Take the poll: Still a Pettitte fan?
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Dec 15, 2007 
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Take the poll over to the right. Has your opinion on Andy Pettitte changed now that he has admitted to using human growth hormone?
It will be interesting to see how many more players step forward and admit their guilt. Pettitte has a lot of respect in the game and many could follow his example.
For somebody in the public eye, it’s always better to deal with bad news quickly than to let it linger. By acting now, Pettitte will drive the story into the background by the time spring training starts.
Unless he gets suspended.
He can’t be suspended. It wasn’t illegal or against Major League rules at the time. The union would cream them in court.
100%
I still love Andy Pettitte. He will always be a Yankee Warrior! IN ANDY I TRUST!!!!!
Poll looks like a landslide thus far, Pete =)
Well Paul Byrd didn’t get suspended, so why would Andy? Both of them handled this situation very admirably as far as I am concerned. You want to talk about cheaters, isn’t Mitchell the real cheater here? Exploiting his position to try and squelch the competition? Who’s REALLY trying to “gain the competitive advantage” here?
Hopefully when this is all said and done, the majority of the public will remember guys like Pettitte and Byrd as good people who made a bad decision but took full responsibility for it, and Mitchell, Selig and their cronies as the opportunistic dirtbags they are.
Except for hypocritical and sanctimonious people and trolls, who wouldn’t support Pettitte on this, 100%
The truth of the matter is that the 85 names in the Mitchell report are likely but a drop in the bucket compared to the real number of players using PEDs during the 90′s and early 00′s. To single out and blast or condem Andy and Roger simply because they were among the few named is ludicrous. Either condemn the entire sport (players, owners, and the media that ignored this for a decade) or forgive all and move on.
Guy has a great moral character, admitted to using a substance to rehab (not to cheat) in 2002, when it wasn’t illegal, says he accepts responsibility for those two days. He still gets my vote of confidence
I’m sure the owners are steaming that a player like Pettitte would do something illegal to try to aid in healing an injury.
The correct way is to let the injury heal in time. Don’t push yourself. You are getting paid whether you are on the DL or mot. Don’t worry about the peer pressure of not being there for your teammates.
In other words – do a Carl Pavano.
I knew Andy would apologize to the fans. I’m behind him 100 percent.
I see the 3 trolls voted.
100% still a fan.
Did he take the HGH the same year he pitched with the terrible elbow pain where his fastball topped out at 82 mph because he didn’t want to let down his teammates after signing the big contract?
Who cares about 2 days, 2 days doesn’t do anything to heal, edge or anything. It was like drinking 1 beer!!!!
HAIL TO ANDY FOR COMING BACK!!!
YANKEES 2008!!!
Phil: Was that year 2002?
i think pettitte should sue the mlb for defamation just like clemens should…. whats that, pettitte admitted? never mind. the mitchell report is still bogus, right?
Phil, that was 2004 with the Astros.
Long time reader of the blog, first time poster. Full support for Andy Pettitte, I believe Andy when he says he tried it twice while coming back from injury. His use of HGH to speed up recovery if no worse than a certain pitcher who does everything in his power NOT to step on the field. I’m sure Andy started regretting his decision immediately, I probably break the law more times in 1 month than he has in his entire life.
When will Mitchell and the Red Sox follow Andy’s lead and come clean?
Phil
December 15th, 2007 at 7:42 pm
Did he take the HGH the same year he pitched with the terrible elbow pain where his fastball topped out at 82 mph because he didn’t want to let down his teammates after signing the big contract?
___________________________________________________
The shots were taken in 2002 when with the Yanks. He had a severe forearm strain (usually a precursor to TJ). He was on the DL about 2 months. He started in 22 games that year. 2004, with Houston is when the elbow blew out, on a check swing in his first game, I think.
38HotDogs, your name is amazing.
Andy did his well respected part in owning up any mistakes he made.
Will the Commissioner play his part in failing to own up to the sport he has control of by looking the other way for so long and all for the sake putting a$$e$ in seats ? Don’t count on it. He lacks the spine to do it. Therein lies the real culprit.
I was shocked that he was on the list. I’m not shocked he fessed up. He’s a stand up guy that made a mistake, big friggin’ deal. Nobody’s perfect.
DaninIowa…… I’m in S.E. part of state. Where ya from and how much snow and ice you have now?
Rich
December 15th, 2007 at 7:46 pm
i think pettitte should sue the mlb for defamation just like clemens should…. whats that, pettitte admitted? never mind. the mitchell report is still bogus, right?
_______________________________________________________
Pettitte’s admission in no way legitimizes the way this thing was handled from the start. In two years, investigators never bothered to visit any other cities. A great way to gather information, huh? Just sit and wait for it to come to you. It’s no wonder that of the 3-4000 players in 10 years there was only 80 names. Half from the city Mitchell was headquartered in. Then to pass off the crap “Well, I gave them e-mails from the Boston team. I didn’t get that from NY.”. That was Mitchell’s way of telling people how fair and impartial he was. That was pathetic. He only gave them something to whitewash the view.
38hotdogs,
I agree man, awesome name.
I am still an Andy fan!
I’m with Andy all the way.
He did nothing wrong.
It is the duty of a ball player to try and get back to work as soon as possible. That’s what he did.
That was not enough HGH to enhance performance and if Mitchell was not out to get the Yankees he would have acknowledged that.
Selig and Mitchell are the bad guys. Selig paid $20 million for a report that a few journalists could do in a matter of days. It was a bribe.
With the All Star game being at the Stadium in 2008, it’s likely we’ll hear the weak as a kitten Commissioner give his usual horseshyt speech about the state of the game.
It’s then that he should hear a tremendously loud chorus of Bronx cheers like never before heard.
Waiting for the beat reporters – any of them, all of them – to start fessing up for totally ignoring the biggest story of their careers. Wink wink, ha ha. Easier to dig up a story about a soldier gone wrong in Iraq than a widespread PED problem with hundreds of athletes you’re up close & personal with hundreds of hours a year? Right.
