Santana still a member of the Twins
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Dec 05, 2007 
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We’re closing in on 4 p.m. here in Nashville and the Red Sox and Twins have yet to complete any trades. If there is another team seriously involved, nobody has identified them.
Could the Yankees jump back in? Sure they could. But I get the sense that the Yankees cooled on the idea of obtaining Santana once they got Andy Pettitte back. Signing a pitcher to a long-term contract goes against the way Brian Cashman wants to run the team.
They like the idea of having so many young pitchers under control. There are no guarantees, but there is probably an ace in the group.
I don’t know what to think anymore. I don’t think I care either.
i’m happy with this.
i really hope the guy just stays in MN.
Tigers acquired 3B Miguel Cabrera and LHP Dontrlle Willis from the Marlins for OF Cameron Maybin, LHP Andrew Miller, RHP Dallas Trahern, RHP Eulogio De La Cruz, C Mike Rabelo and RHP Burke Badenhop.
The Marlins refused to let Detroit discuss a contract extension with either Cabrera or Willis as part of the deal. Both are arbitration eligible and under control for two more years. Cabrera seems more likely to get a big offer this winter than Willis. As things stand now, the Tigers could be looking at a lineup of: CF Curtis Granderson, 2B Placido Polanco, DH Gary Sheffield, 3B Cabrera, OF Magglio Ordonez, 1B Carlos Guillen, SS Edgar Renteria, C Ivan Rodriguez and LF Jacque Jones/Marcus Thames. They could also bat Cabrera third, Ordonez fourth and Sheffield fifth. Since they don’t plan to move Cabrera off third base initially, a Brandon Inge trade appears likely. Dec. 5 – 4:15 pm et
That’s a linuep.
If you got
Andy
Joba
Ian
Phil
Moose
Wang
In a poker game, who would win?
I’d go with Wang, but you all may disagree.
Yankees need to jump back in if they can. Take advantage of this moment of weakness from the Twinkees.
Chris NY– yea Pettite is a big-game pitcher. And the last time we won the WS was? We need help. We are banking a lot on our future.
Captain’sCorner couldn’t agree with you.
For one to say they are happy to have Hughes over Santana is asinine. He would help us in our biggest weakness, frontline pitching for the PLAYOFFS. Not the regular season! (he would do that too, but that is a given)
With this said… I am happy we are not overpaying. I think Hughes/Melky/Horne/Jackson is a fair offer for the best pitcher in the game. Kennedy would be far too much to include when it obvious the Twins/Sox are bluffing with that insulting offer.
I know everyone wants to root for these kids. It’s great. it’s endearing. But prospects are such a crap shoot, more so than say, acquiring a fairly young ACE.
For instance, was Austin Jackson on anyone or any team’s radar until his big finish this season? The fact that he has value now is A BONUS. If he struggles at all he will immediately lose a lot of his luster and chances are will never have a whiff of that polluted Bronx air. This goes for all our prospects.
We will have draft picks every year. Second tier pitchers like Horne and OF like Jackson will come and go. That is why we cannot be attached to anyone besides the big 3.
Hughes Chamberlain and Kennedy. Are no longer prospects in my eyes or the teams eyes. They are players on our roster for this year. That is why you can’t include 2 in a deal.
We will not be duped. We will not be bullied. We are lying in the weeds until the Twins come back and realize that Phil Hughes has the best CHANCE to come close to Santana’s production in years down the line. It sucks that we have to give up one of our guys, but hey the return is going to put us over the top.
I am really proud of our management right now to sift through the BS, be confident and work with out strengths.
Bill Smith will be riding the short bus back to Minnesota.
For one big game – to be played tommorrow – Andy Pettite.
rebecca that’s hilarious…
and i bet you’re right. he’d win
Rebecca- You gotta go with Mussina. He dominates crossword puzzles, plus, he knows how to sell a bluff.
I knew this would happen! It makes me laugh at all the posts arguing back and forth about Johan. Nothing happened, and nothing WAS going to happen! Even if the Yankees gave them that “magic offer,” the Twins weren’t prepared to let go of him in Nashville.
My vote is with Moose. He’s the smartest guy in the group.
I agree on the contract aspect. I am actually surprised that Boston (allegedly) would consider jumping into a contract situation like that. They don’t have the big ball park the Yanks do not to mention all the luxury boxes that will bring in tons of cash when the new place opens. They can only put so many seats on top of the Green Montster up there.
In a poker game, who would win?
cashman….while hank will be the 1st one out
I’ll take the kid from Stanford.
migames: That’s so obvious though, it’s why I didn’t include them
What about it?
Should we organize a charity poker game with all the Yanks’ starters?
Loser has to do those pull ups Damon was talking about?
If the Twins were willing to wait after both of these offers which both had MLB ready people in it then they are willing to just let him go for draft picks it seems. As far as they are concerned I dont think they consider it weakness as they seem happy just to wait and keep him.
Tigers are stacked… But let’s remember that Kenny Rogers is ancient, Bonderman looked like Hideo Nomo towards the end of the year, and Todd Jones is still closing for them.
that leaves Verlander/Willis/Bonderman as your top 3 probably — I dont see that as being too much better than Wang/Pettitte/Hughes…
LMAO
I could see it now. The very first hand. Hank doesn’t even look at his cards and goes all in.
