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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Pettitte takes $16 million, adding to total

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Dec 03, 2007 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Just received an e-mail back from Randy Hendricks.

Andy Pettitte will play for his original $16 million next season. There are no options. He decided on Saturday, they talked it over on Sunday and now it’s done.

If you add it up, the Yankees have spent a ton of money this winter. A-Rod ($275 million), Rivera ($45 million), Posada ($52.4), Molina ($4 million), Abreu ($16 million) and now Pettitte ($16 million).

That’s $408.4 million not counting the $30 million Rodriguez could receive in bonus payments.

It’s not my money. But, damn, that’s a lot of scratch.

Alex’s deal is reportedly front-loaded at $32 million for the first three years. At the moment, I have their 2008 payroll at $200.6 million.

That assumes Cano and Wang would receive $4 million each. That $200.6 million figure accounts for only 16 players.

If they retain Vizcaino for $3 million and sign the other eight players for around the minimum, the Yankees are looking at a $207 million payroll.

Could they really add $20 million (at least) for Santana? That would involve increasing the payoll by nearly $50 million from last season.

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480 Responses to “Pettitte takes $16 million, adding to total”

  1. Matt December 3rd, 2007 at 2:42 pm

    That’s almost 4 times what the Twins’ payroll is…Crazy!

  2. Vertigo December 3rd, 2007 at 2:43 pm

    I think the Yanks can handle that payroll since they arent paying luxury tax.

  3. raymagnetic December 3rd, 2007 at 2:44 pm

    Haren vs. Santana

    Haren Age – 26 Santana Age – 28
    Haren Career Record – 49-44 Santana Career Record – 93-44
    Haren Career Whip – 1.243 Santana Career Whip – 1.094
    Haren Career ERA+ – 113 Santana Career ERA+ – 141
    Haren Career K’s – 606 Santana Career K’s – 1,381

    Need I go on? Isn’t it obvious that these two guys are not on the same level? Isn’t it also obvious that Haren is not the ACE pitcher everyone has been clamoring for on this blog? Truth is Haren is no better a pitcher than our very own Chien Ming Wang who mostly everyone here wants to get rid of for Johan Santana.

    I just can’t understand the fascination with that Haren guy. I really can’t. Wang who is a product of the Yankees farm system gets tore up in here because of two bad games and yet a majority of posters here want the Yankees to throw good prospects at Billy Beane for Haren. I really can’t understand it.

  4. MJL December 3rd, 2007 at 2:44 pm

    I can’t stand it when writers say things to the effect of “the Yankees have spent a ton of money this winter.” No, not really…they’ve committed to spending a lot of money in the future, but even that isn’t guaranteed to happen. Their payroll is still gonna be around $200 M next year, and the year after that. Just a pet peeve.

  5. Yankee Sean December 3rd, 2007 at 2:44 pm

    twins have the richest owner, but he doesnt put his money back in his team…im not saying spending in excess is good but he can be a little less tight with his money

  6. VTYankeesFan December 3rd, 2007 at 2:45 pm

    I am sure they could absorb it, because it is really only one year and then there is a ton of $$ dropping. My issue is, why do it? Pettitte coming back gives more stability to the rotation. Keep Hughes and develop the 3 kids to take over next year with Wang. Assuming that Pettitte and Mussina retire next off-season, there is then an open spot for Santana on the free agent market or Alan Horne if the 3 kids really develop in 2007 (which I think the will). I can’t stand trading kids for nearing prime/downsloping veterans.

  7. mel December 3rd, 2007 at 2:46 pm

    The stadium costs affect revenue sharing, not the luxury tax.

  8. whoa December 3rd, 2007 at 2:47 pm

    The Yankees can basically print money, but the amount they spend is obscene.

  9. Pags Fan (Nettles too) December 3rd, 2007 at 2:47 pm

    It’s not my money…

    BUT… in a way it is, I have a partial season package, I pay my fair share and then some…

    anyway -

    if Melky goes in the Santana deal, I would then get Andrew Jones off a bad year. Maybe a reasonable deal can be had – and he could shift to RF next year if AJax or one of the other kids is ready for CF…

    How’s this line-up:

    Damon
    Jeter
    Cano (bat him third!)
    A-Rod
    Abreu
    Andrew Jones
    Posada
    Matsui
    Shelly

    The Yankees are accused of buying the pennant anyway, so why not just go all all all out and go crazy?

    I’d rather spend 250 mil and win than 200 mil and fall short…

  10. ipo December 3rd, 2007 at 2:47 pm

    Pavano, Farnsworth, Giambi, Mussina, Pettitte, and Abreu all come off the books after 2008. And with Santana in the fold, the Yankees will have no need to pay out any mega free agent contracts for at least a couple of seasons.

    That is somewhere around 80 million coming off the books after 2008.

  11. pat December 3rd, 2007 at 2:48 pm

    If they trade for and then extend Santana, he will cost them 13 million for 2008.

    Also 2008-2009 are the years to spend because Yanks will be saving 60 and 100 million on revenue sharing money. That could also be the reason they front loaded A-Rod’s deal although I’d be shocked if some of the 32 million wasn’t deferred.

  12. jay destro December 3rd, 2007 at 2:48 pm

    i want to print santana’s money. please finish the deal

  13. Matt December 3rd, 2007 at 2:48 pm

    In a NYTs article I read that the Twins get about 20 million in revenue sharing, but they don’t use any of that for payroll…it goes right to Pohlad’s pocket…

  14. Kirk Herbstreit December 3rd, 2007 at 2:49 pm

    Can we stop it with the Santana-Free Agent NONSENSE?! He will not become a free agent next year–the team that trades for him will sign him to a long term extension. End of story.

  15. ipo December 3rd, 2007 at 2:49 pm

    Abreu must bat somewhere in the top 3. His OBP potential is much better than Cano’s.

  16. Russell NY December 3rd, 2007 at 2:49 pm

    Wow – never thought about how high that is. But you also have to think that dropping Pavano, Giambi, Pettitte, Mussina next year is going to open up a TON of payroll. They are just paying for guys now to fill those holes next season and further on.

  17. Scooter December 3rd, 2007 at 2:49 pm

    Pags Fan

    One possibility is that Jones will prefer a high-paying 1-year deal to rebuild his long-term value.

    If he has a great 2008, he shows that 2007 is an aberration, and he could sign next year for much more than Hunter got.

  18. migames December 3rd, 2007 at 2:49 pm

    “It’s not my money BUT… in a way it is”

    this is like saying that i own part of att because i pay my monthly payment each month.

  19. Yankee Sean December 3rd, 2007 at 2:50 pm

    personally, i want the team left as it is. i can invision the yankees winning it big a year or so down the road with the three kids. leave it as is and we’ll see what happens. just imagine if santana BECOMES a free agent after next year, we could pursue him then and STILL have joba, phil and IPK

  20. murphydog December 3rd, 2007 at 2:50 pm

    And about $60 mil comes off the books in 2009, with Giambi, Pavano and whoever else. Come on…. let’s not get our panties in a twist.

  21. fleas December 3rd, 2007 at 2:50 pm

    How do you pronounce this? *Kosuke Fukudome ..* ??? What a terrible name.

  22. sunny615 December 3rd, 2007 at 2:50 pm

    Hopefully, the Twins will get off their high horse and come to their senses and make a deal already… it’s getting to the point where Smith is becoming foolish.

  23. Paulie December 3rd, 2007 at 2:50 pm

    That’s a crap load of money, but that’s the price one pays to have some of the greatest Yankees remain in pinstripes.

  24. murphydog December 3rd, 2007 at 2:51 pm

    ipo:

    I like your numbers better than mine.

  25. sunny615 December 3rd, 2007 at 2:51 pm

    put a couple of hyphens in his last name and you’ve got trouble.

  26. scottc December 3rd, 2007 at 2:51 pm

    Isnt revenue sharing and the luxury tax the same thing? Or else this may be the first time I feel like a baseball idiot.

  27. mommy December 3rd, 2007 at 2:51 pm

    Seems like a lot of the kids we brought up last year may have a decent future if they are given time. Karstens did well this winter and shows promise. Clippard, Wright, there are definitely some prospects to consider down the road. I think we’re looking at decent pitching for years to come. And if you’ve got the money, why not use it. Adding Santana to the mix just makes it an even better future.

  28. $ $ $ $ December 3rd, 2007 at 2:52 pm

    The first rule of economics. If you have to ask the price, you can’t afford it.

  29. Doreen December 3rd, 2007 at 2:52 pm

    Fleas -

    That will depend on whether he’s done well that day or not!

  30. fleas December 3rd, 2007 at 2:53 pm

    Doreen:

    haha!

  31. Mitchell's Eleven December 3rd, 2007 at 2:53 pm

    at least a whole chunk of that comes off the books at the end of the year…..

  32. ~Adam. December 3rd, 2007 at 2:53 pm

    Pags Fan- I disagree, no way I bat Cano 3.

    Damon, Jeter, Abreu … are on base machines they’re all capable of being leadoff guys and the all are capable of being 3 hole hitters too. Abreu is so valuable in the 3 hole with his OBP. No Abreu- then yes I’d put Cano in the 3 hole.

    Who knows? Is there any guarantee Girardi plays the lineup the same way Torre did?

    What does everyone think?

  33. murphydog December 3rd, 2007 at 2:54 pm

    How do you pronounce this? *Kosuke Fukudome ..* ???

    Forget that, think nickname:

    A-Rod, K-rod, Dice-K, K-Fuk? Oh wait, that’s not going to work is it?

  34. yanks26ngoin December 3rd, 2007 at 2:54 pm

    Thank you god, we got Pettitte back!!! Maybe Hank will now lessen the Sanatana offer and put in Kennedy or just take the offer off the table all together. That would make my day, as I really dont want Johan.

  35. raymagnetic December 3rd, 2007 at 2:54 pm

    Who cares how much money the Yankees spend? Everything cost more in NYC. Try renting a 1BR apt. in Manhattan for $1700 a month and then you’ll get the picture.

  36. pat December 3rd, 2007 at 2:54 pm

    scottc

    Not the same thing. Luxury Tax is only paid by teams who go over the salary limit. Revenue sharing is what all teams pay to off set lower revenues to smaller market teams.

  37. pieces December 3rd, 2007 at 2:55 pm

    “Fukudome”

    You can sort of break that into 4 smaller words. First 3 letters, next one letter, next two letters, last two letters are the 4 words. This guy would be great to combo with Wang. Too bad Small and Big Unit are gone.

  38. Artie A December 3rd, 2007 at 2:55 pm

    Okay my first wish has been answered with Andy resigning. So huge. I think now more than ever we need to give up only one of the top arms here. Hughes and then maybe Ohlendorf with Melky would be accpetable. I like where Hank is coming from. We are giving the Twins a starting centerfielder and a starting pitcher with upside to at least Sanatana. Add in another prospect and i think this is a good deal for the Twins. Its a good deal the the Yanks. The Twins should make this deal with the Yanks. The back end of our rotation would be Chamberlin and Kennedy or Mussina. We need an eight inning bullpen answer eith Visciano or Mahey. Somebody like that. The best of all worlds inmy vie would be that bthe deal would fall through for both the yanks and the sox, Sanatana stays with the Twins and we get an Eric Badard from Baltimore without having to give up Melky or Hughes.

  39. gayle December 3rd, 2007 at 2:55 pm

    Scott C I may be there with you. I believe they are different. Revenue sharing comes from things like tickets sold, merchandise that all goes into sharing. The luxary tax is the tax you pay of your payroll exceeds the amount that was negotiated in the collective barganing agreement. I read it last night what the exact amount was but I forget.

  40. Andrew December 3rd, 2007 at 2:55 pm

    raymagnetic,

    You’ve got some interesting stats, but look at last years stats instead of the career numbers.

    Haren 222.2 IP, 76 ER, 3.07 ERA, 192 SO, 24 HR, 55 BB, 1.21 WHIP
    Santana 219.0 IP, 81 ER, 3.33 ERA, 235 SO, 33 HR, 52 BB, 1.07 WHIP

    Those numbers are pretty close. Also, Win/Loss stats are the most irrelevant pitching stats, but if you want to bring that up, Haren was 15-9 versus Santana’s 15-13.

  41. murphydog December 3rd, 2007 at 2:55 pm

    raymagnetic:

    1700 a month? Wow, you must have rent control….

  42. fleas December 3rd, 2007 at 2:57 pm

    pieces.. hysterical!

  43. sunny615 December 3rd, 2007 at 2:57 pm

    Artie A-

    According to reports, McPhail of the O’s wants a starting package of 4 top prospects to start talking about Bedard. Not 1. Not 2. 4. Don’t think anyone’s getting Bedard anytime soon.

  44. Dan December 3rd, 2007 at 2:58 pm

    I wonder if the Yankees contractual obligations will deter them from pursuing Rowand or Jones…

  45. bphill December 3rd, 2007 at 2:59 pm

    well I am glad that Andy is back…And as long as we can play the players, I don’t care how much the payroll is.

  46. Yankee Sean December 3rd, 2007 at 3:00 pm

    if the yankees dont get santana, theyre not laying down or dying…they already spent a lot

  47. IRS December 3rd, 2007 at 3:00 pm

    2008 salaries for those players:

    Pavano – 11 million

    Pettitte – 16 million

    Mussina – 11 million

    Farnsworth – 5.5 million

    Giambi – 21 million

    Abreu – 16 million

    I think it is a sfe bet that they will all be gone after 2008 with the exception of Abreu. That adds up to either 64.5 or 80.5 million, depending on whether or not they pursue Abreu as a free agent or extend him during the season, or dump him after 2008.

  48. NYYankeeFan December 3rd, 2007 at 3:01 pm

    Peter,

    If the Yanks spent, as you put it, $408.4M this year, does that mean it won’t be included in the team’s annual salary figures from this point forward? Or will it, and does that mean that the team will eventually spend an extra $816.8M – counting these new salaries twice???

    I’m trying to understand your math.

  49. Alex December 3rd, 2007 at 3:02 pm

    Assuming we get Johan, wouldn’t we only pay the $13M or so he’s earned this year. Next year, Moose and Giambi’s contracts come off the books. Maybe his raise wouldn’t hurt the payroll as much as we think?

  50. The Fallen Phoenix December 3rd, 2007 at 3:02 pm

    I’m of the opinion that if the Yankees miss on Johan Santana, they either stand pat, or politely inquire into other options. It seems, to me, that Johan Santana is the only pitcher the Yankees are willing to give Hughes up for, and that will necessarily prevent them from making any other deals, in my opinion, whether Haren or someone else.

    Besides, as good as Haren is, and as great as that contract is, he’s not all *that* young, he’s not a lefty, and he’s just not in the same class as Santana, though he *is* one Helluva pitcher. It just doesn’t make sense to push hard for Haren, when the Yankees have several pitching options who favorably project to be about as good as Haren is now.

    Of course there’s the usual bit about prospects not panning out, etc., but dealing for Haren seems Mid-Risk, Mid-Reward (at best), while holding on to the prospects the Yankees already have is essentially Mid-Risk (at worst), High-Reward (at best). And I only really say Mid-Risk because of the opportunity cost of not including these pitchers in a deal, where at least two of them (Chamberlain and Kennedy) are likely at the height of their value. Hughes’ value took a hit because of the injury; without it, or Chamberlain’s explosive MLB debut, I’d have to imagine he’d be just as untouchable as Chamberlain and Cano to the Yankees, even in the Santana talks.

  51. Guga December 3rd, 2007 at 3:03 pm

    Who Cares?

  52. IRS December 3rd, 2007 at 3:03 pm

    There isn’t much argument about who the better pitcher is. Santana is much better than Haren.

