Girardi will have his say shortly
-
- December
- 4
The managers not named Joe Torre all come to the Winter Meetings. They have interview sessions with the media, meetings to attend and on Wednesday there’s a luncheon with the writers who cover their teams.
We’re getting Joe Girardi in 90 minutes or so. Hopefully he’ll open up about his plans for 2008.
I’ll report back on what he had to say.
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on Tuesday, December 4th, 2007 at 3:47 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Can’t wait to hear Girardi’s take.
He`ll probably say nothing important but I`d like to know what he`s REALLY thinking
Repost:
Have we heard anything from Bobcat or Miller lately?
Ellen: nothing that we don’t already know.
Johan Santana is very good. Very good. But all of this has become so much bigger than life itself. I mean, go back a week on this thread, its just so funny, we had the cult of bobcat, then we had that the yankees were going to get him without hughes, then hughes was in, then the red soxs were in, then they were favorites, then we had hammerin hank and his deadline, then we had santana going to red soxs for mike greenwell and jody reed. Every minute everyone updates everyone with what is happening. I long for the days where I would be surprised that Bernie signed with the yankees, and that was way back in 98….
Migames I am with you. The thing that bothers me the most is that someone will post something and all of the sudden no matter who it is it becomes fact without any linkage or legitimate sourcing other than saying it is from so and so.
Although if you throw in Bruce Hurst I bet the Twins would make that deal for Jody Reed and Greenwell. lol
Isn’t it interesting how the highest paid manager in the game feels he owe’s nothing to his employer or his fans when it comes to showing up at these meetings when every other manager is there?
Maybe now we’ll have a pulse in the dug-out without it having to come from Shelly Duncan….
Hopefuly Girardi will say get a good pitcher for me or else I will take the mound.
I agree, migames, it’s getting to be too much. Just get it over with already, or at least have Santana not agree to the extension with the Sox.
I want to focus on MY team, the Yankees.
Thanks for all the updates, Pete!
Hes thinking he has 3 brilliant arms to mold for a AL East title in 2009-2010 and how to get the wild card for 2008
What’s up with Joe Torre not going to this. I mean was he not paid enough to be worth his while. I got a very arrogant feel out of him during the contract dealings and following it when he hit the press and this only confirms it to me. I know he never visited our Minors camps and centers either so it makes me wonder a bit. Still he gave us great years but this kind of confirms its time for someone more hungry…Go Get Em Joe G.
Maybe the Yankees can send Girardi to Bill Smith’s room and smack him around a little…
wishful thinking.
Any time I tell my wife a Joe Torre story I always have to refer to him as “The guy who always looks half-angry, half-asleep”.
Joe G’s gonna tell us how he cannot wait to instruct Joba and Phil to knock Manny & Papi on their asses!
hahah. i always laugh so hard when the camera’s focus on torre during the games and he’s sitting in the dugout with his eyes closed.
i really am gonna miss that…
According to ESPN’s Peter Gammons, the Red Sox and Twins are close to finalizing a Johan Santana trade after Boston added Ryan Kalish to the mix.
Dec. 4 – 3:47 pm et
I also recall how he wasn’t happy that he wasn’t at the after season meetings. Well why didn’t you go to the winter meetings? I’m sure the Yankees would have allowed you to go to those?
Mark my word, I will pay everyone on this blog 5 dollars each, if the Yankees each big three, Joba,Phil,Ian, each win atleast 14 games, the Yankees make the playoffs, and get past the division series. If not, I mark my word, we don’t have a #1 starter. I am a Yankee Fan, and I want to make the playoffs. I don’t want to rebuild. I want to make the playoffs.
According to ESPN’s Peter Gammons, the Red Sox and Twins are close to finalizing a Johan Santana trade after Boston added Ryan Kalish to the mix.
Gammons says it’d be a 5-for-1, and with Kalish in the deal, it only makes sense that the Twins would be taking Jon Lester, Coco Crisp, Jed Lowrie and Justin Masterson. If Jacoby Ellsbury was involved, the Twins probably wouldn’t be asking for the additional center field prospect. Like Lowrie and Masterson, Kalish ranks comfortably among Boston’s top 10 prospects. He is much further away from the majors than the others.
Joe looked like he was sitting on a tack. To put it nicely.
Peter…I for one, think it is not funny that you are calling out Joe Torre for not being at the meetings. The man deserves more respect than that. I know he has earned it. IMO.
According to Peter Gammons the deal with the Red Sox is all but done:
According to ESPN’s Peter Gammons, the Red Sox and Twins are close to finalizing a Johan Santana trade after Boston added Ryan Kalish to the mix.
Gammons says it’d be a 5-for-1, and with Kalish in the deal, it only makes sense that the Twins would be taking Jon Lester, Coco Crisp, Jed Lowrie and Justin Masterson. If Jacoby Ellsbury was involved, the Twins probably wouldn’t be asking for the additional center field prospect. Like Lowrie and Masterson, Kalish ranks comfortably among Boston’s top 10 prospects. He is much further away from the majors than the others.
I want to win the world series.
Okay, so how many more people are going to post what the Red Sox shill has said?
Yea we all know the Winter Meetings are a crapshoot anyway.
Sunny, I do too
Other people don’t. I’m not rooting for the Devil Rays and want to rebuild or something
I pay for season tickets to see the Yankees win. I pay part of this 200billion payroll and don’t wnat to miss the playoffs becuase we can’t get a pitcher past the 3rd inning.
Yankee’s have a new Stadium in ‘09 and the RedSox are going to have a SP rotation that will dominate for years to come.. nothing like opening a new stadium totally dominated by the redsox in ‘07 .. and for the first few years of the new stadium.. yes this is speculation.. but almost everything said here is..
I can tell you one thing for sure.. I am NOT letting the RedSox obtain Santana at any cost. .given the circumstances.
I’m going .. “hughes, melky, horne, gonzalez, and another B” .. you absolutely have to, if the Yankees want to make a splash this year ending the historical Yankee Stadium… they need to do what they have to, to win the 07 WS.
In a manner of speaking, a number one starter or ace is not completely different from a stopper, or someone who stops a losing streak. The Yankees have a stopper on their staff. And his name is Andy Pettitte. He’s the guy that they can always depend on to stop the bleeding. I know that Andy is no Santana, but he’s still pretty darn good. Excuse my language.
As I said in last thread, it’s clear that Hughes/Cabrera trumps Lester/Crisp. Why not package 2-3 minor leaguers who match up favorably with the bosux 3-5. This most recent guy is from the very low minors. We have guys down there (Laird, for example) who we can put together with the former Attorney General, Fortenberry or Hilligoss. And there are others. Do not understand the stubborness. It is time to get creative so that the balance of power does not shift for the next 5 years.
It’s just ridiculous that they’re taking a bunch of spare parts for Johan Santana while asking for top guys from the Yanks.
