Yankees will not change their offer
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- December
- 4
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Just spoke to a Yankees Exec Who Can Be Trusted and learned this:
The Y.E.W.C.B.T said that Brian Cashman has made his final offer and will not toss in Ian Kennedy, Alan Horne or Austin Jackson. That would seem to favor the Red Sox but the Dodgers and Angels are now getting in the mix with the Yankees on the outskirts.
This hillbilly nightmare The Winter Meetings end on Thursday morning, so there is little chance that Santana will be officially traded by then given that a contract extension would have to be negotiated.
The Yankees, for all of the deadline talk, remain open to the Twins coming back to them. But the Twins seem to love Jon Lester and aren’t crazy about Melky Cabrera.
Yankees fans in general put too much value on Cabrera. He’s a nice player but he has a career OPS of .728. Outside of his arm, he’s at best an average center fielder. I think he’s fine with the Yankees hitting eighth or ninth. But it’s not like he’s a budding star.
These GMs get paid to evaluate talent. If Minnesota likes Boston’s package, that is their choice.
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on Tuesday, December 4th, 2007 at 2:31 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
The Melk-Man delivers!!!
“The YEWCBT ” LOL
Classic
The Twins are dumb if they make this trade without Ellsbury or Bucholtz. This is highway robbery. It’s funny that the Yankees have to give up the farm but not the Red Sox.
The Dodgers minor league talent could certainly trump what Boston has to offer. I think the Angels are saving their chips for Cabrera.
plain and simple pete
cabrera > coco
his offense is improving, he’s cheaper and has a better arm
My god.
It is COLD outside, and there is so much snow on my car I can’t lift the trunk open to get the scraper to wipe the snow off.
(How is everyone? What news have I missed in the four hours I was at class?)
Melky may not be a superstar, but Coco Crisp isn’t exactly Willie Mays, either. I am still amazed that the Twins would go for the Red Sox Pupu Platter.
I would be perfectly content to not get Santana. Again, the fall-back plan is having the three kids – not a bleak picture at all.
John Lester Sucks !! .. Just because he’s a lefty . what a shame !
GO DODGERS!
Lester is underrated because of the Cancer thing.
I wonder if Smith is willing to trade Johan to Boston for this package because he knows the love letter Gammons is going to write and talk about on ESPN in regards to the gritty gutty future hall of famers the Red Sox begrudgingly gave up in this deal as constituted.
Gammons will write what a bitter pill it was for the Red Sox to swallow to give up their amazing best CF in baseball in Crisp and how Lester is Andy Pettite and how the other guys are generally spoken of as future hall of famers.
He’ll wax poetic about how Boston doesn’t want to pay Johan the money, but the Yankees have set the market in baseball with their reckless spending and those poor geniuses in Boston are just doing what it takes to keep up.
Meanwhile Gammons will be laughing himself silly that the Sox just got the best pitcher in baseball for this lot.
If Sox get Santana, their whole rotation is not home grown (Santana, Beckett, Matsuzaka, Schilling, Wakefield). The Yankees will have a fully home grown rotation, (Wang, Pettitte, Chamberlain, Hughes, Kennedy, unless it’s Mussina instead of Kennedy). I’d be very proud of that, and it would be really fun to follow them. I’m sick of hired guns. We’ve been burnt soo many times on other teams pitchers.
cabrera is def better than crisp, def has more upside.
Al Horne better pan out…
Screw the Sux, the Twins and all the Yankee Haters….we will be fine in 2008….WORLD SERIES CHAMPS…with or without Santana….The lineup will me MASHING to the tune of 1000 plus runs and the rotation is sweet….Cash will work on the bullpen and all will be well in Yankee Land..
.
#27 in 2008…………GO YANKEES !
.
Rebecca,
You missed many people jumping off the ledge. Many posters firing Cashman. Many posters declaring undying love for Cashman. And Pete making a few jokes.
Wow im geting tired of all the santana talk lets keep the kids and see what happens!!
for the twins if they make this trade…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nl5gBJGnaXs
Good Stuff, G. Love.
And so true.
I wish the Sox and Twins would just finalize this thing already. We’ve already figured out it’s going to happen eventually. At least then we can move on to something fresh, like how we’re going to improve our bullpen.
Agreed… How can you give up one of the best pitchers in the league and not get at least one of the other team’s two best prospects in return?
I agree Melky is overvalued by Yankees fans but Hughes has got to be more valuable than Lester and Melky is at worst comparable to Crisp based on salary comparison alone.
Pete -
Somethings tells me you’re not exactly enchanted with this year’s venue.
This thing is going to drag on, I guess. I hope someone else gets Haren, in the meantime.
I do agree that we as Yankee fans tend to value Melky more than he really should be. But he’s not chopped liver, either.
“If Minnesota likes Boston’s package”?
Ewwww……
This Hillbilly Nightmare… LOL!
Peter: Please pass this message to Alan Horne, Austin Jackson, and Ian Kennedy.
“Please be worth it. Work hard. Be amazing.”
Thanks
Rebecca – I agree that his Cancer changed alot of peoples opinions of the guy, but that’s not why I underrate him. His 3.33 career MILB ERA and the fact that he gives up more fly balls than ground outs is why I underrate him.
Pete, I think you are selling Melky short. I have watched every single Yankees game and there were countless times when Melky ran down a ball, made a great catch or threw a guy out by a mile. Now, he will not be challenging A-ATM for hitting, but I think he’s gotten some key hits here and there.
I am so tired of us buying up the world. Let’s try and win from within. If that doesn’t work, then at least they can say that they tried.
P.S. My money says Santana vetoes the trade to Boston. I really think that he wants to wear the Yankee pinstripes.
Phil:
DANG!
I’ve got three finals and two papers to finish up, if anyone should be jumping off a ledge…but I’m nowhere near one!
Actually, given the height of my window relative to the roof below me, and the coating of snow, I could probably jump with very little harm to myself.
Just very wet pants.
(and I’m kind of in the ‘I am perfectly content without Santana camp, so I’m quite giddy right now).
I’d be so happy if the Dodgers swoop in and snatches Santana away from Boston. I agree that Angels are going after Miggy.
And yes I agree this is a steal if Twins give up Santana without getting Ellsbury and/or Bucholz.
Melky > Breakfast cereal
Hughes > Lester
The won’t take it?
!??!?!?
If that actually happens, Smith is just one big Boston homeboy and the entire team laid down for Boston even before the season started.
Fans may overrated Melky, but he’s 22 years old, and for June, July and August, he looked like a future all-star.
Melky may not be a budding superstar but I do think that he is a great player. He is young and still making those rookie mistakes but that can change anytime soon. He will start getting better jumps on balls and will stop swinging at stupid pitches. All young players grow out of that. Plus that arm of his really changes how teams play against us. They run all over Damon because he has absolutely no arm but when you have Melky playing centerfield, teams play much more conservative. That being said, I really think that melky is the future of center field for the yanks
So does that mean Hughes can still be traded?
Ham:
A) Are you saying you think the Sox’s offer is better? Who would you want? Hughes/Melky or Lester/Crisp? You’re a beat writer but you offer analysis. I want your opinion.
B) Yes, GMs get paid to evaluate talent, not to be dumb. Melky is cost-controlled and by far a better value than Crisp. There’s no question that the Twins turned down their best offer. That’s their fault and we are all stupider for observing it.
Petitte says he wants to play for Yanks for years to come…
Rebecca, since you left, we came to the consensus that Twins FO is crazy, that a select Twins fan on this board needs to not be on this board anymore, that Jeter worked out on the track at the University of Tampa this morning (which makes sense, since he’s a resident and all), that Lowrie is not a blue chip, that Crisp is replacement level, and that we just might not be the favorites going into the regular season this year.
So basically, you’ve missed nothing, but we’ve all been refreshingrefreshingrefreshing anyway.
I don’t think its a question of overvaluing Cabrera Pete.
Its wondering why the Twins would make a deal for a similar player (Crisp) making 10 times the salary.
As far as not including Kennedy, Jackson or Horne in the deal, I can’t blame the Yankees on that.
Geez, Hughes is tough enough to give up. Adding the others to the mix is too much.
If he goes to Boston, so be it. They still have to finish a deal AND negotiate a contract with Santana.
As we have seen with Bill Smith, no deal is final. He’s probably still shopping as we speak.
If I was Cashman, I would do what he is doing. Move on and if they come back, see what they say.
Engaging a guy (Smith) who has shown no ability to close a deal is a waste of time.
If Melky continues to work hard with A-Rod, there’s no reason not to believe he can be a serviceable OF. However, his range is inferior to Crisp. Yet his arm is better.
I can’t see why the Twins prefer Crisp and his salary to Melky and his salary.
Maybe the Twins gave up on Ellsbury because he hired Boras as his agent.
Hmmm… maybe Theo suggested that hire?
the more Pete complains about that hotel, the more i want to see it
Melky is just holding the position for Austin Jackson.
Pete,
I will be in Nashville on Saturday on business.
If you get a chance, two restaurants you have to try while you are there…..Sunset Grill and Jimmy Kelly’s. Both good places and it will take your mind away from navigating around the hotel.
You know, this whole situation just may really pump up the 3 kids a great deal. Phil Hughes already was quoted as saying he thought it would be great for the 3 of them to be working together in the ML. I think they’ll be great for each other, as well. A lot to be said for internal competition.
I saw Lester pitch twice, last September, he was average at best. That’s why Tito went with the struggling Dice-K as the number #3 pitcher.
Sj -
If AJ gets it done, I include him with phil and melky. You don’t agree?
Then again, the Dodgers have been feign to give out big, long-term contracts to pitchers ever since the Kevin Brown deal blew up in their face…So I don’t think they’d seriously get involved in trade talks for Santana knowing what sort of contract they’d have to give him.
“the more Pete complains about that hotel, the more i want to see it”
I’ve been there. No you don’t.
