Light shed on a dark corner in baseball
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- December
- 14
In reading through the Mitchell Report, the senator offers MLB advice on what should happen moving forward.
Two suggestions caught my eye: He wants a process to account for packages players receive at the clubhouse and background checks for clubhouse employees.
This makes a lot of sense. I started covering baseball in New York in 2000 and it always has amazed me how much power that the clubhouse managers and their assistants have. Their jobs seem pretty simple. They’re supposed to keep the place clean, do laundry and help with the equipment.
But in covering the Mets and Yankees, I’ve seen players hand clubhouse guys thousands of dollars to run errands, wash their cars, pick up friends at the airport, etc. Apparently, getting them steroids as well at Shea Stadium. The “clubbies” do everything.
It’s pretty common knowledge around baseball that players who are cheating on their wives will have a clubbie get him a second cell phone so he can talk to his girlfriend. The bill is then sent to the clubhouse. Obtaining steroids seems to work the same way. I can guarantee you that the cash transactions that Mitchell couldn’t account for were likely handled by clubbies.
In most cases, teams have no idea who these clubbies are. The clubhouse manager hires who he wants and his assistants are usually paid in tips. Alex Rodriguez has his own clubbie with the Yankees, a guy who literally stands there and holds drinks for him.
You hear stories all the time of clubbies getting $50,000 SUVs from players or trips to Vegas. What sorts of favors are you going for somebody when that is the reward?
For decades, baseball has operated with few outsiders peering behind the curtain. If Mitchell accomplished anything, perhaps he convinced owners and general managers to take a better look at who works most closely with the players.
Kirk Radomski got his start folding towels. Maybe if somebody was paying closer attention, he wouldn’t have started a drug ring.
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on Friday, December 14th, 2007 at 12:17 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Peter Abraham
Great insider stuff, Pete. Thanks for the insight.
*Repost*
‘Morning all,
*Good commentary by all the Yankee fans here. SJ44, if I was stuck in an elevator 44 floors up, I’d want you in there. You are so calm when others overreact.
*While the report has some interesting things in it, it really doesn’t deserve much merit because it was not done well at all. Totally unprofessional and embarrassing. As one analyst wrote, it looks like they backed into the report.
*Love the Suzy Waldman histrionics. Keep it up, Liza!
*I think the trolls know that using “your” incorrectly drives me nuts. I mean, they gotta know that, right? Otherwise, why would anybody who finished high school in the United States keep doing. Repeatedly.
*As the King of the Hill, the Yankees continue to take shots. Character-building shots. But they’ll never be able to kill the Yankees.
*Can’t wait for this stuff to blow over, it’s so dull.
*And finally, that little “nugget” about Johan’s demands? Sounds like the Twins are trying to get the Sox in the mood again. Everyone knows that only one team would meet and, more likely, exceed those terms. They’re trying to make Minnesota get off the couch and into the bedroom.
*trying to make Boston get off the couch and into the bedroom*
Hey Pete, the Gershwin lyric for Clubbies,
” nice work if you can get it!”
That’s what I want to do in my next career, hold drinks for A-rod…I promise nothing more than soft drinks!”
One question.
How do I become a clubbie?
A Rod has 12 cell phones.
Propaghandi
December 14th, 2007 at 12:24 pm
One question.
How do I become a clubbie?
————
having a stash of steroids helps I guess.
Great quote by Heyman:
Some will say Mitchell is compromised by being a director of the Boston Red Sox and personal friend of Selig. I say, that is absurd. He is a 74-year-old man with an impeccable reputation, and he isn’t throwing it all away because he loves his Sawx.
I’m a Yankee fan but I completely agree.
Peter,
Sounds like an interesting outline for a novel. I’d buy it.
Yanksrule52:
He came on another name and said he was banned.
and also… You’re willing to compromise Idiot Face?!?! He never did anything to anyone, his name was just Idiot Face!
Obviously, Im joking. But It does feel sometimes that Peter strokes his E-ego sometimes and runs the board a little to much like a dictatorship. Thats just my opinion on the posting side of the blog. With that being said, he does a fantastic job with the updates and keeping everyone informed, Im just saying a ridiculous person saying ridiculous things can be entertaining and healthy at times.
Yanksrule52:
trying to give you a response, but blog wont let me. Its not rude in anyway, either…
You figure some of that stuff was going on, especially the cell phones. Some of the other stuff seems weird though. The players trust the clubhouse guys that much? Wow!!
Yanksrule57 not 52…
I like that post, Pete. Fans love inside information like that. Reminds me of Jim Bouton’s Ball Four with all the details of baseball life that fans don’t get to know about. Remember, he was lambasted by those inside of baseball while fans and writers saw it as a turning point. Now it’s seen as a watershed in baseball writing. Interesting how now another inside culture is being divulged to the public…
Marc -
It doesn’t matter. A truly honorable person would have realized that his association with a MLB team and Selig would taint the report - no matter what. Judges and lawyers recuse themselves all the time for this very reason.
Dr. Cox,
As my son likes to say, “it’s all good.”
Marc -
George “Red Sox” Mitchell could easily keep his impeccable reputation in tact by simply not investigating certain players, teams, trainers. No is saying he lied, but I firmly believe he looked harder in some places that others.
As for the Red Sox front office emails. Those are hardly scathing, and reek of evidence simply included to make him look fair and balanced.
