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	<title>Comments on: Pinch hitting: Scott Proctor&#8217;s Arm</title>
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	<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/09/pinch-hitting-scott-proctors-arm/</link>
	<description>A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 16:14:04 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: kenxe</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/09/pinch-hitting-scott-proctors-arm/comment-page-2/#comment-240651</link>
		<dc:creator>kenxe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 03:35:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/09/pinch-hitting-scott-proctors-arm/#comment-240651</guid>
		<description>Give the kids a chance! What do we have to lose, we lost last year? We have Wang, Pettitte as a base, when we add Joba and Hughes I think the pitching will be fine. You also have Kennedy/Mussina, I think Kennedy will surprise some people I have seen most of these guys (multi times) they are better than you think they are. So, I think...being an old pitcher myself...Joba can be the ace with Hughes pushing him hard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Give the kids a chance! What do we have to lose, we lost last year? We have Wang, Pettitte as a base, when we add Joba and Hughes I think the pitching will be fine. You also have Kennedy/Mussina, I think Kennedy will surprise some people I have seen most of these guys (multi times) they are better than you think they are. So, I think&#8230;being an old pitcher myself&#8230;Joba can be the ace with Hughes pushing him hard.</p>
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		<title>By: Corey</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/09/pinch-hitting-scott-proctors-arm/comment-page-2/#comment-240488</link>
		<dc:creator>Corey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 01:02:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/09/pinch-hitting-scott-proctors-arm/#comment-240488</guid>
		<description>dont forget pettite&#039;s era is inflated due to his last start.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dont forget pettite&#8217;s era is inflated due to his last start.</p>
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		<title>By: Oscar Gamble</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/09/pinch-hitting-scott-proctors-arm/comment-page-2/#comment-240446</link>
		<dc:creator>Oscar Gamble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2008 23:52:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/09/pinch-hitting-scott-proctors-arm/#comment-240446</guid>
		<description>Would Posada have done as well if he had signed a contract in the Spring that would take him through the next few years?  I don&#039;t know, but I know he is a proud man and I know that he took the failure to offer him in the spring as a sign that he needed to step up and earn it and he did.  I also know he could have gotten the same deal elsewhere, so if he had not been offered, he would have been gone.  Couldn&#039;t possibly let that happen with AROD leaving.  Mo wouldn&#039;t have signed at 2 years plus a club option, so you can&#039;t consider whether he should have been signed to that deal instead.  He wouldn&#039;t have, so it is a non-issue.  The question is are you better off with him and without $15 mil or without him and with an extra $15 mil.  Steinbrenner(s)again showed how willing he is to invest in this team to make it the best team he can put on the field for us fans.  AROD will be a huge bargain by the end of his contract.  How long do you think it will be before a player who is not even the best at his position will be making $30 mil/year?  Manny and Giambi make over $20 mil/yr now.  5 yrs from now if baseball is still doing as well as it is right now, more than 1 player at a single position will be making $30 mil/yr.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Would Posada have done as well if he had signed a contract in the Spring that would take him through the next few years?  I don&#8217;t know, but I know he is a proud man and I know that he took the failure to offer him in the spring as a sign that he needed to step up and earn it and he did.  I also know he could have gotten the same deal elsewhere, so if he had not been offered, he would have been gone.  Couldn&#8217;t possibly let that happen with AROD leaving.  Mo wouldn&#8217;t have signed at 2 years plus a club option, so you can&#8217;t consider whether he should have been signed to that deal instead.  He wouldn&#8217;t have, so it is a non-issue.  The question is are you better off with him and without $15 mil or without him and with an extra $15 mil.  Steinbrenner(s)again showed how willing he is to invest in this team to make it the best team he can put on the field for us fans.  AROD will be a huge bargain by the end of his contract.  How long do you think it will be before a player who is not even the best at his position will be making $30 mil/year?  Manny and Giambi make over $20 mil/yr now.  5 yrs from now if baseball is still doing as well as it is right now, more than 1 player at a single position will be making $30 mil/yr.</p>
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		<title>By: TampaBayBomber</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/09/pinch-hitting-scott-proctors-arm/comment-page-2/#comment-240216</link>
		<dc:creator>TampaBayBomber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2008 20:27:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/09/pinch-hitting-scott-proctors-arm/#comment-240216</guid>
		<description>Amen, Dooty. Yours was the initial reaction I had to that &quot;all-star lineup that hasn&#039;t won a playoff series since 2004&quot; comment, and as I scrolled through the comments, I was formulating a similar response in my head until I read yours.

