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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Cashman hiding out

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Dec 04, 2007 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Through a spokesman, Brian Cashman has refused a request to speak to the media today. We’ve asked for 10 minutes, so we’ll see what happens. How did we get to the point where Hank Steinbrenner is the only person in the organization who wants to give out information?

Meanwhile. Joe Girardi just spoke to us for 25 minutes. He revealed nothing about the state of the Johan Santana talks. But he did say the Yankees would not use a six-man rotation and that the rotation as it stands today is good enough to win the World Series.

Unlike Cashman, he acknowledged that the Yankees have agreed to terms with Andy Pettitte, Alex Rodriguez and Mariano Rivera.

Meanwhile, Girardi also seems to have a bad case of Kyle Farnsworth. He said the set-up was “dominant” when he caught him with the Cubs and that he understands his personality.

Dominant? Farnsworth and Girardi were teammates from 2000-02. Farnsworth was 2-8 with a 5.16 ERA during that stretch. He allowed 208 hits and 109 walks in 205.2 innings. He did strike out 227, however.

Farnsworth may be smarter than we all think. He clearly has all these guys hypnotized.

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285 Responses to “Cashman hiding out”

  1. Fernando December 4th, 2007 at 6:37 pm

    Any Audio?

  2. Rafael December 4th, 2007 at 6:37 pm

    Willis and Cabrera to the Tigers, wow.

  3. Buddy Biancalana December 4th, 2007 at 6:39 pm

    Here’s a blockbuster, Miguel Cabrera & Willis to the Tigers

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3140668

  4. Jim PA December 4th, 2007 at 6:39 pm

    Why would Girardi make that statement about the pitching staff being championship caliber as is? Is it posturing, or are they really walking away from Santana? Curiouser and curiouser…

  5. Yankees Chick December 4th, 2007 at 6:39 pm

    Hey, if Girardi can make something remotely useful out of Farnsworthless, we can officially count him as a genius and/or miracle worker – always good to have managing our team!

  6. Buddy Biancalana December 4th, 2007 at 6:40 pm

    Wrong link:

    http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7525396

  7. Mitchell's Eleven December 4th, 2007 at 6:41 pm

    What the hell is up with baseball? These trades are making my head spin.

    The Yankees just look downright sane right now, I must say, and we’re the team that just signed a guy for 10 years and 300 million.

  8. Maverick December 4th, 2007 at 6:41 pm

    Boston Dave,

    http://www.pagesix.com/story/mets+pitcher+drag

  9. mel December 4th, 2007 at 6:43 pm

    I don’t think that it’s farfetched to say that Farnsworth will be better under Girardi. Farnsworth’s problems are between the ears and with his back. Lest we forget, Torre was not a nurturer, he was a handler. If we can get Farnsworth to pitch on back-to-back nights we’ll be set.

  10. Maverick December 4th, 2007 at 6:43 pm

    I hope they don’t panic and throw a bunch of prospects for Haren. I see Hughes being as good as Haren. I wouldn’t move him for anyone other than a true number 1 and that is a small crop of guys

  11. Frost Da Snow Man December 4th, 2007 at 6:43 pm

    Perhaps Farnsworth is being shopped around.

    Joe could be a more subtle salesperson.

  12. Bryan December 4th, 2007 at 6:44 pm

    If Girardi can get Farnsworth on track, good for him… and us. I just don’t see it happening.

  13. Drive 4-5 December 4th, 2007 at 6:45 pm

    Everyone respects what Cash has done to rebuild the farm system. But he has yet to pull off an impact trade in his tenure. Perhaps his expertise is better suited to player development. A reasonable person can argue the composition of the ’08 roster. The Giambi/Matsui/Damon logjam is a perfect example.

  14. EricVA December 4th, 2007 at 6:46 pm

    Uh, is the A-Rod trade not impact? I’d say it is.

  15. Jeremy December 4th, 2007 at 6:47 pm

    Farnsworth had one year of dominance during the 2000-02 span. In 2001 he had a 2.74 ERA (151 ERA+) and 107 Ks in 82 IP.

    His 2000 and 2002 were awful, so Girardi was clearly being selective.

    Farnsworth is absurdly erratic. His seasons have been brilliant, abysmal, and everything in between.

  16. gayle December 4th, 2007 at 6:47 pm

    Maybe Cashman is busy doing some talking thus why is not available. Kudos to the Tigers nice trade a few years from now those kids will be trade bait for someone ele as their ceiling will be too high for the Malrins to keep on the team.

    People (see previous thread) need to calm down about the trade as we dont need Miguel Cabrerra now that Arod is back and I certainly am not sold on DOntrelle Willis after being down for 2 years.

  17. RosterRooster December 4th, 2007 at 6:47 pm

    EricVA- Totally right about Wang. I want him pitching simulated games during the All Star break, and more importantly, before the playoffs, to keep his rythm going. I don’t thing its much of an issue though. 1 of the 6 will always be injured. It’ll be a 5 man rotation before long.

  18. Maverick December 4th, 2007 at 6:47 pm

    I think Moose HAS to like it or he is probably the odd man out of the 6

  19. Go NYY December 4th, 2007 at 6:47 pm

    This not only saves the young guys arms, it saves Pettitte and Moose over the long run as well. The only thing is Wang might be too strong and it could affect the sinker ball.

  20. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 6:47 pm

    Maverick,

    from the article on John Maine:

    The 26-year-old is one of the top 10 starting pitchers in the National League, earning him the nickname “The Maine Man.”

    top 10??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA

  21. stuart December 4th, 2007 at 6:48 pm

    I trade Farnsworth for almost anything.. save the $4 mill. he is a head case and young arms have just as much chance of succeeding as him…

    KEEP HUGHES

  22. Brandon T December 4th, 2007 at 6:48 pm

    With the Tigers getting Cabrera/Willis, the Angels suddenly have some plus prospects burning a hole in their pocket, and they are eyeing Santana . . . as long as Boston doesn’t get him, I like it.

  23. whozat December 4th, 2007 at 6:48 pm

    “The Giambi/Matsui/Damon logjam is a perfect example.”

    So, you’re complaining that he can’t trade a bunch of guys with no-trade clauses? Given what I see of Cash, it seems likely that those clauses were forced upon him. And we all know Giambi was a George signing. Damon may have been as well.

  24. Maverick December 4th, 2007 at 6:49 pm

    Well at least a gossip columnist thinks he’s great

  25. mel December 4th, 2007 at 6:49 pm

    Please check Farnsworth’s stats at the end of the year. I know that he was a good joke last year, but if he’s our setup guy, we need to not dump on him.

  26. Phil December 4th, 2007 at 6:49 pm

    ARod was an impact trade. So was Abreu, as it got us to the playoffs in 2006.

  27. BWH December 4th, 2007 at 6:49 pm

    So, Willis going to the Tigers with Cabrera. Does this mean the Tigers plan to flip him to another team? Is he someone that the Yankees would have any interest trading for?

    He looked downright awful last year, losing velocity, all that stuff. But he’s young – I’d take a chance if there’s some low-risk trade the Yanks can make.

  28. NYPD113th December 4th, 2007 at 6:50 pm

    Looking forward to seeing some Farnsworth domination.

  29. EricVA December 4th, 2007 at 6:50 pm

    The huge contracts with no-trade clauses are how the Yankees get free agents to sign with them. They knew when they got those players that the end of the contract would be bloated with less production. That’s the price you pay if you want someone like Giambi in his prime.

  30. Jeremy December 4th, 2007 at 6:50 pm

    “Everyone respects what Cash has done to rebuild the farm system. But he has yet to pull off an impact trade in his tenure.”

    The ARod deal is arguably one of the best in Yankee history. The Abreu deal turned out as a total win for the Yankees.

    I think you could have reconsidered before posting that comment.

  31. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 6:50 pm

    mel

    i said that last night. Farnsworth pitched much better late when he mixed in and located his slider. I still dont trust him, but he actually could be of use.

  32. the todd December 4th, 2007 at 6:51 pm

    drive 4-5 you have to remember cash didn’t get full control of the team until the 2005 season. When you look at what he has done since then, hes done a great job. Prior to that he didn’t have much to trade with, which is why he had to make all those bad trades, vazquez, johnson, etc. king george was behind most of those moves.

    Judge him for what he has done the past few years, i.e. the 2nd randy johnson trade, sheffield, and wright he has bulstered up an already good farm team.

    expect him to make more trades for bullpen arms and maybe a 1st baseman. he has tons of talent to deal if need be, for the first time in years.

  33. berra8 December 4th, 2007 at 6:51 pm

    david justice was an impact trade as well. it is far more accurate to say he has not traded for an impact pitcher in his tenure, nor has he improved the bullpen AT ALL.

