Pinch hitting: My Baseball Bias
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- January
- 13
January is usually a slow month for baseball news. So we’ve lined up a series of guest bloggers to entertain you. Next up is Jason from My Baseball Bias.
Jason is originally from Northwest Pennsylvania and currently lives in Salt Lake City. He idolizes Don Mattingly, worships Phil Rizzuto and makes his living as a professional classical singer. He can be found singing here every Sunday at 1:00 p.m. ET.
Here is his post:
O CAPTAIN! my Captain! our fearful trip is done.
The above verse is the first line of Walt Whitman’s O CAPTAIN! my Captain!, one of my favorite poems. I’m always reminded of it when I see Derek Jeter labor for a ball in the hole my Aunt Carolyn could have gloved. With spring training a month a way, Jeter’s defensive has been keeping me awake at night. I know my concern right now should be with the immaturity of the starting rotation or lack of a true set-up man, but I believe his defense will start hurting the team more than it already has.
I’m sure you are all aware of the criticism Jeter has received over the years for his three Gold Glove awards and the lengths sabermetricians go to discredit his defensive play. And I agree, most of it is warranted, even though he occasionally makes a play that leaves me shaking my head in disbelief. Those spectacular plays aside, however, I wonder how much the organization has discussed life without Jeter at shortstop? Moreover, wouldn’t it be wise to kindly suggest now a position switch beginning in 2009?
Of course there are many obstacles in even uttering the phrase “position switch” to a first-ballot Hall of Famer. I imagine a conversation on the subject wouldn’t go over well with someone who believes he can still play the position. It’s not like he suffers from a bum shoulder like the one that forced Robin Yount into the outfield and he’s relatively healthy other than a knee that occasionally acts up. But aren’t captains supposed to sacrifice their pride and egos for the sake of their team? Switching positions would even add to his aura as the ultimate team player, the consummate professional.
Jeter has played 1,825 games at shortstop and will turn 34 this coming June. Once he hits the 2,000 game mark (sometime during the ’09 season), he’ll join the likes of Luis Aparicio, Ozzie Smith, Omar Vizquel, Alan Trammel, Cal Ripken, Jr. and a few other greats at the position. Needless to say, it’s a meaningful milestone. But what if Jeter refuses to move? Should the Yankees allow him stay at shortstop and continue to hurt the team defensively? If they do, I think it would be a serious mistake.
The probable departure of Bobby Abreu from right field via free agency and the uncertainty at first base in 2009 provide two possible relocation spots for Jeter at the perfect time. I think a move to right field rather than first would be more likely given the Yankees need for a power-hitting corner infielder. It won’t be easy replacing Jeter at shortstop, but it can be done with a little creativity.
Jeter’s defensive play is not why he’s so valuable to the Yankees. His leadership, offensive consistency and clutch hitting are what people admire and will eventually get him elected to the Hall of Fame.
I’m sorry Captain, but your fearful trip at shortstop is done.
This entry was posted
on Sunday, January 13th, 2008 at 12:41 am by Peter Abraham.
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Jason thanks for the great post. i fully agree. good point there
Interesting post.
Once again, who do you replace him with? Please don’t say Alex.
No internal options, no free agents, nobody to trade for. Just have to wait it out until a solution presents itself (most likely someone from the farm).
Until then, we have to rely on our 900+ runs per year.
Jeter’s defense is pretty awful at an improtant defensive position, but if you move Jeter, you lose offensive value. It’s a lot easier to find a RF who can rake than a SS who can hit. Despite this, I totally agree with you. Jeter needs to swallow his pride and make a switch. I think 1st base would suit him best because he is adept at scooping grounders and he would be very nimble for a 1B. THe only problem is finding an adequate SS. The Yankees good hitting prospects, Jackson and Tabata are corner outfielders and we already have a boatload of corner outfielders, so moving Jeter to first by 2009 makes sense.
Nice post. How’s Duncan and/or Betemets defense at their positions. Jeter might move away from shortstop but I don’t think It’s going to happen in 09 more likely HE thinks hard about it before 2010.
Thanks for the comments everyone. Mel, I’m not sure with who or how you replace Jeter at SS. Alberto Gonzalez is the closest thing we have to a “defensive wizard” in the system, but he still needs to show something with the bat. If he continues to develop he might be just the answer the Yankees are looking for.
I was on the Jeter to replace Bernie in CF bandwagon about 3 years ago, but it didn’t catch on.
I really…don’t think he’s bad at all. Actually, I think he’s really good.
Is there any statistical analysis of Jeter’s fielding available on the web? I agree his range is limited, but I didn’t know it was all that bad.
Em,
May I suggest checking out David Pinto’s Probabilistic Model of Range over at www.baseballmusings.com? Jeter ranks second to last on his list.
Below is a video link to an explanation of PMR by David:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQza3BYuWFM
Philo,
If you take a look at Jeter’s fielding statistics over at Baseball-reference.com, you’ll see that his fielding percentage and range factor(lgRFg) have been in decline since 2005.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/j/jeterde01.shtml
Uhh going back in the hole (to his right) is actually his strength. Ranging far to his left is his problem.