Everyone tune in to “Basbeall Tonight” tonight to hear Peter Gammons call Ryan Kalish the next Willie Mays.
agreed fleas…Johan can be our future in the new stadium along with Joba and Ian. Phil can be their future in their stadium. These 3 prospects of ours aren’t in the HOF yet. Boston realized that Lester and Ellsbury weren’t in the HOF so put them on the table. Brian Cashman isn’t in the HOF and needs to do something before he is fired.
Wasn’t Gammons the same guy that said Santana wasn’t worth three Yankee players. Now it’s up to five Sox players and he’s probably busting a nut thinking about how good the deal is..
“As I said in last thread, it’s clear that Hughes/Cabrera trumps Lester/Crisp. Why not package 2-3 minor leaguers who match up favorably with the bosux 3-5.”
Because the twins were asking for a 3 and a 4 that were better than what the Sox were offering…in addition to getting a 1/2 that were better.
bphill
December 4th, 2007 at 4:03 pm
Mark my word, I will pay everyone on this blog 5 dollars each
Either u must be really really rich or u r under estimating the traffic to this blog. Which one is it???
Peter Gammons is brainwashed ever since his cancer sorry to be mean but he needs to be fired. ESPN fired Mike Irvin, now fire baseballs most biased player ever.
5 for one makes it more sellable to the Minnesota fans. Let’s just remember that the Red Sox have a history of messing with successful chemistry. After 2004 they traded their starting shortstop Cabrera and to this day they still haven’t found a good replacement. Yes they’ve made some good moves, ie getting Beckett, but I think they are on the verge of making change for change sake and to counteract the Yankees. Moves like that do not work long term. I’m still not convinced Johan will sign, but I’d rather be the team with the 3 young gun prospect arms then the one counting on the pricey veterans.
everyone is forgetting how sick our team was last season. sure we lost in the ds, but all teams lose here and there. we have a new manager and the same team as last season. the young arms are developing and will be effective in the pen and rotation.
NYY…I was planning on stealing it from the revenue Boston gets by winning the world series.
i refuse to believe any BS gammons writes. he’s the dictator of RSN, and of course he’s gonna leak rumors that the deal is “all but done”.
dont believe everything you hear. throwing 10 low-level prospects won’t land you santana. it’s ellsbury or buchholz (on top of lester, who is a weak offering) or nothing.
Pete needs to get that guys ip, I want to make sure I get paid.
same here, i want my $5.
Some of you folks have to stop whining.
Really, Brian Cashman should be fired over this? Why, because he won’t give up the entire system for Santana?
I know, the Red Sox are going to win the next 5 WS. If you are that sure, buy some lottery tickets for tonight.
Some of you really need to chill out.
I don’t know, call me crazy but, you still have to play the games.
Does the deal make the Red Sox better? Yes. Does it mean the season is “over”? No.
per mlbtraderumors.com
Whozat, I agree, and if they have already tried to do it with quanity, so be it. But I vae not read anywhere that they tried to offer up that kind of packge. I think they should try if they haven’t.
Gammons has been a shill forever, and I think part of the reason bosux prospects are overvalued is because he does it for them
and everyone should bookmark this link…
http://tinyurl.com/ypf552
Well said sj44
I wouldn’t be surprised if the Red Sox reacquired Casey Fossum, just so they could include him in this lopsided deal, too.
What makes some of you think the Yankees haven’t given the Twins multiple options?
Some of you make it sound like the Yankees didn’t try to acquire the guy.
The bottom line is, the Twins didn’t want to do the deal with the Yankees unless they got more from the Yankees.
They seem to now want a 5 for 1 deal to try and sell quantity and not quality to their fan base.
Phil Hughes was clearly the best player either team offered up in the trade.
Seems to me the Twins want a better deal from the Yankees than the Red Sox.
Dan – Most definitely. I think that will come in handy.
How much longer until Boston is over the luxury tax limit?
this rookie gm is the bigges idiot known to man if he accepts a trade without ellsbury or buchholz.
All these rumors flying around and not one about the Yanks in the mix for anyone. What are we doing? They dont leak what we are doing?
Gammons is reporting DiceKs massage therapist may be going to the twins also
SJ44,
So you don’t think the Yankees overplayed their hand?
What do you think is a reasonable time frame for us to see Alan Horne and Austin Jackson develop into impact players at the major league level?
IMO if their development doesn’t happen in the next 3 years, the Yanks wasted an opportunity here.
Hopefully this turns out to be 2004 for the initial loser of the sweepstakes. Everyone figured we were unstoppable with A-Rod after the Sox were lambasted for not landing him. Maybe the shoe is on the other foot this time around.
1. Young pitchers will have more experience under their belt this time
2. You don’t expect to have an insane rash of injuries all at once at the beginning of the year
3. Everyone won’t be in a hitting slump all at once 4. Odds are that Lowell & Beckett had career years and won’t replicate the same success
That being said, I don’t want to be down 3-0 in the ALCS .vs the Sox to prove my point.
How much longer until Boston is over the luxury tax limit?
I am guessing 2009. When the Santana contract kicks in and they replace Manny.
According to Baseball Prospectus, Kalish makes it 4 of Boston’s top 7 players under 25. Shouldn’t we be talking about how Cashman played Theo into giving up yet another high ceiling talent? Does that just work the other way?
I simply am saying they should try with quantity if they have not already done so. If they have, ok. Yeah, they want more from the Yankees. Everyone does. Well, give them more by giving them a potential ace, a starting CF and then give them 3 good—not great—prospects. If they have already done that or decided that with Andy coming back they do not want to trade PH, fine. But if they still think JS is worth offering PH for, then give them some quantity too. Again, this is assuming they have not already done so.
Even though its Gammons, this is what he’s saying, as of an hour ago…
3:28 p.m., from Peter Gammons
• The Twins and Red Sox are getting closer to finalizing a Johan Santana deal. Boston has sweetened its offer by adding a fifth player to the trade proposal—outfield prospect Ryan Kalish, a ninth-round draft pick in the 2006 out of Red Bank Catholic High School (Shrewsbury, N.J.).
Mister Delaware – I agree. If Cash traded away 4 of the Yanks top 7 players, people would be furious.
I just hope this whole thing doesn’t put too much pressure on the young pitchers next year. Or too much that they can’t handle.
From the Globe’s Nick Cafardo (3:37 p.m.): “We’ve said here all along that the Los Angeles Angels have the ability to make any deal they desire because they have the chips to make it happen. If they have jumped into the Johan Santana hunt, they pose a real threat to the Red Sox and Yankees for Santana’s services. The Angels have extra pitching, so they’re able to offer a major league-ready starting pitcher like Ervin Santanta or Jered Weaver as well as a host of positional players – anyone from Howie Kendrick to catcher Jeff Mathis, infielder Brandon Wood, outfielder Reggie Willits, and even Gary Mathews Jr.”
“I do not believe the Yankees are out of the Santana hunt yet.”
can we make a list of everyone here who is conceding the 2008 season in December of 2007, so that when the yankees are in the hunt next year, i won’t have to listen to anything they say?
so far i have fleas, bphill, and kasey.
deal?