It breaks my heart to read Yankee fans agreeing with an “investigation” led by a BOSTON RED SOX FRONT OFFICE ADVISOR.
Pete, why did you and John Delcos switch teams? Is there a “team burnout” or something? Are you a fan of either team or just a great sports reporter?
I heard one of your colleagues (different venue but don’t want to write his name in case the Yanks really do have people read all of this) comment about the difficulties of covering the Yankees because what is a should be a baseball season of coverage becomes a year round job including running down to Tampa, etc. Is it different with the Mets? Maybe this should have been in an e-mail–I guess I’ll find out. Thanks for all the great work.
i’m sure it’s been said but if not, I find it funny that all these red sox fans keep calling for clemens and all the yankees heads when in fact if you look at clemens numbers you can speculate when clemens started taking roids. look at his last four years in boston, here is his innings, 190, 170, 140, 240. guess who showed up to play for boston in his second to last year. thats right, jose canseco. clemens seemed to be completely whiped out, well after canseco showed up he become a innings eater all of a sudden. does this prove he took roids? of course not. but I find it funny that all you red sock trolls are having fun about all the yankees in the report when clemens started using with boston.
We have Dr. Cox, Dr. Acula and the todd on this board. No love for Bob Kelso? Am I going to have to change my handle?
the todd,
Colin (I’ll say anything to get attention)Cowherd was saying essentially the same thing today on his program. He was telling the Sox fans, not so fast, you might want to look at this a little deeper before you start throwing stones. It may be coincidental, but when added to the McNammee stuff it won’t exactly make Roger’s clearing his name any easier.
Thanks Pete for the insider view. I must admit the images of clubbies in $50k SUVs and Alex’s clubbie drink-holder make me think of guys like Kevin Federline and his hangers-on…I need to rush out and get me more Babe Ruth tapes and regress back to my innocent fan bubble while chanting “baseball is America’s favorite pastime, baseball is American’s favorite pastime…”
I still think there are a lot of hearsay and unsubstantiated “evidence” in the Mitchell Report. But regardless of the degree of truth, all this has been educational yet undoubtedly sad.
Marc — Thanks for your comment. I am a Sox fan (I know this the territory of the Evil Empire), but some of the comments here at LoHud and other Yankee blogs really surprise me. Mitchell has been a US Federal prosecutor, judge, senator, and ambassador. He only agreed to chair the investigation because Bud Selig put enormous pressure on him. Mitchell knew that he would be accused of either a white-wash or witch-burning, depending on your attitude to baseball and performance-enhancing drugs. As many mistakes as Selig has made, he knew that an investigation had to be made, and he needed a guy with a reputation inside and outside of baseball. For all the critics, who would you have chosen? An ex-agent? A lifetime front-office guy? Ken Starr? My take is that Mitchell did a credible job in the face of near-open hostility from the MLPA. I just don’t buy the syllogism that is thrown around here: “Mitchell works for the Red Sox, Mitchell is biased, his report has no merit.” The fact that any player (pick your favorite villain) is not mentioned means nothing given the purpose and scope of what Mitchell was asked to do.
Does anyone know if Steve Phillips was the Met GM when Kirk Radomski was working there? If not who was?
ha!
Canseco is now claiming that he doesnt believe that Clemens used steroids…
its on cnnsi.com
Does anyone know if Steve Phillips was the Met GM when Kirk Radomski was working there? If not who was?
he was
Fernando Vina was named in the report and he works for ESPN
John Kruk played alongside Dykstra
This goes everywhere
So Alex has a “Fave 60″?
Just saw a Mitchell soundbite, “All 30 clubs have had someone who was involved with drugs”. Huh? 86 players? 30 clubs? That’s alot of degees of separation. Didn’t see any current Angel outfielders who were in the database of a Florida pharmacy. Didn’t see any current Brewers relievers who actually served a suspension for failing a drug test.
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/news/mitchell/players.jsp
Let’s go back to yakking about Manny being Manny, Wanger and his sun cakes(?), and the Melky+Igawa+Farnsy+Pavano for Sanatana trade proposals. I’m getting depressed by all this reality.
its funny, i keep hearing one player or another mouthing off at how the Mitchell Report cleared their name. “see i wasnt in the mitchell report, i am clean!!” to me, that seems almost more incriminating….”look i didnt get caught! they didnt talk to/ask my clubhouse attendant anything….” guys running around shooting their mouths off now are the ones who, TO ME, are the most guilty….
here’s a questions that no one has even attempted to answer:
Why in the world is a former senator employed as a Director or “advisor” to a major league baseball club?
Is he like all those former politicians who are hired by corporations to LOBBY congress on their behalf? If so, then doesn’t it prove that Mitchell’s master is the Red Sox organization. And if so, then shouldn’t he have definitely recused himself?
And what really get’s my goat is WHY AM I THE ONLY ONE ASKING THIS QUESTION? Why is this little fact getting a free pass by the press? Why isn’t a reporter someone asking about Mitchell’s relationship with the Sox and what his exact duties are as “Director”. Perhaps it would shed some more light on whether his direction of this report is or is not in fact a conflict of interest.
As much as I’d like to believe him, Canseco is far from the reliable truth sayer he thinks himself to be.
I said it before and Ill say it again: I wish someone would just put a bullet in the back of Canseco’s head.