Nice job J:
At some point, every franchise shortstop must make the move to a less demanding position. I agree with a previous comment that Jeter probably will not make the move until 2010.
Wherever DJ ends up, it will be supremely strange to see him tossing grounders to the rest of the infield or throwing long toss in the outfield.
Though I agree Jeter’s range is not Jose Reyes’ I also think many sabermatricians can go a little overboard. I respect their studies and value the information, but as a diehard Yankees fan, how many times last season do you remember yelling at your TV set “Woulda won that game if Jeter got to that grounder up the middle.”
I am not devaluing defense from your shortstop because those missed groundballs add up to runs, but when the pressure is on in a game, I still want the ball hit to Jeter more than any other position player.
Range factor isn’t very accurate because it doesn’t count for how hard the balls are being hit, length of infield grass, etc. Lets be honest, over the last couple of years we have had several ground ball pitchers. Plus the fact that the pitching staff has sucked so a lot of these hits are being hit pretty damn hard making them hard to reach. Jeter is good at going to his right and coming in on the ball. Going to his left is his problem. So you’re the about him going back in the hole is a bit off.
I agree with the post that eventually he will have to move and more likely to the outfield – he has a knack for catching fly balls, probably the best short stop in the game at it. I do no think this switch will be coming in 2009; I would say the switch is more prevalent for the 2010 season.
too bad we don’t have an option any where in the minors. Unless you want Alberto Gonzalez, who has a great glove but no bat, manning SS for the Yankees.
NJ, there are systems that do take into account the trajectory of the ball such as UZR, and whatever system the Fielding Bible uses. I remember seeing near last ratings for Jeter using UZR and the Fielding Bible rates him as the worst defensive shortstop of the past three years.
Bronx, if you aren’t frustrated with Jeter not getting to balls up the middle, then you haven’t been paying attention. He almost never gets a ball that he has to leave his feet for up the middle.
Why do you WANT the ball be to hit to him? He’s worse defensively than Miguel Tejada and even Julio Lugo. He was bad at everything last year, not just range but also errors.
NJ, there are defensive stats that take the trajectory of the ball into account (UZR and I’m pretty sure the Fielding Bible as well). And every one I’ve seen rates Jeter last or near last as well. It’s not the stats that are the issue, it’s Jeter’s defense.
ONE WORD = IDIOT
Another issue is that much of Jeter’s value comes from the fact that he’s putting up his offensive numbers at SS, typically a weak offensive position. By the time he gets moved to 1B or RF, his offense will be mediocre for the position. The Yankees would have to make up for that lost offense somehow.
LOL, can we please stop beating a deadhorse?!
What about a flip of Jeter and Cano?
He’ll be at SS till at least 2010. like it or not. i can actually still live with him at SS so w/e.
as for our replacements… ablerto gonzalez showed some signs of improvement with the stick in winterball:
34 G, 43 for 126 (.341), 24 R, 7 2B, 2 3B, 4 HR, 16 RBI, 9 BB, 9 K,
but we have infielders down the pipeline in low classes that will be ready in 2-3 years to step in for an aging jeter…namely Carmen Angelini
I saw Mante, Tresh and Kubek make the move from SS to the OF, so can Jeter.
Very nice post. You were linked by BBTF, which is quite an honor. http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/newsstand/discussion/lohud_on_jeter_organization_should_suggest_a_position_change/
Anyway, according to MGL’s latest Ultimate Zone Ratings, Jeter cost the Yankees 27 runs in the field in 2007, compared to an average fielder. This was due to his limited range, which should continue to shrink as he ages. According to John Dewan’s +/- system, Jeter cost the Yankees 35 runs vs. an average fielder. Justin Inaz’s fielding translations have Jeter at 28 runs below average. He is the worst fielder at his position according to all 3 systems, and one of the very worst defenders in the entire league. The only significant fielding system that has Jeter around average is Baseball Prospectus’ FRAA and FRAR, where he is only 3 runs worse than the average fielder. Both of those systems are pretty worthless, though, compared to the first 3.
Jeter to CF probably should have happened a long time ago. A move to RF is probably a possibility, but 1B is probably the most likely destination. While it is more difficult to find a league average SS than it is to find a league average 1B, his incompetence in the field outweighs this consideration, by a wide margin. Chien-Ming Wang, with a league average SS, would be a significantly better pitcher.
Alberto Gonzalez does not project as having the bat to play SS everyday. Carmen Angelini is too far away to project as a MLB player. The only solution is through a trade or through FA. The 2009 FA class includes Orlando Cabrera, Rafael Furcal, Adam Everett and possibly Edgar Renteria if DET declines his option (unlikely). Any of those players could be locked up before then with an extension, of course.
It’s also interesting to note that Cano rates as one of the best fielders in the league in UZR, +/-, and JInaz. He saved about 6-15 more runs in 2007 than the average 2B. So there is not something unique about Yankee stadium causing Jeter to look bad. He can’t go to his left and the spectacular plays to his right are routine for players like Jose Reyes or Troy Tulowitzki.
seems like a rip-off from this article—title and all
http://www.wcbs880.com/pages/1202522.php?
Eh, I don’t know if it’s a “rip off.” Very similar, but these are the types of articles being written in regards to Jeter (by many people), so it’s hard to judge.
