Deadline approaches for four players
-
- December
- 11
Tomorrow is the non-tender deadline. So what is that?
Players with between 3-5 years of MLB experience are arbitration eligible. Teams can retain them by simply offering them a contract. If the player doesn’t like the offer, the sides can go to arbitration.
Arbitration is a nasty business that involves the team running down the virtues of a player they will be keeping just to save money. It creates bad feelings and most teams try to avoid it.
If a team doesn’t want to risk arbitration or simply wants to get rid of the player, they can “non-tender” him. Those players then become free agents. Boston signed David Ortiz after Minnesota non-tendered him.
The Yankees have four players to make decisions on: INF Wilson Betemit, RHP Brian Bruney, 2B Robinson Cano and RHP Chien-Ming Wang.
Betemit, Cano and Wang will be offered contracts and probably sign before they go to arbitration. Given their production, Cano and Wang will be in for major raises. The Yankees might even entertain the idea of signing them to long-term deals, which is what the Mets did with Jose Reyes and David Wright. Curiously, the Yankees never do that.
Bruney is a question mark. He throws hard but lacks command and has been oddly resistant to advice. Opponents had an .887 OPS against Bruney in the second half and he walked 12 batters in 15 innings.
He could be worth keeping if only to see if new pitching coach Dave Eiland can get through to him. But with the Yankees needing roster spots, it wouldn’t be surprise if they cut Bruney loose.
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on Tuesday, December 11th, 2007 at 3:05 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Bye bye Bruney!
No need to waste money there. Bruney has to be non-tendered. They’ve got a bunch more at least as good who can be paid the minimum.
I’m not sure Bruney would last long under the new Joe. He doesn’t put up with outbursts of jackassedness (if that is even a word).
Thus far, Girardi has done a great job getting ready to manage the Yanks: traveling to the DR and the baseball academy, calling free agents, calling current players, etc. I was upset to see Donnie Baseball leave the Yankee family, but Girardi is making that emotion vanish with his preparedness. I look forward to seeing how he handles the media and the first sign of a prolonged team slump.
Just as long as they keep Cano and the Wanger!
Might be worth it to see if Eiland can straighten him out. I don’t know who they’d rather cut instead of him though so more than likely he’s a goner.
Phil, I agree - I’m very impressed with Joe G. so far. I think he’ll handle the media fine, as I remember him being somewhat of a team spokesman back when he was playing for New York.
(PS - I think I’m getting old - I’m just getting to the age where I remember when current managers were players. 28’s only a few days away - yikes!).
I’d actually keep Bruney.
Girardi and Eiland don’t strike me as guys who will let Bruney get away with his obstinate garbage.
The guy has a great right arm. They should see if they can break him of his career killing flaws one more time before sending him out into the free agent waters.
If he pulls his usual garbage, send him down to A ball and make him a catcher.
I’d rather keep an arm like Bruney’s on the roster for one more year than a DeSalvo, Karstens or Rasner who can’t get major league hitters out with their best stuff on their best day.
Bruney can strike out the side if he figures it out.
And I know all the “our not major league caliber Yankee prospect are our cute puppies” people will come out and tell me why sweet honest Matty DeSalvo and the other two flotsam deserve the spot over a guy who can throw 98 and has more potential than all 3 of them.
I’d give Bruney one more shot and let Girardi kick him around for a spring and try to get through to him. That’s what he’s known for and what he did in FLA.
I know Yankees history doesn’t sign arbitration eligible players long-term deals,especially yankees have luxury taxes problems,but does it save money and nasty process since the way to do business in baseball has changed a lot?I certainly understand Yankees already spent tons of money on signing A-Rod/Mo/Posada/Pettitte this offseason and will have a lot of long/bad contracts free up next season.If I were Yankees front office,I would sign Cano and Wang long-term deals around All Star break 2008 Season when they put up another solid first half season.
I think DeSalvo, Beam, and Pavano should all go before Bruney. Bruney was great at times in 2006 and still had flashes last season. How much will he really command in arbitration? I don’t see why we let that arm go. I don’t think Rasner should go, he was actually doing quite well before his injury in the beginning of the season and he’s a former number one pick, I still think he could be something. Karstens I would consider letting go before Rasner.
“Karstens or Rasner who can’t get major league hitters out with their best stuff on their best day.”
Tell that to Karstens’ 3.8 ERA in 2006, and Rasner’s low 4-s in the same time frame.
They’re solid spot-starters.
DeSalvo…well, if you’ve got to cut bait, he’d be near the top of my list.
I think for sure DeSalvo is the next one going. Remember he was not protected or he was let go last year and no one bit on him.
rb15:
I’ve got socks older than 28.
rb: Heh. I’m 21.
Unlike the Yankees pull of a many-for-one trade soon, they will need to cut three players from the 40-man to make room for A-Rod, Mo and Hawkins. They’ll save about a million dollars by non-tendering Bruney. DeSalvo is a good candidate. So is Beam, who made little progress last year.
Rasner is an interesting case. He is probably the best of the “#6 men,” but he is out of options. So if he doesn’t make the team out of Spring Training or doesn’t fit into a permanent “swing-man” role, they’ll have to cut him anyway.
A long but good read on the behind the scenes of the Mitchell Investigation.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3142651
“rb: Heh. I’m 21.”
I’m 27. I found out the other week that one of my old lab interns (who’s 18) has a crush on me. I own booze that is older than her.
Bruney was sent down last year to get his act together.
Reportedly, he wasn’t happy about it. So, instead of taking to heart what some very successful major leaguers are telling him, he keeps on doing what has failed in the past. Apparently he is as big a meathead as Kyle. Too bad, because he does have a terrific arm.
Oh my - nothing like this blog to make me feel old. rb - you have NO right complaining of being old at the age of 28.
You see, people like Murphy Dog and me (besides having old socks) remember the times BEFORE the current manager was a player . . .
Bruney won’t be back. never.
If he is back then why trade for bullpen help? just have him be taught by Mo.
I think all this adds up to one thing: time for the Moose trade for minor league prospects from Philly.
Lori,
I’m old enough to remember Horace Clarke being our everyday 2B. Ha!
“So is Beam, who made little progress last year.”
He’s had very good numbers in the minors the last two years, though…he doesn’t walk many, and strikes out a lot. He had a K/9 greater than 8, and a BB/9 under 2.
Frankly…I think he was another victim of JoeT. They’d bring him up, let him sit a week, and then he’d get blown out and they’d send him away again because it was clear Joe wouldn’t use him.
I dunno…I can’t see any reason he shouldn’t get a shot at the bullpen mix.
I GUARANTEE I have a book that’s older than any of you and probably most of you put together.
It was printed in 1792.
Rebecca,
What’s the title/subject?
Yanksrule: Part 9 of the Aenid.
does bruney have any options left?