According to Baseball Prospectus, Kalish makes it 4 of Boston’s top 7 players under 25. Shouldn’t we be talking about how Cashman played Theo into giving up yet another high ceiling talent? Does that just work the other way?
Please don’t ruin peoples other peoples doom and gloom comments with your logic filled analisys and your well thought out opinions. We have no room for that today sir.
hey, does anyone know if Gammons said the Sox would add Ryan Kalish?
Dear bphill,
Please mail the check for $5 as soon as possible. Thanks for ur generosity.
PS. I bookmarked ur post.
I say good. Let Boston start dealing with huge contract pitchers on the downsides of their careers for a while. God knows we’ve had our share.
Not saying Santana doesn’t have a few good years left in him, but there are a lot of innings on that arm already and he’s already had his peak.
Let’s see…..Crisp, Lester, Lowrie, Masterson and Kalish.
5 for 1. Usually, you do 5 for 1 deals because there is not one player in the deal who is a real stud. That’s the case here.
Why would the Twins accept this deal? Regardless of numbers, the deal is still light for the twins.
Crisp and Cabrera are the same players, accept Melky is making 1/10th the money.
Please Twins fans, don’t brainwash yourself with the belief that Lester is Hughes. If the Yankees offered Phil Hughes for Jon Lester straight up, the Red Sox would JUMP at that deal.
Masterson is the Jeff Marquez of the Yankees farm system. Alan Horne is a better prospect.
Jed Lowrie. Good player. Good player to have in the deal.
Kalish is the same as if the Yankees put a kid like Laird or Snyder in the deal. Too far off to have ANY idea what kind of player he will be.
The deal has no Ian Kennedy, Alan Horne or Austin Jackson type players in it.
It also doesn’t have anybody with the ceiling of Phil Hughes.
So, aside from whining, the question is, what do you do if you are the Yankees?
If you up the offer, the most I go is Horne. If that’s not enough, there is nothing you can do.
hmmm,
Yes, Ryan Kalish is the 5th player.
why not sign Kuroda to fight with Daisuke?
Mister Delaware to the brain surgeons on this site and guys like the Maddog it only works one way.
people want to trade Ajax like he is nothing without ever seeing him play…
It is not a good idea to trade 4 or 5 very good prospects for anyone especially a guy you are going to pay an additional $20 + mill a yr for 6 yrs….
I will take the Yanks as is over the nexy 5 yrs….We will see how our prospect work out.. Hughes will be 26 in 5 yrs. AJAx I think 25,,,,
Bob here is the salary breakdown to hit the limit for luxary t ax:
148 Mill in 2007
155 in 2008
162 in 2009
170 in 2010
178 ini 2011
The Red Sox payroll according to Cots in 2007 was 143 million but they increased some players already and also have to deal with signing or arbritration of others like Pappelbon, Youk etc
The Red Sox are said to have two offers on the table, one involving center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury, and the other involving pitcher Clay Buchholz. The Twins are said to prefer a package that would net them two pitchers, though they still value Ellsbury highly.
http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkxMTMmZmdiZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTcyMjk3ODQmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2
What freeagent pitchers do we think will be avaliable in 2009…any chance CC is avaliable then?
Great point Mister Delaware – Cashman should be applauded, not crucified if the Latin Lefty goes North.
so far i have fleas, bphill, and kasey.
deal?
I’m making my list now…..
“Again, this is assuming they have not already done so.”
this has been going on for 5 straight days.
don’t you think that the Yankees have tried dozens of different combinations?
or do you think Cashman and Smith are just sitting in a room with the same offers and staring at each other waiting for the first person to blink?
Brendon – CC might be available at the trade deadline depending on what kind of extension Santana gets.
Hmmm,
Sounds like a plan.
Drive,
I think Jackson is the starting CF in 2009. If he isn’t starting by Opening Day, he will be in the majors at some point during the season. He is coming along that quickly. Plus, he’s only 20 years old.
Horne? Perhaps they see him as a bullpen option this year. I don’t know for sure with him though.
Here’s the thing. We don’t know if Hughes, Cabrera and Horne are enough for Santana, from the Twins perspective.
I know I wouldn’t include Jackson or Kennedy in the deal.
And another things how many times do you hear the saying, “The best trades are the one’s you don’t make.”
SJ44,
I agree. They could add Horne and even throw in a lower level prospect.
Perhaps if they even included a Jeff Karstens instead of a Horne, it could get the Twins attention. I don’t see where Karstens fits into the Yankee plans.
Phil Hughes saved?
SJ44, i want to be like you. seriously.
kade714@yahoo.com
I know its not the end of the world, but why do I feel sick to my stomach thinking about the sox with santana AND keeping their top prospects??
“The Red Sox are said to have two offers on the table, one involving center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury, and the other involving pitcher Clay Buchholz. The Twins are said to prefer a package that would net them two pitchers, though they still value Ellsbury highly.”
well now, this changes everything, doesn’t it?
if this is true, and i completely doubt that it is, EVERYTHING we have read up to this point has been bullcrap.
Buchholz? that makes a lot more sense than a package centered around Lester.
I would drive Horne to the airport myself if it got that deal done.
“The Angels have extra pitching, so they’re able to offer a major league-ready starting pitcher like Ervin Santanta or Jered Weaver as well as a host of positional players – anyone from Howie Kendrick to catcher Jeff Mathis, infielder Brandon Wood, outfielder Reggie Willits.”
not to mention Adenhart and Saunders.
Those are some good players.
Boston Dave:
Because this sucks.
From SJ44
“Seems to me the Twins want a better deal from the Yankees than the Red Sox.”
I couldn’t agree more on that comment.
The thing is, I don’t understand why teams still do this. It seems like the Yankees have ALWAYS (since the dynasty of the late ‘90’s began) had to give up the most in talent to other teams for trades.
I can understand some teams having reservations about dealing with the Yankees and making ‘the beast’ stronger without getting a top package in return.
But, the Red Sox ARE CLEARLY the team to beat in the American League. Why the Twins view a package of Lester, Crisp, Lowrie, Masterson, and now this fifth-nobody-prospect over a Yankees package consisting of Phil Hughes (a top rated young pitcher, well over Lester), a Melky, CF with some upside, as opposed to Crisp, who has been in decline for two straight years, and costs $10M more.
The Twins are about to make the Sox a team to be reckoned with for the next five to seven years.. Even by sending him to the Yankees, in 2008, INHO, they would still be on a level with the Sox, Angels, Tigers and maybe a surprise-breakout team. I didnt see the Yankees getting Johan and it making the THE BEST TEAM ON PAPER BY-FAR. It would make them a serious contender with a slew of other teams.
But by the Twins getting bentover and giving the Sox an ACE like Johan (for a projected number 3 and a crap CFer owed $10M) puts Boston on a different plane…
The Red Sox will be scary over the next half decade, I’m afraid to report, if this thing goes through… Sure, we’ll contend here in NYY, but the Sox…
yikes
a plea: please, yankees, please, make no panic moves.
a question: do folks think the red sox will actually put up the dough to sign santana to the deal he’s supposedly seeking?
