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Some signs of a Santana trade?

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jan 10, 2008 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

The well-respected Joe Christensen of the Star-Tribune in Minneapolis has an interesting story on the Johan Santana situation today.

The desperate-to-do-something Mets have included top pitching prospect Deolis Guerra to their offer. Their package appears to be:

RHP Deolis Guerra
OF Carlos Gomez
RHP Kevin Mulvey
RHP Phil Humber

The Twins also want CF Fernando Martinez. It’s uncertain whether the Mets would give him up. But Carlos Beltran isn’t going anywhere any time soon. Many people around the industry believe the Mets traded for Angel Pagan last week to give them some OF depth in advance of a trade for Santana.

The Mets always get deals done with Peter Greenberg, so signing Santana to an extention would be no problem.

It seems pretty evident that Brian Cashman and Theo Epstein don’t really want Santana and his contract, otherwise a deal would have already gotten done. If Santana ends up in Queens, the AL East rivals would be thrilled.

Even Chairman Hank seems to understand that this trade doesn’t make sense because of the money and years it would take to sign Santana.

Side note: Exchanged some e-mails with Phil Hughes the last couple of days. He started working out in Tampa a few days ago. Phil Franchise used some of his bonus money to get a place in Florida and he’s one of the first to report to the complex.

 
 

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242 Responses to “Some signs of a Santana trade?”

  1. JBRO January 10th, 2008 at 12:03 pm

    This would be awesome

  2. Yazman January 10th, 2008 at 12:07 pm

    It would certainly be a good situation for Santana.

    And even if the Red Sox overpaid for Santana (even Lester+Ellsbury, never mind the weak packages proposed), it wouldn’t be good for the Yanks. I think the Yanks’ #1 goal is that Santana not go to Fenway.

  3. Yazman January 10th, 2008 at 12:09 pm

    Plus the Mets need Santana more desperately than anyone. If they got Joahan and Pedro’s healthy come the playoffs, they’ll be a force.

  4. Phil January 10th, 2008 at 12:09 pm

    Seeing Santana in a Mets uniform during the Mets-Yankees series would be…..uh…..I’d rather have him on the mound for the Yanks.

  5. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Save the Three Musketeers! January 10th, 2008 at 12:11 pm

    Dude, that information about Phil just makes me love him even more…

  6. Hello January 10th, 2008 at 12:11 pm

    I think both the BoSox and the Yanks are sitting back silently rooting for Omar to pull the trigger.

  7. Yazman January 10th, 2008 at 12:11 pm

    Agreed, Phil.

  8. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Save the Three Musketeers! January 10th, 2008 at 12:12 pm

    And the Mets need more than one pitcher if they have any serious plans for October.

  9. raymagnetic January 10th, 2008 at 12:12 pm

    Isn’t Fernando Martinez a RF?

  10. SJ44 January 10th, 2008 at 12:14 pm

    Agreed hello.

  11. i miss bernie January 10th, 2008 at 12:14 pm

    since i had declared a moratorium on speaking about ace pitchers from northern midwest teams… i would say that the mets may be crazy to trade all thier top talent for an unmentionable ace, but it sure would change the picture in the NL East. SP is the only thing the mets are really lacking. (they will still need more of it, though)

  12. Scooter January 10th, 2008 at 12:15 pm

    Pete -
    The morning after you asked Howard Rubenstein about the org chart, Hank admitted to the Daily News that it is an equal partnership between he and Hal:
    http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....ana-2.html

    Now if this is the rumored Mets deal… what do you think happened on the Yankees side?
    1) Hank realized it would take more than Hughes, Melky and Marquez, and the baseball people advocating the deal (Stick Michael?) felt that the cost in prospects would be too high
    2) The Yankees and Sox were playing keep-away, and all the Hank statements were a way to stay in the Santana mix without doing anything. With the Mets stepping forward as lead suitor, the Yankees could step back
    3) After your question, and all the media questions, the Yankees realilzed they needed Hank to publicly admit that he was NOT the new boss. Ultimately, Hal said “no” to Santana, and that put the kibbosh on the deal.

    I guess it could be a mix of all of the above…

  13. Bring Back Tony Womack to Play Left Field January 10th, 2008 at 12:15 pm

    Phil, you’re starting too early! You’re gonna hurt yourself!

  14. hmmm January 10th, 2008 at 12:16 pm

    if the Mets want to give up their top 5 prospects, they can go ahead and do that.

    the Yankees are not going to try to beat that (they would have to BEAT the Mets offer, not just match it, since the Twins would prefer to deal Santana out of the AL).

    that would involve something like Tabata, Kennedy, Horne, and Jackson.

    would anyone here make that trade?

    now, i don’t like the Mets’ pitching prospects that much, i think Humber is pretty overrated, but that doesn’t mean the Twins don’t feel the same way.

  15. randy l. January 10th, 2008 at 12:17 pm

    “If Santana ends up in Queens, the AL East Rivals would be thrilled.”
    if it were allowedl for mlb trades, theo and cashman would probably throw in a low level prospect or two into the mets package if it would help get santana to the mets and stop each of hem from overpaying to keep santana away from each other.

  16. Geo Diego January 10th, 2008 at 12:17 pm

    Santana to the mets would be great. Yes we have to play them a few times but its much better than him in fenway. Good going Hughes.

  17. Phil January 10th, 2008 at 12:18 pm

    The Mets do need Santana more than the Yankees or the Red Sox as their pitching was bad before Glavine left.

  18. hmmm January 10th, 2008 at 12:20 pm

    “Seeing Santana in a Mets uniform during the Mets-Yankees series would be…..uh…..I’d rather have him on the mound for the Yanks.”

    i don’t get it, who cares? the Yankees play the Mets 6 games per year.

    besides bragging rights, why should it matter?

    a game against the Mets is less important than a game against the Devil Rays once you take the emotion out of it.

    i’d love to have Johan too, but if the Mets want to trade their top 5 prospects for him, they can go for it.

  19. Florida Yank January 10th, 2008 at 12:22 pm

    No surprise that Phil Hughes is working out. He’s one of several Yankees including the Captain and his catcher (Jorge) that live in Tampa and go to the minor league complex across the road from Legends Field for early workouts. They’ll be joined by several others looking to get a head start.

  20. Don Capone January 10th, 2008 at 12:23 pm

    If the Mets get him, that’ll be great. Keep Phil Hughes!

  21. Doreen January 10th, 2008 at 12:26 pm

    Well, even if Santana stays with the Twins, they’d have to face him, so if they have to face him vs. the Mets, who cares? Facing Santana isn’t the issue, even if he were on the Red Sox. It’s what Santana would add to the Red Sox if they got him.

  22. Wotii Chang January 10th, 2008 at 12:26 pm

    ‎”Phil you’re starting too early you’re gonna get hurt” Practicing and working out doesn’t get players hurt. What gets them her is overworking their arms I’m sure Hughes knows that and he’s just there to be in shape.

  23. S.o.S.27 January 10th, 2008 at 12:27 pm

    Put this day in your calender as one of the few times that Yankee fans are actually rooting for the Mets to get better. Can someone remember the last time that happened?

    If Santana goes to the Mets. I think we should try to get Nathan from them for a Melky and Marquiz or something similiar to that. Nathan and Rivera back to back. Not too shabby.Thoughts.

  24. Yanksrule57 January 10th, 2008 at 12:27 pm

    I smell the desparation coming from Queens on this one. The Twins look like they are going to siphon everything they can from the Met’s system. Good. Better them than us.
    The Met’s have to replace Glavine and this def would be a significant upgrade.

    Jeez, Santana in the NL might win 20 by August.

  25. Doreen January 10th, 2008 at 12:28 pm

    Pete, good news about Phil. Can’t wait for the season to start.

  26. Phil January 10th, 2008 at 12:31 pm

    hmmmm: Has nothing to do with the game against the Mets being more important than any other regular season game. Has to do with the fact that I have tickets to Yankees games and not Mets games at Shea. Otherwise I wouldn’t see Santana.

  27. Jim PA January 10th, 2008 at 12:31 pm

    God bless Omar Minaya if he can put an end to this ridiculous Santana standoff (we don’t want him, but wait, yes we do, but only if the Sox do). And Phil Franchise has a work ethic! Don’t you just love this kid already?

  28. BBB January 10th, 2008 at 12:32 pm

    Sounds good to me, hope they get it done! In addition to obvious reasons why the Mets getting him would be good for us, it would be cool to watch Santana hit on a regular basis, he is pretty good at it.

  29. i miss bernie January 10th, 2008 at 12:32 pm

    hmmm
    i think he might have been referring to a post season series against the mets.
    certainly could happen given the state of the NL these days

  30. Rich January 10th, 2008 at 12:32 pm

    That’s outstanding news on Phil Hughes. There’s a guy that went into ’07 the top ranked pitching prospect in baseball and due to injury saw his reputation take a slight hit. I can’t wait to see what kind of season he puts together over a full 162. That’s also the kind of work ethic you want to see out of a future #1 starter.

  31. S.o.S.27 January 10th, 2008 at 12:32 pm

    Im really happy to here about Jeter working out hard this year. After a banged up year, I think he will finally take the batting title and be an MVP candidate. Last year he was playing volley ball with Beil on net and him serving. Cant immagine he got manny serves over.

  32. TurnTwo January 10th, 2008 at 12:33 pm

    SOS, agreed. Cashman should be first in line for Nathan.

    they obviously like Marquez, if they were willing to take him over other pitchers in the reported Johan deal… pair him with two other lower level prospects and you should have yourself a deal.

  33. J. V. - Yonkers January 10th, 2008 at 12:35 pm

    No big deal if Santana ends up in Queens. He is not the difference maker with the Mets. He winds up as 1 of 4 marquee names the Mets can boast about with Wright, Reyes, and Beltran. Nothing is carved in stone with Pedro. The NL East is weak. Let the Mets trade what little future their farm system has. Run the table. Go the gamut. Maybe they can put a few more rumps in their new ballpark in 2009. Metro NYC can handle it.

  34. BBB January 10th, 2008 at 12:36 pm

    S.o.S., good idea on looking into Nathan. I think a lot of the kids in our system are going to step up and become important parts of the pen this year, but maybe not immediately and/or without some growing pains, so it would make me feel a lot better to have a guaranteed arm like Nathan’s in there. The only thing is though, he’s a FA soon, so not sure how he would feel about going into free agency looking for a closer’s job and money, but just having been a setup guy. But I like the idea of adding a proven arm. If Nathan didn’t work out, I wonder if a similar deal for Bobby Jenks might be possible?

  35. hmmm January 10th, 2008 at 12:37 pm

    “i think he might have been referring to a post season series against the mets.
    certainly could happen given the state of the NL these days”

    well, i guess if the Yankees make it to the WS, i can worry about it then.

    ” Has to do with the fact that I have tickets to Yankees games and not Mets games at Shea. Otherwise I wouldn’t see Santana.”

    gotcha.

  36. McLovin January 10th, 2008 at 12:38 pm

    Good to keep Phil but Pete don’t say the contract is out of this world.If we gave him a 6 year extension he will gives us 4 of those years in his prime.And he’s worth $20 million with Giambi and Andy “HGH” Pettite off the books.

