Buy me some peanuts and HGH
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jan 09, 2008 
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You have to wonder whether Bud Selig is still so pleased with himself for getting George Mitchell to investigate the use of performance enhancing drugs in baseball.
I’m trying to figure out how looking into the past will help the game now or in the future. Thanks to this investigation, baseball is all tied up by Congress, the IRS, the FBI, assorted lawyers, weepy trainers and preachy columnists wringing their hands.
The Hall of Fame has been dragged into the muck and the 2008 season is headed that way. Andy Pettitte is now scheduled to appear before Congress on Feb. 13, a day before he reports to Tampa.
For what? Selig would have been much better off having Mitchell simply investigate the testing program and come up with ideas to improve it. The Mitchell Report should have ended there. Now Selig has created a world where grandstanding Congressmen will try and get teammates to rat each other out before a live television audience. We don’t need to see Rusty Hardin in action, thanks anyway Mr. Commissioner.
We should be reading about Joba Chamberlain and Jacoby Ellsbury, two Native American kids who will be center stage in the game’s biggest rivalry. Or hearing tales of the old days from Goose Gossage. Or trying to guess when Ken Griffey Jr. will hit his 600th home run.
Instead we get lawyers, hearings, charges and counter-charges. For what? I get it, a lot of players cheated. I knew that before. Stop telling us, just fix it. Give us back baseball.
Amen Pete!
We should be reading about Jacoby and Joba, how about it, Pete?
The media certainly isn’t helping by live blogging and televising every press conference and news release.
Ryan: What choice to do we have, this is what the game is now. Thanks to Selig and Mitchell, steroids have become the story. You think I like posting steroids stories? Fact is, we had 1,000 comments a few days ago and almost all were about steroids. The page views are off the charts, too. Unfortunately, this is the story.
So then why don’t we move it elsewhere?
We are capable of directing the discussion, grassroots if you will.
So when will Griffey hit 600? If he stays healthy?
I agree Rebecca, lets get it back to where it should be. How many does Griffey have anyways?
I agree Pete, it’d be foolish for you to not cover it, and this won’t go away until Selig quits.
593.
Given his rate of injury, I’m going to go with 7 June 2008
You really think Griffey won’t hit seven homers until June? I would say somewhere in mid-May, considering he hit his seventh homer last year on May 13th.
Pete – I couldn’t agree with you more. And that doesn’t mean ignoring the problem, just realizing that what’s done is done, and this is not a national security problem.
Bud Selig has really screwed this up. Yes, Bud and all of organized baseball, by turning a blind eye all these years, and now dragging the sports’ stars through the mud. Do you think the David Stern and the NBA would do this? Does the NBA have problems? Absolutely. The whole gangsta-rap culture is something that Stern is afraid of. Why do you think Stern tried his dress code last year? To improve the image of the league.
And what does Bud do? Tear down the drawing cards for his industry.
I agree with Rebecca, let’s try to turn the discussion. It may not be much, but we, as fans, can try.
Nate: Griffey’s had a horrible spate of injuries, if I remember correctly. If he stays healthy, I can see it in May, but I’m allowing injury time.
Also, when going for a certain milestone it can take ages. Took A-Rod ages to get from 499 to 500 and took Martin Brodeur, a different sport ages to get from 499 to 500 wins.
wow 593 homers!
I got the Yankee blinders on so tight I didn’t have a clue
Pete, I’d buy ya a beer if I could. Great, simple post
(Or a Grey Goose or whatever it is you like.)
Griffey: #600 on April 24th at home vs. Houston. Day game.
Pete,
Blog post of the year.
(Even if it is just January 9th
)
Why not make a contest out of Griffey’s 600?
Whoever gets it right gets to…get something hah!
Amen Pete.
Moving the Congressional hearings to the day before pitchers and catchers report is an obvious attempt at grandstanding.
I’m glad Congress is protecting us from steroids. I know…I know….think of the children…we must save the children from steroids.
Peter,
You are confusing cause and effect.
Congress had threatened to take action to remove MLB’s anti-trust exemption if MLB wasn’t cleaned up. That is what caused Selig MLB to act. So he appointed Mitchell.
Congress, acting within its constitutional authority under the Commerce Clause, has an interest in cleaning up the PED problem in MLB.
Let’s not forget Griffey, if he could finish his career strong (ie get close to what Bonds did), Ken seems to be the only person could possibly pass Bonds before A Rod. I for one am glad Griffey is in the National League, as he was definitely a Yankee killer.
Holy crap, I just realized the Reds are coming into town on June 20-22 and my Sat package includes the 21st, which just so happens to be my wife’s due date. Guess I’ll be selling those.
the reason that we don’t just ignore it even though the mitchell report is a joke is because of the abuse of basic rights of the players. if the federal government can do it to them they can do it to any of us.
anyone who has read in the defamation suit the actual words of mcnamee describing how he was coerced by us attorney parrella and irs agent novitsky has to have doubt about mcnamee telling the truth.
it looks to be an abuse of federal authority. it looks like they pressured mcnamee to lie.
that’s why we are paying attention to it. that’s not supposed to happen in our country.
Jeff: What’s your price? I might be interested in purchasing
(Best of luck to you and your wife!)
Worst.
Commissioner.
Ever.
I submit that Bud Selig and his “reputation saving” dog and pony show have damaged baseball more than the PED scandal did.
It boggles my mind that Mitchell named names without a shred of evidence and based his entire report on the sole testimony of a troubled character like Brian McNamee. This was a multi-million dollar effort and all Mitchell got was this? A waste of taxpayer dollars is what this was.