It would be really helpful if someone who had any knowledge about our prospects would tell Mike and Dog about then (but then again they are all knowing. They seem to have no clue. Just said that Austin Jackson is 3 years away from MLB. It is painful to hear them talk to the millions they talk to and I learn more from reading this blog then their show and their supposed experts
Remember, there is no deal yet.
No reason to be sick.
For all the talk today, nothing has been decided.
Looks like Smith is still trying to shop for a better offer.
At this point, the Yankees should move on. If he goes to Boston, deal with it.
You can’t throw away 3 years of work in rebuilding the system for one guy. Even a guy as good as Santana.
Just can’t do it.
Is it too early to buy a Save the Big Three T-shirt? If we lose Santana to Boston, might we move Hughes for anoher big arm? Tough to say. I think Hughes has only escaped this wave – there may be another…
ESPN NEWS UPDATE WITH THE SANTANA…....
Angels have made an offer to the Twins, Brandon Wood involved in deal.
Yanks out
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2007/12/yanks_pull_out_of_trade_talks.html
Cumberbun,
You don’t think the sox already know the ballpark $$$ it will take for santana?they will sign him. If he accepts the trade, done deal
Brandon Wood + who else I wonder…
steve –
i think hughes will only be on the table for santana. PH is valued too highly to be traded for a lesser pitcher…
No thanks.Its bad enough we have Igawa for the next 4 years.
Plus if we signed Kuroda to fight. What would Farns do for us?
“But, the Red Sox ARE CLEARLY the team to beat in the American League. ”
maybe this is why they’d rather deal him to Boston.
trading him to the Yankees basically kills the Twins’ shot at the Wildcard.
i don’t know.
UPDATE, 12-4-07 at 3:26pm: The Yankees, who rarely have kept their word lately, have closed the door on Johan talks.
Above From MLBTRADERUMORS.COM
Gayle,
Do yourself a big favor and don’t waste your time listening to Mike and the Mad Dog and Michael Kay re: this trade.
These guys don’t know the Yankee farm system, aren’t interested in learning about it and are just in the business of generating phone calls.
You do that by sayins stupid stuff (which they all excel at) and that is their shows in a nutshell.
If they made the trade, they would complain about the Yankees being gluttons. If they don’t make the trade, they whine like some of the people here.
Unfortunately, you will receive more accurate information about the Yankee farm system from folks on this blog than you will from talk radio.
Sports talk radio has become a vast wasteland of nothing.
The only thing you will “learn” on talk radio is the Yankees shouldn’t bother competing in 2008 if they get Johan Santana.
Its the “beauty” of these clowns being able to make predictions with no ramifications to them.
Hughesian Bias, it’s funny that you could cut and paste part of an article and mysteriously get some of the information incorrect. Nowhere in that article does it state that Buchholz is included in any of the offers.
Well, at least we know we can have Pettitte for another 10 years.
http://tinyurl.com/2nbq9e
I’m soory, but my hair hurts thinking about a $200mil payroll with no ace and no help in the bullpen.
agreed Drive
raymagnetic, you need to read. i missed the quotation marks but i realized that after the post. it’s the third paragraph in the article.
i don’t believe it either, i’m just showing you that it’s out there.
Who is to say they won’t have help in the bullpen?
I doubt the Yankees won’t do anything.
Just because its been, “All Santana all the time”, doesn’t mean they don’t have other irons in the fire.
can Roger still pitch?
PB in DC
December 4th, 2007 at 4:32 pm
JUST HEARD ON WEEI BOSTON
Rob Bradford a reporter for a newspaper in MA (or RI, I don’t know) just reported on WEEI (Boston) that the Twins have told the Red Sox that they want to get the deal done and finalized by the end of the day today.
He went on to say and I’m trying to quote him here, “the only wild card is if the Yankees come in and forget about the deadline from yesterday and include Ian Kennedyâ€.
Bradford then said, the feeling now in the afternoon at winter meetings is that EVERYONE (execs, gms, baseball people in general) is all of sudden saying if you have a chance to get Johan Santana, then you do whatever it takes to get it done…. he then said you don’t let one good but not superior prospect hold up the deal (kennedy).
FYI
Good. Now we can do something about the bullpen.
“I’m soory, but my hair hurts thinking about a $200mil payroll with no ace and no help in the bullpen.”
so start thinking of Joba as your ace.
live with a little uncertainty. this is what it feels like rooting for the 29 other teams.
and the bullpen will be ok. they’ll find enough arms in their system to piece it together.
the biggest bullpen upgrade happened a month ago when Torre left.
I think/HOPE Cashman & Hank re-discover their ability to be logical and MAN UP to WIN THIS over the Red Sox and get the best pitcher in baseball.
Period.
Is that chill and laid back enough for you Peter Abe?
Pleeeeeeze, what a fraud. The fans should be anything but chill when you’re talking about the Red Sox getting ANOTHER Cy-Young caliber ace.
Cash: Get the deal done.
Everyone can try to rationalize this all they want to, but the Red Sox are going to trade for and then sign Santana.
When that happens you can kiss the division good-bye for the next three years or so. Not trading for Santana for a price of Hughes (granted has ace POTENTIAL) Cabrera,( a league average outfielder) Jackson ( hyped off a half season breakout) and Horne (almost 25 at Double AA) is a horrible mistake.
And on top of that we’re stuck with another headline grabbing, irrational Steinbrenner running the Yankees. Can’t wait to give up Hughes and Kennedy for Dan Haren. Great!
Wow, I’m bitter.
Boston Dave—I suspect you’re right. It’s becoming a much different organization up there in Beantown…
actually, now that you mention it, it is wrong. i saw it on a RS blog after someone posted it.
“The Red Sox are said to have two offers on the table, one involving center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury, and the other involving pitcher Clay Buchholz.”
it was a typo. the article did say buchholz, and they must’ve fixed it by now.
Not my fault!
http://joyofsox.blogspot.com/2007/12/tuesday-with-johan-santana.html
scroll all the way to the bottom.
SJ
I am sick in anticipation
I wish you all knew what its like to live in Boston as a diehard yanks fan…
SJ,
I can’t see Horne out of the coming out of the pen. As you and I discussed during the ‘07 season, Horne blows people away with a large repetoire of pitches; that obviously would make him best suited for the rotation. I guess if the Yanks get desperate for bullpen help they could try him in the ‘pen, but I just see that as a waste of his talent. And I am very happy that thus far the Yanks have declined to include Horne in any deals.
Last year our rotation got a late season boost from Hughes and Kennedy. Next year, I think our bullpen could get a similar and unexpected boost from young arms like Horne, Sanchez, Melancon, Whelan, Robertson, Veras, Ohlendorf and maybe the dude from the Nats. Maybe even Edwar Ramirez or Chris Britton…
If the bullpen completely implodes (which I doubt it will), the Yankees have the luxury of having Joba Chamberlain battle-tested and capable of closing in a pinch.
Can we talk about someone elese, please?
Two words: D – Train… (well, a letter and a word).