Rebecca,
Sounds Like a family heirloom maybe, or was Barnes and Noble doing a blowout sale on 18th century clearance items?
rebecca, i hate to be the out-do you guy, but…
wait, i really do hate that.
sorry, never mind.
i run a used and rare bookstore, so i get excited when the topic comes up.
Yanks: Nothing of the sort.
Bought it for $10 at a used book shop on Charing Cross Rd in London
Rebecca, that’s very cool. I took Greek back in high school, and we translated the Iliad. Well, part of it anyway. A very small part of it (Translating from English to Ancient Greek is no joke, guys).
micheal: WHERE?!?!
OMG I AM SO THERE!!
my store is 20 minutes from cooperstown.
Rebecca,
I love browsing through old bookstores. Just flipping through a book like that is like taking a trip back in time. The illustrations, binding, paper, nothing today compares. Of course 20 years from now paper books will probably be completely obsolete so a small treasure like your book will be even more precious.
Rebecca, if you ever come to Boston, let me know - I’ll direct you to some incredible used and independent bookstores (Boston, for all its baseball-related faults, is pretty incredible for its academic/student/bookworm resources).
michael: Dang, that’s far from me, but next time I’m near that area, I’ll go!
Yanksrule: I know what you mean. My friend and I spent an entire evening in that store…I got four pre 1900-printed books for 20 pounds ($40)
Rebecca
You could probably compile an entire book with just your entries on this blog. Just kidding… I like reading what you have to say.
Wasn’t there a movie about an American woman who conducted business long-distance with a rare bookshop on Charing Cross Road?
Neyer article on Hughes today on ESPN Insider….
According to Phil Pepe, the Yankees’ unwillingness (so far) to deal for Johan Santana only increases the expectations for Phil Hughes.
Nobody expects Hughes to rival Santana in the next few years as the best pitcher in the American League, but the hope is that he can come close to contributing as many wins as might be expected from Santana, and for a lot less money. Santana has won 93 games and Hughes has won only five, but Santana is seven years older than Hughes, who would have to average slightly less than 13 wins over the next seven seasons to reach 93 wins at Santana’s current age, 28.
Over the last five seasons, Santana has averaged 16.2 wins a season, a number that certainly is attainable for Hughes.
But put aside what Santana has done up to now. What really matters is what he does from here on, and if Hughes can come close to matching it. The Yankees are betting he can. They’re also betting he will still be winning games for them long after Santana has bid the game adios.
I’m not sure why Pepe would reference Santana’s last five seasons, as he was a reliever for nearly half of 2003. In his four full seasons as a starter, Santana’s averaged 17 wins per season. But even that’s not exactly the right number, because if Santana had been pitching for the high-powered Yankees he’d have averaged more than 17 wins. I’m sure there’s some tool that would give us a number, but I suspect the number is close to 19 wins.
So that is the baseline: 19 wins per season. And no, the Yankees aren’t betting Hughes can win 19 games per season. I would guess they’re hoping he can win 15 games per season for a few years: 45 wins from 2008 through 2010.
I made a list of starting pitchers who won Sporting News Rookie of the Year Awards from 1996 through 2004 (I began with 1996 to avoid strike-shortened season and ended with 2004 so I’d have three post-award seasons of data). There are 13 of them, from Alan Benes and James Baldwin in 1996 through Dontrelle Willis in 2003.
In the years they won the award, the pitchers averaged 13.4 wins per season. That might seem low, but many of them spent the early part of the season in the minors. Did this group average 45 wins for their next three seasons?
Hardly. They averaged 30.4 per three seasons. But you know what they say about averages: dunk a statistician’s left foot in a bucket of boiling water and his right foot in a bucket of ice water, and he’ll tell you he’s average. Same thing here.
Roy Oswalt averaged 16.3 wins per season, Tim Hudson 17.3, Willis 14.7. Happy happy joy joy. But those were the only three pitchers to average 15 wins per season over their next three seasons (or in Willis’s case, nearly 15).
And then there’s the bucket of ice: Alan Benes (11 wins in the next three seasons), Jason Dickson (4!) and Rick Ankiel (2!!).
Philip Hughes and Clay Buchholz both rank among the very best young pitchers today, and among the best in recent years. Santana will, over the next three years, be paid roughly 4,000 percent more money than either of the youngsters. But if their teams could trade them straight up for Santana, they’d do it in an East Coast Bias second. The men who run those teams are not foolish. They simply know, from hard experience, that for all the talent in those young pitchers, the odds are against them becoming stars.
Let’s Go Yankees!!!
Ok guys top this …
I remember Snuffy Sternweiss as our second baseman!
AND before WW II it was Joe Gordon.
Snuff said !!!
Roy: *giggles* Why dya think I got my name all linkified?
Rodg12: Nice bit, thanks for sharing.
Keep Bruney. So what he walks alot. That can be worked on he throws hard and strong and has great velocity.
Ah yes. A trip down memory lane. We do this every now and then here at the lohud yankee nursing home blog, when we lose the signal from the cable company.
Where do I fit in? I saw Mantle play just a year before he retired - but you gotta remember that my first trip to the stadium came at an advanced age, i.e., 9 years old.
Trust me, I’ve seen some real bad Yankee teams. Good Old CBS owned them then. Wow. Really bad. (How many of you remember team president Mike Burke?) Then there were the painful Mattingly-Winfield years, also long before most of you remember.
As ancient as that makes me compared to the 18 year old lab interns of the world, there are longer Yankee memories around these here parts.
There’s like 8 dudes here trying to e-flirt with this girl. yikes!
Rebecca, Cooperstown is only like 1.5 hours from us… I wouldn’t say that’s very far.
Iv cant help but think that first base is a big hole this year for us. Iv come up with Gonzalez or Kouzmanoff from s.d. Laroche. But one guy that we have totally left off now that we got Arod back is Crede. Yes. Joe Crede at first base. Power,great on defense. It might only cost us a Melky and a prospect.
We then sign Camaron and play Damon in center till his suspension is up.
sos 27, I would never trade Melky and another for Joe Crede, seriously? Joe Crede? No way.
rb15:
I turn 28 tomorrow. I’m starting to feel old!
Keith: Which girl?
Jim Johnson: Really?! I didn’t realise it was that close!
Am now going to schedule a trip with my friend…
Christ guys…I can’t kill the thread every time, y’know…
I agree. Melky and someone else for Crede is lunacy. There’s a decent chance Crede gets non-tendered today and we could try to get him for nothing. Although, I don’t think he’s an upgrade to what we currently have at 1B. His numbers are similar (and lower in some cases) to Betemit’s.
Okay MurphyDog, so you’re a little older than me. My first live Yankee game was the first year in the remodeled Yankee stadium. Great old place - I’m going to miss it.
I remember Bucky’s home run (I called it!) and the day it rained Reggie Bars. Of course, that was before the dark days . . .
