Today in The Journal News
-
- December
- 14
Here are a few of the stories that will be in The Journal News today:
Alex Rodriguez was not pleased with the work of Scott Boras. But he’s for 275 million reasons to be happy now.
Columnist Rick Carpiniello was unimpressed by the report.
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on Friday, December 14th, 2007 at 3:19 am by Peter Abraham.
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Alex should have fired that blood sucker.
Man the more you look at this report, the more you realize what an utter hit job it was.
Surprisingly, some Boston news outlets actually mentioned the conspicuous lack of mention of any current Red Sox players in the report.
No matter how “honorable” Mitchell may have been in his past endeavors, he soiled himself with his involvement in this report.
As a Director of the Boston Red Sox, he has a clear and obvious conflict of interest. There is no question that a judge in a similar position would be forced to recuse himself, and that a potential juror in this situation would be dismissed for cause.
Yet Mitchell, with all his experience as a US attorney, US senator, and peace negotiator set himself up as prosecutor, judge, and jury. Disgusting. He should have known better, and it is virtually impossible to believe that this was not deliberate.
Even if his report was truly done in the most honest and upright fashion, it is rendered useless by the obvious conflict of interest of its creator.
Gammons is a punk.
Ken Rosenthal summed it up pretty nicely on foxsports.com. He was thoroughly pissed at the report. lol. Rosenthal is cool.
I don’t put too much stock in the report. I don’t like the sources. I’m quite sure Mitchell could’ve come up with something better than two people facing jail time. Why not look into every team’s conditioning coach or something along those lines?
I must say that the specifics of Clemens involvement is pretty telling. LOL, he took it in the arse. I guess he was plenty pissed at the time he threw that piece of the bat towards Piazza. That moment is still priceless in my mind.
Also, there was no active policy before 2003. The healing powers of HGH is probably still active in the sport. Anyway, I like to say ‘’good luck’’ to Selig and the union in 2011.
Report was a waste of MLB’s 40 Million. Poor timing.
Anabolic steroid use, while dangerous to the human body, is one thing, but HGH, not detectable and not proven dangerous is another.
Feel sorry for Andy Pettitte, who “apparently” thought HGH would accelerate his return to the Yankees for an elbow injury to help his team out, and to justify his contract.
Also, since HGH wasn’t banned till later, Mitchell shouldn’t have named Pettite and others if, by these two drug dealers testimonies, these athletes were using HGH to recuperate from injuries, that had them on the DL, trying to get back to their teams to justify their paychecks. Where was his “evidence” that Pettitte was trying to cheat?
The report was doomed from the start. It was limited by a number of factors that prevented it from ever doing what it set out to do. Forget for a minute Mitchell’s Sox connection and the needless barroom argument vulnerability it gave the report. Mitchell is no hack. He is a former Federal Judge, US Attorney and private counsel and thus has done and seen investigations too numerous to count. The man had to know he would be hamstrung trying to investigate steroids use in baseball without subpoena power, without the ability to compel testimony or grant immunity and without the ability to share info with the BALCO or Albany DA investigations. Moreover, his invitation letter to the players was obscenely naive. Did he really think they would come forward and put themselves between the devil and the deep blue sea – talk to Mitchell and possibly admit to federal crimes without a grant of immunity first?
So, why did Mitchell agree to do the “investigation?” A man with his great experience as a lawyer and judge had to know the severe handicaps on this effort and the extreme improbability of uncovering the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth before he pushed off from shore.
In the end this looks like a report that was backed into. Mitchell gave us meatloaf instead of a steak because he needed to mix in some filler to stretch his meager factual resources. It has the look of the worst kind of legal effort, driven by a contrived image of the end product instead of an all out professional effort to let a full accounting of the facts give the report a natural and honest feel.
My guess is that Mitchell had the end game, the recommendations, figured out very early on even before the first witness was interviewed. He also had an outline of the report to fill in as he progressed, but he was stonewalled and frustrated at every turn, as he must have known he would likely be from the outset. But an outline of a report with painfully obvious recommendations was worth $20 mil and would not have added anything to what wa already written and spoken on the subject.
So, Mitchell went to Plan B, resorting to his experience in Ireland. As a peacemaker, he blamed both sides, he praised both sides, but he gave them a way out. If each gave in a little on important issues, the whole thing would be over and everyone’s lives would get better. Here he blamed the game, the owners and the Commissioner for various misdeeds ranging from willful blindness to sloth. He blamed the players for cheating and being drug abusers. He then said don’t punish anyone and let’s move on for the sake of the game.
In the end, by trying to do too much with too little, Mitchel accomplished nothing good. If anything, it looks now like he made a bad situation worse.
The report is too damning to the New York Yankees, too damning. I can already see myself having to defend our championships won in the 90s because of this damn thing.
Murphydog:
I especially agree with the second to last paragraph of your post.
I don’t however, think he has made a bad situation worse in regard to the steroid issue.
Things might become worse, if this issue leads to epic battles between the union and ownership.
Gave myself a homework assignment last night. I sat down and read the entire report.
Man, I am glad I am out of school! lol I forgot how much of a pain in the @## homework can be.
As far as folks complaining about the lack of other teams players, too NY-centric, etc, there is a good reason for that.
The only two guys who talked (McNamee and Radomski) were NY-based. That’s why its so NY-centric. One reason why Mitchell should have thought a little more before putting the names in the report.
If they could have gotten someone from LA, Chicago, Boston, etc, to talk, the Report would have been more central to those teams.
If anybody thinks steroids is just a NY problem, then you are moron. Plain and simple.
For the guys who were dumb enough (like Kevin Brown) to pay for their stuff by check, with the exact amount of the drug costs matching the check, you deserve to be in the report for being an idiot.
For the guys who have NO EVIDENCE they did anything, except have their name discussed as a user, like what happened to Brian Roberts, its shocking a man with such regard for the law and reputation like George Mitchell would do that to somebody. No excuse for him to do something like that.
In the coming days, as more folks get a chance to read the document, I expect that kind of criticism to increase.
Now to Roger and Andy. My read on it. This report had nothing without McNamee. Moreso than Radomski because as much as Radomski gave them (which is a lot), the report needed “sizzle” or it wasn’t going to get anywhere. They also needed another corraborating witness. Even a shaky one like McNamee and he is VERY shaky. His testimony, and contentions, would never hold up under cross-examination, IMO.
McNamee is facing a prison term and he gets strongarmed by Jeff Novisky (the IRS Agent in the case) to give up Clemens and Pettitte. That gives the report the “sizzle” needed.
The evidence McNamee had/has on Clemens in much more specific (in some areas) than he had/has on Pettitte. Its almost (at least to me) as if he added Andy as an afterthought and had to come up with something to make it look like it could have happened.
There is NO EVIDENCE Andy Pettitte bought or used steroids at any time. When you hear these clowns at ESPN say there is, call them and tell them to read the #@#$-ing report.
The ONLY “evidence” McNamee has of Pettitte using PED is “2 to 4” HGH injections to help him heal from an elbow injury in 2002. In other words, he was using HGH to rehab an injury. Not for performance enhancing purposes.
Nothing about ANY PED use by Pettitte from 2002 to today. In fact, aside from the alleged HGH injections to heal his elbow, there isn’t any paper trail or evidence Pettitte purchased or used PED’s.
Even the story McNamee gives about injecting Pettitte is shaky. Doesn’t remember how many times he injected him. Funny but, if I only had two clients (which, at that point in his career, is all he had among professional athletes) I’d sure as hell remember how many times I injected one of them. He had no problem with his memory when it came to the number of times he injected Clemens. For Pettitte? Memory loss. VERY, VERY shaky to me.
It seems to me Andy Pettitte got swept into this thing for being close to Clemens and training with the same guy who the Feds were putting heat on to talk. Just a rotten set of circumstances.
