The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


It won’t be long now

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Dec 04, 2007 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Here are some welcome dates for Yankee fans:

Feb. 14: Pitchers and catcher report to spring training.

Feb. 15: First workout.

Feb. 19: Deadline for position players to report.

Feb. 20: First full-squad workout.

Comments

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280 Responses to “It won’t be long now”

  1. Frankie Yankee December 4th, 2007 at 12:33 pm

    Can’t wait! Go Yanks!!!

  2. gayle December 4th, 2007 at 12:34 pm

    It will be nice to talk about something else other than JOhan Santana that is for sure.

  3. mel December 4th, 2007 at 12:35 pm

    I :heart: February 14.

  4. Phil December 4th, 2007 at 12:35 pm

    hopefully Hughes will be reporting with the rest of the pitchers are catchers.

  5. eric December 4th, 2007 at 12:36 pm

    It would be classic Red Sox if they get Santana for a B+ pitcing prospect and other trash. They got Schilling for the infamous Brandon Lyon you’ll remember

  6. mel December 4th, 2007 at 12:38 pm

    SJ44,

    What were the original ETAs of the Big 3?

  7. Juke Early December 4th, 2007 at 12:39 pm

    Feb. 16-18 Yankees send all 35+ age players to Ponce de Leon Health Spa. . ..

  8. Chicago Dave December 4th, 2007 at 12:40 pm

    It is truly unfathomable the type of crap the Red Sox get away with trading for great talent. I guess the rest of the league is desperate to further the success of the Sux. I really cannot understand why this keeps happening.

    Mind you, as I said in the last thread, I’m still thrilled we gave the big F-U to Bill Smith. He’s going to decimate the Twins at this rate.

  9. The Fallen Phoenix December 4th, 2007 at 12:41 pm

    Not SJ44, but I think I can answer mel’s question: Hughes 2007, Kennedy and Chamberlain 2008, if I recall from the reports I read last year.

  10. El Comaduce December 4th, 2007 at 12:41 pm

    Yankees send all 35+ age players to Ponce de Leon Health Spa

    Or an HGH clinic…

  11. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") December 4th, 2007 at 12:41 pm

    how did Bill Smith ever become this dumb a GM

  12. Seymour December 4th, 2007 at 12:44 pm

    Miller said last week that he will certainly have info for us during the winter meetings. Thanks for coming through for us Miller!

  13. Chicago Dave December 4th, 2007 at 12:44 pm

    I can’t wait to hear the Twins’ fans wailing when both Lester and Crisp completely tank and those so-called other “prospects” in the deal amount to nothing. The Twins just took one big step back towards the Stone Age. Bill Smith will be burned at the stake someday…

  14. mel December 4th, 2007 at 12:44 pm

    Fallen Phoenix,

    That doesn’t sound right for Hughes. He was still on innings count in the minors in ’07 and only got called up because of that guy. Do you mean ’08 for Hughes and a year later for the other two? I meant ready-to-take a-spot-in-the-rotation kind of ETA. Sorry, didn’t make that clear.

  15. Someone Somewhere..... December 4th, 2007 at 12:45 pm

    We can only hope this works out as well for the Red Sox as stealing Carl Pavano away from them did for the Yankees.

  16. Global Warming December 4th, 2007 at 12:47 pm

    Beckett, Santana, Matsusaka

    all under 30.

    This is a sad day if they land Santana.

    Please do not compare friggen Gange with the acquisition of Santana. WOW.

  17. Mike December 4th, 2007 at 12:47 pm

    UGH!!!!! How come the Twins are going to send Sanata to the SCRUB SOX for trash… Lester, COcoa crispies, and Lowerie (AAA SS who has only hit .300 ONCE in the minors and has no power)… COME ON that is a horrible trade

  18. james December 4th, 2007 at 12:49 pm

    I don’t care that Santana goes to Boston but it kills me they can get him for garbage like crisp and a # 3 or 4 starter like Lester. Hughes and Melkey is a better package that Buckholz lester and Elsbury. Damn Twins if your not going to take the best deal trade him the NL at least.

  19. kasey December 4th, 2007 at 12:49 pm

    1. “if the red sox get santana i’ll be laughing maniacally (sic).” why, rebecca? because they’ll have locked up the best pitcher in baseball in exchange for a package of guys who didn’t really have a place on the sox team anyway? bucholz makes lester expendable, ellsbury makes crisp expendable. lowrie and masterson are prospects they’ve been willing to part with from day one. how, exactly, does boston lose if they get santana without giving up ellsbury OR bucholz? this is a STEAL.

    2. “santana will be terrible at fenway.” no he won’t. he’ll be johan santana. i love that, just because it’s the red sox making the move, yanks fans talk themselves into thinking it’s a terrible move. guess what? boston won the world series twice in the last four years. they’re doing SOMETHING right over there.

    3. “i’ll take my chances with this team that went 71-25, etc.” yeah? how’d that turn out come october? you’ll take your chances that they’ll win 90-some games and the wildcard? okay. if that satisfies you. i’d like to see them go ahead and win the world series. hell, i’d settle for an ALDS at this point. i think we’ve seen enough of this offense to know what october means. as far as the pitching “upgrade,” you really think hughes, chamberlain and kennedy are going to stay healthy all year AND have plenty in the tank when october rolls around? please. that’s a joke. at best.

    4. “why do teams always want to screw the yankees?” because while theo epstein is refusing to comment on santana and saying bland stuff like “we’re always looking to improve our team,” the yankees have somebody from the steinbrenner family (be it george or one of his kids) spouting off. “our offer is the best, everyone tries to screw us, well not this time!” well, guess what? if boston gets santana for lester/crisp/lowrie/masterson, the yankees got SCREWED. the amount of hubris from the yankee front office is infuriating to other teams, and it has been for a while. that’s why boston got schilling for nothing and, if you think it had absolutely nothing to do with boston getting santana for a bunch of spare parts, you’re sorely mistaken.
    if the red sox have a rotation of santana and beckett, they’re nearly unbeatable barring injury. with that offense, forget it. and if you want to talk about prospects and future, bucholz is better than hughes. has been at every level so far. so, they’ve got two better starting pitchers than anyone in the yankees rotation and a rookie whose potential is greater than the vaunted phil hughes. the next few years suddenly don’t look so great.

    5. “nice to see the yankees refuse to panic.” right. just like how they didn’t panic over dice-k. much like this situation, the yankees made a reasonable offer and boston won out. THEN the panic set in. if you think hughes is safe because boston got santana, you’re an idiot. it’s that simple. hughes, cabrera and somebody (hell, it could end up being horne or kennedy) will get dealt to oakland for haren. then you lose your treasured prospects AND you get a lesser pitcher than santana. then who’s laughing? boston again.
    this is an awful day for the yankees.

  20. Nacho December 4th, 2007 at 12:49 pm

    So is it official? Is Johan a Red Sox (Sock?)??

  21. rbj December 4th, 2007 at 12:51 pm

    Ah, February 14th, when you get to hear those three sweet words: pitchers and catchers!

  22. Ice Age December 4th, 2007 at 12:51 pm

    I can only assume, and this is of course an assumption, that the Red Sox suite is full of strippers and playboy models or something. Because I see no other way a GM can be charmed into such a crappy deal, or did Theo make him some homemade Raspberry Crumble Cake or w.e. the fudge it is those people make up there.

  23. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge December 4th, 2007 at 12:52 pm

    72 days till pitchers and catchers!! Hopefully p-huge will be there,

  24. Phil December 4th, 2007 at 12:52 pm

    Dice-K’s not that good.

  25. rb15 December 4th, 2007 at 12:52 pm

    No, its not official, so why don’t we all just relax about it.

  26. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge December 4th, 2007 at 12:52 pm

    Agreed James, I really couldn’t care if he goes to the soxs, as long as they pay the same outragious package they were asking the Yankees for.

  27. Flam December 4th, 2007 at 12:53 pm

    Seymour
    December 4th, 2007 at 12:44 pm
    Miller said last week that he will certainly have info for us during the winter meetings. Thanks for coming through for us Miller!

    Miller also said he wasnt going to post because of what happened with Bobcat…

    And its time we stop relying on them seriously. For all we know they could be posting under another name,

  28. Doug December 4th, 2007 at 12:55 pm

    All those Keep Phil shirts now will be called back to add more words WILD CARD

  29. migames December 4th, 2007 at 12:55 pm

    “Miller also said he wasnt going to post because of what happened with Bobcat…”

    and that was….?

  30. Phil December 4th, 2007 at 12:55 pm

    Our starting pitching is the exact same as last year while the Red Sox (with Santana) have will have upgraded significantly. They have widened the gap between the two teams.