Time to stop pretending you’re journalists and admit you’re part of the great baseball PR machine. It’s all just entertainment after all.
Stupid question Pete – there is NOTHING TO FORGIVE. Pettitte is, was, and always will be the man. I still like Clemens as well. These guys gave Yankee fans their heart and soul time and again. It’s the self-righteous media who we should all despise. Members of the media aspire to be the village idiot. I’d rather have Roger Clemens following me out of a fox hole any day as opposed to sport media morons like Mike Lupica.
I have not read the report.
Am I to understand that Mr. Mitchell had extensive interviews with the Yankees & Mets “towel boys/trainers” and no other people of similar positions with other baseball teams ???
Mr. Mitchell is on the ‘Board of Directors” of the Boston Red Sox ???
If these above questions are relatively true; the names disclosed may be accurate…..but the giant 300 pound Panda Bear sitting in the corner will always remind everyone of the obvious bias….
and the blatant and calculated avoidance of interviewing Boston (or Arizona or whatever team) waterboys/trainers !!!
I find it rather humorous that a writer takes objections to Pettitte’s remarks about the things written in the papers, constantly using steroids in place of HGH…mainly because steroids is sexier to type and sells better. Reporters need to get off their high horses. What about all of the tv reports and the rags, along with news websites that plastered names of players everywhere, because they were more worried about being outscouped than being accurate. Wonder how many names, careers and reputations were crushed by the irresponsible jerks that did that? I wonder how many of those “Knights Of The Keyboards” will make personal and public apologies? My guess is NONE.
Do I forgive Andy – abso-f-ng-lutely!
Nice language Mary Ellen. Where did you learn that ? At the Stadium
yup
O.K…why is it that we have to “forgive” him? For something that was technically not against the rules?? He did what was classy and honorable to explain to us fans and could have chosen a myriad of different ways to respond that would have been less effective and respectful.
As Pete said, with this quick resolution, it will hopefully be a faint memory once spring training starts again.
Let’s just hope Roger figures out a way to address this so he can move forward as well…
YES
YES
YES
YES
A tale of two players.
One takes some HGH to try and heal a little faster when he is on the disabled list and is made out to be a criminal.
The other gets injected with a pain killer, risking permanent damage to his ankle, then he goes out and pitches with the blood flowing from it and is made out to be an example for our youth.
Actually, Joe B, I learned it at Fenway. Sorry if I offended you.
Two wrongs don’t make a right.
I found nothing wrong with his statement. If he owed us an explanation, that’s what we received: What he did and why. It was an explanation, not an attempt at an excuse.
I have more respect for Andy Pettitte now than I did before, and I’m sorry that the skunk Mitchell had to stuff him in the same locker with such as Canseco and Bonds. This was a sick process.
One thing is for sure Roger Clemens is pretty much screwed. And his best friend Andy pretty much sealed the deal for him.
Mary Ellen. I could care less where you learned it. It’s where you use it. Kids read these articles too.
were the same as san fran fans who support bonds. we also support our cheaters (giambi, clemens, pettitte)
I think it’s a bad decision by Andy Pettite to admit he took HGH. There is no way MLB would have proved he took HGH. And he threw his best buddy for life Roer Clemens under the bus.
Andy still rocks.
$50 that mary ellen could kick joe b.’ s butt.
Andy’s confession proves nothing about the Rocket. For someone to assert definitely that it did is a case of operating from the same mindset that gave us the Mitchell/BoSox Report and the fake list of names, which probably came from Mitchell as well. (It is his MO.)
[NOTE: The Mitchell/Bosox & Rocket assumptions are based on minds wandering. The statement I just made about Mitchell comes from decades of observing the man in action.]
I wasn’t kidding when I said I’m sorry if I offended you – Joe B. As for kids reading here, they wouldn’t know what I meant unless they already knew it – got it? So with that said, I repeat – I support Andy, I think it’s unfair that the report named players without hard evidence and if Pettitte or any of the others wanted to, they could deny, deny, deny. He wanted to move forward and acknowledge he made a mistake in judgment. Now let’s see if any others do the same.
Andy is a cheat, but at least he’s not a cheat and a liar like his pal Roger.
And, more importantly,he’s not an immature troll.
Still a fan
It can’t be cheating if the rules of the game weren’t violated
Besides, I’m one of those who believe that at least half of the league’s consuming one controlled substance or another all the time
For example, you’ve heard the stories of amphetamines/greenies being so casually available in the clubhouses in the past, right? They got banned by the MLB in 2006, but one should remember that amphetamines are a schedule III controlled substance (schedule II back in the 1970 version of the act, I believe). Guess what else is a schedule III controlled substance now? Anabolic steroids
Randy..I always thought you were a betting man. Put your money where your mouth is. And you know where I mean.
I hope no one here ever says anything negative about SF Giant fans.
If we bought “Slap Happy Big Pappi’s” batting gloves on ebay….
…could we detect steroids/HGH if we found a scientist to analyze the lunger absorbed in them ???
I betcha while watching news of Andy’s admission in his living room, Roger Clemens threw a broken barrel of a bat at his wife as she walked across the room.
A statement can be expected from Clemens soon enough. Usage or not, Andy Pettitte will not likely play long enough to put up HOF numbers but Roger was expected to be a 1st ballot Hall of Famer.
With so much at stake, Clemens will have much more to say and with some legal tones. He just won’t fade away like a Mark McGwire.
If George Mitchell wanted to be a household name, he went about it entirely wrong. In the Commissioner’s case, flat out shameful. He swept the problem under a rug for his duration and he’s now being exposed for it. His legacy will treat him as a great procrastinator.
nypd113th-
since cops are among the problem professions for using steroids, what did you do personally do to clean up your profession?
or did you just look the other way?
isn’t that illegal?
Bad poll, Pete.
How about a choice along the lines of:
“The admission has no relevance to me. I’m still a Pettitte fan.”
I’m no longer a Pettitte fan because of this.
I root for David ortiz from now on.
Gunther Toody
Did Lugo attend Ike Turner’s funeral?
Gunther Toody
Has Julio Lugo smashed his wife’s head through the windshield lately?