The moral of the story is, if you really, really want to screw something up, get the government involved.
At this point, I hope Roger is actually clean (although I doubt it) and he sticks it to Selig and Mitchell but good.
Pete, you are absolutely right. Thank you for being a voice of reason. I like to watch baseball, period. Not issues surrounding it.
Hey Pete,
Give me a story about Joba, and Ellsbury and I will eat it right up, I promise. I don’t comment that often but I read your blog every day. Something like that may not have as many comments as a steroid piece, but its not because baseball fans don’t enjoy it. Its just easier to argue about….
One of my teachers at college was a native american and was pretty miffed when I had her in the in the Fall of 07 because of the lack of native americans in professional sports. I sent her a parking lot baseball cap when Joba started his little end of the year tear.
Can anyone explain why an IRS agent (Novitsky) is involved with this case? I understand why with Bonds as there were tax charges possibly pending. But what does that have to do with McNamee?
Selig will go into the HOF along with the 2nd worst commissioner ever (Bowie Kuhn) and Fay Vincent and Marvin Miller will still be looking in the window.
Larry,
If I had to guess, its because even government agents arent immune to wanting the publicity. They have a chance to get in the news and actually be somebody… so they take it. There really is zero justification for it (at least that I can think of).
Rebecca, I usually sell for near face unless it’s like the Mets. I would post it on Craigslist, I’m pretty sure Peter doesn’t want people buying and selling on this site. My seats are out in LF Main level in fair territory. Good parts are the seats face home plate directly and HR’s are hit there (I was in the scrum for A Rod’s 500th). It’s always a good time though.
tonyb-
you sound objective yet you think clemens probably did it. have you read the novitsky/parrella interrogation in the defamation lawsuit? if you have, why would you think that mcnamee is telling the truth about clemens?
these federal agents are going to have to defend what they did to coerce the statement out of mcnamee. if they ever have to do that in public they’ll look like morons. which makes one wonder why they aren’t being asked to testify under oath in front of congress how they got mcnamee’s statement?
if they got it in a legal way, what are they afraid of? if you notice ,they haven’t said one word in rebuttal to the defamation lawsuit that bashes them.
Jeff: How many? And would I have to purchase all of them?
when I log on I get last years blog first.
this time last year we were talking about Andy Pettit and Rodger Clemens too. There were like 14 coments though.
have you noticed the results of the new poll?
442 yes
407 no
372 not sure
for those who dont mind talking about the Clemens story, Clare had a really good post at the bottom of the last thread. She caught Mitchell in a LIE.
yes, George Mitchell – Mr. Integrity himself
A friend emailed this link to me. Her friend took all these pictures. ENJOY!!
http://www.ballparks.phanfare.com
Agreed.
BD: Then maybe we should get Clare to represent the Yankees!
Outstanding post, Peter.
The only benefit to looking backwards is to help us all understand the scope of the problem. But that could be done without names, and more easily at that.
whoa,
I disagree about Pete confusing cause and effect. People who have been following the story (like Pete Abe)
know that Congress forced Selig’s hand — this is one of the main reasons he chose a former member of Congress to investigate.
Things might have been fine if he never included any names in the report, but then the public would be screaming to know who the cheaters were.
And as someone who watched Senator Mitchell play partisan hardball with the first Pres. Bush, I was not at all surprised that he allowed tha names of former Yankees to be dragged down, knowing full well that other abusers were getting a pass because they had other suppliers besides McNamee or Radomski.
I don’t care about Mitchell’s supposed good reputation — he is still a Red Sox fan and board member. I truly wonder if the report would have looked different if Ortiz or Manny had been fingered by Mcnamee.
Thanks Dave, but I do not understand how he would have jurisdiction. IRS handles tax matters. Were they investigating McNamee for tax evasion?
Rebecca, we have four but we would sell them in two’s also. FYI, we’re finding out the fetus’s sex within a few days, and Rebecca is definitely one of the girl R names leading the pack.
Pete:
After seeing how so many uneducated people bash you (much like a Sox troll) I would advise you to put in a registration system and then tell them to suck it.
As far as steroids it is unfortunately the sensation and therefore the story in this land of 24/7/365 instant media.
My feeling is this. The Report is a travesty for all the reasons we discussed here. .itchell is as much independent as he is a fraud. Why didn’t they do the same for football or hockey? Why didn’t he look outside of NYC?? Unfortunately this will go on for awhile. But it will stop at some point. It has to. As the Government is involved at some point someone has to say”This os costing taxpayers…knock it off!!!!”
We just have to weather the storm. However I quote “The Bard”:
“We should shoot all the lawyers.”
Larry,
your guess is as good as mine. I think we can all agree at this point that something doesn’t smell right.
I couldn’t agree more… totally a self-inflicted wound… bud selig is an idiot and should be forced to resign…
Jimbo,
I’ve asked that question to myself many times. And sadly, I cant say for sure that it would not have been different. Which is why Mitchell is the perfect guy for Selig… accuse Mitchell of anything, with his track record, and you must be a fool. It’s like accusing Bush of anything and being told that you must not support the troops.
Amen Pete, I completely agree with you on this one. Very well said.
The last thing I want to see is Andy Pettite having to choose between lying for his friend/teammate before Congress(and possibly serve a jail sentence) or giving up Roger and saying “Yes, he did steroids”. Its not a pretty sight when the law people get involved and it shouldn’t happen. Andy doesn’t deserve that.
Yeah we should just pretend it didn’t happen… oh wait, isnt that what people are always ripping bud selig for doing?
get real.