    He’s 29 not 33 like Mussina or 40 like Randy Johnson.I would have given Ian Kennedy,Austin Jackson,Tabata and Marquez.Because like someone in ESPN radio said you can get outfielders in the freeagent market not young pitching.Especially 29 Santana.

  37. kd January 10th, 2008 at 12:39 pm

    anyone know if phil and jeter are working out together? that would be huge, jeter could give him useful tips all winter

  38. S.o.S.27 January 10th, 2008 at 12:40 pm

    Wotii Chang
    January 10th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
    ‎”Phil you’re starting too early you’re gonna get hurt” Practicing and working out doesn’t get players hurt. What gets them her is overworking their arms I’m sure Hughes knows that and he’s just there to be in shape.

    Some old school trainers and pitchers believe that pitching more actually prevents injury. They say that it actually strenghens your arm rather than hurts it. So let him throw all he wants.

  39. Vader January 10th, 2008 at 12:40 pm

    I wish Santana would make it to FA, but if not please go to the Mets and soon. As for Phil, great news, IMO he is going to change alot of fans minds this year.

  40. i miss bernie January 10th, 2008 at 12:41 pm

    ok i got ya
    wouldn’t that be crazy though, a subway series to close out both ballparks!

  41. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge January 10th, 2008 at 12:41 pm

    Is def showing the Yankees why he shouldn’t be traded. :D

    You know what is amazing assuming that this story is accurate no matter who a team includes in a trade it is never enough. The twins are always looking for another player.

  42. hmmm January 10th, 2008 at 12:42 pm

    “I would have given Ian Kennedy,Austin Jackson,Tabata and Marquez.Because like someone in ESPN radio said you can get outfielders in the freeagent market not young pitching.”

    well, if ESPN radio said it, it must be a good idea.

  43. grafxkid January 10th, 2008 at 12:43 pm

    Thanks for the Hughes update. I pray he’s still in pinstripes come Opening Day. “Phil Franchise” is right!!

  44. i miss bernie January 10th, 2008 at 12:43 pm

    jennifer
    i agree, but the mets deal isnt done (apparently b/c the twins are asking for 1 more guy)

  45. BBB January 10th, 2008 at 12:43 pm

    Oh, and the blurb on Hughes buying a place in Tampa to start his workouts earlier just serves as further proof why trading him would be ridiculous. The kid’s mental makeup and work ethic are obviously off the charts and enough to handle NY – and considering he is cost controlled for 5 more years, absolute blasphemy to even entertain the thought of getting rid of him!

  46. hmmm January 10th, 2008 at 12:44 pm

    “You know what is amazing assuming that this story is accurate no matter who a team includes in a trade it is never enough. The twins are always looking for another player.”

    in fairness to the Twins, the guy the Mets won’t give up is their #1 prospect. he’s really the guy the Twins want.

    i am sure the Twins would drop one of the other guys from the deal if Martinez was included.

  47. McLovin January 10th, 2008 at 12:47 pm

    hmmm-

    No but it brings up a great point.Everybody so crazy for Austin Jackson and Tabatha though Phil Hughes is more better then those two put together.The Yankees didn’t have to put Hughes in this deal.The Mets are giving up pitchers that are like Alan Horne,AA pitchers.But they are giving up two outfield prospects and adding quanity rather then quality.

  48. JonMichel January 10th, 2008 at 12:48 pm

    That’s what I like to see from a guy my age going to work before Pettitte, Joba, Ian, Moose, Wang, and so on. Hughes is a type of guy that kids should look up to with good work ethic and determination.

  49. i miss bernie January 10th, 2008 at 12:50 pm

    NEWS FLASH: TWINS CLOSE TO TRADING SANTANTA TO MISSOURI
    ap is reporting that the Minnesota Twins are considering trading Johan Santana to the state of Missouri for the entire major and minor league rosters of the Cardinals and Royals. sources say the sticking point is that the twins are holding out for Kaufman Stadium to be thrown in to close the deal…
    stay tuned for more…

  50. Vader January 10th, 2008 at 12:50 pm

    I’m with you BBB

  51. Jake January 10th, 2008 at 12:51 pm

    Phil is motivated. I love the determination, just hope he doesn’t tire himself out before season’s end.

    Let Santana go to the Mets, who cares. I am tired of hearing his name. Also, let the Mets sell the farm and spend the money. It really isn’t worth it. Plus, it keeps him out of the AL BEast and AL for that matter.

  52. S.o.S.27 January 10th, 2008 at 12:51 pm

    TurnTwo
    January 10th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
    SOS, agreed. Cashman should be first in line for Nathan.

    they obviously like Marquez, if they were willing to take him over other pitchers in the reported Johan deal… pair him with two other lower level prospects and you should have yourself a deal.

    Sign me up. I would try harder to get Nathan than they did getting Santana. I really believe Nathan is the missing piece that could make us the favorites to win the A.L.

    Hmmm(swami),
    I mentioned this yesterday and want your oppinion. Who do you think will make the most impact from the farm this year for the Big League team?
    My guess was Horne and close second Miranda.

  53. McLovin January 10th, 2008 at 12:52 pm

    WEll it seems the Mets are getting Santana.So can we now give up Alan Horne for Dámaso Marte or a another setup man.

  54. S.o.S.27 January 10th, 2008 at 12:54 pm

    BBB
    January 10th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
    S.o.S., good idea on looking into Nathan. I think a lot of the kids in our system are going to step up and become important parts of the pen this year, but maybe not immediately and/or without some growing pains, so it would make me feel a lot better to have a guaranteed arm like Nathan’s in there. The only thing is though, he’s a FA soon, so not sure how he would feel about going into free agency looking for a closer’s job and money, but just having been a setup guy. But I like the idea of adding a proven arm. If Nathan didn’t work out, I wonder if a similar deal for Bobby Jenks might be possible?

    Good point. I wouldnt mind having a Jenks either. I just think Nathan is more optainable, being that they want to cut money and we have been in talks with them.

  55. Jake January 10th, 2008 at 12:55 pm

    SoS,

    Nathan would be nice, but at what cost?

    You don’t think Smith would demand a hefty price for Nathan? Maybe not as hefty as Santana, but I wouldn’t put it past him to demand Kennedy, Marquez, and Cabrera. Would you? Given what he has asked for for Santana?

    I’d love Nathan setting up for Mariano and eventually closing. I guarantee he is made available and traded before the deadline this year…who knows where to though.

  56. BBB January 10th, 2008 at 12:57 pm

    Speaking of Damaso Marte, is Pittsburgh still being insane and asking for Kennedy in exchange for him? I don’t even think I’d deal Horne for him, Marquez sounds more palatable.

    As an aside, you gotta feel pretty bad for Pirates fans if they are still any left. From what I’ve heard about what they’re asking from other teams in trades (i.e. half the Indians farm system for the over-rated Jason Bay) their new GM is even dumber, and less likely to get anything done, than Littlefield.

  57. yankeesmuse January 10th, 2008 at 12:58 pm

    I cant see the mets agreeing to give up Martinez he is their top prospect and only 19. although the outfield is a little overcrowded now. If he turns out to be half the hitter he is projected to be. I can see him starting at 1st for the mets in 2011. The Yankees package is the better one. Seems like asking for Martinez is just a step down from asking for Reyes or Milledge.

  58. i miss bernie January 10th, 2008 at 1:01 pm

    BBB
    yeah i feel terrible for the pirate fans(both of them). We built them a gorgeous new ballpark (my personal favorite) and they return the favor by barely beating thier revenue sharing check in total payroll.

  59. S.o.S.27 January 10th, 2008 at 1:02 pm

    Jake
    January 10th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
    SoS,

    Nathan would be nice, but at what cost?

    You don’t think Smith would demand a hefty price for Nathan? Maybe not as hefty as Santana, but I wouldn’t put it past him to demand Kennedy, Marquez, and Cabrera. Would you? Given what he has asked for for Santana?

    That looks like a similiar package that he asked for in the Santana negotiations. He can ask for the whatever he wants, it doesnt mean he would get it. You have to think Smith isnt that stupid. He cant possibly think that Nathan would net him as much as Santana. NO WAY I GIVE UP THE BIG 4. He can have some extra C rated players if hed like. Maybe even Karstens for some immediate help. Cabrera,Marquiz,Karstens.

  60. McLovin January 10th, 2008 at 1:02 pm

    Whats up with this Jason Lane rumor?Giambi,Wilson,Duncan,Damon,Matsui, and now lane for left field and 1st base.Why han’t the Yankees at least traded some of these guys.Bullpen or prospects at least.

  61. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge January 10th, 2008 at 1:04 pm

    I’m sure Phil is doing this under the supervision of Yankees training staff.

  62. Jake January 10th, 2008 at 1:05 pm

    BBB,

    Jim Callis at Baseball America ranks Marquez higher than Horne.

  63. Russell NY January 10th, 2008 at 1:06 pm

    I love The Yankees

  64. JBRO January 10th, 2008 at 1:06 pm

    I would give anything to see a Hughes victory of Santana against the Mets….

  65. saucy January 10th, 2008 at 1:08 pm

    how hyped up will a Hughes vs Santana sunday night Yanks/Mets game be if this deal went through?

  66. Russell NY January 10th, 2008 at 1:10 pm

    “NEWS FLASH: TWINS CLOSE TO TRADING SANTANTA TO MISSOURI
    ap is reporting that the Minnesota Twins are considering trading Johan Santana to the state of Missouri for the entire major and minor league rosters of the Cardinals and Royals. sources say the sticking point is that the twins are holding out for Kaufman Stadium to be thrown in to close the deal…
    stay tuned for more…”

    Do you have an update on this? I heard they threw in the stadium.

  67. S.o.S.27 January 10th, 2008 at 1:11 pm

    Another team we should be rooting for is the Mariners. Cant say i will miss Beddard pitching agianst us a handfull of games each year. Now we just need Jays to trade Halliday and the season will be set.

  68. Vader January 10th, 2008 at 1:11 pm

    How can you not love the yankees?

  69. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge January 10th, 2008 at 1:12 pm

    S.o.S.27

    Isn’t that the truth. I heard Burnett might be on the market. So that might be good too.

  70. i miss bernie January 10th, 2008 at 1:12 pm

    russ, now they’re holding out for Busch instead of Kaufman because the fountains cost too much to maintain.

  71. Russell NY January 10th, 2008 at 1:13 pm

    I ask my girlfriend that every day.

  72. pat January 10th, 2008 at 1:13 pm

    Pete said Phil is working out, he didn’t say he was pitching. Most pitchers have to do leg, core and flexibility work before they even start throwing.

  73. Russell NY January 10th, 2008 at 1:14 pm

    “russ, now they’re holding out for Busch instead of Kaufman because the fountains cost too much to maintain.”

    NEWS FLASH: 3-way trade which now includes Poland Spring, which will apparently supply the water. Poland Spring would get exclusive marketing rights.

  74. i miss bernie January 10th, 2008 at 1:16 pm

    throw in the pine tar bat and you’ve got a deal russ….

