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Steinbrenner: Santana deal not happening

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Dec 04, 2007 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Man of the People Hank Steinbrenner said that his deadline stands and the Yankees are out of the mix for Johan Santana.

“We tried and Brian (Cashman) worked all night and it didn’t work out,” he said. “But I’m OK with keeping (Phil) Hughes and (Ian) Kennedy.”

The Angels denied reports that were involved. The Dodgers? They have the prospects but not the desire to sign Santana to a $125 million deal.

That leaves the Red Sox, who may or may not want to make the investment. Don’t forget, they once made a trade for Alex Rodriguez that was canceled because they couldn’t come to an agreement on his contract.

You also have to think the Yankees told the Twins not to make any moves before checking back with them first.

As for Cashman, we met with him for 10 minutes or so and he ducked every question like Kevin Youkilis facing Joba Chamberlain. He said the trades they are discussing are not major ones.

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334 Responses to “Steinbrenner: Santana deal not happening”

  1. Buddy Biancalana December 4th, 2007 at 8:32 pm

    Sounds good to me.

  2. Adam December 4th, 2007 at 8:32 pm

    DId Cash say ANYTHING regarding ANYTHING?

  3. nate c. December 4th, 2007 at 8:33 pm

    Did he speak english? Or just mutter words?!

  4. Jeff NJ December 4th, 2007 at 8:34 pm

    Ah that’s right, we still have Joba Chamberlain on our team. He’s under our control for what, 5 years? Sweet.

  5. Russell W December 4th, 2007 at 8:35 pm

    I’m fine with Hughes and Kennedy. The chance of 1 of 2 of these guys succeeding is far worth giving both of them up with Melky and paying $150 million to be sure about one.

  6. Deryck December 4th, 2007 at 8:35 pm

    I have to think Wilson Betemit is on the block. If even for a young middle market prospect.

  7. Bbig December 4th, 2007 at 8:35 pm

    That last statement regarding Cashman dodging comments like Youk dodging joba is a classic.

    I’d loved it when joba through over youks head twice in a row. I wonder if beards are included as contact when it comes to chin music. sox fans who are friends still bitch about that.

  8. Rafael December 4th, 2007 at 8:35 pm

    Well that sucks, guess I’ll go type some papers up now.

  9. Searay December 4th, 2007 at 8:35 pm

    Sounds good to me too!

  10. The Fallen Phoenix December 4th, 2007 at 8:36 pm

    Sometimes no news is good news. The Cash Man isn’t at all obligated to tip his hand and discuss delicate trade talks that might or might not collapse at any given time. Would it be nice to get inside his head? Of course it would, but I’d imagine there are twenty-nine GMs who would love to, too.

  11. sunny615 December 4th, 2007 at 8:36 pm

    Oh well, Cash should have just stayed home instead of bothering with these meetings. All he did it seems was chill out in his hotel room all week.

  12. Nud December 4th, 2007 at 8:36 pm

    should be interesting to see if the Sox pull off this Santana heist…..Yanks are making the right call by not including Kennedy but I hope Horne wasn’t the deal breaker

  13. Phil December 4th, 2007 at 8:36 pm

    I’m glad Cashman doesn’t open his mouth…in negotiations it is not always best to let everyone know exactly what you want to do.

  14. eric December 4th, 2007 at 8:36 pm

    I love Hank, but public declarations need to end.

    Our deals have always been done best in silence. Clemens, A-Rod, Abreu, Knoblauch.

    Arod and the red sox prooved doing deals out in public dosnt work well.

  15. Unionville, CT December 4th, 2007 at 8:36 pm

    My guess….Santana traded to the Sox….can’t reach a deal contractually….returns to twins and says he’ll only play for the Yanks

  16. stuart December 4th, 2007 at 8:37 pm

    Oh my god.. the woosies on this site will have there panties in a uproar….

    how can the yankees go into next season without; desalvo, henn, clippard, andy phillips, and there back up catcher from opening day and expect to be a good team???

    really hughes is done, IPK stinks, cano is getting old, etc..

    they only had the best record the 2nd half of the season..

    they should just give up… there young players throut the organization have absolutely no upside….

    after all boston resigned timlin and may lose gagne it is over… and the tigers do not need zumaya, rogers being a yr. older is a blessing for them but not for the yankee old guys.

    also detroit does not need any fielders becuase well because.

    OH MY GOD AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

  17. Russell W December 4th, 2007 at 8:37 pm

    Jeff – Wang isn’t a free agent until after 2011 so we should have Chaimberlain and Hughes until about 2012-2013. That is SWEEET!

  18. Matthew Cohen December 4th, 2007 at 8:37 pm

    If I’m the Sox, I make the trade.
    Ellsbury, Lester and 1 other.

    Santana replaces Lester and Coco stays in center. You could do worse than Coco in center. Ellsbury is not exactly the next Ken Griffey.

    Beckett, Santana, Buchholz and Mats – I think that they win 3 series in 6 years with that rotation if they can hit at all. With Beckett signed for cheap, Mats at $10mm and Buchholz cheap, you can have that rotation for cheap and still spend money on a good to great lineup with their budget.

  19. Searay December 4th, 2007 at 8:37 pm

    All 2 days of all week.

  20. Deryck December 4th, 2007 at 8:38 pm

    I’m of the thought that:

    Hughes (13-16 wins)
    Melky (CF)
    Prospects (Horne, et al)
    150m in pocket

    is more valuable than:

    Santana (20-22 wins)
    -150m

  21. Rafael December 4th, 2007 at 8:38 pm

    Whoever thinks Boston won’t lock up Santana is mistaken. They gave up $50mil just for the rights to Dice-K. They will definitely give up the goods for Santana.

  22. Kill-Schill(ing) December 4th, 2007 at 8:38 pm

    Some outlet in Providence is reporting that the Red Sox may acquire Santana for GET THIS

    1) Lester
    2) Lowrie
    3) Kalish

    NO MASTERSON. You got to be kidding me?

    My greatest hope, at this juncture, is that the Twins do an A-Rod and come back to the Yankees and accept a deal of Melky, Hughes, Marquez and/or the Alberto Gonzo.

  23. Todd December 4th, 2007 at 8:38 pm

    Lester, masterson, kalish : these are the 3 guys Twins will be getting……………that’s all!!!!!!!!!

  24. gayle December 4th, 2007 at 8:38 pm

    The Youkilis/Chamberlain line has to be one of your top ten Pete. The question is what is considered major. Obviously Santana is considered major but smaller trades that might get us some bullpen help would be welcome.

  25. Rebecca--Optimist Prime December 4th, 2007 at 8:39 pm

    I love life right now.

  26. JJNJ December 4th, 2007 at 8:39 pm

    Best news I’ve heard all day.

  27. Crosetti December 4th, 2007 at 8:39 pm

    I´m happy the Yankees didn´t bite. Our youngsters will give the team an interesting face, without the irrational costs derived from a superstar deal.

    We´ll love this team for years and decades.

  28. Master Wangkee December 4th, 2007 at 8:40 pm

    What’s stopping the Twins from crawling back at the last minute for Hughes/Melky/Marquez?

    Oh yeah…Coco Crisp. I should’ve known.

  29. stuart December 4th, 2007 at 8:40 pm

    mat cohen let me get your stupidity.. hughes and joba are unproven but Buchholtz is a sure thing…

    yeah and beckett is a sure thing like 2 yrs ago.. 30 + HR’s…

    I love boston clowns… there life is so pathetic they come to a yankee site to spout there stupidity..

  30. Russell W December 4th, 2007 at 8:40 pm

    “I’m glad Cashman doesn’t open his mouth…in negotiations it is not always best to let everyone know exactly what you want to do.”

    Just responding to what you are implying here… Hank is not an idiot – he isn’t an out-of-control fool who is carelessly giving away his intentions. It is up to everyone else to decide whether or not to trust what he says.

  31. TFKJ December 4th, 2007 at 8:41 pm

    Yankees confirm that if the Twins are ready to pull the trigger on a Boston trade, the Yankees want one more shot. Adding Ian Kennedy to Hughes and another player likely will pull this one out of the fire.

  32. yanksrule December 4th, 2007 at 8:42 pm

    Sometimes the best trades are the ones you dont make.

  33. Annie Savoy December 4th, 2007 at 8:42 pm

    I think I’m the only one on this blog who did not want the Santana trade and I am very happy that it will not occur.

    I hope Hank Steinbrenner continues to speak his mind on behalf of his Dad and the family.

  34. Rafael December 4th, 2007 at 8:43 pm

    TFKJ, any link or just your wish?

  35. stuart December 4th, 2007 at 8:43 pm

    TFKJ shut up with your BS. You have no clue…

  36. Deryck December 4th, 2007 at 8:43 pm

    Add Kennedy? That makes no sense. Ask yourself, who would you rather have?

    Santana 23m/yr and Alan Horne 363k/yr

    -or-

    Hughes 363k/yr and Kennedy 363k/yr

  37. gayle December 4th, 2007 at 8:43 pm

    Why is it that some people think that unless you do a trade during these meetings then you are useless and wasting your time. Who says that discussions that my have started at these meetings might not in a few weeks or months end up being a part of a trade or discussion that you may have with agents might end up being something ie Alan Nero Wang’s agent saying he wants to discuss a long term deal with the Yanks, and the Yanks said ok give us a proposal (according to Newsday). Just because nothing major has happened yet does not mean it will not.

  38. COCO CRISP December 4th, 2007 at 8:43 pm

    I AM JUNK CEREAL THE HOTTEST COMMODITY IN BASEBALL!!!

  39. filthy slider December 4th, 2007 at 8:43 pm

    as long as the sux don’t get him, if they do “hoof & mouth disease hank” will be looking at 2nd for a long time, then again the way tampa is improving it might be 3rd place.WAKE UP HANKIE

  40. Grant December 4th, 2007 at 8:44 pm

    Deryck, it’s not about wins in a season, the Yankees will get the wild card with the offense alone, it’s about matching up with Cleveland, Boston, and now Detroit in te playoffs. Having said that, you’re in that losing out on Johan isn’t that bad because it would have been really expensive. I hope he ends up staying with the twins, at least that way he might hit the market or ad at a cheaper, trade dealine price.

  41. stuart December 4th, 2007 at 8:44 pm

    annie many were against the trade. more were against the fleecing then for it.

    these people that want to give the farm away would be bitching in 6 months why the yanks have no good young prospects..

    they are rotissiere geeks…

  42. Crosetti December 4th, 2007 at 8:44 pm

    yanksrule: you are right.

    Besides, JoeG will work wonders out of the kids.

  43. Kurt December 4th, 2007 at 8:45 pm

    Dont trade both kennedy and Hughes in the same trade. We know what Santana can do but we really dont know what hughes and Kennedy and even Joba is going to be. They could be busts but I think from what we have seen that won’t be the case and who knows we could be the next Hudson Zito Mulder for years to come.

  44. Felipe from Brazil December 4th, 2007 at 8:45 pm

    if the bosox don’t lock up Santana now they will have to outbid the yankees next year when he becomes FA, so I guess it’s acurate to tell they’re in this for real… anyway I hope I’m wrong

  45. Russell W December 4th, 2007 at 8:46 pm

    “One of La Velle E. Neal III’s sources told him the Twins and Red Sox, as of 7:20 p.m. CST, were still haggling over names in a Johan Santana deal.
    Neal doesn’t know if there’s anyone besides the Red Sox still in the mix for Santana at the moment. Conflicting rumors have left it unclear whether the Red Sox have added Ryan Kalish to a package that supposedly included Jon Lester, Coco Crisp, Jed Lowrie and Justin Masterson.”

    This has been talked about to the point of exhaustion. Does anybody wonder why the Angels (who have apparently lost out on the Cabrera deal and want to spend money), the Yankees (who would like a big-name pitcher but set a deadline), the Dodgers (who have enough prospects to land a big name pitcher), and the Marlins (who also have enough prospects) are not even entertaining the idea of signing Santana?

    Hmm…

  46. jimcobain December 4th, 2007 at 8:46 pm

    All I am going to say is this… The Atlanta Braves had 3 aces on their team for 10+ years, they also had REALLY solid 4 and 5 starters for about 8 of those years. And they won 1 world series. The Oakland A’s had 3 aces of their own for 5 years and couldn’t get out of the first round. The Red Sox were considered the major’s “best team” last year and the Yankees finished two games behind after being 14.5 back. The Yankees will be there in the end. Don’t worry.

  47. CaptainsCorner December 4th, 2007 at 8:46 pm

    Hank shut up already!! I don’t understand why he thinks he to act like a big bully with his comments. And where did it get him? Nowhere because Boston just got the best pitcher in baseball. Also why are you announcing that you are out of the deal so Boston gets him for nothing now. Just keep quite. He has a lot to learn about dealing with the media, and when to shut up!! He really sounds like a fool! Hank keep spending your money on Arod.

  48. Marcy December 4th, 2007 at 8:46 pm

    Thanks, Pete. I guess this mean you can just sort of hang around and enjoy yourself while watching your colleagues write about the teams they’re covering making exciting deals ;-). Anyway, it’s freezing here and now we have a few months to think about the Red Sox and the Tigers, hmmm…

  49. Maverick December 4th, 2007 at 8:47 pm

    I’d say that Beckett, Santana, and Dice-K are better than Hudson Mulder Zito have ever been or ever thought of being

  50. Deryck December 4th, 2007 at 8:47 pm

    Grant, that’s exactly how I am. If you lock Santana up for 23m for 5-6 years where does that leave you when Chamberlain, Hughes (or Kennedy), Cano among others are ready or are already hitting the FA period. Plus, you will be minus Rivera, Posada, Damon, Matsui etc because of retirement. If you think we can get guys with Cano-type production at a young age at everyone of those spots you’re young.

    I know money isn’t an issue, but two guys making 50m a quarter of your salary when you are getting old is problematic

  51. Whose the REAL Evil Empire? December 4th, 2007 at 8:48 pm

    Because it sounds like Bill Smith wants to have Theo’s babies. Thats why everyone bailed out on the idea.

