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Haren traded, Santana could be next

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Dec 15, 2007 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Now that Oakland has traded Dan Haren to Arizona, the Johan Santana chase just got more interesting.

The loser(s) no longer have Haren as a backup plan. The only other No. 1 on the market is Erik Bedard and Baltimore probably isn’t going to trade him within the division.

That should expedite the trade talks. Boston’s interest has cooled considerably since the Winter Meetings. The Mets want in, but won’t give up Jose Reyes. Could the Yankees fill the void?

Brian Cashman has gone J.D. Salinger since Nashville. But Hank Steinbrenner admits that no doors have been closed. This could play out like the Randy Johnson trade, when the Yankees walked away in December only to acquire the big lefty in January.

Before you start dreaming of Santana in pinstripes, keep in mind that Oakland got a load of talent for Haren. Based on the Baseball America list, Arizona traded four of its top eight prospects including its top guy, OF Carlos Gonzalez.

Minnesota didn’t think Phil Hughes, Melky Cabrera and B-list prospect was enough earlier this month. They certainly aren’t settling for that package now.

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486 Responses to “Haren traded, Santana could be next”

  1. MikeinBH December 15th, 2007 at 12:17 am

    Would Kennedy, Melky, Horne, Marquez and Hilligoss get it done?

  2. jaffa December 15th, 2007 at 12:18 am

    with Haren gone and Bedard unavailable the price will have gone up, not down.

  3. whatever December 15th, 2007 at 12:19 am

    Unless you’ve found that wide-rumored missing page in the Mitchell report concerning David Ortiz, don’t bother with the steroid talk anymore.

  4. CB December 15th, 2007 at 12:23 am

    Posted this on the other thread – didn’t see the new one specific to the trade…

    I think the Haren trade makes it much more difficult for the Twins to trade Santana.

    Beane got a ton of talent for Haren. Now the market for Haren was probably much larger, but can Smith now take less than what his demands were for a deal and still face the Twins fan base?

    Can Smith do a deal without getting back Ellsbury and Lester or Hughes and Kennedy if Beane got Gonzalez and Anderson plus 4 other players for Haren?

    I don’t know that the Twins will be able to swallow getting less than what the A’s got. Both the A’s and Yankees offers were significantly less than what the D’Backs traded.

    Haren is much more affordable. But Santana is Santana.

    I think those comments from Hank are just more posturing given the persistent rumors coming out about the Sox interest.

    I don’t see either the Sox or Yankees giving up anwhere close to the package the D’Backs parted with.

    Smith is in a very tough spot.

  5. MikeinBH December 15th, 2007 at 12:23 am

    I don’t think the price for Santana will go up. Only 2-4 teams can afford 7 years and $140 million. Only about 3 teams have the prospects to intrigue Minnesota and only 2 of those teams reported interest. Haren has an afforable salary and is signed for a few more years. Santana is a pending FA facing a BOATLOAD of money. That certainly decreases the return Minnesota can get. I think expecting back a package similar to what Oakland got for Haren is optimistic and certainly NOT too little.

  6. MikeinBH December 15th, 2007 at 12:25 am

    Smith has to trade him CB. He definitely will not sign with Minny. Let’s say the Yanks offer Melky, Ian, Horne, Hilligoss and Marquez. How can Bill Smith justify to the fans, taking two draft picks over a starting CF with major-league experience, 2 top pitching prospects and two other mid-level prospects? You are not going to get that out of two draft picks.

  7. DVB December 15th, 2007 at 12:27 am

    Yankees Opening Day Starting Rotation:

    Santana ( ON THE MOUND )
    Pettitte
    Wang
    Joba
    Hughes
    Kennedy / Mussina

    Book It, Dano !

  8. CB December 15th, 2007 at 12:29 am

    I agree that the market for Haren was much larger.

    But the Twins need to justify their new publicly financed stadium to their fan base.

    While the market for Santana is more limited than the one for Haren, Haren is nowhere near the pitcher that Santana is.

    From a public relations standpoint I don’t see the Twins decreasing their asking price. They’ve been very public about what they want. I don’t think they can settle for less. It’s Bill Smith’s first move. The offers he has on the table from the yankees and sox aren’t just a little less than what Beane got – they are considerably less.

    At this point he may have to keep Santana and start the season.

    Getting back 3 players, even if one is Phil Hughes will be a tough sell in Minnesota after Beane got 6 talented to very talented players for a lesser pitcher than Haren.

  9. TurnTwo December 15th, 2007 at 12:29 am

    sure, they traded 4 of their top 8 prospects, but what actual value do these players have?

    from what i understand, more than a couple are years away from really contributing, and just because they are top 8 in the DBacks system, how do they really rank to those arms in the Yankees farm?

    the OF, Carlos Gonzalez, who was the centerpiece has potential, but noone in that deal had an upside of a number 1-2 in a staff, or is a lock down all-star, let alone a regular mlb-ready player.

    and the dbacks are only on the hook for $16 million over the next 3 years, so they can afford to give up more talent in the deal. the twins shouldnt expect the same type of structure in a deal for johan… the parameters are much different by comparison.

    and not for nothing, but with HAren finally gone, it looks like the doors have opened for the fire sale in Oakland. Would it be more valueable for the yankees to trade a couple of pitchers below the holy trinity for Huston Street, instead of trading a Hughes package for Johan at this point in the game? Prior was non-tendered, but in the same respect, why not ask about Harden, who could be considered a classic high risk/high reward type acquisition…

  10. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") December 15th, 2007 at 12:29 am

    I think CB is on the money on this one, think about it Bill Smith is basically stuck in a bad position the only good thing he can do is get Terry Ryan to resign Johan, because I seriously doubt NYY wants to part w/ Philip Hughes I sure as hell wouldn’t, and there shouldn’t be any 5 or 6 for 1 deals for someone heading into the down slide of his career as it seems, Terry Ryan most likely looks to Smith and wonders how Fla gets a whole house and how Oak gets a whole house yet you want me to settle for a bathroom ?

    I’m guessing he resigns Santana to a longterm deal of 20 per and then tries to trade him later on

  11. Save Phil Hughes! December 15th, 2007 at 12:30 am

    Save Phil Hughes.

  12. Evil Empire December 15th, 2007 at 12:30 am

    screw the sweepstakes, lets dance. i want wang / pettitte / hughes / joba / moose or ipk. its time to let the trinity rise from the ashes and burn the bronx down. YEA YEA

  13. CB December 15th, 2007 at 12:32 am

    “How can Bill Smith justify to the fans, taking two draft picks over a starting CF with major-league experience, 2 top pitching prospects and two other mid-level prospects?”

    MikeBH,

    I agree – two draft picks are an awful return. But what your discounting is the 2008 season.

    If Smith says we’re keeping Santana and going to take our shot I don’t think their fan base will think that’s a dumb move. They weren’t screaming bloody murder when hunter left.

    At the same time its not unreasonable for them to say, you know what – Liriano is coming back. Let’s go for it. The Detroit trade made it more difficult for them to do it. But I just don’t see how Smith can take a much lesser package even if that’s what the market dictates. How does he sell that to Morneau and Mauer? The fans?

    Smith is stuck.

  14. MikeinBH December 15th, 2007 at 12:33 am

    I disagree Brandon. If Smith cannot sign Santna, he HAS to trade him. The fans will CRUCIFY him if Santana walks at the end of next year for two draft picks. The only way Santana remains a Twin is if Pohlad forks over the $$$$$$ to meet johan’s asking price. Doesn’t look like that is going to happen.

  15. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") & dammit SAVE HUGHES !!! December 15th, 2007 at 12:33 am

    I agree I’d rather dance w/ the team I got let Minny dangle w/e we can’t let other teams dictate what our FO should do, this is how we got into this position

  16. james' December 15th, 2007 at 12:35 am

    I always felt Haren had more value do to his contract.

  17. MikeinBH December 15th, 2007 at 12:36 am

    But CB, so you tell your fans “we’re going for it” in 2008???? Trying to compete with the Indians and the Tigers, not to mention the Angels, Yanks and Sox??? The Twins aren’t going to the World Series. I doubt they are even making the playoffs unless the Tigers and Indians completely fall apart. Unlike the Sox and Yanks, the Twins don;t have the best shot of making the playoffs year in and year out. If they wannted to tell their fans they were going for it this year, THEY would have stepped in and tried to acquire Cabrera and Willis and not let one of their top rivals upgrade so greatly.

  18. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") & dammit SAVE HUGHES !!! December 15th, 2007 at 12:36 am

    MikeinBH here’s what I said :

    “Terry Ryan most likely looks to Smith and wonders how Fla gets a whole house and how Oak gets a whole house yet you want me to settle for a bathroom ?

    I’m guessing he resigns Santana to a longterm deal of 20 per and then tries to trade him later on”

    another words Terry Ryan isn’t poor the Twins most likely dangle Santana around if there is no taker they’d probably resign him to a longterm deal to save face

  19. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") & dammit SAVE HUGHES !!! December 15th, 2007 at 12:38 am

    MikeinBH, if Liriano returns, Santana & Liriano could be a tough combo in the AL

  20. MikeinBH December 15th, 2007 at 12:39 am

    Brandon:

    Not if history is precedant. Carl Pohlad has NEVER forked ove the dough to keep his free agents. The only one who ever stayed was Brad Radke and that is because he always took less. Doubt Santana is as generous with Pohlad.

  21. MikeinBH December 15th, 2007 at 12:42 am

    Santana and Liriano would be tough. But Liriano is a big IF right now. Can Santana, Liriano, Mauer and Morneau do it alone against Willis, Verlander, Rogers, Bonderman, Pudge, Sheff, Guillen, Polanco, Renteria, Cabrera, Granderson, and Ordonez or Sabathia, Carmona, Westbrook, Betancourt, Perez, Martinez, Garko, Peralta, Hafner, Sizemore, etc.

  22. TurnTwo December 15th, 2007 at 12:42 am

    right now, the Twins, for as good as Santana is, would be almost in the same position with its staff than the Yankees, in that its young, and has an incredibly high ceiling, but its largely unproven.

    right now, i’d imagine you’d have Johan, Liriano, Bonser, Baker, and Slowey, right?

    talented? sure, but there is a lot of uncertainty there, even with johan sticking around… who knows what type of pitcher liriano will be for 2008 coming off surgery?

  23. TurnTwo December 15th, 2007 at 12:43 am

    my point being, they arent going to be able to compete, Johan or not… they have to deal him.

  24. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") & dammit SAVE HUGHES !!! December 15th, 2007 at 12:43 am

    assuming Pohlad’s GM doesn’t get what he wants they’re not looking to deal just to deal, I understand wanting him in NY, I understand the packages your proposing but understand that organization whether it’s Mickey Moude or not running it is not taking a just to deal and save face move, if they want to they can resign Santana

  25. CB December 15th, 2007 at 12:47 am

    “But CB, so you tell your fans “we’re going for it” in 2008???? Trying to compete with the Indians and the Tigers, not to mention the Angels, Yanks and Sox???”

    I understand how crazy that sounds. But think of it this way – the Twins are perpetually in this position. Every single year they are huge underdogs to those other teams.

    So in that respect the 2008 becomes even more valuable to them – this may be their last chance to win for the next decade because they have Santana and Liriano.

    If you’re the Twins I don’t think you can give up the the opportunity the 2008 season represents lightly.

    They have to get some minimal return for Santana to give up the “opportunity cost” of foregoing their shot in 2008. The dynamics of them being a small market long shot are never changing unless a hard cap goes into effect (which isn’t happenning).

    I agree that getting two picks is the worst long term outcome for them. But as a new GM Smith has to think about how he’s going to sell what he’s doing right now.

    If he’s thinking – I make the wild card – short series I have santana and liriano starting and Neshek and Nathan (assuming they keep him to go for it in 2008) to shorten the game.

    I think this trade makes it very hard for Smith to accept what’s been offerred. At the worst I think he’ll hold santana if he doesn’t get the two stud prospects he’s looking for and revisit the situation at the trade deadline after he sees how his team is doing.

  26. Speculation December 15th, 2007 at 12:48 am

    On the other hand, it may drive the price for Santana up beyond what anybody’s willing to pay. Do you really think that the best pitcher in baseball right now is worth the entire farm system and $120M? I think the smart gamble is to bet that nobody will pay what the Twins will ask and sign him as a FA next year or feel confident that you can beat the Sox if they give up Ellsbury, Lester, ‘Holz, etc. Honestly, I think Cash and Theo will opt for cash next year or wait for the Twins to get desperate. Who else is going to give them what they want, anyway?

  27. MikeinBH December 15th, 2007 at 12:50 am

    You are not understanding me. Pohlad has NEVER paid up. IF he refuses to meet Santana’s asking price, he HAS to then trade him. You keep talking as though the Twins still consider signing him as an option. I don’t believe that IS an option. If it isn’t, then you have 2 choices, deal him or lose him to FA and get two draft picks. If I’m Bill Smith and my owner does NOT give me the ok to fork over $20M a year, then I am making the best trade I can, whether it is settling or not. No fan can criticise a GM for taking the best deal out there when his hands are tied. 2 draft picks are certainly not the best deal.

  28. whoa December 15th, 2007 at 12:50 am

    Hughes > Santana

  29. CB December 15th, 2007 at 12:53 am

    “On the other hand, it may drive the price for Santana up beyond what anybody’s willing to pay.”

    I agree with this. I think this Haren trade makes it more likely Santana doesn’t get traded – or at least not until the trade deadline.

  30. Lamar December 15th, 2007 at 12:54 am

    Save Phil Hughes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  31. mel December 15th, 2007 at 12:57 am

    If Minny was going to pay up, they wouldn’t be shopping him. Even if they wanted to keep him, they know that Santana has one foot out the door. Once the “t” word (trade) comes up that’s it, can’t take it back.

    Stay the course, Cashman. It’s just a big chess game and the only two playing are you and Theo.

  32. Buddy Biancalana December 15th, 2007 at 1:02 am

    If the Yankees can somehow get Santana w/o giving up Hughes, it would be an amazing deal.

  33. Sandman December 15th, 2007 at 1:04 am

    I think the Yankees shouldn’t give up Phil but Kenndy,Horne,Jackson,Marquiz and B-Prospect.Santana is gonna give you more then what Kennedy and Horne can even project or even dream about.

  34. GRRRRRRRRRR December 15th, 2007 at 1:04 am

    I thought Abreu’s comments in Newsday were interesting. It could be that Santana has made his desires known to the Twins on where he wants to play. While I can see that he would not put that out publicly, it wouldn’t be that far out there to think he wouldn’t say it privately to his current club.

    In a way that is the more fair way of operating – let them know that no matter what this team is offering, I have no intention of signing a long term deal with them.

  35. Buddy Biancalana December 15th, 2007 at 1:05 am

    Does Kennedy, Melky, Tabata, Horne & either Marquez/Hilligoss get it done?

  36. Buddy Biancalana December 15th, 2007 at 1:07 am

    Brandon-

    You should trade in your Bernard King jersey for a Monta Ellis jersey.

  37. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") & dammit SAVE HUGHES !!! December 15th, 2007 at 1:09 am

    I’m not even there I see it just like the Yankees said

    untouchables: Philip Hughes, Robi Cano, Dellin Betances, Alan Horne, Austin Jackson, Ian Kennedy and José Tabata

    anyone else by all means talk

  38. mel December 15th, 2007 at 1:11 am

    Anybody but Hughes. Cash will quit if Hank makes him trade away his favorite action figure. That’s the card Cash holds.

  39. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") & dammit SAVE HUGHES !!! December 15th, 2007 at 1:12 am

    December 15th, 2007 at 1:07 am
    Brandon-
    You should trade in your Bernard King jersey for a Monta Ellis jersey.

    what did Bernard do ?, I’d spit on an Isiah Thomas jersey right now if I saw one…go ahead say I won’t

  40. EY December 15th, 2007 at 1:14 am

    SAVE PHIL HUGHES

    Now with Haren gone, Minnesota’s gonna ask for even more for Santana because they know they can drive the price up. I say no to any package that asks for BOTH Kennedy and Hughes – you know they now have the guts to ask for it. I can see it already: Twinkies asking for Hughes, Melky, and Kennedy.

    Hell, I said no to any package that involved Kennedy in the first place.

    Even Boston might not be able to afford Santana now. Hank and Cashman should stay put and not get burgled by the Twinkies. We should wait till July then check on Santana again – the chances are he’s not going to get traded in the Winter. Come July, let’s see how Joba and Hughes and Kennedy panned out, then see if we have a need for Santana. No reason to dump our entire farm in a hurry.

  41. Raven December 15th, 2007 at 1:17 am

    What if the Twins never wants Hughs and Kennedy?
    What if they want Joba?
    Well you go-get-Santana people hand out Joba?

  42. Drew December 15th, 2007 at 1:18 am

    I wonder if the Twins aren’t asking more of the Sox. I can’t imagine Boston holding things up because they don’t want to include both Ellsbury and Lester.

    Plus I think team are worried about 7 years-140 mill.

  43. GRRRRRRRRRR December 15th, 2007 at 1:18 am

    What will be sweet is if the Triplets end up all doing very well, and the Twinkies fans cry that they could have had Hughes.

  44. Sandman December 15th, 2007 at 1:19 am

    Jose Tabtha,Alan Horne and Jackson and Kennedy are not untouchable for Santana.Santana on this club will win 20 games at least three times and at least 1 or 2 Cy Youngs.If Santana was on this team and had 4 more wins to his resume he would have won the CY Young because his stats in other areas were better then C.C Sabthia and Beckett.

  45. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") & dammit SAVE HUGHES !!! December 15th, 2007 at 1:24 am

    we won 96 games with more than 10 starts by AA and A ball pitchers last season, we are not that desperate for 20 wins from one SP when we can get 15 from 2 going out. Santana is not a must Sandman especially for those guys you claim aren’t untouchable, we should be focusing on building a new dynasty not building one for another team.

  46. Phil December 15th, 2007 at 1:25 am

    If the Yanks get him, Hughes won’t be in the deal.

  47. mel December 15th, 2007 at 1:31 am

    Drew, there was a link to the Minny paper in another thread that the pitcher the Twins have their eye on is Laptops. It wasn’t clear if the ransom was Laptops AND Elsbury.

    They also stated Johan would want at least 7/$20M. I thought this was to get Boston to move because we know there’s only 1 team that would pay that much.

    Hank’s quoted in one of the NY papers that the door is still open for a Santana trade.

    I will lose a lot of respect for Hank if he trades Hughes for Santana. Cuz that means that everything that comes out of his mouth is BS and teams will continue to rob us. Cash got the club to the point where the Yankees are in the driver’s seat. Instead Hank can’t keep his hands off the wheel and they’re going to CRASH! O.k. just a little overboard with the analogy. :)

  48. james' December 15th, 2007 at 1:45 am

    A person who has spoken to Minnesota management and asked not to be named because he is not authorized to speak for the team said the Yankees told the Twins they would get back into the Santana talks if they can shed the contract of left fielder Hideki Matsui.

    http://www.nj.com/yankees/ledg.....038;coll=1

    I don’t buy it I think the writer invented this person and for what’s worth the Yankees have expressed interest in Prior – a duh ya think

  49. E-ROC December 15th, 2007 at 2:06 am

    Save Hughes. Save the World!