I’ve been to a Yankees game every year of my life. My parents took me to a game before I was even 1 yr old. I’ve seen a lot happen at baseball games. The most memorable things probably being the Seagull invasion at a Milwaukee Brewers game in the early 90s (they’d fly onto the field between innings eating some bugs that were hatching on the field. A dog would be sent out to chase them away), Mike Stanley and Ruben Sierra each hit three homers in a game at the Stadium in ‘95 (one of them hit one to each field, I’m thinking it’s Stanley but I can’t remember for sure). But, I’m only 24 so I’ve got nothing on some of these posters.
Bruney was throwing gas in 2006. He constantly hit 96-98 with ease. Last year he seemed to be more 93-94 when I saw him. Was he hurt or something, or was it a lack of use? I think, with our shaky pen of unkowns, that it’s hard to let go of a guy like Bruney. MLB experience, power arm, and little risk.
My first Yankee game was in ‘63 and I was 9 years old. My first favorite Yankee (besides Mantle) was Joe Pepitone.
murphydog is right about how bad the team was when Mike Burke ran it. The Yanks of the mid 60’s were dreadful.
My first Yankee game:
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/box-scores/boxscore.php?boxid=199905310NYA
I remember being so excited to see El Duque pitched, and then he wasn’t any good.
It was my 13th birthday present, even though my birthday is 12 April.
Pete, please save us from this dribble and put up a new post.
As for Bruney, power arms are hard to come by, let Joe G. have a shot at teaching him to throw strikes.
Happy birthday Manny.
keith, I dont know if you were referring to me as one of the eight guys, but I’m a girl. (mel, I think we need to make some kind of disclaimer on this on every thread).
I’m heading home for the night, everyone - try not to talk about anything new while I’m gone!
Drive 4-5:
My Italian grandfather was a Yankee fan. He spoke english but only Italian things were good. My earliest memory of him is an afternoon game on tv at his apartment, (everything in plastic slip covers) with him yelling “Go Pepitone, Go Pepitone.”
So the Red Sox are talking to the Twins again and still John Heyman feels their not really interested, they are playing it cool just like they played it cool at the winter meetings.
Here is you’re question Jon,
Going into the room to make a deal is the best way to approach the deal to run into the room pants around you’re ankles, erection in hand screaming “I’M HORNY NOW” is that how you buy things? Is that how you bought you’re house, you’re car. Should you hold you’re self upside down and shake all the loose change out? Do you have any money in the back Jon? Do you have any money in you’re wallet or did you just buy 2 hot dogs that cost you’re paycheck?
I heart interns
“Pete, please save us from this dribble and put up a new post.”
It’s drivel.
What drivel? Debating the merits of Bruney vs DeSalvo vs Beam, etc?
back = bank
I don’t want to ever eat a hot dog again.
“is that how you buy things?”
Boy, was that a classy image.
No, but the fact that these leaks keep coming out in Minny papers is suspicious. The Twins clearly want it to be known that they’re still talking to the Sox. If the package was good enough, they’d have taken it. If the Sox and Twins were seriously dealing, this could easily have been done by now. Why isn’t it? Because the Sox aren’t in this thing to deal. If it costs them only guys they don’t need or want (Lester, Crisp et al), fine, they’ll do it. But they’re not going to give up anything they actually WANT to keep. Or they would have already.
It’s permeated its way to ESPN radio updates. They say that the Twins are still trying to convince the Sox to put up Ellsbury AND Lester.
You know, losing Santana to the Sox would sting, but Boston would feel the loss of Ellsbury. He brings value on and off the field. He’s their Jeter of the future.
While they might be able to buy out a year or two of their free agent years with an extension in their early-arb. years, they end up spending more money because of the stupid luxury tax rule.
The later years of those contracts would raise the average annual value (AAV) of the deal, and because the Yankees are so far beyond the luxury tax threshold, they would have to pay higher taxes on their young players if they extend them with 3-4 (or super 2) years of service time.
Rebecca -
Are you reading the Aeneid in Latin? That brings back memories of high school Latin 4 (Arma virumque cano…)
What’s unreal - I remember zero vocabulary, but I still know the grammar. The Jesuits will do that to you.
Great story about your granddad, Murph. My granddad was a Pirates fan from Wilkes-Barre. He used to fight with his mother-in-law (who was a huge Yankees fan). Must have been fun in the house in 1960 (before my time).
Scooter: Good lord no! The book I have is in English…but I bought it because of the oldness (I have an interest in Greek and Roman mythology, but I prefer to read relatively modern translations–as in, within the last 100 years!)
I took Spanish in High School and one year of college; I took a semester of Hebrew out of curiosity, but my professor wasn’t good enough for me to sign on for a second semester.
Mel-How does Ellsbury bring value off the field? By selling out the stadium? Merchandise? Believe me, if the Sox get Santana in that proposed deal, and they stay healthy, unless they run into a streak of bad luck-”Midges”, this team will have all the tools necessary to repeat as champions, without Ellsbury or Lester, if they put both into the deal. Let’s pray that Santana gets traded to our crosstown rivals the Mets!
The Yankees don’t pay luxury tax. Teams paying off new stadiums can deduct the cost of paying for the stadium from their luxury tax. The Yankees will be paying off the new stadium for 20 years at least and basically whatever the Luxury tax bill is for a given year the Yankees will say that is what the stadium bill is for that year. It’s why the Yankees who were trying to get NYC to buy their stadium for them but are building it themselves.
http://www.forbes.com/business/2007/12/06/business-basketball-nba-biz-07nba-cz_kb_mo_cs_1206nbaintro.html
An interesting article on team valuations. I feel for you Knicks fans. The most valuable NBA franchise, but the least proftiable.
The article calls the Knicks the Yankees of basketball because of their payrolls, disregard for luxury tax, high valuation, etc.
Knicks are an unholy entity unto themselves
*proud to be a Nets fan*
Yankee Trader,
I don’t want to get into it because I’m not an expert, but I suspect that Ellsbury will become the face of the franchise one day, much like Jeter has been these past years.
Remember the number is 40x or 4000%. That’s how much Santana would command over Ellsbury, Lester, and Hughes individually.
The Sox will try to get Santana, but they’re not giving up Ellsbury to get him.
I remember the Maz HR that beat the Yankees in the 1960 WS. Bobby Richardson was at 2B then. The Yanks were good thru Mgr Yogi’s 1964 team when things went down quickly.
I was a fan thru the late 50’s till today and there were some bleak years there. The Yanks trio of SP’s Bouton, Downing & Stottlemyre didn’t keep the ship a float. The defense was bad too.
