Pinch hitting: High and Tight
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- January
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January is usually a slow month for baseball news. But fear not, we’ve lined up a series of guest bloggers to entertain you. Next up is Mike from High and Tight.
Mike grew up in Bergen County, went to college in Tennessee and now lives in San Diego. He has been blogging for six years and plays semi-pro poker. He says Mariano Rivera is his favorite Yankee but admits to a man-crush on Joba Chamberlain.
Here’s his post and it’s a topical one given Brian Cashman’s comments on Saturday:
Almost 35 years ago to the day, George M. Steinbrenner III purchased the New York Yankees from CBS for $10 million dollars. The power stricture of the club remained mostly the same during this time (with the notable exceptions of Steinbrenner’s two suspensions in 1975 and 1990-1993): George ran the ship, and while the faces filling other front office roles rotated in and out like busy shoppers through a revolving door, that one fact remained the same. It was George’s club, and the Boss ran it however he saw fit. Everyone else was mostly superfluous.
Brian Cashman took over as general manager in 1998, and at first his tenure was no different than that of his predecessors. Cashman would orchestrate trades and signings, but the real power in the organization was still headquartered in Tampa, with George and his “baseball people.” Trades and signings would be often overruled from Tampa, and reactionary “get me this guy, now” edicts would be handed down. Who could forget George demanding Raul Mondesi in response to Enrique Wilson misplaying a fly ball in right field?
In 2005, Cashman negotiated a new contract giving him more discretion and control of the club, and solidifying a chain of command within the organization that led directly to him. He began to focus more on developing players, signing international free agents that weren’t eligible for the draft and cost the team no draft picks, and drafting talent that may have fallen “below slot” for fears of signability or lingering injuries. Cashman focused on using the club’s monetary muscle in ways other than big name free agents who have passed their prime. This was probably the first sign that George was less interested in the daily grind of running the club – he was willing to cede some of his power to Cashman, while retaining final say on any decisions.
In recent years, Steinbrenner made fewer and fewer trips to New York and has remained mostly in Tampa. Once a man who would call reporters in order to give quotes, he had become much more reclusive, instead choosing to release written statements to the press. Eventually, he would turn over control of the organization to his sons, Hal and Hank.
So where does the real power lie over personnel decisions in the Yankee organization today? Hank certainly seems to be his father’s son: talkative, interested in speaking with the media, making statements that could border on tampering. Hal tends to stay in the background, while Cashman seems content to let Hank make the public statements. The public perception is that Hank is the one calling the shots. How accurate is that in reality?
John Harper of the Daily News quoted an agent who said of the Boras/Rodriguez negotiations “Hank and Hal didn’t play up to him. Hal, especially, was tough with him. Boras didn’t like dealing with Hal.”
Hal then would seem to be more involved than is visible on the surface. Personally, this is how I see the power structure: Cashman has gone on with business as usual, allowing Hank to be the mouthpiece for the organization. His goals and duties haven’t changed with the transfer of power to the Brothers Steinbrenner. Most of Hank’s statements have followed along Cashman’s talking points, although sometimes he tends to run a bit at the mouth (he is, after all, a Steinbrenner).
Hank mostly seems to buy, however, what Brian is selling but takes the spotlight when it comes to public statements and appearances. Hal holds the pocketbook, and reports have been made regarding Hal’s reluctance to acquiring Johan Santana due solely to the amount of money it would take to secure a new contract for the lefty.
It’s no secret that George’s health has been in decline in recent years, yet some reporters still hounded him for quotes and statements. That’s been what Hank has changed with his public persona – he’s given his dad the gift of peace and quiet, no longer having to sneak in and out of the Stadium to avoid reporters. Now he can simply defer questions to his son. That is what I believe Hank’s presence has given his father – it’s given him his dignity back.
This entry was posted
on Sunday, January 6th, 2008 at 1:28 am by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
Bergen County represent!
I love the way you closed your post…never thought about it like that, but you certainly have a point!
Thanks to Mike (Mr. Faded Glory) for being a guest blogger and a faithful reader. I’ve been pleased with the guest blogs. They’ve been sparking good conversations, which was the intent.
More to come as we have somebody lined up for every day this month.
Nice job working with recent issues. This entire dynamic between Hank, Hal, and Cashman is especially interesting stuff.
And someone said Bergen County represent? I’m from Dumont, so I’ve got to show my support as well.
iYankees: Wyckoff here
Interesting observation about Hank giving George dignity in his twilight years.
Hank may be an o.k. guy, but he really looks like a buffoon sometimes (okay, everytime he open his mouth). I’m even ok with him being the spokesperson, but he acts as if he’s sole owner of the Yankees. How long before the other key owners in the consortium get fed up with his megamaniacal proclamations that he’s the owner and he makes all of the decisions.
Changes are good, but I hope that he doesn’t chase off all the good baseball people. It took years for his father to rebuild the Yankee brand.
BTW, isn’t there another Steinbrenner son? Harold? Hal? Something like that. I heard he’s a pretty smart guy.
All right, anybody who went to college in my home state is A-Okay in my book!! That was a good comparison that you made about Hank taking George’s place and speaking for his father. Hank knows that the media was always very interested in hearing quotes from his father, so it’s almost like Hank is saying, “you want a quote from a Steinbrenner? Well, here I am!”
Hank has let everyone know that he will never shy away from telling what is going on, just like George. Quotes from the Steinbrenners are newsworthy, and Hank will definitely continue to make news.
New Milford here
Bergen County!
River Edge WASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSUP
New Milford? Wow, that’s close. Wyckoff? Nice. We’ve got some good BC representation right now.
Ha, River Edge too. Wow, I think I’ve hit off a diner over there a bunch of times.
I’m wondering right now, specifically about this situation, who has more power? I mean, I know that Cashman is sort of on the Yankee hinterlands when compared to the power employed by Hank and Hal, but which brother has more control over the decisions?
As Mike stated, Hal does hold the “pocketbook” which could mean everything. This would ultimately effect all decisions made by the club.
Very interesting. Thanks.
I wish Hank would shut his trap. He’s just embarassing himself along with Hal and CashMoney.
Love the representation. Am off to sleep, tomorrow all!
Based on Cashman’s comments today in Boston, I think he’s been marginalized by Hal, Hank and Randy Levine for that matter.
