A few recent news items to ponder
-
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- December
- 20
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News item: Royals sign LHP Ron Mahay for two years, $8 million.
Reaction: That’s a lot of money for a guy best suited for the sixth or seventh inning. Still, kudos to the Royals for finally spending some money these last two years. But kudos also to the Yankees for showing restraint. They were 37-19 the last two months of the season without having a lefty they could count on.
————
News item: Curt Schilling rambles on for 3,200 words about Roger Clemens in his blog.
Reaction: Zzzzzzzzzz.
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News item: Hank Steinbrenner tells Newsday that there’s an “outside chance” the Yankees will get Johan Santana.
Reaction: This story has now officially gotten tiresome. Trade for him, don’t trade him, let’s just move on. Bill Smith seems to be the Steve Trachsel of GMs.
The more interesting part of that story were Hank’s comments about how it’s his decision ultimately. He referred to himself as “the owner.”
The Hank and Hal Show has become a solo act, it seems. Little Stein has made all the right moves so far, keeping the free agents and showing patience on the Santana front. Were he talking to reporters these days, I’d love to know whether Brian Cashman thinks he has the same powerful job he negotiated for in 2005. The ultimate disposition of the Santana situation will be a sign, as Cashman does not want to trade Hughes or sign any pitcher for six years and $120 million.
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on Thursday, December 20th, 2007 at 12:54 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Isn’t is always ultimately the owner’s decision?
THey would be smart to listen to Cash and not trade Hughes……
I think the more important part, Ray, was that he refered to the owner in singular fashion… it’s not Hank and Hal running the show as it started out when we began the offseason; it seems like its all Hank’s at this point.
and i agree… i personally think they are going to trade for him anyway eventually, so lets skip the rest of the formailities and just get it done already.
this is from the very same article you linked, and yet you seemed to deduce that Cashman definitely does not want to trade for Santana?? it’s a very difficult decision and it sounds like neither of them have ruled out anything either way.
but i guess from the media’s perspective, the “story” of Hank vs. Cash makes for a more interesting read.
from the article:
“As yet, no decision has been made on whether to up the ante and pull the trigger to acquire Santana. Both of them are undecided.
“He’ll [Cashman] tell me that one day he wakes up and wants to do one thing, and the next he wakes up and wants to do the other thing,” Steinbrenner said, “and I’m kind of the same way. I think that we’re not exactly panicking thinking that we have to have anything at this point, but it’s still a possibility. He’s a great pitcher, and it has to be seriously considered.”"
hmmm, i had the same reaction to the article; that it seems like they are really struggling internally about how aggressively and with what package(s) they should proceed with.
Pete, you missed one. The Dog Ate It!!!!
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3163105
Does anyone care what Curt Schilling has to say? If I was Clemens I would tell him to shut up and mind his own business. Schilling is a fat blowhard who should have retired.
Schilling is really digging himself in deep. He fits the PED criteria, too. Aging pitcher who began his career normal-sized but became huge at the end. Was on two teams that have been full of PED abusers (specifically, the ‘01 Diamondbacks, with Gonzalez, Matt Williams, Cust, and a host of other suspects). And oh yes, why did Congress have him in, of all people, to testify. It’s a little sketchy that he testified with five other guys who all turned out to be users of PEDs. But he’d have you believe he’s clean.
Ultimately, the smoking gun is the “pitched better as he aged” factor…a guy whose previous best record was 16-7 (at age 28) suddenly puts up 22-6 and 23-7 in back-to-back years after turning 36. Ridiculous.
When the truth finally comes out, Schilling is going to lose a lot more than Clemens is losing right now. He’s gambling at high stakes because he’s on record repeatedly calling for heads to roll.
TurnTwo,
I thought it’s always been stated that Hank resides over baseball matters and that Hal resides over business matters.
“Little Stein”!
Tiny! Like a wee man! Smaller than his dad! Insignificant!
You’re better than Mike Lupica, Pete. Show it.
PS Justifying it as a Seinfeld reference is lame.
maybe it’s some sort of sign from higher powers
?Does anyone care what Curt Schilling has to say? ”
–Seeing that you took the time to address his comments, it’s looks like you do Bryan.
SJ,
Who do you think will be the first to come up to help the ben this year?(Horne,Sanchez,Maloncan)Is it possible that whoever that is might start up in the majors or do a Joba and come midseason.
hmmm,
I guess you werent a big fan of the 80’s. Stay tuned for the top 10 movies of all time.
Russell,
If history repeats itself than I cant believe that Dice will get better. He throws to many pitches per inning,walks alot,cant pitch with runners on. Like prior Japanese pitchers(Nomo,Park,Toad)it seems like the hitters adjust more than the pitchers. Which is the reason I predict he will only go downhill from here.
I’m sorry but I’m watching 1st and 10 on ESPN who is this new columnist because she just sounds like she doesn’t know what she’s talking about for the last 18 minutes, repetitive Schilling comments, putting more fire into the Romo/blonde log and now talking about how the Cavs beat up a weak Detroit Pistons team in the ECF I mean were we watching the same playoffs ?
Well, actually if you want to be technical about it he took the time to address Pete’s comment.
If I have already sent this my bad.
SJ,
Who do you think will be the first to come up to help the ben this year?(Horne,Sanchez,Maloncan)Is it possible that whoever that is might start up in the majors or do a Joba and come midseason.
hmmm,
I guess you werent a big fan of the 80’s. Stay tuned for the top 10 movies of all time.
Russell,
If history repeats itself than I cant believe that Dice will get better. He throws to many pitches per inning,walks alot,cant pitch with runners on. Like prior Japanese pitchers(Nomo,Park,Toad)it seems like the hitters adjust more than the pitchers. Which is the reason I predict he will only go downhill from here.
If I were Hal, I’d be peeved that Hank refers to the Yankees as “my team” and talks constantly in the first person. Why not talk in the “we” and “us” sense as in the “We the Yankees”? I think he’s got some sort of megalomania disorder.
Her we go my TOP 10 MOVIES OF ALL TIME
1.BRAVEHEART
2.APACALYPTO
3.MINORITY REPORT
4.SAVING PRIVATE RYAN
5.ROAD TO PERDITION
6.LORD OF THE RINGS(THE 2 TOWERS)
7.BATMAN BEGINS
8.CHILDREN OF MEN
9.PANS LABRYNTH
10.MEET THE PARENTS
mel-how could we forget a baseball movie(field of dreams). All the steriod talk has made our brains shrink.
Is it possible that Brian Cashman is making it known that he doesnt want to trade Hughes just so when he does,they wont ask for more players? Selling him so high that it makes it seem like he is doing them a favor to budge on giving him up. It wouldnt surprise me.
SOS 27, in no particular order:
1. Manhattan
2. Dr. Strangelove
3. Gone with the Wind
4. The Boondock Saints
5. Monty Python and the Holy Grail (ni!)
6. Airplane!
7. History of the World Part One
8. Dazed and Confused
9. Delta Force
10. The French Connection
Pete – I think your only partially correct re: Johan. If Santana were a free agent today, I think Cashman would happily sign him for 6yrs and $120 million.
1. Agreed. 8 million is stupid money for Ron Mahay.
2. Agreed. Schilling should just shut up. Roger Clemens played a big role in helping shape Schilling’s career. Sometimes, its better to say nothing than come across as a pompous ass.
3. I am not of the school that Cashman doesn’t want Santana. I don’t think he wants to trade Hughes for him.
However, what if that isn’t realistic? We can all sit here and type, “don’t trade Hughes”!!! But, if its either trade him and get Santana or not trade him and lose him to the Red Sox, what do you do?
That’s the dilemma Hank has right now. He owns the team. Its ultimately his call, not Cashman’s.
If you ride the fine line of falling too much in love with ALL the prospects, you sometimes lose perspective. This isn’t Tampa. This is New York. You keep some prospects, you deal others for the right guy. Johan Santana seems to be that right guy.
I have said it before and I’ll say it again. If I am a GM, and my owner has no problem spending the money, why should I care?
I don’t agree often with Michael Kay but, I do think he is correct when he says Cashman is overly sensitive about the payroll.
If the owner isn’t afraid to spend the money, the GM doesn’t have to be afraid either. He just has to make sure the owner spends it wisely.
8 million for Ron Mahay, 19 million on Scott Linebrink, or a 2 year deal for the Viz? To me, that’s a dumb way of spending money. Six years on Santana, a guy with ZERO injury history and is only 28? I don’t see that being a “dumb” move.
I truly understand both sides of the issue. I just think the Yankees are going to have to pull the trigger on this deal. Even if it means losing Phil Hughes.
One last thing. I wouldn’t put too much stock into Hank saying “he” is the owner, as if he is the sole owner.
Hal Steinbrenner would rather eat glass than speak publicly. He has no problems with Hank taking on the “public” role.
Both guys are running the team and Hal did most (if not all) the work on Arod’s and Rivera’s deals. He just hates the limelight.
Amen, SJ. always the voice of reason.
O.K. Guys, Chick Flick Alert (Das Boot, Edward Scissorhands, American Gigolo, and Field of Dreams just missed the cut)
In no particular order:
1. Crash
2. The Piano
3. The Pianist
4. The Crying Game
5. Godfather III
6. Hero (w/ Jet Li/Zhang Ziyi)
7. The Ususal Suspects
8. Forrest Gump
9. Sound of Music
10. Apollo 13
(sos-Apocolypto was awesome!)
Guys, we need to trust Cashman. He knows what he’s doing.
mel,
I think it was initially reported that Hank would be the baseball guy and Hal (I guess based on his expertise running the family hotels) would oversee the construction of the new stadium. Based on the project sizes I have done ($3M max), I imagine a near billion dollar project like that wouldn’t leave much time for worrying about player trades, contracts, etc.
It does seem to me that Hank has become the alpha dog of the team, and I also think that is good for the Yankees but not necessarily for Cash$.
Yanksrule,
What you say is true, but is it too much to hope that Santa brings him charisma for Christmas?
Jeez, you all have some bad taste in movies. Do yourselves a favor and go rent the following:
Citizen Kane
Chinatown
One Flew Over the Cukoos nest
Casablanca
Godfather parts 1 and 2
Glengary Glenross
Psycho
Rear window
High Noon
Double Indemnity
I am 21 years old.
1. Not signing Mahay (or the Viz) for > one year seems is consistent with the plan to rely on the internal options developing in the minors. I like it.
2. Cash, though he negotiated his deal with George, must now adapt to what’s really a change in ownership – Hank. Although Hank has been doing all the public talking these days, it is really impossible for us to know what goes on between the two of them in private. After all, it is not unreasonable for any owner to have input on such a large financial committment. Other than the Santana situation, it appears that not much has changed from what has been Cash’s longterm philosophy – have a strong farm and grow your own.
I’m grateful that there wasn’t any panicking in Nashville, to make a deal, no matter how dumb, just to make a deal.
My Movie Liat:
1. Animal House
2. Godfather
3. Godfather II
4 Goodfellas
5. Raiders of the lost Ark
6. Caddy Shack
7. Raging Bull
8. Jaws
9. Star Wars 4,5,6
10. Saving Private Ryan
Movie List, darnit
Mel, I thought The Crying Game was a fantastic film (saw it on opening night before anyone could ruin the ending). But I need to take issue with #5. I’ve never met anyone who liked III more than the original!
Baseball movies are generally bad, which is why they’ll make no one’s top ten list, but my favorite baseball movie of all time was “A League of Their Own”–by a LANDSLIDE. “The Sandlot” and “Bull Durham” round out the top three.
mel,
Im stealing one from you.
Im dumping MEET THE PARENTS and replacing it with the PIANIST. That is the one about the German War right? I mix it up with The Piano.
Charisma?
What’s not attractive about a chain-smoking, crew cut wearing,
craggy-faced 50 year old?
The Royals deserve no praise for signing Mahay for $8 million. This is just the kind of deal, significant money for a so-so player, that has kept them in the basement for so many years. And the Jose Guillen deal is worse.
I trust Cashman’s judgement big time.
I do not think Cashman will hold onto Hughes to risk out on not landing Santana. This cannot be what is behind any delay.
I do think Cash is legimately concerned though with trading another top prospect (Ajax or Kennedy) in addition to Hughes and Melky. I cannot fault him for that hesitancy, especially in contrast to the inferior package(s) that have been circulated regarding Boston’s trade bait.
I don’t see how its bad for Cashman. Hank has already approached him about a contract extension. If he was unhappy with Cashman, he wouldn’t have approached him about extending his deal.
Just because Cashman doesn’t want to trade the prospects, doesn’t mean he is correct.
All good organizations have a healthy give and take. There is never total agreement all the time in this situations. Theo Espstein didn’t want to do the Beckett deal. That deal was done in his absence.
Its admirable Cashman wants to keep the kids. However, in this instance (Santana), we aren’t talking about some over the hill arm. We are talking about the best pitcher in the game and he hasn’t approached his 30th birthday.
Its a very unique situation in today’s baseball. In recent years, guys like Santana don’t hit the open market.
Its why its such a tough call. One of those franchise-defining calls.
When the Yankees hit this type of fork in the road, I usually follow what Gene Michael wants to do. Supposedly, he is for including Hughes in the Santana deal.
If that’s true, that’s the tipping point for me. I’d do the deal.
Guy,
Yes the original was good. But no Andy Garcia and gnocchi.
Guy,
Godfather part 2 is my favorite one of the 3.
The Sandlot-favorite baseball movie.
Were you watching The little rascals and 3 stooges as a child?