Dontrelle Willis
First off, I think he could be had (AND THIS IS OPEN FOR RIDICULE! PLEASE! JUMP RIGHT IN!) for a three player package, a poor mans Johan type deal:
Ready—- IPK, Horne, and Brett Gardner.
Is it overpaying? Willis has been in decline since his Cy Young campaign… Or is it not enough? The NYY and Marlins have made a lot of trades, and always seem fair with each other.
Fact is, he is a young LHP, witha ring, a great ra-ra clubhouse attitude, and while coming from a pitcher’s paradise of a park, he could fare well in NYY, under Girardi, and Eiland, with pros like Mo, AP, and Moose to learn from, and young guys all around him, like Phil Hughes and Joba Chamberlain.
Having a three of Phil, Joba and D Train to build around isn’t that bad.
Dontrelle was said to be off the radar until he surfaced today with Miggy Cabrera BOTh going to the Tigers for Miller, Maybin and a slew of prospects.
I say the Yanks can get D Train, revive him in NYY, work with his delivery, and get him while keeping Phil Franchise and Joba the Hutt.
What does Fla covet? SP and OF.
Any takers
I am very torn on this right now. I think that this is for the best long term, but short term it kinda sucks.
The Yankees have essentially resigned themselves to finishing second in the AL East for at least the next three years (conservative estimate). That is a helluva price to pay to keep austin jackson and alan horne.
i suppose this is karma for a 100 years of beating up on the rest of baseball. the baseball gods are giving yankees’ fans a dose of their own medicine. and it does not taste good.
hughesian bias there is nothing in the article that states Buchholz is part of any package the Twins are considering from the Red Sox. Nothing. In fact this is the whole article.
According to a high-level baseball official familiar with the discussions, the Yankees informed the Twins that they would not continue the talks for Santana – despite the Boston Red Sox’ looming presence.
The Red Sox are said to have two offers on the table, one involving center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury, and the other involving pitcher Jon Lester. The Twins are said to prefer a package that would net them two pitchers, though they still value Ellsbury highly.
Discussions between the Twins and Yanks hit a snag late Monday night, when Minnesota insisted on both Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy in a deal for Santana. Yankees officials steadfastly refused to include both young right-handers.
That’s when Twins officials went back to the Red Sox, and spoke into the wee hours of Tuesday morning, attempting to hash out the framework to a deal for the two-time Cy Young award winner. The Red Sox could potentially have a starting rotation that includes Santana, World Series hero Josh Beckett, Curt Schilling and Daisuke Matsuzaka.
PB, if everyone in baseball thinks that teams should do whatever it takes to get Johan, then why would the Twins try to finalize a deal with the Sox today? Wouldnt they shop around a little more, esp. given that the Angels, a team with tons of trade bait, are apparently interested?
Makes no sense. I think there’s much more to this than what we’ve seen so far.
i have faith that horne would be a good temporary BP guy. same as joba was this year. maybe not as god-like, but you know…
Pete,
The debeate isnt whether yankee fans over-value melky cabrera – anyone can see that. I havce
no willis please !
B”radford then said, the feeling now in the afternoon at winter meetings is that EVERYONE (execs, gms, baseball people in general) is all of sudden saying if you have a chance to get Johan Santana, then you do whatever it takes to get it done”
that’s a silly attitude.
what about Joba, Hughes, and Cano?
there is always a limit.
Phil Hughes is very close that limit without throwing Kennedy on top of it.
if the Yankees weren’t right to value Kennedy, the Twins wouldn’t keep asking for him.
2 sides to look at it.
Shamus,
I wouldn’t trade for Dontrelle even if you were holding a gun to my head.
yea raymagnetic, i already told you, they had buchholz’ name in there before, but it was a typo and they fixed it. i saw it on a RS blog.
my apologies for posting it!
Willis is not (or should not be) an option.
I heard the Braford dude on the radio here in Boston just now, and he did say the Twins were looking to get it down tonight. I also heard that the Angels have moved in with an offer centered around Weaver & Wood. I’d have to think a Weaver/Wood deal is a better starting point than the Sox. With that in mind, it could be that the Angels are the reason why Bradford said the Sox will include a 5th player in the deal. Some low ball OF’er with a wierd last name that escapes me. He said the Twins really like Lester for some reason. I can’t see why personally.
Boston Dave,
I lived there for three years (2003, 2004, 2005). I know what its like. My brother lives there also. I think you just need to realize that the sun will rise again tomorrow morning.
In all seriousness, how could things get any better for Boston sports right now?
Poor, poor management by the New York franchises. We’re getting our asses beat all over the place by Boston teams, and I am really pissed about it.
I hear you, I live in Boston too. The yahdoods would LOVE Santana. Where’s your bunker? Want to share?
Willis would get killed in the AL. He has sucked for quite some time now in the NL.
Rob Bradford is the beat Sox writer for the Herald, a similar compasion to the Post’s George King, all rumors, no substance.
Tony Assarotty is their coumlnist. Makes for good kindling when lighting the fire…
I wouldn’t be surprised if the Santana to Boston trade got held up at the 72 hour window. I don’t know why, but I just can’t buy into the Red Sox interest.
Hmmmm,
Great Post….The fact that the Yankees are underdogs is actually not a bad thing…makes it more fun to watch if they do win it all. They still have a good shot at this, One of Joba or Hughes could easily emerge as the Ace everyone is crying for. Maybe even both, they do project as such.
Im just amazed that one second he wants to retire,the next second he wants to pitch for another 10 years. Clemens has rubbed off on him the wrong way and its just tiring for a fan to go through.
Andy is a great guy from what i read. But him needing the Yanks to begg him to comeback is rediculous.
Clemens drama is gone. I hope Pettite doesnt take his place.
willis is like nomo…i wouldnt want him near anything
I’d be very curious to hear Joe Girardi share his thoughts on the Dontrelle Willis he coached in 2006.
“Bradford then said, the feeling now in the afternoon at winter meetings is that EVERYONE (execs, gms, baseball people in general) is all of sudden saying if you have a chance to get Johan Santana, then you do whatever it takes to get it done…. he then said you don’t let one good but not superior prospect hold up the deal (kennedy).”
Okay let me see if I understand this. A radio personality in Boston thinks the Yankees should include not only Hughes but Ian Kennedy also in the deal for Johan?
What else would you expect a Boston radio personality to say?
the yankees still have the highest payroll. until that changes, they will never be considered underdogs.
if the yankees aren’t willing to spend their farm and their money on a number 1 pitcher then they need to reorganize their priorities. pitchers like santana are not available that frequently, if ever.
Guys, don’t panic. The Yankees are designed to win regular season games as currently constructed. They’ll be in the 90-100 win category as is. It’s the playoffs we all fret, which is understandable. Remember though, nothing is guaranteed. I happen to like the fact that the Yankees are not overpaying, and are going to stick with Hughes.
I want Santana as much as anyone, but I’ll go to war with Hughes-Joba-Kennedy-Andy-Wang plus the best 1-9 in the league any day of the week.
Boston can bring it.