The only other point I&#039;d like to add is that the &quot;all-star lineup&quot; has GOTTEN THEM IN THE PLAYOFFS EVERY SEASON in the current era. And in recent years, the &quot;all-star lineup&quot; has gotten them there despite a serious lack of depth in the pitching staff. Once you get in the playoffs, you&#039;re dealing with short series in which anything can happen, and will if your pitching sucks. It&#039;s not A-Rod or Abreu that&#039;s been the problem, it&#039;s the Johnsons, Pavanos and Wrights.

That&#039;s why developing the pitching is such a key.  Hitters can always be bought or traded for; honestly, I can&#039;t remember the last team that had an incredible pitching staff but missed the playoffs for a lack of bats.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amen, Dooty. Yours was the initial reaction I had to that &#8220;all-star lineup that hasn&#8217;t won a playoff series since 2004&#8243; comment, and as I scrolled through the comments, I was formulating a similar response in my head until I read yours.</p>
<p>The only other point I&#8217;d like to add is that the &#8220;all-star lineup&#8221; has GOTTEN THEM IN THE PLAYOFFS EVERY SEASON in the current era. And in recent years, the &#8220;all-star lineup&#8221; has gotten them there despite a serious lack of depth in the pitching staff. Once you get in the playoffs, you&#8217;re dealing with short series in which anything can happen, and will if your pitching sucks. It&#8217;s not A-Rod or Abreu that&#8217;s been the problem, it&#8217;s the Johnsons, Pavanos and Wrights.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s why developing the pitching is such a key.  Hitters can always be bought or traded for; honestly, I can&#8217;t remember the last team that had an incredible pitching staff but missed the playoffs for a lack of bats.</p>
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		<title>By: dooty</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/09/pinch-hitting-scott-proctors-arm/comment-page-2/#comment-240162</link>
		<dc:creator>dooty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2008 19:02:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/09/pinch-hitting-scott-proctors-arm/#comment-240162</guid>
		<description>And to finish this thought off I will mention this one again:

&quot;the Yankees wouldâ€™ve had more money to sign cheaper, quality players to stray away from the all-star lineup concept which has failed to win playoff games since 2004.&quot;

Ok so why don&#039;t you list for me exactly which non-allstar the yankees should have signed rather than the guys that they did sign or trade for.  Take your pick.  Instead of the all-star lineup of Abreu/Damon/ARod/Cano/Sheffield/Posada/Jeter/Matsui/Giambi, who should the Yankees have signed?  Hmm?  Remember, it can&#039;t be an all-star since you believe that the all-star lineup concept is the reason for the lack of titles in recent years.  That means no Vlad (instead of Sheffield in 2003), no Rowand, no crazy made up trade for Pujols, etc.  All-stars are not wecloem here since most of them probably will choke in the playoffs.  Give me the names of the players that are better equipped for the playoffs but also reasonably equipped for getting the Yankees to the playoffs over 162 games despite the shortcomings of a below average pitching staff.


So the bottom line is, I am more than happy with the current Yankee offense.  You propose your non-allstar lineup that apparently has better potential at winning the world series than the current Yankee lineup, and most likely it will result in me getting a good chuckle out of it.

Instead, you will find it a lot easier and much more reasonable to pick apart the Yankee pitching acquisitions over the years.  That&#039;s where your disappointment should be focused.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And to finish this thought off I will mention this one again:</p>
<p>&#8220;the Yankees wouldâ€™ve had more money to sign cheaper, quality players to stray away from the all-star lineup concept which has failed to win playoff games since 2004.&#8221;</p>
<p>Ok so why don&#8217;t you list for me exactly which non-allstar the yankees should have signed rather than the guys that they did sign or trade for.  Take your pick.  Instead of the all-star lineup of Abreu/Damon/ARod/Cano/Sheffield/Posada/Jeter/Matsui/Giambi, who should the Yankees have signed?  Hmm?  Remember, it can&#8217;t be an all-star since you believe that the all-star lineup concept is the reason for the lack of titles in recent years.  That means no Vlad (instead of Sheffield in 2003), no Rowand, no crazy made up trade for Pujols, etc.  All-stars are not wecloem here since most of them probably will choke in the playoffs.  Give me the names of the players that are better equipped for the playoffs but also reasonably equipped for getting the Yankees to the playoffs over 162 games despite the shortcomings of a below average pitching staff.</p>
<p>So the bottom line is, I am more than happy with the current Yankee offense.  You propose your non-allstar lineup that apparently has better potential at winning the world series than the current Yankee lineup, and most likely it will result in me getting a good chuckle out of it.</p>
<p>Instead, you will find it a lot easier and much more reasonable to pick apart the Yankee pitching acquisitions over the years.  That&#8217;s where your disappointment should be focused.</p>
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		<title>By: dooty</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/09/pinch-hitting-scott-proctors-arm/comment-page-2/#comment-240158</link>
		<dc:creator>dooty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2008 18:50:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/09/pinch-hitting-scott-proctors-arm/#comment-240158</guid>
		<description>also take quick notice of who the worst 2 yankee hitters were in the 2007 postseason:  jeter and posada.  Yeah, so let&#039;s use a small 4 game sample size to do something rash and let&#039;s get rid of those non-clutch all-starry overpaid guys that can&#039;t hit when it really counts.  Those bums.  Brosius would have hit 10 homers in that series.  So Let&#039;s find a quality non-all star like him to replace all the all-star hitters.