  75. hmmm January 10th, 2008 at 1:22 pm

    “I mentioned this yesterday and want your oppinion. Who do you think will make the most impact from the farm this year for the Big League team?
    My guess was Horne and close second Miranda.”

    yeah, i would agree with that. Melancon would be next, and possibly Sanchez in the second half.

  76. S.o.S.27 January 10th, 2008 at 1:24 pm

    jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge
    January 10th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
    S.o.S.27

    Isn’t that the truth. I heard Burnett might be on the market. So that might be good too.

    The only aces i dont want traded are Beckett and Kazmir. I know im in the minority on this but heres why.

    Beckett-I love seeing his the whiplash effect when we our lineup hits him hard.

    Kazmir-The Red Sox should call him daddy for the flat out dominance hes showed vs. them.

  77. Jesse January 10th, 2008 at 1:27 pm

    I am not buying it although it would be nice if it were to get done.

    Sounds like a ploy to get the Yankees and Red Sox to sweeten their offers.

    Why would you trade your Ace for not ready for prime time players when you already have two deals on the table that are offering legitimate MLB starters?

    This game will continue on with all the current players playing a high stakes game of chicken.

  78. i miss bernie January 10th, 2008 at 1:27 pm

    was reminded today of a great YS moment:
    i was coming out of Monument Park and i saw Johnny Podres (then coaching the twins) walking past on his way to the bullpen so i called out:”Hey, Podres, you’re not welcome here!”
    He turned around with this sly smile and said “You got me, kid” and walked away.
    ill never forget that jewel thief look he flashed me.

  79. CaptainsCorner January 10th, 2008 at 1:27 pm

    Stupid Hank never should of put Hughes on the table!!! Especially not when he did on Dec 1. when it wasn’t “give us your last offers” or even anywhere close to a deal. Now they won’t take anything less then him from the Yanks. A Yank package of Kennedy, Melky, Marquez, Horne or Jackson is still MUCH better then the Mets package. The Mets package is even worse then what Boston was offering. Watch the Twins actually trade him to the Mets and take worse prospects just to get him out of the AL.

  80. Brian January 10th, 2008 at 1:27 pm

    yankeesmuse

    The twins couldn’t ask for milledge, he’s gone.

  81. hmmm January 10th, 2008 at 1:38 pm

    “Why would you trade your Ace for not ready for prime time players when you already have two deals on the table that are offering legitimate MLB starters?”

    for one, the Twins would prefer to trade Johan to the NL.

    if the Twins trade Johan to the Sox or Yankees, doesn’t that more or less close off the Wildcard to the Twins for the next 3-4 years?

    wouldn’t it be much more desirable from the Twins POV to deal with the Mets?

  82. CB January 10th, 2008 at 1:38 pm

    Interesting bit from that Star Tribune article out of Minnesota:

    “But it’s become abundantly clear the Twins won’t be able to make the perfect trade here. Not for a two-time Cy Young winner. Not for a lefthander who is 93-44 for his career and won’t turn 29 until March.

    No team is going to give the Twins everything they need when that team must turn around and hand Santana a five- or six-year contract extension worth at least $20 million per year.”

    The Twins have been adamant about only getting this deal done on their terms. All the stories coming out from the Minnesota press until recently were about how the Twins were going to get the package they wanted or weren’t trading him.

    Sounds like Bill Smith is trying to downgrade their fan bases expectations.

    http://www.startribune.com/spo.....27791.html

  83. Jake January 10th, 2008 at 1:39 pm

    I kept trying to ask Jim Callis yesterday what he thinks of the Yankees 08 bullpen in comparison to 2007′s.

    I am inclined to presume that it will include the following:
    Ohlendorf
    Rivera
    Hawkins
    Farnsworth(something?)
    Igawa
    Albaladejo
    and maybe Karstens

    It seems like a wash compared to last year, but I think it is fair to anticipate appearances from Kennedy (if Mussina wins the spot in the rotation), Sanchez, Marquez, Horne, and maybe Britton.

    Why the hell is Brian Bruney still a Yankee?

  84. hmmm January 10th, 2008 at 1:41 pm

    “Watch the Twins actually trade him to the Mets and take worse prospects just to get him out of the AL.”

    if they do that, what did you want the Yankees to do about that?

  85. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge January 10th, 2008 at 1:42 pm

    Brian -

    That has to be one of the stupiest trades. They got garbage in return for him. :lol: I know his stock was down, but they probably still could have gotten more than they did.

  86. i miss bernie January 10th, 2008 at 1:46 pm

    yeah, the millege trade was laughable. talk about selling a guy at his lowest value… if they just brought him to ST and let him play for a few weeks they could have done much better than what they got.

  87. hmmm January 10th, 2008 at 1:47 pm

    “Why the hell is Brian Bruney still a Yankee?”

    because in his first 53+ innings as a yankee he had a 1.51 ERA with 51 K’s?

    because he throws 95+ MPH?

  88. CB January 10th, 2008 at 1:48 pm

    I agree that the Twins motivation for trading Santana out of the AL will be very, very high.

    In particular sending him to Boston or NY will just make trouble for the Twins as it makes the Wild Card that much more difficult.

    But overall, nearly any trade they make with the Mets for minor leaguers will be a poor one for the Twins.

    Humber has been a major dissapointment and is already 25. Mulvey is a nice prospect but doesn’t have great stuff. Gomez hasn’t shown consistent ability to make contact and strikes out a lot for a speed player.

    Guerros and Martinez have high upsides but they are so young and years away.

    The Twins whole thinking in this trade has supposedly been to get at least two impact, cost controlled young players who are ready to step into the starting line up/ staff this season.

    With the Mets deal they wouldn’t be meeting those criteria. Gomez, Humber and Mulvey haven’t shown they are ready to play everyday, in the least.

    Nothing the yankees can do about that but Minnesota could get a much better deal in terms of talent from the Yankees even without Phil Hughes.

  89. Bronx Liaison January 10th, 2008 at 1:53 pm

    When’s the last time the Yankees and Red Sox fanbases collectively wanted the Mets to pick up the best pitcher in baseball?

    My guess would be never. It’s a pretty crazy dynamic at work, but I – like most posters here – would be absolutely thrilled if Johan spent the rest of his career at Shea. As long as he doesn’t beat the Yanks in the WS of course.

  90. Keith January 10th, 2008 at 1:54 pm

    Jake -

    Scott Patterson will be looked at in spring training as will Edwar Ramirez, and Chris Britton as the righthanders. All are on the 40-man roster.
    As for the lefthanders ????

  91. mel January 10th, 2008 at 1:55 pm

    Crashnick doing a A-rod vs. Pujols chat:

    http://sports.espn.go.com/chat.....t_id=18775

  92. TurnTwo January 10th, 2008 at 1:56 pm

    CB, i agree there. none of those 3 pitchers are better prospects than IPK, and IPK is MLB ready. If you take the IPK, Melky, Marquez package, you are still getting the better deal, although not as good as when you include Hughes.

    IMO, if the Twins take this deal, its because either they see the 2 packages at about the same value, and prefer to trade Johan to a NL team, or Johan is more confident he can get a long term deal done with the Mets, so the Twins have to bite the bullet and take what they can for him.

    it also came out today that the Twins arent very high on Melky’s offensive ability outside the Yankees lineup, for what that’s worth, too. I cant say i disagree with them there.

  93. i miss bernie January 10th, 2008 at 1:57 pm

    BL,
    good point, reminds me of the ’86 series, watching the mets (a very hated team at the time) face the hated bosox of clemens and boggs. i was rooting for the umps until it looked like the Sox would win,then switched and pulled for the mets.
    btw…if he spends the rest of his career in shea, he’ll be very lonely after 08!

  94. Bronx Liaison January 10th, 2008 at 1:59 pm

    TurnTwo:

    Totally agree with your assessment. Melky best fits with a team like NY where he is somewhat hidden behind a great lineup and highlighted by a somewhat shaky outfield defense.

  95. Bronx Liaison January 10th, 2008 at 2:02 pm

    hahah touche I Miss Bernie:

    Even once they’re at Citi Field, I’ll probably still call it Shea. I am one of those grumps who absolutely detests the commercialized naming of stadiums or events. The bowl games are sugar, orange, rose, etc. We don’t need a Tostitos Fiesta de la Ano Nueve Bowl or some stadium called the Tri-Com Cellular Blackberry Arena.

    And as an aside, your anecdote regarding the 86 series is hilarious and belongs on one of those HBO “When it was a Game” documentaries.

  96. Doreen January 10th, 2008 at 2:02 pm

    Bronx Liaison -

    I wouldn’t even care if he beat the Yankees in the WS, as long as the Yankees won 4 of the 7 games. :)

  97. Doreen January 10th, 2008 at 2:05 pm

    At least “Citi Field” isn’t as convoluted as some of the names, and you could pretend you’re calling it “CitY Field.”

    For the Yankee venue, how long do you think people will call it the NEW Yankee Stadium, as opposed to the Stadium or Yankee Stadium? Or will it always be called simply, “The Stadium?”

  98. Bronx Liaison January 10th, 2008 at 2:05 pm

    haha Doreen.

    Now your thinking ahead of the game!

  99. i miss bernie January 10th, 2008 at 2:06 pm

    bl i was rushing and left out how the hated mets were led by straw-gooden. funny how things changed in the 15 years that followed eh?

  100. CB January 10th, 2008 at 2:07 pm

    TurnTwo,

    IMO I’d tell the Twins, we’ve decided that giving up Hughes and all that money is too expensive for us.

    I’d try to build an alternative package around Kennedy and Horne.

    Kennedy, Horne, Marquez, Melky, Alberto Gonzalez, and Mitch Hillgoss (or Igawa if they really do like him as has been reported).

    I think that’s still a better deal than the mets package. No idea if they would be interested, however.

    Martinez is just very far away from the majors and they would really be betting a lot on him if they accepted that deal. He was good in AA last year if you account for his age but I don’t think he’s ready for AAA this year. Guerra also is very far away.

    By the time Martinez and Guerra come up Morneau, Cuddyer and even Mauer may all be gone because of financial pressures.

    Shipping him to the NL however must be very tempting.

  101. Jim PA January 10th, 2008 at 2:07 pm

    “Citi Field” sounds like a Housing Authority playground.

  102. Bronx Liaison January 10th, 2008 at 2:10 pm

    I agree Citi Field isn’t as bad as some. My beef is more so with some of the other ridiculous names. Call me old fashioned.

    I Miss Bernie:

    Seriously, no one could have predicted Straw’s path 15 years ago.

  103. i miss bernie January 10th, 2008 at 2:10 pm

    one of the worst names doesnt even have a corporate sponsor – oriole park at camden yards or opcy, sounds like a david bowie song.

  104. Doreen January 10th, 2008 at 2:15 pm

    The problem with the corporate names is that they change when or if the sponsor changes, and they’re hard to keep track of as it is – especially in the NL, which I don’t follow as much as the AL. Camden Yards is a nice name. The whole name is too much to say.