  52. Whose the REAL Evil Empire? December 4th, 2007 at 8:49 pm

    Maverick
    December 4th, 2007 at 8:47 pm
    I’d say that Beckett, Santana, and Dice-K are better than Hudson Mulder Zito have ever been or ever thought of being

    And Dice-K is that good because???? LOL overrated and overpaid.

  53. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 8:49 pm

    Just my thought:

    Hank is strategically saying the Yanks have NO interest in Santana now – to discourage the Sox from getting and paying him. If the Sox are happy with preventing the Yanks, they win.

  54. Back Bay Yankee December 4th, 2007 at 8:49 pm

    We should definitely start a fan movement to title Stubby Steinbrenner “MAN OF THE PEOPLE” for his Castro/Chavez-like pronouncements. It just fits his personality so well.

  55. willis December 4th, 2007 at 8:49 pm

    Cash is playing “good cop” to Hank’s bad cop… bet he has told Smith to give him a chance to change Hank’s mind before a deal with Boston goes down

  56. willis December 4th, 2007 at 8:49 pm

    Cash is playing “good cop” to Hank’s bad cop… bet he has told Smith to give him a chance to change Hank’s mind before a deal with Boston goes down

  57. J-Dawg December 4th, 2007 at 8:49 pm

    Good decision by the Yankees to move on. They have other things to be concerned with besides getting Santana. The bullpen needs a Band-Aid now. And I am pumped about seeing this rotation go to work. Andy is back, CMW will get the job done, Joba could be absolutely dynamite, Phil can build on the great Game 3 peformance, and Ian was terrific in his stint in pinstripes. Plus Moose is always there and he would like to go out with a bang. Things appear to be just fine. Not getting Santana is OK, it’s definitely not the end of the world. This team can compete with anybody.

  58. Master Wangkee December 4th, 2007 at 8:49 pm

    Russell W:

    Excellent question.

    I’m convinced the Angels are in the mix.

  59. Jeff NJ December 4th, 2007 at 8:50 pm

    And Boston’s big three will cost about 20 times as much per year as Oakland’s. We’ll see how it works out down the road.

  60. gargoyle December 4th, 2007 at 8:50 pm

    The Red Sox will find a reason to back away from this deal.

  61. Fleas December 4th, 2007 at 8:50 pm

    Shame that alot of people here seem to be fashion-connoisseurs instead of baseball fans. It’s ridiculous to think Melky is ever going to be an all-star.. ladies stop having crushes on the players or not want to trade them because you are emotionally attached…

    Gentlemen, stop offering us your opinion when you really are just talking for the sake of talking, and have absolutely no idea what your are talking about.

    Maybe you can get away with that in college.. having an opinion for the sake of having one — and I know college encourages that, but it doesn’t fly here.. we are not trying to nurture under-developed minds..

    So just do us all a favor and hush. *You know who you are*

  62. Fleas December 4th, 2007 at 8:51 pm

    just to reiterate.. there are a lot of people on this blog that really do have a clue..

    the ones I am referring to know who they are.

  63. 2008islost December 4th, 2007 at 8:52 pm

    “they only had the best record the 2nd half of the season..”

    And they only got their asses whipped AGAIN in the first round of the playoffs.

    With Detroit becoming better than NY now, the Yanks won’t even make the playoffs.

  64. Deryck December 4th, 2007 at 8:52 pm

    Yankees trade with Nationals.

  65. The C's December 4th, 2007 at 8:52 pm

    Hope Santana goes to the Sox while the Yankee management listen to their rabid fandom and resign Crosby, Chacon and Cairo. Imagine a fan favorite line-up with Cano, Cabrera, Cairo, Crosby and then Chacon on the mound (Yes, Hughes would be resting because he’s not allowed to pitch near 200 innings til 2010). Would be so nice to cheer for young prospects who the fans have invested emotionally.

  66. Steve Balboni December 4th, 2007 at 8:53 pm

    If this trade doesn’t get done with the Yankees and Santana goes to the RS, there will be alot of pressure on the three young guns to produce. It will be interesting to see what PC Dave Eiland can do to continue their development. I think Girardi and Eiland can get that done.

  67. anthony December 4th, 2007 at 8:53 pm

    PLEASE YANKEES GET JOHAN. IF HE GOES TO THE RED SOX IT IS OVER FOR ABOUT 5 YEARS.

  68. COCO CRISP December 4th, 2007 at 8:53 pm

    JUNK CEREAL

    GET IT WHILE IT’S COLD!!!

  69. stuart December 4th, 2007 at 8:53 pm

    who thinks melky will be an allstar??/ I do think he is a much better value then mr. crisp if you think differently you area fool..

    Fleas I will bet in 6 yrs Hughes career will be much better then mr lester….

    the Yanks offered better value.. Value is a biz term so maybe you do not understand I am not sure if they use that term in comic books and video games…

  70. Bill Porter December 4th, 2007 at 8:53 pm

    I can see why folks are a little tired of Hank’s insatiable lust for any open microphone that happens to be near him. However, his comments in this will serve to protect Ca$h if things don’t work out in not making the deal; after all the owner endorsed not doing it. This seems to be a break with the past and the way things used to be done. There doesn’t seem to be a ready made scape goat created here other than Hank and I don’t see him firing himself.

  71. TFKJ December 4th, 2007 at 8:54 pm

    stuart …I have more CLUE than you, meester. Check out the blog in the AM and see what the “scoop” is then, K ?

  72. Kurt December 4th, 2007 at 8:54 pm

    I can’t believe I am reading reports about how Girardi and Cash are like worshiping Farnsworth. I hope its for trading purposes and boosting his stock unless Girardi knows how to fix him.

  73. Hank Steinbrenner December 4th, 2007 at 8:54 pm

    I was also quoted as saying:

    “A deadline is a deadline, It was pretty much done as of this morning. He’s a fine pitcher, but there’s a lot of things that go into this. This isn’t fantasy baseball.”

  74. PittsburghYankeeFan December 4th, 2007 at 8:54 pm

    Fleas

    Who are you? This is the internet, and a blog.

    How long have you been reading and posting here to get off with an arrogant post like that?

  75. COCO CRISP December 4th, 2007 at 8:55 pm

    I AM JUNK CEREAL.

    THERE IS NOTHING BETTER IN BASEBALL!

    JUNK CEREAL > PUJOLS.

  76. 2008islost December 4th, 2007 at 8:55 pm

    “Who says that discussions that my have started at these meetings might not in a few weeks or months end up being a part of a trade or discussion that you may have with agents might end up being something ie Alan Nero Wang’s agent saying he wants to discuss a long term deal with the Yanks, and the Yanks said ok give us a proposal (according to Newsday).”

    Great, so Wang can pose as a number one starter and choke in big games for many years to come

  77. stuart December 4th, 2007 at 8:55 pm

    yeah detroit is better then the yanks since the lost zumaya for a yr. but added dontrell and his steller NL ERA.. That is right he just had a bad 2 yrs…

    man the panic from these little boys is comical…..

  78. Butch Wynegar December 4th, 2007 at 8:55 pm

    jimcain—–
    me likes the way you think. that’s an outstanding fact and comparison about Atlanta, i’m coming off my ledge now.

    thank you

  79. Jennifer - Save Phil Hughes! December 4th, 2007 at 8:56 pm

    Wow where did all these people come from? What happened to all the regulars. All of a sudden we have all these doom and gloom people. Why don’t you call Cash and tell him the Yankees shouldn’t even bother playing, lets just give the ws trophy to the soxs.

  80. A-Point December 4th, 2007 at 8:56 pm

    I’m with you Deryck.

    I think we will see some good things come out of this coming season, regardless if the Sox have Johan or not. Something tells me that all this talk over how the Twinkies are getting hosed will give BS cold feet over all this.

  81. Cumberberg December 4th, 2007 at 8:56 pm

    ESPN is running a poll on it’s website: “If Santana is traded to Boston, which team would get the better deal”? Overall, 72% think Boston gets the better deal. The state-by-state look is priceless — in Mass., 84% think Boston gets the better deal; in Minn., 59% think Boston gets the better deal, albeit a small sample size.

  82. alvaro espinoza December 4th, 2007 at 8:57 pm

    if there’s one thing i’ve learned over these past several days, it’s that “fleecing” and “posturing” are really cool words to use on baseball blogs.

  83. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 8:57 pm

    Maybe the Sox added Kalish but expected the Twins to add someone as well…. the longer this takes… the more chances there are for it to fall apart.

  84. Deryck December 4th, 2007 at 8:57 pm

    “Great, so Wang can pose as a number one starter and choke in big games for many years to come”

    Typical Yankee support. We’d probably be better off without a pitcher who is 46-18 and a 3.74 ERA over his career. Find me 3 number one’s with better numbers.

  85. Hank Steinbrenner December 4th, 2007 at 8:57 pm

    There is no way we will negotiate with Alex Rodriguez! He doesnt want to be a Yankee, and we dont want him!

    …nevermind

  86. VOIII December 4th, 2007 at 8:58 pm

    CapCorner,
    Read between the lines, Hank and the Yankee brass know the twinkies and the sux are full of $h!t…Relax, the Sox are done spending insane money. The Fifty they spent on Dice did not count against the luxury threshold…Santana’s 150 mil will.

  87. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 8:58 pm

    How can 41% of MN think its a good deal??

  88. Cumberberg December 4th, 2007 at 8:59 pm

    Boston Dave — Lots and lots of pot, crack, and crystal meth.

  89. Fleas December 4th, 2007 at 8:59 pm

    Hmm..

    “I know there’s a lot of speculation that we’re close to something big,” Red Sox general manager Theo Epstein said on Tuesday evening, according to The Associated Press. “Until we reach an agreement, then we’re not that close.”

  90. willis December 4th, 2007 at 8:59 pm

    Anyone have a guess what the Sux’s payroll would/will be if they do indeed sign Santana?

  91. whoa December 4th, 2007 at 9:00 pm

    Best. Non-move. Ever.

  92. Deryck December 4th, 2007 at 9:00 pm

    So if Boston goes out and buys all these players… do we have to put up with all the fans who support because its the big new thing?

    Wait, nevermind

  93. SJ44 December 4th, 2007 at 9:00 pm

    Yes because you know for a fact Wang will pitch poorly in every big game the rest of his career, right?

    Why aren’t you in Nashville getting a baseball job with such astute observations?

    Some of you chicken little’s really need to just take the leap and end it all.

    Its hysterical reading some of this drivel.

    This used to be a place that intelligent baseball talk took place.

    Now, its a room filled with crybabies.

    The Yankees didn’t get Johan Santana. Get over it.

    The Tigers are better. Really?

    Dontrelle Willis has pitched like garbage for almost two years. Cabrera is a great hitter. They gave up SIX players to acquire these guys. Including their two best prospects.

    Their bullpen is a mess without Zumaya and their starters after Verlander are question marks.

    But, yes, they are “better” so let’s end the season.

    Amazing to read some of this nonsense.

    Geez, no wonder why people hate Yankee fans.

    If you think the season is over before it starts, here’s a suggestion. Don’t bother posting here when the season starts.

  94. Phil December 4th, 2007 at 9:01 pm

    Russell, I wasn’t implying that at all. Nothing I typed mentioned Hank Stein. Read what was written. That is all that was meant.

  95. pat December 4th, 2007 at 9:02 pm

    Willis
    I was doing the math in my head on the ride home tonight and I came up with the difference between the Yankees and Sox payroll this year is roughly going to be A-Rod’s salary.

  96. Lauren December 4th, 2007 at 9:02 pm

    Maverick
    December 4th, 2007 at 8:47 pm
    I’d say that Beckett, Santana, and Dice-K are better than Hudson Mulder Zito have ever been or ever thought of being

    Whose the REAL Evil Empire?
    December 4th, 2007 at 8:49 pm
    And Dice-K is that good because???? LOL overrated and overpaid.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    WtREE: Totally agree! :)

  97. Fleas December 4th, 2007 at 9:03 pm

    But if the Red Sox wind up sweeping Santana out from under them — and adding him to a rotation that already includes Josh Beckett, Curt Schilling and Daisuke Matsuzaka — it will be fascinating to see if the Yankees feel the need to respond by reeling in another ace of their own.

    “If the Red Sox get Santana,” said an executive of one NL team that’s grateful to be in the other league, “they might be the best team in the history of the frigging universe.”

  98. gayle December 4th, 2007 at 9:04 pm

    2008is lost–

    I would take a 19 game winner 2 years in a row every year. Think about it if you can get Wang locked up now long term ( 3 years or so) you might catch a break later on in terms of how much you would have to pay him later. MOst time that the Yankees have done this with their own players the contracts look awfully good. Look at what the Mets did with Reyes and Wright they are bargains compared to what they would have gotten on the free agent market. Also if you get Wang signed up now you buy out his free agent year.

  99. hughesian bias December 4th, 2007 at 9:04 pm

    of course the lester package is not a good deal. mlb analysts on xm satellite radio said that there’s no way the red sox get santana without giving up either ellsbury or buchholz.

  100. Steve Balboni December 4th, 2007 at 9:05 pm

    Ditto SJ44. Why play the 08 season? it sounds like the yankees will go 0-162 without Santana.

  101. Rob NY December 4th, 2007 at 9:05 pm

    “If the Red Sox get Santana,” said an executive of one NL team that’s grateful to be in the other league, “they might be the best team in the history of the frigging universe.”

    i hear the Jupiter team has some real good young talent…. scared to let it develope theyre supposedly trading it away for a stud pitcher though.

  102. Fleas December 4th, 2007 at 9:05 pm

    SJ44

    You cannot deny, that is the Sox land Santana (especially for that weak pkg) ..

    that they do not have absolutely the best starting rotation in the majors.

  103. Mister Delaware December 4th, 2007 at 9:05 pm

    Anyone else think the resolution to this could end up being Minnesota adding Neshak to get Boston to add Ellsbury to Lester?

