Cashman focusing on bullpen
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Dec 05, 2007 
Print This Post
| 
Email This Post
If you’re hoping for big news out of the Yankees, keep hoping. Brian Cashman said the Yankees are discussing some minor trades but isn’t overly optimistic that something will get done before he leaves here tomorrow.
Cashman talked at length about his in-house options for the bullpen. The Yankees seem pretty determined to give guys like Alan Horne, Jeff Marquez, Kei Igawa, Jeff Karstens and Steven White a chance to make the team as relievers.
They are still hoping to sign Luis Vizcaino.
Cashman talked about Jonathan Albaladejo. He said their scouts have been watching him since last year and saw him pitch recently in the Venezuelan League. Big guy, good slider. Decent fastball. He has three options left.
It’s Alba-la-DAY-ho, by the way.
——————–
Sorry about the tech issues before. You should be able to post now.
I’d love to get Marte.
Anyone hear anything else about a Marte deal?
Marte would be nice. But lets not overpay for guys who cannot handle new york’s pressure but want new york’s money. Let the kids play!
It seems like it’d be more worthwhile to have Igawa work on showing he can start at AAA…then at least they can trade him for some value. paying $5MM for a lefty reliever seems dumb, unless he’s a setup guy. Maybe he could do that, if he kept his pitches down.
Kei Igawa out of the bullpen? There’s a comforting thought.
Marte would be a trade target, not a signing. So, he wouldn’t be on a bloated contract, but he would cost somebody in trade. Who knows what the Pirates want.
If Horne can maintain the command he showed up until the last quarter of the season last year I’d really like to see if he could fill the 8th inning role.
He’s got outstanding stuff – a very live arm.
The only question on him has been his command which become spotty at times, particularly at the end of the year when it looked like he was tiring.
Given their depth, they need to bring some of these guys up and use them in the pen if they aren’t going to trade them.
Horne is very talented but there may or may not be any room for him in the rotation next year if they keep hughes, kennedy and mussina.
“Alba-la-DAY-ho,” huh? I wonder if Sterling will break into Harry Belafonte song with the last two syllables of the man’s name.
Another RP name I’ve heard in whom the Yanks might be interested is the Braves’ Ron Mahay, though I think he’s a free agent.
If they do sign Vizcaino, I hope they move him to long relief or whatever Brian Bruney ends up doing (if anything).
and just like that…. bobcat has disapeared. That is now 3 days? None of his predications came through…. just goes to show you don’t trust anyone that says they ‘know’
Yea- I like Horne out of the pen. He’s big, got a nice arm. Should get some outs on intimidation and hitters being unfamiliar alone.
Maybe treat him just like Joba last year.
anyone feel that the yanks will still get johan
What are the odds Igawa gets moved? Didn’t he almost go to San Diego last year?
saucy:
I’m a little concerned about Marquez and IPK. If Marquez joins the team, I don’t want IPK to be, um, distracted.
http://www.allisonandian.com/v.....bumcount=7
Horne should stay a starter. He has a bunch of good pitches and stamina. Between White and Ohlendorf, whoever comes up with a good splitter first should get a shot at the 8th inning till Melancon is ready.
Ian’s lady is hot. Nice work Ian!!!
Adam,
I hope that Horne may be able to fill the 8th inning role joba did.
He’s already 25 and has great stuff. The main concern with him as a reliever – would his control be good enough, particularly coming in with men on base?
He walked 3.3/9 – that’s high and may be a problem as a reliever.
Command is always supposed to be the last thing that returns after TJ surgery. Horne was much, much better with his command last season than the one before so hopefully he’s still on the upslope with that.
If so he’d could be outstanding in the pen. They won’t come anywhere close to finding an arm that talented on the free agent market.
Igawa could be effective as a bullpen guy. Emphasis on could. He certainly showed the ability to strike people out and make them miss. However, he also showed quite an ability to walk people he shouldn’t. Maybe, maybe-not.
Hopefully he’s been working on keeping the ball down. That high junk won’t cut it in the MLB.
how about a trade of melky and tabata for linecum or cain?both have a tremendous upside over rios
Please don’t sign Vizcaino.
id argue the relative hotness of ms.kennedy. maybe im just not into 6ft tall baller chicks.
wedding pic is nice, Ian seems to be pointing at the reason he probably married her:
http://www.doubleazone.com/ima.....edding.jpg
Phil,
If Horne is ready for the majors there’s not a lot of benefit to keeping him in the minors.
He’s not a young prospect – he’s 25. The yankee rotation has 6 viable guys if they don’t pull off a trade.
Even if there’s an injury to the top 6 horne still may not get a chance to start in the majors.
It’s better to use his talent at the major league level if he’s ready.
As long as the yankees have wang/ chamberlain/ IPK/ hughes the rotation is going to be very crowded. They need to be flexible with some of their talented arms, particularly the older ones like Horne and McCutcheon.
Jonathan Albaladejo
the most comprehensive info on him I’ve seen yet – from a former coach of his.
http://emedia.thetimes-tribune.....fault.aspx
Melky’s upside isn’t on the same continent as Rios. I understand that we all see Melky more and we like him a super lot and all that, but on his best day, he’s still well shy of Alex Rios.
CB- I think, get some innings into him at AAA. call him up later. Like Joba.
Igawa’s best performance of the year was out of the pen. Bonus points for the first person to remember what game it was.
the guys at river avenue blues did a terrific write up of albaladejo as well.
http://riveraveblues.com/2007/.....lbaladejo/
Rusty-
She’s a solid 7.5. Could be worse, could be better. You don’t blame that marriage on alcohol or anything.
CB -
damn he’s fat…. El Gigante!
Adam,
I agree. They are going to need him next year – either bull pen or injuries – i hope he can fill the role in the pen.
They were very, very cautious with him last year. He really didn’t need to stay in AA for so long but I guess it wound up as a good thing. He tired at the end of the year and would have gotten hit around worse at Scranton.
The yankee pitching development guys in the minors are terrific. Hopefully they can get him ready for the pen like they did with joba.
Where do these people come up with trade idea like Melky, Tabata for Linecum?
Trading is a lot like shopping. If you’re shopping at the Yankees, you’re shopping for pitching, cuz that’s what we have. If we’re making a big trade, especially FOR pitching, it’ll be for some of our pitching prospects, not our position guys.
Those IPK pics are hilarious
CB – interesting that one article says his slider is great and its his out pitch. the other says its average and the yanks will probably have him scrap it.
Boston Dave,
Yeah. He’s a big boy. Having him and Chris Britton in the pen together would be a hoot!
I’ve never seen him. But off the bat one thing I absolutely love – he does not walk anyone. At every level he’s ever pitched he’s been at he’s never walked people.
That was the worse thing about the yankees pen last year – infuriating – farns, bruney, even proctor.
Also – two hosts on WFAN who are mets fans saw him throw against the mets – they were very high on him.
She’s a solid 7.5. Could be worse, could be better. You don’t blame that marriage on alcohol or anything.
~Adam:
LOL. You have the unforgiving eye of an MLB talent scout.
Can you imagine if thousands of strangers were rating our wives or girlfriends? YIKES!
Lincecum for Melky and tabata was one of the worse trade proposals i’ve heard this off season (saying a lot).
Could you imagine Brian Sabaen explaining that one?
Maybe this is a post for a different kind of blog, but, although it’s kind of neat to see IPK’s personal photos, do you think they expected a few thousand of their closest friends (Yankee fans) to not only view them, but make crude remarks about Mrs. IPK. Yes, it is crude to rate someone’s wife.
The internet is a wonderful thing, but this is an example of why people need to be careful about what they put out there.