  105. Doreen January 10th, 2008 at 2:15 pm

    Jim PA -

    Isn’t it? j/k

  106. i miss bernie January 10th, 2008 at 2:16 pm

    cant wait till they do get a sponsor “edgar’s crabcakes at oriole park at camden yards” ECOPCY sounds pretty good.

  107. JimL January 10th, 2008 at 2:17 pm

    Jeter can give Phil all the tips he wants on how to work out and stay healthy, but I hope that Phil doesn’t use Jeter’s tax advior :)

  108. Doreen January 10th, 2008 at 2:18 pm

    Gooden and Strawberry. Sad. They took drugs, but cheated themselves, mostly. I remember all the hype back then of who was better Gooden or Clemens. At the time it was a good argument. Who knows what could’ve been? Or maybe he would be in the Mitchell report. Sigh.

  109. Bronx Liaison January 10th, 2008 at 2:19 pm

    lol @ ECOPCY

    Angel Stadium at Los Angeles of Anaheim Angels Park

    would be a great place to play.

  110. Yazman January 10th, 2008 at 2:19 pm

    Remember, the only time Hughes truly appeared on the block was prior to Andy’s return. The Yanks were desperate for quality top-of-rotation guys who could be counted on for a lot of quality innings (Wang was solo in that dept.) — and they had no southpaws.

    Then that changed.

  111. Old Yanks Fan January 10th, 2008 at 2:21 pm

    That was funny except the part calling me a midget. Hey I’m 5 4′ in heals.
    ———————————————————
    Hey Midge – I’m old and fat. Wanna do dinner sometime?
    P.S. I’m also prone to gas.

  112. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Save the Three Musketeers! January 10th, 2008 at 2:22 pm

    At least the Yanks haven’t sold the Stadium naming rights.

    That’s the first sign of the apocalypse, imo.

  113. Bronx Liaison January 10th, 2008 at 2:24 pm

    Rebecca, what? “Who But WB Mason Field” doesn’t have a good ring to it?

  114. fleas January 10th, 2008 at 2:26 pm

    I guess Bill should have taken Phil when he had the chance.

  115. i miss bernie January 10th, 2008 at 2:28 pm

    as a new citizen of philadelphia i was researching the former location of the baker bowl (home to the phillies from 1880′s-1930′s (and the site of bambino’s last mlb home run). the park had an upsloping outfield to raise it over some train tracks and a 63′fence in right field 280′ from home (the monstah is only 37′)
    for years it had a huge sign on it that read, “the Phillies use LIFEBOY soap” (letters were over 25′ high).
    someone snuck into the park with paint one night and added “and they still stink!”

  116. hmmm January 10th, 2008 at 2:28 pm

    Guisseppe Franco’s Procede Park

  117. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Save the Three Musketeers! January 10th, 2008 at 2:29 pm

    Bronx Liason: You have a point: anything is better than Izod Center!

  118. TurnTwo January 10th, 2008 at 2:32 pm

    CB, way too much. I think IPK, Horne, AJax and Hilligoss prob could have gotten it done, really.

    IMO, the Twins prob targeted Hughes as the one player they wanted over anyone. When the Yankees were hesitant to move him, they prob figured best to move him out of the AL rather than settle on a package of players you dont love and move him to a contender you’ll be playing against for the near future.

  119. fleas January 10th, 2008 at 2:33 pm

    If the Twins make the Mets trade I will be laughing for years to come how Bill over shot his trade power and would wind up with 5 Mets prospects that have not one ALL STAR caliber prospect.

    IF they make the deal Bill should just resign. He should have taken the Hughes deal before Steinbrenner’s deadline..

    Quantity does not equal Quality!

    Mets prospects are Laughable…

    See what you get for asking the world??

    You get 5 players that will NEVER and take that to the bank.. NEVER amount to anything other than mediocre talent.

    WOW. What an idiot Bill Smith is.

  120. Doreen January 10th, 2008 at 2:33 pm

    UGH! Izod Center. Doesn’t get much worse than that, I agree, Rebecca. Doncha think it’ll always be the Meadowlands? I never even really called it Continental Area, though that wasn’t too bad and it was an improvement (politically) over Brendan Byrne Arena.

  121. Doreen January 10th, 2008 at 2:35 pm

    Turn Two -

    But then they got greedy, because the Yankees did put Hughes on the table, and the Twins balked.

  122. Boston Dave January 10th, 2008 at 2:37 pm

    Bronx,

    The Sox fans WANT Santana. as they probably should.

  123. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Save the Three Musketeers! January 10th, 2008 at 2:37 pm

    Yeah, it’s always the Meadowlands for me.

  124. raymagnetic January 10th, 2008 at 2:38 pm

    ” 5 Mets prospects that have not one ALL STAR caliber prospect.”

    You’d be laughing for no reason. From all accounts I’ve heard Fernando Martinez is an all-star caliber talent. He is the Mets version of Jose Tabata and many people think he’s better than Tabata.

  125. TurnTwo January 10th, 2008 at 2:42 pm

    Doreen, absolutely. When Hughes was put on the table, they shouldve just taken it and been happy.

    Hughes was about as sure a thing as was going to be offered, and they overplayed their hand, and now he’s left with a bunch of mid-level prospects that may or may not even make it to the MLB club, let alone produce at a high level.

    i will say though that for the Twins, I’d prob agree that i’d rather take my chances on 5 players already producing at a reasonable clip in the minor league level vs. 2 draft picks.

  126. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Save the Three Musketeers! January 10th, 2008 at 2:42 pm

    raymagnetic: Doesn’t change that the Mets still need an actual pitching staff, though.

    Who’s their equivalent of Phil Hughes? Joba Chamberlain? Ian Kennedy?

  127. Fernando Alejandro January 10th, 2008 at 2:42 pm

    I was the first to show up at the spring training complex. They threw me out.

  128. GreenBeret7 January 10th, 2008 at 2:44 pm

    i miss bernie
    January 10th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
    as a new citizen of philadelphia i was researching the former location of the baker bowl (home to the phillies from 1880’s-1930’s (and the site of bambino’s last mlb home run). the park had an upsloping outfield to raise it over some train tracks and a 63′fence in right field 280′ from home (the monstah is only 37′)
    for years it had a huge sign on it that read, “the Phillies use LIFEBOY soap” (letters were over 25′ high).
    someone snuck into the park with paint one night and added “and they still stink!”

    ______________________________________________
    Not trying to sharp shoot you, but, Ruth’s last home run was in Pittsburgh, the day he hit 3 out of the park, including the last one over the right field roof at Forbes. He retired 5 days later after a game in Philadelphia.

  129. CB January 10th, 2008 at 2:44 pm

    TurnTwo,

    I know that’s alot but I think the Yankee system can absorb the loss of all of those players.

    I also think that’s a deal that other teams would be hard pressed to match.

    The yankee’s organizational advantage is depth in right handed pitching.

    I’d be OK with them overpaying in depth and holding onto the potentially special players (Hughes).

    I agree the twins probably really wanted hughes but didn’t think much of melky. That puts all the risk in the deal, from their perspective, on Hughes and I can understand them being concerned.

    That said, it seems that the Twins have now finally realized that they aren’t going to get this deal done on their terms and will have to accept the best offer given to them.

    I’d be willing to give 5-6 good to very good players to get Santana. At this point a Yankee package headed up by Kennedy and Horne that also includes Melky and 2-3 other good players would perhaps be the Twins best option.

    The system could absorb the loss of Kennedy, Horne, and Marquez. The yankees already have young pitching in their system right now that could make up for those losses given that you’re getting back Santana.

    I like Melky but the yankees can afford to give him up to get back Santana. As the third player in the deal, the Twins may find him more valuable. Alberto Gonzalez’s loss can also be absorbed given that Jeter is probably not moving from SS over the next two years.

  130. fleas January 10th, 2008 at 2:44 pm

    I agree, if the Mets package is real.. than why have the Yankees offered “Franchise Package” and nothing else? Pure speculation of course..

    A) This is the final hoorah for the Twins.. to see who bites
    b) They desperately want to ship Santana out of the AL (NO WAY, not when it comes to talent vs no talent in the trade)
    c) They actually like the Mets deal (Nope, doubt that too)
    d) Bill overshot himself and now has to settle (More likely)
    e) Santana spoke up and said, “I prefer the Mets” (maybe)

    If we don’t at least offer a package other than Hughes, than I will be really disappointed. We can put together the BEST package even without Hughes.. frankly, I that what I want! (Keep Hughes).

    If the Twins have said, “Hughes plus.. or nothing” Well, looks like they are actually going to get nothing from the Mets..

    Unreal, if this is not posturing like I said in “see a)” then I am totally baffled and think the mets are about to steal the best pitcher in baseball for nothing more than teenagers who just graduated high school!

    UN-FOCK-ING-REAL.

  131. TurnTwo January 10th, 2008 at 2:44 pm

    from my understanding, FMart is pretty much Tabata, but a slightly better athlete overall. I think Tabata is the better pure hitter, but FMart has a little more speed and has the chance to hit for more power.

    I believe the Mets rushed him up to Binghamton this year, and he sputtered a bit… but i think he also was fighting a wrist injury like Tabata was.

  132. Yazman January 10th, 2008 at 2:44 pm

    Who are some of the best folks who rate top prospects in all of baseball? I apologize but I forget at least one site that’s been noted here.

    It sure would be helpful to be able to say “Fernando Martinez is ranked #142 while Tabata is #139″ or whatever the #s are. When folks say “a top-5 prospect from Team X” it doesn’t necessarily mean much without cross-team comparisons.

    Can anyone help?

  133. raymagnetic January 10th, 2008 at 2:46 pm

    Rebecca, that’s the Mets problem, they don’t have any pitching prospects as good as the Yankees prospects.

  134. fleas January 10th, 2008 at 2:48 pm

    Phil went to Legends Field early to make a point. He is the hot topic of trade. Don’t think he has not been talking with the “Hank-a-nator”. He didn’t just go to use the vending machines.. he went to show Hank how much he really does not want to be traded. Who can blame him?

    Legends is 45 minutes from me too.. maybe I will drive there and let Hank no that “seeing in tunnel vision” is the fatal kiss of death.

  135. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Save the Three Musketeers! January 10th, 2008 at 2:52 pm

    Fleas: It’s likely a combination of A and D.

  136. TurnTwo January 10th, 2008 at 2:53 pm

    CB, i dont disagree with you, at all.

    I’ve been a proponent of quantity in order to save Hughes, I just think that should it come down to it, I wouldnt have let Hughes be a final deal breaker.

    I would do IPK, Horne, Marquez, Melky, and a 5th player, and IMO, that deal trumps the Mets because of the level of pitching you give them back.

    I also was of the camp that I would toy with a deal built around Robby Cano to save all three: Hughes, Joba, and IPK.

    you could prob do Cano, Marquez and a third player.

  137. jay destro January 10th, 2008 at 2:53 pm

    1. When is this trade ever going to get done, it’s really beyond the point of insanity.
    2. The Twins should just hold on to him at this point.
    C. Bobcat
    *. I wish there were baseball games to watch, I hate winter.