  104. dana December 4th, 2007 at 9:06 pm

    All of you naysayers really make me sick. Not ony did we clean Boston’s clock last season (after losing the first 5 of 6 games started by Chase Wright & the like, we owned them) but has anyone bothered to check Santana’s stats lately. They’ve been slowly declining the past several years, he gave up more way more home runs than ever before last year. His ERA against the Central blows – you know the teams he faces enough so that they knew to sit on his changeup & knock him around like he was Kei Igawa. Did you notice that Santana stopped using his slider (one of his best pitches) last year due to highly speculated arm troubles? The Jays & Orioles knock him around quite a bit as well. Spare me the theatrics by some of you spoiled drama queens. There is a reason they play the games & the Yankees know better than anyone that Paper Tigers get shredded all the time. Quit your whining. If you don’t like it go root for the team in Queens – they’re not that good but their league is so pitiful they should make the playoffs with ease.

  105. SAndMan December 4th, 2007 at 9:07 pm

    Glad the Yankees don’t have to face the Red Sox in the ALDS because we would lose.

  106. Cumberberg December 4th, 2007 at 9:07 pm

    Let me preface this by saying that I’m not asking this out of desparation:

    Objectively, if you were Santana, would you really want to pitch for Boston? Let’s assume for the moment that, as a top flight pitcher in the AL, Mr. Santana has a little bit of an ego. Would you rather go to a contender where you would be the staff ace, where folks would look to you to take them back to the promised land? Or would you rather go to a team that already has an ace (who happens to be a major a$$hole) and that just won a World Series?

    To me, there’s no question, but then again, I’m really biased Yankee fan!

  107. whoa December 4th, 2007 at 9:08 pm

    # Fleas December 4th, 2007 at 9:05 pm

    SJ44

    You cannot deny, that is the Sox land Santana (especially for that weak pkg) ..

    that they do not have absolutely the best starting rotation in the majors.

    As did the A’s and Braves for much of the ’90.

    How’d that work out.

  108. Wolf In Pinstripes December 4th, 2007 at 9:08 pm

    It’s going to be a hoot watching Dontrelle get eaten up by AL hitters. Bring your popcorn. 8)

  109. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 9:08 pm

    THIS JUST IN – CONFIRMED

    Pete and all the blog sites are actually paying the Twins, Sox, and Yanks to keep this going for a month. Blog website hits are at record highs the past 2 weeks and ad revenue is through the roof.

  110. Nettles vs. Lee December 4th, 2007 at 9:08 pm

    Lets trade the expendable Wilson Betemit for somebody like . . . Scott Proctor.

    We could use a sold workhorse in the bullpen.

  111. Kurt December 4th, 2007 at 9:08 pm

    Doesn’t anyone think that we could already have an ace we just don’t know it. There is a reason these guys are ranked highly by everyone in baseball so I think we already have a ace we just don’t know it yet

  112. Laura December 4th, 2007 at 9:08 pm

    Don’t get all happy yet. You gotta believe that this deal will get done eventually, especially if Santana tells Minny that he’s not going to Boston.

    Ah, the life of a dedicated Yankees fan. Filled with non-stop stress and drama.

    I wouldn’t have it any other way!

    P.S. Anybody else think that Detroit picked Florida’s pocket. Worst. Trade. Ever.

  113. Jennifer - Save Phil Hughes! December 4th, 2007 at 9:08 pm

    I am very confused. How is Schilling and his 42 year old body so great? Wakefield and his 4.76 and his 42 year old borken down body great? And Dice K and his 4.40 25 hr 80bb on so great?

  114. Fleas December 4th, 2007 at 9:09 pm

    All of you naysayers really make me sick. Not ony did we clean Boston’s clock last season (after losing the first 5 of 6 games started by Chase Wright & the like, we owned them) but has anyone bothered to check Santana’s stats lately. They’ve been slowly declining the past several years, he gave up more way more home runs than ever before last year

    Dana, Do yourself a favor and go brush your teeth.. or better yet, Go look at Mariano’s stats in comparison to all years previous.. and to think we jsut gave him 3 years for 45 million.. he pitches 1 inning…

    Dana.. again.. what about Arod in ’06 did you think he was done or what.. only to come back as a monster in ’07 .. your logic is flawed.

  115. harrs21 December 4th, 2007 at 9:09 pm

    If the Twins take the reported deal the Red Sox are offering, Minny fans oughta send their GM on a waterskiing trip to Lake Superior with some concrete bindings.

    Even with a mid-level third prospect, the Yanks’ offer is head and shoulders better than the Sox’s. With New York’s offer you get two major-league-ready youngsters, one of whom should be at the top of a pitching rotation for years to come. With Boston’s, you get a has-been outfielder who makes $5 mil per season and a guy who maybe projects to be middle-of-the-rotation starter.

    If that’s all the Twins get for Santana, I’ll eat my hat.

  116. Jennifer - Save Phil Hughes! December 4th, 2007 at 9:10 pm

    Detriot gave up alot of players. and Willis will probably do well once around the league since no one has really seen him. But he’ll get lit up like a Christmas tree.

  117. Fleas December 4th, 2007 at 9:10 pm

    And.. Dana .. people who think they are so smart, but are not smart enough to realize that .. Gee. Hey.. I am really pretty dumb .. really make me sick!

    Heh

  118. The Bronx is Burnt December 4th, 2007 at 9:10 pm

    Rebecca,

    Why so happy?

  119. Deryck December 4th, 2007 at 9:11 pm

    “especially if Santana tells Minny that he’s not going to Boston.”

    Why on Earth would he do that? He’d be the Ace of a fantastic staff that is going to the playoffs and getting paid all the while. He’s said he loves the East Coast, he’s a big game guy.

    I think he’d be more than happy to wave the no trade clause if offered to the Sox

  120. A-Point December 4th, 2007 at 9:11 pm

    Boston Dave
    December 4th, 2007 at 8:58 pm
    How can 41% of MN think its a good deal??

    Simple, those are the MN Red Sox fans, gotta make it seem like its a good deal to make it come off. :D

    SJ44, I think its people who really don’t know baseball all that well that had their hopes on one single pitcher coming in like Superman to save the day. Its looking at the small picture rather than the larger one.

    I am not all that convinced that the Sox will end up with Johan anyway. With so many national radio and TV talking about how the RS are getting such a great deal out of this, you would figure that it will give the Twins some pause. There was a pretty big outcry against including Hughes in this deal.

    I also think that it could very well be that once Pettitte came back into the fold that the Yankees really didn’t like the deal at all and backed off themselves. It could also be what drove the Steinbrenner deadline, to get them off the hook while making it look otherwise.

  121. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 9:12 pm

    harrs – the Sox offer with 5 guys is not far off from the Yanks. Lowrie is a solid prospect and the other 2 guys are enough to make the deals comparable.

  122. Cumberberg December 4th, 2007 at 9:12 pm

    Hey Deryck — Why don’t you tell Beckett that he’s no longer the staff ace of the Sux? Make sure you duck.

  123. Winfield killed my seagull December 4th, 2007 at 9:13 pm

    Pete, keep the updates coming. this is truly a great time to be a fan. How did I survive 32 1/2 years without this blog???
    oh and there is truly a conspiracy to have the Pats go undefeated. Couldn’t have been rooting for Baltimore any harder.

  124. Jeff NJ December 4th, 2007 at 9:13 pm

    By the way, maybe it was the timing or the history between the teams, but I never once felt the Yankees wouldn’t find a way to beat Santana and the Twins every time we played them in the postseason. Santana was usually out of the game and the Yankees would win. No reason we still can’t own him. But let’s not get ahead of ourselves, this deal is still not done. I think the Angels will get serious now that they didn’t get Miguel Cabrera.

  125. Andrea December 4th, 2007 at 9:13 pm

    Jennifer: no doom and gloom here!

  126. Rob NY December 4th, 2007 at 9:14 pm

    yeah Santana wouldnt wanna go to the red sox…. hed rather stay on the c***** twins than go to the world series champion / perennial contender…… lol whatever youre drinking make mine a double

  127. SJ44 December 4th, 2007 at 9:14 pm

    Fleas,

    The Red Sox having a great rotation (if they acquire Santana) is not the issue.

    Its people conceding the season writing nonsensical drivel.

    Nobody is saying its not a great move for them.

    However, unless the rules have changed, the games have to be played and a LOT of things can happen in a season.

    Also, I don’t think the Yankees are a “bad” team.

    Call me crazy but, I’ll take my chances with the team as currently assembled.

    Those who don’t can buy their Red Sox jerseys and post on SOSH.

    The chicken little stuff is juvenile. Hopefully, it ends soon.

  128. hughesian bias December 4th, 2007 at 9:15 pm

    boston dave, you are out of your mind. the offer is equivalent to 5 A. Gonz’s.

  129. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 9:16 pm

    In a brief session with reporters, Red Sox GM Theo Epstein said he expected negotiations with the Twins to go “well into the night.”
    Epstein didn’t say what was being discussed. As tight-lipped as the Red Sox try to be in public, it’s surprising he said as much as he did. He added that the teams are being flexible, that no “final offers” have been made. The Red Sox may be proposing a swap of Jon Lester, Coco Crisp, Jed Lowrie, Justin Masterson and Ryan Kalish for Santana.

  130. stuart December 4th, 2007 at 9:16 pm

    yeah these same execs said last yr. that abreu was finished and about 10 other moronic predictions that never came thru…

    SJ great post… yeah that Detroit pitching depth is scary.. then again they are young team; sheff is only 39, and pudge is Jorge’s age(and he cannot take PEDs anymore), and todd jones and rodney are lights out in the pen…

    also I am sure Okajima will have another best season of his life at the age of 34!!!!!!!

  131. Deryck December 4th, 2007 at 9:16 pm

    “Hey Deryck — Why don’t you tell Beckett that he’s no longer the staff ace of the Sux? Make sure you duck.”

    You really think the Red Sox get Santana, pay him 23-24m a year and don’t start him in the season opener? Really?

    This is JOHAN Santana you know, right? The guy who has 2 Cy Young awards (and should be 3).

  132. Mike December 4th, 2007 at 9:17 pm

    Yeah I love how spoiled everyone has become after getting used to making the playoffs every year. Now all of a sudden the world is about to end because Boston might be getting Santana. For once we will have to work for a playoff appearance, big deal. Ok, so we MIGHT not make the playoffs this year, fine. Let our guys get a year under our belt, and we’ll see how it goes after that and after next year’s free agency. I personally think we’ll still make the playoffs next year. We have the same team as last year, without the likes of Igawa, Karstens, PAVANO, Desalvo, starting a bunch of games the beginning of last year. We also seem to be forgetting about the Yankees in the 2nd half of last year, who had the BEST RECORD. Sure, I would be expecting a similar to last year result if we were under the same management, but how about we give Girardi and his new staff a shot. I think we are going to be perfectly fine next year. And most importantly, its DECEMBER. How about letting the rest of the offseason play out. Cashman is not as dumb as people think and the Steinbrenners would never let this ship sink as long as they are in charge. We’ll be fine, and even better off after we dump the dead weight after this season (mainly Giambi).

  133. Mister Delaware December 4th, 2007 at 9:17 pm

    C’mon, Bias. Those guys (all 5 of them) are so insanely high above a no-hit, good glove SS its silly. People like you are what give NY fans an awful reputation.

  134. PittsburghYankeeFan December 4th, 2007 at 9:17 pm

    Call me a fool, but this is all posturing. Why negotiate in public like this, especially with the stakes so high?

    These guys are playing the media big time.

    It really comes down to where Johan wants to play, since he can reject anything. Why not reject everything that is not exactly what you want? To be loyal to a team that is too cheap to give you another 2 years?

    So it’s either:

    (1) Johan wants the Sox, so they have to do slightly better than 2 draft picks to make it work–which anyone looking at the proposed trade with Boston would agree is true. Against this is he’s a LHP in Fenway (probably too much ego to care about that), or that he won’t get paid the maximum (too much ego not to care about that).

    (2) Johan really wants the Yankees, so the Twins are looking for his true value with very little leverage in the negotiation. They’re leaking to all the players who want league balance (ie the media, un-named AL executives, etc) to get the Yankees scared enough to drive up the price so the deal will work.

    (3) A mixture of (1) and (2). Johan wants the Sox (maybe since he thinks they can win the WS sooner, who knows). Bill Smith tried to use the Yankees to drive up the price for the Sox, but failed miserably. Theo is now raping the Twins, having exposed the bluff. This scenario makes a lot of sense. With Torii Hunter’s comment that Johan wanted the Yankees, this makes me confused.

    (2)

  135. Shamus December 4th, 2007 at 9:18 pm

    “One of La Velle E. Neal III’s sources told him the Twins and Red Sox, as of 7:20 p.m. CST, were still haggling over names in a Johan Santana deal.
    Neal doesn’t know if there’s anyone besides the Red Sox still in the mix for Santana at the moment. Conflicting rumors have left it unclear whether the Red Sox have added Ryan Kalish to a package that supposedly included Jon Lester, Coco Crisp, Jed Lowrie and Justin Masterson.”

    See, from the Sox side, Sean McAdam of the ProJo was on CSN Mohegan Sports tonight (@ 630 pm and 7 pm ET) with Felger and tanguay saying the deal with Lester included Kalish and Masterson, netting the Twins two ML ready starters (? Masterson is deemed a starter?) and a top OF prospect in Kalish, allowing the Sox to pull Lowrie from the deal, alomg with Coco. THAT, didn’t make much sense to me, had to watch the show twice to make sure I heard it right…

    So many different packages flying around…from so many different sources.

