter Meetings?
You klnow theirs a new thread right?
I can’t wait for tonight to see what happens. I really do hope though, that the Yankees stand by their “deadline”.
I think that you should all calm down. The Yankee rotation is really top-tier as it stands. Petitte, is money down the stretch. Wang, 38 wins in two seasons (most in MLB). Than the Big-Three. Joba, (no explanation needed). Hughes, who showed flashes of greatness in his first season up. Kennedy, who number-wise did better than Hughes. and Moose, who isn’t amazing but he’s a solid winner who can fill-in for guys in, God-Forbid, an injury. Pettite, ceased the Yankees desperation with his announcement. If we could get a quality starter with Wright, Clippard, DeSalvo and the likes, I’d be all for it, but we can’t. I would try to keep our young players, look how JETER, MO, POSADA, PETTITE, (sorta-not really) WANG, and most recently CANO have performed. Give them time, we’ll still be good this year.
CB: The Yankees can only use so many starting pitchers so why not cash a couple for a guy who is going to help out immediately. I agree that if Hughes is the cost of Haren, I’m out. I think it can be done with a package of our A-/B+ prospects which I’d consider worth it. Kennedy’s upside doesn’t equal to Haren’s present and Horne and Tabata are both too far out to solidly project. If one hits and one misses, I’d say it was worth it to upgrade the 2007 squad for what’s likely Pettitte’s last year. Also, and I know I’m getting repetitive, but Haren’s cost is a big factor. Its pretty feasible that, starting in 2009, we could have Haren and Sabathia under contract for a million or two more less than what Santana is asking for alone. That’s pretty nice.
As for the BABIP comments; he came in at .288 for the season. If you believe everyone should hit the average, he was 20 points lucky (AL avg. was .308). If you like the LD% + .120 method he was only 7 points lucky. I’m conceding he’ll regress a little next year, but a regression to a 3.50 ERA isn’t bad at all in my book (would have ranked 10th in the AL this season).
I’m not calling Haren the equivalent of Santana or suggesting he’ll outpitch him next year; I’m just saying if Beane will take a Hughes-less package, I think its the way to go. Keeping Hughes and picking up a guy a level down from Santana will go a lot further in setting up an elite 1-5 staff.
You have to feel for Brian Cashman. Just when it seemed that the Yankees were becoming what he envisioned and he was the voice of reason, along comes Hank. Cashman has to feel like a spare part these days. I know Hank’s the owner, but he makes me cringe with all his “I” instead of “We”.
Here’s a sad ending for a terrific kid.
“The Yankees announced today that they’ve signed backup catcher Jose Molina to a two-year contract. To make room on the 40-man roster for Molina, the Bombers designated first baseman Andy Phillips for assignment.”
So Joe Torre never went to any of these meetings—no wonder that he didn’t know the names of anyone not on the Big Team.
I’m glad Joe Girardi will be there – seems to me he has hit the ground running—and will be a hands on manager, not a bench snoozer.