Sorry for the sort of off-topic rant, but it just didn’t seem nice. And remember boys, this blog is co-ed.
Hopefully both of our heavyweights in the pen (Britton and Alba*) get a solid shot to make the team next season. I don’t know that I can do another year of Vizcaino and Bruney and all the other high walk guys.
Weird that we were writing about the same thing at the same time, CB. High five!
CB,
He missed a bunch of time to injury, so I’m not worried about his age. I’ll just pretend he was off in WW II like Warren Spahn who also didn’t get it going in the majors till age 25. He’s not even on the 40 yet, so, I’d just as soon he keep starting at AAA. Hopefully he can be added to the 40 at some point and be used to pick up some starts for Phil and Joba and get his feet wet this year.
Adam–
I generally agree, but the Giants are looking for big bats, supposedly. They’re willing to trade good young pitching for young hitters. That’s why they’re considering Rios for Linecum. I don’t think the Yankees have anyone (other than Cano) who would fit the Giants needs. Mainly, a young hitter with emerging power.
Rios will be an all-star soon. Tabata is too young to get that deal done, in my opinion. But I think that Cashman should at least engage the Giants.
Doreen,
I agree. I could personally care less about Kennedy’s wife or Posada’s or anyone’s.
I really don’t care about their personal lives at all.
I like discussing baseball here. That’s it.
What if they stomp puppies on off days? You’d have to care about that, no?
I totally agree, Doreen.
Offer the Giants, Giambi and Pavano.
Giambi: Power Bat, veteran first baseman, who needs DH in the NL, plus he will crush the balls into the Bay. Bonds might return now!
Pavano: Never gets injured, solid pitcher in return for a young arm. His injuries might distract them from Giambi and Bonds.
Pavano and Giambi for Lincecum. Fire up the phones Cash.
The Yanks thinks El Gigante’s Slider is gonna be a good out pitch.
Thomo
I have seen Albaladejo pitch. He is big, throws in low 90′s but most importantly has great control- seemed to rarely walk anyone.
I think it was a good pick-up.
anyone feel the sox will get johan? or the yanks? mets?
Doreen:
You’re right. I was trying to get the same point across, albeit just a little differently.
If the Sox get Santana, I am going to be so furious..
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/ne.....;type=lgns
We can’t afford Santana.. yeah, alright whatever.
This team has made many poor moves, we cannot deny that. But this one is going to be one of their worst of all time.
All of you under the notion, “we can’t base what we do, on what boston does” … we’ll then you are a moron, If you were selling a similar product as your leading competitor.. and you knew there product was about to get MUCH better.. you damn well better get it together and focus on what they’re doing.
for what it’s worth…. from mlbtraderumors…
Johan Santana Rumors: Wednesday
UPDATE, 12-5-07 at 7:50pm: Tim Brown says the Red Sox had a moment of doubt, but they remain the frontrunner for Santana. The previously mentioned packages apply.
Phil,
I know he was injured. The age issue has nothing to do with how good a prospect I think he is.
He’s physically matured. He’s been successful two different major colleges.
He’s the kind of guy – if he’s ready, he’s ready. His stuff should translate well to the pen.
He doesn’t need more refinement as a starter. He throws 4 very good pitches. He doesn’t need to work on developing his game like other guys in the minors.
The yanks are going to have glaring holes in the pen. I just don’t see how you keep a guy who has that much talent in the minors just because there’s no room in the rotation.
Hopefully the yankees won’t have room in the rotation for the next 5 years with Wang/Joba/IPK/ Hughes.
They have an enormous need. He’s mature, pitched 2 full seasons after TJ, throws 4 pitches and hits 92-95 touching 97. He’s also part of the reason they didn’t get santana.
There’s no way a guy like Chris Britton or Edwar Ramirez are anywhere near as good.
If they are going to hold onto young talent they need to use it.
The alternative is to waste money on the La Troy Hawkins of the world.
i still dont understand why we cant go after johan and try and get boston’s offer up while we’re at it
arghhh
Jon,
We can’t afford him because Cashman blew so much money on IGAWA last year. Why does he still have a job? (Cashman)
honestly, i dont want haren and it seems bedard may be just as pricey as johan. johan seems to be the one. i know hughes is really good, but we need to keep johan away from the sox. at this point, if boston gets johan, the yanks may not see the postseason for a few years with johan and beckett
We can’t afford not to have Santana..
But even less than that..
We cannot afford not to have Santana but Boston does.
Cant’ wait for the next brawl between the yanks and sox; imagine seeing Alba, Bruney, Britton, and Farnsworth pounding Ortiz into a spam can.
i cant stand when the yanks say they cant afford people, they seem to be alright signing an aging closer.im not knocking rivera but he’s 38 people. ps. i am a big rivera fan, but bringing him back for 15 mil a year is crazy
Has anyone else reached the point of not caring?
Not to mention the deal Boston has put together for Santana is ridiculously weak. It will be a steal if it goes through.
“UPDATE, 12-5-07 at 7:50pm: Tim Brown says the Red Sox had a moment of doubt, but they remain the frontrunner for Santana. The previously mentioned packages apply.”
I read that Tim Brown story. He’s consistently been wrong about this trade every single time. He called it as a done deal a couple of days ago.
He was definitely going to the sox according to brown. It sounds like he’s leaking information from the sox.
What kind of sources would the yahoo sports guy have?
It´s “Al-ba-la-da-ho” (not day). It´s a Spanish name, and that´s my main language
Mike R.
Not Caring is like saying, “I don’t care if the Yankee’s win or lost next year”, so to answer your questions..
No!
But I can see how some people have been really let-down about it and have become complacent.
i just hope the sox dont get johan and by the looks of it, they may not. who knows at this point? i am done listening to espn coverage cause steve phillips is a bum who doesnt know anything about baseball for a GM
I think we are fine where we are, we made the playoffs last year and with a “year” under the bealts of joba, phil and ian, they could be better than last year, what is different from our team? oh we lost Roger, thats sure gonna make a difference. If we can improve our bullpen we should be set to go. If our Big 3 could make it down the stretch last year, why can’t they do that this year? I like trade we made, Clippard wasn’t going anywhere. If we can make just one more trade/signing for the bullpen, we i think will have a solid chance of making the playoffs. Sure the Tigers got a lot better, but did the Indians? And I am a Yankee fan, and I am one that wants to win the world series every year, everyone does, but if Santana goes to the Redsox, the yankees have better prospects to trade for future pitchers, they also have the better future with 3 under 24 year olds in the rotation. I’m just glad Torre isn’t here to work their horses in the bullpen.
So in the longrun, good job cash
nice work cash
Is Cash EVER going to be concerned with pitching?? He treats bullpen pitchers on the same level of concern as he does the back up infielder. Last year he had the same attitude with we have alot of inhouse people, you know the AAAAAAAAA players. How did that work last year?? Right now they have 1 person in the bullpen who can get people out..Mo. Also the bullpen right now consists of 2 people. No Santana, no bullpen. Over spend on Arod and now Cash and Hank are claiming there is no money left. Cash should of signed Viz and Riske. They need to have Mo, 2 other pitchers in the bullpen (not name Farns) and then give the AAAAAA players a chance to fill the last spot or spots.
Mike R –
Not so much “not care” as just about completely overloaded on it!
I’ll never understand why Igawa didn’t go to a Fall Instructional League to iron out his control problems even for 2 weeks.
and cashman isnt too far behind, he’s made some really dumb moves, kevin brown, randy johnson, carl pavano…
ESPN’s Steve Phillips believes the Orioles would get Rich Hill and Sean Marshall in a Brian Roberts trade with the Cubs.
Of course coming from his mouth doesnt mean that much.