  34. Shamus December 4th, 2007 at 6:51 pm

    Yeah, Kyle’s a headcase, but in a brawl, even if you start it and your on the bottom of the pile, Krazy Kyle’s got your back, while Jeter and A-Rod man-hug each other by the dugout.

    Kyle’s a fighter, like Girardi…

  35. Shamus December 4th, 2007 at 6:52 pm

    What am I watching now, Boston dave?

  36. SavePhilHughes December 4th, 2007 at 6:52 pm

    If Girardi can fix Farnsworth, that qualifies as a miracle. Right?

  37. Mo December 4th, 2007 at 6:52 pm

    Tigers came from nowhere on Cabrera. Who knows, a mystery team can show up on Santana.

  38. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 6:53 pm

    Do the Tigers have a single worthwhile prospect left?

    They better hope they win it all now because they might be a bad team in 5 years.

  39. Go NYY December 4th, 2007 at 6:53 pm

    Shamus- This is baseball, not the UFC. He might be a better UFC fighter than setup man.

  40. berra8 December 4th, 2007 at 6:53 pm

    we definitely have the bullpen most capable of kicking ass: farnsworth, britton, albaladejo, bruney, joba (when he was in), and i feel like mo definitely fights dirty too.

  41. CaptainsCorner December 4th, 2007 at 6:54 pm

    The Angels would not trade the prospects that it would take to get Santana and then pay him $25m a year. They are too cheap to do both. What is Girardi supposed to say no this team stinks, we will come in 2nd place and win 80 games. Also Farnsworth is a piece of ######.

  42. Shamus December 4th, 2007 at 6:54 pm

    Boston Dave
    December 4th, 2007 at 6:46 pm
    Shamus – it was not on the show you said it was.

    Um, yes, it was. Wjat freaking show are you watching?

  43. Boogie Down December 4th, 2007 at 6:54 pm

    From the Willis-Cabrera link:

    The Royals continue to be active on the free-agent market, contacting the agent for lefty reliever Ron Mahay shortly after reaching terms with outfielder Jose Guillen on Monday night. Mahay, 36, is also drawing interest from the Yankees, Giants and Astros. The chances that the Yankees sign Mahay would increase if they fail to land Johan Santana and decide to fortify their bullpen. The Royals currently have three left-handed relievers, but could trade Jimmy Gobble.

  44. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 6:54 pm

    Shamus, youre not watching anything about a Sox trade. they’re talking football. give it up dude.

  45. theyanksarescrewed December 4th, 2007 at 6:55 pm

    I wanted Girardi to get the job, but that bullcrap that came from him is disgusting. The Yanks shouldn’t even be mentioned in the same sentence as the World Series.

    And for you guys with the mancrush on Phil Hughes…the guy can’t even take the pressure of pitching in Yankee Stadium. Odds are that he will never come close to being as good as Santana. And Melky is just a glorified fourth outfielder. He can’t hit and can’t draw walks. Why do so many fans overvalue the team’s prospects?

    Keep hiding out, Cashman, you coward. Maybe he can pull off another blockbuster by getting another fat reliever.

  46. Go NYY December 4th, 2007 at 6:55 pm

    “Do the Tigers have a single worthwhile prospect left?

    They better hope they win it all now because they might be a bad team in 5 years.”

    I dont think so. They do have great young pitchers and I think the stadium could help Willis. On the other hand, Miguel Cabrera could lose a bunch of homers in that place.

  47. timo December 4th, 2007 at 6:55 pm

    Bergen Record Mets blog says Maine story not true. But don’t let that stop you since, after all, he is a Met.

    http://njmg.typepad.com/metsblog/

  48. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 6:56 pm

    The Royals are amazing… they have very limited finances yet they make the WORST signings in the league.

    Jose Guillen??? Nobody really wants that guy. He used PED’s and is a headcase. Nice going giving him 25% of your payroll KC.

  49. Maverick December 4th, 2007 at 6:57 pm

    timo,

    i have no idea if its true. just found it funny. there was a doctored picture of him in a dress. whether its true or not i’ll always think less of the guy now

  50. EricVA December 4th, 2007 at 6:57 pm

    Well “theyanksarescrewed”
    Although obviously a troll, you are right in one respect…Melky is not an All-Star like some of you make him out to be. But hopefully another team will think so, or Tabata or Jackson will be better.

    By the way, notice how no teams are really interested in Melky in a trade?

  51. Peter Abraham December 4th, 2007 at 6:57 pm

    My mistake, sorry, he said they would not use a six-man rotation. Not use.

  52. Maverick December 4th, 2007 at 6:57 pm

    Boston Dave,

    GOod point. I got a laugh out of that one

  53. EY December 4th, 2007 at 6:57 pm

    So Tigers get Miggy and Willis. Time to Angels to concentrate on the other big name…like Johan Santana. At least drive the price up for Boston.

    We got more important things to focus on, like fix the bullpen – here’s hoping that Giradi will work miracles with Krazy Kyle.

  54. berra8 December 4th, 2007 at 6:57 pm

    “the guy can’t even handle the pressure of pitching in Yankee Stadium.”

    where the hell were you during game 3 of the playoffs this year?

  55. Boogie Down December 4th, 2007 at 6:58 pm

    Well, lets hope the Royals sign Mahay. I dont like what I see…..and it sounds like the Yanks are taking a look.

  56. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 6:58 pm

    I cant see Moose NOT being one of them. that means IPK is in the pen or AAA to start the season.

  57. EricVA December 4th, 2007 at 6:58 pm

    Wow, that got out of hand quickly…

    Everybody change their opinions now!

  58. Doreen December 4th, 2007 at 6:58 pm

    Pete -

    It’s those little words….

  59. berra8 December 4th, 2007 at 6:58 pm

    ouch, peter. ouch.

  60. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 6:58 pm

    Boogie Down – I agree but the other lefty options are VERY limited. tough call. i dont expect him to be that great either.

  61. berra8 December 4th, 2007 at 6:58 pm

    i thought the six man would be a great idea. save the kids’ arms. frowny face.

  62. Go NYY December 4th, 2007 at 6:59 pm

    yanksarescrewed-”And for you guys with the mancrush on Phil Hughes…the guy can’t even take the pressure of pitching in Yankee Stadium.”

    I seem to remember a playoff game when he came in relief of the model Rocket and pitched extremely well, blowing guys away helping to extend the series. Franchise is the real deal. That appearance against Cleveland proves it. The no-hitter against Texas also proves it. Whether you believe it or not, he isnt the #1 prospect in baseball for nothing.

  63. Yankee Jay December 4th, 2007 at 6:59 pm

    the todd

    Amen brother! People need to stop freaking out and look at the big picture. Flaming out in the first round while losing talent doesn’t do much for me as a fan.

  64. Maverick December 4th, 2007 at 6:59 pm

    Amazing how ONE word can change a whole article/argument

  65. rb15 December 4th, 2007 at 6:59 pm

    Oh. So no six-man?

    Who goes down? I say Kennedy, although I would *love* it if the Yankees sent Mussina down (can you imagine? That hissy fit alone would be worth his entire contract).

    Kennedy’s innings cap is higher than Joba and Phil, right? So maybe Kennedy stays in the rotation and they start either Phil or Joba at AAA?

  66. Brendon December 4th, 2007 at 6:59 pm

    If Joe can get us to the world series with that rotation compared to the tigers redsox etc. god bless you joe. amen brothaaa

  67. Save Phil Hughes December 4th, 2007 at 6:59 pm

    Farnsworth WAS dominant on the Cubs:

    http://reid.mlblogs.com/scoreb.....ght_ap.jpg

    See. THATS what he must be talking about.

  68. S.o.S.27 December 4th, 2007 at 6:59 pm

    If we were able to beat schill and Pedro. Why is everyone worried about Santana and Beckett?

    I could see if we had a crappy offense,but come on. Some of you sound like red sox whining.

    This non trade will turn out to be for the better. So Yankee fans find your stones and stop crying like byatches. We’ll be just fine.

  69. voice of reason December 4th, 2007 at 7:00 pm

    You are all hysterical
    Obviously the Yankees have to put ion a good face. What the hell do you all do for a living that you have never seen people be optimistic in the face of the sale. They have to sell the players to get the trades….
    Does anyone expect them to speak poorly of Farnsworth and then get something good for him?
    Do you expect them to say “we suck and need pitching badly/” then the prices would all go up cconsiderably. Think people…THINK!!!
    It is business.

  70. Maverick December 4th, 2007 at 7:00 pm

    Moose can’t go down

  71. Phil December 4th, 2007 at 7:00 pm

    Everyone hold on…we didn’t hear the context of the 6-man rotation. Was it:

    1 – we would use a six-man rotation, if we had to?

    or

    2 – more in the context of: we will use a six-man rotation this season?

  72. stuart December 4th, 2007 at 7:00 pm

    brain surgeons hughes and joba are not starting the season in the minors.. whoever thinks that should get lost…..