My overall view of the report? A hatchet job on the players, no mention of owner or Commissioner culpability in this entire episode and as incomplete a body of work (for the length of the Report) as one will see.
But, it accomplished its goal. It slimed the players, made Selig look like a champion, and gives Congress something else to yell about on Tuesday.
A giant waste of time.
thanks for your work SJ44-
Pettitte is a pretty sensitive guy, IMHO. I’m going to wait a bit to see what officially transpires, but if what you say is true I am going to send him some kind of support message. I’m sure he has some kind of deer in the headlights thing going on now.
This report amounts to the same thing as Karl Rove overseeing a “Scooter” Libby investigation. A clear cut conflict of interest.
As the dust begins to settle with the entire farse, the rest of the country will see the horrific decision to appoint someone with ties to the game and as a former Senator from Maine, Mitchell should hang his head in shame for accepting the role as lead investigator knowing full well that he fooled nobody.
There’s about as much substance (nopun intended) and validity to this report as there is to The`Warren Report. The fact that they were headed by former federal judges means nothing.
Warren trashed his legacy with a BS report, and Gerald Ford and Arlin Spector did also, by attaching their names to a whitwash. Mitchell just did the same thing. Look at the interwoven web of the principles with the most to gain. The Red sox hire Mitchell as a board member. Whether they had advanced warning that this report was going to be launched with Mitchell in charge, who knows. One thing it did do was give the Red Sox a chance to gain sympathy and free publicity for being so clean.
about the Red Sox ownership..former used car salesman Bud Selig hand picks his old friends to buy the Sox for $100 million less than the high bidder, by letting it be know that he wouldn’t approve the sale. The affair involving Henry, Loria,Selig stinks from the beginning. At one time, Henry had ownership of both the Marlins and Red Sox until a deal could be made with Loria to swap francises of the Expos and Marlins. Then,baseball becomes the only professional sport to buy it’s own team, successfully stripping it of any money while selling off it’s best players.
Selig wants to get rid of the steroid stain because it’s become an embarrassment to his administration now that he can’t milk anymore money fromit. He brings in a friend to run the operation to clean it up. actually,he brings in the friend’s company and writes Mitchell a blank check.
Mitchell isn’t worried about inproprieties…he has the Irish Truce to prove it. Not one Red sox player on the report was a user during the time with the team, although plenty of speculation about several still on the team. Instead, he names minor players long since gone and fringe players, or those that played with the Sox either before or after the players involvement. Out of at least 225-250 players since 1996 that have played on the Sox, that’s the best he can do? BS. Selig also gets a cut in this deal, to. It hurts the Yankee image, which could cut into profits. He knows that welfare money coming from the Yankees is about to dry up with the new Stadium and close to 100 million coming off of the books by next year.
as always, well said SJ44.
The Mitchell Report will not overshadow the still alive Santana deal.
A week from now or less, the joke of a report will get little mention.
Excellent takes by both SJ44 and Green Beret 7. In summary, the Yankees can hold their heads high knowing that the organization conducts business over and above board. Not the case with the wannabes 200 miles north. Conflict of interest is just the latest in attempts to get recognition.
Tommy:
Here’s why I thought Mitchell has made it worse. Based on a lot of experience, the rule in this kind of a case is that if you have a headshot, take it, but you’ll only get one so don’t miss. If you miss, they are coming after you with everything they have. IMO Mitchell fired and missed.
If the proof had been overwhelming, the Union would have had to just take it with only perfunctory grumblings. But to use such vulnerable evidence, witnesses turning against otherwise legit folks (the named players with one or two exceptions I believe have no criminal records) to save their own necks, Mitchell made a grave tactical error. Mitchell was not in a courtroom setting where the use of informants, while still bloody, is at least governed by some rules. He faces a much higher burden of proof in the court of public opinion. Absent better evidence, he should have skipped naming names. Doing what he did basically begged the Union to mount a fierce response. They will dig up every piece of dirt there is on the “informers” and drag their lives through the mud.
But that is just the tip of the iceberg. In one scenario I have been mulling over, the players won’t have to sue anybody. My guess is that Fehr and Orza have been working overtime to investigate filing an Unfair Labor Practice against Management based on the report and have been weighing their ability to respond as a Union instead of making the players go to court as individuals.
Look also for the Union to dig in their heels on any talk involving Mitchell’s recommendation of a Baseball Dept of Investigations. Moreover, I can all but guarantee a strike next time out when the Union demands ground rules for doing any future Mitchell type investigations and the Commissioner’s Office balks at limiting his power to take action to protect “The Integrity of the Game.”
Not that I needed additional evidence to show what a goof Jose Canseco is but one of my favorite things from yesterday was Canseco on Larry King last night who was on the same segment as Bob Dupay (he must have been thrilled about that pairing).
Canseco starts by saying that as much as he thinks the report was a good thing he was suprised that some things were left out and more important he had been told that in the report it says that he gave Clemens steroids and that is blatantly flase that he never gave him steroids. Dupay answers a question about the report and says that he believes Canseco is incorrect that it doesnt say that about Canseco.
Canseco responds that once again MLB is sayin the he is a liar, that everything in his book has been proven to be true yes they continue to go after him and his reputation. Meaning he is giving he usual it is all about me,I am the one who really broke this etc etc
Well wasnt Canseco suprised when not a minute later Larry puts George Mitchel on the air via phone who called into say that Jose was 100 oer cent wrong that the report does not say that he gave C lemens steroids but that they had discussed it. GOTCHA
Jose trhen of course has to apologize and say that he had not read the report but that it was what he had been told. Backtracking as quickly as possible.
How ironic that some clown who hasn’t read a book since high school would decide to write two of them.
Mitchell’s only contribution was as a Boston pinata ….
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_J._Mitchell
You gotta understand something about Canseco. Above all else, he is a rat. Correction, he is a broke rat.
He has already #@##$#-ed away what little money he made from his first book.
He is “credited” by some members of the media as blowing the roof off this steroid stuff. However, that’s not accurate.
The BALCO Case is what opened up this stuff, not Jose Canseco.
Canseco has been shopping another book for almost two years. The publisher is hesitant to go to print with it because the “evidence” Jose has on some of the names in the book (one of whom is Arod) is beyond shaky. Its non-existent.
The lawyers of the publishing house won’t allow it to be published unless Jose comes up with more evidence. That’s why he is ticked off the Report doesn’t include Arod. It hurts his ability to get his book published.
Jose has been after Arod for years because Arod won’t financially support some of Jose’s grand schemes. He has nothing on Arod. If he did, it would be public right now because he has been crying about it for years.
This guy is no hero. He is only a hero to members of the media (particularly in the talk show genre) who need a guest.
In that regard, Jose is always available and loves the PR he recieves as the self-proclaimed “Godfather of Steroids”.
Arod will be on 60- minutes this Sunday FYI. Here is a snippet of his reponse about the Mitchell reprt. Thi interview was obviously done yesterday. Im sure the union loves the fact that he gave this interview yesterday, if this is all of what he said nabout it I am sure the Yankees are finw with it. Interesting to see if he throws Boras under the bus again like the conference call.
Question from COuric:
“So many huge players have been named in this investigation and MVPs, Cy Young award winners, hall of famers, what’s your reaction to this investigation?” Couric asks.
Answer:
“Well, Katie you’re putting me in a tough spot. I mean these are guys that I play with, they’re my teammates, friends, people that I respect, people that I play with every day. If anything comes of this, [I] would be extremely disappointed . I mean it would be a huge black eye on the game of baseball,” Rodriguez says. “A lot of fans, they just want to know a lot. They want to know the truth and I think in this George Mitchell investigation . . . Maybe they will get what they want.”
The Yanks have signed Akinori Otsuka. Just kiddin’.
SJ44—
I am in the midst of reading the report myself. Kudos to you for being able to do it in one sitting!