Mel- The Godfather III? Really? I hope you just typed one extra ‘I’ and meant Godfather II. Godfather III isn’t even in the top ten Godfathers- and there are only three of them!
Schilling may not be on the “list” but he is on some sort of drugs!
Everything ought to be about preventing Santana from going to Boston…as long as we can keep him off the AL East teams, that’s what is important. If it comes down to the Twins trading him to Boston or the Yanks taking him…we have to get him. I think this episode is a baseball version of “chicken” and I think Little Stein is playing this close to the vest as a defensive strategy. Good for him. Good that he hasn’t closed up shop on this one, just in case…
Sorry, but I’ve seen people on this forum call the Yankees “MY Yankees”. He is one of the owners now, or at the very least acting in that capacity.
My wife and I both own all the cars in our driveway, yet we refer to particular cars as MY Car.
Seems a lot of talk over nothing but a turn of phrase.
You guys are forgetting a lot of great films:
Fight Club
Big Lebowski
Godfather 2
Godfather 1
Fargo
Children of Men
Hard Day’s Night
L.A. Confidential
Goodfellas
Jurassic Park
SOS–don’t laugh. My dad raised me on the Marx Brothers, Three Stooges, Laurel and Hardy, Abbott and Costello, and all of those old good movies that RosterRooster mentioned–some obvious all-timers in there like Citizen Kane and Casablanca.
Better to grow up with the classics, I say, than the crap that passes for TV for kids these days.
Sloooooooooooooooooooooooooooow news day. How many days until P&C report?
for me, the Twins get either Melky or AJax- but they cant have both of our future CFs.
I’d throw it out there, too, that if they want AJax (who would be our best positional prospect), then the pitchers start at IPK, and not Hughes, but I’m not sure how responsive they’d be to that.
A package around IPK, AJax, Marquez, and another prospect I would guess would be an ideal for BC, because he’s not losing anyone from the current MLB roster, really… but I dont view a deal that has to include Hughes as a dealbreaker.
A-point,
Like I said, it’s just a peeve, no big deal. Now if your car was worth a couple billion dollars you might be irritated if your wife kept referring to it as “her” car. Especially if your father gave it to both of you.
You know, I used to hate Clemens. I was pretty peeved when they traded Wells for him. Now, I believe him when he says he didn’t use the stuff.
Excellent point.
And her I thought I was the only one who called them My Yankees.
I am surprised that Curt Schilling doesn’t have a HALO over his head. Mr. Goody Twoshoes. A real team loyalist. Give me more money and top billing or I am out of here. Actually I dont think he has ever, I repear ever, done anything bad. I love Curt Schilling. He is my Idol, Man of the Year, MVP, Cy Young winner, Super Bowl MVP and the winner of the Preakness, NYC Marathon and the Tour de France. What a guy. I hope I didn’t forget anything…Oh yes, and Survivor, Australia.
Don Capone,
You had three of my ten. I can’t argue against any of your pics, except I haven’t seen Children of Men. My son’s favorite movie at one time was the Big Lebowski. That’s one I think you have to watch more than once to appreciate fully.
Guy,
I have no room to talk, I baught my 9 year old the all the years of The Little Rascals. I thought he would like them more than the keds comedy’s thats on t.v. now. Also Thundercats and Voltron.
Wasn’t Hughes on the table? Well, that wasn’t good enough right? So Hughes was not holding up the deal.
IPK, stud OF prospect, and 2 high ceiling RH pitchers. Deal or No Deal?
joe b, i am picking up some very subtle sarcasm.
Sunny:
According to my home-made tear-off calendar here at work, there are 57 days until pitchers & catchers report. It’s the only thing besides hockey that gets me through the winter.
Seems to me that the Twinkies BSmith wasn’t satisfied with Hughes and Melky. He was also asking for Kennedy as well. That should be a sticking point. Tabata or Jackson and Horne? That adds to it being tough.
I can see both of them going back and forth over this. One day Hanks says, Ok, I think I feel fine with it, while Cashman says, man, its too much. Then they reverse the roles the next day.
If they are having so much trouble over it, then they shouldn’t do it. It will lead to more second guessing about every decision they make, which becomes non-productive.
Children of Men 8th on my list.Awesome movie.
A movie on my list that most havnt watched is Pans Labrynth. Its a Dark Narnia type movie. A must See. Warning: unless you speak spanish you will be reading it.
FROM THE WTF ARE THEY THINKING FILES
mel, I drive a Porche and my wife a BMW, we also have a SAAB and a Jeep. So, its not like they are chopped liver.
Do you guys remember Children of a Lesser God? And Mad Max was pretty radical for its time.
Sos, no i was watching Mr. Rodgers and Shining time station
It seems like the Twins doesnt want Melky in the trade. Would you trade Jackson or Tabata and Hughes instead for Santana?
Well, level of irritation would depend on model. Boxster vs. Cayenne. 750IL vs. 325. lol.
Funny, I don’t see the Dirty Dozen on the list of movies. Or any with the Duke.
What a world, what a world.
SJ, totally agree. It appears as if Cashman and many others are afraid to trade Hughes in case he becomes great. Santana is great and can help the team right now. If you are going to realize any reward, you have to assume some risk. This appears to be a well calculated bet assuming it is not both Hughes and Kennedy.
I would substitute AJax or Tabata in for Melky, but not include both.
Now, I used to watch Mr. Rodgers. My older kids may have watched Shining Time. That’s the one with Ringo Starr?
I know your not this s……..
Now, why would the Twins prefer Hughes to Kennedy? Hmmm. That’s puzzling.
Choice A: Johan/Wang/Pettitte/Moose/Joba +20MIL Per Season
Choice B: Wang/Pettitte/Moose/Hughes/Joba/IPK
Which combination has a better chance of winning it all next year?
Would Pettitte pitch past ‘08 if he has a chance to pitch with Johan for the next 3/4 years?
Is Alan Horne for real? Melky? Action? Tabata? Joba? Hughes? IPK?
There are just too many question marks. Being a GM is hard work especially when you have Hindsight GM’s lurking in every newspaper and on every blog site.
Moves you make this year can make you look like a genius one day and like the town idiot the next.
I don’t envy Brian Cashman a bit.
911 vs 325ci vs. Viggen convertable (only 12,000 miles!).
All have a very special place in my heart.
Though my next car, soon to be in my garage will be all mine… 1967 Vette.
A-point,
At this point, you’re sounding like Jay Leno!
All of you that say, “I trust Cashman’s judgement”, did you tust his judgement in regards to uhm… KEI IGAWA ??
Don’t think that Cash is perfect, he is fallible just like the rest. However, if he does end up convincing Hank not to trade Hughes for Santana, if Hughes does not have an absolutely dominating year, and the Yankees don’t get to the post-season.. Cashman will be where all eyes focus.
The flip side:
Hank tell Cash, “Sorry, I am doing it”..
Santana has an off-year, Yank’s don’t make the playoffs .. Cash is secure and says, “I told you so!”.
Figure it out if you were Cashman having new owners.. what position do you want to be in? IN any job?
Mel,
I’m sorry, but Godfather III? Please tell us it’s a type-o. I don’t know anyone who can sit through that entire movie without being strapped down to a chair.
Here’s my top 15 in no particular order – I can’t do a top 10, nor can I decide which is my favorite movie of all time. It’s like asking me what’s my favorite breath I’ve breathed.
Raiders of the Lost Ark
Jaws
American Beauty
Broadcast News
Goodfellas
Godfather I & II
Lord of the Rings Series
Annie Hall
Quiz Show
Shawshank Redemption
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
Aliens
Pulp Fiction
Back To the Future
The Shining
Getting back to the World Series ball. Why would you leave the World Freaking Series ball on the counter? And why would you take a month to come out with the story. Wasn’t there confusion about who had the ball just two days after the last game?
that stupid? why? everyone loves melky, so ok, you can keep him.
but then you still have to give up something.
and you dont want to give up both hughes and IPK, right?
so instead of having to give up two of our best pitching prospects, give them an option of one of the two OFs, Tabata or AJax.
i love how people have fallen in love with two players who have never produced above Tampa (A).
Yeah, I’m going to let an OF who might help this team 3 years down the road keep me from acquiring the best pitcher in the league for this year, and have him for the near future.
i think i could handle locating a replacement OF’er in 2010 when we get there.
G. Love,
Like I said earlier. Andy Garcia and gnocchi trumps everything. I totally left off Shawshank Redemption. Great, Great film. I flirted with American Beauty and Goodfellas, too.
Mel, it’s because Jonathan Papelbon has the intelligence of a tin can. An empty tin can.
When he blows out his shoulder in a year or two and is selling used cars at the age of 31, I’ll bet he wishes he invested $4.99 for a BallQube.
Can’t get over this 38donuts.com stuff. Just when I thought he couldn’t run his fat mouth any more than he already had! Silly question, how come he is sweating Clemens’ Cy Youngs but doesn’t seem to be bothered by anyone else on the Mitchell list who has won an MVP i.e. Tejada, or Glaus in the WS. What’s up with the hypocrisy here? (Not that I’m surprised to see it coming from a sanctimonious Krispy Kreme gobbling blowhard like Schilling) Man I would give my pinky toe to see Farnsworth roundhouse kick him in the noggin…just once!
“Figure it out if you were Cashman having new owners.. what position do you want to be in? IN any job?”
i think the fact that Cashman is reluctant to make a deal that would certainly improve the team in his own personal contract year because it may hurt the team in the long run speaks pretty pretty well to his character and dedication to the NY Yankees organization.
i know they made a big deal in 2004, but do they generally make that big of a deal about the ball that made the final out of a world series?
hmmm
Agreed. What’s to say he doesn’t break?
“Buster Olney heard that the Mets could acquire starter Joe Blanton from the A’s if they’d agree to surrender Carlos Gomez, Aaron Heilman, and Kevin Mulvey.”
i would laugh very hard if Minaya made this trade.
As for Johan,
It’s time to make the deal.
Cashman’s judgement shouldn’t be the final say here. He’s made his own mistakes in the past and I think he’s gun shy from going for it all because he’s terrified that Hughes is going to make him look silly down the road. That’s not how you run a club.
Will the team compete without Johan?
Yes, but that still doesn’t change the fact that the best pitcher in baseball is available and all you are being asked to give up are Hughes and some question mark players.
They’re not even asking for Joba or Cano anymore.
Give them Hughes, Austin Jackson or Tabata, and 2 young pitchers and call it a day.
If they don’t want Melky, we’ll keep him.
I also think the idea of trading Matsui for pieces that the Twins want could be what is holding this deal up.
Obviously, the Twins don’t want Matsui, but if you can get them a few prospects they are enamored with from another organization that might be the key to this deal finally happening.
Clearly there is no rush to accept the Red Sox offer. It hasn’t changed and it’s been out there way too long.
I hope the Yankees come up with something that makes the deal happen. If the Yankees can figure out a way to keep Hughes, all the better, but I’m fine with him being in the package.
We need Johan. I’m actually concerned about Pettitte’s mental state for the upcoming season affecting his performance.
He’s going to be getting the steroid chants (even though used HGH) that Giambi used to get. He’s never had to deal with that kind of attention and he seems to be a bit of a sensitive guy.
We could use some sure things in the rotations, let alone the best starter in baseball.
200 innings. 200 k’s. You can’t put that in the books for many pitchers in baseball these days.
With Johan you can.
Hey! How come no announcement re: the Twins/Sox trade? I thought on Tuesday it was being reported that a deal was imminent and would be announced in 24 hours?
Sorry..I cant respond anymore. My parrot ate my mouse.
Ajax can be here as soon as next season as a midseason or late season call up. He’s the future CF here instead of wasting another 40 mill on has beens, Tabata is our RF when Abreu’s contract runs out, so yeh there is a big reason they are still here. And as for Johan being the best in the game listen man we haven’t seen Johan Santana be Johan Santana in sometime other than that 17 K performance but it can’t be denied he has fallen off a bit
“Agreed. What’s to say he doesn’t break?”
he might. who knows? i think a lot of it has to do with the Twins.
i’m pretty sure Cashman would trade Hughes for Santana straight up.
but if the Twins are just going to keep asking for more and more in addition to Hughes, Cashman is probably going to be very uncomfortable with that.
in Cashman speak: he’ll do it if it “makes sense”. if it doesn’t he won’t. unless Hank overrules him, which is his right as Cashman’s boss i suppose.
in other words, i have no idea what is going to happen. lol.
Whoa, very surprised to see that no one picked “Ben-Hur” in their top 10. Now that’s a movie.
Cashman’s taking a gamble that the Sox and Twins won’t get a deal done.
It’ll be interesting to see who wins the chess match between Theo and Cash$.
oh, and I want to get in on the top 10 favorite movies thing! Lots of good picks from those who already posted! My list will probably make both my age and gender pretty evident, at some point…
1) The Big Lebowski
(huge gap here)
2) Menace II Society
Set It Off
3) Kids
4) The Breakfast Club
5) Scent of a Woman
6) Dirty Dancing
7) American Beauty
9) Taxi Driver
10) Save The Last Dance (I know, I know, lame…I can’t help but find it strangely compelling though!)
honorable mentions would go to Goodfellas, Sea of Love, Bronx Tale, Amer. History X…oh and A Clockwork Orange. It’s so hard to just pick 10!
G. Love, absolutely agree. and i agree that a pending Matsui deal could be whats holding this up.
I still think the Padres are a fit, for Chase Headley and a couple low level arms. they make Matsui happy with a 2 year extention, and we get an extra piece the Twins would value, which is a potential slugging 3B.