    Check out this insane stat:

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/shareit/Eatx

    Johan is #5 on that list and in some amazing company. He will go down as an all-time great. Right now, haren is “only” a really good pitcher. But Santana is unlike any other pitcher in MLB today.

  53. raymagnetic December 3rd, 2007 at 3:03 pm

    raymagnetic,

    You’ve got some interesting stats, but look at last years stats instead of the career numbers.

    Let’s see Haren do it again and then you might have an argument for me.

    Your logic is the same logic that scored the Yankees Carl Pavano and we all know how well that went.

  54. fleas December 3rd, 2007 at 3:04 pm

    Giambi and Pavano were seen at a birthday party together.. both with their doctors on hand in case they get hurt.

    I can’t wait until they are both gone! Giambi without steroids is far worse than Popeye without spinach!

  55. raymagnetic December 3rd, 2007 at 3:04 pm

    Murphydog, I don’t pay that much rent but I know people who do.

  56. gayle December 3rd, 2007 at 3:04 pm

    NYYankeesfan–

    that 408 number is the total value of the contracts not the amount to be paid this year. Example Posada’s conteact is for 52.4 over 4 years.

    As stated before the reason many of these are front loaded is so that they can be valued against the break the Yanks get for building a stadium and the resulting break they will take on the luxary tax.

  57. mel December 3rd, 2007 at 3:04 pm

    Ko-sue-ke (as in kept) Foo-ku-dough-me (as in metal)

    Accent on Ko and Dough.

  58. Yankee Sean December 3rd, 2007 at 3:05 pm

    right, santana IS a much better pitcher than haren, plus santana is a lefty

    and haren (27) is only a few years younger than johan

  59. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") December 3rd, 2007 at 3:05 pm

    How do you pronounce this? *Kosuke Fukudome ..* ???

    Forget that, think nickname:

    A-Rod, K-rod, Dice-K, K-Fuk? Oh wait, that’s not going to work is it?

    I really, truely hope it’s pronounced the way I think it is :D

  60. hmmm December 3rd, 2007 at 3:05 pm

    i’m expecting this trade finished by the end of the day. Hughes is too much for the Twins to pass up.

  61. IRS December 3rd, 2007 at 3:05 pm

    That link refers to a stat called ERA+, which measures how good a pitcher is at ERA relative to the league he pitches in, and it is adjusted for the ballpark he pitches in. An ERA+ of 100 is average. An ERA+ of 108 means you are 8 percent better than average, etc. So Santana is insane. And you can see just how dominant Pedro was.

  62. Pags Fan (Nettles too) December 3rd, 2007 at 3:06 pm

    Actually there’s a great book published by Baseball Prospectus (Baseball Between the Numbers), and plenty of Stat sites and articles that state that line-up composition matters very little over the course of a full season (for the most part).

    That being said,

    I’ll agree with the writers above and put Abreu 3rd, I just like the “on-base-machine” also in the middle of the order… Would anyone bat Cano 5th? I like the left/right/left/right balance of the line-up above…

    The bigger question is: One year, or possibly more, if Melky goes, should the Yankees put caution to the wind and go after Andrew Jones?

    Again, I say, spend, spend, spend. If they win paying $200 they’ll be accused of buying the pennant – so, if that’s the case, put the best guys out there…

  63. Pags Fan (Nettles too) December 3rd, 2007 at 3:06 pm

    Actually there’s a great book published by Baseball Prospectus (Baseball Between the Numbers), and plenty of Stat sites and articles that state that line-up composition matters very little over the course of a full season (for the most part).

    That being said,

    I’ll agree with the writers above and put Abreu 3rd, I just like the “on-base-machine” also in the middle of the order… Would anyone bat Cano 5th? I like the left/right/left/right balance of the line-up above…

    The bigger question is: One year, or possibly more, if Melky goes, should the Yankees put caution to the wind and go after Andrew Jones?

    Again, I say, spend, spend, spend. If they win paying $200 they’ll be accused of buying the pennant – so, if that’s the case, put the best guys out there…

  64. Mike NYY- Save the Big Three December 3rd, 2007 at 3:06 pm

    I really, truely hope it’s pronounced the way I think it is

    Sorry to dissapoit you but no

  65. scottc December 3rd, 2007 at 3:07 pm

    So how to they figure how much yanks pay each year in revenue sharing. Doesn everyone pay a certain percentage?

  66. Seymour December 3rd, 2007 at 3:07 pm

    It’s pronounced – FO-KOO-DA-MEE

  67. mel December 3rd, 2007 at 3:07 pm

    Japanese vowels are similar to Spanish vowels.

    Kosuke Fukudome is a beautiful name when it’s not butchered by ESPN.

  68. Yankee Sean December 3rd, 2007 at 3:07 pm

    i hope we dont have to go after andruw jones…for lack of better words…he sucks

  69. S.o.S.27 December 3rd, 2007 at 3:08 pm

    Yanks need to inquire about Harden rather than Haren.He would come cheaper and when healthy(i know its a rare occasion)an ace.

  70. Shamus December 3rd, 2007 at 3:09 pm

    ipo
    December 3rd, 2007 at 2:47 pm
    Pavano, Farnsworth, Giambi, Mussina, Pettitte, and Abreu all come off the books after 2008. And with Santana in the fold, the Yankees will have no need to pay out any mega free agent contracts for at least a couple of seasons.

    That is somewhere around 80 million coming off the books after 2008.

    You forget that Big Tex Mark Teixiera and CC Sabathia could both possibly be free agents after this year…

    hmmmm….. Epsecially with all the extra $$$ lying around

  71. IRS December 3rd, 2007 at 3:10 pm

    Andruw doesn’t suck. If the Yankees can get him for one year than it would be worth it. But if he is looking for the long-term megacontract then the yankees should pass.

  72. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") December 3rd, 2007 at 3:10 pm

    could you imagine ESPN messing that name up live :D

  73. Mike NYY- Save the Big Three December 3rd, 2007 at 3:10 pm

    No Harden please. Joe Blanton though I would consider

  74. Mitchell's Eleven December 3rd, 2007 at 3:11 pm

    raymagnetic: you care about how much the Yankees spend when teams spending half of what they do go farther in the playoffs.

  75. gayle December 3rd, 2007 at 3:11 pm

    Scott although this article was published last year it gives you a pretty good understanding

    http://www.forbes.com/2006/04/.....ports.html

    Also I looked it up last night if you got the the mlbpa homepage and then take a look at the basic agreement down around page 170 i think it was it tells you what the luxary tax threshold is for thenext couple of years for payroll and what your payroll has to be to be required to pay luxary tax

  76. fleas December 3rd, 2007 at 3:11 pm

    “The Twins, expected to resume discussions with the Yankees and Red Sox about left-hander Johan Santana on Monday, are considering filing tampering charges against the Yankees because of Hank Steinbrenner’s public comments about the pitcher, according to a major-league source. Meanwhile, the Twins also are discussing trades involving closer Joe Nathan, with the Astros being one possible suitor.”

    Twins, are not happy .. this has the potential postpone all deals indefinitely! Not to mention stick it to the Yankees as a result.

    I love Hughes, but Santa (Santana) is a no-brainer!!

  77. S.o.S.27 December 3rd, 2007 at 3:12 pm

    If not Harden,Sheets.Its worth the risk.

  78. IRS December 3rd, 2007 at 3:12 pm

    I think with Santana around we don’t need Sabathia. But Teixeira solves all of our first base problems. How sick would that lineup be in 2009? And Atlanta and Cleveland will likely be in contention this year so chances are they will not sell Mark Tex or Sabathia by the deadline, and so both players will probably make it to the free agent market. I think Mark Teixeira would be a great signing if they feel like chasing a free agent next offseason. If we don’t get Santana, they we might need to go after a pitcher instead.

  79. scottc December 3rd, 2007 at 3:13 pm

    Thank you Gayle:)

  80. mel December 3rd, 2007 at 3:13 pm

    Brandon,

    Someone asked how to pronounce it in a baseball chat. The analyst almost had it right, but the last two syllable he said “dah-me” which is a scolding word in Japanese.

  81. Bill December 3rd, 2007 at 3:13 pm

    SOME NEW NEWS..

    THE TWINS ARE CONSIDERING FILING TAMPERING CHARGES AGAINST US BECAUSE OF WHAT HANK SAID LAST NIGHT…

    GOOD MOVE HANK

  82. gargoyle December 3rd, 2007 at 3:14 pm

    The payroll is embarrassing.

  83. Yankee Sean December 3rd, 2007 at 3:14 pm

    first off, he IS going to look for a long term contract. second, he DOES suck, look at his stats from last year. as much as i want to sign a .220 player to a 3 year deal (thats what he’ll ask for)…

  84. Martini6196 December 3rd, 2007 at 3:15 pm

    A guy on the NYYFANS message board (who is actually a Red Sox fan) just said his contact at Goldman Sachs expects a deal between the Yankees and Twins to be announced tonight.

    This is the same guy who learned about Arod’s deal because his friend works at Goldman Sachs. Take it for what it’s worth. I just thought I would let you guys know what I read over there.

  85. Hughes... December 3rd, 2007 at 3:15 pm

    The Yankees have 107.5 million dollars coming off the books in the next 2 years.

    About 80 million of it after this year.

    Giambi will probably be replaced by Teixeira if he hits FA and should get a similar contract ~20M.

    If the entire OF is filled with cheap players (Melky, Gardner, AJax, Tabata, Duncan), then the Yankees could easily sign Santana and Teixeira and be under the luxury tax

    I’d be happy if the payroll was lowered to about 125 million.

  86. Bill December 3rd, 2007 at 3:16 pm

    Good Move Hank…

    Get us in trouble with Tampering charges…

  87. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") December 3rd, 2007 at 3:16 pm

    SOME NEW NEWS..

    THE TWINS ARE CONSIDERING FILING TAMPERING CHARGES AGAINST US BECAUSE OF WHAT HANK SAID LAST NIGHT…

    GOOD MOVE HANK

    LIKE I GIVE A DAMN

  88. scottc December 3rd, 2007 at 3:16 pm

    Wow! Yanks paid 71 million in revenue sharing last year!

  89. minnysota December 3rd, 2007 at 3:16 pm

    twins talking to the astros about joe nathan

    i dont think they would be discussing nathan if they didnt think they were going to accept a trde.

    so yea… from a minnesota fan perspective

    i think johan to the yanks

  90. mel December 3rd, 2007 at 3:17 pm

    Are tampering charges going to be brought on Jorge and Mariano?

    In the NBA you get a $25K fine for saying “X is a nice player” (just ask Phil Jackson, who btw can afford it. $12M per!)

  91. raymagnetic December 3rd, 2007 at 3:17 pm

    raymagnetic: you care about how much the Yankees spend when teams spending half of what they do go farther in the playoffs.

    I actually do not care. If the Yankees spent half a billion dollars on payroll it wouldn’t bother me in the least.

    Believe me, the other owners don’t care either. The Yankees are giving away a ton of money to baseball.

    Nobody cares kid, nobody cares.

  92. Uncle Vito December 3rd, 2007 at 3:18 pm

    http://www.covers.com/postingf.....7&t=0

    well that seals it…Yankees are the ODDS ON Favorites to get Santana

    LOL

    :-)

  93. migames December 3rd, 2007 at 3:18 pm

    i hope hanks mouth doesnt cost us a pick…doubt it will

  94. Blargh December 3rd, 2007 at 3:18 pm

    Mmm, using the pronunciation key at dictionary.com, Kousuke Fukudome’s name would be pronounced:
    Koh(long)-soo-kay Foo-koo-doh(short)-mey

    I hope that your comment wasn’t serious; but a pet peeve of mine is people bashing names when they know nothing about the name’s native language and judge them based on their own convoluted, inconsistent language (why hello there, English).

  95. S.o.S.27 December 3rd, 2007 at 3:18 pm

    Screw the twins!!! They have been playing us for a week now. Not saying they are the only team to ever do that. Im tired of teams going to Boston to up the price when what we offer is plenty. Time to end this madness. Teams offer less and land these players,when our package was far better.

    There is a new sherriff in town and he aint taken $HIT from no one.

    I support Hank as long as he doesnt cost us draft picks or get us blackballed.

  96. scottc December 3rd, 2007 at 3:19 pm

    Bill- Where did you read that.

  97. EY December 3rd, 2007 at 3:20 pm

    Basically, Japanese follows the a-i-u-e-o vowels and adds beginning consonants to them, where a is “ah”, i is “ee”, u is “oo”, e is “eh”, o is “oh”

    So Kousuke Fukudome is pronounced like this:
    Kou-su-ke

    Kou: “Koh” – the u extends the “oh” sound.
    Su, “Soo”, short oo sound
    Ke, “Keh”

    Fu-ku-do-me
    Fu, “Foo”, short oo sound
    Ku, “Koo”, short oo sound
    Do “Doh”
    Me “Meh”

    Totally unrelated to baseball of course

  98. On D Ball December 3rd, 2007 at 3:20 pm

    Pete,

    I’m doing my best to save them money. But you got to help.

    Get a hold of Stein and tell him that a rich Santana with a long term contract would not be the same pitcher that he used to be.

    It would be a lot of fun to see a half dozen of those lean and hungry rookies battle it out.

  99. Nick in SF December 3rd, 2007 at 3:20 pm

    Twins considering filing tampering charges = please upgrade the quality of the third player after Hughes and Melky? What a farce.

    How about we give them Pavano as our punishment and pay 3/4 of his salary? I’m sure he’d put them over the top with a miraculous September comeback.

  100. Annie Savoy December 3rd, 2007 at 3:20 pm

    Did you think I was kidding when I said the only trade for Santana should be ARod? It’s easy to replace a third baseman who has held up the Yankee payroll like a bank robber.

    Phillip Hughes and Melky Cabrera are Yankee team players who have proved their worth.

    Arod has not.

  101. Blargh December 3rd, 2007 at 3:22 pm

    EY: Think of it as helping fellow Yankees fans with more general knowledge, thereby increasing the pride we can take in as a Yankee fan :)
    Anybody keep track what topics this blog can teach? xP

  102. Jeremy December 3rd, 2007 at 3:22 pm

    Could they really add $20 million (at least) for Santana? That would involve increasing the payoll by nearly $50 million from last season.

    YES. 1. santana gets 13.25 million this year. 2. Next year, when the 25 million price tag kicks in, where do the yankees get 25 million from? Jason Giambi’s expiring contract.

  103. Todd December 3rd, 2007 at 3:22 pm

    “I’d be happy if the payroll was lowered to about 125 million.”

    Why? Are you concerned about how much profit the Steinbrenners are taking in? The money either goes into salaries or into their pockets … and I don’t care about Hank’s pockets.

  104. migames December 3rd, 2007 at 3:22 pm

    “Phillip Hughes and Melky Cabrera are Yankee team players who have proved their worth.

    Arod has not.”

    ….ok….i dont know how you can prove this…dont bring up the fact that melky gets his uniform dirty.

  105. fleas December 3rd, 2007 at 3:22 pm

    Annie Savoy, Laughable … your post doesn’t even warrant a comment.

  106. Jason R December 3rd, 2007 at 3:24 pm

    Any Yankee fan who says “I don’t want Johan” is either delusional or a liar. We all want him, but we want him at OUR price. Just correcting an annoyance of mine.

  107. IRS December 3rd, 2007 at 3:24 pm

    You’re right that Andruw will be looking for a long-term contract, so I agree the yankees should stay away from him.