See how silly that sounds? Don&#039;t overreact to a short series.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>also take quick notice of who the worst 2 yankee hitters were in the 2007 postseason:  jeter and posada.  Yeah, so let&#8217;s use a small 4 game sample size to do something rash and let&#8217;s get rid of those non-clutch all-starry overpaid guys that can&#8217;t hit when it really counts.  Those bums.  Brosius would have hit 10 homers in that series.  So Let&#8217;s find a quality non-all star like him to replace all the all-star hitters.</p>
<p>See how silly that sounds? Don&#8217;t overreact to a short series.</p>
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		<title>By: dooty</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/09/pinch-hitting-scott-proctors-arm/comment-page-2/#comment-240155</link>
		<dc:creator>dooty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2008 18:44:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/09/pinch-hitting-scott-proctors-arm/#comment-240155</guid>
		<description>When are people going to realize that the &quot;all-star lineup concept&quot; is not why the Yankees have not won a title since 2000? 

The Yankees offense has been BY FAR the best in baseball over the last 5 years.  Now come playoff time they have had their struggles, but guess what, so did the championship Yankee offenses of the late 90&#039;s.  The main difference is that the 90&#039;s champiosnhip teams had great pitching depth throughout the rotation and the bullpen.  Chances were pretty good that you would get a quality start in most games combined with reliable relief, and the most dominant closer ever. 

You say you prefer a &quot;quality&quot; lineup over the all-star lineup idea.  Guess what, the guys who are all-stars are generally the highest quality hitters in the game.  Why do you talk like they are mutually exclusive?  Would you really prefer to have a guy like Brosius over A-Rod?  WE should also dump that all-star Cano.  He&#039;s too all-starry and his quality is lacking.  Let&#039;s go trade for Kaz Matsui to play 2B.  Do you realize how ridiculous it sounds to say &quot;I&#039;d rather have a non-all star than an all-star&quot; in my lineup?  It&#039;s one thing if that all-star is over-the-hill and is a shell of himself (like say, Pudge).  But that&#039;s not the case with the Yankees.  ARod, Jeter, Posada, and Cano are high-quality hitters.  Abreu isn&#039;t the force he used to be but is still pretty good.  Giambi is the over-the-hill guy.  Damon seemed to be pretty good once he got healthy in the second half of 2007, and he was great in 2006.  The worst regular hitter on the team last year (outside of the 1st base platoon) was Melky, the one main guy who is not an all-star.  I mean, come on.    

Seriously, if you want a high quality lineup then you should be more than happy with the Yankee lineups of recent years.

The Yankee teams of the late 90&#039;s had great pitching in the playoffs.  Do you remember the Arizona series, where Brosius/Tino/Jeter hit those memorable homers in Games 4 and 5?  Boy, these current Yankee all-star lineups just can&#039;t compete with that type of clutch hitting, right?  But here&#039;s the thing:  how many runs did the Yankee offense score on innings 1 through 8 of those games?  In Game 4 the Yankees had scored zero runs through the first 8 innings.  In Game 5 they scored 1 run through the first 8 innings.  Yeah, they couldn&#039;t muster up anything against a great pitcher (Schilling) and a mediocre at-best starter (Batista) in those games.  But the thing is, the Yankee pitching wa salso solid.  Moose and El Duque were real good, and so the Yankees were only losing by 2 runs in the 9th inning despite the complete lack of offense.  So guys like Brosius and Tino, who were terrible career postseason hitters, were put in great position to hit a dramatic homer.  Good for them for cashing in.  But then look at this year.  Game 4 against Cleveland, Abreu and ARod hit late inning homers.  Does anybody remember those?  No?  Oh, those were just meaningless homers I guess?  Please, the only difference with their homers is that the Yankee pitching that day (Wang/Moose) let the game get completely out of hand.  Not even Ortiz/Manny would have been able to come back from that deficit.