Is Jacoby Ellsbury the most overrated prospect ever? The guy wasn’t impressive at all in AAA and barely got a cup of coffee in the bigs.
http://www.forbes.com/sportsbusiness/2007/04/19/business-baseball-valuations-07mlb-cz_kb_0419baseball_land.html
And this article’s more relevant to the Yankees. Click on rank. Can’t freaking believe we’re the only team that operates at a loss. Selig’s a crook, giving Georgie’s money away he’s Santa Claus. lol.
Speaking of Selig and crooks, when’s the Mitchell report due?
I don’t think Elsbury is that good. I believe he will not fair as well thru a full season. Never judge a player by their Aug/Sept callups says Kevin Maas!
Does the re-signing of Craig Monroe by the Twins mean that they no longer value as highly an outfielder in a trade for Santana. It would appear they are set with their outfield now and would look to fill further holes. This certainly favors the Yankees in that Melky Cabrera wasn’t looked at in high regard by them anyway, and the Red Sox were centering their deal around Ellsbury or Crisp, while the Mets were centering their deal around Gomez and FM, all outfielders. The Yankees have the strongest starting pitcher of the 3.
“Is Jacoby Ellsbury the most overrated prospect ever? The guy wasn’t impressive at all in AAA and barely got a cup of coffee in the bigs.”
Steroids. Mitchell Report
Ray! You better wash your mouth out with soap, right now!
You may be right, but Yankee fans don’t crap on Boston players. We’ve got too much class. lol.
And the Legend of Jacoby’s already begun. The free tacos did it.
Russell,
On their depth chart they have Kubel, then Monroe listed as their DH. I don’t know much about Kubel, but I think he’s a light hitter so maybe Monroe is needed to add what limited power he has.
James I believe you are wrong they will pay luxary tax regardless of the new stadium. It is revue sharing where they get a break see below and it is ONE time thing. Nott th a place to get into it but how much a team plays into revenue sharing is calculated based on a bunch of things which is layed out int he Basic Agreement. It is called Performance Factor.
(i) Triggering Events.
AClub’s Performance Factor may be adjusted one time during
this Agreement if: (A) the Club opens a new stadium during
this Agreement (“New Stadium Adjustment”); The Performance Factor of a Club that is subject to a New
Stadium Adjustment (“New Stadium Club”) will be recalculated
by replacing the New Stadium Club’s “Performance Factor
NDLR” (see Attachment 26) with ninety percent (90%) of
the New Stadium Club’s Net Local Revenue (less any postseason revenue) in the Club’s first full season of operation in the new stadium. All of the Clubs’ Performance Factors shall then be recalculated using a straight pool formula. The Clubs’ adjusted Performance Factors shall be effective beginning with the Revenue Sharing Year immediately following the New Stadium Club’s first full season of operation in the new stadium. A Club that is, or will become by the 2011 Revenue Sharing Year, subject to the New Stadium Adjustment shall not be subject to the CAGR Adjustment, even if the Club triggers the CAGR Adjustment prior to triggering the New Stadium Adjustment. By way of example, but not by way of limitation, a Club with Net Local Revenue growth sufficient to trigger the
CAGR Adjustment for the 2010 Revenue Sharing Year shall
not be subject to the CAGR Adjustment if it has had, or will
have, a full season of operation in a new stadium prior to the 2011 Revenue Sharing Year.
Could it be that signing Monroe is their “stopgap” until they can develop a MLB-ready CFer - like Ellsbury or Jackson?
Ps: Saw my first game at Old yankee Stadium in August 1959 - a doubleheader vs the Red Sox. My boyhood hero, “The Mick”, hit homers in both games. I saw guys like Berra, Ellie Howard, John Blanchard, Bobby Shantz, Ralph Terry and Red Sox Ted Williams (he only PH in the 2nd game)Frank Malzone, Gary Geiger and the first “Yankee Killer” - Bill Mombouquette. Now THAT’s old!
gayle,
Thanks for the info. So the Yanks won’t know how much they save until the first year’s revenues are in? My hair hurts from trying to figure this out,
If the Yankees truly want to keep their payroll close to what it was, then they will have to trade away a 13M salary this year in order to put Santana’s 13M salary under the Christmas tree. Since many of their expensive players contracts are untradeable, like Giambi and Mussina, that leaves Damon with a limited no trade, Matsui-with a full NTC , and maybe Abreu. Then next year, when onerous contracts come off the books, Santana’s 20-25M/year salary is doable.
James-Correct me if I’m wrong, but it’s the revenue sharing burden that the Yankees get a break on with their new stadium. They still have to pay 40 cents on each dollar of 2008 payroll over, I believe it was increased to around 160M?
Ray
I, too, remember the Maz home run and Yogi looking up at the wall hopelessly. That was in the days when you could skip school to watch the games.
I attended a Mantle-Ford fantasy camp in ‘91 in Ft. Lauderdale with Mick, Whitey, Yogi, Moose Skowron, Johnny Blanchard, Hector Lopez, Hank Bauer, Stan Bahnsen and others. What a week!
The decade of 65-75 was horrible for the Yanks,
LathamJoe,
It’s nice to know there’s someone possibly older than me here! LOL
If we send away a big contract, we’re going to have to eat a portion of it.
Ray,
I apologize. I think I have you mixed up with ray (Boston Fan). If so, please disregard my comment to you.
Hey Roy Hobbs!
The Yanks needed you! LOL! Some friends of mine played for the Yankees in the 70’s. Ken Clay & Brian Doyle. Strawberry lived down the street from me in AAA in my uncles house. The 70’s brought hope again.
Hi Mel,
Long time reader, short time poster & even longer time Yankee fan! LOL! No problem. I have many Red Sox fans as friends/co-workers. There guys are always better than the Yanks! (TIC) Except when they play on the field.
Yankees winnnnnnnnn!!!!!!!!!! The Yankees Win!!!!!!!!
whozat
No, that is actually Yankee talk. The 20 somethings complaining about how old they are, and the 8 e-flirts, 18 century books, etc. = dribble.
Hey Drive 4-5:
I guess “Southern Yankee” has us both beat - Snuffy Sternweiss??? He won the AL Batting Crown (.309) in 1945!
I believe Moose goes to Philly for a prospect or possibly Pat Burrell.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Giambi ended up in Oakland or SF. I believe Haren could be had by someone willing to eat other contracts like Rich Harden, Eric Chavez or possibly Bubba Crosby. What do you think?
Damn, Pete needs to change the name of this site to Senior Citizens Blog.lol
Some of you are old enough to be my grandfather and im in my 30’s.
No wonder I cant win a Yankees history arguement in this site. You guys litterally lived it.
S.o.S.
LOL. And I thought I was old, having heard Santana and Peter Frampton from my crib.
So, we’ve determined the youngest was 15? 19? Who’s the oldest?
Yankee Jay: It does not hurt you to broaden your horizons.
Get southern Yankee to tell you his age and whala. We got a winner.
