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Gammons: Santana trade not a great idea

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jan 03, 2008 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Peter Gammons did a chat for Boston.com and addressed several topics of interest involving the Yankees.

His take on the Johan Santana trade market:

“The more I’ve thought about the Santana deal, the more I’m convinced it’s not a great idea. Whether it’s the Ellsbury deal or the Lester deal, the Sox would still be giving up three young players and I don’t discount the importance that Lowrie will play in the next couple of years. Theo has rebuilt the RS farm system in a very short time and changed the culture. And I think that culture is really important. The baseball people with the Yankees feel the same about what Cashman has done and would prefer not to make a Santana deal. There are days when I really believe that the Red Sox and Yankees wake up and hoping somehow the Mets can find 4 or 5 good prospects in the organization and make the trade, but right now, that’s highly unlikely.”

I think he’s exactly right.

Gammons also reveals that Brian Cashman will be at Fenway Park on Saturday for the annual Hot Stove/Cool Music roundtable discussion. Gammons, Theo Epstein, Bill James, J.P. Ricciardi and others will be involved.

Very cool of Cashman to participate in the charity fundraiser. For ticket information, check out the Hot Stove Cool Music site.

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76 Responses to “Gammons: Santana trade not a great idea”

  1. Jim PA January 3rd, 2008 at 1:30 pm

    I think Gammons hit it on the head. Neither the Yanks nor the Sox really wants Santana all that much (at this price), but they don’t want the other guys to have him either.

  2. G. Love January 3rd, 2008 at 1:37 pm

    No small coincidence Gammons pumps up every prospect that the Red Sox have in their proposal to the Twins.

    He drops Lester as “young Pettite”. Coco as “best CF in baseball”. Lowrie as “ready to start at SS for the Sox if Lugo falters”.

    After reading that column you’d be stunned as to why the Twins haven’t taken that offer.

    His credibility is pretty shot with me and I was a huge fan of his. If he’s supposed to be a national baseball guy, it seems like the only nation he knows of is Red Sox nation.

    I do agree with him that the Yankees and Sox both wish Johan would just away to the Mets or the Twins resign him.

    What an indictment of the Mets that they can’t put together an enticing enough proposal to land a guy the other 2 two teams are willing to let you have.

    That Milledge trade was a joke and I think if they still had him, they would get Johan.

  3. mel January 3rd, 2008 at 1:39 pm

    Gammons will be [insert inappropriate verb] himself if the Red Sox get Santana. He’s such a revisionist journalist. Meaning he revises his opinions so that his team always does the right thing and makes the right moves.

    I don’t think that the Red Sox are willing to spend the money on the extension.

    Best case scenario for the Yankees? Minnesota keeps Santana in ’08.

  4. hmmm January 3rd, 2008 at 1:41 pm

    Theo and Cashman are good friends. Cashman is also pretty tight with Kenny Williams and Kevin Towers, i think.

  5. hmmm January 3rd, 2008 at 1:43 pm

    “Best case scenario for the Yankees? Minnesota keeps Santana in ‘08.”

    agreed.

  6. Yanksrule57 January 3rd, 2008 at 1:44 pm

    mel,

    Spot on assessment of Gammons. A great writer in the past, but I think he is mailing it in now most of the time.
    I suspect his health issues may have something to do with it. I’m told events like that have a way of putting things in a different perspective.

  7. jimmy1138 January 3rd, 2008 at 1:52 pm

    Have the Mets scored any big deal this offseason? After their historic collapse Minaya has to do something spectacular.

  8. Tony Womack. Trying to be a Yankee again. Pete will you help? January 3rd, 2008 at 1:53 pm

    Oh God. Who gives a swimming hoot about what Peter Gammons has to say? NoMass said it best. The man is openly senile.

  9. Boston Dave January 3rd, 2008 at 1:56 pm

    does Gammons really say Lugo’s season long offensive woes were a result of being sick for a few days in spring training?? This guy is a schill… err shill for the Sox.

  10. Tony Womack. Trying to be a Yankee again. Pete will you help? January 3rd, 2008 at 1:57 pm

    Oh and I’ve been working on my power swing. I may be able to hit a HR this year!

  11. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge January 3rd, 2008 at 1:57 pm

    jimmy1138

    They traded Mota for Estrada, than let Estrada walk by not offering arbitraion. Which I happen to think baseball should not allow. The Mets were able to get rid of a horrid player for nothing.

  12. S.o.S.27 January 3rd, 2008 at 2:12 pm

    How many would prefer to keep the trio plus Horne and trade Cano instead now that we got Arod back?