  31. GOTWINS! December 4th, 2007 at 12:56 pm

    Kasey

    thank you for pointing that out..

  32. Chicago Dave December 4th, 2007 at 12:56 pm

    Watch Santana will now sign a below-market deal with the Sox…And that will have absolutely NOTHING to do with the Yankees so-called “hubris.”

    P.S. – I’m glad to see some alleged fans are willing to give up on the Yanks just because they didn’t get Santana (and kept their best young prospects as a result). Give me a break…

    Gotta play the games, period.

  33. VOIII December 4th, 2007 at 12:56 pm

    That Tigers – Marlins Blockbuster is what the Yankees should be working on.
    Say Cano,Melky,Kennedy,Jackson,Horne for Dontrell and Cabrera.
    Dontrell is only 25 and has a great personality for NY. The loss of velocity I suspect is mechanics that can be straightened out.
    The Yankees can then package a couple of youngsters to the D’Backs for Orlando Hudson then sign Andruw Jones…
    Line-up
    Damon
    Jeter
    Cabrera
    A-Rod
    Jones
    Abreu
    Posada
    Matsui
    Hudson

    Rotation
    Wang
    Petitte
    Joba
    Hughes
    Willis
    Moose

    Add a couple of lefties in the BP like Fuentes and Trever Miller.
    And go to war with Boston….

  34. Phil December 4th, 2007 at 12:57 pm

    From Neyer’s chat on ESPN:

    JC (ny): In two years who do you want on your team Santana or Chamberlain?

    Rob Neyer: (12:56 PM ET ) Oh, Santana. No question. Chamberlain probably won’t win 100 games.

  35. Yanksrule57 December 4th, 2007 at 12:57 pm

    Kasey,

    Let me get this straight, first the Yanks made a mistake by not panicking (I guess you mean overpaying)over Dice-K, then they panicked afterwards? How so?
    Also, was his slightly better than mediocre record this year was worth $105M?

  36. Matt December 4th, 2007 at 12:58 pm

    SJ44-

    You said in an earlier post that the Twins don’t have anyone compairable to Hughes….Liriano is better than Hughes…

  37. Phil December 4th, 2007 at 12:58 pm

    Chicago Dave: No one has given up on the Yankees just because of the potential trade. Just pointing out that the Red Sox are significantly better if they add Santana and don’t lose any of their championship pieces.

    (For you: Period.)

  38. KEvin Efflandt December 4th, 2007 at 12:59 pm

    VOIII…what are you smoking?

  39. GOTWINS! December 4th, 2007 at 12:59 pm

    Yanksrule57 December 4th, 2007 at 12:57 pm

    Kasey,

    Let me get this straight, first the Yanks made a mistake by not panicking (I guess you mean overpaying)over Dice-K, then they panicked afterwards? How so?
    Also, was his slightly better than mediocre record this year was worth $105M?

    how did the yanks panic?

    Kei Igawa and Roger Clemens..
    there is your answer

  40. hmmm December 4th, 2007 at 12:59 pm

    “Say Cano,Melky,Kennedy,Jackson,Horne for Dontrell and Cabrera. Dontrell is only 25 and has a great personality for NY. ”

    uhhh…

  41. Ice Age December 4th, 2007 at 1:00 pm

    “why do teams always want to screw the yankees?” because while theo epstein is refusing to comment on santana and saying bland stuff like “we’re always looking to improve our team,” the yankees have somebody from the steinbrenner family (be it george or one of his kids) spouting off. “our offer is the best, everyone tries to screw us, well not this time!”

    Kasey that is lame man and you know it. We get screwed because everyone thinks we are desperate to win a world series, so they use that against us. They also think that we are still in “trading 50 prospects for one bloated salary” mode.

  42. Global Warming December 4th, 2007 at 1:01 pm

    Yanksrule 57,

    Ever hear of a man by the name Kei Igawa?

    Also I want to hear you say the same thing about Pettitte who had the same amount of wins as Matsusaka. Yeah, I thought so too.

  43. Kyle From CT December 4th, 2007 at 1:01 pm

    I’m shocked that people keep saying we have the same starting rotation as last year. And that its bad.

    Think about it. Last year we had Pavano as our game 1 starter. We’re much improved.

    Wang- owes us a big playoff game or 2 but still won 19 games two years in a row

    Pettitte- Was our stopper last year, with a HUGE second half, and the only good playoff start.

    Hughes- Coming into his first full major league season, starting in spring training, getting his velocity back up

    Joba- trying to remember what those other pitches he used to throw are, but will be a battler as a starter. guaranteed.

    Moose- Hopefully earning his money and not giving up 10 runs a start.

    Kennedy- Might not win 15 games but will certainly win some games for us if he’s not traded.

    Compare that to Boston’s Beckett, Schilling, Matsuzaka, Wakefield and Lester or Santana.

    Don’t get me wrong, Beckett and Santana on the same team scares the hell out of me, but the other 3 don’t phase me.

    Old bloody sock, Big Contract Flop and Flat Knuckler. Bring it.

  44. Flam December 4th, 2007 at 1:02 pm

    VOII are you crazy??

  45. Yankee Jay December 4th, 2007 at 1:02 pm

    Here’s the latest from old yellow tooth

    12:50 p.m., from Peter Gammons
    • The Twins and Red Sox are supposed to meet this afternoon to continue discussions on the Johan Santana deal. Sources indicate the Twins are still trying to decide between a 3-for-1 for center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury, infielder Jed Lowrie, pitching prospect Justin Masterson and the 4-for-1 swap that substitutes lefty starter Jon Lester and center fielder Coco Crisp for Ellsbury.

  46. rb15 December 4th, 2007 at 1:02 pm

    VO, are you serious? Dontrelle has done nothing since somewhere around 2005. In the National League. His mechanics are a mess, and he’ll have control problems for his entire career.

    I really think we’ll be fine. If Santana goes to the Sox, he goes to the Sox. I think we have a great team that will be right there at the end of the year, and I’m excited to see them play together.

    I’m 27 – I think this is the first starting rotation in my lifetime where all the starters (except Moose, who I think should be a spot starter/long relief, if his psyche can deal with it) are homegrown. I think that’s great, and it gives the Yankees tons of flexibility in the next few years.

  47. GOTWINS! December 4th, 2007 at 1:02 pm

    yeah..
    liriano blows hughes out of the water
    Garza – Blows Kennedy out of the water, Traded him!
    Baker – slowly coming along. should be a solid #4, dece 3
    Slowey – Next Radke
    Perkins – a good lefty arm. bullpen or starter
    Neshek – Doesnt throw like Joba – but unhittable
    Boof – #4 or 5 man at best
    Blackburn – prospect
    Duensing – prospect
    Manship – prospect

  48. Anthony December 4th, 2007 at 1:02 pm

    Hey everybody, nothing is official yet, just relax and let’s see how this shakes out. That deal doesn’t make any sense to me and until I see it done, I just don’t believe it’s anything more than rumor. How many other false rumors have we heard so far relating to the potential Santana trade? Why would the Twins accept an offer they already rejected and one that is inferior to the Yankees offer? Think about it. It doesn’t make sense.

  49. S.o.S.27 December 4th, 2007 at 1:03 pm

    Santana=Pedro vs. Yankees

    Lets move on. Our pitching is formidable and our hitting is superior.

    We’ll just have to get Santana to call us Papa. Daddy is already taken.

  50. Count of Montefusco December 4th, 2007 at 1:03 pm

    Kasey,

    Wouldn’t it be easier on your blood pressure (not to mention your psyche) to pull for a team that you actually LIKE? This constant self-flagellation and doomsaying can’t be good for you. That’s not even taking into consideration the fact that it is generally ill-considered (read: June, 2007)

    “Somebody from the Steinbrenner family spouting off…” This is priceless stuff. You mean the guy who OWNS the team? You mean Hank — the guy who was agonizing over Doug Drabek and Rick Rhoden when you were still in shorts? As SJ44 astutely noted earlier, Hank has done a tremendous job thus far.

    “The hubris! The gall!” Umm…did you just happen to sleep through the first 30 Steinbrenner years??? You sound like a Kansas City Royal’s fan, for God’s sake….

  51. migames December 4th, 2007 at 1:04 pm

    “Our starting pitching is the exact same as last year while the Red Sox (with Santana) have will have upgraded significantly.”

    This is not true…Last year we started with Carl Pavano as our opening day starter.