  50. how? December 15th, 2007 at 2:30 am

    Conseco said the list was missing many names and then added that A-Rod is not who he appears.

  51. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") & dammit SAVE HUGHES !!! December 15th, 2007 at 2:35 am

    Alex Rodriguez was not named in the Mitchell Report yesterday, and the reason is simple, according to A-Rod.

    He never used steroids.

    Alex Rodriguez denies steroid use, HGH and PEDs

  52. back bench December 15th, 2007 at 2:38 am

    How does the reported Yankee interest in Prior factor into the Santana equation? It was also confirmed that dumping Matsui’s salary was a key requirement in the Santana equation. Too many variables…or just smoke and mirrors?

  53. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") & dammit SAVE HUGHES !!! December 15th, 2007 at 2:46 am

    As for Prior, the Astros, Reds, Rangers, Phillies, and Padres may be the most interested clubs.

    back bench, little if any at all, Prior is still a big risk w/ high reward if his arm lasts, Santana to NY is not going to be reasoned because of Mark Prior, and if Prior does return it’d be for a minor league deal.

  54. E-ROC December 15th, 2007 at 2:53 am

    I would give Mark Prior an incentive deal. Big risk with an even bigger reward.

    Santana isn’t going to happen. I can’t see Cash Money giving up 4 top 10 Yankee talent for Santana and $140 million like the Haren deal.

    The Yanks can trade for Joe Nathan.

  55. Sandman December 15th, 2007 at 3:01 am

    Brandon-

    Your right we should be looking for a next dynasy but remember this isn’t a rebuilding team we have Joba as our future ACE and Kennedy as a back of the rotation guy and Wang.The late 90′s had there farm players but they also had stars.Yu need to get a guy that can give you 200 inninngs.

    Joba,Kennedy and Phl can’t give you 160 each without risking future injuries.I want Hughes but Sanatana can be a domiant pitcher for the next 5 years until Joba,Kenney and other pitchers go through there setbacks.You ain’t beating Beckett and Santana in the Regualr season or Post season no matter how good the “big three” are.Santana is better then the “big three” and Hank knows you won’t get a pitcher like this in his prime on the trade market.

  56. Suzyn Waldman December 15th, 2007 at 3:34 am

    Kavitha – WELL OF ALL THE DRAMATIC, I CAN\’T BELIEVE I\’VE BEEN INSIDE OF RAWJAH FOR ALMOST TWELVE HOURS — OF ALL THE DRAMATIC — RAWJAH IS IN MY BOX — HIS SYRINGE IS SO LARGE ONLY BECAUSE, OF ALL THE DRAMATIC, I HAVE TO FIT INSIDE SO KOBY AND JOHN STERLING CAN, OF ALL THE DRAMATIC, INJECT ME AGAIN, BUT I BELONG TO NASA, OF ALL THE DRAMATIC, THESE TEARS ARE FOR THOSE WHO DIED ON THE LAUNCH, OF ALL THE, OH MY, PAD, THEY NEEDED MCNAMEE TO CUSHION THE BLOW, OF ALL THE , TOODLES, WE\’RE GOING TO THE VEHICLE ASSEMBLY BUILDING, OF ALL THE DRAMATIC…. — TOODLES — RAWJAHLUVAH420

  57. drdoom December 15th, 2007 at 3:52 am

    Actually Kennedy can easily touch 200 IP this year. Joba and Hughes are the ones that definitely won’t clear 175.

  58. mel December 15th, 2007 at 4:40 am

    OF ALL THE DRAMATICS!

  59. GRRRRRRRRRR December 15th, 2007 at 4:42 am

    With 6 pitchers the inning limitations won’t be as big a concern unless there are injuries. Kennedy will be able to contribute the full load of work.

  60. mel December 15th, 2007 at 4:52 am

    GRRRR,

    Barring injury of course. Joba said he’s reached 150 in a season so he’s confident he can carry some of the load.

    It’ll be interesting to see how they divvy up the innings. If one or more of the six should be injured, then Karstens will probably step in.

    Even though it’ll be a flex rotation, hopefully we won’t have what we had last year, auditions in the Bronx for B-Pitchers.

  61. Giuseppe Franco December 15th, 2007 at 5:24 am

    I believe this Haren deal actually helps the Yanks.

    Yes, the price for Santana just went up and that’s not good for any potential trade partner.

    That said (and I could be wrong about this), I really don’t believe the Yanks were willing to give up Hughes and the other prospects the Twins were asking for in return anyways, so it’s almost a moot point. If the Yanks were unwilling to meet the Twins’ demands two weeks ago, it’s less likely they would meet those demands now that the price has gone up.

    This deal helps the Yanks is because it also drives up the price for the Red Sox. After watching Haren get shipped to Arizona for that much beef, does anyone think Bill Smith can now settle for Ellsbury and the rest of the marginal prospects they might have considered two weeks ago from Theo and Co.?

    I don’t think so. Bill Smith has to sell this trade to the fans in Minnesota and I don’t believe the Twins’ faithful would be impressed by a deal centering around Ellbury after watching Billy Beane raid the D-Backs farm in exchange for a pitcher not in Santana’s league.

    Granted, the one-year left on his current deal and subsequent contract extension is a major difference, but you get the overall point.

    Theo and Co. have been unwilling to part with both Ellsbury and Lester from the beginning and you’d have to believe that Smith will up the ante now that Santana’s market value has risen again.

    I think the odds of Santana ending up in Beantown this offseason just got longer.

  62. RonH December 15th, 2007 at 6:57 am

    Not sure anyone posted this, A-Rod is to be on 60 Minutes and will discuss the Mitchell report

    http://www.newsday.com/sports/.....1368.story

  63. Suzyn Waldman December 15th, 2007 at 6:58 am

    WELL, OF ALL THE DRAMATIC!!!!!!! I\’VE BEEN IN RAWJAH FOR TWELVE HOURS AND I HAVE SEEN IT ALL!!!! THESE TEARS ARE FOR CELLULAR PHONE COVERAGE IN THE GREATER HOUSTON AREA!!! I\’M ENTERING DRAYTON MCLAYNE\’S BOX!!! FREE ORANGE JUICE!!!! OH MY, OF ALL THE DRAMATIC, OH MY, RAWJAH JUST SNEEZED ME OUT ONTO SOME GLASS!!!!! OH MY, OF ALL THE DRAMATIC, WINDEX!!!! I\’LL BE BACK!!!! NASA IS MY HERO!!! GO INTERNETS!!!!! TOODLES – RAWJAHLUVAH420

  64. Juke Early December 15th, 2007 at 7:09 am

    If you read any Minn. papers/news, B Smith will make his bones off his handling of the Santana situation. AND like everybody else in MLB, being a Yankee Killer, gets them all puffed up.

    Cash needs to get truly creative, persuasive & assertive. He could pry Kazimir out of TB. Yankees need a LHSP in the midst of all those righties. Not to mention, who knows what Pettitte will be doing on or off the field in 2K8.

  65. Kj December 15th, 2007 at 7:47 am

    Newsday has a story out today saying people close to the Rocket say he will pitch in 08. Now I dont see it happening but say he did pitch how much do you think he would make?

  66. E-ROC December 15th, 2007 at 7:49 am

    At least the Yanks have SOME ”interest” in Mark Prior.

    http://www.nj.com/sports/ledge.....038;coll=1

  67. gargoyle December 15th, 2007 at 8:04 am

    7 years $140 mil for Santana? No thanks.

  68. Yankee Trader December 15th, 2007 at 8:06 am

    I disagree with anyone who claims the A’s got the better of the deal. They got one player, Carlos Gonzalez, an outfielder who at 22 “might” be ready to jump to the majors. None of those pitchers are ready, and even if they are some of the Diamondbacks highest rated pitchers, if they were in the Yankee system, they would be no higher than A or AA ball right now. Dana Eveland, a southpaw has been rocked in his short stints with the Brewers and Diamonbacks. Why didn’t Beane ask for a major league ready pitcher off their squad, like Dustin Nippert or Micah Owings, especially since they gave them Danny Haren???

    Jose Valverde was a steal for the Astros, with the return of a decent Qualls and the rest were fringe players. Did the Yankees know Valvarde was on the market??

    If the Yankees need to unload some salary, and Matsui is the only one they might deal to unload enough salary, where would you see him giving up his NTC to be traded to, and for what?

    Therefore with regards to Santana, based on the Haren trade, giving up Hughes plus Cabrera, two major league ready players, plus having to sign Santana to a whopping long term deal, would be a bad decision on the Yankees part. The best scenario is for Santana to hit FA, when large Yankee contracts come off the books, and sign him. Of course if he wins the Cy Young, he’ll get more money, but that’s a gamble worth taking, rather than giving up your starting CF’er and a 21 yo pitcher, who is already a major league starter in Hughes!!

    Mark Prior would be worth a look.

    Rich Hardin could be a steal if the asking price is right.

    Joe Nathan would be terrific, but he will be a FA looking for closer money, and we have a closer paid 15M/year.

    Houston Street is overated.

    Our bullpen has a lot of ifs. Which Yankee bullpen pitcher do you want in the seventh inning with one out and the bases loaded?? I can’t think of any!!

  69. Victor the Predictor December 15th, 2007 at 8:32 am

    Trader :

    Watch and see in spring training. There’s 4 bullpen spots open for competition and it will shake out from within the organization. The Yankees lack only a lefthander in the bullpen and Cashman WILL get one sooner rather than later.

  70. Jennifer - Save Phil Hughes! December 15th, 2007 at 8:33 am

    I am so angry right now, I woke up at 8am listening to espn radio. The moron on the station was going thru the 2000 ws and saying both cheaters Andy Pettitte and Roger Clemens pitched in those games, went on to basically say the Mets probably would have won since we don’t know what Roger and ANdy would have had left at that point. Did the moron even read any of the report? Or did he just read the headlines in the papers and run with it? Andy wasn’t accused in 2000. He supposedly used in to rehab an injury. I tried to call in of course the line was busy. But I shut off that station in dugust, I dont know if anyone called up to correct him.

    I will sit down later to write an email to that moron. And I wish I knew a way to get in touch with ANdy and his people so he can sue for slander.

  71. Paul December 15th, 2007 at 8:57 am

    Pete — I respectfully disagree with your surmise that the price for Santana just went up. Perhaps that is what is in Minnesota’s mind, but they don’t control the situation. The clock is ticking against them (not the case with Oakland and Haren), the bid side is below what they “need”, and Santana can veto any trade. For the acquiring team, they have to pay out big bucks now to keep Santana. I think that Smith will be pushed down towards a comparable for the draft choices he’d get plus the value of a one year rental, and that will go down every week once the season starts. Hughes and Kennedy were recent high draft choices, true, but they have panned out — comparing one of them to two draft choices is like comparing a jackpot to a ticket for tomorrow’s lottery — and trading either one for a rental is way overpaying. Smith tried bluffing during the GM meetings, and his bluff was exposed. Now he’s going to be embarassed no matter what.

    I don’t know how Arizona’s prospects stack up against ours, but what they gave us for Randy Johnson was definitely overhyped. Viz was really a seventh-inning guy at best, no control and one inning maximum, Ohlendorf may make a useful reliever but he’s a long way from Jeff Nelson, Gonzalez and Jackson have yet to show they are major league material.

    Keep up your great blog. It’s a must read for anyone who wants to know what’s really happening. Happy holidays.

  72. Phil December 15th, 2007 at 9:12 am

    Andy’s not going to sue anyone for slander. To do that would put him even more in the spotlight and that it not the type of publicity he wants.

    I, too, hate when they lump him in as a steroid user when he allegedly just used HGH during his rehab in a year when it wasn’t illegal.

  73. Jennifer - Save Phil Hughes! December 15th, 2007 at 9:15 am

    It makes me even more angry because you have all these people on the radio talking as if they are speaking the truth and what they are saying doesn’t match what was said in the report.

    And I was thinking about how suspious it looks that you have mostly east coast players, the Jays, NY teams, and Baltimore, but the team in the middle Bostson, was left off the report, save for a fringe guy. You can’t tell me that he didn’t purposely leave big name soxs off the list.

  74. UtilityMan December 15th, 2007 at 9:18 am

    Jennifer
    Is that Warner Wolf yer talking about???

  75. Jennifer - Save Phil Hughes! December 15th, 2007 at 9:21 am

    I think so.

  76. UtilityMan December 15th, 2007 at 9:22 am

    Where was Matt Lawtons name on that list.He admitted his use of steroids while he was with the Yankees in 2005.
    How about Jamal Strong while he was with Seattle,he finished 2007 in the minors with the Yankees.
    Why was Mcgwire left off???
    G.Mota was suspended for 50 games!!Where is his name??

  77. UtilityMan December 15th, 2007 at 9:24 am

    Steve Sommers last night on WFAN around 11ish had his usual opening monologue of lightly bashing Clemens and Andy.

    That list has no cred at all in my opinion.
    Did anyone hear the interview Justice did with Michael Kay yesterday????

  78. Juke Early December 15th, 2007 at 9:35 am

    No Justice NO piece

  79. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 9:36 am

    What a win-win situation.

    Either A) Boston gets the best pitcher in baseball or B) Hanky implodes and over pays for Santana.

  80. E-ROC December 15th, 2007 at 9:38 am

    David Justice sure did defended himself on ESPN last night.

  81. randy l. December 15th, 2007 at 9:42 am

    “G.Mota was suspended for 50 games!!Where is his name??”
    you have to ask what the objective of the mitchell report was with so many obvious names missing. it surely couldn’t have been meant to be a comprehensive overview of peds in mlb. so what what the point of it from the owners view (it is a report from the owners)?

    i think it was simply a power play to let all players know that any one of them could be next. the response of the players, if this was the purpose of the mitchell report, should be a right back at you lawsuit against the owners.

    about every ten years the owners pay out hundreds of millions of dollars in collusion settlements with the players, so this wouldn’t be any different.
    the mitchell report is really just another form of collusion against the players in the continuing battle of owners vs. players.

  82. east side yankee December 15th, 2007 at 9:47 am

    In the trade for Dan Haren, Billy Beane may have got quantity but anyone who thinks he got quality is mistaken.

    The centerpiece of the trade just finished up AA Ball and while he had a good year (he is considered a top 25 prospect) he is not Jay Bruce. The other guys the As got back are noway near to contributing to a major league team anytime soon. The pitchers had ok seasons in A ball. I would rank Dan McCutcheon higher than the minor league pitchers the As got.

    Some people argued that Beane would get more since Haren had a reasonable contract…they were clearly wrong. As someone already mentioned Beane wasn’t able to get a major league ready pitcher…He couldn’t even get Owens…

    Diamondbacks got a great pitcher and only gave up one concensus top 50 prospect.

    The Tigers must be suffering from buyers remorse…they gave up 2 top 30 prospects and another 4 good-decent prospects for the excellent Miguel Cabrera and the soon to be wrecked Dontrelle Willis.

  83. pat December 15th, 2007 at 9:53 am

    Congress should include Jose Canseco in the MLB hearings that have been pushed back to January.
    Subpeona him, put him under oath, and tell him to spill all he knows.
    I personally don’t believe he has anything on A-Rod or any other player pertaining to PED use that he has not already shared. If he did, it would have been in Juiced because it’s not like he had a 2 book deal.
    He’s having a hard time getting a publisher now even after the success of the first book. But by some chance he does know something, make him lay it out there with perjury risks attached.

  84. Joe from Long Island December 15th, 2007 at 9:54 am

    Finally, a chance to talk about baseball instead of the Salem witch hunt!

    The Twins are in a tough spot, as mentioned by several others above. If the A’s got all that for Haren, it kind of forces Bill Smith to raise his price for Santana. (Either that or look like a fool.) If Hughes and Melky weren’t enough two weeks ago, they sure aren’t now. Add that to the premium to actually sign Santana to an extension – Like Cash and Hank said, they don’t want to pay through the nose twice.

    Bobby Abreu’s comments are interesting. I’m sure that Cash and Hank are aware of this also, through their backchannels.

    From what I’ve seen of Hank, he seems less taken by big names than his father. If that’s truly the case, he may figure why pay twice, in talent AND a big contract, when by waiting you can just pay the money and SAVE the inexpensive talent.

    In a way, I hope that the Twins have a good season, and are in the playoff hunt. It will make it that much harder for them to deal Santana at the deadline. And then he comes to NY for 2009, at the ripe old age of 30.

  85. ThatWasMe December 15th, 2007 at 9:57 am

    gunther toody

    NYPD113th
    December 15th, 2007 at 9:36 am
    What a win-win situation.

    Either A) Boston gets the best pitcher in baseball or B) Hanky implodes and over pays for Santana.

    Count your blessings they didn’t get Big Sloppi in the last sweep. Only a matter of time.

  86. pat December 15th, 2007 at 9:58 am

    TJ Beam signed a deal with the Pirates.

    Pittsburg seems to be the Yankees AAAA farm club. Lots of Yankee cast offs seem to land there.

  87. ThatWasMe December 15th, 2007 at 9:59 am

    gunther toody-car 54
    Another win like getting Gagne? Take your crystal ball out to be calibrated.

  88. Therston December 15th, 2007 at 10:01 am

    Big problem I have with your comparison of prospects is the Arizona playersd have not accomplished nearly as much as the Players the Yankees have in the deal…The top pitching prospect in this trade Brett Anderson had a good year in Low A but did NOT put up good numbers in High A…Gonzalez while Highly rated had an unimpressive season this year and is still in AAA. Those are the best guys so how do they comapre to the number 1 pitching prospect and prospect according to Scouts.com who did well in his first season in the majors while being even more impressive in September and October at a younger age than either of the above? Kennedy moved through High A, AA,AAA and the Majors while performing very well at all 4 levels…and Melky is a proven major league player who was hitting over .300 and playing solid defense before running out of gas in september.
    This is why you cannot just put numbers on prospects and say 4 of the top 8 prospects and compare that to the Yankees top prospects because the individual players have accomplished more and higher levels.
    IF anything I could see Cashman saying this is proof WHY we shouldnt have to give up all those guys and we can offer a similar deal to what Arizona gave with prospects with similar skill sets and similar imor league accomplishments and still get this deal done without Phil Hughes. The Age factor here is very important…While Gonzalez was number 3 on scouts.com at age 22 and Tabata is 14th at 19 years old the talent levels and accomplishments make them offer similar value…IMO.

  89. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 10:01 am

    “Count your blessings they didn’t get Big Sloppi in the last sweep. Only a matter of time.”

    Really? So you are counting on suspensions from these findings?

  90. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 10:02 am

    “gunther toody-car 54
    Another win like getting Gagne? Take your crystal ball out to be calibrated.”

    – LMAO. Showin your baseball knowledge if you are comparing Gagne and Johan. I think a more appropriate comparison is us landing Beckett.

  91. ThatWasMe December 15th, 2007 at 10:06 am

    gunther toody- car 54
    Over pay?