Jeff: I should have no problem with two tickets if I have the date free
Let me know when it’s on craigslist and I’ll see if I can afford that without my parents caring too much…
And I feel honored about the name
Just don’t make her middle name Anne. It’s ubiquitous.
Tyler -
it could have been done in a MUCH better, and more responsible way. Then the report could be viewed as the impetus for much needed positive change for the sport.
instead, its a wild circus and there are holes a plenty in the thing.
Very well said, Pete. I agree completely.
I said the same thing last month –> http://mvn.com/mlb-yankees/200.....the-point/
All the names just caused everyone to miss the whole point of the investigation.
I think this has been tried before but I never heard what happened. We need a union or association of baseball fans for that matter all of sports. We should be represented and consulted. Personally, I am fed up with owners and players and want to see sports not entertainment. I get the feeling that a lot of us on this blog feel the same way. We are the ones paying the prices and watching the games. I hate feeling powerless at times like this. I am so very tired of seeing a game I love mucked up. The lack of ethics and lack of care infuriate me. Does anyone know of such a movement or fan association?
Karse,
I don’t see why people think Andy might have to lie to Congress or rat out Roger. First of all, there’s a good chance Roger’s clean (see last thread for links to articles from Toronto and Houston/Yankee personnel saying he was clean, plus the often-discussed credibility problems/coercion issues with McNamee).
But additionally, even if Roger did steroids, Andy probably doesn’t know anything about it. McNamee, the in the Heyman article, said he believed that Roger didn’t know about Andy’s negligible HGH use. Stands to reason, therefore, that even if Roger was doing steroids, Andy wouldn’t know about it.
Larry: I don’t, but when you find one, please let me know.
not to pessimistic or anything but Larry, something like that doesn’t exist. At least nothing that would actually be consulted and respected.
Larry,
The only movement fans can make is to stop watching and buying MLB stuff. MLB is raking in record revenues…. not exactly the best way to voice displeasure.
whoa,
I disagree. Congress today should not care about the past. They should be focused on ensuring that baseball remains clean now and in the future. Selig should have released a statement taking responsibility, along with the owners, executives, and players for baseball’s past drug problems and outlined a comprehensive testing system. This would have satisfied Congress, who have much larger problems to worry about. Baseball should be looking forward, not digging up the past.
Yea Clare your right, it was more just a general idea. Not that that exact situation will occur, but situations like that. Andy was an example. I’m sure, especially if Roger is proven to be clean, that there still are a lot lies and testimonies and all that junk still to come…and there will be people who are put into unfair situations.
Bob,
it looks like the best way for Selig and MLB as a whole to make sure they dont take any blame is….. to blame the whole thing on Roger Clemens and the Yankees.
Boston Dave,
Exactly. Selig hired a pro-ownership investigator to lay the blame on the players. The Mitchell farce weakens the players’ bargaining power and deflects blame from Selig and the owners. Everyone in baseball is complicit – from Selig to the owners to executives to players to staff to journalists.
I would love to file a class action suit on behalf of fans again MLB & Selig and the union for screwing up the game, charging ridiculous prices, having a blind eye to the PED’s and heck lets throw Phillips in there for hiring Radomski in the first place. FAN POWER!
Bob,
And until Roger fought back (though he also needs to “win”), you could say the plan was genius and working like a charm.
You are right Dave,
But there has to be a better way than simply bemoaning what is going on. Yes we could call for a fan boycott or some such. I just am so tired as a fan of being the effect of MLB. There has to be something we can do besides writing in the blog. Maybe we can create a petition to remove Selig. Who knows… there must be something.
Karse,
You’re right it’s a bad situation. I think it’s much worse now that Congress wants depositions prior to the hearing.
Depos are painful. People who aren’t lawyers find them very stressful. And it’s a lot of work to prepare for them. You can spend days or even weeks preparing for a crucial deposition. Especially in a high profile situation like this one. I’ve taken over a thousand depositions, and in almost all of them the witness lied to me. And no one ever was prosecuted for perjury. However this is different.
Congress is clearly trying to set perjury traps for the players. They want to confront them on live television with conflicting testimony, either from their own deposition or another player’s.
And, as often asked in the last thread, why only call Yankee players to the hearing? I think the Yankees need to step up, hire some lobbyists, and try to make this something other than a Yankee witch humt.
Clare,
Can anyone decline the deposition? Is it ‘optional but encouraged’? Or would Roger, Andy, and Chuck be required (or go to jail) to participate?
Well put and many thanks for illustrating one of the real problems baseball faces…..I wish sportswriters would do more to the discuss the joke of a commissioner that baseball has at the helm. I agree fully let’s move on and put some real testing policies in place to insure the integrity of the game. Let’s face it guys ALL sports have this problem and going on a witch hunt will never solve it. The fact is that all they are trying to do is distract us and find names to drag through the mud with all these stories, instead of getting to the root of the problem (poor testing and enforcement) and how to solve it.
A true commission of the sport that had its best interest at heart would have spent the $20 M on finding ways to fix the problem for future generations and make baseball a model for other sports to follow rather than finding a way to destroy the players and MLB’s reputation even further with shoddy detective work. (FYI I do think a good number of players were and are still using PE drugs)
Clare,
problem is… only Andy is a current Yankee. If they were only going after 3 current Yankees, they might actually have an interest in crying foul. But with Andy unlikely to have much involvement after the deposition, its not as big a deal to them as an org.
Hank yaps about everything though… why cant he scream about this??