Then you’ve got a deal in place that would include Hughes, AJax, and Chase Headley, plus you could still throw in a Jeff Marquez to make the Twins happy.
and, you keep the OF you were planning on going into the season with to being with, which is Damon in LF, Melky in CF, and Abreu in RF, but now you’ve included Johan in the rotation.
AJAx in CF as early as next year is a pipe dream. i honestly think Tabata is at least a year off, as well. and i agree, both of these OFs have potential, thats why I include only one in the deal… AJax goes, then you have Melky and Tabata for the near future… If Tabata goes, then you can let AJax develop, and let Melky play CF until he’s ready, and you can extend Abreu to play RF if need be.
and yes, the arguement that Johan has fallen off is completely debateable.
Are the Padres interested in Matsui? I hadn’t heard anything about that, but I’ll take it…What TurnTwo described above could be a good fit for both teams. San Diego is broke as a joke though – well, that’s hyperbole, but you know what I mean, could they afford Matsui’s contract? How much of it does anyone think SD or another small market team like them would want us to eat if a deal did happen?
Also, has anyone heard anything about any sort of market for Igawa? Heard some time ago that B’more and Seattle were both interested (I can’t figure out why there isnt more interest from NL teams) but nothing since then. I am a big Igawa hater and would love to never see him again but perhaps Cash wants to hold onto him until his value increases and then deal him? My question is though…will his value EVER increase? Or is he just a lost cause?
quick clarification…
“I am a big Igawa hater and would love to never see him again …”
…unless it involves him wearing an opposing uni and Shelley taking him deep, that is!
i havent heard of the Padres interest, but I mention them because they make complete sense. Their offense stinks, period. They just traded for a CF who missed the majority of games last season with varying injuries, including post-concussion syndrome, and expect him to play and produce everyday in the middle of that order.
SD isnt really small market. they just gave Jake Peavy $16+ million a year… for a little offense to help Peavy win some games now, I think they’d make the deal. They just need to take the $$ they were going to spend on Fukudome and spend it on Matsui.
The more I think about Papelbon’s dog eating the ball, the less I believe it. He left it on the counter? How do we know that this isn’t just his way of not having to turn it over the Saux?
The owner (George, Hank, Hal, whoever) is the ultimate boss and Cashman has always said he is there to execute his boss’s decisions. Just like any of us who have a job.
The power stuggle of a few years ago was with the ‘other’ baseball people in Tampa who had too much of George’s ear. Cash is probably happy to do whatever moves Hank / Hal wants, as long as he has an opportunity to present his views on it. At the end of the day, any GM is an employee and no one has 100% autonomy to run a team.
mel,
Here’s my homework assignment:
1. Serenity
2. Aliens
3. Spy Game
4. The Shawshank Redemption
5. The Deep End
6. 61* (HBO)
7. Children of Men
8. Rounders
9. Children of Men
10. Bull Durham
BBB, Igawa has nowhere to go but up from where he was last year. At times he showed that he “gets it” but I think he needs at least half a season in AAA to get his control under…control.
A lefty pitcher is always useful at some level, but I’m not entirely convinced the Yankees are willing to give up on him so easily. That being said, I’m sure we would all hope the door doesn’t hit him in the bum on the way out.
Okay, Children of Men was good, but I didn’t mean to list it twice. 9 should be Searching for Bobby Fisher.
Re Papelbon and the WS ball,
What of you expect from a guy who would do an Irish jig in front of 30,000 people wearing spandex,…. who is not named Michael Flatley?
i’m not a big movie person, but i took a shot at it. the list might look entirely different if i made it a year from now…
No order:
-Midnight Cowboy
-Once
-Goodfellas
-Breakfast Club
-Wierd Science
-A Bronx Tale
-In the Name of the Father
-Stranger than Fiction
-Clockwork Orange
-American Gangster
Why none of the Rockies movies? That series alone would probaby fill out a list of 10.
Brian Cashman is like many people in that he likes to see hard work come to fruition and he can’t be blamed for that. He’s also aware that people he reports to are appreciative of what his mission has been.
Hank Steinbrenner has said on more than one occasion that of all the braintrust on the team, Cashman is the frugal one. Any owner want that quality as well. He’s also aware of Cashman’s reputation of being stealth and in a Santana deal, this works to the owner’s advantage. It’s sort of a good poker player angle. Look like you don’t want to part with a given card but underneath it all, that card will justify your reason.
Cashman has seen and done enough dealing to know it’s a not a something for nothing sport that he chose for his vocation. He knows that Phil Hughes will need to be the feature piece in any Santana deal. It serves him no purpose in tipping his hand.
Should Hank Steinbrenner decide to play Santa(NA) Claus before Christmas Day, Brian Cashman will be the first to look at his boss behind closed doors, shake his hand and say “We did it”.
Clare,
Searching for Bobby Fisher was good. Lots of people have listed “Children of Men”. I’ll have to rent it.
OK, so I guess I need to go rent Children of men…..
Igawa had some times when he pitched well. I just don’t think he can handle NY all that well.
I wonder if the Twins would take Igawa instead of Hughes.
Reportedly, the Tigers give D-Train 3 years, 29 million
Here’s another great 90s movie: “Sleepers”. The screenplay was amazing, if rather disturbing…but the soundtrack was the real treat. Since the movie timeline went from the early 60s to the mid-80s, lots of variety.
I wonder if some of the lack of movement in the Santana talks are because Hank knows it isn’t something the fans are wild about. Maybe he is letting some time go by to allow the fans to get used to the idea.
Blargh,
Why? Was the trade contingent on an extension? Why would you give a pitcher money before throwing a single pitch in the AL?
Who knows. Maybe Detroit will be good for him. It’s not like he can get drunk and then get pulled over in his Rolls Royce. Nowhere to get in trouble in the midwest. Wait. Isn’t Indiana in the midwest? Never mind.
YanksRule57 -
I believe the Papelbon you refer to is the one who made an arse of himself in front of fans just like him ….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu43lbTrvOQ
Guy,
I’m with you on sleepers.
mel,
People either loved or hated Children of Men – there’s no middle ground. I loved it obviously, but then I’d watch Clive Owen read the phone book. Which reminds me of some more of his movies that are worth seeing – Croupier, Greenfingers, Inside Man.
Clare,
Did you like “Closer”?
Mel, Mel, Mel…
Did you put a curse on my Celtics last night??????
Turn Two you looking to build a new dynasty or build one for other teams ? because that’s my problem w/ that thinking what we need more 30 something yr. old OF’s that can’t defends or are overpaid, then the SP who ok I understand what he is yet you want to let go of young kids w/ high ceiling for him, when you can just get him for free in the offseason.
If Johan ends up in Boston and they sell their farm so be it, it takes more than one dominant SP to win it all, it takes a strong BP, defensive OF, strong bench, and solid rotation, why the hell do we have to sell anything that we really don’t want to sell ?
Again why are we contributing to building another team’s franchise, that’s one question no one has answered yet.
mel,
Probably a combination of hoping he can get back to his old form and to lock him up before the next hike in market rates? (to compare, the Dodgers did sign Kuroda to a 3 year, 35.3 million contract)
And Willis is a left hander…
You know what, none of this makes sense anymore
Mel…okay confess…did you put a curse on my Celtics last night?
Brandon, because we are building one of our own.
i could care less if Johan ends up in Boston or not; thats not my motivation for making the deal.
ray,
Dude. The Lakers didn’t play, and everyone above them lost including the Suns! I don’t think it was me. More like a rock in the soft schedule and DEEE-TROIT Basketball! (That’s so annoying when the Detroit announcer does that).
Don’t sweat, it though. Only 3 losses. Stop being a spoiled Boston fan.
There is no rush to get Santana on Dec. 20 (or 21, for that matter).
If it costs Phil Hughes, then that’s what it costs. But if you can get Santana without paying out Hughes…and all it takes is patience….
The only thing better than Santana in a Yankee uniform is Santana and Hughes in Yankees’ uniforms.
I have not seen Papillion on any list.
Mel,
I did like Closer, and also Derailed (which is the only thing I’ve ever liked Jennifer Aniston in).
ray,
Actually, I think it was Big Papi who cursed him. Did you see him on the sideline jumping up and down in his Celtics jersey? You don’t dance until “it’s in the frig” as Chick Hearns used to say.
And that clown hair. Ewww.
jj,
That’s a classic. Dustin Hoffman’s the man.
Nobody’s mentioned “The Graduate” either.
TurnTwo, as long as you realize the needs and wants and Santana is just a want, do we need him nope not really, do you want him, yeh but at what price, talking about high ceiling guys like Tabata who is in his teens, Ajax early 20’s excuse me if they are in AA and A ball, a guy called Jeter came up at the age of 21 didn’t get much backing at 22 either, a guy named Bernie Williams didn’t touch AAA until he was 22 yrs. old, didn’t wake up until he was 26 and we know who’s to blame for that. Jorge hit AAA at 22, why should these kids be any different ?
Pete wrote: “He [Hank] referred to himself as ‘the owner.’”
This is sad: George is dead. Long live George.
that’s jesus telling Papi to come clean
Brandon,
LOL. Big Papi did look like he was at a revival.
I am new to yankee fan family. Anyone want to catch me up on the Triple A Scranton team, or point me in a direction to look up info.
Some thoughts:
(1) According to Bobcat, it was Kennedy and volume or Hughes and less volume.
(2) Santana wants to pitch in NY, for the NYY. Cashman (who was on the same plane as Santana’s agent–why did they take the same plane to Nashville) likely knows this. Santana is driving the bus–it is likely NYY this year or NYY in 09. Bill Smith understands that, and is using the Sox as a scare tactic. We are hearing what we are supposed to hear.
(3) SJ, as Yogi Berra said: “when you come to a fork in the road, take it.”
(4) Where is Bobcat for updates?
(5) Best movie ever: Godfather.
they are different because you are moving these prospects for the best pitcher in the game, period.
and these moves are not made in a vacuum. Austin Jackson and Jose Tabata are not the last 2 OFs the Yankees will EVER develop, just like Phil Hughes is not the last pitcher the Yankees will ever develop.
and you arent losing AJax AND Tabata in my proposal idea, just one.
i cant fathom how trading for the best pitcher in the game can be this awful an idea to someone.
in the trade, you keep the entire opening day lineup intact, as it stands to be right now, but the only difference is that you have Johan Santana on the mound opening day… how is this a bad thing? i’ll be honest, this has me completely baffled.
mel
Papi after roids
Papi has powers
Santana will be here or nowhere…simple.6 years and $120 million isn’t bad Pete for a 29 year old 2 Cy Young winner in his Prime.He is worth more then that even in this crazy market where Kyle Lohose who is a AAA pitcher now is a $44 million richer.Thats sad.
I like Hughes and like him here but 3 rookies is a rebuilding year no way around it.
Ah yes, reducing it to the prospects are just prospects rationalization. That’s the way a lot of teams get bad, fast.
Ten Movies
The Good, The Bad and The Ugly
Once Upon a Time in America
The Godfather
The Godfather II
It’s a Wonderful Life
Casablanca
The Maltese Falcon
Chinatown
Raging Bull
Rear Window
His Girl Friday
btw, I’m a huge movie buff and I could probably come up with a few more groups of ten that I like about as much as these ten…
here:
http://emedia.thetimes-tribune.....fault.aspx
I’m not sure what people are referring to when they say the Yankees should “just make the Santana deal.”
What does that mean? Sure the yankees could make the deal, but doesn’t it matter what the twins want?
Supposedly they don’t think much of Melky and they want three major league ready, cost controlled players.
They could very well be asking for: Hughes/ Kennedy/ Horne / Jackson or Hughes/ Kennedy/ Alberto Gonzales / Jackson.
Do you make those deals?
This speculation that well you give them Hughes/ Jackson and other lesser pitchers, Horne / Marquez seems to be largely based on that one report from the Daily news about the Hughes/ Melky/ Marquez/ Hilgoss package. I personally don’t think that’s a package the twins ever were considering.
The hold up here isn’t Hughes – the yankees already put him in the deal.
The hold up is adding Kennedy to the deal. That’s the main question – do you trade Hughes and Kennedy and two other good prospects (one of which would be Jackson).
That’s the type of package that would “get the deal done.”
Santana hasn’t been traded yet however because neither the sox nor the yankees have met the Twins demands.
If you just decide that you have to make the trade at all costs (which it sounds like many people want) then you are going to make the deal on the twins terms.
Those terms sound like they would involve Hughes/ Kennedy/ Jackson and then another player, just to start with.
Santana/ Wang/ Pettite/ Joba/ Mussina would be very strong in 2008 (although I think Mussina will not be very good).
They will be searching for at least one starter to replace mussina in 2009 and maybe two if Pettite has yet another change of heart.
Giving up Hughes and Kennedy will not be easy, even if you get Santana back. But that’s what it’s going to take right now at minimum to execute the deal.
even w/ 2 rookie SP and 10 projects we won 96 games last yr., man people here still don’t understand trading 19 – 22 yr. olds w/ high ceiling makes no sense, your robbing yourself and then we wonder why we don’t get or have guys like these at a younger age.
I’m sorry I’m not desperate for Johan Santana.
At some point, if there’s only one team in the talks, then Bill Smith will lose leverage. That’s why the Red Sox aren’t offering anything remotely attractive.