    You mean like Bronson Arroyo for W. M. Pena?
    Cla Meredith and Josh Bard for Doug Mirabelli?
    Freddy Sanchez for Jeff Suppan?

  92. ThatWasMe December 15th, 2007 at 10:07 am

    Hows Grabbard doing these in Texas days Gunther Toody?

  93. ThatWasMe December 15th, 2007 at 10:10 am

    Gunther Toody car 54

    Yeah the Sox are real sheep traders.
    Recent history over-paying in ever trade.

  94. ThatWasMe December 15th, 2007 at 10:13 am

    Ellsberry and 29 laptops a starting point for Santana.
    Then the cheapskates will try to sell him on the beauty of playing in Boston for 13. mil. per season, the whole thing will fall apart.
    Maybe they can Mitchell involved to mediate Santana’s salary negotiations. LOL

  95. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 10:16 am

    “You mean like Bronson Arroyo for W. M. Pena?
    Cla Meredith and Josh Bard for Doug M
    Hows Grabbard doing these in Texas days Gunther Toody?irabelli?”

    -You mean Bronson Arroyo? The guy whom was 9-15 with a 4.23 era and a WHIP of 1.40??!!!!!!!

    - You mean Clay Meredith who had an era of 3.50 and a WHIP of 1.39 as a 7th inning guy?

    - Or maybe you mean Kason Gabbard, the guy whom had an era of 5.58 and a WHIP of 1.56 with Texas?!

    Again, you really are showing your baseball smarts. You put Bronson Arroyo, Cla Meredith, and Kason Gabbard in the same discussion as Johan Santana.

  96. ThatWasMe December 15th, 2007 at 10:16 am

    Gunther Toody car 54
    If you think there will not be more names in time when they bust some of these reputed steroid labs around the USA, you’re living in a dream world.
    Big Sloppi released outright by Minn. now he’s a star, and all it took was some Red Sox love and a stint in half-stadium. Yeah, ok.

  97. ThatWasMe December 15th, 2007 at 10:17 am

    Gunther

    How did W. M. Pena work out in a trade for a starting pitcher? Boston could have gotten much more as Arroyo’s value was much higher than Pena at the time.

  98. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 10:18 am

    “Gunther Toody car 54
    If you think there will not be more names in time when they bust some of these reputed steroid labs around the USA, you’re living in a dream world.
    Big Sloppi released outright by Minn. now he’s a star, and all it took was some Red Sox love and a stint in half-stadium. Yeah, ok.”

    - Ummm, ok, but even if he were, what will be done. PEDitte isn’t going to be suspended, neither is anyone else. What would Papi’s or Marioano’s outing do?

  99. LathamJoe December 15th, 2007 at 10:18 am

    The timing would be perfect for Santana to join the NYY. The current roster has most of its key players in the 33-35 year old range, its catcher (37) and closer (38) even older.
    3/5s of the starting rotation has less than 16 MLB starts.
    That said, I agree that Cashman can’t give up both Hughes AND IPK with 2 other prospects.

    If I’m Bill Smith, I keep Santana and make a run at the AL Central until July, then explore trades or give Santana (depending on his 2008 performance up to A.S. break) his due.

    It gives the Twins time to further evaluate Hughes or IPK and Ellsbury or Lester during their 2008 MLB performance and attract other trading partners for Santana’s services.
    And there will be other interested parties even with Santana’s huge salary demands – unless he gets off to a miserable 2008 start, which is unlikely.

  100. ThatWasMe December 15th, 2007 at 10:19 am

    Gunther
    The Sox overpaid in all those trades. How did Gagne work out? Oh he’s gone I forgot. What would Grabbard be worth today? Maybe a Minn. chip for Santana.

  101. ThatWasMe December 15th, 2007 at 10:20 am

    How’s Josh Bard doing? Is Mirabelli still on the team?

  102. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 10:20 am

    “How did W. M. Pena work out in a trade for a starting pitcher? ”

    Lousy.

    We only won 1 World Series instead of 2 since his departure.

  103. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 10:21 am

    “Gunther
    The Sox overpaid in all those trades. How did Gagne work out? Oh he’s gone I forgot. What would Grabbard be worth today? Maybe a Minn. chip for Santana.”

    Again, look at his minor league stats and his major league stats and tell me how big of a chip he would be?

  104. ThatWasMe December 15th, 2007 at 10:22 am

    Gunther

    Yeah Mariano at 185 lbs looks suspect. He was never a flop like Big Sloppi was in Minn was though. How’s Lowe doing?

  105. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 10:23 am

    “How’s Josh Bard doing? Is Mirabelli still on the team?”

    He’s doin OK.

    Mirabelli was brought back as a personal catcher and Wake won 17 games.

    Do you think having Bard instead of Mirabelli would’ve resulted in playoffs for Boston in 2006? I don’t.

  106. ThatWasMe December 15th, 2007 at 10:24 am

    Gunther
    Grabbard would be in a real big chip for Santana in a package with Lester, and Coco. For sure. That’s laughable.

  107. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 10:24 am

    “Yeah Mariano at 185 lbs looks suspect. He was never a flop like Big Sloppi was in Minn was though. ”

    Look at many of the guys who’ve been suspended for ‘roid use, they aren’t huge.

    Again, please do a little research before you post such dreck.

  108. ThatWasMe December 15th, 2007 at 10:26 am

    How’d Wake do this year with his personal trainer Dougie boy? Boy wouldn’t be nice having bard on the roster now? But he’s gone.

  109. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 10:26 am

    “Grabbard would be in a real big chip for Santana in a package”

    PLLLEEEEAAAASSSSEEEEE explain this.

    His minor league stats were very pedestrian just as his major league stats are.

    If you had any real baseball knowledge, you would know that Lowrie, Masterson, Kalish, and even Bowden are all bigger chips than Gabbard.

  110. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 10:27 am

    “How’d Wake do this year with his personal trainer Dougie boy?”

    -He won 17 games. Bard tried to catch him and was very unsuccessful.

  111. ThatWasMe December 15th, 2007 at 10:28 am

    Gunther toody

    See any early pictures or baseball cards of your boy David Arias when he was young before HGH?
    Looks much different, much smaller except for the big bucket head.

  112. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 10:30 am

    http://bostondirtdogs.boston.c....._in_1.html

  113. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 10:30 am

    Why are you dodging my question Corky?

    Please explain to me why Kason Gabbard is a big prospect.

  114. ThatWasMe December 15th, 2007 at 10:31 am

    Gunther Toody

    My mistake he was 17-12, I like Wakefield, won’t knock him, but Boston has a habit for overpaying, which you can’t deny. Although you’re very defensive about.

  115. ThatWasMe December 15th, 2007 at 10:34 am

    Gunther Toody

    I said Grabbard was a possible trading chip, if you had hung onto him but instead wasted on Gagne who is gone. It is the truth. You could have packaged him with those other two lemons Crisp and Lester. What a great package.

  116. ThatWasMe December 15th, 2007 at 10:36 am

    Gunther

    Take a look at bucket head David Arias as a rookie. Hmmmmm something smells here.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/1997-Ultra.....dZViewItem

  117. Roger Clemens December 15th, 2007 at 10:38 am

    hmmm.. we are back in the johan sweepstakes..

    fantastic..
    giving up the farm!

  118. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 10:38 am

    ” but Boston has a habit for overpaying, which you can’t deny. Although you’re very defensive about.”

    No, we haven’t.

    I just gave you the numbers for Meredith, Gabbard, and Arroyo since they’ve left, the are lousy.

    How about the Varitek + Lowe for Heathcliff Slocumb trade?

    How about Lowell and Beckett for Ramirez and Sanchez trade?

    How about the Schilling for Lyon, De la Rosa, Fossum, and Goss trade?

    How about the Dave Roberts for Henri Staley trade?

  119. Bill Porter December 15th, 2007 at 10:38 am

    Haren is relatively cheap and tied up for a couple of years. A Santana trade would be about getting him for one year and a window to negotiate an enormous extension (7 yr $20 million per). Mn is going to have to come to grips with the notion that they may not get a “Haren” package for Santana.

    If I were the Twinkees I’d hold him till the season starts and make a run with Liriano or look to move him as teams get desperate as July 31 approaches. If he leaves as a FA they know the Yankees will be in it hard next year with the Sawx, the Angels, Detroit The Mets and maybe Detroit. They’d get a #1 from any any of those teams and the supplemental pick. There’s just too much explaining they’d have to do if they move him right now to both fans and angry tax payers unless they can get a kings ransom which I don’t think is coming. If they get a huge package fine do it. I think there may be too much going against it however to make that happen

  120. ThatWasMe December 15th, 2007 at 10:38 am

    Gunther Toody
    David Arias a rookie in 1997 sure got big didn’t he?

  121. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 10:39 am

    Please exaplin why Gabbard is a big prospect.

  122. ThatWasMe December 15th, 2007 at 10:41 am

    Gunther Toody

    You see the David Arias rookie card? Click on it for full size. What a trim guy, looks different from ten years ago, kind of like Jason Giambi’s rookie card or Barry Bonds.
    What a transformation, must be the chowda.

  123. LathamJoe December 15th, 2007 at 10:41 am

    “You mean Bronson Arroyo? The guy whom was 9-15 with a 4.23 era and a WHIP of 1.40??!!!!!!!”

    Yeah, NYPD113, that pales in comparision to Dice K who put up such “glorious” numbers: 15-13, with a 4.40 ERA and 1.32 WHIP with a Team that won 96 games!

    BTW, any good specials at Dunkin Donuts today?

  124. Steve December 15th, 2007 at 10:43 am

    Look anybody who things Kason Gabbard was a trade chip is a joke. Gabbarad and Murphy were nobodies and still are nobodies. If Minnesota was willing to consider Gabbard as a chip in any Santana trade then the Yankees are in worse shape than we can imagine. Because that would mean that every team baseball believes the Red Sox prospect crap actually is any good. The Yankees are already in enough trouble when the Twins actually think Lester is an equal to Hughes and Crisp in an equal to Melky.

  125. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 10:43 am

    Please explain why Gabbard is a big prospect.

  126. ThatWasMe December 15th, 2007 at 10:43 am

    Gunther Toody
    All the trades you mention from the previous ownership group. This group is inept.
    103 mil for a pitcher who can’t pitch on the road or get past the 5th inning.
    This group, 143 mil the most ever spent to buy the WS.

  127. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 10:45 am

    “Yeah, NYPD113, that pales in comparision to Dice K who put up such “glorious” numbers: 15-13, with a 4.40 ERA and 1.32 WHIP with a Team that won 96 games!”

    Makes no sense.

    Hindsight is always 20/20.

    He was saying how bad of a trade the Arroyo for WMP trade was. My argument is that both of these players were disappointments.

  128. ThatWasMe December 15th, 2007 at 10:45 am

    Gunther Toody
    You have a comprehension problem, not good for a cop, probably why you got let go.
    I said Grabbard would be a good trading chip if still board.
    Your take on Big Sloppi’s rookie card?

  129. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 10:46 am

    “This group, 143 mil the most ever spent to buy the WS.”

    I’d rather have the team with the highest payroll to win the WS thean the SEVEN largest payrolls ever to LOSE the World Series.

  130. ThatWasMe December 15th, 2007 at 10:46 am

    Gunther toddy

    103 mil for a fat toad. Yeah we know he’ll be better next season.

  131. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 10:47 am

    “I said Grabbard would be a good trading chip if still board.”

    And I asked you why. Why would he be a good trading chip? His numbers stink and he’s never been projected any more than a back of the rotation journeyman.

    What makes this so appealing to Minny.

    Please expalin.

  132. ThatWasMe December 15th, 2007 at 10:49 am

    Gunther

    I guess 2 in 90 years is a decent record Even is the last was the most expensive of all time.

  133. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 10:50 am

    “I said Grabbard would be a good trading chip if still board.”

    And I asked you why? Why would he be a good trading chip? His numbers stink and he’s never been projected any more than a back of the rotation journeyman.

    What makes this so appealing to Minny.

    Please expalin.

  134. ThatWasMe December 15th, 2007 at 10:51 am

    Gunther
    Simple, look at the trash they’re being offered now Coco and Lester. Leaky Pete Gammons could throw in a 5th round high schooler with Grabbard to get the trade done.

  135. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 10:52 am

    “I said Grabbard would be a good trading chip if still board.”

    And I asked you why? Why would he be a good trading chip? His numbers stink and he’s never been projected any more than a back of the rotation journeyman.

    What makes this so appealing to Minny.

    Please explain.

  136. ThatWasMe December 15th, 2007 at 10:52 am

    Gunther
    Did you look at David Arias? Suspect? Got awful big.

  137. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 10:53 am

    Did you look at David Arias? Suspect? Got awful big.

    –Not really, about the same. No bigger than Jeter got since his rookie year, or Arod.

    So about gabbard being a big prospect, please enlighten me.

  138. Giuseppe Franco December 15th, 2007 at 10:54 am

    Why do you people continue to engage with this NTPD moron?

    Ignore him and let him choke on his own vomit. He’s here to get a rise out of Yankee fans and nothing more.

  139. Roger Clemens December 15th, 2007 at 10:55 am

    why is everyone talking about gabbard?

    lets talk about me taking roids.

  140. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 10:57 am

    “Why do you people continue to engage with this NTPD moron?

    Ignore him and let him choke on his own vomit. He’s here to get a rise out of Yankee fans and nothing more.”

    SSHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

    I’m lovin this.

    So ThaWasMe………..tell me why Gabbard is a big prospect?

  141. ThatWasMe December 15th, 2007 at 10:57 am

    Giuseppe,
    I agree. Just wanted to expose him for the nitwit that he is. I did,I’m done.
    So Long Gunther.

  142. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 10:59 am

    “Giuseppe,
    I agree. Just wanted to expose him for the nitwit that he is. I did,I’m done.
    So Long Gunther.”

    LMAO!!!!

    Yankee fans, please go back and look at the genius from one of your own….Mr. ThatWas Me!

    So I guess you’ll just dodge my question and admit you were wrong.

  143. ThatWasMe December 15th, 2007 at 10:59 am

    David Arias/Ortiz rookie card 1997
    click photo to enlarge, what a joke.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/1997-Ultra.....dZViewItem

  144. Save Hideki Matsui December 15th, 2007 at 11:01 am

    Do not trade Matsui! This is the guy who took out a newspaper ad to APOLOGIZE to the fans when he hurt his wrist.

    He has as much class, respect, and dignity than anyone else in MLB and he WANTS to be a Yankee.

    Give him the benefit of the doubt that he is still a solid hitter when healthy. It’s not like he’s on the books for 5 seasons.

    The Yankees are a very popular team around the world and certainly in Japan. Trading Matsui could be the first step in giving up some of that ‘international market share’. Whether you like it or not, Matsui is bigger than just ‘one more player’.

  145. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 11:02 am

    http://www.homeruncards.com/ro.....card.shtml

  146. ET90210 December 15th, 2007 at 11:03 am

    Post about Yanks regarding Sanatana/Prior. I kinda like the Prior idea for 1-year! Then we could sign Johan as a FA next offseason! ha

    http://mlbfleecefactor.com/200.....-in-prior/

  147. pat December 15th, 2007 at 11:12 am

    Okay, I have 10 minutes to kill so I’ll play along…

    Jeter was 18 years old in the picture on his rookie card, Papi was 22 in the picture on his rookie card.

  148. GreenBeret7 December 15th, 2007 at 11:14 am

    ThatWasMe
    December 15th, 2007 at 9:57 am
    gunther toody

    NYPD113th
    December 15th, 2007 at 9:36 am
    What a win-win situation.

    Either A) Boston gets the best pitcher in baseball or B) Hanky implodes and over pays for Santana.

    Count your blessings they didn’t get Big Sloppi in the last sweep. Only a matter of time.

    _____________________________________________________
    This idiot is more of The Barney Fife Of Manhattan. A glorified jailer. The desk sergeant allows him to take out his bullet once a month to shine it up for parades.

  149. On D Ball December 15th, 2007 at 11:14 am

    An interesting article:

    http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.....050/SPORTS

    and my comment:

    Once again Chosenberg has written a good column.

    In fact if you take together the two key points made, namely the obvious conflict of interest in choosing the lying SOB Mitchell and that this is the tip of the iceberg, you come to the conclusion that Selig should be fired or jailed or both.

    Hiring an obvious partisan for a so-called impartial investigation almost guaranteed that nothing new would turn up and it didn’t.

    The charging of $20 million for what a couple of reporters could do in a few days proves that this was a bribe for a cover up.

    By not consulting the union, Selig guaranteed to infuriate the union and the players making it harder to get anything accomplished afterwards, while having someone to blame.

  150. randy l. December 15th, 2007 at 11:17 am

    nypd113-

    “Amid the furor over steroid use by superstar athletes like baseball’s Jose Canseco and Jason Giambi, another story is quietly unfolding in small towns and big cities across America — cops on steroids.”

    http://abcnews.go.com/Health/U.....038;page=1

    since you were an insider as a cop, what’s your position on rampant steroid use among cops?

  151. The Bronx is Burnt December 15th, 2007 at 11:21 am

    Varitek baffled

    http://www.bostonherald.com/sp.....id=1050929

  152. LathamJoe December 15th, 2007 at 11:23 am

    NYPD113

    “Hindsight is 20/20″ has nothing to do with my response to you.

    You chose to minimize Bronson Arroyo’s acomplishments saying that he was a “disappointment”. In 2006 Arroyo won 14 games with a medicore Reds Team, put up a solid 3.29 ERA and 1.18 WHIP.
    His 2007 ERA of 4.23 is well below the League Average ERA of 4.66. How is this a “disappointment”? I guess the BoSox couldn’t have used him in their starting rotation, huh?
    All for Wily Mo Pena, who had 2 miserable seasons in the AL and finally was unloaded to the Nationals for some B-level prospect!

    Not a bad trade for Boston? What are you smokin???

  153. Grant December 15th, 2007 at 11:27 am

    The price is too high at this point, lets just keep the kids and go with what we got. Andy isn’t getting suspended on one person’s testimony (I hope).

  154. pat December 15th, 2007 at 11:30 am

    Andy is accused of using HGH in 2002 which is before MLB even had a policy on it. He’s not getting suspended.

  155. east side yankee December 15th, 2007 at 11:31 am

    why are people discussing Boston’s trade history on a Yankee blog !!!!

    Ignore Sox fans…do not respond to them…they will go away …and we can focus on Yankee business.

    Yankee fans actually believe this troll will agree with your arguments…LOL

  156. Thomas December 15th, 2007 at 11:39 am

    The difference is that Santana wants a monster contract. That brings down the price! Plus, I don’t think that giving a pitcher 7 years @ $20 million is the way to go. If he wants 4 or 5 years, that’s a different story. We have been burned before in these situations. Brown, Johnson, Vazques, Pavano, and others.

  157. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 11:42 am

    “The difference is that Santana wants a monster contract. That brings down the price! Plus, I don’t think that giving a pitcher 7 years @ $20 million is the way to go. If he wants 4 or 5 years, that’s a different story. We have been burned before in these situations. Brown, Johnson, Vazques, Pavano, and others.”