  73. Doreen December 4th, 2007 at 7:00 pm

    Repeat after me:

    You gotta play the games!

  74. EricVA December 4th, 2007 at 7:01 pm

    No way Hughes goes to AAA unless he struggles. I could see Joba starting at AAA to “regain his form as a starter”

  75. Nolan December 4th, 2007 at 7:01 pm

    The 6 man rotation won’t last. One of the starters will pitch themselves out of it in no time.

  76. EY December 4th, 2007 at 7:01 pm

    LOL Twinkies. Enjoy 3rd place for eternity.

  77. Maverick December 4th, 2007 at 7:01 pm

    SOS

    Santana&Beckett>Shill&Pedro???? I feel like its arguable who is better

  78. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 7:01 pm

    go NYY – its debatable that Hughes was ever the #1 prospect in all of baseball. many had Bailey as high or higher than him. I’m not saying he’s not or wasnt, just that there are plenty of other pitching prospects with his upside.

  79. Doreen December 4th, 2007 at 7:01 pm

    No six man rotation — Pete came back and amended his statement: Girardi said they would NOT use a 6-man rotation.

  80. Go NYY December 4th, 2007 at 7:02 pm

    The Tigers also give up 4 other players including 3 pitching prospects!! Thats alot.

  81. rb15 December 4th, 2007 at 7:02 pm

    I was kidding. (??) Hello?

    You’re right, whoever said that before, we need a sarcasm button, or emoticon.

  82. Shamus December 4th, 2007 at 7:02 pm

    Anyway, Boston Dave, I will assume that you and I live in the Norhteast, and as Yankees fans, we are used to a lot of smack talking and abuse.

    Dude, don’t bring it here. I am not a rumor monger. I, of course, care where Johan lands, and I HOPE and PRAY it is anywhere but the Sox. I have been coming to this site for a year, and I don’t start smack. I’m hear b/c aside from MLBTR.com and PSD.com, this is my favorite site. And I love listening to intelligent Yankees fans, like yourself.

    But, my fellow Yankees fan, you are wrong. The show replays at seven pm, so watch it then and we can end this silly argument. In the first segment, they go to S. McAdam at the WInter Meetings, and he states that the Lester deal, WHICH the Twins are leaning towards, consists of Lester, Masterson and Kalish (some OF prospect).

    Thats not what I’m reporting, its what McAdam said. You can see it yourself at seven pm.

  83. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 7:02 pm

    it is NOT a 6 man rotation

    read Pete’s post

  84. Go NYY December 4th, 2007 at 7:02 pm

    EricVA- Thats what Spring trianing is for.

  85. Shamus December 4th, 2007 at 7:02 pm

    ITS ON NOW !!!!

  86. JBRO December 4th, 2007 at 7:03 pm

    Yeah I couldn’t understand why people were happy about a 6 man rotation.

  87. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 7:03 pm

    Shamus

    a) you are full of crap

    b) you are not a yanks fan

    c) i am done with the discussion

  88. Shamus December 4th, 2007 at 7:03 pm

    Boston Dave ITS ON AGAIN NOW !!!

    So Go F%^* yourself!

  89. Inferno December 4th, 2007 at 7:03 pm

    pete, any chance on getting the full audio for this interview?

  90. Maverick December 4th, 2007 at 7:04 pm

    Why were the Brewers acquiring about Rolen when they have Braun who was one of the best players in the NL?

  91. mel December 4th, 2007 at 7:04 pm

    Guys,

    C’mon. There are children present.

  92. EricVA December 4th, 2007 at 7:04 pm

    Go NYY

    Yes…but they might use ST to bring him along slowly and have him up to 5 innings by the end. I’m not saying that’s what will happen, but they do have a lot of starters and somebody won’t start.

  93. S.o.S.27 December 4th, 2007 at 7:04 pm

    Schill in his prime was better than Beckett.
    Pedro was argueably one of the best ever > Santana.

  94. Doreen December 4th, 2007 at 7:05 pm

    yeah, Mel – you tell ‘em!!!!!

  95. Shamus December 4th, 2007 at 7:05 pm

    Do you not see Sean McAdam with a CSN mike in his hand right now, on Comcast Sports Mohegan Sports Tongiht?

    And PS– Slow down fella, don’t need to prove your fanhood. I liked the Yankees back before you knew who Don Mattingly was… aka the Dark Ages…

  96. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 7:05 pm

    Shamus – they are talking about the trade RUMORS…. you said they reported a DONE DEAL

    you moron

  97. A-Point December 4th, 2007 at 7:05 pm

    Apparently either Pete updated the above paragraph or it was read wrong. Either way it says that Girardi won’t – as in will not – go with a 6 man rotation. Unless they have a female they are swinging into the MLB to pitch, that means it will be a normal 5 man rotation.

  98. marc December 4th, 2007 at 7:05 pm

    Pete,
    You got it right , you said Joe G. would not use a 6man staff.

  99. The Lizard December 4th, 2007 at 7:06 pm

    The rumor mill is hearing whispers in Nashville about Brian Cashman’s seclusion being indicative of a trade possibility that could me mid to high impact in favor of the Yankees.

  100. Shamus December 4th, 2007 at 7:06 pm

    Now Gary just asked if Theo out manuevered the Yankees… Are you not seeing this interview?

  101. Maverick December 4th, 2007 at 7:06 pm

    He edited it after he posted guys, it said he would originally

  102. mel December 4th, 2007 at 7:07 pm

    Guys,

    Do you think that Moose is going to be a happy camper this year? I thought he turned a corner last year by being flexible for the team. This may be a chance for him to be semi-retired. He can work with the kids esp. Jr. Moose (Ian).

    That’s not too farfetched, right?

  103. Go NYY December 4th, 2007 at 7:07 pm

    Yo Inferno, what the heck happened last night bro?

  104. Shamus December 4th, 2007 at 7:07 pm

    No, you FP^&*(& idiot!

    I said they reported the deal centered around Lester was only:

    Lester, Masterson and Kalish…

    Now screw you. What are you, 17 years old ? Don’t mince words with me? I thought we were all for the same cause on this site….

  105. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 7:07 pm

    Shamus – I see it

    You said DONE DEAL and “Yankee Fans put on your diapers”. They are talking about the proposed deal. big difference.

    you are a tool

  106. John December 4th, 2007 at 7:07 pm

    So Girardi said the team as currently constructed can win the World Series.

    Looks like we have another Clueless Joe….

  107. rb15 December 4th, 2007 at 7:08 pm

    Easy Shamus, it’s Ok. As we both know, the Boston media tends to be a little homerish. Either way, it’s no big deal. I think you’re a great poster.

    I know, Cash is being quiet… too quiet. I feel like something’s in the works.

  108. Maverick December 4th, 2007 at 7:08 pm

    You guys know you are fighting about a TV show right?

  109. Dan December 4th, 2007 at 7:08 pm

    Lizard,

    where did you hear/read that?

  110. Brendon December 4th, 2007 at 7:08 pm

    Cashman is a big wossy. If he were a man, he would be dealing right now like the Tigers, TRYING TO IMPROVE THE TEAM. Key word, improve the team. instead, he hides out from the media because he is scared of them.

  111. Doreen December 4th, 2007 at 7:08 pm

    Hey, Pete has an edit button — why don’t we???

  112. Shamus December 4th, 2007 at 7:09 pm

    The whole point, before Boston Dave went crazy on me, was that IF the deal to go down IS Lester, Masterson and Kalish.. the Twins are getting screwed…

  113. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 7:09 pm

    Shamus – if i misinterpreted i apologize but you made it sound like

    “put on your diapers yankee fans the deal is done”

  114. Mike December 4th, 2007 at 7:10 pm

    “So Girardi said the team as currently constructed can win the World Series.

    Looks like we have another Clueless Joe….”

    __

    Except last time we had a “Clueless Joe”, we won 4 out of 5 World Series titles.

  115. rb15 December 4th, 2007 at 7:10 pm

    Shamus, even if the deal is Lester, Masterson, Kalish, Crisp, and everybody else not named Ellsbury AND Buckholz, the Twins are getting screwed. Which is why they’ll suck, like they have since pretty much 1991.

  116. Maverick December 4th, 2007 at 7:10 pm

    There is no way that is the deal. Most people at the WM are reporting its a 5 player deal. Why would they now take 3?

  117. Ethan December 4th, 2007 at 7:10 pm

    Minnesota is going to have an awful record next season. That’s one thing I’m pretty sure about–with the Tigers and Indians in their division.

    We’ll see how Lester does against Miguel Cabrera.

  118. marc December 4th, 2007 at 7:11 pm

    Are you guys serious? Because we don’t get santan, cabrera or willis we are no longer even a playoff contender? With any luck we go to the WS last year and we are returning the same team that won 70% of its games in the 2nd half. Give me a break!