Ed,
from an MLB owners perspective though, Selig is great. He is typically a pawn for them and they are making a boatload of money. The players are being put on the defensive here, though they’re still making a ton of money. The fans are showing up in record #s and buying everything they can get their hands on. Until something breaks, nobody wants to try and fix it.
Here is an organization that may be what you are looking for..it’s from 2002.
http://www.eworldwire.com/head.....merica.htm
Once and for all, the pinata Commissioner should be asked to resign forthwith, give him a token pension and be rid of him. Appoint a caretaker Commissioner and immediately announce that any player tested positive one time through a random procedure will be banned from the game for life and his contract voided. Too tough ? Well, nothing else has worked. The ice cream or bandaid approach is taken as a joke courtesy of Selig’s lack of spine.
The latest Selig soft touch move calls for checking all mail and personnel entering clubhouses. Not having any street smarts demonstrates that Selig never gave it a thought that delivering illegal substances to a player’s residence and having them administered on the premesis can in fact happen and probably has. Players no longer have products easily seen in front of their lockers ala Jose Canseco.
Boston Dave,
If you’re subpoena’d, or if you’re a party to a lawsuit, depositions are not optional. And you can be held in contempt for ignoring a subpoena.
I understand that initially Congress “invited” the players to participate in the hearing, however Congress has subpoena power. I assume that if they’re serious about getting depositions, they’ll issue subpoenas.
Thanks GB7 but they seem to have faded away.
I certainly do not understand Waxman and his committee. We have a country that is suffering on so many different fronts and he wants to depose ballplayers. He should depose the President. This is not a smart way to run a country, perhaps we should test him for drugs although if congress were on PED’s it might be an improvement from the stupor they are usually in.
Rory,
I would start with exploring the Olympic drug testing policy and adding something similar. It’s a joke that MLB and the NFL say they’re doing all they can when someone else (the Olympics) has a much more comprehensive testing program in place.
And even the “random” tests now arent random at all. There is usually advance notice of some sort. They need to change that.
“tonyb-
you sound objective yet you think clemens probably did it. have you read the novitsky/parrella interrogation in the defamation lawsuit? if you have, why would you think that mcnamee is telling the truth about clemens? ”
Randy l,
I have not read the interrogation, but on your recommendation, I will. I am just very skeptical of both sides in this mess and from Rogers perspective, I can imagine how tempting it would be to run a cycle of PEDS in the dog days of summer when your body is breaking down. I am not accusing him, just acknowledging the possibility that it happened.
Since there is no evidence proving Clemens did or did not take PEDS, I believe this skepticism is justified.
In essence, I’m taking the Inspector Clousseau stance (and that’s Peter Sellers, not Steve Martin) i.e. I suspect everyone, and I suspect no one.
Clare,
I assume lawyers may be present for them? Or is that a bad assumption?
So… who is up for protesting outside of the Congressional Hearings?
Pete -
I agree.
Clare -
I was about to post the same thing as you regarding the assumptions that Andy will have to lie for Roger. I don’t know why people think that.
New topic:
Any other records or milestones on the horizon this season?
tonyb,
thats fair
Pete,
Couldn’t agree more… people around me at my work know I am a baseball nut and ask me all the time, “What do you think about blah story of the day steroids blah.” My answer has become, “I don’t know, I just really wanna see someone play baseball already, because all of this stuff is boring me.”
PED use is wrong, we know. But we need to move ahead, use the plans that there are in place and get on with the game.
Mitchell apparently consumed at least 20 million of MLB money. That’s about equal to what the Yankees paid Pavano in 2006-2007. At least the Yanks got 2 decent starts out of it.
Congrats George Mitchell; finally someone in baseball who’s a bigger ripoff than Pavano.
Boston Dave
They are changing it, there isn’t advance notice anymore. They will come in looking for samples. I heard/read, the test “giver” (for lack of a proper term) will follow the player around until they are prepared to give a sample.
Doreen,
Does the potential record contract for Johan Santana count?
j/k
Dave, the testing is no longer preceded by a warning. They will just start showing up. The teams will provide a location in both clubhouses for the testing. Rule was put into affect this week.
This is a crack up. Look up at the google ads, the appear based on what is said on the website. Well we’ve said the word steriods enough that an ad popped up.
Legal steroids buy now
See Results in 7 days or money back dekka, winstrall, dianobol, buy now
george,
at least…. i heard anywhere between 20 and 60. considering they interviewed a couple guys… thats alot of dough. maybe when Mitchell hugged McNamee (after he gave in and gave em Roger), he slipped some of that dough into his back pocket.
It looks like Sea is moving closer to a Bedard deal. If this deal goes through, I say Santana will go to the Angels.
Dave, yes, lawyers can be present at this round of hearings in February.
GB and Jennifer,
good to hear. now they just need to check for HGH (and make sure nobody is using the Whizzinator) and they’re off to a good start.
It makes me think that this report is even more bs. Mitchell hugging him. Like thanks for the ace. what an ahole.
Tired of Clemens,
That seems like a very possible scenario.
The Angels have the pieces and they are competing with the Dodgers for fans so they have some additional incentive.
Google= the font of all possibility.
Seriously. Their motto is “don’t be evil”
I wanted to repost a cleaned up version of my post on the last thread about Mitchell’s lie to the NY Times:
From a Q&A on the New York Times Bats Blog:
NYT: Was there any possible corroboration of what Brian McNamee said about Roger Clemens?
MITCHELL: Yes, it’s in the report. He told Kirk Radomski contemporaneously to these events what he was doing. So it’s a contemporaneous statement made to another person and each of them told us that separately not knowing what about the other person’s statement.
This is contradicted both by the report itself and by McNamee’s lawyer.