    But if its only the Sox in the deal mix with Minny, and with reportedly NYY, Seattle, Anahiem, LAD, and the Mets (not enough propects) backing out of contention, or the ‘sweepstakes’ fo Johan, then IMO, a few things could happen:

    A) The Sox or Johan and his agent could back out, even after deciding on a trade between teams, by not meeting certain salary or year requirements by Johan and his magical NTC. Ultimately forcing him to have to play out his last year in Minn. and dropping him into a free agency pool that could include CC Sabathia…

    B) Another team, ie, Angels, NYY, some dark horse, could make a sudden, last minute, desperate, blow the Sox away trade offer, and secure a suitable extension after a succesful NTC waive and secure Johan for a stud package and extend him for 6 years/$150M….

    or

    C) Everthing works out with the Sox, trade goers through with extension, and the sun does rise Wednesday…

  136. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 9:18 pm

    hughesean,

    this may come to a shock to you but just because lester is no hughes, he is still a solid prospect and valuable trade piece. lowrie is equal in value to one of the yanks top guys (not named kennedy) and the other 2 guys are top 10 sox prospects.

    i am not saying its a better deal for the twins or that they should take it… just that the bias in here is trying to write off the sox deal as a joke compared to the yanks offer. that the twins wanted more from the yanks is the issue.

    the yanks best offer and the sox best offer are comparable.

  137. willis December 4th, 2007 at 9:20 pm

    Lester has to be seen as a health risk, no?

  138. Cumberberg December 4th, 2007 at 9:20 pm

    Deryck, were you asleep last season? You clearly missed most of it, including the playoffs. No shame there, considering we got knocked off in round one…

    2007 AL Cy Young Award Voting
    Pitcher, Club 1st 2nd 3rd Points
    C.C. Sabathia, CLE 19 8 119
    Josh Beckett, BOS 8 14 4 86
    John Lackey, LAA 1 5 16 36
    Fausto Carmona, CLE 1 4 7
    Eric Bedard, BAL 1 1
    Roy Halladay, TOR 1 1
    Johan Santana, MIN 1 1
    Justin Verlander, DET 1 1

  139. PittsburghYankeeFan December 4th, 2007 at 9:21 pm

    Where is Bobcat when you need him?

  140. Enoch December 4th, 2007 at 9:22 pm

    I’m fine with losing Santana.

    I just don’t understand why Hughes/Melky/prospect isn’t better than something centered around a #3 starter, an 80ish OPS+ CF that everyone knows they want to trade, and bullpen help.

    To be the equivalent of the reported Hughes/Melky/Kennedy package they requested, they would have to request Buccholz, Lester and Crisp.

    And I don’t get Crisp – he makes more in a year than the entire Yankee package will make in three.

  141. Winfield killed my seagull December 4th, 2007 at 9:22 pm

    Just saw the Tigers got Dontrelle Willis and Miguel Cabrera…..for Miller, Maybin and 4 other prospects. is that true?

  142. Phillips December 4th, 2007 at 9:23 pm

    I am optimistic, I would love to see the Sox pull out becuase they I am sure don’t want to loose Lester, and do they want the contract? I’m sure they don’t. Then, the Twins come back to the Yankees hoping to trade, but the original trade involving IPK,Melky,Marquez. Fine with me.

    A few years ago, they weren’t able to sign the MLB’s best player.
    Who knows, maybe they won’t be able to negoiate with Santana now.

  143. hughesian bias December 4th, 2007 at 9:23 pm

    people here write it off as a joke *just* like people everywhere else say it’s a joke. I go to boston college, and all the news stations around the city report that if boston lands santana for this deal “it’s a steal”. even they’re saying it.

    lowrie (a B prospect) is being blocked by pedroia at 2nd base and lugo’s contract, crisp is on the bench to give way to ellsbury, masterson is unproven, and lester is being swapped for santana.

    boston isn’t losing anything, the deal is essentially replacing lester for johan and getting rid of a few spare parts.

    with the yankees the twins get a center fielder than can actually hit, a legit starting pitcher in hughes, and a B-level prospect from a list given to them by cashman.

    you decide which one’s the better deal.

  144. Mike December 4th, 2007 at 9:23 pm

    “Just saw the Tigers got Dontrelle Willis and Miguel Cabrera…..for Miller, Maybin and 4 other prospects. is that true?”

    Yes, its true. In addition to Cameron Maybin, Andrew Miller and Mike Rabelo, the Marlins will get three right-handers in the Miguel Cabrera-Dontrelle Willis trade: Dallas Trahern, Eulogio De La Cruz and Burke Badenhop.

  145. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 9:24 pm

    willis – i cant say… not sure anyone knows the answer to that. i think there is always risk but the twins must have considered that or feel the risk is as minimal as him throwing out his arm. i cant fathom the twins liking lester more than hughes, but apparently they see them as close enough.

  146. CaptainsCorner December 4th, 2007 at 9:24 pm

    The NY Times says that the Yanks were willing to include Marquez in the deal but the Twins still wanted one of the hall of famers in Horne or Jackson. Cash probably said no I can’t include Willie Mays or Koufax.

  147. Rob NY December 4th, 2007 at 9:24 pm

    “you decide which one’s the better deal.”

    lol wish i could…. but thats the Twins GM’s job

  148. Deryck December 4th, 2007 at 9:24 pm

    “Deryck, were you asleep last season? You clearly missed most of it, including the playoffs. No shame there, considering we got knocked off in round one…”

    Good job quoting one season. How did Beckett do the previous season? I mean I may not work in baseball (I do), but I’d much rather have a guy who before last season went:

    12-3
    20-6
    16-7
    19-6

    With an offense much worse than Beckett’s had the last two seasons. The Twins offense during those seasons was about on par with what the Marlins had when Beckett was there.

  149. SAndMan December 4th, 2007 at 9:25 pm

    Winfield killed my seagull-

    Yep/

  150. hughesian bias December 4th, 2007 at 9:25 pm

    oh, i forgot to mention, the last guy in the deal was drafted out of high school and is projected to play CF. he’s 19. big upside there, eh?

    just because they’re the red sox top 10 prospects doesnt mean they’re good, it means the sox need a better farm system that extends past ellsbury and buchholz.

  151. Drive 4-5 December 4th, 2007 at 9:25 pm

    SJ44,

    I think folks have a right to be upset. And it’s a blog, a good place for them to vent. Labelling dissenters as “crybabies” diminishes the good work you do here.

    You’re not right about everything, and neither are the rest of us.

    Personally, I’m having a hard time comprehending the Yankees $200mil payroll that doesn’t include a dominant starter and has a patchwork bullpen. Why did they bother spending $388mil? At least 2 of the players they spent the money on may be at the end of their careers by the time Austin Jackson takes an at bat.

  152. PittsburghYankeeFan December 4th, 2007 at 9:25 pm

    Boston Dave

    The only way any of this makes sense is that Johan wants to go to the Red Sox and believes that they can pay him what he wants.

    If that is the case, then the issue is can the Sox make the package attractive enough for the Twins to live without a year of Santana (especially with Cleveland, Detroit, and KC improving) and the draft picks and/or mid-season pick ups.

    The offer as it now is rumored could be beat by the Yankees in about 5 minutes if they chose to, without Hughes, Jackson, and Kennedy.

  153. Reality Check December 4th, 2007 at 9:25 pm

    Cumberberg, the main reason I would want to be in NY is the fact that fenway is a lefthander’s graveyard and The Stadium is very lefty friendly. No coincidence JS’s era is 5 runs lower in NY, albeit a small sample.

  154. Steve Howe You Doin December 4th, 2007 at 9:26 pm

    All – Red Sox wont pull the trigger. Theo’s now “up all night haggling”? Over what? Haven’t they already done that? This is all bull.

    Theo’s been caught without a chair. Red Sox will now stall, knowing Yanks are out and they’ll find a way to quit the game.

    Johan a Yankee in 2009 – FA signing.

  155. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 9:26 pm

    hughesian – i am a diehard yankees fan…. i have no agenda. i want santana more than 99% of the people on this blog.

    the deals are comparable.

    the problem is the twins asked for MORE From the yanks and not more from the Sox.

    the two ‘best’ offers are pretty close in overall value.

  156. Shamus December 4th, 2007 at 9:27 pm

    The thing is… was Torii tellig the truth? Does Johan covet the NYY stage that much? He knows (at least now) he would get top $$$/years there.

    You just have to wonder where he (Santana) lies in all this(?). Would he use his NTC is Boston maxed out at five years/$125? Would he consider that too much of a low ball when guys like Steve Phillips are running around saying he could be a $200M pitcher? With free agency powerball ticket available one possible 17-win/ under 3.30 season away?

    At the last minute, will Hank break and offer IPK with Hughes and Melky?

    Or some other combo known of us have any idea about?

  157. Cumberberg December 4th, 2007 at 9:28 pm

    Deryck, you’re missing my point, which is not about who has had the better career, but who is the bigger jerk and has the bigger ego. If you’re Josh Beckett, you’ve won two world series and you destroyed the opposition in the last post season. You’re telling me that he’s going to take a back seat?

  158. Go NYR December 4th, 2007 at 9:28 pm

    When do we get to hear the part about te Sawx bluffing and pulling their deal off the table? I dont see how they are willing to pay Johan 20 to 25 mill for 6 years. Then a comparable deal for Beckett in a year. thats up to 50 million on 2 pitchers. They call us the evil empire? As Francesa said today, the Sox and fans have to take the tag “favorite” if this deal goes down. I personally think they are just trying to get us to unload as much as possible.

  159. hughesian bias December 4th, 2007 at 9:28 pm

    drive 4-5,

    why do we need to spend millions for a dominant starter? how come we don’t just bring up guys from our farm (like minny did to get santana, oakland with haren, baltimore with bedard, etc, etc) and get aces for cheap?

  160. Mike R. December 4th, 2007 at 9:29 pm

    What worries me is that a lot of what I’m reading from some people sounds like Red Sox fans before 2004. Everything is awful. If we want to trade Hughes for Santana it’s a bad move, we are repeating the Randy Johnson fiasco. If we stop pursuing Santana we should give up on the next decade and fold up our tent.

    Today I declare a Yankee creed:

    I believe we have the Best lineup in baseball. I believe we our stocked with young talent. I believe in Brian Cashman and trust his judgment. And most of all I sincerely believe that every other team in MLB would switch places with us in a heart beat.

    You might think this is arrogant, or silly or idiotic, but I really don’t care.

  161. Deryck December 4th, 2007 at 9:29 pm

    I’m ducking because I know Yankees fans, but if I’m the Yankees (marketing/advertising aside) I offer Chamberlain/Cabrera and I think the deal gets done. When all’s said and done Hughes will have the better/longer career.

    I love Chamberlain and he can be on my team anytime, but offering Hughes instead of him seems odd to me.

  162. Shamus December 4th, 2007 at 9:29 pm

    CaptainsCorner
    December 4th, 2007 at 9:24 pm
    The NY Times says that the Yanks were willing to include Marquez in the deal but the Twins still wanted one of the hall of famers in Horne or Jackson. Cash probably said no I can’t include Willie Mays or Koufax.

    LOL– You are too funny… :)

  163. ET2012 December 4th, 2007 at 9:29 pm

    CHEER UP GUY!!!

    Here you go, one more suggestion:

    1. LET VIZCAINO WALK

    Yanks have a bunch of young guns who can bring it just as good as Viz: Olendorf, Veras, Bruney, Britton, Farnsworth, Johathan (Pitcher they just got from Washington). They get the sandwich pick to go along with the first rounder for 08 and maybe, just maybe… they could wind up with another one-two pitchers like Kennedy and Joba in 06…

    2. GET A LH RELIEF PITCHER

    Damaso Marte could be a good one to trade for using a mid-level minor league prospect, or sign Mahay (costs no draft picks).

  164. CaptainsCorner December 4th, 2007 at 9:30 pm

    Beckett won them a WS this year, he was there ace. No matter how much more money Santana makes he is going to start game 2 of the season and play offs. Boston will not do that to Beckett. I hope Santana enjoys playing second fiddle.

  165. Steve Howe You Doin December 4th, 2007 at 9:30 pm

    Red Sox will pull out.

  166. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 9:30 pm

    hughesan -

    oakland did not bring haren up from the farm

  167. Big Stein December 4th, 2007 at 9:31 pm

    Pete, any word on what these small deals could be? Is it gaining more young bullpen help?

  168. Reality Check December 4th, 2007 at 9:31 pm

    Horne should not be the roadblock. Horne should not be the roadblock. Horne should not be the roadblock. Horne should not be the roadblock. Horne should not be the roadblock. Horne should not be the roadblock. Horne should not be the roadblock. Horne should not be the roadblock. Horne should not be the roadblock. Horne sould not be the roadblock.

    Sorry, I just had to get that out of my system.

  169. Shamus December 4th, 2007 at 9:31 pm

    Boston Dave
    December 4th, 2007 at 9:30 pm
    hughesan -

    oakland did not bring haren up from the farm

    Yeah–

    Traded for from St. Louis in 2005 for Mark Mulder…

  170. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 9:31 pm

    Captains… that is funny

  171. Yanksrule57 December 4th, 2007 at 9:31 pm

    The negativity here is BS! It really sounds like a bunch of RS trolls have invaded and are masquerading as Yankee fans,crying doom and gloom. What Rot!
    This team has never in the 40 years I have been following them had so many top pitching prospects. Yes the position guys are older but we have the best player in the game (Arod) and the best clutch player (Jeter). In case you didn’t notice this team changed on the fly last year and was the best team in the game over the last 4 months of the season.
    I will still go to spring training as usual and root for them I will still go to the stadium for the last time (hopefully) and root for them, still watch them on Yes and still watch them win the season series from the Sox (again). And with some luck and a new manager, get past the first round of the playoffs. If not, we’re still better than 27 or so teams in the game.

  172. Deryck December 4th, 2007 at 9:32 pm

    “Deryck, you’re missing my point, which is not about who has had the better career, but who is the bigger jerk and has the bigger ego. If you’re Josh Beckett, you’ve won two world series and you destroyed the opposition in the last post season. You’re telling me that he’s going to take a back seat?”

    I think when you bring in a player of Santana’s caliber, yes.

  173. Bobcat December 4th, 2007 at 9:32 pm

    Hey everyone. So Far what has been happening in the news is

    1) The Red Sox are stalling, they do not know if they want Santana yet for the cost.