  119. Marcy December 4th, 2007 at 7:11 pm

    Sorry to be negative re: Farnsworth but he was a mess long before we acquired him and by most appearances last season, he is not a changed man. I’ve heard Girardi believes he’ll be able to straighten Farnsworth out but I don’t know why he thinks that since he couldn’t do it while they were on the Cubs, and Farnsworth had more problems when he went to the Braves. Every time I want to believe in Cashman and now Girardi, they say something like this that makes me want to heave. Check out Farnsworth’s attitude, partying, and extra-curricula history. They need to make a Mota like trade for Farnsworth – it doesn’t matter for who – just get him off the team and payroll!

  120. stuart December 4th, 2007 at 7:12 pm

    shamus is right about what he saw on TV.. the announcers also said if Minny did it the sux would have stolen santana and they should go to smiths room now to sign on the dotted line..

    I also will be befuddled if Minny did this trade for masterson, lester, and kalish!!!!!!!

    No firigin way..

  121. nate c. December 4th, 2007 at 7:12 pm

    Brendon
    December 4th, 2007 at 7:08 pm
    Cashman is a big wossy. If he were a man, he would be dealing right now like the Tigers, TRYING TO IMPROVE THE TEAM. Key word, improve the team. instead, he hides out from the media because he is scared of them.

    Brendon: Do you know anything about Cashman? Seriously. Have you been watching the way he does business the past 11 years?? The guy has a reason for everything.

  122. Shamus December 4th, 2007 at 7:12 pm

    Dave.

    Lets not resort to name calling. Don’t know your status, but I’m too old for internet ‘beefs’ as these kids these days say.

    I said ‘diapers’, not b/c we (YANKEES FANS, LIKE YOU AND ME) would be crying, but b/c we would be, ahem, pooping, if the Twins picked a package of Lester, Masterson and some no-name OF over OUR offers…

    You misinterpreted what I was saying. Was trying to type as they talked.

    And I apologize if I was rude. Water under the bridge…

    I’d say ten minutes ago was the time to move on.

  123. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 7:12 pm

    dont you think the Twins will take a little more time now that the Angels might be involved? The Dodgers wanted Cabrera as well… they may get involved.

    Why rush and take a marginal offer from Boston? The Sox arent going to rescind that offer.

  124. rb15 December 4th, 2007 at 7:12 pm

    “Every time I want to believe in Cashman and now Girardi, they say something like this that makes me want to heave. ”

    Marcy, I think you just had the post of the day. LOL. :)

  125. EricVA December 4th, 2007 at 7:12 pm

    who is Kalish?

  126. berra8 December 4th, 2007 at 7:12 pm

    why would we wear diapers anyway?

  127. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 7:13 pm

    Shamus – I am sorry as well. Got carried away because I took it the wrong way. I am a little testy during these ‘chaotic times’…

  128. A-Point December 4th, 2007 at 7:15 pm

    How about we wait and see what actually is happening instead of flying on every single rumor out there?

    Sure, this stuff is exciting, but its not worth getting all worked up over.

    One thing to think about. Most of the big deals are the ones that seem to come out of left field. Hunter being signed with the Angels? Who saw that coming? The deal with the Fish and the Tiggers, another that was under the radar, while it was being talked up that the Angels were close and near.

    Cashman not being available right now can mean a lot of different things. A deal being talked, dinner, a movie, a romantic fling… anything. Cashman doesn’t seem to like being out front all that much, and when he is he doesn’t really say much other than vague statements.

  129. Maverick December 4th, 2007 at 7:16 pm

    What ever happened to Andy Marte? He was a top ranked prospect not to long ago?

  130. SJ44 December 4th, 2007 at 7:16 pm

    I would say Arod and Abreu were “impact” trades.

    Phil Hughes can’t pitch at Yankee Stadium? Only pitched great in the biggest game of the year for the Yankees (at the time) in the ALDS. In his first ever relief role.

    But, hell what do I know. You have already decided a 21 year old pitcher “can’t pitch in Yankee Stadium”.

    With such astute scouting skills, perhaps you should send your resume to every ML team. They could use someone with your skills.

  131. Drive 4-5 December 4th, 2007 at 7:16 pm

    Here’s hoping Pete’s next mispeak is “Yanks lose Santana to Sox” ooops “Sox lose Santana to Yanks” lol

  132. Shamus December 4th, 2007 at 7:17 pm

    NO !

    The diapers are for the deuce deuce I just dropped in my drawers hearing that NEITHER Crap-Crap Crisp OR Jacoby Ellsbury, much less Laptop Goodfella was inviolved in the deal !

    If the Twins are sending Johan for Lester, Masterson and no-namer… I’d be stunned.

    Nothing but love Boston Dave… Like I said, I feel the pain, being a Bomber fan, living north of the Hartford, Ct. Line and west of Burligton, Vt. Line.

    And whats funny, the show we were arguing about? I HATE THEM !!! I hate Dickerson, Felger, and Tanguay worse than Dana Jacobsen wearing tight clothes on First Pizza Cold Take !!! So ironic, I’m trying to report facts from a show I hate (Mo Sports tonight) about a team I hate (the Sux) and I’m being dissed by fellow Striper fans!

    Someone pinch me and awaken me from this nightmare !

  133. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 7:17 pm

    Maverick,

    I guess not every top prospect becomes a superstar :)

    he is still a good prospect though…

  134. NYPD113th December 4th, 2007 at 7:17 pm

    “now that the Angels might be involved”

    - Is everyone just assuming LA will get involved or just hoping? Has anyone read anything to indicate this?

  135. Jerkface December 4th, 2007 at 7:17 pm

    Investigators will find out 10 years from now that Farnsworth’s glasses are actually hypno-specs

  136. rb15 December 4th, 2007 at 7:17 pm

    Mav, Marte’s been dissppointing since he was traded to Cleveland. I think he’s floundering around in AAA right now.

  137. Michael T December 4th, 2007 at 7:18 pm

    According to Peter Gammons, the Tigers are getting Cabrera and Dontrelle by giving up some big time young cheap talent. Maybe the Angels will go more aggressively after Santana now that their top bat is off the market.

    6:20 p.m., from Peter Gammons
    • The Tigers have won the Miguel Cabrera sweepstakes. Detroit will get Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis from Florida for six players — Cameron Maybin, Andrew Miller, catcher Mike Rabelo and three minor league prospects.

  138. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 7:18 pm

    Shamus – thats one of the reasons i assumed you were a troll!! how could a yanks fan suffer through that show? :)

  139. mel December 4th, 2007 at 7:18 pm

    Shamus,

    I don’t live in New England, but I feel like I’m watching along with you!

  140. NYPD113th December 4th, 2007 at 7:19 pm

    Angels GM Tony Reagins acknowledged speaking to the Twins on Monday night, but he said it was about an outfielder and no further talks were scheduled.

    The Twins might have been asking about Juan Rivera or Reggie Willits. “We haven’t had any discussions about adding starting pitching,” Reagins said Tuesday. “The rumors are out there, I know that, but it’s rumor. I’ve been watching ESPN, seeing things that are being reported, and you just wonder where it comes from sometimes.” ESPN is still guessing that the Angels will be involved with Santana after losing out on Miguel Cabrera, but neither the Angels nor Twins have done anything to back it up.
    Source: Los Angeles Times

  141. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 7:19 pm

    rb15 – let this be a lesson to all of us… some prospects fail. even the top ones. i dont think hughes is one of them… but the other guys like AJax etc…. you just never know.

  142. Maverick December 4th, 2007 at 7:19 pm

    I was just wondering where he was. I tried to search for him but didn’t know what team he ended up on.

  143. Brendon December 4th, 2007 at 7:19 pm

    nate c.
    December 4th, 2007 at 7:12 pm
    Brendon
    December 4th, 2007 at 7:08 pm
    Cashman is a big wossy. If he were a man, he would be dealing right now like the Tigers, TRYING TO IMPROVE THE TEAM. Key word, improve the team. instead, he hides out from the media because he is scared of them.

    Brendon: Do you know anything about Cashman? Seriously. Have you been watching the way he does business the past 11 years?? The guy has a reason for everything.

    Nate…lets see what he has done, we haven’t won the world series in 7 years, he finally saves young pitching than is reluctant to give alan horne up a pitcher who won’t be phil hughes,. what else has he done? traded for Randy Johnson bull. oh yeah and that guy carl pavano? suppousdly the best pitcher? why don’t you do some stupid research cashman. waste of money. 200m payroll for nothing.

    Nate, if your ok with not winning world series, good for you, keep preaching.