OF ALL THE DRAMATIC, DID YOU KNOW THEY HAVE THE INTERNETS ON AIRPLANES?!?!?!?!?!?! THESE TEARS ARE FOR ME, OF ALL THE DRAMATIC, I WANT TO BE RAWJAH’S CLUBBIE, BUT AFTER WHAT THAT JORGE BELL, OF ALL THE DRAMATIC, DID TO ME, I DON’T LIKE BEING IN THE CLUBHOUSE, UNLESS IT’S TO CRY TEARS, FOR THE COACHES!!!! I’LL BE ON THE GROUND IN HOUSTON, OF ALL THE DRAMATIC, SHORTLY!!!!! I’VE MADE A DEAL WITH NASA TO SHRINK ME AND DRIVE ME OVER TO RAWJAH’S HOUSE WHERE KOBY WILL INJECT ME INTO RAWJAH’S BACKSIDE SO I CAN, OF ALL THE DRAMATIC, HEAL HIM FROM THE INSIDE OUT!!!!!!! IF YOU SEE JOHN STERLING, OF ALL THE DRAMATIC, TELL HIM I’M SORRY FOR THROWING HIM OUT THE WINDOW OF THE BOOTH, BUT HE WOULDN’T, OH MY, LET ME USE HIS LAPTOP FOR MY TOP-SECRET INTERNETS SURFING!!!!!! TOODLES — RAWJAHLUVAH420
Call me cynical, but any and every politician I knew and know has the ethics and morals that are just slightly below that of your neighborhood crack addicted prostitute. Mitchell has a pristine reputation because no one has looked in his closet, not because he is pure as the driven snow.
Dan South Hadley, MA: Jayson, despite what Mitchell has claimed, do you think there was any bias in favor of the red sox? I noticed many names were those who were key components to the Yankees championship runs (Clemens, Pettitte, Justice, Knoblauch, Stanton) and others were role players during those runs( Velarde, G. Hill, R. White, D. Naegle,) and a few others (Giambi, Sheffield, Brown, Villone) have been on the Yankees in recent years. It seems striking to me that obviously many names have yet to surface, but so many of the ones that have are related to the Yankees, and yet only two, Vaughan and Alexander, are linked to the Red Sox. Body sizes would indicate Nomar, Trot (who gained about 25 pounds in one off season)and Kapler to be prototypical steroid users, but yet no prominent Red Sox figures of the last decade were listed. It is hard to ignore these facts seeing Mitchell’s relation to the Red Sox
Jayson Stark: (12:51 PM ET ) Look, I regard George Mitchell as a man who has had a very distinguised career, and appears to be a man of great integrity. But he should have understood the appearance of this conflict of interest. He should have known questions like this would emerge. I don’t believe he intentionally set out to name Yankees and ignore Red Sox. But if it even looks that way, given the circumstances, he has to understand he put himself in a position to be accused of lack of ethics.
Suzy it is getting very old.
to call mitchell the director of the red soxs isn’t accurate. He sits on the Board of Directors of the red soxs.
Brad
I appreciate your opinion about Mitchell but the problem doesnt lay in what he actually did. It lays in the appearance of impropriety. Even if Selig put pressure on him, he should have refused the job. There is just no way that someone can keep their own biases out of their investigation. Would you hire George Steinbrenner to do an investigation on whether their should be a salary cap in baseball? Would you hire George Bush to do an investigation on the validity of the Iraq War? The point I am trying to make is that if a director of the Yankees did this report and prominent players from the Red Sox were involved you would have a problem with it too. It is impossible for anyone to be unbiased when they are personally involved in the situation. And even more so when that person is obtaining autographs from the people he is supposed to be investigating.
letting people look behind the players’ curtain is fine. i’m a big believer in transparency, but it goes two ways. mitchell and selig need to have their ownership cloak of secrecy removed also.
sleaze just drips off of selig and mitchell. one’s a used car salesman at heart and the other was a lobbyist for big tobacco. they are in the game not for the love of the game but the love of the business of the game.
roger clemens, whatever his shortcomings, was a player’s player. he paid his dues on the field to the game. i don’t see jeter complaining about clemen drilling him on a regular basis when he was with the blue jays while allegedly on peds. jeter is the kind of guy that mitchell says he ’s trying to protect; the kind of player who has to compete clean against players who aren’t.
the problem with this kind of reasoning is that players like jeter don’t complain. fans have to ask themselves why they don’t complain. the reason is that it is an in house problem, one player against another player.
as an in house problem, it should be cleaned up by the players, but the player’s association has been out to lunch on doing their part. by having the player’s association slack off on this issue, it’s opened the door for opportunistic organisms like mitchell to come into the game.
does anyone think that a big chunk of that 60 million or whatever that was spent didn’t find it’s way into george mitchell’s pocket?
there’s a difference between kirk ramdomsky and george mitchell, but they’ve both figured out a way to make money from a game they never played. a case could be made that neither has anything to do with why we love the game.
the game will survive both of them. spring training in 8 weeks.
Suzyn,
I think you should get Dr Cox’s email so he can talk you down off the ledge.
Marc -
I disagree with you as well. Mitchell may have an impeccable reputation, but he soiled it here.
There is no way for a member of any team’s Board of Directors to produce a report of this type and maintain the appearance of impartiality. Even if he was impartial, it simply can’t look that way.
This is especially the case when a report produced by a member of the Boston Red Sox front office focuses prominently on the misdeeds of players for the New York Yankees. The bitter rivalry between the two teams just makes this all the more suspicious.