3 Spots needed—-Rivera,Rodriguez,and Hawkins
3 Spots vacated—-Pavano,DeSalvo,Beam or Brunney
Hey, UtilityMan, where’s our Cairo?!
I almost want to keep Beam just to see his face on GameDay.
I agree in Mussina(if n.t.c.waived)could end up in Philly.
Giambi makes sense to go to either destination but i dont know if Selig would allow us to eat as much as half his salary to make that move.
Haren would cost us the same if not more than Santana. He has a resonable contract and Beane wont just give him away. So i would think 2 of the big 3 to land him. So he’s out of the picture.
I wouldnt mind trading for Harden in the pen as an 8th inning guy. Worth the risk.
Another name I would visit is Sheets, he was rumored to be available. Potential ace,when healthy.
Cairo should be on the team…..as the utility guy,and not no hit Chris Woodward or A-Rod buddy Nick Green.
But if ya ask whozat he will tell ya otherwise!
“whala”
Voila
“I believe Haren could be had by someone willing to eat other contracts like Rich Harden, Eric Chavez or possibly Bubba Crosby. What do you think?”
No. Billy would maybe be willing to do like the Marlins did with Beckett and take less in a deal if the other team takes, for instance, Chavez. But the Marlins still got an All-Star caliber young SS and several interesting young arms in that deal.
Talk about old. Snuffy Sternweiss coached me in the Journa american high school all-star game at the old Polo Grounds
My earliest recollections of the Yankees and baseball were the World Series with the Brooklyn Dodgers in the 1955 and 56, but the NY Yankee-Milwaukee Brave World Series of 1957 and 58, where both went 7 games were some of the most intense games of my lifetime. Great baseball played by great teams on TV in black and white.
Mussina to Phillies is an interesting scenario.
Makes sense to him….closer to home.
Makes sense to me….no more hearing excuses of why he didnt pitch a good game.
“murphydog is right about how bad the team was when Mike Burke ran it.”
“3 years later he(jack armstrong) went 9-3 in the 1st half and was named starting pitcher for the National League in the All Star Game”
drive 4-5-
i’m so old i can connect those two statements you made today and the other day. i met burke at my 1967 high baseball banquet( he was from my home town in ct.), and i caught jack armstrong in florida most of the winter before his all star year.
you know you are getting old when you have stories for almost any random topic.
you were right about armstrong throwing hard-high 90’s. bruce kison was asked by someone watching armstrong throw who he was , and kison said “i don’t know , but i’d like to exchange body parts”.
you know it’s a slow baseball day when you have to go back 30- 40 years for the daily baseball fix.
Sorry if I offended anyone.
I come here to hear insightful fans talk about the Yankees. Call me crazy, but listening to someone complain about being 28, stating their age, or how they translated the Iliad doesn’t exactly qualify as “broadening my horizons”…lol.
BTW, Rebecca, the girl Keith was talking about…you.
“Cairo should be on the team…..as the utility guy,and not no hit Chris Woodward”
They actually have exactly the same career OPS. Though, yes, Cairo did hit better last year. Woo.
I still think we could do better than someone who puts up an OPS in the .600s
Sorry, Journal American. Need stronger bi-focs.
Wow…God bless Southern Yankee!
Here’s a great Yankee story…
My Dad died in ‘59. Even though we live in Mass. he was an avid Yankee fan and made acquaintences with a few players such as Gil McDougald.
A few weeks after he died, my dad’s best friend Sam took my 2 older brothers to Boston for a Yankee/Red Sox game. I guess I was considered too young to tag along.
Sam knew the hotel the players stayed at in Boston. He and my brothers arrived at the hotel early and checked out the dining room. In those days the players often ate together.
Sam saw Casey Stengel and approached him, explaining that these 2 boys just had lost their dad. Casey invited my brothers to come on over and made room for them.
There sat my 2 brothers in disbelief that they were sitting at the breakfast table with Stengel,Skowron,Mantle,Berra and McDougald to name a few.
Sam had brought a yearbook in hopes of getting some autographs. The ‘59 yearbook had facsimile signitures of the players on each page. Casey passed the yearbook around and each player that was there signed it along side the fake signitures in the book.
We still have that yearbook in a safty deposit box. It’s autographed by Skowron, Mantle, Berra,McDougald, Elston Howard, Hank Bauer and more.
It’s stuff like this that makes you a lifelong fan like we are.
with middle relievers getting 3yrs/15M these days and relief pitchers in general having pretty good trade value at the deadline…
all Bruney has to do is pitch semi-decent and he’d make good trade bait later on. if he doesnt turn it around, then you dump him. if they can make the moves to keep him, considering he wont make much $$, i think it makes sense to give him one last shot.
after all, he wasnt that bad in the first half of the year. in fact, he become one of Torre’s go to guys. maybe he tired out (physically or mentally). if he pitches well in the first half, you spin him to another team. if not, no big deal… you toss him then.
Utility man-
Cairo=Nieves
Great clubhouse guy but cant hit a ball with a tennis rasket. And when he does, cant hit it over the fense if the were playing in a little league park. I appreciate what he did for us in 03(i believe). But his time has come and gone.
As far as Mussina, I agree. I hate his excuses and whining and showing up his teamates. Im counting down till the day he is traded or his contract is up.
I dont know if I’d make ANY trades with Billy Beane and the A’s. That guy always gets the best of every deal whether you realize it up front or not.
Look at his track record. The Beane more often than not seems to win. Jeff Weaver, Mulder, etc.
randy i.
how fast was Armstrong when you caught him? Did you ever catch anyone faster?
what are we going to do if pettitte and clemens are on the mitchell report?
Cairo is no Wil Nieves
He was a very nice guy,but couldnt hit the ball if it was a tee.
Seemed to hit decent during his stint as the 1B when Minky went down.
no way DeSalvo gets tossed
The topic of this blog should be old mans reunion.lol
Good point Boston Dave, Beane always seems to win in trades. If im not mistaken he got Haren in the Mulder trade.
Cairo actually did hit one over the fence this past yr,but it was caught by someone and brought back.
Yankee Jay–No offense taken…on slow days we tend to, well, wander
(no way they meant me. I don’t get hit on.)
Drive: That is an AMAZING story. I have nothing even remotely similar.
jorge jorge
what are we going to do if pettitte and clemens are on the mitchell report?
Oh no you didn’t! Andy????…please. He’s the last guy in the world that would cheat.
Cairo’s no Nieves. Anyway, I bet Cairo could catch in a pinch if needed. lol. Cuz he’s Utility Superman.
Was it on a softball field?
He did help out when Doug was hurt. I dont think we need to go outside to find someone. Just use Gonzalez from the minors. Its not like we have players that need to be pinch hit for. We also have Betimet to fill in as well.
Cairo could catch in a pinch if needed
So can Nieves.lol
Nice story randy-
I almost struck out an ex yankee in stickball.
