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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Yankees pick up reliever

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Dec 04, 2007 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

The Washington Post is reporting that the Yankees have traded RHP Tyler Clippard to the Nationals for right-handed reliever Jonathan Albaladejo.

He’s a big (6-5, 250) guy who made his debut in September and had a 1.88 ERA in 14.1 innings. Albaladejo is 25.

I called the Yankees to try and confirm this and have yet to receive an answer.

UPDATE, 12:50 p.m.: Pending physicals, a done deal. Seems like a good move for the Yankees. Clippard had fallen off their radar.

Comments

comments

 

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321 Responses to “Yankees pick up reliever”

  1. Shdw December 4th, 2007 at 12:24 am

    Good. Clippard didn’t have a spot here

  2. Vertigo December 4th, 2007 at 12:25 am

    LOL I wouldnt have traded a bag of Burger King for Clippard so we got a steal.

  3. Ben December 4th, 2007 at 12:26 am

    Yea, he seems like he could have some value. He did good at Columbus AAA too.

  4. EY December 4th, 2007 at 12:26 am

    Sounds good to me. Fixing bullpen is much more important than getting Santana. (Save Phil Hughes!)

    He’s from NL though…hmmm

  5. Chicago Dave December 4th, 2007 at 12:26 am

    Here’s a story on (and a picture of) our new reliever:

    http://washington.nationals.ml.....8;c_id=was

  6. hughesian bias December 4th, 2007 at 12:26 am

    aw poor tyler clippard. he was eclipsed by the big 3, and a bunch of other pitching prospects, but i liked him and matt desalvo. not as SP’s for the yankees in 2008, though. best of luck to him.

    i hope he gets to start for the nats.

  7. BA December 4th, 2007 at 12:27 am

    the guy was released by the Pirates in April !!

  8. Shdw December 4th, 2007 at 12:27 am

    I’m pretty happy with this trade from what I hear so far. I’m also happy Hughes is a Yankee still so far

  9. EY December 4th, 2007 at 12:28 am

    lol Nats probably need all the starting pitching help they can get.

  10. Jeff December 4th, 2007 at 12:28 am

    Thats Manny Acta.

  11. VOIII December 4th, 2007 at 12:28 am

    Hey any one catch his middle name? Santana…

  12. Rocco December 4th, 2007 at 12:28 am

    This is good for Tyler because he is going to be able to start in the majors now.

  13. el comaduce December 4th, 2007 at 12:28 am

    Is there any site that includes scouting info, PLUS pitches etc? Espn used to do it years ago…

    I am dying to see what this kid can throw…

  14. Chicago Dave December 4th, 2007 at 12:29 am

    Yeah, that is Acta in the picture…My bad!!!

  15. Dewey December 4th, 2007 at 12:29 am

    I liked Ty, anyone remember that Sunday night game @Shea? The dude hit a double and got the W!

    Best of luck to him!

  16. Rebecca--Optimist Prime December 4th, 2007 at 12:30 am

    So we do get (a) Santana.

    Life is good.

  17. Rob NY December 4th, 2007 at 12:30 am

    yeah he throws fastball splitter

  18. Devon December 4th, 2007 at 12:30 am

    I never even heard of this guy until today. I doubt he lasts long on the Yankees. Anyone know how hard this guy throws?

  19. Tom December 4th, 2007 at 12:30 am

    Making deals with Washington = not talking to Minnesota?

  20. Chicago Dave December 4th, 2007 at 12:30 am

    “I liked Ty, anyone remember that Sunday night game @Shea? The dude hit a double and got the W!”

    Maybe he’ll be the next Micah Owings now! HA!!

  21. hughesian bias December 4th, 2007 at 12:30 am

    yea i remember a couple of good starts from him. oh well. we really didn’t need him. unless the twins wanted him in a straight-up trade for johan.

  22. whoa December 4th, 2007 at 12:30 am

    The Yankees sold low, but they are so stocked with ML starters that they probably wanted to create space.

  23. J-Dawg December 4th, 2007 at 12:30 am

    Cashman could have a good find with Albaladejo. He’s unheralded, but he did have good stats from his cup of coffee in the Majors. This is exactly the kind of under the radar acquisition that sometimes turns to gold. Good luck is a product of hard work and now maybe the Yankees and Cashman will benefit from this hard work. Albaladejo could prove to be a steal, you never know.

  24. EY December 4th, 2007 at 12:31 am

    Cashman: “Hey guys, we traded for Santana without giving Hughes and Melky and Kennedy. A warm welcome for Jonathan SANTANA Albaladejo!”

  25. Carmine December 4th, 2007 at 12:31 am

    My roommate’s a Nationals fan and he was big on Albaladejo, so sounds good.

  26. mike f December 4th, 2007 at 12:31 am

    that was a great game he tossed at Shea, dewey. i’m sure all yankee fans wish ty clip all the best luck

  27. Aram December 4th, 2007 at 12:32 am

    Good deal !! should be funny hearing McCarver trying to pronounce the name Albaladejo

  28. Chicago Dave December 4th, 2007 at 12:32 am

    In the last thread, the mysterious “Bobcat” said the Santana trade had just been made, with Hughes, Cabrera and the Attorney General going to the Twinkies. Wonder if that’s really true…

  29. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 12:32 am

    where are you getting 250lb?

    i thought he was 230

  30. mel December 4th, 2007 at 12:34 am

    Just drop the ‘nat’ from the first name and the last name (he needs a nickname) and you have your ‘Johan Santana’.

  31. asburyboss December 4th, 2007 at 12:34 am

    playing Chris Britton this year is Jonathan Albalawhateverthef*ck

  32. JeterMack Clutch December 4th, 2007 at 12:34 am

    nats friend (friend that likes nats lol) says he has low 90 2 seamer with a biting curve and came out of nowhere in septiembre homes

  33. Chris December 4th, 2007 at 12:35 am

    http://192.20.225.55/tts/speec.....793e86.wav

  34. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 12:35 am

    dont be surprised if clippard is a solid #3 in the NL in 2 years…. i think the yanks gave up on him too soon (though he would prob just be trade bait later) so i hope the new guy is good.

  35. Nolan December 4th, 2007 at 12:35 am

    Wow, Chris how did you get McCarver to say that?

  36. Chicago Dave December 4th, 2007 at 12:36 am

    The new guy sure is a big boy…6’5″ and 250?! They must want a bodyguard for Edwar Ramirez…

  37. mel December 4th, 2007 at 12:37 am

    Over/under on how long it’ll take for Cashman to flip him?

  38. Carmine December 4th, 2007 at 12:37 am

    Well, the bullpen is a need and we have a decent amount of young starter with potential. It’s a formula deal.

  39. Phil December 4th, 2007 at 12:37 am

    Gator let TClipp’s mechanics go south. He could be a steal for the Nats.

  40. Ed - Brooklyn NY December 4th, 2007 at 12:37 am

    I wonder why the Yanks didn’t try and get back Nick Johnson? I miss his high ops and his ability to hit the ball to the opposite field with authority.

    Is Nick still on the DL?

  41. Tom December 4th, 2007 at 12:37 am

    Good K:BB ratio and BB/9 innings. I like the move. Clippard had no future here, and no real upside. He’s an NL pitcher.

  42. Rob NY December 4th, 2007 at 12:38 am

    lol Im 6’5 250 pounds ^_^ i dont think im too fat

  43. mike f December 4th, 2007 at 12:38 am

    i believe i saw this new kid pitch an inning in Atlanta in september…the name sounds familiar…

  44. whozat December 4th, 2007 at 12:39 am

    “The Yankees sold low, but they are so stocked with ML starters that they probably wanted to create space.”

    How much are you going to get for a guy who’s upside is back-of-the-rotation starter in a year or two. Sure, he could challenge for a rotation spot on a terrible team like the Nats, right now, but he’s a year away from pitching from cracking a solid rotation.

    Cash got a 25 year old reliever with good peripherals and some MLB experience. That’s a pretty even swap, especially when you already have a bunch of back-of-the-rotation type guys.

  45. Nolan December 4th, 2007 at 12:39 am

    Rob your anime emoticon usage says otherwise…

  46. #9 December 4th, 2007 at 12:40 am

    “My roommate’s a Nationals fan…”

    Tell him we our condolences.

  47. asburyboss December 4th, 2007 at 12:40 am

    If Carl Pavano played first base they’d call him Nick Johnson.

  48. whozat December 4th, 2007 at 12:40 am

    “playing Chris Britton this year is Jonathan Albalawhateverthef*ck”

    By that do you mean the role of “fat guy who deserves a legit shot but won’t get it”?

  49. kasey December 4th, 2007 at 12:41 am

    the fake trade was posted by fake bobcat.

    looks like santana’s going nowhere. as long as he’s not in boston, that’s fine.

  50. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 12:41 am

    Makes a lot of sense for both teams. Clippard is a better bet in the NL than he ever would have been in the AL and could prove to be a third or fourth starter for the Nationals. Albaladejo, meanwhile, showed a lot of promise as a reliever both in Triple-A and in a late-season callup.

  51. hmmm December 4th, 2007 at 12:42 am

    “By that do you mean the role of “fat guy who deserves a legit shot but won’t get it”?”

    there’s a new sheriff in town. if he deserves a shot, he’ll get it.

    no more “Joe’s Guys”.

    Exhibit A: goodbye Andy Phillips.

  52. kasey December 4th, 2007 at 12:43 am

    clippard’s the guy who, after coughing up a lead said – and i’m paraphrasing – it was no big deal, that being down a run or two, with that offense, was like having a two-run lead.

    good riddance.

  53. Emobacca December 4th, 2007 at 12:43 am

    Thank god Torre isnt here anymore because this is the exact type of guy he would never give a chance to out of the pen

  54. whozat December 4th, 2007 at 12:43 am

    “dont be surprised if clippard is a solid #3 in the NL in 2 years…. i think the yanks gave up on him too soon (though he would prob just be trade bait later) so i hope the new guy is good.”

    But they needed bullpen help now and will almost certainly have plenty of options to fill out the back of the rotation two years hence. Classic deal from strength kind of thing. I don’t think they gave up on him, just that he doesn’t fill a need for them.

  55. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 12:43 am

    whozat,

    clippard was a pretty good prospect (in line with some of the guys we consider high upside now) but he had a couple bad ML starts and everyone thinks he is useless…

    it seems like a good trade for both teams but the yanks definitely sold low.

  56. Kingrover December 4th, 2007 at 12:44 am

    asburyboss

    re: comparing pavano to Nick the Stick

    Thats not entirely fair, Nick was as frustrated as anyone with his injuries. Many of them were freak (foul ball that broke his cheek, collision that broke his leg).

    Nick is a terrific player when he plays and works hard at getting back on the field.

  57. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 12:44 am

    whozat, i think you are right…. i was responding more to the posts that clippard is a bum or something to that effect i guess. it helps both teams (assuming the new guy does anything)

  58. Chicago Dave December 4th, 2007 at 12:44 am

    hmmm – That’s a good point.