This is the case even if the report was done completely impartially. It may well be that Mitchell’s best informants (Radomski, McNamee) simply were people associated with New York teams, so most of the names were New York players. His association with the Red Sox gives the appearance of bias, and undercuts his conclusions.
This is why judges recuse themselves, and why jurors are dismissed for cause. George Mitchell of all people should have known enough to decline this assignment.
Big Al–
Just like any board people are named for all kinds of reasons. Banks have boards, major companies have boards the Red Sox have a Board of Directors as do the Yankees. There Board is under the company of Yankee Global Enterprises, LLC. I do not know who is on that Board other then Hank, Hal and Feliz Lopez but I imagine if someone got the list the names would be interesting.
I will say this again just because he sits on the Board and there are no current Red Sox it means absolutely nothing. Just like Sammy Sosa, Mark McGuire just because there are no red Sox doesnt mean they didnt have anyone it has NOTHING to do with him being on the Board of Directors.
he was asked very specifically at the end of the press conference yesterday about this relationship by John Heyman of Si.com and it has been brought up by many media.
Brad in Boston,
You forgot to mention that Mitchell brokered peace in Ireland and the Middle East.
Just kidding with you.
randy l,
Excellent post! I am really curious just how much Mitchell personally received from MLB for this. And talk about a COI, did he waive his directors pay from the sox during the past 18 nonths or id he “double dip? A serious and objective media would be asking questions like this.
sorry I can’t type well today.
Big Al
You aren’t the only one asking the question. As soon as Mitchell was named there grumblings about what a bad idea this was.
Selig could have asked Mother Theresa(if she were still alive of course) to do this report…but if she was a friend of Buds and/or worked for the Sox then the same problem of conflict of interest would arise.
Of course that would never have happened - Mother T was a Yankees fan.
Mike R, I love scrubs but one thing I can’t stand is that the whole storyline with JD and Dr Acula was completely stolen from stand up comedian Mitch Hedberg. He had that joke before JD used it. As a comedy writer myself it pisses me off when people steal jokes.
Suzyn:
As funny as you were about two hours ago. I have to agree its getting old.
That being said. Jump.
MIGAMES -
You are right Mitchell sits on the board of directors for the Boston Red Sox. His name sits atop their masthead on Redsox.com, below Henry, Werner & Lucchino.
You mentioned the ESPN connection in an earlier post. Not only are the analysts strangely connected, but Mitchell served on Disney’s board, which owns ESPN.
I believe Mitchell shyed away from implicating his invested interests & employers. He could have easily done this without breaking any ethical codes. The scope of what he was aked to review was so wide, he didn’t have to look “under every stone.”
a couple of points:
first, does anyone know how much this actually cost? some people are saying $20mil others are saying $60mil. does anyone have the actual figure?
second, with mitchells position with the redsox, shouldn’t that have made it easier for him to talk to clubbies/staff with the redsox? i understand that the reason so many yankees were mentioned was ‘only’ because the sources were from new york. holding a position on the board of directors should have allowed him some access to sources on the sox. the fact that nothing came out about this makes me think that there was an attempt to avoid digging too hard about his own team.
but he brokered peace in northern ireland, so that couldn’t be the case.
and he was a us senator. they don’t let anyone who isn’t of the highest moral fiber into the senate, do they.
I think you’re overstating the role clubbies play in the steroid era. Obviously, Radomski was a clubbie, but for the most part, I think trainers and independant dealers who the players know are responsible.
I was a minor league clubbie for several years. There were steroid and greenie users on in the league. Some got their drugs from trainers, but most of them got them from dealers, much like most people who smoke weed or crack get it from a dealer. Most guys involved in the drug trade have no connection to the team, which is why most of them haven’t been caught. It’s a little easier to trace the steps of someone who is directly connected to the organization.
Pete, I’ve noticed in many of your posts you seem to look down at clubbies and you seem to think you’re better than they are. You think they just “pick up jocks and watch towels,” but there’s a hell of a lot more to it. You’re responsible for making the players feel as comfortable as possible so they dont have to worry about anything before the game. Players like to confide in clubbies and often consider them friends. Each player has a unique personality and you have to know how to cater to that personality to make that player as comfortable and happy as possible.
Clubbies put in a ton of work and players appreciate all that work. When really rich people appreciate the job you do, they’re often very generous with their tips. The reason you dont understand the dynamic between clubbies and players is because your relationship, as a reporter, is a completely different dynamic. It’s a Clubby’s job to make players happy, it’s a reporter’s job to dig up stories and get quotes and (in many cases, not necessarily your’s) they often annoy and irritate players. The difference in the dynamic makes it awfully hard to understand but it most certainly doesn’t mean everyone who’s getting a great tip is dealing drugs. Most players enjoy their clubbies and consider them to be friends. Many people with money take care of their friends.
Gayle, I understand the purposes of Board of Directors. In fact, I have been in the position to help choose members of a Board of Directors and one very integral part of the decision making is to choose someone who will bolster the public appearance of the company — in essence, a promoter. If this is in fact one purpose of Mitchell’s seat of the Board, then it just bolsters my argument.
As for your argument regarding the lack of Red Sox players Sosa and Maguire in ‘the list,’ it only supports the argument made by many that either you try to deliver as a complete a list as possible or you redact the names and not drag others through the mud. Red Sox players may not have made it into the list, but curiously a good amount of Yankee, oriole and Blue Jay players did. Last I looked, they all sit in the same division as the Red Sox.