Either way, he brings up a good point. I can’t tell you how many times I saw a ball hit up the middle (sort of) only to see Jeter “attempt” to get it (when a better defensive ss could have clearly made the play).
All in all, it doesn’t matter. Jeter is Jeter, he can hit better than anyone you know and will remain a SS until 2010 (at least). Only then will we be able to question a move.
The Yankees will never move Jeter until he simply cannot play the position anymore (physically), so we’ll have to see how that works. DH would be the only position he can play.
I’m not on the Jeter’s defense sucks bandwagon. Sorry.
Years ago I was sceptical regarding the Jeter is a poor defensive shortstop, but have since, because of the overwhelming body of evidence, been convinced that this is certainly true.
A good point, as a poster above states, though, is that much of Jeter’s value comes because he hits well in a less offensive position.
It seems Jeter’s aging bat, and lack of power would be a negative at a typical power position such as 1b or RF.
Also, it seems that many hope Texieria will be the 1b in 2009.
Moving to center field, which was the push a few years ago, makes more sense, but the Yankees seem to now have better options (potentially) there as well (Melky, AJax).
I know this is “sacrilegious” to suggest, but what about flip flopping A-Rod and Jeter at 3b and ss?
Good Morning
Im not about to move Jeter until he says he wants to.
Just saw this while trolling around the Transactions for MLB.
1-4-08 Philadelphia Phillies release LHP Matt Smith.
That makes 2 of the 4 players traded for Abreu one from their system.(C.J.Henry).
Perhaps a minor league contract and invite to ST for Matt from the Yankees???
That Abreu deal is looking better and better.
It doesn’t end well for popular Yankee shortstops. Scooter got hell from teammates initially for replacing the popular Frank Crosetti. But fate was predictably symmetrical as Scooter was unceremoniously dumped for Enos Slaughter.
I agree with Harpo, except for the flip flop with A-Rod. Rod seems too big now (less quick, flexible) to play SS. And with that new contract, A-Rod doesn’t have to move to accommodate Jeter a second time. Looks like Jeter either dies at SS or he goes to 1st base, maybe before 2010.
*gone from their system
It’s nice to speculate about where they can move Jeter in a year, but remember, 1b is going to be locked up with Posada in two years. With 3b and 2b filled, the only real option will be outfield. Unless….can he catch?
Nevermind.
Wow I feel weird talking about moving Jeter, he has been there for so long. But hey, it had to happened someday.
O CAPTAIN! my Captain!...was also an integral line from the movie “Dead Poet’s Society” w/Robin Williams. Great movie!
Excellent post that highlights an area of concern that while it doesn’t take center stage in the many debates on here is there lurking in the background.
The transition from Torre to Girardi should be helpful as one can only imagine how tortured Torre would have been about having to approach the delicate subject of a change of positions with his surrogate son DJ.
I see him as a better fit in left field sort of in a Roy White mold. Roy was not a big guy with a big stick but he was serviceable and made some great plays there also as I can imagine DJ doing as well.
I just don’t picture him having the arm for RF or the build or 1B.
Trade Mats or Damon for some relief pitching and insert DJ into that mix of LF and occasional DH.
Championships and sentimental attachments are mutually exclusive.
Given his competitive nature, Jeter should be the first to recognize that he has to move.
i dont know about fielding stats, i never felt they were all that accurate. everybody metions how jeter gives more offense than the average ss, which obviously offsets some of his lack of range.
what i SEE is that he doesnt get to many balls to his left, but makes up for it by getting alot of balls behind him, in short center and left and behind Arod (who cant seem to get anything behind him.) Also, with the contract they gave posada, you’d have to assume he’s GOT TO go to 1B to make it work.
I’m find with jeter at SS for this year and next (dont see any other choices anyway) then we’ll see where we are.
Jason- Very well done! Excellent post, gr8 topic and well written.
The Yanks have a pretty decent shortstop on their roster.He stands about 20 feet to Jete’s right and is named Alex Rodriguez.
For those interested, watch Outside The Lines, this sunday morning at 9:30 AM, EST with Rusty Hardin. Keep in mind that because of the length of the interview, come was edited, but, here is the complete transcript.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3193663
I would be more concerned about Posada’s ability or lack of it to stop balls into the dirt. The end to that doesn’t appear anywhere near on the horizon either. Lets not forget the 2 pass balls in the midge allowing Cleveland to score.
thats a great post, the overwhelming statistics that are released each year back this up, it’s not an anti-jeter thing – it is what it is
i don’t think he has any intention of moving and i get the feeling hank/cash and co would never ask him to move for fear of backlash or embarrassing him
thats the wrong move – 2009 does seem like a good time for the move before this gets ugly – if i remember correctly ripken didnt like being moved to 3rd and it caused problems in baltimore
ThatWasMe, there’s always a chance somebody might check the facts of your recollection and discover that there were 2 wild pitches and no passed balls in that inning. Posada’s passed ball came in the 10th inning when no runs scored.
i think jason has thrown a grenade into our sunday morning. but nice job on not playing it safe. it should be lively discussion.
first of all, until they put a gps chip on a fielder and in the ball,fielding metrics like dewan’s fielding bible are based on subjective ratings.