    Here is the problem with all of this, if Phil Hughes gives up 4 runs in 3 innings, then he gives up 5 runs in 6 innings in his next start, most of yankee land will go ape sh!t about him, the pressure the fans will place on phil will be huge and then it *can* become something bad…

    Thats one scenario, another scenario is that johan breaks his elbow in spring training and then we laugh.

    Its baseball, anything can happen. Just because they get johan doesnt mean anything, Big Papi isnt getting younger, Manny isnt either and mike lowell isnt all that good. So who knows what will happen….

  52. Yankee Jay December 4th, 2007 at 1:04 pm

    I thought it was bad that I’m wasting this much time on this blog, but at least I’m a Yankees fan. Twinkie fans, what’s your excuse?

  53. mel December 4th, 2007 at 1:05 pm

    Isn’t it funny how the Twins fans come here and get all insulted when we say our players are better than theirs? What else did they expect to hear.

  54. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge December 4th, 2007 at 1:06 pm

    I’d like to know why these Twins fans and sox fans continue to come on our blog. I couldn’t care less what Twins or sox fans are saying about this or us.

  55. CaptainsCorner December 4th, 2007 at 1:06 pm

    Espn said that “the Twins last proposal included Hughes, Cabrera, pitcher Jeff Marquez and either pitcher Alan Horne or outfielder Austin Jackson.”

    IF this is true….Are the Twins trying to fleece the Twins or does Cash just not know how to make a trade? Include Marquez and Horne and get the deal done!! It seems like Cash tries to hang on to every last prospect and play hard ball instead of just going for it. Hughes is already involved is 1 extra pitcher not named Kennedy really gonna kill us. It seems like Cash doesn’t understand that he is getting the best pitcher in the game and is holding on to a suspect prospect and that is why he never makes the big deal. I will bet money that Horne or Marquez are never going to be better then Hughes.

  56. james December 4th, 2007 at 1:06 pm

    Johan Santana had a high era in Fenway in large part because he was facing the Red Sox lineup. I know the park is tough on lefties but i doubt the Orioles, Rays and Blue Jays will hit him as hard as Manny and Ortiz. Tommy John said lefties beat themselves mentally in Fenway and he loved pitching their. You would figure even if Santana is troubled by the park he would work it out to be succesful .

    Nothing that hurts them will be traded away

    The only silver lining could be the money. Boston has either been legitimately or pretended to be more concerned with payroll than we are. Hopefully some of their expenditures don’t work out (the dice man, Nancy Drew, C is for cookie) and they find themselves with an inflexible playoff disappointment.

  57. rb15 December 4th, 2007 at 1:06 pm

    LOL Yankee Jay.

  58. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge December 4th, 2007 at 1:06 pm

    actually S.o.S.27 I think it is Papi. :)

  59. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge December 4th, 2007 at 1:07 pm

    Make that papá.

  60. Yanksrule57 December 4th, 2007 at 1:07 pm

    GOTWINS!

    Okay, first of all if they have the internet in MN or wherever you live, go find a twins board to rant on. That is if enough people actually give a crap about that team to have one.
    Next, Igawa was a crapshoot, and it is too early to tell if he can pitch in the big leagues or not. He is only costing what a decent middle relief pitcher costs nowadays so you are wrong on that one.
    Clemens is a different story and you are not taking into account the context of the team at that point. They were starting untried rookies at 3 starting spots (and mostly failing with that) and were unable to find other experienced starters. The Hendricks brothers had them in a disadvantaged position. They extracted as much as possible from it. If you want to call it panic ok. At least they weren’t unwilling to open their pockets like some teams. Failure to do so when able does a disservice to their fans and is a ripoff.

  61. stuart December 4th, 2007 at 1:07 pm

    comments.. Liriano better then Hughes>>Really the guy is coming off MAJOR shoulder surgery…..

    Kasey with his uusual doom and gloom. Yeah people want to screw the Yanks because Hank has a big mouth, sure.. You must have a striving business…Be real…

    This is how it works in guys like Kaseys minds(loose term), guys like Buchholz are sure things but Joba nad Hughes are queston marks. That is logical except the yankeed guys have pithed numerous more innings in the big leagues and have all the talent in the world..

    NEwsflash, Dontrelle Willis sucks, look at his #’s in Florida!!!He hs personality so what, can that get you outs!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  62. DC December 4th, 2007 at 1:07 pm

    I don’t want to be held hostage by the Twins but we cannot let Johan go to Boston. A Johan – Beckett one two punch is too strong.

  63. CaptainsCorner December 4th, 2007 at 1:08 pm

    typo trying to fleece the Yanks

  64. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge December 4th, 2007 at 1:08 pm

    CaptainsCorner maybe Cash knows a little more about his farm system than you do. Maybe he knows they have a very high ceiling and it isn’t worth it to trade all of them for ONE PLAYER!!

  65. sunny615 December 4th, 2007 at 1:08 pm

    same shiznizzle – different day.

    I’m hoping that Cashman’s silence means he’s doing some serious plotting.

  66. VOIII December 4th, 2007 at 1:09 pm

    Dontrell was made for NYC…Buy low sell High …You get him of probably the worst year he will ever have…You get a player in Cabrera who’s stats rival A-Rods at the same age and put him at 1B for the next 10 years

    Look at that friggin line-up and the Yankees still keep their crown jewels…I love Cano and Melky but their loss is acceptable with Hudson and Jones coming in to replace them.
    Just thought I would throw that out there.
    I am perfectly content to leave the team as-is and watch the kids develope into a dynasty….

  67. Ice Age December 4th, 2007 at 1:09 pm

    God the Twins are annoying, I hope after this trade is done that they can just go back to being blacked out of the radio talk shows and T.V. like they always have. Bush league team, with Bush league management playing in a funky old warehouse of a stadium.

  68. GOTWINS! December 4th, 2007 at 1:10 pm

    Mel,

    ive been at this site for about 30 min..
    and i checked in to see what the yanks fans thought of the possible trade for johan..

    and its clear to me.. that some folks in here are simply here to argue..
    i make simple comments.. and yet singled out cuz of my name.
    i talked about the twins prospects.. they are prospects..

    some folks in here are acting like their prospects are gold.. but they dont realize they are just prospects..
    liriano blows hughes out of the water

    as a twins fan.
    ill take liriano over johan anyday

    all teams have prospects..

    but dang.. some fans are just out for blood today

  69. stuart December 4th, 2007 at 1:10 pm

    yeah captains corner why don’t the yanks just give minny there choice of any 10 minor leaguers!!!!!!!

    You guys have no clue and think the prospects are a mere annoiance……..

    I have no problem with this trade going south… If Minny makes this trade to the sux it is a joke, there offer is not better then the Yanks no friggin way…..

  70. S.o.S.27 December 4th, 2007 at 1:10 pm

    Changing the subject for a second.

    If Detroit makes a deal for Cabrera,would their offense be better than ours? I have to admit it would be darn right scary. Ordonez,sheff,Cabrera and Guillen.

  71. kasey December 4th, 2007 at 1:11 pm

    matt,

    the yankees not forking over a ton of money for dice-k was fine. same way them not caving for the twins is fine.

    the yankees then turning around and dumping 40 million dollars into somebody projected to be a 5th starter AT BEST was a panic move and it cost the yankees dearly. igawa’s godawful and they’re out 40 million.

    so, the correlating move this offseason will be to lose out on santana, then deal away prospects anyway and wind up with haren or somebody of that ilk. they give up the same amount and get a lesser pitcher in return.

    the panic won’t set in until after cashman and co find out that last year’s world series champs just got better.

  72. stuart December 4th, 2007 at 1:11 pm

    willis has sucked for 2.5 yrs.. not 1 yr. look at the damn #’s…

  73. SJ44 December 4th, 2007 at 1:12 pm

    Matt,

    Prospects. Liriano isn’t a prospect.

  74. raymagnetic December 4th, 2007 at 1:12 pm

    I love it when Kasey comes on the thread. If your music is anywhere near as jaded as you are I would HATE to listen to anything that’s on any of your CD’s. But I digress…..

    santana will be terrible at fenway.” no he won’t. he’ll be johan santana. i love that, just because it’s the red sox making the move, yanks fans talk themselves into thinking it’s a terrible move.

    Or maybe he WILL be worst at Fenway since most pitchers pitch worse at Fenway especially lefties.

    “i’ll take my chances with this team that went 71-25, etc.” yeah? how’d that turn out come october? you’ll take your chances that they’ll win 90-some games and the wildcard? okay. if that satisfies you. i’d like to see them go ahead and win the world series. hell, i’d settle for an ALDS at this point. i think we’ve seen enough of this offense to know what october means. as far as the pitching “upgrade,” you really think hughes, chamberlain and kennedy are going to stay healthy all year AND have plenty in the tank when october rolls around? please. that’s a joke. at best.