  138. fleas January 10th, 2008 at 2:53 pm

    Fmart????

    Do some research PLEASE!

    F. Martinez Career Minor League Stats
    AVG OBP SLG OPS
    272 .332 .419 751

    As I said LAUGHABLE!!!

    He is also 18 years old!!

    Last year when he was brought up.. he went 3 for 9 ..

    Like I said if the Mets pull this off.. it gives a whole new meaning to “getting fleeced”.

    OMG.. LOL.. what are you people talking about? Stop repeating what your read.. More importantly stop believing everything you read with out facts!

    source: http://www.thebaseballcube.com.....inez.shtml

  139. CB January 10th, 2008 at 2:54 pm

    Fernando Martinez is a very, very good prospect. He is generally considered by most people to be a better prospect than Tabata.

    Most people think that Martinez will hit for more power than Tabata (which is the big question on Tabata).

    Martinez had a good season in double A as a 19 year old – .271 BA and a .700 OPS. Not great. But given his age that’s pretty remarkable.

    But again, he’s years away from the majors and isn’t a 5 tool player. His game is really about his bat.

    Building a deal around a 19 year old outfielder in AA who is coming off Hamate Bone surgery for Santana is very, very risky.

  140. Bronx Liaison January 10th, 2008 at 2:54 pm

    Boston Dave:

    Everyone WANTS to get Santana, but the price is what turns fans off. I would think most Sox fans want to keep Ellsbury and I refuse to believe the Twins would take the Lester package over a Hughes package, so in order to get Johan RSN would have to be willing to part with Jacoby. Just like Yanks fans are sick over giving up Hughes I believe Boston fans would be sick over giving up Jacoby.

    Just an opinion though. My point was that both fanbases would probably be relieved if Santana ended up in Flushing.

  141. hmmm January 10th, 2008 at 2:58 pm

    “A) This is the final hoorah for the Twins.. to see who bites
    b) They desperately want to ship Santana out of the AL (NO WAY, not when it comes to talent vs no talent in the trade)
    c) They actually like the Mets deal (Nope, doubt that too)
    d) Bill overshot himself and now has to settle (More likely)
    e) Santana spoke up and said, “I prefer the Mets” (maybe)”

    f) You are underrating the Mets’ offer (very likely)

  142. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Save the Three Musketeers! January 10th, 2008 at 2:59 pm

    I’m still holding out a slight hope Santana signs with us next year, but I don’t want ti give up any of the big three.

    I wouldn’t be much bothered if Santana ended up in Queens.

  143. KB January 10th, 2008 at 3:00 pm

    Martinez is a higher rated prospect than Tabata. Gomez is more highly rated than Jackson. Obviously, Hughes, IPK are far more highly rated than Mulva and Guerra. But given that the Twins have more young pitching than do outfielders (and they play in park that suits quick, gap hitters)- I would think that landing Gomez and Martinez with two of those pitching prospects is more appealing than getting IPK, Marquez, and one of our OF prospects. Obviously they would prefer Hughes, Marquez, Tabata and a fourth piece- but that’s not ever going to be one the table.

  144. CB January 10th, 2008 at 3:02 pm

    TurnTwo,

    I was very hesitant to give up Hughes. Partly because I didn’t see any other team putting an equal talent into a potential deal (given that Sox weren’t giving up Buccholz).

    From the Yankee perspective, making a trade for Santana that uses Hughes but not their organizational depth makes the trade even more costly because that’s not dealing from a position of strength.

    You can reasonably expect that Kennedy will be a very good major league pitcher but can be replaced internally or through the draft.

    Hughes could be special – those types of pitchers are never, ever easy to replace. That the yankees have two of them right now in Joba and Phil is partly good luck. The angles came very close to drafting phil and didn’t because they thought Jared Weaver was more major league ready. That’s the only reason he lasted until pick 23.

    At this point I would like the yankees to go aggressively after Santana again with a deal based on depth of good talent that has a high probability of making it to the major leagues.

    I would be willing to make a much better offer using that tactic at this point than either of Mets or Sox may be willing to do.

    If it took Kennedy and Horne and 4 other players with a good chance to make it to the majors I would do it.

  145. Clay Bellinger January 10th, 2008 at 3:11 pm

    Josh Phelps just signed a minor league deal with the Cards.

  146. CB January 10th, 2008 at 3:12 pm

    “Gomez is more highly rated than Jackson.”

    It’s a very good point that the Twins strength is young pitching. But at this point they are going to have to take the most talent available.

    If they chose to make a 19 year old outfielder in AA the centerpiece of a deal so be it.

    But the comparison for the Twins isn’t really Gomez and Jackson – its Gomez and Melky.

    Its unclear if Gomez can make enough contact to be a productive major league outfielder. He strikes out a lot for a speed player.

    Melky is a much more definite bet. Gomez also is not a power hitter at all so he doesn’t have some great upside there over melky. The difference is speed – which Gomez has an enormous amount of.

    Also, Gomez may have been rated over Jackson at the beginning of 2007 and even midseason but not now. Not after what Jackson did this past season in Tampa and in Hawaiian winter ball.

    Wait until the new Baseball America and Baseball Prospectus lists come out. Jackson will likely be ahead of Gomez.

    Gomez is definitely much more major league ready but doesn’t have Jackson’s upside.

    The mets were starved for pitching down the stretch – that’s why they collapsed. Humber failed over and over when given a chance.

    Humber is 25. If he couldn’t pitch in the NL I don’t see him faring well in the AL at all next year.

  147. fleas January 10th, 2008 at 3:12 pm

    hmmm, you are so smart. Sorry pal, but I am not underrating the Mets offer nearly as much as you seem to be overating it.

    GO home kid, go play kickball!

    Deolis Guerra:
    http://www.baseballamerica.com.....?id=500610
    AGE: 19, not enough info .. 6 games 4.01 ERA??

    ==============================
    Carlos Gomez:
    http://www.thebaseballcube.com.....ez-1.shtml

    Goto the link, see for yourself… nothing special at all!
    ===============================

    Kevin Mulvey:
    http://www.baseballamerica.com.....?id=453381

    Probably the best prospect: 23 years old in 150+ innings in the minors has a 3.20 ERA
    ========================
    Phil Humber
    http://www.thebaseballcube.com.....mber.shtml

    In 3 games during spring training Phil had a glorious 16.20 ERA .. He is 24 years old.. (career ERA over 4.0) lots os potential here.
    ========================

    Fmart see above previous post

  148. Stephen January 10th, 2008 at 3:14 pm

    Kennedy is projected to be a 4th or 5th starter. Most teams have one of those…hell, the Yanks usually have a rotation full of them! I like him a lot, but he’s expendable in relation of Hughes and Chamberlain.

  149. Yanksrule57 January 10th, 2008 at 3:17 pm

    Regretable Stadium naming rights deals:

    Preparation H Stadium (think of the potential headlines)

    The Tidy Bowl at 1000 Flushes Field (corporate synergy in action)

    Enron Field (actual deal)

  150. mike eff January 10th, 2008 at 3:20 pm

    good luck josh phelps !!

    his stats with the pirates last year:

    batted .351 , .463 on-base percentage and .649 slugging percentage, and did not commit an error in 22 games at first base.

  151. G. Love January 10th, 2008 at 3:20 pm

    If the Mets make that deal, they’re the winners. None of those players are proven major league contributors. They’re all hope in a box.

    Frankly, I’ll be sad to see Johan go somewhere else if that happens. I wanted him on the Yankees. I still do and hope there is still a chance it happens.

    I’m still firmly in the camp that the Yankees need a presence and arm like his in the rotation. He’s the type of presence that years from now we could be saying, “should have made that deal”.

    It’s all well and good that Hughes is working out in Tampa, but I still would trade him in a heartbeat for Johan.

    In a perfect world we’d get to keep Hughes and get Johan, but that apparently isn’t happening.

    I think the Mets will cave and give away the entire the farm. They have to. The public perception is awful right now and they have a gaping hole at the front of their rotation.

    The other thing is the Mets have 2 first round draft picks thanks to Glavine going to ATL. Even if they trade 5 high potential minor leaguers, they are going to have an opportunity to replace 2 of them in the coming draft in the first round.

    In essence, they’d be fools not to make this deal as proposed.

    And on another note, can anyone explain to me why we’re looking at 31 year old Jason Lane when we have players exactly like him already on the roster.

    I don’t understand this whole, “let’s take an OF and convert him to 1b” idea that pervades the Yankees universe.

    If we’ve learned anything since Tino and Donnie left, it’s that 1b defense is an important component to this team.

  152. Clay Bellinger January 10th, 2008 at 3:22 pm

    Pete hates Josh Phelps, he probably wouldn’t give him an interview.

  153. fleas January 10th, 2008 at 3:24 pm

    Phil Humber
    http://www.thebaseballcube.com.....mber.shtml

    In 3 games during spring training Phil had a glorious 16.20 ERA .. He is 24 years old.. (career ERA over 4.0) lots os potential here.

    Fmart see above previous post

  154. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge January 10th, 2008 at 3:24 pm

    Pete didn’t hate Josh Phelps, he hated that people on here were crowning him mvp.

  155. fleas January 10th, 2008 at 3:24 pm

    Kevin Mulvey:
    http://www.baseballamerica.com.....?id=453381

    Probably the best prospect: 23 years old in 150+ innings in the minors has a 3.20 ERA

  156. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Save the Three Musketeers! January 10th, 2008 at 3:28 pm

    Yanksrule: Yeah, that wasn’t the best move the Astros had ever made…

  157. Clay Bellinger January 10th, 2008 at 3:29 pm

    Nobody was crowning Phelps MVP, they just wanted to see him get some AB’s over DM.

  158. Jeff NJ January 10th, 2008 at 3:30 pm

    I went down to Yankees fantasy camp just over a year ago in Nov 06. There were two players there, Phil Hughes and Tyler Clippard. Phil said at the time he had a condo there, this is prior to him ever pitching for the major league club. The kid is committed to the Yankees and luckily for us, extremely talented.

    I for one would be thrilled if the Mets got Johan, they actually need him quite a bit. Let the Mets fans have their fun, that team still is a 3rd place team in the AL.

  159. TurnTwo January 10th, 2008 at 3:31 pm

    it never hurts to build potential depth, or take a flyer on a guy when it costs minimal $$.

    the yankees have no depth in the OF at the AAA level, so if they sign him to a minor league deal, and invite him to spring training, he offers a little flexibility and a little pop for bargain basement value. if he fizzles out in camp, then you can cut him; no harm, no foul.

    i really dont see what the fuss is about re: Jason Lane.

  160. Nick January 10th, 2008 at 3:37 pm

    There’s pressure on Bill Smith to get a deal done before teams make spring training plans for pitching rotations. Most teams don’t want plans disrupted and the not knowing of it all.
    This is the next to last chance for the Twins to get the best possible deal or lose him for draft picks.

  161. Yazman January 10th, 2008 at 3:40 pm

    I’m surprised that more folks here haven’t lobbied for keeping Melky, given the Yanks’ defensive situation in the OF. I think his ceiling is Bernie-level, with a better arm. And he won’t turn 23 until the All Star break.