It’s not enough to be impartial… the appearance of impartiality must also be there. It doesn’t matter if he’s Abe Lincoln… He should have recused himself.
gayle
Jon Heyman asked the question and then left the room before Mitchell answered. He didnt care what the answer was, he just wanted the question to be asked so Yankee fans couldnt claim bias. I heard Heyman make the outrageous claim on YES Network last night that McNamee had no reason to lie and Heyman’s reason why McNamee wouldnt lie, was because he was under threat of criminal penalty. If you ask me, being under threat of criminal penalty makes you an excellent candidate to lie especially when there is no way to prove otherwise. As you can see, Heyman clearly has his own agenda in this whole investigation.
People, and even Senator Mitchell, himself can downplay his role with the Red Sox. But you are not insignificant in the heirarchy of the team, when you are listed as “Director” right beneath Lucchino’s name on MLB’s official website.
Not saying that he did anything wrong, like totally ignore rumors of prominent Red Sox players being involved in steroids. But he did open the door to the accusations of conflict of interest.
Honestly folks shouldn’t be using the example of Mitchell’s sterling reputation as a public figure and former Senator as evidence of his impeachable fortitude and endless pursuit of fairness and truth…if anything it should serve as evidence to the contrary. Quick, how many crooked politicians can you name off the top of your head?
I don’t think Mitchell was ill-intentioned. I don’t think he was trying to serve as a shill for the Red Sox and I don’t think he was trying to stick it to the Yankees. If anything, the information was skewed because he only had two sources, their information was highly suspect and in many cases not corroborated, and they had the most access to players in the New York area. An ill-conceived investigation, but not an ill-intentioned one.
Although I don’t believe Mitchell had a “pro Red Sox” or “anti-Yankees” bias in his report, the mere fact of his position in the Red Sox organization raises the perception of conflict of interest and therefore casts doubt on his findings. The perception is impropriety is just as bad as impropriety itself. Why leave yourself so open to people scrutinizing and discrediting you? You mean Selig couldn’t have found someone else? Come on. How stupid do you have to be?
Can anyone definitively answer any of the following three questions?
1) When the Mitchell committee invited players to appear, were they permitted to bring their attorney with them?
2) Could the players’ have dispatched an attorney to appear on their behalf?
3) When Selig formed the committe did he offer the players’ union an opportunity to appoint one or more union representatives and/or union lawyers to question witnesses, to contest evidence, and/or to act on players’ behalf?
Anyone who read the report in its entirety know the answer to the following three questions?
1) When the Mitchell committee invited players to appear, were they permitted to bring their attorney with them?
2) Could the players’ have dispatched an attorney to appear on their behalf?
3) When Selig formed the committe did he offer the players’ union an opportunity to appoint one or more union representatives and/or union lawyers to question witnesses, to contest evidence, and/or to act on players’ behalf?
For the Yankee fans from Boston. What do the Boston papers say? Are they mum (lol) because they don’t want any arrows pointed their way? Are they gloating at the Yankee/Clemens involvement? Has anyone come out and said that Mitchell had no business heading this $60M lemon?
Kill,
The answers to your questions are: no, no, and no.
Mel,
Dan Shaunessey of the Boston Globe wrote a very balanced and fair column this morning.
One of the best columns written on this issue.
Ghost,
I agree, it does look bad and was stupid to put him in charge. However, everyone needs to chill with this conpsiracy against the yankees stuff. No one is out to get the Yanks off of the field.
Bostonian Brad writes that Mitchell “only agreed to chair the investigation because Bud Selig put enormous pressure on him.” This is laughable. How can Selig pressure Mitchell into doing an investigation? Is Selig also pressuring Mitchell into accepting the more than $20 million in fees that his firm is getting for their work? Given the obvious appearance of conflict (regardless of whether there is an actual conflict), Mitchell could have said that he was conflicted out of doing this investigation. In the alternative, he should have purposefully brought in representatives from other teams to consult, assist in the investigation and review his finding. He didn’t do that. He relied on his own firm and they made a ton of money. Merry Christmas DLA Piper!
That doesn’t make anything in the report inaccurate — but it does make you question whether the report is complete and whether it was appropriate to name all the names that he did. Given that he is not a prosecutor and has no power to subpoena or punish, he should have held himself to a higher standard of proof or provided the players mentioned the text of the sections about them in writing before publishing his tome. He didn’t do that. He told them to come in and he would surprise them in person with the evidence. When they all said no, he published anyway.
This investigation was inherently flawed and Mitchell made it worse.
It’s a little freaky right now. I woke up this morning, went on ESPN and all the other sites expecting so many new articles, retorts and chaos. Nothing! No player responses, no owners, no MLBPA, nothing!
It’s like the calm before the storm. You can feel it, you can see the dark clouds. This is gonna get ugly once all sides have prepared their official responses and offensives.
I like drama, but I’m not sure if I’m ready for this one. Where has my game gone?????
So, the criticism seems to reduce to a few points.
– More Yankees are named than Red Sox.
– Other players that “obviously” have used performance-enhancing drugs are not named.
– The appearance of a conflict of interest invalidates the report.
I think everyone should realize that this was never meant to be a complete investigation that would name every player who used. That is simply not possible given the environment. Are fewer Red Sox mentioned? Perhaps. Although Vaughn and Clemens (who might have used as early as 1996 with the Sox) are not insignificant. The point (in my opinion) was to publicly shame the players they had some amount of evidence against. They caught a random selection, and we should remember this and be less fans of our respected teams, and more of baseball.