    Or maybe if Joe Torre pulls the team off the field until the midge episode subsides and Joba pitches under normal conditions the Yanks tie up the series 1/1 and the rest of the series plays out differently. Secondly, did Verlander/Zumaya get hurt? Were the Marlins rookies ineffective in 2003? Could be the Yankees rookies have the same type of season?

    “why do teams always want to screw the yankees?” because while theo epstein is refusing to comment on santana and saying bland stuff like “we’re always looking to improve our team,” the yankees have somebody from the steinbrenner family (be it george or one of his kids) spouting off. “our offer is the best, everyone tries to screw us, well not this time!”

    Or it could be because the Yankees have the most money and have won the most championships in the history of the sport. Do you think this could have some sort of effect on the other teams in the sport? I think it might.

    “nice to see the yankees refuse to panic.” right. just like how they didn’t panic over dice-k. much like this situation, the yankees made a reasonable offer and boston won out. THEN the panic set in. if you think hughes is safe because boston got santana, you’re an idiot. it’s that simple. hughes, cabrera and somebody (hell, it could end up being horne or kennedy) will get dealt to oakland for haren

    Or maybe the Yanks refused to be raked over the coals. What the Twins wanted from the Yankees was outrageous. Melky/Hughes/Marques/Horne or Jackson is an outrageous proposal. However I wouldn’t expect someone with a jaded view of the world to understand this. Also, maybe the Yankees and the owners and the GM are pretty smart and they already realize Haren is not Santana’s equal and they’ll lose the battle but win the war.

    You see Kasey, there is more than one jaded way of looking at things in the world. You just have to be openminded about it, okay pal?

  75. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge December 4th, 2007 at 1:12 pm

    Sheff didn’t have a great year and he will only get worse. No worries.

  76. whozat December 4th, 2007 at 1:12 pm

    “I will bet money that Horne or Marquez are never going to be better then Hughes.”

    So? Are they going to turn out better than Masterson? Most likely. Why are we having to pay more than the Sox? That’s the question.

    At least Ellsbury/Lowrie/Masterson is a deal that you can say the Yankees can’t match, because of the particulars…If the Twins want a cost-controlled CFer and 2B in this deal, the Yankees can’t really match that. Ellsbury’s D is superior to Melky, and he’s a better hitter than Gardner (who might compare on D) and he’s MLB ready NOW. The Yanks don’t have a hot-hitting AAA 2B (defensively poor though he may be).

    If the Twins value Ellsbury over Hughes and Lowrie over Melky, then that’s that.

  77. Matt December 4th, 2007 at 1:12 pm

    How can you all be satisfied with losing in the playoffs when you have a $200+ million payroll…If I were a Yankees fan I would want them to make some major moves to get some pitching…The Twins and Yankees should be perfect trading partners IMO…Yankees have a surplus of offense, Twins need offense…Just offer up Cano and be done with it, Yankees could more than take the hit to their offense…The Yankees could take the hit of losing Cano without adding someone to replace him, and that is undoubtedly not going to happen, they would sign the best FA to replace Cano…

  78. Steve Howe You Doin December 4th, 2007 at 1:13 pm

    If Boston acquires Santana, watch Gammons backpedal from his latest ESPN blog. He will be in defensive mode, defending his SOX and blowing more smoke up Theo & co.

  79. PB in DC December 4th, 2007 at 1:13 pm

    Kyle From CT , you’re out of your freakin’ mind. The only plausible explanation that exists is that you’re a 100% blinded HOMER… or that you don’t know anything about baseball.

    You just implied that of the two following rotations, you like the Yankees’ chances (implied by your “Bring it” comment):

    Yankees
    Wang
    Pettite
    Hughes
    Chamberlain
    Moose/Kennedy

    Red Sox
    Santana
    Beckett
    Matsuzaka
    Schilling
    Wakefield/Bucholtz aka ‘Laptops’

    ARE YOU CRAZY???? Pass the pipe man, you’re done.

    The Yankees HAVE TO prevent this trade from going through.

  80. rb15 December 4th, 2007 at 1:13 pm

    kasey, I agree – I hope that the Yankees dont turn around and do something crazy. I’m thinking they won’t, though, given that 1) they’ve been calm so far this offseason, and they’ve pretty much gotten what they wanted so far, and 2) it won’t be a surprise if Santana goes to the Sox – the Yankees have notice, so they have to be thinking through all their options rationally right now.

  81. mel December 4th, 2007 at 1:13 pm

    This has nothing to do with the Sox and everything to do with the Twins. We dealt in good faith and walked away when the demands escalated into ridiculous territory.

    Of course it hurts if Santana lands in Fenway, but the Yankees are being smart. By upping the ante and giving away ridiculous value to negotiate a hefty contract would do us no favors in future negotiations around the league.

    Gee, amazing what Andy’s return did to put things into perspective.

    Hey, for all you guys half-hoping for Hughes to fail if we don’t land Santana. Forget it. It typically takes a short while for Hughes to figure out each new level. He did that. He worked his way back into the rotation and was reverting to ground-pitcher form. He was asked to stop the bleeding against a good Cleveland lineup in the playoffs. He did.

    You think he’ll shrink under the pressure of being Santana’s scraps? Then you don’t know Phil Hughes very well. He’ll embrace that challenge.

    Keep wishing, guys. Some fans you are, that would rather cheer for a guy on another team than your own player.

  82. kasey December 4th, 2007 at 1:14 pm

    stuart,

    didn’t say bucholz was a sure thing. i said if you want to talk prospects, then you should realize boston has a prospect who has been better than hughes at every level. smarten up.

    people want to know why the yankees are disliked. it’s because they spend a ton of money (along with the red sox and mets) and spout off. i didn’t say it’s not hank’s right to do so, i said it’s not a necessarily endearing aspect of the yankee organization. do some reading. other teams don’t like being shown up in public. you don’t want to believe it, that’s fine.

  83. PB in DC December 4th, 2007 at 1:14 pm

    hey raymagnetic,

    with all of those EXCUSES, you’re starting to sound like a Red Sux fan… not a yankees fan.

    if, if, if, if, if…

    jeez

  84. whozat December 4th, 2007 at 1:14 pm

    “a panic move and it cost the yankees dearly. igawa’s godawful and they’re out 40 million.”

    Cost them dearly in what sense? Did spending that money somehow handicap them in another way?

    Nope.

  85. GOTWINS! December 4th, 2007 at 1:14 pm

    hahaha

    look i just came here to talk baseball..

    but damn.. lets argue about some things

    why does a twins fan come to a yankees blog?

    to talk baeball..
    is there something wrong with that?
    apparently.. cuz yankee fans are a bunch of idiots from what im gathering!

    oh yea. johan to the sox dont hurt the yanks.
    good one.. keep smoking it cheech

    we got hughes, joba, kennedy and all the prospects

    so does every other team.. thats why i named the twins prospects..
    so get off your high horse..

    For as much as the yankees spend.. i think its pretty pathetic that they dont RULE BASEBALL.. a team that spends $70-80 mil always competes with the yanks..
    Sure it sucks the twins dont spend money..
    But, i know that they will always COMPETE WITH THE YANKS.

  86. Matt December 4th, 2007 at 1:15 pm

    SJ44-

    Oh I apologize I didn’t get t prospects thing, I am just trying to get the word out on Liriano…People tend to forget about players after they have one year or an injury…but I sure haven’t forgotten…Liriano has had ample time to rest his arm and has been taking the process very slowly, I expect a big year from him…

  87. PB in DC December 4th, 2007 at 1:15 pm

    raymagnetic, you sound like the jaded one…

    ok, pal?

  88. Phil December 4th, 2007 at 1:15 pm

    Migames: I guess I should have specified that our pitching is the same as it was at the end of last year, not the beginning. The same as when we lost in the playoffs because we weren’t sure who was our game 1 starter: Wang or Pettite. With Santana, that question would not be asked.

  89. Bryan December 4th, 2007 at 1:16 pm

    Kasey is an idiot

  90. vrsce December 4th, 2007 at 1:16 pm

    It is time for the Yankees to fix up the bullpen and call it home.
    There is no need to buy up every available asset. The team’s integrity will be intact if management exoresses confidence inits’ home grown program as well as its’ current roster. Then organic team growth is possible.