    I myself would maybe go that route, being that we could get a Hudson to take his place at second base and play a numbers game on our young studs. Odds are only one will end up being a possible ace on this staff. The problem is we dont know which one it will be. So lets keep em all which one will be the cream.

  13. S.o.S.27 January 3rd, 2008 at 2:14 pm

    Tony Womack. Trying to be a Yankee again. Pete will you help?
    January 3rd, 2008 at 1:57 pm
    Oh and I’ve been working on my power swing. I may be able to hit a HR this year!

    You sure your not Cairo.

  14. Jack Ransovy January 3rd, 2008 at 2:15 pm

    Best case Santana remains with twins . NO . Next year if he’s good he’ll be asking for 6 years. Too much. Best case he goes to the NL the mets or some other team. We don’t need him we shouldn’t want him for that price and years he wants.

  15. mark January 3rd, 2008 at 2:16 pm

    the event with cashman and theo looks like it is on sunday, not saturday.

  16. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Save the Three Musketeers! January 3rd, 2008 at 2:19 pm

    Gammons still isn’t Steve Phillips

  17. Joe Go (Cano fan) January 3rd, 2008 at 2:22 pm

    Why the comment to trade Cano. A-rod is not the whole team. We do need high hitters for ave. and Cano has been getting better and better. No trade is much better than trading a 2nd baseman who’s young and already a former all-star there’s a reason he’s untouchable.

  18. Dave January 3rd, 2008 at 2:25 pm

    A yr ago, I cant imagine any one saying that. We cant get santana because we cant change the culture that cash has enacted? Puh- leaaze, gimme a break. Every yankee fan in the world has prayed for an ace at some point or another in the last seven yrs of playoff losses. When one is finally available and can actually come to the yanks – no one wants him! I dont want to give up hughes or chamberlain either dont get me wrong. But the idea that the yanks are hoping the mets swoop in and sign santana to a seven yr deal is ridiculous and idiotic. We want santana and we may need santana – we just dont want to trade for him nor do we want any one else to trade for him. So we can sign him as a free agent during the off season or trade very little for him at the trade deadline. And the idea that the yanks dont want to spend the money on santana is another atrocious one – we can blow a quarter to a half a billion dollars on horrendous pitching contracts but we wont sign the best pitcher in baseball due to monetary concerns. WITH THE NEW STADIUM AND THE LARGE RAISE IN YANKEE TICKET PRICES ONCE AGAIN, i doubt money would be any reason not to sign an ace and someone who can by one extra addition put us into position to take it all. The prospects are and should be the only reason we dont sign santana this off season. All the rest of this argument is garbage as far as the yankees are concerned.

  19. Bryan January 3rd, 2008 at 2:32 pm

    Nick Swisher Traded To White Sox
    Baseball Digest Daily is reporting that the A’s have traded Nick Swisher to the White Sox for Gio Gonzalez, Faustino De Los Santos, and Ryan Sweeney. I’d heard about the Sweeney part but hadn’t been able to confirm it. This is a fascinating trade – let’s discuss.

    I have to imagine the White Sox plan to use Swisher as their center fielder for the next couple of years; he did play 59 games there in ’07. Kenny Williams stuck to his word about adding OBP to his team, picking up Swisher and Carlos Quentin to fill out his outfield. Swisher, 27, is signed at a very reasonable price: $3.5MM in ’08, $5.3MM in ’09, $6.75MM in ’10, $9MM in ’11, and a $10.25MM club option for ’12 with a $1MM buyout. The option gets a $1.75MM bump if Swisher is top five for the MVP voting during the contract. He has limited no-trade protection for 2011-12.

    The White Sox paid a massive price to get their man, however. Pitchers De Los Santos and Gonzalez were their two best prospects, according to Baseball Prospectus’ Kevin Goldstein. De Los Santos is said to have a huge ceiling, whereas Gio is a solid lefty who’s nearly big-league ready. Goldstein ranked Sweeney eighth on the team, but projects him as more of a fourth-outfielder type (he was once very highly regarded though).

    If it wasn’t obvious with the Dan Haren trade, the A’s are in full-fledged rebuilding mode. Joe Blanton, Huston Street, and Mark Ellis could be next to go.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....raded.html

  20. hmmm January 3rd, 2008 at 2:38 pm

    “Every yankee fan in the world has prayed for an ace at some point or another in the last seven yrs of playoff losses.”

    no, just the last 4.

    i was perfectly happy with Clemens, young Moose, Pettitte, El Duque, etc. from 2001-2003.