If the Santana trade goes through, which will be against Cashman’s wishes, I think it could be the end of his tenure as GM after the season.
If providing a measure of peace for his father has been one of Hank’s methods, then it has definitely worked. During the summer and into the fall, much was said about George’s health, but since the end of the season with Hank’s determination to step into the spotlight, not as much has been said about George’s health lately. Hank is very quick to speak and does seem to like to make himself heard, but maybe he is also quick to speak because he is fighting a battle for his father, a battle for his father’s privacy. Just maybe there is a method to Hank’s “madness,” as some have put it.
Hank is a paper tiger
Hal is the MBA that controls the cash
Hank wants Santana
Cashman doesnt want Santana
Hal wont pay Santana
Yankees dont trade for Santana
End of Story!
Cashman can live with giving up hughes and melky. If he couldn’t then he wouldn’t have offered up Hughes. Melky is not a sticking point. He is replaceable. I believe the real sticking point is the end of the trade proposal with the other prospects being given up by the yankees. Even cashman understands you have to give something up to get something. While it would pain him to give up the poster boy to his farm system rebuild, he will probably do it if it brings in Santana.
However, with Hank and Hal, i don’t even see Levine anywhere in the picture, Cashman looks to be the deciding vote with them. Hank and Hal I believe hold the same amount of power. I believe they have to agree on the decisions that are made, especially when it comes down to monetary situations like would obviously be the case with Santana.
If Hal controls the money, then he is the most powerful of the two brothers. Follow the money!
And the point about Boras “not enjoying working with Hal” may explain the surprise — including to A-Rod — that A-Rod had opted out. Boras’ ego may have gotten in the way to the point where he no longer was concerned with what A-Rod wanted, but was concerned with trying to show Hal (and Hank) that he was in control of the A-Rod negotiations, not the Yankees. In the end, it was A-Rod who had the most control.
Nice job with that last paragraph at the end. The rest Pete would have done better anyway as an insider.
You need someone like our site to post to break up these straight yankee discussions that anyone can do for some funny shorts to lighten the mood up around here.
I think Cashman’s quotes boiled down to a few things, most obviously than Hank and Hal run the show. They listen to Cash and I’m sure he has input on all decisions. But if Cashman was running the ship like he was back in ‘05-’06, we wouldn’t even be talking about Santana right now.
Hank is clearly pushing for Santana, basically telling the press about every move and thought within the organization. It also makes me a little worried when he uses the phrase “I” when talking about the team. Not only is it obnoxious, but it undermines everyone else in the front office, most notably Cashman.
I think without the emergence of Hank that Rivera and Posada get slightly less offers (Rivera 3 yrs/39m, Posada 4/40). But Hank bid against himself. Those guys would have signed for less, no way Rivera goes anywhere, especially at 13M/year. You give Jorge the 4th year and that takes away the threat that he signs in Queens. And A Rod is wearing a different uni in ‘08, either that or he signs for around 8 years/200M. They had leverage in that negotation and basically let Arod write his own paycheck.
Maybe I’m wrong, who knows? But what I believe is that Cashman has done a great job the last 3 years. I’m more excited about all these players coming up through the system, its really a great thing to watch. And I don’t want Hughes to haunt us for the next 15 years winning 18 games a year for the Twins.
The most troubling thing about that interview, however, and I’m sure this has been mentioned already: it seems like Cashman was refering to his job more as overseeing a transition than anything else. Cashman NEVER speaks out in the press. He talked about his duties changing, internal debate over moves, the emergence of the Stein bros. But the most troubling thing to me is that he sounds like a guy with one foot out the door.
He’s loyal and will continue to do his best for the team until he leaves. But he’s gone. And that is not a good thing if you’re a Yankee fan.
Just a guess….I think Cash Money leaves at the end of 2008,maybe Seattle???
iYankee – I lived in Dumont for two years, half a step from the monument – I’m sure you know what I mean. I also lived in New Milford for 3 months. I’m still Ridgewood born and bred though.
Very well written blog.
People, especially Yankee fans, freak out way too much anytime change is in the air.
Why be so damn fearful? Not all change is bad.
We saw the same panic in some when they changed managers.
Disagreements within an organization? EVERY organization has disagreements from time to time re: player acquisitions.
Show me one that doesn’t, and I’ll show you an organization that doesn’t contend.
They didn’t spend 400 million bucks this off-season on 4 over-30 players to “rebuild”. The only question is, how much more do they want to spend? That’s the issue.
The depth re: pitching prospects is now present in the organization. Its a money question and those questions are out of EVERY GM’s hands in baseball. Those are owner issues, regardless of whatever power Cashman has in his deal.
I like Cash and overall, has he done a good job. However, his calls on pitchers over the years have left a LOT to be desired.
If he gets overruled here, and they do the Santana deal, I wouldn’t go willy nilly as if its some breach of national security. It may be the best move for the team. If it is, he will be on board with it.
Can’t get overly attached to prospects when you root for a big market team. They are commodities and nothing more.
If you want an “All-Prospect Team”, something that Yankees haven’t been in close to 50 years, then its time to root for Tampa. You won’t see ANY big market team be an all-prospect team. The Red Sox certainly aren’t.
That makes two excellent guest posts in a row.
Solid writing and interesting conclusion!
I don’t think Cashman really likes taking to the press, and is ‘happy’ to have big Hank flap his gums. Cash is not looking for attention, just the power to continue building this team properly.
Is Hank as dumb, with his borderline tampering, as he sounds? Or is this a good cop/bad cop situation where Hank puts out disinformation? If so, it could be a good thing. Maybe Hank can drive the price up on players we DON’T want, and keep the othe GMs guessing. We will have to hope that Cashman and Hal (when they agree) can override Hank.
Santana is a great P and I’d love to have him. Would I trade ARod, Jeter and Joba for him? No. Just because it’s Santana, it doesn’t make any specific deal a good one. If you really examine what the current proposal is, and consider how many WINS it buys us, and and what cost, this deal is obviously NOT a good one.
SJ44
Disagreements are fine and to be expected, but Hank’s daily press briefings about the inner workings of the NYY FO can only hurt the team’s bargaining position. He shouldn’t be airing the team’s in house decision making process – period. This is a futile plea since Hank is just not capable of not shooting off his mouth.