If he lands with the Red Sox I will most definitely care, but I have lost all interest in following all of the speculation and contradicting stories. It’s tiring. I care alot if the Yankees win. I am even in the minority that thinks we can win even if Johan lands in bean town.
They can afford him, they’re simply saying they can’t because Cashman doesn’t want to trade Hughes. He also knows if he gives that as the honest reason all of you reactionary dummies pounce on him for not being Johan after his first bad outing in 2008.
Chofo – De donde eres?
The Yankees should play the bosux game and at least pretend to stay in it to drive the price up for the bosux. Now that Cash got Hank to pull PH off the table, I doubt he is going back on. The only way they do a deal is if the Twins realize that IPK > Lester or Ellsbury. Which he is but they won’t.
Noone will want to touch the Yankees bullpen, or Pedro Martinez, the Yankees have a massive combined weight in that bullpen… what is our bullpens rally techinque going to be this year. Boston has the tapping, I think we should keep eating.
I could not have put it better myself.
All i am saying is if we dont make the trade and hughes never pans out to be an ace or 2 starter, i will be angry
Please do not call Jonathan Albaladejo ‘Alba’. There is no need to put a completely different picture with that name. Come on!!! Alby, please….
Reality Check-
The Yankees should play the bosux game and at least pretend to stay in it to drive the price up for the bosux. Now that Cash got Hank to pull PH off the table, I doubt he is going back on. The only way they do a deal is if the Twins realize that IPK > Lester or Ellsbury. Which he is but they won’t.
I absolutely agree, whats the harm in driving up the pricetag? hank speaks a little too much. he should have stayed under the radar like the sox have been
They must have a really good tanning salon at that hotel. Phillips looks like he was in the oven too long, no wonder why his brain is fried.
Can anyone guess Santana’s ERA against the AL East over the last three years?
Less than 10.00?
s.c.
December 5th, 2007 at 9:38 pm
“Cant’ wait for the next brawl between the yanks and sox; imagine seeing Alba, Bruney, Britton, and Farnsworth pounding Ortiz into a spam can.”
So tell me s.c., which is larger? Your waist size or your IQ? I’m guessing they are about the same.
“and cashman isnt too far behind, he’s made some really dumb moves, kevin brown, randy johnson, carl pavano…”
If it weren’t for Cashman this organization would be an absolute mess.
Cashman understood earlier than most the impact that the luxury tax/ revenue sharing would have on the game –
More medium market teams would be able to sign their guys to long term deals. In turn less talent would hit the free agent market. So even if you have cash to spend its not going to help.
This has been the story of the Met over the past 3 years. They have little shot at a santana or bedard becasue they don’t have the cheap high talent prospects to trade.
Also, more teams would compete in the free agent market for the talent that was there – see the KC Royals.
When Cashman finally got control of the organization he focused it on something they hadn’t done since the 1950′s – develop their own young talent.
He’s the one who changed the direction of the organization. He did it just in time. Because now more and more people are realizing the financial benefits of developing their own talent.
To that end – Omar Minaya has hinted he’s going to start paying over slot to draft better players.
please, i really dislike cashman
re tigers:
Magglio is good, really good, but he will never, ever be 2007 good ever again
Sheffield is set to do one thing next year, and thats to hit 20 homeruns. Does sheffield seem like the player that would keep going after he achive a personal milestone?
Cabrerra is good bat, but not an upgrade on defense at 3b, read neyer’s column on how its not a HUGE gain, its an upgrade, but not a huge one
Placido Polanco….solid bat but wont be as good as in 08 as he was in 07
Ivan Rodriguez 294OBP….
Jacque Jones, Melkyesque
Carlos Guillen in decline
Curtis Granderson…snoooze, ok he aint that bad
And now their pitching, a staff that includes kenny rogers and dontrelle willis….
This team isnt that good. It reminds me of those mets teams that were suppose to be good but werent. This team isnt all that good…ok its good, but its not the monster that everyone is talking about
I am glad Colter Bean is gone because with Alby, Britton and Bean fans would be at risk of being eaten. Some big boys…maybe the yanks need to reinvigorate the workout regimines or have a weight watchers training table available.
Yes. Less then half of that.
CB,
I’d rather go with the failed starters like Ohlendorf and White in the pen, and maybe Marquez as a swing man before asking Horne to become a reliever. I see him as Pettitte’s eventual replacement for 2009.
Jonathan Albaladejo
Can’t we just call him J-Alb from now on.
CB – Uh they developed some decent core talent in the early 90s right? I mean Jeter, Pettitte, Mariano, Posada, Bernie…that group didn’t totally suck did they??
Jo, whether you agree with Cash or not, you can’t possibly dislike him. He has staked his job on not trading PH when virtually every other GM would take advantage of Hank’s willingness to spend and do the safe thing– for his job– and get JS. Now, I am with you on not wanting him to got to the hellhole where I unfortunately live, but you have to respect the guy for doing what he thinks is right for the club. Plus, he is just a good guy. He often goes out and plays basketball with the kids who live around the stadium. Gotta love that.
I mean Jon, not Jo. Someday I’ll learn to type.
Hurray for bullpen focus!
I know the Yankee brass is optimistic about Fransworth, but who here isn’t going to be holding their breath with every pitch?
#9
His nickname in the minors has been Alby. That’s fine by me.
Im THRILLED cash is holding onto the kids.
Cash has done a good job at getting good scouts involved in the draft and getting the farm system going again. But an awful job in the pitching department. Offense is still more important to the Yanks then pitching is. He never signs any relievers and he hasn’t signed 1 good starting pitcher in years!!!
to the clueless fool who thinks the tigers won’t be good, just watch them this season. they are LOADED.
“Igawa’s best performance of the year was out of the pen. Bonus points for the first person to remember what game it was.”
Mike R.:
I remember the Game well!. Its was around the end of April against the Sawx. I was at The Stadium with friends. We just sat down, Karstens threw his first pitch to Lugo and BOOM! down went Jeff! Karstens threw one more pitch and couldn’t continue. Igawa came in a shutdown the Red Sox for 6 innings and the Yankees won 3-1 with Mo saving it. Yankees had lost something like 6-7 in a row before that victory.
“And now their pitching, a staff that includes kenny rogers and dontrelle willis….”
I agree. They scored 867 runs last year. Offense was not their problem, at all.
Losing Joel Zumaya for the season is a bigger loss for them than adding more offense.
I think it was a very good trade for the Tigers – Cabrera is such a unique talent and he’s so young.
But if Bonderman and Rogers aren’t much better and if that pen is still that bad they are going to have troubles again.
But they will score a lot of runs.
Kei Igawa makes the baby Jesus cry.
The Tigers are definitely a threat..
Their bullpen is a question mark though, I think.
i dont hate the guy, i dont agree with many of his deals
“Kei Igawa makes the baby Jesus cry”
classic
pitching wins championships. as much as i like a posada or an arod, we need an ace and as good as wang and pettite are, they are not on the same level as an ace. now whether or not you go out and trade for an ace, you cant sit idly and watch boston grab two
The Yankees hired a former Red Sox player.
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/.....0/1071/SPT
LathamJoe – Correct sir!! That must have been an incredible game to go to. I was jumping out of my seat watching it from home.
That game conviinced me that Igawa’s biggest hurdle is psychological. He went into that game without a chance to think, and just pitched.
The Yankees SP last year outside of Wang and Pettite was 31-31 with an ERA of 5.21 and an average 5.1 innings a start. Hughes, Chamberlain and Kennedy don’t have to be all that great for the Yankees to be a vastly improved team.