The report says, “McNamee never explicitly told Radomski that either Clemens or Pettitte was using steroids or human growth hormone.†Mitchell report, p. 222.
McNamee’s lawyer said there’s no corroboration as well:
“Ward said that during the time McNamee injected Clemens with the banned substances, he did not tell anyone about it.” http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12.....emens.html
Tired,
Baltimore also looks like they’re trading Roberts to the Cubs. I would be shocked if Bedard doesn’t go after he laughed when Baltimore approached him about an extension. Seattle is making a very fair offer (if its being reported correctly).
At least Tampa Bay might not be in last place.
Clare,
you can post that one ten times and I’ll read it every time.
nice work!
Boston Dave,
Also, take a look at the testing procedures in Cycling. They have a very comprehensive test plan (cyclists basically invented doping) and store blood samples for years after they are taken so that they can be tested in the future using newer medical technology – The dopers are always going to be ahead of the testers, and this is a good way to mitigate that.
However, this has not stopped the sport from becoming an absolute joke. Did you see how many riders were thrown out of the Tour this year? Whole teams were bounced. T-Mobile pulled out from sponsoring cycling entirely. Riders were caught with freezers full of blood. After one of the most inspirational rides I’ve ever seen by Floyd Landis, he is busted and thrown out for having synthetic testosterone in his system. As a fan, I was crushed.
The race was ruined, but the sport had the guts to do what was necessary and take a very hard stand against doping. It really hurt the entire sport in the short run, millions of dollars were lost, but the hope was that the integrity of the sport will be secured in the future.
When money and prestige is on the line, many people will cheat – it is human nature. This will forever be a part of sport because it is part of the human condition.
The Angels getting Santana would be almost as bad as the Red Sox getting him. That would be a nasty rotation. They will pay out a ton of money at the end of the year, though with Guerrero, Rodriguez and Lackey all free agents.
Boston over under 60 wins. They had 69 last year with getting 13 of them.
Excellent post tonyb.
No excuse for MLB (and the NFL) to do this.
Thanks Dave. I’ll give it a rest now.
Oops let me make that clearer.
Boston-
Over under 60 wins for Baltimore, they had 69 with Bedard getting 13 of them.
Green Beret,
dont forget how good Seattle would be with Bedard. Both teams would be trouble. And yes, its still better than Johan in Fenway.
It might make it more likely that K-Rod hits F/A and ends up as the future NYY closer though
Just a thought,if Andy wouldn’t lie for himself,why would he lie for Roger?
Jennifer,
Thats tough. With Tampa prob better, NY, Boston, and a pretty good Toronto team, I can see them right around 60 wins.
You a Vegas oddsmaker?
catya- Good point, I am hoping that Roger is telling the truth. Because if Andy gets up and says yes Roger did roids. Watch out, it will only get worse from here on out.
catya,
he might not. point is, its unlikely he’d need to lie for Roger since he probably doesnt know anything.
In regards to the possibility that Andy might not know about Roger using steroids (IF he did), Jack Curry wrote this in his blog on Dec, 16th:
“I approached Pettitte at Yankee Stadium and told him I needed to ask him some questions about an off-the-field issue. As always, he was cordial. I asked Pettitte if he had ever heard of Radomski. He said that he had not.
A day later, I saw Pettitte again and we revisited the topic of McNamee and Radomski. Pettitte seemed bewildered that McNamee was being connected with someone who had distributed steroids. And, the thing is, I don’t think Pettitte was acting. Is that possible? Could Pettitte have known nothing about McNamee’s alleged steroid injections of Clemens? “
Why Boston yes I am.
1000-1 odds that they get 65 wins.
Just kidding.
Jennifer -
if andy says he did roids, he’s going on the 60day DL with a black eye and some broken ribs.
Not sure Rodriguez would agree to set up for two years for Rivera. Of course, Rivera could put 3 straight seasons like he had in 2004 when he ripped off 53 saves.
Say it ain’t
Very interesting. I really hope Andy doesn’t know anything and that he isn’t being put in a really bad situation.
Green Beret –
I can think of $70M reasons over 5 seasons why he might consider it. but yes, he may not.
I can see Roger turning into DeNiro’s version of Al Capone if Andy says Roger did steroids, haha.
GB – it is probably unlikely they’d pay KRod also…
but I did hear somewhere, and this seems unlikely too, that Mariano has actually added a little velocity.
I think we should have every player with significant MLB service time in the steroid era appear in a line in Congress. Then one by one, Congressmen ask, “did you do any PED’s?”
To me, it’s not fair to select a few, since we KNOW so many dealers are not caught yet. Many players may lie, but they still have to face perjury if any evidence surfaces in the future.
If enough MLB players say yes, we have some idea about how widespread steroid usage was, and also about how to treat Clemens in context.
Clare if I ever have a legal problem, can I get yah on retainer?
Seriously, excellent work
Jennifer,
What are the odds on each of the parties getting squashed after the smoke clears?
Mitchell
Selig
Clemens
McNamee
Feds
Congress
In regards to Pettitte’s use of HGH, according to one of the stories linked earlier, Pettitte received the shots at the Tampa complex about june of 2002 when he was rehabbing. Unclear as to who administered the shots, so somebody onthe team staff knew about them.
abe,
that would be great
Dave, I saw that, too. On a couple of games, Murcer and Girardi mentioned he was hitting 96 and 97.
Great work Clare!
GB, that was in the Mitchell report and Andy said that in his statement that he took it while he was rehabbing. McNamee said that Andy called him while he was in Tampa and asked if he could come there and give him shots of HGH, and McNamee said that he did administered the shot 2-4 times. Andy said in his statement that he took it twice while he was rehabbing. So both stories completely check out with each other.