  91. sunny615 December 4th, 2007 at 1:16 pm

    40 mil on Igawa – I don’t have a problem with – because quite frankly, it’s not my money. Igawa is a bust. Matz in terms of hype could be equally so, but he’s got more talent to adjust and become a decent starter. At the time, the Yankees had few options. Their prospects were far to young to promote (other than Hughes and see what happened to him) and there were no other starters out there to trade for. Nor were they willing to give up the same “big 3″ then as they are now to make any kind of blockbuster trade… so I don’t see it as panic, but more as a lack of options.

  92. GOTWINS! December 4th, 2007 at 1:17 pm

    “what the twins wanted was outrageous”

    that seems to be a common saying here

    “Pull Hughes off the table”

    how bout tell your owner to Shut the F Up and learn how to negotiate.

    Go after Haren.. We would love to see it.. like casey mentioned.. your out hughes/melky/kennedy and your stuck with a player thats not as good as johan..

  93. erikp December 4th, 2007 at 1:17 pm

    GOTWINS…

    “as a twins fan.
    ill take liriano over johan anyday”

    I don’t even know what to say to this.

  94. mel December 4th, 2007 at 1:17 pm

    SJ44,

    Do you know what the original ETA in the Bronx rotation was for the BIG 3?

  95. Phil December 4th, 2007 at 1:18 pm

    More Neyer:

    Mike (NYC): Rob, please expand upon “Joba wont win 100 games.” Why do you believe that? do you believe he doesnt have the stuff or do you think he will be a closer sooner rather than later?

    Rob Neyer: (1:17 PM ET ) Neither, Mike. If you make a list of pitching prospects with Chamberlain’s brilliant reputation, you’ll find that most of them did NOT win 100 games. Pitching is really, really hard.

  96. B December 4th, 2007 at 1:18 pm

    BTW – the funny thing about this whole Santana thing is how people consider Beckett an ace. He may be great in the playoffs – no doubt about it. But lets not forget that he had an ERA of 5 only a year ago. Super talent. Yes. Top 15 pitcher – probably (and no, I wont sit here and make a list). Would it shock anyone if he went 16-12 with a 4.5 this year? Lets not make him out to be Pedro of ~2000, Guidry of 78, etc.

  97. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge December 4th, 2007 at 1:18 pm

    I love these people who say we should do anything to get Santana. Why not offer up all our A prospects. :lol: give me a break.

  98. sunny615 December 4th, 2007 at 1:18 pm

    Also, Igawa was just a splurge of money – no loss of talent or draft picks – so I guess I don’t see it as much of a panic move as you do.

  99. rb15 December 4th, 2007 at 1:18 pm

    Matt, we’ve heard the $200 million payroll/losing in the playoffs jab before. It’s obvious to me that the Yankees are doing the best they can to improve their pitching in a RATIONAL way. If that’s by holding onto the trinity and not trading everyone away for Santana, fine by me. In a few years, the Sox payroll will be higher than the Yankees payroll, and the Yankees will be younger, cheaper, and more homegrown. Which is also fine by me.

  100. Matt December 4th, 2007 at 1:19 pm

    Many posters here believe that Cano and Hughes have similar value…I don’t get why they don’t include Cano and take out Hughes…Cano and Kennedy would likely get a deal done (maybe a lower prospect that the twanks like added)…This way they don’t mortgage the future and they become a much better team…Whether you guys think the market warents this from Santana is irrelevant, this make the Yankees a much better team…

  101. SJ44 December 4th, 2007 at 1:19 pm

    Please, offer up Cano.

    Really Matt, what are smoking? Why doesn’t your GM ask for Pedroia or Youkilis.

    The Yankees aren’t trading Cano for Santana because it would be a bad deal. Just like the deal your GM is settling for with the Red Sox.

    The Yankees pitching IS better for next season. A full season of Hughes, Chamberlain and Kennedy.

    Let’s remember, this is a team that had the best record in baseball the second half of the season. Its not exactly losersville.

    They also keep their chips if a deal comes along that makes sense.

    As presently constructed, the Santana deal makes no sense for the Yankees.

    Robinson Cano! lol that is too funny. The Twins are settling for guys that can’t even be Cano’s valet and you want the Yankees to include him in the deal.

    Priceless.

  102. whozat December 4th, 2007 at 1:19 pm

    “didn’t say bucholz was a sure thing. i said if you want to talk prospects, then you should realize boston has a prospect who has been better than hughes at every level. smarten up.”

    You smarten up. Hughes has been just as good or better than Buchholz at every level, despite being a year younger. Phil’s WHIP cracked 1 for the first time at the major league level.

    And Buchholz isn’t in the deal. Why are we talking about him?

  103. Ice Age December 4th, 2007 at 1:19 pm

    I have a question for you geniuses. Why would we promote to pitching coach, the guy that mentored the Big Three and got that quality playoff performance out of Phil ‘Aviator’ Hughes last year and then trade 2 of the big 3 away for Johan Santana? I really want to know!

  104. ET2012 December 4th, 2007 at 1:19 pm

    Now that the Yanks have pulled back the “Hug(hs)e” offer from the table, they can come back and counter Boston’s offer with: Kennedy, Melky, Horne and Alvarez which is superior to the Boston offer…

    Melky is younger, cheaper and has better arm than Cereal
    Kennedy is about the same as Lester
    Horne is better that Masterson
    Alvarez and Jered are about the same

    I would get that deal done

  105. VOIII December 4th, 2007 at 1:20 pm

    Stuart,
    I am looking at the damn numbers…There is more to a pitcher’s game than W/L and ERA…The guy throws over 200 innings every year and will strike out 150…His W/L record would improve with that line-up behind him. He’s left handed and 25 years old. It’s a risk I’d be willing to make when you add Miguel Cabrera to the mix. That Line-up would scare the hell out of any pitcher. And I am banking on Hughes and Joba living up to their projections…

  106. El Comaduce December 4th, 2007 at 1:20 pm

    If i am the red sox, and i really want Santana, i dont leak anything… There aer so many Boston leaks, this has to be a ploy to get us to give away everything…

  107. GOTWINS! December 4th, 2007 at 1:20 pm

    erikp December 4th, 2007 at 1:17 pm

    GOTWINS…

    “as a twins fan.
    ill take liriano over johan anyday”

    I don’t even know what to say to this.

    johan has tendencies to give up the long ball.
    liriano is just stellar

    did liriano ever pitch against the yanks?
    or did any yankee fans get to see a game that liriano pitched in?

  108. Eric December 4th, 2007 at 1:20 pm

    Peter,

    If that is all the red sox have to give up, then why do the yankees have to give up so much. Why don’t they offer an equal package to the red sox package?

  109. Kyle From CT December 4th, 2007 at 1:20 pm

    PB in DC-

    Maybe my “bring it” comment was a bit much. Santana and Beckett would be a huge force. But the bottom 3 just dont scare me. Granted I may be giving our young guns a little more credit than they deserve because they have started so few games, but I really think they are ready and will be just as good, if not much better than Matsuzaka, Wakefield and Schilling. Bucholz is great, but again, in the same boat that he hasnt started that many games and there is still a lot that remains to be seen.

  110. kasey December 4th, 2007 at 1:20 pm

    raymagnetic,

    the obligatory music insult! fantastic!

    1. maybe santana will be worse at fenway. he’s still the best pitcher in the game and a beckett-santana rotation is tough to beat. his ERA at fenway is based on 15 innings. hardly enough to make a case that he’ll be worse there.

    2. the umpires weren’t stopping the game because of the midges. it’s not up to torre to “pull the team off the field.” he can plead his case to the umps but the call is theirs, not his. nice try, though. i love how the blame comes back to torre.

    3. certainly money and the tradition of winning don’t help. but if you think it’s got nothing to do with loudmouth ownership, you’re insane.

    4. at no point did i say that the twins request of hughes/cabrera/kennedy or the package including horne and jackson was reasonable and the yankees should have caved. i’ll repeat that, AT NO POINT did i say that. i said they should include hughes, they did. after that, i made no comment about a need to meet the twins demands. i made one post saying that i, personally, would have thrown horne in but AT NO POINT did i criticize cashman for refusing to cave.

    and how, exactly, do the yankees win the war if boston gets to keep their best prospects AND gets johan santana? how is that the yankees winning the war?

  111. rbizzler December 4th, 2007 at 1:21 pm

    Matt,
    The Twins will be lucky if they get 15 starts from Liriano this year. I think the guy is nasty, but with his (lack of) mechanics and shoulder surgery, expectations must be tempered.

    And yes twins fans, everyone does have prospects, it’s just that some are better than others. If the deal with BOS goes through (in either composition), the Twins and their fans will be very disappointed in the value they get for Johan.