Boston Dave
December 4th, 2007 at 4:45 pm
SJ
I am sick in anticipation
I wish you all knew what its like to live in Boston as a diehard yanks fan…
Dave—I ahve it even worse. I live in the Redneck Backyard of Red Sox Nation, Maine, where there’s a Sox bumper sticker or a Yankees Suck bumper sticker on the tailgate of all seven of the cars in every front yard.
They are dancing in the streets up here. The unpaved, dirt streets…Someone save me…
VOIII,
i agree with your stance. we could have no aces out of the big 3, or we could have 3 aces out of the big 3.
let’s just wait and see.
hmmmmm, (the poster, not the sound)
two things:
1. I was only trying to convey what the reporter on the scene was saying the overwhelming, general sentiment is.
2. If you heard it, you would know that he meant WITHIN REASON. IE, you wouldn’t trade Arod, Joba and Cano for Santana.
In other words, why would you let one prospect like Kennedy hold up the deal if you’re so close to getting a guy that makes you a contender for the next 5 years.
Nick Cafardo from the Boston Globe just told Michael Kay he thinks the Red Sox would be happy if someone stepped up and signed Santana. hey really don’t want the contract but they had to get involved when the Yankees did.
“The Yankees have essentially resigned themselves to finishing second in the AL East for at least the next three years (conservative estimate). ”
add “berra8” to the list.
I agree with the general sentiment being echoed by some here. With Phil the phuture is bright man! Johan schmohan!
Pete,
The debeate isnt whether yankee fans over-value melky cabrera – anyone can see that. I have been saying it for over a yr now. The debate is whether Lester can even compare to Hughes. Hughes did better in his major league stint than lester. Hughes did far, far better in the minors than Lester – its not even close. Hughes was also ranked the number one pitching prospect in the world. Lester was NOT! I know our opinions matter little but what about the opnions of all the scouts and baseball prospectus? Do the twins take that into account when they trade off their most valuable asset. And coco doing horribly the last two yrs and making 10 million to Melkys better numbers and under one million in salary make melky little better in my eyes and Im sure in most others that look at the situation objectively as well. Im trying to see what the twins are thinking and the only thing i can come up with is this: The twins are bluffing that they like the sux offer better to force the yankees to throw in kennedy or two high level prospects. I would take hughes out, put cano and kennedy in and ask what prospect gets this deal done. Now, that the twins claim they would take ellsbury and prospects, we know that they dont NEED a major league ready ace. I say offer cano and kennedy and see what we need to throw in to finish this deal off. We can give up hughes and kennedy but we can easily afford to give up cano kennedy and melky if we buy a replacement in center. Obviously the twins are hungry for quanity over quality and cano would be one of the best hitters on the team and prolly has a better future than ellsbury.
Dave,
I spend a lot of time in Boston, I know what you mean.
I will have a nephew playing in the Cape next season, who is a very good prospect.
I will wear my Yankee gear (just as I do every time I am in Boston) proudly and tick those folks off to no end!
I have no problem with “uncertainty”. But, let’s qualify that a bit.
The Yankees “uncertainty” is much better than other teams.
What folks don’t realize is just how good the young arms are in the system. Its more than just Hughes, Kennedy and Chamberlain.
Guys like Sanchez, Melancon, Horne, Scott Patterson (a sleeper for the ‘pen) are just some of the names to watch.
I can see why the organization is loathe to give up those guys. Mainly, because they don’t have to be great for them to win games because the offense is so good.
There is a long way to go before spring training. Its not like the Yankees will stop trying to improve the team if they don’t get Santana.
Can we just look forward to actually maybe developing a LIKEABLE team? No one was confident when skinny Derek Jeter was deep in the hole and everyone cried fowl when Constantino Martinez replaced Mattingly. Relax…Andrew Eugene Pettitte didnt actually instill confidence the first time he took the mound
raymagentic,
Bradford is NOT a radio personality. He is a reporter for a newspaper (the Boston Hearld, I think)... I dont think he has a vested stake in screwing the Yankees… nor do I think he has any authority in the matter whatsoever.
I’m not saying that I put my life’s savings on the comments, just telling you what was being said.
He is at the Winter Meetings… are we?
I thought not.
1022.2 career IP for Dontrelle Willis
25 years old.
They took a 20 year old and pushed him to pitch an average of 200 IP every year for 5 straight seasons.
Welcome to the big leagues D-Train.
Wow, so many Yankees fans from Boston in here. I’m Boston born and raised. I hate the Yahoo’s here in Boston who are obsessed with everything New York. I’ve had strangers curse me for wearing my Yankees hat in town. It was great when some schmuck(s) would yell at me and my bud for wearing our Yankees stuff, and we could just chant “1918” and clap at them. Not anymore my friends. 80(
For all of you living in Beantown,
Imagine what it was like for all the Bostonians to watch the Yankees kick their ass for 89 years…Imagine what it was like for them to watch Bucky F’ing Dent’s HR…Imagine what it was like to watch Bill Buckner’s imfamous between the legs mishap…The fact that you are Yankee fans and have watched your team win so may times should bring great joy and comfort. I know that Bostons fans are obnoxious. But you root for the greatest franchise in the history of sports!!!! That hasn’t changed and in fact you can count on this team rising to the top again. The Steinbrenner family will not let this ship sink….
The “we have to do everything possible to keep him from Boston” logic makes me a little nauseous.
I am so late.
“1. I was only trying to convey what the reporter on the scene was saying the overwhelming, general sentiment is.”
oh, i know. i wasn’t addressing that to you. i was addressing it to the person you quoted.
“In other words, why would you let one prospect like Kennedy hold up the deal if you’re so close to getting a guy that makes you a contender for the next 5 years.”
but that’s the wrong way to look at it.
it’s not Kennedy that held up the deal. it is HUGHES that held up the deal.
let say the yankees were offering Hughes and Joba and the Twins then asked for Jackson too. can you say “why would you let Jackson stand in the way of getting Santana?”
no. it’s the TOTAL of the package that got to be too much. it’s silly to point to Kennedy and say he was the reason. the reason was that the yankees were VERY reluctant to trade Hughes. the Twins asking for Kennedy ON TOP of Hughes crossed their limit.
it wasn’t Kennedy, it was Hughes + Kennedy + Melky + having to find and pay a CFer + the insane contract for Santana + the luxury tax on Santana and the CFer.
at some point it’s too much risk to invest all of that in one pitcher.
any bobcat sitings?
From the Globe’s Gordon Edes (4:39 p.m.): “The Newark Star Ledger just reported that the Yankees are out of the running for Johan Santana. One Sox source said he was skeptical that was the case. The Twins, meanwhile, have outrighted a player off their 40-man roster, the kind of move that often takes place before a trade, as they try to create roster space. The Commissioner, Peter Gammons, says a fifth player may be in the package that the Sox would give the Twins for Santana, minor league outfielder Ryan Kalish, but my Sox sources could not confirm that. The Sox people I’m talking to say they’re still waiting.”
SJ:
I just need to tell you, I love the optimism coming from you, it really is wonderful and makes me really happy
Thank you!