I love Wilbert Nieves. You all bite your tongues!
Nah it was actually Yankee Stadium
Betemit is suppose to be in the 1B mix.
And Yes Cairo could catch in an emergency.
Andrea
He is a very lovable guy.
He was certainly a fan favorite the past 2 yrs in ST.
Does anybody know anymore about this supposed Matsui for Sanchez+ trade? Is this going to happen? Where the heck is Bobcat?
Bobcat is somewhere drinking beers with Dr. Acula, having a good laugh.
Cairo’s HR was against the Mets at Yankee Stadium but was caught by Gomez in LF.
Utility Man: I have a Wil Nieves tshirt
I guess Bobcat turned out to be a phony.
Some forget that non-tendering Bruney on 12/12/2007, does not mean that the Yankees are permanently barred from being his employer. It means three things: First, his roster space becomes available for someone believed more likely to be more useful to the Yankees (Rodriguez, Rivera, Hawkins, or someone else?). Second, it means that his salary for 2008 will be determined by mutual agreement between Bruney and his 2008 employer and not by an arbitration panel. Third, it means that he is free to negotiate with anyone he would like to be his employer in 2008, including the Yankees.
Remember that a number of other free agents will go on the market tomorrow when they are non-tendered by other teams, meaning that the market price for a Bruney may go down after tomorrow as other substitutes come on the market. If Bruney can get an offer of a major league contract from another team, I would expect him to take it. But, if not, he may have to take the best minor league contract he can get, at least until some team can clear space on the 40-man roster at the end of spring training. Let’s assume, arguendo, that Bruney has the hidden irreplaceable qualities that Girardi and Eiland would be able to bring out if they only had time to work with him. (Actually, I thought that Eiland was the pitching coach at Scranton when Bruney was optioned to Scranton in 2007). There is nothing to prevent the Yankees and Bruney from resuming their relationship if they so mutually desire on 12/13/2007, or after, by minor league contract, or otherwise.
I still think bobcat was legit. Am I crazy? lol
THANK YOU Andrea
I could not remember who the player was,but I do remember the catch.
drive 4-5
great story about your dad and your brothers.
armstrong was probably 96-97ish, but that was really fast back in 1990. jack was an unusual character. he was in the reds organization and he didn’t know who pete rose was. he had never followed baseball and i heard that he took up the game in his junior year in high school.
one day, tony cloninger, the pitching coach, showed jack how to throw a split fingered fastball. the first two times he threw it , the bottom fell out of it bouncing in the dirt in front of me. jack looked at cloninger and said”i can’t throw that pitch, it breaks too much.”
jack was a natural, but it’s an understatement to say he wasn’t a student of the game. nope- no one faster.
Nah, Bobcat has to be a phony. Notice he has not shown his face on here since Yanks pulled out of the Santana trade talks. He turned out to be wrong and bolted.
UtilityMan: anytime.
I’m hoping that Bobcat was legit…because if not, it means the fat majority of us are really gullible.
I mean, I know I am, but that’s supposed to just be me.
I though Bobcat was legit but when he never responded to Peter, I kind of think he may have played us. He could show up again though.
randy l.
Jack Armstrong is is still a character to thhis day. He’s now a anti steroid zealot.
In case you missed the Daily News article about Armstong the other day this is worth checking out.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2007/12/09/2007-12-09_former_allstar_jack_armstrong_hoping_to_.html
Maybe Bobcat is trying to figure out if the Yanks can still get Santanna,before the Twins accept Ellsbury,Lowrie,and 2 other minor leaguers for Johan.
Uh. Guys.
Thursday could be interesting.
“According to Daily News sources, the report is believed to contain 60-80 names of current and former players and is based in large part on information Mitchell received from former Mets clubhouse attendant Kirk Radomski.”
drive 4-5
Thanks for sharing that great family story.
Bobcat was/is the real deal, insider info with a Yankee bias.
Listened to M and MD on WFAN driving home this evening, the rumor 40-70 names, no current or past Red Sox. Won’t past the smell test in my house.
This was probably discussed on a thread yesterday, but I missed it so I’m going to say it again… Gagne: $10 million. From the Brewers. Insane.
Rebecca,
I think we should all be prepared doe some surprising names. I recently attended a talk where the princial speakers were Bob Costas and Fay Vincent. Vincent said that if the names of all users between the late 90’s and now were to come out, it would be about 300 players. He doesnt expect all the names to come out,but he wishes they would.
I heard Mike and Dog too and they didn’t say there were no past or curent sox. Only said IF there aren’t, people would question Mitchell’s involvement and Mitchell knows the report has to be above reproach so they don’t think he’ll spare the Sox if eveidence points that way.
how I typed the word “doe” instead of “for” is beyond me! lol
drive 4-5
you had a homer moment.
Drive: Easy. Your left hand was left of where it should have been.
Drive 4-5
I see how ya did that.LOL
Murphydog, drive 4-5, and others -
You sound like you have some great memories.
I started rooting for the Yankees in 1965 (of course), when I was 10 years old. My father, an old Brooklyn Dodger fan (we lived in Brooklyn), was probably mortified, but didn’t say anything. I remember him taking my brother and me to a Bat Day doubleheader on a Sunday in August at the Stadium. The gnats were out in force that weekend, and the city was spraying the Stadium. Still, the gnats came. I remember my father smoking cigars to create smoke to keep them away, while my brother and I admired our bats (Mickey Mantle and Joe Pepitone models).
I still have the bat (the Mantle one, of course).
As I remember, they won that doubleheader (KC, I think).
I’ve been a fan ever since.
Thanks Pat, I stand corrected. Had poor reception driving with my parked on the radio.
And Aaron Cook gets 3 years, 30 million extension from the Rockies, with a 11 million mutual option for 2012
So how does that compare to recent contracts for starters?
Your welcome ThatWasMe
My brothers beam about it to this day everytime the subject comes up. They especially still can’t believe they sat across the table from Mickey Mantle. And everyone of the players were as nice as could be to them.
Re: Mitchell Report
I wasn’t aware that Mitchell is a Red Sox….
“Tapping Mitchell, a Red Sox director, to lead the investigation furthered suspicions around baseball that the Red Sox might be treated more favorably in his report than the other clubs. That issue came to the forefront when word leaked just before the pivotal Game 6 of October’s ALCS between Cleveland and Boston, won by the Red Sox, that Indians pitcher Paul Byrd had purchased human growth hormone.”
So, don’t count on seeing any present day Sox on the list. What a joke.
Did anyone read the article by Howard Bryant on ESPN.com about the Mitchell investigation. There was some excellent insight (I know, surprising coming for ESPN) specifically in the conflict of interest that Mitchell has investigating steroid usage while still being employed by the Red Sox.
Here is the link if anyone wants to check it out…..