    –The question you have to ask yourself Thomas is….Are the possible accomplishments and success that Johan Santana can bring you in years 1-5 worth the possibility of disappointments for years 6 and 7?

    Also, the pitchers you name are no way near the level of a Johan Santana.

  158. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 11:43 am

    “since you were an insider as a cop, what’s your position on rampant steroid use among cops?”

    -Those that test positive for them should be suspended. Those in possession of them should be arrested.

  159. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 11:44 am

    “This idiot is more of The Barney Fife Of Manhattan. A glorified jailer. The desk sergeant allows him to take out his bullet once a month to shine it up for parades.”

    Ummmmm…….ok? lol

  160. LathamJoe December 15th, 2007 at 11:46 am

    “why are people discussing Boston’s trade history on a Yankee blog !!!!”

    Because I’m sick of: (a) repeating the same old Santana trade baloney and (b) discussing, ad nauseum, the foolishness of the Mitchell Report!

  161. randy l. December 15th, 2007 at 11:47 am

    -Those that test positive for them should be suspended. Those in possession of them should be arrested.” nypd113th-

    so how many of your fellow officers did you arrest for suspected steroid use?

  162. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 11:50 am

    “so how many of your fellow officers did you arrest for suspected steroid use?”

    – You cannot arrest someone for “suspected steroid use”.

  163. east side yankee December 15th, 2007 at 11:54 am

    Latham Joe

    http://www.minorleaguebaseball.....p50/y2008/

    here is something for you to talk about. MiLB released the top 50 prospects in baseball. There are 3 yankees on the list. They asked 20 scouts in order to compile the list.

    Lets discuss what Yankees are missing from the list…anything is better then getting baited by a Sox fan

  164. GreenBeret7 December 15th, 2007 at 11:57 am

    NYPD113th
    December 15th, 2007 at 11:44 am
    “This idiot is more of The Barney Fife Of Manhattan. A glorified jailer. The desk sergeant allows him to take out his bullet once a month to shine it up for parades.”

    Ummmmm…….ok? lol

    _____________________________________________________
    Prove that I’m wrong. According to George Mitchell, the only proof needed is an accusation.

  165. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 11:58 am

    “Prove that I’m wrong.”

    Prove waht wrong?

    I was laughing at your statement.

  166. Jennifer - Save Phil Hughes! December 15th, 2007 at 12:02 pm

    There’s a hold up in the Bronx,
    Brooklyn’s broken out in fights.
    There’s a traffic jam in Harlem
    That’s backed up to Jackson Heights.
    There’s a scout troup short a child,
    Kruschev’s due at Idlewild
    Car 54, Where Are You?

    (musical interlude)

    There’s a hold up in the Bronx,
    Brooklyn’s broken out in fights.
    There’s a traffic jam in Harlem
    That’s backed up to Jackson Heights.
    There’s a scout troup short a child,
    Kruschev’s due at Idlewild
    Car 54, Where Are You?

  167. GreenBeret7 December 15th, 2007 at 12:03 pm

    east side yankee
    December 15th, 2007 at 11:54 am
    Latham Joe

    http://www.minorleaguebaseball.....p50/y2008/

    here is something for you to talk about. MiLB released the top 50 prospects in baseball. There are 3 yankees on the list. They asked 20 scouts in order to compile the list.

    Lets discuss what Yankees are missing from the list…anything is better then getting baited by a Sox fan

    __________________________________________________
    Injuries would keep Tabata, Melancon,Sanchez and Betances off of that list. There could be two or three more when they start adding the signees like Sublett, Montero and Suttle to the lists. None have played above half season rookie ball.

  168. Jennifer - Save Phil Hughes! December 15th, 2007 at 12:04 pm

    I think we should only refer tp nypd as one of the characters from car 54.

  169. Drive 4-5 December 15th, 2007 at 12:05 pm

    NYPD113

    “– You cannot arrest someone for “suspected steroid use”.”

    No, but you try and convict them in the court of public opinion, which is what Senator McCarthy… ooops I mean Senator Mitchell’s report does.

  170. GreenBeret7 December 15th, 2007 at 12:07 pm

    Jennifer,call the station house and tell them we’ve found the child. Says his name is NYPD113th. No lasr name given, but, going on the assumption that it’s Idiot.

  171. Jennifer - Save Phil Hughes! December 15th, 2007 at 12:08 pm

    GreenBeret7 :lol:

    I used to love watching that show, it was on reruns of course. Is it on anywhere now?

  172. gianthinker December 15th, 2007 at 12:08 pm

    If they want more than we offered before then I dont want any part of a Santana deal. Honestly I feel like this deal opens it up more for the Mets who can offer 6 prospects to them.

  173. GreenBeret7 December 15th, 2007 at 12:08 pm

    I think the squad car they used in Car-54 is smarter than this clown.

  174. east side yankee December 15th, 2007 at 12:08 pm

    GreenBeret 7:

    I agree but I think that even with the wrist injury Tabata should be on the list. He more than held his own in a league known for pitching.

    Once again, I think Beane got nothing in exchange for Haren. It should help any team trying to trade for Santana

  175. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 12:09 pm

    “No, but you try and convict them in the court of public opinion, which is what Senator McCarthy… ooops I mean Senator Mitchell’s report does.”

    –OK, but that wasn’t the question that was asked.

    I just wonder how adamant you’d be about this report if it didn’t implicate so many of your teams’ players.

  176. stuart December 15th, 2007 at 12:10 pm

    No to Santana the cost in money and players will be way way to costly..

    NO NO NO

  177. bphill December 15th, 2007 at 12:10 pm

    yankees have a stacked farm system.

  178. GreenBeret7 December 15th, 2007 at 12:13 pm

    I’ve seen it a couple of time, Jennifer. I used to watch it when it was first broadcast. I’m guessing if TV-Land can acquire all of the kinescopes from CBS or whoever has them, it’ll show up, there. I’m going to do a quick search for it. Two of the characters ended up on the Munsters…Fred Gwynn (Herman/Francis Muldoon) and Al Lewis (Grandpa/not sure of the character name on Car-54).

  179. east side yankee December 15th, 2007 at 12:15 pm

    Gianthinker:

    If the Yankees can get away with offering a bunch of A ball prospects like the Diamondbacks gave to the As, they can easily come up with 6 players to give to the twins w/out having to give them Hughes, Jackson, or Chamberlain

  180. randy l. December 15th, 2007 at 12:15 pm

    “so how many of your fellow officers did you arrest for suspected steroid use?”
    – You cannot arrest someone for “suspected steroid use”.-nypd113th

    so how many investigations did you initiate on your fellow officers that you suspected of steroid use?

  181. Drive 4-5 December 15th, 2007 at 12:18 pm

    NYPD113

    Wanna hear implication?

    Associated Press Sports
    updated 9:03 p.m. ET, Thurs., Dec. 13, 2007

    BOSTON – The Boston Red Sox suspected relievers Brendan Donnelly and Eric Gagne of using performance-enhancing drugs but acquired them anyway, according to the Mitchell Report.
    Donnelly, an All-Star in 2003, was acquired in a trade from the Los Angeles Angels last offseason.

    “He was a juice guy but his velocity hasn’t changed a lot over the years … If he was a juice guy, he could be a breakdown candidate,” Zack Scott of the Red Sox baseball operations staff wrote of Donnelly in a Dec. 13, 2006, e-mail.

    Kyle Evans of the baseball operations staff responded: “I haven’t heard many good things about him, w(ith) significant steroid rumors.”

    Boston didn’t sign Gagne as a free agent, but they got the ’03 NL Cy Young-winner at the midsummer trading deadline.

    In a Nov. 1, 2006, e-mail to Red Sox scout Mark Delpiano, general manager Theo Epstein asked, “Have you done any digging on Gagne? I know the Dodgers think he was a steroid guy. Maybe so. What do you hear on his medical?”

    The scout responded, “Some digging on Gagne and steroids IS the issue. Has had a checkered medical past throughout career including minor leagues. … Mentality without the plus weapons and without steroid help probably creates a large risk in bounce back durability and ability to throw average while allowing the changeup to play as it once did.”

    So in other words, the Red Sox KNEW they were acquiring 2 cheaters, but went ahead and got them anyways. In any of the Yankees World Series are tainted,then so isnt the 2007 Red Roids.

  182. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 12:18 pm

    “so how many investigations did you initiate on your fellow officers that you suspected of steroid use?”

    Police officers take reports and whatnot, detectives “initiate investigations”. If you catch a person in possession of a controlled substance then you can arrest.

    My precinct was a total ghetto, almost no cops live within the confines. CO’s, yes.

  183. NYPD INTERNAL AFFAIRS December 15th, 2007 at 12:18 pm

    To: NYPD113th

    Report immediately to Starret City of a psych evaluation.

  184. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 12:21 pm

    “So in other words, the Red Sox KNEW they were acquiring 2 cheaters, but went ahead and got them anyways. In any of the Yankees World Series are tainted,then so isnt the 2007 Red Roids.”

    Actually it sounds like they acquired two guys that may have cheated.

    You seem to deem the Mitchell Report a total fraud because there’s only hearsay against guys on YOUR team.

    YET, you deem Donnelly and Gagne cheaters because of not even hearsay of use, but hearsay of concern.

    Funny how your opinion is molded by the uniform.

  185. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 12:21 pm

    Report immediately to Starret City of a psych evaluation.

    Lefrak is closer ;)

  186. GreenBeret7 December 15th, 2007 at 12:22 pm

    Al Lewis (Grandpa on the Munsters) played Officer Leo Schnauser on Car-54.

  187. randy l. December 15th, 2007 at 12:25 pm

    “so how many investigations did you initiate on your fellow officers that you suspected of steroid use?”
    Police officers take reports and whatnot, detectives “initiate investigations”nypd113th

    so how many reports on your fellow officers suspected of steroid use did you turn in to detectives?

  188. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 12:26 pm

    “so how many reports on your fellow officers suspected of steroid use did you turn in to detectives?”

    There is no report to be taken for “suspected steroid use”. You take a report if a crime has been committed.

  189. Drive 4-5 December 15th, 2007 at 12:28 pm

    If you were a real police officer you’d know that the evidence is circumstantial on just every player except the ones who’s names appeared on checks.

    Too bad Al Lewis passed on. Even a fellow fake cop,he knew more about the law than you.

    Rumor has it there’s a 2 for 1 doughnut sale at the virtual Dunkin Donuts over at Sons of Sam Horn. Please take your phony act over there?

  190. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 12:30 pm

    If you were a real police officer you’d know that the evidence is circumstantial on just every player except the ones who’s names appeared on checks.

    —Please tell me where I said the evidence was not “circumstantial”. Again, you are hearing what you want to hear.

  191. Jennifer - Save Phil Hughes! December 15th, 2007 at 12:30 pm

    Can he tell us where the 113th is?

  192. Santana 4 Santana December 15th, 2007 at 12:31 pm

    How about Matsui to the Angels for Ervin Santana then Santana, Hughes, and Cabrera to the Twins for Johann Santana? While Santana went 7-14 with a 5.76 ERA this year in 26 GS, he turns only 25 on January 10, struck out 126 in 150 IP, fell 2 IP shy of averaging 6 innings a start, and made only $425K this year. He also won 16 games the year before and 12 in his rookie season. If that isn’t good enough for Minnesota, see ya and good luck getting any two from Ellsbury, Bucholz, and Lester from Boston (they won’t get 2). Kiss getting anyone for Santana goodbye if he isn’t traded before pitchers and catchers report to camp (I can’t see him allowing a trade once s.t. begins).

    The Angels would get a veteran lefthanded DH who could play some LF if needed in Matsui who I can’t see balking at a move to a team that just won 94 games, will win their division again, and is closer to Japan. Their rotation would be Lackey/ Escobar/ (Jerid) Weaver/ Saunders/ Moseley assuming they don’t make a move with it and if they did, it would be even stronger. They could always re-sign Bartolo Colon who’d be a fool to leave a team that just won 94 games. That division outside of the Angels is a joke with Haren gone from the A’s. None of the teams after L.A. are finishing at or above .500 including Seattle who overachieved and got the last good year out of 36-37 year old Miguel Batista who I don’t see repeating or bettering his ’07. The Angels will win the A.L. West again next year thus will need a hitter (Matsui) more than a #4 starter (Santana) for the postseason. If they kept Colon, their A.L.D.S. rotation would be Lackey/ Escobar/ Weaver/ Colon
    (or the front three if they went with just them).

    The Twins rotation could be Silva re-signed/ Liriano/ Hughes/ Santana/ Baker, Slowey, or Bonzer. They get their new CF and leadoff hitter (Melky). They could always bring back Eric Milton who had a decent career with them and is a free agent.

  193. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 12:31 pm

    “Rumor has it there’s a 2 for 1 doughnut sale at the virtual Dunkin Donuts”

    WOW, a donut joke. How hurtful. LOL ;)

  194. randy l. December 15th, 2007 at 12:31 pm

    “There is no report to be taken for “suspected steroid use”. You take a report if a crime has been committed.”

    so when you suspected steroid use of a fellow officer because of all the obvious visual signs, what did you do?

  195. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 12:32 pm

    Can he tell us where the 113th is?

    – 167-02 Baisley Blvd located in BEAUTIFUL South Jamaica, Queens 11434

    In between Merrick Blvd and Guy R Brewer Blvd on the south side of the street

  196. Buddy Biancalana December 15th, 2007 at 12:32 pm

    Josh Hamilton is on the block, if Cabrera gets traded, he could be acquired to play CF.

  197. Drive 4-5 December 15th, 2007 at 12:33 pm

    Great question Jennifer!

    NYPD113, please respond.

  198. east side yankee December 15th, 2007 at 12:33 pm

    this whole sterois thing is so overblown

    Every team had people using PEDs. EVERY TEAM…Why is baseball being held to such a high standard…Football players cheat regulary and no one says boo…

    Everybody profited from the steroid era…players and teams made a ton of money…all the journalists on espn, newspapers, internet, radio make a ton of money and are on tv giving their “advice” to fans thanks to the steroid era…and most importantly fans got entertained…we all got exactly what we wanted.

    When are people going to wake up and realize that sports are another form of entertainment, like movies are …this sanctimonious garbage I keep hearing from journalists who have their livlihoods because of the steroid era that is ocurring in all sports is just too funny to take seriously.

    Yaankee fans if someone attacks our world series run of the mid to late 90s..u should just brush it off.

  199. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 12:33 pm

    “so when you suspected steroid use of a fellow officer because of all the obvious visual signs, what did you do?”

    “When” I suspected? Do I know you? How can you tell me what I did and did not suspect?

  200. Jennifer - Save Phil Hughes! December 15th, 2007 at 12:33 pm

    Thats easy to look up. I’ll have to think of another.

  201. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 12:34 pm

    Great question Jennifer!

    NYPD113, please respond.

    —167-02 Baisley Blvd located in BEAUTIFUL South Jamaica, Queens 11434

    In between Merrick Blvd and Guy R Brewer Blvd on the south side of the street

    Any other tests?? LMAO

  202. NYPD INTERNAL AFFAIRS December 15th, 2007 at 12:35 pm

    Where is Lefrak?

  203. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 12:36 pm

    “Thats easy to look up. I’ll have to think of another.”

    OK, do you want to know who my CO was? Or my XO? Or my ICO? Or my Admin Lt? Or my Special Ops Lt? Or my Platoon Commander? Or my Squad Sgt? Or my PBA delegates?

  204. Drive 4-5 December 15th, 2007 at 12:36 pm

    ok..so you’ve been to the jail at that particular precinct house.

    I’m sorry ,but all the evidence you’ve provided is circumstantial.In this court of public opinion, you’re still a fraud.

    Hmmm… sounds a lot like those named in the Mitchell Report now doesn’t it?

  205. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 12:37 pm

    “Where is Lefrak?”

    Lefrak is right off the LIE, it’s in Coroan. If you’re traveling west on the LIE it’s that big white building right after Lefrak City.

  206. Jennifer - Save Phil Hughes! December 15th, 2007 at 12:37 pm

    Okay I got one, Where is the nearest donut shop to 113th?

  207. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 12:38 pm

    “ok..so you’ve been to the jail at that particular precinct house.”

    OK, do you want to know who my CO was? Or my XO? Or my ICO? Or my Admin Lt? Or my Special Ops Lt? Or my Platoon Commander? Or my Squad Sgt? Or my PBA delegates?

  208. GreenBeret7 December 15th, 2007 at 12:40 pm

    I can’t believe that any self-respecting police captain would actually tell this idiot where the location was.

  209. Storm warning December 15th, 2007 at 12:40 pm

    where’s santana

  210. Buddy Biancalana December 15th, 2007 at 12:40 pm

    I grew up near Lefrak City, NYPD113 is legit. Engage him in baseball discussions, even if he was lying, who cares?

  211. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 12:41 pm

    ……..Or my shield # or my tax number? Actually, I’d rather not give out my whole tax number Jen, but you get the idea sweety.

  212. Buddy Biancalana December 15th, 2007 at 12:41 pm

    The location of the precinct is public knowledge, it’s not hidden.

  213. Jennifer - Save Phil Hughes! December 15th, 2007 at 12:42 pm

    Engage him in baseball discussions? All he does here is bash the Yankees, he’d be better off posting on sosh.

  214. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 12:42 pm

    “I can’t believe that any self-respecting police captain would actually tell this idiot where the location was.”

    what the hell does this even mean? What Captain tell me the Location of what? You realize there are cops from the rank of PO up to Inspector in the precinct, don’t you?

  215. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 12:43 pm

    “The location of the precinct is public knowledge, it’s not hidden.”

    -exactly buddy, by she asked, I answered. That’s why I offered up:

    my CO was? Or my XO? Or my ICO? Or my Admin Lt? Or my Special Ops Lt? Or my Platoon Commander? Or my Squad Sgt? Or my PBA delegates?

    –that IS NOT public

  216. east side yankee December 15th, 2007 at 12:46 pm

    LOL…we should be the laughing stock of every sports blog in the nation…who cares what precinct NYPD is from…the fact that he would use it in his name indicates that he wants more attention than he deserves.

    The Sox fan has suceeded in getting all the Yankee fans on this blog to pay attention to him…has he said anything about baseball worth commenting on folks? just ignore him

  217. GreenBeret7 December 15th, 2007 at 12:46 pm

    Why am I not surprised that you didn’t uderstand what was said. D-o y-o-u w-a-n-t m-e t-o t-y-p-e s-l-o-w-e-r?

    I stay away from cops. I’m afraid they’d all be as stupid as you are.

  218. GreenBeret7 December 15th, 2007 at 12:48 pm

    **understand**

  219. Drive 4-5 December 15th, 2007 at 12:48 pm

    eastside is right

    So, what does everyone think about the story that the Yanks might be getting involved in the Santana trade again?

  220. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 12:48 pm

    “I’m afraid they’d all be as stupid as you are.”