every ball put in play is judged slow,medium,or hard hit, where it was hit, and whether it was a ground ball or fly ball. think about this. every ball in play is judged by a human being as slow,medium ,or hard hit. someone does this all day or night long. if a ball to the same spot is judged hard hit instead of medium hit, it can be a black mark on the fielder.
it doesn’t take many such judgement calls to change a fielder +20 0r -20.
the person judging the hardness of hit balls knows who the fielder is unlike a gps chip which wouldn’t. thus the subjective nature of the fielding bible.
who has this job all day long of measuring the hardness of hit balls? i actually don’t know ,but i would think they are unpaid interns of dewan. they are likely advocates of sabermetrics. i would guess they don’t see much sunlight and they see a lot of computer or video screens.
i would also say that whatever bias they have , if any, would likely come out when they are judging how hard a ball is hit. it only takes judging a ball from one speed to another to create a plus or minus for the fielder.
if they already don’t like the fielder, it is easy to judge balls hit in away that proves their bias. or vice versa. jeter may very well be slow to his left, but if a ball that is hit to his left is judged hard hit instead of medium hit by a red sox fan who loves sabermetrics and is a intern in john dewan’s basement with pale white skin( almost all sabermetricians are white) caused by not seeing the light of day, i’m not going to pay much attention to that assessment.
do i think people like john dewan, bill james, rob neyer, and keith law are biased against the yankees? noooooooo! do you?
i think that if jeter was as bad as dewan says( and he goes out of his way to say and “prove” it) then there is no way jeter would have been given the gold gloves by managers and coaches of other teams. i understand that there are sometiimes some occasional strange gold gloves given but three gold gloves? not likely.
i see jeter in left field when he finally does make the move because of age, though he could play first with no problem. it would be a nice gesture on jeter’s part to start taking some balls in the outfield and first base, but i don’t think we’re going to see it soon.
actually, we may see gps chips on players and in baseballs before we see jeter making a position switch, and then the objective results may say he doesn’t need to switch.
GreenBeret7
I would wager that those pass balls listed as wild pitches allowing Sizemore into position then ultimately to score could have blocked by a good defensive catcher like either Brad Ausmus or Pudge.
Posada is a great hitter, but he is also the worst Yankee catcher at keeping balls in the dirt in front of him I have see in my over 50 years following the Bombers.I will admit he has improved some, but still allows far too many pitches to get by him.
i’ve always felt that the yanks CF and LF can play a little farther back knowing that jeter’s gonna cover all the pop flies behind the infield. do these stats reflect any of that?
i used to be alot more down on posada’s defense, certainly he doesnt smother balls worth a crap but his throwing out runners has vastly improved the last few years IMO, thanks to tony pena’s help and Posada’s working hard at it.
ThatWasMe, those were 95-97 MPH pitches, that left little to no reaction time. A slider at that speed an d hitting the dirt tends to change directions. If you want to say that Posada’s not the best at blocking pitches in the dirt, say it, but, there’s no reason to distort the facts intentionally or unintentionally.
I can live with Jeter’s defense for a few more years. There are other defensive lapses with this team that concern me more.
There are options. The 1st base question gets answered IF the Yankees go full bore after Mark Teixeira in November. If they don’t succeed, then Jeter and Posada see time at the position beginning at some point of 2009. If a good shortstop (Michael Young ?) becomes available then terrific. Otherwise move A-Rod to SS and get a good 3rd baseman.
If Jeter can prove that his abysmal defense in 2007 was the result of his knee injury and return to his marginally below average form, fine. If not, he needs to prove that he truly cares more about winning that his pride and volunteer to change positions in 2009, because he really hurt the team in the field last year.
re: those 2 WP in the midgee game; strange to see you defend these statistical analyses and then say the official scorer got these 2 plays wrong. id have to say that my memory’s not great but i thought they were both WP’s myself.
Jason – nice job.
Two things to consider:
1. Jeter’s power is almost zip these days:
http://www.waswatching.com/archives/2007/12/cheap_lucky_yan.html
I’m not sure that even the Yanks could carry that lack of pop in the OF.
2. For those who question the bad side of Jeter’s D, check out some of the stats here:
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/measuring-defense-for-players-back-to-1956/
GreenBeret7,
He has his mit out of position when balls pass, he tries to slap down onto balls into the dirt instead of trying to block or catch them. He is converted 2nd baseman and I give him an “A” for his effort, but that being said he is not a good glove man.
I have seen him let far too many balls pass by. Watch Pudge, there is a reason he has won more Gold Gloves than any player in history, and in second in with the most Gold Gloves, another great defensive catcher, Johnny Bench, they will be never be threatened by Jorge. Sorry, we had three better defensive catchers on the 61 team than Posada, Blanchard, Howard and Berra.
There were a few sportswriters at the time that stated Posada beared some responsibility for those “Midge Game” passballs. I agree, he should have had at least one of them.
twm, you’re right, posadas not as good as pudge or bench. guess we should release him then.
and while we’re at it, Arod’s not the cleanup hitter Gehrig was…..