Sorry but I’ve killed Bonds way too long to turn the other cheek on Pettitte, even if he’s a Yankee.
Option for 3.
I’ve lost some respect for him but I’ll still root.
If HGH wasnt banned in 2002,then how is Andy a cheater???
If what he says is true,and being that he is a Christian,I will believe him,then he was trying to get better,physically for the good of his team.
Maybe Pavano should have tried it!
So I fully forgive Andy for error in judgement.
But comend him for honesty and putting the team first.
Interesting article on the media’s willfull ignorance of the growing steroid problem in the last 20 years:
http://www.editorandpublisher......1003685221
Andy did exactly the right thing today, and I remain a big fan.
car 54 where are you?
Pettitte is now my favorite player.
DOWN WITH SELIG!!!!
DOWN WITH MITCHELL!!!
Those incompetent morons have got to go. What a sham of a report!
I want their heads on a stick.
CONFLICT OF INTEREST ANYONE?!?!?!?!
This ranks right up there with Colin Powell’s 2003 Powerpoint presentation to the UN of Adobe Illustrator files showing Iraqi WMD’s in trailers!
And to all you idiot Boston Red Sox trolls on this board, it’s nice to see that your team’s well-deserved success still hasn’t enabled you to pull your heads out of your collective ass. An amazing team is completely wasted on idiot fans like yourselves.
Nobody in this game is clean. Nobody on this board is clean.
I’m sorry to get political here, but since everyone is getting so moralistic, it must be said:
If you are so outraged that players lied about taking steroids and think it must cost them their jobs or chances at the Hall of Fame, then why stop there? Why don’t you all stop paying taxes to fund a war that is based on LIES!!!!???!!???!!! Not faulty intelligence…LIES. Why do the government officials responsible still have jobs?
There was no reason to name names. This report just aimed to infantilize and ruin certain players while not addressing baseball’s own lack of foresight in setting laws or regulations before a problem of this proportion arose.
MLB should now stand for Moronic League Baseball.
NYPD
In spite of you being a Sox fan, I will give you credit for that hilarious comment. I am still laughing ten minutes later.
Admitting his errors in judgment makes him a bigger role model, in my eyes!
Peter I think it’s unfair to judge any of the players of the Selig era and probably prior to that. Everyone including baseball (Union and MLB) itself has been looking for “an edge†from bringing the walls in to produce more homeruns to not doing the needed testing ages ago. Baseball turned a deaf ear to Ken Caminiti who said steroid use was prevalent in the MLB, Barry Bonds or Roger Clemens didn’t invent or deal steroids, they just followed what everyone else was doing. Everyone else was getting away with it; I mean did Rafael Palimero look juiced? No and he would have never been questioned and would have eventually made into the Hall of Fame if he hadn’t been caught. Yet, guys who never failed a test but look as if they may have are scrutinized as the only culprits.
I find it funny that writers are saying that they wouldn’t admit Bonds or Clemens to the Hall of Fame because of the criteria of playing the game clean, when the game of this era allowed them by rules to do what they did, meanwhile a guy like Gaylord Perry who told everyone he cheated and showed them how he cheated is in and a Guy like Sandy Koufax who was not only taking Codeine the night before and during games to get “an edge†also took Butazolidin which was a horse tranquilizer to keep his pain down. (Got that from an SI article).
I blame the union and the commissioner for not doing anything, but never the players. The asterisk belongs on the era and if we ban players from the HOF you would have to ban them all from here on. Cause guys who have passed the test are supposed to be on it and guys like Palmiero or Guillermo Mota who don’t look they are on it are failing the tests.
My favourite paragraph from that article: “But then a funny thing happened: Instead of being praised for discovering a questionable act by a baseball star in the middle of a record-breaking season, Wilstein was vilified. Other sportswriters didn’t pick up the story or dig into what McGwire or Sosa were using as they pursued the historic home run mark. “After I reported it, people still didn’t want to believe it, and it was so important,” Wilstein, recently retired, tells E&P. “It may be that ‘andro’ was not the only thing he was doing. It probably put a little pressure on other baseball writers because it threatened the sport they loved and required them to write about something that they probably did not want to write about.”
“
I’m a Sox fan, but always saw Pettitte as a classy competitor. I fully accept the explanation that at one time in his career, he let his competitive nature get the best of him and used HGH to get back on the field and justify his salary. Maybe his apology was couched with too many “Ifs,” but it’s just so damn refreshing to hear someone of his stature confess, instead of hiding behind an army of lawyers.
(I put this in another thread) I am almost certain that there are scores (if not hundreds) of players that have tried HGH and/or ‘roids under the same circumstances — not the hardcore users — but competitive hounds like AP, that tried it during a hard stretch or a tough season. Most of them were not snagged in the Mitchell net, but it would be so damn great if those players just stood up alongside Pettitte and just owned up, voluntarily. It would be a scenario reminiscent of the “I AM SPARTACUS” scene from the movie.
And you know what… I bet the public would not only forgive them, but many would laud them for being so forthcoming. And then they wouldn’t have to live the rest of their lives waiting for some embittered teammate or clubhouse boy outing them in some tell-tale book.
I would hope that the Players Union would approach Selig for some kind of amnesty period for those that turned themselves in and made it public. Then mlb could turn its attention towards the remaining hard-core users that for some reason can’t live without PEDs.
I’m usually a cynic, but I have a dream….
<rant> Bravo to Andy Pettitte. This is an absolute witch hunt against the small percentage of names that could actually be obtained regarding those who used performance enhancing substances. Not being on the list does not exonerate you. Nobody is exonerated. David Ortiz and Curt Schilling aren’t on the list — does this mean they didn’t do steroids or use HGH ??? Of course, not. So let’s cut the crap of publicly tarring and feathering these guys who are human beings and have made mistakes. Particularly those with the courage of an Andy Pettitte, to come forward, and fully admit to the entire story.
