Steinbrenner statement on Gossage
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jan 08, 2008 
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Here is a statement that spokesman Howard Rubenstein is attributing to George Steinbrenner:
“The Baseball Hall of Fame was really on the ball today in their selection of my close friend, Goose Gossage. Goose was a fierce competitor and one of the all-time great pitchers, who in his career, set a new standard for relief pitching. The New York Yankees are very proud of his achievement and I, personally, would like to congratulate him and his family on this wonderful honor!”
First?
The Boss is back!!!
(sort of).
Real heartwarming stuff!
Hey, what’s the comment total for today, anyway? I can’t keep up with any of the threads!
Another fine piece of writing, Mr. Rubenstein!
agreed. he should start a blog!
Attribute is certainly the right word Pete. Rubenstein statements are beginning to sound less and less like George and more and more like press release dribble. I just cant see/hear George saying that the voters were really “on the ball”
saucy: But it wouldn’t be as fun to read as Pete’s! Could you imagine him live blogging a game?
gayle,
How about “On top of their game”?
What makes me LMAO is that he used exclamations in the last two “statements” that I’ve seen.
Peter Gammons just brought up something that i think was very intersting on the Jim Rice coversation. He said that people forget that there were at least 3 work stoppages during his heyday in terms of lockout, shortened season, etc and that you really need to look at that in terms of his numbers and what they would have been had they played full seasons. INteresting and had not really thought about that.
Gayle,
Did he mention how many games he missed? That would be a big part of that rationale. I’m so suprised Peter is fighting for Jim Rice.
Doesn’t Pete hale from the NE area? Doesn’t surprise me at all.
I’m not familiar with Jim Rice, so I can’t say whether he should be elected or shouldn’t be elected, but I do agree that you have to evaluate every player within the context of when they played.
Congrats Goose! Rice should be in, too.
These statements from George are almost as realistic as the ones Castro is still making in Cuba.
14th!
Seriously why do people feel the need to say they were first?
he did not say but I think the big one for rice at least was 1981 when the game was shut down for almost 2 months
I wish Pete would block the idiots who find the need to say first. WHO THE HECK CARES??!!
Why is anyone shocked that Peter Gammons is pushing for Rice. He was a sox. I heard he ripped Nyer a new one for saying Rice shouldn’t be in the hall. Peter forgets that he is supposed to be objective as a writer, he needs to get his red sox glasses off.
Breakdown of the baseball work stoppages.
http://tinyurl.com/278dw5
1981 is the only one that affected Rice by him missing games. Sure there were 3 “stoppages” Gammons, but only 1 cost him games. 45-50 games still doesn’t increase his counting stats to the hallowed marks. You’d still be making the same arguments for Rice you’re making now.
Some assorted points:
somebody asked two threads ago whether it was true Raines had a higher career OBP than Gwynn: this is not true, although the difference is small: .385 vs. .388.
Gayle – Gammons always has an excuse for his Beantown buddies. The arguments he most used were that Rice finished in top of the MVP voting so many times. So what if there’s a work stoppage then. BTW, I don’t think those opposing Rice’s candidacy are big fans of counting (as opposed to rate) stats anyway.
The caller making the David Ortiz argument (last thread) tries to appeal to the emotions and hearts of Red Sox fans even more. Yet, it ignores the fact that Rice was atrocious away from Fenway (.320/.374/.546 at home vs. .277/.330/.459 on the road). In due time, Ortiz’s stats also have to be seen a bit in the light of Fenway, but he was/is still a fearsome hitter on the road as well. Rice wasn’t.
rodg12
Peter Gammons is a moron, he fails to look deeper into numbers. Should we look at how much time players spent on the dl too? Please! Peter that is so lame.
Did anyone read Rob Neyer’s chat on ESPN today? There was at least 5 or 6 Red Sox fans calling him names just for rationally describing the reasons why Jim Rice didnt belong in the HOF.
Gammons has done this for this long that he more or less can get away with it.
To be completely honest, it really doesn’t bother me.
I know as a Yankees’ fan, my writing will always have a Yankees’ bias, whether or not I want it to be there.