LOL
And therein lies the rub, we are just playing with the red sox who are trying but won’t steal santana. we want to keep our kids and get the NL involved, that’s it.
Go with the Homegrowns:
Rotation:
Wang
Pettitte
Hughes
Kennedy
Chamberlain
Bullpen:
Rivera
Sanchez
Melancon
Marquez
Whelan
Robertson
Cox
Position players:
Jeter
Cano
Jackson
Melky
Tabata
S. Duncan
melky can be as good as anybody. hes not holding anything for anybody. before this year joba was a virtual no name, hughes was the dominant prospect but when it came to trading either of the two, JOBA was the one who was nottobetrade. theres no reason why melky cannont be the same
You can’t give up your CF and your CF of the future. That would be an even higher cost to the deal in an economic sense, because you would have to go out and sign a FA CF.
I don’t think it’s a problem he’s going to Boston. It’s a problem he’s going to Boston for a bucket of crap.
exactly
Coco Crisp is a product of his name. He’s nothing special as a player but that name is so cute that he gets mentions on ESPN often. He’s nothing much at the plate and an average fielder with a below average arm.
If the Dodgers want in they can offer a much better deal IMO. They have to think about getting Torre some help in that rotation and in that division Santana alone will put at the top of the NL West.
Do not go to that hotel…it is awful. Better to go to the website and look at the Country Christmas pictures…and wait until next year when the meetings are being held in Vegas.
and Posada.
good. keep the kids and stay the course.
First off — “this hillbilly nightmare”?? Real mature.
Anyway, it’s cool if the Twins don’t like Melky — he’s not that great — but they’re accepting Coco Crisp who, because of age and money, is WORSE. They’re also accepting Lester when Hughes is better. The problem is the third and fourth players; the Sox are giving up something, but the Yankees don’t want to. I don’t know if Lowrie is as good as Horne, but the Yankees basically feel a Hughes-for-Santana deal is enough and the Twins want to cover themselves with one more player, which is reasonable. The Yankees should hang onto Hughes and Jackson at all costs, but moving Kennedy and Horne, even in the same deal, is fine. When this falls through, they should look out there to see who Kennedy/Horne/Melky will get them.
Go with the Homegrowns:
Rotation:
Wang
Pettitte
Hughes
Kennedy
Chamberlain
Bullpen:
Rivera
Sanchez
Horne
Melancon
Marquez
Whelan
Robertson
Cox
Position players:
Jeter
Posada
Cano
Jackson
Melky
Tabata
S. Duncan
I agree with everything Peter said, but the real issue here is this: If the Red Sox get Santana they will have a stranglehold on the AL East for the next five years. This isn’t just a short term issue, it’s a long term one.
Do we want Jeter to never get “one for the thumb”? Santana/Beckett/Buccholz/Dice K are NASTY and all YOUNG (with Santana being the old man at 29).
I’m not saying I would throw in Horne, but is Alan Horne worth holding on to if it means we aren’t in the East chase?
It’s something that needs to be figured out.
Report: Angels join hunt for Santana
According to the Providence Journal, the Angels have made a late bid for Johan Santana, with Jered Weaver likely involved as bait.
The Red Sox and Twins have yet to resume talking today, though WFAN’s Sweeney Murti thinks a deal remains close. ESPN’s Peter Gammons indicated that the Twins still aren’t certain whether they like the Jacoby Ellsbury or Jon Lester/Coco Crisp package better. Meanwhile, the Yankees have no intention of changing their current offer, a team executive told the Journal News. Dec. 4 – 2:43 pm et
Source: Providence Journal
“I can’t see why the Twins prefer Crisp and his salary to Melky and his salary.”
Well, they just lost an incredible defensive CFer. They potentially replaced his bat in RF, and they want to replace his D in CF. Melky don’t do it. Crisp does. I guess that’s worth $5MM to them…
If they get Ellsbury, he does as well, and will probably be a good leadoff guy. But to get THAT and a solid prospect and a nobody? Is CF defense REALLY worth passing on Phil Hughes? If they’re psyched on Lester…Ok. They’re crazy, though. He’s a #5 right now, and will MAYBE be a #3. At least that’s what I read. They’re sending off their ace, trading their best young arm and replacing them with a #3? At best?
Ok. The Yanks’ package is better. Everyone knows it. Maybe the Twins just feel the fit with the Sox is better, with the better defensive CFs and the middle infield depth.
Go with the Homegrowns:
Rotation:
Wang
Pettitte
Hughes
Kennedy
Chamberlain
Bullpen:
Rivera
Sanchez
Horne
Melancon
Marquez
Ohlendorf
Whelan
Robertson
Cox
Position players:
Jeter
Posada
Cano
Jackson
Melky
Tabata
S. Duncan
Arte Moreno come on down !
It wouldn’t be any surprise if the Twins come back to the Yankees. The Twins will probably try to scare the Yankees and give Cashman an ultimatum. Smith will say, “you had better knock me down with an offer or I’m sending him to Boston.”
The Opryland Hotel isn’t that good, the Radisson in Nashville is much better, although the bathrooms are tiny. The showers are basically on top of the commodes!
The Dodgers can easily put together a package that blow Boston’s (and ours) out the window. Let’s hope for that. Johan would be a good fit in L.A. and he can hang out with our old friend Joe.
C’mon Bill Smith, you know you really don’t want Crisp/Lester.
And I agree with SJ, et al. Ignoring the financial implications of Crisp v. Melky is unfathomable. I mean the Twins have Santana on the market because they can’t afford him. Did this somehow not become relevant?
on no mike r!!
You can’t find any fa cf’s
I actually agree that if Austin Jackson plus Hughes and Melky got the deal done, you grit your teeth and do it.
Austin Jackson was barely on our radar and still may not turn out to be what we all are hoping.
I just don’t add anymore of the top pitching prospects in the organization.
Them asking for Kennedy too is ludicrous. It’s above and beyond what the Red Sox are currently offering.
We’ll find another CF. We always do. Who honestly thought that Melky was going to be our CF of the future when he came up?
OF’ers we’ll find. Pitching however, is a much different animal.
RB15:
I suspected something similar.
What’s this I saw last thread about Haren to AZ for Connor Jackson?
As great as it would have been to get Johan, losing the Phranchise was dragging me down. It’ll be fun watching the kids show their stuff, I think we’ll be just fine.
No Boston Dave for the reasons Mike has mentioned.
You can’t give up your starting CF AND your CF of the future in one deal.
That’s not the way to go.
Now, before somebody says, “Go get Aaron Rowand or Andruw Jones”, think for a minute.
The Yankees should make that deal, give Santana 150 million, then spend another 50+ million on a CF?
Can’t do that. Doesn’t make any sense.
With the way Austin Jackson is coming, you don’t trade him unless you get Santana AND Morneau in the deal.
If the Twins want to trade both guys, then you give them the run of the farm system.
However, just for Santana? No way.
Something tells me that the Angels will now play the part that Boston was playing until now. Wait until Smith starts upping the demands when Theo thinks they have a deal. Oh you’re going to give us Lester and Ellsbury? Now we want Bchholz and Ellsbury…And the story repeats.
Rumors of the Angels in the mix now. Jared Weaver being the A+ player. If its true I’d be worried if I was Boston since Weaver is heck of a lot better than Lester. Brandon Wood’s name was thrown around too.
http://www.beloblog.com/ProJo_.....els_j.html
The Dodgers under McCourt are such small timers. With all the young talent (and resources) they have, what a chance to swoop in and bag Santana. But I’d be surprised if they make anything more than a token effort.
Girardi: I know most of us here wanted Santana. No knock on Melky (waves) or Philly Franchise (waves). But he is an ace. And of course no knock to you Wanger (waves). (Aside: Can someone translate that to him? Oh, he speaks English, Great.) Anyway it was not to be and that’s that. So, let’s be realistic. (Girardi rubs his hands together) He throws baseballs, right? Not laserbeams (the team murmurs) or deathrays (more murmurs). He can be hit, ya hear me? HE CAN BE HIT! (shouts of Yeah, Right, Damn right) Maybe not often, maybe not hard, but damnit, he can be hit. (Great applause).
So, suck it up, men. Train hard. A tough campaign awaits… (Girardi stops abruptly, squints toward the back of the room, toward Posada) What’s this? You… Posada… are you… CRYING? Are you crying? THERE’S NO CRYING IN BASEBALL…
JERED WEAVER?????? LOL
Other teams keep offering Twins garbage and only Yankees have to give up the talent.
Melky’s definately not a star but he’s better than Crisp.
Thank you G Love…
Question is whether the twins even accept that or want Kennedy too… Ugh
If the Dodgers and Angels are entering the mix, then this deal is far from done and the drama is not anywhere near over. For the Yankees, I think it’s over.
But it’s nice to see that he may not absolutely end up in Boston.
HOLDING UP A DEAL FOR HORNE??????? ARE YOU NUTS YANKEES GET IT DONE! WE ARE WIN NOW TIME! BY THE TIME THESE PROSPECTS ARE READY, RIVER AND POSADA WILL BE FINISHED!!
SJ -
So Damon is unacceptable in CF for 1 yr if it means santana
“I’m not saying I would throw in Horne, but is Alan Horne worth holding on to if it means we aren’t in the East chase?”
Again…the point is that Hughes is so much better than Lester that it doesn’t make sense for the Yanks to have to throw in a guy like Horne to compare with Lowrie.
If the Twins want a #3, a CFer and someone of value…fine, take Kennedy, Melky and Horne. But if you want a guy who can be a #1, you’re not getting anything of value beyond Melky.
You don’t see the Sox offering Buchholz, Crisp and Lowrie, do you?
I MEAN WE ARE A WIN NOW TEAM!!!
It’s not a matter of FA CF being hard to find. It’s a matter of cost. Now intead of adding $25 M to payroll to land Santana you have to add $40 or $45 M. I know these are the Yankees, but they have to show some sense of discretion.