  59. Chris December 4th, 2007 at 12:44 am

    http://media.putfile.com/Jonathan-Albaladejo

  60. Thrillington December 4th, 2007 at 12:45 am

    Asburyboss:

    I’m sorry, I couldn’t read your whole post. I burst out laughing at the part that said “If Carl Pavano played…”

    Oh man…that was hilarious.

  61. whozat December 4th, 2007 at 12:45 am

    “if he deserves a shot, he’ll get it.”

    I certainly hope so. Torre would too often ignore a new guy and then put him in a game after a 7 day layoff, watch him get burned because his stuff wasn’t sharp, and then never use him again.

  62. raymagnetic December 4th, 2007 at 12:46 am

    Trust me, Chris Britton is at least 300lbs. I’m about 6’6 260lbs and my physique is much slimmer than Chris Britton’s.

  63. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") December 4th, 2007 at 12:46 am

    A Red Sox official told Yahoo! Sports Tim Brown that he believed the Yankees and Twins were “very close” to completing a Johan Santana trade.
    His seems to be the minority opinion at the moment, but all one side has to do is blink for a deal to get done, or at least for contract talks to start. The current guess is that Santana will seek a six-year extension worth around $150 million.

    Source: The Associated Press

    maybe he is Bobcat ?

  64. whozat December 4th, 2007 at 12:47 am

    “i was responding more to the posts that clippard is a bum or something to that effect i guess.”

    Yeah, those posters are naive…but no more than Michael Kay, who’s been talking about how unimpressed he is with Hughes after watching him have a bad august – after coming back from two non-trivial injuries.

  65. Rob NY December 4th, 2007 at 12:47 am

    alright gents im going to sleep… carry the flame and argue over who we trade for johan if a trade is released tonight lol

  66. Chicago Dave December 4th, 2007 at 12:47 am

    Chris Britton = The real Jabba the Hutt (even Joba Chamberlain looks like Slim Jim next to Britton!)

  67. gianthinker December 4th, 2007 at 12:47 am

    Thx for the confirmation Pete. I like this move. The pen is our biggest need easily and Clippard just would never have a place with the Yankees. Besides he’ll do better in the NL anyway.

  68. raymagnetic December 4th, 2007 at 12:47 am

    “clippard was a pretty good prospect (in line with some of the guys we consider high upside now) but he had a couple bad ML starts and everyone thinks he is useless…”

    Clippard doesn’t have a good enough fastball and pitches off of his curveball. His numbers in the minors are a bit deceiving because he pitches backwards.

  69. Michael L December 4th, 2007 at 12:48 am

    I would give up Desalvo for him, the yanks could do get much more for Clippard.

  70. kasey December 4th, 2007 at 12:48 am

    fake bobcat! love that guy!

  71. Ed in PR December 4th, 2007 at 12:49 am

    Bobcat
    December 4th, 2007 at 12:47 am
    I can confirm this. It went down right before the Santana deal.

    The Messiah has spoken…

  72. Buddy Biancalana December 4th, 2007 at 12:49 am

    fake bobcat!

  73. pat December 4th, 2007 at 12:51 am

    I think Joe Girardi is going to be a good manager but he isn’t getting a magic wand with the job. So far today people have said he’s going to fix Farnsworth, turn the Yankees into a better situational hitting team and whip a bullpen that currently only consists of a closer into a well oiled machine.

  74. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 12:51 am

    interesting.. Bobcat makes a logical post but is it the real Bobcat???

    not likely

  75. Phil Linz December 4th, 2007 at 12:51 am

    Brandon, is there a link?

  76. asburyboss December 4th, 2007 at 12:52 am

    Kingrover…bottom line, can’t make the club, sitting in the tub.

    Pavano got injured speeding to a rehab start, wrapped up his Porsche, concealed the injury…and tried to gut it out. Alas his dreams were dashed when he tried the old “pull my finger” trick with Jose Tabata and ended up dislocating 2 knuckles, straining a tendon, and cracking a bone.

    I was making a joke. I had high hopes for Nick…

  77. Vader December 4th, 2007 at 12:52 am

    Gotta love the imposter

  78. Andrea December 4th, 2007 at 12:52 am

    poor Matt DeSalvo :(

  79. raymagnetic December 4th, 2007 at 12:52 am

    Joe Girardi = The Messiah.

    What you didn’t know?

  80. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") December 4th, 2007 at 12:52 am

    rotoworld and yahoo sports

    AP Red Sox source said deal is close for Santana and Yanks

  81. hughesian bias December 4th, 2007 at 12:53 am

    fake bobcat again… he’s saying that “he can confirm this” because someone called him fake on the premise that the real bobcat would not leak new info, he’d only confirm or reject rumors.

    nice try.

  82. Ed in PR December 4th, 2007 at 12:53 am

    I need to get up in 4 hours, I fighting the urge to just hit the sack and call it a nite. Must stay up for just one more update from Pete……

  83. kasey December 4th, 2007 at 12:53 am

    pat,

    those girardi expectations all sound reasonable. after all, torre was the real problem in new york.

    also, pencil hughes in for 16 wins, a 3.4 ERA and some cy young votes. in his first full season in the bigs. realistic.

  84. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 12:53 am

    Brandon… you’re way behind on that

  85. Chicago Dave December 4th, 2007 at 12:54 am

    Andrea – Why “poor Matt DeSalvo”? Aren’t you ecstatic that the Yanks didn’t trade your favorite crush?! ;)

  86. Nolan December 4th, 2007 at 12:54 am

    This is ridiculous. Can we just know whats going on?

  87. Matt December 4th, 2007 at 12:54 am

    SOUNDS LIKE YOU NEED SOME SLEEP PETE, 12:50 PM? LOL TRY AM GO TO SLEEP BRO!!

  88. Ice Age December 4th, 2007 at 12:54 am

    Brandon… A Red Sox source? Please…

  89. hughesian bias December 4th, 2007 at 12:54 am

    ed in pr -

    i know. i have a 15 pg paper due on thursday and i’m on the intro. the freakin’ intro.

  90. pat December 4th, 2007 at 12:54 am

    raymagnetic

    The memo must have gotten stuck in the spam filter with 100′s of my posts.

  91. kasey December 4th, 2007 at 12:54 am

    fake bobcat, real bobcat doesn’t refer to the yankees as “we.” come on, buddy. try harder. at least make it entertaining.

  92. asburyboss December 4th, 2007 at 12:54 am

    and what would Matt DeSalvo do for the Nats? ticket taker?

    groundscrew? I chuckled reading one little game capsule on the new guy Jonathan Alajawhatever…it said he came in in relief of Tim Redding!!!! THE Tim Redding? wow…must suck being a Nats fan

  93. Pete G. December 4th, 2007 at 12:55 am

    i see UPDATE: a done deal, pending physicals, and im like holy crap santana is a yankee, my heart skipped a beat……

  94. Vader December 4th, 2007 at 12:55 am

    I’ll read about nothing in the morning.

  95. LCâ„¢ December 4th, 2007 at 12:55 am

    kasey,
    “those girardi expectations all sound reasonable. after all, torre was the real problem in new york.”
    are you being sarcastic? because I can never tell with you lol

  96. hughesian bias December 4th, 2007 at 12:55 am

    ah, yea, something else, too. this fake bobcat said that he was in a conference room on his blackberry with cashman and others. and he wrote that he would look suspicious writing on his blackberry the whole time so that the post was his last, yet here is again…

  97. kasey December 4th, 2007 at 12:55 am

    northwest cable news just told me the mariners “pulled out” of the santana sweepstakes. i love that the mariners were ever mentioned to begin with. when was the last time the mariners were a major player in ANY deal? come on.

  98. Steve Howe You Doin December 4th, 2007 at 12:55 am

    Keep the Kids Cash, Keep the Kids…

  99. mike f December 4th, 2007 at 12:55 am

    i don’t find either “bobcat” very impressive.

  100. #9 December 4th, 2007 at 12:56 am

    “i know. i have a 15 pg paper due on thursday and i’m on the intro. the freakin’ intro.”

    Ahhh… reminds me of my college days… don’t worry – you’ll be amazed what BS you can make up the late night/early morning before thew paper is due…

  101. asburyboss December 4th, 2007 at 12:56 am

    that Yahoo report concerning the Yankees being “very close” (per the Red Sox)is bogus. its been around for hours now. Technically, they’re right…it is VERY CLOSE- just one prospect away…

  102. Bobcat December 4th, 2007 at 12:56 am

    Hughesian Bias:
    I wasn’t really exposing anything that wasn’t already about to come out. I guess Hank and/or Pohlad want to postpone the official announcement for a few extra minutes.

  103. fleas December 4th, 2007 at 12:56 am

    kasey, How did you get you music on iTunes. I ask because I am a developer for tunecore, and that is what we do.. as well as distribute to other online music retailers.

    p.s. and I just got a gibson robot guitar.. get it Friday! Can’t wait.

  104. Andrea December 4th, 2007 at 12:57 am

    hughesian bias: get on that! I just finished a 50 page thesis! if I can do that, you can do a little tiny 15 page paper!

  105. hughesian bias December 4th, 2007 at 12:57 am

    i still need to get a good grade on the paper! i need a job after this year, it sucks being a senior. i love BC.

  106. kasey December 4th, 2007 at 12:57 am

    LC,

    yeah. i think people’s expectation that girardi will be a difference maker is idiotic. i think people expecting hughes, chamberlain and kennedy to lead this team to the playoffs as rookies is idiotic. or, maybe not idiotic. wishful thinking is probably better. because these people aren’t idiots. they’ve just deluded themselves into thinking this stuff will happen.

  107. Chicago Dave December 4th, 2007 at 12:58 am

    Andrea – Did you have a crush on Clippard, too?

  108. Keith December 4th, 2007 at 12:58 am

    This blog really needs log in…

  109. Steve Howe You Doin December 4th, 2007 at 12:58 am

    Sign Johan next year and keep the kids! Let’s duke it out with youth this year – while Beckett/Santana games make great ESPN Sunday night fare, I’d just as quickly sign up for Hughes/Lester and Joba/Buchholz.

  110. hughesian bias December 4th, 2007 at 12:58 am

    andrea –

    i want to get on it, but i have this little addiction called pete abe’s blog. it’s so hard to stop hitting the refresh button!! i’ll get it done, though, don’t worry about me. you won’t see me on this site on wednesday night.

  111. Ed in PR December 4th, 2007 at 12:59 am

    Im here chain smoking just to keep my eyes open… Ill just sleep walk thru my first class and cough up a lung during recess.

  112. Chief Bromden December 4th, 2007 at 12:59 am

    the suspense is killer

  113. Phil Linz December 4th, 2007 at 12:59 am

    Pete G, where did you see that?

  114. Rebecca--Optimist Prime December 4th, 2007 at 12:59 am

    I can’t decide whether to go to sleep or not…

  115. Steve Howe You Doin December 4th, 2007 at 1:00 am

    Bobcat – you indicated a Nathan trade before Santana. Why Santana first, now?

  116. #9 December 4th, 2007 at 1:00 am

    “i still need to get a good grade on the paper! i need a job after this year, it sucks being a senior. i love BC.”

    Don’t rush! Working for a living is not the paradise it seems!

