Wait a second, that’s all there is?
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- December
- 13
Senator Mitchell is lucky that Kirk Radomski was facing prison and was willing to rats guys out to get some time taken off his sentence. Otherwise the Mitchell Report would have been the size of a comic book.
Roger Clemens takes the biggest hit today. Turns out that that his vaunted work ethic came out of syringe. He’ll deny, I suspect.
Then what? If he wasn’t retired before, this clinches it. In five years voters will have to decide whether he belongs in the Hall of Fame.
I don’t know how much that report costs but I hope Bud Selig kept the receipt. He should get some money back.
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Peter Abraham
Peter, if Clemens wanted to come back there would be dozens of teams that would listen.
Biggest waste of time, money and hype ever.
What a major let down.To bad we got the wrong Left Hander in Pettitte…nice guy my @$$.Go get the LEGEND Santana.
Why is there is no Red Sox.
What a waste of money. He basically googled everything and threw in some info from a canary facing jail time.
Baseball got owned.
The no red sox tells u what kind of person Mitchell is.
This report is a HUGE disappointment. That’s all there is to this fire? It’s actually kind of shameful how full of holes it is.
It’s eff’d up Clemens is getting fried already for this-
and, maybe, justly so. But Pettitte- the facts as presented seem to not make him look that bad about all this….It seems like the Mitchell Report was just a report about what two trainers had to say!
If the Yankees traded for Santana, there would be an ammendment issued by Mitchell to include him.
ok, is there a place I can just see the list without going through the entire report?
Mmm, you can bite in and taste the politics (and by that, I also include the monetary waste)
So, anybody want to throw out odds of the Selig successfully diverting attention with this and miraculously avoid some kind of blame?
Roger Clemens takes the biggest hit today. Turns out that that his vaunted work ethic came out of syringe.
I think Pettite took the biggest hit today bcoz he is still playing. Clemens is pretty much retired. It may cost him in the in getting to HOF though.
Pete, everybody seems to be judging this report solely based upon the number of big name players it mentions. Can you comment on the recommendations Mitchell makes regarding the curtailing of PED use in the future. To me, that seems to be the most important issue here, despite the fact that the media and fans like to focus on the hoopla about Bonds and Clemens and who did what. Why would anyone expect a report with no subpoena power to produce a lot of results? This isn’t Mitchell’s fault, it’s baseball’s (all members). Let’s focus on curing the problem. What does he have to say about that?
Andrea December 13th, 2007 at 3:29 pm
ok, is there a place I can just see the list without going through the entire report?
Exactly what I am looking for. Can’t find it anywhere though.
How in the world can a person like Mitchell who sits on the Red Sox board realease a report listing quite a few Yankees but hardly any Sox? Isn’t he smarter than that? Doesn’t he know that puts the entire report’s legitimacy into question by a lot of people? Just ridiculous!
So I guess it was mostly yankees taking steriods? a couple red sox from the 80’s and a few from baltimore. Give me a break. mitchell’s a joke and so is this report. Go back to your seat on the board of the red sox and shut up.
On ESPN, this reporter from the Houston Chronicles said he knows Andy and thinks he must be humiliated and he wouldn’t be surprised if Andy walks away from the game now…
Is that possible even though he has already signed on for 2008?? I’m really worried…
Barry Bonds was killed for his steroid use. Roger Clemens is let away lightly by the media and fans.
Racism????
Mike (of M and the Mad Dog) makes a good point. There’s no actual proof, no paper evidence against Clemens. All they have this this guy saying this happened. Clemens could just deny it.
andrea, rebecca posted it in the previous thread
NYY: give it time. It’s only been an hour and a half since Clemens was accused.
How did Pettitte take a hit? WHen he supposedly took it, it was to get back from an injury? He wasn’t always on it.
Mike and Mad dog pointed out that there is NO paper trail for Roger, it is all hearsay. This all froma person who is trying to avoid jail time.
This report only proves one of two things that Mitchell is a fraud or that steriods were never that big a deal in the first place.
will: thanks!
Andrea and NYY –
The closest thing is this:
http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/12/13/live-blogging-the-mitchell-press-conference/#comment-227292
Joshua – I agree with your post that that is the heart of the manner, but why release the names then?? Wouldn’t that take the focus off your goal?? What legitimate reason is there to releasing the names which it so obviously detracts from the “true purpose” of the report?
If people can even consider Bonds for the Hall of Fame, which a lot of people seem to be doing, then Clemens is a lock.
If this report is true, he had already won 4 Cy Young awards before taking steroids.