    But he does not suck. He had a really bad year last year. But prior to that he has posted OBP’s of .363, .347, and .345 with lots of power and stellar defense. He’s be a good one-year stop gap if melky is gone, but beyond that it wouldn’t be good to add him.

  108. minnysota December 3rd, 2007 at 3:25 pm

    hahaha

    johan is going to pitch 300+ innings this year if we dont get what we want.. dammit.. cano/hughes/melky..
    hahahaha

  109. IRS December 3rd, 2007 at 3:25 pm

    ARod has 2 MVP’s and the Yankees clearly don’t make the postseason without him in 2005 and 2007. How is that not a team player. He carried the team last year for the first half of the season. What a short memory.

  110. EY December 3rd, 2007 at 3:25 pm

    Blargh:

    Blargh, haha, glad to help.

  111. VOIII December 3rd, 2007 at 3:26 pm

    There is no way that the Twins will win a tampering case here. Hank has simply stated the obvious. The Yankees and Twins are in the middle of intense negotiations regarding Santana. He obviously wants santana if he has offered his best prospect and starting center fielder. He has not sent any cryptic message to Johan. The Twins have made it known that they are trying to deal Santana and are negotiating with the Yankees and the Redsox. There is no-way Hank’s statements would have an effect on where Johan goes, unless the Twins got their panties in a bunch and walked away from the Yankees/

  112. sunny615 December 3rd, 2007 at 3:26 pm

    If the Dodgers didn’t file tampering charges against the Sox for the Nancy Drew issue, the Twins probably won’t either considering all Hank did was open his mouth. The Dodgers had much more to go on than the Twins. You don’t permanently sour trade partners over yapping. This is more than likely an attempt by the Twins to try to muscle Hank into a more pliable negotiating stance.

  113. hmmm December 3rd, 2007 at 3:28 pm

    “Phillip Hughes and Melky Cabrera are Yankee team players who have proved their worth.

    Arod has not.”

    ladies and gentlemen, the dumbest post in the history of lohud.

  114. raymagnetic December 3rd, 2007 at 3:28 pm

    Any Yankee fan who says “I don’t want Johan” is either delusional or a liar. We all want him, but we want him at OUR price. Just correcting an annoyance of mine

    Trust me, there are a ton of posters on this board who do not want Johan on the team THIS year.

    Think about how many posters didn’t want AROD in pinstripes ever again.

    Oh the horror, the Yankees might have the best pitcher in baseball to go along with the best player in baseball.

    Baseball Gods why are you so cruel to us Yankees fans?!?!?!

  115. scottc December 3rd, 2007 at 3:29 pm

    You r not getting Cano.. keep dreamin minnysota

  116. Catherine December 3rd, 2007 at 3:29 pm

    Arod carried the Yankees to the playoffs this past season

  117. mel December 3rd, 2007 at 3:29 pm

    For Japanese name each syllable is distinct.

    ‘a’ and ‘e’ are short
    ‘i’ is the long ‘e’ in English
    ‘o’ and ‘u’ are long

    ‘ei’ is the long ‘a’ in English. Thus Kei is pronounced ‘Kay’ lol.

    ‘ai’ is the long ‘i’ in English. Thus the first syllable in Daisuke is Dice.

    Japanese people don’t have middle names and like other Asian countries, the last name comes before the first name.

    I’m sure fleas was making a joke, but since we have Japanese players on the team it’s somewhat relevant. lol.

  118. Stev-o December 3rd, 2007 at 3:29 pm

    When is the Twinkees deadline today? Can we call their bluff (+ the Sawx) and focus on the bullpen and other avail starters? Gotta think Johan knows the bidding will be even greater next year when teams don’t have to part w their future to get him. Prob get him $25mil+

  119. Mike NYY- Save the Big Three December 3rd, 2007 at 3:29 pm

    ladies and gentlemen, the dumbest post in the history of lohud.

    No Way, watch this:

    TOny Womack is better than A-Rod. Who has a championship?

  120. IRS December 3rd, 2007 at 3:30 pm

    LOL @ raymagnetic.

    I want a team full of crappy players!!! Quick someone trade for Juan Pieree and Gary Matthews!

  121. Mike December 3rd, 2007 at 3:30 pm

    I wonder when this crap is going to get decided. Cant wait to see Santana suited up in a red sox uni or giving up bombs in the pinstripes while the rest of mlb including minny continue to roll over versus the red sox.

    by the way, yankees last 6 championship runs on DVD. Check it out at http://www.sell.com/2389VV

    Tiger woods fans can get many rounds of golf too!!!!!

  122. hmmm December 3rd, 2007 at 3:30 pm

    guys, this is all just part of the slow dance.

    in the end, the yankees are getting santana. the twins are just posturing to try to get more.

  123. Mike NYY- Save the Big Three December 3rd, 2007 at 3:30 pm

    We`re hours away from the Santana deadline and Mike and the Maddog are talking about the Saints

  124. IRS December 3rd, 2007 at 3:31 pm

    Haha Tony Womack. I forgot about that guy.

    I think Bubba Crosby is finally a free agent. Maybe we can get him to replace Melky…just kidding, of course.

  125. Phil December 3rd, 2007 at 3:31 pm

    Hmmmm: about six months ago, the dumbest post ever was made. It is from memory, and not word for word:

    The poster was T-Sox.

    The post was:
    “I would absolutely trade Jeter for Bret Boone. We need Bret’s glove and arm at SS.”

  126. minnysota December 3rd, 2007 at 3:32 pm

    BREAKING NEWS

    TWINS AND MARINERS HAVE COME TO AN AGREEMENT IN REGARDS TO TWINS PITCHER JOHAN SANTANA

  127. new-ish girl December 3rd, 2007 at 3:32 pm

    RE tampering issue: That’s just Hank being Hank…

  128. minnysota December 3rd, 2007 at 3:33 pm

    THE AGREEMENT IS THAT THE MARINERS DO NOT HAVE THE PIECES THE TWINS ARE LOOKING FOR

    Thanks..
    haha
    this whole trade talk is fun!

  129. VOIII December 3rd, 2007 at 3:33 pm

    Andruw Jones is a nice option for the Yankees, even if they have to give him say 4 years. Tabata and Jackson can play the corners until Jones contract expires or the Yankees can trade Jones when the kids are ready. He would still have some value if he returns to form. Buy low sell high….The guy can still play the hell out of CF and give the Yankees some power. This is only if they trade Melky of course.

  130. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") December 3rd, 2007 at 3:34 pm

    minnysota sure sucks at bogus trades :(

  131. Mike R. December 3rd, 2007 at 3:34 pm

    Breaking news:

    Minnysota thinks lohud visitors are idiots.

  132. mel December 3rd, 2007 at 3:34 pm

    • It seems more and more likely that Erik Bedard will get dealt. Suitors are lining up for the ace left-hander.

    source: espn.com winter meetings blog.

  133. sunny615 December 3rd, 2007 at 3:34 pm

    minnysota
    December 3rd, 2007 at 3:32 pm
    BREAKING NEWS

    TWINS AND MARINERS HAVE COME TO AN AGREEMENT IN REGARDS TO TWINS PITCHER JOHAN SANTANA
    ————

    Yeah – they both agree they can’t afford him.

  134. Phil December 3rd, 2007 at 3:35 pm

    Andruw Jones range factor and arm have deteriorated significantly. He hasn’t played “the hell out of CF” since 2001.

  135. Catherine December 3rd, 2007 at 3:35 pm

    I wouldnt let Jones play CF for 4 games neverless 4 years!

  136. IRS December 3rd, 2007 at 3:35 pm

    If the Yankees have to replace Melky with a long-term contract, I’d definitely take Andruw over Rowand. Plus Rowand would cost them a first round draft pick and Andruw would not since he had such a crappy year. Oh and Andruw’s better too.

  137. Yankee Trader December 3rd, 2007 at 3:35 pm

    Can someone tell me on what grounds the Twins can file tampering charges against the Yankees, based on the comments by Boss Jr.

    Pettitte is the epitome of a true Yankee and is a class act. For him to announce now at the start of the winter meetings that he wants to come back to the Yankees, allows the team to make the best decisions on their starting and relief pitching for next year.

    No to Andruw Jones. Great arm and defender, but his bat speed is declining and his weight has been an issue, and he’s a strikeout machine with a low BA. Plus the Dodgers are talking two years. He won’t sign for one year, unless he fires Boras.

    If Cabrera goes, do not favor Damon back in center. Would prefer a stop gap measure with a good defensive player with a decent bat, preferably righty, who would play until Austin “Action” Jackson is ready.

    Feelers out for Bedard. Orioles have the money to sign him and would be crazy to trade him, but I admit, he’s pitched very well against the Red Sox, and at Fenway!

    Kazmir also- The only way he goes is if Tampa Bay can’t afford him.

    At this point, Santana should go the Yankees if the Twins want the best deal. Hate for Hughes to go, as he should be a consistent winner with a perfect makeup for NY. If Santana stays put or goes to the Red Sox, would Ian Kennedy, Alan Horne, and another non pitching prospect do it for Dan Haren??

  138. Mike NYY- Save the Big Three December 3rd, 2007 at 3:35 pm

    I think Bubba Crosby is finally a free agent.

    I distincly remember the first game I saw him play. He was somehing like 4-4 with a bunt hit and a few stolen bases. I thought he was the greatest player ever.

    He adds speed to the team and he has incredible range in center. THe 5 tools are power, speed, fielding, arm, contact, and intangibles right?

    Well A-Rod has Bubba in power. I`ll give him that. And he has better contact but Bubba has a better arm and WAY better range and its not even close in intangubles. so Bubba win 3-2 over A-Rod.

  139. yankee21 December 3rd, 2007 at 3:35 pm

    Until someone offical in the Twins organization states they will file “tampering charges” and the basis for it then this whole rumour or leak or speculation or media comment is irrelevant. Until this happens it is just mere BS.

    Forget it and move on sports fans. I’m sure the Yankees organization will.

  140. migames December 3rd, 2007 at 3:36 pm

    “It seems more and more likely that Erik Bedard will get dealt. Suitors are lining up for the ace left-hander.

    source: espn.com winter meetings blog.”

    Actual Source: Steve “im the biggest loser of them all” philips

  141. IRS December 3rd, 2007 at 3:36 pm

    The orioles are idiots if they let Bedard go. He’s already one of the best starters in baseball. Just think of how good he might be in a few years. They should lock him up, they can afford him.

  142. Mike NYY- Save the Big Three December 3rd, 2007 at 3:37 pm

    Can we get Bedard without giving up Hughes?

  143. Jake December 3rd, 2007 at 3:37 pm

    minnysota,

    I love how you amuse yourself…so much enthusiasm in your posts.

    twins fans got all bent out of shape because i was posting my opinion…just my opinion…on one of their sites.

    i welcome twins fans on this site, gives a better overall perspective.

  144. jay destro December 3rd, 2007 at 3:38 pm

    When is this “spam” gonna stop?

    Mike December 3rd, 2007 at 3:30 pm

    I wonder when this crap is going to get decided. Cant wait to see Santana suited up in a red sox uni or giving up bombs in the pinstripes while the rest of mlb including minny continue to roll over versus the red sox.

    by the way, yankees last 6 championship runs on DVD. Check it out at http://www.sell.com/2389VV

    Tiger woods fans can get many rounds of golf too!!!!!

  145. Mike NYY- Save the Big Three December 3rd, 2007 at 3:38 pm

    Bedard isn’t signing an extension and after last year Bedard’s value will never be higher. IU could see him traded

  146. Mister Delaware December 3rd, 2007 at 3:38 pm

    Andruw has finished 3rd, 4th and 1st in the NL in CF RZR the past three seasons.

  147. sunny615 December 3rd, 2007 at 3:38 pm

    Mike NYY – please tell me your joking.

  148. S.o.S.27 December 3rd, 2007 at 3:38 pm

    hmmm-ladies and gentlemen, the dumbest post in the history of lohud.

    You got my vote.
    I bet the privious #1 cant be happy. Expect another one to come not so long from now.

  149. Phil December 3rd, 2007 at 3:38 pm

    IRS: Bedard wants out from under Angelos. He already rejected extension overtures from MacPhail.

  150. IRS December 3rd, 2007 at 3:38 pm

    Yankee Trader, we are not going to trade the entire farm away this offseason. The Santana trade is enough. We don’t need haren or anybody else after that

    rotation would be Santana-Wang-Pettitte-Joba-Mussina/Kennedy

    Why would we need Haren in there? Joba and Kennedy need to get their innings too.

  151. IRS December 3rd, 2007 at 3:39 pm

    Thanks for the info Phil, I wasn’t aware of that.

  152. PK December 3rd, 2007 at 3:39 pm

    sunny615 December 3rd, 2007 at 3:34 pm

    minnysota
    December 3rd, 2007 at 3:32 pm
    BREAKING NEWS

    TWINS AND MARINERS HAVE COME TO AN AGREEMENT IN REGARDS TO TWINS PITCHER JOHAN SANTANA
    ————

    Yeah – they both agree they can’t afford him.

    HAHAH! By far one of the funniest things I have read on this site. Nice one, sunny..

  153. hmmm December 3rd, 2007 at 3:40 pm

    “I think Bubba Crosby is finally a free agent. ”

    no, i heard he was signed by Circuit City to man the stock room.

  154. Mike NYY- Save the Big Three December 3rd, 2007 at 3:40 pm

    Mike NYY – please tell me your joking.

    Are you kidding me? After that insightful post?

  155. IRS December 3rd, 2007 at 3:41 pm

    I hope Circuit City gave Bubba an incentive-based contract. Giving him anything guaranteed is a risk.

  156. sunny615 December 3rd, 2007 at 3:41 pm

    Consdering most reports indicate that McPhail is insane and wants 4 top prospects as a starting point in negotiations for Bedard, I don’t see anyone making any kind of leap to get Bedard.

  157. Dan from Mass December 3rd, 2007 at 3:42 pm

    raymagnetic, I feel the same way about Haren. All of a sudden he’s being talked about as a legit Plan B to Santana. I haven’t seen him pitch, so I’m admittedly just looking at stats, and they don’t impress me. His beard impresses me, and his salary over the next 3 years. But I really don’t get giving up ANY prospects of value for him.

  158. Yankee Trader December 3rd, 2007 at 3:42 pm

    No again to Andruw Jones- Have watched his play in Atlanta. He’s let himself go physically, clogs the base paths, or hits into double plays. He’s a declining homer bat who strikes out more than he connects.

    Rowand will get his 4-5 year 12-15M/year contract elsewhere.

    Mike cameron for 162 less 25 games might be a decent 1 year fill in!

    Fukudome is a lefty, best suited for a corner outfield spot.

  159. Mike NYY- Save the Big Three December 3rd, 2007 at 3:42 pm

    Seriously, I always like Bubba. Never thought he was any good but I liked him

  160. IRS December 3rd, 2007 at 3:42 pm

    sorry Yankee Trader i just realized that you mentioned haren only if we dont get santana.

  161. sunny615 December 3rd, 2007 at 3:42 pm

    Thanks PK.

  162. jay destro December 3rd, 2007 at 3:43 pm

    Nats get Elijah Dukes for half bag of balls

  163. migames December 3rd, 2007 at 3:43 pm

    “Can someone tell me on what grounds the Twins can file tampering charges against the Yankees, based on the comments by Boss Jr.”

    Hank told the AP, “As much as I want Santana, and you can make that clear — for his sake, to know that I do want him — the fact is that I’m not going to play the game.”

    Rules State: Baseball’s tampering rules prohibit officials from publicly discussing other teams’ players.