Brandon, I totally agree with you. We don’t even have a good handle on Hughes and Kennedy’s real abilities, and it’s worth waiting a season to find out. He’s not going to Boston, so I think the Yankees should see what this season brings and then try and go for him in free agency. IMO you HAVE to see what Hughes and IPK can do over the course of a year in the rotation, otherwise you are giving up way too early on A-level young talent.
Johan obviously wants to come here, but the Twins are trying to hold the Yanks up for him.
Making a list of my favorite movies really depends on the day, what I’ve seen recently and what I haven’t seen for a while. So, today my list is:
To Kill a Mockingbird
It’s A Wonderful Life
Casablanca
Gladiator
Blade Runner
The Quiet Man
Young Frankenstein
Pulp Fiction
West Side Story
They All Laughed
Most of you probably haven’t seen They All Laughed. If you want to see NYC lovingly portrayed, or if you remember disco roller skating and are old enough to think Audrey Hepburn was beautiful, check out this quirky love story. Aside: I met Sean Ferrer, Hepburn’s son, about 8 or 9 years ago. We had some legal business to do but afterwards he was gracious enough to talk with me for a few minutes about his mother and They All Laughed, in which he appears. Among other things, he told me that Quentin Tarantino had screened the movie for the cast of Jackie Brown because he loved the pace and feel of They All Laughed and wanted the same for Jackie Brown.
Brandon, you do understand there will be other players the Yankees develop, right? and you realize we already have other high ceiling players other than Hughes and AJax and Tabata in the system, right?
and thats exactly why you make this trade: because you are getting the PROVEN young commodity vs. the UNPROVEN young commodities.
Do you take a chance on making a mistake? sure.
But, you might take more of a chance waiting for the young players to develop and then they never do.
Why doesn’t anyone talk about Wilson Betemit? I’m sure if the Yankees included him in any trade talks, that would save the necessity of including a prospect that they actually want to hold onto. And the Twins could certainly use some power in the infield. I’m sorry, but Nick Punto and Adam Everett don’t quite cut it.
A while back I said that a Kennedy/Melky/Betemit/Horne package should be enough to get Santana. Obviously Bill Smith currently thinks he can get more than that, but I think that if the trade were finally made, it would look something like that.
Turn Two I know what talent your talking about, Taylor Holiday, Abraham Almonte, Carlos Urena, Kevin De Leon, Elios De Rosa those kids are atleast 3 – 6 yrs. away from touching the ML, you can’t just trade the high ceiling now talents waiting for these guys to contribute, that is truly not smart.
Don’t get too caught up with ceilings.
There are plenty of “high ceiling” prospects who never make it, despite the hype and ability.
Roberto Kelly was a high ceiling prospect. A “can’t miss”. Bernie Williams was not. Who had the better career?
That’s just one example. I can give you more.
Such as Ed Yarnell. A pitcher who was supposed to be the next, great Yankee lefthander. Didn’t happen.
Johan Santana has ALREADY made it. That’s why its such a tough call. You know what you are getting with him.
The others are, as of right now, wishful commodities.
Let’s not kid ourselves, the Yankees need Johan Santana.
The question is the price, not the need.
TurnTwo: I like the logic about Matsui and the Padres. I mean they just invested in Peavy, so why not back up the investment with some run support? And they went pretty high on Fukudome, especially high for them anyway, so a lefty OF is probably a pretty big area of need. The thing is that I don’t think they’d want to pay Matsui more than they were willing to pay Fukudome and IIRC their offer to him was less than Mats makes annually. So I’d guess we would have to eat a few mill of Mats’ contract. Normally I hate doing that, but if it’s the only thing holding them back from getting Santana, how bad could it be? Especially with all the money coming off the books for ‘09.
Guy Incognito: As far as Igawa, I agree that Cash’s thinking is probably that trading him now would be selling low, and wants to wait for his value to rise. I don’t know that I agree he has nowhere to go but up though. IMO his 07 numbers could have been, and probably shouldve been, way worse than they were. He seemed to benefit from good luck an awful lot, i.e. his “quasi start” vs Boston – I still can’t figure out how they managed to not hit him! And then that game vs SF where Matsui made the catch that saved his hyde also comes to mind. I feel like his ERA should have been about 10 or 11 last year had certain things not broken his way. Which just adds to my desire to never see him pitch in a Yankee uniform again, cause I fear all the good luck that he enjoyed in 07 will quickly catch up with him. It always does, good ole law of the averages! Of course, there’s always the possibility that he could just plain pitch much better next year…but I’m really not holding my breath. I may be in the minority here but I wouldn’t lose a minute of sleep if Cash decided to cut his losses w/him right now. I feel like Chase Wright has the better chance of improving his command, if any lefty in the system is going to.
TurnTwo-
The Yankees were the best team in baseball after the 2007 All-Star break without Johan Santana. And we did not have Joba in the starting rotation either. Actually, we had “Rocket Roid” Clemens in our starting rotation. The Yankees need to keep Cabrera and take a chance on one of the Big Three turning out to be the next Johan Santana. That is all it has to take. Just one. And we have three potentially. And the other high-celing young talent? You keep them too and build your team for the future. DO NOT TRADE FOR SANTANA.
The question is, is a package of Hughes/Kennedy/Melky/Jackson really worth one year of Santana? Obviously we would sign him to an extension, but are essentially trading for just ONE YEAR…….
This is a difficult decision on movies, because I catigorize movies like I do music…depends on my mood…
War pictures
Screwball Comedies
Gangster Movies
Swashbucklers
Historical
Baseball/Sports
I’d end up with 60 movies and still forget 25.
1. Patton
2. The Green Berets
3. To Hell And Back
4. Philadephia Story
5. It Happened One Night
6. Little Caesar
7. The Flame And The Arrow
8. The Black Swan
9. Shindler’s List
10. The Pride Of St. Louis
and I’m still 75 movies short
Will everybody please go rent CHILDREN OF MEN so you can put it in your top 10 as some of already have.
Tomorrows homework:Best T.V. SERIES ever.
Swo: I’ve wondered the same thing about Betemit. You’d think he’d be one of the first guys thrown in to sweeten the pot, not only because he fills a need for the Twins but also because, couldn’t Juan Miranda just as easily serve as the other side of the 1b platoon w/ Shelley? I did hear his name in conjunction w/the Johan deal once or twice, but nothing big. Perhaps the Twins don’t like him? But they said they wanted major league talent, so Betemit would seem to trump Lowrie, the IF Boston is offering. Go figure…
Also, while I’m on the subject of Betemit…is anyone else worried about 1b defense next year? We don’t really know what WB can do there w/the glove, and as much as I love Shelley, I fear he may be a defensive hack. You have to think he DH’ed so much for a reason, and his brother Chris can’t even play LF properly. So yeah I do feel slightly uncomfortable with all these defensive ??’s at 1b. It’s not like Donnie will be around to take them to school during ST anymore either. Anyone heard anything about any plans to even see where these kids stand defensively, nevermind having someone to come in & work w/them in ST? (Tino pls???)
SJ we didn’t draft Yarnell the Mets did than traded him to FLA which then we traded Mike Lowell the underachieving 3B for him and Todd Noel ( a curious move but an ehh type move)
Roberto Kelly showed flashes injuries was his problem then he was traded for Paul O’neil com’on man I understand the talk about past prospects that didn’t pan out, but the difference is the MLB is high on our prospects, scouts, GM, and now you want to let them go because of the past ?
I don’t see the situation the exact same way, I mean Damon Oppenheimer is our scout and Carlos Rios has done a damn good job finding the latin talent
The main issue with the Santana trade is the second player after Hughes.
If you put Kennedy in the deal, it probably gets done. I don’t think its too much more complicated than that.
That’s the decision right now. Do you trade Hughes and Kennedy together.
And if you do put Kennedy in the deal the twins will take the offer back to the sox. The sox will then put Lester and Ellsbury in the deal if only to keep cranking up the price.
If you make the commitment that you have to get Santana it may come to Hughes/ Kennedy/ Marquez/ Jackson.
That’s the type of package you have to be willing to part with to make sure he’s in pinstripes in 2008 at the start of the season.
Their major risks on both sides of the decision. This may be the defining move for the yankees over the next ten years either way it goes.
Joba Chamberlain is the next Johan Santana.
SJ44 at 4:03 has it right – the question here is the price for Santana. And if you can get a lower price by waiting, well, what’s wrong with that? The season doesn’t start for another 3 months-plus.
s.o.s., no lists? just one show?
The yankees have signed some free agents but have yet to post the transactions. Included is a 27 year old, Big Lefty that plays RF/1B. Projected for Triple A Scranton.
CB-
Do the Twins not have any interest in Cabrera anymore?!
SJ44,
Thanks for the analysis, but we really want to know your TOP 10 movie list.
The Yanks also had one of the weakest schdules after the allstar game last year also.
oh and getting back to the movie thing, I left out almost all my favorite comedies on my list. I always seem to forget about them in favor of dramas, or at least “dramadies,” whenever I’m listing favorite movies. But I love a good pure comedy so here are my top 5 LOL movies…
1) Half Baked
2) Old School
3) Ace Ventura
4) Up In Smoke
5) Billy Madison
Also, if we’re doing TV series tomorrow then I vote for favorite bands on the next boring workday!
saucy-Top 5
saucy-lets make it a top 5 list.
those aren’t comedies. Try watching some Mel Brooks or Monty Python.
as2008, I’ll see if I post some info on them
SJ44 at 4:03 has it right – the question here is the price for Santana. And if you can get a lower price by waiting, well, what’s wrong with that? The season doesn’t start for another 3 months-plus.
Why remind me how far away it is
at least college bowl season starts tonight (12/29 = GO UCF!!)
Mark,
I don’t think they consider Cabrera an adequate second player in the deal. If they did, it would have gotten done.
I’d guess they think he’s a nice player but not a difference maker. As the third or fourth player in the deal I’d think he’d work.
But again – if the Twins get the sense the yankees have made a definite commitment to get Santana at all costs, then I don’t think they’ll settle for Melky.
I wouldn’t. They got Jason Pirdie already. He’s not bad and could play center.
If I were the Twins and the yankees seemed interested and decided that they have to keep them from the sox I’d ask for something like Hughes/ Kennedy/ Jackson / Betances. Maybe even a fifth player. I’d guess the Sox would throw in a fifth player.
Doug-
True. But I do feel like after the All-Star Break the Yankees had some sort of stability in the pitching rotation. This obviously helped them to calm down and concentrate on playing ball rather than who the next band-aid pitcher was going to be. But lets be fair. The Yanks swept all 6 games from the ALDS champion Indians and had a pretty darn good record against Boston. Im out to do Christmas shopping!!! see ya guys. good luck on the movie thing.
BTW: Best movie of all time. Shawshank Redemption.
Mark McCray-
Yeah the Yankees got into the post-season without SAntana.And how did we fair in the post season with 19 Era Wang(who every year in the Post Season has been declining).
Santana will be dominant for 200 innings.Joba and Hughes and Kennedy might dominate only for 160 innins.
BBB,
And how could we leave The Blues Brothers and Beverly Hills Cop? Or any of Eddie Murphy’s movies from the 80’s?
When the Kelly for O’Neill trade was made, writers in NY killed Stick for it.
They couldn’t understand trading Kelly for a guy who didn’t play a lot against lefthanded pitching. They also couldn’t understand him staying so long with Bernie. Especially when you had a fully engaged George ranting about Bernie’s baserunning, instincts, etc. to every writer working the Yankees beat.
It was not the “no brainer” trade it turned out to be when it was made. Not by a long shot.
Some of the beat writers also felt Piniella would have never gotten rid of a player (O’Neill) he thought was a “winner”.
Funny how things turn out when you take a shot at hitting a home run with a deal.
All I am saying is, don’t go overboard with prospects.
It doesn’t matter how many people feel strongly about Yankee prospects.
As strongly as many in the game feel about Yankee prospects, I don’t know many baseball people who wouldn’t trade Hughes AND Kennedy for Santana. That’s how highly people in the game think of Santana. Especially when baseball people know, if the Red Sox acquire Santana, the Yankees are playing for the WC.
If you acquire Santana, you have an ace, and a LH one at that, for the next 5-6 years. After that time, he would be YOUNGER than Andy Pettitte is right now and folks wanted Pettitte back to pitch this year.
So let’s not get crazy about Santana’s age.
Not everyone of these “can’t miss” Yankee prospects are going to become all stars. It never quite works out that way.
Injuries, performance issues, etc. always seem to come up. Its just the nature of the game.
The key to a great farm system is to have depth, which the Yankees have, and flexibility, which they also have, to absorb these type of deals.
The farm system can absorb a Santana trade. Its just a matter of getting everyone on the same page.
Honestly, the more I think about it, the more I wonder why they haven’t pulled the trigger on it already. The owner wants to do it. He has no problems spending the money.
The system can absorb the trade. At some point, I have to believe logic is going to kick in and Cashman will realize its a deal that has to be done.
If they allow Santana to go to the Red Sox, it means the Yankees have to be right on EVERY pitching prospect they have. No exceptions.
If not, they are playing catchup to the Red Sox for the next few years.
Its a big, big gamble for Cash to make because he has an owner who is ready to deal.
It will be interesting to see how this shakes out.
RangerRob, come on, Up in Smoke was freakin’ hysterical. Those other four are good-to-decent comedies, but UiS was Cheech and Chong at their best.
“Hey, how’m I driving, man?”
“I think we’re parked.”
(How High > Half Baked)
Still against Hughes for Santana.