As for the $400 mil they’ve spent – if Cash had been left to do his job they would not have been held up for the absurd amount of money and years they ultimately gave Po, Mo and ARod. They all could have been signed to less onerous deals than they got. Posada and Rivera were going nowhere yet the Yankees negotiated like they were the hottest items on the FA market. Their contracts will kill this team down the line. ARod could have been had for 8 years (which was Cash’s original plan – the 5 year offer on top of the old K’s 3 years) but they inexplicable gave him 10 when they had ARod over a barrell. Sorry, that’s just bad negotiating.
Dismissing concerns about the rise of Hank and the demise of Cash is whistling past the graveyard.
I’ve enjoyed the different perspectives of each of the three guest bloggers. Nicely done, Mike – I liked the conclusion as well.
Remember, folks:
These are not insiders.
The insiders have nothing to report.
I’m glad for the change of pace.
Pete, great idea!
Jersey? Not from there, but I DID live
at Exit 105 off the Garden State once
What in the name of all we hold sacred east of Denver is a “man-crush”? Is this a California thing or what? No, wait; don’t tell me; I really don’t want to know.
Southron
P.S. How does one tell the difference between just playing poker with cash money on the table and playing “semi-pro” poker? This I would like to know.
Great discussion. As far as Hank goes, I actually enjoy his candor. He reminds me of Jim Carrey in Liar, Liar… couldn’t tell a lie to save his soul. I do, sometimes, cringe when it seems that he’s tipping Cash’s hand. That’s not a good thing, for sure.
Great points by Faded Glory and SJ44. Not too long ago, the knock on Yankee management was that there was no constructive disagreement within the organization. It was all the “Tampa faction.” Now that there’s some back and forth, it’s panic time.
Frankly, if there ever should be major internal disagreements, it should be in a situation like this: keep the highly touted, cheap prospects or go after the premier pitcher of the day? It’s not an easy call and it shouldn’t be a surprise that there’s a lot of debate over the decision.
gargoyle
My sentiments exactly.
They held all the cards in dealing with Arod and gave the store away when there were no other serious suitors in sight for his services.
Just because you have a printing press for money (the Yankee brand) doesn’t mean you have to prove it all the time.
Maybe Hank was just running his mouth to stoke the Red Sox into upping their offer. One can only hope as on the face of it I wouldn’t want him to be playing poker with my money.
“That is what I believe Hank’s presence has given his father – it’s given him his dignity back.”
Tremendous insight. Fathers and sons and baseball.
The boys may have had it tough with their dad, who had it tough with his dad. But now, at the end of his health if not his life, George needs them. Most sons of tough fathers are either going to rally to their dad one last time or run away in a situation like this. I applaud the boys for supporting dad in his time of need and trying to get him the thing he craves desperately, another championship.
But if the boys don’t get Big Stein his championship this year or next, maybe George will realize that just having his sons with him, working on his favorite project for a few quiet, glowing moments, is better than another ring.
As for Randy Levine, I stopped worrying after SJ convinced me a while back that Randy’s gone once the stadium is finished. Unless of course he succeeds Cashman as GM (j/k).
How does Hank talking hurt the Yankees bargaining position?
They have already put their final offer on the table for Santana. There is no longer any “bargaining”.
Its now either do the deal or don’t do the deal. His bargaining position hasn’t changed since December.
Personally, I like his candor. For too long (for obvious reasons), the Yankees have acted as if it was the Kremlin to get ownership comments. Now, its more open and free flow.
I just think folks are waiting for the guy to screw up so they can pounce on him.
All the supposed baseball “experts” predicted the demise of the Yankees this off-season because Hank wasn’t going to be able to get everybody signed and DEFINITELY wasn’t going to be able to deal with Scott Boras.
What happened? He not only got everybody signed, he neutered Scott Boras. Perhaps forever (or at least a significant period of time) in baseball circles.
NO OWNER has been able to do that to Boras. Hank did it with his best client. That’s pretty damn impressive.
Does he talk too much? I don’t know, what’s “too much”?
As a heavily invested fan, both financially and emotionally, I like hearing from the Boss rather than anonymous sources. Its pretty obvious the guy wants to win (which, if you recall was a worry for many Yankee fans when the ownership change was announced) and that’s the most important thing to me when evaluating an owner.
The guy is spending 800+ million dollars of the teams (ie: his family’s) money into building a new ballpark and STILL isn’t shying away (or using it as an excuse) from paying players.
As a fan, I gotta say, that’s pretty strong.
Thanks for bringing something interesting to the table, Mike.
gargoyle – If Hank is truly stupid I agree with you. But you can’t assume he’s giving away strategy. What he says might be total BS, just to get newsprint. We will have to wait and see.
In his last 2 years, Mickey Mantle did not produce much and was often injured. But he was a God, and the reason people came to games. In 8 or 9 years, ARod might pass Bonds. If so, by then, he may be the most iconic player in the game. I think the ‘extra 2 years’ on his contract were (1) to make sure he gets the record (2) to let him be a ‘hero for the fans’ for his last year or 2. Remember, we may be talking about a historic, once in a century ballplayer.
Also, ARod’s salary in his last 3 years is $20m/per. Considering that Tori got $18 this year, $20m in 2013 may not be that much. Yes, I agree he appears to be overpaid, but ARod is a very special case and will generate all kinds of money and publicity, and will end up being worth it in the long run (IF he doesn’t get injured).
Posada at $13m isn’t bad, but the 4th year will be a loss. Mo’s contract is insane and the only one really was beyond what he is worth.
However, we should remember that the VERY MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT of Yankee money is to maintain historic Yankee players and greats. Yeah… Bernie was overpaid for 2 years. But are you glad he never put on a uniform other than a Yankee’s uniform?
Was Berra overpaid his last year? Mickey? Whitey? Does it matter now?
ARod and Mo are first ballot HOF’ers and Po could be there with 2 or 3 more above average years. He is already the 3rd best C in Yankee history, and some of his numbers are on a par with Berra and Dickey.
Babe Ruth hasn’t played in 70 years, yet his name is still better known then most current ballplayers (or politicians for that matter).
In 2077, will kids be wearing ARod tee-shirts? Will Mo still be considered the most dominant RP in baseball history? Will Posada be to the next generation what Berra is to this one?