- “I don’t have time for games. I will not allow you to play me against Brian.”
Bill from NJ
Here is a lineup:
Damon
Jeter
Abreu
Rodriguez
Matsui
Cano
Giambi
Cabrera
Posada
Best 2nd baseman and shortstop in the AL, best 3b in baseball, best catcher in baseball (imo), strong production 20/100 from LF and RF, best defensive CF in baseball, and great OBP from the leadoff spot, former MVP at first base with the potential to knock out 35HR
I’d say we’ve got one heck of a lineup, as well. Don’t count out Giambi, that would be a big mistake.
I think Santana stays with the Twins until the July trade deadline. Maybe the Yanks can get him them, since (like Prince said) we need an ace for the playoffs.
I have ALWAYS wanted for MLB to organize a Charity Poker tournament with all the GM’s. That would be incredible.
“I could see it now. The very first hand. Hank doesn’t even look at his cards and goes all in.”
Hahaha “That’s the way I do business. I make a strong offer, take it or leave it.”
Oops, meant to post here:
Cost to start pitchers signed from other teams that didn’t pan out (according to expectations): millions and millions in money and frustration
Mike Mussina (so-so)
Jaret Wright
Javier Vasquez
Jose Contreras
Hideki Irabu
Randy Johnson
Kevin Brown
Carl Pavano
Esteban Loaiza
Jon Leiber
Jeff Weaver
Denny Neagle
Kenny Rogers
Cost to let home-grown pitchers get a chance to become dominant lifelong Yankees: PRICELESS (and cheaper too!)
Andy Pettitte
Mariano Rivera
Joba Chamberlain
Philip Hughes
Ian Kennedy
Basically everyone in the current rotation has injury concerns. Pettitte with his elbow, Wang with his assortment of hamstrings, blisters, etc. Joba was not drafter higher because of injury concerns, Hughes we saw last year and Moose…. Moose is Moose.
Hank will tell you what hand he has, tell you its better than yours (of course, without knowing what you have) and give you a deadline to make your move and tell you that you are not a true yankee…then he will go out for a smoke.
Cashman wouldnt say a word
If you got
Andy
Joba
Ian
Phil
Moose
Wang
In a poker game, who would win?
Moose earned an econ degree from stanford in three years! need I say more
Hank actually looks good.
He stuck by his deadline and the market for Santana deflated.
Smith overplayed his hand and had his bluff called.
Moose has a good poker face. Never cracks a smile.
Moose earned an econ degree from stanford in three years! need I say more
or an economy major, as tim macarver once said…
I think the other question should be…Who would be the first one out. I love Joba, but I think he would stink at poker. I can see him now…fist pumping everytime he gets a good hand.
I agree 100%. 100 people crucify him when things go wrong and two praise him when things go right. It’s a thankless job.
I know this doesnt mean much, but the Tigers also have a decent bat in Willis during interleague.
That is a SOLID line up.
Just saw this trade rumor on http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/
Minnesota has initiated talks for a three-way blockbuster with the Twins and A’s. Here’s how it would go down:
Mets send Jose Reyes, Kevin Mulvey, and Hector Pellot to A’s
A’s send Bobby Crosby and Dan Johnson to Mets
A’s send Dan Haren to Twins
Twins send Johan Santana to Mets
Personally, I find it too crazy to even put truth to it, but it’s out there.
Wow, check out the latest Mets/Oakland/Twins rumor up on MLBTR.
hclunited, cmon man….moose was def a good signing(the first time around, not the 2nd contract)….he was MUCH better than everyone else on your list….
yeah just saw that too delaware… DAM
Message to Cash:
Go home and get some more bullpen.
Message to Twinkies:
See you in July.
Message to the Mets:
Nice try, you aint got enough.
Message to Theo:
You did your job, have a Jack Daniels Sour at the Jack Daniels saloon…on me.
Moose would make his sourpuss face whenever he got a bad hand. I would go with either Cashman or Wang. Wang’s face shows no emotion.
But for it all, I go with Mo.
That is essentially a Johan for Haren straight up deal for the Twins. How is that a better offer than what they have received?
kunaldo-
Yah, I’ll agree on Mussina. I remember his first year, every outing I thought he had a chance for a no-hitter. Just never could get one. He had several go into the 8th inning, only to be broken up.
Yeah, that three way trade makes no sense what so ever. A) Oakland gets way way way too much there and the Twins don’t get nearly enough. Haren for Santana straight up is not what they want to do. They’d have taken Hughes straight up if that were the case…
i think the trade is done and the sox are trying to work out a deal with santana and his agent…
all this is being done on the down-low so everyone can save face when santana eventually veto’s the trade.
the sox are probably nickel and diming him as we speak.
johan will be playing for the twinkies in 2008… C-Money and Hankenstein will throw him some crazy loot when he hits free agency.
mark it down.
Must be a slow day at the meetings. The folks on that website are now making up trade rumors.