Baseball writers are supposed to be objective, sure, but ideals are usually far from reality.
Gammons once picked Bobby Crosby to win the MVP. Yes, that Bobby Crosby. Over Arod, over Manny, over Ortiz, over Vlad. Sometimes his bias towards the A’s and Billy Beane is as much as his bias towards the Sawx.
Steve,
That was just the “tip of the iceberg”. The other 208,115 people couldn’t get their comments posted.
Check out this poll result:
http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/.....incoming=1
” He said that people forget that there were at least 3 work stoppages during his heyday in terms of lockout, shortened season, etc and that you really need to look at that in terms of his numbers and what they would have been had they played full seasons. ”
this is getting just plain sad.
Rice’s last year on the ballot is ’09, and he’s up against Rickey Henderson, who’s a lock. But who knows? There could be 3 or 4 that go in next year. The writers are a funny breed (no offense, Pete).
How many years do you get to stay on the HoF ballot?
I think it is a mortal lock that Rice gets in next year. There are too many Red Sox fans and apologists out there for him not to get in not to mention Gammons still gets credit as an unbiased writer who also happens to be in the Hall of Fame. I think it is sad that someone like Rice might get in and most likely Papi (HGH) Ortiz will get in too but someone with true class like Bernie Williams might not.
Ortiz and HGH? Is that fact or are you just hatin?
Clay,
If Roger Clemens is guilty because of how his body changed, then Ortiz is guilty because his body changed. See how lame that argument is?
Clay
I dont know who used PED’s but if someone like George Mitchell can throw names around and get credibility with his obvious bias then so can anyone. And dont tell me that Papi doesnt fit the profile that everyone else uses when determining users.
I don’t think people are saying Roger is guilty because his body changed, they are saying he is guilty because a PED pusher says he injected him with Steroids.
Rebecca- Players can stay on the ballot for 15 years as long as they always get five percent of the vote, so next year is Rice’s last chance.
Clay
Dont forget that Ortiz once said that he didnt even know whether he took steroids before because he doesnt read the labels of all the stuff he took. And please dont tell me that people havent assumed who used steroids without any evidence whatsoever.
But Roger looks like an old rotweiler, Big Papi’s just fat. What’s the same?
that fact that tim raines got so little votes makes all of this look silly. If Ricky Henderson gets in (which he should) Tim Raines should get in.
Wouter,
Thanks for the stats. It still pretty impressive that he was that close to Gwynn OBP carreer numbers. Like someone stated earlier, i wonder if he would have gotten more recognition if he played in a big market team like Rice did?
Clay,
No, but they use it as an “aha! Roger must be guilty”. There are also websites dedicated to the change of his physique. Comparing a skinny college kid to a middle-aged man. We all know that men hit their physical peak in their late 20′s, so it’s concievable that he “bloomed” later.
Rice got screwed again. There’s a poll on the Rice issue at this link if anyone wants to vote.
http://mlbfleecefactor.com/200.....e-fleeced/
Anybody got a good estimate of the ratio of people who gain HOF votes from one year to the next, to the people who lose or don’t make any ground in HOF voting from one year to the next? Cause if Rice is so close this year, then I think that it’s likely that he’ll naturally get the last few to get in next year, but I’m not sure
Was anyone listening to 1050 ESPN when Pettitte’s lawyer was on? What sort of things did he say?
Wonder how long the next Yankees pitcher will be inducted.Good Pettitte won’t be there.But I wonder if Clemens will still be inducted I think he will.Or we have to wait for Mariano.
That’s interesting, Blargh. Rice played a generation ago? So the whole he wasn’t personable argument might not hold much weight if there aren’t too many old-timers who covered him still voting. It’d be interesting to look at the age demographics of the voters.
Now that others are being accussed of PED, does that hurt Mcguires chances or help him? If a voter is going to make an acception for lets say a Bonds. Will the voter maybe make him the only acception, being he was going to go in before he started taking anything?
Blargh- I heard Rob Dibble on XM today say this is the 21st time someone has topped 70% without getting the required 75%. Gotta hurt…
jdawg: Thanks!