  144. Drive 4-5 December 4th, 2007 at 7:20 pm

    Sorry SJ44 and EricVA

    When I made my comments about Cash’s trades I forgot ARod. My bad. Chalk it up to being sick of the thought of going to work tomorrow (I live in Mass.) and having to listen to a bunch of obnoxious Sox fans gloat about getting Santana.

  145. Shamus December 4th, 2007 at 7:20 pm

    So ironic, I’m trying to report *facts* from a show I hate (Mo Sports tonight) about a team I hate (the Sux) and I’m being dissed by fellow Striper fans!

    I meant rumors… They are still all rumors.

    But if the Twins are hot for Lester, Masterson and no-name OF, then can’t the Yankees match up with Hughes, Horne and Melky… Or keep Melky and stick Tabata in?

    Or is that too much?

  146. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 7:20 pm

    p.s. marte is still young

  147. marc December 4th, 2007 at 7:20 pm

    It;s funny ,Gammons said there was no way that deal goes through about 15 minutes earlier.

  148. A-Point December 4th, 2007 at 7:20 pm

    Most deals that happen are done fairly quietly. Those that have the most flurry going on around them are suddenly swept to the side and another team is talked about having the deal set.

  149. Nick in SF December 4th, 2007 at 7:21 pm

    This is nothing but PURE FANTASY, but what is the Twins and the Red Sox finally reach an actual deal and then Santana, for whatever reason, doesn’t like the Sox’ contract offer and they can’t come to an agreement? I honestly have a hard time believing that Boston will pay what the Yanks will pay, and I also have a hard time believing that Santana and his agent won’t think so as well. Santana could say thanks but no thanks to the Sox.

    Of course it would be a huge gamble on his part, he would be risking the Twins and Yanks still not making a trade and then pitching 2008 in Minny with risk of injury/decline hurting his eventual payday. But does anyone think this scenario is realistic in any way (forget likely)?

  150. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 7:21 pm

    shamus, half of the posters here think Hughes alone is too much

  151. Todd December 4th, 2007 at 7:21 pm

    pretty soon Twins will be taking Coco straight up for Santana, if this trend continues

  152. coney12 December 4th, 2007 at 7:21 pm

    Tim Kurjian on ESPN just said that he thinks the Yanks will add Ian Kennedy into the deal.

  153. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 7:22 pm

    Nick in SF

    the Sox know what it will take to sign Santana. Unless they aer bluffing, I’m sure they know the contract is going to be in the range of 6/120-150

  154. NYPD113th December 4th, 2007 at 7:22 pm

    “Santana could say thanks but no thanks to the Sox”

    If he wants his best chance to win a ring, he’ll just say yes.

  155. Maverick December 4th, 2007 at 7:22 pm

    Can you guys drop the Gammons thing? Yeah you think he favors the Red Sox, WHO REALLY CARES. He isn’t really doing any harm. Who really cares if an old dude at ESPN likes the Red Sox. Is he supposed to act like he hates everyone. So he thinks the Red Sox have made good deals. They did win the WS 2 of 4 years. Maybe he has a point and knows what he is talking about. Geez, drop it

  156. mel December 4th, 2007 at 7:22 pm

    coney12,

    In the words of the great Brian Fellows, “That’s Crazy!”

  157. Shamus December 4th, 2007 at 7:23 pm

    “Angels GM Tony Reagins acknowledged speaking to the Twins on Monday night, but he said it was about an outfielder and no further talks were scheduled.”

    Yeah, Reagins probably said, “Hey, I just swooped in and swept away your best outfielder with mucho dinero. Didn’t see that coming did ya?”

  158. rb15 December 4th, 2007 at 7:23 pm

    Of course some prospects fail. I just don’t think the trinity (if they’re still prospects) will. In terms of Jackson, the Yankees don’t have anyone else besides Gardner coming up, and Jackson’s skills are better (although I think Gardner’s closer to coming up – he’s in AAA, if I remember correctly). It’s crazy to trade prospects with high ceilings (albeit risky ones) that you can only replace with aging high-priced free agents that know that the Yankees are desperate, and know that the Yankees can pay them whatever they ask for. We’ve been doing that for too long, and it’s gotten us literally nothing. We need to have the faith in our prospects that everyone else seems to have – if they were no good, then why would anybody want them in a trade for their ace pitcher?

  159. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 7:23 pm

    coney – link? or on tv?

    I like Kurkjian and respect him more than most of the other ESPN guys

  160. Kill-Schill(ing) December 4th, 2007 at 7:23 pm

    Hey, SJ44, do you read the Yankees Republic? ALways a great read.

    He has an interesting post to my friend Keith Law– sarcasm, I hate the dude– appraisal of Hughes.
    http://myespn.go.com/s/convers.....ry/3007436

    Apparently, Law doesn’t think much of Hughes. Says he’s no better than #2 starter because he only has two pitches, a fastball that’s straight, and a mediocre curve. His changeup, Law claims, is still undeveloped.

    My greatest fear is that we’ve overrated this guy. When Cashman says “I’ve grown attached” to the prospects, I begin to wonder whether he can see his young pitchers objectively and hasn’t indeed overvalued their potential.

  161. marc December 4th, 2007 at 7:24 pm

    That could happen yet. After all is said and done hughes and kennedy for santana. How would that sit?

  162. migames December 4th, 2007 at 7:25 pm

    kurkjain said that you can call him naive, but he doesnt think the yankee are out of it and if they have to include kennedy, they should…he didnt state this as fact….

  163. mel December 4th, 2007 at 7:25 pm

    coney,

    btw, how high was Tim’s voice? It’s usually an indication of accuracy.

  164. Maverick December 4th, 2007 at 7:25 pm

    I was just looking at the top prospects from 2006 and seeing how they turned out and not many really failed. Check it out

    http://www.minorleaguebaseball.....?content=1

  165. Drive 4-5 December 4th, 2007 at 7:25 pm

    Action Jackson had better be the next Willie McGhee or there’s a lot of folks here gonna look pretty silly.

  166. whozat December 4th, 2007 at 7:25 pm

    “But if the Twins are hot for Lester, Masterson and no-name OF, then can’t the Yankees match up with Hughes, Horne and Melky… Or keep Melky and stick Tabata in?”

    Why should they have to? If the Twins are liking an offer that’s already inferior to what the Yanks have on the table (Masterson is certainly not as good as Horne)…why do they Yankees need to upgrade? Their offer is already better. At that point, they’re just getting played.

  167. Shamus December 4th, 2007 at 7:25 pm

    Boston Dave–

    Do you think Hughes is too much?

    Here’s a stat from my industry:

    For every 10 restaurants that open, 8 close in one year.

    *You eat what we want you to eat.

    *had to poke fun at a BobCat line there….

  168. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 7:26 pm

    rb15, there are a TON of CF’s available this offseason and they are not all high priced and/or aging. mike cameron? or use damon for 1 season and re-evaluate next offseason when there are another slew of CF options.

    i know im in the vast minority, but IF adding Ajax were enough to get it done and get the best pitcher in baseball, I’d do it. I think the Twins wanted AJax AND Horne which is not good.

  169. UtilityMan December 4th, 2007 at 7:26 pm

    Marte would be nice…..

    Kalish is an OF with Boston

    Now hearing a 5 for 1 deal is in place

  170. A-Point December 4th, 2007 at 7:26 pm

    When a “reporter” is the running to be the head of the Red Sox Nation, then there really is a problem. ESPN also has the Sports Guy who is a tool for the RS. That is the problem.

  171. The Dude December 4th, 2007 at 7:26 pm

    Assuming Santana falls through, I wouldn’t be surprised if Cabrera is dealt for bullpen help. Perhaps they revisit a deal for Demaso Marte? I think there were some rumblings about that before last season. Pitt is looking for a CF and Marte is available.

  172. iYankees December 4th, 2007 at 7:27 pm

    Sorry to break it to everyone, but it seems as though a Twins-Red Sox deal has been reached and a framework completed. I don’t know how reliable this information is, in particular. But I did hear it over at MVN, for what it’s worth.

    thebronxzoo.wordpress.com

  173. Bronx Bomber December 4th, 2007 at 7:27 pm

    farnsworth is the one being hypnotized…by girardi’s “confidence” in him….not vice versa.

  174. dontfirecash (though if he trades Phil, I might reconsider) December 4th, 2007 at 7:27 pm

    mel,
    How about our Rainbow Warriors? Beat Georgia is all I can say(should be a great game). Anyways, as much as he sucked the previous two seasons, I like Kyle Farnsworth as well. I guess I’m just a sucker for the 100mph fastball.

  175. Chicago Dave December 4th, 2007 at 7:27 pm

    Now that the Angels have lost out on Cabrera, perhaps they go harder after Santana. That is, if Moreno still wants to make that “big splash” he’s been talking about forever.