    Not exactly Shakespeare, but well said! LMAO

  221. Buddy Biancalana December 15th, 2007 at 12:49 pm

    When you get past NYPD113 childish statements, he does have some good baseball knowledge, he is just challenging you.

  222. east side yankee December 15th, 2007 at 12:51 pm

    Buddy:

    You think every Sox poster who comes to this board has very good baseball knowledge.

    I know I beieve the opposite…any fan with good baseball knowledge goes to their own teams blog to comment…they only comment on opposing teams blogs to start trouble..

  223. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 12:52 pm

    “When you get past NYPD113 childish statements, he does have some good baseball knowledge, he is just challenging you.”

    Actually buddy, if you look, I am usually the one who is the but of the childish comments and personal attacks. I try to make it a joke and not take it personal.

    Not my fault if folks take the bait and get frustrated at the fact they don’t get to me.

    I will take sports all day long. The problem is, many people see I’m a Sox fan and they make assumption of what my opinions are.

  224. Vince December 15th, 2007 at 12:53 pm

    Buddy :

    Josh Hamilton is legit and clean. How much NYC life would affect him is the only question. A 5-tool player.

  225. ET90210 December 15th, 2007 at 12:53 pm

    Clemens coming back in 08?

    http://mlbfleecefactor.com/200.....urn-in-08/

  226. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 12:53 pm

    “I know I beieve the opposite…any fan with good baseball knowledge goes to their own teams blog to comment…they only comment on opposing teams blogs to start trouble..”

    You see east side, I disagree.

    I do go to SOSH and post. However, i think you have better baseball discussions with people whom look at things from a different angle.

    It gets old when you talk to people whom pretty much share th same opinions as you, it gets quite monotenous.

  227. Drive 4-5 December 15th, 2007 at 12:55 pm

    It one thing to lurk at web blog of your arch rival. But I can’t even imagine being so obsessed that I’d spend as much time as NYPD113 does here, nevermind bait people as he does. It’s borderline obsessive/compulsive and in any case whacked.

  228. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 12:56 pm

    “It one thing to lurk at web blog of your arch rival. But I can’t even imagine being so obsessed that I’d spend as much time as NYPD113 does here, nevermind bait people as he does. It’s borderline obsessive/compulsive and in any case whacked.”

    I own a bar and there’s a lot of downtime. Plus, you folks sure do keep me entertained.

  229. east side yankee December 15th, 2007 at 12:57 pm

    Drive 4-5:

    My guess is Cashman already told Smith that when he gets a deal he likes to give the Yankees a call. We’ve got last refusal.

    I also think there is no deal if the Twins want Hughes…The Yankees are not going to give him up…at least thats what I think.

    I think the Haren trade actually helps teams wanting to trade for Santana

  230. Drive 4-5 December 15th, 2007 at 12:57 pm

    Have a good day everyone. It seems to be all bs and not much baseball being discussed. That means I can’t procrastinate any longer and gotta get some shopping done.lol

  231. Buddy Biancalana December 15th, 2007 at 12:58 pm

    east side-

    They are a couple of RS posters that are knowledgeable, ray is one in particular. The ones that post one sentence comments are just trolls or schmeefs (to quote someone from yesterday).

  232. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Save the Three Musketeers! December 15th, 2007 at 12:59 pm

    Good day all. I miss anything?

  233. Drive 4-5 December 15th, 2007 at 12:59 pm

    I agree east side.

    The Harren trade involved a lot of prospects, but little money. I think money, or saving money, is a very important element in the Santana deal.

    Darn, you’re gonna make me procrastinate more? lol

  234. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 1:00 pm

    “Orioles president Andy MacPhail said he has had a recent discussion with Erik Bedard’s agent, Mark Pieper, about the ace left-hander’s contract.

    It was reported that Bedard turned down an extension before the winter meetings. “It’s more of the same, nothing too different,” MacPhail said. Bedard remains a strong candidate to be traded.”

  235. randy l. December 15th, 2007 at 1:01 pm

    “When” I suspected? Do I know you? How can you tell me what I did and did not suspect?”-nypd113th

    according to this abc article, major police departments in america have steroid problems with their cops:

    http://abcnews.go.com/Health/U.....038;page=1

    since you were a member of one of those big departments, you must have come into contact with cops you suspected of steroid use.
    did you ever suspect any fellow cops of steroid use, and if you did what did you do about it?

  236. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 1:02 pm

    Can’t we all just get along? I promise to stop taunting if you promise to be open-minded. Deal?

  237. east side yankee December 15th, 2007 at 1:03 pm

    NYPD 112th or 113 or whatever :

    this will be my one and only response to you…you have not engaged anyone in an honest debate here. Every conclusion you have is the same…The Red Sox are better than the Yanks.

    You have said you are here to bait people…mention how we so entertain you…you are a TROLL.

    If a yankee fan did the same crap on Sons of Sam Horn he would be immediately kicked off

  238. Buddy Biancalana December 15th, 2007 at 1:03 pm

    Vince-

    Good point on Hamilton, I just don’t think I am convinced that Damon can be the CF for the Yanks at this point. SJ44 pointed out that he had a broken foot last off season & that he never really got into gameshape by the time ST started & the other injuries started piling up.

    I do think he will be highly motivated his Spring to prove everyone wrong about his skills being in decline.

  239. Drive 4-5 December 15th, 2007 at 1:04 pm

    east side,

    I feel like I’m stuttering, but once again I couldn’t agree with you more!

  240. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 1:05 pm

    NYPD 112th or 113 or whatever :

    113 PCT

    The 112 is Queens North.

  241. Boston Dave December 15th, 2007 at 1:06 pm

    Give Damon a chance. Why is it so hard to believe that players aren’t as good injured as they are healthy? Damon could have ‘Pavano’d’ the season but instead he played at less than 100% and his #s were worse.

  242. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 1:07 pm

    “this will be my one and only response to you…you have not engaged anyone in an honest debate here. Every conclusion you have is the same…The Red Sox are better than the Yanks.

    You have said you are here to bait people…mention how we so entertain you…you are a TROLL.”

    – I try to, but the second I disagree with the status quo, I am immediately attacked personally or called a “TROLL”.

    I laugh it off and say it entertains me INSTEAD of doing the same and reorting with a childish comment.

  243. Buddy Biancalana December 15th, 2007 at 1:07 pm

    Boston Dave-

    I think Damon will be excellent in Left, maybe not CF anymore.

  244. Drive 4-5 December 15th, 2007 at 1:09 pm

    hey east side,

    My wife and daughter are somewhere around 86th and 2nd Ave doing some shopping. Have them give me a call if you run into them ok? lol

  245. Boston Dave December 15th, 2007 at 1:10 pm

    Buddy – that is probably true…

    but in a pinch (if Melky is moved) I don’t think it’s a huge problem to keep Damon in center for one season (vs. trading prospects or giving out a huge contract). Seems like some here think Damon in center is a doomsday scenario.

  246. east side yankee December 15th, 2007 at 1:11 pm

    Buddy and Boston Dave:

    I think Damon is going to have a great year also.

  247. east side yankee December 15th, 2007 at 1:12 pm

    Drive 4-5

    I’ll be too loaded down with my own bags LOL

  248. Buddy Biancalana December 15th, 2007 at 1:14 pm

    Boston Dave-

    You think the Yanks can get Johan w/o Hughes at this point?

  249. E-ROC December 15th, 2007 at 1:14 pm

    Runners will run on Damon without blinking. His body might not hold up in center either. If they Yanks trade Matsui and get Johan, they should think strongly about signing Alexei Ramirez or trading for an outfielder like Josh Hamilton.

  250. Thrillington December 15th, 2007 at 1:15 pm

    NYPD113th-

    How did you come to be a Boston Red Sox fan living in NYC? Are you from Queens originally? Or did you move from Boston?

  251. east side yankee December 15th, 2007 at 1:16 pm

    Buddy:

    They may not be able to get him w/out offering Hughes but I am convinced that they will not put him in a trade package. that offer is gone. Cashman has covinced Hal & Hank to keep Hughes

  252. NYPD113th December 15th, 2007 at 1:18 pm

    “NYPD113th-

    How did you come to be a Boston Red Sox fan living in NYC? Are you from Queens originally? Or did you move from Boston?”

    My father is from Boston.

    I grew up on LI and went to college in NE.

  253. Buddy Biancalana December 15th, 2007 at 1:19 pm

    east side-

    That is my gut feeling as well, though if Hughes goes, we’ll find out for sure whether Cashman is really running the show.

  254. Buddy Biancalana December 15th, 2007 at 1:22 pm

    I have read Matsui will have to be moved before going for Johan, who else is interested beside the Giants, who may be passing at this point?

  255. Vince December 15th, 2007 at 1:26 pm

    Buddy :

    Damon has something to prove in ’08. He’s halfway through his contract, lives in Manhattan and loves the city. He should be going through the most rigorous offseason training of his career to make a statement about winning. Left field seems like his best option.

  256. east side yankee December 15th, 2007 at 1:30 pm

    Once the Giants signed Rowand to that ridiculous deal the only interested suitor in Matsui went away.

    Its probably for the best. We would have gotten some lousy lefthander (Lowrey) who would walk the whole ballpark and then Giambi or someone else would get injured and would be listening to reports of how dumb the Yanks were to trade a 25 hr/ 100 rbi guy.

    Remember all the crap the yankees making a mistake in trading Sheffield in May – June ?

  257. Buddy Biancalana December 15th, 2007 at 1:30 pm

    Ok, Matsui gets moved to clear payroll & the logjam of OF assuming Giambi DH most of the time. Then Melky could go to acquire Johan, if they still want him. Who plays CF, Cameron? Patterson? Hamilton?

  258. CB December 15th, 2007 at 1:31 pm

    E-Roc,

    If you’re the Orioles – what would you want for Bedard now that the A’s got so much for Haren?

    Bedard is a much better pitcher, though his shoulder always seems a concern.

    Would that Reds package of Homer Bailey, Votto and two lesser prospects be enough? I don’t know.

    Problem for the O’s – not many teams have a system as deep as the D’Backs.

    But Bedard when healthy is an absolute #1. Fantastic stuff. He’d be a terror in the NL after how silly he made AL East lineups looks this year.

    I don’t know if Bailey and Votto cut it. Not after the Marlins got Maybin/ Miller and the A’s got those 6 guys yesterday.

  259. J. V. - Yonkers December 15th, 2007 at 1:32 pm

    Cashman could spark some interest for Matsui by looking at Paul Konerko of the White Sox. They could put Joe Crede at 1st with Josh Fields now their 3rd baseman. Konerko is a good RH bat and good glove. Throw in Betemit and call it a deal.

  260. Buddy Biancalana December 15th, 2007 at 1:33 pm

    I live in SF, the Giants have nothing to lose at this point by signing Rowand, their team is so bad offensively it’s pathetic. They have no true closer either, Cain & Lincecum are going to have a tough time even being .500 pitches with their supporting cast.

  261. Buddy Biancalana December 15th, 2007 at 1:34 pm

    CB-

    The O’s want Jay Bruce in the Bedard deal & the Reds aren’t biting.

  262. Doreen December 15th, 2007 at 1:41 pm

    Buddy Biancalana –

    I read in the Star Ledger or the NYTimes this a.m. (sorry, too lazy to check which it was :) ) that San Diego might be interested, or might have a need for Matsui.

    Jennifer -

    Just read your post about ESPN radio this morning. I literally have tears in my eyes. Most people will not bother to read the report, though it is easily available, and actually, except for the length, not difficult to read at all. It was written in English, rather than legalese, so no excuse for people to misunderstand anything in there.

    There are a couple of players in there my heart really goes out to, Andy being one of them, and Brian Roberts and Jack Cust, and a few others. If Mitchell was truly interested in recommending MLB move on, no names needed to be included and it would have been easy to explain with two statements: (1) In view of my recommendation that MLB leave the past behind and concentrate on improving the future of baseball, I have chosen to withhold any names; (2) Because the report was in no way a comprehensive snapshot of all the players who are involved in steroids, I felt it was not in the interests of fair play to include any names. So, that would have covered his behind and guaranteed that MLB had no choice but to “move on.”

    I also just want to make a point that has been needling my brain. Mitchell keeps saying he was satisfied that the informers told the same story a couple of times to different people and that they were to tell the truth or be penalized. Well, if a person makes sure he gets his story down (true or NOT), and tells the same story (true or NOT), it doesn’t necessarily mean he told the truth the first, second, third, fourth or fifth times. Also, I have to wonder: sometimes when a party wants or expects a certain answer, if the real truth doesn’t fit what he’s looking for, he will probably accept the lie that he is looking for as the truth. (If that wasn’t too convoluted to understand – sorry for the ranting, but I’m really, really crazy about this whole thing.)

  263. CB December 15th, 2007 at 1:41 pm

    Buddy,

    I’ve read that about Bruce as well. Cincy is not even considering it from all reports. It also didn’t seem that Bruce was a deal killer for the O’s. Its hard to think you’ll get Bruce even for Bedard (though I would still insist on it – the O’s aren’t under pressure to move Bedard).

    I don’t think that O’s can hold up the deal because they have to get the top prospect in all of baseball. At the same time I don’t know if Bailey/ Votto are enough. Would the Reds trade Bailey/ Votto and Cueto?

  264. Sandman December 15th, 2007 at 1:47 pm

    When is Santana on he’s way?Wonder when they’ll do the conferance.

    “The LEGEND has come”

  265. Buddy Biancalana December 15th, 2007 at 1:50 pm

    CB-

    Since the O’s actually made a deal with Houston, I could see them trading Bedard for Hamilton, Bailey & Votto. Not a bad return for the O’s if Bailey pans out.

    Doreen-

    Matsui to the Padres, makes sense although after acquiring Edmonds, is there still interest? The Yankees would have to pay a decent chunk of Matsui’s contract. The object is to unload his contract to acquire Johan, unless they get pieces from the Pads to get Johan as well.

  266. Doreen December 15th, 2007 at 1:54 pm

    Buddy -

    You’re right. I forgot – I skimmed the story about Edmonds going to the Padres. It was two different articles. I guess they wouldn’t be too interested at this point.

  267. CB December 15th, 2007 at 1:57 pm

    I wouldn’t take a chance on Hamilton if I were the O’s. Not as one of the key players in the deal. One season would not be enough to convince me to take him as a primary asset. Maybe as an ancillary player. Not as a main piece for Bedard.

    I don’t think the issue with Santana is payroll at all. It’s never been before and Santana is the kind of guy where they are not going to start getting budget conscious.

    That $13 million is not a lot compared to the $140 million santana is going to take to sign.

    I’d be hesitant to trade matsui. Good chance the yankees are going to need to outscore teams this season to win.

  268. Dave December 15th, 2007 at 2:02 pm

    Carlos Gonzalez is the dbacks best prospect? I find that hard to believe considering they have one of the best farm systems in baseball and frankly outside of his stint in AAA last yr (42 at bats) the guy just doesnt have great numbers. Some power with a mediocre avg. and below average obp and thats in Double A. His career avg in the minors is 288 and career obp is 341 with 47 stolen bases and 74 homers in 2106 at bats in A -, A, A+, AA and AAA. Compare that to Austin Jackson with career 283 avg and 355 obp, 17 homers and 79 stolen bases in 1176 at bats in A-, A and A+ ball. Gonzalez has more power and is obviously playing at a higher level at this point(because he is older) but the rest of the stats are comparable with Jackson having a better obp and more speed. In A and A+, Tabata has a career avg of 305 and obp of 375 with 52 stolen bases and 13 homers in 886 at bats. Both Jackson and Tabata can potentially both put up better numbers than Gonzalez when they move to AA and AAA ball. Dana Eveland is good but certainly not phil hughes good with not nearly the impeccable control – 2.77 walks per nine and a career 1.17 whip in the minors. Phil had 2.16 and 0.86. He doesnt give up homers and his era in the minors was below 3. Hughes gave up even less homers and an era of 2. Also, Eveland did not perform well in AAA or the majors last yr getting hit hard and harder. Like Hughes, he strikes out more than a batter per inning and the talent is certainly there but he def isnt polished like hughes. Brett Anderson was hammered in A+ ball and probably wont be successful in the majors as a starter. Chris Carter did extremely well in A ball with plenty of power and a good obp and avg but he is playing against poor pitching. Aaron Cunningham isnt much and prolly wont be starting in a major league uni – maybe a solid bench player or not so good starter. Greg smith is the last player – more of the same with quality but not stellar numbers in AAA. Carlos Gonzalez and Dana Eland are probably the two best pieces in this trade, I dont think Gonzalez looks great by his numbers but i guess the talent is there. Eveland has not performed well at the highest levels. To me, the yanks offer of Hughes, Melky and Tabata/Jackson is actually a better offer than this package. We would be giving up an Mlb ready centerfielder and potential ace along with one of our best prospect who will be a star soon enough. The package the dbacks gave up doesnt seem to have anyone who is a sure thing. I think the yanks should go for quantity over quality – take hughes out of the deal and just offer up six minor league prospects or five prospects and melky. I think the teams would rather spread the risk out over many players than put all their eggs in one basket. I would trade Melky, Sanchez, Mcclutchen, Tabata and two lower levels and see if the twins bite. That probably isnt enough but im just saying we should stress quantity over quality like the dbacks did to get haren – none of those guys are really all that outstanding.

    The yanks claim they want to get rid of Moose or Matsui’s contract in order to be in the santana bidding. The only time the yanks are concerned with money is when they have the chance to get an ace … What is that about? We didnt care about money when we signed Giambi, Arod, Matsui, damon, Posada, Moose, clemens but now that we can get santana money is an issue? Pitching is far more important than hitting, when will the club realize this?

  269. Mehdi thinks Bostondirtdogs are scum December 15th, 2007 at 2:06 pm

    I can’t wait till the season starts so all this sniping will at least be offset by what goes on on the diamond. Sick of hearing blo hard Red Sox scum butckets like NY’s finest above.

  270. Buddy Biancalana December 15th, 2007 at 2:11 pm

    CB-

    I totally agree about the payroll issue, but I thought the idea of moving Matsui was to clear some money out. I would like to keep Matsui, but if he can be moved to acquire pieces to obtain Johan, then you make that trade.

  271. CB December 15th, 2007 at 2:14 pm

    “To me, the yanks offer of Hughes, Melky and Tabata/Jackson is actually a better offer than this package… The package the dbacks gave up doesnt seem to have anyone who is a sure thing.”

    The A’s and the Twins are looking for very different things in trading Haren and Santana. That makes if very difficult to do one to one comparisons.

    The A’s have a terrible minor league system and not much talent at the major league.

    Beane is engaging in full tilt rebuilding. In trading Haren, Blanton, etc. his primary purpose seems to be to rebuild his depleted minor league system.

    For whatever reason Oakland’s player development has fallen off the past few years. They’ll have trouble rebuilding entirely through the draft – they don’t pay over slot – so it will take them a long time.

    Beane is going to try to turn his assests – Haren, Street, Blanton, etc. – into a large volume of talented players. I think he’ll try to turn those three arms into 12 or so prospects. First step in rebuilding is reconstructing his minor league system.