    2) The Yankees are out of it, but who knows with Hank?

    3) The Angels were talking to the Twins, but Smith wanted to much as he did from the Yankees.

    4) The media once again is telling you what they want you to hear, The Yankees are out, the Sox are in….

    5) The Yankees could still come in to this at the last minute, but maybe Hank sticks to his word?

  174. Shamus December 4th, 2007 at 9:32 pm

    Ewo days after Timmay Hudson went to ATL.

    Beane’s All-Night Shop till you Drop of Winter 05 !

  175. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 9:32 pm

    shamus – your wife know you’re back on here? :)

  176. Bill December 4th, 2007 at 9:32 pm

    “The Red Sox having a great rotation (if they acquire Santana) is not the issue.”

    It absolutely IS the issue.

  177. hughesian bias December 4th, 2007 at 9:33 pm

    mike r. –

    i completely agree. for some reason everyone thinks the yankees are going to tie tampa bay’s record next year.

    life could be worse, guys! you could have no play at santana and no prospects! just be happy.

  178. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 9:33 pm

    Bobcat –

    would Hank say they are out of it to help discourage the Sox from going through with the deal?

    After all, wont the sox be happy if the yanks simply dont get johan?

  179. Shamus December 4th, 2007 at 9:33 pm

    Horne should not be the roadblock. Horne should not be the roadblock. Horne should not be the roadblock. Horne should not be the roadblock. Horne should not be the roadblock. Horne should not be the roadblock. Horne should not be the roadblock. Horne should not be the roadblock. Horne should not be the roadblock. Horne sould not be the roadblock.

    Sorry, I just had to get that out of my system.

    Horne should not be the roadblock. Horne should not be the roadblock. Horne should not be the roadblock. Horne should not be the roadblock. Horne should not be the roadblock. Horne should not be the roadblock. Horne should not be the roadblock. Horne should not be the roadblock. Horne should not be the roadblock. Horne sould not be the roadblock.

    Sorry, I just had to get that out of my system.

    Horne should not be the roadblock. Horne should not be the roadblock. Horne should not be the roadblock. Horne should not be the roadblock. Horne should not be the roadblock. Horne should not be the roadblock. Horne should not be the roadblock. Horne should not be the roadblock. Horne should not be the roadblock. Horne sould not be the roadblock.

    Sorry, I just had to get that out of my system.

    Ahem ! Me Too !!!

  180. yankeesrule2000 December 4th, 2007 at 9:34 pm

    Hopefully this Santana thing comes to an end sooner rather then later.

  181. hughesian bias December 4th, 2007 at 9:34 pm

    bobcat –

    thanks for the update. i hope hank sticks to his word.

  182. Mike Myers December 4th, 2007 at 9:34 pm

    I’m available for relief

  183. SAndMan December 4th, 2007 at 9:34 pm

    Reality Check-

    Around here if you are a prospect in the Yankees farm you “Will” be better then Santana for sure a hall of famer…because Santana had two bad months ruining his career and is a getting real old at 28…just like Randy Johnson.

  184. hughesian bias December 4th, 2007 at 9:35 pm

    shamus –

    it’s horne + ajax that are the road block.

    hughes + melky + horne + ajax

  185. TheGhostOfAlvaroEspinoza December 4th, 2007 at 9:36 pm

    Fake Bobcat alert.

  186. Big Stein December 4th, 2007 at 9:36 pm

    How about you guys start focusing on the Yankees instead of the Red Sox. Unless you’re all to obsessed with Boston.

  187. Cumberberg December 4th, 2007 at 9:36 pm

    Well Deryck, it sure will be interesting. I come at the this from a perhaps false notion of the massive egos involved in this sport. Some, like Pettite, seem to retain a sense of humility. Perhaps I’m not being fair to Beckett. I certainly don’t have any inside information that he’ll act like an a$$.

  188. PittsburghYankeeFan December 4th, 2007 at 9:36 pm

    I think IPK, Tabata, Gonzalez, Melky, Horne beats what the Sox currently have on the table (Lester, Crisp, the 19 year old). Add in Igawa (for the Twins to spin to the Pads) as a sweetener (cheap and LHP).

    Lots of volume, better than the Sox deal.

    Johan MUST be asked by Bill Smith which team he would rather play for, or all of this is simply talk.

  189. Steve Balboni December 4th, 2007 at 9:37 pm

    Theo “Boy Genius” Epstein has never been big on giving pitchers more than a 4 year contract. Given the the money they are talking about, $125-150 mil or $20-25 mil per for 6 years. I can’t see them paying that amount to JS with Beckett on board who has a better resume than Santana and would be making about half that amount (give or take a couple of million).At these numbers, it would more than likely push them over the salary cap and have to pay the luxury tax, thereby increasing the actual cost of the contract.

  190. Nick in SF December 4th, 2007 at 9:38 pm

    (this is a re-post from the bottom of another thread)

    Minor point, but CM Wang was injured at the beginning of last season, he didn’t make his first start until April 24th. If he pitched a full season without inury, it’s a reasonable assumption that gets to or beyond 20 wins, would probably have been more effective in the early games he lost, and probably could/should have gotten more Cy Young consideration.

    This exercise in “if” means nothing as to how he will or won’t perform in 2008 or whether he’ll go through the year injury-free. But I think you also can’t make any serious argument about 2008 based on what Wang did in one playoff series versus Cleveland. He hasn’t proven that he can’t be an ace or at least a solid 1-b type pitcher any more than he’s proven that he can be.

    Similarly, if you want to write off Wang and the Yanks in a playoff series, do you also write off Johan Santana and his 1-4 post-season record? Probably not. Projecting how Santana will pitch over the course of the 2008 season — be it in the Bronx, Fenway, or the Minny Men’s Room– is highly speculative, and how he’d pitch in the 2008 post-season even more so.

    So basing serious arguments on how Hughes/Jaba/IPK and Lester/Bucholtz/DiceK will/won’t do over the course of a full season is even more speculative.

    In other words, wherever Santana goes or doesn’t go, nobody is conceding anything and it isn’t the end of the world for anyone either.

  191. Mister Delaware December 4th, 2007 at 9:38 pm

    Hughsian, its a joke because the MSM doesn’t pay attention to prospects at nearly the level most of us do. Just listen to Francesa and Russo today talking about how Horne and Jackson shouldn’t stop this trade. They care about names and, believe me, they’d be advocating moving Joba just as quick had he been shut down in August as opposed to hitting the big club. Those guys, or atleast 90% of them, don’t care about the minor league guys if it means advocating the major league name. Ignore it.

  192. Deryck December 4th, 2007 at 9:38 pm

    “Deryck, you’re missing my point, which is not about who has had the better career, but who is the bigger jerk and has the bigger ego. If you’re Josh Beckett, you’ve won two world series and you destroyed the opposition in the last post season. You’re telling me that he’s going to take a back seat?”

    Here’s a bit of a trivia lesson. In 1998 the Yankee ace was arguably David Wells. David Wells was 18-4 on the season and started the first game of the ALCS and the WS.

    For the 1999 season a guy named Roger Clemens joined the club. Want to guess who started the season opener at Oakland?

  193. Yanksrule57 December 4th, 2007 at 9:38 pm

    I agree that was not the real Bobcat. Nice try……not!

  194. CaptainsCorner December 4th, 2007 at 9:38 pm

    I have a question for anyone that knows a lot about the Yanks farm system. Are Horne and Jackson that good that you wouldn’t include them in this deal? Should Cash really let them be the deal breakers???!!!!

  195. Shamus December 4th, 2007 at 9:39 pm

    Boston Dave
    December 4th, 2007 at 9:32 pm
    shamus – your wife know you’re back on here?

    Hey B. Dave!

    She’s Upstairs, getting ready for an evening with Anderson Cooper, doing homework (she’s in nusrsing school) on old desktop in bedroom watching TV…

    I’m ‘Clay Buchholzing’ (stole her laptop) and am on the couch in front of the den TV, skipping around looking for nuggets of info…

  196. Phillips December 4th, 2007 at 9:39 pm

    So is there going to be a deal that happens tonight? I thought that the deal was supposed to happen tonight? Is there something stopping the Sox and Twins from completing it?

  197. Mike December 4th, 2007 at 9:40 pm

    Honestly, I’m beginning to think that Theo is stalling and waiting for the Yankees to make a desperate and last minute offer.

  198. gayle December 4th, 2007 at 9:41 pm

    As I am certainly no stats expert and how to interpret the new fangled stats and their impact so please save your dagger for someone who cares. Beckett can clearly be an ace in the postseason BUT he has been no ace as far as I am concerned in the regular season except this year. For the most part he has been hampered with injuries to the fact that he has not even pitched 200 innings until 2006 this after 5 years in the big leagues. since 2001 77 wins, 959 SO, 3.74 ERA.

    Santana since 2000 (career 3.22 era, 1381 K, 93 wins)would clearly be the Ace of that staff HOWEVER they wont make him the #1 as it will already be insulting to Beckett because of the dollars they will need to committ to him and you know that Beckett will ask for more money sooner rather than later.

  199. Yanksrule57 December 4th, 2007 at 9:41 pm

    Shamus ,

    I’m ‘Clay Buchholzing’ (stole her laptop) and am on the couch in front of the den TV, skipping around looking for nuggets of info…

    LOL! Very good one sir.

  200. Rebecca--Optimist Prime December 4th, 2007 at 9:41 pm

    Just had an interesting conversation with my friend regarding Santana, as my friend is a Sox fan, so it’s a different viewpoint. Check the blog if you’re curious.

  201. Reality Check December 4th, 2007 at 9:41 pm

    hughesian bias, no that is not correct from what I read. The Yankees turned down an offer of PH, Melky, Marquez and Horne OR Ajax. Hence, horne should not be the roadblock, Horne should not be the roadblock, Horne should not be the roadblock…..

  202. A-Point December 4th, 2007 at 9:41 pm

    This whole thing could just blow up and re-start all over again. This isn’t worth getting so upset over.

    This could be all a ploy to drive up the price and its blown up in Smith’s face.

    As to the Boston’s top 10 list in their farm… while these might be very good players, one thing to remember is that the Yankee’s farm is ranked #5, the RS is #9. That could cause a downward shifting of what they are really offering.

    Another thing to remember, the Yankee minor leaguers are champions. That speaks to what they have even with some of their good players coming up to the majors during that time.

    Either way this shakes out – I am fine with. Sometimes youth will win out, and some of the panic driven fans here are discounting the Yankee offense way too much.

    My feeling is that the young arms will probably have some struggles in the early part of the season. The Yankee offense will help offset that. Once they get some playing time under their belts they should improve.

    Sometimes its the trades that you don’t make that are the best. Lets see how this all plays out.

  203. rodg12 December 4th, 2007 at 9:41 pm

    I call fake Bobcat as well. A good one, but fake.

  204. mike f December 4th, 2007 at 9:42 pm

    MIKE R:

    great post…i agree 100%. we need a little optimism around here

  205. PittsburghYankeeFan December 4th, 2007 at 9:43 pm

    Phillips

    Yes. The Twins are getting cold feet, as they should. Why make this deal now? They have until July 31, 2008. Why not see how all of these supposed prospects play out a bit more?
    What is the rush?

    Haste is expensive, says the mysterious Bobcat.

  206. CaptainsCorner December 4th, 2007 at 9:43 pm

    Boy wonder said he expected negotiations with the Twins to go “well into the night.” He forgot to include we will be having a sleep over, I baked some cookies and then we will agree on the deal after our bubble bath.

  207. Parrot Guy December 4th, 2007 at 9:43 pm

    blockquote>
    Today I declare a Yankee creed:

    I believe we have the Best lineup in baseball. I believe we our stocked with young talent. I believe in Brian Cashman and trust his judgment. And most of all I sincerely believe that every other team in MLB would switch places with us in a heart beat.

    You might think this is arrogant, or silly or idiotic, but I really don’t care.

    Can I have an AMEN!

  208. Shamus December 4th, 2007 at 9:44 pm

    I am no farm expert…

    But from what I gather, Jackson could be a really good CF come 09/ poss 10.

    Horne is apparently rated by some as high as IPK, or by some a tier down.

    If I had a vote, if Minny wants two ML ready SP and suitable CF, I’d offer Hughes, Horne and Melky, maybe with a throw in of the A.Gonzalez/B.Gardner type.

    To make it a four to one, sustained by an ace potential pitcher in Hughes, a top flight, close to MLB ready pitcher in Horne, a suitable (and way cheaper than Coco) CF in Melky and a fourth mid-tier prospect in Gonzalez, Gardner, or if they wanted another pitcher, Ohlendorf, Sanchez, etc.

    But what do I know?

  209. Yanksrule57 December 4th, 2007 at 9:44 pm

    Rebecca,

    Read you post on the blog. Interesting, to me it shows that RS fans are as agonized over giving up their guys as we are.

  210. Phillips December 4th, 2007 at 9:45 pm

    If not even one deal occurs with Santana, I might cry, all of this for nothing.

  211. $ $ $ $ speaking December 4th, 2007 at 9:45 pm

    Only an absolute Boston delusional (and there’s a barrel of those) would believe that Josh Beckett would be thrilled to be bumped down to #2 after finishing ahead of Santana in the Cy Young balloting and postseason wins under his belt that Santana has yet to see and with a far inferior contract having 2 remaining years. By itself, Beckett’s explosive demeanor dictates that it wouldn’t be taken with a grain of salt.

  212. Reality Check December 4th, 2007 at 9:45 pm

    CaptainsCorner, I would not trade Ajax who had a breakout year this year and was the top prospect in the Hawaii League (as was JOba last year). As Melky would be gone, he hopefully would be patrolling CF in the Bronx in 09. Horne had a great year at Trenton, but major questions exist about his control/command and whether he can therefore do well at higher levels where batters do not chase balls as much. As a result, Horne should not be the roadblock, horne should not be the roadblock, Horne should not be the roadblock….