The Mitchell Report had a purpose. Bud Selig completely missed the purpose. This is about fixing the game for the better of the FUTURE !!! The names were listed to show SOME examples of steroid/HGH use from the EXTREMELY LIMITED data that Mitchell could obtain (due to players, who were advised by their lawyers not to come forward on the issue). It’s not about even remotely considering punishing these guys who were mentioned in the report, because it’s just a SMALL SAMPLE SIZE of the actual incidents. If Mitchell had been able to obtain all of the data (which only a super human being could actually do, you may have heard of him, his birthday is coming up soon…) then the report would have likely been 4000 pages, not 400.
The public crucifixion of these guys right now is disgusting. It’s a by product of an ESPN world trying to focus the story on the individuals, the big names, the ROGAH Clemens, the Yankees, WHAT SELLS !!! It needs to be focused more on the big picture. </rant>
And Gagne signs a 10 miilion dollar deal with The Brewers which is Bud’s old team knowing he was juiced when he threw for the Dodgers…..Doesn’t Bud’s daughter now own the theam ?????….Andy Pettite will be old news in a few days, and there’s nothing that he did that should question his integrity…..Did Mitchell even question his own clubhouse ?????
Andy is not just the backbone of the rotation, but also the backbone of what this team had back in the late 90′s. Always root for Pettitte!
Still behind Andy 100% – he is truly a good guy who made a bad choice. No one is perfect.
Whatever beef you have with the Mitchell Report is fine but
Andy did do something wrong.
You can call it a lapse in judgement, or trying to get himself back on the field for his team or whatever you want but he said he knew it was wrong and that’s why he stopped.
As a Yankee fan, I appreciate him not compounding the situation by lying about it. The cover up is always worse than the crime.
Remember how forgiving you feel tonight the next time a player whether it be a Yankee or not finds himself in the same situation.
I have to wonder if the feds who nailed Radomski also have gotten information about the supplier to him up the food chain. I really hope at some point other names come out. It’s like the investigative reporters in the sports business are too busy speculating trades with an entire illegal steroids business operating right out in the open under their noses.
Mark Attanasio is now the owner of the brewers, but it doesn’t change the irony that gagne signs with selig’s old team.
Andy used it to get back on the mound to help his teammates because (listen up Pavano) he felt a strong sense of responsibility to contribute to the team. He used it for this purpose only, not to get an advantage when on the mound. Even so he has clearly quickly regretted it and stopped the treatment. It was a silly thing to do, but to put it in the same category as Bonds, Canseco et al, is just wrong.
Clearly Mitchell wasn’t getting the results he had hoped for when he began his investigation so felt the need to include cases like this, which is not part of the problem he was supposed to be investigating – that of players habitually misusing substances to gain a competitive advantage over their opponents.
It is the baseball equivalent of congress publishing a report from a multi million dollar, 3 year study into drug abuse in American society and including a chapter which points the finger at a respected family man for once smoking a joint in college. Nothing to do with the problem or the solution, just a chance to pad out a clearly ineffectual investigation with a big name.
Furthermore I think it is a sign of Pettitte’s honesty that he has confirmed the report, which he could easily have lied about. It is sad it might be something he is remembered for because as far as character and integrity go, he is head and shoulders above most athletes in baseball or any sport. He should still be considered a great role model for any young athlete.
PETTITTE DID NOT CHEAT
But Pavano would have to had taken a shot in the bruised buttocks.
Pettitte is a cheater.Yes SElig sucks and the Mitchell report sucks.
But no matter how the Great Pete Blogger,and any other Pettitte worshipper like to admit Pettitte is a cheater.
Why do you hear all these Santana talks start to come up now.
“The LEGEND is coming”
That is so true THATWasMe!!!
My prediction:on Monday morning, Clemens will make a tearful public statement on the Today Show, with legions of children behind him.
After a long, rambling speech about bat handles and spiders, he will say:
“In hindsight, I know that I wouldn’t have taken Performance Enhancing Drugs…if I’d only been given Performance Enhancing Hugs.”
The entire studio will go “Awwwwww…..” as the children applaud and Roger goes to hug them all.
Across America, corporate workers, scientists, zookeepers, white water rafters, charlatans, everyone stops what they are doing to hug. Suddenly, when they return to their tasks they find that they have an edge! They are doing their jobs as never before! Riveting faster! Writing better! Speaking fluenter! Everyone is better!
Roger Clemens is then credited not only with saving the game of baseball, but with saving himanity.
Would you feel the same way if it were Ortiz? or Beckett?
Geez, yesterday posters were saying somebody should put a bullet in the back of Jose Canseco’s head. Not a word of protest about that. But Mary Ellen uses a little self-censored foul language and joe b is flipping out. It’s not Fenway or Yankee Stadium where she learned it. It’s a Sex and the City catch phrase, and I thought it was funny. A lot funnier than joking about killing somebody, which is worse for kids to read than what she wrote (or more correctly, what she alluded to but didn’t actually write). As for Andy, I believe him. I think the report is a joke. Either name everybody or nobody. Obviously, he had mostly Yankees and Mets because that’s where his sources were from. Ridiculous.
Actually, another strength and conditioning coach, minor league S&C coach for the LA Dodgers, was cited in the report as well. He was said to have supplied steroids to LoDuca and 4 others (I’m too tired right now to go back to the report to look it up), and also to have used them himself in the company of the players. I guess he was mentioned because of a Radomski connection.
“Would you feel the same way if it were Ortiz? or Beckett?”
Hey, as long as the rules of the game allowed it at the time of the usage…
(I sure as hell put most of the blame for this stuff on Selig
)
yes, the poll is nothing more than a push poll.
you can’t help but give a negative answer. typical.
Thought Pettitte’s response was sincere. He should not get suspended, for he realized his mistake in 2002, stopped the HGH and apologized now.
If Michael Vick had come out last spring and done the same thing, and told the commissioner that he was sorry, it’s likely that he wouldn’t be in jail.
Clemens has a bigger dilemma. Did he indeed do anaabolic steroids, and how does he feel now that his friend Andy owned up to his mistake?