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3142651
There’s Bobcat wannabes out there right now in the planning stages of the next big proposed deal.
Gee I hope my favorite Miguel Cairo isnt on that list!!!
I might have to start liking A.Gonzalez instead.
good timing on the post Steve
The Bobcat thing reminds me of the movie Being There (Peter Sellers, Shirley MacLaine and many others). In that movie, Chance the Gardner is a simple man sheltered from the world for decades, who can only speak in tv advert slogans and aphorisms as the boob tube is his touchstone for reality. By “chance” (get it?) he is in an accident which brings him into contact with rich and powerful people who mistake his name for Chauncey Gardner (not “Chance the Gardener”) and mistake his simple pronouncements for wisdom.
For example, he says offhandedly “there will be growth in the Spring” and it is taken as an important insight into the economy, when all he really meant was that the grass and trees would come back in the spring. (There’s another funny one where he says “I like to watch” meaning the tv, which Shirley MacLaine misinterprets in an interesting way).
Bobcat’s statements were kind of like Chauncey Gardener’s pronouncements, for example, “You read what you are supposed to read” and “Impatience is expensive.” Yet I still think there may have been some truth to the whole Bobcat thing. If I was duped, oh well….
i’m not wishing bad fortune on anyone…unless they play for the Red Sox of course lol….but wouldn’t it be interesting if Johan Santana’s name came up? We would have been working ourselves up in a frenzy for nothing!
Seriously though, let’s hope there are no Yankees besides Giambi on this list. It’s the last thing we need.
I did a blog entry on Mitchell’s allegiance here:
http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com/2007/11/roid-rage-and-reportage-or-something.html
(for those who are interested)
Boston Dave
Did you also read the part where George Mitchell was at a Yankees Red Sox game with his kid wearing a Red Sox hat and asking for autographs from Red Sox players? Boy you can really count on the credibility of that guy.
Joe from Long Island
You’re a true yankee fan, son of a Dodger Fan, 1963 the Dodgers with Koufax and Drysdale swept us in 4 and then in 1964 we lost to the Cards and Bob Gibson (another I wished was a Yankee) in 7. Then came CBS, It was a tough period for all Yankees fans.
Jack Armstrong lives near me. His son is going to Clemson on a baseball scholarship. He could turn pro if he is drafted high enough after the ‘08 season. But, right now, he is Clemson bound.
He’s a real good guy and knows a lot about PED’s. He also looks like he can still play. He’s in great shape.
Another HS (not the one his son goes to) in Jupiter, FL (Jupiter Christian) was rife with steroid use among its wrestling and football programs.
In fact, one of the doctors from that now defunct Florida Pharmacy (who was supplying a lot of MLB players) was the guy supplying the kids at the school with PED’s.
Armstrong was one of the whistleblowers in the case.
I don’t think bobcat was a phony. He had too much info (info I know to be true) to be a phony.
One thing folks have to realize when it comes to information. When you work in or around the financial firms around MLB (and other sports), you are required to sign NDA’s (non-disclosure agreements) pledging not to divulge information pertinent to business goings on in the industry.
Bobcat was smart to get info up to, but not crossing, the line.
Its why he always said he is not in the “story breaking” business.
I suspect one of two things happened. One, someone “ratted him out” to his supervisors, thus curtailing his posting.
Or, he got to the point where he couldn’t answer any of the poster’s questions anymore without violating his PDA.
Its why its never a very good idea to ask too many questions on a blog when/if you receive information.
You read it, determine in your own mind whether its legit or not, and move on.
Pushing folks too hard for more info, just causes them to go away.
Hopefully, bobcat returns and is like any other poster in the blog and enjoys the give and take that is here each day.
As someone who is in the business, I enjoyed his posts and found them to be interesting and informative. However, I was also hoping he wouldn’t go too far because posting isn’t worth putting your job in peril.
Find it hard to believe that the Red Sox would escape this scandal.
I wish I had heard the name of the reporter, but on Charlie Wilson’s show on XM this afternoon, they were discussing the Mitchelll report and talked about how it is a good possibility that it will include a reference to institutional failure. What that means is that the blame is spread around; responsibility for PEDs is shared by players, management, the players association - everyone.
Another interesting thing the reporter said was that he recalls speaking to someone in management (I don’t know what level) about a particular player and whether he had anything to do with steroids; the person in management said the player didn’t care enough to use steroids. So there was in some instances probably a real push for players to use.
While I was listening to this interview, I thought how much has the nature of the free agent market contributed to both the temptation and the actual proactive decision to use steroids?
murphydog,
What a great analogy!
“You read what you are supposed to read” and “Impatience is expensive.” You can just hear Chauncey Gardener say that.
ThatWasMe
Believe me, they will escape with their hands clean and their @sses cleaner.
Steve
I hope you’re wrong but believe you’re probably not.
Joe from Long Island:
Nice memory. Dad, bro, cigars and baseball.
I used to go to Giant football games at Yankee Stadium with my dad a lot more often than we got to baseball games. (He had Giant season tickets). The Giants were bad too for a very very long time. The cigar in your story reminded me that the smell I will always associate with Yankee Stadium from those days was cigars, beer and, believe it or not, Aramis cologne because one of my dad’s football friends always had that stuff on. It’s funny what we remember.
Right guys, taken bets on when the names start getting leaked…
Remember, Harry Potter Seven was leaked, in its entirety, on the internet over a WEEK before official release…
Can you imagine the uproar in baseball if they elected someone like Randy Levine to run the steroid investigation? I just wonder why everyone just accept’s Mitchell. If it were me and I was a player implicated in the report, even if I was guilty, I would sue the crap out of MLB, Mitchell and the Red Sox just for good measure since they are his employers. People cannot allow this sham of an “investigation” to delude them into believing what his report has to say will be anything but propaganda.
From the ESPN article…a culture of steroid abuse in Boston…….
While much of the emphasis regarding steroid use has focused on West Coast teams such as Oakland, San Francisco and San Diego, three players who admitted to using steroids — Canseco, Jeremy Giambi and Paxton Crawford — spent time with the Red Sox. Another, the former American League MVP Mo Vaughn, admitted that in 1998 he used Pro-HGH, an oral form of human growth hormone. In 2000, Boston police found steroids and syringes in a car owned by shortstop Manny Alexander that had been loaned to the team batboy.
Rebecca:
If names were going to be leaked we would have heard them already. The report is released Thursday and we are already almost through Tuesday. It is a bit late for leaks.
Another thought I have is that I am not in favor of naming names in this report. It smells too much like a witch hunt in that naming the names will not accomplish much of anything. Will it improve the testing? No. Will it undo what’s been done? No. It will cause shame and embarrassment, though, and a lot of players will be booed by a bunch of hypocrits who were only too happy to cheer each and every juiced-up homerun.