  213. Yanksrule57 December 4th, 2007 at 9:45 pm

    Parrot Guy,

    Amen brother. Well done.

  214. bskul December 4th, 2007 at 9:46 pm

    so the twins dropped the wanting of kennedy and wanted horne and jackson instead?? Yanks should’ve pulled the trigger.

  215. GMAN December 4th, 2007 at 9:47 pm

    Initially it was all about how Johann wanted to pitch for the Yanks and how he did not want to be part of the Bosox.

    The Yanks had the dough for Johann and the prospects for the Twins to make it happen.

    What’s a reasonable price for a 1 yr rental for Johann?
    If he stays in Minnesota next year…the Twins only get 2 draft picks when he goes bye-bye after 2008.

    Something happened along the way. Mostly, turned out that Johann is cool with living in Beantown.

    With his full no trade clause…Johann will go where he wants to go…at $25 million per for 6 years.

    John Henry will have to dip down and cut a massive paycheck to Johann.

    Wonder how all the other Red Sox that accepted a below market discount contracts to play in Boston feel now that Johann owns Boston.

    I like Yankeeland right now…young gun pitchers are far as the eyes can see and a batting order that can produce 1000 runs.

  216. Mister Delaware December 4th, 2007 at 9:47 pm

    Horne is higher ceiling, Kennedy is the more sure thing. Both have value, certainly too much to “throw in” because they should not be a roadblock, they should not be a roadblock, blah, blah, blah …

  217. ND Yank December 4th, 2007 at 9:47 pm

    But Steinbrenner said he would continue to “pour as much money as possible” into scouting, the draft and Latin America, and he emphasized that he was excited about the Yankees’ young pitching.

    Music to my ears.

  218. We Miss Paulie December 4th, 2007 at 9:47 pm

    I bet Santana’s not going anywhere near Boston, cold feet on both sides.

  219. Drive 4-5 December 4th, 2007 at 9:48 pm

    hughesian bias,

    Harren isn’t really dominant. He has a 49 -45 3.86 career record. Bedard has been injury prone and is yet an ace. Both of them are very good,but Johan Santana is one of the 3 best pitchers in the game. Haren & Bedard hope to be where Santana is now.

    Santana,by the way, was a Rule 5 pickup drafted by the Florida Marlins from the Astros.In their infinite wisdom, the Marlins traded him to the Twins for minor leaguer Jarod Camp and cash.

  220. Deryck December 4th, 2007 at 9:48 pm

    ‘Only an absolute Boston delusional (and there’s a barrel of those) would believe that Josh Beckett would be thrilled to be bumped down to #2 after finishing ahead of Santana in the Cy Young balloting and postseason wins under his belt that Santana has yet to see and with a far inferior contract having 2 remaining years. By itself, Beckett’s explosive demeanor dictates that it wouldn’t be taken with a grain of salt.”

    Beckett fills out the lineup card? Wow, give that man a raise.

  221. He Has To Waive It December 4th, 2007 at 9:49 pm

    do you REALLY think this is all over ? Santana REALLY wants to waive his full NTC to play with Beck@$$ ? Not likely…It is gonna be sweet…WHEN the BoSux get rejected by Johan, he stays in MinnySota and we pay him top dollar in 2009, right after winning the 2008 WS with the card we have dealt !

  222. Sherri - Welcome Back, Andy!!! December 4th, 2007 at 9:50 pm

    Parrot Guy – AMEN!!!

  223. CaptainsCorner December 4th, 2007 at 9:50 pm

    Shamus, Reality Check,

    Thank you for the scouting reports.

  224. Shamus December 4th, 2007 at 9:50 pm

    shamus –

    it’s horne + ajax that are the road block.

    hughes + melky + horne + ajax

    Yes…

    Or, Hughes, IPK and Melky…

    I’ll take option two… Hughes, IPK, and Melky… If Horne is so good and untouchable, the he should be able to replace IPK in the rotation, right?

    So, Santana, Wang, Pettitte, Joba, Moose with Horne, Ohlendorf (originally a starter, I think), Igawa, Karstens in reserve.

    If Horse is so good, then make the Hughes, IPK, Melky deal, for crying out loud. All these kids could go bust in a year !

    Or, if IPK is the real deal, then keep him, and make the first trade, Hughes, Melky, Horne and AJax…

    Cfers, like AJax, are easily accesible (via FA and trades) and draftable.

    Ace LHP in there late 20′s that are AL proven are a rarity.

    Its offical. I’m off the fence. I say make either trade. Get this guy. Posada said what he said for a reason. You have to wonder what the veteran offense memberd of the NYY think?

    With so many rookie pitchers in our rotation, we’ll have to score 5-7 runs a night to win, probably…

    They need a lock down ACE. Posada, I would presume, knows more than we do…

  225. Reality Check December 4th, 2007 at 9:50 pm

    Horne has higher ceiling than IPK? Are you kidding? IPK dominated at every level and kept up with Joba’s ascent, no mean feat. He has superb command and is 3 years younger than Horne. No way Horne, especially with his control/command issues has higher ceiling. That is plain silly.

  226. 27for27 December 4th, 2007 at 9:51 pm

    Mike

    “Honestly, I’m beginning to think that Theo is stalling”

    According to the Providence Journal: ‘Epstein said he didn’t anticipate the Sox giving the Twins any sort of deadline or mandate — as the Yankees did Sunday night — in the ongoing talks for Santana.

    “We’re pretty content where we are,” Epstein said. “We don’t think anything is being held up (by continuing to talk to the Twins). If that changes, we wouldn’t hesitate putting a timetable on it. But that doesn’t apply right now.” ‘

  227. Phillips December 4th, 2007 at 9:51 pm

    from MLBTR

    Johan Santana Rumors: Tuesday
    UPDATE, 12-4-07 at 8:21pm: Theo Epstein expects negotiations with the Twins to carry “well into the night.” He says the Red Sox are being flexible, so it sounds like they’ll hammer something out.

  228. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") December 4th, 2007 at 9:52 pm

    Bobcat
    December 4th, 2007 at 9:32 pm
    Hey everyone. So Far what has been happening in the news is

    1) The Red Sox are stalling, they do not know if they want Santana yet for the cost.

    2) The Yankees are out of it, but who knows with Hank?

    3) The Angels were talking to the Twins, but Smith wanted to much as he did from the Yankees.

    4) The media once again is telling you what they want you to hear, The Yankees are out, the Sox are in….

    5) The Yankees could still come in to this at the last minute, but maybe Hank sticks to his word?

    Not him, nice try though ;)

  229. Yanksrule57 December 4th, 2007 at 9:52 pm

    He Has To Waive It,

    If he goes to the RS they will say something politically correct along the lines of “We have two #1 pitchers”.
    Kind of like the DBacks did with Johnson and Schill.
    But you are right there will be some bruised egos.

  230. Cumberberg December 4th, 2007 at 9:52 pm

    I’m sooo glad I’m not a Marlins or Twins fan. Shaping up to be a dark day for both teams.

    I’d really like a true #1 for our rotation, but I’m happy we didn’t have to give up the kids. I’m really looking forward to seeing them for a full season. Can’t wait to watch Joba tip is cap on the way off the mound. Joe G. is right, there’s no reason we can’t compete next year.

  231. hughesian bias December 4th, 2007 at 9:52 pm

    posada is getting old and is probably not as willing to invest in the future as he should be….

  232. Reality Check December 4th, 2007 at 9:53 pm

    Jeez, Ajax i s NOT reqquired to do the deal. The Yankees rejected a deal of PH, Melky, Marquez and Horne OR (that’s OR) Ajax. That is why only HOrne is the roadblock. I’ll mercifully leave it there.

  233. Deryck December 4th, 2007 at 9:54 pm

    We could always get Mark Prior

  234. Drive 4-5 December 4th, 2007 at 9:54 pm

    “Flexible”. What a great concept. I wonder when “flexible” will ever be used in the same sentence as “Hank”.

  235. CaptainsCorner December 4th, 2007 at 9:54 pm

    If Boston knows that the Yanks are(most likely) out then why wouldn’t they offer even less crap then they are now. What about Coco Krispies and an A ball prospect?? Does anyone know Cash’s cell phone #? j/k! Cash call the twinkies and make another offer Hughes/Melky/Marquez/Horne

  236. The Dude December 4th, 2007 at 9:55 pm

    I don’t want to lose Hughes. However, I wouldn’t complain if his spot was taken by Johan Santana.

    The biggest sticking point for me is as follows: does Cashman really believe that Wang, Andy, Moose, and 3 guys that haven’t yet player a full MLB season are the answer at SP? I know the youngsters have high ceilings, but they’re still unproven (and will all be on inning restrictions). What’s the point of spending all that money on sluggers if you’re just going to be trolling for the Tim Reddings of the world to make starts when some of the above don’t pan out/run out of gas? It just seems like, with the way the Yankees are built, that it makes more sense to deal for an ace than to hope it all works out with the kids.

  237. Jim PA December 4th, 2007 at 9:55 pm

    Cashman said basically nothing, Pete told us he said nothing, and there are 250 comments about it. Imagine if something actually happened-

  238. Yanksrule57 December 4th, 2007 at 9:55 pm

    Fake Bobcat,
    You are getting closer, but sorry, not buying it.

  239. bskul December 4th, 2007 at 9:56 pm

    reality check, if that’s true, brian cashmoron truly deserves to lose his job. the idiot has constantly brought in awful pitchers and doesn’t make that trade to get the best pitcher in baseball?? New name is Clueless Cashmoron.

  240. Jeff NJ December 4th, 2007 at 9:56 pm

    Bobcat is dead. And the Walrus is Paul.

  241. El Comaduce December 4th, 2007 at 9:56 pm

    Hughes/Melky/Marquez/Horne

    IPK/Melky/Marquez/Horne

    Boston does not want to pay him, or this would be done already…

  242. Deryck December 4th, 2007 at 9:56 pm

    Haven’t heard much from the Minnesota side either denying or saying they are close. I’m not sure what that means, but to me it means they are close, with someone.

  243. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") December 4th, 2007 at 9:56 pm

    Bobcat
    December 4th, 2007 at 9:53 pm

    that’s him :)

  244. hughesian bias December 4th, 2007 at 9:56 pm

    how can you tell the reals from the fakes? i feel like even the real bobcat is vague like that sometimes…

  245. hughesian bias December 4th, 2007 at 9:58 pm

    ha, sorry, the *real from the fake

  246. Drive 4-5 December 4th, 2007 at 9:59 pm

    Thanks Bobcat,

    I don’t know what will be worse. Going to work tomorrow and having to listen to all my Red Sox fan co – workers gloat about getting Johan or listening to them rant about Hank going back on his word lol.

  247. Sherri - Welcome Back, Andy!!! December 4th, 2007 at 9:59 pm

    re: Bobcat – this is one reason registration would be nice.

  248. Shamus December 4th, 2007 at 9:59 pm

    Reality Check
    December 4th, 2007 at 9:53 pm
    Jeez, Ajax i s NOT reqquired to do the deal. The Yankees rejected a deal of PH, Melky, Marquez and Horne OR (that’s OR) Ajax. That is why only HOrne is the roadblock. I’ll mercifully leave it there.

    Joey Harold Christams ! Where did you read/hear/see that ? They passed on PH, Melky, Marquez and Horne (the Yankees, that is…) for Santana? Still keeping AJax, Tabata, and IPK? ARE YOU SERIOUS ?

    Please, a link, something?

    Cashman should take off the Adidas kicks and Belickick sweathshirt and put on his man suit and make the MOFO of a trade !

  249. Yanksrule57 December 4th, 2007 at 9:59 pm

    hughesian bias,

    Years of analyzing writing, syntax, sentence structure… and after working as a jail supervisor in a former life I can spot phonies and BS artists really well.

  250. TheGhostOfAlvaroEspinoza December 4th, 2007 at 9:59 pm

    Nah, it’s a fake Bobcat. Remember, real Bobcat only confirms/denies what is published. The latest faker’s tell is the Weaver/Kendrick speculation.

  251. Shamus December 4th, 2007 at 10:00 pm

    Bobcat
    December 4th, 2007 at 9:53 pm

    Nahhh, I’m not feeling it… Not the real RobertFeline

  252. rodg12 December 4th, 2007 at 10:01 pm

    I agree, it’s a fake. Closer again, but a fake.

  253. Laura December 4th, 2007 at 10:01 pm

    “I think he’d be more than happy to wave the no trade clause if offered to the Sox”

    Really? Have you seen his numbers at the Stadium (may it soon rest in peace) versus Fenway? I see Johan getting lit up every now and then at Fenway. All those balls bouncing off the monster. Won’t be pretty.

    I still say that he’d rather be a Yankee. Why play for the pretender when you can be the real thing?

  254. Drive 4-5 December 4th, 2007 at 10:01 pm

    Jeff NJ

    coo coo cachoo to you too! lol

    Was that a fake Bobcat?

  255. Mr. GoodKat December 4th, 2007 at 10:03 pm

    I don’t know it sounded like the real Bobcat

  256. PittsburghYankeeFan December 4th, 2007 at 10:03 pm

    OK

    Who is the real and the fake Bobcat?

  257. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") December 4th, 2007 at 10:04 pm

    Nahhh, I’m not feeling it… Not the real RobertFeline

    dammit I finally got fooled :( sonofab****

  258. rjay December 4th, 2007 at 10:04 pm

    I think right now we are seeing a little bit of Cashman’s patience here waiting for this RS deal to fall through. If the RS were serious about this trade it would be inked already all this crap about the Twins not knowing which RS package is better, all media BS.

  259. Reality Check December 4th, 2007 at 10:05 pm

    Shamus, it was Stark yesterday. The first report was that the Yankees made this offer (PH, Melky, Marquez and Horne or Ajax) by a blogger but it turned out his was the request from the Twins, which WE turned don. So Horne was the roadblock. And as you know I feel, he shouldn’t have been.