As for the appearance of a conflict of interest. I think almost anyone involved in baseball might have suffered the same accusation as Mitchell. And, no, Steve, I would not be happy about George The Elder having any power beyond the Bronx. But, sometimes you need someone to serve, despite the inferences (without any grounding) about the investigation.
I do agree, however, that Mitchell should have resigned as a Red Sox director prior to the investigation. This would not stop the red-meat crowd, but it would have been appropriate.
“It’s like the calm before the storm”
It takes awhile to go thru 400 pages…but soon, soon
SJ44 and Kill — Giambi had his attorney (and his agent) with him when he spoke to Mitchell. Why do you think Mitchell would not have allowed players to appear with their attorneys? Also, Randy Velarde’s attorney made a statement for him and it appears in the report — so attorneys were permitted to make statements for their players.
Clearly, players were told not to cooperate — but they were also not provided with details of the allegations being made unless they showed up and talked to Mitchell.
Mitchell didn’t help himself by not removing himself from his board role with the Red Sox. There is no getting around that.
However, the imbalance of NY players on it is in relation to who talked. NY-based guys (McNamee and Radomski).
If guys from Boston, LA or Chicago talked, you would have a different combo of players.
Let’s be honest, Mitchell didn’t spare the Sox too much. He killed the GM of the World Champions when, despite asking about the steroid issues with two possible acquisitions (Gagne and Donnelly), he still went through with the deals.
Now, let’s put some perspective on this. A GM, knowing these guys were juicers, STILL acquired both players because winning took priority.
So, for all the Red Sox fans coming on here trying to stake high moral ground, step back a bit. Brian Sabean and Theo Espstein were the only GM’s named in the Report who KNOWINGLY had players on their team with steroid histories and didn’t do a thing about it.
Not exactly a glowing review for Theo by Mitchell.
Is it not a bit disingenuous for Phillips to be commenting/reporting on all this when he employed the guy who is being made into a dealer/superstar? I find that rather incredible.
Also I think if Selig had met with Fehr to create a joint investigation, it would have been more valuable and not subject to so much acrimony. I think it ridiculous that ol Bud thinks he can ride in on a white horse and rescue the damsel in distress. He should be working with the union and extended the offer that Mitchel work for both. Then there would be no secret agenda. Perhaps that is a bit Pollyanna but is what I think should have happened.
There is no conspiracy here — but it also undeniable that Selig set this up poorly and Mitchell just compounded the problem.
SJ44,
Thanks for the lead. Just read it and it was well written. Sounds like he sees it as a black eye for Boston and that he has genuine respect for Roger Clemens.
BTW, when do the “invites” for spring training come out? Thanks.
Damn SJ44
SJ44, I trust your authority but do you have citations in the report or sources I can quote for your answers.
I’m contemplating writing an Op-Ed or law review article about it, and I need to adduce citations.
Brad in Boston, the “some amount of evidence” is so shoddy in some cases as to border on ridiculous. Here’s what the report says about Brian Roberts:
“According to Bigbie, however, in 2004 Roberts admitted to him that he had injected himself once or twice with steroids in 2003.”
That’s it. “Some evidence”? That’s not some evidence. What that is is a joke, man. And how this guy’s reputation is completely tarnished.
Born in da Bronx,
We ALL wish that Phillips would recuse himself. lol.
Brad in Boston
I didnt say the appearance of impropriety invalidates the report. I said the appearance of impropriety called the report into question. And when it was no longer the appearance of impropriety but actual impropriety (namely attending Red Sox games and getting autographs from Red Sox players while the investigationw as ongoing) that invalidates the report. I have yet to see anyone who can answer the point about Mitchell attending Red Sox games. That would be like hiring someone to investigate a group of restaurants in for health violations and finding out that the investigator was given free meals at one particular restaurant and was chatting it up with the chefs and then being surprised when that restaurant is spared when the investigation concludes.
Brad in Boston, if you can answer that allegation that I will be impressed.
Al I agree with you that the report is incomplete my issue is the Yankee fans who are saying that the reason there are more Yankees than Red Sox on there has nothing to do with his place on the Board and more to do with the people that talked and were forced to talk mcNamee and Radomski
Do you have page cites, Chuck? Your observation doesn’t help my argument, but I can’t afford to get the facts wrong.
People are going nowhere trying to tag this “conflict of interest” thing on Mitchell. Baseball is an “incestual” entity, just like all corporations and sports are. You get promoted from within. When GMs and players retire, some become media analysts and analyze the brethren they were once a part of. (Philips, Salisbury, Harold Reynolds, etc etc). Everyone attached to the sport has a conflict of interest, because they are all trying to protect the entity that gives them a living.
The only way was for an outside entity to get involved, Congress. But when Congress got involved, people started complaining to leave baseball alone and go tend to the Iraq War.
So who does that leave? The fans. We’re the ones funding their lives. But yet we have conflict of interests too, to our favorite team and players.
In the end, all this doesn’t matter. Baseball is just game, and it always survives because it’s in our blood to love baseball and all the drama it comes with. And I still can’t wait to see where Santana ends up and ARod’s days in pinstripes and how the young pitchers do. Why? Because I have loved baseball ever since Don Mattingly in 1985 and that will never ever change!!!!!!!