But if Andy says Roger always spoke negatively about roids that adds credence to Rogers claim doesn’t it?
Roger always held the Yankees in high esteem and served the Yankees well. The majority of baseball fans and media hates ANYTHING Yankees.I don’t expect them to be objective, because of that I can’t allow them to shape my opinnion of Roger.The last thing I want is some Yankee haters telling me anything about the Yankees.
All they need to do is send a team of congessional staffs to each training site in February, get everybody sworn in and teake depositions from every player, coach, staff member and clubhouse people…anybody that works for that team.
take*
In April, they could get the clubhouse people from the home stadiums.
has anyone documented/released whether Mitchell is doing this pro bono, or are he, or his firm or people, charging fees?
i tried finding info on this, couldn’t find a report that explained this detail.
Say It Ain’t So, that should clear Pettitte if the club knew about it and oked it.
Pete’s post is perfect, on the money dead on.
I guess that’s why he’s the pro that gets paid to do this huh? lol
GB, I’m not sure that the Yankees did know about it and okay it. It’s entirely possible, but Andy made the phone call and if McNamee was allegedly giving Clemens his shots in his apartment, then it wouldn’t be out of the question to assume that Andy got his pair of shots at his home in Tampa.
Mitchell’s company was paid over 20 million dollars for the report that was basically given to him by the government for nothing.
if pettitte just denied HGH use then clemens wouldnt be in such a hole. thanks a lot pettitte, good “pal”
Say It Aint SDo, you may be right, but the Houston doctor said Tampa complex, but, who knows. Would be nice to find out, because it means somebody said ok if it was done at the complex.
Syracuse lost
Stupid inability to shoot.
However, Celtics lost as well.
RIGHT ON PETE ! ONCE THE SEASON GETS UNDERWAY EVERYONE WILL FORGET THIS NONSENSE ON SOME LEVEL
“The Angels have the pieces and they are competing with the Dodgers for fans so they have some additional incentive.”
The Angels also currently have 6 starting pitchers and need all of the offense they have. If they wouldn’t blow up their farm for Miggy Cabrera (who would have provided the pop they yearn for at a position of need), why would they do it for a starting pitcher?
Then I think it’s fair to question whether or not Selig’s investigation was done right, but not whether or not Selig should have had an investigation, because he had no choice. That was my point in raising the cause and effect issue.
Since you raised the issue, I thought that the Budget deal of 1992, in which Bush I agreed to raise taxes in order to begin to reduce the soaring deficits and debt that were run up in the ’80s was a profile in courage.
IMO, if there had been a Radomsky who was familiar with the Sox clubhouse, I believe that Mitchell would have questioned him, but I think it would be more than fair for a member of Congress or the press to ask him if he talked to Paxton Crawford, and if not, why not.
welcome back whozat
they would presumably be training jered weaver and maybe ervin santana.
wait a sec… the Sox AND the Yanks have 6 starting pitchers too.. so they wouldnt be interested either.
good call.
trading*
GB, in the NY Times Kepner said that Andy will have a day for the media before spring training starts so that they can basically rip him apart and ask any question that they want, I’m sure as long as it stays on the topic of himself and doesn’t go into any Clemens questions. Kepner said the day is undecided because Andy’s been busy taking care of his son after he was seriously hurt in a four-wheeler accident.
# Bob from NJ January 9th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
whoa,
I disagree. Congress today should not care about the past. They should be focused on ensuring that baseball remains clean now and in the future. Selig should have released a statement taking responsibility, along with the owners, executives, and players for baseball’s past drug problems and outlined a comprehensive testing system. This would have satisfied Congress, who have much larger problems to worry about. Baseball should be looking forward, not digging up the past.
I’m not sure that such a move would have satisfied Congress, but I think that’s a reasonable point of view, even if I disagree with it.
I think that trying to devise a process to keep MLB clean in the future is tough to do without knowing how the problem unfolded in the past.
I didn’t finish my sentence, haha. I was going to say that I’m sure a reporter will ask that same question about where he got the shots.
Bob from NJ:
Those who ignore history are condemned to repeat it.
It just does not seem to end for Andy. Now his father’s back in the hospital.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01.....ref=sports
Oh man, can’t Andy catch a break?
whoa,
I get your point now re: cause and effect. And I agree that we SHOULD question the methodology that was used to generate the report. This is what makes the whole thing so pathetic — because Selig had to do this, and chose a method guaranteed to generate controversy, there is no way to “move forward” when people like Clemens want to clean up what was said about their past.
Good point about the Sox clubhouse (I assume that Crawford is their guy).. I did not read the Michell Report but I wonder if it states explicitly that they talked to other clubhouse folks, or were unable to talk to them, etc.
They spent a heck of a long time on this thing to not have had more than just McNamee and Radomski as their major sources.
Pete,
we may not hit 1000 today but 850 isnt out of the question… we rock!
I think maybe Pettitte took in more then just twice.He might have said that to cover his @$$.
Think about it if Andy Pettitte was never implicated in this HGH thing we all would be all saying “Clemens is a cheater and a True Yankee like Pettitte never needed HGH to win”.That’s why I think Pettitte the more bad guy because he is a Yankee.He should have just retired.
Here’s the list of Congresspeople who sit on the Committee running the hearings:
http://www.congressmerge.com/o.....8;plusfour=
Say It Aint So…
It would clear up a few things. I’m sure that the Tampa Yankees trainer or doctor (if available) would have know had it occurred on site. At least there’s corroborating statements as to why Pettitte took the shots in the first place. Wonder if he just forgot about a couple of shots from five years ago or what? That’s fairly easy to do. I’ve had so many shots for different things, that I have to look at my shot records to know what and when.