    At the age of 21/22, he was already almost an average AL OF with a superior arm —

    Out of 42 startling AL OFs, Melky was:

    -#22 in RBIs, better than Damon, G. Matthews, Drew and other $10 million+/yr. OFs

    -#19 in hits, more than Damon, Manny, Drew, Matthews, Wells, Crisp, Swisher

    -#5 in triples

    -#25 in total bases

    Many of his weaknesses are learnable: positioning, plate discipline, etc.

    I’d rather trade IPK + 4 top minor leaguers for Santana. If they are considering this Mets deal, it seems we can offer them better (unless they really want him out of the AL).

    But I say “save Melky!”

  162. mike eff January 10th, 2008 at 3:43 pm

    “January 10th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
    Nobody was crowning Phelps MVP, they just wanted to see him get some AB’s over DM.”

    that is exactly right. plus we all know that pete has certain players he relishes hating on.
    it’s his blog..

  163. Jim PA January 10th, 2008 at 3:44 pm

    I agree about Melky, and he’ll also get stronger with age.

  164. Jim PA January 10th, 2008 at 3:46 pm

    I agree about Melky, and he’ll only get stronger with age.

  165. TurnTwo January 10th, 2008 at 3:46 pm

    so what do we know now?

    1. reports have it that the twins are taking the Mets quantity over quality package.

    2. it’s also been reported now that the Twins dont love Melky as a part of the deal.

    over at RAB, someone brought up the package of IPK, Tabata plus… which i would do.

    IPK, Horne, Tabata, and Marquez? IPK alone is better than any of the three pitchers the Mets are currently offering.

    the Twins would get one MLB ready pitcher, two pitchers about a year away, and our best OF prospect.

  166. i miss bernie January 10th, 2008 at 3:47 pm

    im not breaking my moritorium on ace picthers from the upper midwest but i have to add:
    I LOVE MELKY!

  167. Drive 4-5 January 10th, 2008 at 3:48 pm

    Count me as not happy if the Yanks don’t pull off the Santana trade.

    How protective will the Yanks be of Hughes, Chamberlain and Kennedy? How many innings will they be allowed to pitch.

    If each of them gets 32 starts and are pulled after 100 pitches, you’re looking at 60% of your staff pitching no more than 160-170 ininngs. Exactly where are those other innings going to come from?

    By design, the most pressure will be put on the Yanks biggest weakness, their bullpen.

  168. S.o.S.27 January 10th, 2008 at 3:50 pm

    Turn Two,
    I have been with you in the minority about trading Cano and keeping the big 3 + Horne. With Arod signed and all our offensive output this team is capable of. I would do that and make our pitching that much deeper. Keep in mind, there is always pitching injuries that occur during a season. So if we have IPK or Joba for backup, we wouldnt have to rely on guys like Igawa.BTW Hudson would replace Cano if they made the trade. My decision is that id rather have an all-star pitcher than position player, when you have depth at hitting.

  169. McLovin January 10th, 2008 at 3:52 pm

    WAng our Ace this year…this is gonna be a World Series year or no playoff year no in between.

  170. S.o.S.27 January 10th, 2008 at 3:52 pm

    How can IPK be projected as a 4-5 pitcher if he is being compared to a young Moose? I think he is going to surprise alot of us and out pitch one of the 2. You dont have to throw 98 to be successful. Ask Maddox.

  171. i miss bernie January 10th, 2008 at 3:53 pm

    drive, this is a 5 year kind of question for both teams. you’re right about this year, but that cant be the deciding factor.

  172. TurnTwo January 10th, 2008 at 3:54 pm

    I cant even imagine the uprising on this board if Cano were ever traded, even for Johan.

  173. Yanksrule57 January 10th, 2008 at 3:58 pm

    Turn Two

    I cant even imagine the uprising on this board if Cano were ever traded, even for Johan.

    I would be outraged. I think the world of that kid. Swings like his don’t show up everyday.

  174. CB January 10th, 2008 at 3:58 pm

    Interesting blog update from the Twins beat reporter:

    He’s reporting that Wilpon was initially balking at giving Santana the extension he’s asking for but is now relenting.

    He also mentioned 6 years/ $150 million as Santana possible asking price.

    The yankees have a lot of revenue obviously. But there’s no way to discount making a move for a pitcher if that’s the type of deal it takes to sign him. With the tax the yankees will be on the hook for 6 years/ 200 million for a pitcher who will be 36 at the end of that deal.

    On top of that you lose two cost controlled starting players in melky and hughes. Sign a mike cameron type veteran to replace melky and that’s probably another $15 million per including the tax.

    If Hal Steinbrenner doesn’t want to shell out that much money on top of the prospects I don’t think you can argue with him. Doesn’t look like the sox want to do it either (granted they have less need).

    http://nc.startribune.com/blogs/christensen/?p=458

  175. Blargh January 10th, 2008 at 4:00 pm

    I (still) can’t imagine the Twins wanting Cano (still the money reason, as always); I’ll be flabbergast if Smith takes him and others for Santana

    Quick query: Are there standard definitions for terms like ace/no. 1 pitcher, no. 2 pitcher, no. 3 pitcher, and so on? Or they’re some of those terms that are never settled in stone so they vary from person to person?

  176. Yazman January 10th, 2008 at 4:00 pm

    I agree with you, TurnTwo. If I were Cashman, I’d push on exactly the deal you suggested — and ante up with quantity if necessary.

    IMO, if you keep Hughes, Joba, Melky, Cano and 4-5 of your top-10 prospects and still get Santana, that would be sweet (and it would NOT be abandoning the youth movemement, IMO). But it would mean trading 5 or so really great prospects, and that would hurt. But I’d do it.

  177. McLovin January 10th, 2008 at 4:00 pm

    TurnTwo-

    If Cano or Wang was traded for Beckett last year yes people would have been mad.But nobody would care because we would have won the World series last year with Beckett on our team and won the division.

    No World Series by WAng and his 199 hits in 199 innings or even Pettitte who was good in the Regular season and post season and but not great.Beckett would have been bad in 2006 but we would have Won this year.

  178. Yazman January 10th, 2008 at 4:03 pm

    At this point, I stand pat rather than trade Hughes, Melky or Cano (or Joba). I think all the other prospects are easier to replace (even if losing 5 of them would be painful).

  179. Drive 4-5 January 10th, 2008 at 4:04 pm

    I miss bernie,

    I just wish the Yanks had decided to phase in their 30% season ticket price increase on me over 5 years. As far as I’m concerned, we’re paying the same if the payroll is $200mil or $150mil.

    As long as we’re paying the frieght, I want to see the best team possible on the field in ’08. With the Yanks farm system as deep as it is, it’s not like this deal is going to destroy it.

    As far as the money goes, I won’t hear of it. We’re going to pay with Santana or without him.

  180. McLovin January 10th, 2008 at 4:04 pm

    Whats all this on the money.You are paying only $13 million on Santana thats a steal.GIambi and HGH Pettitte will be gone next year and Mussina thats $50 million alone.Get Jason Lane to play the outfield.What a .270 avg 5 home runs is hard to find.

  181. cano January 10th, 2008 at 4:04 pm

    Whatever happens: Do not trade Cano. He has the potential to be a number 3 hitter, besides hes gonna get money in arbitration, the twins want to keep it very low cost

  182. hmmm January 10th, 2008 at 4:04 pm

    “Josh Phelps just signed a minor league deal with the Cards.”

    Pete posts a sarcastic comment about Phelps in 3…2….1….

  183. hmmm January 10th, 2008 at 4:07 pm

    “And on another note, can anyone explain to me why we’re looking at 31 year old Jason Lane when we have players exactly like him already on the roster. ”

    because they wouldn’t be adding him to the roster? it would be a minor league deal. he can hang out in AAA and serve as injury insurance.

    seems like a pretty smart idea to me.

  184. Clay Bellinger January 10th, 2008 at 4:08 pm

    Maybe Phelps was signed to push Pujols, haha.

  185. hmmm January 10th, 2008 at 4:13 pm

    “If Cano or Wang was traded for Beckett last year yes people would have been mad.But nobody would care because we would have won the World series last year with Beckett on our team and won the division.”

    right, except the Marlins wanted Cano AND Wang.

  186. Dave January 10th, 2008 at 4:17 pm

    The yankees brass not wanting to sign santana due to monetary concerns makes me want to throw up. How can they increase ticket prices every yr, sell out pretty much every home game for the last three yrs and break all new attendance records, raise the parking price to an average of 28 dollars per car next yr and open a new stadium with more luxury boxes and less seats to make the drastic incr in prices seem ok and say they dont have the money to pay for the best pitcher in baseball.

    I understand the idea that we didnt want to trade for Johan. I realize the yanks dont want to give up hughes and prospects. I didnt even really want that trade to go thru in the back of my mind. But to now say that we cant afford the contract santana is going to want … How can they say that? We arent idiots- we know how much money this organization is raking in each yr. He is the best pitcher in the entire sport and probably the best pitcher of the generation. Say u dont want him cuz u dont want to give up prospects or say u dont weant to invest that kind of money in a pitcher that can fall apart cuz of the innings on his arm, but dont u dare say wqe cant afford him. Im sick just reading that garbage! We can get ten santanas if we wanted to. We invested 40 mil in pavano, gave moose a ridiculous two yr extension, pro-rated roger 20 million, gave Mo who can break down any yr now a HUGE sum and we cant fork it up for Johan Santana! This is absolute trash!

  187. Matthew Cohen January 10th, 2008 at 4:17 pm

    I love FMart but the rest of those prospects have a lot of question marks.

    Would anyone here trade Hughes and Melky for that group? I wouldn’t.

  188. Bronxbyte January 10th, 2008 at 4:19 pm

    One year ago today, Wil Nieves and Josh Phelps were packing their gear and making plans to head to Tampa and try to win a spot on the roster. And they did.
    Joba Chamberlain, Ian Kennedy, and Shelley Duncan were packing to go to the minor league complex. They were not invitees to the major league workouts.
    Jose Molina and Wilson Betemit were packing to go to the Angel and Dodger camps.
    Carl Pavano had no idea that he’d be the opening day pitcher at the Stadium. He won’t be opening for damned sure in 2008. He just won’t be seen at all.

  189. CB January 10th, 2008 at 4:20 pm

    I don’t think the issue is simply the money for Santana.

    It’s the money and the talent. This is exactly what Hank said:

    “But what it comes down to right now is giving up a lot (in a trade) and then having to do the big contract, as well. If (Santana) was just a free agent, we could just go ahead and do it. There’s a big difference this way. We have to sign him as if he’s a free agent, plus you have to give up major talent. That’s a tall order.”

    http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....ana-2.html

  190. Dave January 10th, 2008 at 4:21 pm

    Not to mention the ridiculous money blown on Giambi, Moose, Pavano and Farnsworthrthless are all coming off the books at the end of the season. What is that – 50 plus million per season? That is enough to cover Johan and a whole lot more. And Pettitte may not come back next yr either – that would be even more money to work with. This money argument makes absolutely no sense.