You guys will cry next year when we finish 10+ games under Boston (if they land Santana) not thinking that this is probable is one thing, but thinking that it is not possible is absolutely overly optimistic.
Did everyone who “just has to have Santana” seem to forget that minus the injuries in the 1st 2 months of the season, the Yankees would have beaten the Sox cold and won the Division ?
Was it me or was our lineup not hitting in the beginning of the season, minus Arod and Posada, for 2 months !!! Injuries didn’t help either.
Did the same lineup hit very well in the playoffs ?
We did little to help our own cause with our offense.
Has Wang ever pitched as bad as he did in his 2 playoff games ? Even 1 good start changes the outcome of the playoffs.
I for one can’t see paying ANY pitcher for 6-7 years and 150 million dollars. Too much can go wrong. Maybe, just maybe, we can utilize the bullpen better with Girardi and use some of our own guys rather than buying some more mysteries at outlandish prices. There are many young guys we already have that can get the job done utilized properly.
What Cashman and Girardi should insist on is that our players come to spring training in the best shape they can be in and not have to wait for half the season for them to “be ready” to play at their full potential. That is the biggest travesty of the season, not being ready to play at optimum performance levels.
We didn’t even expect to be in the playoffs the way the start of the season played out and because of that, we were stressed out just trying to get there. We were lucky to even be in the playoffs. We didn’t get beaten, we beat ourselves.
Not for anything, but the things being said about the Red Sox offer puzzles me. The offering is the same frickin’ thing that they have been putting out there all along, why would that make the Twins weaken?
I think the Sox are blufffing and hoping that the Yankees get back into it.
And who really knows what the Yankees are planning? Maybe its nothing, or maybe they are being stealthy about it. They might prefer doing this under the radar.
I agree with the last few posts by people.. The lineup will mash, the SP will be much improved..
The one thing we really need to focus on still, is the Bullpen.. I think we all know that..
vinny
Ron Guidry said Wang needed to make adjustments
bskul – Yes the Tigers are loaded, but what depth do they have? None. They sold the farm to compete this year and any injuries will pound them. They are taking a big risk to win it this season.
Dlev – GREAT stats. That’s the kind of thing I like to read.
Jon, so I guess you thought Pettitte pitched a poor game in his post season start? I’d take that from any pitcher in the post season.
Apoint, exactly my point going back to what I said about Cashman and Johan. He could of pulled the trigger on any deal he wanted, but didn’t. The Tigers won’t be able to make any trades for a long time. Yankees are in good shape.
Mike R.
The Stadium was electric. You’re absolutely right – Igawa had no time to think about his start, which was key to his success that day. As I recall, however, the Red Sox batters really helped him out by swinging at many pitches out of the strike zone and Igawa really had them off stride with his change. also remember being very nervous in the 9th when Mo came on, especially after his 2-3 shaky outings beforehand.
fleas it is meds time…
really we understand you opinion, that the yanks need ot do anythingpossible, pay any amount, and trade any good player, to get the messiah…
since if they get johan they are guaranteed what???
And you think Hank has a big mouth…
http://blogs.jsonline.com/brew.....to-go.aspx
“CB – Uh they developed some decent core talent in the early 90s right? I mean Jeter, Pettitte, Mariano, Posada, Bernie…that group didn’t totally suck did they??”
That was a great group. But bringing up good young players didn’t last very long did it? The organization didn’t make a full committment to developing talent in a systematic way – the organization didn’t change – george just left and that gave gene michael enough room to hand onto the best players they had.
That worked becasue they could complement it with free agent signings (jimmy key) and trading for player whose teams wanted to dump get rid of their contracts (ex. dave justice)
In particular they’re drafting was still awful. Probably the worst in baseball.
Here is a list of their top draft picks from the year george was suspended to the wordl series in 2001 after which that core started to break up.
It’s horrendous:
John-Ford Griffin OF - 2001
Dave Parrish C
David Walling P
Andy Brown OF
Tyrell Godwin OF
Eric Milton P
Shea Morenz OF
Brian Buchanan
Matt Drews P
Derek Jeter SS
Brien Taylor P
Carl Everrett OF – 1990
They drafted more talent in the 2004 draft alone than in all of those drafts combined, excluding jeter.
What Cashman has done now in terms of domestic and international scouting and player development is entirely different.
I think some of Wang’s problems, aside from the fingernail issue was Guidry.
I love Guidry, but I don’t think he was the right man to be pitching coach. Notice how Hughes did once Eiland was up? Hughes improved with each outing after he came up. Eiland talked about how he saw things right away that were wrong with Hughes delivery.
Given that Guidry was there that whole time, why didn’t he pick up on it?
I think Eiland is simply the better fit for pitching coach. I have a feeling that he will get Wang back to form.
speaking of bullpens…what’s the story with JB Cox? is he fully recovered yet?
Re: Cashman:
I can’t believe people think he’s doing a bad job. 12 straight years in the playoffs. If want a bad management, look at MSG or the White House.
Just reading about it gives me chills. That day really messed with my head with regards to Igawa. Knowing that potential is there makes it hard for me to give up on him. I think the bullpen could suit him. Let him focus on two main pitches. Call me an optimist.
Injuries really have ravaged this team the last 3 years. If the Yanks can stay healthy, they will have a good chance of winning the division even if Satana goes to Boston.
Sounds like Tony LaRussa is drinking again.
I’m pretty sure Cashman is hatching something. An none of us will predict it either. And he’s a good GM and doesn’t do his trade negotiations through the media.
are the yankees looking at any relief options?
27 for 27, whatever the case was, he never has pitched as poorly as he did in the playoffs. We know he can win with 38 wins in 2 years to show for it.
All I’m saying is we could have won the Division handily if we played well in the beginning of the year, with much less stress on the team as a whole. The team had to play much harder to get to the playoffs and were burnt out by the time the playoffs started. We could do little to help ourcelves and couldn’t get out of our own way.
mike r-
after seeing that video of LaRussa drunk and sleeping in his SUV in the middle of a highway, I don’t think I can ever think of him as a balanced, respectable person again
I really don’t get how anyone could complain about the Yankees honestly.
Could you imagine being a Pirates fan? Since the Yankees started this glorius run in the early-mid-90′s they have been the best team in baseball bar-none.
No other team in baseball can reasonably say they have been as successful as the recent Yankees. Yet guys like Fleas ocme on here and complain all day as if they Yankees haven’t made the playoffs in 20+ years. It’s really ridiculous, and if the Yankees anger some of you so much you should really go root for another team.
You think Boston wouldn’t trade their 2 championships in the last 4 years for the Yankees run since 1994?
Quite interesting quotes by Mr. Larussa in the “Rolen has to go”
article.
I hope Tony is not driving tonight!
jonnycat December 5th, 2007 at 10:26 pm
mike r-
after seeing that video of LaRussa drunk and sleeping in his SUV in the middle of a highway, I don’t think I can ever think of him as a balanced, respectable person again
LMAO. Too true
Fleas-
Don’t forget that last years Yankee team was 51-25 in the 2nd half & they have virtually the same roster.
C’mon people. LaRussa got ONE DUI. ONE. Everybody gets one.
And so what if he fell asleep in his car in the middle of the freeway. Who hasn’t!??
Jonathon “All-but-da-kitchen-sink-ajo”!
dat’s what I tink!
are there any other options beyond mahay and viz
A-point,
Hughes only pitched a couple of games under Guidry before he got hurt and was out most of the season. You can’t lay that on Guidry. Eiland saw more of Hughes at minor league level so he knew him better. Didn’t Hughes almost pitch the no hitter under Guidry ??? It had nothing to do with the way he was handled by Guidry. Eiland had just seen more of all the younger guys and knew more about them.