  21. Boston Dave January 3rd, 2008 at 2:46 pm

    the A’s continue to rob teams of their young talent. They are going to be a force in 3 years or so.

  22. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") & dammit SAVE HUGHES !!! January 3rd, 2008 at 2:50 pm

    Billy Beane robs another organization I mean WTF

  23. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Save the Three Musketeers! January 3rd, 2008 at 2:51 pm

    Agreed with Hmmm.

  24. S.o.S.27 January 3rd, 2008 at 2:53 pm

    What would it cost us to get Houston Street for the 8th inning? Could Melky be a chip being that they just traded an outfielder?

  25. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") & dammit SAVE HUGHES !!! January 3rd, 2008 at 2:55 pm

    S.O.S this is Billy Beane, think more the lines Kennedy, Tabata, Horne & Sanchez

  26. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge January 3rd, 2008 at 2:55 pm

    It would probably cost us, Melky, Hughes, Horme.

  27. J-Dawg January 3rd, 2008 at 2:57 pm

    Billy Beane is a very intelligent GM and a master at getting back some great talent whenever he makes a trade. One of the Big Three would definitely depart in a deal for Street, plus much more.

  28. Jim PA January 3rd, 2008 at 3:00 pm

    ESPN says McNamee will sue Clemens if Rocket calls him a liar on 60 Minutes. This should be interesting. I wouldn’t think either one wants to be in a position to be cross-examined under oath.

  29. S.o.S.27 January 3rd, 2008 at 3:03 pm

    brandan-S.O.S this is Billy Beane, think more the lines Kennedy, Tabata, Horne & Sanchez

    jennifer-It would probably cost us, Melky, Hughes, Horme.

    No thanks!! Lets stick with what we have and bring up Horne or some other stud mid season like Joba was last year.

    The only other pitcher i would look at is Nathan. But that transaction would take a year to make.

  30. TurnTwo January 3rd, 2008 at 3:04 pm

    SOS, ive actually mentioned that before, and been crucified for just the mere suggestion. for the price you pay for young pitching, I think i’ve come around to being more amenable to trading Cano over Hughes.

  31. TurnTwo January 3rd, 2008 at 3:05 pm

    I would imagine Street would cost along the lines of Horne, plus another 2 lower level minor leaguers. You dont have to trade one of the 3 for a bullpen arm, no matter how good an option he is.

  32. Clay Bellinger January 3rd, 2008 at 3:05 pm

    For some reason I don’t see the Yankees making any trades any time soon with the exception being the Santana deal. Don’t know why, just a gut feeling.

  33. Steve January 3rd, 2008 at 3:06 pm

    I feel sad for any Yankee fan that doesnt want Santana. I cant believe how many Yankees fans have drank the Casham CoolAid, when we havent even seen one season of these young pitchers performing well. We dont know how well Hughes, Kennedy, Joba, Horne or any of the other “aces” in the making we have will do yet all of you are excited that we arent getting Johan. I might be excited if we had the guarantee that the Twins wouldnt trade him at all and we could get him through FA without trading anything but there is no guarantee of that at all. And I want everyone to remember that there is a situation that could occur that you all would hate…what if the Yanks come out of the gate slowly and Kennedy sucks and Hughes is mediocre and we are far behind, then the Twins will have all the leverage because we will have the option of either giving up the season and hoping Johan comes to us through FA or we will have to give up more than we are willing to offer now to get Johan during the season. I say buy low now rather than taking the either or choice of tanking a season or giving up a lot more later.

  34. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Save the Three Musketeers! January 3rd, 2008 at 3:07 pm

    It’s an awkward time to pull off a trade. Right now, it’s more or less, see what we’ve got when they actually play and work from there.

  35. TurnTwo January 3rd, 2008 at 3:07 pm

    besides, right now, Beane is using his MLB pieces to rebuild his system… a package of lower level but higher ceiling guys might be more desireable than one single mlb-ready upper level prospect.

  36. Blargh January 3rd, 2008 at 3:10 pm

    It’s Beane, he’ll twist a 4th player out of there xP

  37. S.o.S.27 January 3rd, 2008 at 3:11 pm

    TurnTwo
    January 3rd, 2008 at 3:04 pm
    SOS, ive actually mentioned that before, and been crucified for just the mere suggestion. for the price you pay for young pitching, I think i’ve come around to being more amenable to trading Cano over Hughes.

    Im glad someones with me on this. With the was everyone thinks Hughes is a shure thing,it surprised me to see how people are totally against keeping the 4 and trading Cano. Last May everyone wanted to trade him for balls. Noone is saying he isnt good. Obviously he must be to get an ace in return.