    The Twins have said they aren’t interested in rebuilding. They have morneau, mauer, cuddyer, liriano, etc. Even without Santana they have talent at the major league level.

    They are looking for major league ready, cost controlled young players. They aren’t looking for volume. They want at least 3 players they know can step in and perform at the major league level next year.

    They are moving into a new publicly financed ball park. They aren’t looking to put up a white flag and start over. They have to try to win before Mauer, Morneau, etc. hit their free agency years. That’s a narrow window.

    The two teams are looking for very different packages.

    I don’t think the twins will bite on volume, especially from the yankees. Their system is also weak in position players and strong in arms.

  272. ThatWasMe December 15th, 2007 at 2:15 pm

    Car 54
    The two officers were Gunther Toody and Francis Muldoon.

  273. Bobcats Father December 15th, 2007 at 2:17 pm

    Bobby is in timeout.

  274. james December 15th, 2007 at 2:17 pm

    The Giants asked about Matsui not the other way around and if it was really connected to a Santana deal it was probably over the fact that Noah Lowery might have been our version of John Lester. A major chip to make the deal, Not over Payroll. The reporters won’t let it go now for lack of anything else to write about. Well nothing besides Bud’s ‘I haven’t even read the Mithcell report that’s destroyed 80 mens reputations, That’s how I roll’ Selig. I sincerely doubt the Yankees are determined to trade Matsui who makes a lot of money in over seas marketing in order to lower payroll.

  275. ThatWasMe December 15th, 2007 at 2:18 pm

    Gunther Toody grew up on Long Island and went to school in NE.

  276. randy l. December 15th, 2007 at 2:22 pm

    “sorry for the ranting, but I’m really, really crazy about this whole thing.)”

    doreen-
    how could anyone who reads the report not be upset about it?

    REPORT TO THE COMMISSIONER OF BASEBALL
    OF AN INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATION INTO
    THE ILLEGAL USE OF STEROIDS AND OTHER
    PERFORMANCE ENHANCING SUBSTANCES
    BY PLAYERS IN MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL

    it says” in major league baseball”, it doesn’t say “players involved with a mets clubhouse guy and a yankee personal trainer”, and that is what the report basically is.

    it’s a hachet job. fans don’t see it on a regular basis, but there is a constant battle going on for control of baseball between the players and the owners. the owners have let every player know that their name could be picked and put in a future report that would damage their reputations and there is nothing they can do about it.

    the purpose of the mitchell report is to use the steroid issue as a tool to control the players. the simple response of the players union should be to sue the owners . the last time the players did this they got hundreds of millions in collusion damages. it doesn’t hit the papers because mlb settled.

    the owners in mlb should not be investigating the players of mlb. it is a conflict of interest because it gives them power over the players. if the owners can sacrifice an asset to mlb like roger clemens, every player has to think they’d better watch out and not stand up to the owners on anything.

    there will be the other shoe dropping from the players association. we may not hear about it if there’s a settlement and no one is allowed to comment. that’s what happened with collusion. i know this isn’t over.

  277. Doreen December 15th, 2007 at 2:25 pm

    randy l. –

    I told my husband this morning that I would not be surprised if there was a job action by the Players Association. Do you think that could happen as a direct result of this report?

  278. Dave December 15th, 2007 at 2:31 pm

    If matsui gets us the pieces we need to obtain santana, Im fine with that. If we get rid of Matsui as a salary dump or to acquire some backup starter who will suck in the AL like Lowry, I will not be okay with that. Matsui is still a very useful piece and should if traded, be able to get us some top teir talent esp if he is going to a team like the giants where he will bat third and be the best hitter on the team. I would trade matsui and whoever else for Cain or Lincecum or minor league talent and use those pieces in order to obtain Johan – then we can clear up some payroll and not trade our best prospects for santana.

  279. Dave December 15th, 2007 at 2:37 pm

    CB – Even though the twins and A’s are looking for different things you can still compare the package the A’s took for Haren to what the yanks offered up for santana. Pete said that the dbacks traded up their best talent for haren and so the yanks will have to offer something a little better than hughes, melky and a high level prospect. I disagree – i think what the yanks offered is actually a better deal so i dont see why the dbacks package would force the yankees hand to offer something even better. It doesnt make sense.

  280. Yazman December 15th, 2007 at 2:38 pm

    I don’t see Phil Hughes on the top-50 prospects list.

    Is that because he’s not rookie-eligible, or because they just don’t rank him that highly?

  281. randy l. December 15th, 2007 at 2:40 pm

    doreen-
    since the report was an unfair attack on players, i think the players union has to attack back . i wish i had the numbers , but the last confidential collusion settlement was for hundreds of millions of dollars. rather than go on strike, i think it would make more sense to sue the owners over the mitchell report.

    why lose money when you can make them pay? baseball is such big business now (6-7 times what it was 10 years ago) that i think the owners are simply trying to get control of the game. in other words, it’s not about steroids. it’s about control and power.

    that’s why it makes you crazy thinking you are reading about solving a steroid issue. i don’t think that’s what the objective is.

  282. Mr. GoodKat December 15th, 2007 at 2:40 pm

    Hughes isn’t considered a prospect anymore because not a rook anymore.

  283. Ethan December 15th, 2007 at 2:42 pm

    Hughes is no longer eligible for that list. He had too many major league innings last year.

  284. bri guy December 15th, 2007 at 2:42 pm

    save hughes

  285. Dave December 15th, 2007 at 2:42 pm

    I completely agree randy – people are taking the mitchell report as some sort of grand player bust when it was just two guys from the yanks and mets clubhouse that started telling mitchell names left and right. Its ridiculous that the non-fan world is taking all this as the judge, jury and executioner. Please – give me a break. A redsox employee blackmailed an ex-yankee clubbie and ex-met clubbie to start talking about players or they would go to jail for a very, very long time. This is more like a witch hunt than a private investigation.

  286. Mr. GoodKat December 15th, 2007 at 2:42 pm

    I think Santana’s price will go up slightly, but you have to remember that Haren is under contract for 3 more seasons roughly at 6 million per whereas Santana will make around 20-25 million PER SEASON.

  287. murphydog December 15th, 2007 at 2:43 pm

    Doreen:

    I’m sure Randy has his view and I’m interested to see it.

    I am thinking that Fehr is just waiting for the first case of discipline based on the Mitchell report to declare war via grievance, etc. Fehr will use that forum to attack all the flaws in the report on behalf of all the players.

  288. Ethan December 15th, 2007 at 2:43 pm

    I would guess that he would be in the top 15 or even higher if he were on that list. Somewhere between Joba and Kennedy I would think. Maybe even top 5-10.

  289. Giuseppe Franco December 15th, 2007 at 2:47 pm

    I would trade matsui and whoever else for Cain or Lincecum or minor league talent and use those pieces in order to obtain Johan – then we can clear up some payroll and not trade our best prospects for santana.

    That ship has sailed. The Giants are no longer interested in Matsui now that they have signed Rowand.

    Besides, I’d rather keep Lincecum instead of shipping him off to MIN so the Yanks can spend another $150M to get Santana.

  290. murphydog December 15th, 2007 at 2:47 pm

    randy:

    Guess I was writing while you were posting.

    Don’t you think they will wait until Selig tries to take action against someone based on the report? That will give them a great forum to complain, and then they could unload on Mitchell with both barrels and Mitchell won’t be there to defend himself. It would be a scream if the first discipline attempted based on the report was beaten.

  291. Doreen December 15th, 2007 at 2:49 pm

    murphydog-

    That tactic makes sense.

  292. CB December 15th, 2007 at 2:52 pm

    Dave,

    I think you’re perhaps looking at it too much from the yankees side of things.

    Look at it from the stand point of the seller.

    The A’s identified their own organizational needs and got what is probably very close to exactly the type of package they wanted. They got the level and quantity of talent they were looking for.

    In the A’s deal – they sold at the price they wanted. They got what they were demanding.

    I know you didn’t think much of their package – but honestly Beane got a ton of talent. A lot of risk as well – but I think he was willing to absorb some risk in getting talent that was on the raw side in order to get the volume he needed to restock the system.

    By analogy – consider the Twins. They have been very public and vocal about their demands already – Hughes/ Kennedy or Lester/ Ellsbury.

    The Haren deal is important because it establishes the market for a starter at a very high cost – not only in terms of absolute level of talent traded – but in the precedent of the seller of the starting pitcher having his demands met.

    The A’s got that deal done very strongly on their terms. That sets a precedent for Satana in those terms.

    Now I know that the market for Santana is very limited. But there’s no way to compare Haren to Santana.

    The A’s got very close to what they wanted in this deal. I think this puts even more honus on Smith to sell Santana only for the deal he’s been so public about getting.

    If not I think he’ll hold Santana, see how the season goes and revisit a trade before the deadline.

    Just my opinion.

  293. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") & dammit SAVE HUGHES !!! December 15th, 2007 at 2:57 pm

    I’m betting mid season Minnesota sees they’re still in the hunt and resigns Santana to a longterm contract. Cohlad’s not letting this guy go it would send a big middle finger to their fan base.

  294. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") & dammit SAVE HUGHES !!! December 15th, 2007 at 3:00 pm

    That ship has sailed. The Giants are no longer interested in Matsui now that they have signed Rowand

    could be or it just could mean the Yankees are trying to force SF’s hand or another team that may want Matsui, seeing Matsui as a good contract high rewards through fan base guy another team could be jumping into the sweepstakes possibly LAD or SF if not some team that needs a LH power bat

  295. murphydog December 15th, 2007 at 3:02 pm

    “We made every effort to establish the truthfulness of the information that we received,” former U.S. Senate Major Leader George Mitchell said Friday during a half-hour interview at his law office. “Several of the witnesses were interviewed in the presence of federal law enforcement agents who informed the witnesses that if they made false statements they would subject themselves to possible criminal jeopardy. So there was very strong incentives to tell the truth.”

    Spare me the sanctimonious nonsense. Rats facing jail lie, embellish and exaggerate all the time. That’s why we have these quaint little customs in our criminal justice system called the Right of Confrontation and cross-examination. And just exactly what were these stoolies promised if they coughed up the right answer? No jail? Less jail? Lower fines? The chance to plead to reduced charges? In a real case the prosecution would have to disclose the promises made in return for the cooperation and then a jury could consider the benefit to the witness when assessing the credibility of their testimony.

  296. GreenBeret7 December 15th, 2007 at 3:05 pm

    randy l.
    December 15th, 2007 at 2:40 pm
    doreen-
    since the report was an unfair attack on players, i think the players union has to attack back . i wish i had the numbers , but the last confidential collusion settlement was for hundreds of millions of dollars. rather than go on strike, i think it would make more sense to sue the owners over the mitchell report.

    why lose money when you can make them pay? baseball is such big business now (6-7 times what it was 10 years ago) that i think the owners are simply trying to get control of the game. in other words, it’s not about steroids. it’s about control and power.

    that’s why it makes you crazy thinking you are reading about solving a steroid issue. i don’t think that’s what the objective is.

    The first two links are specific cases
    The third are more links to other. There have been at least 7 cases.

    ________________________________________________
    The 1087-99collusion settlement was closeto 280 million dollars.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball_collusion

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....lusion_ap/

    http://www.google.com/search?s.....+collusion

  297. GreenBeret7 December 15th, 2007 at 3:06 pm

    *1987-1989**

  298. murphydog December 15th, 2007 at 3:15 pm

    Ask yourselves why a federal law enforcement agent would have to remind someone that they would face “criminal jeopardy” if they didn’t tell the truth? Picture what kind of a conversation that was.

    Do ya think maybe the bit about criminal jeopardy just came up in casual conversation, like small talk, or was it said maybe because somebody was hesitant and was changing their story a lot? What do you think about someone’s credibility when they are hesitant and change their story a lot until you yell at them and threaten them with jail and then they suddenly give up the “truth”?

    It’s interesting to do interrogations and take proffers and see how the worms turn. It all comes down to how big the hammer is and how big the reward for saying the magic words.

  299. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") & dammit SAVE HUGHES !!! December 15th, 2007 at 3:15 pm

    I know we have Jose Molina but why are we not interested in signing Miguel Olivo again ?

  300. BBB December 15th, 2007 at 3:22 pm

    I didn’t read all the comments but I’m sure it has already been mentioned that Santana now wants 7 years, still @ 20 a year I think, but that is a LOT for a guy who has recently had some talk of elbow problems surrounding him. Of course it isn’t really the money that worries me, especially since we have so much coming off the books after this year. It’s the COMBINATION of the money and the players we’d have to give up that is a dealbreaker to me and I think it will also be one for the Beaneaters.

    From everything I have read in “cyberspace” Twinkies fans want the team to go for it next year with Liriano back and an improved offense featuring Delmon Young. They think their pitching trumps Detroit’s and their offense trumps Cleveland’s (I agree w/the former, not so much the latter.) And if that’s the public sentiment in Minny, the fans will be pissed if the chance to go for it is taken away via a Santana trade in which the Twinkies get less than Oakland got for Haren. And I don’t see us or Boston giving up more. So I think they will keep Santana and possibly trade him at the deadline – which would be good for us as IPK’s value will be higher then, as will Horne’s. Lester’s value will probably be lower, since, ya know…he really is not much better than an average pitcher.

  301. randy l. December 15th, 2007 at 3:22 pm

    murpheydog-

    i guess that’s why the owners, through selig, will be careful who they go after. i think they think they have already made their point. they don’t really have to suspend any players,
    but if they do , your scenario sounds like an effective counter attack.

    one problem with the mitchell report is that it’s presented like it’s a legal document from a government agency, when it’s not. it’s not for example a summons to court for an arraignment, but it looks like a criminal charge against players like clemens to someone who’s the average fan.

    you would know this. what legal clout does the mitchell report have for prosecuters to use?

  302. BBB December 15th, 2007 at 3:22 pm

    Adding an addendum to my previous post…

    …so, in closing, SAVE HUGHES!!!

  303. CB December 15th, 2007 at 3:24 pm

    ” I know we have Jose Molina but why are we not interested in signing Miguel Olivo again ?”

    Brandon,

    They may carry twelve pitchers all season because of the innings cap on Joba and Phil.

    They can’t afford to carry three catchers. Olivo is going to look for a deal where he’ll be a number two.

    Pohlad is not going to fork over the money for Santana. Not going to happen. He’s let so many people walk before.

    Also, what makes you so sure that in the middle of the season Santana will sign with the twins?

    Closer he gets to testing the market the more expensive he gets.

    He sees that his chances of winning with the twins will always be limited (see his reaction to them trading Castillo – when they get rid of nathan how will he feel?)

    If they haven’t signed him yet he’s not going to do them any favors midseason. If he’s healthy he’ll get his money on the market at his choice of team.

  304. pat December 15th, 2007 at 3:26 pm

    I figured Fehr was going to wait until after next weeks appearance before Congress to make any public statements. I read this morning that has now been pushed back to mid-January. I think both sides are going to be careful about what they say and do until then. Both got their wrists slapped by Congress before and I don’t think they are looking to have it happen again.

  305. Todd Drew December 15th, 2007 at 3:27 pm

    murphydog,
    You are right about everything. Now we’ve got to get you and randy l. newspaper columns because everyone with a press pass is writing their stories off the blacklisted names. I finally finished reading the whole report and the biggest thing I came away with is that Mitchell was lazy and sloppy. This was really a poor effort.

  306. BBB December 15th, 2007 at 3:29 pm

    Also, because I haven’t been here for a few days, anyone heard anything about any interest in any of the better non-tendered players, i.e. Otsuka or Prior? There’s *probably* something medically wrong with Otsuka, but it’s worth checking out, just in case it was actually only a dumb decision by the Rangers. This certainly wouldn’t be the first time that’s occurred…

  307. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") & dammit SAVE HUGHES !!! December 15th, 2007 at 3:31 pm

    CB good point on the Pholad thing and the SP capacity, I just see the Pohlad thing as he has fans he needs to cater to, they’ve grown attached to Johan if during the season he continues to be Johan Santana the ace I see it very hard for Minny to let him go, but true he might not want to stay there at all.

  308. GreenBeret7 December 15th, 2007 at 3:33 pm

    Miguel Olivo is one of the worst defensive catchers in baseball. Think Don Slaught or Matt Nokes. Think Mike Piazza only worse.

    http://www.baseball-reference......mi01.shtml

  309. james December 15th, 2007 at 3:36 pm

    GreenBeret7 it’s the Holiday season why would I wanna imagine a worse defensive catcher Mike Piazza.

  310. CB December 15th, 2007 at 3:40 pm

    BBB,

    I agree with your points on Santana. Particularly about Twins fans wanting to keep him. If Smith doesn’t get the package he’s been so public about and takes less their fan base will pillory him.

    The lesser deal will still be better than two picks but I don’t know if this is a rational situation anymore.

    The twins will never be the favorites to win over the other teams int the AL. I’d guess the twins fans look at it this way – with Santana and Liriano this may be our best chance to win for the next ten years. We’re always underdogs we need to take a shot this year.

    There’s an opportunity cost to trading santana for the twins that hard to imagine from the new york/ boston perspective.

    If 2008 was your best chance to win for the next 10 years what would you want your general manager to get for your ace in order to justify giving up that opportunity?

  311. BBB December 15th, 2007 at 3:46 pm

    “I just see the Pohlad thing as he has fans he needs to cater to”

    Pohlad to me has never really appeared to care about catering to the fans before, but I do agree that catering to the fans is gonna play into this because of Bill Smith being new. He has to establish goodwill and I think that is part of negotiations dragging the way they have – he needs to make sure he gets a package that the fans are going to be satisfied with. Everybody always talked, in relation to A-Rod, about the Yanks having a new stadium to fill – well so will the Twins, soon. With the Viqueens getting a lot better, Twins ownership needs to give Minnesotans a reason to still want to spend discretionary income on baseball. That’s why I think Smith will appease the fans by keeping Johan and trying to go for it, b/c the other option is to get less for Johan than Beane got for Haren. If they’re not in the race by mid-July, which they won’t be IMO, he’ll trade Johan then.

  312. MarkK December 15th, 2007 at 3:58 pm

    (first posted in wrong thread)

    If Santana truly wants to pitch in Pinstripes, h3 ought to walk up to Pohlad and Smith and tell them that NY is the only team with which he’ll sign. A CHOICE: do it now and take what they offer OR wait until after the season and get a stinkin’ draft pick. Either way, Santana and his agent get their money.

    Of course, I’m dreaming.

  313. whozat December 15th, 2007 at 4:08 pm

    “The A’s got that deal done very strongly on their terms. That sets a precedent for Satana in those terms.”

    Well…when your terms are “a bunch of high-upside guys that are really far away from the majors” that’s a price that’s a lot easier to get then “several MLB-ready or near-MLB-ready high-upside talents”.

    Personally, I think people are just seeing 6-1 and flipping out that the price for Johan just got higher. I don’t see that. I think Billy took high-risk, high-upside. Smith was going for low-risk, high upside. Also, Haren’s reasonable contract DID allow teams like the Reds to stick their noses in and boost the price.