  164. Mike NYY- Save the Big Three December 3rd, 2007 at 3:44 pm

    Dukes and Milledge playing side by side

    Lovely

  165. IRS December 3rd, 2007 at 3:44 pm

    “clogs the base paths”

    You must follow the Dusty Baker school of thinking.

    “Clogging the basepaths” does not exist:

    http://www.dugoutcentral.com/blog/?p=542

  166. sunny615 December 3rd, 2007 at 3:45 pm

    From ESPN Jayson Stark re:Bedard:

    “So far, though, several teams that have asked about Bedard have come away saying they don’t see how any team can meet an asking price that eclipses what the Twins want for Santana — i.e., at least four young, big-time players. ”

    repeat after me… “McPhail is insane…”

    link: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....BHeadlines

  167. minnysota December 3rd, 2007 at 3:45 pm

    yeah,, its a trade

    im hearing reports that the twins are talking to the mets tonight…

    not sure about the truth on that.. but the mets say No jose Reyes

    and thats who the twins want..
    soo. talking with the mets will get them NO WHERE

  168. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge December 3rd, 2007 at 3:45 pm

    I would love if Bedard got traded!! Of I recall correctly he did very well against us.

  169. YankeeFan December 3rd, 2007 at 3:45 pm

    i can’t believe all this talk about rather having the 3 kids than santana. you guys can’t be serious.
    the biggest problem is the yanks arent built to wait for a few years down the road. by that time the team will be much different.
    with our veterans, we have to win right now. we need santana.
    i want to keep hughes too, but if it’s for anyone, it’s for the best pitcher in baseball. period.

    i also read that bedard isnt accepting an offer for extension either. smart on his part. good for the rest of baseball.

  170. Doreen December 3rd, 2007 at 3:46 pm

    I find it very, very interesting, and incredibly annoying, if true, that the Twins would file tampering charges against Hank Steinbrenner for saying what everyone must have assumed by now, that the Yankees want Santana. Duh! Mean time, the entire 2007 season was spent listening to how Arte Moreno could certainly use ARod, and he would find the money, etc., etc., but no tampering charges were filed against him.

    It’s like there’s rules for everyone else (or no rules) and then there’s rules for the Yankees. Eh!

  171. migames December 3rd, 2007 at 3:46 pm

    if someone doesnt clog up the base paths, his uniform doesnt get dirty enough…thats my fav stat: percentage of uniform that gets dirty or PUD

  172. migames December 3rd, 2007 at 3:47 pm

    Arte Moreno never said, i want arod, let me make that clear, for his sake.

  173. gayle December 3rd, 2007 at 3:48 pm

    If Elijah Dukes can get a handle on his off the field situation he could be a really good player. But that is a BIG IF.Maybe getting out of Tampa area will help for his personal self I certainly hope so. Until he went in the tank last year with his issues I had him on my fantasy team and he was really really good.

  174. Ice Age December 3rd, 2007 at 3:48 pm

    The Minnesota Twins need to shut up, make the trade, and give us a 48 hour window to complete a reasonable extension with Santana. After that is done they can do all the posturing and spinning they want.

  175. Yankee Trader December 3rd, 2007 at 3:48 pm

    IRS- Missed my point.

    If Yanks don’t get Santana, would you do trade with Ian Kennedy and Alan Horne, plus a lesser prospect for Dan Haren, thereby keeping Hughes? Would Beane consider this?? Will the Yankees pursue another starter if Santana doesn’t sign with them, now that Pettitte is coming back?

  176. ~Adam. December 3rd, 2007 at 3:48 pm

    RE: Bedard-

    Why would anyone trade four big time players for one big time player… makes no sense.

  177. migames December 3rd, 2007 at 3:49 pm

    …im sorry, if another owner says “We want arod, lets make it clear, for his sake.” we here at the blog would be going ape sh!t about it. lets call an spade a spade…

  178. Mike NYY- Save the Big Three December 3rd, 2007 at 3:50 pm

    PUD is overrate now if you comine it with Percentage of Collisions (POC) by addition you get DPC (Dirty Plus Collisions). THe best sabermetricians on the planet have decided on this stat

  179. raymagnetic December 3rd, 2007 at 3:51 pm

    Dan from Mass – Agreed about Haren’s impressive beard. It would take me 3 years to grow a beard like that.

  180. El Comaduce December 3rd, 2007 at 3:51 pm

    I agree on Mike and dog… i could talk baseball all year round….

  181. Seymour December 3rd, 2007 at 3:52 pm

    We want Bobcat! We want Miller!

  182. Yankee Sean December 3rd, 2007 at 3:53 pm

    yea mike and the dog is ALL football now…

  183. migames December 3rd, 2007 at 3:53 pm

    PUC and DPC are good, but not as good as PUC+ and DPC+

    We all know that collisions in Oakland are not the same as collisions in wrigley…less fould ground

  184. Motown Yankees Fan December 3rd, 2007 at 3:53 pm

    But Migames, what if someone high up in the Twins organization said “We want Hughes”, which is a more analogous situation. We’d probably be criticizing them for showing their hand, but not for tipping their hand.

  185. JohnBlacksox December 3rd, 2007 at 3:53 pm

    I’m not fluent in Japanese, but I do know that the “U” in the middle of a word is often/usually silent.

    For example Daisuke is not DIE-SOO-KAY, it’s DICE-KAY.

    So if I had to guess, I’d say Kosuke was KOH-SKAY, not KOH-SOO-KAY.

  186. raymagnetic December 3rd, 2007 at 3:54 pm

    “if someone doesnt clog up the base paths, his uniform doesnt get dirty enough…thats my fav stat: percentage of uniform that gets dirty or PUD”

    That’s exactly why Cano isn’t a good player. How much PUD does he have on his stat sheet?

  187. El Comaduce December 3rd, 2007 at 3:56 pm

    I hope John Sterling calls in to break the Santana Story like he broke the A-rod story to mike and dog…

  188. Motown Yankees Fan December 3rd, 2007 at 3:56 pm

    *not for tampering. Sorry.

    Although Migames I read your post above later and I guess the rules are the rules, I just think that’s a little silly. There should be some sort of materiality qualifier, like if you state the obvious about a player as Hank did, it’s not tampering.

  189. migames December 3rd, 2007 at 3:57 pm

    I think the tampering rules are kinda stupid, but like Chas Tenenbaum lets Royals know “them the rules.” Hank should know better than say something like that.

  190. Doreen December 3rd, 2007 at 3:57 pm

    migames,

    It comes down to semantics, in the end. The message from Moreno was clear, even if the words weren’t as poorly thought out as Hank’s. In this instance, I have to assume Santana knows the Yankees want him. Hank’s statement, while not cleverly crafted, didn’t tell Santana anything he didn’t already know. He didn’t make a contract offer, for cryin’ out loud.

  191. Ice Age December 3rd, 2007 at 3:57 pm

    migames half of the U.S. knows we are in trade discussions with the Twins for a one Johan Santana. How is that tampering? Hank wants a player that his team, the yankees are discussing a trade with the Twins for… big deal, if we were discussing trading A-Rod to the Mets and say Omar Minaya opens his mouth about wanting him, our reaction would be like… yeah we know Captain Obvious… thats why we are discussing a trade with you guys.

  192. IRS December 3rd, 2007 at 3:57 pm

    I previously apologized after realizing what you meant about Haren, Yankee Trader.

    MY opinion is that the Yankees should not hcase anyone other than Santana. If they dont get Santana, I am still ok with a rotation of Wang-Pettitte-Hughes-Joba-Moose/Kennedy.

    If they give up both Horne and Kennedy than the 2009 rotation could be a mess since Moose and Pettitte will both be gone.

    Wang-Hughes-Joba-Haren-???

    They would have to sign a free agent or use Igawa or another minor leaguer that isnt as good as kennedy or Horne for that last spot.

    Thats why giving up only one of the 4 pitchers is key, even for the sanatana trade

    In 2009, once Moose and Pettitte are gone the rotation would be

    Santana-Wang-Joba-Kennedy-Horne

    We have to keep 3 of the 4 out of Hughes/Joba/Kennedy/Horbe, or else Kei Igawa might just get a spot.

  193. Mike NYY- Save the Big Three December 3rd, 2007 at 3:58 pm

    DPC+ also adjusts for era though. Back in the day everybody was gritty therefore we need to adjust.

    Ty Cobb has the highest raw DPC of all-time but things were different back then and he competed against other gritty players. Therefore relatively his DPC was not as valuable. Chone Figgins has the highest DPC+ in history and when you use DPC++ which also accounts for major disabilities (such as being a little short) David Eckstein has the highest DPC++ in history

  194. jay destro December 3rd, 2007 at 3:58 pm

    I hope Sterling calls into Mike and Chris to break their necks.

  195. mel December 3rd, 2007 at 3:58 pm

    John,

    It’s true that if the u is follow by a consonant it can be a subtle u (and it is u, like ooh, not you) but it is there.

    But if the u is follow by a vowel it is very distinct. like MA-TSU-I.

    In your Daisuke example both are correct.

  196. Motown Yankees Fan December 3rd, 2007 at 3:59 pm

    Does anyone have a link to the actual tampering rule regarding discussing other teams’ players? I’d just be interested to see what it says.

  197. Blargh December 3rd, 2007 at 3:59 pm

    “I’m not fluent in Japanese, but I do know that the “U” in the middle of a word is often/usually silent.

    For example Daisuke is not DIE-SOO-KAY, it’s DICE-KAY.

    So if I had to guess, I’d say Kosuke was KOH-SKAY, not KOH-SOO-KAY.”

    -

    What you’re hearing is the reading being sped up to normal conversational speed
    So for the Daisuke example, you HEAR Dice-kay. The kana you READ/WRITE would still be da-i-su-ke.

  198. Mike NYY- Save the Big Three December 3rd, 2007 at 3:59 pm

    Cano has only a 63.4 DPC++ which is the second worst in the league above Mrs. Pay-Rod’s 59.1.

  199. EY December 3rd, 2007 at 3:59 pm

    JohnBlacksox

    It’s not a silent “u”, it’s still pronounced. It’s just not like dragged on like “Soooooo” but short and quick. It’s not “Soooo-Kay” and not “Skay”…but somewhere in between. Basic rule of thumb probably try to not emphasize or elongate any sound unless it’s specifically so.

  200. Mike NYY- Save the Big Three December 3rd, 2007 at 4:00 pm

    Let us know if Mike and the Maddog or 1050 ESPN radio starts talking about baseball.

  201. Ed FL December 3rd, 2007 at 4:01 pm

    Ice Age,
    Hank a direct message to Santana thru the press. Hank probably did not realize he was tampering but he was. The Twins can say Hanl wants Santana to force the team to deal only with Yankees.

  202. migames December 3rd, 2007 at 4:01 pm

    David Eckstein has the highest everything when it comes to those things
    PUD
    AAF (anti-arod factor)
    BHR (biggest heart range)
    DRS (Daniel “Rudy” Ruttiger Score)

  203. mel December 3rd, 2007 at 4:01 pm

    So is it really Kousuke? Then the first syllable is drawn out.

  204. RosterRooster December 3rd, 2007 at 4:01 pm

    IRS – Great article about Thomas, Thanks. Also, agreed about keeping 3 out of the 4 no matter what. Good posting.

  205. IRS December 3rd, 2007 at 4:02 pm

    I think Darin Erstad has a great DPC because he has that football mentality. After all, he played football in college…he was a punter.

  206. Ice Age December 3rd, 2007 at 4:02 pm

    When M&MD talk Football its zzzZZzzzZzZzz… Jeff on a car phone… zzzzZZzzzZzzz…

  207. Todd December 3rd, 2007 at 4:03 pm

    migames:

    and he once got named to the all Jewish team … pretty good considering he’s not Jewish.

  208. Bill December 3rd, 2007 at 4:03 pm

    If the Twins file tampering charges, what can come of that? Does anyone know what grounds they can file that on, or what the ramifications for the Yankees will be?

    Thanks

  209. Mike NYY- Save the Big Three December 3rd, 2007 at 4:04 pm

    David Eckstein has the highest everything when it comes to those things
    PUD
    AAF (anti-arod factor)
    BHR (biggest heart range)
    DRS (Daniel “Rudy” Ruttiger Score)

    Actually Figgins and Jeter both passed Eckstein in AAF last year.

    SOmebody should really tell those morons at Fire Joe Morgan about these :D

  210. hmmm December 3rd, 2007 at 4:05 pm

    “DRS (Daniel “Rudy” Ruttiger Score)”

    this is fantastic.

  211. Mike NYY- Save the Big Three December 3rd, 2007 at 4:05 pm

    Who has the higher career AAF Scott Brocius or Aaron Boone?

  212. IRS December 3rd, 2007 at 4:05 pm

    anyone else hear read firejoemorgan.com ?

    They are red sox fans unfortunately, but they are still pretty darn funny. Check out the tags for clogging the basepaths or joechat or erstad or eckstein, it’s hilarious

    Sorry for all the typos today, I don’t know what’s gotten into me. Oh yeah I know, I suck at typing accurately.

  213. rodg12 December 3rd, 2007 at 4:05 pm

    Ice Age December 3rd, 2007 at 4:02 pm

    When M&MD talk Football its zzzZZzzzZzZzz… Jeff on a car phone… zzzzZZzzzZzzz…

    Speaking of that….who the frick has a ‘car phone’ these days. That’s always bugged me.

  214. westchester dave December 3rd, 2007 at 4:06 pm

    Question: Is it a violation of the tampering rules for the Twins to state they want Hughes in a trade for Santana?

  215. El Comaduce December 3rd, 2007 at 4:06 pm

    Who has the higher career AAF Scott Brocius or Aaron Boone?

    How about the king??? Jim Leyritz?

    I love arod – but this is fun

  216. RosterRooster December 3rd, 2007 at 4:07 pm

    Bill – Hank Mentioned Santana by name, which you’re not supposed to do. Whether anything will come of it or not, we shall see. They could lose a draft pick I believe, though im not sure how high up.

  217. IRS December 3rd, 2007 at 4:07 pm

    Maybe ARod’s wife has the highest AAF+. Adjusted for strippers, of course.

  218. migames December 3rd, 2007 at 4:08 pm

    Scott Brocius scored a .785
    Aaron Boone has a .654 (he is still active, so he can improve his score as in the case of Scott, his score is set)
    Just on pure irony, Arod scored a .005 higher than Gary Sheffield, who scored a .004….wierd

  219. Mike NYY- Save the Big Three December 3rd, 2007 at 4:08 pm

    DRS is the most complicated of these stats you might not understand it

  220. mel December 3rd, 2007 at 4:08 pm

    If we lost a draft pick, one positive is that it MAY teach Hank a lesson. But I highly doubt it.

  221. rconn23 December 3rd, 2007 at 4:09 pm

    Joe Blanton. Folks, that is the answer. His numbers have gotten better each year. I think he could usurp Haren as the ace of that staff. He would likely cost a little less in terms of prospects and he is a solid 200 innings guy. No he is not Santana. But the most important thing for the Yanks with at least two young pitchers on staff is to get an innings horse to save the bullpen.

    If Santana doesn’t happen. Go after Blanton.

  222. IRS December 3rd, 2007 at 4:09 pm

    Rooster, thanks for the nicw words. I was shocked at just how little Thomas’s speed hurt the Blue Jays. I always thought that the idea of “clogging the basepaths” was overrated, but that article really hammers the point home.

    I’d like to see a similar analysis of Giambi. It seems whenever he is pinch-run for in the 6th inning or something, nothing ever came of it and then some scrub got his at-bat later in the game.