Jered Weaver is not garbage.
Guys Lester is a good major league pitcher that is it.. Look at his #’s his whip is not that good. he gives up a ton of baserunners..
The guy who commented this guarantees the sux win for yrs. what are you smoking? It does not even guarantee they win this yr..
You cannot predict sports when are you going to figure that out?
The Yanks will be fine… There big 3 are not your normal prospects, well that is the case for 2 of them.. Hughes and Joba are the best prospects the Yanks have had in many many many yrs. Better then Pettitte and others……
Worry about what the ynkees do not the sux.
Maddog mentioned Austin Jackson is 3 yrs away… the thing that amazes me is that these guys talk about crp they have no idea on….
Hank Steinbrenner is a wuss. Big tuff talk, now he says “probably” wont re-engage.
I think our young pitchers are overrated. Make the deal you idiot.
Lou GTHO w/ that, we made the best offer, Bill Smith was making us bid against ourselves, we scouted our own system, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH !!!!!!
Apparently, we turned down Hughes, Melky, Horne, and Marquez according to Jayson Stark. That might be one that the Yankees have to suck up and do if it means stopping the Red Sox.
Pete,
Love the blog, but as a native Nashvillian (who now lives in Boston (yech) take it easy on my hometown. Opryland may be a hillbilly nightmare, but the rest of the city is quite great.
Uh, Jered Weaver is talent, his brother is the one that blows.
It doesn’t matter if the Angels work out a deal with the Twins. Does Johan want to go to Anaheim? Hmmm……
Pete, whatup. Rosenthal reported the deal was done. But you are saying no deal yet? If that is the case, I include Horne (not Ajax) as there is a real question whether he’ll ever have the command to succeed in the ML. I would not like it, but I’d do it. Because Cash says he won’t do it, go Southern California!!
If the Santana, Buchholz, and Ellsbury are in Red Sox uniforms come Opening Day 2008, Santa can skip my house this Christmas.
When they write about this phase of baseball history, and they will, I humbly suggest the following title: The Santanic Versus.
As for those dunderheads from the frozen lakes & their inbred 3rd City slicker cousins: let them eat chowdah.
Keep the Kids
Hold the line.
This is Kismet. Hughes’ destiny is to be a Yankee great.
Why don’t you compare Bernie Williams’ #’s and age through the first year of his career with Melky Cabrera’s… INTERESTING
The Angels are mentioned in every big FA/trade possibility and they NEVER pull the trigger (other than Vlad and that was 4 years ago….).
Weaver is better than Lester
Bedard to the Dodgers for Kemp/Broxton??? Rumor on ESPN Blog.
If Johan goes to Angels…they will be favorite with Tori Hunter too. I would love to see the Angels get Santana, anything to avoid us giving up players, and santana going to boston.
Why the heck do we have to one-up the Red Sox in order to land Santana. We can’t offer a package with equal value because it’s unacceptable. They want Lester, Crisp, Lowrie and Masterson from the BoSox. So we have to give them:
Hughes – Better than Lester
Melky – Similar to Crisp, but MUCH cheaper
Jackson – Higher ceiling than Lowrie
Horne – Better tha Masterson
That is a much better package than the Bosox are rumored to be giving up. Why Can’t we give them:
Kennedy – Similar to Lester
Melky
Gonzalez – Similar to Lowrie
Marquez – Similar to Masterson
It was like this with the Gagne deal as well. Teams want more from the Yanks than they do from other teams. Even if that means making Boston early favorites to repeat.
Just like Cashman said he wouldn’t negotiate with A-Rod if he filed for free agency. Yeah right.
Alan Horne better be the next Sandy Koufax if that is what is keeping this deal from getting done.
http://www.azcentral.com/membe.....coro/11880
Haren deal to AZ nowhere near done…
Hey, guys:
• The Orioles and Dodgers may be close on a deal that will send left-hander Erik Bedard to Los Angeles, a baseball source said. The O’s are in need of a center fielder and a closer who can play at the major league level, and the Dogders seem willing to part with outfielder Matt Kemp and reliever Jonathan Broxton, who could come in a close in lieu of Chris Ray, out for the year after Tommy John surgery. “They want Bedard bad,” said the source.
Do you think the Yankees then might try to involve the Dodgers?
Or are they zomg we cannot play with Yankees West
Mike R
So Damon is unacceptable in CF for 1 yr if it means
santana? Damon doesn’t cost an extra dime for 2 yrs.
Cashman said he would not pursue A-Rod. Very different.
Rebecca–Optimist Prime
December 4th, 2007 at 2:35 pm
Lester is underrated because of the Cancer thing.
Lester is overrated because of the cancer thing. He has not regained any of the form that made him a #22 prospect and has not shown he can maintain himself through a MLB lineup. If the sox do a 6-1 trade and still keep Buccholz and Ellsbury they made out like bandits.
SJ44
December 4th, 2007 at 2:42 pm
As we have seen with Bill Smith, no deal is final. He’s probably still shopping as we speak.
If I was Cashman, I would do what he is doing. Move on and if they come back, see what they say.
Engaging a guy (Smith) who has shown no ability to close a deal is a waste of time.
__________________________________________________
I read some execs and scout reports after theGarza/Young trade and especially after switching Rincon for Morlon, all but one gave the big edge to Tampa just on talent. The major reason was Young’s refusal to be more patient and the base running mistakes. Gardenhire’s going to love that.
Looks like Smith is 0-2 in deals.
Gary, different situation there, here we are talking about depth in the system and heil ceiling prospects for a SP who is going to ge paid through the nose & an owner in Bill Smith who’s clearly high on something
w/ Alex it was money and he didn’t cost us prospects
Dave,
Its not just Damon for one year in CF if you trade Cabrera and Jackson.
Its Damon for the foreseeable future in CF.
The reason why the Yankees could trade guys like Hughes and Cabrera in the same deal was because they had people to fill those roles.
If you trade those guys AND the people to fill their roles, it doesn’t make much sense to me.
If the Angels are involved, it means discussions with the Marlins on Miguel Cabrera have hit the skids.
All this tells me is that its easy to TALK trades. Its a helluva harder to DO them.
It took Bill Smith a month to do the Garza-Young trade. It wouldn’t shock me if this trade isn’t exactly “done” yet.
The guy seems incapable of being able to make deals.
I’m still perturbed at Bill Smith’s evaluation of talent… but that’s beyond my control and like Cash – the only thing I can do is walk away from this whole circus. Smith is a tool and if he can sell that trade to his fans and owner, then I hope they enjoy whatever weed smoke Boston is blowing in their faces.
Boston Dave – If we had a young athletic LF Damon could be passable, but having “Short arm” Damon in CF and “Bad knees” Matsui in LF could represent a defensive disaster.
Smith is definitely capable of closing a deal quickly, as shown with Matt Garza to Tampa trade…
He’s just taking his time, making sure he gets the best offer possible. It’s Santana, so it’s understandable.
Lesters WHIP is 1.57 career in the big leagues…that is not good…
he has pitched 144 innings and is 23 but he is not a big K guy.
Hughes WHIP in 72 innings is 1.28, yes it is a small sample.. the guy is 21 yrs old……..He did this with a injury……..
Hughes is much better prospect then Lester it is not even close……
Of course he would go to the Angels!! Hunter is there and his agent said yesterday that he wasn’t limiting the Twins to just Boston or NY.
rodg…i think the O’s could do better than that.
Alan Horne is a very good pitcher who had a breakout year.
The bottom line is this: If the Twins wanted Hughes they were not going to get him, melky and another one of the highly regarded prospects. Basically they wanted the same deal we were offering with Hughes substiuted for Kennedy. That is a steep price to pay for the privelage of paying $150 million. I think the FO has done a great job here of setting limits.
(high ceiling)
If they like Lester more than Hughes, they’re nuts. Oh well, lets kee the kids andhope for the best I guess.
Stuart, the thing that amazes me about Mand the MD is that even when the Santana trade is clearly brewing, they don’t do even the slightest homework to be sure they know who are the top prospects, the next tier, etc. I — as many of us– do this all year round. You would think people who make their living talking sports would do the “work” necessary to make their opinions based on facts. Well, I guess that never stopped them, did it? Pompous, lazy asses.
Twins think Lester than is better than Hughes.
“A) Are you saying you think the Sox’s offer is better? Who would you want? Hughes/Melky or Lester/Crisp?”
obviously Hughes/Melky. but that’s not all:
you’re missing Lowrie/Masterson v. crap. that’s why the Red Sox deal is more enticing.
and, no, Horne alone won’t do it…25 year-old AA pitchers aren’t that enticing. and the Yankees weren’t offering him anyway.
but Crisp won’t stay with the Twins…he’ll be moved.
Mike R. — You are right on the money with that (though Lowrie does have an edge on Gonzalez). Bill Smith will be run out of town if he does that BOsox deal. Have the Twins really scouted Lester and Crisp? Seems hard to believe. They were trying to run Crisp out of BOston much of last summer. Just amazining.
Johan Santana Rumors: Tuesday
UPDATE, 12-4-07 at 2:12pm: Phil Miller heard some speculation that the Twins could throw in another player on their side to make this thing work.
UPDATE, 12-4-07 at 2:04pm: According to Sean McAdam, the Twins will also meet with the Angels this afternoon to discuss Santana. The Twins would want Jered Weaver and Brandon Wood for starters. McAdam says the Red Sox and Twins haven’t spoken since this morning. Meanwhile Joe Christensen says there’s lobby buzz about the Red Sox/Twins deal becoming a 5-for-1.
FROM MLBTR
Bill smith is a great GM!! He really keeps his fan base informed!
Reality Check,
You are so right about m and md, it is mind boggling
TwinsfaninNY
December 4th, 2007 at 3:11 pm
“A) Are you saying you think the Sox’s offer is better? Who would you want? Hughes/Melky or Lester/Crisp?â€
obviously Hughes/Melky. but that’s not all:
you’re missing Lowrie/Masterson v. crap. that’s why the Red Sox deal is more enticing.
and, no, Horne alone won’t do it…25 year-old AA pitchers aren’t that enticing. and the Yankees weren’t offering him anyway.
but Crisp won’t stay with the Twins…he’ll be moved.