As for Pettitte, well, he was in the same situation Pavano was in at the start of this season. (Remember all the stories with Pettitte trying to advise Pavano on it?) Apparently Pettitte took a few HGH shots and recovered ok, whereas Pavano took surgery and a 2 year recovery time (we all know Pavano won’t recover in less time). If those are the options, you can at least understand why someone would choose that. Doesn’t make it right to do it the way he did though. At least Paul Byrd has the “I have a doctor’s prescription” claim of semi-validity.
What about the guys who paid cash?
limited and as a result, slanted report. What a disgrace!
Andrea December 13th, 2007 at 3:29 pm
ok, is there a place I can just see the list without going through the entire report?————
This type of response is part of the problem. Everyone is so focused on the names of players from the past that no one actually wants to read the report (hundreds of pages) that details recommendations for cleaning up the sport in the future. I’m just as interested as anyone about who took roids and HGH but can’t we at least have some journalistic integrity and read the report to aware of the context?
NYY,
you think maybe the difference in reaction to bonds and clemens might just possibly be because one guy is a nice guy, and the other is, well, not?
Has Andy already signed the contract?
Andy will NOT walk away.
NYY
Bonds lied to a grand jury. Did Clemens?
Or at least read parts of it (I know a few hundred pages is too much to read straight through)
FYI Andy and Roger BOTH knew that this was coming as it said in the report that the contacted players when they got information and asked them to come in for interviews.
The Roger stuff seems much more harsh to me if valid as it took place over a number of years I actually forgot that he and Canseco were teamates. The Pettite thing looks to me like a one time thing and not a common occurrence.
http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/12/13/mitchells-list/
list
fat man on M& the MD just made a good point. There is no concrete evidence against Roger and Andy. Just the one trainer’s account of what happened, no papper trail, no cancelled checks, so that leaves me to believe one thing…. They still did it!!!!
“Barry Bonds was killed for his steroid use. Roger Clemens is let away lightly by the media and fans.
Racism????”
Look up McGwire, Mark
One other thing…this whole thing about Roger Clemens and him throwing the bat towards piazza makes senses now.
In our country, one should be innocent until proven guilty. How can George Mitchell named names and tarnished someone’s legency without giving them a chance to defend themselves first?
And how can Mitchell get away with the responsibility of having to comprehensive evidence and witnesses that fairly represent the entire league and every team?
The report is based on so-called evidence that is one-sided and self-selecting. There is major flaw is this so called investigation that costed millions of tax-payers’ money.
I can’t wait for Mike Lupica’s unique take on all this, he so unpredictable.
You Yankees fans need to get a grip. This report PROVES BEYOND DOUBT that the Red Sox and their players NEVER did anything shady to potentially enhance performance or recover quicker from injury – well, at least their IMPORTANT players. The Yankees, on the other hand, are guilty beyond doubt of being a collection of roided out mercenaries. The Red Sox are good and the Yankees are bad. Finally, thanks to the objective work of Sen. Mitchell, we know all of this for a fact.
“without giving them a chance to defend themselves first? ”
Everyone he mentioned he asked to come in and speak to them, they declined
I’m a huge Yanks and Pettitte fan but if you read the report- I think the most damning thing for each of them is their allegiance to a trainer who is obviously very comfortable with using PEDs as part of the regime. Their is no actual proof and I see no grounds for punishment, etc. but they have stood by, and trained with, a guy for many years who clearly uses these things in the program. That stigma is not good.
rodg12: I think there is some validity in releasing the names so that more investigations can take place. Perhaps now that some names are out in the public it will encourage baseball to conduct a more powerful investigation (one with actually authority). With everything staying behind closed doors there is no initiative to solve anything.
That said, I think you’re right that releasing the names is somewhat counterproductive. What I think should have happened is that the names should have been separated from the part of the document that deals with recommendations for the future. Perhaps the names could have been released once the other parts had been digested.
Just a thought…
Forget politics or anything else…
This was blown way out of proportion for the information that was delivered. This is in no way complete or informative.
It’s over, the Yankees need to suspend all participation at every level with baseball. This is a biased disgrace.
I said it before nd I’ll say it again: if you can listen to Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band and not care that it was created under the influence of LSD and regard it as a musical masterpiece, then you can regard Roger Clemens, McGwire, et al as great baseball players who do belong in the Hall of Fame.
My feeling is that half of players use, regardless of this report.
Where’s Sammy Sosa on the list? Good thing the Senator did a thorough job investigating performance-enhancing drug use in MLB.
Joshua: I’m interested in reading parts of the report at some point. But I am curious because I missed the announcement that was made on the radio and I just want to know real quick. I have every intention of reading some parts—if I can handle it.