  176. Dave December 4th, 2007 at 7:27 pm

    Johan Santana to the Red Sox is all but done. Jon Lester, a center fielder, Justin Masterson and Ryan Kalish are the package. More details now.- Will Carrol

    That offer is better than Hughes, Cabrera, Marquez and Alberto Gonzalez, How do the twins possibly think that?

    Lester
    Majors: 144 innings, 4.68 era, 1.57 whip, 110 k’s
    Minors: 483 innings, 3.33 era, 1.31 whip, 446 k’s

    Hughes
    Majors: 72 innings, 4.46 era, 1.28 whip, 58 k’s
    Minors: 275 innings, 2.03 era, 0.86 whip, 311 k’s

    Hughes has Lester beat in era, whip and k/9 in the majors and minors.

    Masterson has pitched in A and AA FOR 185 innings with a 3.7 era, 148 ks and a 1.16 whip. Marquez in A and AA for 458 innings with 3.4 era, 345 ks and a 1.38 whip. So marquez has a better era, about equal strike out ratio and masterson has better whip. Masterson seems slightly better.

    Kalish hit 317 in low A ball with a 406 obp and no power. Gonzalez in AA hit 330 with a 383 obp some speed and no power. Gonzalez def has the edge because he hit better in a harder league and is clearly better defensively since he is known for his defense.

    Melky put up a better avg, obp than coco with less speed and is making 9 million over the next two yrs less than coco. So if crisp is the centerfielder, melky has the edge esp considering the twins are a very cheap franchise.

    So with Lester not even competition with hughes, Gonzalez edging Kalish and Melky better and cheaper than crisp, the only sock who is better than the comparable yankees prospect is Masterson who is obviously better than marquez but not even close to the amount that hughes is better than lester. And the centerpiece of the deal should really be the deal maker. What the hell are the twins thinking?

  177. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 7:27 pm

    Shamus,

    No No… quite the opposite. I would trade Hughes, Melky, AJax right now for Santana. I may get blasted for that opinion.

    I would rather have a sure thing than a maybe when the sure thing is the best pitcher in baseball. (and i know nothing is 100% certain, but santana is as close as you get when it comes to #1 starters)

  178. Mark December 4th, 2007 at 7:27 pm

    Kill-Schill(ing)- I’m going to take the word of the gm of the Yankees over Keith Law any day. I mean the guy works for espn, and still can’t get a good job in baseball. Same with Steve Phillips when he says things.

  179. UtilityMan December 4th, 2007 at 7:28 pm

    I certainly would not give the Twins Hughes,Cabrera,Horne and A-Jax…that is way to much….

    Hughes,Melky,Marquez,A.Gonzalez OK

  180. whozat December 4th, 2007 at 7:28 pm

    “That could happen yet. After all is said and done hughes and kennedy for santana. How would that sit?”

    Poorly. I think Hughes will be a #1 in the not too distant future, and Kennedy a #3. Why? The polish and control. There are a gajillion high rated guys that get touted because of “stuff”. They never learn to control it, and then flame out. Kennedy and Hughes do not have that problem. They are both very polished pitchers.

    If you’re taking someone I think will be an ace in a year, I’m not giving you a guy I think will be a #3 in a year. Not if the deal I’m up against is a #3 (if he figures out his control!), a slap hitting CFer, and some spare parts.

  181. marc December 4th, 2007 at 7:28 pm

    Santana,Joba,Pettitte,Wang, Mussina or
    Wang, Pettitte,Joba,Hughes, Kennedy
    which sounds better?

  182. Maverick December 4th, 2007 at 7:28 pm

    A-Point,

    Why can’t they have a favorite team? Do they have to check there bags at the door? No they are hired to produce news and speculate. They can be wrong all they want as long as viewers are tuning in to hear what they have to say. If they are wrong 8 out of ten times people are still going to tune in to see what they have to say. Stop watching if you can’t handle it

  183. Dave December 4th, 2007 at 7:29 pm

    Twins, please make sure you dont let the facts interfere with your opinions. That may actually make you do something rational like realize the yankees have the better offer yet, for some reason the sox have the edge.

  184. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 7:29 pm

    has anyone been on the Twins blogs in the past few hours?

    im curious if adding Kalish is making them feel any better :)

  185. dontfirecash (though if he trades Phil, I might reconsider) December 4th, 2007 at 7:29 pm

    Drive 4-5,
    What are you talking about? Jackson projects as an all star, a 30-30 threat. With an aging outfield, I completely understand why the Yanks would not trade him(even for the best pitcher in the game).

  186. mel December 4th, 2007 at 7:29 pm

    dontfirecash,

    Yeah, how ’bout them Warriors? The last game was really good. Georgia thinks they should be in the title game so I hope they have their guard down. New Years Day 8:30 EST. Hee Haw!

  187. Shamus December 4th, 2007 at 7:29 pm

    I love the idea of growing talent from within, especially for pitching…

    But for the best pitcher in baseball– in his prime?

    I was on the fence for a while… I thought that NO WAY should be the answer for any inquiries involving Cano and Joba… Maybe Phil, definately Melky, IPK, Horne, whomever in the right deal, as long as it was three for one, not 4 or 5 for 1…

    Don’t know why I value Joba higher than Phil, maybe b/c of marketing potential, I dunno, electricity, raw stuff? I just don’t know…

    But I say if they’ve already offered Phil Hughes, and Melky, do you really think IPK or Horne will stop (as Sherman called him this morning) ‘Yammerin’ Hank’ (great line) from getting his man…

  188. Maverick December 4th, 2007 at 7:30 pm

    Dave,

    Bill Smith obviously disagrees and I would say his opinion is a lot more informed than you, but when you get a GM job I’ll listen to you

  189. rb15 December 4th, 2007 at 7:30 pm

    To clarify, I was talking about Andy Marte before, not Demaso.

    I think that if the Yankees added someone else to the deal, the Twins would have them over a barrel. The Twins would go right back to the Sox. There’s a point where negotiations turn into getting played. I don’t know if Jackson will be any good, but I know that eventually, the Yankees need to just stand their ground (against an inferior Sox offer) and let the chips fall. If they don’t, they’ll get played over and over again. If this is the trade where the Yanks stand firm, I’m OK with that – the earlier the better, in my opinion.

  190. Buddy Biancalana December 4th, 2007 at 7:31 pm

    If Boston does get Johan, big deal, Yanks will feast on him like they did with Pedro “The Yankees are my Daddy” Martinez.

  191. UtilityMan December 4th, 2007 at 7:31 pm

    So much for the Angels helping out…Thanks Arte!!!

  192. mel December 4th, 2007 at 7:32 pm

    Buddy,

    Those were good times. lol.

  193. marc December 4th, 2007 at 7:32 pm

    whozat it just goes against our win now philosophy which has worked well for us forever.

  194. Chicago Dave December 4th, 2007 at 7:32 pm

    So, now that Santana has been traded to the Sox, what relievers are we going to target?

  195. pat December 4th, 2007 at 7:32 pm

    Per Olney on ESPN radio, Hank STeinbrenner has told the NYT that the Yankees are out of the Santana discussions. Is it more official now that Hank has said it?

  196. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 7:33 pm

    The Twins obviously value Lester more than we do. That said, their Lester + 4 is more valuable than Hughes plus 2.

    If the Yanks dont want to give up IPK, Ajax, Horne, they at least would need to match the quantity of the Sox (a couple more lower graded guys) in order to get something done (if they even care to)

  197. whozat December 4th, 2007 at 7:34 pm

    “Jackson projects as an all star, a 30-30 threat. ”

    that I’m not convinced of either. He’s toolsy, and he had a breakout season, but until he shows it at AA, I’m not going to be projecting him like that. That said, I’m not sending both my young current CFer and the next guy on my depth chart at that position in the same deal. ESPECIALLY not when I’m up against an offer that’s inferior than what I’ve already put on the table.

  198. Dave December 4th, 2007 at 7:34 pm

    marc,

    In the second one u put wang as the ace. In the first, he is third. If Joba is above him in the first, why wouldnt he be the ace in the second. I think Santana, Joba, Wang, Pettitte, Moose is the better rotation. Its strange tho that Hughes may turn into the ace and santana (the would be ace replaces him) and Kennedy is supposed to be similar to Moose and would be replacing him in the rotation most likely if we keep the three young ones. I dont think its really whether we are a better team with Santana – i think its more that the sux are a worse team without santana. I cant believe all they have to give up thats worth anything is lester who may be a third starter while for some ridiculous reason, we have to give up hughes and Kennedy who may be an ace and second or third starter. Frankly, I think kennedy is better than Lester and so do many scouts. Kennedy also has better numbers than lester in the minors and majors.

  199. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 7:34 pm

    Buddy, dont hold your breath on that one… i hope you’re right though

  200. berra8 December 4th, 2007 at 7:35 pm

    lester + 4 may be better, but that isn’t what is being speculated. instead, we are hearing lester, masterson, unnamed outfielder, kalish.

    ouch. no lowrie? no ellsbury?