Gotta agree with Phil on Alan Horne. The dude has a plus two seamer, a plus four seamer, a plus curve(can be unhittable at times) and a plus slider, along with a decent changeup. That is four really good pitches; he would be wasted in the pen. I’d take Horne over the current version of Mike Mussina any day of the week.
I haven’t. I don’t know about you, but I am considerate enough with my fellow drivers to take the right lane of the freeway when I pass out drunk. Everyone know that is the right thing to do.
Jon
Looking to resign Vizcaino
They are in on talks with Ron Mahay
Rumored to be interested in trading with the Pirates for Damaso Marte
They were interested in Troy Percival…but he signed with the Rays
thanks, who would we give up for marte?
stuart, your right I need meds because your opinions are not fallible and your obviously in such a ‘higher class’ than the rest of us. I’m envious of your ever so wonderful insight and brilliance. (P.S. There is a thing called a spacebar right in front of you)
Others:
I’m not saying this team is bad.. I never did.
I’m saying that as long as Boston doesn’t wind up getting Santana.. I am not too worried, although I would much rather have Santana than Hughes/Melky
If you don’t think Boston obtaining Santana, and with what Detroit just did with Willis/Cabrera.. has any impact on are all-star team… you are making a big mistake.
Stuart, you have tried to insult me three times in the past 2 days… but really your posting is absolutely benign, sorry if I don’t share the same opinion as you but have it be known I have wanted a proven ace (Santana) in pinstripes for the last 4 years..
“And so what if he fell asleep in his car in the middle of the freeway. Who hasn’t!??”
Reminds me of the Richard Pryor routine where he says:
The are somethings they never teach you in driving school: Like what to do when you wake up behind the wheel of a car going 100 mph down the freeway.
I think we’re using the words “plus” and “upside” too much.
My girlfriend has a plus-backside with upside potential.
THat sounds pretty good actually.
Stuart, my pal..
“really we understand you opinion, that the yanks need ot do anythingpossible, pay any amount, and trade any good player, to get the messiah…”
Uhm, I want Santana bad yes.. I admit it. But to belittle my opinion like your attempt here.. well that just goes to show me what you bring to the table.. great debate champ.
Phil, Ian & Joba will combine to win 40-42 games next season….It will be the lowest total the three will ever comine together ever again….Of course the need to stay relatively healthy…Within 3 years their win totals will be the best in MLB……They’re that good…..
fleas-
I’m saying that as long as Boston doesn’t wind up getting Santana.. I am not too worried, although I would much rather have Santana than Hughes/Melky
If you don’t think Boston obtaining Santana, and with what Detroit just did with Willis/Cabrera.. has any impact on are all-star team… you are making a big mistake.
Stuart, you have tried to insult me three times in the past 2 days… but really your posting is absolutely benign, sorry if I don’t share the same opinion as you but have it be known I have wanted a proven ace (Santana) in pinstripes for the last 4 years..
- i agree, you make some good points. nice job.
Are you lookin’ for trouble Mike R? You think you’re better than me?
LOL. Don’t drink and blog kids.
By the way Pete, when is the Blog Christmas party. I can’t wait to show off my plus-drinking skills.
Jon
Well the Pirates were very interested in Cabrera last winter when Mike Gonzalez was mentioned before goingto the Braves.
Im not sure…perhaps a Darrell Rasner for their rotation???That is just a guess on my part…I havent heard any names yet.
Pat M,
What’s your feeling on the trade not going through? I know you were very mixed but thought the Santana trade had to be done.
I’m fine with Santana staying in Minnesota.
I don’t know if they are going to put Phil on the table again. Cashman was talking in the papers how he felt that he was trading away a future Cy Young award winner who could haunt the yankees for the next decade plus.
Adam – I would never tell you that I think I’m better than, because that’s not a nice thing to do.
“My girlfriend has a plus-backside with upside potential.
THat sounds pretty good actually.”
Ok, now, that was the funniest thing I’ve read today.
You win the thread. Pete, post again and let’s have another round!
Adam
Very funny post about “plus” and upside…..LOL
Vinny 5743 The point I was making was that Guidry didn’t see what Hughes was doing wrong AFTER he came back. There were a lot of people who were saying there were things with his delivery that were off and wrong since coming back up.
I am not laying all the blame on Guidry for Hughes performance when he came back, a good deal of it was that he was still recovering from it.
The real thing to think about though was how quickly Hughes was improving once Eiland came up. There was a linear improvement that you saw. Do you credit the change on Guidry or Eiland? Obviously the Yankees weren’t convinced that Guidry was the right guy for pitching coach because he was going to be gone, that was before the whole Torre thing.
“Phil Miller of the St. Paul Pioneer Press is also chiming in, saying that after talking to Twins GM Bill Smith, he’s “more convinced than ever that Johan Santana will be traded next week, or next month, but not today or tomorrow.”
And so it goes on and on. How many times can you discuss the same trade package? Starting to sound more and more like a Boston Bluff.
Santana or no Santana, if I wake up tomorrow – I’ll still be a Yankee Fan.
Good night!
I want to take this time to officially start my campaign.
IPK4ROY!!
Buy your bumper stickers, T-shirts and Baseball caps soon.
Let me restate, without using the word “plus.”
Mike Mussina = bad
Alan Horne and 4 good to great pitches = good
“The real thing to think about though was how quickly Hughes was improving once Eiland came up. There was a linear improvement that you saw. Do you credit the change on Guidry or Eiland?”
Well, there’s also the fact that Phil was getting his legs back under him and regaining some lost velocity. Let’s not forget that.
As for relief options, Yanks were in on Percival and Riske. Percival wanted to close and get a 2 year deal. The Yanks can’t offer the former, and the latter is really unwise, given his injury history.
As for Riske…his deal has bonuses that kick in should he start closing game that give him closer money. The Yanks could offer him a 3 year deal at closer-dollars, I guess…but you really want them to throw like…3/22 at one reliever?
A-Point
Phil Hughes CAME BACK FROM A HAMSTRING AND ANKLE INJURY. That’s what he was doing wrong. His strength wasn’t all the way there. He’s 21 was probably babying it a little. If anyone’s ever come back from an injury, are they 100% right away? no.
When Phil came back he was too good for AAA and we needed a starter. His command and velocity were off, but he was still pretty decent. GREAT in Game 3 you could argue.
What was Guidry to do?
Vinny
I agree completely that the Yanks were a bit burned out in the postseason. Also the end of the regular season. It wouldn’t have been that hard to pass Boston and have played the Angels. Torre decided not to go for it–remember the game Friday where he started the second string before we were eliminated from first place. He may have gauged his team accurately, but it was frustrating the way everything turned out.
It seemed to me that Wang had to pitch up because they weren’t swinging at his sinker down. Guidry said he will need to make adjustments. I’m sure he will do that.
Putting Alan Horne in the bullpen now doesn’t mean he has to stay there permanently.
The question on him is whether he’s ready to pitch in the majors.
He’s not a 21-22 year old just out of college. He has a nice repertoire of pitches.
If he’s ready to challenge major league hitters how long do you want to keep him in the minors?
Petite has said he wants to pitch in the new stadium. That’s not a definite but you don’t know if they may sign Sabbathia or Santana next off season. They what? Keep Horne in the minors another season? Yes injuries could happen.
But if he’s ready to face major league hitters he should be helping the team. He could start in the pen and transition to the rotation as needed like many pitchers have ex. Santana.
““Phil Miller of the St. Paul Pioneer Press is also chiming in, saying……”
I give a f@#!. Phil Miller better hope I don’t see him while I’m sleeping in my car on the freeway. He’s gonna get my plus-left hook and get a shiner with no upside.