Mind you, I agree that all 3 look overpaid. But ARod is not, Posada may still be productive for 3 years, and Mo…. well, Mo got us. But… ya know… he’s Mo.
Sometimes, you just pay a lot for the brand name.
How many teams bring up kids who become great and never wear another uniform?
Good thing the Yankees have plenty of money.
It’s hard to put a dollar value on Yankee history and tradition. Fortunately Hank (and George) are well aware of this.
In the Old Timers game of 2031, when Mo throws a 67mph cutter to Posada, and ARod hits it into the black seats…
no one is going to care about the money.
Old Yanks Fan- Great comments. Puts it in perspective.
First of all, Cashman treats all of his player walk year negotiations exactly this way, along the lines of “we’ll get to that later.” “I’m not looking past right now.” type stuff. Why should he treat his walk year any differently? That’s his particular tape loop, for better or worse. It’s either good tactics, he must think, or it has worked for him.
It has obviously NOT worked well in the cases of Posada and River, as well as a few others, who could have been gotten cheaper if Cashman had been willing to address the future instead of sit on it, but that’s water under the bridge. That’s just the way he deals. Whether it’s total posturing or not, that’s Cash.
As for whether “he’s gone” or not, as somebody has already stated, let’s see what happens. I doubt it. That job of his is a very unique place and I don’t think he’ll part with it just because we suddenly have owners with strong opinions again about what they want to do with the team. He stressed having worked for the Steinbrenners for 20 years; that comment was more honey than vinegar, let me tell you. He cannot go to another city and get this kind of payroll and this kind of organization behind him. And do you think that every other team owner is content to just do nothing and let the baseball people handle it? Yes, some are, but many are just like the Steins, only a little less in your face about it. Cashman lives here, his family is settled here and he loves the Yankees. Don’t be so fast to show him the door.
Should we care if he goes? Absolutely not. I am not his biggest fan. He has won me over a bit in the last year or so with his farm-building emphasis. At the same time, he has continued to make boneheaded moves. I will not list all the pitchers he has gotten who absolutely suck. The prospects he has moved who were great. And let us NOT forget that Cashman was NOT the one who put together the dynasty team. He presided over its dismantling, but he did not assemble it.
I’m willing to give him another two or three years, based mainly on his last year’s performance, but it would not be the end of the world if he left and it could end up being a good think if he were to leave.
it really is a waste a time speculating about whether Cashman is going to leave or not…People did the same thing about AROD last year. He said something nice about Lou Pinella and all of a sudden the press starts babbling about him going to the Cubs…Everyone “knew” AROD was leaving…guess what they were wrong.
Cashman was allegedly out the door after his last contract ended…guess what he stayed. Lets try not to read too much into statements…Cashman said that Hank and Hal are asserting themselves as the owners…When Swindal was the heir apparent, Cashman was doing the same with him.
Even if he does leave life will go on…why is everyone so afraid of change…They’ll just make Opperheimer the GM…He is the one who drafted Hughes, Joba, Kennedy and others.
First, I want to say, Thanks Mike, for putting together a very well-written and well-thought out piece. Another conversation-starter. And I agree with others here that the last paragraph was very insightful, giving a different twist on the story than I’ve ever seen in print or heard anyone say before.
As for how I feel how the Cash/Steinbrenner dynamic, well I pretty much agree with SJ44/Old Yanks. I like Hank being a spokesperson for the team – I think it gives Brian Cashman the “stealth” he craves, and like SJ44, I think it’s much better to have quotes directly from the owner rather than some bland statement from the team’s publicist.
It think it is fairly apparent that Cashman is respected — the Steinbrenners have already approached him about coming back. Cashman had said once before that that will have to wait until he’s done with his work setting up the coming season, that it would be a distraction right now. But if he does leave, I don’t think it’s the end of the world. Just another ending. And, just a personal aside, I’ve had a few of those lately. They’re bittersweet, but you find that life, and business, goes on.
Anyway, I do remember reading that Hank Steinbrenner is very invested in building the team from within, in investing in the minor leagues and draft picks. That is good news, and that is Cashman’s influence. I believe there will be some adjustments, but I think ultimately they (Cashman and the S-Boys) will come to an agreement on how they can best work together. The thing to remember is no matter what has been said, all involved do seem to have the best interests of our team at heart.
Plus, as someone stated yesterday, Hank is nowhere near what the old George was in his heyday!
I would be very sad to see Cashman go. I hope we overpay just to keep him even if he wants to leave.
“That is what I believe Hank’s presence has given his father – it’s given him his dignity back.”
What dignity? As someone who’s followed the Yankees well before and throughout George’s tenure, I’d say his public persona was pretty devoid of dignity, unless that’s defined by bluster, ego and hyperbole. Behind the scenes, Steinbrenner could be a generous benefactor, especially to former players. But he left a pretty wide swath of abused employees and players in his undignified wake through his time as “boss”.
I don’t think Cashman’s decision to stay or leave will be money-based.
Wow It seems everytime someone who might leave the Yanks, we go into the Save Them mode. It seems like only yesterday some people wanted BC head on a platter. If he goes, maybe he can take with him his boys Carl P, Jason G, and that great pitcher from Japan.
Doug: Just because Cash made some bad signings doesn’t mean he’s a bad GM. Why don’t you just let him take Joba Chamberlain, Ian Kennedy, and Phil Hughes then (not to mention Melky, Horne, Melancon, Cox, etc.)
Let me second (or fourth or fifth, I haven’t counted) Peter Abraham’s thanks to Mike and all the other guest bloggers. This entry was particularly interesting, especially the paragraph about the ARod negotiations and Hal Steinbrenner.
I hope Peter calls on you guest bloggers again during the rest of the year. Another good time would be during Spring Training, if some of you travel down there to watch the team.
Morning all.
My phone seems to have dried out but still keeping my fingers crossed…
I don’t see Cashman making a decision till the en of the season, but I think once he makes it he’s not going to be on the fence about it, so I’m not going to fret.
Don’t get me wrong, I want him to stay real bad, but I’m not going to fret over something I can’t change.
Make no mistake about it, there’s more harmony among the braintrust than what appears on the surface.
A pitch has yet to be thrown since control of the team was relinquished to Hank and Hal and in a short space of time, they’ve accomplished many things.