I do take Pete’s point about healing faster giving you a competitive edge, but any medication is basically a drug. Other medications which promote faster healing aren’t considered cheating so why is this one? Not because HGH and steroids (a commonly prescribed drug to help the body heal from injuries) are not great treatments when used properly, but because of their misuse on players who are not injured.
I think MLB has to look at it’s policies for what is acceptable treatment for injuries and guidelines for declaring treatments, so that there isn’t a grey area for cases like this and the more suspicious case of Paul Byrd. Blurred lines of what is acceptable encourage people to bend the rules and use excuses. Lets get clarity and lets have MLB spell it out to every player.
But if properly declared and documented, if steroids are the best course of treatment (though obviously not from your trainer) for an injury of condition, then MLB have to have a better procedure for assessing and allowing their controlled use. Athletes shouldn’t be denied the chance to get back to work quicker just because Barry Bonds is an idiot. Making it more transparent will eliminate the imbalance between players using HGH to recover and those who don’t.
“Gunther Toody
Has Julio Lugo smashed his wife’s head through the windshield lately?”
– OH NOW THAT’S IT, NOW YOU’VE DONE IT.!!!!!!!!!!
Pete, I respectfully request you ban ThatWasMe forthwith!!!!
You’ve crossed the line ThatWasMe.
Mock me, mock my profession, ridicule my family, make fun of my girlfriend, but DON’T EVER, EVER, make a joke about Julio Lugo!
You hit a nerve pal!
LMAO!
I still support Andy Pettitte, would have supported him had he still be on the Astros at the time the report was released. However, I think it would be presumptuous of me to “forgive” him.
As for the use of the word “if,” a lot of people use the word “if” in an apology as a throwaway word, not a qualifier. There’s no real way of knowing how Andy intended to use the word without asking him, but I think the sentiment of his statement speaks for itself.
And as to the statement that he didn’t use the HGH to get a competitive edge, I suppose that’s in the mind of the beholder. Perhaps that’s how he justified to himself at the time his decision to use it. In any event, it’s clear he through the statement that he regretted it and did not continue using it, and regrets doing so.
I don’t believe he should be suspended, since the punishment has to be in line with what would have been done at the time of the infringement. And HGH was not a named banned substance at the time. However, Pete is correct that using prescription drugs without a prescription was not allowed, so I supposed MLB could get technical and make an example of Pettitte.
I’m a Sox fan, but I must admit that rather than saying I still respect Pettite I really think my respect for him has increased. Not because he briefly used HGH, but because he gave a very straight forward answer surrounding the circumstances of his use of HGH I believe he was being entirely truthful. There is wide difference in how such a person should be treated and the player who habitually used some substance and is now attempting to cover it up (and that is not meant as a veiled reference to Clemens).
ray said:
[There is wide difference in how such a person should be treated and the player who habitually used some substance and is now attempting to cover it up (and that is not meant as a veiled reference to Clemens]
Let me take the veil off.
If McNamee’s allegations are true, then what Clemens did is really disgusting. By the time Clemens is reported to have started using steroids, he was already a HOF candidate, a 4 time CY winner and recognized as one of the best of his era. But not content with that, he stands accused of using steroids to be recognized as the greatest pitcher since the end of the deadball era in 1920. If true, Roger is nothing less than a GLUTTON.
Love him, no hard feelings whatsoever.
Clemens had a decent year in 1997 and won a CY Young. He was accused for the 1998 year.
Clemens being caught by Mitchell tops the World Series for Sox fans, who have always been bitter at Clemens for his success in Toronto after being let go and then of course his time with the Yankees. They are all overjoyed with the Mitchell report. Christmas came early in Boston.
The only thing that could have made the story any better in Boston would have had George Steinbrenner injecting Clemens and Pettitte. But this will do.
Doreen:
“Pete is correct that using prescription drugs without a prescription was not allowed, so I supposed MLB could get technical and make an example of Pettitte.”
I realize you are trying to be completely fair about this (and I admire you for doing so). So this is not a knock on your comment. But we don’t have to bend over backward to be fair to Selig or MLB or the rules.
MLB can’t punish players for 5 year old, technical violations of prescription drug rules they haven’t enforced proactively or consistently for ten, twenty, thirty years or more. Singling out Pettitte for something like this would be arbitrary, vindictive and petty. I also seriously doubt that a 5 year old act can be the subject of disciplinary action under the CBA; it’s time barred. Moreover, MLB will be reluctant to bring a disciplinary action against someone on the Mitchell list that they are surely going to lose in arbitration. Nor should they. The right to punish presupposes a right to the moral high ground and a lack of complicity in the act to be punished. If the Mitchell report said anything it was the fact that the blame belonged to everyone, including the commissioner’s office.
YES WE BEAT THE NETS !!!!!!!
[Clemens being caught by Mitchell tops the World Series for Sox fans, who have always been bitter at Clemens for his success in Toronto after being let go and then of course his time with the Yankees]
You think you can speak for Sox fans? I think you only speak for yourself. I guess if Ortiz ahd been caught by Mitchell, then that would have made up for not winning a WS since Ortiz’ arrival in 2003. But that’s just you.
Clemens’ alleged use should be an outrage to baseball fans. Until Thursday, I thought he had legitimately amassed the greatest pitching career in the live ball era. If these allegations hold up, then I owe an apology to Steve Carlton, Jim Palmer, Fergusen Jenkins, Tom Seaver, Warren Spahn, Lefty Grove and a few others.
YES !!!!
my question is this. David justice said recently that mcnamee presented hgh to him as something he knew a whole lot about and it would speed up his recovery from injury. David said if it was pill form he would have 100% taken it giving the information that was given from mcnamee. Is there any chance mcnamee came to pettite in the same situation. Almost making it too good to refuse to someone who is injured?
I know a lot of Sox fans, and a few on this site who espouse the opinion I documented.