I am sick to death of Johan Santana rumors!!!!! Who’s with me?
I say keep in AAA until the inevitable injury occurs and then bring him up.
I think Wang’s fingernail situation effected more than he let on.
I mean, I don’t mind if Horne pitches out of the ‘pen; I just think with a guy like him that the overall package is what get hitters out.
ME!!! MEEEE!!! DEAR GOD MEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wang certainly doesn’t have a plus-fingernail. No way you can be an ace without plus-fingernails and knuckles with upside.
Adam,
Johan who? Can we please forget about that guy?
I think the “shiner with no upside” is the coup de grace.
The only reason that switching Horne to the bullpen on a temporary basis ala Joba doesn’t make as much sense is because Horne doesn’t really have an innings cap. I would prefer to keep him as close to 200 IP as possible to avoid any possible future fatigue issues.
Wang’s hangnail and Mike Mussina for Pelfry. Who’s with me?
I’m not going to repeat the posts about Boston and the comparison to previous years and teams–I invoked the Oakland A’s of 2000-1, the Atlanta Braves of the late 90s, and the Seattle Mariners of 2001, as well as the past three AL Champions–that I did last night. Suffice to say, anyone who thinks the Yankees should throw in the towel if Boston gets Santana is…well, needs to calm down and look at the situation with an ice-cold eye.
In short, best-case scenario, Santana improves Boston by…say, five games. I think anything higher than that would require one helluva season, which would in turn be incredibly optimistic. Boston wasn’t even a 100-win team last season (run-differential they were around 98), so it’s not going to be an impossible team to beat. “But they’ll have two aces in the playoffs!” you’ll say. “But so did Cleveland!” I’ll say, “And Boston still beat them!”
…and so on, and so forth.
—
As for Cashman signing a reliever…you have to be kidding, right? Free agent relief pitching deals don’t work out, or is everyone conveniently forgetting the Kyle Farnsworth signing? How about the Steve Karsay signing earlier in the decade? Cashman is absolutely doing the right thing by throwing some young, live arms from the Yankee farm system into the bullpen and seeing if any stick. That’s what the Dodgers have been doing the last couple of years, and say what you want about their hitting, but that bullpen has been absolutely fantastic for it.
There’s no such thing as a quick free-agent fix anymore. Trying to get pitching off the free agent market is suicide, and 9 times out of 10 (especially moving forward) will net you, at best, a No. 3 or No. 4 starter for more than $10 million a year. You could conceivably take a gamble on a Colon or a Pedro (c. 2009), but (a) that’s a unique circumstance, and (b) the likelihood of someone like that putting together a healthy, ace-like season is remote, otherwise they wouldn’t be available for that kind of cash.
Remember, Barry Zito, a No. 2 starter *at best* (though he looks like a No. 3 starter even in the NL), picked up a contract valued over $100 million.
Cashman has so far picked up one pretty decent reliever in a trade for a spare part; he picked up another last year (Chris Britton), but unfortunately he never got a chance at the ML-level (despite having a pretty good season for the O’s in 2006). Bullpen arms are inherently unpredictable; there aren’t many who stay good season-to-season-to-season. Even some of the best closers (see Eric Gagne) can break down and fall off the face of the earth.
I mean, what more do you want him to do regarding the bullpen?
“I say keep in AAA until the inevitable injury occurs and then bring him up.”
They already have six starters, not counting the Karstens and Rasners and Igawas. If Horne looks like he can help the MLB pen out of ST, do it. If he looks like his command isn’t there, have him start at AAA to work on it. It’d also be nice to see him working through lineups that are more patient. You can always transition him to the pen later.
Fu*k Karstens, Rasner and Igawa.
Makes you wonder what Wang is doing with his fingernail. COuld that be why his ball sinks so much? Maybe Wang does have a plus-fingernail….
whozat, I fully understand that point as well, however think about how Hughes was pitching shortly before Eiland was brought up. It was almost painful to watch him struggling at times. His ERA was climbing, his control wasn’t there, his fastball wasn’t as fast.
Obviously it wasn’t all Guidry’s fault, but Guidry wasn’t able to help Hughes with those problems. Eiland came up, and a couple of weeks later Hughes fastball was getting better, his command was better. Most of Hughes problems started with his hamstring and ankle, it changed his mechanics. Guidry couldn’t seem to get it turned right again.
I think of what had gone on with the pitching staff last season. Wang after his fingernail problem just couldn’t seem to quite keep it together. Mussina had his meltdown. Hughes had his problems. While all aren’t going on Guidry’s back, some does. The Yankee organization felt he wasn’t the right guy for the job. Guidry had stated how he would like to return. They gave Eiland the job.
Sometimes very talented people have a hard time with coaching in those positions because they had the talents at a high level and don’t quite understand the source of the problems. I think that describes Guidry.
He wasn’t horrible. However, he was just not getting things done quite right.
They’ll need two injuries before Horne comes up to pitch on the staff.
They aren’t just going to brush Mussina aside to call up alan horne unless Mussina is horrendous. They’ll give mussina time to make a number of starts.
With Pettite/Wang/ Hughes/ Joba/ IPK and then mussina on top there isn’t much room in the rotation at all.
There’s no sense in developing your system with good arms and then letting them pitch innings in the minors if they are ready for big league hitting if there are glaring needs in the pen.
If they are not brought up to fill those holes then they’ll get traded to do so.
It’ll be tough to see Edwar Ramirez continue to try to develop his fastball command in the majors or learn a third pitch with more accomplished starters dominating AAA hitters and just staying in the minors. Same thing with Ross Ohlendorf – still doesn’t have a good second pitch.
The bull pen is going to be very bad if they don’t get creative.
Good trade with the NACIONALES! Here is another good one for the Yanks to make:
KEI IGAWA to the Padres for two 26yr/old relievers – rhp Joseph Thatcher (1.29 era, 16k, 6bb, 0.9 whip) and lhp Wilfredo Ledezma (5.61era, 47k, 38bb, 1.82whip). Those two kids look good, and one is a lefty.
Gator didn’t get it done as a pitching coach. Still a great Yankee, though.
Jason Jones could be another bullpen canidate…although not on the 40 Man Roster yet….he was rumored to go to the bullpen while pitching in Trenton.He is a righty that has pitched in relief 11 times before 2007 season.
Scott Patterson is another canidate…he was recently added to the 40 Man Roster…and was excellent for Trenton this past yr setting up for the various closers that Trenton used (Pope,Whelan,Gardner)
“I mean, what more do you want him to do regarding the bullpen?”
You know exactly what they want. Cash should be signing everyone that had a good year last year, regardless of age, whether it was probably a fluke, or whether or not they want to be on the Yankees. And he should give them whatever it takes to sign them, and then trade them to the Royals for incredible prospects once they turn out to be horrible in a year. Oh, and if he can’t trade them, he should just cut them, regardless of how much money they’re making, because screw those guys!
CB,
Edwar doesn’t need a third pitch. He just needs to command his fastball. Same thing with Phil Hughes(assuming his fastball returns to his pre-injury velocity).
I really like Patterson. I think he could provide some solid middle relief at the big league level.
CB…Seeing Johan Santana in Pinstripes under the Christmas Tree would have been real nice….But the price / cost became really to expensive…..I thought Ian and Melky and a 2nd tier prospect would have been a high price, but he is the best on the planet….Putting Phil in there instead becane a steep price…As time went on I began to have serious second thoughts and doubts about the trade….I really and honestly believe in three years Phil, Ian & Joba will match Santana , Beckett & Dice-K in wins and effectivness….If this proves to be even close to being true, the non-trade of 07 will be widely praised…Oh Yeah, They’ll cost about 35 million less, give or take a few mil…..Johan goes FA, then you jump all over him…..But if Minn. comes back and will take Ian and parts, you really have to move on that…Hate to see him laeve, but at this time, the Yanks need to hang on to Phil…..Real tough call for Cashman….