They understand what they have in Brian Cashman and the way he goes about business. In a kidding sort of way, Hank Steinbrenner has said that Cashman is the frugal one of the group and if there’s been any suggestion made to the GM it’s been to loosen up a bit. They’ve probably told him that he should have signed Mo and Posada last spring when the chance was there for the taking. That was then and now is now.
The true test will come in the spring when roster decisions are made at the end of March and if Cashman feels there’s a difference maker out there to start the season, Hank and Hal will give him a large green light to proceed as necessary.
“I’m not going to fret over something I can’t change.”
I wish I could do that about everything I can’t change…but then I wouldn’t care about the Yankees’ moves, transactions, strikeouts, etc…
“They’ve probably told him that he should have signed Mo and Posada last spring when the chance was there for the taking.”
I doubt this very much because of the way the Yankees have let players play out the final year of a contract or arbitration (Jeter, Mo as two examples) through the years.
SJ44
I appreciate your input on this blog but have to disagree about your take on Hank neutering Boras.
Boras’s client still got what they were looking for (a 300M+ contract) and sure maybe they had to eat some figurative crow to get there but the bottom line is they still got paid. Plus the Yankees lost the 21M that Texas was kicking in.
I don’t consider that “getting it done”. Color me unimpressed with that particular business transaction.
The Yankees have always let players play out their final seasons and not extend them. I don’t have a problem with that strategy.
Hank has already offered Cashman an extension so, obviously, he is pleased with his work.
I’m sure Cash will play it out and see how it goes. Smart move on his part.
However, let’s be clear here. NOBODY, not Brian Cashman, Joe Torre, Derek Jeter or anybody else, is bigger than the Yankees.
I’m not really into drama too much. If somebody, whether its a player or management figure, wants out of NY, I say, “thanks for the memories and goodbye”. The franchise will not fall apart.
If they want to stay (see Arod: 2007), they seem to find a way to stay.
Even if it means blowing up long term business relationships.
The Yankees didn’t “eat” the 21 million. Arod ate it.
The only way the contract tops 300 million is if Arod hits his milestones. That’s not guaranteed money.
The deal he signed is the deal Hank and Cashman were prepared to offer him prior to his opt out. The guaranteed money is the same.
The incentives? Its actually a partnership between the Yankees and Arod, should he achieve those milestones.
Scott Boras would have NEVER cut the Yankees in on that money. He’s never done a “partnership deal” for a client with a team. He’s strictly a “pay my guy” type of guy.
SJ44
Well spoken as per usual. Any update on your organizational report on the Yanks Minor league system?
I’m not following how A-Rod ate the $21M?
If he signed the exact same deal offered prior to his opt out, he got the same amount.
21 million is the money the Rangers owed him.
Wouldn’t that $21M have been paid by the Rangers if he had signed an extension and now is being paid by the Yankees because of the opt out? How did A-Rod lose out?
Buddy,
Spent most of the holiday season sick as a dog. Just starting to feel like myself the past few days.
I will talk to Pete about putting something together in the coming weeks.
Phil, if they offered him the same $$ as they would have, had he not opted out. Alex ate the 21 million.
MIKE
I hope that you are right. Cashman is on the right track; if Hal is the money guy and Hank the persona, but not sole decision maker, there will be champion teams in the near future
Jaewon,
The only thing Cashman had to do with any of those players is he did not trade them. I think we know, Cashman had a trade on the table for Randy Johnson. That trade was Wang and Cano. If he makes that trade,I dont think we would be having this conversation
The total dollar number didn’t change…he was offered the same total number. The question is whether that total number was subsidized to the tune of $21M from the Rangers. Are you saying Alex’s total dollar number he signed for is $21M less than what he would have received if he had signed the extension?
Really outstanding commentary. I commend you.
Southron
Phil, now you have me confused. Someone said the Yankees offered him the same amount as they would have had he not opted out. I don’t know now.
Jen – hence my confusion as to how A-Rod ate the $21M.
Anyone else know? SJ44?
Wow anyone else have the Giant game on. It is a sea of red and white. They gave everyone a flag! I am actually rooting for the Giants for the rest of the season. And our favorite sports broadcaster is there, Joe BUCK!! woo hoo.
I can’t stand him!!
SJ44-
Sounds good, glad you are feeling better.
As long as someone actually employed by the team makes the decisions, that’s ok with me. As opposed to certain persons employed by glossy publications who go on WFAN and proclaim the Yankees HAVE to do such and such, they HAVE to, they can’t let the Red Sox do such and such. I hope management isn’t listening to those guys. Because 5 minutes later, the same guy will be bashing the Yankees for overspending.
I agree with SJ44. Like him, I feel heavily invested in the Yankees. Each weekend I travel 350 miles round trip to attend games. My season tickets have gone up in price by 30% this year.
I want to see the Yanks put the best team possible on the field in ‘08 and for years to come. Santana isn’t Randy Johnson or Kevin Brown. He’s in his prime.
Cashman has done a great job building the farm system. This trade uses that system without decimating it.As far as the money goes, I expect the same ticket price increase in ‘09 regardless if the payroll is $200mil or $150mil.We’re going to get soaked, so we might as well get soaked watching the best lefthander in the game.
Boras was ‘looking’ for $300m/10 yrs.
ARod got $270m/10 years.
There’s the $21m.
Would anyone else give ARod $300m? No. This is theory.
However, I believe ARod could have gotten $180m/6 yrs from the Angels or Mets… and maybe SF, or Boston.
180 and 6 are MUCH easier numbers to swallow then 300 and 10.
So maybe we got the last 4 years for $90m – in 2014 thru 2017 dollars, which with baseball inflation is like $65m in 2007 dollars.
The impression I got from what I read was that Hank told ARod the highest they were willing to go, subtracted $21m from it, and made the offer. That there was no negotiation of this ‘base’ salary, and no back and forth. They offered, he took.
So the Yanks got their $21m, but ARod got the maximum/best offer possible.
In terms of the $30m ‘bonus/partnership’, it is NOT guaranteed. ARod will have to stay healthy and play at a very high level for a long time to accomplish this. It is certainly in the Yankees BEST interest for this to happen. Aside from the onfield production, becoming the HR King is worth much more than $30m, not including the iconic and status value.
That’s 2 million $15 tee-shirts that say “812. HA!”