Ten of my favorite movies:
The Good, The Bad and The Ugly
Once Upon a Time in America (Director’s Cut)
The Godfather
The Godfather II
It’s a Wonderful Life
Raging Bull
Casablanca
The Maltese Falcon
Chinatown
Gunga-Din
I’m just not so convinced that the Red Sox would get/truly wanted to trade for and sign Santana. Wouldn’t they already have gotten him if they did?
My Top 10 movies:
1. Godfather
2. Godfather II
3. Goodfellas
4. Animal House
5. Stripes
6. The Usual Suspects
7. Donnie Brasco
8. Raging Bull
9. Wedding Crashers
10. 40 Year Old Virgin
Why is Schilling the hypocritical hoot that he is ?
1. He personally called Clemens last May and requested that he return to Boston to help the Boston cause.
2. His front office CEO (Larry Lucchino) put a video together with Red Sox fans virtually begging Clemens to come back. Schilling never said a word that ‘roids were of suspicion.
3. Schilling is commonly known in baseball circles as Curt “Table for one” Schilling.
Hey everyone – I’ve been off email all day. My top ten movies (of all time, right?) in no particular order:
1. League of Their Own
2. Drop Dead Gorgeous
3. The Birds
4. High Noon
5. Pride of the Yankees (I know).
6. Ghostbusters
7. Bull Durham
8. Goodfellas
9. The Godfather I (went downhill from there)
10. And, if I’m being honest, Mean Girls.
PS Schilling is a blowhaad. Did we ever find out why he went and testified before Congress with Palmeiro, McGwire et al.?
“(How High > Half Baked)”
you really think so? i don’t know, i always put Half Baked down as my generations Cheech and Chong.
I agree with SJ44 100%.I’ve thought that way all along.I just re-read some of the archives from November and it seems that a few folks here have changed their opinions since then and now want the trade to happen regardless if both Hughes and Kennedy are included.
If the trade doesn’t happen and the Red Sox do get Santana, I’m still not convinced the Yanks can’t compete and even beat Boston.
The Red Sox are still relying on deeply aged pitchers like Wakefield and Schilling. The replacements for these two are no more of a sure thing than Hughes or Kennedy.
Go around the horn and the Yanks are as good, if not better at catcher,2nd base, shortstop,3rd base, center field and right field. Right now Boston’s bullpen looks better,but we’ve learned that bullpen success is one of the hardest aspects of the game to predict.
SJ perfect point on Stick Micheal but also remember Stick is not in favor of the Johan Santana deal either even went as far as to say it on ESPN radio
Saucy, it’s the closest thing this generation has to C&C, but I don’t think it’s a great movie. “Friday” or “How High” or even “The Big Lebowski” are far better stoner comedies. I thought Half Baked was fun the first few times I watched it but it doesn’t hold up that well. I can’t stand the woman that Chappelle’s character keeps going after. (Unsurprisingly, I forgot all of the characters’ names.)
1,2,3,6,7 hmmm? For months people have been asking you what you do for a living. Still no answer to the question. So i am just going to throw this out and blink once for yes and twice for no. YOUR A HIT MAN FOR SOME MAFIA. Oh and how can you have all those and not CASINO?
mel
ringo starr was great in caveman
what about serpico, dog day afternoon, cuckoo’s nest and birdman of alcatraz?
Up in Smoke was definitely a classic. It’s a shame that none of the other Cheech and Chong movies that followed were any good.
For the record, Half Baked is probably Dave Chapelle’s best performance to date. He made such a surprisingly good lead character.
Hey another 80’s movie that wasnt bad Midnight Run.
I haven’t seen a whole lot of movies, so my list, top ten movies that I’ve seen:
1) Wizard of Oz
300
2) Shawshank Redemption
3) Star Wars IV
4) Lord of the Rings: Return of the King
5) The Fugitive
6) Mystic River
7) Field of Dreams (I get goosebumps thinking about it!)
9) The Lion King
10) Moulin Rouge!
how about Midnight Express.
rb15 – I just saw Drop Dead Gorgeous for the first time the other day and absolutely loved it. Definitely one of the more underrated movies out there.
It’s like a Christopher Guest movie, except it’s funny.
arrested development is clearly the #1 tv series of all time.
michael cera is the greatest.
ps Half Baked is better than How High.
I think the best stoner movie out there (um, so I’ve heard, anyway), is cult classic Pootie Tang. Or maybe it’s not a stoner movie per se, and I just associate it with…
well, anyway.
guess we’ll agree to disagree, GI. i wasn’t too high on how high. Friday was great though. Can’t believe I forgot that one.
Casino was just “Goodfellas in the Desert”. A very overrated movie.
The Departed was better than Casino.
Brandon,
Stick was one of the voices who said to include Hughes in the Santana deal. I don’t know what he said in a generic radio interview but, he was all for (and probably still is) in favor of getting Santana. Even if it means giving up Hughes.
Mainly, because they have Joba to take Hughes’ place as the “young RH” in the rotation.
Its what I mean when I say, you have to have depth in the system to make this type of deal.
SJ he told Micheal Kay on his show he wasn’t really in favor of it I’ll get the link later when I can but he sounded against it really.
Casino would have been good if it was about 2 hours shorter. That and it could have done without the scenes with just Sharon Stone and Joe Pesci. Yuck……
Carlos Silva got 4 years $48 million from the Mariners but Pete thinks Cashman really cares that to hand Santana $20 million.
later people
My Top 10 Movies:
1 Godfather
2.Godfather II
3. The General ( Buster Keaton silent film -1927 )
4.Goodfellas
5.Sleeper
6.French Connection
7.O Brother Where Art Thou
8.The Sting
9.The Hustler
10. National Lampoon’s Christmas Vacation (just had to throw that in there)
Santana is a proven commodity. The prospects are not.
Go with the proven Cy Young, award-winning LHP.
joltin joe,
lol. wasn’t ringo married to barbara bach?
also, who can forget “the gods must be crazy”?
if carlos silva is getting 12 million a year santana is going to want 25. I dont blame him
My Top 10 Movies.. no particular order
Titanic
Forest Gump
Fugitive (Harrison Ford version)
Saving Private Ryan
Cast Away
Payback
Godfather 2
Road to Perdition
Jerry McGuire
You’ve got mail
Heat was pretty good, too. That was the second movie that Pacino and DeNiro did in which they weren’t together in a single scene.
SJ,
How do you think the first base situation will play out? Is Duncan healthy? Gaimbi dh? Betimet capable of playing everyday(weight issues)? Will we see that first baseman from the minors before year end. Montero I believe?
I cant believe that Pete is still calling Hank Steinbrenner Little Stein. My 10 favorite movies in no order:
Empire Strikes Back
Apocalypse Now
Scent of a Woman
Spaceballs
LA Confidential
Rear Window
Blade Runner
Return of the King
American President
and one out of left field About a Boy with Hugh Grant (Absolutely hilarious)
Do you really hate Tom Hanks that much? All good,dont know about you got mail though.
I don’t see Boston giving Carlos $25M. I think that Hank has a set figure in his mind with or without giving up prospects. Let’s hope that Carlos has telepathic powers on top of being a left hander who can pitch 200 inning and strikeout guys at a rate that even God cannot fathom.
Oh, did I mention that Santana’s never been injured?
I still don’t see where the Twins have the leverage to get Hughes in this trade. The Sox offer isn’t real.
btw, nice to see a lot of movie fans here. I could have generated several lists of ten that I like about as much as the ten I posted.
I think in the movie HEAT they had dinner together(after being pulled over) where Pacino told Dinero that the next time he sees him hes going to bust him or kill him cant remember which.
mel,
Did you mention why he stopped throwing his slider down the stretch last year?
sos,
But were they in the scene together? Or did it cut back and forth?
mel-did you mean johan?
Cast Away had to be one of the worst movies I have ever seen. Wilson!!!
Now you are starting to sound like Louis Lane. They are not the same person. I believe when he pulled him over and when he walked away.
Phil
Are we supposed to read his mind why he stopped using his slider. Hell, did you watch every pitch of every game he was in to see if dared to throw the slider at all? Of course not, what we do know however is that he hasnt had a history of injuries and that he has proven to be very durable as well as dominant. He is still the best pitcher in baseball and well worth giving up Hughes to get.
I’ll never come up with a true top ten because I like so many movies for so many different reasons. Many of them have already been mentioned in this thread. Here’s 10 — in no particular order.
1. Casablanca
)
2. Gone with the Wind
3. Sleepers
4. The Usual Suspects
5. Top Gun (for the reasons I mentioned on yesterday’s thread
6. Blazing Saddles
7. There’s Something About Mary
8. Schindler’s List
9. One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest
10. The Princess Bride
11. Shrek
Pretty eclectic, eh? Had to go to 11. Sorry
Phil,
No, and I conveniently ignored his league high HR given up.
Btw, despite the massive plotholes, I thought I Am Legend was fantastic.
Apparently that movie originally called for Arnold Schwarzeneggar to play the main character. I can only imagine…..
“Fred! Eyyargghyarrrghghgh, what are you doing there! You’ve got to get out of there! Eeeyarghaarhghyagh!”
I keep having flashbacks to the Mets Generation Y trio. They were supposed to be the greatest thing ever.
At Hughes best future self, he can be Santana. Santana is already there.
We should start top 10 worst movie thread. I nominate Battlefield Earth.
Steve,
actually it’s pretty easy to go to MLB.com and check out Santana’s second half starts and see he wasn’t throwing the slider like he always has. It’s also easy to see the results that lead to.
And yes, in Heat, Pacino and Deniro shared a scene in the diner.
I don’t understand how anybody can say the Red Sox offer isn’t “real”. If the Twins said “yes”, the Red Sox would have made the trade.
That makes it a “real” offer.
Teams don’t just make bogus offers, and spend the time they do negotiating them, with other teams, just to jerk them around and say, “no”.
The Red Sox, like the Yankees, want Santana but on their terms.
Their offer is plenty “real”. Its just not good enough (at this time) to finalize the transaction.
My prediction for first base is Shelley Duncan, with a dose of Giambi, for the first few months, with Juan Miranda eventually becoming the platoon option (with Duncan) as the season progresses.
I don’t see Betemit as a viable first base option.
Steve – I put Xanadu on that list.
SJ: agreed. It was and is a real offer.
2nd Phil: The Yanks will be given ample opportunity to examine Johan and his medical records prior to making the deal. If you are insinuating injury is the reason the slider wasn’t thrown as much, that is.
Gigli.
SJ,
How much would you be willing to give up to acquire Santana? I’m just curious to see what your FINAL package for Santana would look like..
I can deal with giving up Hughes, but absolutely not Hughes + Kennedy/Horne/Jackson/Tabata. The question isn’t whether or not Santana is worth it.. The question is: why offer up that much when Boston refuses to put more than one of their top prospects in the deal?
Saucy: “i always put Half Baked down as my generations Cheech and Chong.” …I couldn’t agree more! How High does not even begin to compare, for me. The plot just got way too out-there and ludicrous for my tastes towards the end. All the dank nuggets in the world wouldn’t have been enough for me to suspend disbelief about some of the ridiculous plot twists…they were as “out there” as the continuum (sp?) transfunctioner in “Dude Where’s My Car!”
Besides, can anyone even name a classic quote from How High? Half Baked is filled with them! Everybody say it with me now….BO-DE-GA! Dave Chappelle and Breuer put Meth and Redman to shame! (Ironically, my friend once bumped into Randy Johnson at a Jim Breuer stand-up show in the city…isn’t that strange?! Unit of all people! I wonder if he puffs?)
Oh, and Mel, you’re right, Eddie Murphy definitely needs some love here too! My pick would be Coming To America, but I’m a youngin (realtively speaking) and haven’t seen any of his movies in a good decade, so some of his gems were probably lost on me at the time.
SJ44,
I see what you’re saying. So at the end of the day, because Smith wants something in return, he takes Boston’s sorry-ass offer? That’s depressing, but hardly ledge-worthy.
SJ44-
How good are you at Fantasy BB, who would be your top 5 players in a draft? 5 X 5 with both NL & AL players.
For Extra Credit, 10 more movies.
1. The ODESSA File
2. Casablanca
3. The Fighting 69th
4. Sergeant Rutledge
5. Charade
6. Bang The Drum Slowly
7. Imitation General
8. Don’t Go Near The water
9. I Was A Male War Bride
10. Brian’s Song (Original)
Worst: so bad it was good.
Plan 9 From Outer Space
anything by Ed Wood, Jr.
GB7-
Great call on Bang the Drum Slowly. Dogday Afternoon was one of my all time faves.
SOS27-
LOL. Hanks is not a slam dunk, but he is as close to a reason for me checking out a moving as any other actor.
Two other top 10 nominations w/o Hanks BTW:
Meet Joe Black
Duel
SJ,
Does Duncan stay at first in 09 and Miranda at first? Vice Versa? Or do you see them targeting Texiera?
“I can’t stand the woman that Chappelle’s character keeps going after. (Unsurprisingly, I forgot all of the characters’ names.)”
Well I’ll give you a hint…she has a namesake in almost every Cypress Hill song ever written.
“Guys, meet Mary Jane.”
“Yeah, that’s what I’m sayin’…we ’bout to go toke up, B!”
…which of course brings to mind my all-time favorite line from the movie: “YES! CUBAN B!” hahaha…good times.
Oh, and I too am ashamed of myself for forgetting Friday, another one of my all-time favorites. Janet Jackson?! Daaaamn, more like Freddie Jackson!
GB7,
No “Das Boot”?
Other Phil, you are the second Phil.