I absolutely agree with your take on the the inclusion of Clemens and Pettitte being necessary to, basically, take the “ho-hum” out of the report. Without McNamee and Radomski, there is no meat, whether it’s meatloaf or steak, at all. I think it behooved Mitchell to try to find a few more Radomskis, but I think once he got the “names” he needed, he didn’t bother.
I think the names were added to the report to justify the cost, because without the names, it is clearly a recommendation of what should be improved in the drug testing. While people say that the Commissioner’s office (in the past) had blame cast upon them for overlooking the drug problem, a mitigating circumstance is also cited explaining why they chose to overlook (i.e., the economic condition of baseball was more pressing at the time). At each turn, it seems the MLBPA is cast as the evil villain (perhaps rightly, perhaps not).
In my opinion, if the evidence is incomplete and non-conclusive, or if the activities of a player were not banned at the time they were performed, then that player’s name has no business being in the report. And if he couldn’t be more comprehensive in finding the “dirty” players, then he shouldn’t have implicated any particular players. I am not naive, however; I do understand that on some level, without names, it would be difficult to justify the report.
Unfortunately, the result that Mitchell wants to come out of this report, namely, making the drug testing more stringent, is not going to be the focus. The mere inclusion of the names pretty much ensures that that’s where any energy is going to be spent in the foreseeable future – by fans, media and the MLBPA. And Selig’s stance that he may dele out punishment in spite of Mitchell’s urging not to do so in an effort to truly move on (and also because he knows the evidence against some players, perhaps most, is troublesome), is guaranteed to make this a real circus.
Mitchell is a big time partisan. Anyone who has followed national politics from the time he was Senate Majority leader should know that.
Underneath the supposed “grand old man” exterior is an old time New England politician.
To tell me that Pedro Martinez didn’t use HGH when Pettitte did? Come on. To put Clemens in the report based on heresay evidence—give me a break. Brian Roberts?
Here’s who looks bad:
(1) Mitchell. Obvious bias. Could be sued by the union for libel—just watch.
(2) Selig. The players union and the owners who dislike Bud (and there are many) will talk this one over. The owners have to decide whether to toss Bud out over this one, while thinking about their record revenue. An interesting decision.
(3) Media. The backlash has already begun. People know this is a witch hunt, and the whole steroid issue is overblown. Give this a few more days—people in general get more pissed over false accusations than HGH for rehab.
(4) Red Sox. By having players who were with them, but supposedly only used steroids when they were not with the team, in a report by a Red Sox director, looks very fishy. They are on their way to becoming America’s most hated team.
Did anyone find it inexcuseable that Bud Selig, who was the person who order the whole investigation, had an advanced copy up to 3 business days in advance and ADMITTED he didn’t read the whole report, and that he was briefed regarding the certain aspects of the report he didnt take the time to read himself.
fans across the country downloaded and read the entire 400 page report in a couple hours, and he couldnt find the time to read maybe the most important report in the sport’s history, which took over 20 months and cost miliions upon millions of dollars to produce, and he couldnt find time in his schedule to read the whole thing to answer some questions?
if Selig doesnt take it seriously, why should any of we?
The Powerline blog is notable in that it is operated by some lawyer types who are prone to investigate the facts much like they would do if their clients were on trial.
Their most notable accomplishment was the exposure of Dan Blather when he tried to foster some forged papers on us.
If you go to the Powerline blog:
http://powerlineblog.com/
work you way down to the December 13 section and read the “Say it ain’t so Roger” paragraphs you will be amazed.
Do ya’ll think the Commish and MLBPA will resolve their differences in time for the next CBA? Or will there be a strike in 2011 or 2012?
Nobody pays attention to Jose Canseco anymore. He commands as much respect as Juice Simpson does.
Pittsburgh fan—
Firstly as has been stated before Mitchell cannot be sued, Well he can but MLB has indemnified him from having to fork up anything. If he gets sued as loses MLB will be the one having to fork over any penalities. One of the things I understand why it had to be done from Mitchell’s perspective but not sure i it actually happens owners will be happy to hear about.
Just because there are no current Red Sox in there doesnt make this report biased in my opinion. It really has nothing to do with the fact that he is a Director on the Board of the Red Sox. He just didnt have enough proof based on whatever threshold he used (which is non consitent at best).
We as Yankees fans really need to get off this excuse it makes us look petty. If Kirk Rodamski had been a Red Sox clubbie you can bet your bottom dollar that there would have been Sox on there.
donald fehr ASKED for and was denied the report before coming out, i think they put the players union in a corner. A corner that if they come out fighting makes them look bad. Its a sad day for the players union. I honestly feel bad for them
Thanx for the link, On D Ball.
and i say that because its hard for me to feel bad for millionaires.
I haven’t had a chance to read any articles this morning, but from what I’ve already heard on the radio and tv everyone is buying into this hook line and sinker.
Why isn’t anyone but Pete questioning the fact that there were only two informents (sp)?!! And both were or are facing jail time and spilled the beans to save their own butts? How can we slander all these people based on their word?
I hope players start to sue! I read in this blog that Brian Roberts has no evidence against him other than someone saying they knew he took roids, real hard evidence there sentator Mitchell.
Incidentally, the main stream press has spun it so that George Mitchell above reproach where the record would indicate otherwise.
If you ask some George Bush Sr. and some of the Republican Senators when he was majority leader, you will get a far different answer.
They remember George Mitchell as the lying SOB who agreed to bring to the Senate floor a vote on lowering the Capital Gains tax, which at the time was excessive, in exchange for their support on some other measure.
The Republicans delivered as promised but the lying SOB Mitchell never did.
Of course, I don’t have to convince you that he is a rat fink, you just have to read the report.
I don’t feel bad for the Players’ Union. It is one of the strongest unions in the country. I do feel bad for individual players, however. I will go on record, and be criticized for it, I’m sure, as being not very pro-union. It was stunning for me to read in the report two things specifically regarding the way the union represents the players. It is stated in the report that over 70% of players were in favor of better drug testing. The union opposed it. The second thing that was in the report that I found interesting, to say the least, and maybe it’d been reported before, but I didn’t remember it, was that when baseball wanted to institute manadatory random testing, the provision was that an anonymous and non-consequence-bearing testing would be done and if 5% or more of the tests were positive, mandatory testing would be instituted. The report states that some “clean” players who wanted the testing decided to decline to be tested because they knew that if they declined it would be counted as testing positive – they wanted to make sure those numbers reach the 5%.
I have always questioned the union’s stance on the steroids issue; it always seemed to me the union was not concerned with the players as human beings, but with the state and strength of the bargaining power of the union itself.
Which is why I am not a big fan of unions—they take on a life of their own that many times has little to do with the individuals they purport represent.
For so many years, the City of Boston, the state of Mass., and it’s baseball team were the laughingstock of the U.S. and now finally after reaching some accomplishment in very recent years, they turn around and without knowing how to handle success, make absolute fools of themselves at every turn. Will they ever learn ? They’re on a path of being severely disliked and enjoy doing so. They’ll never realize that success with class draws envy.
BAM! BAM! Emeril Lagasse is the best, lol.
doreen, i see your point. I feel bad because of several factors. A) Bud Selig was given the report before hand B) Fehr asked for a copy and was denied a copy. Most of the players mentioned, regardless of what the evidence is, have been labeled cheaters from now on out. Management and Ownership is not mentioned in this report. The union was nancy kerrigan and the report was tonya harding
Fellow Yankees fans, you guys have no idea how upset it makes me to see the Redsox have a perfect world and us struggling. On the brighter note, we can only go upward from this point on…I’m confident that we will win the next 2 out of 3 world series to compensate.
This report makes you wonder about Mitchell’s whole career. If this is the type of work he does then what does that say about his true role in the Ireland peace or anything else.