  223. Mister Delaware December 3rd, 2007 at 4:09 pm

    I know something else that’s “wierd”

  224. Artie A December 3rd, 2007 at 4:11 pm

    Boston isn’t giving up their top two, neither are the Yankees giving up their top two arms. Let’ hope for a draw/no deal with either Boston or NY. We pick up Bedard or Haren with one top arm and some prospects. With Andy back in the fold, it will be enough.

  225. hughesian bias December 3rd, 2007 at 4:11 pm

    i wonder what bobcat is up to… i hope he posts something about the winter meetings. even if it’s just speculation or a general “vibe” that he gets from the yankees/twins.

    hopefully he can provide some more insight on the santana deal. there must be so much going on right now and we’re just sitting here waiting…! argh i cant take it!

  226. Mister Delaware December 3rd, 2007 at 4:11 pm

    No Joe Blanton. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no … #3 stuff at best.

  227. migames December 3rd, 2007 at 4:11 pm

    “I know something else that’s “wierd””

    your uptight grammar corrections?

  228. IRS December 3rd, 2007 at 4:12 pm

    I agree with Mister Delaware about Blanton.

  229. Mike NYY- Save the Big Three December 3rd, 2007 at 4:12 pm

    Just on pure irony, Arod scored a .005 higher than Gary Sheffield, who scored a .004….wierd

    LOL we should set up our own Fire Joe Morgan type blog.

    Fire Steve Phillips!!!!!!

  230. mel December 3rd, 2007 at 4:12 pm

    So what Hank did wrong was saying he really wanted Santana, not that there’s a deadline and that the Yankees weren’t going to get jobbed by the Twins. Am I correct?

  231. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge December 3rd, 2007 at 4:12 pm

    Wow Mike is an idiot. Hester wasn’t a factor. Um the kicker kept kicking the ball out of bounce so they got it on the 40. Even though he didn’t touch the ball he was a factor.

  232. Blargh December 3rd, 2007 at 4:12 pm

    Yep, the kou in Kousuke’s drawn out
    Incidentally, while we’re on his name, let’s take a look at what his name means, individually (thanks to jisho.org; as my ability to read kanji* is non-existant)
    Family name: Fukudome
    The kanji used here for ‘fuku’ means good luck. The kanji used here for ‘dome’ can mean detain or halt.
    Personal name: Kousuke
    The kanji used here for ‘kou’ means filial piety. The kanji used for ‘suke’ here can mean: concern oneself with, jammed in, mediate, or shellfish.

    *Chinese characters; logographic writing system as opposed to alphabetic (each individual character represents a word/idea, as opposed to representing a phoneme)

  233. Ice Age December 3rd, 2007 at 4:12 pm

    Ed FL

    Then yes, but if the Twins pursue the tampering charge then they better know what their future without the Yankees as leverage in their trades with other teams would be like, I get the feeling Hank would ruthlessly cut the Twins off for good if they did that.

    (Yea Yea his word means nothing now after the A-Rod thing everyone is always mentioning when Hank opens his mouth, but I have a feeling he would take it personally)

    Antonio Pierce on Mike and the Mad dozzzZZzzZZZzZZzzzZZz

  234. Mike NYY- Save the Big Three December 3rd, 2007 at 4:15 pm

    Blanton’s not a bad option. He`ll be a lot cheaper Haren and less injury prone then Harden

  235. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge December 3rd, 2007 at 4:15 pm

    Look at the division he plays most of his games in. Blanton isn’t worth Kennedy let alone Hughes.

  236. Rebecca--Optimist Prime December 3rd, 2007 at 4:16 pm

    OMG

    GUYS

    I just found out I scored a 6 (perfect) on the writing portion of my GREs!

    This day gets better and better…

  237. mike f December 3rd, 2007 at 4:16 pm

    mike and the dog today have been beyond boring. how many different ways are they going to talk about that last giant play?

  238. Bill December 3rd, 2007 at 4:16 pm

    Thanks Rooster!

    Is it just me, or does Lil’ Stein scare you guys too? As much as I probably wouldn’t have admitted this a year or two ago, I really trust Cashman’s philosophy of developing young talent. I have this feeling of impending doom with Hank. I’m not trying to compare Santana to Kevin Brown, but I could see Hank making a similar deal.

  239. yankee21 December 3rd, 2007 at 4:16 pm

    What grounds would the Twins have to file tampering charges against the Yankees?

    Someone in the Yankees org stated through the media they have an interest in a guy who is under contract.

    Maybe I’m too simple but isn’t this the same organization that very publicly is pursuing negotiations with the team concerned about this same guy?

    Oh, I get it,, that must be tampering.

  240. Mike NYY- Save the Big Three December 3rd, 2007 at 4:17 pm

    They haven’t even mentioned baseball once in the past three hours. I hate being sick

  241. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge December 3rd, 2007 at 4:17 pm

    Rebecca weren’t those the tests you were all worried about?

  242. mike f December 3rd, 2007 at 4:17 pm

    mike nyy-save:

    i hear ya man!

  243. Go 4 Broke December 3rd, 2007 at 4:18 pm

    What if Cashman simply left this message at the voicemail for Johann Santana’s agent Peter Greenberg:

    “Hi Peter, this is Brian Cashman, general manager for the New York Yankees. I’m calling to let you know that if Johann
    Santana decides to become a free agent after next year, you have my and the Yankees word that we will offer him 6 years at $25M per year for $150M no matter what he does in 2008. That is how much we think of Johann. I can be reached anytime if you want to discuss this further.”

    Yes, I know it would be blatant, unabashed tampering, but what would be the punishment for the Yankees if Cashman did that?

  244. Mike R. December 3rd, 2007 at 4:18 pm

    Congratulations Rebecca. I guess all this posting really came in handy.

  245. Mike NYY- Save the Big Three December 3rd, 2007 at 4:18 pm

    Another stat:

    Squirrel Attraction Factor

  246. Rebecca--Optimist Prime December 3rd, 2007 at 4:18 pm

    jennifer: I take the fifth

  247. Todd December 3rd, 2007 at 4:18 pm

    mel:

    Yes, he publicly mentioned another team’s player by name. He made it worse by indicating he wanted Johan to understood they wanted him.

    Big Stein did the same thing whe the Yankees were trying to trade for Abreu … got his hand slapped.

  248. Motown Yankees Fan December 3rd, 2007 at 4:19 pm

    Rebecca – congratulations. You must have gone to a wonderful high school!

  249. rico December 3rd, 2007 at 4:19 pm

    Bobby Abreu or the foul pole clearly had the highest SAF last year.

  250. sweeney murti December 3rd, 2007 at 4:20 pm

    When am I going on mike & maddog?

  251. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge December 3rd, 2007 at 4:20 pm

    See you worried for nothing!! Congrats on the test!

  252. migames December 3rd, 2007 at 4:20 pm

    Yes, I know it would be blatant, unabashed tampering, but what would be the punishment for the Yankees if Cashman did that?

    cashman might get suspended….i think it happened to ted turner back in the day

  253. Ice Age December 3rd, 2007 at 4:21 pm

    Go 4 Broke,

    Death by hanging administered by Selig himself.

  254. bphill December 3rd, 2007 at 4:21 pm

    when are the yankees going to meet with the twins today? This deadline is ticking fast.

  255. rodg12 December 3rd, 2007 at 4:21 pm

    Sweeney was on WFAN from 11-12 ET today an will be all week. Doubt he does M&MD too.

  256. Todd December 3rd, 2007 at 4:22 pm

    Go 4 Broke:

    That sounds like Theo’s standard procedure.

  257. Mike NYY- Save the Big Three December 3rd, 2007 at 4:22 pm

    Bobby Abreu or the foul pole clearly had the highest SAF last year.

    That was really all from Andy Phillips and Derek jeter playing on the field. Abreu is not willing to crash into walls

  258. gayle December 3rd, 2007 at 4:22 pm

    Good luck finding any official rules with regard to tampering. I believe the only thing that is specifically spelled out is what you can and cannot discuss with a free agent during the current team exclusive window ie you cannot discuss terms but you can discuss how great your city is, where you see this person fitting into your team etc.

  259. CB December 3rd, 2007 at 4:23 pm

    The Nats tried to get the Brewers to trade them Rickie Weeks for Chad Cordero.

    It takes a lot of gall and the ability to keep a straight fact to be the GM of the Nats I guess.

    Doug Melvin said he’s not trading any of his young infielders for a closer. Sorry minnesota.

    http://blogs.jsonline.com/brew.....rdero.aspx

  260. pat December 3rd, 2007 at 4:23 pm

    Congrats Rebecca!!!!

    We told you that you did better than you thought. You forgot you’re own optimism mantra when it came to those GRE’s.

  261. Loserbob December 3rd, 2007 at 4:23 pm

    It’s clearly tampering, since you can’t publicly state you want another team’s player. Everything else have been reporter’s quoting “sources”, anonymous leaks, etc.

    You guys have to remember this is really Hank’s “real” first year in baseball operations, so he might not have been aware of the rules. Don’t forget he was managing the stables until recently.

  262. Ice Age December 3rd, 2007 at 4:23 pm

    Gary Mathews Sr. right migames? like 30 years ago, I think he was out for a year.

  263. sweeney murti December 3rd, 2007 at 4:23 pm

    ive never heard a more boring m&md ever. its like they are purposely avoiding me. i took a nap and they were still talking about the giants going for it or not. this is supposed to be an exciting baseball talk day.

  264. Mitchell's Eleven December 3rd, 2007 at 4:24 pm

    raymagnetic @ 3:28: correct. i don’t think anyone is saying that Johan Santana isn’t welcome on the Yankees. what the majority of folks are saying is that he’s not welcome at the expense of, arguably, our #1 prospect.

    raymagnetic @ 3:17: my mother-in-law cares about how much the Yankees spend, but i digress. again, you care when you spend, spend, and don’t win. you then wonder what the guy spending less than you is doing better than you are.

  265. Rebecca--Optimist Prime December 3rd, 2007 at 4:24 pm

    Motown:

    Was Roeser around when you went?

  266. Jason December 3rd, 2007 at 4:25 pm

    Bill-

    I think the opposite, I think Hank is doing a great job here. When a guy like Johan Santana is available, you have to go after him. This isn’t Kevin Brown or Randy Johnson. This is the best pitcher in the game, entering his prime.

    The Twins went to the Yankees and asked for Hughes/Melky, the Yankees tried to offer Kennedy/Melky, but the Twins balked so the Yankees put Hughes on the table. The Twins are now asking for another top level prospect and Hank said “No, this is the offer.”

    The Twins are trying to get the best deal for their side, and the Yankees are trying to get the best deal for them. It’s business.

  267. sweeney murti December 3rd, 2007 at 4:25 pm

    just heard i will be on soon, after college football

  268. sweeney murti December 3rd, 2007 at 4:25 pm

    after john heyman

  269. JeterMack Clutch December 3rd, 2007 at 4:25 pm

    don’t worry, inflation rate is around 6%

  270. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge December 3rd, 2007 at 4:26 pm

    Finally baseball talk!

  271. Ice Age December 3rd, 2007 at 4:26 pm

    Baseball on Mike and Chris soon peeps!

  272. gayle December 3rd, 2007 at 4:26 pm

    How about this quote from Bud Selig in a July 2004 article from the New York Sun when Big Stein was accused of perhaps tampering with Randy JOhnson. I would suggest that this is very much the same thing.

    In fact, the kissy-fest has worked both ways. Two weeks ago, Steinbrenner gushed publicly about how much he would “love” to have Randy Johnson, a clear violation of baseball’s tampering rules if ever there was one. But there was Selig jumping to the Boss’s defense: “You know tampering when you see it… Believe me when I tell you, that is not tampering.”

  273. sweeney murti December 3rd, 2007 at 4:26 pm

    heyman says cash just landed so we can start

  274. tim c. December 3rd, 2007 at 4:26 pm

    taking baseball on mike and mad dogg

  275. yankee21 December 3rd, 2007 at 4:26 pm

    For those worried about Hank popping off;;;;

    Let’s see do you really think Hank is winging this whole baseball ownership gig???

    Just spouting off, airing his thoughts, putting his feet down because he’s in charge and damn the torpedoes type thing??

    Or do you think there is a remote chance he is getting some legal guidance on baseball rules as needed, kind of like any billionaire would??

  276. sweeney murti December 3rd, 2007 at 4:26 pm

    and theyre laughing at hanks deadline

  277. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge December 3rd, 2007 at 4:26 pm

    Twins aren’t taking Yankees deadline seriously, they are laughing about it.

    Cash just landed so maybe we’ll hear news later tonight.

  278. Mister Delaware December 3rd, 2007 at 4:27 pm

    Heyman on.

  279. mike f December 3rd, 2007 at 4:27 pm

    john heyman just arrived on mike and dog…tune in

  280. CB December 3rd, 2007 at 4:27 pm

    john heyman on wfan now from the winter meetings.

  281. sweeney murti December 3rd, 2007 at 4:27 pm

    its either ellsbury or lester…we are getting santana

  282. Ice Age December 3rd, 2007 at 4:27 pm

    LOL the Twins better take that deadline dead seriously.

  283. Dave December 3rd, 2007 at 4:28 pm

    Steinbrenner is an idiot making all of these deadlines on everything. One, no one believes a word of it after he gave in during the arod situation. Two, if and when the yanks give into the twins and continue negotiations for santana after tomorrow, Steinbrenner and the yanks organzation look foolish once again. Three, if the yanks hold to this, they lose santana completely and risk santana going to the sox- exactly what we dont want to happen.

    I see what Hanky is trying to do – pressure the twins into dealing sooner rather than later so this yankee-sox back and forth offers can stop, the yanks dont have to continue putting more value into their offer, and no other team comes into the negotations late and blows all the other offers out of the water.

    But it just wont work – the twins gain nothing by trading santana now without knowing if the sox will increase their package and the twins dont even believe hank’s ultimatums when he just backed down on one not even a month ago. These ultimatums dont work when u dont always hold to it esp when you just backed down to the same type of threat.

    Just shut up hank – stop talking. You arent helping the matter at all. These threats ring hallow and are probably pissing the twins off. Either state that we wont increase the value of what we are offering, continue to negotiate or completely back out of the talks and go after haren to show you are playing hardball (or atleast spread some rumors that you are making an offer for haren.)

  284. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge December 3rd, 2007 at 4:28 pm

    Twins not high on Cabera, so we’ll just trade them Hughes and a mid level prospect. How can they not love Melky! How can Melky be an everday cf’er on the Yankees and not the Twins?

  285. sweeney murti December 3rd, 2007 at 4:28 pm

    why would anyone want coco crisp?

  286. Mike NYY- Save the Big Three December 3rd, 2007 at 4:28 pm

    Thanks for the Heyman update

  287. sweeney murti December 3rd, 2007 at 4:29 pm

    has hank gagged cash?

  288. Mister Delaware December 3rd, 2007 at 4:29 pm

    “I’ll even mention who said it so we can qualify it; Steve Phillips reported …”

  289. sweeney murti December 3rd, 2007 at 4:30 pm

    the mets are lost

  290. Ice Age December 3rd, 2007 at 4:31 pm

    Santana said he would not waive his no trade clause unless its for the Yankees or Red Sox right now (not next season during the season), what is it with all this Mets, Texas, Seattle BS?

  291. Loserbob December 3rd, 2007 at 4:31 pm

    Yankees21, you mean just like his dad did when he had “legal guidance on baseball rules as needed, kin of like any billionaire would”?

    Non of this will really matter unless Yankees DON’T get Santana. If Yankees land him, it’s good for a laugh among friends, if they don’t get him, Twinkies might milk this for a draft pick.

  292. CB December 3rd, 2007 at 4:31 pm

    kuroda for $15 million a year? was heyman serious?