Ghost –
I agree that Roberts was mistreated. However, he could have met with Mitchell to rebut the charges. And, yes, some of the evidence was weak, but there is no standard for evidence here, as in a court.
So, what would you do? No names? Report only positive drug test results? Do nothing?
Kill — with respect to Giambi, here is a quote from a NY Post article on July 14 of this year: “Major League Baseball announced the meeting took place, but did not elaborate on what occurred. Mitchell and members of his law firm, DLA Piper, conducted the interview with Giambi in New York. The Yankees designated hitter had agent Arn Tellem and attorney Brian O’Neill with him. Rob Manfred, executive vice president for labor relations in the commissioner’s office, and Michael Weiner, the players’ union general counsel, also were there.”
Velarde — see page 137 of the report (page 185 of the PDF) — “Major League Baseball announced the meeting took place, but did not elaborate on what occurred. Mitchell and members of his law firm, DLA Piper, conducted the interview with Giambi in New York. The Yankees designated hitter had agent Arn Tellem and attorney Brian O’Neill with him. Rob Manfred, executive vice president for labor relations in the commissioner’s office, and Michael Weiner, the players’ union general counsel, also were there.”
Brad,
You wrote:
“I think everyone should realize that this was never meant to be a complete investigation that would name every player who used. That is simply not possible given the environment. Are fewer Red Sox mentioned? Perhaps. Although Vaughn and Clemens (who might have used as early as 1996 with the Sox) are not insignificant. The point (in my opinion) was to publicly shame the players they had some amount of evidence against. They caught a random selection, and we should remember this and be less fans of our respected teams, and more of baseball.”
If that is indeed the point, then the report is an absolute travesty (period). There are some fine names in that report that will now have black clouds hanging over their heads for the rest of their lives ibecause either the investigators were too lazy, incompotent, or conflicted to pursue a complete and thorough investigation og MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL as a whole. Also, because only two sources were used who just happened to be based in NYC, whole teams are now unfairly thrown into a state of disgrace. If the investigators had exposed drug use across the country, then the weight of the findings would have been shared by all, rather than just the few.
It is obvious to me that the report should have either been thorough and complete…or all names should have been redacted. As it is, this is a disgrace.
Lets say roberts did meet with Mitchell. He would have been confronted saying that this player told us that he gave you steroids. Roberts would have reposonded no that never happened. Somy question is what would Mitchell have done include or not include him in the report?Would he have said we were told by player A that he have him the steroids but that Roberts denied it, or just left Roberts off the list. Based on the threshold used throughout the report this is the problem with this whole report.
WELL, OF ALL THE DRAMATIC —- THESE TEARS ARE FOR ALL THE RUDENESS!!!! I AM AT NASA BEING SHRUNK AS WE SPEAK OF ALL THE DRAMATIC!!!! KOBY IS WAITING FOR ME IN RAWJAH’S BATHROOM!!! I WILL SAVE MY FRIEND!!!! YOU ARE ALL SO RUDE!!! THESE TEARS ARE FOR MY, OH MY, OF ALL THE DRAMATIC!!! HOW CAN I JUMP??? I CAN’T JUMP!! I’M NOT OLD, I’M ONLY 62, OF ALL THE DRAMATIC!!!! MY RIDE IS HERE tOODLES - RAWJAHLUVAH420
I don’t know Brad, I guess I wouldn’t have published names. It just seems kind of senseless to me. I get all that about trying to publicly shame people who are dopers, but if you’re gonna go down that road I think you should be sure that you’ve got the facts to back up the b.s. Just doesn’t seem so in this case. Just seems the report was trying to reel a few big fish in so MLB can say that it was “doing something” and spending its millions for a purpose.
Kill — BIG OOPS on Velarde quote — pasted the same thing twice — here is the Velarde quote from page 137 of the report: “Randy Velarde admitted to us, through his lawyer, that he had used performance enhancing substances he obtained from Greg Anderson. According to his lawyer, if interviewed, Velarde would have told us he received the “cream” and the “clear” from Anderson in a transaction that occurred in a parking lot during spring training in 2003. Velarde was playing for the Oakland Athletics at the time, was near the end of his career and was attempting to play for another year to support his family.
Steve –
OK, reasonable question. We all can acknowledge the following about Mitchell.
1. He is from Maine… ex-Senator … etc
2. He is a Director of the Red Sox
3. He likes baseball and the Red Sox
OK, so, even if he resigned (which he should have) would attending or not attending a Red Sox game change any of this? In other words, which choice does he make:
– Not attend, but implicitly encourage the idea that working for the Red Sox will influence his investigation; or,
– Attend, because it will not affect his investigation one way or another.
I think Mitchell choose the later.
SJ44,
I read the Shaughnessy column earlier expecting him to trash Clemens because I had heard he was in the tank for Sox management. I was surprised at the even handed approach. I agree, it is a must read.
Thanks Chuck. Giambi was compelled to testify however. I wonder if the Mitchell Commission extended the right to appear with an attorney all the other players.
It doesn’t appear they invited Velarde’s attorney to appear before them. Rather, the report seems to quote correspondence from Velarde’s attorney.
Ghost, Steve, etc Thanks, I have caused enough trouble here today, so back to work. See everyone on opening day.