Yes and I do suspect Ortiz.
this per Mitchell Report: pages 8 and 9
“A number of studies have shown that use of human growth hormone does not increase muscle strength in healthy subjects or well-trained athletes.31 Athletes who have tried human growth hormone as a training aid have reached the same conclusion. The author of one book targeted at steroid abusers observed that “[t]he most curious aspect of the whole situation is that I’ve never encountered any athlete using HGH to benefit from it, and all the athletes who admit to having used it will usually agree: it didn’t/doesn’t work for them. …because human growth hormone stimulates growth in most body tissues, athletes use it to promote tissue repair and to recover from injury”
Page 223 and 224
“According to McNamee, during the 2001-02 offseason, Pettitte asked him about human growth hormone. McNamee said that he discouraged Pettitte from using human growth hormone at that time.”…
From April 21 to June 14, 2002, Pettitte was on the disabled list with elbow
tendonitis. McNamee said that Pettitte called him while Pettitte was rehabilitating his elbow
in Tampa, where the Yankees have a facility, and asked again about human growth hormone.
Pettitte stated that he wanted to speed his recovery and help his team.”
murphydog -
I certainly hope that you are correct. My gut feeling is also that they will not do anything to Pettitte. Actually, they should go out of their way to commend him, but that’s a pipe dream, for sure.
I do try to see as many sides as I am capable of seeing, but sometimes all that does is make me dizzy.
ThatWasMe
You don’t speak for this Sox fan.
Of course, Pettitte rocks. But I will never be a fan of people who think it’s a good use of time to do their utterly uninsightful moralizing over things that are strikingly self evident.
yes a fan.
Ouch!
Those BKYN Dominicans don’t wear “wife-beaters” for nothing.
Lugo doesn’t represent all Dominicans, just the weird ones like that Mariner pitcher I can’t remember
Yes. I’m still a Pettitte fan.
In fact, I’m more concerned about those missing CIA tapes.
Everybody needs to take a breath and relax…I could care less how much steroids Pettite did or didn’t do. I feel the same way about Barry Bonds…I do not understand why people hold baseball and its players to such a ridiculously high standard.
The naivity displayed by people is absolutely astonishing. BASEBALL is ENTERTAINMENT…nothing more…nothing less…That nostalgia crap they sell us on is designed for one thing…to make money…the sports figures of today serve the same purpose that Will Smith or Tom Cruise does…they are there to ENTERTAIN YOU. How foolish would someone look starting a poll asking whether teenagers still liked Brittany Spears after all the problems she has had. You would get laughed out of the room. Everyone would say “Britany Spears” is just a hollywood entertainer…they all do drugs”
Guess what folks…you have to apply the same logic to your sports stars.
The only disgraceful thing is the way these sanctimonious journalists (THAT MEANS YOU PETE) who owe their livlihood to the very stars they are now judging are getting on their high horse and attempting to pass judgement.
Pete, you and your ilk should take a look in the mirror before you pass judgement on anyone else. You, Buster Olney, Peter Gammons etc, owe the american public an apology. You were all jumping on that steroid bandwagon and rode it to untold wealth and fame (in fact Pete is doing it right now…this blog is a springboard for other lucrative financial opportunities)
No one in the press said boo when McGuire and Sosa was breaking records, When Clemens and Pettite went to the Astros you guys could not stop talking about what great pitchers they were. No one questioned shit…you know why…because circulation and/or eyeballs were up…cant stop the gravy train.
Everybody got what they wanted…owners, jounalists, players made a ton of money…and the fans got what they wanted as well…they were entertained. This sanctimoniuous bs has got to stop.
I work in an industry were people lie all the time to get what they want…thats the way it goes.
If Red Sox fans are bothering you just tell them what I do
“You’re right the whole team was on drugs…and we still won 4/5 , go f*** yourself loser”
another response is “You’re right and you know what AROD is still juicing and MLB will never go after…I wonder how many game winning home runs he’ll hit against Papelbon in ’08″ They go vrazy when I say that.
Andy doesn’t owe anyone anything…he’s given us everything he had everytime he went out on the field.
NYPD113th
It’s truly sad. You can’t get over your Rocket-crush. Maybe you should try one of those dating sites.
And don’t know why cops are so bitter over the Kerik indictments. I’m sure “da pad” will continue.
east side yankee-
LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!!
Clemens took the biggest hit from the Mitchell Report on Dec 13th 2007.
Clemens took an even bigger hit on Dec 15th with Pettite admitting to using HGH just 2 days after Clemens denied using Steroids. Now he is a not only cheater for taking steroids he now a LIAR.
Frosty:
Dude, I’m a huge Brittney fan…just using her as an example : )
Yankee fans need to take a collective ex-lax. If some silly fan in Boston/Queens/Wherever has some fantasy that steroids is the reason the Yanks wonhas not touched his/her team, so be it…Whatever gets you to sleep at night.
Every one is specualting if Andy will be suspended.
What about Giambi? He admittedd to Steroid use. will he be supended?
Brandon-
I don’t know which is worse, Lugo slamming his wife into window shield (brooklyn style) or Lugo failing to run out that grounder (manny style) in late September??
What about Giambi? He admittedd to Steroid use. will he be supended?
we can only hope!
Frosty-
that was cold blooded
When are sportswriters gonna expose Manny for eating baby ducks and Papi for using Soylent Greenâ„¢ ???
Brandon-
The Mariner pitcher you are thinking of is Julio Mateo.
IMO Andy will always be loved by real Yankees fans, so I still love him. BTW…will we be taking a big risk by signing Prior for one year?
It’s people !!! It’s people !!!
we haven’t signed Prior yet, and it would be for a minor league contract especially w/ those injury question marks
blah blah blah more pointless debating
blah blah blah blah more pointless debating
blah blah blah blah blah more pointless debating
Duh. You need a poll for this?
Simple, even Pettitte can still bring it to the mound next year, I’m his biggest fan; otherwise, not.
thanks Buddy, apparently both were taught women were punching bags, well in Mateo’s case a chew toy and they both are named Julio too
Why can’t Hank top thinkin bout Santana…does he know umthin bout Hughes that we don’t? Maybe about Hughes health? Whatever it is we NEED the trio in order for us to become a dynasty within the next 10 yrs. We should have 30 rings by 2015.
all he said was the door is still open, really we’re probably making more of it, for some reason I think Santana might end up a Met IDK why but I get that feeling
Until MLB catches each and every one of those who used PEDs, then no one should be suspended.