Scott Patterson throws one pitch, a fastball. No thanks.
“By GEORGE KING Hank Steinbrenner today didn’t close the door entirely on trading for Johan Santana, but he didn’t give the Yankees much of a chance to revisit the deal. “I don’t rule anything out,” Steinbrenner said. “But I have a feeling he is going to be traded in the next couple of days.” Steinbrenner didn’t say what team was getting Santana.”
source: NY Post
“It seemed to me that Wang had to pitch up because they weren’t swinging at his sinker down. Guidry said he will need to make adjustments. I’m sure he will do that.”
I recall Mel Stottlemyre on WFAN’s Mike and the Moron the day after he was named Seattle Pitching Coach in October. He was asked about Wang’s performance in the Post Season against Cleveland. Mel felt that Wang’s “arm slot had been changed” which resulted in his ball ending up much higher in the strike zone – much more hittable.
I also remember earlier in August or Sept. Mussina had come back (after a few weeks off) to pitch 7 innings of effective baseball and he was asked what was the reason for his turnaround. He mentioned that “he and Mel” had discussed some pitching issues which helped him on the path back to pitching well again. Not a very strong endorsement for his (then)current PC, Guidry.
Perhaps some of these issues led to Guidry’s demise, together with the fact that the Big 3 and other SWB prospects would be pitching for the NYY in 2008.
“He wasn’t horrible. However, he was just not getting things done quite right.”
Oh, I like Eiland over Guidry. Don’t get me wrong. I’m just not really sure how much of Phil’s recovery you can ascribe to Eiland v. Guidry. Your overall point is taken, though.
Good trade with the NACIONALES! Here is another good one for the Yanks to make:
KEI IGAWA to the Padres for two 26yr/old relievers – rhp Joseph Thatcher (1.29 era, 16k, 6bb, 0.9 whip) and lhp Wilfredo Ledezma (5.61era, 47k, 38bb, 1.82whip). Those two kids look good, and one is a lefty.
OH, AND BY THE WAY, DO NOT SIGN VIZCAINO! He is getting older and pricey. Let him walk and get the draft pick next year.
“Scott Patterson throws one pitch, a fastball. No thanks.”
If he’s got a four seamer and a two seamer and he commands them, he can get guys out for an inning at a time, as long as he doesn’t get over-exposed by being the only late-innings guy new-joe trusts.
He’s worth a shot. He was cheap. He doesn’t pan out, send him packing.
Fleas, that doesn’t say a thing. Heck, it could mean that the Yankees pick him up in a trade.
If not, so be it. I am comfortable enough with what the Yankees have in their rotation.
whozat,
I don’t know if he throws both a four seamer and two seamer. All I do know is that his breaking stuff is non exsistent. That being said his fastball is nasty; he throws in a straight over the top motion and he is 6’7″, so it is tough for hitters to pick the pitch up(hence his ridiculous numbers in AA)
“What is the name of that other guy who has just one pitch… MARIANO RIVERA???”
“We have a lot of good young pitching in the minors — better than anybody, I guarantee you,†Steinbrenner said. “We’ve got the best young pitching in the majors and in the minors. It’s not even close. It’s pretty obvious, and we’re not the only ones who think so.â€
Asked a general question about young pitchers here Wednesday, Chicago Cubs Manager Lou Piniella turned the topic specific when he noticed the reporter was from New York.
“You’re talking about the Yankees, right?†Piniella said, laughing. “Send some of them over to Chicago. We’ll develop them.â€
Since Cashman re-signed, the Yankees have paid above-market bonuses for high-potential pitchers in the draft, even if they were coming off an injury. That is how they got Horne, the Eastern League pitcher of the year, who had reconstructive elbow surgery in college after Cleveland picked him in the first round out of high school.
The jewels of the farm system are Hughes, Joba Chamberlain and Ian Kennedy, who combined to go 8-3 with a 3.19 earned run average last season. All three could be in the rotation, and Steinbrenner says he believes their improvement is inevitable.
“People keep saying, ‘Do we really have a No. 1?’†Steinbrenner said. “I’m telling you, we’re going to have three No. 1’s three years from now, and we may have two or three great closer prospects, too.â€
Optimism is natural long before opening day, but Steinbrenner seems to be taking a cue from Cashman. The Yankees do not have Santana, but they have their prospects, and Cashman’s plan is intact.
“I said we’d be tested on some of our top-tier talent,†Cashman said. “We have been, and sure enough, they’re still standing — hopefully for a long time.â€
Funny… with no exciting talk of a big trade for the likes of Santana I may actually get to bed at a decent time tonight… my fingers feel are beginning to feel heavy on the keyboard… my eyelids are half covering my eyes… my head is falling to the side & I …. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
“Joseph Thatcher”
Thatcher’s a lefty as well. Looks good, too.
Igawa, though…I mean, unless they’re dumb the Yanks have him working on his mechanics this winter. He could build his value with a decent ST. I feel like they have to take the chance that he can do that.
Fleas,
You do not deserve to call yourself a Yankees fan. For 3 days now you’ve been crying,whining and bashing the Yankee Brass, because of your perception that the world will end if the mighty Redsox get Santana. The Guys on the Redsox Blogs are giddy reading some of the posts on this blog by the whiners and naysayers.
If the Sox get Santana, and that is a huge if. The season still has to play out.
The Yankees came with-in 2 outs of beating the best front two ever assembled in a rotation in 2001. A few bloop singles and an error gave the D’Backs the series.
The Yankees also beat the Vaunted Braves pitching staff in 8 straight world series games.
Your posts are tiresome and getting old. If You want to whine, there is a whole region in the North East that will gladly have you come worship their team, They have been whining for 90 years. You would fit in perfectly.
whozat, I am not putting all the blame on Guidry. Obviously the pitchers also have some of the blame.
Interesting comments that LathamJoe put up there as well.
I really have nothing against the Gator at all as a Yankee. I do think that it is possible that Eiland, who never had anything close to Guidry’s talents, might be a better coach because of how he had to work on things. Maybe Eiland can figure out how to get Wang back in the groove.
Even better would have been to get Mel back. Stottlemyre is an amazing pitching coach.
As I take a deep breath and take all of this in.. really try and allow my emotions to take the back seat..
I smell a fish..
Something is not right..
Hank is a Steinbrenner, I doubt highly Cashman can talk him out of something he really wants… and trust me.. he REALLY wants Santana.
There was so much rukous about Santana the second the Yankee’s hit the front door of the ‘Escher Hotel” ..
Hmm.. I am starting to get some clarity..
Bobcat, no words.. hasn’t been seen since.. ?
Almost no news on the Yankee’s doing anything at all .. ?
Yankee’s explicitly saying.. “Nothing big happening.. but yet remain hush hush”
I smell a roost.. just maybe..
..ponder it yourself..
Igawa could build his value or loose whatever value he has left. I think he should try some Sushi right before he goes out there.
Here you go again .. utter nonsense. If there was an ignore list on here you would surely be on it.. OH WAIT.. there is one.
[ BUTTON ]
“typed name in the wrong box.. the post above that has VOIII’s name on it was me telling that to VOID err I mean VOIII.
Please! His name is not pronounced “Alba-la-DAY-ho”. Can we at least TRY to pronounce his name properly?
Alba-la-DEH-ho
Fleas-
You also want Cashman fired?