  260. Jonathon December 4th, 2007 at 10:05 pm

    Look at all the rumors surrounding me everyday

    I just need some time, some time to get away

    From all these rumors, can’t take it no more

    My best friend said that there’s one out now

    about me and the girl next door.

  261. CaptainsCorner December 4th, 2007 at 10:06 pm

    Shamus,

    Cash said the hall of famers will not be traded.

    The Yankees were willing to include starter Jeffrey Marquez in the deal after the Twins backed off their demand for starter Ian Kennedy late Monday night. But other prospects, including starter Alan Horne and outfielder Austin Jackson, remained off limits.

  262. Mike Myers December 4th, 2007 at 10:06 pm

    So who do you think is on the Mitchell Report?

  263. hughesian bias December 4th, 2007 at 10:06 pm

    i’ll make sure to read into the syntax next time! that’s where i fell short.

  264. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") December 4th, 2007 at 10:07 pm

    So who do you think is on the Mitchell Report?

    you

  265. Kill-Schill(ing) December 4th, 2007 at 10:08 pm

    Hey Bobcat, can you explain to me why the Yankees would allow Alan Horne to foreclose a deal for the best pitcher in baseball?

    The Yankees are stocked with pitchers in their farm system: brackman, garcia, sanchez, melancon, mccutchen, jb cox.

    Why would they all Alan Horne to derail a deal? What’s so special about this guy? I can understand not wanting to include Hughes and IPK, but to yield Santana to the Red Sox over Alan Horne when you have multiple minor league kids to replace him– that I don’t apprehend.

    Bobcat, please enlighten me.

  266. eyes of realism December 4th, 2007 at 10:08 pm

    The sense is that somebody is getting cold feet and in all likelihood it’s both Bill Smith and his counterpart, Theo Epstein.
    Smith is reviwing in his mind how he’ll explain to the Twins fanbase why he took less than the top offer presented.
    Epstein is mulling over the financial aspect of not only Santana’s long term deal which he despises doing, and the ramifications of the domino affect in present and future salaries and the ever growing ticket prices at the small venue he works out of. Also weighing heavy is his once strong commitment toward building through youth.

  267. Sherri - Welcome Back, Andy!!! December 4th, 2007 at 10:09 pm

    Okay, so how is Cash feeling these days?
    Is Hank stepping in where it should be Cash’s decision? I realize Hank’s an owner, but just wondering.
    I was not feeling good about trading the youngsters.
    I know the arguments. I know Santana is REALLY good, but I can live with watching him do well somewhere else. It would really hurt to see Hughes/Kennedy skyrocket somewhere else, knowing we let them go.
    Call me a sentimental fool, but I feel like, too, this is what Cash would want, as well.
    Thoughts?

  268. Mr. GoodKat December 4th, 2007 at 10:09 pm

    If Horne is the difference between the Red Sox and us getting Santana, then he really ought to be included in a trade.

  269. NYPD113th December 4th, 2007 at 10:10 pm

    The sense is that somebody is getting cold feet and in all “likelihood it’s both Bill Smith and his counterpart, Theo Epstein.
    Smith is reviwing in his mind how he’ll explain to the Twins fanbase why he took less than the top offer presented.
    Epstein is mulling over the financial aspect of not only Santana’s long term deal which he despises doing, and the ramifications of the domino affect in present and future salaries and the ever growing ticket prices at the small venue he works out of. Also weighing heavy is his once strong commitment toward building through youth.”

    -Have you talked yourself into it yet?

  270. back bench December 4th, 2007 at 10:10 pm

    Parrot Guy – Amen

    A Point – Very helpful observation about the relative standing of the NYY and BSOX farm systems. In other words a #5 in our is >> a #5 in theirs based on actual results “on the field” (As opposed to some paper analysis)

    And thanks to SJ44, GMAN and others for keeping everything focused on reality vs hyperbole and overreaction.

    Can someone who knows, outline how adding a $25m/yr salary will help the BSOX in the near term? Won’t Beckett ask for at least the equivalent (presuming he holds up), when his contract comes up, which would put a $50m/yr floor under anything the BSOX have to do wrt re-signing Manny (or finding a replacement) and holding on to any of the other players they have coming up for arb or FA in the next 2-3 years? Seems like a Santana deal would really limit their ability to act.

    Since the BSOX are paranoid about anything the Yankees do, with so much $$$ coming OFF the Yankee payroll next year just when the FA market starts getting exciting, it seems to me that the BSOX just might want to reconsider.

    Also, saw a report the BSOX would start negotiations with Sanatana using the Peavy deal. How do you get a ‘hometown’ discount when it isn’t yet his ‘hometown?’

  271. Yanksrule57 December 4th, 2007 at 10:11 pm

    hughesian bias,

    kidding aside, I wish the real Bobcat would post. I really couldn’t tell if he was for real, but I enjoyed his posts.

  272. Mr. GoodKat December 4th, 2007 at 10:11 pm

    That’s Bobcat, you can tell by how witty he is in his posts. You can’t duplicate that, the last two posts have been him me thinks.

  273. Jonathon December 4th, 2007 at 10:11 pm

    ugh…when’s Opening Day? It’d be nice to have real baseball games to post about.

  274. ellen December 4th, 2007 at 10:11 pm

    Imagine how pathetic it must be to spend energy masquerading as someone else on a blog.

  275. bartap December 4th, 2007 at 10:11 pm

    Personally, I’m hoping Santana goes to….Minnesota.

  276. Mister Delaware December 4th, 2007 at 10:11 pm

    Yes, Horne has a higher ceiling. Higher ceiling just meaning “if this guy puts it all together, he will be the better player”. Horne can always get his stuff under control; Kennedy cannot get Horne’s raw stuff.

  277. yankeesrule2000 December 4th, 2007 at 10:11 pm

    Fake bobcat, on that one you tried too hard.

  278. Mike R. December 4th, 2007 at 10:12 pm

    My 2 cents:

    Theo recently stated that negotiations could “go well into the night”. Which got me thinking…What negotiations? What could they possibly be negotiating? They have about four or five potential deals on the table. Hank has said he’s out. The Twins tried to use the Angels as leverage and their GM quickly dismissed it. Why in the world would the Red Sox need to “be flexible”. They are in the driver’s seat in this thing. Bill Smith has painted himself into a corner. This sounds like two guys sitting down and saying “Holy crap our plan didn’t work! What do we do?” to me. I think it’s the classic auction scheme where Billy Smith has an item w=he wants to sell and his buddy Theo agrees to bid so the price will go up.

  279. Kill-Schill(ing) December 4th, 2007 at 10:12 pm

    Hey Bobcat, can you explain to me why the Yankees would allow Alan Horne to foreclose a deal for the best pitcher in baseball?

    The Yankees are stocked with pitchers in their farm system: brackman, garcia, sanchez, melancon, mccutchen, jb cox.

    Why would they allow Alan Horne to derail a deal? What’s so special about this guy? I can understand not wanting to include Hughes and IPK, but to yield Santana to the Red Sox over Alan Horne when you have multiple minor league kids to replace him– that I don’t apprehend.

    Bobcat, please enlighten me.

  280. Dave December 4th, 2007 at 10:13 pm

    The yankees are totally inept at getting high end pitchers that didnt grow up on their own farm. When was the last time we acquired a true ace? David Cone! This is why we havent won in seven yrs. Im getting sick of the sox taking the best pitchers- two yrs in a row. We have the better prospects, we have more money, there is no excuse for this crap. NO EXCUSE. We might have just let the sox start a dynasty – good job stein u talked ur way right out of the best pitcher in baseball. You should be proud. If your father was sane, he would kill u for this.

  281. Mike R. December 4th, 2007 at 10:14 pm

    That last Bobcat post wasn’t even close.

  282. Yanksrule57 December 4th, 2007 at 10:14 pm

    Fake Bobcat,

    Again nice try in deflecting things but your last post did not have one thing that hasn’t been all over this blog tonight.
    that said, since it looks like nothing real is happening tonight I’m out.

  283. Dave December 4th, 2007 at 10:14 pm

    STOP OPEN YOUR BIG FAT MOUTH AND SHUT UP FOR ONCE. Your little deadlines have not helped and will NEVER help. Learn the game a little before you start deciding the future of the franchise.

  284. John Z December 4th, 2007 at 10:15 pm

    If the package of players is indeed agreed upon, and there is not yet a negotiating window with Santana/Greenberg, what is Theo negotiating deep into the night about?

    Remember, every major news outlet declared Santana a Yankee upon the inclusion of Hughes.

    Chances are Smith is still asking for Ellsbury, Bucholz, and Lester.

    You don’t need “Bobcat” to tell you that something does not make logical sense. Just because Peter Gammons wants the Sox to get Santana for Crisp/Lowrie/Masterson/Lester, doesnt mean it will happen.

  285. Jonathon December 4th, 2007 at 10:15 pm

    Uhh…Roger Clemens…kinda an ace…maybe?

  286. "Scoop" Johnson December 4th, 2007 at 10:17 pm

    Bobcat left like a military deserter. A search party has been assembled but no sighting to report. An unnamed source claims he may be under the protection of the Washington Gnationals.

  287. SAndMan December 4th, 2007 at 10:18 pm

    Alan Horne 25 AA pitcher.C’mon this guy is the reason Santana can’t win 20 games for us.Angels,Tigers just got better and the Red Sox might get much better…but we are the same team that won only one game in the playoffs and 4 games in the last three years in the playoffs.Great.

  288. Shamus December 4th, 2007 at 10:18 pm

    All right, the 10 pm ‘updated’ Mohegan Sports Tonight show is on… I’ll lisen for Johan updates.

  289. Phillips December 4th, 2007 at 10:19 pm

    Why are we talking about Santana. Lets talk about those “minor trades” Cash talked about…I am feeling Marteeeee

  290. Kill-Schill(ing) December 4th, 2007 at 10:19 pm

    Hey, bobcat, any chance you could enlighten me about the Yankees thinking concerning Horne.

    As far as I’m concerned anyone who knows how to use the word microcosm correctly in a sentence is worth an airing, regardless of his identity.
    Hey Bobcat, can you explain to me why the Yankees would allow Alan Horne to foreclose a deal for the best pitcher in baseball?

    The Yankees are stocked with pitchers in their farm system: brackman, garcia, sanchez, melancon, mccutchen, jb cox.

    Why would they allow Alan Horne to derail a deal? What’s so special about this guy? I can understand not wanting to include Hughes and IPK, but to yield Santana to the Red Sox over Alan Horne when you have multiple minor league kids to replace him– that I don’t apprehend.

    Bobcat, please enlighten me.”

  291. dontfirecash (though if he trades Phil, I might reconsider) December 4th, 2007 at 10:20 pm

    Do people saying Horne should not be the road block know anything about him? He is really good and if he can control his pitches(which he did for most of last season) he could be an excellent starter. If the Yanks were willing to give up Hughes, they should not have to give up Horne as well.

  292. stuart December 4th, 2007 at 10:21 pm

    brain surgeons now think you must ahve a #1 to win it all so now they think you should trade your whole team to get that # 1.

    Brain surgeon who wonders with a $200 mill payroll(or about) the yanks do not have a 3 1.. I will try to simplify it so your limited mind can comprehend; Pavano $10 mill, Giambi $21 mill, Moose $11 mill. Iagawa $4 mill., and overpaying for pettite, jorge, mariano, damon,farnsworth, arod, and abreu(none of them could duplicate there pay on the open market) cause you to waste about $70 mill…. the first 4 I mentioned could be eliminated from the team completely and it would not cost the Yanks 1 win…

    See these moves after the Yanks waste about $60 mill more on Santana then he is worth and when he is 32 he is waste i am sure all the dimwits on this site would understand the financial suicide the Yanks are in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  293. Nettles vs. Lee December 4th, 2007 at 10:22 pm

    One possibility is that the Yankees got cold feet about offering Hughes and used the Twins demand as an excuse to pull out.

    Another possibility is that it was the Yankees – not Boston – that was trying to drive the price for Santana up. Maybe it was the Yankees bluffing all along.

    Another possibility is that the Yankees thought that Boston was bluffing and called that bluff.

    Another possibility is that the Yankees are still bluffing and may have a chance to return to the table.

    Another possibility is that . . . a bunch of posters are jumping to the conclusion that it was Alan Horne that killed the deal.

  294. dontfirecash (though if he trades Phil, I might reconsider) December 4th, 2007 at 10:23 pm

    Alan Horne features a plus two seam fastball, a plus four seam fastball, a plus curveball and a plus sider. His changeup is pretty good as well. I repeat, that is FOUR plus pitches. Guys with that kind of talent don’t grow on trees.

  295. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 10:23 pm

    dontfirecash – i really like horne as well… i would personally give AJax no problem but would like to keep horne. i cant say that he still isnt worth throwing in to get santana… but people may be underestimating him.

  296. Nettles vs. Lee December 4th, 2007 at 10:25 pm

    I would throw in Jackson before Horne personally.

  297. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 10:25 pm

    stuart – are you trying to convince people to get santana or not? your garbled attempt only makes me think they need santana even more. because he is head and shoulders better than the guys you listed. thanks!

  298. PittsburghYankeeFan December 4th, 2007 at 10:26 pm

    Bobcat (real or fake)

    (1) Any chance the Twins consider the Yankees list without Hughes, perhaps with a sweetener? This seems like a great way to get this done now.

    (2) Are youi involved with the financials of the Detroit/Marlins deal?

    (3) Why are the Twins negotiating now? Why not wait for a few weeks/months until coller minds prevail?

  299. dontfirecash (though if he trades Phil, I might reconsider) December 4th, 2007 at 10:26 pm

    Boston Dave,
    Horne gets no love because he was a little old for AA(24, which ain’t that old) and there are bigger names ahead of him on the depth chart. Hopefully he’ll soon show people why some hold him in such high regard.

  300. PittsburghYankeeFan December 4th, 2007 at 10:27 pm

    THIS JUST IN:

    Micheal Kay for Hazel Mae!