———
I guess we’re thinking on different terms…
Hughes has a much higher ceiling that Lester and in my eyes, it’s a quality package versus a quantity package. If Crisp is going to be moved right away, then doesn’t that qualify as crap too? And for me, I’d rather get a potential #1 or #2 and one crap prospect than a #4 and crap CF and a mid level Boston prospect or 2.
Mike R
Then sign cameron or a defensive cf. Everyone assumes rowand or jones are the only other options. I think Damon is fine for 1 yr if it means santana.
Pete, get in a cab and go to the Pancake Pantry. Ask for Miss Mary. Best breakfast you’ll ever eat, and nicest waitress you’ll ever have.
Let’s make this deal happen!
Mecka-lecka-hi, mecka-hiney-ho!
http://i11.photobucket.com/alb.....Giambi.jpg
I wonder how cheap Dontrelle Willis would be?
no one can rationally explain to me why the Twins want a #3 starter over a future ace. Since when has a team traded their superstar in any sport and not asked for a player who is thought to have star potential? WHOOPPEE! Lester is a #3 starter that loads the bases!
this guy is FREAKING OUT on M&MD
I think the Twins ‘interest’ in Lester is utterly and completely fabricated.
If the Twins want a Lefty, send Igawa.
Yanklifer, it is like a guy who makes his living with his body letting it go to pot. Call it the Cecil Fielder/Mo Vaughn syndrome.
i CAN NOT STAND Fransessa … FAT %$#$$@@!!!
He LOVES to hear himself talk!
o man .. can we include Fransessa in AN Ytrade we make .. PLEASE!!
Bottom Line – I also give the edge to Lowrie in that comparison.
WOuldn’t it be irony if the Angels swooped it and swiped Santana from both NY and Bahston. Talk about an upgraded westcoast team…
3:12 p.m., from Buster Olney
• The Yankees and Twins haven’t talked at all so far Tuesday about Johan Santana, amid increasing indications Santana is going to be dealt to Boston. The Twins are also talking to the Angels, however.
Master Wangkee
December 4th, 2007 at 3:16 pm
I think the Twins ‘interest’ in Lester is utterly and completely fabricated.
———–
um… how exactly do you know this?
The fact that Melky Cabrera is possibly the player that prevents this deal from happening, makes me love the guy even more…anyone else with me?
I need some break time after that crazy fan on M&MD , he gave me a headache ..later guys
You’d have to include about 10 gallons of diet coke with him.
Let’s move on… if the Twinkees come back so be it.
I do hope we’re looking down I95 to Baltimore at Bedard. Hard to trade w/in the division, but he’s a 28yr old lefty w some real nasty stuff (and less mileage on his arm than Johan too).
What would it take? IPK, Melky, Igawa and a B prospect?
ff
Boston Dave – Cameron would be a short term solution. That’s not what the Yankees need if they deal both CF options. They would need a long term solution, and any long term solution would add to the acquisition cost of Santana (Be it prospects in a trade or cash for a FA).
Twins might pit Angels vs. Dodgers in…
Round 2 of the Santana Sweepstakes
Dan…the Marlins are talking about a trade that would send Miguel Cabrera and Dontrell Willis to the Tigers for Cameron Maybin and Andrew Miller along with a few others. Thats a blockbuster. The Yankees would need i’m sure a package of Kennedy/Tabata/Horne.
I think the Twins ‘interest’ in Lester is utterly and completely fabricated.
Fransessa loves THREE Things .. and Three things ONLY.
1)- EATING
2)- Talking
3)- Eating AND Talking at the same time (preferably when someone esle is talking)
Hey Pete Abe the Red Sox brown tongue; are you sure it’s not you laughing hysterically that your red sox will get handed Santana for a sac potatoes
I still Like Kazmir & I think he could be gotten.
Scott Kazmir
Split ERA W L Sv Svo Ratio G GS GF CG Sho IP H R ER K BB K/9 BB/9 K/BB IBB HR HB SH WP BK Avg. A
vs. Ana 4.85 1 1 0 0 1.15 2 2 0 0 0 13.0 12 8 7 11 3 7.43 2.03 3.67 0 0 0 1 0 0 .245
vs. Bos 2.67 6 5 0 0 1.27 17 17 0 1 1 101.0 80 35 30 118 48 10.48 4.26 2.46 1 6 8 4 4 0 .218
Erik Bedard
Split ERA W L Sv Svo Ratio G GS GF CG Sho IP H R ER K BB K/9 BB/9 K/BB IBB HR HB SH WP BK Avg. A
vs. Ana 6.33 1 3 0 0 1.89 5 5 0 0 0 27.0 37 19 19 20 14 6.51 4.55 1.43 1 2 1 2 0 0 .322
vs. Bos 4.95 4 4 0 0 1.37 11 10 0 0 0 60.0 49 35 33 47 33 7.05 4.95 1.42 0 4 2 0 2 0 .222
I have some old Starting Lineup figures, maybe the Twins would take those.
Nobody’s overvaluing Melky; everyone knows melky’s a bum; he just happens to be better and less $$ than the loser cookie crisp
The Rays would probably ask for Cano, Joba and Hughes for Kazmir.
Mike R – yanks dont NEED a long term CF solution. We dont know if AJ will be good anyway. I’d rather have santana if it was only going to take adding AJ. CF can be replaced every single offseason…
Ray,
I like him too. Do you think the Yankees can entice the Rays with a package of starters or something else?
I have serious doubts about Santana signing an extention if he is traded to the Angels or Sox.
In Baseball there is only one way to guarentee you are making top dollar – sign with the Yankees. We always over pay, most of the time by a huge amount. Even if he gets an offer of $150m, you have to think his agent will say “the yanks will probably go to $160-$180 in a year”. Can you really let a team buy out your chance to hit the market and not let Yankees either totally overpay or drive the price up for someone else? I am not so sure
Stev-o
December 4th, 2007 at 3:20 pm
Let’s move on… if the Twinkees come back so be it.
I do hope we’re looking down I95 to Baltimore at Bedard. Hard to trade w/in the division, but he’s a 28yr old lefty w some real nasty stuff (and less mileage on his arm than Johan too).
What would it take? IPK, Melky, Igawa and a B prospect?
————
according to reports:
There is growing buzz that the Dodgers may get Bedard. ESPN’s Amy Nelson has a source saying a deal may be close. Matt Kemp and Jonathan Broxton would be the main pieces of a trade. Readers are reporting in that WFAN is saying the same.
2:56 p.m., from Amy Nelson
• The Orioles and Dodgers may be close on a deal that will send left-hander Erik Bedard to Los Angeles, a baseball source said. The O’s are in need of a center fielder and a closer who can play at the major league level, and the Dogders seem willing to part with outfielder Matt Kemp and reliever Jonathan Broxton, who could come in a close in lieu of Chris Ray, out for the year after Tommy John surgery. “They want Bedard bad,” said the source.
Mike,
If you are apart of the Red Sox, I;m sure they’d take your starting lineups
Kazmir is 6-5 vs Boston with a 2.67 ERA and a Boston Team batting average of .218
Neither of them knew who Ajax was until yesterday or today. They sure as hell don’t know who Horne is. Pathetic. What do people think about using some chips to explore a Miguel Cabrera trade? I know the Marlins are driving the Angels crazy (hopefully to the point of switching their focus to JS), but can you imagine the line-up with him at 1st? Might not even need much pitching to get to the PS, and hope that you have enough to advance.
Tampa Bay hates the Yankees
They will not trade within the division
and after just getting Garza from the Twinkies are looking to win, not sell.
WOW!
To many fans fall in love w/ prospects!
If i was a Yankee fan i say get the job done no matter the cost!
As a sox Fan reading this, I can not understand the infactuation with melky and the negativity w/ Crisp.
Defense (range) – Edge Coco
Defense (Arm) – Edge Melky
Base Running = About Equal
Offense (avg) Edge Melky (slight)
Offense (power) Edge Coco
Contract – Edge Melky but Coco is still a good value.
Overall – The players are both Good players and value at a position that is not easy to fill. Edge – neither!
Come back to earth Melky & Coco are about equal.
The Yanks NEED Johan while the sox would love to add him.
The only real loser in this equation is the Yankee’s if they don’t get him.
So as i look at it, the Red Sox are playing keep away and honestly are in a win-win situation as long as the Yankee’s don’t get him.
p.s. Haren to Arizona…one more option off the board!
Humberto Sanchez is supposed to be back during 2008. How is his rehab progressing?
2:56 p.m., from Amy Nelson
• The Orioles and Dodgers may be close on a deal that will send left-hander Erik Bedard to Los Angeles, a baseball source said.
———
Funny- after 6 years, Torre finally gets an ace.
offer up melky/hughes/betemit and a low tier prospect.
twins need a 3rd baseman
Melky Cabrera is a year younger than Ellsbury and has 2 full years of MLB service under his belt. He hasn’t reached his ceiling yet.
I believe the Rays would love to have some of the Yanks SP prospects. All Rays are available I believe for the right price, which would be far less than Twinkies.
Boston Dave – I get that. You can replace the CF twice every off season if you’d like, but it still doesn’t eliminate the fact that it is an added cost. I am not saying that it would be impossible, or that it should never happen. I am only stating the fact that it would be an additional cost in the Santana acquisition. You would have to take the prospects you traded + $150 M he’s reported to want + the cost of a CF for the 6 years A-Jax could possibly give you for below market value.
But Yanklifer, he is not going to leave 150m on the table and risk getting injured this year. Plus, remember he stopped throwing his slider this year. Who knows if that is because his arm hurt, but it makes you wonder a bit.