SJ, if the Red Sox really wanted him they would throw in another one of their overrated prospects. Hughes is more valuable than the entire package they have offered (ie, the Yanks wouldn’t trade Hughes to the Sox for what the Sox are offering the Twins). The only thing the Sox have that’s at all close to Hughes is Buchholz, and he’s never been on the table. Just as Hughes should never be on the table when the other team is offering crap.
or “Hunt for Red October”?
Worst: so bad it was good.
Toxic Avenger
No wonder I was confused. I thought Phil had a split personality. “Keep Phil” posts followed by “Get Johan at all costs” posts.
Please modify handles?
2nd Phil: You are just as guilty of what you say the Red Sox are doing – overvaluing prospects.
Ten More
The Adventures of Robin Hood
Once Upon a Time in the West
Dr. Strangelove
M*A*S*H
Out of the Past
Duck Soup
Crippled Avengers
North By Northwest
Rear Window
A Christas Carol (Alistair Sim version)
As for worst movie in the world, I’m gonna have to go with Blair Witch Project. It made me want to punch babies. Of course anything with Bennifer or anything from the Terms of Endearment/Fried Green Tomatoes/Boys On The Side tandem deserves a spot too. And I also completely loathed the Matrix and all its sequels.
Blair Witch 2.
How about some great B Horror movies:
Basket Case
I Spit on your Grave
Reanimator
Caddyshack 2.
Every team in baseball has a “need” for Santana.
So there is no reason to believe that if they can get a deal that they feel is favorable than they will pull the trigger on it. Think of it this way – if you were the sox and Smith said yes to that package wouldn’t you take it?
I’m not sure why so many yankee fans think the sox offer is just garbage in terms of talent. That’s just not true. The Sox offer is not a bad one in at all.
Clearly there is no player on Hughes level on their side of the deal. However, they are offering several good to very good young players.
People around baseball (not just sox fans) like ellsbury a lot. Jed Lowerie had a .900 OPS as a shortstop between AA and AAA. Very, very few shortstop prospects put up numbers even close to that this year. That’s a major position need for the twins. Bowden and Masterson are considered to be very close to what Alan Horne is by many people (not me personally but that’s not really relevant).
Here’s the thing – if the Twins really don’t think much of Melky – then the Yankee offer isn’t necessarily hands down better than the sox. And its not unreasonable to think the twins view Melky as a decent player but nothing special (that’s how many, many yankee fans look at him isn’t it?)
The Sox made a good offer. So have the yankees. They are different offers however, and Smith may truly like what the sox are offerring, especially if he doesn’t like Melky.
No, little Phil, I am examining the minor league records and possible projections of all the “prospects” involved. People who think prospects are just prospects are rationalizing giving them away for players they overvalue. Phil Hughes in the minors, young for every level put up a 2.03 era and a .86 WHIP. That’s insanely good. And he as our best pitcher in September and the playoffs. The Sox are offering nothing that goof. Even Buchholz who had minor league numbers of around ere 2.46 and WHIP 1.00 and was 22 months older than Hughes throughout and thus not as good a prospect if off limits in this trade. Hughes should be off limits. If we don’t get Santana, big whoop. We’ll have all the cost controlled quality innings we didn’t trade for him for years to come.
Jacoby Ellsbury is not crap. Don’t let your hatred for the Red Sox blind you when evaluating players. That kid can play. I’d take him on the Yankees right now.
Lester? I am not as big a fan of his as others. However, there are people in the game who think a lot of him. Reasonable minds can disagree on him.
I am a HUGE fan of Buchholz. I think he’s better than Hughes. If that kid stays healthy, he has the chance to be something special. His stuff, like Joba’s, is electric.
I like Lowrie. I don’t think he’s an all star but, he will be a good ML middle infielder.
The Single A guys they have talked about I have not seen play.
The bottom line is, the Red Sox don’t need Santana. The Yankees do. If the Red Sox can get him, they will do it but, they won’t disrupt a World Championship team to do it.
The Yankees are looking to get to where the Red Sox are right now. Meaning, they will have to give up more to get him. Its just the way it is.
My final offer would depend on the Twins needs. Since the Winter Meetings, Dan Haren and Miguel Tejada were trading for an awful lot (especially in Haren’s case) prospects.
If I’m Bill Smith, that empowers me to ask for more for Santana.
Buddy,
I’m not into fantasy sports. Tough enough for me to follow the real thing. lol
SOS,
It all depends how Duncan and Miranda play. Its impossible to think about 2009 until you see what unfolds in 2008.
2nd Phil: You must be insecure to start throwing insults…no need for that.
Your opinion of Hughes is just that. It has to do with the Twins’ opinion of the packages. Throwing out two stats does not justify or negate an entire package. Nor do those stats guarantee they can be replicated on the major league level.
SJ44: To your knowledge, where do Duncan and Miranda (and Betemit for that matter) stand defensively? This whole 1b defense conundrum is probably not as big a deal as I’m making it (nothing else to do in the offseason right?) but it does worry me somewhat. I guess I don’t really understand why, last season, it seemed to be such a big issue to get a decent glove at 1st, and this year, it doesn’t seem to be a concern of Cash’s at all. I fear this could come back to bite us when the low/ off-line throws from Jeter and A-Rod begin and we have no one who can make plays on them…
My favorite from a poster on 38 pitches….
“Dear Curt-
How does it feel to know everything? Can you tell me what I am going to get for Christmas and how many kids I will have?
Happy Holidays and thanks for all the insight!”
The biggest mistake folks make when discussing minor league prospects is looking solely at stats.
In the minors, stats don’t tell the entire story.
Its about development and projecting players beyond where they are at the present time. Its not just stats.
Many of these guys are playing in poorly lit and maintained ballparks. So, their night game numbers may not be great.
Some teams have terrible infields, making evaluating defensive skills a crapshoot.
Its more than just looking at stats and determining whether or not a player has upside.
Austin Jackson is the classic example of this. He started the year hitting in the .260’s at Charleston and wasn’t playing well at all.
Just looking at the stats, one could have concluded he was in “bust mode”.
Yet, the Yankees determined he needed to be challenged so they promoted him. His stats didn’t merit promotion but, the Yankees felt the promotion could help him.
He took off after the promotion and hasn’t looked back.
Anyone know why Pete stopped refering to Schill as 38pitches.com?
Phil(IN BOLD),Phil(IN BOLD)? Man im confused.
Whos the GOOD PHIL and whos the bad?
Will the real Phil please stand up.
Defensively will be a bit of a conundrum at first for the Yankees.
Its why I will be interested to see if they add a defensive oriented guy at first on their list of non-roster invitees for ST.
Miranda and Duncan are ok but, not great at first. Giambi is a disaster and Betemit hasn’t played too much at the position. I am not sure if he is playing first in Winter Ball.
That may be an issue but, I don’t think defense at first base is as big a deal as some make it out to be.
Here’s a way to tell between the two Phil’s
Phil’s link works
Phil’s link doesn’t work
38pitches spells Pettitte wrong in his blog. Good move, jerk off.
a bridge too far
short circuit
lucky number slevin
se7en
mirrormask
princess bride
american history x
out cold
clockwork orange
silence of the lambs
Maybe Little Phil should change his handle to Phil McCrackin.
Bash 38 pitches all you want but on this blog, most people spell Pettitte wrong, also.
FYI, the reason I don’t change my “handle” is because I’ve been using it since day 1 and hope Pete makes registration happen. Too many times there are “fake” posters. We’ve had fake Bobcats, fake SJ44s, etc.
“Can you tell me what I am going to get for Christmas and how many kids I will have?”
— That is a GREAT line!
on the one hand, it’s great for pete that his blog is so popular. on the other, it’s getting tougher to wade through comments to find decent stuff. there are usually at least 200 comments per post, and probably 5-10 worth reading among them. it’s headache-inducing.
the bottom line on santana is, if he winds up in boston, the yankees are behind the eight ball big time for the foreseeable future. that simple. it’s great that everyone’s so in love with hughes, kennedy, horne and the rest of the prospects, but what are the odds ALL of them pan out? hell, what are the odds even one of them really reaches his potential? not great. santana is a proven commodity. hughes is not. kennedy is not.
if cashman and co have made up their mind about their offer, that’s fine. telling smith “take it or leave it” is fine. but they should be fully prepared to lose santana to the red sox in that instance, and that puts an awful lot of pressure on hughes, et al. those are pretty big expectations to meet, being the guy(s) who the yankees loved so much that they wouldn’t pull the trigger on a deal for the best pitcher in baseball. 12-11, 4.60 ERA isn’t going to cut it.
As we are also discussing movies, I’ll throw my 2 cents in. Some of my favorites…. I tend to have eccentric tastes.
Chinatown
City of God
8 and a half
Annie Hall
Casablanca
Citizen Cane
The Graduate
Rushmore
Fitzcarraldo
Persona
Santana:
If it’s true that the Yankees really want to unload salary before bringing on another 13.5M in Santana- If that’s so then Matsui makes the most sense, since Mussina or Giambi can’t be traded and their salaries unloaded.
However Matsui would need to waive his full NTC, and if you look at the West coast teams[places where he might do that], I can’t think of one that would pay the entire salary[ie. Padres, A's], need him [Angels,Dodgers], want him[Mariners-have Ichiro] or have players the Yankees would be able to get in return[Giants-no to Cain & Lincecum]. That leaves East coast which in my opinion would only be the Mets, where he might waive the NTC, and they don’t need him.
Step two: if Cabrera is in the deal, it means more $$ to sign a defensive CF’er who can produce as much as Cabrera, and who would that be? Cameron? Corey Patterson?
Therefore, Hughes/Cabrera/Kennedy or Horne/ and a fourth good prospect is way too much to give up for the best lefty in the game, who had a 3.33ERA and gave up 33 HR’s [9 of them to lefties] and sign him for another 6-7 years beyond 2008.
This trade does not make sense for the Yankees, in terms of money and value. The Diamondbacks got Dan Haren and a reasonable contract for players, none of which are ready toeven start for the Twins[ maybe for the lowly A's]. If Santana really wants to play for the Yankees[ which I doubt thats the only team he's interested in] wait till FA, and if he has a stellar year, yes you’ll pay more, but some 70M will be off the books!
Please feel free to agree to disagree!!
Don’t knock Clay Buchholz talent.
Unfortunately, there’s a very good chance he’s going to be a significant headache for the yankees for years to come.
Buchholz right now throws two secondary pitches that rate as a 70-75 on the 20-80 scouting scale. On top of that he throws a fastball that probably rates as a 65-70.
He’s not just good. He has phenomenal stuff. To have two secondary pitches that good at his age is really rare.
You could probably count on less than two hands the number of guys in the majors whose stuff rates like that. There are not many major league pitchers (even very good ones) who have two secondary pitches like his change up and curve ball.
Much has been made of him being older than Hughes. That’s true – but he’s already at where hughes still needs to get to – 3 dominant pitches. Not many pitchers, even all star caliber ones, every develop three truly dominant pitches. Yes Buchholz fast ball command needs to get better but he has fantastic stuff.
Him and Beckett are going to be a very, very difficult obstacle to overcome unless one of them gets injured.
Throw in Santana – the Sox could have 3 of the ten best pitchers in all of baseball on their staff at once.
Buchholz is that good. True frontline, ace caliber stuff.
Ok, So I have a question if you can’t look at stats alone when considering a good/great prospect. Then how would you decide if you haven’t watched them play? And what would be the reasoning why the Yankees wouldn’t release info about minor league free agents that have been signed?
The “greatest” pitcher of our generation, one who has publicly claimed he wants to go into the HoF with a NY logo on his cap, is named prominently in a report that would suggest his career second half bloom is at least in part down to the illegal use of PED.
Someone from a profession that has chosen to hide its collective head in the sand on the subject of PED for the past 15 years makes some noise, and your response is ZZZZZZ? Why are you not all over him to get the details – has he ever suspected that Clemens was a user? Did any other player ever mention Clemens name to him as a PED user – I am sitting a keyboard with no journalistic skills and I can think of a thousand questions that I would want to ask him – and you are a professional journalist – my access to the players – and all you can think of is ZZZZZZ?
Perhaps it is because you are over whelmed by views from other players who are close to Clemens? What are other player’s views… A-Rod, Jeter, Pettite, Posada, Torre – you know, the guys that lobbied hard for him to return this past year to help save us – unless their views are being kept from us, they are completely silent on the subject – silent! Yet one guy who has publicly acknowledged the influence of Clemens on his (borderline) HOF career has chosen to make his views public, and yet you – as a “professional” journalist choose to react with a ZZZZZZ – for real?
Get over the fact that a Red Sox player is the source – if someone in this profession wants to talk about this, any chance that you might do your job and try and get us some information from him to help make us more informed? Ask him the blunt hard question – so Schill, which players on which teams do you know were using PED? If he won’t give interviews, call him out as the hypocrite he is, but at least ask the questions for us.
Mel,
“Das Boot”, along with “The Enemy Below” and “Thunder Road” will be in my next assignment.
kasey
December 20th, 2007 at 5:57 pm
on the one hand, it’s great for pete that his blog is so popular. on the other, it’s getting tougher to wade through comments to find decent stuff. there are usually at least 200 comments per post, and probably 5-10 worth reading among them. it’s headache-inducing.
the bottom line on santana is, if he winds up in boston, the yankees are behind the eight ball big time for the foreseeable future. that simple. it’s great that everyone’s so in love with hughes, kennedy, horne and the rest of the prospects, but what are the odds ALL of them pan out? hell, what are the odds even one of them really reaches his potential? not great. santana is a proven commodity. hughes is not. kennedy is not.
if cashman and co have made up their mind about their offer, that’s fine. telling smith “take it or leave it†is fine. but they should be fully prepared to lose santana to the red sox in that instance, and that puts an awful lot of pressure on hughes, et al. those are pretty big expectations to meet, being the guy(s) who the yankees loved so much that they wouldn’t pull the trigger on a deal for the best pitcher in baseball. 12-11, 4.60 ERA isn’t going to cut it.