I certainly wouldn’t ever wanting him to defend me in a court case if this is what he believes passes the smell test. I didn’t care one way or another in the past about this politician, but now I have no regard for him or what he has done. The Union will have to rip apart this joke of a report, Clemens will sue as should Pettitte and any other player who feels so inclined. Once this turd muffin Mitchell loses one of the many cases brought against him it will be the end for him and HIS reputation will be exposed for being overhyped.
I have no respect for him. None. Naming the people when knowing they have a tough time being able to clear their names smacks of a supreme arrogance, that he is supposed to have credentials as an attorney just goes to show that there is a derth of integrity and a disconnect that these Senators (former and current) have with justice.
I wouldn’t trust Mitchell to be a dog catcher.
How are the Red Sox in a “perfect world”? Their GM does not look good in the report.
He is found to be asking about the background (from a PED standpoint) of Gagne, told its “an issue”, and still does the deal for him.
If that was Brian Cashman, folks would be KILLING him today.
That passage in the report does not make Theo look good at all. It just shows the culture in the game (winning, no matter what) is not limited to the players.
migames:
I’m not sure it makes the Union look bad to complain about players being smeared by a dubious investigation. That’s everyone’s worst nightmare. The Union was denied access to the Mitchell report for their input or balancing or corrections. While not required under any ground rules between MLB and MLBPA, on its face denying access doesn’t sound like good faith or fair play. But it’s the absence of any agreed upon ground rules that gives the Union their best shot at a fundamental fairness argument.
The players were accused of improprieties and even crimes – - and thus subject to penalties by management – - based on shaky evidence without settled and reasonable procedural safeguards, or at least without safeguards approved by labor. This is different from the Pete Rose investigation because that was about one person and this report accuses the whole sport in a scattergun way based on dubious evidence.
I think this case presents a fertile opportunity for the Union to challenge the scope and outer limits of the Commissioner’s power to protect the integrity of the game. It cannot be that “anything goes.”
Here is my statement
if someone can file 9 pages of exampkes about you.. IM PRETTY SURE YOUR GUILTY!
unlike Brian Roberts, who truly was thrown under the bus.
clemens is a complete and utter joke..
SJ:
Thanks for correcting the perception of a perfect Boston operation. If anything this report is a challenge to investigative reporters to dig into the Red Sox. Look out Theo, here they come.
Now, for some other “news,” here’s a nice little tidbit buried in the Minneapolis Star Tribune: http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/12493231.html
It states that Johan Santana’s agent spoke to the Red Sox and the Yankees saying that his price tag will be $20 million/year for 7 years. Though I think this is the number that’s been thrown about, I’m not sure that I’ve seen anyone report “definitively” on this. (I didn’t know that agents were allowed to speak with teams other than the contracted organization without explicit consent from the GM?)
and now comes the trolls. geesh, i cant deal with these childish comments.
murphydog—
Did the Union recommend that players not cooperate in the investigation because there were no agreed upon groundrules?
Don’t get caught up in the amount of pages on someone. Its coming from a single witness.
If you put one witness in a room, and interrogate him for 10 hours, you will come up with multiple pages of material.
It does not mean that person is guilty of anything. It just means that an allegation is out there and its up to the player to disprove it.
In other news, my fam and I will be living in Idaho in ‘08. It should be better than Turkey.
SJ44
yeah, i understand what your saying..
but if someone can bring up enough things to cover 9 pages..
its pretty obvious that something did take place.
we are not talking about a page or two.. its 9 pages..
its clemens.. look at the guy.. he a big strong dude at 45
migames –
I think once the clock goes past 9 a.m., you can pretty much bet the trolls will be in full force. It was extremely upsetting to come to this blog yesterday to check in on the Yankee fan “vibe” and have to scroll through (trying not to read) so many ridiculous and childish posts by Red Sox trolls.
As much as it upsets me that there are no current Red Sox names, it upsets me even more than nobody seems to be seriously writing or talking about the conflict of interest with Mitchell and the Sox.
What a joke.
SJ44
How are the sox in a perfect world? They are the team of the decade o far, what we were last decade. At only 24 and knowing all the history I know about us, I’m as big of a Yankees fan you’ll find, the tattoo of my team on my arm means that I’ll still love them as much if we have another decade like the 80’s but I’m a realist so again the Redsox are in a perfect baseball world.
Doreen,
There were two reasons why the players couldn’t cooperate. One, was the unilateral selection of the investigator.
Although that was unacceptable, the second reason was the most critical. There were two ongoing criminal investigations involving PED’s. One in Northern California (BALCO) and the other in Albany, NY.
The players were not going to be granted immunity from prosection in either case for talking to Mitchell. Therefore, talking to him would put them in legal peril.
That’s the big reason why nobody talked and Mitchell knows that. Which is why blaming the players for not talking, as many members of the media are doing, is wrong.
Nobody is going to talk and put themselves in legal peril.
Giambi talked for one reason. He was granted immunity (stemming from his grand jury testimony) and all he did was discuss his grand jury testimony. He offered no new information.
SJ44 –
Was it me, or did you find a lot of the first part of the report to be repetitive? As I was reading, I kept asking myself, didn’t I just read this a few pages ago?
Doreen December 14th, 2007 at 9:11 am
migames –
I think once the clock goes past 9 a.m., you can pretty much bet the trolls will be in full force. It was extremely upsetting to come to this blog yesterday to check in on the Yankee fan “vibe” and have to scroll through (trying not to read) so many ridiculous and childish posts by Red Sox trolls.
is this a typically yankee fan response?
you have no idea where im from.. i can be from new york, i could be from vegas..
but you are quick to judge
This really isn’t a Boston/New York thing (or shouldn’t be). but I understand the angst of the Yankee fans with respect to the apparent bias. I especially sympathize (as a Pats fan) with the rush to smear the Yankee Dynasty of the late ‘90s with the charge of cheating (therefore tainting their accomplishments).
What I don’t understand is the knee-jerk defense of Roger Clemens. His own “denial” merely demonized the main witness and pointed out that he has never tested positive. He never directly confronts the issue of whether he took PEDs.
Although much of the Mitchell report is sketchy, the detail and facts on Clemens are significant. Also significant is the sea change in body-type after he reached the “twilight of his career” in Boston. He was a .500 pitcher in his last four years in Boston (with 191 wins). Suddenly, at the age of 35, it all turns around and he wins another 160 games??? Please.
Where is your outrage? All of his malarkey about “retiring” to be with his kids, even as he is continuing his PED regimen to squeeze another $20 million out of the Yankees (not counting luxury tax). And all of that drivel about helping young kids to win a ring????? Give me a break.
You’ve been tooled by one of the great cheats and con men of our time. Step back, figure it out, and let him go.
The preponderance of evidence is overwhelming. The standard of proof in this instance is common sense, not the “beyond a reasonable doubt” of a criminal trial.
The guy was a jerk in Boston, and he has evolved into a fraud. That is not the fault of the Yankees or their fans. It is only your fault if you allow yourself to be duped, and to become one of the Clemens apologists/enablers.
Team of the Decade in a perfect baseball world? You are listening too much to WEEI.
Its a little early to award any team that honor. Last I checked, the decade isn’t over yet.
Their GM was fingered in a report acquiring a player with known PED issues and he ok’ed the deal.
That’s FAR from perfect.
It’s funny how the Redsox people were arguing that their team should be on Clemens’ HOF hat and now they don’t even know him.
Doreen and Migames,
Even as a Sox fan I can appreciate the frustration with the idiotic statements that some people are making and taking pot shots at Pettitte and others. At the same time the idiot statements are not limited to red sox trolls and others. Posts on here calling Mitchell a SOB and a “f”ing idiot demonstrate an incredible lack of class.
Thanks, SJ. I kind of knew that players would be putting themselves in jeopardy for talking, but wasn’t clear as to exactly why.