I suspect many Red Sox players are laughing about how good it was that Mitchell, their own board member, kept them from being outed while he took it to the Yankees.
Mitchell is a slime bag politician who threw in a little garbage piece of email while he could have and should have been able to open any doors within his own organization.
I am still waiting to see this question being asked of him. With his position on the Red Sox why was he unable to do anything with this investigation other than target NY teams. There is no excuse for it.
Mitchell, by his own admission felt he could go with any little allegation he got because it was a private investigation. Right. If this report of this private investigation is truly that, how is it that it was released to the public? Mitchell is a lawyer and knew very well what he was doing.
I’ve heard for a long time about Ortiz being suspected and that his “home town” talks about his juicing ways all the time. Why wasn’t this mentioned in the Mitchell report? Its about as legally valid as anything else he used to ruin reputations.
Mitchell is a slime bag who grabs credit for things over and above what he has actually accomplished. Think of it. Here is someone with credentials in the legal community using hearsay and rumors to condemn those players he feels like condemning. That is not honorable. But, oh, we can’t question his motives or drives to do this, after all he made the peace come about in Ireland. Even though the only people who could have possibly done that were the Irish themselves.
Mr. Pettitte only did what many would do to just keep performing, NOT enhance it. Another vote for Andy. I only wish Mickey Mantle would’ve had HGH, maybe then he might’ve been able to approach near 100% physical performance. Because for his entire athletic career, from age 17, he was hampered by injury & the damage of poliomyelitis.
Ted Williams had better eyesight than most humans, let alone your basic ballplayer. Should his records be discounted? he SURE had an edge. Today they’d make him wear a patch over one eye. . .. Can’t believe I’m using a Red Sox great to make a Yankee point
Hey! he got Scooter in the HOF. AND I don’t goof on legends.
Lugo hit his wife cuz he asked her who her favorite short-stop was n she said Jeter.
Maybe this was already posted, but look at this quote from tomorrow’s Newsday. It doesn’t make any sense to me and seems to weaken the Yankees negotiating position with the Twins.
“Steinbrenner was somewhat cryptic Saturday, saying: “It has nothing to do with their demands. It has to do with whether or not I want to do it. Their demands are not excessive. I don’t know if I want to give anything.”"
Here’s the link:
http://www.newsday.com/sports/.....0846.story
C’mon Brandon, cut the brothers some slack, you know those brooklyn Shiksas don’t listen and never stop running their mouths.
you talking about his girl or Lugo
maybe we can defrost Ted Williams and inject him with HGH.
speaking of which, if the Yanks sign mark Prior, I hope Andy kept some HGH in his frige.
just sayin.
Shiksa – yiddish for young Gentile woman (ie Dominican Dandies)
Frosty we need that for Carlos Pavano so we can trade him to the Mets
Sounds like a weekend on my block in Sunset Park (oh, there goes the sirens now)
more than ever!
Andy is and always has been, a stand-up guy.
If a rod would do the same would you guys defend him like you defend pettitte
ANDY STILL A GREAT PLAYER
A few thoughts:
To the people acting like taking HGH to recover from an injury is horribly wrong, you do realize that cortizone is steroid, yet is frequently given to players? The problem here isn’t taking it, it’s taking it without a prescription. If Pettitte had a doctor’s prescription, it would’ve been legal under both federal law and baseball’s rules.
Second, Pettitte didn’t get it from a random towel guy or anything like that. He got it from an athletic trainer good enough to be hired by the Yankees (and the Blue Jays before that). The guy wasn’t fired by the Yankees for anything related to his job performance. If someone directly employed by your team to condition you tells you you should take something, and describes it as something with no reason not to take it, wouldn’t you at least consider taking it? Sure, everyone knews all about steroids & their legality, but it’s not like HGH was something the average person knew about until drugs in sports became a huge issue in the past few years.
Finally, for the comments claiming Pettitte didn’t cheat because baseball didn’t ban it:
First, he talk a prescription drug without a prescription. That’s been against baseball’s rules since the 70′s.
Second, if something is illegal under federal law, it is automatically illegal in sports as well. For example, I seriously doubt the Olympic rules have a section against hiring hitmen, yet Tonya Harding clearly cheated, to say the least of her actions.
hgh is a prescription drug. taking hgh without the prescription is illegal. baseball does not condone doing anything illegal. so andy did wrong end of story. now that i’ve said that i must go next door to get some antibiotics from the neighbor. this bronchitis is terrible. sheesh.
Being an occasional lawbreaker in my past, I’m only concerned with motivation. Players such as Pettitte want to do their job to support their family & be a good teammate. Sure, part of wanting to KEEP playing in the bigs, involves ego. Without one, you don’t have a, pardon the expression, shot. . ..
Stealing food is wrong, but if a person steals food for themselves or their family, it’s not the same impetus as boosting a car. Would we be more able to forgive that, even though the legal system might not do so. Tonya Harding & her cronies were thugs, more like Michael Vick, their needs were fueled at the expense of another living creature’s life.
That’s Les Miserables is all about. ( BTW I’m referring to the original novel NOT a musical, though it is the source material )
Andy is a class competitor,a True Yankee. I’m behind him 100%.
Yes. What he did by all accounts was limited to a one time attempt to heal an injury to return to his natural playing ability. As opposed to the Bonds/Clemens accusations which was long term use which added to what they were capable of. Also, Pettite’s use was so limited that no benefit was ever obtained HGH needs to be used for more than 2 weeks.
From doing a little research on Wikipedia about HGH, it seems to be much more benign than steroids. It makes an athlete feel better sooner, so he can work harder. Amphetamines would gives a similar benefit. Whereas steroids actually build muscle and add strength regardless of whether you work out or not. If you do work out and take steroids, you will achieve size and strength not possible without them.
I am still a Pettitte fan, but don’t be fooled. He is not sorry for doing this. He is sorry he got caught. Did he forget about 2002 last winter when his name came up in the Jason Grimsley investigation? Here is his quote at that time.