    I don’t think this deal changed the reasonable price for Santana. If anything, I think it made it more likely that Smith will keep him as the season starts. Which, frankly, feels like the best possible outcome for the Yankees.

  314. Alan December 15th, 2007 at 4:12 pm

    Bill Smith is clearly in a Catch-22 situation. He can’t throw up a white flag on a season that hasn’t started by dealing his best pitcher this soon. Smith has 2 windows of oppotunity with Santana. He can see how spring training shapes things with his team and if he deems it feasible to accept the best deal then he can in late March after careful explanation to the Twins fanbase. He can also wait until he sees the team’s position in July and do a deal then.

  315. randy l. December 15th, 2007 at 4:19 pm

    todd drew-
    read your interesting take on tejada on your web site. even though the players are millionaires if they make it, it’s still class warfare for most players. when you look at it that way, it does give you some insight behind the goals of the mitchell report.

  316. Russell W December 15th, 2007 at 4:24 pm

    Santana ( ON THE MOUND )
    Pettitte
    Wang
    Joba
    Hughes
    Kennedy / Mussina

    … you want to go lefty-righty-lefty so Santana, Wang, Pettitte, Joba, Hughes looks nice. But if the Yanks can get Santana without giving up their 3 young starts (fat chance) then they would likely put Joba back in the bullpen and stick Moose in there with Kennedy long man.

  317. Todd Drew December 15th, 2007 at 4:26 pm

    Thanks, randy l. I recommend Away Games to anyone who hasn’t read it. You will never look at baseball the same way again.

  318. VRSCE December 15th, 2007 at 4:36 pm

    REPORT UNFAIR TO PLAYERS

    Many turn to alcohol & drugs for relief.

  319. CB December 15th, 2007 at 4:41 pm

    “Well…when your terms are “a bunch of high-upside guys that are really far away from the majors” that’s a price that’s a lot easier to get then “several MLB-ready or near-MLB-ready high-upside talents”.”

    Not true at all. Getting a large number of high upside prospects could certainly be as difficult as getting FEWER closer to major league ready prospects.

    But then you probably know baseball and negotiations much better than Billy Beane and Josh Byrnes.

    I haven’t seen one post that has claimed that getting the same number of close to major league ready prospects is not harder than getting that same number of lower level prospects.

    How is that some kind of major insight? That’s just obvious. But thanks for sharing.

    But that is a convenient straw man argument, come to think of it.

    To use non specific words like “bunch” and try to equate that with “several” is pure rhetoric.

    In addition, putting them in quotes as if it were something I wrote is misleading. This is particularly true when you start out your post with an exact quote of what I wrote but then start putting ridiculous statements into quotes right afterwards and make no mention of the latter quoted being your own silly words.

    That implies it was part of my post. Which those lines weren’t.

    I commented in earlier posts how I thought Beane was taking was willing to absorb the risk of getting more talented prospects who are farther away because his farm system is so barren. His goal is to rebuild his system so he can compete down the line.

    No one is “flipping out.” Again – cheap rhetoric. People are making observations on the trade. Many people feel that Arizona got a very good deal. That’s their opinion. Because it disagrees with your doesn’t mean they are “flipping out.”

    How familiar are you with the Arizona minor league system to even make such a statement?

    That’d be interesting to know.

  320. Dave December 15th, 2007 at 4:43 pm

    CB,

    Your argument does make a lot of sense. Your right in that i did not see it from that perspective. Primarily, because I didnt know what the A’s were looking to acquire for Haren. My number one problem with the twins getting their demands met is exactly what you stated at the end of your post – the market for Santana is extremely limited. How many teams have the money and the prospects not to mention the genuine interest to acquire Santana and how many are willing to give up exactly what the twins want for one yr of an ace? I think the As were giving up several yrs of a relatively cheap pitcher on their side of the deal while the twins are basically giving up one yr of santana and the rights to negotiate with him for a ridiculously large long term contract. Three teams seem to have even a remote interest in this and that is the yanks, mets and sox. I think the sox interest stems from the fact that they dont want santana going to the yanks unless it is for a hefty price and the mets dont have prospects they are willing to part with to actually make the deal happen. Thus, one team actually has the money, prospects and genuine interest and that is the yanks. They arent going to give up any more than hughes, melky and jakcson/tabata/horne for one yr of santana and 140 million or so for a long-term deal. If the twins arent willing to negotiate a bit with their terms because the A’s recieved their demands for haren, the twins will not be able to trade santana. And if they wait until the all star break, they are going to be asking teams to give up prospects for a couple of months of santana – i dont think that will be worth very much. So if the twins remain dedicated to their demands, the only team that really loses out in the end, is the twins – they will probably end up with nothing more than a couple of high draft picks for the best pitcher in baseball which isnt quite as good as hughes, melky and one of the yanks best minor league prospects. That is the way i see it.

    Another route the yanks could and probably should go in is pertaining to the giants interest in matsui. Of course, the Giants desparately need a number three power hitter which can be matsui and the issue was NOT solved by acquiring Rowand. If the yanks throw in a high-level prospect like kennedy or horne, cant they obtain cain esp since they have Lincecum, Zito and Lowry on the roster and need hitting badly? And Cain along with melky, can probably be used in the twins deal for Johan Santana. That addresses three problems. One, the Giants would obtain a power hitter to bat in the middle of their lineup along with a great MLB-ready pitching prospect in kennedy or horne to bolster their depleted farm system. The twins would recieve a proven major league ace who comes at a cheap cost to replace Santana in Cain along with a proven major league centerfielder with a solid glove to replace Hunter. The yanks would lower their payroll by taking Matsui’s two yrs remaining on his contract off the books (although they would probably have to give some money to the giants in the deal.) And the yanks wouldnt have to trade their top-teir talent in Hughes, Chamberlain, Jackson, Tabata or maybe even kennedy if they trade Horne, to get Santana. The deal for the yanks would basically be Matsui, Kennedy/Horne, Melky and some cash for Johan Santana.

    Also, if i were cash, I would be asking what the A’s want for Street. If the A’s sold haren no doubt they are shopping street and blanton and even swisher, probably looking to rebuild the entire team. Street would be the perfect edition to our flimsy bullpen – and if Mo starts to fall off this yr, street can easily slide into the closer role just in case.

  321. Jake December 15th, 2007 at 4:49 pm

    Here we go again with the presumptions that the Yankees can get Santana without trading Hughes.

    Damn, I thought we got passed this junk. And yet we are right back in the thick of things. I am sure NY is about to get raked over the coals if they complete this trade. I am not saying that the Twins don’t deserve to get some solid prospects, because they do, but that doesn’t mean whatever team trades for Santana is making a smart move.

    6 years, $140 million for a pitcher. W-O-W. I remember someone signing Kevin Brown for what was an absurd amount of money at the time, and look how that turned out…

  322. whozat December 15th, 2007 at 4:52 pm

    “In addition, putting them in quotes as if it were something I wrote is misleading.”

    Wow, you took that personally when no such insult was intended. Awesome.

    I was in no way attributing those words to you. I was using hyperbole when I called it way easier, yes. However, I still assert that Billy’s haul is no more costly then what Smith’s been asking for.

    AZ parted with four of their top ten prospects, one guy who was in the top 25 prospects, no others in the top 50. The other three interesting pieces were talented, but very far away.

    I agree with your point about Billy being willing to take a package like that because he’s trying to rebuild his system. I disagree that Billy taking this package makes Santana any more expensive. We know that Billy’s “haul” was one top prospect that’s not MLB-ready, three far-away-but-talented prospects, and some less interesting dudes. I submit that that package is no more valuable than one four-star MLB-ready prospect (Kennedy/Lester), a second MLB-ready player (Melky/Crisp), another four-star prospect (Horne/Lowrie), and a less interesting piece.

  323. Nick in SF December 15th, 2007 at 4:54 pm

    For the love of god, can folks please stop imagining that the Giants will trade either Cain or Lincecum for Matsui + prospect(s)? It is not going to happen.

  324. Dave December 15th, 2007 at 4:55 pm

    Jake,

    Brown is not even close to Santana – you cant even make the comparison. If there is three teams involved, i think the yanks can make the deal happen without involving hughes. Particularly, if the yanks can acquire a cheap, proven pitcher from a third team like Cain, he can be used in the trade rather than hughes. If the sox can negotiate for Santana, without including Buckholz, it is perfectly feasible to think the yanks can negotiate without including hughes.

  325. Ethan December 15th, 2007 at 4:57 pm

    I like Street a lot too, but I know he’s had injury problems. I wonder what the Twins are asking for Nathan vs. what the A’s want for Street?

    I’m sure that it’s much more difficult to deal with the Twins regarding Nathan while the Santana deal/no deal is up in the air. I’d probably rather have Nathan, but Street interests me too.

  326. Dave December 15th, 2007 at 4:57 pm

    I think the best possible scenario for the yanks is if the twins wait and santana becomes a free agent or even if the twins wait until right before the trade deadline. How much can they possibly ask a team to give up for a month or so of santana?

  327. Scooter December 15th, 2007 at 4:58 pm

    Nick
    Especially not after the Rowand signing… although I’m not sure Sabean was stupid enough to trade either guy before that signing. IF he were, it would have been for Rios, not for Matsui

    Every quote I’ve read says that Sabean is content with his outfield, and will use chips to get corner infield help

    I wonder if Sabean would do Sanchez + Dave Roberts for Matsui. He’d dump Roberts’ contract, upgrade the offense, and leave his two big starters in place.

  328. Dave December 15th, 2007 at 5:00 pm

    No one in their right mind who actually follows baseball should be comparing the yanks acquiring santana to any other ridiculous pitching acquisition the yanks have made in the last seven yrs. And you cant compare the best pitcher in baseball who is in the prime of his career to someone like Johnson, Brown, Vazquez, Pavano, Wright, Weaver or whoever else you want to name.

  329. Jake December 15th, 2007 at 5:01 pm

    Nick,

    You’re absolutely right. Aren’t those talks over?

  330. CB December 15th, 2007 at 5:02 pm

    Dave,

    I agree with what your saying on Santana. And this is just my opinion – who knows what is going to happen.

    I have been following the minnesota papers and some of their blogs on this just to get a sense of what’s going on on that side of the trade – as you’d naturally suspect – it’s a very different ball game.

    BBB commented on this before – just like the yankees wanted to keep ARod at least in part to fill their new stadium – the twins have a new stadium (publicly financed, in a state not doing so hot economically). Bill Smith has to worry about how the fans/ state are going to react.

    I don’t think the can afford to make the organization seem like another version of the Marlins. Not after getting that stadium.

    As yankee fans I think its very hard to imagine things from the twins perspectives. We go into every season either as the favorites or serious contenders.

    The Twins and other small market teams don’t have that luxury. They have only a certain time frame to compete. If that time passes they have to break down the team and build it back up again. That process could take up a decade.

    Look what’s happening in Oakland – when do you think they’ll be even quasi-competitive again?

    Smith is in a bad spot here and its impossible to know how he will react. Santana’s the best – but the extenuating circumstances of his contract make the market for him tiny.

    If there is that mismatch between the players intrinsic value and what you can get for him on the market – the utility value of keeping him for the year and making a run (however unlikely that is) goes up.

    I get the sense that’s the way many twins fans are felling now – that’s their gut sense of this. Heck, if we can’t get “fair value” for the best pitcher in baseball what do we have to lose but to keep him and take our shot? This may be our best chance to win for the next 10 years.

    From their perspective I don’t think this is unreasonable. I think it’ll be bad for them in the long term – but it must be tough if all you have to look forward to is a long term future which never seems to come.

    If the Twins stunk things would be much clearer – no way you take the picks. But they did make the playoffs only a year ago.

    I think all of this puts Smith in an really difficult spot.

    We’ll see what he does.

    I assume Street is available – he’d be perfect for the yankees pen.

    That said – I’d be very leery of dealing with Beane. He’s very smart in that he always trades players when he has leverage (that’s why he decided to move haren now). And he nearly always makes great deals. He’s going to extract a lot for Street – look at how expensive relief pitching has gotten.

    The question for street becomes – is he worth overpaying for?

    Supposedly the pirates asked the mets for Fernando Martinez (by far their top prospect) in exchange for Damaso Marte.

    I can only imagine what Beane is going to demand for Street.

  331. Dave December 15th, 2007 at 5:08 pm

    i dont think the yanks would take sanchez plus roberts for matsui – i wouldnt. What kind of contract does roberts have?

  332. Jake December 15th, 2007 at 5:10 pm

    Dave,

    Have you read any rumors that indicate that the Yankees are attempting to swing a three-team trade for Santana?

    If so, what are they looking like?

  333. CB December 15th, 2007 at 5:11 pm

    “Wow, you took that personally when no such insult was intended. Awesome.

    I was in no way attributing those words to you. I was using hyperbole when I called it way easier, yes.”

    Your post was really snarky. Read it again.

    And yes when you quote someone else’s post and then you start using quotes again immediately it is logical for a reader to assume that the quote is from the original post. That’s not a real leap of imagination.

    And no I don’t want your self-described “hyperbole” to seem to be attributed to me in any way.

    That was my point – in using exaggerated, hyperbolic language you’re conveniently oversimplifying the prior posts you are criticizing.

    That’s pretty much the definition of a straw man argument.

  334. Dave December 15th, 2007 at 5:18 pm

    Well, If smith and the twins decide to take that route, i think that works out best for the yanks as well. We wouldnt have to give up any prospects, however, we would have to give up draft picks which does hurt but with so many of our players leaving perhaps, we can get some of those picks back next off season. I think the yanks have to give santana the 7 yrs 140 million he is asking for in the open market no doubt and the money (hopefully not the years) will probably go up. The prospects and the cash are two reasons i would probably like to trade for him by the trade-deadline. How much can the twins ask for if they are completely out of the playoffs and giving santana up for a whole month or so? Either way, i just hope the yanks can finally acquire the ace we are so desparately seeking whether it be this yr or next.

  335. BBFan December 15th, 2007 at 5:18 pm

    Twins already offered $80 mil for four years to Santana which he rejected.

    It is possible that Twins will offer him six or seven years at $20 mil /year and then trade him after a couple of years while he is still in prime.

    Sure, he will have no-trade clause, but if twins approached him after a couple of years, he will OK to be traded to a strong team like Yanks or Sox.

    What do you think about this possible scenario?

  336. Mehdi thinks Bostondirtdogs are scum December 15th, 2007 at 5:20 pm

    FAUX News just ran a story from the AP saying that Andy has admitted using HGH. Prepare for a grownd swell of Red Scum Trolls. SCUM ALERT! SCUM ALERT!

    I am surprised Andy used it. I’m curious to see to what extent.

  337. Kill-Schill(ing) December 15th, 2007 at 5:20 pm

    turn on WFAN, sommers mentioned something about andy pettitte confessing to using HGH.

  338. Jorge Steinbrenner (formerly Mitchell's Eleven, which no longer makes any sense) December 15th, 2007 at 5:20 pm

    just when you thought it was safe to go back into the Santana-less waters, here we go again….

  339. Kill-Schill(ing) December 15th, 2007 at 5:21 pm

    wfan is reporting that pettitte confessed to using HGH.

  340. Mehdi thinks Bostondirtdogs are scum December 15th, 2007 at 5:22 pm

    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/s.....5-17-20-30

  341. Dave December 15th, 2007 at 5:23 pm

    Jake,

    mlbtraderumors mentions that the yanks wouldnt really go after santana until they traded matsui or moose to clear up payroll. To me, this implies that the yanks will try to use the pieces they could acquire for matsui to help get santana since the yanks rarely worry about monetary concerns – esp sums of money as small as what matsui and moose are making this season. And that post about Matsui and Moose is directly under the headline – Yanks are still discussing Santana. I mean its not anything substantial but i think the yanks would try to get someone like cain for matsui and whoever else they would need to give up and then, turn cain around for Johan. Its not likely but not impossible either,.

  342. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") & dammit SAVE HUGHES !!! December 15th, 2007 at 5:24 pm

    Andy Pettitte has admitted using Human Growth Hormone.

    it’s on Daily News site, supposively it was for 2 days that he took it, IDK about that but atleast he admitted it

  343. Jake December 15th, 2007 at 5:25 pm

    Kill-Schill,

    Woah…are you serious? When?! Can one read the interview or comments anywhere?

  344. Ethan December 15th, 2007 at 5:26 pm

    http://www.nytimes.com/aponlin.....ref=sports

    Petite admitted to using HGH for recovery. Wow.

  345. RosterRooster December 15th, 2007 at 5:26 pm

    Yeah, he only took it for two days. Thats like when you get pulled over and a cop asks you how many drinks youve had. “Just two officer. Thank you sir.”

    Its always two.

    If andy has said he only used it for one day, no one would believe him. Three days, and he’s some sort of addict. But two days of hgh, eh, everyone makes mistakes.

  346. Jake December 15th, 2007 at 5:28 pm

    Dave,

    Ya, I read that. I agree that a three team trade would be the best way for the Yankees to try and complete this deal without Hughes, but I just don’t see it happening.

    That would depend on the Yankees prying someone really valuable away from the Giants for Matsui…or not necessarily just the Giants, but someone. Who is going to give up a stud prospect for Matsui?

    So say we manage to keep Hughes (doubtful). The Yankees will still have to package an abundance of farmhands, as well as IPK and Melky.

    At what point does the deal not make sense for the Yankees?

  347. Dave December 15th, 2007 at 5:29 pm

    bbfan,

    That would suck for the yanks and i think ti would be highly unlikely. If santana learned that their plan was to sign him and trade him after a couple of yrs, i dont think he would be too thrilled.

  348. Stephen December 15th, 2007 at 5:31 pm

    Et tu Andy. You broke my heart.

  349. CB December 15th, 2007 at 5:32 pm

    Its for the best that Andy came out and admitted this.

    Using Human Growth Hormone for two days will not do anything to repair an injury or enhance his performance.

    Eventually people are going to start looking at the context for each of these cases in the Mitchell Report.

    He can now start to put it behind him.

    The biggest loser with Pettite’s admission is Clemens. This now puts much more credibility into McNamee’s testimony to Mitchell.

  350. Jake December 15th, 2007 at 5:32 pm

    Ethan,

    Thanks for that.

    Well, at least he was man enough to admit it. 2 days isn’t tough to swallow. And it wasn’t illegal at the time. Man, I feel like a hypocrite, especially as it relates to Bonds and Clemens.

  351. Jennifer - Save Phil Hughes! December 15th, 2007 at 5:32 pm

    randy l.
    December 15th, 2007 at 2:22 pm
    “sorry for the ranting, but I’m really, really crazy about this whole thing.)”

    doreen-
    how could anyone who reads the report not be upset about it?

    REPORT TO THE COMMISSIONER OF BASEBALL
    OF AN INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATION INTO
    THE ILLEGAL USE OF STEROIDS AND OTHER
    PERFORMANCE ENHANCING SUBSTANCES
    BY PLAYERS IN MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL

    it says” in major league baseball”, it doesn’t say “players involved with a mets clubhouse guy and a yankee personal trainer”, and that is what the report basically is.