I couldn’t agree with you more,Pete. Why not just come up with good idea how to fix this problem? I for one could care less about this as long as they play hard.
McLovin -
here’s your word of the day:
research
do some.
apx 40 congress-people need to devote their time to this?
awful
McLovin, you need to do some serious research. I don’t know why you have all this Pettitte hate.
Rebecca –
hate is a common trait in trolls
Good Evening to all
Well I guess my wife and I wont be adopting Miguel Cairo afterall………Glad to see Miggy getting another contract especially on the Major League Level.
another interesting article on the SWB Yanks blog –
“Kevin Goldstein’s (Baseball Prospectus) ranking of Sox and Yanks pitching prospects:
1. Clay Buchholz
2. Joba Chamberlain
3. Phil Hughes
4. Jon Lester
5. Ian Kennedy
6. Alan Horne
7. Justin Masterson
8. Michael Bowden”
http://emedia.thetimes-tribune.....fault.aspx
McLovin is a great handle, though McLovin doesn’t know he/she is talking about.
Dave, I take it that those are only starters? Does he have a separate ranking for relief pitchers?
Boston Dave
I was just reading that on the SWB site.
GB – its more of a Q+A but the fans keep asking him to rank. check it out – just hit cancel if/when the login prompt comes up.
Rebecca,
I don’t think I explained myself properly. I was not advocating burying the past or ignoring it. Absolutely MLB should have looked into how the players were obtaining PEDs.
The Mitchell Report, though, provided no new evidence or testimony of any kind to enlighten us on this subject. The Feds handed Radomski and McNamee to Mitchell on a silver platter, without them, he would have had nothing. MLB did not need to pay a former part owner/director 20 million bucks to find that out. Players should not have been named based on one person’s word (Clemens). This was a witch hunt designed to insulate Selig and the owners from damage and lay the blame at the feet of the players.
MLB should have let the Feds do the investigating and spent that money on devising a comprehensive testing program with the best available science. They should be investing in research to find a urine test to detect HGH.
The players named in the Report are not even the tip of the iceberg. It serves no purpose other than to draw our attention away from the real problem: that the commissioner, the owners, the players, the staff, and the baseball journalists all benefited by either actively or passively allowing this PED epidemic to spread. He should have apologized on behalf of everyone and launched a committee to make recommendations for the future.
“That’s why I think Pettitte the more bad guy because he is a Yankee.He should have just retired.”
huh?
Good info, Dave. Thanks. People had better startwatching out for Mike Dunn. He’ll be in Tampa this year, but, it’s only going to be his 2nd full year of pitching. He was impressive last season in Charleston. Good strikeouts to walks…about 3:1 for a lefty in his first year of pitching.
Bob from NJ:
Ah, that reads much better
In the lighter side of the news:
A Polish man got the shock of his life when he visited a brothel and spotted his wife among the establishment’s employees. “What are you doing here?”
http://www.reuters.com/article.....109?rpc=64
if the thread’s gonna get killed for the night, i think that comment should be the one to do it
Stewart’s on
BD-
Pretty funny.
So who will be pinch hitting tonight?
We’ll find out soon enough!
brosius was on roids too
So was Wade Boggs
Pete, no kidding. I was watching NY1, they asked Goose about the whole steroid thing. They showed that long clip BEFORE reporting on his HOF entry. For crying out loud, show some respect!
i agree with you tony womack
Rebecca-
Are you in the on deck circle putting some pinetar on your bat & adjusting your batting gloves?
Buddy:
Nah, I’m more like a closer
(which can be further evidenced by my ability to kill a thread)
Let’s see, I will guess that Griffey hits his 600th on May 10. And I still predict that the Reds will finish in the top 3 of the NL Central. It’s up for grabs.
I completely agree with Pete’s post. Sadly, positive aspects of baseball and nice stories are not what most people want. There’s too much demand for the negative these days, and I think that is a shame.
Well, you are pretty good at it.
Rebecca-
Did you get a Designated Hebrew shirt from Rob Blomberg? How did the interview go?
Buddy: You’ve never seen my fastball
Though according to the Nintendo Wii, I can pitch an 86 mph slider.
(Though it’d never make it to home plate)
Buddy: The interview was really interesting, you should take a listen on the archive.
I need to get myself a t shirt!
I plan on it, the shirt is kinda cool.
okay, between the two of us we can keep this going till whomever decides to pinch hit!
So.
Umm.
Did you hear fernando tatis signed with the Mets?
I am having the time of my life seeing a slime like Roger Clemens finally get his comeuppance. Just like Pete Rose did in 1989. Bring it on Congress!
Now who’s that guy that signed with the mets
Tatis is sure to put them over the top, though he did hit 2 Grand Slams in one inning. Minaya must be chomping at the bit to get Johan, he may as well go all in at this point, he may lose his job along with Willie if they don’t at least go to the NLCS.
I mean, have they signed even one pitcher? Made one significant roster change?
Hilarious Reuters post, Boston Dave! Kind of a Gift of the Magi in reverse
And Clare, great posts!
The Mets are going after Blanton, but will have to overpay, which is why they are hesitant.
…and to think everyone thought the Mets were the better team going into 2007…
i’ve a legal – & ethical i guess – question. the Federal prosecutors are letting a suspected drug distributor – McNamee – avoid going to jail for distribution of steroids, and/or amphetamines. In exchange, he has to offer testimony against Roger Clemens.