    My thought is its easier to replace a second baseman(less productive lets say) than an ACE. If it went as planned, we would get Hudson and have 3 potential aces on this team(Santana,Joba,Hughes).

  38. S.o.S.27 January 3rd, 2008 at 3:14 pm

    One more thing. We led the league in runs last year and got bounced out of the first round. We can spare a few runs to get PITCHING. Ace at that.

  39. Blargh January 3rd, 2008 at 3:14 pm

    Cano for…whom? Santana? Why would the Twins want Cano? He’s gonna make a fair amount of bucks, and Pohlad is pretty cheap for a guy worth 3 billion

  40. S.o.S.27 January 3rd, 2008 at 3:19 pm

    Blargh
    January 3rd, 2008 at 3:14 pm
    Cano for…whom? Santana? Why would the Twins want Cano? He’s gonna make a fair amount of bucks, and Pohlad is pretty cheap for a guy worth 3 billion

    Hes cheaper than COCO PUFFS. They just lost a big part of thier offense(hunter). They need infield help.

  41. whozat January 3rd, 2008 at 3:19 pm

    “no, just the last 4.”

    I wasn’t. Ok…maybe in 05 I was. I was just hoping that the team would actually play to their ability instead of psyching themselves out and swinging at balls all day, like they did every time they faced sabathia, and in the entire 06 ALDS. And, you know, that the 19 game-winning Wang would show up instead of whoever that was in this past postseason.

  42. pat January 3rd, 2008 at 3:20 pm

    Many things I don’t agree with in the Gammons interview. 2 of which that are Yankee related are:

    First, if Gammons thinks that Mike Wallace doing the Clemens interview is less than a perfect situation, he should have the same issue with Mitchell heading up the investigation for MLB. Mike Wallace may never have brokered peace but he doesn’t strike me as not being a man of integrity. The appearance of impropriety is the same.

    Second, Gammons says that players will not forget that A-Rod actually said that the “game is easy for him”. I watched the 60 Minutes interview and don’t remember him saying that. I remember him saying something about how he never felt the need to use steroids because he never felt overmatched. To me, translating not overmatched to easy is a bit of a stretch for Gammons to make.

  43. whozat January 3rd, 2008 at 3:23 pm

    “They just lost a big part of thier offense(hunter). They need infield help.”

    Yeah. But they don’t want to pay what Cano will be getting.

    Also, replacing cano with some journeyman like Mark Loretta isn’t going to cost a few runs. It’ll cost a bunch. And, since there’s no one in AA or AAA to replace him, it’ll mean signing another 30ish 2B. Whoo!

    Also, they team will be giving up a few runs thanks to the inevitable decline of all their 33+ position players. Trade from your strength, if you’re going to trade. Young position players, especially middle IFers, are not a source of organizational strength for the Yankees. Young, high ceiling right handed pitchers are. That doesn’t mean start throwing them all away, but it does mean that, if you make a move, you want to center it around some of those guys.

  44. raymagnetic January 3rd, 2008 at 3:26 pm

    Whozat, I completely agree with your 3.23pm post.

  45. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge January 3rd, 2008 at 3:26 pm

    Gammons only hears and sees what he wants to. Funny that he has a problem with an interview in a casual situation (that has no bearing on anything), with a friend of the Yankees. But he sees no problem with a man heading an investigation on mlb, with a fincial stake in a team.

  46. ET90210 January 3rd, 2008 at 3:29 pm

    Are the A’s trying to be the AL version of the Marlins?? haha Geez.

    http://mlbfleecefactor.com/200.....white-sox/

  47. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Save the Three Musketeers! January 3rd, 2008 at 3:32 pm

    ET: That would be a resounding yes!

  48. Blargh January 3rd, 2008 at 3:32 pm

    Well, I assume that Beane usually has some master plan going to stay competitive in the division
    While Loria’s just really, really cheap and whoever’s the GM is forced to work with that

  49. S.o.S.27 January 3rd, 2008 at 3:34 pm

    whozat-Also, replacing cano with some journeyman like Mark Loretta isn’t going to cost a few runs. It’ll cost a bunch. And, since there’s no one in AA or AAA to replace him, it’ll mean signing another 30ish 2B. Whoo!

    Orlando Hudson has been rumored to be on the block. Hes still young,great defense and good hitter. I dont think we would be losing that much. I understand that our strentgh is young pitching. But if you think as most do that these 3 or maybe 4(horne) are going to be special. You keep them and trade with what your strength is in the bigs. Which is offense.