JFV (Bean Town)
December 4th, 2007 at 3:25 pm
Come back to earth Melky & Coco are about equal.
———-
except Coco costs $4 MILLION dollars a year
and Melky costs $400k. Not. even. close.
M&MD don’t have to change a thing. People seem to tune in anyway. They don’t have to do research because they’re not held accountable. If people didn’t listen to ‘em, they’d have tanked years ago. Myself, I try to keep my exposure to them at an absolute minimum — for instance, if I know that Joe Girardi or Cash is going to be on.
Ray,
Float a package of SP’s for Kazmir…let’s hear it. I’m all for speculating about Kazmir.
To think that the Yankees are going to let guys like Alan Horne, Jackson, and Kennedy stop them from acquiring Santana and thus keeping him away from the Red Sox is extremely surprising.
How about Horne, Kennedy, Melky for Santana.
If they loke Horne so MUCH, then go that route. I think MN will come back to the Yankees. This is not over, not even close.
By the way, Melky is being down graded because of one bad month (one really bad month). His June July and August was amazing. Just to speculate had Melky hit at the same pace in Septemebr as he did June – August. His numbers would have ended up more like
545 .295, 75/75 (runs/RBI) 10/15 (HR/SB) OPS
tranlated at 600 AB would be .295 85|85 12|17 .780
Also for a three month span Melky’s OPS was .855
Hunter’s OPS last year was .889 and his career is.793
Rowand OPS last year was also .889 (in a band box) his career .805
Melky is not far behind!!!!
Great games available. From Tiger Woods to the last 5 Yankees championship runs on DVD http://www.sell.com/2389VV
Jeff, his rehab– as well as Melacon’s– is progressing well. I have read stuff to the effect they both may be ready in ST.
What about Santana’s thoughts during all of this bull? He’s an intelligent guy, he’s got a no-trade clause. He must know that he’s far more likely to get the $$$ he wants from New York than those tightwads in Boston. Why not put his foot down- New York or nothing, knowing he’s free to make his own deal next fall if the Twins call his bluff.
What you stated is exactly the point most of us are trying to make. Melky and Crisp are similar players stat wise except Melky is younger and 10 X cheaper. That makes melky more attractive to a money conscience team.
Global Warming, it is not Horne AND Jackson. It is one or the other– which is even more surprising.
would the red sox trade lester for hughes even up?
they would in a heartbeat.
so is there any doubt in anyone’s mind who is the better prospect?
Jackson was the number 1 rated prospect in the AFL… packaging him with Hughes is a steep price to pay. Are you going to be thrilled when they’re both on the ALL Star team representing Minnesota?
i’m hoping santana nixes the deal with his ntc. especially if bos didnt want to pay him what he wanted.
it’s not over yet
I hope Torre convinces his new GM totradefor Santana. anything to keep Santana away from Boston
I would like to hear from Joe Girardi here, I would like him to say what his stance is here. Hopefully he will say I want a #1 starter.
If the Yankees get ’stuck’ with Melky, I think they’ll be pleasantly surprised. I think Melky could break out in 2008 and hit .300 with a .800 OPS to go along with his strong defense.
Make the deal for Santana — He will acnhor the rotation for the next 5 years while a bevy of young picthers can be developed. Horne, Jackson, Tabata are interchangeable parts who do not really matter much each a crap-shoot in his own way. If nothing else has been learned over these last great Yankee years is that pitching is the key — in the AL you can not win a short series without it. Yankees took Shilling an Johnson to 7 games and lost on an ERROR by MO and an infield-in flare
The picthing collapsed against Boston, the Marlins, Angels, Tigers, Indians. They won with non-entities in RF, at 3B, at 2B.
It will be a powerful but aging offense for the next 5 years — some kids will grow and replace those traded. AND SOME OF THE NEW ONES will be traded to replace Jeter and Matsui and POSADA.
The revolves around pitching — Get the trade done
It’s true what they say.
“You can’t make a bedahd, you can’t buy a bedahd and you can’t find a bedahd.”
If Santana, for whatever reason, says no to the trade to boston, doesn’t that seriously decrease any leverage the twins might have?
3:12 p.m., from Buster Olney
• The Yankees and Twins haven’t talked at all so far Tuesday about Johan Santana, amid increasing indications Santana is going to be dealt to Boston. The Twins are also talking to the Angels, however.
“Jackson was the number 1 rated prospect in the AFL… packaging him with Hughes is a steep price to pay. Are you going to be thrilled when they’re both on the ALL Star team representing Minnesota?”
Sunny what are the chances of that actually happening?
That’s like me saying “are YOU going to be thrilled?” when the Red Sox have a rotation of Becket, Santana, and Matsusaka while we are juggling with young pitchers going through growing pains===and that’s even IF they make it to their respective potentials.
I’m a betting man, I’d go with the proven horse in Santana but that’s just me.
Any manager would want a number 1 starter… Girardi would be foolish if he didn’t say that. What would be interesting is hearing how many kids he’d give up to get one (not that he would because he’d be stepping on Cash’s and Hanks toes).
Hey PA,
i enjoy your blog and look forward to it very much but i use to live in northern Jersey and now i reside in Tennessee…..lay off the “hillbilly” stuff ok….and i have been to the opryland hotel….it sure is big and confusing but reguardless its beautiful…be thankful you are there.
Have we seen Bobcat or Miller lately? Did they get run off the blog or something?
I think the Twins ‘interest’ in Lester is 100% fabrication.
NTC NTC NTC
Master Wangkee
December 4th, 2007 at 3:33 pm
I think the Twins ‘interest’ in Lester is 100% fabrication.
——–
can you confirm this?
I believe the proper term is “hillwilliam”
Actually, Ajax played in Hawaii this fall. But he was named the top prospect there, as I believe Joba was last year.
Yanks shoudl expand trade with the Twins to include both Santana and Nathan.
Hughes, Cabrera, Horne, Jackson, Marquez or something similar for Santana and Nathan.
That’d take the sting out of giving up all the young guys. Nathan would take over closing job from Mo in the next two years or so. Just an idea
The Twins can have Hughes/Jackson
not Hughes/Melky/Jackson.
I think he is only stating his own opinions. Repeatedly mind you, but his opinions. I don’t think he is basing it on anything other than observation and inference.
I’d rather they included MOrneau or Mauer instead of Nathan
Dont know if you guys have posted this yet but Clippard has been traded for Johnathan Albaladejo. Albaladejo is a 25 year old righthanded reliever who had 1.88 ERA in 14.1 innings for the Nationals. In AAA in 60.2 innings he had 56 to 22 K to BB ratio with a 2.97 ERA. I have read he has battled injuries and weight problems though.
“which would be far less than Twinkies.”
No one has explained to me WHY people think that Bedard, Haren, or Kazmir (who the Rays have expressed NO desire to trade) would cost less in prospects than Santana.
Kemp + Broxton (rumored center of a Bedard deal) is quite the price. Kemp is a young potential star CFer and Broxton is a legit young setup/closer candidate.
What’s the Haren deal, now? I think it’s one of the touted Dbacks OFers and Conor Jackson, who hit decently this year and raked in the minors.
For the Angels and Dodgers to get in the Santana sweepstakes tells me that Detroit is going to land Cabrera.
This deal isnt over. Both of these teams can trump the deal the sox are offering.
If Haren is going and Bedard is as well. Kazmir wont be traded to the Yankees(for sure). Why not go after Sheets? He would probaly cost us Kennedy and we get to keep Hughes.
Earlier today Cashman said that there are trades people wouldnt expect that are comming. Could that be a Giambi,Matsui or Mussina?
Mike R.
December 4th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
I think he is only stating his own opinions. Repeatedly mind you, but his opinions. I don’t think he is basing it on anything other than observation and inference.
———-
ah
Peter wrote: “These GMs get paid to evaluate talent.”
For instance, Dave Littlefield, erstwhile of the Pittsburgh Pirates, was paid to evaluate talent. The Pirates have consistently been one of the worst team in baseball, while acquiring useless old talent and dropping promising young prospects.
Littlefield is gone. The Minnesota Twins’ fifteen minutes of fame is gone. The Yankees have a pennant race to worry about.
Oh, and Boston has Jon Lester.
I like the Ben Sheets idea. He has great stuff, just has had trouble with injuries. That and his impending free agency would make him a little cheaper for the yankees compared to Haren and Kazmir.
If the Miggy to Tigers deal is true, then the Angels could well land Santana and the Dodgers Bedard… and all this hoopla was for naught.
Miguel Cabrera has lost 15 pounds holy sh!t. Screw Arod i want miguel.
“I’d rather they included MOrneau or Mauer instead of Nathan”
Who wouldn’t?
If you think they’d actually DO that, you’re crazy.
And the Angels just got a whole lot more dangerous.
Of course I’m crazy, but if the Twins want Hughes, Kennedy, Horne and Jackson, why can’t I ask for Santana, Mauer, and MOrneau?
I cant for the life of me understand why adding Alan Horne into this package is a deal breaker. ITS JOHAN SANTANA.
I would love Sheets, high risk, high reward. but the brewers are not dealing him.
in other news
ESPN MAGAZNE HAS VOTED JOBA CHAMBERLAIN THE NEXT BEST ATHELETE!!!!!!!
ESPN trade rumors on ESPN NEWS RIGHT NOW.
“Why not go after Sheets? He would probaly cost us Kennedy and we get to keep Hughes.”
Why not just keep Kennedy? Sheets can’t stay on the field and costs as much as Pavano does. What’s the point?
Lester sports a 1.5 WHIP in the majors. The Twins can’t be as interested in him as we’re being led to believe. I’m sure somebody in the FO very diplomatically translated the meaning of WHIP for Hank. Lester. Give me a break.
I think
Ian Kennedy, J. Brent Cox. Jeff Karstens, & Chris Britton
could get Kazmir. Possibly add another player like C, Francisco Cervelli
I’m pretty sure it was a joke.