ThatWasMe, you lost it when you included Johnny Blanchard as a good defensive catcher. If he had played in 1973, he would have been a DH. Loved Blanchard’s attitude and bat, but Piazza was a better defensive catcher than Blanchard.
i miss bernie,
I’m certainly not saying we should release him. But lets be honest, Posada like Varitek for Boston, are not great catchers. But in an era where there are so few great catchers in the game, they fit our needs. Posda is a great hitter, no doubt, but he is not on a plateau with past greats who also were great defensive catchers. Recents who come to mind, Fisk, Bench and Thurman Munson.
As far as Ivan Rodriguez goes, there’s also a reason that for all those years in Texas and other places, pitchers complained about him only calling for fast balls when runners were on base…mainly so he wouldn’t look bad. He also had a tendency to loaf on passed balls and wild pitches.
GreenBeret7
True, but my point was Blanchard was better then Posada blocking balls into the dirt.
GreenBaret7
The records speak for themselves, I believe Pudge has 14 gold gloves, I also believe he has won in both leagues. No one is close.
twm
you’re comparing the guy to some of the best defensive catchers who ever played the game. the reality of baseball is that you work with what’s available. the mets have title hopes and they spent the winter trying to decide between la duca, snieder and some guy the ended up releasing, THATs the reality of catchers today. and you’re just dismissing his offense as ‘nice’.
twm
you seem to be expecting that every yankee should be not only the best overall at his pos. but also the best at every aspect of his position. as well as compare well with the best who ever played the position. that is rediculous.
I stand corrected, Pudge has 13 GGs, all from the AL.
i love bernie,
Simply stated that I am more concerned about Posada’s defense than Jeters.
Thurman Munson was a real favorite of mine, but, if you look at the numbers, they were worse than Posada’s. Posada’s fielding percentage (.992) was one point above the league average, Munson 3 points below (.982). Rodriguez, by the way is at .991 and league average is .991. All it tells me is that Posada more than holds his own.
Anthony,
It’s a nice idea, but Cano is big already and still growing; he’s not cut out to play short. 2B is different.
ok but would you plese tell me this; taking the dollars out of it, where does posada rank among current mlb catchers overall (offense & defense)?
i love bernie,
I did not dismiss Posada’s offense as “just nice”. Go back and read my posts, I have stated he is a great hitter and I also said said for the current era he is a good fit for our team. I think he has a good arm, calls a good game, however is terrible at pass balls.
Jason –
Classical music? I am honestly impressed.
You posted a very interesting subject today. Gonna have lots of people in heated discussion.
I am in the camp that doesn’t think Jeter’s defense is as bad as a lot of people seem to be saying. From my point of view, I didn’t notice the “past a diving Jeter” quite so much as when I actively started looking for it due to the rising chorus of “Jeter must switch” over the last 2 seasons. There is a tendency to jump on the bandwagon.
Not that I think Jeter is the best fielding shortstop by far. He’s good, sometimes very good, sometimes less. A lot of his errors this past season seemed to come earlier in the year, but at year’s end, his total was only 4 above his career seasonal average. I know there is more to fielding that simply error counts – the balls a player doesn’t get to, etc. I just don’t think he’s as bad as some say.
twm, with every player, you have to take the good with the bad and judge the overall. complaining about how Arod cant catch pop ups is accurate but what are you gonna do? posada is terrible at balls in the dirt but among the league leaders in throwing out runners (and gets no help from the pitching staff who rarely if ever shorten up thier strides)
i love bernie
Offensively Posada has to rank at the top of MLB in recent years, however as a catcher in the AL defensively he is behind Bengi Molina, Victor Martinez, Pudge in the NL Pat Metheny, Russell Martin and Brad Aumus, to name a few.
In 155 games caught, Blanchard had 13 errors and 18 passed balls. .982 FA against a league average of .987. He wasn’t a good catcher.
Folks,
I have a really dumb off-topic question about the new stadium (I could find the answer on the net but someone here must know…)
What happens to Yankees Stadium once the new stadium is finished? (Sorry, I can’t call it “Old Yankee Stadium just yet). Will it be used for minor league games?
Please don’t tll me there is a wrecking ball involved…
twm so what is your overall ranking of posada (offense and defense together)?
I love bernie
I think I have said that in saying that Posada is a good fit in the current era where the game has few great catchers available.
But, my original point was made in the context of this thread. I am not as concerned about Jeter’s defense as much as I would be about Posada’s. Leading to all the point counter-point.
I think you have a good point that Jeter may not be a serviceable defensive shortstop in a few years but I think there are a lot of other positions in dire need of an upgrade. For one Posada is winding down defensively. He still calls a great game but those knees are getting weaker and weaker (watch him try to run the bases, oof). Also the Damon/Matsui combo in left field is troubling to me. Damon couldn’t throw David Wells out at third and Matsui is getting worse at tracking balls down. Since his wrist injury he has become more tentative in the field in terms of making sliding/diving catches to prevent injury.
And the most glaring hole of all: first base. Who do we put there: Duncan? Giambi (ugh)? Betimit? None of these guys are good defensively (I don’t even think Betimit is a first baseman.) I don’t know much about the farm system except the bigger names they talk about and who I will eventually see in spring training but I hope that help is coming in that corner.
i miss bernie
I will tell you that on my team, if I had to make a choice, I would prefer a great defensive catcher over a great offensive catcher.