I think a general statement as to the severity and depth of the problem with an admission of guilt by all the peripheral parties who were too financially invested to put a stop to the problem a long time ago would go further in helping to fix the problem. There needs to be better testing with money invested in research to detect HGH, and there needs to be a zero tolerance policy going forward.
Murph - Yes, it is funny what we remember. I don’t know why I remember that DH and Bat Day, but I do.
When I went to grad school in Chicago (U of C), I went to a lot of White Sox games, back when Bill Veeck owned the team. Before one game, they let the fans onto the field, so I went down with my friends. I was surprised to find that the outfield was pretty crummy, with divots, bald spots and the like. When I told my father that, he said “What do you expect, Yankee Stadium?!”
Well, this past summer, I went on a tour of the Stadium with my wife’s Adelphi Univ. alumni group. As part of the tour, we were allowed to walk on the field from the Yanks’ dugout to the bullpen and Monument Park. I made a point to check out the field, and sure enough, it was like a pool table, with very tight grass.
I thought of my father.
Rebecca,
Good blog post on Mitchell….. except you were off on your odds (20:1)
drive 4-5
thanks for the link. armstrong was always an intense character, and it was obvious he was a fitness fanatic. he did play with canseco and juan gonzalez in’ 94 with texas so he was around steroid users, but i don’t know about the wisdom of an ex player getting so revved up about the issue of peds.
i think peds were a systemic problem from the commissioner’s office on downward. owners and managements looked the other way. i wish that baseball would move forward with testing in place and not look back for scapegoats. the mitchell report is going to be big news , but what will it accomplish?
some players will be caught in the net, but for those who are caught it is so random that it seems pointless.
I think Buddha and Punk, of I Love NY II fame, are gonna be on the Mitchell list also!!
Steve: Aye, I guess so, but the ability to have kept it under wraps thus far is beyond surprising…
Boston Dave: You know, there’s a reason I’m not a bookmaker, and on the rare occasion I do bet–usually with my brother over the Super Bowl–I have a horrible record!
Did Rebecca just say that Harry Potter is going to be named in the Mitchell Report? This goes deeper than I thought.
LOL
No wonder Harry Potter’s voice is so high pitched. Maybe that is where magical powers come from. Everyone always refers to Big Papi being clutch as magic. Maybe there were on to something.
Anyone watching the Best Commercials of Sportscenter on ESPN? There have been some pretty good ones. Clemens did alot of them when he was with the Sox that I forgot about.
Doreen,
I’m with you. I would hope that there’s an airtight case behind every name mentioned. Otherwise, it really is just a witch hunt.
I think everyone is in agreement that we want the steroid era to be over. Maybe Fay Vincent is right in saying “sunlight is the best antiseptic”. We’re about to find out if he’s right or wrong.
sj44-
now that you mention armstrong getting involved because of his son playing in an area where high school steroids are a serious problem, it makes more sense for armstrong to be so outspoken.
i think everything possible should be done to discourage steroids especially with high school athletes, but i just don’t know how looking backward helps what’s happening now because peds were so widespread in mlb.
murphydog
December 11th, 2007 at 4:26 pm
Trust me, I’ve seen some real bad Yankee teams. Good Old CBS owned them then. Wow. Really bad. (How many of you remember team president Mike Burke?) Then there were the painful Mattingly-Winfield years, also long before most of you remember.
____________________________________________________
Ah, Yes. Michael Burke. The perfect choice by CBS to run the Yankees of those days. He was, after all, the former President and GM of Ringling Brothers-Barnum And Bailey Circus. In all fairness, Burke was a big time war hero in WWII. He was one of Wild Bill Donovan’s closest aides in the OSS. He also recruited a backup catcher and baseball eccentric, Moe Berg to spy in Germany and earlier in Japan. It was Berg’s photos that were used on the Tokyo bombing raid by Jimmy Doolittle.
I don’t know what the Mitchell Report will contain and I am anxious to read it myself and not just rely on some sportswriter’s hype or deadline driven oversimplifications. Not knowing what the report will say, as of right now I prefer it to having the players appear one by one in Washington, D.C. and answer under oath the question “Do you now or have you ever used PEDs?” As bad as naming names in a report could be, that other scenario would really smack of a witch hunt.
I do cringe at the fact that Mitchell has a monetary connection to the Sox, raised here on this blog by our own Rebecca. Yet Mitchell does have a fairly unimpeachable record of achievement, including helping to broker a (so far) lasting peace in Northern Ireland. I’m hoping that Mitchell recognizes the appearance of conflict even if it never becomes actual and tailors his report to the future more than the past, striving for a lasting peace between the fans and MLB.
For the future, high on my list is seeing MLBPA get in front of this HGH thing. Why can’t MLBPA help pay for research needed to develop a reliable HGH test? Why not assess all players a certain amount and present that sum to a research university?)
MLBPA also needs to be aggressive on doping instead of playing defense and stop being the Doubting Thomas on all current HGH tests. They want to be MLB’s partner in the money and other aspects of the game, but they get shaky when it comes to HGH and taking a strong stand on PEDs. That needs to change.
arod
clemens
sammy sosa
miguel tejada
pudge
maglio ordonez
mike piazza
thats whats being rumored so far, i guess we will wait and see if its for real
murph -
I agree. I don’t understand why the MLBPA doesn’t see how taking a strong initiative on research and testing actually is more supportive of the players it represents than their current stance.
Will the report be pubicly available to read?
GB7:
Wow. Nice intel on Burke, Berg and Doolittle.
Nick: LMAO!
That would certainly explain a lot! And I quite imagine Hagrid as his supplier…
Doreen:
I expect the report will be public. One of the major reasons it was done I thought was to restore public confidence in the game. Keeping it confidential would only make the whole issue 100 times worse.
“Maybe Fay Vincent is right in saying “sunlight is the best antiseptic”. We’re about to find out if he’s right or wrong.”
if players were using peds under his watch as commissioner, and he knew about it, how is he blameless? how could he not know about it? steroid use was common knowledge in those days.
vincent was basically an entertainment lawyer who rose to his level of incompetence as baseball commissioner. why he thinks he’s a baseball authority is beyond me.
Rebecca:
Given the recent information about Professor Dumbledore, do you think he was the one injecting Harry?
wouldn’t surprise me if red sox were listed, but none of them were part of the 2004 team or current team.
Steve: Depends what Harry was being injected with.
Anyway, “I imagine Dumblydore’s a bottom…
FWIW, the full quote, part of which was used by Fay Vincent, is one well known to, and well used by, lawyers:
“Publicity is justly commended as a remedy for social and industrial diseases. Sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants; electric light the most efficient policeman.”
Justice Louis Brandeis, Other People’s Money, and How the Bankers Use It, 1933.
Is it possible….
that the Yankees are waiting on the ARod deal until they see if he’s on the Mitchell Report?
I wouldn’t think so but maybe?