  117. Bobcat December 4th, 2007 at 1:00 am

    I’d like to point out that I had the Clippard deal confirmed 3 minutes before Abe.

  118. hughesian bias December 4th, 2007 at 1:00 am

    ok Fobcat, i’ll play your game. who’s the third player in the deal?

  119. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") December 4th, 2007 at 1:00 am

    Brandon… A Red Sox source? Please…

    yeh it went on rotoworld at 12:06 it’s refering to an article at 11:28 PM , sorry people

  120. kasey December 4th, 2007 at 1:00 am

    fleas,

    the label i’m on handles all of that stuff. but, essentially, you get your stuff on itunes the same way you get it in stores, via a distributor. i believe the digital distribution company that handles my stuff is IODA.

    that robot guitar freaks me out. and, really, how hard is it to tune a guitar?

  121. Steve Howe You Doin December 4th, 2007 at 1:01 am

    And 2 minutes after Rotoworld…

  122. yankeesrule2000 December 4th, 2007 at 1:01 am

    “Brian (Cashman, the general manager) is meeting with (the Minnesota Twins) probably right now,” Yankees senior vice president Hank Steinbrenner said by phone at about 9:15 p.m.

    Asked if the Twins had to take the Yankees’ latest offer on Santana by last night or the Yankees would pull out of negotiations, Steinbrenner said, “I’m not going to comment on that. I’m kind of leaning that way.”

    About two hours later, a Yankees official said the talks were still ongoing. Steinbrenner indicated the Yankees might be looking elsewhere for rotation help, saying, “Other developments are taking place too.” He declined to elaborate, but top-notch pitchers Dan Haren of the A’s and Erik Bedard of the Orioles are thought to be available.

    According to a person familiar with the Santana discussions who asked not to be named because he is not the chief decision-maker for his team, that proposal is not enough to convince the Twins to trade Santana. The person said Minnesota is still willing to go into next season with Santana — who is eligible for free agency a year from now — and is not worried about Santana’s reported threat to veto a trade during the season.

    The Twins like Boston outfielder Jacoby Ellsbury much better than Cabrera, but the Red Sox — according to an official with a team involved in the Santana talks who asked not to be named because of the sensitive nature of trade discussions — were “sitting (and) waiting” last night for an answer from the Twins. Boston offered either Ellsbury or pitcher Jon Lester, along with prospects.
    http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/inde…820.xml&coll=1

  123. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") December 4th, 2007 at 1:01 am

    I can’t decide whether to go to sleep or not…

    I want to but I can’t :(

  124. Andrea December 4th, 2007 at 1:01 am

    Chicago Dave: that was BBB. She had the thing for Clippard. He was a good pitcher and all, but my heart belongs to Matt DeSalvo!

    Hughesian: I’m glad I didn’t discover blogs while I was in college. I might not have graduated.

  125. kasey December 4th, 2007 at 1:01 am

    this fake bobcat is AWFUL.

  126. hughesian bias December 4th, 2007 at 1:01 am

    #9 –

    i don’t think it’ll be a paradise, unless of course i work for the travel channel in the caribbean, but it would be nice to have over $200 in the bank every once in a while…

  127. Phil Linz December 4th, 2007 at 1:02 am

    Rebecca, you are in for the long haul, face it. I am too, and I have a trial tomorrow.

  128. BennyFromTheBronx December 4th, 2007 at 1:02 am

    Just watched some video of Albaladejo pitching two games against the Mets in late September. Here’s what I can tell you:

    He’s got a 91-93 mhp two-seem fastball with a lot of downward movement and a 78-81 mph slider which he uses as his out pitch.

    He handled the Mets pretty easily (then again, who didn’t in September), getting Reyes to pop up on a slider, Castillo to strike out looking on a slider, and Wright to ground out on a slider.

    Whatever chance he has at success hinges on his slider, which in the small sample looked above average.

  129. Phil Linz December 4th, 2007 at 1:03 am

    Brandon, link?

  130. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") December 4th, 2007 at 1:03 am

    BennyFromTheBronx, link the video of Albala – dejo here

  131. Chicago Dave December 4th, 2007 at 1:04 am

    Andrea – Oh, I was just kidding about the Clippard thing. However, I’m still confused why you said “poor Matt DeSalvo”? (Maybe because people were saying he’s a lousy pitcher?) Just curious…

  132. Bobcat December 4th, 2007 at 1:04 am

    Update:

    1) This is my first post of the day (Monday included).
    2) The Santana thing is still in play, but the odds are now on the short side (25% chance of happening). PH/MC/IPK not happening.
    3) Pettitte’s returning has something to do with it, but it’s more about how Hank feels about the process. Plus, those within the organization that didn’t want to trade Hughes are not asking Hank if he’s sure he wants to walk away.
    4) The Yankees’ sense is that with Pettitte back and Joba in the rotation, they actually HAVE improved themselves.
    5) Cashman’s focus has been on MR; to that end, the Clippard trade. Expect more.
    6) Nathan is still in play. His trade is tied to Santana’s now. Twins are flip-flopping, unfortunately.

    I said yesterday that IF I’m the Yankees, and IF my goal is to win NOW, I go for it and trade PH/MC/prospect for Santana. I DON’T do the PH/MC/IPK. Not with Pettitte back for a year. And don’t underestimate the importance that those 200 IP will have on saving/growing the kids.

    This has been a big day for the Yankees, in that they got a LHP without costing anything but cash.

    Santana is still in play, though. The betting money is on him staying in Minniesota for awhile. Maybe a week, maybe a month, maybe seven months.

    “It’s up to the Twins.”

  133. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") December 4th, 2007 at 1:05 am

    Phil Linz, early report pretty much no credence after the deadline came

  134. Andrea December 4th, 2007 at 1:05 am

    Chicago Dave: yeah. there was a bit of DeSalvo bashing going on. I felt the need to lament it.

  135. #9 December 4th, 2007 at 1:05 am

    “Hughesian: I’m glad I didn’t discover blogs while I was in college. I might not have graduated.”

    What ever happened to the good old days when kids couldn’t finish college on time because of too much drinking & partying?

  136. Uncle Vito December 4th, 2007 at 1:05 am

    Midnight talks should bring Santana finally to Yankees….Everyone saves face….story in the wee hours of the morning is gonna be my bet…

  137. Rebecca--Optimist Prime December 4th, 2007 at 1:05 am

    Phil: But I got class!

    Hughesian Bias: I’m a uni senior, too. I’m not sure I want to see what my grades are going to look like…

  138. DadinIowa December 4th, 2007 at 1:05 am

    Phil Linz: Last I remember, you were the best all-around utility player the Yankees EVER had. You have some age on you now, though. When did you retire? :)

  139. fleas December 4th, 2007 at 1:05 am

    Kasey,

    “that robot guitar freaks me out. and, really, how hard is it to tune a guitar?”

    You have to try it before you make that assumption.. it is really slick. Although that was secondary for why I got one.. first was that is is a limited edition les paul, and the color is so sweet.. then of course that it auto tunes to 8 presets.. but best of all the price for me.. since a large percentage of our company is owned by guitar center :)

  140. hughesian bias December 4th, 2007 at 1:05 am

    re: albaladejo, i’d like to add that he has a really, really low number of walks. this might be great for us considering out bullpen last year would load the bases full for edwar or mo.

    http://thebaseballcube.com/pla.....dejo.shtml

  141. #9 December 4th, 2007 at 1:06 am

    “He handled the Mets pretty easily (then again, who didn’t in September)”

    Shhsssshhhh Boom!

  142. Ed in PR December 4th, 2007 at 1:06 am

    Thanks Bobcat, off to bed everyone, sleep tight….

  143. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") December 4th, 2007 at 1:07 am

    ahhh the real Bobcat :D

  144. Paulie December 4th, 2007 at 1:07 am

    It’s 1 in the morning, why are we all still awake?

  145. Joba the Great December 4th, 2007 at 1:07 am

    Welcome to the party, real Bobcat.

  146. Steve Howe You Doin December 4th, 2007 at 1:07 am

    Now that sounds like Bobcat

  147. hughesian bias December 4th, 2007 at 1:07 am

    rachel –

    lol, i have my resume out now before grades are posted so my gpa won’t take any more hits. i need a job. hopefully there’s an opening in yankeeland…

  148. #9 December 4th, 2007 at 1:07 am

    Twins want Horne & Jackson along w/ Hughes & Melky per Heyman on WFAN – not Kennedy.

  149. Chicago Dave December 4th, 2007 at 1:08 am

    Andrea – Oh, I don’t know how many times we had this conversation during the season…and even you ultimately had to admit the guy had no future as a pitcher! (Come on, you remember that night, don’t you?!)

  150. Phil December 4th, 2007 at 1:08 am

    Thanks Bobcat,

    With Pettitte back, the Yanks get that 200 innings he can give to get them to the playoffs. By the, Phil and Joba could be exactly the type of starters we need to win a playoff series or three.

    I’m hoping Cashmoney Green is using his Jedi mind tricks to get the Twins to hang onto Santana, while he holds onto Hughes.

  151. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") December 4th, 2007 at 1:08 am

    Heyman just told WFAN right via Steve Sommers

    Minny is no longer asking for IPK and now want Horne and JAckson instead

    ARE THESE GUYS FOR REAL !!!

  152. Phil Linz December 4th, 2007 at 1:08 am

    Sleep thru it, Becca. But I will be at attention when His Honor strolls in. Are you on the lawyer track?

  153. DadinIowa December 4th, 2007 at 1:08 am

    Are talks with the Twins over for tonight? I have to go to bed.

  154. Phil December 4th, 2007 at 1:08 am

    The Twins can’t have Horne and Jackson in the same trade as Hughes. They don’t really want a trade.

  155. William December 4th, 2007 at 1:09 am

    I think im the only one that wants igawa around. I mean he did have 5 shutout innings in his last start….

  156. CB December 4th, 2007 at 1:10 am

    Bobcat,

    All the reports tonight make it sound that Boston is really not very serious in this. That they were really in it only to drive the price up. I saw that on multiple sources.

    Any thoughts?

    Were the twins ever interested in Horne or Jackson or did they never move off Kennedy?

    Non-yankees – are the tigers seriously thinking about trading Andrew Miller in a package for Haren? Was reported on Yahoo. I can’t imagine trading that kind of left handed arm, especially after giving him that monster signing bonus only a year ago.

  157. BennyFromTheBronx December 4th, 2007 at 1:10 am

    Watched the video on MLB.com’s website, but I think one needs to be a subscriber to do so.

    For those who are, here’s where you’d find the game:

    http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/scoreboard/20070917.html

    Fastforward to the top of the 5th.

  158. Chicago Dave December 4th, 2007 at 1:10 am

    Now the Twins want Horne, Jackson AND Hughes (plus Cabrera) for Santana? Are they throwing Joe Nathan and Justin Morneau into the deal? Please…This is getting obscene. Just say “no” and walk away for good!!

  159. Andrea December 4th, 2007 at 1:10 am

    #9: that’s why I didn’t finish early. I entered college with about a semester’s worth of college credit. I could have graduated a semester early if I so chose :)

    Chicago Dave: but I can still feel bad for him! He’s still a nice guy…

  160. Rebecca--Optimist Prime December 4th, 2007 at 1:11 am

    …..