However, I don’t really know if Mitchell’s methods for “cleaning up the sport in the future” are the way that I could go about it. I’m also not really into this entire report based on hearsay. But it’s worth a read. But for now, I just felt left out having not heard the announcement.
Breaking news:
Rasner will return.
But Rasner will still be invited to the Yankees Spring Training with a chance to make the 2008 Major League roster. Rasner’s father said his son will be given the chance to make the Big League club as a spot starter and long reliever.
Oh no The Dude thats fine. The Yankees are bad, the Red Sox are good. Luckily for MLB I don’t own the Yankees cuz if I was I’d take my ball and go home. No more All Star game at Yankee Stadium, find someplace else.
Sosa was not on the list, never failed a test, now does he get into the HOF?
Sosa never played in New York, so no he is not on the list.
THE WHOLE THING COST 60 MILLION DOLLARS !!
Mean Mr. Mustard:
While I agree with you in theory, in practice there is a huge difference between the Beatles taking drugs and athletes taking drugs.
Both cases deal with illegal substances, but there is no proof (only subjective opinion) that drugs enhance musical performance. Some people like the Beatles albums that were made “under the influence” and others don’t. You can charge the Beatles with a crime for possessing LSD or whatever but it doesn’t really translate into objective judgments of their albums.
On the other hand, the strength and healing abilities that are enhanced by PEDs are not subjective. While it is uncertain how much steroids help any given player, we can scientifically document how steroids OBJECTIVELY help you hit a baseball further (assuming you are good enough to put the bat on the ball in the first place). They also are objectively known to quicken the healing process which objectively means a player can perform for more time on the field.
You’re right, the Beatles albums MIGHT be better because of the drugs. But it’s not the same thing as baseball players DEFINITELY gaining certain advantages from performance enhancing drugs.
Manny Alexander
Chad Allen
Rick Ankiel
David Bell
Mike Bell
Marvin Benard
Gary Bennett, Jr.
Larry Bigbie
Barry Bonds
Ricky Bones
Kevin Brown
Paul Byrd
Alex Cabrera
Ken Caminiti
Jose Canseco
Mark Carreon
Jason Christiansen
Howie Clark
Roger Clemens
Paxton Crawford
Jack Cust
Brendan Donnelly
Chris Donnels
Lenny Dykstra
Bobby Estalella
Matt Franco
Ryan Franklin
Eric Gagné
Jason Giambi
Jeremy Giambi
Jay Gibbons
Troy Glaus
Juan Gonzalez
Jason Grimsley
Jose Guillen
Jerry Hairston, Jr.
Matt Herges
Phil Hiatt
Glenallen Hill
Darren Holmes
Todd Hundley
Mike Judd
David Justice
Matt Karchner
Chuck Knoblauch
Tim Laker
Mike Lansing
Paul Lo Duca
Xavier “Nook” Logan
Josias Manzanillo
Gary Matthews, Jr.
Cody McKay
Kent Mercker
Bart Miadich
Hal Morris
Daniel Naulty
Denny Neagle
Rafael Palmeiro
Jim Parque
Andy Pettitte
Adam Piatt
Todd Pratt
Stephen Randolph
Adam Riggs
Armando Rios
Brian Roberts
John Rocker
F.P. Santangelo
Benito Santiago
Scott Schoeneweis
David Segui
Gary Sheffield
Mike Stanton
Ricky Stone
Miguel Tejada
Ismael Valdez
Mo Vaughn
Randy Velarde
Ron Villone
Fernando Vina
Rondell White
Jeff Williams
Matt Williams
Todd Williams
Steve Woodard
Kevin Young
Gregg Zaun
Andy will not retire. He knew he would be in the report when he signed. Mitchell approached all of the implicated players to give them a chance to defend themselves.
So he caught the ones who wrote out checks. How about the next 50 million of Mitchells research go to finding out who paid by credit card,money order,cash,food stamps etc.
What a complete waste of time. I think we can all agree that Selig has to go down as one of the dumbest and worst commisioners in all of sports. Having a Sox employee do the investigation was totally foolish. I hope congress steps in and does something about Selig and the players union. Like suspend Fehr and Selig for knowing what was going on for years now. For using this fake investigation to make us think they are getting to the bottom of this. When in reality it was a smoke screen.
Way to waste 50 mil and the time for info that could have been gathered in a week. Just be reading the papers.
Congratulations, Sammy Sosa! This report clears you of any wrongdoing. You are now the true home run king with your pure, clean 66 home runs in 1998. Viva Sosa, and viva Sen. Mitchell!
Andrea:
That’s fair enough.
I’m not saying I agree with Mitchell’s recommendations for the future, just that the names are distracting people for some really important decisions about the future of baseball.