I would like the ANGELS to be better, if that means the redsox don’t improve.
It’s not just Horne… the Twins want Hughes, Melky, Horne and Jackson not either or. 4 for 1 deal.
wha….? i don’t believe the tigers would part with either of the two.
“The Tigers want Haren enough that they might be induced to part with outfielder Cameron Maybin and pitcher Andrew Miller, according to one source. Both would be on the A’s wish list.”
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/.....MTNE39.DTL
“Of course I’m crazy, but if the Twins want Hughes, Kennedy, Horne and Jackson, why can’t I ask for Santana, Mauer, and MOrneau?”
Because, as much as I believe in Hughes et al, I KNOW that Mauer and Morneau are young all-stars.
Mike R.
December 4th, 2007 at 3:40 pm
whozat
December 4th, 2007 at 3:38 pm
“I’d rather they included MOrneau or Mauer instead of Nathanâ€
Who wouldn’t?
If you think they’d actually DO that, you’re crazy.
I’m pretty sure it was a joke.
—-
you got it!
“Ian Kennedy, J. Brent Cox. Jeff Karstens, & Chris Britton”
Wangkee, this guy is just yanking your chain.
If the Orioles trade Bedahd (nice work Wike R.) for Kemp and Broxton they’re even dumber than we all thought. I feel so sorry for those people in Baltimore.
3:28 p.m., from Peter Gammons
• The Twins and Red Sox are getting closer to finalizing a Johan Santana deal. Boston has sweetened its offer by adding a fifth player to the the offer — outfield prospect Ryan Kalish, a ninth-round pick in the 2006 draft out of Red Bank Catholic High School (Shrewsbury, N.J.).
• The Marlins and Angels are serious about moving Miguel Cabrera to the Angels. Expect Florida to get Howie Kendrick, Nick Adenhart, Jeff Mathis and a prospect from L.A. for the third baseman.
Sunny – I think there is a sarcasm filter here. I’ve noticed a lot of people have trouble with it.
whozat
December 4th, 2007 at 3:41 pm
“Of course I’m crazy, but if the Twins want Hughes, Kennedy, Horne and Jackson, why can’t I ask for Santana, Mauer, and MOrneau?â€
Because, as much as I believe in Hughes et al, I KNOW that Mauer and Morneau are young all-stars.
———
I’m just playing Bill Smith’s game of insanity.
I could not agree more with Pete. Melky is a good,not great player. In order for him to be included in this trade, the Yankees should be required to give up another preospect.
Ian Kennedy should be off limits. But let’s assume the Yanks would like to win before Jeter, Posada and Mo are at the end of their run. That means that Alan Horne, who turns turns 25 next month, needs to become a top of the rotation starter within the next 3 years. Austin Jackson needs to becomes a bonifide impact player within the same time frame. Otherwise, the Yanks have made a huge mistake in protecting them.
We’re looking at a $200mil payroll next year without a #1 starter and short at least 2 arms in the bullpen. How embarrasing is that?
As much as I hate seeing Johan go to the Sox, think about it, we have more prospects and won’t have another one of those wars in a while.
Mike R… very true… too bad there isn’t some blinking warning sign or something so readers can know for sure… but then – where’s the fun?
So then tell them they can have AJax, but we keep Melky.
Hughes, Horne, and AJax. where do i sign?
Thank you Jon. I was hoping someone would pick up on that.
From Baseball Prospectus…..
One insider believes that despite what the Yankees are saying in the press, the deal with the Twins for Johan Santana is anything but dead. “This is their M.O. in every way,” he said. “I’ve been dealing with them for years on stuff like this, and they say it’s not going to happen, and they wait for things to die down, and that’s when they pounce. I bet they still get him.”
–Kevin Goldstein, 2:50 p.m. ET
Man, there is just posturing going on from all angles on all kinds of things. This is CRAZY!!!
Whozat,
I never agreed with him. I think a Kazmir trade proposal starts with Hughes or doesn’t start at all.
Mike R –
Depends how much you want santana. Adding Ajax stinks, but seems like a reasonable addition to get the deal done. No Kennedy no Horne.
whozat-The difference between Sheets and Kennedy is that Sheets(when healthy)is an ace. I know that he is injury prone,but he is worth taking the risk on.
As far as comparing him to Pavano, at least when healthy, we have a shut down pitcher. Unlike Mr.butthurt.
Drive 4-5, EXACTLY.
If the Angels land JS (if there is a God in heaven…), I do nothing. I go with the kids–happily– and hope that Joba or PH (or both) turn into the type of a starter(s) who can dominate a short playoff series.
bphill
December 4th, 2007 at 3:44 pm
As much as I hate seeing Johan go to the Sox, think about it, we have more prospects and won’t have another one of those wars in a while.
——-
unfortunately – this “war” was for the best pitcher in baseball… crap.
if you are using your prospects for anyone, Johan is THE player you do it for.
If I am Hank Steinbrenner I take the jet to Nashville, sit Bill Smith in a suite, lock the door, grab my check book and give him a check for $40 million and just buy Santana. Maybe I throw in Karstens.
Do we now turn or attention to Dan Haren immediatley?
“So then tell them they can have AJax, but we keep Melky.
Hughes, Horne, and AJax. where do i sign?”
That deal is even worse than Hughes, Melky, Horne.
“I never agreed with him. I think a Kazmir trade proposal starts with Hughes or doesn’t start at all.”
I know:-) I’m just expressing that I doubt he’s worth talking to on this issue.
Rebecca,
Let’s pray thats wrong. You mean to tell me the Yanks can’t beat an offer without Ellsbury or Bucholz? If Gammons is correct, it proves one thing. The Yanks have a higher opinion of Melky and their prospects than the rest of baseball.
Hughes > Lester
Melky
Kennedy, Melky, and Horne for Sheets. Get ‘er done.
TurnTwo
December 4th, 2007 at 3:44 pm
So then tell them they can have AJax, but we keep Melky.
Hughes, Horne, and AJax. where do i sign?
————
how do we know Cash hasn’t offered that already and Smithy said no?
Gammons says the Bosux have added a 5th player to the package, and are getting closer to finalizing it.
Pitchers Yankees should consider looking at
Haren
F. Hernandez
Kazmir
Carmona
Just look into that, and see what it would take to get any of them.
The Yankees set themselves up for failure for being so public about Johan Santana and the trade negotiations (cough*Hank*cough).
bphill,
How much would you give for Haren and his 49-46 3.86 record? IMO he’s not worth pursuing. The Yanks need to get real and give up Horne or Jackson for Santana.
I don’t want to read a single Hughes bashing post over the next five years from those who are praying we keep him if he isn’t a bonafied ace. Many are already crowning the guy as a perennial all star… Just saying…
“whozat-The difference between Sheets and Kennedy is that Sheets(when healthy)is an ace. I know that he is injury prone,but he is worth taking the risk on.”
I disagree, mainly because I don’t think he’ll be healthy. It’s been three years since he pitched a full season.
3:34 p.m., from Buster Olney
• The Blue Jays continue to talk with the Orioles about left-hander Erik Bedard. Toronto probably has the young pitching to anchor a deal.
If this happens…
The Redsox have Beckett, Santana
The Bluejays have Bedard, Halladay
The Yankees have______,________
NOONE!
bphill – sure – let’s make trade offers to young cost-controlled phenoms. Think we offered too much for Santana? Plan on selling the farm for a guy like King Felix.
whozat
I also suggested C, Francisco Cervelli with Ian Kennedy, J. Brent Cox. Jeff Karstens, & Chris Britton. Perhaps Horne may be needed as well, but this would be more palatable than losing Hughes.
Karstens is a serviceable pitcher & Kennedy a potential ace. Cox & Britton would fit in now for the bullpen that was sorely lacking. Horne probably would be needed because TB would be dealing with the Yankees. Cervelli is perhaps the Yanks top Catching prospect (along with Jesus Montero) & TB is always looking for Catchers.
Johan Santana is very good. Very good. But all of this has become so much bigger than life itself. I mean, go back a week on this thread, its just so funny, we had the cult of bobcat, then we had that the yankees were going to get him without hughes, then hughes was in, then the red soxs were in, then they were favorites, then we had hammerin hank and his deadline, then we had santana going to red soxs for mike greenwell and jody reed. Every minute everyone updates everyone with what is happening. I long for the days where I would be surprised that Bernie signed with the yankees, and that was way back in 98….
How is Wang not a #1 starter? He was injured for part of last season and still got 19 wins. Give me a break. He’s a #1. And Pettitte is as good of a #2 as I’ve ever seen. He went 15-9 last season but could have EASILY had 20 wins if the offense wasn’t completely out of sync when Pettitte was giving up 2 or less runs in 7-8 innings.
You guys are ridiculous! We were the best team in baseball by a longshot with Wang, Andy, Clemens, Hughes, and Moose, plus our fantastic offense and terrible bullpen.
Our bullpen has IMPROVED so far. Rotation has IMPROVED and our Offense should stay roughly the same or IMPROVE with Melky getting regular time and Giambi likely to be healthy.
Even if Boston lands Johan, I still see us as the favorite to win the division next season. When did Yankees fans become so paranoid of Boston? The same Boston that finished in third place in 2006.
Come on guys.
If the Twins take the Sox offer good for them.
If the Sox get Santana good for them,they will be as close to a lock to the WS as anyone can be in baseball without having played a single game.
As for locking up the division for the next 5 yrs as i read somewhere in this post…that remains to be seen. With V-tek, Manny and Schilling all on their way out, we’ll just have to see.
As for me, as a die-hard Yankee fan I will enjoy watching Huhges, Joba and Kennedy blossom…or flop. The current Yankee roster had the best record in the MLs after the all-star break so we’ll just have to see what happens when they play the actual games.