Another problem I was having, is that the report seemed to contradict itself when it said that players were invited to talk and declined, yet in other places when allegations were made the report made a statement that such allegations were made after talking to a player or players. I was never clear whether the report was referring to current or former players in either case.
as a yankee fan i am just hoping that Pettite makes it out ok..
I’m hoping he didnt cheat and he will pitch next season
a week ago he was saying the yanks will be fine without johan, haren, or bedard..
well mr pettite.. i really hope you didnt cheat, because if you did. Not only will the Yanks be fine without you, Baseball will be as well
Mark Feinsand has a good take on the report on his blog.
Blogging the Bombers
Here’s an excerpt:
“People will make up their own minds when it comes to these players. But what about the teams they played for? A look at the four Yankees title teams in the Joe Torre era show several players in this report on those rosters:
1996: Andy Pettitte
1998: Andy Pettitte, Chuck Knoblauch, Mike Stanton, Darren Holmes
1999: Andy Pettitte, Chuck Knoblauch, Roger Clemens, Mike Stanton, Jason Grimsley, Daniel Naulty
2000: Andy Pettitte, Chuck Knoblauch, Roger Clemens, Mike Stanton, Jason Grimsley, David Justice, Jose Canseco, Glenallen Hill, Denny Neagle
That looks pretty bad. But is it? According to the report, Knoblauch’s first purchase of HGH came in 2001. That would mean he was clean during the title years. Same with Justice, who reportedly didn’t meet Kirk Radomski until after the 2000 World Series. Pettitte’s usage was in 2002, according to the report, while Hill’s purchase from Radomski came in 2001, after he had left the Yankees.”
SJ44
If you read my previous post I did say “I’m confident that we will win the next 2 out of 3 world series to compensate.”
So I do know the decade isn’t over. We have no hardware yet this decade so we can’t talk crap and justify how they don’t deserve their credit just like they were doing to us in the 90’s so you can be on denial or accept it till we take over again and then re-claim our bragging rights.
Ray,
I have no patience for name-calling, either, whether the source is a troll or a Yankee fan.
Doreen,
Basically, the report is a remake of a variety of newspaper articles on PED Usage. When they get to the Radonmski and McNamee testimony, it gets more specific with some, not all, the players.
The reality. Its a two person account of their involvement in PED’s. Most of it is single source, which is why it will never hold up under real scrutiny.
Some of it is more specific. Overall, once you get back the titilation of the names involved (which is all most lazy members of the media will talk about), there isn’t a lot of detail involving a lot of these guys usage of PED’s.
Clemens? There are some specifics he is going to have to address if he wants to clear his name. Guys who purchased by check, with the check amount matching the $$ of the PED’s purchased? They are dead. But, those guys are out of the game right now.
Pettitte? He doesn’t have a lot to refute. As I noted earlier, his section doesn’t match the PR hit he is taking.
He either didn’t do it at all, and McNamee is just trying to save his butt or, he did it a couple of times to rehab an injury.
There is nothing in the report to suggest he is a habitual user.
So much for Mitchell’s integrity. This is something everybody knows about, so, not really much news, but, still interesting interview with Paul Byrd.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7365076?print=true
If ballplayers are smart enough to question this sort of thing, there are serious answers due.
As a yankee fan, it does bother me to see some of our players cheat..
especially guys like clemens and pettite..
But, we spend $180mil on our players.. of course anything and everything involving the Yankees will be blown up..
suspend pettite for 50 games and call it good
ATTENTION: ALL NON-YANKEE VISITORS
Cleveland Indians(won divisional series 2007, 1997) 2 rings
Detroit Tigers(won divisional series 2006) 4 rings
Anaheim Angels(won divisional series 2005, 2002) 1 ring
Boston Red Sox(won ALCS 2004) 7 rings
Florida Marlins(won world series 2003) 2 rings
Arizona Diamondbacks(won world series 2001) 1 ring
New York Mets(still crosstown rivals) 2 rings
Atlanta Braves(rivals for mid 90’s) 1 ring
Baltimore Orioles(same division) 3 rings
Toronto Blue Jays(same division)2 rings
2+4+1+7+2+1+2+1+3+2=25 rings
New York Yankees 26 rings
26>25
Best team? The numbers don’t lie. Even if we don’t play for
the next 15 yrs and the Cardinals(10 rings) win the series
15 times consecutively, we’ll still be on top of MLB.
GreenBeret7-
I just wish more people were talking about it..
I know a lot of people think it’s not an issue.. But come on..
Even if he wasn’t actively thinking about it, theres an instict to anyone with an connection to something, to protect it..
Faiaz (Chamberlain & the mound-hunks)
what happens if we dont win for the next 17 years and the cardinals win 17 straight?
hahaha.. i thought it was funny you choose the number 15..
what about 17?
I have a big problem with Feinsand’s list. Its the classic case of lazy reporting.
If a guy isn’t accused of using PED’s until 2001 or 2002, how you do label him as a “user” in 1996?
That’s what he is doing when he compiles a “list” to demonstrate the PED usage among the Yankees in a given year.
Its more for shock value rather than accuracy and that’s unacceptable to me.
I have to be honest. I don’t find Feinsand’s work particularly good. He doesn’t really hustle and that list is an example of it. He writing is blah and really seems to be overmatched working for a major market newspaper. He seems to be better suited working for an internet site. A place where his writing, and accuracy, won’t come under greater scrutiny.
At some point, members of the media have to show some measure of responsibility when writing on this issue.
This isn’t about getting an inning wrong when you discuss when a team rallied to win a game. Or missing how many HR’s Arod has for the season when writing on a particular day.
This is about ruining someone’s reputation.
When you compile a list, and put Andy Pettitte down as a PED user in 1996, when there is NO EVIDENCE ANYWHERE that he used PED’s in 1996, that’s just lazy and inaccurate reporting.
A guy working in a major market needs to be better than that, IMO.
Doreen:
I think the literal answer to your question is no.
One of the appendices to the report, B-9, is the union’s memo to the players. It mentions that the players have every right to talk to Mitchell, but warns them of the very serious potential consequences given all the risks, including the ongoing investigations and, implicitly, the fact that Mitchell cannot promise immunity. It also states toward the end that there is a risk that damaging admissions made in such an interview could be used against the players in subsequent collective bargaining negotiations.
That memo really wasn’t the time or place to make a point about procedural safeguards, since it was directed to players in an attempt to help them make an informed decision about cooperating with Mitchell. But all the issues about the strong jeopardy and risk inherent in cooperating with Mitchell in such a wide open environment were there.
Clearly, the Union memo was designed to limit the risks to its members. I have to believe that the Union now sees the full horror of such an investigation without procedural limits and the issuance of a report without their input. IMO the lessons learned from Mitchell will become concrete when the Union seeks to bargain over the process of MLB player investigations next time out. Maybe the Union will want a full procedural code for investigations just like the have for grievances, including what kinds of evidence is appropriate and installing some rights to have access to accusers. Maybe they will want some say on who conducts the investigations from hereon out. But I can’t imagine they will agree to leave this area as wide open to the Commissioner in the future.
Why should Andy Pettitte get suspended at all? There is NO PROOF he used PED’s. You have one guy, talking in generalities, about injecting Pettitte. That’s it.
That’s grounds for suspension?
Also, there was NO PED POLICY in MLB in 2002. Meaning, the guy didn’t violate any MLB rules. And that’s if you buy McNamee’s story. Which, is shaky at best.
He’s not going to get suspended because there are no grounds for suspension.
Clemens used steroids late in the 2000 season..
17 innings, 0 runs, 3 hits. 24K’s
threw at bat at piazza..
the bat throwing is a clear indication that he was using steroids! he was angry
sj, you are making fiensands point, he goes on to say:
That looks pretty bad. But is it? According to the report, Knoblauch’s first purchase of HGH came in 2001. That would mean he was clean during the title years. Same with Justice, who reportedly didn’t meet Kirk Radomski until after the 2000 World Series. Pettitte’s usage was in 2002, according to the report, while Hill’s purchase from Radomski came in 2001, after he had left the Yankees.