$30m is a drop in the bucket compared to the revenue stream for DECADES that the HR record will generate. So maybe you see it as the Yankees sharing it with the ARod, but maybe George et al know that it is really ARod sharing it with the Yankees.
Do you really believe that Cash, the Steinbrenners and all their high paid stats people are stupid? Do you folk out there think you know better what ARod is worth?
The Yankees were prepared to let ARod walk. As a matter of fact, he did walk. And it was ARod who desparately wanted back in… and NOT for the dollars. ARod was/is worth a fortune as a player, a marketing icon, a public speaker and in many other facets.
He WANTED to wear pinstripes. He wanted to go into the HOF with a NY on his cap. In reality, $20m means nothing to either the Yankees or ARod. $250m or $290m… you really think that means anything in the scope of this matter?
The Yankees got the deal THEY wanted. They wouldn’t have done it otherwise.
ARod got a great deal also. He’s a Yankee and he’s very rich.
The fans (most of them) got what they wanted.
We have 10 years of watching the greater 3rd baseman in the history of the game.
If any of you think the ARod ‘got over’ on the Yankees…
STOP DOING DRUGS! You are simply not thinking clearly!
Hey Cheddie, get a clue. He was talking about his dignity as a human being, not as an owner or a public figure. No need to trot George out there or let him suffer intrusive reporters and fans. Have you ever had an elderly person around that you had to care for?
Your post is another example of callous inhumanity.
Although Scott Boras wasn’t quick to exploit how much his client was worth off the field, Alex certainly knew it first hand. Four years of seeing the works of Madison Avenue had Alex convinced that there were no Madison Avenues elsewhere and his best chance was only in New York.
With a new stadium on deck and the media capital of the world, 10 Bostons piled on top of each other couldn’t have done as much.
Scott Boras gambled and lost and is now licking his wounds.
Pete/Mike,
Excellent guest blog. Found it very interesting.
Havent seen SJ44 in a while so glad you’re back and well also.
Let’s stop worrying so much about the Yankees money and more about getting the best team possible to win championships… a mix of veterans and strong younger players/prospects – and solid pitching. Yanks team right now (and for a few years to come) seems to be built in that mold.
Hey, how about those G-Men ! Keep it going. Heavy pressure on Garcia.
Looks to be another exciting day of football, don’t it?
So, like, do you guys enjoy it when I kill the thread?
Things don’t look so good for my Bucs, thanks Spurlock.
He just undid a lot of the good feelings Bucs fans had for him after returning the first kickoff for a TD in team history earlier this year.
Very well written and thought out post. One thing mentioned in the post and I think many people are overlooking is the power of Hal Steinbrenner. Hank may be the mouthpiece but I believe it is Hal that truly has the power as he controls the money.
Also all the talk about Cashman and his loss of power. It was my understanding that one of the major things he had issues with was the do called Tampa faction and how he really was not in charge of things like the draft, minor leagues etc. I o not see how this has changed at all, As far as I can tell all of his people are still in charge of these areas ie Oppenheimer, Newman etc and they all still report to Cashman and he still has control of these issues. I do not believe that when Casman got the new contract that the final decision on major moves rested with him. There is no way George would have allowed him to do whatever he wanted without having a conversation and George signing off on it. So now Cashman goes to Hank and has the conversation. Cashman always says on major moves that he has to talk wih the owenership group, the same still happens.
Now we may never know if there are moves made that Cashmandoes not agree wih but as far as I can tell this has not yet happened.
PS Have not seen anyone mention the fact that there are reports that Clemns spoke on the phone Friday night with Brian McNamee. That must have been a fun conversation, would have loved to be a birdie on that phone line.
Santana to Angels?
From Chad Jennings SWB Yanks Blog:
Q: Hank from New York, NY asks:
Is Lester, Crisp, Lowrie, Masteron too much for Santana? And who has the better offer on the table, the Sox or the Yanks offer that’s rumored to be Hughes, Cabrera, Marquez, 4th prospect. Thanks for the chat.
A:
Jim Callis: I don’t think that’s too much. From Boston’s standpoint, you’re upgrading Lester to Santana; replacing Crisp with Ellsbury; Lowrie has no place to play right now; and Masterson is a setup guy who could start or close elsewhere. That’s better than the Yankees’ offer, though I would take Hughes over any of the guys in the Boston package.
One other thing from that chat, Callis said he thinks the Angels have a better chance than the Yankees of getting Santana.
Tony Womack Should Be Our Left Fielder Again
January 6th, 2008 at 2:58 am
Just a thought, but you can offer constructive criticism without shameless self promotion of your own site.
Man, Eli can be painful to watch at times!
Santana is very expensive, both in terms of prospects and dollars. Take Hughes for example, if he is as good as many Yankee fans say, is it smart to make this move? The 100o innings he has on his shoulder for the last 4 years… is it smart to give him 7 yrs, $140 million?
On the other hand, with Santana, Wang and Pettitte as your top 3, the chances of winning a playoff series are quite good. Plus, with the AL the way it is, you may need Santana just to make the postseason.
Boston Dave: Who do the Angels have to offer Minnesota?
i can haz a johan?
Rebecca: you really are a thread killer!
Looks like the G-men might advance!
Bet you anything it picks up after 60 Minutes tonight.
is this going to be like the A-Rod 60 minutes where I have to sit there and watch the whole damn thing and then he’s on for 10 minutes?
Phil –
Here’s the breakdown. ARod was owed (at least) 81 million over the next three years on his next contract (had escalator clauses to push his last two years salaries to 32 million each). Yanks were going to offer a 6 yr extension for 180 mill. 81+180 = 261. Subtract the 21 million from Texas = 240/8. That equals 27.5 million per year. They extended the contract to 10 yrs to get the end of ARod’s HR breaking barrage at the same rate. That’s 10/275. ARod ate the 21 mill from Texas.
Of course!
GO GIANTS! Wooooooooooooooooooooo!
That is an INT!
Giants win.
It is OVA!!!
My husband is now teasing me, regardng what the Giants are going to do with possession and less than 2 minutes. I am the one last week who objected when the Patriots took a knee. So, will I stand by my vehemence that they should play out the clock?
Trouble is, now they have to go play in Dallas.
Well they have to kick it off. I say do a squib(sp) kick.
Damn I mean punt it.
Congrats to Eli! and the NY Giants.