________________________________________________
Kasey, you’ve finally posted something that I can agree with you on. And, thank you for showing a perfect example.
Other Phil. You called me 2nd Phil. So I didn’t start any insults. btw, you must be pretty insecure to have felt insulted, though I am not surprised that you were didn’t try to counter my Hughes>Buchholz case.
SJ,
Ellsbury isn’t crap compared to other OF’s with no power, but he’s crap compared to Hughes. This is supposed to be a top OF prospect yet he hit 2 hr’s in AAA over the course of several hundred AB’s there. I don’t see even a hint of greatness in anything he has done. What Hughes did, at younger ages, dwarfs his accomplishments at older ages in the minors.
3,200 words!
Sounds like Schilling has a Roger man-crush.
Neil,
The problem with Schilling is that nobody takes him seriously outside of Boston because he’s an arrogant blowhard that likes to hear himself talk.
It’s not just NYY fans, the vast majority of non-Red Sox fans can’t stand the guy and believe he’s full of himself.
I think Pete’s response is on par with what most baseball fans think of Curt Schilling.
Thanks to Matsui’s status in Japan, he rakes in some money, so his actual cost is less than 13 million a year
Giambi on the other hand….well, damn, nobody wants him, I assume.
Other Phil: you missed the point. It has to do with the total package and the Twins’ perceived value. It is not about just Hughes vs. Bucholz. I don’t know who’s better, actually. Depends on what expert you asked. Some same Hughes while others say the Red Sox prospect.
GreenBeret7-
one of my brothers was in the 5th. That said the john wayne movie had some tiny moments, but my brother thought it was an outright comedy (worse than rambo II), especially the Georgia pine forest they used to represent a triple canopy jungle.
Can anyone provide a thumbnail review of “The Big Lebowski”
I always hear someone rave about it, but nobody can ever describe it. I’m just wary of any John Goodman films.
jonnycat-
“Citizen Cane” – is that a porno??
NYPD113th-
do you guys receive a bonus “pad” this time of the year??
Several classics I forgot earlier: Clerks, Empire Records, Heathers, Dazed & Confused, Mallrats (and to think that I was a North Jersey mallrat myself in my younger years, at the time that movie came out. For shame!)
As for the Moose, I think we *could* trade him to certain teams if we really wanted to, but why trade him? Especially when we will have at least 2 kids with innings caps in the rotation. Also the only team I’ve heard has shown interest in him is Philly (I assume teams outside of NY & PA wouldn’t even bother, since they know he’ll never agree to go there) and I can’t think of a single solitary player Philly has that they’d trade for Moose, that I might actually want. I know Mussina is not a fan favorite on this blog but I think we need him in 2008. Keeping him benefits us more than any realistically possible trade scenario would, IMO.
There’s a whole minor league career of evidence that Hughes, who is almost two years younger than Buchholz, yet has outperformed him at every level is better. It’s been chic to discard all of that and say Buchholz is better cause he didn’t get injured throwing his no-hitter. But it’s pretty shallow. Buchholz was the one with the sore arm at the end of the year and Hughes was the one with the great September/October.
Anyway, as per total package, Kennedy is better than Lester who has very poor command. His command is the opposite of Kennedy’s in fact. So, it seems like the Yanks could build a deal around Kennedy and Melky. The Sox offers don’t have Lester and Ellsbury in the same package. There is no reason to put Hughes on the table for the 32 Santana starts that are left on the Twins deal with Santana, especially considering the 120M+ they’ll have to throw in of their own to actually get the deal completed. 150 more or less free Hughes starts are worth more than anything the Twins can offer us.
Blondie:
The Coen brothers love the literature and movies of the `30’s and `40’s. The Big Lebowski is their version of Raymond Chandler’s The Big Sleep, but on mushrooms. I hope that helps.
How can cash not want santana for six yrs and 120 million – to me, thats a bargain when looking at what barry zito recieved. Zito isnt even a tenth of the pitcher santana is and santana is not only the best pitcher in the baseball in his prime but he is arguably one of the best pitchers in history when looking at his career so far and considering he has done all of it in the american league on a relatively mediocre team outside of him (esp before morneau and mauer arrived.) And is 120 million even THAT much for the yanks? They just gave arod 300 million! Is santana not worth less than half of what arod is worth? I think he could be worth MORE in the playoffs. And we gave more than 120 million in salary to Johnson, Pavano, Wright and Weaver combined and Johan would prolly give us more wins than all of them did combined.
The yanks went 37 and 19 without a lefty in the pen because u dont need a lefty in the pen. BUT YOU NEED GOOD PITCHERS in the pen and i dont see many if any.
Gotta go see my nephew’s christmas pageant. In the meantime peace on earth, and good will to the other Phil. Seriously, have fun everyone!
Prince,
That article does not change my mind – sheff is a future hall of famer and not too old to be considered done after only missing less than a yr with a legitimate injury. Last yr, sheff hit 25 homers in less than 500 at bats with 75 rbis. He also had a 378 on base percentage, 107 runs and 22 stolen bases – Sheff had more homers and a better obp than abreu in over 100 less at bats. You add 100 plus at bats and stick him in the heart of the yanks lineup last yr and he prolly would beat abreu in runs, rbis and stolen bases as well. Meanwhile, sanchez is 23 and has been injured pretty much every season he has played and the most innings he has EVER pitched in a single season is 123. Compare that to Phil Hughes who is 3 yrs younger and Hughes has also pitched 120 innings tops (they are at the same pace yet three yrs different in ages which shows how much sanchez has been out.) Kennedy is the same age and is on the verge of pitching 200 next yr (pitched close to 160 last yr.) Joba will pitch at least 160 nhext yr as a starter and he is one yr younger than sanchez. Sanchez, will prolly top out at 120 again next yr if he makes it that long and he will be 24 already.
Not including injury, I look at sanchez stats. I know that many scouts rave about his raw stuff but when you look at how it has translated on the playing field thus far, he hasnt proved much of anything – 70 solid innings in double A in 2006 is his only truly brilliant showing. All his other stints in every type of opposition in the minors ranges from mediocre to flat out awful. When he was promoted to triple A in 2006, after a fantastic half of a season in double A, he got hit pretty hard. He also has shown pretty horrible control to go with his awesome stuff which prolly accounts for many of his poor performances. He has averaged 4.5 walks per nine IN THE MINORS. He also lets up hits – over 8 per 9 innings in the minors. Im sorry but just because scouts say he is good doesnt mean he will succeed at the major-league level esp since he hasnt really succeeded at all at the minor league level. And trading away sheff (A HARD HITTING RIGHTIE THE TIGERS STUCK RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THEIR LINEUP) wasnt the best of moves. We gift wrapped the only thing the tigers were lookign for last off season after they kicked us out of the playoffs.
And by the way, even the article which was supposed to prove to me that sanchez is a great acquisition mentions a serious injury sanchez had in his one showing at yankee stadium. This guy is an injury magnet and he is well over-weight. Being injured and placed on the dl eight times in less than five seasons in the minors is no coincidence or run of bad luck – it is a sign. He might as well have a sign on his forehead saying train-wreck. Dont get me wrong, I am sure the scouts are correct and this kid had tremendous talent. But absolutely no location combined with many serious injuries and a weight problem equals never making an impact on our major-league club to me atleast. And who cares if he throws 96? Thas really all they say postively about sanchez in the article after discussing how devastating hughes pitches are. This article completely fails to mention the pitchers that actually made an impact last yr after starting in the minors (two guys called ian kennedy and joba chamberlain you may have heard of them) or our possible future superstar and possible future closer – delin betances and mark melancon or our future center and rightfielders – jose tabata and austin jackson. Those are the guys they should be writing about if they want to discuss the depth and greatness of the yankee farm system – not a guy we have yet to see in pinstripes .
With the rising cost of salaries, both A-Rod’s and Santana’s proposed extension might be bargains five years from now. One never knows.
Ditto how the prospects will turn out. One never knows.
However, there is only one Santana and a number of prospect RHPs in the Yanks system.
It is a tough call for Cash and Hank.
Anyone have ducttape for The Mouth?
I agree phil – it comes down to the fact that we are paying all these prospects for no more than one yr worth of Johan santana and no more. Hughes is not worth one yr of santana. I agree that a deal with kennedy and melky certainly should be able to cotend with the offer the sox are currently putting up – if lester and elsbury are not in the same package and buckholz is not in any package the same should apply with us. Hughes shouldnt be in any package and kennedy is def comparable to lester – probably better based on the stats.
Blondie (has more fun)
December 20th, 2007 at 6:32 pm
GreenBeret7-
one of my brothers was in the 5th. That said the john wayne movie had some tiny moments, but my brother thought it was an outright comedy (worse than rambo II), especially the Georgia pine forest they used to represent a triple canopy jungle.
_____________________________________________________
No question that the movie had some editing and technical problems, but, I still enjoy it. We all laughed about it, but, still watched it 40-50 times. The area they were supposedly in was pretty accurate, though. I spent my time in the Central Highlands. I remember the tea plantations well. They grew some great “tea” there.
The US Attorney unsealed Jason Grimsley’s affidavit a little while ago.
Clemens and Pettitte were NOT named in the affidavit.
Remember folks coming on here using as “proof” re: Clemens and Pettitte the Grimsley affidavit? Well, they were wrong.
Its why its always best to wait for facts on the serious stuff in sports than buying into speculation.
Jason Grimsley ratted out a lot of players. He didn’t say anything about Clemens and Pettitte.
Ahhh, the mushrooms – thanks Phil
See. People love the movie, but wary of the Coen Bros. after “Barton Fink,” I simple ask them, “what’s the movie about” and they’re unable to offer any summary.
Clemens not on the Grimsley affidavit, the former head trainer on the Blue Jays saying he didn’t see anything out of the ordinary with regards to Clemens but did have a problem with McNamee. Yet, Mitchell is still the authoritative voice, even though he has financial gains to be made from the Boston Red Sox.
ESPN reporters sounded as though they thought the reading of the affidavit was wrong, but what do they do? They go on about Mitchell – that he might not have had a copy of the sealed affidavit from Grimsley. Color me shocked that Mitchell might not have his facts right.
dave where exactly did you want sheffield to play last year ? we have way too many outfielders NOW, let alone with sheffield around. he was out pretty much for the year so cash$ went out and got abreu. I have no problem with sheffield not on this team, do I miss his swing and production? hell ya but I liked the trade at the time and now. sanchez is high risk high reward, he could be our future closer, he had many injuries but they should all be part of the past now since got TJ surgery.
SJ44
I never heard it was unsealed, which isn’t shocking. Since the media runs with a story, than drops it without a follow up.
The hidden fear of every baseball executive in the game is letting a promising prospect go in a deal or the deal is not consummated.
They hold their breath for a period of time wondering if the prospects will blossom in another organization thus making their judgement look bad unless the player they dealt for is an overwhelming success.
No executive ever escapes what goes with every deal.
Err, Sheffield missed a good number of games last year as well. Why have another player on the roster that keeps breaking down like Giambi is?
Jennifer, it was just unsealed today. A couple of hours ago at most.
ahh okay thanks. I was kind of crazy at work. Trying to finish everything before I’m off for 11 days!
So I couldn’t read too much.
I just don’t see Santana over the next 5 years being the Santana of the last 5 years. There’s a lot of wear on that arm. That 0 inning jump from ‘03 to ‘04 was a big jump. I’m very sceptical about Latin players and there ages. Nearly 950 innings in 4 years? 25 years ago, that’s a light load, but, not the way pitchers are today. Losing the money is one thing, but, losing the talent and the money is a different matter. I’d be just as happy waiting and taking my chances. If Santana loses much on his fastball, that change is what he’s going to have to rely on. I don’t think he’d go to Boston to pitch, personally. That place will kill most lefties making 17 starts a year, there. And giving up two high end pitchers plus a center fielder and another top of the line outfielder is just too much to pay. NYY has a lot of outstanding young players on the way in about 2-3 years, but, they are still thin in the outfield, unless they start moving guys like Sublett, Hilligoss and Snyder to the outfield.
that should read: 70 inning jump from ‘03 to ‘04.
Jennifier-
you going anywhere for the holidays??
A point – Sheff had 500 at bats last yr and a legit injury in 2006. Comparing him to Giambi is a MASSIVE stretch.
The todd, my point is not that we should have kept sheff altho i prefer his production to abreu’s because of the power. My point is that we shouldnt have traded him to the tigers for sanchez. Sanchez isnt a high risk high reward. He is a ridiculous risk without really knowing what kind of reward he would be. He doesnt have the nessecary control to be a closer and he cant stay healthy for even one full season it seems. I just dont see why we would trade sheff- our second best power hitter outside of arod to the team that had just knocked us out of the playoffs for a 23 yr old who had been on the dl eight times and it was known already that he would need TJ surgery in the near future. We could have got something useful for sheff like a bullpen piece and not traded him to the tigers. I just didnt like the trade, i didnt mind that he was traded.