I know the Yankee-haters are going to scream that the title teams are now tainted. I don’t buy it. Will this cause me to look at Clemens’ career differently? Yes. Do I still think he belongs in the Hall of Fame? Yes.
SJ44
ill let Mr Selig decide who does and does not get suspended
On D Ball,
Thank you for pointing out Mr. Mitchells tenure as Majority Leader. He was well known as a partisan hack who could not be trusted to deal fairly. To listen to these shills in the press he is the next coming of Mother Theresa. They are simply doing that to try and isolate him from criticism of this report.
I read about 1/2 the report last night (I probably don’t read as fast as SJ), and Pete nailed it when he said it was a compilation of google searches for media steroid references. He would then use media conventional wisdom to judge the impact of those items.
I am not surprised by the media reporting, but all you hear are Clemens and Petitte over and over, with no context or explanation. It is as I predicted the other day; that these players would be tried in the court of public opinion and it would be like the Duke Lacrosse case all over again.
What is really laughable is the absence of Sosa. This guy visibly shrunk when testing came about. The first time I saw him in an Orioles uniform I almost didn’t recognize him. Sosa (98 version) was built like a bull with very large legs and shoulders. the Orioles version of Sosa was much more like the guy who played for the Rangers.
Unlike several have said in posts McGuire is in the report. There is a lenghty discussion of his use of Andro, so to those of you who keep saying he’s not there read the F-in report please.
Thanks, murphydog. Much appreciated.
SJ44 – I guess you and I got different interpretations of that blurb. I got that those listed names in the report were alleged users, but Feinsand goes on to say that all of the alleged usage happened after the championship years or after they had left the team so the dynasty is untainted. I did not see him actually say or imply that Pettitte was a user during the 1996 season.
Mr. Uh oh
a wise guy huh? maybe u shud change ur name to “Mr. Ha Ha” since ur soooo funny. lolol jus kiddin
Yanksrule57
They do talk about McGuire in the report, but I believe it is in terms of using a substance, andro, that was an over-the-counter product and not banned at the time. The context was that it was an opportunity missed by MLB to further investigate. It was also used to show how major league players, whether they like it or not, influence the general public, specifically young people, by pointing out that after McGuire’s not-technically-illegal use of andro was publicized, the sales of same went up over 1,000%.
So, I’m not sure McGuire was named in the same context as the other players.
Sunny,
My issue is putting the list together that way in the first place.
You are correct, its open to different interpretations.
That’s my point. On an issue such as serious as this, there shouldn’t be any interpretations. Just report it accurately and not open ended.
JMO but, that list could be interpreted in different ways and, at least to me, its lazy reporting.
What’s the total number of players named? 20 out of that are ur players, or is it more?
our players*
what are you talking about that its lazy reporting, he breaks it down and then tells you that they were NOT taking drugs during the yankee championships…if thats not the opposite of what everyone else in the media is doing, then i dont know what is
I am glad A-rod is back, and it is good he publicly threw Boras under the bus, but Scotty boy is still getting his $27.5-$30.5 million from the contract right? I think he can take it.
Does anyone else wish that a sniper would just put a bullet in the back of Jose Canseco’s head?
http://www.realgmbaseball.com/src_wiretap_archives/8783/20071214/canseco_a_rod_got_off_the_hook/
SJ i think you mis-interpretted what he wrote.
All he did was list the players from the championship teams that had been named and the years they played. He then went on to say when they were accused of using to show that it was not in the years they played on the championships. In no way was he saying they used in those years.
The whole premise was to refute those that claim the championship years were tainted.
Out of the 20-40 million dollars that was blown on this report, you would think that they could have found enough money for plane tickets and hotel rooms to fly these investigators to the other major league cities to talk to the seemingly common go-betweens in these drug dealers, and, that’s the clubhouse attendants and trainers. It’s not like that isn’t a big secret. There were 28 other clubhouses and 27 other cities. These people are emplyees of the teams and not union members. Their jobs would depend upon cooperation, and, most certainly they have connections to the other clubbies/trainers in other cities. They network just like everyone else does.
Doreen,
I agree with what you said, but it also said that it was not known at the time that taking Andro essentially was the same as taking a testosterone supplement (Steroids). So it was kind of a roundabout way of saying he was a user.
employees
Mr. Sarcasm(rich)
Call a spade a spade, it just is what it is…FACT. You know what’s original? A team having more rings than their top ten rival-teams put together.
If I misinterpreted what he wrote, my apologies.
Also, since it was on his blog, I don’t view it as reporting. Much like we don’t take Pete’s sarcasm and humor here as reporting. Mark was refuting most people’s claims that the Yankees’ championships from 1996-2000 were tainted… But again, different takes …
or… what gayle said.
All this asterisks stuff is a joke. People cheat, have been since there were people. To think other wise is naive. And please don’t tell me about the kids, I just ate.
Yanksrule 57 –
You are correct.
Grant
December 14th, 2007 at 9:46 am
I am glad A-rod is back, and it is good he publicly threw Boras under the bus, but Scotty boy is still getting his $27.5-$30.5 million from the contract right? I think he can take it.
Anytime a business/agent loses high profile clients like Rodriguez, Andruw Jones and Kenny Rogers because of misrepresented facts knowingly not in the clients best interests, then his base is starting to crumble. If Boras knew that Rodriguez wanted to deal specifically with the Yankees, Boras wasn’t going to get his bidding war. That is probably what led to Boras releasing the opt-out statement on the first day. It became official and left Rodriguez with no other options, especially after Cashman/Steinbrenner’s earlier statements. Boras screwed up and he knows it. He saw a larger paycheck for himself and to Hell with what his boss (Rodriguez) wanted. That’s the same thing that happened with Jones and Rogers. More will follow them, guaranteed.
Even funnier is that dumb as a pile of rocks Ellsbury just signed with Boras.
GreenBeret7
December 14th, 2007 at 10:00 am
Anytime a business/agent loses high profile clients like Rodriguez…——————-
ummm… arod is still his client. Boras didn’t lose arod. albeit- this is arod’s last contract, boras still got his cut and can still call arod his client.
Right now, Boras is stealing Ellsbury’s money, because he’s not making anymore than league minimum anyway. The most Ellsbury can hope for in the next 3 years is a few local endorsements.
Okay, so Mitchell is also the chairman of the Walt Disney Company, parent company of ESPN? It was good of them to gloss over that little nugget throughout all this shoddy reporting. I had known the mainstream media was made up of a bunch of bottom-of-the-barrell hacks, but this is just silly.
Yes,Sunny, I know that Boras is still Rodriguez’agent,but, that may not be for long. He may get his cut on this,but, once Rodrriguez unloads Boras, the real cash cow is gone….Rodriguez’ endorsements.
Mitchell is no longer the Cairman of the Board at Disney. Walt’s nephew pushed him out the door.
Hey guys
I’m off on a four hour drive home today, so just stopping in to say hi.
The Report raises some serious concerns, but you all have said them, so I won’t reiterate them here. Have a great day, and I’ll see you all sometime tonight.
Chairman
I don’t think Arod is going to cut boras. He’s built up too much “equity” according to arod.
amazingly the NY Media takes a shot at our championships, last time I checked we beat teams w/ steroid users and there are still a huge amount of players we played that have yet to be uncovered by MLB which we probably beat along the way.
Rebecca…a four hour tour? Hope that the skipper, Gilliagan, the Howells,Professor aren’t going along. They are bad luck. However if Ginger and Marianne are going to be there, I’ll meet you.