GIANTS WIN Manning vs. Manning in the superbowl
I’d love that!! That would be no Pats
Now that would be great if (and hopefully) they both win next week there’d be plenty of articles on the chance. Not too far fetched. A proud father that would make their dad. A dream come true.
I could easily do a Manning Manning super bowl; no Pats and no Dallas!
So currently the Sox still have the best farm system?
The Giants won a playoff game for the 1st time since 2000 and won it directly across the street from Legends Field in Tampa. Sounds like a good luck rub for the Yankees.
16-0*-
?????????
The best farm system right now might, in fact, be Tampa Bay.
A shocker, I know, but they’ve got the makings of a team that takes itself seriously, and not as a joke like nearly everyone else does.
They only have the best farm system becuase they draft in the top 3 every year.
I planned on making one of these guest posts and Pete even said it was okay but their was some confusion and I won`t be making one here. If anybody`s interested I made a post about a pitching statistic I made. If you end up reading it I`d appreciate it if you voted on my poll.
http://riveravenuewatch.blogsp.....istic.html
Lets go Giants!
Dallas next week. I want to see Romo on the ground.
G-Men looked good. If Eli can play like that the rest of the way, I remain very optomistic, at least until a possible Super Bowl matchup! ha
Not sure if you guys have seen this. Cashman on the Yankees pen next season. Fairly obvious I guess, but it’s clarification.
http://mlbfleecefactor.com/200.....b-options/
Mike: That’s way past my ability to do math or understand statistics, but I like it. You should certainly go with it.
The guys over at river avenue blues had an interesting post about the Twins softening in their demands for Santana.
The local paper is reporting that the Twins are no longer demanding Kennedy but would be ok with Marquez and may even be interested in Igawa as the 4th player in the deal!
The guy who wrote the story – La Velle E. Neal – has been leaking stories for the Twins front office ever since the trade talks started. The Twins may be letting this leak to let their fan base know what’s coming – the Twins aren’t going to be getting the killer deal they’ve kept going on and on about publicly.
Looks like Bill Smith is facing up to reality. The Twins aren’t going to get their demands met. They are going to have to take the best deal available.
Don’t know if its possible – but if the twins are softening I’d like to see the yankees push to get this deal done without Hughes.
The yankee offer only needs to be better than boston’s. I’d try to make a 5-6 player offer centered on Kennedy and Horne. Something like Kennedy, Horne, Melky, Marquez, Alberto Gonzalez and Mitch Hilligoss/ Igawa.
The twins have been concerned with the prior offer because if Hughes doesn’t pan out then they only get average players for Santana. Now that reality may be setting in, getting Kennedy and Horne gives them less upside but also much less risk (e.g. hughes getting hurt). Two high quality arms like Kennedy and Horne will be better than Boston’s offer IMO and would structure the deal like the Haren deal so Smith can save some face. That 5-6 player offer is better than what the A’s got for Haren.
http://riveraveblues.com/2008/.....ment-44137
http://www.recordonline.com/ap...../-1/SPORTS
finally we got that S.O.B. Garcia !!!, oh it was sweet and ELI is turning up the intensity too
ELI GETS HYPED !!!
Not sure how everyone else in here feels about the SD/Tenn game…. but go Tennessee!!
I’m a Giants fan …w/ that said ..GO TITANS !!!
Very good, job, Mike. Nice overview, and your conclusion was especially insightful. Kudos!
Rebecca –
a little late and im not sure who Jim Callis was considering…
but the Angels have plenty of talent if they really wanted Johan.
Brandon Wood, Nick Adenhart, Jered Weaver, Gary Matthews Jr (and some money to pay his ridiculous contract), Reggie Willits.
They have some other pretty good youngsters. Not sure what it would take but they have enough talent to pull something off.
Those of you in the Save Hughes campaign would probably be pleased if Santana went to the Angels (vs Boston)… so there is hope.
Boston, I turned it off. Too boring, I’m now watch Storm Chasers.
We’ll see how good Eli is next week.
If San Diego wins, I’ll be 4-0 this week!
Rebecca – me too…. though I hope Tennessee wins. I like LT2 but I cant stand Philip Rivers or Shawn Merriman.
Who do you like next weekend (if its SD@Indy, Jax@NE, NYG@Dal, Sea@GB)?
There has been talk of Konerko for Kendrick or Figgins & Ervin Santana.
I could see Figgins going to Minny as part of a deal for Johan along with Adenhart or Wood & someone else.
Phil-
Wow, I BADLY mangled my numbers in that last post. So badly, I’m absolutely baffled at myself. I guess that’s what happens when you shoot off at the hip using big numbers straight from memory instead of doing your research to confirm them
. Let me try this again. ARod was owed 91 million over the next three years (had escalator clauses for ‘09 ‘10 in the contract to bump salaries up to something like 32 and 35 mill), the Yanks were offering an additional 5/150. Total value = 8/241. Subtract Texas’s 21 mill = 8/220. 220/8 = 27.5 per season. Bumped it to 10 years instead of 8 (to secure all the record breaking) and that’s how you come up with 10/275. That’s means, the Yanks gave him the same thing they were offering him pre-negotiations (minus the Texas money) plus the record breaking incentives they ended up negotiating.
Like the A-Rod interview, can I assume they stuck Clemens at the end of 60 minutes right before andrew Rooney?
Phil,
makes sense. I didnt hear all the details but are there any other notable inclusions such as escalators, like the ones he had in the previous deal, which require that he be the highest paid MLB player?
The way MLB revenues and in turn player salaries are shooting up, ARods deal might be considered a pretty good bargain in 5 years.
whatever – I’d say thats a safe assumption.
Rodg12 – meant that last post for you, not Phil…
The Tennessee/SD game is defintely the most boring of the 4 this weekend.
The Tennessee/SD game is defintely the least exciting of the 4 this weekend.
Fran, definitely…
next weekends games will be great though. can’t wait.
Boston Dave: Indy, NE (but I want JAX), Dallas and GB.
Boston Dave-
I didn’t hear anything about any escalator clauses in the new contract. Doesn’t mean that they aren’t there though. I do know the new contract is heavily front-loaded so that he will only be making 20 mill a year the last three years of the deal. The front-loading was an interesting concept because it actually is beneficial to ARod to get paid the money sooner (since inflation decreases the actual value of the salary over the life of the contract). However, from a layman sense, the contract seems like a win for the Yanks because they’d be “paying him less” when he’s older and assumed to be less productive.