  50. Old Yanks Fan January 3rd, 2008 at 3:34 pm

    Re: Clemens – Clem had a great year in ’98 w/Toronto and the a terrible year in ’99 w/the Yankees, and improved somewhat in 2000. However (while it was the NL), Roger has insanely good years in 2004, 2006 and 2006, averaging and ERA+ of 185.

    How does the above line up with McNamee being on Rogers ‘team’? Was he there in ’99 was Roger was so poor.

    And even if he did PEDS in the 1998-2002 years, how do you explain 2004-2006, when testing was a lot more robust?

  51. Bart January 3rd, 2008 at 3:46 pm

    If the Yankee leadership fails to obtain Santana it will be recorded as penny-wise and pound foolish.

    Hughes is no sure thing — even his hammy injury can have repercussions that undermine his ability to pitch at a MLB level. Without a plus FB he is average. IPK is average. In the NL he might be a 2 or 3. In the AL, the Yankees and the fans are fooling themselves.

    This offense has two years at best — they need a combination of Santana, Pettit (if he stays healthy), Mussina (if he can go 10-10 and eat innings), Wang (but not on artificial turf or against patient teams), and continued magic from Joba and Mo to compete. Fill in with IPK and a cast of thousands.

    IF HUGHES and IPK and JOBA and ______ (fill in the blank) develop as HOPED they won’t have an offense or a defense in 2010 beyond Cano and ARod. Develop Hughes and you waste the offense that is capable this year and next – and IF he IS what is hoped you will have to buy an offense for him in 2010. So why balk now. IF the minor league is so hot with pitching prospects, in three years there will be the next “Hughes” or IPK — they may have to be traded as well.

    Gammons is a Red Sox shill – if he didn’t have Beckett, he would be singing a different song.

    The minor leagues supply talent for the majors – develop them, bring them to the show, or trade them for people your team needs. They are not your birth children.

    Even so – Santana is not the messiah — he has to be as good for 3 years as he has been for the last 5.

    A LHP of his pedigree in Yankee Stadium is worth the trade.

  52. Steve January 3rd, 2008 at 3:50 pm

    Bart

    I agree completely, I couldnt have said it any better myself. In a few years, people will be saying that we should keep our young hitting prospects and not try to trade for Pujols or others. I am sure if Yankee fans had their way they would believe that Hughes and Ajax would be better than Santana and Carl Crawford.

  53. raymagnetic January 3rd, 2008 at 3:51 pm

    IF HUGHES and IPK and JOBA and ______ (fill in the blank) develop as HOPED they won’t have an offense or a defense in 2010 beyond Cano and ARod.

    Really? So you absolutely know who will be on the Yankees in 2010 and beyond? Isn’t it possible they can sign free agent hitters? Isn’t it possible that in two years other minor league hitters will develop and be major league ready?

  54. Blargh January 3rd, 2008 at 3:56 pm

    So what do you want management to do? They already made their offers; you want them to RAISE the offers?
    Or just wave your hands and magically make Twins management start accepting one of them?

  55. i miss paulie too January 3rd, 2008 at 4:04 pm

    i think clemmens is baiting mcnamee into suing him. it is very hard to sue for slander. Clemens team probably feels that they have a better chance of winning in court if mcnamee sues him than the other way around. a successful defense of mcnamees case, plus passing the olympic testing this summer could be as close to clearing himself that he can come. then he may still make cooperstown.

  56. Clay Bellinger January 3rd, 2008 at 4:06 pm

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories.....1585.shtml

    HARD TO BELIEVE IS AN UNDERSTATEMENT.

    Baseball superstar Roger Clemens denies he cheated by using banned substances and says his accuser, former trainer Brian McNamee, only injected him with the painkiller lidocaine and the vitamin B-12.

  57. swo January 3rd, 2008 at 4:07 pm

    Guys, nobody is saying to keep ALL of our pitching prospects. We want to keep the ones that are potentially on the trading block: Hughes, Kennedy, Horne, and even Joba. If 2 of those guys reach their ceiling, then the Yankees will have a surplus of pitching prospects because guys like Betances, Kontos, Garcia, and Marquez won’t have anywhere to play. THOSE are the guys you trade for hitters.

    Besides, even if we don’t trade any pitchers and the hitters never develop, there is a little thing called free agency that can be used to fill a spot on the roster. Apparently some of you have never heard of this novel idea before.

  58. whozat January 3rd, 2008 at 4:11 pm

    “But if you think as most do that these 3 or maybe 4(horne) are going to be special. You keep them and trade with what your strength is in the bigs. Which is offense.”