  112. GOTWINS! December 4th, 2007 at 1:22 pm

    If liriano would not have gotten injured in 06, we would have won the Cy young..
    he would have had way more strikeouts then johan, lower era and probably more wins..

  113. mel December 4th, 2007 at 1:22 pm

    GOTWINS,

    Better see the psychiatrist about that passive-agreessive disorder you have there. It’s always the same. “I came here to talk about baseball” escalates into “STFU”.

    So why do you come here when you know that your comments will bring heated replies? Because you want to tussle. If you want someone to agree with you that Liriano is better than Hughes you need to go somewhere else. Because even though it may be true, you’re not finding that here.

    ray from Boston is the only one who has come in here and had civil discussions and even he tends to escalate sometimes, but he remembers that respect is a two-way street.

    And I can’t believe I’m giving you a lecture like god-damn child.

  114. RosterRooster December 4th, 2007 at 1:23 pm

    GOTWINS: “But, i know that they will always COMPETE WITH THE YANKS.”

    Hahahahahaha. If always includes next year, I dont think so.

  115. SJ44 December 4th, 2007 at 1:23 pm

    Seems like the Yankees owner is a little better at this baseball thing than your owner GOTWINS.

    Arod, Pettitte, Posada, Rivera, all signed.

    Hunter? Gone for draft picks.

    Santana? Looks like he is going for lower level prospects and a good field, no hit CF.

    Yup, “our owner” doesn’t know what he is doing.

    If you want to talk baseball, get a clue about it first. It will help you in the discussions.

    Don’t be upset that your GM/Owner couldn’t fleece the Yankees. Its not the Yankees problem your GM and owner are clueless.

  116. Pinstriped Playa December 4th, 2007 at 1:23 pm

    Willis is GROSSLY over-rated!!
    Beckett, keep in mind, has really had ONE season as an ace – this is the same guy who has NEVER been able to stay healthy – heck, he didn’t even stay healthy all year last year… ANYTHING he did in Florida – the NL, makes no difference now (forget the WS – the Aaron Boone HR WAS our WS!!)
    I would not be surprised to see Beckett out for a significant part of this season.

    Dice K? ALSO over-rated, and if you follow the track records of mostly every asian pitcher that has come here, they peak early, and fade QUICK, so how can he be a concern?

    if the sox add Johan? .. whatever!!
    As great as he is, or as great as his numbers make him look, as a Yankees fan, e’s never really worried me too much… anyone els??
    Did anyone ever FEAR facing Johan in the playoffs?
    I don’t know that i’m too worried, honestly.

    * * * *

    The bigger concern here is really the idea that the Yankees still try and go out and get SOMETHING – JUST TO GET SOMETHING!!

    Adding Hughes to the Johan trade is one thing, which i am completely against in the first place .. but for Haren?? or Bedard?? ..come on… Leave It Be!!!

    Steinbrenner should really listen to The Cash Man – if it wasn’t for The Cash Man, the Yankees wouldn’t even have the opportunity to even CONSIDER any of these trades!

    Let the kids be, please…
    … and watch Boston, and their almighty Hypocrtical selves Chase Us ALL DAMN YEAR!!!

    You heard it here first!

  117. sunny615 December 4th, 2007 at 1:24 pm

    and how, exactly, do the yankees win the war if boston gets to keep their best prospects AND gets johan santana? how is that the yankees winning the war?
    ———-
    here’s a question – who’s fault is that? Cash can’t be blamed because the GM of another team (wrongfully) covets another teams package over Cash’s. Cash met (probably kicking and screaming) Smith’s first demand on Hughes and he’s smoking Boston’s weed. So I don’t understand why all the anger at the Yankees if they offered up what the Twins had originally asked for? My frustration is at Bill Smith’s all too obvious ignorance and idiocy.

  118. PittsburghYankeeFan December 4th, 2007 at 1:25 pm

    Hey Twins fans…are you ready for Lester to retire in 2-3 years, potentially due to cancer relapse? For Ellsbury to come down to earth, and be no better than Melky Cabrera? Then what do you have?

  119. ET2012 December 4th, 2007 at 1:25 pm

    Now that the Yanks have pulled back the “Hug(hs)e” offer from the table, they can come back and counter Boston’s offer with: Kennedy, Melky, Horne and Alvarez which is superior to the Boston offer…

    Melky is younger, cheaper and has better arm than Cereal
    Kennedy is about the same as Lester
    Horne is better that Masterson
    Alvarez and Jered are about the same

    Why can’t this package get it done!!!

    I like the trade the Yanks made with the Nats. That is the kind of creative stuff the Yanks need to do more of.

  120. mel December 4th, 2007 at 1:25 pm

    raymagnetic,

    that was kind of cold. insulting kasey’s music is like saying your kid is ugly.

    despite kasey’s less than bright personality, the music was good.

    but, kasey, I know you don’t give a spit, but really bringing us down, here. lol.

  121. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") December 4th, 2007 at 1:25 pm

    GoTwins!, I got a question when Bill Smith is fired, Liriano throws out his arm, Lester follows the same path 4.– ERA and continues w/ his control problems then health becomes a concern w/ him again. What then did you trade Santana for ? would you be happy w/ that ?

  122. El Comaduce December 4th, 2007 at 1:25 pm

    The bigger concern here is really the idea that the Yankees still try and go out and get SOMETHING – JUST TO GET SOMETHING!!

    That is what i am afraid of…

  123. GOTWINS! December 4th, 2007 at 1:25 pm

    who says you have to give up hughes/melky/kennedy?

    just cuz the twins are asking for kennedy..

    give up jackson or tabata

    hell, i wish we knew who the 3rd prospect actually is..
    maybe it is jackson or tabata

    rbizzler – yeah i hope liriano gets more then 15 starts.. but TJ surgery is tough… it takes about 12 months to recover. but liriano has not pitched in over 12 months.. so gotta be optimistic..
    but gotta hope we wouldnt trade johan for bostons trade unless we knew liriano was 100%

  124. whozat December 4th, 2007 at 1:25 pm

    “If liriano would not have gotten injured in 06, we would have won the Cy young..”

    Ok.

    But expecting him to be back at full strength only 12 months removed from TJ surgery is deluding yourself. I don’t think he’s even projected to start the season with the team, is he?

  125. Nud December 4th, 2007 at 1:26 pm

    Sweeny saying the Yanks are expecting Johan will def go to Boston!!!

    ughhhhllllllllllll

  126. Flam December 4th, 2007 at 1:26 pm

    this is all contingent on whether or not Santana wants to be traded to Boston. Remember that…

  127. erikp December 4th, 2007 at 1:26 pm

    GOTWINS…

    You can join the blog and say whatever you want (in your sub-literate English even), but don’t expect anyone to take you seriously if you are saying you value Liriano more than Santana.

  128. Chicago Dave December 4th, 2007 at 1:26 pm

    Twins fans – You couldn’t win it all with Hunter in center and Santana on the bump. You honestly think Ellsbury and Lester/Masterson are going to bring you to the promised land? Best of luck with that. Regardless of how much you want to say the Sox prospects are better than what the Yanks are offering, only a lobotomy victim would say Ellsbury is the next Joe D. and Lester/Masterson is the next Sandy Koufax (which is pretty much what they’re being made out to be by you guys).

    P.S. – I’m glad you think your prospects (or ex-prospects) are the best…But Garza better than Hughes? Come on, that’s ridiculous. And you’re also treating Liriano like he never got injured. Those rose-colored glasses you have on are way too damn strong…

  129. raymagnetic December 4th, 2007 at 1:26 pm

    How can you all be satisfied with losing in the playoffs when you have a $200+ million payroll Maybe because it’s not our money?

  130. erikp December 4th, 2007 at 1:27 pm

    GOTWINS..

    You can join the blog and say whatever you want (in your sub-literate English even), but don’t expect anyone to take you seriously if you are saying you value Liriano more than Santana.

  131. GOTWINS! December 4th, 2007 at 1:27 pm

    Brandon (Proud supporter of “ALEX BEING ALEX”) December 4th, 2007 at 1:25 pm

    GoTwins!, I got a question when Bill Smith is fired, Liriano throws out his arm, Lester follows the same path 4.– ERA and continues w/ his control problems then health becomes a concern w/ him again. What then did you trade Santana for ? would you be happy w/ that ?

    same thing that happens when hughes has a 4+ era and melky still hits .280 with 7 hrs

    i mean. did you seriously ask that question??

  132. raymagnetic December 4th, 2007 at 1:27 pm

    hey raymagnetic,

    with all of those EXCUSES, you’re starting to sound like a Red Sux fan… not a yankees fan.

    if, if, if, if, if…

    Do you even know the DEFINITION of excuse?