The context is that the prosecutor do not have enough evidence to pursue prosecution of Clemens.
But now the Justice Department gets to put Clemens on what amounts to a public trial. It seems that it’s putting a private citizen into an extra-judicial process; a police state move. Shouldn’t they be prosecuting the distributor they have nailed, and kept Clemens’ private to their investigations, unless they were planning to bring it to a grand jury?
isn’t this, or shouldn’t this be, a blatant violation of due process?
What’s worse, now Clemens is being investigated by another branch of the Federal government – Congress. what is the legal basis?
I love that the Mets believe Blanton is the second coming of Cy Young all of a sudden. He is an innings-eater who has progressed decently over the past three years. He isn’t going to get much better than he was last year and probably is due for a fall back year.
The Mets are looking quite desperate. I live in SF & can’t imagine being an A’s fan, although they have been fielding pretty good teams up until now. Basically they won’t be competitive until 2011, if that, when the new park opens.
Good point Buddy..
The Bay Area is going to be a baseball wasteland the next half decade. And with Bonds gone, I guess the stadium – which is great – will be SF’s only selling point. (Hopefully you catch Lincecum or Cain whenever you head to the ballpark)
Mitchell is nothing but a politician who has been a lobbyist for the tobacco industry, among other things. A politician’s business is to trade favors. That’s all he’s done. For instance, ESPN employees outed Paul Byrd miraculously–thereby allowing him to avoid the dramatic unveiling of the actual “report.” Byrd does not deny shooting up throughout the 2007 post season. The timing of his outing was such that he skated and allowed Mitchell to focus on 2 Yankees. The media picked it up 24/7, otherwise it wouldn’t have been a story. They didn’t just reflect it, they made it unspeakably false and ugly. And they let Paul Byrd and the Cleveland Indians go untouched. Cleveland media doesn’t pound Paul Byrd 24/7. No media does. People forget they were swamped with media crawling over their clubhouse on the deciding night of a post season game. I’ve seen no headlines calling for Paul Byrd to go to Congress to testify about his unlicensed dentist, his 1000 units of hgh, 100 syringes, and goods he kept in team fridges.
ortiz is on HGH! BET ON IT
Pete – People have known now for years that PEDs were a serious issue that needed to be resolved. The congressional hearings with Mark, Sammy, et al, certainly drove home that it was not just a small sports story. And while since then, the testing and punishment process was made stricker, it was just a drop in the bucket compared to what could have been done to try and rid the sport of PEDs.
What new has come from the Mitchell Report? Nothing really. We got some names, but we knew that they, and many, many others existed, just not exactlty who they were
What should be well known, has been expressed here, and expressed many other blogs, is that Selig used to report as a smokescreen to draw attention away from his own incompetance in addressing this issue long, long ago. The ‘big names’ are simply a distraction for the press to play with, as we are seeing know.
What bothers me is that the press, the professionals, the people who make a living writing about the game, have not seriously called out Selig, and Fehr. Why should Buds ‘criminal behavior’ be all over the blogosophere, but get so little atttension from professional writers? Why is the press sitting by and letting Andy, Roger, Bonds and everyone else take all the heat for a systemic problem that was Buds job to deal with. Why are so few calling for Buds resignation? Why is no one holding him accountable? Why is there not more discussion about the ‘Mitchell Witch hunt’ offering very little in terms of real progress in addressing this issue.
Pete – Don’t you think your profession has some obligation to be straight here and call Bud out? Maybe it won’t sell as many papers of generate as many hits, but the fans and the players deserve to hear Bud, and Fehr, and the owners and baseball establishment get their deserved share of the blame.
I think the press has been terribly negligent in their reporting of this issue.
http://us.cnn.com/2008/TECH/01.....index.html
Okay , the idea of Curt Schilling as a gamer… *shudder*
LOL @ Rebecca
I concur.
Does anyone else think it is ridiculous that only Yankees are being singled out in this congressional hearing? I understand Clemens being asked to testify, but why Pettitte or Knoblauch? Pettitte only did it a couple of times and he admitted it. What more do they want from him? And out of all the other players named in the Mitchell Report, what makes Chuck Knoblauch so distinguishable? It’s bad enough the bulk of the Mitchell Report was biased against the Yankees. I guess like Mitchell, most members of Congress are also Yankee haters.
Seems like ‘Old Yanks Fan’ is one of very few posters here who understands what has happened here. Selig was put on notice to get things cleaned up or Congress will revoke the anti trust exclusion.
I’m also amazed by those who want to sweep it under the rug, and by so many of you who condone lying.
Please watch the hearings.
Pete i haven’t been here long but this is definitely the best post i’ve seen on here
it happened, everybody knows it happened, getting a red sox executive to talk to the Yankees clubhouse guy doesn’t prove anything……… get over it and play ball.
Although it pains me to say it, Peter and the media in general are merely doing their job. They shouldn’t be scrutinized for as much…its what they get paid to do.
It is ridiculous that Congress would change the date to the day before pitchers and catchers report to Spring Training. How silly is that?
Does Pettitte have to go? Would he do better to go or does it really matter at this point? He admitted it. If I am Pettitte, I focus solely on baseball and my family and that is it. Screw Congress, screw Mitchell, and above all, screw the Boston Red Sox.
Mitchell Report = Counterproductive waste of time and money. Selig should resign.
good column, Pete. It would be nice if more voices started saying the same thing.
On another note, I wonder if Andy could say that the date is too close to spring training, and he needs a different date which does not interfere with his profession.
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