  191. Joe Go (Cano fan) January 10th, 2008 at 4:23 pm

    If we would have traded Cano and Wang last year to the RedSox for Beckett we would have won the WS. Yea right. You see Beckett as the best in the world that he would have givin us 19 wins plus the runs and bats Cano’s worth. Maybe lets offer Cano Wang Joba IPK and a prospect for Beckett this year I’m SURE the RedSox will take it they might not make us give up Joba for him. Cause with him we’re a for sure WS team.And because Cano is just another regular player another alberto Gonzalez. YEAH RIGHT.

  192. Dave January 10th, 2008 at 4:24 pm

    Im sorry but the mets package doesnt really seem nearly as good as Hughes and melky alone – where is the major-league ready talent in the mets offer. Are any of these guys ready to start and will any of them even be halfway decent in the majors? Im serious – i dont know.

  193. Doreen January 10th, 2008 at 4:24 pm

    CB -

    That’s exactly right. It’s like paying twice. And I know Santana is an exceptional talent, BUT…

    Anyway, it’s why the absolute best scenario for the Yankees is if the Twins turn down all offers, settle for the draft picks and we go into the free agent free-for-all after the season.

  194. i miss bernie January 10th, 2008 at 4:28 pm

    checking in on the minneapolis start tribune’s blog it seems like the twins fans are split about whether the yanks or sox deal is better, but its pretty unanimous that the mets deal is a no go unless reyes is involved. except for a bunch of mets troll trying to convince them.

  195. Dave January 10th, 2008 at 4:28 pm

    i would trade cano for Johan. Trading hitting for pitching is the best deals in the world for the yanks these days. Solid hitters are all over the market every off season – when is a solid pitcher ever a free agent? Just because yankee fans are obsessed with those that come out of our farm system and completely over-value them doesnt mean they arent worth looking to trade.

  196. raymagnetic January 10th, 2008 at 4:30 pm

    Am I crazy in thinking that if Sabathia makes it to free agency that’s who the Yankees should target? He’s two years younger than Santana and has been trending upwards and will be cheaper than Santana as well. Is he any more of a health risk than Santana? Granted Sabathia is big but he’s no bigger than David Wells. He’s listed at 6’7 250lbs which isn’t that big at all actually although I know he’s probably more like 275lbs which still isn’t all that big for a 6’7 guy.

  197. hmmm January 10th, 2008 at 4:31 pm

    “That’s exactly right. It’s like paying twice.”

    exactly, i don’t get what is so complicated about this.

    Hank came RIGHT OUT and said (with the risk of tampering) if Johan were a Free Agent, the Yankees would sign him.

    so can people please stop saying the Yankees “don’t want to sign Santana because of the money”?

    it’s like cognitive dissonance, some people just keep hearing what they want to hear.

    it’s not the money, it’s the money plus PREMIUM TALENT.

  198. CB January 10th, 2008 at 4:34 pm

    Doreen,

    Agreed. Money and talent are both resources.

    However this goes, I personally think that it’s a positive to see the Yankees approach this situation in a rational fashion where they aren’t just making knee-jerk decisions.

    At the winter meetings they could have gotten this done for Hughes and Kennedy.

    Many people wanted it done then regardless of what was required for prospects.

    The yankees were right for waiting. The price has definitely come down. Kennedy no longer is in the discussion and the Twins are now leaking news that they won’t be getting their ideal package.

    I think it bodes well for the yankee organization moving forward that they are weighing all of the costs and benefits for making this move.

    If Santana were a free agent the yankees would not walk away over money. I hope he does reach the market next year.

    Unfortunately that’s not the case right now and I don’t think you can just say that paying twice for Santana with talent and money is a must do.

    The Mets are definitely the most desperate team in this chase. They also have the least to offer. This deal will be very costly for them either in money or talent or both.

    Santana will really be able to hold them over a barrel. If that trade gets done how could the Mets possibly afford to walk away during the 3 day negotiating window? That would be tough to do after the way their season ended.

  199. Mike in SF January 10th, 2008 at 4:35 pm

    Ray,

    I was at a party with CC about a week ago. He’s huge. I asked him about the Yanks next year. Granted, if its a likely scenario he wouldn’t tell me. But based on his response, I’m looking at what else is out there.

  200. Geo Diego January 10th, 2008 at 4:36 pm

    I wouldn’t trade Cano for Santana. Santana wants too much and he’d probably have a higher ERA in the AL East. Trading Hughes Cabrera and a prospect or two is something to think about but adding Cano instead of them is not good for the team. Even if Santana ERA is under 3.00 he still is only one out of 5 pitchers. And saying that A-rod is all the offense we need is far from the truth.

  201. Doreen January 10th, 2008 at 4:41 pm

    I think one of the reasons I’ll be able to easily accept whatever happens regarding Santana is precisely because it’s been a thoughtful process, with a lot of discussion within the Yankee system. They’re not being frivolous. Of course, it’s nice to know that the Yankees don’t feel desperate and it’s obvious they are not being taken for fools. I happen to think they made the best offer way back during the winter meetings and the Twins should have scooped it up. I’m glad the Yankees have stuck to their guns, confident that they made the best offer, and then it’s up to the Twins.

  202. S.o.S.27 January 10th, 2008 at 4:41 pm

    hmmm
    January 10th, 2008 at 4:31 pm
    “That’s exactly right. It’s like paying twice.”

    exactly, i don’t get what is so complicated about this.

    Hank came RIGHT OUT and said (with the risk of tampering) if Johan were a Free Agent, the Yankees would sign him.

    so can people please stop saying the Yankees “don’t want to sign Santana because of the money”?

    it’s like cognitive dissonance, some people just keep hearing what they want to hear.

    it’s not the money, it’s the money plus PREMIUM TALENT.

    I think most peoples fear is that if they sign him than you will have to pay $50 for a hot dog. Man thank god im in the west coast.

  203. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge January 10th, 2008 at 4:44 pm

    McLovin

    Pettitte didn’t have a great post season? I don’t know what game you were watching. But when he left it was 1-0. If not for the midges we would have won that game 1-0 and Pettitte would have been a hero.

  204. baseball expert January 10th, 2008 at 4:48 pm

    i like the person who said the mets-yankees games are “just bragging rights” uhhh isnt that all fans get out of sports? i guess this person actually thinks hes on the field playing AHHAHAAH!

  205. Victor the Predictor January 10th, 2008 at 4:49 pm

    All the proposed names used in a Santana deal will prove to the Yankees that they did not make a mistake in keeping them.

  206. IPK Fan January 10th, 2008 at 4:53 pm

    Let’s just let the Mets have Santana we’ll only have to face him 2 times a year in the season. Maybe another 2 in the postseason.

  207. baseball expert January 10th, 2008 at 4:53 pm

    better hope the mets dont win the world series this year! then it would be 1.) redsox 2.) mets 3.) yankees (hasnt won since 2000- pathetic)

    if the yankees dont win the world series this year cashman should be let go. ok he rebuilt the farm system GREAT! now when do they start winning championships?????

  208. Mark January 10th, 2008 at 5:00 pm

    This is going to be such a relief for the Yankees, that they do not have to push for Santana since the Mets are trading their farm for him. The rotation for thbe Red Sox has a lot of ifs in it, and I am one not to believe that Beckett can repeat his regular season performance since this was the first time in his career where he was great. He could not pitch against the yanks last year with a 5 ERA. The rest of the rotation is untrusting with Schilling and Wakefield getting older, Matsuzaka getting adjusted to a new type of rotation, and Clay Bucholtz, and Jon Lester having little experience.

  209. Blargh January 10th, 2008 at 5:00 pm

    So you’re saying that the team is superior enough to every other team in the league such that it’s more likely than not that they’ll win the WS? And thus failure will be a disappointment of reasonable expectaitons?
    I’m psyched, but man, I’m not that psyched. I give Detroit and Boston their fair odds at winning this upcoming season, as it is right now.

  210. Mark January 10th, 2008 at 5:01 pm

    *Beckett being great in the regular season.

  211. Mark January 10th, 2008 at 5:02 pm

    *Beckett being great in the regular season. Meant to include regular season.

  212. baseball expert January 10th, 2008 at 5:04 pm

    1. boston
    2. tigers
    3. -REST OF AL-

    great job building the farm system, cashman. now the major league roster is crap. I really liked how his best move this offseason is signing a scrub reliever. yah, thanks for that.

  213. Mrs. Pavano January 10th, 2008 at 5:07 pm

    I noticed that Yankee fans didn’t give a damn that my son’s birthday was 2 days ago. He was born on 1/08/76.

  214. hmmm January 10th, 2008 at 5:08 pm

    “i like the person who said the mets-yankees games are “just bragging rights” uhhh isnt that all fans get out of sports? i guess this person actually thinks hes on the field playing AHHAHAAH!”

    umm, i meant “bragging rights” as opposed to a game that has actual playoff implications.

    in other words, if Santana goes to the Tigers or Mariners or Angels or Red Sox, it’s going to be much harder for the Yankees to make the playoffs.

    if he goes to the Mets, it doesn’t really matter except for “bragging rights” since they probably won’t face him more than once next year.

    and while i’m not really one to criticize someone for making a smartass comment, maybe you should think first. this really wasn’t that hard of a concept.

  215. hmmm January 10th, 2008 at 5:09 pm

    “great job building the farm system, cashman. now the major league roster is crap. I really liked how his best move this offseason is signing a scrub reliever. yah, thanks for that.”

    you’re an idiot.

  216. i miss bernie January 10th, 2008 at 5:09 pm

    mark, you are dismissing the red sox pitching way to causally. Beckett is DAMN good, Dice K likely to be much better in his 2nd year, Buckholtz is considered by many to be better than Hughes and Lester is no slouch. Remember, these guys just won the WS and have 2 young and improving guys.
    its one thing to root for your team, but your analysis defies what the vast majority of baseball people expect from the Sox.

  217. raymagnetic January 10th, 2008 at 5:12 pm

    “great job building the farm system, cashman. now the major league roster is crap.”

    You are joking, right?

  218. Mis-Quoted January 10th, 2008 at 5:16 pm

    Top Ten Things Goose Gossage Can Say Now That He’s Been Elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame presented by Rich “Goose” Gossage – On The David Letterman Show
    Top Ten

    “Today’s contracts are ridiculous — the most I made in a season: 800 bucks”

    “I traded my 1978 ‘Rolaids Reliever of the Year’ award for a banjo”

    “My real name is Goose Gossagestein”

    “This facial hair makes me look cool. Letterman’s made him look like a drifter”

    “I’m retired, but I still wear a cup”

    “In 1979, I recorded the novelty single, ‘Disco Goose’”

    “Now maybe my neighbor will shut up about his bowling trophies”

    “To psych myself up for a game, I’d listen to the soundtrack of ‘My Fair Lady’”

    “After recording the last out of the 1978 Yankees-Red Sox playoff, I kissed Bucky Dent on the mouth”

    “The only thing I ever tested positive for was being a flame-throwin’ sum’bitch”

  219. i miss bernie January 10th, 2008 at 5:17 pm

    baseball moron, how old are you?
    do u think making the playoffs every year is a birthright?
    are you offended that they have gone a whole 4 years without going to the WS?
    and arent you the one that said getting santana would rank the mets (an NL non playoff team) better than the Yankees?
    there should be a way to strip you of your screenname

  220. li January 10th, 2008 at 5:21 pm

    Joba also has a place in FL

  221. mel January 10th, 2008 at 5:21 pm

    baseball expert,

    Why trade for a mule, when you have a team of thoroughbreds?