Brad,
Actually, I don’t think Mitchell needed to resign from the BoSox. What he needed to do was to form a committee including other insiders from other clubs that could consult with him, assist with the investigation and contribute to or comment on the report. He could have divided up the investigation and allowed others to pursue other angles and then he could have brought it all together for the report. By not doing any of this, he left himself open to criticism.
C
Born in da Bronx I pointed that out as well. Phillips is talking about this, meanwhile he employed the drug dealer while he was gm. It happened under his watch. So he is just as guilty as those he is pointing his finger at.
Kill–
Please ssee below this is contained in the appendices of the report. it is from the letter that Mitchell sent to all players asking for their coperation. They absolutely were allowed to bring legal representation
You or your representative may reach me at 212-XXX-XXXX or Charlie Scheeler of my staff (XXX-XXX-XXXX or [email address]) and we will arrange a meeting at a time and place convenient for you. Of course, if you choose to so volunteer, you will have the right to bring representatives to the meeting, including your personal counsel and/or a representative of the Major League Baseball Players Association. Under the Basic Agreement, the Players Association also has the right to receive prior notice of any interview that we conduct with a major league player.
Kill,
I agree that there is nothing conclusive here — but it still means that any player could have offered to meet with Mitchell with his attorney present — I don’t see any evidence that any player did this and had his offer denied. Or a player could have submitted a statement through his attorney as Velarde did — I don’t think it means anything to have an attorney appear for you in person. (Of course, other attorneys may have submitted less helpful statements for their clients that were not included in the report — Velarde’s attorney basically admits Randy’s use.)
Let me suggest this angle: Mitchell failed by not allowing the players to respond to the allegations prior to publishing the report. Indeed, he offered each one an opportunity to appear, but he did not tell them what he had on them. Each section of his report ends with: “In order to provide XXXXXXX with information about these allegations and to give him an opportunity to respond, I asked him to meet with me; he declined.”
Once Mitchell understood that the players would maintain a united front and not appear — and knowing that the report was not a legal document and would stand on its own — Mitchell should have provided each player named in the report a copy of the section relating to his activities and provide each of them a final opportunity to talk with him or submit written comments on the allegations. That could have gotten messy but it would have been the fair thing to do.
Hi Jennifer,
I have never been much of a Phillips fan but watching him pontificate about the drugs in the clubhouse while it was his clubhouse that is the heart of the matter. How come no one says a word about this. First think I would want to know his who Radomski worked for and why he was allowed to pander to the team. And what about MLB security, they had no clue?
Kill Schill: See Mitchell report appendices, pages B-7 to B 10.
Will asked: “with mitchells position with the redsox, shouldn’t that have made it easier for him to talk to clubbies/staff with the redsox?”
I agree. In fact, do we know if Mitchell made any attempt to interview trainers and clubbies from every MLB team? If he was sincere in his investigation, that’s what he should do. We all know that players move around a lot, over time, common practices could spread across teams. So when Mitchell learned that some players alledgedly approached one trainer and one clubhouse attendant about buying/injecting PED’s, the logical thing to do would be to look into all trainers and clubbies. I know that sounds like a lot of work, but heck, the guy’s got $20/60million and almost 2 years in his disposal.
They got the goods on mets and yankees because they had Radomski and McNamee in a noose already. With Roger and Andy it is just hearsay. But fols have suspected Roger for years. And you know what? Jeter’s big round head looks like a ‘roid melon to me. He just wasn’t so dumb as to go through mcNamee. Now that’ll really get folks pissed, suggesting Saint Derek.
This isn’t everyone who used. Bobby Valentine told a friend of mine (more hearsay) Baerga stopped juicing, that’s why his numbers fell off a cliff after Cleveland.
The whole sport buried its head about this for years. It doesn’t taint the yankees championships to me. Great teams. Great players.
When will we hear from a member of the Yankees - Torre, Steinbrenner, Cashman - concerning what they knew about the clubhouse in those days - who was in charge?
Psst! Annie! I heard that Torre is no longer a “member of the Yankees.” Cashman and Steinbrenner (not sure which one you are talking about, there are several) were not in the clubhouse and MacNamee was only with the Yankees for a year or two…
And hughman: It is not hearsay when someone (MacNamee) says that he saw something or did something first hand (like injecting Clemens or supplying Pettitte). It is only hearsay if MacNamee says what someone else told him. Of course, this doesn’t mean that MacNamee is telling the truth either…
Where was Joe Torre when you had a system where clubbies had such power? Didn’t anyone learn anything from the Pittsburgh cocaine trials 25 years ago? Bud Selog should resign (seppuku is not necessary) to show he shares part of the blame. What crooked Democratic politician..a murdering Ted Kennedy, a perjuring serial sexual assaulter Bill Clinton, a fixing parking tickets for his boyrfriend Barney Frank, a slander convict Al Sharpton, has George Mitchell ever used his “impeccable reputation” and called for their resignation? Brokered peace in Northern Ireland? Sounds like a job for Monty Hall (actually the recent Irish economic boom has a lot more to do with that(. When do people start asking why NFL players are so big and fast?
I think this whole mitchel report is the baseball equivalent to the mccarthy hearings. Alot of good people are being “convicted” in the court of public opinion with very bad and weak evidence. Evidence that is so weak any judge in the country would be forced to throw it out of court. I really think by naming names MLB has done more damage then good with regards to the players union and this era of “friendship or mutual understanding” between the two is over.
Who are cheating on their wives? I am just curious as I used to be.
Mitchell Report: The Quicker Picker-Upper, now available in two-ply.