Be safe driving, Rebecca!
drive safely Rebecca
I am not going to buy a paper tonight. People would think I was nuts, because I’m sure I’d be cursing as I was reading articles. I’d much rather read what people are saying here since for the most part it is all thought out and informed.
“about the Red Sox ownership..former used car salesman Bud Selig hand picks his old friends to buy the Sox for $100 million less than the high bidder, by letting it be know that he wouldn’t approve the sale. The affair involving Henry, Loria,Selig stinks from the beginning. At one time, Henry had ownership of both the Marlins and Red Sox until a deal could be made with Loria to swap francises of the Expos and Marlins. Then,baseball becomes the only professional sport to buy it’s own team, successfully stripping it of any money while selling off it’s best players.
Selig wants to get rid of the steroid stain because it’s become an embarrassment to his administration now that he can’t milk anymore money fromit. He brings in a friend to run the operation to clean it up. actually,he brings in the friend’s company and writes Mitchell a blank check.
Mitchell isn’t worried about inproprieties…he has the Irish Truce to prove it. Not one Red sox player on the report was a user during the time with the team, although plenty of speculation about several still on the team. Instead, he names minor players long since gone and fringe players, or those that played with the Sox either before or after the players involvement. Out of at least 225-250 players since 1996 that have played on the Sox, that’s the best he can do? BS. Selig also gets a cut in this deal, to. It hurts the Yankee image, which could cut into profits. He knows that welfare money coming from the Yankees is about to dry up with the new Stadium and close to 100 million coming off of the books by next year.”
Green Beret, you hit the nail on the head. This report was a crime.
Morning – it took me five hours to drive 17 miles home yesterday. I left my office at 1:30, and listened to Sen. Mitchell’s entire press conference in the car. I think what’s been said above perfectly encapsulates how I feel.
Santana can be had for 7 years and $140 mil guaranteed.
ouch.
Minnesota Star Tribune:
“The agent for Johan Santana has told the Yankees, Red Sox and other teams interested in Twins star pitcher that the price to sign him is a minimum of seven years at $20 million per year, for a total of $140 million guaranteed.
The Twins definitely will not meet that price. The Twins did offer Santana his $13.25 million salary for 2008 and four more years for a total of $80 million. The question is, will other clubs pay Santana’s price?
Furthermore, the Twins have given up on signing free agent pitcher Carlos Silva, who is looking for a four-year contract calling for $10 million per year.
There is good reason why the Twins want Red Sox outfielder Jacoby Ellsbury in a Santana deal. Ellsbury hit .452 in 17 games at Class AA Portland and then had a 25-game hitting streak at Class AAA Pawtucket before being called up by Boston. The 2005 first-round pick out of Oregon State hit .353 in 33 games in the majors and then took over as the starting center fielder in the postseason as the Red Sox won the World Series.
The pitcher the Twins want from the Red Sox is Clay Buchholz, who went a combined 8-5 with a 2.44 ERA and 171 strikeouts in 125 1/3 innings between Portland and Pawtucket. When called up by the Red Sox, Buchholz no-hit Baltimore in his second big league start and went 3-1 with a 1.59 ERA in four games.
The Twins are being patient, hoping the Red Sox want Santana bad enough to give up both of the great prospects.”
What about a Matsui for Konerko deal? It makes a lot of sense for both clubs. Yanks unload extra OF and the White Sox unload extra 1B (Thome can take over 1B again).
Safe Driving, Rebecca.
Even though “Red Sock” George Mitchell left him off the list, VARITEK should be known for what he is:
http://tenstarmusic.com/images/VaritekCheater.jpg
I saw that too Sunny, though I’ve heard some folks on other boards question this particular reporter’s, uh, mental acuity on previous occasions. Good info but I guess worth taking with a grain of salt.
With that said, no way would I give him 7 years. I’d rather give 5 years at 25 mil per.
Before this report came out, I loved the Yankees. Just as many fans for the other teams, I STILL LOVE THE GAME AND THE NEW YORK YANKEES
“New York Yankees 26 rings
26>25″
a count the rings comment? pretty original…
It doesn’t have to be original to be true.
I’m guessing Chicagowould want young pitchers at least, a couple, along with a young infielder. They are short of both,and, they’re trying to unload salary. I think they’d probably bemoving either Crede or Fields to first. Then, too,they may ask for Cabrera.
Sunny 615 –
Lost in everything yesterday was the Twins signing SS Adam Everett resulting in no need for Boston SS prospect Jed Lowrie.
The Twins clearly want Ellsbury, Buchholz + or no deal.
“What about a Matsui for Konerko deal? It makes a lot of sense for both clubs. Yanks unload extra OF and the White Sox unload extra 1B (Thome can take over 1B again).”
We talked about this a bit yesterday…your reasoning doesn’t make sense. Thome left the NL because he can’t play 1B full-time anymore. The White Sox also don’t really need a corner OFer. Yes, they’re willing to shop Konerko, but not for a corner OFer they don’t need.
Now, Damon they might be interested in, if they’re sold on his ability to play CF still. They do need a CFer, and I think they need a leadoff guy as well.
I, personally, would love to have Konerko for the next three years. His bat was ok last year despite an epic slump, and I think he’s a good rebound candidate. He’s righty, which the Yanks need, and he’s a solid defender at a position of some need. I move Jeter and Bobby up a slot, and have Konerko, Jason and Matsui somehow assorted in the 3, 5 and 6 holes. Or maybe Cano up as high as 6, with Matsui behind him.
Hey Yanqui fans !!!!
Sammy is squeaky clean, ripe and available. Toot sweet !
“Lost in everything yesterday was the Twins signing SS Adam Everett resulting in no need for Boston SS prospect Jed Lowrie.”
That just isn’t true. Everett is the definition of all-field no-hit. He’s a complement to the guy they got from TB. Lowrie’s a much better hitter, but a poor fielder.
Anyway, if they’re targeting Ellsbury AND Buchholz, that’s much more in line with what they were asking for from the Yanks. It’s probably more. Buchholz and Crisp is about equal to Hughes + Melky, given the contract stuff wrt Crisp.
If they’re holding out for that deal, they’re not serious about moving Santana. Which is completely fine with me.
no way would Boston give up Ellsbury + Buchholz + for Santanna and pay 20,000,000 for 7 years. same with the Yanks ( Hughes + Kennedy +). Minny hope your happy with draft picks.
WHY????? WHY, PETER????? WHY DO YOU DELETE MY COMMENTS??? RAWJAH NEEDS ME RIGHT NOW!!!!! I\’M GOING TO PUT MYSELF IN A SYRINGE SO RAWJAH CAN INJECT ME AND I CAN HELP HIM ON THE INSIDE WHERE IT HURTS RIGHT NOW1111 HE\’S… OH MY… HE\’S IN THE OWNER\’S BOX!!!! RAWJAH IS IN GEORGIE\’S BOX!!!!! OF ALL THE DRAMATIC!!!!! I HAVE TO GET UP THERE!!!! RAWJAH IS IN THE MEN\’S STALL IN GEORGE\’S BOX!!! OF ALL THE DRAMATIC!!!
that’s why we need registration
Bargains Unlimited – yep. The Twins will undoubtedly wait all winter I’d wager. And if not then, then most definitely by the trade deadline.
Also, if the Twinkies want Ellsbury/Buccholz from the Sox, I doubt they’d give a discount to the Yankees. Hughes/Kennedy is probably their minimum asking price.
Whozat :
Throw LHP Mark Buehrle in the deal and expand it. Add Gardner, Betemit, and Marquez.
Those Susyn comments are actually pretty funny. Blogs need people like that sometimes to add some flavor, humor and stupidity. Peter should’nt go around deleting all those posts. This blog takes itself way to seriously.
The Mitchell report “named names” was not a comprehensive list. (the Senator would be the first one to admit that)
Unfortunately, baseball wants us to tie a little pink bow on the report, close the book on the steroid era and move forward. Of course, now we get fans and media screaming WAIT – what about this guy, what about that guy! No Sosa? No Pudge? You must be joking!