I feel that the catcher postion above all others is the most inportant postion on the field that requires great defense, and that includes the ability to being able to stop/block balls into the dirt.
” All it tells me is that Posada more than holds his own.”
i agree totally. on the other side, he does get lazy sometimes and doesn’t use his body to block balls in the dirt. a good catcher at blocking balls should be able to block most balls without a mitt. the chest is used at the right downward angle and it takes good footwork to do this. it wouldn’t hurt posada to practice drills doing this more. they use soft balls to do it.
it also wouldn’t hurt to give him a breather more often by always having a good defensive back up catcher who can hit a little that they aren’t afraid to put in there. posada caught too many innings last year. if his legs were fresher, maybe he’d be more active with his body behind the plate.
jimbo….got some bad news for you….
the yankees have talked very unspecifically about keeping parts of the old stadium. at first they talkeda about keeping parts of the stands and the field, but that was when they were first proposing the new park, and trying to avoid any possble fan backlash like has greeted every attempt to replace fenway. since the groundbreaking, i have seen achetect’s drawings showing a plaza there, no stands, no grass.
i myself proposed before the plans for the new park came out, buiding the new stadium right next to, and attached to the old one, so that they could keep the old one for occasional use (opening day, old timer’s day, etc.) while still being able to use the new stadium’s locker rooms, training facilities, etc. and tying the levels of the 2 stadiums together to allow people to use the bathrooms, concession stands, etc. of the new park.
now before anyone tells me im crazy because of the cost, how many people would pay say $25 to watch a post season game on a jumbotron in the old park, when they can’t get tickets to the new one? add in the concessions and parking revenue and i think i could come up with the maintenance costs.
twm,
ok its a vitallly important position to the hopes of the team, i agree. now how many rings did bench have? pudge? fisk?
i miss bernie
Based on their individual abilities, those three you named are first round Hall of Fame catchers and could have won on the same Yankee teams that Posada did.
i miss bernie
January 13th, 2008 at 10:07 am
twm,
ok its a vitallly important position to the hopes of the team, i agree. now how many rings did bench have? pudge? fisk?
bernie misser,
Thanks—so there are no definite plans as yet for the House That Ruth Built?
Or are you say the wrecking ball is ready to swing?
i miss bernie –
But what if, and it’s a big if, the Yankees go into a downturn talent wise. Admittedly, it does not look like that will happen. Or what if the economy gets so bad that people can no longer afford to justify even a single day of luxury at the ballpark?
I was looking at pictures of the stadium last night during a game from the pre-dynasty years, ‘94 and ‘95. The stands were a stark contrast to what you see today.
If that ever happens, it would never be practical to maintain 2 stadia, let alone one.
But, I do understand the sentiment. I also looked at pictures of the old Comiskey being demolished and it left a chill, and all I could think of was this will be Yankee Stadium after this season. It made me cry, just a little.
ok now we’re in agreement, the best catchers in recent history ‘could have’ done as good as posada did for the yankees. case setteled, we have a GREAT catcher who is not good at stopping balls in the dirt.
doreen, when that happens, you knock down the old park. pretty simple!
also if people cant afford the luxury boxes, they got MUCH bigger problems…
i miss bernie
We Agree!
“we have a GREAT catcher who is not good at stopping balls in the dirt.”
you got my vote.
Knock down the old ballpark and replace it with as many trees, playgrounds, and playing fields you can. The people who live in the Bronx have lost out on recreation opportunities big time and deserve better or at least equal replacement.
Range zone is so arbitrary. Jeter can improve. I see his main problem in the field as not planting his feet when he throws. His form is bad. And he loves to throw on the run.
Jeter is far fromt he best but he’s does the job, though last year was bas
Randy, I can agree that Posada can get “lazy” behind the plate, but, in particular, last year had to be the toughest of his career. 27 pitchers and more than 14 of them rookies and 5 others he’d never caught. That had to beat him done. Posada’s never going to be Johnny Bench, but, he’s probab’y the best leader on that team. I think, if he wants to, could end up managing this team. He never complains, never blames the pitchers for bad selection or getting crossed up, which given the amount of pitchers NYY uses, is a lot. Others may block better, others may throw better, others may call better games, and others may hit better for average or power, but nobody does all of those things as well as Posada. The only thing he doesn’t do is run the bases well.
probably
I Miss Bernie – What an excellent idea about keeping the old Stadium. They could also promote concerts and other non baseball events there. Is is still possible to link them, or is the distance too great?
That Was Me, Green Beret7 – Blanchard was indeed a sub par sub as a catcher, but I really enjoyed his contributions with the bat during my favorite year. In 61 Blanchard not only did a fair amount of subbing, but I also recall him hitting quite a few key pinch hit homers (In fact, I think I recall Mel Allen dubbing him “Johnny on the Spot.”) He caught 48 games and played 15 more in the OF. He had 21 homers in 243 AB (!!), and hit 305. That’s pretty cool for a third string catcher! Of course he was surronded by one of the most potent (non-PED) line ups ever. I loved seeing him swing a bat in the on deck circle whenever the Yanks needed a big hit that year. The guy didn’t seem to know what pressure was – at least not in 61!