  201. Global Warming December 4th, 2007 at 7:36 pm

    The Angels have gotten better
    The Tigers have gotten better
    The Red Sox if Santana deal goes through, will be better

    What about the Yankees? 400+ Million spent this offseason just to bring back the same old players and have the same team in tact.

    Sure we got the “kids” starting in the rotation instead of last years Igawa/Pavano gruesome twosome but still, the Yankees are a WIN NOW team with aging(Entire lineup minus Melky,Cano) stars on the decline. Now we are going to have to deal with growing pains of multiple young pitchers, I don’t believe it.

    I do not believe the talks are dead!

    Santana a Yankee by tomorrow!

  202. Doug December 4th, 2007 at 7:36 pm

    We are out of the Santana talks, so where is Cashman. Down in Memphis touring Graceland.

  203. rodg12 December 4th, 2007 at 7:36 pm

    Mark December 4th, 2007 at 7:27 pm

    Kill-Schill(ing)- I’m going to take the word of the gm of the Yankees over Keith Law any day. I mean the guy works for espn, and still can’t get a good job in baseball. Same with Steve Phillips when he says things.

    Say what you want about Law, but please don’t say he doesn’t have a good job in baseball. He has a GREAT job in baseball. Gets to sit back for the worldwide leader, make really good money, and just analyze what everyone is doing. Paid trips to watch minor leaguers and major leaguers. Come on, that’s a DREAM job.

  204. Shamus December 4th, 2007 at 7:36 pm

    Framework Complete: Johan Santana a Red Sox
    By Evan Brunell | December 4th, 2007
    E-mail | Print | Share

    The Boston Red Sox have completed the framework of a deal with the Minnesota Twins that will send Johan Santana from the Twins to the Red Sox for Coco Crisp, Jon Lester, Justin Masterson, Jed Lowrie and Ryan Kalish.

    This information comes from KNBR via devoted Red Sox fan/MLB columnist Daniel Rathman.

    Says Rathman:

    Some details and kinks still need to be worked out, but there’s little reason to expect that this won’t get done by tonight or tomorrow morning.

    Talks with Santana’s agent about an extension could begin tomorrow. Indications are that the Sox will start with an offer of five-years, $100 million and go from there.

    Part of me is excited, part of me is not. The excited part is the one who looks at the Red Sox circa 2008-2011. The not-so-excited part looks at anything past 2011, so if the Red Sox can ink Santana to five years… then I’m wholly on board.

    I love Jon Lester and think he is another Andy Pettitte in the making, and John Farrell thinks so too. The Boston pitching coach recently told Sox brass that Lester could win 15-18 games consistently in his prime. (Source: Peter Gammons, ESPN Insider.)

    We all know about Coco Crisp and we all greatly prefer Jacoby Ellsbury instead of Crisp. Masterson is a sinkerballer who could thrive in Minnesota and Lowrie could be an All-Star infielder in a few years for the Twins. (Could.) Kalish is a top-10 Sox prospect, but is 19 years old and can’t be counted on yet.

    Santana, turning 29 on March 13, finished 2007 up with a 15-13 record, 219.0 IP, 3.33 ERA and 1.07 WHIP.

    The three years before that from 2004-6, he pitched 228.0, 231.2 and 233.2 IP respectively with ERAs also respective of 2.61, 2.88 and 2.67. In 2002 and 2003 he dominated as a swingman out of the bullpen, starting in 14 and 16 games respectively while also making appearances out of the bullpen. He made most of his appearaches out of the bullpen (and some starts) in 2000 and 2001. His career has 175 starts, 251 games, 3.22 ERA, 1308.2 IP and a 93-44 record.

    This is a deal that the Red Sox simply had to do.

    And I’m in shock. Johan Santana is, barring a complete collapse, a Red Sox.

  205. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 7:36 pm

    for those in Boston, NESN is reporting on it all right now

  206. whozat December 4th, 2007 at 7:36 pm

    “If the Yanks dont want to give up IPK, Ajax, Horne, they at least would need to match the quantity of the Sox (a couple more lower graded guys) in order to get something done (if they even care to)”

    You think they didn’t? They had about 10 different combos on the table, some around Hughes, some around Kennedy. Some had three players, some had four. If they wanted quantity, then they should have been willing to consider lower-tier guys…like they’re doing with the Sox. For some reason, they won’t do that for the Yanks.

  207. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 7:36 pm

    though i doubt they have anything to offer

  208. dontfirecash (though if he trades Phil, I might reconsider) December 4th, 2007 at 7:36 pm

    whozat,
    I definitely agree with you; I’ll be sold on AJAX when he does it in AA. However, as you said, there is no reason to trade him when you are already including your current CFer and you have an old outfield. Plus he is a legit 30-30 threat. IMO, you don’t trade players like that.

  209. A-Point December 4th, 2007 at 7:37 pm

    I think Joba has a certain something that is hard to nail down which creates this gravity field. Plus, everyone falls in love with power pitchers who burn the ball at 98 MPH.

    As to ESPN, I don’t watch it much because I am so tired of the RS slant to most things they talk about. Some of it is fine, but what they do is too far over the limit of my tolerance.

  210. Drive 4-5 December 4th, 2007 at 7:37 pm

    The Tigers made themselves a very nice trade. They gave up a terrific young player in Cameron Maybin, the kid is a sud and is their best prospect. Sometimes you have to give quality to get quality in return.

    Perhaps Brian Cashman should intern under Dave Dombrowski. Dombrowski developed some terrific players and shows that he knows how to use them to put his team over the top. What a concept,huh?

  211. migames December 4th, 2007 at 7:37 pm

    cashman was reading to his kid and fell asleep….i kid, Cashman will amaze us (again) soon enought. Just relax and wait for it…

  212. Phil December 4th, 2007 at 7:37 pm

    Austin Jackson has a lot more power than Willie McGee.

  213. mel December 4th, 2007 at 7:37 pm

    It’s fun to pull out numbers and stuff, but what matters is what happens on the field. Let the kids and their uncles (the vets) go out and play ball. The Big 3 will be motivated to prove they’re MLB-worthy. Wait…they’ve proved that already.

  214. Dave December 4th, 2007 at 7:37 pm

    Hey maverick,

    What do the scouts have to say about it? Most of them think the yanks have the better package as well. But listen to whoever u want. The stats speak for themselves- i didnt make them up.

  215. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 7:37 pm

    whozat, if thats the case… then sure. i never heard any official offers that included Hughes AND 3-4 more guys. maybe kennedy plus 3-4 but not Hughes.

  216. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 7:38 pm

    * of course nothing is “official”

  217. marc December 4th, 2007 at 7:38 pm

    dave,
    just trying to ease joba in. also like the lefty-righty thing going but could put wang in 2nd spot and joba 4th if you like it.

  218. dontfirecash (though if he trades Phil, I might reconsider) December 4th, 2007 at 7:38 pm

    I should say he has 30-30 potential; he obviously hasn’t proved much yet(other than that he can mash A+ pitching)

  219. Shamus December 4th, 2007 at 7:38 pm

    This NESN report with four eyes and the busted chick ran an hour ago… nothing new…

  220. Phil December 4th, 2007 at 7:39 pm

    Drive 4-5,

    remember the big picture, my friend. It’s gonna be okay. btw, there’s probably gonna be a hole chapter on the Tigers in the Mitchell Report, let’s see what the upshot of that is.

  221. Maverick December 4th, 2007 at 7:40 pm

    The Twins have one of the best scouting departments in baseball dude. Link to ONE scout that said that. I am not saying the Yanks don’t have a better package but the Twins usually know what they are doing with young talent as do the Marlins who make good deal after good deal and compete with a 30-60 mil dollar payroll

  222. Ray December 4th, 2007 at 7:40 pm

    The sky is not falling guys!

    Hughes lost 3 to 5 mph velocity on his fastball after his injury. That is significant. He is fully recovered now as his hamstring injuries affected the push off on the pitching motion and it is healed up now.

    He is special because he throws mid to high 90′s fluidly and consistently. He also has a history of very few walks.

    Does anyone not think a full season of Hughes, Joba & Kennedy are not a real upgrade over Clippard, Igawa, Rasner, Wright, Pavano & Desalvo?

    The Yankees bullpen was much better at end of year than earlier & I believe it will be again.

    Normally, the most progress a player makes is from his 1st year to the 2nd year. So I think the Yanks have a lot of special opportunities as well. Pettite & Wang are the anchors. This will be a special year with or without Santana. (And yes I’d love to have Kazmir!!)

  223. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 7:40 pm

    Shamus,

    i am going to puke

  224. marc December 4th, 2007 at 7:40 pm

    Shamus,

    What happened to the Jered Weaver etc.. deal with the Angels?