Rebecca – I agree with your picks for next weekend. And as a fellow Jet fan I too would love to see Jacksonville beat NE.
“That is what I believe Hank’s presence has given his father – it’s given him his dignity back.”
Well done, thought out post. But have to disagree with your final statement. Hank is doing a poor imitation of his Dad. He watched his Dad run rough shod over people for years and it apparently didn’t occur to him this type of management style doesn’t work.
Mike NYY – Very nice. Does the runs scored per batted ball type include errors made and other defense related play? Also, I have some stats issues I’m working on that I would love some feedback on. I actually have some posted on a website. Woulkd you be up for a ’stats chat’ with me?
Yes… the first three years of ARod’s contract have him being paid at $27m, $32m and $32m, as well as $4m in (partial) signing bonus. So instead of $82.5m (3 x $27.5m), they pay him $95m in his first 3 years. So that $12.5m in ’savings’ lowers his annual salary in the later years.
I like this because they are paying more for the years ARod should be most productive and less for his ‘declining’ years.
The Clemens interview on “60 Minutes” is likely to be shown just before Andy Rooney’s segment. Remote controls will be working extra hard until then.
Another reason that A-rod is getting less in the later years is because in those years he will (hopefully) pass the homerun records so he will actually be getting more money then. And after he passes all the records they’re paying him nicely for continuing to make a bigger record.
WOOHOO GIANTS!!!!!!!! Finally, the Jeff Garcia monkey is off our backs!!! Great game, great D, solid job by Eli – life is good
Meanwhile this Chargers/Titans game is about as exciting as watching paint dry! All the Chargers fans who laughed last year about how much better Rivers was than Eli better be eating their words now!
And last but not least, many thanks to the guest bloggers for making the most boring offseason month more exciting. Been really fun reading all of them and I look forward to more. Oh, and Bergen County representin’ here too – Fair Lawn’s in the house!
Rodg12 and Old Yanks Fan –
the “pay him less during his later years” doesnt make any sense at all. As Rodg said, with time value of money / inflation , there is no advantage in paying more up front to ARod. Its not going to make or break anything, but that argument that paying more for his productive years makes zero sense.
That is what dvr’s are for. I have it set to record, and will come in at 7:30 ish. That wasy I don’t have to watch the other crap stories that they are airing.
I found a cool list of free agents for next offseason. Mark Teixeira anyone?
http://mlbfleecefactor.com/09-free-agents/
because of the football game 60 minutes might not start at 7:30. If you have a DVR I suggest you set it to record from 7:30 till 9:30 (instead of 8:30), just to make sure you get the whole program.
I’m recording the amazing race after it, but it looks like I’ll have to extend that as well. The Giants game went quickly, this one meanwhile is taking forever!
Mike, nice “Pinch Hit” today!!!
Who here’s more interested in the Clemens/McNamee than in the Wallace interview?
Guys,
Thanks for the A-Rod info. Sorry I didn’t reply back sooner, but have been watching the Band of Brothers DVDs and A-Rod’s salary seems just plain stupid compared to what those guys went through for $100/month.
Anyone think we have a chance against the Cowboys? I sure as hell do! Gmen, 28-24. Oh yeeeahhh.
Correction: Who here’s more interested in the “emotional” phone call between Clemens and McNamee than in the Wallace interview?
Four and oh! I rule!
So, who’s watching 60 minutes?
mel – I’d much rather hear that call than the interview. The interview prob won’t change anything or anyones minds.
Boston me too, oh to be a fly on the wall.
Boston Dave,
Exactly. Unless anyone here has an incredible BS meter or is an expert in reading body language.
Isn’t 60 Minutes an investigative reporting show? Would be nice if they dug up some guys other than Radomski & McNamee.
A little late checking in today, but I wanted to be sure to say that was a great job you did today, Mike.
I can’t add much that hasn’t been said already, but I do agree with everyone that said the closing statement was very insightful and presented a view that most of us probably haven’t thought of until now.
I do think that it was important that one of the Steinbrenner sons (whichever one) made sure that they stepped up and made it clear that there was an active occupation of the owners seat once they took over for their dad. That said, Hank does need to learn when to step back and resist the urge to speak at times. He’s definitely like his old man in that regard.
The big positive is that Hal holds the pursestrings and brings balance to the table. He’s a good liaison between the respective methods of Cashman and Hank, who both obviously want to improve the team – they just aren’t necessarily the same animal in the way they want to do it. We should be thankful that BOTH of the Steinbrenner sons are involved because of this. I do think that for all of his overeagerness to be in the press, Hank does have better restraint than his father traditionally had.
As for Cashman, I think the consensual reaction has been to overstate his “loss of control” a bit. Cashman is no idiot – he knows that regardless of the increase in power he has been handed the last couple of years, he still has a boss (or bosses, in this case). He’s not going to have complete control – no GM EVER will. I think he’s fully aware of the fact that he’s not always going to have things go the way he wants them to. As long as he still has his wish of having control over player drafting and development, and the organization as a whole shows respect for it (doesn’t trade away all of their best prospects) – he can call his job a success. He can’t keep every good prospect – and he has even said himself that you don’t draft and develop talent simply to keep it all. Some of it is going to be used in trade negotiations. I think the important thing though is that you don’t make a habit of trading your BEST prospects. In this case, with Phil Hughes having been the first huge prospect the Yankees had emerge in years, there’s a lot of justifiable reluctance to let him go. Sure, Joba has passed him up on the “lists”, but he was still the first guy we were all able to sincerely get amped about in a long time. I don’t think that Cashman’s admission regarding the shift in his job description is a signal that he is on his way out, but rather an acknowledgement of changes within the organization with the transition from father to sons. Let’s wait and see how at least the first half of the year plays out before we panic about Cash being on his way out the door.
And again – bravo, Mr Faded Glory.
Well it isn’t story #1.
Jennifer,
Is it on now? We have a tape delay and they’re showing informercials right now.
Roger looks bad already. The old ‘doesn’t 25 years buy any respect’ line. Hope he can better then that.
I may need play-by-play and color analysis.
crap – I DVR’d it and forgot that it ran late…. so I missed everything after Roger spoke about Vioxx. did i miss anything important?