    Dude, even on a blog people call me Rachel?

    why is it that when you’re female and Jewish you’re either Rachel, Rebecca or Sarah and you always know they’re addressing you even when they get the name wrong?

  161. Phil December 4th, 2007 at 1:11 am

    There is not a player in baseball worth Hughes, Horne, Jackson and Cabrera. None.

  162. el comaduce December 4th, 2007 at 1:11 am

    if they want horne and jackson, pull hughes, drop in kennedy… Call Boston’s bluff

  163. #9 December 4th, 2007 at 1:11 am

    “#9: I could have graduated a semester early if I so chose :)”

    Andrea – College to me was the best 6 years of my life.

  164. Peter Rabbit December 4th, 2007 at 1:11 am

    I don’t know…maybe it’s late and he’s tired, but Bobcat never had grammar mistakes.

    So now with the Heyman news–we can’t lose Jackson if the Melkman is gone. We kinda need young outfielders.

  165. KC December 4th, 2007 at 1:12 am

    Jonathan Albaladejo was training to be a starter at some point of his minor league career, and then transformed back into a reliever. His stats are here: http://www.thebaseballcube.com.....dejo.shtml

    What do you guys think?

  166. Bobcat December 4th, 2007 at 1:12 am

    Phil et al:

    Can’t blame the Twins. Ask for the moon. Remember, impatience is expensive. They’re testing Hank’s patience. I certainly wouldn’t do that trade (PH/MC/AH/AJax).

    There’s no need for anyone to have inside information; it’s all being leaked like a mass corporate email.

  167. Rebecca--Optimist Prime December 4th, 2007 at 1:12 am

    Phil: Despite having done mock trial in high school, I am not on that track.

    I would like to teach and write novels.

    And maybe a little blog thingie.

  168. Meh December 4th, 2007 at 1:12 am

    What would be hilarious is seeing Cashman walking out of the room with the Twins people, and them calling after him … well how about Tabata and Jeter? or maybe A-Rod if you pay his contract and Papelbon… oh and a pizza from 5th avenue…

  169. CB December 4th, 2007 at 1:13 am

    “There is not a player in baseball worth Hughes, Horne, Jackson and Cabrera. None.”

    Albert Pujols. Prince Fielder.

    I love yankee prospects but let’s keep some perspective.

  170. Ray December 4th, 2007 at 1:13 am

    Bob Cat = Bob Johnson owner of Charlotte Bobcats Basketball Team!

    I think the Yanks are trying to find a 3rd party pospect to put in play for Santana. Like taking a contract and a good player to flip to Minn. I wonder if Haren could be had along with their always injured 3B Chavez for some Mid Level prospects. Or am I way out in LF?

  171. Phil Linz December 4th, 2007 at 1:13 am

    God bless, you kid. Stay warm.

  172. DadinIowa December 4th, 2007 at 1:15 am

    Bobcat: Are the talks over for the night? If they are, is the deal dead? (crosses my fingers and hopes the deal is dead and Melky and the trinity are Yankees come opening day)

  173. Rebecca--Optimist Prime December 4th, 2007 at 1:15 am

    Phil: thank you. I will try but living off campus means that heat is a rarity.

    Right, I am out. Good night all.

  174. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 1:16 am

    DadInIowa, why dont you ask Bobcat if he thinks PH,MC, prospect for Johan is a good deal for the Yanks or not?

  175. Bobcat December 4th, 2007 at 1:16 am

    CB:

    The Red Sox certainly were interested at the right price, which was no big boys. The sense is that once they were “in”, they have to play it out, not necessarily to the culmination of a trade. I don’t think they are going to be disappointed if he stays in Minn.

    The Twins are trying to extract as much as they can. They have always been interested in the Yankees’ pitching prospects. Every team is and should be.

    Tigers? Can’t speak to that rumor.

  176. rodg12 December 4th, 2007 at 1:16 am

    Bobcat,

    Can you confirm the Andrew Miller from Det for Dan Haren rumors??

  177. Andrea December 4th, 2007 at 1:17 am

    #9: college for six years is expensive! I’ve got 4 years of undergrad, 2 and a half years of grad school so far. lots of money!

  178. Phil December 4th, 2007 at 1:17 am

    Bobcat,

    I think the Twins are not gonna trade him, and instead are gonna go back to him and say: you were two valuable to trade how `bout 6 years, 120M?

  179. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") December 4th, 2007 at 1:17 am

    F’ THAT I’ll take my car to Nashville right now just to get one shot at Bill Smith !!

  180. Bobcat December 4th, 2007 at 1:18 am

    Peter Rabbit:

    Do I have a grammar mistake? I didn’t notice.

  181. #9 December 4th, 2007 at 1:19 am

    “I’ve got 4 years of undergrad, 2 and a half years of grad school so far.”

    You would have made my parents proud!

  182. jew4jeter December 4th, 2007 at 1:20 am

    Albadejo’s Minor league totals

    IP 537.1 ERA 3.54

    HR/9 0.77 BB/9 1.73 K/9 7.37 WHIP 1.18

    What a concept! A guy in the bullpen, other than Mariano, who can actually throw the ball over the plate!

  183. Andrea December 4th, 2007 at 1:20 am

    #9: not if your parents saw the bills from NYU!

  184. Greg December 4th, 2007 at 1:21 am

    from ESPN:

    1:09 a.m., from Jayson Stark
    • The Yankees’ “by Monday night” deadline came and went. And Johan Santana was still a Twin when Tuesday arrived at the winter meeting. But even though the Yankees and Twins were still talking about different combinations as the night grew later and later, there was no indication that they were any closer to a deal for Santana than they were four days ago. In fact, if anything, the momentum seemed to be in the opposite direction. Officials from other clubs said several of the Yankees’ baseball personnel at the meetings had begun openly questioning whether they even wanted to make this trade if the Twins said yes. “The more this goes on,” said one AL executive, “the less they want to do it.”

    http://sports.espn.go.com/espn…..r_meetings

    YESS !!!:)

  185. Bobcat December 4th, 2007 at 1:21 am

    DadInIowa:

    I think the talks could go on for months, off and on, or it could be over tonight. As I said earlier, this is about tesing Hank’s patience. Remember, this is his first foray with the other teams, so there’s some feeling out. Shouldn’t be hard for them to “read” Hank, though.

    Phil:

    I don’t see Minn. ponying up that kind of money. Anything outside of the normal operating budget doesn’t get spent.

  186. gianthinker December 4th, 2007 at 1:22 am

    You know the worst thing about these meetings? They are by far the most exciting part of the offseason but once they are over there is like a month of nothingness and thats excrusiating!!!

  187. CaptainsCorner December 4th, 2007 at 1:22 am

    The Twins are a joke!! They were obviously just f–kin around with the Yanks. They asked for Hughes they got it and now they want 10 other prospects!! Why didn’t they ask for Joba and Cano??!! I don’t get it. They didn’t want them??!!So what does Beane want for Haren, 10 prospects or will he cut the Yanks a break and only ask for 6. What a joke, good thing this is over with now the joke of an organization can take there 1 draft pick next year.

  188. GreenBeret7 December 4th, 2007 at 1:23 am

    CB
    December 4th, 2007 at 1:10 am
    Bobcat,

    All the reports tonight make it sound that Boston is really not very serious in this. That they were really in it only to drive the price up. I saw that on multiple sources.

    Any thoughts?

    Were the twins ever interested in Horne or Jackson or did they never move off Kennedy?

    Non-yankees – are the tigers seriously thinking about trading Andrew Miller in a package for Haren? Was reported on Yahoo. I can’t imagine trading that kind of left handed arm, especially after giving him that monster signing bonus only a year ago.

    __________________________________________________
    You’ll know soon enough. If you wake up tomorrow and the Twins have traded Nathan to the Red Sox for Coco Crisp and Brendan Donnelly.

  189. #9 December 4th, 2007 at 1:23 am

    The Yankees told the Twins earlier that they did not want to include Horne or Jackson. Two GMs from other teams said they believe Horne is “a No. 5 starter,” but one scout said Jackson has tremendous potential.

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html

  190. Vertigo December 4th, 2007 at 1:23 am

    Greg

    What kind of loser says “YES!!!” when their favorite baseball team DOESNT acquire the best pitcher in baseball? By the way, that is a rhetorical question.

  191. Bobcat December 4th, 2007 at 1:23 am

    The rumor/hope going around this afternoon was that Albadejo was somehow related to Jessica Alba.

  192. el comaduce December 4th, 2007 at 1:23 am

    met fans keep talking about getting bedard… if your the phillies, who would you trade the mets bedard for besides reyes

  193. Phil December 4th, 2007 at 1:24 am

    They offered him 4/80, it would just be 2 more years at the same money. I guess we’ll see. Maybe they’ll just get the picks.

  194. Bobcat December 4th, 2007 at 1:25 am

    GreenBeret7:

    Haven’t heard that one.

  195. el comaduce December 4th, 2007 at 1:25 am

    The Twins have reportedly asked for Jacoby Ellsbury, Jon Lester and Jed Lowrie from the Red Sox for Johan Santana.
    Apparently, that and Phil Hughes, Melky Cabrera and Ian Kennedy are their two ideal scenarios as return packages from Boston and New York. Since it doesn’t look l

    -rotoworld

  196. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 1:26 am

    Vertigo,

    get used to it. lots of people here have already anointed Hughes as Hall of Famer, best pitcher in baseball, extrordinaire….

  197. Master Wangkee December 4th, 2007 at 1:26 am

    “if they want horne and jackson, pull hughes, drop in kennedy… Call Boston’s bluff”

    I like your idea. Kennedy/Jackson/Horne beats the Sox package…

  198. rodg12 December 4th, 2007 at 1:26 am

    Alright, bed time for me. Good discussion today. At least we had something go down, although it wasn’t what I was expecting!

  199. Vertigo December 4th, 2007 at 1:26 am

    GreenBeret

    If the Red Sox get Nathan for Coco and Donnelly, I quit as a baseball fan. There is nothing you can do and it is no longer fun to be a fan when it is apparently the goal of every other team in baseball to literally hand the World Series to Boston every year.

  200. hughesian bias December 4th, 2007 at 1:26 am

    #9 –

    college is fun, but there comes a time to move on. i’m *almost* looking forward to graduation, even though i have no idea where i’m gonna end up working.

    bobcat, please hire me? i can be your scribe while you dicate the posts you want to make on pete abe’s blog.

  201. Bobcat December 4th, 2007 at 1:26 am

    Phil:

    That offer (4/80) was totally out of character for that franchise. Hard to imagine they would go two more years. I don’t think 20M per gets it done, though.

  202. CB December 4th, 2007 at 1:26 am

    Bobcat,

    One other – is there anything behind the mets being “very close” to landing bedard as has been widely reported?

    I don’t see them having the prospects. And I’d think the O’s would move very slowly on moving Bedard. Wait at least until Santana’s situation is resolved with more clarity.