How long has Mattingly been on the ballot? do you guys think he’ll get in?
ed, many of us here do not believe Rice is HOF worthy.
On another note, I don’t think Papi is going to do enough to make it to the HOF. He’ll be 33 this year and he’s a bad bodied slugger. He would have to have 4 or 5 more monster years and still probably wouldn’t reach 450 HR. I’ve seen people debate about Frank Thomas and as good as Ortiz has been these past 3/4 years he’s no where near the hitter Thomas was at his peak.
Ok so this is what I get from this, Papi is a Red Sock and he hits homeruns so he must be a juicer. I remeber when Papi said that, that doesn’t mean he did it. Maybe he did, there isn’t any proof of it though. Show me a credible sourch that has linked Ortiz to HGH, otherwise you are just spewing Red Sux hate.
Doesnt Clemens have to go in as a Red Sox? He played played there than any other team he’s been on.
sos, i agree, that combined with his career SB% (84%, higher than Henderson’s 80%), and a few other factors made Tim Raines an absolute beast. Actually, The Hardball Times has published a few articles with the points you and I just made here.
Blargh: The Hardball Times (yes, again) had an article on the topic yesterday I believe. According to their “guidelines”, Rice would get in next year I think, though I really dread the day.
IMO, i don’t think your going to see a huge jump next year in votes for Rice. For the most part, the difference may come down to newly eligible voters and those who retire. I really doubt a writer is going to change their mind. To me, I don’t think many writers would want to openly contradict themselves by not voting for someone one year, but then voting for them in the following year.
Bronx Liaison -
Rice v. Raines v. Allen
Dick Allen has FAR better numbers then Rice in offense, and blows Rice away on defense and running. It’s not even close. Are you even looking at their numbers.
OPS: Rice-0.854 (half games at fenway) Allen: 0.912
OPS+: Rice: 128 Allen: 156
Rice does not compare to Allen in ANY of the baseball skills except HRs, where they were about even.
Do you think that running and defense have any meaning when evaluating an MLB player? Raines is widely considered the 2nd best lead-off man in history (with Ricky being #1)
“By a methodology called “JAWS†that I’ve used to evaluate the Hall of Fame ballot for Baseball Prospectus since 2004, Raines is overwhelmingly qualified for election. According to JAWS he ranks as the ninth-best left-fielder of all time, behind Barry Bonds, Stan Musial, Rickey Henderson, Ted Williams, Pete Rose, Jim O’Rourke, Ed Delahanty and Carl Yastrzemski — some pretty fair ballplayers. If that sounds crazy, consider that James himself ranked Raines eighth in his New Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract back in 2001, calling him the second-most valuable leadoff hitter in history, behind only Henderson. He was that good.†(notice NO Jim Rice)
1) Raines was above average on D, Rice below average.
2) Raines is one of the best runners/basestealers in the history of the game, Rice below average.
3) Raines has 750 MORE SBs then Rice. If you take 80% of that (600) and change 600 of Raines’ singles to doubles, his OPS is WELL Higher then Rice. Offensive number that DO consider SBs
4) Rice’s OPS is .130 lower away from Fenway, below .790
5) Rice retired at 36 while Raines played until 43, 7 years more.If Jim played longer, his HR would have gone up (but he still would not approach 500), but his average, OBP and OPS would go down. Has Raines quit 5 years earlier (and he only had 13 SBs in his last 5 years), his BA, OBP and OPS would be way higher.
6) Lastly, in the all-important RC/G category, Rice is at 6.0 compared to Raines at 6.6 (EVEN including all of Raines declining years). Meaning a team full of Raines’s scores 100 more runs in a season then a team full of Rices. And that doesn’t account for the additional Runs Allowed by Rice because of substancially worse defense.
Here’s another stat where Raines blows Rice away:
http://img123.imageshack.us/im.....355uo3.png
Rice was very much a product of Fenway, as all his numbers reflect (even if you memory doesn’t). As far as being a ‘great’ HR hitter, he hit more then 30 HRs only 4 years of his career.
Here’s what the HOF website says about the logo on the cap:
Who decides what team logo will be used on Hall of Fame plaques?