On a different note anyone have any insight into the pithcer the Yanks got from the Nationals other than his statisitcs (i can search the web with the best of ‘em)
This is all Hank’s fault. If only he had shut up the Twins would have taken Kennedy and Melky for Santana. If he were extra quiet they might have thrown Nathan in. Hank and his big mouth!!
bphill
December 4th, 2007 at 3:47 pm
Do we now turn or attention to Dan Haren immediatley?
————–
Boston Herald
Colleague Michael Silverman just passed along that the A’s and D-Backs have had constructive talks about a deal which would send Dan Haren to Arizona and Conor Jackson and Carlos Gonzalez along with two more players to Oakland.
Nick Piecoro of AZcentral
The Boston Herald reports that the two teams had “constructive talks†about a deal that would send Conor Jackson, Carlos Gonzalez and two others to the A’s.
I’m being told that Jackson wasn’t included in the offer. Not sure who was – and I’m not sure if Jackson wasn’t in it because the Diamondbacks didn’t want to trade him or because the A’s weren’t interested.
But if it’s Gonzalez and three others, you have to assume that those three others are going to be young major leaguers or highly regarded prospects such as Brett Anderson, Brooks Brown, etc.
Could Johan possibly be overvalued……Indians 5-0 against him this year…prob not,just saying though
If Yankees are interested in one of Santana/Haren/Bedard (reads a proven 1 or 2 SP or 15+ wins in the bank), the best option is pay a little more to get Santana. Johan is by far the best pitcher of the three but once Santana goes, Yankees will likely need to provide a pkg similar to what they are offering for Santana now to be competitive. First, there will be more extensive bidding war for Haren since he is more affordable to more clubs. Second, it will be hard for O’s to trade Bedard to a divisional rival. So basically, would you rather give-up one additional prospect to get Santana or keep that prospect and have Haren…who is overrated.
Give the Twins the 3 or 4 players they want and get ready to enjoy Santana win the next 5 Cy-Young.
“Pitchers Yankees should consider looking at
Haren
F. Hernandez
Kazmir
Carmona
Just look into that, and see what it would take to get any of them.”
Question…why would any of those teams trade those guys (outside of Haren who Beane is shopping)???
How could the Cleveland GM possibly play off trading Carmona for prospects at this point? That’s stupid.
Pete’s expressed, yet many do it anyway: Put yourselves in the shoes of the opposing GM when you propose a trade (and try to be objective). if you were that GM could you possibly pull the trigger?
OK – who’s got the updated 2009 Free Agent Pitcher list?
baseball expert
December 4th, 2007 at 3:47 pm
forget about next 5 years if boston gets santana! good job cashman!
————
so Hughes, Kennedy, Melky, Austin Jackson, and Allan Horne for Santana a good deal for you?
mrytlebeachfan,
Given Wang’s putrid playoff performance he’s not a legitimate #1. He’s a nice pitcher, but he’s not dominant. A legitimate #1 is dominant, especially in hte postseason.
Drive 4-5
December 4th, 2007 at 3:49 pm
bphill,
How much would you give for Haren and his 49-46 3.86 record? IMO he’s not worth pursuing. The Yanks need to get real and give up Horne or Jackson for Santana.
————–
If it was Horne or Jackson, I would too, but it’s not. It’s Hughes, Melky, Horne AND Jackson.
If the Yankees even asked the Rays about Scott Kazmir, then the Rays most likely ask for Joba in return. The Rays seem to be headed in the right direction and it would put a damper on the good trade that they made with the Twins. Kazmir can team up with James Shields and Matt Garza to form a young 1-2-3 punch. Unless you want to give up Joba, Kazmir isn’t an option. You don’t trade your ace to a division rival.
Sunny – Please ignore Baseball Expert. The guy is a troll. He visits multiple Yankee blogs making those kind of comments. He is to be avoided at all costs.
So the Sox throw in another piece of coal into the offer plate. They are willing to trade five guys for one. That’s how important Santana is. They want to lock NY out of the division title into the next decade.
thats what they said about bernie, thanks for jinxing it peter!
New pete post
Sorry, did not see that was already posted. The bosux are just putting a bunch of b-list players together. I do not understand why we are not doing the same thing. We have some at the lowere minor leagues that are just as well regarded. Do not understand walking away and not trying to be creative. It is clear that PH and Melky trump Lester/Crisp, so why don’t we put together 2-3 names to match the bosux 3-5 guys. Not that hard to do. To simply make no more offers when the balance of power may shift for the next 5 years (or until the “True Yankees” are old and gray) makes no sense to me. If you have come this far, don’t hold up the deal for lesser talents. Btw, the Angels’ “interest” I bet was simply a way to move the Marlins off the dime.
I just said look into it…Kazmir is a must. The Yankees will finsh thrid in the division if they don’t get Santana bedard or kazmir or haren or some freaking decent pitcher.
The Yankees should look into trading for Josh Beckett. I wonder what it would take to get him.
oh, wait….
Yeah, Santana is a very good pitcher…in fact, the best in the game today. However, he did give up 4 or more runs in 12 of his 33 starts in 2007. Is it really worth depleting your farm system for that? I think the Yankees should keep the long-term perspective here, which it seems they are doing. Hughes, Melky, and a mid-level prospect for Santana? YES. Those 3 plus Kennedy or Jackson? NO. And if Santana goes to the Red Sox, so be it. As many have already said, they still have to play the games. And while he’s certainly not in the class of Santana, Wang gave up 4 or more runs 10 times in 30 starts in 2007…quite similar to Johan. Yes, he stunk in the playoffs, but remember Santana’s playoff record, too, which isn’t that good.
Mike R.
December 4th, 2007 at 3:55 pm
Sunny – Please ignore Baseball Expert. The guy is a troll. He visits multiple Yankee blogs making those kind of comments. He is to be avoided at all costs.
———–
done.
bphill
December 4th, 2007 at 3:55 pm
I just said look into it…Kazmir is a must. The Yankees will finsh thrid in the division if they don’t get Santana bedard or kazmir or haren or some freaking decent pitcher.
———-
Hughes, Joba, and Kennedy aren’t decent pitchers?
I would not deplete the farm system, but I would try to put together 2-3 guys who match favorably with the bosux 3-5.
Migames, do you mean to tell me you don’t want to hear about what Johan ate for lunch this afternoon?
This “sky is falling” mentality because the Yanks don’t get Santana is really amazing! Kazmir? Haren? Bedard? C’mon, people. Are these the guys that are going to make the difference? These guys are going to command almost as much as the Twins want for Santana. Bedard would hate pitching in the lights of New York…Kazmir throws way too many pitches…and Haren is barely over .500 for his career. And again, their GM’s are going to want a lot for them.
raymagnetic
December 4th, 2007 at 4:01 pm
Migames, do you mean to tell me you don’t want to hear about what Johan ate for lunch this afternoon?
———
i heard it was filet mignon
Sanatana traded for a cardboard cutout of Yaz, Bill Lee’s bong, and John freaking Marzano’s shin guards
Drive 4-5
“mrytlebeachfan,
Given Wang’s putrid playoff performance he’s not a legitimate #1. He’s a nice pitcher, but he’s not dominant. A legitimate #1 is dominant, especially in hte postseason.”
He pitched decently in 2006 AND Santana is just as bad in the playoffs in a bigger sample. So truly the Red Sox would only have one ace, Beckett. Santana would not be an ace, but rather a pitcher worse than Wang in the playoffs. What does that put Santana at, then, with your logic? A #3 starter?
Wang is our ace. I’m content to go forward with that. He’s a very good pitcher with a nasty sinker and consistent performance. 19 wins a season is impressive, I dont care who you pitch for. Look for 19 more in 2008.
Santana wins the same # of games that Wang does. Wang does it in the AL East, facing more potent offenses. Toronto isn’t a pushover and neither is Tampa Bay in their ability to score runs.
There just really isn’t that much difference between the guy who wins the Cy Young and the guy who gets second if it means you are getting rid of your top prospect for that small jump.
Not to mention Joba and Hughes will be dominating the AL in a few years. I’m rambling, but I dont see Santana as a god. Let’s not forget Wang is younger, too.
i feel the offer is a little more fair with kalish thrown in as well. that is good quality, good quantity. in all honesty, the twins aren’t going to get much from this deal, but with 5 guys, at least two of them might end up being quality contributors.
Update 4:08 PM
The Filet Mignon was returned because Johan felt it was overcooked. The Twins are said to be “peeved at this recent turn of events.
Its about this time of day the quality of the posts begin to drop off.
The trolls, the doom and gloom crowd, and their relatives, begin to show up and declare with certainty the Yankees are “done” for the next 5 years.
Such intelligent insights.
This is done. The Twins will puff their chests boasting about getting a 5 for 1 deal and Gammons will report that each one of those 5 are future all stars and come at a terrible cost to the poor Sox.
The only hope at this point is Johan doesn’t take the Red Sox extension offer which is still a possibility, although if the Red Sox are trading 5 of their guys, they clearly want Johan.
I don’t think they added the 5th player to drive the Yankees price higher.
I think they are finally in this to get Johan.
I still don’t think they are giving up a better package than what the Yankees were willing to, but at this point their 5 players kind of dwarf the quality we were being forced to trade with quantity.
This is not good.
All of you tap dancing about keeping Hughes and Austin Jackson, get back to me next season when the Red Sox are steam rolling through the AL with Johan, Beckett, Dice K, Bucholtz, Schilling and Papelbon closing.
I didn’t want the Yankees to get fleeced and they didn’t. But not making this deal isn’t making the team any better, folks and the only thing I fear now is an “answer move” where the Yankees trade the farm for Haren.
I’d rather have Johan than Haren.
Ugh.
sunny615,
The thing is, with the Yanks current offer they are giving up one terrific prospect in Hughes, a middle of the road outfielder in Melky and an unamed 2nd or 3rd tier prospect. That is simply not enough for the best left hander in baseball.
How many “prospects” have you heard rave reviews about that don’t turn into anything? The fact is, the vast majority of “prospects” turn into little, if any, value at he major league level.