  203. Greg December 4th, 2007 at 1:27 am

    Vertigo: I just think it’s better long term to avoid giving up all our talent to pay santana $150 million

  204. #9 December 4th, 2007 at 1:27 am

    “#9: not if your parents saw the bills from NYU!”

    Andrea – college costs are mind boggling these days but think of it as an investment.

  205. #9 December 4th, 2007 at 1:28 am

    Twins have reopened talks with Red Sox per Heyman/WFAN.

  206. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") December 4th, 2007 at 1:28 am

    HEYMAN SAID YANKS TOLD TWINS TO TAKE A HIKE, TWINS NOW TALKING TO BOSTON

  207. el comaduce December 4th, 2007 at 1:29 am

    I could see if the mets had any real pitching prospects…. I wonder if they would have to trade maine or perez, or both….

  208. mel December 4th, 2007 at 1:29 am

    Bobcat,

    You spelled it Minniesota.

    Thanks for the info. We’re getting pretty good at sniffing out the fakes. Won’t tell how, because they’re pretty sneaky.

  209. E-ROC December 4th, 2007 at 1:29 am

    Hey, a reliever that can throw strikes.

  210. Vertigo December 4th, 2007 at 1:29 am

    Boston Dave

    I guess I just dont understand how people can ignore the facts. Phil Hughes may turn out to be great but it is not like we are trading him for Chris Capuano. We would be trading him for the best pitcher in baseball. This isnt just a convenient label, it is actual reality. He is basically Pedro Martinez but lefthanded (maybe a little stretch but pretty close). Somebody needs to do a little serious critical thinking before deciding to cheer missing out on Johan especially if he goes to Boston.

  211. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 1:29 am

    Greg,

    did they decide to give Joba and Kennedy along with Hughes?

    also, its heartwarming that you’re so concerned with the Steinbrenners billions. maybe you can help them with their 401k and look for a new vacation house. i personally dont care if they drop 150M for the best pitcher in baseball but i dont have the same consideration that you do.

  212. hughesian bias December 4th, 2007 at 1:29 am

    i hope you guys are right about the twins/yanks talks being over. please, god, please!!

  213. Giuseppe Franco December 4th, 2007 at 1:29 am

    I said this morning that they will not be landing Santana now that Pettitte has returned.

    I have little doubt that Cashman and Co. will be perfectly content going to war next April with Wang, Pettitte, Moose, Joba, and Hughes with Kennedy getting plenty of starts and Horne getting his shot at some point during the season.

    They will probably kick the tires on Haren and Bedard, but they will not be pursued aggressively.

    I said it last week but don’t be shocked if Santana starts Opening Day for the Twins.

    Pettitte’s return has effectively changed everything and for good reason.

  214. Bobcat December 4th, 2007 at 1:30 am

    CB:

    MacPhail is notorious for not making a quick decision. My guess is that the Mets don’t have enough top prospects to get Bedard, but it depends on how badly they want him. If you’re the O’s, do you take the best four that the Mets have to offer?

  215. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 1:30 am

    Vertigo,

    like i said.. get used to it. and dont try to convince anyone. they have hard wired it in their heads….

    Phil Hughes = Hall of Fame

  216. el comaduce December 4th, 2007 at 1:30 am

    John Heyman just said that the yanks said not to the horne jackson combo

  217. CB December 4th, 2007 at 1:30 am

    Heyman reporting on WFAN that the yankees have turned down Hughes/ Horne/ Jackson/ Melky.

    According to heyman the twins have recontacted the Sox.

  218. el comaduce December 4th, 2007 at 1:31 am

    now we see how serious the sawx are

  219. #9 December 4th, 2007 at 1:31 am

    “college is fun, but there comes a time to move on. i’m *almost* looking forward to graduation,”

    Hughesian – I know where you are coming from – best of luck!

  220. A-Point December 4th, 2007 at 1:31 am

    I really don’t see this deal going down. The longer you think about Phrancise being dealt away along with your CF the worse the taste in your mouth.

    Too much has been invested in Hughes over the years, that also means the dreams and hopes. I think of the way he was pitching in the early part of his career – prior to the injury, and we all were impressed that he looked as advertised. Then after the injury he didn’t seem to have it.

    Eiland came up, talked about how he saw some things in Hughes delivery being off, then shortly thereafter Hughes was doing better with each outing.

    The Twins lost a good deal by looking for more. I think the Yankees dodged a bullet here.

    The trade could very well still happen, but my gut says that the new Twins GM just doesn’t know the limits yet. Hank I think even started having second thoughts. With Pettitte back the need receeds a bit. It allows for more objectivity.

    Sure Santana would be a great addition, but the cost the Twins were given was too much, then they asked for more.

    I am not unhappy about this.

  221. Boston Dave December 4th, 2007 at 1:31 am

    night all….

    lets start the countdown…. its only 5 months until the season starts and Phil Hughes throws his first of many many perfect games en route to his hall of fame career and thirteen world series MVPs….

  222. DadinIowa December 4th, 2007 at 1:32 am

    Brandon: Do you have a link?

  223. Mike December 4th, 2007 at 1:32 am

    “Heyman reporting on WFAN that the yankees have turned down Hughes/ Horne/ Jackson/ Melky.”

    Good.

  224. #9 December 4th, 2007 at 1:32 am

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html

    People involved in the talks said they believe the situation is coming to a head and that Minnesota will make its call, one way or the other, in fairly short order. The Yankees have been seen as the favorite, but Boston may have renewed hope based upon the midnight phone call.

  225. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") December 4th, 2007 at 1:33 am

    if I were w/ Cash & Hank I’d jump over that table a KO Smith for that stupid suggestion

  226. Bobcat December 4th, 2007 at 1:33 am

    Greg:

    From a pure baseball/business standpoint, the asking price is way too high at this point. But the Yankees’ model is not the norm.

    mel:

    Sorry about that. Fingers faster than brain. I don’t usually read all of the posts, sorry to say, just the most recent ones before I post, as most bad information is already exposed as such by the posters on this blog pretty quickly.

  227. Stevie B December 4th, 2007 at 1:33 am

    The Twins are now going back to the Red Sox to try and get the Yankees to cave. The Red Sox are not going to give the Twins Ellsbury and Lester. Hopefully the Yankees stand their ground on their original offer.

  228. Vertigo December 4th, 2007 at 1:33 am

    Greg

    The 150 million should be irrelevant. The Yanks can afford it easily and it wont prevent them from spending that money on anybody else. The prospects are all that matter and none of them are even close to Santana at his worst (last year) and probably couldnt even dream of him at his best (2 CY youngs). Remember Oliver Perez was once a cant miss prospect as was Kris Benson supposed according to Gammons a multi CY Young winner as his future as have been numerous other guys. Hughes hasnt proved he cant be a consistent starter in the majors yet and you would rather keep that uncertainty then getting THE BEST PITCHER IN BASEBALL!!!!

  229. mel December 4th, 2007 at 1:34 am

    If the Sox negotiate an extension what do you think the final terms would be?

  230. CB December 4th, 2007 at 1:35 am

    Bobcat:

    No way I take the mets top four prospects for Bedard. Not even close because if you trade Bedard you must get back front end pitching, preferably lefty for him.

    Martinez/ Guerro/ Gomez/ Mulvey/ Pelfer/ Humber/ etc.

    I can’t get 4 guys there for Bedard.

  231. hughesian bias December 4th, 2007 at 1:36 am

    Bobcat December 4th, 2007 at 1:33 am

    Greg:

    From a pure baseball/business standpoint, the asking price is way too high at this point. But the Yankees’ model is not the norm.

    mel:

    Sorry about that. Fingers faster than brain.
    ————————–

    you know, bobcat, i have an excellent finger/brain connection, if that is of interest.

  232. Vertigo December 4th, 2007 at 1:36 am

    And I like Hughes, dont get me wrong. I think he will be an excellent pitcher and probably an ace. But the point is you cant be basing your hopes on probably. You have to go with as close a certainty as possible and you cant get any closer in baseball right now than Santana.

  233. mel December 4th, 2007 at 1:36 am

    Bobcat,

    lol. I don’t care. You were just wondering “out loud” what the error was.

  234. hughesian bias December 4th, 2007 at 1:38 am

    twins going back to the red sox? i thought this was EXACTLY what hank wanted to avoid! if the twins went back to the red sox and hank plans on sticking by his word, it means that the yankees are out of it.

  235. Vertigo December 4th, 2007 at 1:38 am

    Bobcat

    How involved in the negotiations is Cashman? Or is it all Mr. Steinbrenner?

  236. Bobcat December 4th, 2007 at 1:38 am

    CB:

    A year ago, you might have done that trade, what with the status that Pelfrey and Humber enjoyed as “top prospects”. Funny how “prospects” can be just that; they are often better used to get an true ace. Just as long as you don’t have to give them ALL up at once….

  237. LCâ„¢ December 4th, 2007 at 1:38 am

    They wanted BOTH?!?! Wow. It’s not like Santana is going to resign with them, and they arent going to get a better offer anywhere else than Hughes, Melky, and a 2nd tier prospect. Have fun with those 2 draft picks, Minnesota.

  238. Ray December 4th, 2007 at 1:38 am

    No one disagrees that Santana isn’t great! Some of us are a bit concerned at how badly he has performed against Boston & the last half of last year. He has pitched a lot of innings and that is a concern.

    Hughes was exceptional last year before he got hurt & then again at end of year. Muscle injuries tend to linger even ater being “Healed”. This year could be very special for Hughes.

    As always with pitching it is a chance thing. Either one could get hurt and then the whatifs start. (See Carl Pavano!)

  239. Peter Rabbit December 4th, 2007 at 1:38 am

    Bobcat,

    You’re writing is not as smooth as usual, must be the long day.

    Anyway, thanks for keeping us night owls up to day. Between Baseball Tonight, the FAN, and these blogs, how can any of us get to sleep?

    Watcha think Hank is doin right now? Really everybody, just try to envision it.

    It’s hard to imagine him NOT sitting back in a big leather chair smoking a cigar, thinking really hard about Santana.

  240. Peter Rabbit December 4th, 2007 at 1:39 am

    haha, of course I make a typo! Your*

  241. hughesian bias December 4th, 2007 at 1:41 am

    hahah peter rabbit –

    he’s probably got a cat on his lap as well, and he’s petting it as he puffs on his cigar. i can see it.

  242. Mr. GoodKat December 4th, 2007 at 1:41 am

    Glad to see the Yanks stood their ground. I’m fine with trading Melky, but we can’t lose AJax too.

  243. kasey December 4th, 2007 at 1:41 am

    now the sox are back in?! kill me.

    if santana comes to new york, great.

    if he stays in minnesota, fine.

    if he winds up in boston, forget the next few years.

  244. hughesian bias December 4th, 2007 at 1:41 am

    i envision all of this in front of a fireplace as well. damn i need to get to bed.

  245. Phil December 4th, 2007 at 1:42 am

    I’m hoping that Andy Pettitte and Brian Cashman have saved the farm.

  246. mel December 4th, 2007 at 1:42 am

    Vertigo,

    The sticking point is NOT Hughes. It’s that they want a former #1 prospect, a center fielder good enough to be a Yankee starter, and a 4-star prospect?