Sorry folks… the book is closed. Baseball is only looking forward now.
For a man of Mitchell’s so-called esteemed stature to enter those names in a public record is a disgrace. What benefit does it provide? Other than titilating the media and public?
It’s no different than a London rag sticking a topless girly pic on page 3. It helps sell the paper.
I would love for someone to prove to me how BUYING steroids gives that player an unfair advantage on the baseball field.
USING steroids is another story. The only way to really detect usage is via a drug test.
To have a player listed in this report based upon his so called conversation with another player (Brian Roberts for example)is irresponsible. Shame on George Mitchell for sinking to an all time low.
LONG TIME—RAWJAH, JOE, GEORGIE AND I COULDN\’T AGREE MORE!!!!! REGISTRATION WOULD BE, OF ALL THE DRAMATIC, REGISTRATION WOULD PROVE MY LOVE FOR RAWJAH!!! I WOULD TAKE THE SCREEN NAME RAWJAHLUVAH420 AND HANG IN THE DUGOUT WITH DUDYERGETTINADELMONYOUNG!!!!!!! RAWJAH IS IN GEORGE STEINBRENNER\’S BOX!!!!!!
why aren’t these kids in school?
HAHAHA
I just heard that the Mitchell Report is now available in a nice quilted two-ply version…
Let’s get some positive enerny boiling co-Yankee-fans. Here’s another fact me ang my jack russell terrier(she loves Jeff Conine for some aparrent reason) came up with…
Other than the St. Louis Cardinals, Boston Red Sox, Pittsburgh Pirates, Los Angeles Dodgers, Cincinnati Reds, Detroit Tigers & Oakland Athletics, the total number of rings won by the other 22 teams in MLB 2008 is 23. So the Yankees have 3 more rings than 75.8% of the MLB teams they are competing against in 2008, put together.
It must be a snow day in Boston…
Suzyn, keep going.
——, HOW DID YOU KNOW I WAS FROM BOSTON? BY THE WAY, THAT\’S A FABULOUS NAME,——!!!!!!!! OR SHOULD I SAY FABULOUS HANDLE!!!!! THAT\’S INTERNETS-SPEAK, RIGHT——???????? I FEEL SO HIP!!!! LIKE OPENING NIGHT OF \”MAN OF LA MANCHA\” WHEN I WAS, OF ALL THE DRAMATIC, DULCINEA!!!! RAWJAH IS, OH MY, OF ALL THE DRAMATIC!!!! HE WAS CHASED OUT OF BOSTON JUST LIKE ME!!!! NOW HE\’S HIDING OUT IN THE LAST STALL OF THE MEN\’S ROOM IN MY FRIEND, OF ALL THE DRAMATIC, GEORGIE\’S BOX, OF ALL THE DRAMATIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!! JOHN, JOHN, GET OVER HERE AND LOOK AT RAWJAH!!!!! THESE TEARS ARE FOR THE COACHES, OF ALL THE DRAMATIC!!!! I HAVE TO GET UP THERE!!!! TOODLES,——
LOL
What happened to the list posted on NBC at 11:43am yesterday that named Varitek?
“Faiaz (Chamberlain & the mound-hunks)
December 14th, 2007 at 10:59 am
Let’s get some positive enerny boiling co-Yankee-fans. Here’s another fact me ang my jack russell terrier(she loves Jeff Conine for some aparrent reason) came up with…
Other than the St. Louis Cardinals, Boston Red Sox, Pittsburgh Pirates, Los Angeles Dodgers, Cincinnati Reds, Detroit Tigers & Oakland Athletics, the total number of rings won by the other 22 teams in MLB 2008 is 23. So the Yankees have 3 more rings than 75.8% of the MLB teams they are competing against in 2008, put together.”
Wait so you came up with this stat with your dog, a Jack Russel Terrier named Ang who is a huge fan of Jeff Conine…??
wow.
It must be a school day.
Tim that’s what I’m wondering where did that other list come from? The other list looked more accurate with players on there that you can say “yeah I can see him using it”. It had bigger names on it than the “official” list did.
I brought the list up when I heard it mentioned on 0950AM radio, a Philly station. 3 minutes later it was yanked off the site. I have a copy if you would like to see it.
Trot Nixon
Jason Varitek
Albert Pujols
Johnny Damon
Julian Taveras
What happened to these names? They feel off in 2hrs very fishy..
Sorry, Suzy highjacked my laptop and Superglued the caps lock. I had to go find some solvent to unstick the key. Suzy is climbing across the facade towards the owner’s box, but there’s nobody in there – in fact, it’s iced over. She hasn’t been the same since that day Roger announced his return. Something inside of her just snapped. She announced yesterday, to nobody in particular, that she would be undertaking a massive campaign to clear Roger’s name, including getting on the ‘internets’ as she calls it, and finding a scientist to shrink her, a la ‘Innerspace’ (the brilliant Martin Short vehicle), so that she can be injected into Roger and save him from the inside out. Oh, wait!!! She’s falling, she’s falling, sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee’s fallen!!! Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuzyn has fallen!!!
Bich
aw how cute, a member of the “hate-yankees” club. Isn’t it an initiation task for u guys to bite sumthin that rhymes w stick?
I meant snowday. Kids should have to go to school no matter the weather. When I was in school they never closed! There was a day when everything was covered in ice, I still had to go. Now one inch of snow falls and they close school.
Dr. Cox
LOL obviouslyi meant anD n her name is Zuba.
Did anyone else see this list. I brought the list up when I heard it mentioned on 0950AM radio, a Philly station. 3 minutes later it was yanked off the site. I have a copy if you would like to see it.
Trot Nixon
Jason Varitek
Albert Pujols
Johnny Damon
Julian Taveras
What happened to these names? They feel off in 2hrs very fishy..
Tim NJ
I heard about that list too.. I think it was the “rumors” list. I’m not sure where it came from, but i thought for sure at least Varitek, Foulke and either Manny, Ortiz, Millar, Nixon, or Kapler would be on it.
“Throw LHP Mark Buehrle in the deal and expand it. Add Gardner, Betemit, and Marquez.”
That deal makes even less sense than the Matsui/Konerko deal…which would make sense if they hadn’t already traded for Carlos Quentin, who can only play corners. They’re not going to trade for a young guy and then get a pricey vet to block him.
So, you’re proposing
Damon + Gardner + Betemit + Marquez for Buehrle + Konerko
The ChiSox already traded away one SP this offseason, they’re not going to trade away another. This deal doesn’t replace Buehrle or Garland in any way. Marquez isn’t ready to start in MLB and could easily never be. Gardner has to show that he can keep his OBP and AVG up at AAA in order to force his way into the majors. I guess Betemit would be a nice piece for them, but you’re trying to make a deal with quantity that makes no sense. Why would the ChiSox do this deal?
not sure if this has been posted, but the star tribune says johan wants 7/140 if traded. funny writeup on that here:
http://mlbfleecefactor.com/2007/12/14/johan-santana-update-hes-out-to-fleece/
“I’m not sure where it came from”
It came from “anonymous sources” that clearly just aggregated all the rumored names we’ve heard for the last several years and got some headline-thirsty irresponsible journalists to publish it.
The other names didn’t “drop off” in two hours…they were never in.
yeah I wonder how all those Sawks (& Pujols) were removed from the original list.
Maybe George Mitchell (member of the Boston Red Sox front office) had something to do with it? Maybe?
http://www.tenstarmusic.com/images/VaritekCheater.jpg
Pete just emailed me, “it was a phony list that some stupid outlets believed was real.”
Thanks Pete for the clarification.
Kirk Radomski and Brian McNamee are tried and true, cheese loving, gnawing rats with an occasional fondness of peanut butter.