    Mama Pavano,

    Don’t despair! Someone wished him Happy Birthday a couple of days ago.

  222. S.o.S.27 January 10th, 2008 at 5:25 pm

    hmmm
    January 10th, 2008 at 5:09 pm
    “great job building the farm system, cashman. now the major league roster is crap. I really liked how his best move this offseason is signing a scrub reliever. yah, thanks for that.”

    you’re an idiot.

    Not the same here without you bro.Freekin comedy. Keep em coming. Hopefully from here on out we have more read.

  223. jay destro January 10th, 2008 at 5:27 pm

    the goose on dave’s show clip is great.

  224. S.o.S.27 January 10th, 2008 at 5:42 pm

    mel
    January 10th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
    baseball expert,

    Why trade for a mule, when you have a team of thoroughbreds?

    Good to see you friend. Too busy fro the blog i see.
    I take it Hal is in charge from that your quote.

  225. mel January 10th, 2008 at 5:52 pm

    S.o.S.

    Busy, yes, but not too busy to check it out here. Lots of relief here today regarding the prospects. Amazing how far that pendulum can swing, huh?

    You know that Hal’s the hotelier and Hank’s the horsey dude, right?

    But, I really meant that the big moves were retaining the best 3B, closer, catcher, and SP on the market.

  226. Old Yanks Fan January 10th, 2008 at 5:57 pm

    from Steve at WasWatching:
    It was an interview with Dave Eiland, talking about Phil Hughes, Joba Chamberlain and Ian Kennedy. On Hughes, Eiland said that there’s no level of success that Phil could have on a baseball field that would surprise him. That’s pretty much as good as a compliment can get. However, it terms of assessing the three pitchers now, Eiland put Kennedy ahead of Chamberlain and Hughes. Further, he stated that Ian Kennedy had command of four pitches now – whereas Chamberlain has command of three and Hughes (according to Eiland) only has command of ‘two to two and a half’ (which he then qualified by saying Phil’s change-up is coming along…hence the ‘half’).
    ———————————————–
    Dave Eiland stated in a different article that while Horne did not have near the command of our top 3, that he had better raw ‘stuff’ then IPK and the best fastball of all 3. He feels if they can get his command under control, that Horne could be a #3 in MLB.

    Prospects are always risky, although Phil is past being a prospect. I personally would rather take a chance that 2008 may disappoint then lose any of our top rated kids.

    We may have a lot of money cominh off the books soon, but we need to replace all of these guys. Melky’s production would cost $8-$10m/yr to replaces.

    Abreu could be gone but reproducing his numbers will cost $13m+. When looking at JD’s and Mar’s numbers when healthy, they will cost more then $13m each to replace.

    The only way to break the cycle of having the waining years of expensive players is to use our kids. IPK, Horne, AJax and Tabata all have a decent shot of making the bigs

    Carlos Beltran, at $15m/yr, is woth more WinShares then Santana, who will cost well ove $20m/yr.

    If we trade Phil and 2 other quality kids, and take on Santana’s salary, will will still need a SP and 1 or 2 OFers over the next few years.

    We stuck with Jeter, Mariano, Posada, Bernie and Pettitte and they turned into the core of our dynasty years. I think we HAVE to stick with our kids and see if we can do it again. Remember that neither Cano or Wang were highly though of prospects.

  227. S.o.S.27 January 10th, 2008 at 5:58 pm

    You know that Hal’s the hotelier and Hank’s the horsey dude, right?

    But, I really meant that the big moves were retaining the best 3B, closer, catcher, and SP on the market.

    Damn got them mixed up.I guess its not as funny now is it.
    Ahh now I get what you meant. Well good talkin anyways. Now ill stand in the corner for the rest of the day.

  228. McLovin January 10th, 2008 at 6:00 pm

    Don’t know if this has been reported.But Mike from Mike and the Maddogg is saying he called the Mets and they said that Reyes is still being asked from the Twins.THeir is so many rumors it’s hard to know if 75% of everything is even true.

  229. Drive 4-5 January 10th, 2008 at 6:35 pm

    We need the definitive report on where the Santana situation currently is.

    Calling bobcat…bobcat….bobcat, come out, come out, wherever you are…

  230. Old Yanks Fan January 10th, 2008 at 6:54 pm

    Random thoughts:
    … Looking at the ‘Great Beckett’ and his deal.
    Add up the WinShares of the players they traded for Beckett and the WinShares Beckett produces. Don’t forget last year.
    … Wang has a BETTER career ERA+ then Beckett.
    … Cano will cost $10m/yr soon. Minn. ain’t interested.
    … It is possible that the Yankees will play baseball in 2009 and maybe, maybe even in 2010. If this does indeed happen, it should be considered when evaluating a Santana deal (and what the ‘cost’ will be to replace Melky and the other prospects, and how valueable Phil and said prospects will be in 2010).
    … From what Eiland says, Horne is better then most here give him credit for. Maybe some research on Horne is needed.
    … ALL out pitching prospects are valuable. We have an entire BP and part of an SP needed in a year or 2.
    … The Sox would steal Santana, but the won’t pay even close to a fair trade price for him. And they shouldn’t. And we shouldn’t. Santana will cost $20m+/yr for a long term contract. To give up any degree of talent in a trade is to pay twice for him.
    … You do NOT need an Ace to win the WS (see Yankees 1996-2000)
    … The Post Season, BY DEFINITION, is a very, very small sample size (5 game series?). Any team can get hot and win in the PS (see St.Louis, 2006). It can even be decided by bad bounces, bad umpiring calls, fans in the seats interfering with a player and swarms of bugs.
    … When talking about trades, people should consider things like WinShares, RunsCreated and RunsSaved. This is because our the goal is to WIN, and the 2 biggest factors in Winning is Creating Runs and Saving Runs.
    … Yesterday, Bill James and other fine baseman minds were asked to create 2 new Sabermetric stats. One was called “BUT HE’s Johan Santana!!!!” and the other was “YOU NEED an Ace to win in the PostSeason”. They are STILL laughing, but promised to give an answer when they are done (around Friday, mid-day)
    … Brian Cashman took a crap today that knows more about baseball then 99%+ of people here. You should keep that in mind.

    Jennifer IS a midget (although I like heels).
    I am bald and Fat.
    I think we should do dinner sometime.

  231. vrsce January 10th, 2008 at 7:14 pm

    Drive 4-5

    Why do you think that Bobcat has any inside information? He was completely wrong (although very interesting) when the trade issue first surfaced.

  232. Drive 4-5 January 10th, 2008 at 7:22 pm

    bobcat was wrong on Santana,but it was the most fun on this blog since the last day of the regular season. There aint been lot of fun since concerning the Yanks.

  233. vrsce January 10th, 2008 at 7:25 pm

    Don’t you think the Clemen’s witch hunt is fun?

  234. jessica January 10th, 2008 at 7:28 pm

    To McLovin

    “If Cano or Wang was traded for Beckett last year yes people would have been mad.But nobody would care because we would have won the World series last year with Beckett on our team and won the division”

    Yankees need to trade Wang and Cano to get Beckett and Lowell who won’t be the same hitter in the Yankees stadium when they have a third baseman called A-Rod. Sometimes trade just don’t work out that way.

    You can’t just replace player A with player B and say Yankees would have won world series in 2007. Winning a baseball game is a combination of everything, such as offense,defense,starting pitchers,bullpen,coach staff,luck,chemistry,opponents and in-game tactics,etc.. Wang certainly is the big reason for Yankees not winning it all in 2007 season, but he is not the only reason.

    Did you pay attention on Yankees games 2006 season? If Yankees have Beckett and Lowell in 2006 instead of Wang and Cano, they would miss playoff in 2006 before thinking about winning it all in 2007. Why? Forget about all product Cano put on since come back from DL that year. Yankees scored two runs or less in 8 games when Wang started in 2006, but Yankees record is 4-4 under that situation. If Beckett pitched in these 8 games, Yankees probably would go 0-8 based on performance of Beckett in 2006.

  235. jessica January 10th, 2008 at 7:35 pm

    Not even bother to mention those five-games sweep in Fanway Park at late August in 2006 season when Wang won one and Beckett lost one. There is another 2 games in standard.

    Thinking about what we have and appreciating their efforts they gave to us. Don’t just see the bad things. There is something else except winning when it come down to root for a team. Enjoy the whole process and efforts when watching baseball games.

  236. jessica January 10th, 2008 at 7:45 pm

    I know Santana is unbelievable pitcher now,but no one know the future. Don’t get me wrong. I like to have Santana as well, but not at any price. Santana’s success so far is based on his fantastic changeup when his fastball run around 92-94.But, If he somehow drop 2 mph on his fastball which range from 90-92 instead of 92-94, Santana won’t be the same pitcher. The best example is Randy Johnson. When Randy Johnson lost velocity on his fastball, he become totally different pitcher.

  237. mike eff January 10th, 2008 at 7:57 pm

    i thought it was pretty embarrassing watching the way people here fawned over that phony (bobcat)

  238. Jennifer - Save Phil Hughes! January 10th, 2008 at 8:08 pm

    Why are you calling him a phony? Please explain.

  239. RVA Yanks January 10th, 2008 at 8:14 pm

    The best situation possible is we don’t trade for Santana and we sign him as a free agent next year.

    I’d rather keep The Phranchise and see what the kid’s got. For all we know Santana could come to New York and completely lay an egg or get blasted by AL East hitting. It’s cheaper and Phil has more of an upside to him, and hopefully he won’t take long to mold into a great pitcher.

    I want to see the products of our farm system now that it’s been better than ever for the past few years. Don’t you?

  240. RVA Yanks January 10th, 2008 at 8:15 pm

    I mean didn’t anyone else get giddy watching Phil in his relief appearance in the ALDS?

  241. Jonathan Westman January 10th, 2008 at 9:13 pm

    I think Santana will age well. Randy Johnson relied purely on power. Santana changes speeds with his change, slider and cutter. He can still be great at 88-90. Why is everyone assuming he’ll lose velocity anytime soon. He’s only 29. Everyone seems to think that Santana is an injury waiting to happen even though he has been one of the most durable pitchers in the game over the course of his career. I’d be more worried about a guy like Peavy who has an awkward motion and puts a ton of stress on his arm. I’m really not sure whether I want NYY to trade for Johan, but right now I’m of the opinion that Hank should pull the trigger. If they don’t do this deal, I commend Hank for finally showing some restraint and listening to Cashman.

  242. CrooksnCastles January 11th, 2008 at 1:16 pm

    We just need to keep buying time until he’s traded to a non-contender then let go to free agency. Then we’ll swoop in with prospects still in hand.


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