    I think that “cold feet” sums it up very well. I’m glad that Hank is not chasing his shiny toy (and we all agree that it’s VERY shiny) at all costs. The old George would’ve chased and given in.

    It’s a gamble, but the odds are if Santana hits the street he knows where to hit paydirt. Hank has a set dollar amount in his mind, whether it’s Dec. ’08 or November ’09, it’ll be the same.

  247. CB December 4th, 2007 at 1:42 am

    Bobcat:

    Well said. A year ago it doesn’t look so bad. But Pelfrey and Humber not developing have just wrecked the mets organization.

    Its such an interesting comparison with the yakees.

    The yanks made the right call in 2004 with Phil and then 2006 with that potentially historic draft of IPK/Joba and Betances.

    Its something how dearly teams pay for making mistakes in the draft like the mets did with those two. You really get punished now with the price of pitching.

  248. Vertigo December 4th, 2007 at 1:43 am

    I wonder why everyone thinks it is ok to call Mr. Steinbrenner “Hank”. Are we on a first name basis with the man? Did we all have a nice handshake with him and he said “Sure, call me Hank.” I specifically refer to Peter Abraham since he is supposed to be the professional one here and yet he finds it in his infinite wisdom to refer to Mr. Steinbrenner as, in no particular order “Little Stein”, “Mini-Stein”, “Hammerin’ Hank” and “Hank”. I guess Mr. Abraham must be really good buddies with Mr. Steinbrenner to have as many off the cuff nicknames for the man as he does.

  249. kasey December 4th, 2007 at 1:43 am

    the twins request makes no sense.

    “you can’t have kennedy, horne or jackson.”

    “alright, how about horne AND jackson?”

    i mean, sure they should be asking for the moon, but that defies logic.

    when they called boston, did they ask for lester, ellsbury and bucholz?

  250. fleas December 4th, 2007 at 1:44 am

    Well, see you all tomorrow

  251. LCâ„¢ December 4th, 2007 at 1:44 am

    kasey,
    you honestly think the Red Sox will give up Lester, Ellsbury, and Lowrie?

  252. CB December 4th, 2007 at 1:46 am

    kasey,

    That’s the thing. What are the yankees supposed to do here?

    There is no way they can accept those proposals for one year of santana and the rights to negotiate with him and give him $150 million.

    I don’t know what the twins or sox are doing. But if they ask the yankees for Hughes/ Horne/ Jackson/ Melky and are turning around to boston to rehash a lester/ coco/lowrie/masterson deal what are you going to do?

    Hughes was by far the best talent offered to the twins.

    They’re not interested you have to move on.

  253. Bobcat December 4th, 2007 at 1:47 am

    kasey:

    Remember that the Twins’ fans are reading each update with as much passion as Yankees’ fans. Part of this is the posturing for the fan base.

  254. stuart December 4th, 2007 at 1:47 am

    let the sux get Santana they are becoming the bad yankees. keep it up and the sux will win as many World series over the next 5 yrs. that the Yanks have.

    For the person saying Sanatan is a gurantee, newsflash there are no guarantee’s in sports. Santana can get hurt Tuesday morning.. Paying that type of many and trading those type of prospects area very bad gamble.. If you think it is a sure thing getting Snatana leading the Yqnks to the WS you are wrong. .With Santana the Yanks are at best 2/1 to in it all and there pen sucks and there fielding would be much worse then last yr…

  255. Ray December 4th, 2007 at 1:48 am

    The Red Sox don’t need Santana. The Yanks do. The Twins need a replacement for Santana & a CF. The Yanks can wait till Free Agency for Santana. The Twins can’t. I expect the Twins to cave by end of next week & take Hughes/Melky/+1 mid range P prospect with a possible high ceiling.

  256. Vertigo December 4th, 2007 at 1:49 am

    Stuart

    I said that Santana was closer to a guarantee than Hughes is. And if you can accept that than there isnt much that can help you.

  257. hughesian bias December 4th, 2007 at 1:50 am

    i doubt hughes will be on the table next week.

  258. mel December 4th, 2007 at 1:51 am

    Hughesian,

    I agree, this was as much as saving Hughes as it was moving the process along.

  259. CaptainsCorner December 4th, 2007 at 1:53 am

    From newsday:

    I spoke to Hank Steinbrenner at 12:45 Eastern Standard Time this morning, and while he was pessimistic about the Yankees’ chances to get Santana, he said that talks with Minnesota were ongoing.

    “Brian (Cashman) was giving them one more shot, and we’ll see what happens, ” Steinbrenner said. “It doesn’t look good to me.”

    Steinbrenner later added: “We’ll sleep on it. Whatever it is, we’ll discuss it one final time. But I’m beginning to think they just don’t want to trade him.”

  260. Vertigo December 4th, 2007 at 1:53 am

    I want someone to explain to me why the Twins would trade the best pitcher in baseball to the team that already won the World Series, obviously making an already good team even better for a package of players that wouldnt help them compete anytime soon when they could get a much better package elsewhere. If they dont go with our deal, then they had damn well better not go with the Red Sox deal because they would be better off taking the draft picks. Since when is a center fielder who has played probably 20 games in the majors the equal to the best pitcher in baseball. At least if you get Hughes you are getting a guy who has the potential to replace the ace you are trading away. With Ellsbury you are getting a leadoff man. Those two things really seem to be equal.

  261. EY December 4th, 2007 at 1:53 am

    I still say, if Yanks don’t get Santana, he’ll stay in Minny.

    Boston doesn’t need him, and they aren’t there to get him in the first place. They aren’t desperate enough to offer a package that will satisfy the Twins. They’re just in it to add to the injury and drive up the price.

  262. CB December 4th, 2007 at 1:53 am

    If the twins come back to Hank and company it’ll be interesting to see what happens.

    It sounded like it was gut wrenching for the organization to even offer up hughes at all.

    Cash told Jason stark he was worried that if they pulled off the deal he’d be giving up a Cy young award winner who’d haunt the yankees for years.

    There’s a lot of posturing in there but I’m sure this was not easy.

    I wonder if the twins have blown there chance to land Phil. If they need reapproach the yankees at some later time they’ll be doing so with even less leverage.

    Though I’m sure these discussions are far from over for right now…

  263. kasey December 4th, 2007 at 1:54 am

    CB,

    agreed. if they really turn around and take a lesser package from boston, what can you do? i was all for including hughes in the deal and the yankees did that. hughes, cabrera and a b-level prospect is a solid offer. if the twins, for whatever reason, prefer the boston packages, then that’s that. i think boston has the division pretty much sewn up for a few years if they get santana, but what can you do? i guess it takes some of the pressure off the kids (right).

    i just think people have to set realistic expectations. you want to watch the kids grow? fine. it should be exciting. but don’t expect a championship with a rotation of wang, pettitte and three rookies. also, prepare yourself for the reality that NONE of the kids pans out. or that only one of them pans out. the odds of all three being good are slim-to-none. so, while you’re crowing about the cy youngs hughes is going to rack up and the hitters joba’s going to blow away, stop and ask yourself, “how many prospects actually live up to expectations.” if you want to watch the yankees build from within, fine. be prepared to witness – at the very least – some failure along the way.

    now, if you want the yankees to win NOW, then you’ve got to be awfully disappointed that they didn’t get santana. because, without a certified ace (and, sorry, wang showed the world he ain’t one) they aren’t winning anything this year, no matter how much the offense mashes.

  264. A-Point December 4th, 2007 at 1:55 am

    One thought just came to me.

    Hughes was offered on either Thursday or Friday, right? It was said that Pettitte decided on Saturday that he was going to return. I now think that Pettitte, upon hearing that the Yankees were going to possibly lose Hughes gave him the push to return.

    Pettitte is a long time, true blue Yankee. I believe he really was set to retire, but seeing the Yankees moving toward dealing away their best developing pitcher for Santana might have just hit him on a personal level.

    I could see him figuring that the Yankees really needed a strong SP who was lefty. That did it for him.

  265. kasey December 4th, 2007 at 1:59 am

    and by the way, good luck to hughes next season. have fun proving to the baseball world that you were worth all of the public agonizing over on the yankees end in the santana trade. nothing like being saddled with “future cy young” winner at the age of 21.

    and good luck to melky cabrera trying to enjoy the game while spending the entire season wondering when he’s going to be shipped somewhere for a front-line pitcher and separated from his best friend, cano.

    and good luck to cano once melky’s gone. if we know one thing about the kid, it’s that he sometimes gets too far into his own head, as we’ve seen how a poor hitting game effects his fielding.

    the ramifications of this trade will be felt, even if it doesn’t happen.

  266. Vertigo December 4th, 2007 at 1:59 am

    If you can do a deal for Hughes, Melky and Horne you have to do it. I dont think throwing in Ajax is the right thing to do because we will eventually need youth in the outfield. But we have a plethora of pitching and Horne is not necessarily the best of the bunch

  267. E-ROC December 4th, 2007 at 1:59 am

    The Yankees should just walk away from the table and continue to build the bullpen.

  268. The Bronx Stop December 4th, 2007 at 2:00 am

    From Washington.Nationals.MLB.com:
    It didn’t take long for Albaladejo to get a chance to speak for himself. The day after his callup, Washington starter Tim Redding suffered a shoulder injury while fielding and had to leave the game with one out in the third. Acta called on Albaladejo, who fought off butterflies to retire all five batters he faced, three of them by strikeout.

    “I was kind of nervous at the beginning,” Albaladejo said, “but after I threw my first pitch, everything was fine. I started taking it as another game. It was awesome. Great feeling.”

  269. Vertigo December 4th, 2007 at 2:01 am

    What good does building the bullpen do if you dont have anybody to shut down a team for the first 6 to 7 innings? Does anyone think that Wang and the kids can really do what about 15 different pitchers couldnt do in the past 5 years.

  270. The Bronx Stop December 4th, 2007 at 2:01 am

    I like Albaladejo already haha…lets just hope Eiland and Girardi can help him improve even more!!!

  271. The Bronx Stop December 4th, 2007 at 2:02 am

    Vertigo—
    It is Wang, Pettite, and the kids. Get it right.

  272. mel December 4th, 2007 at 2:02 am

    Whether it’s Santana or Hughes, we’ll cheer for them. We only wish the best for Hughes as a Yankee, not for him to fall on his face so that people can say, “I told you so”.

  273. Ray December 4th, 2007 at 2:03 am

    This isn’t an all or nothing thing. There are other top pitchers available. Kazmir, Big Ben, Haren, Bedard, etc. Baseball is a funny game. I don’t think leftys fair well in Boston on a regular basis, yet Santana might prove otherwise. (Santa na!) Just say No!

  274. Mr. GoodKat December 4th, 2007 at 2:03 am

    I still think ultimately the Yanks will end up with Santana, but that’s just me.

  275. CaptainsCorner December 4th, 2007 at 2:04 am

    This would be my last offers to the Twins.

    Kennedy/Jackson/Horne or Hughes/Melky/Jackson or Horne.

    I would rather give up anyone besides Hughes. Anyone else can be included if they can keep Hughes out of this. Even if it means including Horne and Jackson together.