  293. Mike NYY- Save the Big Three December 3rd, 2007 at 4:31 pm

    It turns out that was a false report

  294. Mike NYY- Save the Big Three December 3rd, 2007 at 4:31 pm

    I was talking about the no trade thing

  295. Mike NYY- Save the Big Three December 3rd, 2007 at 4:31 pm

    I was talking about the no trade thing

  296. GreenBeret7 December 3rd, 2007 at 4:31 pm

    I haven’t read everything on here yet, but, Dameso Marte is on the block, and NYY has interest. A great bullpen addition from the left side.

    http://www.timesonline.com/art.....794499.txt

  297. mel December 3rd, 2007 at 4:31 pm

    is “methodical” a euphimism for “don’t know what you’re doing”?

  298. sweeney murti December 3rd, 2007 at 4:32 pm

    hey man says nothing…at least he tried to be funny with kay

  299. YankeeDudel December 3rd, 2007 at 4:32 pm

    I hope Fukudome sings with the Rays. Then they could name the stadium after him: The Phuck-you-Dome.

  300. PittsburghYankeeFan December 3rd, 2007 at 4:32 pm

    Let the Yellow Sponge Cake team laugh–the laugh must be hysterical, since they are in a real bind.

    Their only leverage in this negotiation is the threat of the Red Sox, which is likely a bogus threat.

    The Sawx need to move on to things that they really want, such as Harden or more importantly, Miguel Cabrera (yes, you heard me).

    Theo the Gorilla Suited One may throw in the towel soon. If that happens, then maybe (just maybe) the Sponge Cakes take one of our “lists” without Hughes.

    Their fans would go nuts–but I suspect that their fans will go nuts regardless if they lose Santana.

  301. bphill December 3rd, 2007 at 4:33 pm

    what was the Heyman update…is Santana going to the Sox??

  302. Maverick December 3rd, 2007 at 4:33 pm

    Why is Peavy settling for a 3yr/53mil deal? He could get 6/106 if he wait til free agency. I guess he is guaranteeing that money in case he gets hurt but he isn’t going to get a big deal in 5 years when he is on the tail end of his career. Strike while the iron is hot.

  303. mike f December 3rd, 2007 at 4:33 pm

    mike nyc-save the big three

    get “save the big three” t shirts here. i just ordered one.

    http://www.artsnow.com/RAShop

  304. Mike NYY- Save the Big Three December 3rd, 2007 at 4:33 pm

    I like Marte. Wasn’t he rumored at the trade deadline

  305. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge December 3rd, 2007 at 4:33 pm

    Tejada to the ‘stros?

  306. rodg12 December 3rd, 2007 at 4:34 pm

    Where’d you hear that about Melky Jennifer?

  307. GreenBeret7 December 3rd, 2007 at 4:34 pm

    Matt
    December 3rd, 2007 at 2:42 pm
    That’s almost 4 times what the Twins’ payroll is…Crazy!

    _______________________________________________
    Sort of makes you wish the Twins owner would stick a crowbar is his wallet and free the moths, doesn’t it?l

  308. Mike NYY- Save the Big Three December 3rd, 2007 at 4:34 pm

    what was the Heyman update…is Santana going to the Sox??

    Just that he`s on YES

  309. sweeney murti December 3rd, 2007 at 4:34 pm

    when can i come on and say nothing too

  310. raymagnetic December 3rd, 2007 at 4:34 pm

    raymagnetic @ 3:17: my mother-in-law cares about how much the Yankees spend, but i digress. again, you care when you spend, spend, and don’t win. you then wonder what the guy spending less than you is doing better than you are.

    You keep confusing me with someone else. All I care about is if the Yankees win WS. Everything else is really just a minute detail.

    Why does your mother-in-law care about how much the Yankees spend? Is she under the delusion that the cost for tickets and concessions will go down if the Yankees spend less money? Trust me, if the Yankees lower their payroll to 100Mil everything will still cost the same amount or more year to year. Believe me.

  311. yanks December 3rd, 2007 at 4:34 pm

    hahaha..
    all the espn baseball reporters think hank is absurd for setting a deadline..

    funny

  312. Dan December 3rd, 2007 at 4:35 pm

    For those of you who are at work, I’m summarizing the highlights from the Heyman interview on Mike+Mad Dog that started at 4:30. I’ll have it up when its finished.

  313. PittsburghYankeeFan December 3rd, 2007 at 4:35 pm

    Green Beret

    Here in the Burgh, we are still trying to recover from the amazing dumbness of the Matt Morris debacle.

    I think Clippard +/- someone else may do it.

  314. saucy December 3rd, 2007 at 4:35 pm

    “Wow Mike is an idiot. Hester wasn’t a factor. Um the kicker kept kicking the ball out of bounce so they got it on the 40. Even though he didn’t touch the ball he was a factor.”

    agreed.

    kicking out of bounds kind of reminded me of barry bonds being walked. except they gave him 20 yards as opposed to 1 base.

  315. mel December 3rd, 2007 at 4:35 pm

    I hope that the Twins’ reaction gets back to Hank. I’d love to see him get all red and bluster and swear and puff on his cigs. We wouldn’t get Santana, but it would still be fun. I hope that the Yankees stick to their deadline. Otherwise teams and baseball won’t take the Yankees seriously.

  316. Jeff NJ December 3rd, 2007 at 4:35 pm

    The Twins should let the deadline pass just to gain some power back in the negotiations, ala A Rod opting out. If the Twins agree to our deal on Wed, do you really think the Yankees would say, nope it’s wednesday, it’s too late to get Santana now.

  317. Go 4 Broke December 3rd, 2007 at 4:35 pm

    migames-

    Suspended? For how long?

    sweeney murti-

    If that’s really you where are your eyelids? cuz you never blink bro hahaha. You also look like Gonzo from The Muppets.

  318. CB December 3rd, 2007 at 4:35 pm

    People have been trying to trade for Marte for over two years. The pirates keep asking for an absurd deal. It’s not going to happen.

    Everyone needs a guy like that out of the pen.

    Unfortunate that the yankees gave up on Marte.

  319. sweeney murti December 3rd, 2007 at 4:35 pm

    who the hell will sign andruw jones?

  320. bphill December 3rd, 2007 at 4:36 pm

    oh thanks i just turned it on…has he said anything about the Yankees or Sox and santana???????

  321. Mike NYY- Save the Big Three December 3rd, 2007 at 4:36 pm

    Thanks Dan, you have a nice blog

  322. Maverick December 3rd, 2007 at 4:37 pm

    That deadline is about as strong as his threat to not negotiate with Alex. If Santana can be had Hank will be listening up until a deal is made whether that is Dec/Jan or Feb

  323. hmmm December 3rd, 2007 at 4:37 pm

    “People have been trying to trade for Marte for over two years. The pirates keep asking for an absurd deal. It’s not going to happen.”

    well, to be fair, every year he moves closer to free agency.

  324. sweeney murti December 3rd, 2007 at 4:37 pm

    Dan,
    There will be no highlights.

  325. Ice Age December 3rd, 2007 at 4:38 pm

    Mike NYY- Save the Big Three,

    I heard that it was true, but that the Twins were doing a PR spin on it by claiming it was a complete falsehood. So I still think it’s true, because I can smell the desperation from the Twins’ camp all the way from here. They are trying to play it cool but I think Cashman has seen right through them, it is just us and the Red Sox and the Sox are bluffing.

  326. CB December 3rd, 2007 at 4:38 pm

    the dodgers have reportedly offered jones a 2 yr $32million dollar deal.

    If they can get him for that its a great deal for them.

    he’s already said he only wants to play in warm weather.

    i’m sure boras was thrilled with that statement.

  327. sweeney murti December 3rd, 2007 at 4:38 pm

    Mets should trade Reyes for Santana.

  328. Dan December 3rd, 2007 at 4:39 pm

    Sweeny,

    yea, your are right so far, for the most part. there was a mention of jim edmonds to the yankees if they trade melky-but the padres make more sense for that one

  329. hmmm December 3rd, 2007 at 4:39 pm

    “Mets should trade Reyes for Santana.”

    i would love for this to happen.

    for so many reasons.

    it would keep santana in the NL.

    and it would be a dumb trade for the Mets.

  330. bphill December 3rd, 2007 at 4:40 pm

    Heyman said that Sheets will not get traded this yeear.

  331. sweeney murti December 3rd, 2007 at 4:40 pm

    “a volcanic steinbrenner” did mike just say that?

  332. Ice Age December 3rd, 2007 at 4:40 pm

    The deadline will stick, the people who say it wont are not realizing that Hank needs this deadline to stick more than anything else, everyone thinks he caved on A-Rod, he will use this chance to ram his heel down on that perceived weakness.

  333. Mike NYY- Save the Big Three December 3rd, 2007 at 4:40 pm

    And did Heyman just laugh at it?

  334. CB December 3rd, 2007 at 4:40 pm

    hmmm,

    True. But do you see the pirates actually getting their act together to trade him? Especially with their new first year GM?

    I’d love to pick him up. But they tried at the trade deadline this year as did many teams and I don’t think anything progressed.

  335. Nick in SF December 3rd, 2007 at 4:40 pm

    Just to repeat what has been a contentious point on this blog, Peter Gammons just repeated on ESPN News that if the Sox get Santana, they’ll also probably have to tear up Beckett’s 10-10-12 contract, costing them even more money.

  336. yankee21 December 3rd, 2007 at 4:40 pm

    The Twins will make a trading decision on the merits of the final proposals for Santana. Period..

    What Hank says or doesn’t say in the media doesn’t mean squat to the Twins about whether to accept or reject a proposal. This is all posturing BS.

    Hank could do the “iggy shuffle” and chant I want Santana on live tv and although it might impress for ratings, any GM worth their salt, which I assume Mr Smith is, would still make the trade based on players projected value to the team vs. some owner’s actions.

  337. sweeney murti December 3rd, 2007 at 4:41 pm

    NY will be in love with this guy’? did mike just say that? meaning hank

  338. Mike NYY- Save the Big Three December 3rd, 2007 at 4:41 pm

    Sweeny is meeting with Cashman and then calling WFAN. Sweet

  339. Maverick December 3rd, 2007 at 4:41 pm

    Sheets shouldn’t get traded, the market for him wouldn’t be that strong considering the other pitchers getting moved. You would have to take a lesser package b/c a team isn’t going to offer a package that could get a guy like Haren, Bedard, etc. instead

  340. mel December 3rd, 2007 at 4:41 pm

    You guys are listening to the radio? I’m following online and there’s a delay.

  341. mike f December 3rd, 2007 at 4:42 pm

    yeah mel, there does seem to be a minute or two delay

  342. CaptainsCorner December 3rd, 2007 at 4:42 pm

    Gammons is SUCH a joke!!! He said that the pitching coach for Boston and officials in the Boston organization think Lester could be just as good as Hughes or could have a higher ceiling. Just comical..

  343. minnysota December 3rd, 2007 at 4:42 pm

    Ice Age December 3rd, 2007 at 4:38 pm

    Mike NYY- Save the Big Three,

    I heard that it was true, but that the Twins were doing a PR spin on it by claiming it was a complete falsehood. So I still think it’s true, because I can smell the desperation from the Twins’ camp all the way from here. They are trying to play it cool but I think Cashman has seen right through them, it is just us and the Red Sox and the Sox are bluffing.

    and hank put a deadline on it, who is desperate?

    twins will let this deadline come and go..
    tomorrow will come about and the yanks will still want johan

  344. Mike NYY- Save the Big Three December 3rd, 2007 at 4:42 pm

    Good thing for this blog to keep up with everything on different stations

  345. Ice Age December 3rd, 2007 at 4:42 pm

    I am using iTunes and there is a delay.

  346. rodg12 December 3rd, 2007 at 4:43 pm

    Same thing with me Mel.

  347. Doreen December 3rd, 2007 at 4:43 pm

    Congratulations, Rebecca!!!!!

  348. sweeney murti December 3rd, 2007 at 4:43 pm

    Mike nyy,

    Dont worry I will have nuthin to say as usual.

  349. Maverick December 3rd, 2007 at 4:43 pm

    Why do they have to tear up his contract? What is he going to do sit out for 3 years? He has no option but to finish out his contract. This isn’t the NFL, I really don’t get it. I have never heard of a team tearing up a great deal and giving a guy more. Can someone explain why/how they would do this, please?

  350. bphill December 3rd, 2007 at 4:44 pm

    im watching on tv…….who is cash meeitng with?????

  351. Balls Mahoney December 3rd, 2007 at 4:44 pm

    Here’s a question and answer from recent a Q & A with the new Pirates GM. This is not made up:

    The Pirates upper management has widely ignored OBP (on base percentage) in the past. How important will OBP be in player evaluation under your leadership?
    – Eric S., Pennsboro, W.Va

    We are going to utilize several objective measures of player performance to evaluate and develop players. We’ll rely on the more traditional objective evaluations: OPS (on base percentage plus slugging percentage) , WHIP (walks and hits per inning pitched), Runs Created, ERC (Component ERA), GB/FB (ground ball to fly ball ratio), K/9 (strikeouts per nine innings), K/BB (strikeouts to walks ratio), BB%, etc., but we’ll also look to rely on some of the more recent variations: VORP (value over replacement player), Relative Performance, EqAve (equivalent average), EqOBP (equivalent on base percentage), EqSLG (equivalent slugging percentage), BIP% (balls put into play percentage), wOBA (weighted on base average), Range Factor, PMR (probabilistic model of range) and Zone Rating.

    This guy is hardcore! But when they suck due to a low payroll people will instead blame SABR.

  352. Mike NYY- Save the Big Three December 3rd, 2007 at 4:44 pm

    I was having trouble with WFAN earl;ier but swithed to TV

    Gammons is SUCH a joke!!! He said that the pitching coach for Boston and officials in the Boston organization think Lester could be just as good as Hughes or could have a higher ceiling. Just comical..

    I can’t kill Gammons. He`s really very good if biased. It might also just be Boston officials pumping their own prospects

  353. GreenBeret7 December 3rd, 2007 at 4:44 pm

    fleas
    December 3rd, 2007 at 2:50 pm
    How do you pronounce this? *Kosuke Fukudome ..* ??? What a terrible name.

    ____________________________________________________
    It’s the perfect baseball name if you played in Minnesota. Imagine the publicity it would get if he was there when the Twins were pushing for a new stadium.

  354. Maverick December 3rd, 2007 at 4:44 pm

    CaptainsCorner,

    I have heard a lot of people say that like the beat writer for Scranton who has a pretty good blog. He said they are definately comparable and before Lester got sick he was ranked higher than Hughes by almost everyone.

  355. mel December 3rd, 2007 at 4:45 pm

    Well, Maverick, apparently they can do it, because the Dalai Lama of Baseball said so.

    Do they seriously have Superman music for the traffic report?

  356. PittsburghYankeeFan December 3rd, 2007 at 4:45 pm

    My bet is that tonight is the deadline for THIS offer. They will come back with a lesser offer tomorrow.

    Twins are really playing with a low hand here.

  357. Ice Age December 3rd, 2007 at 4:45 pm

    minnysota,

    Pettite is back, Santana has turned into a luxury, a luxury not worth being jerked around back and forward by the Twins running back to the Sox every two seconds for a better offer and gossip for weeks.

  358. Mike NYY- Save the Big Three December 3rd, 2007 at 4:46 pm

    im watching on tv…….who is cash meeitng with?????

    Sweeney Murti

  359. sweeney murti December 3rd, 2007 at 4:46 pm

    Thsi meeting won’t get rolling until after drinks.