  133. GOTWINS! December 4th, 2007 at 1:27 pm

    erikp December 4th, 2007 at 1:27 pm

    GOTWINS..

    You can join the blog and say whatever you want (in your sub-literate English even), but don’t expect anyone to take you seriously if you are saying you value Liriano more than Santana.

    you havent seen liriano pitch..
    and like i mentioned.. in 2006.. he would have won the cy young if he didnt get hurt..

  134. Flam December 4th, 2007 at 1:28 pm

    If i had a dime everytime Sweeny freakin’ Murti claimed something and it turned out false Id have alot of dimes.

  135. GreenBeret7 December 4th, 2007 at 1:28 pm

    Matt
    December 4th, 2007 at 1:12 pm
    How can you all be satisfied with losing in the playoffs when you have a $200+ million payroll…If I were a Yankees fan I would want them to make some major moves to get some pitching…The Twins and Yankees should be perfect trading partners IMO…Yankees have a surplus of offense, Twins need offense…Just offer up Cano and be done with it, Yankees could more than take the hit to their offense…The Yankees could take the hit of losing Cano without adding someone to replace him, and that is undoubtedly not going to happen, they would sign the best FA to replace Cano…

    _________________________________________________

    Why don’t you go whine and cry on one of the local talk shows about who Bill Smith just got shafted and seems quite happy and proud of it?

  136. PB in DC December 4th, 2007 at 1:29 pm

    Pinstriped Playa, is that you Uncle Vito???

    haha, I bet it is!

    cheers

  137. GOTWINS! December 4th, 2007 at 1:29 pm

    Chicago Dave – you live in chicago? and your a yankee fan?? im guessing.. ok. no point in reading your posts anymore..

  138. S.o.S.27 December 4th, 2007 at 1:29 pm

    GOTWINS-“as a twins fan.
    ill take liriano over johan anyday”

    I guess as a twins fan that is a way to justify your owner being a cheap a$$. Your owner would prefer to pocket the money and sell you on the youngters comming up than forking over the dough.

    Twins are a lifelong rebuilding team.

    Good luck with being in the cellar year after year(K.C. dont count they are aaaa team).

  139. Vader December 4th, 2007 at 1:29 pm

    Nothing you can do if the Twins GM wants get fleeced. If this deal goes through the Sawx have to be laughing all the way back to Beantown.

  140. GOTWINS! December 4th, 2007 at 1:30 pm

    whozat

    yes, liriano is actually expected to be pitching winter ball..
    and he will be in the rotation.. he has not pitched in over 12 months

  141. CaptainsCorner December 4th, 2007 at 1:30 pm

    No one knows what Horne or Jackson are going to be..You can get a sure thing right now. Why sign Arod to a $275m deal if the Yanks aren’t going to go all out for a #1 starter??!! They overpaid him by about $40m and they are going to let 1 prospect keep them away from being a competitive team. If they are going into the season with 3 kids in the rotation they are going to be a 80 win team and wont be able to match up with any team let alone Boston.

  142. erikp December 4th, 2007 at 1:30 pm

    “and like i mentioned.. in 2006.. he would have won the cy young if he didnt get hurt..”

    But the fact is he did get hurt, and regardless of how good he was before the injury (and yes, he was very good), he has to be looked at differently now. Not to mention that they hand out Cy Youngs for actual performance, not imagined performance.

  143. GOTWINS! December 4th, 2007 at 1:31 pm

    S.o.S.27

    obviously you dont read my posts.
    otherwise you would know that i hate the fact the twins management doesnt spend money…

    but, it is nice to be competetive spending $70-$80 mil
    then be a loser spending $180mil

    thanks tho.
    no point in reading your posts anymore

  144. sunny615 December 4th, 2007 at 1:31 pm

    GOTWINS, you can’t apply the blindness to one pitcher – Liriano – “who could’ve won the Cy Young had he not blown up his elbow”, and then accuse another young pitcher who’s 4+ era was due to his hamstring and ankle injury which clearly affected his velocity and control attributing to his struggles upon his return but was starting to show his brilliance during his no-no attempt in Texas.

    This is the same bias you’re accusing us of when we talk about our team … it’s call hypocrisy.

  145. PB in DC December 4th, 2007 at 1:32 pm

    Kyle From CT,

    Ok, thanks for the revision. For what it is worth, that is at least a reasonable opinion… though I still don’t agree with it.

    If DiceK was a Yankee, would we be giving up on him after ONE season in the MLs???

    I think not.

    I don’t think he’s a 1, and the Sux defintely over paid, but he’s probably a solid 2-3 type starter… I’d be psyched if Kennedy and Hughes turned out to be solid 2-3 type starters year in and year out… keep that in mind.

  146. GOTWINS! December 4th, 2007 at 1:32 pm

    erikp

    im not saying he wont be looked at differently..

    my god, do you guys read posts? or just certain parts and then come back with some sort of response??

    yes he did get hurt, he has not pitched in over 12 months..

    would the twins trade johan if they didnt expect liriano back at 100%? i doubt it

  147. YankeeFan December 4th, 2007 at 1:34 pm

    haha… always have to laugh at the people who come to another person’s site to talk trash

  148. erikp December 4th, 2007 at 1:35 pm

    “would the twins trade johan if they didnt expect liriano back at 100%? i doubt it”

    Of course they would. They’re trading Johan because of his contract situation.

  149. Johan Schmohan December 4th, 2007 at 1:35 pm

    Twins are being reasonable in their asking price for Johan. He is the best pitcher out there. Losing Hughes AND Kennedy just doesn’t make sense. You lose depth in your pitching. If an injury happens, you kinda need Kennedy there to wait in the wings. Injuries will happen and you don’t want to go through what the Yankees went through last year.

    Not getting Santana won’t hurt the Yankees. The Red Sox getting Santana will hurt the Yankees.

    Santana
    Wang
    Pettite
    Chamberlain
    Moose

    That’s a wonderful rotation to have, but so is;
    Wang
    Hughes
    Pettite
    Chamberlain
    Moose

    Too much drama going around with Johan. Whoever gets him, gets him and in the end it’ll be the same ole story in the AL East – Yanks v. Red Sox as both teams are configured nicely to make a run as they stand now.

    Also remember that the AL central has improved greatly in the past season and that is when Johan’s numbers slid down. One has to ask if the pitching ability of Johan relied on the weakness of the AL central in seasons before 2007.

  150. NYY December 4th, 2007 at 1:35 pm

    Yanksrule57
    December 4th, 2007 at 12:57 pm
    Kasey,

    Let me get this straight, first the Yanks made a mistake by not panicking (I guess you mean overpaying)over Dice-K, then they panicked afterwards? How so?

    KEI IGAWA

  151. GOTWINS! December 4th, 2007 at 1:35 pm

    sunny615 December 4th, 2007 at 1:31 pm

    GOTWINS, you can’t apply the blindness to one pitcher – Liriano – “who could’ve won the Cy Young had he not blown up his elbow”, and then accuse another young pitcher who’s 4+ era was due to his hamstring and ankle injury which clearly affected his velocity and control attributing to his struggles upon his return but was starting to show his brilliance during his no-no attempt in Texas.

    This is the same bias you’re accusing us of when we talk about our team … it’s call hypocrisy.

    your right, i cannot.
    the individual asked me how would i feel if liriano blew out his elbow, and lester has a +4 era and if smith was fired..
    well, in that individuals mind all those things are going to happen, but hughes adn melky are going to be ??? good??

    please.. hughes and melky could get hurt..
    so dont respond to something if you dont know what may or may not happen

  152. Steve Howe You Doin December 4th, 2007 at 1:35 pm

    You watch the spin coming from Boston after this – Theo will be bronzed, with Gammons applying the spray paint.

    The hypocrisy is maddening.

  153. sunny615 December 4th, 2007 at 1:36 pm

    How are the Yankees being a “loser” at $180 mil with the second best record in baseball (at 94-68 tied with LAD and behind only Cleveland and Boston 96-66 (only two games back)) and won the WildCard in 2007 but the Twins are “competitive” when they finished third with a losing record of 79-83?

  154. NYY December 4th, 2007 at 1:37 pm

    One has to ask if the pitching ability of Johan relied on the weakness of the AL central in seasons before 2007.

    It’s not like he struggled against Yankees. He is 3-0 over his career with 2.XX ERA. And at Yankee Stadium he is 2-0 with a filthy 1.17 ERA.