The choice of which team’s logo appears on a player’s plaque is the Museum’s decision, though we always consider the wishes of an inductee. As a history Museum, it’s important that the logo be emblematic of the historical accomplishments of that player’s career. A player’s election to the Hall of Fame is a career achievement, and as such, every team for whom he played is listed on the plaque; however, the logo selection is based on where that player makes his most indelible mark.
Congrats to the Goose! I was at the playoff game in ’78 when he went 2.2 ins in relief of Guidry and got Yaz to pop out for the final out. Yes I’m old.
Rice has no business in the HOF and if it weren’t for his uniform this wouldn’t even be a debate.
Jim PA
Oh, I miss Dibble’s Show on XM! I used to listen a bit every afternoon when I was transporting my daughter from school. But she’s now away at college and I don’t have XM INSIDE the house!
I’m curious what Dibble’s take on the Clemens situation is?
I did hear Mark Patrick and Buck Martinez this a.m., but I had to turn it off, because Patrick is very, very biased against anyone whose name is associated with steroids (his son plays college ball and it is his mission, I believe, to get rid of steroids among younger athletes — I applaud such a mission but he’s got Clemens tried and fried already).
Jim PA
Oh, I miss Dibble’s Show on XM! I used to listen a bit every afternoon when I was transporting my daughter from school. But she’s now away at college and I don’t have XM INSIDE the house!
I’m curious what Dibble’s take on the Clemens situation is?
I did hear Mark Patrick and Buck Martinez this a.m., but I had to turn it off, because Patrick is very, very biased against anyone whose name is associated with steroids (his son plays college ball and it is his mission, I believe, to get rid of steroids among younger athletes — I applaud such a mission but he’s got Clemens tried and fried already).
Will Ichiro have a chance to make it in the HOF even thoough he played half his carreer in Japan? To me if your just going on era, I think he is one of the best players in his. Therefore if he has 3 or 4 more years like his usual stats, i think they should consider him.
I think Ichiro will get in if he plays long enough…how many years is it he’s lead the league in hits?
Sorry for the double post
Old Yanks Fan
Great comparison of Raines v. Rice. I remember Raines and I agree he’s HOF-caliber. But unfortunately it does not look good for him as far as the voting goes. How many more years does he have on the ballot, and if he does not get in that way, what do you think his chances are of getting in via the Veterans’ Committee?
Lori -
There is one player who was recently inducted who requested a specific logo for his cap, but the HOF did not agree and so he went in with NO TEAM on his cap. His name escapes me, but I’ll look it up.
Rebecca – Four. And he ranked second in his three other seasons.
Doreen –
14 more years, if he keeps getting at least 5% of the vote. This was his first year on the ballot.
And second: didn’t Wade Boggs sign a contract to go in with a Tampa Bay cap or something?
Lori,
It was Catfish Hunter. I suppose it was because his impact career-wise was about equal for Oakland and the Yankees.
They used to honor the request of the ballplayer, but now the general rule is whatever team the player left the most imprint on. Gary Carter wanted to go in as a Met because that’s where he won a championship, but the HOF determined he had his most career impact in Montreal, so he has an Expos cap. But the plaques mention all teams, of course.
Wouter: Thanks for the reference
Going over the guidelines, it looks like Rice will be helped by the strength of ballot (with only Rickey being the strong newcomer) guideline and the last year on the ballot guideline (~67% of those in the last year gained)
Yeaaa…looks like he’ll make it in next year
Whoever it was that said that suspecting Ortiz for PED use is just Red Sux hate is wrong. I suspect any player that gets released after performing poorly and then immediately becomes an MVP candidate while boosting their power statistics. I only mentioned Ortiz as a comparison to Jim Rice since they are both Red Sox and the same people who are dying to get Rice in HOF will be trying to get Ortiz in the HOF in about 10 years. If people are going to question Clemens and Bonds even though neither has ever failed a drug test than I would hope they would question people like McGwire, Ortiz, Luis Gonzalez, Sosa, Schilling, Randy Johnson, and even someone like Jamie Moyer who had a late career renaissance. I just cant see how Ortiz escapes notice with people just dismissing him as fat. Has anyone ever seen him with his shirt off? Do we know for a fact that all that weight is a beer belly or maybe he is really muscular with veins popping everywhere with tons of bacne? Either way, we can no longer ignore blindly people who come out of nowhere to become great or who sustain greatness into their 40s with their “great workout regimen”.