“I’ve never used any drugs to enhance my performance in baseball. I don’t know what to say except that it’s embarrassing that my name would be out there.”
I am still a Pettitte fan but a lesser one. I was planning on buying a “46″ jersey, now I think I’ll get Posada or Joba.
But I do think Jesus would forgive Pettitte his sins for taking an illegal substance in 2002 and lying about it when news came out in 2006.
There may be cases when an individual is justified to break the law to get something to help him such as when author Richard Brookhiser bought marijuana to relieve his nausea
when he was fighting testicular cancer. Pettitte’s case isn’t one of them and he knows about it by lying to us and presumably the Yankees.
I’m behind Pettitte 100%! Always have and always will since 1995! He could have just as easily ignored/denied the accusation, but he chose to take it like a man. Furtehrmore, HGH was not a banned substance during the time of apparent use. Not to mention that the reason for use was to heal, not to gain the upperhand (not an exuse, just the facts).
Andy is one of the few in the game who has always carried himself with class and dignity. Any fool can see that he made a mistake, but at least he is owning up to it!
This directly from the Mitchell Report:
Human growth hormone is a prescription medication. It is illegal to issue a prescription for human growth hormone except for very limited purposes. Human growth hormone never has been approved for cosmetic or anti-aging uses, or to improve athletic performance. Issuing a prescription for human growth hormone for any of these unauthorized purposes is a violation of federal law.
Many have asserted that steroids and other performance enhancing substances were not banned in Major League Baseball before the 2002 Basic Agreement. This is not accurate. Beginning in 1971 and continuing today, Major League Baseball’s drug policy has prohibited the use of any prescription medication without a valid prescription
In fact, Andy has committed a Federal Offense by violating Federal Law – and he still needs a good lawyer.
To my mind, Pettitte didn’t answer the two most important questions the Mitchell Report posed.
1) Is he now or has ever been a member of the Communist Party.
2) Did he consort with the Devil? And/or has he ever practiced withcraft.
In the court of public opinion, a man is guilty before proven innocent.
I STILL LOVE ANDY!
That’s my word! He’s my man!
“And don’t know why cops are so bitter over the Kerik indictments”
Kerik? You kidding me?!
Both PD and Corrections alike were thrilled to see that POS go down.
“First, he talk a prescription drug without a prescription. That’s been against baseball’s rules since the 70’s.”
Any baseball player taking a greenie without prescription since 1970 would’ve violated US law, for that matter
Yes, that would be a lot of baseball players
Am I defending that? Not necessarily, just putting it out there as food for thought
I am a fan of Andy Pettitte.
I am also disappointed.
yes,100%fan
Annie Savoy… YOU GO GIRL!!!
I am amazed by how many Yankee fans know so much about steroids and HGH. I know the Yankee fans are supposed to be the smartest fans in the world. If you don’t believe me just ask them. However when a player obtains illegal drugs from a trainer without a prescription they are breaking the law. Petit had stated earlier that he never used any drugs when he was questioned about Jason Grimsley. But I guess he just forgot. RIGHT
of course i support andy.
Andy is cool with me. He shouldn’t have been singled out by George Mitchell, a paid member of the Boston Red Sox front office. He is obviously not alone with his HGH use.
Love Andy Pettitte. Period. Look at the poll results.
The issue should be the NY media (and this includes YOU Pete) not standing up for the NY-centric ness of the Report and not saying, “Wait a minute, this is just not fair.”
Andy’s been the only standup one that I can tell and that includes Mitchell, Selig and the NY media and all non-Yankee fans (and some blowhard Yankee fans who can’t this for what it is: a Yankee witch hunt.)
I can’t even believe a respectable beat writer would say “Unless he gets suspended.” There is no way to get suspended for this. Baseball did not ban HGH in 2002.
Andy Pettitte will always be one of my favorites, this doesn’t change anything for me whatsoever. not surprised how he handled the situation.
why can’t someone stand up to M. Lupica?
I am still an Andy supporter – he’s my second favorite Lefty – Guidry was amazing – and I am thrilled that he will be back. In fact, I was thinking of buying a couple of #46 jerseys just to show my support.
Using HGH was wrong, Andy should have gone to a doctor to check it out but remember McNamee is a former cop and a fitness trainer. It isn’t as if he went to some sleazy dealer (well, I guess in retrospect he is a sleazy dealer) he didn’t know and bought anabolic steroids – HGH is not the same as anabolic steroids. While we are now told that HGH doesn’t definitively effect healing I am not sure that was known in 2002 when he used it — I’m not even sure that it doesn’t have some beneficial effects –there seem to be an awful lot of people that think it does. Having said that it was illegal and therefore wrong – who among us haven’t done something wrong while trying to be good? Andy Pettitte is not a bad guy – I don’t think anyone thinks Andy is a bad person. Is anyone that tries something twice-that doesn’t hurt anyone else-bad?
How about you Pete, you’ve met Andy – think he’s a bad guy? I would rather have my kids know that a good person did something wrong and learned from it than to tell them all people that make mistakes are bad forever. It was illegal but not under baseball rules, therefore if Selig suspends him then he needs to suspend himself for 15 games x’s all the games he looked away from.
Reading about McNamee and his checkered past makes me wonder who does the background checks on these people, if anyone does checks. He had an incident in a Tampa hotel with a woman – charges were dropped, tax problems, and drug use and dealing charges against him. I don’t believe it makes Clemens an automatic habitual drug user just because a guy like this says he is – I would guess the bigger the fish he could bring down the better Mitchell liked it. Until there are thorough investigations with subpoena power in the 28 other club houses the book remains open on this situation.
Mike Lupica is an angry, nasty guy – I’d like to know what his past holds; any holier-than- thou types make me wonder.
I am behind Andy 100%. By the way, How come none of you have, nor are saying anything about Barry Bonds? Must be P.C.
I am behind Andy 100%. Where is the vitriol against Mr.Bonds? Haven’t heard any. Must be P.C.