Anybody that has been to Legends Field in recent years can attest to the exhausting and creative drills Tony Pena puts the catchers through in spring training.
Even though he leaves no stone unturned, game conditions can have differences in many situations. Fast baserunners with any catcher can cause them to be nervous and hasty with catching fundamentals. Jorge takes the drills very seriously as do all the catchers.
Why does it take forever for my posts to show up?
” I think, if he wants to, could end up managing this team.”
i think he could too. his dad has been a lifelong coach. posada is always there when the games get big. i think one of posada’s strength is that he doesn’t disappear when things get tough. i think because of jeter, posada’s leadership ability has been overlooked.
together, they really are co captains in my mind.
where are the stats proving what a liability he is? fine his stats are in decline but isn’t that the case with any aging player? that doesn’t directly link to the fact that he’s singlehandedly lost games for us, which is much more a concern.
in an already heavily turmoiled off season, we don’t need more problems invented by “fan” bloggers.
Jason,, interesting post regarding Jeter, Thank you.
The key for Jeter is 2008. Anyone objectively looking at Jeter’s fielding in 2007 would have to conclude it was inadequate. Whether due to hampering injuries or age or both, we’ll see how he performs in 2008 to conclude.
If 2008 is the same as 2007 for Jeter fielding wise,, someone has to step up in the organization and ask Jeter to consider a move,, if Jeter doesn’t volunteer. Not an easy situation to handle but that is why they pay the Manager and GM big bucks to handle those delicate situations.
Bottom line for me,, should not be a chief concern now for the GM or Joe, but will have to monitor closely during the season.
uh oh. someone spoke the unspeakable.
h…..What is the ‘unspeakable’
“I respect their studies and value the information, but as a diehard Yankees fan, how many times last season do you remember yelling at your TV set “Woulda won that game if Jeter got to that grounder up the middle.””
uhh, many many times. seriously.
Last year Jeter’s defense was pretty awful. There were a lot of times when balls went by him, that a few years ago he would have gotten to. Now I think he was hampered a lot by his knee injury last year. One can only hope that with a few months of rest that his knee is healed and he can return to a some what respectable ss. If his defensive skills continue to errode, Joe G, Cash etc will have to tell Jeter to put his pride aside and switch postitions.
“What is the ‘unspeakable’”
that Jeter is a poor defensive shortstop.
Jennifer- I agree with you. I think that Jeter’s knee affected him more than he let on. We have to wait to see what happens this seasom.
h….He was in 2007. The eal question is will he be in 2008?
And if so,,to what extent does it impact the team?
If alot, it needs to be acknowledged by NYY, wouldn’t you agree?
“Im not about to move Jeter until he says he wants to.”
why? why are Jeter’s feelings more important than the good of the team?
it’s funny how A-Rod is supposed to be “me first” guy, yet he moved for the inferior SS.
Yank61, you’re correct about Blanchard’s pinch hitting. I think it was around July or somewhere around there, he hit four consecutive home runs in a three game span…including back to back games with pinch hit homers. A 9th inning pinch grand slam and the next day a pinch hit 3 run homer in the 9th inning, both against Boston, and then homering the first two at bats in a game two days later. All three games were wins.
Correction. Just looked at the second homer in Boston and it was a leadoff homer that started a 9th inning rally.
“h….He was in 2007. The eal question is will he be in 2008?
And if so,,to what extent does it impact the team?
If alot, it needs to be acknowledged by NYY, wouldn’t you agree?”
absolutely. i meant “unspeakable” by the NY Media and some of the fans who are in absolute denial about this issue.
as for 2007, i agree he had some nagging injuries and i am optimistic for him to “bounce back” this year. but he is not bouncing back to being above average. a “bounce back” year would just mean bouncing back to merely below average, as he has been for years, vs. the “worst in the league” levels of 2007.
it’s a real issue for the Yankees.
Yank61
Of all the Yankee teams over the years, that one is my favorite. Will there ever be another team with a catching trio to match that of Howard, Berra and Blanchard? All three hit over 20 Hrs that season, not to forget the magic summer of Roger and Mickey. Listening to those night games in bed on a transistor radio.
“where are the stats proving what a liability he is? ”
they are everywhere. you just have to open your eyes.
What does Posada have to do with Jeter? As a SS he has flexibility in that he can move to a number of different positions and probably be an above average defender. There are also options to replace him in FA or even with Alberto Gonzalez if his bat becomes merely below average. Posada’s only option is as a below average defender at 1b with no viable players to replace him at catcher.
hmmm-
how does jeter shape up in your mind as a shortstop when his offense and defense are added together? i think even bill james’ win shares system gives jeter the nod over other almost every other shortstop when everything is added up.
one thing we agree on is that there are better shortstops than jeter, but when does their hitting bring them up to jeter’s level? i don’t think it’s just as simple as that because jeter’s defense is slipping to he needs to move. the offense has to be factored in too.
on another note, you’d think it should help jeter at short that he has two good fielders on his right and left. if any team could cover for jeter, it’d be the yankees with arod and cano.