So the main point here is:  the yankee pitchers of the late 90&#039;s teams put the decent Yankee offenses in good position to do something dramatic.  These recent Yankee pitching staffs have not done the same.

2005:  Johnson/Mussina tank 2 games of a 5 game series
2006:  Johnson/Wright tank 2 games of a 5 game series
2007:  Wang tanks 2 games of a 5 game series, and Clemens only lasts a couple of inninfs in his start.  That&#039;s 3 terrible starts in a 5 game series.

Sorry, but when your pitching is that terrible, it doesn&#039;t matter how great your offense is.  

Seriously think about this:  if you had to pick one thing that has been the bigger thorn in the Yankee side since 2004, would you choose hitting or pitching?  There are so many stats to answer this question clearly:  the pitching quality for the Yankees has been much worse from 2004-2007 than it was prior to that (Brown, Weaver, Contreras, Vazquez, Johnson, Wright, old Mussina, Igawa, Pavano, etc).  This is why it is so important for some guys like Hughes and Chamberlain and Kennedy to become awesome for the Yankees.  The Yankees need the pitching to improve.  The offense is the biggest asset the team has, and it is clearly not the reason they have not won world titles in recent years.  The pitching needs to step up and match the greatness of the lineup.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When are people going to realize that the &#8220;all-star lineup concept&#8221; is not why the Yankees have not won a title since 2000? </p>
<p>The Yankees offense has been BY FAR the best in baseball over the last 5 years.  Now come playoff time they have had their struggles, but guess what, so did the championship Yankee offenses of the late 90&#8242;s.  The main difference is that the 90&#8242;s champiosnhip teams had great pitching depth throughout the rotation and the bullpen.  Chances were pretty good that you would get a quality start in most games combined with reliable relief, and the most dominant closer ever. </p>
<p>You say you prefer a &#8220;quality&#8221; lineup over the all-star lineup idea.  Guess what, the guys who are all-stars are generally the highest quality hitters in the game.  Why do you talk like they are mutually exclusive?  Would you really prefer to have a guy like Brosius over A-Rod?  WE should also dump that all-star Cano.  He&#8217;s too all-starry and his quality is lacking.  Let&#8217;s go trade for Kaz Matsui to play 2B.  Do you realize how ridiculous it sounds to say &#8220;I&#8217;d rather have a non-all star than an all-star&#8221; in my lineup?  It&#8217;s one thing if that all-star is over-the-hill and is a shell of himself (like say, Pudge).  But that&#8217;s not the case with the Yankees.  ARod, Jeter, Posada, and Cano are high-quality hitters.  Abreu isn&#8217;t the force he used to be but is still pretty good.  Giambi is the over-the-hill guy.  Damon seemed to be pretty good once he got healthy in the second half of 2007, and he was great in 2006.  The worst regular hitter on the team last year (outside of the 1st base platoon) was Melky, the one main guy who is not an all-star.  I mean, come on.    </p>
<p>Seriously, if you want a high quality lineup then you should be more than happy with the Yankee lineups of recent years.</p>
<p>The Yankee teams of the late 90&#8242;s had great pitching in the playoffs.  Do you remember the Arizona series, where Brosius/Tino/Jeter hit those memorable homers in Games 4 and 5?  Boy, these current Yankee all-star lineups just can&#8217;t compete with that type of clutch hitting, right?  But here&#8217;s the thing:  how many runs did the Yankee offense score on innings 1 through 8 of those games?  In Game 4 the Yankees had scored zero runs through the first 8 innings.  In Game 5 they scored 1 run through the first 8 innings.  Yeah, they couldn&#8217;t muster up anything against a great pitcher (Schilling) and a mediocre at-best starter (Batista) in those games.  But the thing is, the Yankee pitching wa salso solid.  Moose and El Duque were real good, and so the Yankees were only losing by 2 runs in the 9th inning despite the complete lack of offense.  So guys like Brosius and Tino, who were terrible career postseason hitters, were put in great position to hit a dramatic homer.  Good for them for cashing in.  But then look at this year.  Game 4 against Cleveland, Abreu and ARod hit late inning homers.  Does anybody remember those?  No?  Oh, those were just meaningless homers I guess?  Please, the only difference with their homers is that the Yankee pitching that day (Wang/Moose) let the game get completely out of hand.  Not even Ortiz/Manny would have been able to come back from that deficit.</p>
<p>So the main point here is:  the yankee pitchers of the late 90&#8242;s teams put the decent Yankee offenses in good position to do something dramatic.  These recent Yankee pitching staffs have not done the same.</p>
<p>2005:  Johnson/Mussina tank 2 games of a 5 game series<br />
2006:  Johnson/Wright tank 2 games of a 5 game series<br />
2007:  Wang tanks 2 games of a 5 game series, and Clemens only lasts a couple of inninfs in his start.  That&#8217;s 3 terrible starts in a 5 game series.</p>
<p>Sorry, but when your pitching is that terrible, it doesn&#8217;t matter how great your offense is.  </p>
<p>Seriously think about this:  if you had to pick one thing that has been the bigger thorn in the Yankee side since 2004, would you choose hitting or pitching?  There are so many stats to answer this question clearly:  the pitching quality for the Yankees has been much worse from 2004-2007 than it was prior to that (Brown, Weaver, Contreras, Vazquez, Johnson, Wright, old Mussina, Igawa, Pavano, etc).  This is why it is so important for some guys like Hughes and Chamberlain and Kennedy to become awesome for the Yankees.  The Yankees need the pitching to improve.  The offense is the biggest asset the team has, and it is clearly not the reason they have not won world titles in recent years.  The pitching needs to step up and match the greatness of the lineup.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Fiore</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/09/pinch-hitting-scott-proctors-arm/comment-page-2/#comment-240040</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Fiore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2008 16:36:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/09/pinch-hitting-scott-proctors-arm/#comment-240040</guid>
		<description>I think Mr. Scott Proctor&#039;s Arm really summarized the off-season well. I&#039;ll admit Posada and Rivera&#039;s contract are kind of bloated because they are both getting older. I also understand why they did because maybe they are going to develop Chamberlain as the closer or bring up J.B. Cox. With Posada, they probably have one catcher that could be a starter in the future from what I understand and he&#039;s about 3 years away. 