  155. Matt December 4th, 2007 at 1:37 pm

    SJ44-

    What does comparing owners have to do with a baseball team…Pohlad prolly couldn’t even fill out a scorecard…he is basically in a vegetable-like state right now, (he’s like 90 or something)…He doesn’t do much baseball, he just owns and tells them where to cap spending…anyways if you would like to compare the two teams efficiency then you are going to a bad place…

    Garza isn’t better than Hughes

    Liriano isn’t better than Santana

  156. GreenBeret7 December 4th, 2007 at 1:39 pm

    GOTWINS!
    December 4th, 2007 at 1:27 pm
    Brandon (Proud supporter of “ALEX BEING ALEX”) December 4th, 2007 at 1:25 pm

    GoTwins!, I got a question when Bill Smith is fired, Liriano throws out his arm, Lester follows the same path 4.– ERA and continues w/ his control problems then health becomes a concern w/ him again. What then did you trade Santana for ? would you be happy w/ that ?

    same thing that happens when hughes has a 4+ era and melky still hits .280 with 7 hrs

    i mean. did you seriously ask that question??

    ____________________________________________________
    Maybe so, but, the Yankees didn’t give up Santana for that abortion they accepted.

  157. GOTWINS! December 4th, 2007 at 1:39 pm

    sunny615 December 4th, 2007 at 1:36 pm

    How are the Yankees being a “loser” at $180 mil with the second best record in baseball (at 94-68 tied with LAD and behind only Cleveland and Boston 96-66 (only two games back)) and won the WildCard in 2007 but the Twins are “competitive” when they finished third with a losing record of 79-83?

    the yanks are expected to win.

    twins?? ehh, not nearly as much as the yanks are

  158. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") December 4th, 2007 at 1:39 pm

    same thing that happens when hughes has a 4+ era and melky still hits .280 with 7 hrs

    i mean. did you seriously ask that question??

    GoTwins!, LOL I’m going to let it be, you were better off dealing w/ the Mets atleast you’d get Gomez,Heilman, Pelfrey and Humber oh boy can’t wait

  159. migames December 4th, 2007 at 1:39 pm

    who cares about the twins? Honestly?! Who cares about the twins. Why does everyone on this board trying to convince twinfan that his team sucks?

    Why is twinfan on this board to begin with?

    This is childish

  160. GOTWINS! December 4th, 2007 at 1:40 pm

    GreenBeret7 December 4th, 2007 at 1:39 pm

    GOTWINS!
    December 4th, 2007 at 1:27 pm
    Brandon (Proud supporter of “ALEX BEING ALEX”) December 4th, 2007 at 1:25 pm

    GoTwins!, I got a question when Bill Smith is fired, Liriano throws out his arm, Lester follows the same path 4.– ERA and continues w/ his control problems then health becomes a concern w/ him again. What then did you trade Santana for ? would you be happy w/ that ?

    same thing that happens when hughes has a 4+ era and melky still hits .280 with 7 hrs

    i mean. did you seriously ask that question??

    ____________________________________________________
    Maybe so, but, the Yankees didn’t give up Santana for that abortion they accepted.

    hahaha…
    and the yanks dont have Johan..
    your point would be???

  161. Reality Check December 4th, 2007 at 1:41 pm

    Clear inequity here. We gave them the 2 names they mentioned at the beginning of the discussions and the bosux gave them neither name that was asked of them. Having said that, one can make the argument that we should have allowed ourselves to be fleeced by icluding Tabata or Jackson because there is an urgency in the Yankees situation. Posada, Jeter, Alex, Mo, etc. are all in their 30s. It is very much a win now situation. Why pay all that money for the guys this winter and allow Santana to go to the bosux and to trust 3/5s of their rotaion to the kids. Not sure I subscribe to this theory, but it is compelling.

  162. GOTWINS! December 4th, 2007 at 1:42 pm

    # migames December 4th, 2007 at 1:39 pm

    who cares about the twins? Honestly?! Who cares about the twins. Why does everyone on this board trying to convince twinfan that his team sucks?

    Why is twinfan on this board to begin with?

    This is childish

    exactly.. i came here to talk baseball
    but yanks fans have their head so far up ther a$$es that all they do is argue.

    geesh, a twins fan cant talk to a yankee fan about baseball?
    it is childish

  163. Kyle From CT December 4th, 2007 at 1:43 pm

    PB in DC-

    I agree about Dice-K, but like so many of the pitchers I’m talking about its all speculation. I can’t comment until i see what they do. I wasn’t impressed with Dice-K at all last year but if he comes out this year winning 20 games i’ll be eating my words.. So we’ll see. Bottom line is, the Yanks need the Twins to just walk away from everything and keep Santana for 08. Then everyone can go after him next year.

  164. GreenBeret7 December 4th, 2007 at 1:46 pm

    GOTWINS!
    December 4th, 2007 at 1:40 pm
    GreenBeret7 December 4th, 2007 at 1:39 pm

    GOTWINS!
    December 4th, 2007 at 1:27 pm
    Brandon (Proud supporter of “ALEX BEING ALEX”) December 4th, 2007 at 1:25 pm

    GoTwins!, I got a question when Bill Smith is fired, Liriano throws out his arm, Lester follows the same path 4.– ERA and continues w/ his control problems then health becomes a concern w/ him again. What then did you trade Santana for ? would you be happy w/ that ?

    same thing that happens when hughes has a 4+ era and melky still hits .280 with 7 hrs

    i mean. did you seriously ask that question??

    ____________________________________________________
    Maybe so, but, the Yankees didn’t give up Santana for that abortion they accepted.

    hahaha…
    and the yanks dont have Johan..
    your point would be???

    _________________________________________________
    He’s not going to be in NY because the Twins and the fans have an idiot that turned down a superior package and everybody in baseball knows it…INCLUDING BILL SMITH. If ever a person was trying to get fired, Smith couldn’t have done a better job of it. Somehow, I seriously doubt that Terry Ryan is very happy right now.

  165. Frankie Yankee December 4th, 2007 at 1:47 pm

    VOIII

    You are out of your mind. You would make that trade because Dontrelle’s personality is a good fit? wow – what about his loss of velocity and horrible record over the past 2 years, in the national league. Trading away Cano is ludicrous, why would you trade a potential .300, 25-30 HR guy who is cheap?

  166. Matt December 4th, 2007 at 1:47 pm

    Santana is double the pitcher Josh Beckett is…

  167. sunny615 December 4th, 2007 at 1:52 pm

    GOTWINS!
    December 4th, 2007 at 1:39 pm

    the yanks are expected to win.

    twins?? ehh, not nearly as much as the yanks are

    ———–
    That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. Every team’s goal is winning. If not, Pohlad should fold up shop and sell the team… wait a minute – I think he tried that already…

  168. NYY December 4th, 2007 at 1:54 pm

    Santana is double the pitcher Josh Beckett is…

    Agreed but only in regular season.(2 CY Youngs etc etc)

    Beckett has proved to be a beast when it comes to post-season.(1 World series MVP + 1 ALDS MVP etc etc)

    If given a choice of Santana Vs Beckett I will take Beckett for his post season accomplishments.

  169. vrsce December 4th, 2007 at 1:57 pm

    Let’s hope that Santana is traded to somebody soon, so that these Twin bloggers can get off this site and leave us to contend with the Bosox posters. A higher level of rival than those posers from the AL Central.

  170. Johan Schmohan December 4th, 2007 at 2:03 pm

    NYY,

    Santana pitches well against the Yanks so far. They don’t see him that often and that helps Santana. Getting familiar with Santana helps the Yankees. The AL Central has gotten very familiar with Santana and now that the AL Central is actually better than it used to be Santana’s numbers went down significantly. Going into the AL East will not help Santana as there are better hitters throughout the teams in the AL East.

    Whichever team he goes to, he has to face a strong linuep on the other side. Red Sox will hit him hard as will the Yankees. He won’t be as great in the AL East as he was in the weaker years of the AL Central.

    What this trade is all about is not getting Santana, but making the Red Sox or the Yankees get weaker by trading away A-class prospects.

  171. Real World December 4th, 2007 at 2:07 pm

    Guys calm down and talk baseball. 80)

    The Yankees offer has higher end talent, but is thinner when it comes to the supplementary pieces. The Twins probably feel that the disparity of Hughes over Lester isn’t as valuable as the benefit of Masterson & Lowry versus the Yankees “B” throw in. The lists in question are interesting in that Hughes is the best piece period, but what comes with him is a significant drop off. The Lester deal doesn’t have the ceiling, but fills a couple of needs, and offers two prospects of need, and the Ellsbury package gives them the player they covet, but the only piece that is really a given to stick. Were I the Twins it would be the Ellsbury deal for me. Without knowing what the B piece is with the Yankees, I can’t say which would be next.

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