Looks to me like this is going to go on for awhile, the Twinkies are milking it for all it’s worth, no matter how hard Old Yellow Tooth wants Johanna on his beloved Sawx
3:28 p.m., from Peter Gammons
• The Twins and Red Sox could be getting closer to finalizing a Johan Santana deal. Boston has sweetened its offer by adding a fifth player to the trade proposal—outfield prospect Ryan Kalish, a ninth-round draft pick in 2006 out of Red Bank Catholic High School (Shrewsbury, N.J.).
Not so fast…
4:49 p.m., from Jayson Stark
• The Twins and Angels continue to talk about a Johan Santana trade. Many of the same players mentioned in the Miguel Cabrera sweepstakes—Howie Kendrick, Brandan Wood, Nick Adenhart, and possibly Jeff Mathis or Reggie Willits—would be included in a package for Santana.
4:49 p.m., from Jayson Stark
• The Twins and Angels continue to talk about a Johan Santana trade. Many of the same players mentioned in the Miguel Cabrera sweepstakes—Howie Kendrick, Brandan Wood, Nick Adenhart, and possibly Jeff Mathis or Reggie Willits—would be included in a package for Santana.
It ain’t over yet, ladies and gents.
Mister,
You’re so right. You should never negotiate out of fear. I like the Yankees approach here. They set their price, and that’s that.
seriously. willis in the AL East, no thanks.
I dunno, I just always liked D Trains stuff. But I saw him a lot at ProPlayer when I was there a few years ago.
CC will hit free agency, I have no doubt. Then again, i said that about Johan last year…
hmmm,
you can add me to the list. i’m not crying in my beer, i’m just stating what i truly believe from an objective standpoint. the red sox have revenue, a productive farm system and two of the three best pitchers in the game of baseball atop their rotation. they have one of the best closers in baseball and the best 3-4 hitter combo in a long time. i do not see any holes.
the yankees will be good. i will enjoy watching them play, but they are not as good as the red sox right now. and they will be adding santana to their rotation.
I’m trying to find out more about Austin Jackson.
He hit .260 with a .345 OBP and a paltry .374 slugging % over 235 at bats in 60 games at Charlotte.
He hit .345 with a .398 OBP and a .566 slugging % over 258 at bats in 67 games at Tampa.
He was in between those numbers in the Hawiian Leaguue, .271 batting average, .368OBP, .489 Slugging %.
Decent numbers for sure, but what is it that makes him such a can’t miss prospect?
Real World
December 4th, 2007 at 4:59 pm
Wow, so many Yankees fans from Boston in here. I’m Boston born and raised. I hate the Yahoo’s here in Boston who are obsessed with everything New York. I’ve had strangers curse me for wearing my Yankees hat in town. It was great when some schmuck(s) would yell at me and my bud for wearing our Yankees stuff, and we could just chant “1918″ and clap at them. Not anymore my friends.
Before eventually living in Maine, I went to college at Emerson in Boston, from 1996-2000, a wonderful time to be a Yankees fan in Beantown. Now, I can’t fathom it…
Maine is just as bad, b/c none of the hillbillies up here can even name five or six guys on the roster. Most can’t pronounce Matsuzaka, most still think Nomar is on the team, and its always, always, about Jeter.
Man, they hate that guy up here…
Here’s another way to look at it:
The Yankees Top 5 prospects (Chamberlain is no longer a prospect. He’s a vital component of the team) are:
1. Phil Hughes
2. Ian Kennedy
3. Austin Jackson
4. Alan Horne
5. Jose Tabata
The Twins wanted 3-4 of the Top 5 Yankees prospects.
That’s not what the Sox are putting on the table in their deal.
Its why its smart for the Yankees to walk away at this time.
hi all
I’m a regular reader and post once in a blue moon to the blog.
Question: if there is a Sox deal in place and it falls thru, do the yanks lessen their offer when the Twins ask again? (This is assuming the Angels and Dodgers are out of the picture)
The Twinkies would be absolute fools not to take that Angels package if it’s true…They fill so many holes with that trade and solidify their infield for years…
hmmmm, it is my understanding that the Yankees offered Hughes, Melky & a lesser/lower prospect.
The Twins said ‘no’, and requested that Kennedy be included.
That is what Bradford was talking about…. the Twins would accept the deal the Yankees offered, which included Hughes, if Kennedy came along.
In that scenario, which neither you or me can confirm or deny, then it IS Kennedy that is holding up the deal for the best pitcher in the majors.
Listen, if Santana stays in minny or goes to LA, then great, I’m glad they get to hold onto Hughes and Kennedy(for the time being anyhow). But if they let the Red Sox get Santana b/c they didn’t want to let Kennedy go, then that is LUNACY.
Forget all this dumb Yanks fans on here that say “I’ll go to war with Wang-Andy-Joba-Hughes-Kennedy and a great line up”... did we already forget that the Yankees won the Wild Card and got bounced in the first round of the playoffs?
What happened to the Yankees’ results-orientated management and fans???
(some spelling may be off in the post, for the record)
Stark on Mike Kay saying the Red Sox would be happy if the Angels got him as well
Drive 4-5,
No such thing as a can’t miss prospect. Jackson projects as a future stud, so that is why they want to hang onto him.
Go Angels!
(after all the pain they’ve caused us ober the years, it feels great to say that!)
How pathetic are the Sox? I can’t believe THE YANKEES dictate the RED SOX offseason moves.
SJ,
Why is Hughes still a prospect, and Joba Not? just Curious…
berra8 :
”....Poor, poor management by the New York franchises. We’re getting our asses beat all over the place by Boston teams, and I am really pissed about it….”
this is NOT true when talking about baseball.
The Yankees have made some GREAT moves (and passed on many others) over the past few years that really make the Sox look STUPID.
I understand they have two WS to show for the past 4 years, but not because of great management. Theo, Luccino, and the other Red Hose have been LESS then BAD
Quick Breakdown:
Lowell was PURE LUCK – they didn’t even want him
Dice K was as close to a bust as you can get without actually being a bust
What about Gagne? – That worked out well, huh?
Let’s not forget about the Golden Child, JD BLEW.
or how about Julio Lugo, or even Renteria before that… WEAK!!
hmm … The CoCo Crisp story? ..that was never intended to be a comedy, but funny nonetheless.
Manny is still there, but NOT because they want him, so they shouldn’t get any credit for him.
They did, however, fleece Arizona with the Schilling trade, and if it wasn’t for this past year, the Beckett deal was about to be a major BUST as well… i’m stil not sold that that deal was a Boston winner .. i need to see Beckett do it more then once, because you know Hanley’s going to be well above average for years, and Beckett is due for AT LEAST a month on the DL EVERY YEAR!
But the thought that the Sawx management has made the Yanks look bad is a GROSS mis perception.
Its the opposite, really.
Stark says Sox would take Santana if the twins accepted their inferior package, but are unsure about adding his contract
The problem with looking at stats when evaluating prospects like Jackson is, they don’t tell the whole story.