    Anyone who thinks three or maybe four will be special is fooling themselves. I think two have a chance to be special, and a good one. I think one has a great chance at being solid for a long time. I think one could be very good or might be a setup man.

    But that’s irrelevant.

    2Bs who produce like Robbie are few and far between. And he is years from his prime. Given that this vaunted offense is aging, and that the Yankees have no promising positional prospects that have sniffed AA as of yet, he is _the_ piece to build around for the next ten years. Hudson will be 30 next year, and, while amazing with the leather, is average with the bat.

    You don’t trade away ALL the young pitching for veterans who will cost a gajillion dollars and whose contracts will be albatrosses at the back end. But, when you decide a trade needs to be done, THAT is what you trade from.

  59. NYPD113th January 3rd, 2008 at 4:17 pm

    Hey G Love!

    Either one of two thing occured with your post. Either A) your prescription needs to be upped on your reading glasses or B) you were in such a rush to rip Gammons, yiou decide to not actually read the chat.

    G LOVE, you said:

    No small coincidence Gammons pumps up every prospect that the Red Sox have in their proposal to the Twins.

    He drops Lester as “young Pettite”. Coco as “best CF in baseball”. Lowrie as “ready to start at SS for the Sox if Lugo falters”.

    OK, now, Gammons said:

    “One of the most interesting thing about the winter meetings was that JOHN FARRELL was passionate about his case for Jon Lester becoming their equivalent of a young Pettitte.

    AND………

    “I could see Billy Beane trading for Crisp and then turning around and trading him before season starts. THE A’S think he’s the best defensive center fielder in game right now.”

    NOW THE DOOZY!

    G LOVE, you claim that Gammons said that is “ready to start at SS for the Sox if Lugo falters”.

    Can you please point out in his chat where he said this, because I cannot find it. I do see where Gammons said:

    “If Jed Lowrie is still with them, he should allow them to give Lugo more rest and be a good alternative at SS.”

    Sounds like he’s saying the kid could be a nice backup for the immediate future. Real over-the-top stuff G Love!

    So two of the things you claim that Gammons said, other people said, and one thing you decided to make up. Wonderful post G Love.

    ;)

  60. Jake (don't trade HuJoK) January 3rd, 2008 at 4:20 pm

    If the Yankees just look around and KEEP Hughes Joba and Kennedy the twins will have nowhere to trade Santana to. The RedSox offer is not enough so what they’ll do is keep Santana try to win this year and get draft picks for him next year. It doesn’t look so bad for them if they do that and then any team can offer money to Santana with Yankees RedSox Mets and Dodgers (possibly Angels) making him the best offers next year. AND we also get to see if his pitching this year is getting better or worse.

  61. S.o.S.27 January 3rd, 2008 at 4:29 pm

    Jake (don’t trade HuJoK)
    January 3rd, 2008 at 4:20 pm
    If the Yankees just look around and KEEP Hughes Joba and Kennedy the twins will have nowhere to trade Santana to. The RedSox offer is not enough so what they’ll do is keep Santana try to win this year and get draft picks for him next year. It doesn’t look so bad for them if they do that and then any team can offer money to Santana with Yankees RedSox Mets and Dodgers (possibly Angels) making him the best offers next year. AND we also get to see if his pitching this year is getting better or worse.

    Santana staying with the Twins would be the best solution to this soap oppera as a Yankee fan. Lets hope your right(twins or yanks not sox). My gut tells me Hank is going to pull the trigger. He went from “were out of this”,to “we still have interest”. Sounds alot like the Arod fiasco.

  62. Jack Ransovy January 3rd, 2008 at 4:31 pm

    I totally agree that Cano should not be traded at all. Fans all around already are asking if he’s the next Jeter. His numbers are even better than Jeters were at that point in his career. If the yankees go with what they got don’t trade Cano instead sign him to a long deal Hopefully we can win some WSs in the next ten years. Santana has never played most of the year against teams with great off. like the yankees and redsox do. Who says he’ll be as good or even close to the numbers he’s had until now.

  63. Drive 4-5 January 3rd, 2008 at 4:33 pm

    For 30 years I looked forward to Sunday mornings so that I buy the Boston Globe and read Peter Gammons’ baseball notes column. It was by far the most interesting baseball writing in the country. Even as a shill for the Red Sox, he deserves his place in the HOF.

    But I do wish I had $10 for every prospect or player acquisition the Gammons has been wrong about over the years.

    He waxed poetic about Andy Marte when he was in the Braves organization. Then he became apoplectic over Coco Crisp ( obviously the best .320 OBP player in the history of baseball, despite the boos of the Fenway “Faithful”).