I wanted Girardi to be the Yankees manager but I had second thoughts when they fired Torre and wanted to bring in Mattingly. I wondered if maybe Mattingly could&#039;ve been the better choice but I think in the end going from 2008 and beyond Girardi is the choice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Mr. Scott Proctor&#8217;s Arm really summarized the off-season well. I&#8217;ll admit Posada and Rivera&#8217;s contract are kind of bloated because they are both getting older. I also understand why they did because maybe they are going to develop Chamberlain as the closer or bring up J.B. Cox. With Posada, they probably have one catcher that could be a starter in the future from what I understand and he&#8217;s about 3 years away. </p>
<p>I wanted Girardi to be the Yankees manager but I had second thoughts when they fired Torre and wanted to bring in Mattingly. I wondered if maybe Mattingly could&#8217;ve been the better choice but I think in the end going from 2008 and beyond Girardi is the choice.</p>
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		<title>By: Drew</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/09/pinch-hitting-scott-proctors-arm/comment-page-2/#comment-240031</link>
		<dc:creator>Drew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2008 16:26:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/09/pinch-hitting-scott-proctors-arm/#comment-240031</guid>
		<description>Good job jr.  You already know how I feel about the contracts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good job jr.  You already know how I feel about the contracts.</p>
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		<title>By: Rockin' Rich</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/09/pinch-hitting-scott-proctors-arm/comment-page-2/#comment-239999</link>
		<dc:creator>Rockin' Rich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2008 15:50:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/09/pinch-hitting-scott-proctors-arm/#comment-239999</guid>
		<description>Largely, the problems in re-signing vets were the results of not signing them earlier, when they could have gotten them cheaper. Yes, it&#039;s agamble, but that&#039;s what insurance is for... sometimes, anyway.

Good post, though. 

(Thinking of changing the name of your blog, perhaps?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Largely, the problems in re-signing vets were the results of not signing them earlier, when they could have gotten them cheaper. Yes, it&#8217;s agamble, but that&#8217;s what insurance is for&#8230; sometimes, anyway.</p>
<p>Good post, though. </p>
<p>(Thinking of changing the name of your blog, perhaps?)</p>
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