He really jumped as a prospect when he was promoted to Tampa.
Since his promotion, he has played terrific baseball at every level he has played.
Even the one game he played at AAA this year, he wasn’t overmatched.
Kids who are great athletes (like Jackson) sometimes just have it all come together. When that happens, they become special players.
Jackson has that chance to be a great player. Its why he isn’t only coveted by the Yankees, he is coveted by every team in the game right now.
The sky won’t fall if Santana winds up with the Red Sox, it will add to an already formidable starting rotation, but it does nothing to address their offensive issues. I applaud Cashman and Steinbrenner for taking a stand here and not mortgaging the farm ( pardon the bad pun ) for one starting pitcher. The Big Three need some time to develop, and I’m willing to give it to them. I have nothing but confidence in Joba…
Shamus – ha! It sounds bad up there in Maine. There are definitely a fair share of idiots here in Boston, also – I try to avoid them, though, and seek out the intelligent Red Sox fans (who are great, and really know their baseball, and don’t revert to stupid chants about the Yankees sucking and such). I have to say, though, some of them are horrible. I’m a 27-year old woman, and I’ve had scary huge men lean out of their car windows and yell things at me just because I was wearing a Yankees hat. I’d say 8 out of 10 Sox fans, although I disagree with them, are great to talk baseball with: it’s the other 2 out of 10 that make me wish I lived somewhere else.
Also, I love Boston in general – a beautiful city that I’ve made my home. I just can’t stand that 2 out of 10…
lol. Stark says Mets are screwed. Nobody wants anything they have to trade
drive 4-5 i’m sure SJ44 can give you the full run down but this is what i understand from following the minors for the past year.
AJax was drafted as a two sport athlete, he had a full scholarship to play basketball at Georgia Tech but the yankees “bought” him. he pretty much stopped playing baseball his last year at school to concentrate on basketball but after a slow start in the minors he began to get his baseball feel back. Yankee officials thought he needed more motivation and they promoted him to Tampa, as you stated by his numbers he must have just needed a swift kick in the pants … hes had almost 600 AB’s after hawaii so you could just say he was fatigued, which would be the reason behind his low average.
this is the biggest test for him, AA. the hardest jump in the minors is A ball to AA, so if he plays well this year he will be special because he is a five tool athlete.
I dont get this logic: Chamberlain is no longer a prospect. He’s a vital component of the team
Chamberlain 24 major league innings
Hughes 72 inning.
You obviously know more than i, but its just odd to me that Joba is such a sure thing based on 24 innings and the fact that everyone says we havent seen his 4th pitch
VOIII,
Because Chamberlain was put off limits (in trade talks) by the Yankees immediately after the season and played a bigger role in the team than Hughes did last year.
This year, Hughes (if he is still with the team) will move into a more prominent role with the team.
Chamberlain already has one, which is why he is no longer a “prospect” in the eyes of baseball. He’s a star.
Catherine
December 4th, 2007 at 5:09 pm
How pathetic are the Sox? I can’t believe THE YANKEES dictate the RED SOX offseason moves.
————————
How do you figure Catherine?
I don’t think that is right at all. I think it is delusional, self-centered thinking that is conjured up by fans to make themselves feel better…
AND I’M A YANKEE FAN!
lol
PB,
You don’t Trade 2/5s of your rotation for the next decade for 4 years of an Ace no matter how good he is. The value of Hughes and Kennedy combined over the life of Santana’s next contract will far exceed his. These guys may flop, but every scout and baseball prospect publication says they will not. Unless they get injured and that is something no-one can predict or is immune to.
Is there possible collusion between the Twins and Red Sox, in an effort to get the Yankees to bid against themselves? It seems like someone (Red Sox, Twins or both) is trying to scare the Yankees into blinking. First the bunk about the medical info about Lester, then the Ellsbury-is-back-in-the-mix bull, then 5 (mostly garbage) players for 1.
migames,
He dominated in a role he never had before…..being a relief pitcher. That changed everything.
Additionally, he was so good last year in the minors as a starter, he made a majors in less than a year after he signed. That’s a metoric rise.
It has nothing to do with IP. It has to do with production.
That’s why the Yankees wouldn’t include Chamberlain in any deal, while Hughes was available in a Santana deal.
Shamus & Boston Dave,
I’m another Massachusetts resident die hard Yankee fan (Berkshires). I even own 4 season tix on the Saturday game plan. My wife & I travel 350 miles round trip to attend 12 -15 games a year.
If I sound crazy passionate at times, it’s cuz I’ve got some $$$ invested in the Yanks success lol.
Is your name really Frank Discussion?
and as far as the sox’s rotation, Beckett WILL get hurt and spend some time on the DL once again, Schilling? as a Yankees fan, i’m actually happy they resigned his WAY TOO OLD self .. he gives the rest of the league a chance to win every fifth day… Buckoltz? .. didn’t he ALREADY have major surgery this year? .. is he to be depended on? ... Wakefield?? .. need i say more?
I REFUSE to conceded this division to that team.
Take away the World Series for a monute and remember that this is the same team that played .500 ball for the entire second half, and the same team that the Yankees kicked the crap out of for the last 10 meetings.
I can’t wait until this nightmare of a trading war is over.
If I didn’t love the Yankees so much, I’d just stop checking all 500 of the sites that contradict one another leaving the devoted fan wondering what to believe.
On Michael Kay they just said that the Sox will be happy if the Angels pick up Santana because the Sox don’t think they want to pick up his contract.
That pretty much tells me they were in it to make the Yankees either pay more or walk away. They didnt anticipate that the Yanks would walk though and now they might have to accept Johan’s contract.
I am very far from a delusional fan. I often tell my friends that I hate the Yankees as much as I love them. Sorry if I came off as self-centered?
Question
As we all know Mussina is in his final year. If he has a year like his last contract year, do you re-sign him? I myself would not. Just because I dont trust he is still the pitcher he was a few years back(fastball) and his attitude sucks. Thoughts?
Peter Gammons just said on ESPN in regards to the Angels exploring Johan that you would take Lester over Jered Weaver. He was talking in general not just the Twins. Someone needs to take away his right to speak as unbiased right now.
sj…would you trade joba for anyone in the league?
(just making good conversation here, see if it leads us away from all this santanamania)
“Decent numbers for sure, but what is it that makes him such a can’t miss prospect?”
Nothing. He’s very athletic, and I guess the Yankees have decided, based on their scouting, that he’s put it all together and blossomed – rather than just having a “career” year. He’s very young, too.
Basically, he and Tabata are the only really promising position player prospects they’ve got that have hit even high A ball, so I guess they’re hoarding them. I don’t know that it’s that he’s can’t miss, it’s that he’s a decent shot at a legit star CFer and, if they’re trading their current young CFer AND a guy who has a real shot at being an ace for a long time…they’re not giving up their next potential star CFer as well.
I am getting the sense that the Sox are surprised that the Twins are seriously considering their inferior offer and are making clear that they have reservations about Johan’s contract, I wonder why?
Maybe the Yankees can ship Giambi to the Twins and eat the money?