Like Pete said, make the trade or don’t make the trade; there’s really nothing left to say on the matter, is there? It was an exciting proposition a month ago; now it’s just yawn-inducing.
Schilling is so full of himself it’s comic. He has a right to his opinion; I have a right not to care about his opinion. At least he pointed out he’s an equal opportunity moralist. (Bonds, Canseco & Clemens)
I’m impressed that so many of you can recall so many movies. I have a lot of favorites, but much like GreenBeret7, it depends on my mood, and how my brain is working on a particular day as to which I would name in a top 10 list. Yesterday I went to a website to check out what movies actually came out in the decade of the 80s. It was a refresher course. Since my kids were born, if I see a non-family (read Disney) movie at all, it’s at home on either On-Demand or HBO or I just happen upon it while channel surfing. I can count the number of times hubby and I have gone on a movie date in the last 10 years. (If we do go out, it’s usual dinner, where we can have conversation.)
So, all that a long-windedness aside, 10 movies I have enjoyed:
Gone With The Wind
When Harry Met Sally
Sleepless in Seattle
The Way We Were
Casablanca
Rocky (the First)
Midnight Cowboy
M*A*S*H*
Toy Story
Funny Girl
The Sound of Music
Oh, What’s the one with Marisa Tomei – ????? Love that one,too.
Bonnie & Clyde
So, I can’t count.
Probably day trips, no where on vacation though. Which is just fine with me. I want to relax!!
Marisa Tomei-
you mean, “My Cousin, Vinny”
EPIPHANY
Hughes + Melky + prospect
Greenberet – there is no real sign that Johan is going to get any worse. He had one off yr after an amazing three yr runs and his off yr was better than 95 percent of MLB pitchers best seasons. And yes, he has pitched well over 200 innings the last four yrs but before that he had never pitched even close to 200. And he is still very, very young where most pitchers these days are pitching until they are 40 and he is only 28. The next five yrs of his career will be his prime – he may not win two more cy youngs but i would bet he will be pretty damn close or he could even win three. Their arent a tremendous number of innings on his arm – not like that of clemens when we signed him or even pettitte or Moose when we signed them. I understand those were one and two yr contracts but when Mike first came to the yanks in 2001, he already had seven yrs in the majors of pitched 200 plus innings. I know Johan pitches harder but look at what clemens, randy and pedro did from the ages of 28 to 35. And they all had a ton of innings under their belt at that point in the majors – far more than johan currently had. Pedro win the cy young twice and came in second, third and fourth the other three yrs out of the six. Roger dominated four out of the six yrs winning the cy young once and coming in second and third and then, won the cy young twice the next two yrs after that all pre-roids. In the yrs 29-35, randy won the cy young once, came in third once and second twice. All those guys pretty much had the same amount of innings under their belt as johan does not give or take and each of them was hurt for part of a season or less in the seven yrs from 28-35. Those are pitchers prime yrs usually even if they have 1,000 plus innings already.
Agree about the prospects – it isnt worth it to give up hughes for a yr of johan esp if we can get him next off season. But the money is no deterrent nor is the numbers of innings he has pitched or the legnth of the contract being seven or more yrs. He is one of the few pitchers that is actually going to be worth the money he is payed and the contract prolly wont look bad even when he is making 30 million in his last yr or two of the contract.
Dave, Sheffield is another alleged juicer, and he has now had two years in a row with injuries. Giambi is breaking down and can’t remain healthy – and his injuries are just as legitimate as Sheffields.
Last year Sheffy had wrist problems, this year shoulder, what will it be next year, knees? Back? Elbow? Sheffield is breaking down and he isn’t flexible with where he will play.
He was a great batter, he can still swing a bat, but last year he didn’t contribute to the Yankees team, in fact part of the post season woes last year were because of putting Matsui and Sheffield back into the lineup. This year Sheffield was out for a number of games where his bat might have made a difference and put them in the lead in the wild card.
Giambi is an admitted Juicer. Sheffield is one who is suspected of being a juicer. They break down. That is the comparision.
HUGHES + MELKY > PROSPECT
I meant to add that Moose had 7 yrs of 200 plus innnings before we signed him to a six yr deal at the age of 33… Johan has 4 yrs of 200 plus innings and that is somehow a deterrent at the age of 28 if we signed him to a six or seven yr extention. It shouldnt even be a question
Blondie
YES! That’s it. My Cousin Vinny. I love that movie. Thanks.
Dave I agree with you on the money regarding Santana. I think that is a smokescreen anyway. Some of the comments from Hank are probably a smokescreen.
I think Hughes shows a lot of talent, and it has been tested a bit in the majors. He had his struggles, but the injuries didn’t help. If he had a full year that was healthy the Yankees wouldn’t give him a thought if he was pitching to potential. Eiland coming up helped Hughes tremendously as well.
I would rather see some deal worked out with Kennedy and others over Hughes being the centerpiece. I think Kennedy is probably under-rated as Buchholz is over-rated.
When all is said and done though, it is a crap shoot with what will pan out.
It’s not the money, it’s the prospects and the flexibility that cheap young players give the Yankees when signing free agents at a time when 60% of other major league teams have the money to sign the same superstar free agents as the Yankees (though not as many of them).
For instance, when Texeira comes onto the market, there will be at least 10 teams willing to meet his eventual asking price (I bet). I don’t care how much they pay Santana, but it all depends on whether Hughes + Melky + 2 mid range prospects get it done. I say no to Hughes and Kennedy.
A point – Giambi is three yrs younger than sheff. Giambi hasnt played a full season since 2003 at the age of 34. He was also already completely falling off that yr when he batting average plumetted from over 300 for four consecutive yrs all the way down to 250 where it has pretty much stayed in the last four injury plagued seasons where he has been on the dl for every major body part.
Sheff had to have surgery in his wrist in 2006 after colliding with shea hillenbrank and trying to play through it for the first couple of months of the season. So at the age of 38, Gary sheffield sat out for the majority of the season for the first time in a decade. Last yr, sheff had a minor injury but had 500 at bats and he only missed 20 games AT THE AGE OF 39!!!
Giambi is an admitted steroid user and sheff wasnt even on the Mitchell report and has absolutely no real evidence against him that he used roids other than random rumors which isnt very substantial especially with this witch hunt going on currently.
You cant compare sheffs injuries at the age of 38 and 39 or his one season out of action or his rumored roid use to Giambi’s constant nagging injuries involving every major body part at the age of 34 through 38 and his admitted and uncontested steroid use.
A-point you are right on point with your last comment. I think kennedy is so under-rated and lester so over-rated that kennedy is probabaly in fact, better than lester in the long-run.
Eiland will certainly or should certainly help Hughes out. I think without the injuries, Hughes would have competed with joba for best story of the season. Hughes is probably going to be the best pitcher on the team for a long, long tme and you cant just trade that for one season of johan esp considering that the sox arent even putting buckholz in any deal for santana and buckholz isnt as good as hughes.
Dave, Sheffield is aging, and Sheffield has been rumored for quite a while about using PEDs. Giambi is showing the effects of his use, the speculations I am putting out are that it could be that Sheffield is having it come to bear now.
By Schilling’s logic and seeing he’s on a roll of throwing former teammates under a bus, shouldn’t Eric Gagne surrender his MVP Award of a few years back ?
Doreen, have you heard Joe Pesci’s alblum from that movie? It’s called Vincent LaGuardia Gambini Sings Just For You. Great stuff. Pesci was also a guitarist with Joey Dee And The Starlighters (Peppermint Twist)
Yea I know what you are saying but the more reasonable explanation is that sheff’s injuries or his one when he was 38 was due to aging and just a fluke injury caused by a collision that he tried to play on which resulted in surgery and him being sidelined the whole yr. Giambi;s injuries are just so clearly due to roid usage because it occured soon after roids became illegal and random testing was instituted – his are nagging and constant and injuries that have sidelined him for four straight seasons. Sheff is just pretty old and has been playing forever – i think if his body is breaking down, its because he is already almost 40 yrs old. I dunno – it could be due to roids but if it was i feel like it would have started when he stopped taking them which would have prolly been around 2003 when they made them illegal in baseball.
I think what we saw with Hughes at the beginning and end of the last season is more what can be expected of him. When Eiland came up there was a steady improvement with him. He spotted right away that Hughes had certain problems that he was able to correct.
I think Gator was a great pitcher, but just didn’t have it as a coach. Eiland might make a big difference this coming season with his new role. Eiland wasn’t a great pitcher, he never had the talent that Gator did, but maybe that makes him the better coach.
Buchholz gets a lot of pumping up from his no-hitter. I think he can have a decent career ahead of him, but I don’t think he will be better than Hughes. Kennedy is a different type of pitcher. A control type pitcher can have a longer career because they don’t rely on the fastball so when speed drops off it doesn’t affect them as much.
The thing I like about the three kids in the rotation is each gives a different look and style. That combination can be tough on batters because they have more adjustments to make.
I believe it was a Cy Young that Gagne won a few years back, wasn’t it? Which really only makes 38donuts.com look like an even bigger (figuratively & literally) hypocrite; why is he so concerned with the fate of Clemens’ Cy Young(s) but not Gagne’s?
Dave, I can see your points as well. I fully agree that Giambi is breaking down from the PED usage.
Sheffield missing a year at his age hurts even more because it affects conditioning and timing, which drops off as you age anyway.
And the plot thickens further …………….
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3163889
38pitches has Clemens envy. In some ways I can understand what Schilling is saying, more than likely it reflects the “fallen idol” status that Clemens had with Schilling.
The thing is, even if Clemens used, which I am not convinced 100% that he did, how do you discount the amount of additional wins or hits? Its just like Bonds. How many HR were hit from talent vs. roids? 40%? 50%? 10%?
Schilling needs to learn that while you might have opinions, sometimes its better to write it up and file it for a while, rather than put it out there. Heat of the moment comments are those you usually wish you could take back.
I call it constipation of thought, diarreah of words.
Clemens’ attorney, Rusty Hardin, released a statement Thursday night: “When this grossly inaccurate story broke in October 2006, Roger said it was untrue and the Los Angeles Times chose not to believe him. As the record now clearly proves, Roger was telling the truth then, just as he continues to tell the truth today. Roger Clemens did not take steroids, and anybody who says he did had better start looking for a hell of a good lawyer.”
I thought when Clemens had released the part about responding at the appropriate time in the appropriate manner that it meant a law suit was coming. This helps confirm my thoughts.
One day the Red Sox PED abuse will be exposed (Manny, Papi, Varitek, Millar, Youkilis, Nancy, etc.).
Will curt turn in his world series rings then??
Not only that, Matt Williams from the 2001 D-Backs has been exposed as a Juicer. Where’s Curt’s indignation?
The more relevant question so far is “do you know a more beautiful woman than Diane Kruger?”
I haven’t had a chance to read the report, but can someone clear this up for me. Did Mitchell site in his report that Clemens was in the Grimsley report?
Diane Kruger? from the horrible nick cage movies?
Oh please, she couldn’t wear my very stylish boots.
Didn’t see this posted:
DEREK DEFENDS ROGER
YANKEES CAPTAIN WARNS OF ‘RUSH TO JUDGEMENT’
http://www.nypost.com/seven/12.....556691.htm
Blondie: Are you saying you’re more beautiful than Diane? You got pics to back that up?
Schilling should keep his yap shut. Do PEDs thin blood? Maybe that’s why he was bleeding so much?
Top Ten – Raiders of the Lost Ark, My Life, Braveheart, Scent of a Woman, Wall Street, Mr. Holland’s Opus, Jaws, Glory, Close Encounters of the Third Kind, and the original Fantasia.
GSW-
meow, you’re so tricky!
hey, I’m not that blonde
but please, I would say it’s like comparing apples to oranges, but it’s more like acorns to oranges. I saw part of that train wreck of a movie on cable, and when you consider her receding hairline and flattahtahs, it’s like taking candy from a baby.
Jennifer, I don’t see where Grimsley’s affidavit is sited in the report.
too many posts on this thread but i wanted to correct something about Sheff said earlier.
The person said Sheff had no connection to steroids unlike Jason. Well unless I’m mistaken, Sheff said in his BALCO testimony that he was given the cream (via Greg Anderson) but he was unaware it was a steroid.
okay thanks apoint! I printed the report intending to read it, now i’m not sure I want to.
Jennifer, it reads better with an adult beverage!
Okay I’ll take that into consideration if I get bored on my vacation next week!! No work for 11 days!! WOOHOO!!
Top twelve movies (just couldn’t keep it at ten and I cheated some more by including a couple of “series”) -
The Longest Day (original B&W)
A Walk In The Sun
Star Wars (series)
Indiana Jones (series)
It’s A Mad, Mad, Mad World
Abbott & Costello Meet Frankenstein
Wizard of Oz
Sixth Sense
The Day The Earth Stood Still
Hunt For Red October
Close Encounters Of The Third Kind
The Russians Are Coming, The Russians Are Coming
I’m back from the show.
two things: Roger Clemens is gonna OWN the LA Times.
and of all the juicers named or suspected, I think Sheff had the most normal, and seemingly unaltered career from their use. I think if he did do them, it wasn’t for long and it is possible that he used them incorrectly.
Jimmy H.
Abbot and Costello meet Frankenstein is one of my favorites, too.
“I am a HUGE fan of Buchholz.”
SJ44, you should be ashamed of yourself! Is ‘fan’ really the word you wanted to use?
SJ 44, Its a real pleasure to read your posts. If we had more bloggers like you I would NEVER read another sports page. Keep it up!
Hank looks pretty stupid now!