  360. mike f December 3rd, 2007 at 4:46 pm

    it’s hard to get down on gammons too much. he’s just a kindly old drunk.

    but biased.

  361. Mister Delaware December 3rd, 2007 at 4:46 pm

    Gammons is little more than a propagandist these days. Which is sad.

  362. LCâ„¢ December 3rd, 2007 at 4:46 pm

    did Heyman have anything good?

  363. Maverick December 3rd, 2007 at 4:47 pm

    mel,

    I understand they CAN do it but why do they HAVE to? He has no options but to go out there and pitch. What is he going to do sit out and get paid nothing

  364. sweeney murti December 3rd, 2007 at 4:47 pm

    Hank has just un gagged Cash

  365. hmmm December 3rd, 2007 at 4:47 pm

    “Just to repeat what has been a contentious point on this blog, Peter Gammons just repeated on ESPN News that if the Sox get Santana, they’ll also probably have to tear up Beckett’s 10-10-12 contract, costing them even more money.”

    and it’s still nonsense.

    hey, if i am wrong, i will let people make fun of me for a week, but i am basically positive that this will not happen.

    why didn’t they “tear up” Ortiz’s contract? he now makes less than JD Drew. he makes less than Mike Lowell.

    this DOESN’T HAPPEN in baseball.

    it WILL NOT happen.

  366. mike f December 3rd, 2007 at 4:47 pm

    i think i’ll check out michael kay and see if he has anything

  367. Bill December 3rd, 2007 at 4:47 pm

    Jason,

    I can see your point, and I agree that Santana is one of the best pitchers in the game. I’m definitely not trying to compare him to Kevin Brown. What I meant was that I could see Hank going after the next Kevin Brown. I don’t like the way Hank is going about everything. He is taking the job of the general manager with a gun slinger mentality. We’ve had enough of that. The Yankees have been outplayed by younger teams for years.

    I have a feeling we disagree on the value of Hughes to the team now and down the road. That’s ok, that’s what makes these message boards fun and interesting.

    All that is not to say that I wouldn’t be happy to see Santana in pinstripes next season. I would probably just be disappointed with what we gave away.

  368. rrreee December 3rd, 2007 at 4:47 pm

    Heyman never has anything good.

  369. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge December 3rd, 2007 at 4:47 pm

    Re: Melky on Heymans report on Mike and the Mad Dog.

  370. VOIII December 3rd, 2007 at 4:48 pm

    The deadline you all are talking about is not a hard deadline. All it means is that the Yankees will focus their attention on other frontline starters. Once they do they may trade the chips that the Twinkies want to another team.

    They are telling them we are not going to put all of our eggs in one basket, just like you.
    We have the best available young starting pitcher who costs no money and a very solid 23 year old CF who you will control for years and another solid prospect. We think this is the best deal you will get. If we trade them or some of them to another team or acquire another ace you are left holding an empty bag.
    They want to laugh let them. If they want to come back and accept an offer that is clearly the best on the table. The Yankees will listen, they just won’t wait forever while they are working on another deal.

  371. mel December 3rd, 2007 at 4:48 pm

    I’m sorry Maverick. I was being sarcastic. Can they really rework a contract?

  372. Mike NYY- Save the Big Three December 3rd, 2007 at 4:48 pm

    Thanks Mike

  373. Go 4 Broke December 3rd, 2007 at 4:48 pm

    What was the origin of “tampering” i.e. was there one specific case of it that prompted M.L.B. to create that as an offense?

    Couldn’t every guy signing a big contract with a new team be a byproduct of tampering? Manny Ramirez got 8 years and $160M from Boston. That’s quite alot of years and money for a guy who never played for the Red Sox. I could see Theo Epstein making that offer to Manny’s agents (Hendricks Bros. right?) from a payphone and what were Manny’s agents gonna do, report it to M.L.B? They’d keep their mouth shut and I bet that’s what they did like I bet Theo made that offer while Manny was still a Cleveland Indian. You report that to M.L.B., you might lose that contract cuz what if Manny got hurt in his walk year?

  374. mike f December 3rd, 2007 at 4:48 pm

    nevermind. mr kay is still doing the jets

  375. Grant December 3rd, 2007 at 4:48 pm

    SO WHAT! The Yankees bring in $270+ million a year plus what the YES network brings in. Plus Pettite, Moose, Giambi, Abreau, Damon et al are coming off the books in 08/09.

  376. Alan December 3rd, 2007 at 4:48 pm

    Nick in SF -

    I’m not a fan of Gammons but he is right in saying Beckett’s contract would need to be re-worked in the event that Santana went to Boston.
    Of course there are delusional Boston fans that say he’ll honor his present contract and just loves that uniform and college cowtown. Yeah ….sure.

  377. sweeney murti December 3rd, 2007 at 4:48 pm

    mel,
    make sure you shower afterwards

  378. Pinstriped Playa December 3rd, 2007 at 4:49 pm

    Hey.. just a thought

    hate to sound ungrateful – the Yankees have spent so much money on this team… but the bullpen is still an area of concern to me.

    has anyone considered the idea of possibly talking to Bartolo Colon about being a set-up guy?

    we could use a strong 8th inning guy.

    I know the injury is something to worry about, but the more i think about it, the more i like it.

    …again, just a thought.

  379. Dan December 3rd, 2007 at 4:49 pm

    I am so glad that Hank is outspoken. Do you think it’s possible that he set the deadline because he really doesn’t want to trade Hughes after all?

  380. Mike NYY- Save the Big Three December 3rd, 2007 at 4:50 pm

    Everybody cares about the 3 win Jets right? No offense to Jets fans but they`re not really big news today

  381. Maverick December 3rd, 2007 at 4:50 pm

    It would take Colon an hour to run in from the bullpen so hopefully he comes in before they stop selling beer. Maybe they can bring back those carts to drive people in

  382. CB December 3rd, 2007 at 4:50 pm

    There was never, ever any comparison between Hughes and Lester in the minor leagues.

    Lester was considered to be a top 20-25 type prospect. Lester was highest baseball america ranking was 22. And he was older than Hughes at that time.

    Hughes was considered a top 5 prospect by everyone and the top prospect by many.

    Look at their minor leagues stats. No comparison. Lester is lefty. That’s it. His only advantage.

  383. Ice Age December 3rd, 2007 at 4:50 pm

    Gammons has let the HoF get to his head, he doesn’t even try to hide his Sox bias anymore, like why would the Red Sox need to re-up Beckett? He signed that deal, now he has to live with it, but no Gammons has to stick up for his hero and say something stupid. It’s not like we are talking to Jeter about paying him 29 million per because we gave A-Rod a bigger contract.

  384. mel December 3rd, 2007 at 4:51 pm

    mel,
    make sure you shower afterwards

    ??

  385. Maverick December 3rd, 2007 at 4:51 pm

    CB
    From Chad jennings blog

    RHP Jon Lester
    Do not underestimate the value of this guy. He’s in the same league as Ian Kennedy, and you can very easily argue that he’s better. Just two years ago, Lester was considered a brighter Red Sox prospect than Jonathan Papelbon. He was more or less on par with Phil Hughes, with two of the four writers in the 2006 Prospect Handbook ranking Lester ahead of Hughes. The other two, obviously, had Hughes higher. Now 23 years old, Lester pitched well this season after coming back from cancer and profiles as a potential front-of-the-rotation starter. He is a very, very good pitching prospect.
    Comparable Yankees prospect: Lester is probably somewhere between Hughes and Kennedy. It would certainly take one of those two to match this level of pitching prospect. My guess is that Hughes would have to be considered an upgrade, but Lester vs. Kennedy would be more a matter of personal preference. To be honest, I would prefer Lester.

  386. sweeney murti December 3rd, 2007 at 4:52 pm

    lowery lester and crisp for haren? says mike

  387. hmmm December 3rd, 2007 at 4:53 pm

    “I’m not a fan of Gammons but he is right in saying Beckett’s contract would need to be re-worked in the event that Santana went to Boston.
    Of course there are delusional Boston fans that say he’ll honor his present contract and just loves that uniform and college cowtown”

    WHAT WOULD HE DO?

  388. bphill December 3rd, 2007 at 4:54 pm

    Tim Lincecum is “on the market” the reds have talked about him…but the yankees aren’t going to get him i was just telling you guys.

  389. sweeney murti December 3rd, 2007 at 4:54 pm

    gotta run…fatso and fruitloops are calling

  390. Nick in SF December 3rd, 2007 at 4:54 pm

    Obviously the Sox would not HAVE to renegotiate with Beckett if they get Santana. So is it simply Gammons’ off-the-cuff opinion that they would feel some obligation to do so, or does he have a reason to say it? Inside knowledge? Red Sox spin? Rationalization? Unless you think that Gammons is already drunk and just likes the sound of his own voice, he isn’t saying it for nothing.

  391. mel December 3rd, 2007 at 4:55 pm

    So basically the scouts said that years ago Lester was on par with Hughes, but now he’s more comparable with Kennedy with Hughes being better than both of them.

  392. Mister Delaware December 3rd, 2007 at 4:55 pm

    Sabean and Colletti are going to try to out moron each other again this offseason?

  393. mike f December 3rd, 2007 at 4:55 pm

    the giants would be idiots to trade lincecum, but i read that article as well

  394. Maverick December 3rd, 2007 at 4:56 pm

    Nick in SF

    Yeah that makes sense I guess. I have never heard of a team doing it but it does sound somwhat logical

  395. Fan December 3rd, 2007 at 4:56 pm

    //How can they not love Melky! How can Melky be an everday cf’er on the Yankees and not the Twins?//

    Two words: Torii Hunter.

    Hunter vs. Cabrera is like Secretariat vs. a farm horse.

  396. Phil December 3rd, 2007 at 4:57 pm

    As much as an out and out Red Sox fan Gammons is, he is still one of the few writers whose call every GM takes.

    He is tight with Theo, Billy Beane, J.P. Riccardi, Brian Sabean, and others.

  397. bphill December 3rd, 2007 at 4:57 pm

    sweeney…says mike who? maddog?

  398. Rebecca--Optimist Prime December 3rd, 2007 at 4:57 pm

    Life is good.

  399. Maverick December 3rd, 2007 at 4:57 pm

    mel,

    Yeah I guess. I’m sure its hard to rank him just because he missed some time that wasn’t arm related.

  400. hmmm December 3rd, 2007 at 4:57 pm

    “So is it simply Gammons’ off-the-cuff opinion that they would feel some obligation to do so, or does he have a reason to say it? ”

    whatever it is, it’s dumb.

    how can Ortiz make $13M when Manny makes $20M?

    the whole thing makes ZERO sense.

  401. minnysota December 3rd, 2007 at 4:57 pm

    Johan Santana Rumors: Monday

    UPDATE, 12-3-07 at 3:55pm: According to Kelly Thesier, the Twins are in no rush to trade Santana and aren’t worried about the Yankees’ deadline.

    thats the latest that ive heard

  402. JT from NYC December 3rd, 2007 at 4:58 pm

    Maverick,

    Lester is totally overrated by that BS SUX hype. If you take a look at his numbers, you would know that he is not even on the level of Kennedy, regardless of his “stuff”.

  403. Mike R. December 3rd, 2007 at 4:58 pm

    mike f
    December 3rd, 2007 at 4:55 pm
    the giants would be idiots to trade lincecum, but i read that article as well

    Just like that? They would be idiots? How can you know that they would be idiots if you don’t know what they could get in return? What if they trade him to the Dodgers for Kemp, and Kershaw? Or Kemp, Loney and LaRoche? The Giants seriously need an offensive boost and their farm looks bare.

    I am not saying that they will get that package, but there is no way to know unless you try.

  404. Mister Delaware December 3rd, 2007 at 4:58 pm

    Back to tampering: What if the Yankees were to say they would certainly pay $18MM per if a lefty over 6’6 reached the market next offseason? Can MLB say “its obvious you meant C.C. and not Randy Johnson” and penalize them? (Because, it would be really cool if they said that. I’m on this tiny little island whose inhabitants would rather sign C.C. than Johan if its for 6 years.)

  405. marc December 3rd, 2007 at 4:59 pm

    Hank is looking to keep Hughes, watch as he pisses off the twins

  406. Maverick December 3rd, 2007 at 5:00 pm

    JT,

    That was from a guy that watches every Scranton game and probably has a lot of minor league sources such as Eiland who he probably talked to every day and works for a paper that covers the Yankees so I don’t think that he would favor a Sox player for the fun of it. But you can feel like you are being picked on if you want

  407. mike f December 3rd, 2007 at 5:01 pm

    mike r:

    yeah , you’re right. they might get beckett, ortiz, and manny for him too, but lets be real. there was no reason to attack what i said.

    they would be a fool to trade away a young pitcher with a VERY high ceiling. period.

  408. Ice Age December 3rd, 2007 at 5:01 pm

    Nick in SF,

    Super Red Sox Cyclone Spin is why he said it, you didn’t hear him say the Yankees had to renegotiate with Jeter when there was talk of 300+ million for A-Rod. He just said it to help out his boy Beckett to get more cash, though it wont.

  409. bphill December 3rd, 2007 at 5:01 pm

    If i were the Yankees, I would ALREADY be turning my attention to Bedard or Haren.

  410. Dan December 3rd, 2007 at 5:02 pm

    Mav,

    I’ve spoken with Chad many, many times. He really knows his stuff.

  411. Maverick December 3rd, 2007 at 5:02 pm

    bphill,

    Why so you can get a pitcher who is not as good for the same package??? Good idea

  412. CB December 3rd, 2007 at 5:02 pm

    Maverick,

    Chad Jennings has a nice blog but he only covers Scranton Pennsylvania for a very, very small local paper.

    He is the “beat” writer who covers the Yankees AAA team. He’s not a scout.

    Most of the guys he talks about he’s never seen. I enjoy his stuff but he only gets to see the triple A guys.

    So its nice that he has a copy of Baseball Prospect’s Prospect Book and can read what it says inside.

    And its nice that 2 of 4 scouts thought there was a comparison between hughes and lester. That was not the general feeling of people in baseball.

    Look yourself what the people of baseball prospectus thought of hughes last year:

    http://www.baseballprospectus......cleid=5892

    Also just check out baseball america:

    http://www.baseballamerica.com.....26983.html

    There is no comparison.

  413. Ice Age December 3rd, 2007 at 5:02 pm

    5pm special on espn2 in case you all forgot on the Winter Meetings.

  414. Jax December 3rd, 2007 at 5:03 pm

    Not a chance the Red Sox get Haren for Lowrie,Lester and Crisp. No way! Going to have to cough up alot more than that.

  415. Maverick December 3rd, 2007 at 5:04 pm

    Dan,

    Yeah he has some good stuff on his site. I usually check it a couple times a week. Being a minor league guy he doesn’t have as much to write on so there aren’t as many updates but he seems like he knows his stuff.

  416. Mike R. December 3rd, 2007 at 5:04 pm

    Mike F. – I didn’t mean to be harsh, but I just find it amusing when people make broad generalizations. Lincecum could bring back a very attractive return. The Orioles are asking for four top prospects for Bedard, why wouldn’t San Fran get something similar for Lincecum?

    I’m just saying. I apologize if my comments seemed like an attack?

  417. yanklifer December 3rd, 2007 at 5:04 pm

    Buster on Michael Kay now

  418. Ice Age December 3rd, 2007 at 5:04 pm

    bphill,

    you seriously don’t think that Cash is on the phone all day talking about plan B C D E F G for other pitchers in case the Twins ride their high horse to Boston for good.