    That is exactly what I thought when I read that line. It wasn’t a report about what went on in baseball as a whole. It was about people connected with two guys from NY. If he wanted to be impartial, he would have talked with people from each region of the country.

    Doreen I thought the same thing, I wonder if they will go on strike because of this.

  352. Dave December 15th, 2007 at 5:35 pm

    I would say Matsui and Kennedy for the Giants or someones cheap young pitcher so matsui would be the best bat the giants have and kennedy would be a potential replacement for Cain or whoever. Then, we would trade the young player we just attained and melky for Johan. I mean the player would essentially replace Johan for many more yrs and for a much cheaper price and melky would replace Torri Hunter. I think that would be fair but the twins may ask for another high level prospect. In that case it would be Matsui, Kennedy, Melky and a high prospect like Jackson or Tabata for Johan – i would consider doing that but i wouldnt give up any more than that. And that would be a way to keep Hughes, Chamberlain and either jackson or tabata plus horne, betances and sanchez as future stud pitchers in the minor leagues while still getting santana to be our ace for the better part of the next decade. Its not likely but its not impossible. And that would def be the route i would take. Either that or just wait until he leaves the twins as a free agent – i wouldnt let him get traded to another team tho. That would just kill me.

  353. Jennifer - Save Phil Hughes! December 15th, 2007 at 5:36 pm

    I just started to read the report. I’ve only gotten thru the the summary portion, and he must have repeated himself 20 times.

  354. Jennifer - Save Phil Hughes! December 15th, 2007 at 5:38 pm

    Well Andy admitted it. :cry:

    Andy Pettitte used human growth hormone to recover from an elbow injury in 2002, the New York Yankees pitcher said two days after he was cited in the Mitchell Report.

    Pettitte said he tried HGH on two occasions.

    “If what I did was an error in judgment on my part, I apologize,” Pettitte said Saturday in a statement released by his agent. “I accept responsibility for those two days.”

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/base…h.ap/index.html

    Andy we’re behind you!!

  355. Phil December 15th, 2007 at 5:39 pm

    Good for Andy. The best way to deal with these situations is to come out and speak up for yourself rather than let the press set the tone.

    Too many members of ESPN and other outlets have not read the Mitchell report and still mention Andy as a steroid user.

  356. Jake December 15th, 2007 at 5:41 pm

    Dave,

    Ya, all we can do is speculate. Who knows. I am sorry, but just can’t buy the Giants parting with Cain for Kennedy and Matsui. If they were willing to do that, I think the Yankees should hold on to Cain and forget about Santana for the same reasons you referred to for the Twins.

    Cain isn’t going anywhere, that would be a big mistake on the part of Sabaen unless he was really just blown away by what the Giants would receive in return. In a sense, it is nearly identical to what the A’s were asking (and received) for Haren.

  357. Yankee Trader December 15th, 2007 at 5:42 pm

    Matsui not going to the Giants, and if we somehow miraculously did get Cain in that deal, I wouldn’t spin him off to the Twins. Cain’s a definite keeper.

    Why don’t you discuss who needs a corner outfielder like Matsui, and to what cities he would likely waive his NTC, that have a Japanese following!!

    Mussina will go nowhere, unless the Yankees are out of it come July, and he’s traded to a contender, assuming he’s having a successful season.

    Mark Prior and Rich Harden might be worth a look. Anyone know if Rich Harden could convert to a set-up pitcher? Would Beane be reasonable in his demands for this oft-injured pitcher? Houston Street is not that great.

  358. Jennifer - Save Phil Hughes! December 15th, 2007 at 5:42 pm

    For some reason my post didn’t appear, there is also an article on si.

    I feel terribly for Andy. He should do a video taped statement, and tell everyone that is the last time I am commenting on it.

    Next year you know all the idiots will be chanting steriods, when that isn’t even what Andy did. :cry:

  359. Master Wangkee December 15th, 2007 at 5:43 pm

    We get to fight over Yankees prospects again…

    YAY!!!

  360. Jennifer - Save Phil Hughes! December 15th, 2007 at 5:44 pm

    Yeah Phil, I think Andy needs to speak, make it clear that he did not use roids, and he only used hgh to aid in his healing and stopped because he didn’t feel right. The quicker he does it the better. You don’t want to do it whent he news cycle changes.

  361. Jake December 15th, 2007 at 5:44 pm

    Phil,

    I totally agree.

    I love Pettitte and I have already forgiven him. It takes a real man to admit their mistakes even if they were unaware of them in the first place, which I believe he was.

    And again, as he said, it wasn’t illegal at the time.

  362. Save Phil Hughes! December 15th, 2007 at 5:45 pm

    Good for Andy for admitting it. My heart is breaking, but what can ya do.

  363. Dave December 15th, 2007 at 5:49 pm

    I dunno how spectacular cain would be in the AL. I feel like the yanks want an ace – not a really good pitcher but one of the best in the game or the best in the game and cane would not put up numbers like Johan would. I agree tho that it would be tough to get the giants to give up cain. My major reasoning for why the giants may give up cain for kennedy is twofold. One, the Giants have lincecum, zito and lowry under their control for a while and that is easily a pretty solid one, two, three punch even without cain in the picture (i think zito will rebound from his mediocre yr.) And the Giants desparately need hitting far more than pitching. Particularly, they need a solid number three hitter with a lot of pop which is exactly what matsui could provide in the heart of their lineup. Two, if we gave them kennedy, they would be able to immediately add kennedy to their already solid pitching staff making the rotation Zito, Lincecum, Kennedy and Lowry as their number four. They would still have a great starting four but now they would have a strong bat in the heart of their lineup. I just think the trade would make them a better team and you have to give some to get some.

  364. Dave December 15th, 2007 at 5:51 pm

    i would spin cain off – i dont think he would be the ace we are looking for but he would be an excellent piece to use to get Johan

  365. New England December 15th, 2007 at 5:51 pm

    Well, I guess we can stop all the hearsay about the man who came clean about Pettitte and Clemens now. Clemens no has absolutely zero legs to stand on in denial. Pettitte is going to hear a million questions about this all year next year, and if Roger was any kind of man, he’d spare Andy that burden and issue a statement of his own.
    Also, by saying “it’s only HGH” no only offers some kind of fogiveness to the man, but it also belittles the problem as a whole. Bravo for coming clean, Andy, but the fact remains that you cheated (though not against the rules at the time), and you should be held in regard of such.
    On another note:
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.
    Oh, it’s only HGH, so nevermind.

  366. Bill Clinton December 15th, 2007 at 5:52 pm

    Twice you say? Well, I didn’t inhale, so it looks like we’re both innocent, Andy ‘Ol Boy!

  367. Yankee Trader December 15th, 2007 at 5:53 pm

    Listen Santana would be great. The real negatives however, are the length and cost of the extension, 6-7 extra years tacked on to next years 13.5M salary. Huge risk for a pitcher!!

    The Yankees don’t have a replacement for Melkey-certainly wouldn’t put Damon back in center, and they are unlikely to put big bucks into a FA. You want Cameron for 2 years?? Corey Patterson??
    The Red Sox can replace Ellsbury with Crisp, and lose very little if anything to both their offense and defense.

    The Yankees need a solid bullpen, and to keep their starting pitching healthy, and they should be fine. Let’s wait and see what’s available at the July trading deadline.

  368. Bill Clinton December 15th, 2007 at 5:55 pm

    Oh Jesus, people. Let’s be real here. He’s not the freaking Pope. He’s a ballplayer who took a shortcut to get healthy, and you morons buy the “help my team” and “wasn’t feeling right” crap.
    He’s a grown freaking man, who cheated the sport to avoid dealing with an injury like he should have. He’s not a hero.
    What he should do is say sorry for cheating, promise to not do it again, and offer prayer that his dental floss elboy ligaments hold up without them next year.
    Poor Andy, indeed. Good thing he got that 16mil signed for a few days before this all broke. He loves us!

  369. Bill Clinton December 15th, 2007 at 5:56 pm

    that should read elbow.

  370. Phil December 15th, 2007 at 5:56 pm

    “In 2002 I was injured. I had heard that human growth hormone could promote faster healing for my elbow,” Pettitte said in the statement released to The Associated Press by agent Randy Hendricks.

    “I felt an obligation to get back to my team as soon as possible. For this reason, and only this reason, for two days I tried human growth hormone. Though it was not against baseball rules, I was not comfortable with what I was doing, so I stopped.

    “This is it — two days out of my life; two days out of my entire career, when I was injured and on the disabled list,” he said. “I wasn’t looking for an edge. I was looking to heal.”

    Pettitte was not linked to steroids in the report, and he emphasized he never had never used them.

    “I have the utmost respect for baseball and have always tried to live my life in a way that would be honorable,” he said. “If I have let down people that care about me, I am sorry, but I hope that you will listen to me carefully and understand that two days of perhaps bad judgment should not ruin a lifetime of hard work and dedication.

    “I have tried to do things the right way my entire life, and, again, ask that you put those two days in the proper context. People that know me will know that what I say is true,” he said.

  371. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") & dammit SAVE HUGHES !!! December 15th, 2007 at 5:57 pm

    “If what I did was an error in judgment on my part, I apologize,” Pettitte said Saturday in a statement released by his agent. “I accept responsibility for those two days.”

    On Thursday, Pettitte was among 85 players named by former Senate Majority Leader George Mitchell’s investigation into steroids and performance-enhancing drugs. Pettitte had not commented publicly on the allegations.

    Pettitte asked the trainer he shared with Roger Clemens, Brian McNamee, to help him with HGH while on the disabled list early in the season, the report said. McNamee recalled injecting Pettitte two to four times, Mitchell said.

    “In 2002 I was injured. I had heard that human growth hormone could promote faster healing for my elbow,” Pettitte said in the statement released to The Associated Press by agent Randy Hendricks.

    “I felt an obligation to get back to my team as soon as possible. For this reason, and only this reason, for two days I tried human growth hormone. Though it was not against baseball rules, I was not comfortable with what I was doing, so I stopped.

    “This is it — two days out of my life; two days out of my entire career, when I was injured and on the disabled list,” he said. “I wasn’t looking for an edge. I was looking to heal.”

    Pettitte was not linked to steroids in the report, and he emphasized he never had never used them.

    “I have the utmost respect for baseball and have always tried to live my life in a way that would be honorable,” he said. “If I have let down people that care about me, I am sorry, but I hope that you will listen to me carefully and understand that two days of perhaps bad judgment should not ruin a lifetime of hard work and dedication.

    “I have tried to do things the right way my entire life, and, again, ask that you put those two days in the proper context. People that know me will know that what I say is true,” he said.

  372. whozat December 15th, 2007 at 5:58 pm

    “And yes when you quote someone else’s post and then you start using quotes again immediately it is logical for a reader to assume that the quote is from the original post.”

    Only if you want to read it that way. Hyperbole and a straw man are different. One is exaggeration. The other is equating something with a second thing that is obviously false and then attacking the second thing.

    All I said was that it’s way easier to get many (four, as I later specified) far-away-but-maybe-excellent prospects than it is to get several (two) MLB-ready excellent prospects. I admitted that I exaggerated. I then re-addressed my comments and equated the Haren package to what’s currently on the table for Santana. Why can’t we talk about that instead of people getting their backs up and taking offense when none was intended?

  373. Bill Clinton December 15th, 2007 at 6:01 pm

    Cry me a river, Andy. Only a asshat falls for your sob story. You used a foreign substance to circumvent something that you should have done on your own.
    It’s like a child saying that they’ve only cheated once because they forgot to study, so that one time shouldn’t be held against them. It’s was only once! I love the fans so much I wanted to hurry back and help my team! I’m innoncent! I’m a god-fearing family man, and would never, ever do something to hurt my career. Twice! It was only twice!
    I’ll never cheer for you again, and in my mind you’re just like Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, and the countless that haven’t been named yet.
    Andy, you deserve everything coming to you…
    Oh, and in case you guys forgot, he already lied to everyone once when Grimsley tried to tell the world he was using.
    Grimsley should hold a conference and tell us the truth.

  374. Vader December 15th, 2007 at 6:01 pm

    New England,

    I bet you have that #37, Rodney Harrison jersey all ready for tomorrow.

  375. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") & dammit SAVE HUGHES !!! December 15th, 2007 at 6:04 pm

    Bill Clinton I seriously doubt your a Yankee fan w/ those comments, I seriously doubt it.

  376. stuart December 15th, 2007 at 6:11 pm

    yeh Pettitte took HGH on 2 occasions when it was not illegal to help heal from an elbow injury WOW.. that is such a newsmaker!!!!!I guess that is not as bad as Nomar taking roinds for yrs. or Ortiz or Kapler or Nixon..

    In law morons there is something called degrees.. Like 1st degree murder vs manslaguhter… Pettitte is not exactly jose conseco..

    let the boston nonsense rest you pasty white out of shape losers…

  377. Mehdi thinks Bostondirtdogs are scum December 15th, 2007 at 6:12 pm

    Whoever posted as Bill Clinton obviously is a Red Scum fan.

  378. stuart December 15th, 2007 at 6:13 pm

    i guess if I lives in New England with that weather and those hot women I would be a bitter little man also like about 85% of the pasties in boston…

  379. Pope Andy December 15th, 2007 at 6:13 pm

    I believe HGH wasn’t offically banned by MLB until the start of the 2005 season – Andy says he used it in 2002.

  380. Bill Clinton December 15th, 2007 at 6:16 pm

    I’m neither pasty white, a patriots fan (in case you missed it, I’m against cheating, no matter the “degree”), or a “Red Scum fan” so keep your insults to yourself.
    He cheated, and if that’s what you guys want to defend, have at it. I mean, you’ve done it this far, so why stop now?
    Oh, nor am I even remotely out of shape, but its really easy to call names from the security of a keyboard.

  381. TheGhostOfAlvaroEspinoza December 15th, 2007 at 6:16 pm

    Theo Epstein acquired two players that had been known steroid users despite the warnings of his own scouting personnel. I really don’t know why the Red Sox fans are gloating, Theo has plenty of blood on his hands here.

  382. Monica Lewinsky December 15th, 2007 at 6:16 pm

    Quiet Bill, or I’ll tell.

  383. New England December 15th, 2007 at 6:18 pm

    stuart, you got some kind of problem or something, man? Why the pent up hostility because I don’t agree with your take on Pettitte? It’s life, man. It’ll be okay.

  384. New England December 15th, 2007 at 6:20 pm

    I don’t necessarily think that Sox fans are gloating, but rather the rest of baseball. And Earth. The pride and power is starting to fall apart at the pinstripes.

  385. sunny615 December 15th, 2007 at 6:20 pm

    Bill Clinton
    December 15th, 2007 at 6:16 pm

    but its really easy to call names from the security of a keyboard.
    —————
    said the poster with a made up handle.

  386. mary ellen December 15th, 2007 at 6:20 pm

    I agree with CB – Andy’s admission to using HGH definitely gives legs to Mcnamee’s claims about Clemens and his steriod use. Andy is a stand up guy and deserves respect for coming forward and apologizing – HGH was not a banned substance at the time, but he knew he made a mistake and didn’t continue with it beyond the 2 days specified in the report. Anyone who’s at issue with Pettite needs to examine his/her own conscience – we all live and learn, sometimes using poor judgement, but using the experience to make better decisions in the future. And oh, by the way, Bill Clinton is a sleazebag, so his opinion doesn’t really hold much weight. Maybe you should pick a new identity.

  387. RosterRooster December 15th, 2007 at 6:23 pm

    “I don’t necessarily think that Sox fans are gloating, but rather the rest of baseball. And Earth.”

    Have you ever been to another country? Everyone is wearing Yanks hats, not Sox hats, Cubs hats, or anything else.

    No wet dream you have about the crumbling yankees will make it true. We still have 4 times the championships of the Socks.

  388. GreenBeret7 December 15th, 2007 at 6:25 pm

    I really have no more complaints about players using HGH than I do with them getting cortizone shots for injuries, only. The one thing I would change would be that the injuries be verified by at least two doctors in each major league city that are contracted by MLB and not by team doctors and especially not by trainers. MLB is informed of said injuries, the player must then be put on the 15 or 60 day DL. This would eliminate the abuse by getting shots inbetween starts that would promote in between start healing (which may affect or increase pitching performance). Players would also be required to sign a waiver that permits the taking of blood to be tested.

    Cortizone shots may be administered by team doctors and not trainers, but, still must be approved by MLB.

  389. Bill Clinton December 15th, 2007 at 6:27 pm

    Wait, you guys are going by real names here? I had no idea!
    Well, my name is Brian McAddink. I live in White Plains. Im 32. I work there as well. Anything else you need to know? I mean, I’ll tell you whatever you like. Is that okay? Can I voice an opinon now that you know who I am?

  390. Bill Clinton December 15th, 2007 at 6:29 pm

    We stil have…

    Yeah, those are nice memories. I mean especially the latest ones! In light of the past two days, those should be the ones most cherished!

  391. Nick in SF December 15th, 2007 at 6:29 pm

    Sorry it took me a while to get back to the blog to respond. The answer is, yes, any talks involving Cain and Lincecum are dead. Brian Sabean said he won’t entertain offers for either and said he wasn’t actively shopping them before. Said Sabean: “We know the value of both individuals, believe me, and maybe more so after we’ve gone through this exercise. These might be the hottest two names in baseball.”

    Speculate all you like, but I’m telling you the Yankees aren’t getting either Cain or Lincecum.

  392. Bill Clinton December 15th, 2007 at 6:32 pm

    In addition to the fact that I’m a Phillies fan, so you can stop with the Red Sox obsession. I’m not bringing that to the argument, but rather, until two days ago, I was one of the biggest Pettitte fans around. Clemens I always suspected anyhow, and to be honest when Grimsley came out, I really believed Pettite’s denial, and now I feel more like a fool than before. It’s not the HGH that is the bad part, it’s the forced apology now. It’s spineless.

  393. Bill Clinton December 15th, 2007 at 6:33 pm

    Thank you for bringing some common sense to this board, Nick.

  394. Doreen December 15th, 2007 at 7:56 pm

    I had hoped it wasn’t true about Andy, but, that said, I am very that he just ‘fessed up. It is better that he made his statement rather than have to read the endless speculation.

    Jennifer –

    I am glad I am not the only one who, in reading the report, felt he/she was reading the same thing more than once and sometimes even more than twice.

    Also, there’s an awful lot of reference to previously published works (Game of Shadows, Juiced, and newspaper reports, for instance). All are properly footnoted, it should be noted.

    Maybe more players will speak up for themselves and we’ll be able to separate the wheat from the chaff a little better, because right now, the report, or the list of names, makes it seem like everyone is equal in their use of PEDs.

  395. mary ellen December 15th, 2007 at 8:03 pm

    Wow, Bill Clinton or Brian, I sure hope nobody in your life ever makes a mistake – I guess they would be dead to you????

  396. Sandman December 15th, 2007 at 8:14 pm

    Mistake Okay but don’t sign a $16 million contract 2 days before you know your name is gonna be on a report on HGH.

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