Lupica’s begins about a bellman in a NYC hotel, just a regular Joe kind a guy. The regular guy sets the theme for the story (and Lupica never does this) about big names.
Joshua: true, but if there were no names, chances are people wouldn’t even care about the report.
Just a question- why didn’t Mitchell talk to the Red Sox trainers? He’s a Director there, don’t tell me he didn’t have the power.
Andrea:
It’s sad, but I think you’re probably right that no one would be that interested. But that’s not only true with baseball, society in general places more emphasis on name value than real substance.
the fact that Sosa is not mentioned takes all credibility away from this report.
Work is getting in the way of fun today. How is McGwire not on the list?
Mitchell used two New York area informants. One of which is facing jailtime, which is just convenient for Mitchell. I am very curious why, for spending 60 million dollars or whatever, he didn’t at least look into other sources. There is not a single current Red Sox player on that list, which just doesn’t make much sense. Whether I’m beating a dead horse or not, I think there is at least a few current Red Sox that have been involved with steroids.
where is mcgwire on this list?
Tek: Mark McGwire isn’t on the list either.
LOL! This is strange. Didn’t I just read a few days ago where Ortiz said that he wasn’t sure if he took steroids or not because of what might have been in the supplements he took while in the DR? LOL! This report, while possibly a good start, is so biased from a credible side because it is only slanted from NYM clubhouse & NYY clubhouse & Grimsley. Albeit, I probably would not have included Canseco because of his book deals, there must have been ways to bring each Teams clubhouse personel & address them in more detail.
And why list names of players if all there is on them is inuendo or a comment by someone.
This kind of bias and possible notriety of a clubhouse person could lead to book deals & movies. How many others will want to do the same $$$. Like “My life in Boston Supplying the Juice”. This is just the beginning. Wow! How could MLB be so stupid!
Sixty million bucks could have been better spent with a real cleanup program not like the rinky-dink one that exists.
Mitchell’s esteem went right down the toilet bowl for heavy reliance of information from 2 trainers ratting out and accepting a plea deal. The report was a flat out flop.
Ortiz not being on this list is a disgrace, look at his numbers pre Red Sox, give me a break.
Jose Canseco, author of “Juiced,” played for the Red Sox in 1995 and ‘96. He said he hasn’t been contacted by Mitchell’s investigators.
I don’t want to sound like sour grapes, but how could Mitchell have NOT questioned Canseco? Especially about his Red Sox years? In ‘95 the Red Sox signed Canseco the largest free agent contract of any player that year and the largest contract of his career.
The information against Clemens is very substantial and very damning. A disastrous day for the Rocket. If Bonds doesn’t get into the Hall of Fame due to steriods, then how can Clemens get in?
So can we get rid of Andy Pettitte now?
The ALL STEROID TEAM – Unidentified Suspected Players
C – Piazza & Pudge & Varitek
1B- McGwire & Sexson
2B- Kent & Vidro
SS- Garciapara
3B- Pujols & Beltre
OF- Sosa & S. Finley & S. Green
OF- Albert Belle & Guerrero
OF- Brady Anderson & M. Ramirez & L. Walker
DH- D. Ortiz
SP- Schilling
SP- A. Burnett
SP- Mulder
SP- Hampton & B. Colon
SP- Chuck Finley
RP- Dotel
CL- Foulke & Mantei & Nen
Pete: Any take on why coverage of Mitchell’s Red Sox board membership/paid advisor role conflict of interest issue has been virtually nonexistent? The mentions have been few and far between (e.g., Ken Davidoff of Newsday, Selena Roberts of the Times, and Howard Bryant of ESPN). One would think that the sports press would be all over this angle.
I hate seeing Pettitte and Clemens getting burned today as much as anybody. But I don’t think we should go overboard with Mitchell conflict of interest charges. He’s a former federal judge and has been involved with peace negotiations around the world.
His biggest mistake was that he should have permanently broken ties with the Red Sox as soon as he took on the investigation. Absent of that disassociation,he should have at least done more investigation about the Red Sox than any other team. When he didn’t even interview Canseco about his Red sox playing days, he left himself open to criticism.
It is a sad day for Yankee fans across the world. Clemens is not a surprise being on the list. But Dandy Andy broke our hearts and so did Chuck Knoblauch.
Senator joe McCarthy had lists too. The numbers changed on those lists depending on how drunk he was. Where is the proof? A couple of canaries? Whatever happened to due process? Also, how come there are no Red Sox? This charade is so compromised it should be being examined according to Pete’s headline—that’s all there is? Hopefully, saner folk will see the real story here is a witch hunt and botched investigation. This is a real smear job. Unless there are smoking guns, or guys fess up, we will never know the truth.