    What do Craig Hansen,Adam Stern,Phil Seibel,Matt White,Josh Hancock,Sun Woo Kim,Bill Pulsipher,Wilton Veras, Brian Rose,John Wasdin,Ken Ryan,Vaughan Eshelman,Carlos Quintana,Sam Horn,John Leister, Win Remmerswaal,Chuck Rainey and Jim Burton have in common with Ellsbury & Lowrie?

    All of them and a hundred more were labelled future impact players or can’t miss prospects by Peter Gammons.

  64. rconn23 January 3rd, 2008 at 4:40 pm

    Offense is much easier to replace than pitching.

    Hughes, IPK and Joba are no sure things. That can be said about any prospect. Potential injuries are always a caveat.

    But they’ve all at least had a taste of the majors, are cost-controlled for several years and at least two of the three have ace potential. The other is can be a solid fixture on a rotation.

    Santana will require a 7-year $140 million deal. While the Yankees can take it on, it’s not advisable, even with the expiring contracts at the end of next season.

    If the Red Sox are willing to take on that contract while picking up Manny’s $20 million options for 09 and 2010 along with pay hikes to Youklis and other players, so be it.

    Me, I think, giving a 7-year deal to any pitcher – no matter who it is – that will be 29 this spring is crazy.

    There is every reason to believe that Santana’s best years are behind him.

    As for the offense only lasting a couple of more years, I question that. With the expiring contracts, the Yanks have plenty of more money to patch up holes when and where they need them.

  65. Clare January 3rd, 2008 at 4:44 pm

    Gammons cheap shot at ARod was unforgivable. First, he claims ARod’s 60 minutes interview proved he wasn’t a Hollywood star. Well, duh. ARod never claimed to be one. Plus, he’s always talking about how he says goofy things.

    But Gammons’ saying ARod said the game is easy is just unforgivable. Because he never said or implied any such thing. What he said was that he never felt overmatched, if he got his work in. But for Gammons to claim that players “won’t forget” what ARod didn’t say, but what Gammons said players should hold him accountable for, is absolutely unprofessional crap.

  66. Drive 4-5 January 3rd, 2008 at 4:56 pm

    I just paid my 30% increase for Tier Reserved season tickets. The Yankees jack the price up regardless of having a $200mil payroll or if they cut it $80mil next year.

    I say make the trade. As long as I’m paying, I’d just as soon watch the best lefthander in baseball pitch.

  67. Eddie Layton January 3rd, 2008 at 5:16 pm

    Hank set a public deadline at the Winter Meetings. The Twins front office laughed at it. And the Twins were right to do so: Hank’s new comments make clear to everyone that the “deadline” was pure bluff.

    This is a very bad development for the Yanks. Thanks to Hank’s careless statements, the Yanks will no longer be able to play the “deadline” card again, which could have been a potentially useful negotiating tool in the hands of a competent negotiator. Hank is awful.

  68. rbizzler January 3rd, 2008 at 6:08 pm

    Eddie, please don’t disgrace the name of the late, great long-time organ player Mr. Layton with your defeatist crap.

    If you think that the Santana situation somehow inhibits the Yankees ability to do business you are sadly mistaken. Granted, Hank does like to hear himself talk, but, as has been stated ad nauseum here, the ‘deadline’ that you are so scared of still contained the caveat that the Twins would call the Yanks before making a final deal.

    Chicken Little much?

  69. Kelli in Conn. January 3rd, 2008 at 6:41 pm

    Gammons = the prototypical Boston ‘homer” and known as such throughout the game. If there’s something to be painted pretty about Boston, he’ll be the one to do it, Red Sox or otherwise.

  70. Grant January 3rd, 2008 at 9:00 pm

    I think he’s more right about the Sox then the Yanks, if the Yanks make the deal that is been reported, they still have a apretty deep farm system pitching wise.

  71. GMAN January 3rd, 2008 at 9:16 pm

    Peter Gammons is an amiable gentleman and a tool for the Red Sox front office…

    At the Winter Meetings he was breaking news about how the Bosox had won the Santana sweepstakes because of their clearly superior offer to the Twins. The supposedly agreed upon deal (justing working out a few minor details) between the Sox & Twins could only have been made easier to consummate when the Yankees said go ahead…we’re out.

    Old Man Gammons was just using his ESPN public address system to try and get the Yanks to overpay for Santana.

    Now after stating the Santana to Boston deal was in the bag…he says maybe the Redsox are better without actually trading for Johann.