  419. CB December 3rd, 2007 at 5:04 pm

    Maverick,

    Also – think about it this way. In 2006 phil hughes was 19. John Lester was 22.

    If two prospect pitchers are “equal” in performance and one is 19 and the other is 22 there is no comparison between them.

  420. * * THEE BOSTON BUGLE * * December 3rd, 2007 at 5:04 pm

    John Henry could tell Gammons that the Socks signed a pitcher that throws 110 mph, works out of a phonebooth, and can fly over the Green Sardine Can. Gammons would say, “Yes Boss” and report it on ESPN.

  421. bphill December 3rd, 2007 at 5:05 pm

    yankifer…tell wahts happening with buster…i’m not finding mk radio show.

  422. Mike R. December 3rd, 2007 at 5:05 pm

    “I’m just saying. I apologize if my comments seemed like an attack?”

    That shouldn’t have been a question.

  423. mel December 3rd, 2007 at 5:07 pm

    As foolish as Hank’s statements from yesterday are they may serve several purpose:

    1. If successful, it get’s them Santana on the cheap.

    2. Otherwise, putting the foot down puts Twins on notice, and it gives them the opportunity to take Hughes out of the deal if the Twins want to resume trade talks.

    3. Allows them to bluff their way out of the trade that would have sent Hughes to the Twins. Hank may have underestimated the love that the Yankees fanbase has for Prince Philip. I’m sure there’s been some sort of backlash already.

    I could be wrong and he may have been blowing smoke. If that’s the case, then it’s a sad day for Yankee fans when the owner makes hollow statements.

  424. Maverick December 3rd, 2007 at 5:07 pm

    CB,

    If ones a lefty and ones a righty and they have the same stuff who usually is more valued though? If Haren and Santana had the same stuff and value wouldn’t you rather have the lefty? I would rather have Hughes right now I’m just saying Lester isn’t a bum who is overhyped like the crybabies who feel like everyone hates the Yanks think

  425. yanklifer December 3rd, 2007 at 5:07 pm

    Buster says their is a feeling that the yankees are no longer desperate re: santana due to Andy coming back, and Twins are very pissed at Hank, there is a decent chance that nothing gets done. Doesn’t think Sox are serious

  426. will December 3rd, 2007 at 5:08 pm

    re: the becket renegotiation comment

    maybe it’s the redsox first step back…leaking to the press that if they keep going after santana, it’s gunna cost them santana’s contract, plus the renegotiated beckett deal

  427. CB December 3rd, 2007 at 5:08 pm

    Buster said Andy Pettite’s return completely changes the yankees perception of how badly they need santana.

    He said they feel much less urgency and are less pressed to get it done.

    Also said that the twins are seriously thinking of tampering charges.

  428. bphill December 3rd, 2007 at 5:08 pm

    sounds familiar.

  429. yanklifer December 3rd, 2007 at 5:09 pm

    Agrees Yankee offer is best.

  430. Maverick December 3rd, 2007 at 5:09 pm

    If the Yankees really didn’t think the Red Sox were in this for the long haul they would back out tonight and wait a week or two and start up talks again and try to get him for a weaker package. If you feel like the Sox are serious than you get the deal done tonight. They don’t need to be bidding against themselves any longer so they have to do one or the other

  431. Rebecca--Optimist Prime December 3rd, 2007 at 5:09 pm

    I love this. I don’t even have to turn on the TV or radio to get my baseball news.

  432. yanklifer December 3rd, 2007 at 5:10 pm

    They are saying Hank’s deadline holds no weight at all

  433. Maverick December 3rd, 2007 at 5:10 pm

    I’m sure billionaire Hank Steinbrenner isn’t afraid of a tampering fine. He probably spends more on jet fuel or cigarrettes during a weekend

  434. Nick in SF December 3rd, 2007 at 5:10 pm

    Ok, so if what Gammons said was just Red Sox spin, was he saying it because the Sox are excited about getting Santana and then giving Beckett an extention/renegotiation, because he just likes Beckett and wants to give him and his bank account a plug, or because the Sox think/know they won’t be getting Santana and the Beckett contract angle is one (feeble) excuse? Or none of the above, of course.

    I just thought it was worth posting here to show that 1) it isn’t just jokers on this blog that had the notion and 2) it’s interesting that it’s Sox insider Gammons saying it.

  435. hmmm December 3rd, 2007 at 5:10 pm

    “maybe it’s the redsox first step back…leaking to the press that if they keep going after santana, it’s gunna cost them santana’s contract, plus the renegotiated beckett deal”

    i think this is more likely.

    the Red Sox were the ones taking the risk when they gave Beckett his extension b/c when they gave it to him, he SUCKED.

    he signed the contract when he was having a bad year. he will have to live with it.

    if the Sox re-worked the deal, would they undo the re-worked contract if he sucks again next year?

    the whole thing just defies common sense, and that actual intelligent people would think otherwise.

  436. EdWhitson December 3rd, 2007 at 5:11 pm

    Guys, Bedard hates NYC….he thinks the media is too much in Baltimore…he would get killed here…BTW, the guy has never threw 200 innings and will be 29 in 2008….don’t get the excitement about him….let’s go with Andy, Wang and the Big 3….that’s better than than our rotation on Opening Day 2007

  437. Dan December 3rd, 2007 at 5:11 pm

    I think Yanks are not real high on trading Hughes, and they are perfectly happy to let the deal “expire” because they want Hughes in the rotation next year.

  438. Drive 4-5 December 3rd, 2007 at 5:11 pm

    I hate to say it, but I do think the Yanks have over- valued Melky. He has limited power and a very low on base percentage (only .327 last year). I can’t blame the Twins asking for a higher prospect.

    Now that Andy and his $16mil salary is back,the Yanks will have the highest payroll in history. Without Santana and some bullpen help, the Yanks could be paying all those salaries for nothing.

  439. CB December 3rd, 2007 at 5:11 pm

    Maverick,

    I like Lester quite a bit and if he improves his control he could be an excellent pitcher.

    I totally agree that being lefty is a big asset.

    That said, I am only telling you what the general perception of people around baseball – not yankee fans.

    Despite the fact that lester was lefty he was considered a top 20-25 prospect.

    Despite hughes being righty he was considered a top 3 or top 5 prospect.

    Top 3 prospect is much better than a top 25 prospect.

    Right now Joba Chamberlain is considered a top 10 prospect. He is considered to be a much better prospect than several lefty pitchers like the Rays Jacop McGee.

  440. mel December 3rd, 2007 at 5:12 pm

    Why argue about what happened two years ago? What would the scouts say now in re: to Phil & Lester. I really don’t care, but you guys are arguing over ancient history in baseball years.

    Myself? I prefer Hughes because he’s a baby Bomber.

  441. Maverick December 3rd, 2007 at 5:12 pm

    If no trade is made one of the big 3 is getting moved. Moose can’t be traded (10/5) and they aren’t going to put him in the pen. Plus Hughes and Joba will have an innings cap in place

  442. Ice Age December 3rd, 2007 at 5:12 pm

    Yeh… don’t know how legal this all is but OK LOL, because we don’t go on the TV or radio, don’t know how thrilled WFAN and ESPN are about all that.

  443. Maverick December 3rd, 2007 at 5:13 pm

    Dang edit button, I meant moved to Scranton for awhile b/c they won’t go with a 6 man and to work around innings caps

  444. hmmm December 3rd, 2007 at 5:15 pm

    “I hate to say it, but I do think the Yanks have over- valued Melky”

    doesn’t the fact that they are trying to trade him tell you otherwise?

  445. Mike NYY- Save the Big Three December 3rd, 2007 at 5:15 pm

    If BoSox get Santana then how close will their payroll be to the Yankees in 2009 with expiring contracts. Especially if Beckett is renegotiated (don’t understand that though

  446. Maverick December 3rd, 2007 at 5:15 pm

    I’m just telling you what he said and I agree with you. I didn’t mean you were wrong but the yahoos saying he was overhyped and that he was awful was what i was trying to correct

  447. LCâ„¢ December 3rd, 2007 at 5:17 pm

    did Buster have anything good?

  448. Hoffa December 3rd, 2007 at 5:17 pm

    Mel,

    I agree with what you are saying re: Hank’s deadline. I think he saw that the Sox were trying to continue to raise the stakes in an attempt to make the Yankees give up as much as possible. A deadline puts an end to that game.

  449. Maverick December 3rd, 2007 at 5:17 pm

    I just hope they don’t keep Melky and then trade him to the Braves for a few prospects, at least until someone else is ready to come up. The talent on the FA market is overhyped and overvalued

  450. Jimmy December 3rd, 2007 at 5:18 pm

    Santana a Yankee, baby!!!

    Santana-Pettitte-Wang-Joba-Mussina/Kennedy

  451. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") December 3rd, 2007 at 5:18 pm

    I don’t give a damn what anybody saids, Action,Tabata,Kennedy, Dellin (don’t even breathe the 1st syllable), Montero all untouchable

  452. Ice Age December 3rd, 2007 at 5:19 pm

    Jimmy,

    Are you jumping the gun, or your just saying it like you are excited it could happen?

  453. ~Adam. December 3rd, 2007 at 5:19 pm

    Re: Tampering-

    A good question for Pete; Hypothetically, if Hank said something to Pete that could be considered tampering, and Pete reports it…. Does Pete hand over the tapes? Or protect his source? Does MLB need proof that Hank actually said what he said?

  454. Anthony December 3rd, 2007 at 5:20 pm

    Go4Broke- I’m not sure if I should bother responding, since it seems like everybody else let it go, but that would have been quite a turn of events if Theo had made that offer to Manny behind the Indians’ backs since he wasn’t even the Red Sox GM at the time of the deal.

    Please, let’s at least have rational criticisms of Theo & Co. God knows there is plenty of real stuff to criticize. lol Like the Drew deal, for instance.

  455. Motown Yankees Fan December 3rd, 2007 at 5:22 pm

    Rebecca – regarding your comment a while back about the teacher–no, he/she wasn’t there when I was. I’m having trouble remembering my english teachers’ names. Beardsley, Peters, Beasaw, and someone junior year whose name is escaping me.

  456. Drive 4-5 December 3rd, 2007 at 5:26 pm

    hmmm.

    Just the opposite. I think the reason they are trying to trade him is because they know he is replaceable.

    I love the energy that Melky brings to the table. I’m not bashing him. Melky is what he is… an energetic outfield with a fabulous arm but with limitations at the plate. The Yanks could do worse than .275, 25 doubles ,8-10 home runs and 12 stolen bases from their center fielder. My point is that those aren’t All Star numbers and he’s being offered for an All Star pitcher.

  457. mel December 3rd, 2007 at 5:26 pm

    ~Adam

    Someone stated that clubs are not allowed to make public comments. If Hank told Pete and he reported it even as an anonymous source, I think the team would be in trouble. Pete would not be forced to reveal (c’mon a grand jury couldn’t get the guys in the Bonds’ case to reveal their sources).

    However, if these things are leaked out like they have been then it’s probably not going to be pursued. Half the leaks aren’t true anyway.

    Pete’s news usually lags, because he seems to confirm before publishing a rumor.

  458. Rebecca--Optimist Prime December 3rd, 2007 at 5:29 pm

    Motown: I think Beardsley was still there when I was a Freshman…the name’s familiar, anyway

    Roeser was my English teacher Junior year for AP…the year was spent doing a mammoth 70 page paper, called the Roeser paper or simply ‘the paper’.

    Those that did it (rightly) thought themselves the creme de la creme

    ETC.

    I still think it’s utterly awesome we went to the same high school.

  459. blunkness December 3rd, 2007 at 5:31 pm

    New Pete post.

  460. murphydog December 3rd, 2007 at 5:33 pm

    I’m not saying I know the tampering rule, and I’m sure it’s complicated and outcomes are very fact driven. But isn’t the tampering rule designed to protect team owners from having player negotiations tainted by offers dangled directly to players without the owners’ knowledge, permission and/or a chance to counter the “secret” offer in open, arms-length negotiations?

    It seems a bit odd then to talk about tampering when the guy who owns Santana’s contract has authorized his GM to enter into face to face negotiations with a number of teams for the purpose of trading the player in question. Santana’s agent and Santana know very well who is interested in him. And as far as I can tell, all Hank has said is that he’s very interested in acquiring Santana for the right price and that he’s not going to be jerked around. Wouldn’t that be quite clear to the Twins’ owner by now, seeing as they are in the middle of a second or third week of serious negotiations over Santana? How does something that painfully obvious and innocuous give the Yankees an unfair advantage and put the Twins at a disadvantage? In other words, no blood, no foul.

  461. Dan December 3rd, 2007 at 5:34 pm

    Regarding tampering: Why isn’t it tampering for a player, such as Jorge and, I just learned, Papelbon, to say that they want Santana on their team? Isn’t the player a representative of his team? What if Hank told Jorge to hold a press conference to say, “If I were Hank, I’d give the Twins until Monday night to make up their minds.” And then Hank decided to set a deadline? You know that Jorge is stupid enough to allow someone to put him up to something like that.

  462. yankee21 December 3rd, 2007 at 5:38 pm

    thank you mdog, you have the legal expertise view,, my view was a little more common sensible- no new information by virtue of Hank comments so Twins would have a hard time justifying any damage from the public comments.

  463. Dan December 3rd, 2007 at 5:39 pm

    Is it tampering for the Twins to tell the Red Sox that the Yankees just upped their offer to include Hughes, so can you do better?

  464. raymagnetic December 3rd, 2007 at 5:39 pm

    Hunter vs. Cabrera is like Secretariat vs. a farm horse.

    I’m not saying Melky will develop into Hunter, however please look at Hunter’s first 2 years as a starter in Minny and then look at Melky’s first 2 years as a starter in NY.

    Melky, at a younger age put up better numbers than Hunter. In fact, it’s not even close.

  465. Motown Yankees Fan December 3rd, 2007 at 5:47 pm

    Rebecca – I think it’s pretty awesome too. And I’m glad to see that the younger IHHS grads are doing so well–test scores, blogging, etc.

  466. murphydog December 3rd, 2007 at 5:49 pm

    yankee21:

    You have cut to the heart of the matter. No damages.

  467. murphydog December 3rd, 2007 at 5:52 pm

    Dan:

    “Is it tampering for the Twins to tell the Red Sox that the Yankees just upped their offer to include Hughes, so can you do better?”

    No, that’s negotiating. The person to be protected is the owner with the player under contract. If Pohlad chooses to share information with other teams to improve his situation, it shouldn’t be tampering.

  468. GreenBeret7 December 3rd, 2007 at 6:05 pm

    Here’s a direct quote from Bud Selig on tampering charges filed in 2004 against…SURPRISE: George Steinbrenner on Randy Johnson, who the Yankees were not involved in direct contact with ‘Zona to acquire Johnson. Read the last paragraph quoting Selig.

    From the NY Sun and Wallace Matthews:

    Right now, the deal Steinbrenner wants to make is to bring Randy Johnson to the Yankees to shore up his tottering pitching staff, the one that even $183 million couldn’t fix.And if he has any hope of doing that, he’s going to need Bud Selig’s blessing.

    Over the past week, Steinbrenner – who abhors, rightly, the very concept of the luxury tax Selig jammed down his throat in 2002, and even retained attorney David Boies to explore the possibility of suing MLB – has been overtly jockeying to worm his way into Bud’s good graces.

    In fact, the kissy-fest has worked both ways. Two weeks ago, Steinbrenner gushed publicly about how much he would “love” to have Randy Johnson, a clear violation of baseball’s tampering rules if ever there was one. But there was Selig jumping to the Boss’s defense: “You know tampering when you see it… Believe me when I tell you, that is not tampering.”

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