  225. bartap December 4th, 2007 at 7:41 pm

    Things may very well get better, and the Yanks’ prospects could still put Santana & co. to shame, but right now, things look kind of bleak.

  226. Maverick December 4th, 2007 at 7:41 pm

    Austin Jackson will not ever hit 30 homers and no one has ever said he will. He is going to be pretty good but he isn’t hitting 30 bombs. He will definately steal more than 30 bases though

  227. rodg12 December 4th, 2007 at 7:41 pm

    Enough with this Mitchell report talk. Sure, some names might be named….so what. PR backlash, sure. Any direct impact on the field in suspensions?? No Freaking Way!!!! The Union will never let that take place.

  228. Phillips December 4th, 2007 at 7:41 pm

    Scott Kazmir

  229. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 7:42 pm

    new Pete post

  230. Jennifer - Save Phil Hughes! December 4th, 2007 at 7:42 pm

    Joe G is just pumping him up to trade him. :lol:

  231. Shamus December 4th, 2007 at 7:42 pm

    Boston Dave…

    So, just to clarify, b/c we seem on the same page,

    We agree on Melky and Hughes…

    But would you rather give up another pitcher to make it happen (IPK, Horne, etc.) or another OF prospect (think Tabata, A-Jax, Gardner)?

    I say if they can make it a three for one, and sell the Minny fans on Quality over Quanity, then the Yanks could still swing it…

    Hughes, Horne, Melky and Gonzalez at the most? Is that over paying for best pitcher in baseball? How about Hughes, Melky, and IPK?

    The last proposal seems high… But damn, its Johan we’re talking about…

  232. Maverick December 4th, 2007 at 7:42 pm

    rodg,

    with as many names that are expected to be on it i don’t think they can suspend everyone but there is going to be a lot of media backlash if something doesn’t happen. At least I think they will put a rush on a test that can detect HGH without drawing blood every week

  233. Real World December 4th, 2007 at 7:42 pm

    Shamus is right about McAdam. I saw it myself and spit out my dinner when he said it. McAdam claimed that one of the Sox’ list of two, was Lester, Masterson, and Kalish. That is diarea if I’ve ever seen it.

  234. Master Wangkee December 4th, 2007 at 7:43 pm

    The Angels can easily snare Santana for 2 pitchers and 2 position players.

    Jered Weaver > Lester
    Ervin Santana/Joe Saunders = Masterson
    Eric Aybar-ss = Lowrie
    Reggie Willits-cf = Crisp

    Throw in Juan Rivera if need be.

  235. Maverick December 4th, 2007 at 7:44 pm

    Yanks gotta make a last second deal and throw in Horne & Tabata. Santana to the Sox will make it VERY difficult to get back to the WS anytime soon. Playoffs yes, but beating them in a 7 game series will be very very very tough.

  236. Drive 4-5 December 4th, 2007 at 7:45 pm

    Phil,

    I’ll believe Austin Jackson is worth losing Johan Santana to the Red Sox when he hits .300 in the bigs. Till then, he’s just a wish and a prayer.

  237. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 7:46 pm

    Shamus,

    I would almost always give up a position prospect over a pitching prospect. for some reason i like Horne alot. I’d give up Tabata or AJAx in a second if that was the deal-maker for the Twins.

  238. Shamus December 4th, 2007 at 7:46 pm

    Can’t say I’ve ver heard of this site… This is where the new Sox Rumors du Jour are flowing from…

    http://mvn.com/

  239. rodg12 December 4th, 2007 at 7:47 pm

    Good points Maverick. I guess they could levy suspensions, but I don’t see them being served. And the HGH thing, I’ve got more opinions on that, but that’s another topic for another time. Right now, I’m just hoping the Yanks get Santana (or at least the Sox don’t).

  240. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 7:48 pm

    Shamus, I dont give Hughes and IPK together but the other guys need to be considered

  241. Maverick December 4th, 2007 at 7:48 pm

    Yeah I don’t know anything about it. I just think they will have to be proactive/reactive to the media circus it will turn into

  242. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 7:49 pm

    got this from mvn.com

    # Michael Edelman says:

    December 4th, 2007 at 4:33 pm

    Check out the the LoHud blog and Bronx Block. The fans they’re are ridiculously bitter and a deal hasn’t even been made yet. They’re saying this is collusion and Selig should veto it because it’s not in the best interests of baseball. Then they’re going on and on about how the Yankees young players are leaps and bounds better than that of the Red Sox. Hey, it’s not the Red Sox fault the Twins want a starter who’s never pitched in Triple-A, a well below average centerfielder and a Single-A prospect in return for Johan Santana.

  243. PittsburghYankeeFan December 4th, 2007 at 7:52 pm

    Nobody has really heard from Johan Santana on this one, and he really is driving the bus.

    The only objctive evidence comes from Torii Hunter who said Santana really wants to play in NY.

    Santana through his agent said that he does not prefer any team at this point, and that Bill Smith should make the best deal that he can. He’s doing that since he does not want to block BillSmith from getting the most out of the actual team he plays for. He’s thanking the Twins for the years of service he’s done, as well as giving him the opportunity to play for the team he wants to play for a year early.

    However, I believe that team is the Yankees. It’s just like the ARod business last month. Either you want to be a Yankee or you don’t. ARod could have gone to Boston or the Angels, but at the end of the day, he wanted to be a Yankee.

    It’s clear that the Yankees would give Santana the biggest contract on the biggest stage.

    If the Twins cannot trade him to NY, and if that is where he wants to finish his career, why should he accept a trade anywhere else?

    You’re Johan Santana, and you are at your peak. You have one chance to do this right. While he can let the Twins make the best deal possible, once that is made, he can reject the deal if it is not exactly to his liking.

    Given this, why would he want to pitch in a park unfavorable over the long run to lefties, for less money than he would make as a FA? Does anyone here think the minute the 08 season ends the Yankees won’t come calling with a $160 million 7 year deal?

    Cash thinks this as well, is my guess, and he wants to say nothing. On the same plane as Santana’s agent? When he could have taken Hank’s plane down any time?

    If Santana signs long term with Boston, good for him and the Sox. I’m just not seeing it, thinking logically.

  244. Shamus December 4th, 2007 at 7:53 pm

    Wow, the gloating ahs begun…

    Jesus, what a decade this will be. I’ll have to move or something.

    LOL

    AND, I think its an older video from earlier today, but Steve Phillips (with Bob Ley) rips the NYy and says he can’t believe the NYY is letting a guy like IPK get in the way of getting Johan.

  245. Drive 4-5 December 4th, 2007 at 7:58 pm

    I feel your pain Shamus.Mass resident here tooo.

  246. EJ December 4th, 2007 at 8:27 pm

    Maybe, you know, he actually wants to get work done?

  247. Rockin' Rich December 4th, 2007 at 8:27 pm

    Maybe he meant to say that Farnsworth is DOMINICAN.

    (No?)

  248. Yanksrule57 December 4th, 2007 at 8:33 pm

    “Farnsworth may be smarter than we all think. He clearly has all these guys hypnotized.”
    I have never met him, but after he turned his back on Jorge when he went out to talk to him during a game this year I became convinced he is a meathead.

  249. Yoggis December 4th, 2007 at 8:36 pm

    Angels is not in the running for Santana:
    http://www.latimes.com/sports/.....5282.story

  250. MMF December 4th, 2007 at 8:39 pm

    RE: Farnsworth

    I’m surprised that Pete buys into anything anyone in baseball management says. They will basically lie or mislead when it suits their interest. Since there are no ramifications in doing so, it doesn’t really matter either.

    It looks clear that the organization has a well orchestrated game plan to pump up the value of Kyle Farnsworth to either 1. assuage his ego or 2. to sell him to anyone who buys into the baloney. I dont get why they dont push these managers a little harder with the questions.

    I followed this all day and have one question, is there any legitimacy to ANY of the Johan to Boston rumors? It all seems like spin, from the medical records, to the “Twins dont like Melky” stance, the numerous positions about the unamed third players and the comments about the tampering.

    To me it seems that the well publicized trade proposal with Lester and Crisp as the principals just does not pass the smell test. Lester is a nice pitcher, but its not like he’s a candidate to finish in the top ten in the Cy Young any time soon.

  251. pat December 4th, 2007 at 11:34 pm

    hypnotized? lol do you really think he’s going to start burning bridges right away and say he sucks and can’t do his job?

  252. Brian M December 5th, 2007 at 6:10 am

    I think they have just decided to try out Farnsworth in the 1st half of the season and see if he can keep it together until Melancon, Horne or one of the other kids is ready to come to NY.

    So now that he is staying whether they believe it or not they have to try to talk him up to get him into the right frame of mind for the season. We have such a young bullpen forming it might not be a bad thing to have him around for a while.

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