  301. Tomy Gun December 4th, 2007 at 10:30 pm

    PittsburghYankeeFan
    December 4th, 2007 at 10:27 pm
    THIS JUST IN:

    Micheal Kay for Hazel Mae!
    ____________________________________________________________

    I will give you an AMEN to that!!!

  302. Mike Myers December 4th, 2007 at 10:31 pm

    Throw in Sterling for Cervasio and you got a deal

  303. Shamus December 4th, 2007 at 10:32 pm

    Sean McAdam at 10 pm

    “Seems as though the field of teams bidding is whittling out. NYY out, Angels out. The Sox are in a position where they are waiting to hear from Twins.”

    On CSN right now.

  304. Dave December 4th, 2007 at 10:32 pm

    O yea and I dont want to hear what a brilliant off-season the yanks had. They offered all of their own free agents more money and more yrs than any other team in baseball would have offered to get them to come back to the only team they know. And as for arod, he came back because the contract he thought was out there wasnt. Cash and Stein have been anything but brilliant. They have a ton of money, a ton of prospects and havent improved the team one ioda since we were knocked out in the first round of the playoffs for the third consecutive season. What did Jorge Posada (the yankees catcher who prolly know the pitching staff better than anyone) say when he was signed? WE NEED AN ACE. And I hate to break it to you but dan haren is def not an ace – he had a great season but in the long run, hughes will prolly be better thyan haren. Trading Hughes for Haren would be A HUGE mistake. His whip is mediocre every yr and wasnt much better than his avg last season. He doesnt walk many but he gives up a hit an inning – Joba and Hughes will do better than that. He strikes out a ton but so will they. His career era is 3.82 – Joba and hughes will do better than that. Dont trade for this guy, they will ask for too much. Santana is the only one worth giving up hughes. Id trade kennedy and some prospects at most but billy beane wont take that offer. All we can hope for now is the suxxxx and Santana dont come to terms.

    If I were the GM:
    I would have let Mo go onto the free agent market, signed castillo, signed cordero and said he would be our closer and I would have signed riske to pitch in relief. Then, i would have offered up Cano, kennedy, Horne, Melky and two high end prospects (Betances, Tabata, Jackson, Melancon) for Santana and Nathan. If Mo wasnt signed after that, I would have offered him less than what we offered him cuz there is no way he is getting that in FA maybe 2 yrs and 30 mil with a 15 mil option. The bullpen would then be Riske in the sixth, Cordero in the seventh, nathan in the eighth and Mo in the ninth until Mo starts sucking. Each when coming to the team would have thought they would close and once on it, we would just say we will figure it out. The rotation would be Santana, Wang, Hughes, Joba, Pettitte and Moose as the long man and on injury reserve. Castillo would take over for Cano at second and I would sign Rowand or Jones (whoever is the more worth their value) to take over for melky in center. I think the twins might take cano, kennedy, horne, melky, tabata and jackson for nathan and Johan as I think they were looking for quantity and that the prospects were useful future pieces. I wouldnt have started with that offer but i would have went up to that in the end and i think it is a very strong offer. All the yanks would lose is a little offensive production at second. Kennedy and melky wouldnt be missed much. And the younger prospects prolly wont even impact the team this yr and the FA market is pretty strong next yr and their production and talent isnt very difficult to replace. They should have said Joba and Hughes were untouchable in the beginning! And never put hughes into the deal esp not quickly – idiots.

  305. Mister Delaware December 4th, 2007 at 10:35 pm

    I’m sad you typed all that out.

  306. Keith December 4th, 2007 at 10:36 pm

    PLEASE MAKE LOG-INS FOR THIS BLOG. IT IS BEYOND RIDICULOUS WITH THE FAKES.

  307. 213 Area Code December 4th, 2007 at 10:36 pm

    “Cashman…ducked every question like Kevin Youklis facing Joba Chamberlain.” Can’t speak for DYoung, but Mal Florence, Shav Glick, and maybe even (the sainted) Mr. Murray are laughing their a**** off. Thank heaven for this blog. Speaking of heaven, this time last year who in the H*ll could have pictured Lil’ Stein as the Mahdi of NYY Universe?

  308. Shamus December 4th, 2007 at 10:37 pm

    McAdam 10 pm

    “Twins sought Lester’s medical records for due diligence for a player with a remarkable health history.”

    “Question people are asking… why NYY’s Cashman turned down that many or that much of his young prospects (four as of Tues AM, Hughes, Melky, Marquez and Horne)? Does he value and hold his young prospects that much? Twins told him that those four would get it done…”

    Then, McAdams goes on to compare what the Sox getting Johan to their rotation would be compared to… He cites Schilling/Johnson of turn of century, and then the Braves of early 90s…

    Nice…

  309. sharp shooter December 4th, 2007 at 10:37 pm

    If the redsucks land Santana not only will they lose some players but becket gets a new contract and Santana get a mega contract.So redsucks will not be able to get in our way in future negotiations for awhile they will be broke for sure. redsucks aren’t worth a billion dollars.

  310. VOIII December 4th, 2007 at 10:37 pm

    Thank g-d for Cashman and his patience…If he were like a lot of the posters on this blog, he would have given the Twins Joba, Hughes and IPK….Just be patient and watch the price come down…Once the Redsox are exposed, the price will be IPK and some of the other names mentioned and not Hughes. Boston is not in this for real. Neither are the Angels who need offense Not pitching….The tight wad Dodgers will never pay the price….

  311. Shamus December 4th, 2007 at 10:38 pm

    Mister Delaware
    December 4th, 2007 at 10:35 pm
    I’m sad you typed all that out.

    On ref to Dave’s post, that was great!

  312. mike December 4th, 2007 at 10:39 pm

    Dave.

    Steve Phillips, is that you?

  313. Nettles vs. Lee December 4th, 2007 at 10:42 pm

    I wish Dave were the GM . . .

    . . . of the Boston Red Sox.

  314. Dave December 4th, 2007 at 10:42 pm

    mister del,

    You have a better idea? Please share it with us. I dont think its such a ridiculous proposition. You guys love to criticize without stating your own opinions. very intelligent!

  315. Dave December 4th, 2007 at 10:45 pm

    You guys are morons. What is wrong with that trade? You would rather get rid of hughes. Oh yea and cash and stein are doing such a great job. We increased our payroll by 20 – 30 mil and we have the EXACT SAME TEAM that lost in the ALDS! Good job to cash and stein. Congrats. And the media was actually calling this a ghood off season. Its the exact same team that had the highest payroll and sucked for a large portion of the season and then, took a nose dive to the indians. Where is the changes? What, torre gone? We need an ace, we need to keep johan from the sox. Its pretty simple. Dont offer hughes or chamberlain and get santana. You have the most money, the best prospects and you cant do it. Its sad actually.

  316. Dave December 4th, 2007 at 10:49 pm

    VOII what a brilliant move. Let the redsox think they have santana. Tell the twins to tell the sox that they agree to a deal. Lets even let them negotiate terms. Then, Johan can put on a redsox hat and hold a press conference. then, we can offer the twins IPK instead of hughes and see if the twins like that offer better when we already offered hughes weeks ago and the twins like the sox offer currently more than our hughes package. Cash is such a genius! You guys are really just in your own little worlds arent u

  317. Dave December 4th, 2007 at 10:50 pm

    keep criticizing guys but dont mention any reason why or what is wrong with what i said. Very good conversation – very intelligent. Three posters in a row criticize my post but dont say a single reason why or way to fix it or even discuss it in the slightest

  318. Dave December 4th, 2007 at 10:55 pm

    sharp shooter,
    Everyone was saying that last yr after the sux signed Dice-k for 100 mil, JD Drew and Lugo for double their worth at the very least. They go out and sign johan now- i think they have the money for it. Otherwise they wouldnt be able to do it.

  319. hmmm December 4th, 2007 at 10:55 pm

    this place is overrun with the stupid tonight.

  320. sunny615 December 4th, 2007 at 10:57 pm

    hmmm
    December 4th, 2007 at 10:55 pm
    this place is overrun with the stupid tonight.
    ———–
    that’s being kind.

  321. Dave December 4th, 2007 at 11:01 pm

    huh?

  322. MP December 4th, 2007 at 11:07 pm

    “As for Cashman, we met with him for 10 minutes or so and he ducked every question like Kevin Youkilis facing Joba Chamberlain.”

    Man, you sure know how to pander…

  323. Dave December 4th, 2007 at 11:13 pm

    Voices… voixes in my head….

    I have no control of my silly, stupid mouth….

    Pay no mind to me….

  324. Dave December 4th, 2007 at 11:18 pm

    hey @$$ – what exactly was so stupid? Sorry u all think cashman is god or something. God forbid I say he is an idiot and stein doesnt know how to control his mouth and we should be in the lead for santana right now. You would think if we had more prospects and more money than the suxx we would have santana right now. Im sorry that was more than ur tiny brains can handle. Morons

  325. S December 4th, 2007 at 11:18 pm

    HANK IS AN UNMITIGATED…BUFFOON. EVEN IF WE WERE OUT OF THE TRADE TALKS WITH THE TWINS, WHY WOULDN’T WE STAY IN IT JUST TO MAKE SURE THE RED SOX PAID THE HIGHEST PRICE POSSIBLE FOR JOHAN? FOR THE RED SOX TO ACQUIRE SANTANA WITHOUT GIVING UP BUCKHOLZ (THEIR PHIL HUGHES) IS SIMPLY RIDICULOUS.

    IN HIS BRIEF TENURE AT THE HELM, HANK HAS MANAGED TO ALIENATE GM’S AROUND THE LEAGUE, BLATANTLY TAMPER WITH THE PLAYERS OF OTHER TEAMS, AND SABOTAGE HIS HIS TEAM’S CHANCES OF PICKING UP THE BEST PITCHER IN BASEBALL IN ONE FELL SWOOP. GOOD JOB HANK…

  326. lil' m December 4th, 2007 at 11:24 pm

    Pete, I’m with ya. You’re a tireless source of information and laser wit. Talk about above and beyond . . . PeteAbe is on the case 24/7. Somebody give this man a medal or at least a really cold beer. Looking forward to 2008 with anticipation, Johan/no Johan/no no Nanette or whatever. Can’t wait for spring . . .

  327. Old Yanks Fan December 4th, 2007 at 11:54 pm

    Kill-Schill(ing) – Horne is rated just below IPK and will be our 6th starter or better. He is rated below IPK because he has had trouble with control, although last year he had a break out season. If he can get him command, he has a much higher upside then IPK, and a possible #2/#3. He is a bit of a risk as there as a lot of pitchers with very good stuff who don’t make it big due to lack of control. Bruney is a good example, although Horne has more pitches then Bruney.

  328. ET90210 December 5th, 2007 at 12:26 am

    Kind of an odd rendering of Hank Steinbrenner, but it’s pretty close if you start long enough! haha

    http://mlbfleecefactor.com/200.....inbrenner/

  329. ET90210 December 5th, 2007 at 12:33 am

    Just wanted to also note something of more importance. Seems like no Haren either. I hate Billy Beane! haha

    http://mlbfleecefactor.com/200.....-a-yankee/

  330. Kurt From Branford December 5th, 2007 at 1:25 am

    I am a little dissappointed we didn’t throw in a prospect the twins wanted (except IAK). Myab e throw in 2 extras besides Hughes and Cabrera. As much as I didn’t want to give up Hughes we cannot allow Santana to just walk into Red Sux Disgracion. Pitching wins championships and we are losing this battle badly. Wang is not a#1. Petite is older but still our best. Rest is unproven but apparently bright. But that rotation dwarfs our dreams of any championship in the foreseeable future.

  331. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2007 at 3:28 am

    Dave
    December 4th, 2007 at 10:32 pm
    O yea and I dont want to hear what a brilliant off-season the yanks had. They offered all of their own free agents more money and more yrs than any other team in baseball would have offered to get them to come back to the only team they know. And as for arod, he came back because the contract he thought was out there wasnt. Cash and Stein have been anything but brilliant.

    If I were the GM:
    _________________________________________________
    Where to start…everywhere. You weren’y right on anything.

    This next line can be summed up in about 5 words…
    The Yankees would be contracted.

  332. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2007 at 3:38 am

    Dave
    December 4th, 2007 at 10:50 pm
    keep criticizing guys but dont mention any reason why or what is wrong with what i said. Very good conversation – very intelligent. Three posters in a row criticize my post but dont say a single reason why or way to fix it or even discuss it in the slightest

    ____________________________________________________
    Perhaps because everybody’s laughing so hard at you that they can’t answer.

  333. Big D December 5th, 2007 at 7:56 am

    Little Stein is quickly becoming the biggest joke in MLB. The yanks are losing all credibility when it comes to free agency and now trades. Opening the door for Johan to go to Boston will haunt us for a long time.

  334. A-Point December 5th, 2007 at 8:59 am

    Love these pronouncements.

    What will everyone think if the RS and Twinkies don’t come to any agreement? That it was because the Yankees were out of it?

    Shouldn’t it give people at least a pause to think when it seems no other team other than the RS right now are looking at Santana? To me there are a couple of reasons for that.
    1. They saw the Yankees going through all their motions, relenting and putting Hughes in the deal, and then Smith looking for more after it was said he would deal if Hughes was included. Add that Smithy is new at this game, and seeing how things were going maybe all the teams who might have looked are figuring that Smith needs to be sitting on this thumb for a while so he understands that he over played his hand.

    Or 2. There is concern over some things seen by Scouts through the year with Santana. His delivery, his lack of using the slider, the additional HR he was giving up.

    Another thing I have to wonder about this, is what is the true driving reason that the RS are looking like they are in this, yet its the same freakin’ deal from the beginning that the RS are offering, or they are taking out a lot of players if Ellsbury is inserted?

    Maybe there is concern over some of their bats this coming year and they need even more shut down pitching. Ortiz had knee surgery, Manny wasn’t quite up to his usual self, without that 1-2 punch in the lineup their offense suffers a good deal. Think Lowell will continue to be an over .300 hitter?

    This whole thing is just really strange.

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