    Excuse me Pete Gammons (Mr. Insider) but you either blew it; was used by the Red Sox or deliberately misled the public.

    The truth is Hanko & Cash called the Gammons/ESPN/Epstein/Smith bluff and now Peter is looking to reclaim some shred of credibility with this cockamamie new “commentary” on the Red Sox failure to deliver!

    With a full no-trade clause, Santana controls the process…It’s clear now…the Twins have no leverage…if Johann wanted to go to Boston…he would be on the Roster today.

    The Twins blew it…Epstein played it just as poorly and Gammons has egg on his face.

    I’m sure Cashman is going to Fenway to have a good laugh at Gammons and Epstein for their bumbling.

  72. GMAN January 3rd, 2008 at 9:29 pm

    Pete Gammon is an amiable gentleman.

    He is also a tool for the RedSox front office.

    Pete reported from the Winter Meetings that by virtue of their clearly superior offer..The Red Sox had won the Johann Santana Sweepstakes and would soon consumate a deal…only minor details to work out.

    Was Mr. Insider Peter Gammons duped…did he just blow it…or was he shilling for Epstein to get the Yanks to up their offer and overpay for a 1 yr rental of Santana’s services.

    Shame on Peter…Incompetent…Ill-informed or abusing his position (willfull conflict of interest much!)

    Let’s be clear…Hanko & Cash called the Gammons/ESPN/Epstein/Smith Bluff!!!

    Redfaced with Bosox Botox…Gammons strains credulity with his new perspective (after reporting failure).

    Cash is going to Fenway in this Hot Stove appearance to have a good laugh at Epstein and Gammons for their blown gambit.

  73. RollingWave January 4th, 2008 at 12:49 am

    Hmmmm

    Cano through age 24 season: 509 hits .314 average 48HR

    Carew through age 24 season: 498 hits .307 21HR

    Jeter through age 24 season: .308 588 hits 39HR

    you do realize that Carew go to 3000 hits and Jeter has a awsome shot right? Jeter played almost half a season more than Cano up to this point. Cano actually wins in his hit rate by a good margin. (of course. his lack of patience actually plays to his favor here.)

  74. RollingWave January 4th, 2008 at 12:54 am

    I’m going to put it quiet bluntly, if Cano have a healthy and fairly durable career and progress around the normal player curve. he has a serious shot at the HOF. espically given that there aren’t too many 2Bs in it and there are almost no legit under 30 potential candidate outside or Utley.

    Just think about this the next time you throw up “let trade Cano and we can get similar production from XXX” no you can’t. Cano is in fact better than Soriano (in the sense that he could stay at second) , and just look at the 2B production we had in the next two season without Soriano. we got REALLY lucky in 04 with Cairo. then we got Womack.

    your XXX is MUCH more likely to be Womack than Cairo.

  75. Jon January 4th, 2008 at 1:38 am

    I used to be in favor of the Santana deal until I realized (thanks to Keith Law) that the Yanks would really be trading Hughes for ONE year of Santana. If no one is going to trade for him, why no hang on to Hughes and outbid everyone in free agency. Not only do we keep Hughes, but we get to see how Santana holds up after a down year. Maybe Sabbathia will be the better investment at the end of the year. I think it’s a fair gamble to hope that Santana remains with the Twins. That said, I do think that if Boston works out a deal for Johan, the Yanks should do everything they can to prevent it from going through.

    Cano must stay. 2B is the weakest offensive position in baseball after catcher. Besides Utley, the 2B “stars” are slap hitters like Polanco and Pedroia. Cano is a rare 2B who, like Utley, can hit for power. He has a dynamite arm and should only get better defensively. I wouldn’t get rid of Cano for anything short of Verlander, Beckett, Peavy or Pujols.

  76. Brinton January 4th, 2008 at 12:45 pm

    Cano for Verlander would be stupid, Verlander is good but doesn’t stand out at his position like Cano does. Plus, what about santana on that list?

    If the Sox really think that Santana isn’t worth the guys they’re talking about giving up they’re idiots. You’re talking about a TOPS #2 guy who has showed that he isn’t adapting to the majors and has a terrible BB rate and WHIP. He’s a league average starter. Esslbury is not an impact player who’s being hyped like crazy for no good reason. He can hit for average and steal bases but that’s about it. Think Brett Gardner with twice the homers, but if you even thought about putting Gardner in a santana deal you’d get laughed outta the room. The fact that people are buying into those 2 being top tier prospects is just a testament to how stupid and repetitive boston fans/media are. If you tell a lie often enough people start to believe you.

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