I don’t see how the Yankees can justify not making this deal.
Pete, can you please ban baseball expert until he can talk maturely about baseball?
SJ44,
What’s your take on this?
We’ll let’s see how this will all play out… let the Bosox play the Yankee role this time and unload their farm system and bloat their payroll. If the Angels come in great but the Yanks should stay the course now and fine tune the bullpen …maybe if they can get Haren on the cheap which I doubt…they should stick withe kids and lets watch it play out. This takes greater guts to hold forth… and …nobody wins anything in March! Let’s relax here a little and enjoy the show!
G. Love
December 4th, 2007 at 4:06 pm
This is done. The Twins will puff their chests boasting …
Ugh.
______________________________________________________
I Agree. The problem with thoughts of many here regarding what Yankees should part with is that not only will Yankees have improved, but it would have prevented BSox from getting better…much better. To make the matters worse, now it looks like Yankees may not have Haren nor Bedard.
Hopefully, baseball expert’s mom will come down to the basement soon and tell him that it’s time to get off the computer.
basically,
the Sox are offering two ML starters, two guys that are very close (i.e. might play in the majors in 08), and a good-looking prospect who’s a long ways off.
the Yankees offered one high-ceiling starter, one regular ML starter….and a good-looking prospect who’s a long ways off.
that’s why the Sox offer comes out ahead.
Better yet…looks like Pete told him it was time to get off the computer lol
hopefully you die soon KE
“Outside of his arm, he’s not that great a centerfielder.”
That’s like saying outside of her ass, Jessica Alba isn’t that hot. Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Melky lead the league in outfield assists last year? There’s a reason he’s starting in Center at $450,000 a year over Johnny Damon, who is still a decent CF.
And he’s more than just his hitting. He has speed on the basepaths and is the best on the team (now that Mientkiewicz is gone) at sacrifices (fifth in the league last year); in other words, he manufactures runs. Go on Baseball reference, scroll to the bottom, and see which other players he compares with at through age 22. There’s ten on there; all had very successful careers, two were HOFers, and one was Roberto Clemente.
And look at his intangibles. He had a definite impact on Arod’s play last year, and he’s best friends with Melky Cabrera. He’s worth more to the clubhouse chemistry after just two years with the team than most others are. I think trading him would be one of the biggest mistakes this team ever made, right alongside Jay Buhner. And don’t forget that he’d be making about 23 million dollars less than Santana every year. Do you want to be paying $30 for bleachers tickets? Actually, I know Peter doesn’t care, he can go for free, and he needs easy stories to write about. Stars like Santana, win or fail, provide those stories, and unfortunately egomaniacs like the Steinbrenners worry all too much about the media’s opinion.
JUST HEARD ON WEEI BOSTON
Rob Bradford a reporter for a newspaper in MA (or RI, I don’t know) just reported on WEEI (Boston) that the Twins have told the Red Sox that they want to get the deal done and finalized by the end of the day today.
He went on to say and I’m trying to quote him here, “the only wild card is if the Yankees come in and forget about the deadline from yesterday and include Ian Kennedy”.
Bradford then said, the feeling now in the afternoon at winter meetings is that EVERYONE (execs, gms, baseball people in general) is all of sudden saying if you have a chance to get Johan Santana, then you do whatever it takes to get it done…. he then said you don’t let one good but not superior prospect hold up the deal (kennedy).
FYI
I have said from the beginning that the Yankees need to offer quantity — they have it but they don’t seem to be using it to advantage. Now BOston — with thinner system — is offering five middling talents. With Hughes at top of package we can match with four superior add-ons that are better than Sox package without surrendering what we need.
I’m against trading Hughes. If the Twins want the magic Boston Baked Beans for their best player, let them take the deal. Lester will get shelled in that dome and Crisp is a stiff. It is annoying that the Twins want the Yanks to pony up their best pitching prospect since Brien Taylor (and he was fantastic before he wrecked his shoulder in the infamous brawl) while allowing the RedSawx to potentially get Santana for a #3-#4, a no-hit CF and two above-average stiffs — a deal only slightly better than Casey Fossum plus three carbon-based masses for Schilling.
And NO HUGHES FOR HAREN deal, ever.
good thing we have Kei Igawa
Im surprised the BoSox didn’t try to dump JD drew in the deal, Bill Smith may have been enticed with him.
“Its not just Damon for one year in CF if you trade Cabrera and Jackson.
Its Damon for the foreseeable future in CF.
The reason why the Yankees could trade guys like Hughes and Cabrera in the same deal was because they had people to fill those roles.
If you trade those guys AND the people to fill their roles, it doesn’t make much sense to me.”
You don’t need a high level prospect at each position to fill every hole you might have 2-3 years down the line. I like Austin Jackson but he’s a few years away. I also liked Ruben Rivera years ago and I’d feel pretty stupid today if I’d had an opportunity to acquire Pedro Martinez in his prime but had refused to included RR in the deal.
If we continue to develop strong high ceiling pitching prospects (Betances, Brackman, etc), we can convert one of them into a decent CF’er a few years down the road. At that point, we’d presumably have Johan in his early 30’s, and Wang, Joba & Kennedy still in their 20’s. I’m not advocating a policy of trading away the farm for veterans, but Santana is a special case. The rules shouldn’t apply here.
The issue for many of us Yankee fans is not Melk. Most of us realize that Melky is a nice player and can be replaced, though Damon may not be the answer. The concern was giving up PHIL HUGHES and potentially others like Austin Jackson and Ian Kennedy. Thankfully, the Yankee brass used its collective head. But we love Melky but we know he’s not the second-coming of Aaron Rowand
For some reason one team will always value certain prospects more than another team will. Case in point: John Lester. This guy, like Melky Cabrera, is getting hype cuz he plays in a big market.
Obviously the Twins like Crisp more than Cabrera, so any leverage you people think Melky gives us, think twice.
This deal is all about Phil Hughes. If we have to throw in Marquez and Tabata with Melky and Hughes I do the trade. Not sure the Twins would, they seem to require Kennedy AND Jackson. That one I don’t do.
The Twins’ interest in Kennedy shows you that he is projected to be valuable.
Don’t expect the Yankees to jump back in it. Don’t expect the Twins to approach them either.
Dateline Aug 2008:
This just in:
realizing that Johan Santana makes 3x’s his salary, Josh Beckett reverts to his 2006 performance. And no it was not a fluke, Santana continues to pitch like he did in the 2nd half of 2007, Curt Schilling has continued his slow but consistent decline and major league hitters have figured out the Gyro ball. All this while the Yankees extend their first place lead over the Blue Jays to 6 games.
Just kidding, but come on guys this is not the end of the year or decade as some have bredicted. If the Yankees get Santana it would be great if they don’t its not armageddon. Please remember Rick Rhoden and Steve Trout (traded for Doug Drabek and Beb Tewksbury).
Santana is the best pitcher in the majors. If you can’t get four top minor leaguers for him, then pay the guy his due and keep him. Let’s face it, neither Boston nor NY want to ante up with a fair deal. I for one am tired of major market teams with big money media deals eating up the available talent just because teams like Minnesota, KC, and Baltimore don’t want to pay thier players. MLB needs to get rid of rich boys who want to use their franchise to “earn a living” and start awarding franchises to people who want to WIN at any cost! MLB needs a rule that 75% of gross revenues be ear marked for player payroll, scouting and development. It simply is unacceptable watching the Peter Angeloses of the world milk their franchises dry, at the expense of their fans! Sign Santana and keep him in Minnesota!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Will Carroll and Baseball Prospectus:
Jon Lester, Coco Crisp, Justin Masterson and Ryan Kalish are the package the Twins just accepted from Boston.
What did the hand say to the face? SLAP!!!!
This has to burn. ha.
Really, how long are you guys going to let Brian Cashman stick around. Ian Kennedy? The cog that holds the chain together stopped this trade.
That’s freaking hilarious.
hahahahahaahahaha.
Good luck with Wang in the Playoffs again. I’m almost sad for you. Almost.
ha.
If the Twins want quantity over quality, give them Horne, Jackson, S Duncan, Betemit and A Gonzales. It isn’t just about giving them Kennedy, Jackson or Horne, we are already giving them our #3 starter and our starting CF for THIS YEAR.
“Will Carroll and Baseball Prospectus:
Jon Lester, Coco Crisp, Justin Masterson and Ryan Kalish are the package the Twins just accepted from Boston.”
Actually if you read Will Carroll’s post it says “Jon Lester, a centerfielder, Justin Masterson and Ryan Kalish” so it sounds like its possible that they relented and subbed Ellsbury for Crisp.
If so that makes more sense. I’d still say that’s a great deal for the red sox and that they are selling high on Ellsbury. He’s better than Crisp but if I don’t think many expect him to be a star. However, I read on a Minnesota blog that the twins like Ellsbury over Hughes as crazy as that sounds.
I’ve read before that the Yankees or Redsox at various times were really close to finalizing without it being true so we’ll see. This could be far from over.
The Twins asking for Hughes AND Kennedy is outragous. The Yanks are offering a pretty decent young center fielder, an ace pitcher in the making and a couple of decent prospects to go along with it….And what is Boston offering…ah yes, Lester, Crisp, and three other minor leaguers like Lowrie and some Kalish guy who probably wont even play for a couple of years. If the Twins want Hughes and Kennedy, why not ask for Lester and Ellsbury?
You know what? Santana and World Series wins are great. But watching three young friends grow up together in Yankee uniforms is nice too, and perhaps something that hits you even deeper than numbers and rings.
Either way I’ll leave happy.
“All will be well in Yankee land….”
Am I the only one that’s noticed the Yankees have spent over
(turning pinky around and touching lower lip) one BILLION DOLLARS since their last ring?
Hey Peter, you should realize the lessons of diversity and apply them to Nashville as well. NY city isn’t the only place on the planet. Your attitude toward Nashville is very sad and points to your apparent insecurities lol.