  276. hughesian bias December 4th, 2007 at 2:05 am

    kasey –

    doesnt matter to me that the yankees don’t land santana because IMO, he’d have to strike out 17 guys per game for me to even begin to consider the deal was fair. right now the twins are asking for far too much, which is good since we get to keep hughes.

    and it was cashman himself that was “crowing about the cy youngs hughes was gonna rack up”.

    all i know is that i’ve been hearing about hughes for years now, waiting for his full season as a yankee starter. as a yankee fan, i’m much more attached to hughes than santana.

    hence the name.

  277. CB December 4th, 2007 at 2:05 am

    “but don’t expect a championship with a rotation of wang, pettitte and three rookies.”

    I completely agree. Yankee fans will have to severly curtail their expectations this year. Big time. It was a bit ridiculous how quickly people fell off the hughes band wagon after he got hurt.

    At the same time I think where a lot of people are coming from is how unproductive the approach has been over the past 7 years.

    That hasn’t worked either. I love hughes. I’ve followed him since he was drafted. But if you can get Santana for a fair package you have to.

    But Minnesota is trying to trade Santana as if he were haren – signed for 3 years at reasonable dollars. Which he’s not. I can understand where they are coming from but they aren’t going to get “fair” value for santana because of his contract/ free agency.

    So you are right that if they don’t get him then its disappointing and fans need to reset their expectations.

    I’m a big internal development person. But I’m willing to live with the inevitable lumps. Hughes problems this year didn’t bother me. I expected that.

    At the same time all is not lost. The offense will score 900-1000 runs. With that they can get into the playoffs.

    Also right off the bat the pitching will be much better because last year DeSalvo, Igawa, Clippard etc made like 20% of all their starts. With that they won 93 games and gave the socks a run.

    In the playoffs you never know. If they can’t land Satana I’d rather try something new and be willing to live with the inevitable bumps in the remote hopes you catch lightening in a bottle in 2008.

    In particualr, if Joba stays healthy I think the chances of him becoming an excellent pitcher much like verlander when he was a rookie aren’t inconsequential.

    Long term it will the team will be better off for taking this approach. The intermediate period my be rough.

    We’ll see. That’s why they play the games on the field.

  278. Vertigo December 4th, 2007 at 2:07 am

    I was leaving Pettitte out on purpose. He may fit the bill but he will only be around for next season. Getting Santana would at least give us someone to count on for the next 3 to 4 years.

  279. A-Point December 4th, 2007 at 2:07 am

    Come on kasey, ease up a bit. Seems you were too set on getting Santana.

    Here’s a thought that came to me about the timing of Pettittes decision. Remember it was what Thursday or Friday that Hughes was put on the trading block.

    Pettitte, it was reported (no I don’t have the link, but it was posted here), decided on Saturday that he was coming back. To me, I can imagine that Pettitte saw the move of Hughes to the trade table as a sign that the Yankees were in a big need of a good left hand pitcher.

    Remember, Andy is a Yankee, through and through. I bet he didn’t like seeing that the possible future of the Yankees pitching was going to be dealt. Remember, with him coming back it changes the need factor to lower for Santana.

    With Pettitte back the loss of Hughes might not be felt as much, but the need for Santana isn’t as high. I believe Andy was right at pulling the plug on his career. His father said so. Something changed that moved him that way. I bet Hughes situation gave him the nudge to come back.

  280. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") December 4th, 2007 at 2:07 am

    CC I’d never make those deals, I’m sorry but Jackson should not be going anywhere, from what I see the fans will respect this team more if it sticks w/ these high ceiling youngsters

  281. RSM December 4th, 2007 at 2:08 am

    Captains Corner: I was thinking the same thing. Tell Smith we’ll give him Melky, Jackson, and Horne, but then Hughes gets changed to Kennedy.

  282. hughesian bias December 4th, 2007 at 2:09 am

    i wouldnt trade jackson and melky in the same package.

  283. The Bronx Stop December 4th, 2007 at 2:10 am

    Vertigo–
    Hope you could tell I was just kidding…I think a full year with Pettite, Girardi and Eiland will do amazing things for the kids…Perhaps Andy thought the same thing and that is why the Yankees are not biting on Santana…could he have told the Yanks he wanted to be the veteran anchor/mentor of these three young pitchers????

  284. EY December 4th, 2007 at 2:10 am

    We should ask the Twins for both Santana and Liriano :p Let’s see how they like it when faced with an unreasonable demand.

  285. Vertigo December 4th, 2007 at 2:10 am

    I say offer Hughes, Melky and whatever other pitching prospects the Twins want other than IPK or Joba. We have more than enough depth to sustain the loss of multiple RH prospects. As long as we can keep Tabata and Ajax and IPK and Joba, we should be fine. I wouldnt care if we traded Sanchez, Betances, Cox, Melancon, and hell even brackman just as long as we kept Kennedy and Joba and the two OF’s.

  286. A-Point December 4th, 2007 at 2:12 am

    If Santana goes to the FA market the chances are good that he becomes a Yankee then.

  287. Vertigo December 4th, 2007 at 2:12 am

    Overwhelm them with quantity. You have to figure they will get someone decent out of those guys along with Hughes.

  288. kasey December 4th, 2007 at 2:12 am

    CB,

    we’re in agreement. i’m not trying to be down on hughes. i’m excited to watch him pitch. ditto chamberlain. less so kennedy because i think he’s going to get knocked around by major league hitting after about a month.

    i just think the odds that hughes AND chamberlain pan out are so slim. in fact, the odds that both fall short of expectations are far better than the odds that both live up to expectations. so, i hope people are prepared for the reality that maybe phil hughes ends up being a number 3 starter who doesn’t win 100 games in his career, let alone a cy young.

    i hope people are prepared for the inevitable injury to one of these kids, because the odds are it’s going to happen.

    i hope that people are prepared for all of the stuff that goes along with prospects. ask the mariners and felix hernandez. the kid has so much potential, but he may never end up being anything more than a .500 pitcher with a 4.2 ERA who occasionally makes a lineup look foolish.

    with santana, you know what you’re getting. with hughes, etc. the uncertainty is exciting, but it could also end up being incredibly disappointing. i mean, the odds that these kids all end up spending the entire year healthy are slim, let alone that they all pitch well.

  289. mel December 4th, 2007 at 2:13 am

    I say give them quality quantity and keep Joba, Hughes, and Jackson. We would still have a surplus of good pitching. There’s plenty of gems for the Twins to polish.

  290. kasey December 4th, 2007 at 2:13 am

    hughes/cabrera/horne, i’d probably pull the trigger. no to jackson and kennedy. just me, though. i’d like to see them win a world series again before jeter, mo, posada and andy retire.

  291. A-Point December 4th, 2007 at 2:15 am

    Think about the timing of Pettitte decision to return (Saturday) and when Hughes was offered up as the sacrifice to get a proven left hand SP.

    Pettitte probably didn’t like seeing that Hughes was likely a goner, and changed his mind about retiring. It was the next day.

    With Pettitte coming back the dire need for Santana went down.

  292. RSM December 4th, 2007 at 2:15 am

    Frankly, I’m happy. No doubt Santana makes us a better team now, but I like our long term future keeping our young pitchers.
    If these dealings have proved one thing yet again, it’s that nobody wants to help the Yankees. Teams will only trade with us if they can rape us, and good pitchers rarely reach free agency. Subsequently, we need our young starters.
    On the bright side, I really don’t think he’ll land in Boston. My gut instinct is that Boston was only in it to drive the price up for NY. If he stays in Minn, theres a good chance he’ll reach free agency and we can attempt to sign him. 2008 MAY be a let down, but 2009 and beyond is looking better.

  293. The Fallen Phoenix December 4th, 2007 at 2:16 am

    What I don’t understand is why “the kids” aren’t permitted a ghost’s chance of improving, or being an impact young pitcher like a Verlander, within the next two or three years.

    Whatever happened this off-season, I didn’t think the Yankees were going to have a drastically better chance to win the World Series next year *except* if they landed Santana.

    But I do think that, in two years, after Pettitte’s gone, at least one of Hughes/Chamberlain/Kennedy will have become an impact arm. It won’t be all of them. It *might* be none of them. But for every few prospects that *do* fizzle and amount to nothing, there *are* prospects who succeed, and some who succeed even bigger.

    I’m not saying Hughes, or Chamberlain, or Kennedy, or any of the players behind them are going to be that player. I’m certainly not banking on it. But I think it’s also premature to let it fade from the realm of possibility, as I feel some have been doing.

    Of course, I’m a cautious-optimist, so I’m admittedly biased through that lens. I certainly sympathize with keeping hopes down entirely and assuming all will fail so you can’t help but be pleasantly surprised, but I think that ultimately, it’s equally absurd as assuming all will succeed.

    …and for the record, I’m still ambivalent about a Hughes/[Not Kennedy, Horne&Jackson, Betances]/Melky for Santana swap. I really think that trade would benefit the Yankees, and I also think not making that trade could benefit the Yankees.

  294. Mike in SF December 4th, 2007 at 2:17 am

    Kasey,

    I appreciate your glimpse to the dark side. But c’mon guy.

    If Melky gets traded, Cano is going to sulk? He’s gunning for a start in the All Start game, around the corner from multi-million dollars, and has A-Rod as a permanent mentor/protection in the lineup. The Yankees also give him the ego boost that he was untouchable to get the best pitcher in the game.

    The poor fielding when slumping may continue forever. But he’s going to have a poor season if Melky is gone.

    If I’m Hughes, the only way my ego is dented is because Minnesota balked at grabbing me for the best pitcher in the game.

    Do you think when Joba was capturing the heart of the city- was Hughes sulking because he was no longer the #1 phenom? Or was Hughes motivated to do well and get the same respect?

    It’s pretty tough to take a glimpse at the psyche of a player (although we’ve been able to lately with A-Rod, Sheffield and Big Unit).

    I’m just saying it could go either way. If players are going to sulk, if there ego is fragile, well, they probably will get phased in playoff appearances also. Do we want these types of players?

    We’ve got one, and he gets paid a lot.

  295. Kwayry December 4th, 2007 at 2:17 am

    Still talking …

    UPDATE, 12-4-07 at 1:06am: Hank Steinbrenner expressed doubt that his team would get a Santana team done when talking to Kat O’Brien. However, she spoke to him at 11:45pm CST on Monday, and we had two updates since then. Anyway, discussions are not yet closed off.

  296. scott December 4th, 2007 at 2:18 am

    Boston may be looking at Santana’s medical records while discussing trades:
    http://www.boston.com/sports/b.....alkin.html

  297. The Fallen Phoenix December 4th, 2007 at 2:19 am

    Just to clarify, I’m not trying to swing the pendulum entirely in the other direction by saying we need to be optimistic that one of these young pitchers are going to pan out. I’m just trying to get to some balance of optimism/realism, since I think most posters have tended too far in the direction of realism[-pessimism].

  298. Ray December 4th, 2007 at 2:20 am

    As an old guy, LOL, I remember a few can’t miss rookies in New York who panned out.