Good work if you can find it.
hclunited- I acutally don’t think Lieber should be on that list. he did well for the Yanks.
myrtlebeachfan- The holes in that lineup are:
Damon
Melky
Abreu
Matsui
Giambi
MLB Trade Rumors is about as credible as Fox News.
Anyone read about this PSYCHOTIC 3-way deal that mlbtraderumors supposedly got from a “trusted NY sportswriter”
METS GET
Johan Santana
Bobby Crosby
Dan Johnson
TWINS GET
Dan Haren
Hector Pellot (mets 2B prospect)
A’S GET
Jose Reyes
Kevin Mulvey
I think this is a dream of Billy Beane’s. Dan Haren is NOT that much more valuable than Hughes to for this to be better for Minnesota. The A’s get a TON for Haren and a SS they can’t stand anymore.
Mets get a decent package but trading Reyes is beyond dangerous.
I guess a lineup of Castillo Church Beltran Wright Delgado Alou Crosby Schneider isn’t the worst thing ever, but that’s a rough deal to do.
Career G GS GF W L PCT ERA CG SHO SV IP BFP H ER R HR BB IBB SO WP HBP BK HLD
4 Years 7 5 0 1 2 .333 3.23 0 0 0 30.2 129 31 11 11 1 10 1 28 0 1 0
Not a big sampling I admit but combine that with AL East numbers posted by Peter, it may not be all bad him staying in Minny plus we still likely get him next year as a FA (if still around).
If that 3 way trade has any truth to it, and I were the Mets, I would do that deal right now.
The Mets are NOT giving up Reyes! End of story, and I do mean FICTION.
Now that I think about it, yanks should make an offer to Lieber. Why not? He may have a better chance than Moose in the rotation.
The ideal scenario is that the Twins hold on to Santana through the entire season, or that Santana is traded mid-season to a contender but doesn’t sign an extension with that team. Then the Yankees sign him as a free agent. Then in 2009 they have Santana/Wang/Hughes/Joba/Kennedy.
If the Sox aren’t willing to sweeten the deal for Santana right now then it isn’t very likely that they will change their mind in July. And on other team seems to have the desire to sign Santana to the megacontract.
Patience is going to pay off for the Yankees in 2009.
That seals it…Pete thinks Santana is NOT coming to the Yankees….BET THE FARM he WILL become a Yankee very soon.
Oh and Don’t forget that Pettitte is very open to the idea of pitching in 2009 and beyond in the new stadium….so how is THIS for a 6 man rotation ?
Santana
Pettitte
Joba
Wang
Hughes
Kennedy
I say SCHWEET !
I think the Twins need more than Haren for that deal to go down, but it’s not completely out of the question. Perhaps one of the Mets’ OF prospects goes to the Twins?
I’d put actual chance of a trade like that going down below 10%, though, and that might be optimistic.
Jim Rome is burning – - at Hank Steinbrenner. He needs to be careful. Hank could turn the tables on him in a New York minute…
http://youtube.com/watch?v=dOVxitMy47c
This three-way idea is something the Yankees should jump in to in an indiscreet manner and try to force out the Mets.
Figure something out with billy beane.
I bet cash is at least touching base with beane throughout the madness even if nothing goes down.
Theo Epstein uses rufees to get laid and gerbil races on Sundays.
What is the most number of teams involved in a trade? 4? They should have a 30-team, 70 player trade. Or for Christmas, everyone puts their #1 starter in a grab bag, and take turns randomly picking a starter. Then Yanks have a 1/30 chance of landing Santana. Sweeet! Hahahaha
I know a lot of people rip on Moose, but I like the guy.
Does everyone forget 2006? He was having a solid season until the Yankees found ways to lose the games he was starting. I believe he could have put up his first 20 win season if he had more support.
Don’t count him out yet, the guy is very determined and at the end of the season he got us some much needed wins.
hclunited:
Cost to start pitchers signed from other teams that didn’t pan out (according to expectations): millions and millions in money and frustration
Mike Mussina (so-so)
Jaret Wright
Javier Vasquez
Jose Contreras
Hideki Irabu
Randy Johnson
Kevin Brown
Carl Pavano
Esteban Loaiza
Jon Leiber
Jeff Weaver
Denny Neagle
Kenny Rogers
Cost to let home-grown pitchers get a chance to become dominant lifelong Yankees: PRICELESS (and cheaper too!)
Andy Pettitte
Mariano Rivera
Joba Chamberlain
Philip Hughes
Ian Kennedy
While I agree with your overall sentiment it’s a disingenuous list:
Cost to start pitchers signed from other teams that DID pan out
Jimmey Key
David Cone
Roger Clemens (1st time)
David Wells (1st time)
Orlando Hernandez (Big Time)
Shawn Chacon
Aaron Small
also Randy Johnson won 17 games twice
Irabu was not that bad he was just over rated. winning a couple of pitcher of the months while here.
Mussina has been mixed (as you stated)
I think Moose wins that game…
Ian Kennedy is first out.
cross health blue tonik insurance blue insurance tonik health cross
Well said, finally a good report on this stuff
chris brown is not an abuser