Boggs is in as a Red Sox.
Wouter: Thanks! =D
Doreen:
Eddie Plank?
http://www.baseballhalloffame......120616.jpg
Thanks Wouter -
So there’s hope for Raines if the PR goes just right.
Jim Rice belongs in the Hall of Fame.
oops, nevermind… :/
Saucy, I can’t do the link, but Eddie Plank played for the Philadelphia Athletics and is in the HOF as an Philly Athletic. Apparently their cap did not have an insignia, but the three horizontal lines as shown in the plaque. I went to the HOF website.
Steve, It’s fine if you suspect him of it. I am of the opinion that the majority of baseball hase used PED’s, but you don’t just look at a players body. Could you tell that Guillermo Mota was a user? If you want to suspect Ortiz then people can rightfully suspect Arod, Jeter or anyone else. The fact is no credible source has ever suspected Ortiz of using PED’s, as with Jeter and Arod, so why would you paint them all with the same brush. There is a difference with people like Clemens, Bonds, Mcgwire, etc., because they have been involved in steroids.
Goose is having a press conference tomorrow (Wednesday) noon ET, at the Waldorf in NYC.
I know we were talking about L+O last night…I’m watching an SVU episode right now and it might be the weirdest episode I’ve ever seen…
I used to watch the original L&O all the time. I lost interest when that blond attorney was Jack’s assistant and never got back. I could never embrace SVU, the stories were just too depressing, for lack of a better word. But it was my favorite (L&O) for a very long time and I still like to watch the syndicated episodes.
I’m a CSI gal, but hate the CSI Miami one and only watch the CSI NY one for Gary Sinise.
Actually my husband and I spend a lot of time watching M*A*S*H* ! Talk about living in the past !
Doreen,
You should start watching L&O again. They introduced a bunch of new characters. McCoy is now the DA, so he’s not a renegade anymore. But the character that took over for him takes even more risks than he used to.
2 new episodes on Wednesday.
Thanks Mel. I will. With the writers strike, it’s a good oportunity to watch programs I’ve missed.
“I could never embrace SVU, the stories were just too depressing, for lack of a better word.”
My sister’s the same way. She prefers her entertainment to make her feel happy in the end.
She watches a lot of disney movies and romantic comedies:-)
My favorite movies include 300 and Moulin Rouge!
And I’m a Jets/Nets fan.
Draw your own conclusions.
Rebecca:
Is that Moulin Rouge movie you like the 2001 version or the 1952 version with Jose Ferrer?
McLovin: I’ve only seen the 2001 version.
My conclusion is that you’re from Jersey!
Rebecca:
Oh man everybody says that.The Classic is not a musical but Jose Ferrer,Zsa Zsa Gabor are perfect.Maybe I need to update my movie collection:)
Will you still be a fan of the Brooklyn Nets?
Buddy killed the blog.
Anyway, what does everyone think about what the media is doing to Roger.
He has done everything the media has asked of him.
1. spoken out
2. done an interview
3. Held a press conference
4. filed a law suit
But some memebers of the media find a reason wrong with everything he did. I heard a clip of Russo screaming why did it take so long to file suit. Um because you have to get all your ducks in a row. You can’t just run off willy nilly and file suits. I also heard someone complaining why he took 3 weeks to speak out. I’d say see above. You have to step back from the situation. I also heard someone saying he seemed so angry he must be guilty. Um (lets for the sake of arguement assume Roger is being truthful) Well wouldn’t you be angry if someone was falsely accusing you of something?
I really hope he is being truthful, because it will only get worse for him and his children. His son would probably be run out of baseball. And he will have lost all hope of getting in the Hall. (I certainly didn’t believe him that he doesn’t care if he gets in. All he ever spoke about was wanting to get in so his mother could be there. I believe that was spoken out of anger and frustration with the media as a whole, because no one is on his side).