    Albeit NYM
    Tom Seaver
    Nolan Ryan
    Jerry Koosman

    Not a bad trio! Reminds me of:
    Phil Hughes
    Joba Chambelain
    Ian Kennedy

    Just thought of 3 others from NYY! LOL!
    Mel Stottlemyre
    Al Downing
    Jim Bouton

    But hey kind of missed due to an old team and shody defense. Still 3 very good pitchers, but Bouton got hurt.

  299. CaptainsCorner December 4th, 2007 at 2:22 am

    The thing that is pathetic is Hughes should be the center piece of this deal and the Twins are treating him being included like he is just 1 of 4 players. Like he is a B prospect. As much as I wanted them to get Santana and Boston will probably get him now for there average deal(because they are obsessed with Ellsbury) it just doesn’t make sense from a Yankee point of view anymore.

  300. mel December 4th, 2007 at 2:24 am

    CaptainsCorner,

    No the really sad thing is that IPK is the deal breaker, not Phil.

  301. Vertigo December 4th, 2007 at 2:24 am

    You know who reminded me of Bouton? DeSalvo, the guy who had all those books in his locker or something like that. I was wonder if he might collaborate with Bouton on writing his legacy with Yankees called “Ball 4, 8, 12, etc.”

  302. CB December 4th, 2007 at 2:24 am

    Kasey,

    Bringing up King Felix is a great example. He’s probably the most talented arm in all of baseball (though Joba may be very close) – but your right. His production is inconsistent.

    That said – would you every trade Hernandez?

    Part of the argument for keeping Hughes/ Chamberlain/Kennedy/ Horne is because of inevitable failure.

    Let’s be optimistic and say 1 in every 4 good prospects goes on to have a productive career.

    There’s two ways of looking at this –

    1) that’s a very unlikely proposition – lets get rid of the kids.

    Or

    2) We need to stock pile an absurd number of talented arm so that we can eventually find a couple that stick long term.

    Whey keep hughes/ chamberlain/ kennedy/ horne – becasue only one may be good.

    Trick is you cant’ really say with certainty which one.

    Ultimately the best approach is mixing 1) and 2). Keep some trade some.

    The future of the yakees organization is going to be based on how good their assessment is of which prospects to keep and which to trade.

    They have stockpiled a tremendous number of arms. Far too many for them to ever use. That’s fine because most will fail.

    But they have to be able to pick out which to keep. They make a mistake and it could haunt them enormously.

    Conversely, I do believe that should any of these kids develop the pleasure of watching them win a Cy Young would be greater than Watching Santana come here and do that. That’s not the most important thing – but its something.

    Were people really that jazzed about clemens winning a Cy Young? ARod MVP.

    Compare that with watching Joba go from nothing to an ERA of 0.38.

    Putting together a team is all about trade offs. There’s no set or perfect way to do it.

    I think they’re going about it in a prudent, rational fashion. That’s far better than what its been like since the last world championship.

    They lost this year, but I did enjoy watching them play. Chamberlain/ Hughes/ Kennedy were amongst the best parts. Don’t know if it will last but I do think 2 of those 3 will make it because their talent makes them outliers.

    I don’t know which two however. And that does give me pause before trading them.

  303. Matt December 4th, 2007 at 2:25 am

    Here is a question for Yankee fans…

    Lets pretend that the BoSox offer Ellsbury, Lester and Lowrie together tomorrow…

    What is your counter offer?…Is there evn a counter offer, or do you just let him go to Boston?….

    At minimum it’d cost Hughes/Melky/Horne and Jackson…That is minimum for sure, but it might even cost more like Hughes/Melky/Kennedy or Cano/Kennedy…

    If that happens it is gonna be tough for the Yanks to keep Santana, honestly, that is a tough package to beat…

    Thoughts?

  304. Ray December 4th, 2007 at 2:27 am

    I Like that Vertigo!

    Bouton was maligned for being honest! Now he would be praised for bringing things to light!

    Bouton had a great upside until he hurt his arm & then became a knuckleball pitcher. But Yankee defense then was horrible after 1965.

  305. The Fallen Phoenix December 4th, 2007 at 2:29 am

    …CB, you echo my thoughts perfectly.

  306. CB December 4th, 2007 at 2:32 am

    Matt,

    I would make no counter offer. If boston wants to offer those three players along with Coco I assume I’d let them.

    I wouldn’t trade Hughes/ Kennedy for santana under the current circumstances of his contract. You’re trading for one year of santana and the opportunity to negotiate and pay him $150 million. That’s what twins and their fans don’t seem to understand. But so be it.

    Ultimately, IMO Phil Hughes is still, by far, the best prospect offerred to the twins. Smith may disagre.

    He is a top 3 type prospect. Ellsbury and Lester top 25 type.

    If the twins make that deal its because they are in love with Ellsbury.

    So be it. That’s not a deal the Yankees can easily match.

    If you guys can get that package I’d take it.

  307. Ray December 4th, 2007 at 2:33 am

    MATT

    First Boston is not NY! If they did offer that then let them do the deal. Boston would have a whole lot of money tied up in 3 SP & 2 would be great. What if 1 or 2 get hurt? Blisters or arm surgery. The money tied up would put Boston in more risk.

    I remember when Boston looked unbeatable yrs ago with Jim Lonborg but he broke his leg skiing & Tony Coigliaro got beaned. It took its toll on Boston to lose 2 superstars. It is a tough decision.

  308. Corey December 4th, 2007 at 2:33 am

    “Lets pretend that the BoSox offer Ellsbury, Lester and Lowrie together tomorrow…”

    Im pretty sure if that happen Red Sox Nation would be highly upset.

  309. Matt December 4th, 2007 at 2:35 am

    CB-

    I think it’s clear that the Twins are in love with Ellsbury AND Lester

  310. Jon December 4th, 2007 at 2:38 am

    Is anyone else worried by the rumor that MN asked for Lester’s medical records? I’d be glad to see him go, but if we lose out on Santana over Kennedy, I don’t see how that can look good for Hank come October. And then what? It sounds like Haren will be almost impossible to get away from Beane (asked for Maybin AND Miller from Detroit)…do we just concede the next 3 seasons?

  311. CB December 4th, 2007 at 2:38 am

    Matt,

    Another thing – I asked this before – who was the last player to ranked by baseball america as the top pitching prospect to be traded in any sort of deal before he completed his first year in the majors?

    In 2006 DiceK was BA’s top prospect. I don’t count him because of his age/ experience. Phil was the top pitcher.

    Try to find out when the last time that kind of prospect was traded and then think about the yankees offer.

  312. CB December 4th, 2007 at 2:41 am

    Jon,

    I am not worried. If they want Lester so be it. Their mistake. Nothing you can do about it.

    Minesotta has leaked so many rumors trying to get the yakees to up their offer its been ridiculous.

    My sense from today was that Boston is in this a fair degree just to push up the yankees price.

  313. Brian M December 4th, 2007 at 2:45 am

    Hmm, Clippard did kind of implode this season but there are plenty of people who seem to think that he can rebound and show more value this season.

    Did he have a spot i NY? No.

    Does he have more value than a reliever who was cut by the Pirates 9 months ago? Erm, yes.

    If we got a cheap vet arm who can hold over the bullpen until Melancon, Cox, Robertson, Ohlendorf and Sanchez are ready to take over, then fair enough. But we got a rookie who will probably be cut the first time one of the above group is ready to come to NY. Selling this low on a guy who has plenty of potential is not a good move, however far down the ladder he has fallen.

  314. bkight December 4th, 2007 at 2:52 am

    Why can’t the Yankees just wait the 6 months to see how good the kids really are? We saw a glimpse last year, when they helped to carry us to the playoffs. At worst they lose some value as trading chips, but we still have other resourses to get good pitchers, especially money.

  315. bkight December 4th, 2007 at 2:58 am

    CB

    The closest I can come up with is Kazmir for Zambrano(the bad one).

    The O’s made a horrible trade with Houston. Steve Finley, Curt Schilling and Pete Harnisch for Glen Davis.

    The Twins got Liriano, Nathan and Boof Bonser for AJ Piersinski.

    I don’t know if any of them were considered the top rated prospect, but I have a feeling the Yankees would regret giving up this much, even for Santana

  316. Chris December 4th, 2007 at 3:08 am

    “Selling this low on a guy who has plenty of potential is not a good move, however far down the ladder he has fallen.”

    Where exactly is Clippard’s potential? The guy throws 88mph.

    The reliever we got back is 25 and has a lot more talent than a junk balling righty with AA stuff.

  317. bkight December 4th, 2007 at 3:27 am

    CB

    If you are talking about Pavano and Tony Armas for Pedro than yes, that one worked out pretty good for Boston.

    I found this list of the top pitching prospects in the 90′s

    1995
    Scott Ruffcorn – White Sox
    Alan Benes – Cardinals
    Jimmy Haynes – Orioles
    Jim Pittsley – Royals
    LaTroy Hawkins – Twins

    1996
    Paul Wilson – Mets
    Billy Wagner – Astros
    Jason Schmidt – Braves
    Jimmy Haynes – Orioles
    Jeff Suppan – Red Sox

    1997
    Jaret Wright – Indians
    Kerry Wood – Cubs
    Jeff Suppan – Red Sox
    Carl Pavano – Red Sox
    Sidney Ponson – Orioles

    1998
    Carl Pavano – Expos
    Kerry Wood – Cubs
    Matt Clement – Padres
    Scott Elarton – Astros
    Kris Benson – Pirates

    1999
    Rick Ankiel – Cardinals
    Brad Penny – Diamondbacks
    Bruce Chen – Braves
    Matt Clement – Padres
    Ryan Anderson – Mariners

    2000
    Rick Ankiel – Cardinals
    Kip Wells – White Sox
    Brad Penny – Marlins
    Eric Gagne – Dodgers
    Matt Riley – Orioles

    Funny, the Yanks had 3 guys from the 97 list in 2006,

  318. Brian M December 4th, 2007 at 6:56 am

    Chris is Jonathan Albaladejo really any better than Britton, Veras or Beam? It looks like he throws strikes so he is at least an upgrade over Bruney, but still. Don’t bank on this guy making the opening day roster.

    Clippard has got plenty of potential. Remember when Jonathan Albaladejo was getting cut Clippard was a top 5 prospect in the Yanks system. And we all knew how hard he threw then. He will finish the season in the Nationals rotation. He will have a decent major league career and he will show a lot more worth than an average middle reliever.

    If you don’t believe me perhaps you should check out Nardi Contreras’s assessment of him, or ask Chad Jennings who watched him pitch at AAA this yr.

  319. Mitchell's Eleven December 4th, 2007 at 7:31 am

    “The National Clipper” just doesn’t have the same ring to it.

    It was fun while it lasted. Hope Clippard becomes something in the NL.

  320. Mitchell's Eleven December 4th, 2007 at 7:36 am

    kasey @ 1:59: trade rumors happen. it’s part of baseball. i’d be flattered if it was my name being brought up in trade talks for Johan Santana (particularly since i’m not a baseball player *snare*).

    Can we now insert Hughes and Melky back into their rightful places as Yankees for next year?

  321. saucy December 4th, 2007 at 9:48 am

    trade looks good. and now another NL team to root for. Maybe we can see T-Clip dominate the Mets a few times a year now.

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