Fleas – I don’t want to be an instigator, but you do realize that Johan Santana has a 3.98 ERA against the AL East over the last three years. Don’t you?
3.98 ERA is very good. Don’t get me wrong, but I don’t think it is 4 prospects + $150 M good.
Mike R,
Uhm, the number of prospects means nothing.. quality vs quantity..
Hughes: 1 great prospect
Melky: totally average player easily replacable (great arm)
who were the other two again.. a AA ball player and a A ball player.. for that deal Yes, by all means … That good
The price of $150M .. well, what deals are making any sense these days with a 3 year 45 million 1 inning pitcher at 38 years old and for brevity the many other unreal money deals for so-so players.
Buddy:
Nah, I want to yell at him, but I don’t want him fired.
just so people don’t screw up his name
it’s not Alba- la- dey- ho,
it’s Alba-la-dey-o, the H in spanish doesn’t sound, in Dominican it doesn’t sound, in Puerto Rican it doesn’t sound so Jonathan Alba-la-dey-o not “ho”
I think it comes down to the fact that Cashman didn’t want to trade Hughes, he felt pushed into it.
I agree with those who say that Igawa has the potential to be decent out of the pen. His stuff isn’t bad at all. He does have the ability to strike people out. Igawa does need to find his location. His lack of location this season just killed him. I remember many 0-2 pitches that ended up in far off, empty places (beyond the fence). He can be better after seeing Major League hitters for a year, studying their tendencies, and being able to make the necessary adjustments. Pitching inside more often will also help him.
I understand your point about contracts, but can you really expect his ERA to get better throughout the contract? It’s doubtful. My argument is that maybe he is as much of a “sure thing” as some would like to think. I mean that 3.98 ERA includes his last two years where he had incomparable success. I think Santana would be a great addition, but not if it takes Hughes to get him, and I am a guy who was Santana crazy last week. I would have traded Hughes, Melky, Tabata and Horne for the guy, but the more time passes the less enamored I am.
Fleas, I can understand some of your frustration, but I am not so sure that the Yankees would have gotten it done with any of the reported packages. BSmith was saying he wanted Kennedy also. This was after he pretty much told the Yankees it would be a deal if they swapped Kennedy for Hughes.
Smith was not going to stop with upping the desires.
I really doubt the issue was with the contract of Santana, even though the Yankees have committed to a tremendous amount extra with all the signings they did this off season. The real cost problem was giving away these young arms.
Will they work out? Who knows. Santana was once a young arm just starting out with less upside than these three have shown.
What if they all do pan out? What if every one of them lives up to the hype? And they were traded away?
There are different types of risks to take. The Yankees took a different path than they have taken in the past. Sometimes it pays off to change your ways. When what you used to do didn’t work so often you almost owe it to yourself to try something new.
OH?
How about we just call him BIG Oh.
Very inciteful comments about Guidry vs Eiland wrt Hughes’ performance. Did anyone notice that Molina also seemed to recognize Phil’s struggles and did a better job of calling the pitches for a specific hitter when he caught Phil.
Never slight Jorge, but it seemed that Molina did a better job of working with the young guns. It’s a system — Pitcher/catcher/coach/manager — and I think we will be much better in 2008 than we were in 07.
Brandon: it should be Albaladey-ho. It’s a j, therefore makes the h sound.
SI
is it me ? or does this sound more like
Theo: “Jr. why haven’t you fought me back on the offers you smart a**, this isn’t how it was suppose to happen”
Bill: “This isn’t what I wanted”
Hank: “Damn this cigar taste great”
Brian: “HAHAHAHAHA….suffer”
Thank you.. finally a civil debate and no name calling.
I understand your guys point and I do have some internal confusion and strife but I simplify it with this…
The Yankee’s have been in dyer need for a “real ace” for years not a “hopeful ace” Santana to me is that guy.
Again, I can deal with it better if I thought for sure Santana wasn’t going to the Sox, if he does.. I sense another disturbance in the force like the ever so many last year..
I’m with Mike R…I expierenced the same emotions at the first thought of Santana donning a Yankee uni….But logic prevails if given time…..
Also, with it so quiet all day around Santana .. I have this gut feeling that it really will come to a conclusion sooner than later.
Andrea if your part spanish you most likely hear it as “O”
rarely very rarely is it “ho” or “jo”.. it’s when they americanize it that it happens then latinos usually roll w/ watever the announcer or baseball instructers in the state say.
Back Bench must have been a catcher at one time….I watch the Moilina’s when they were with the Angels…Very smart about the game and with young pitchers especially…..He’s the best backup the Yanks have had since Jorge was Giradi’s caddy……
Fleas – I am not a name caller. It’s not my style. I get your point. I have been dreaming of Yankee Santana for about three years now. I would be happy if we landed him, I would be happy if he stayed in Minny or if he went to any NL team. Going to the Red Sox is the only scenario that worries me, but I’ll cross that bridge in due time if necessary. No use crying over spilled milk, especially before it spills.
Bullpen definites:
Rivera
Farnsworth
Candidates:
Britton
Albaladejo
Bruney
Ohlendorf
Veras
Sanchez
Rasner
Karstens
White
Horne
Marquez
Patterson
Robertson
Whelan
Jones
Garbage:
Henn
Wright
Igawa
DeSalvo
Beam
Am I missing anybody?
More than likely VIzcaino if he re-signs .. I tend to put him in the Garbage list personally.
Fleas-
You may get two Aces, Joba & Hughes.
I’m off to watch a movie.. be back later.
Brandon: it won’t sound like an H sound, but H is the best American letter we can do. It’s not a silent sound.
Depending on the dialect, it might be ignored, but chances are it’s not a silent sound. Just saying the J doesn’t follow the same patterns as the H.
Can we just call him Albie?
poor Matt DeSalvo
Counter-intuitively, the Yankees are taking a bigger risk with Santana than trading Hughes+(whoever else); leaving aside opportunity costs, the Yankees have far less invested in Hughes (plus the rest of the package, one can never forget about that) than in Santana (especially if he gets 7/>$150 million).
In a lot of ways, the Yankees are in a win-win/lose-lose situation, whether they get Santana or not. Hughes was, after all, the number one pitching prospect in all of baseball heading into this season. At 20, going on 21. There’s a lot of promise in him; it’s so easy to underrate him just because he’s a young, cost-controlled pitcher who hasn’t reached his potential yet.
No, he isn’t Santana. He may never be Santana. But if you never shoot for the stars, you’ll never reach them. Sometimes it pays to take a gamble with a young starting pitcher, and I’d be hard pressed to find a better gamble than Phil Hughes.
I don’t know what else to say about Santana going to the Red Sox; I feel like I’ve said everything I have to say on that topic.
Pete,
Do you see Rasner being in the mix for a bullpen spot?
*That beginning should read: counter-intuitively, the Yankees are smaller a bigger risk with Hughes than trading Hughes+(whoever else) for Santana.
…my God, I just can’t type anything tonight. “Taking a smaller risk” is what I meant to type.
If Mr. Torre was still the skipper, Alba-la-DAY-ho would have ZERO chance to make the club out of spring training. Sad but true. See: Britton, Chris.
Sorry if I saw 150 plus Yankee games last year. Wasn’t it the Yankees who had one of he best records in the second half. Wasn’t it the Yankee’s who had a better head to head with the Red Sox last year. Wasn’t it the Yankee’s who had more rookie starting pitchers pitch since WW2. Sorry if most of you are talking out your pie hole. Sorry if our starting pitching is going to be better then last year. Sorry if we have the reigning MVP playing 3rd base for us. Ya lets trade half our team for Santana, I see how far he took the twins.
The yankees nees santana. We saw what mussina was in 2007,Trade cabrera and matsui