The Yankees won’t dare move Jeter until Jeter wants to move.
This team is Jeter’s team and recent criticism of his performance as Captain is ridiculous, imo. Though his defense towards the middle is becoming worse, he still makes great plays in the hole. I think Jeter could cheat a little towards the hole because A-Rod covers a good bit of ground out there. I mean, he used to be a gold glove short stop.
Jeter is a legend already, and he’s 33. He may not go down as the best defensive shortstop of all time, that’s for sure. But Jeter has the potential to go down as the best shortstop of all time, offensively, clutch-hitting, and clutch fielding. Jeter is Tom Brady.
Does anyone have more confidence in a player on their team than we do with Derek Jeter? Maybe Ortiz of the Red Sox, but it’s hard to say.
I don’t want Jeter to move positions and have it screw up team chemistry. I will give up 50 more runs if it means that it will not mess up the offensive chemistry and the chemistry of the pitching rotation. There are so many intangibles to a move like this, while it makes sense on paper so, too, did our team look great on paper the past 7 years.
This will happen in 2010 or 2011 and Jeter will move to 3B or Left Field. Most likely 3B.
exactly how will moving Jeter to right field help in getting a power hitting corner outfielder?
Just a bit of the novelty with Jeter wore off when he has such a bad series against Cleveland in the ALDS, though anyone can have a bad series. I have no doubts about his ability to bounce back with another shot at the postseason.
This really is a big day to be a sports fan, not only are there two NFL playoff games, but the Australian Open begins tonight. Sorry, I’m a big tennis fan!
He’s probably still more valuable than any other SS besides Reyes, Rollins, H. Ramirez, Tulowitzki and possibly Renteria. Carlos Guillen and Michael Young are probably close.
That isn’t really relevant, though. What’s relevant is who Jeter would replace at another position and who would replace him at SS.
I think this is all a moot point until there is someone to actually field the position. Not A-Rod, and not Cano, those aren’t real solutions. Maybe Gonzalez should get a few more tries at SS, but I don’t think he’s a real contender at this point what with his below average hitting.
Maybe the Yankees should start looking into a new SS, but until they actually get someone that fits the bill I see no reason to rush Jeter out of the position.
Jorge has good managerial possibilites as shown in his career thus far. He’s a student of the game.
Anybody that can’t see that he’s the assistant captain hasn’t been watching.
You just said Julio Lugo is a better fielder than Derek Jeter. That’s all I need to know about your baseball IQ.
And you said I wasn’t paying attention? well we’ve obviously either got a Red Sox fan here or Julio Lugo’s mother trolling Yankee boards.
Sorry, but, Jeter may have won 3 gold gloves, but, probably only one of them were legitimate, and had Rodriguez remained in Texas, he probably wouldn’t have earned that. Jeter’s defensive glory is based on three plays…the flip play, going face first into the stands against Boston and going back into left center on a pop fly in his first game in the snow of Cleveland in 1996.
That Was Me – Yeah! It was the only year I ever kept a scrap book of newspaper clippings (where did it ever go – where did all the years go, for crying out loud?!) The M & M boys were terrorizing the AL, Whitey Ford (with the help of the little LH screwballer,Luis Arroyo, and probably a fair amount of scuffed balls – I believe Ellie was his accomplice) was having his greatest year ever, they had,what, 5 – 6 guys who hit 20 or more homers, they won 109 games. It goes on and on.
GreenBeret7 – Thank you for bringing back that very memory – especially the 9th inning PH GS in Boston and the four consecutive homers! 5 O’clock lightening was very much the order of the day that year.
Just to put in my worthless two cents, I only get to see a few games a year when I’m back in the States, but I have 4 younger brothers who are huge Yankee fans and see a lot of games. They’re all pretty agreed that Derek has very limited range at SS, and that even if recovered from the knee problems, he’s got to be a candidate for a position change in the very near future. Someone mentioned LF and that sounds like one of the best ideas I’ve heard yet, especially with Posada probably needing to go to IB (unless he’s to become full time DH eventually.) Tresh and Kubek, both SS, easily made the move to LF. I think we all agree that Derek is a better overall athlete than either of those two. Either or both Damon and Matsui will be gone or can possibly DH or share DH themselves.
Well, guys and gals, we’re six hours ahead of you here in France, so I’ll wish you good blogging for the rest of the day and will look forward to reading some more great stuff tomorrow.
“how does jeter shape up in your mind as a shortstop when his offense and defense are added together? i think even bill james’ win shares system gives jeter the nod over other almost every other shortstop when everything is added up.”
up until this season, i would say Jeter was still one of the best SS in the majors, and THE best in some of those seasons. even though he scored low on some of the defensive metrics, the MAGNITUDE of his low rankings was something the yankees could live with as his bat was more than making up for his glove.
but 2007 was different.
that is why i say i am optimistic for him to “bounce back” next season. i am really hoping his showing last year was tied to his injuries.
but like others have said, if 2008 looks like 2007, the Yankees are going to have to start thinking about alternatives.
what people don’t get is that this is NOT an insult to Jeter. not at all. he’ll be 35 in 2009. he is already a 1st ballor HoFer. this has happened countless times to TONS of Hall of Famers playing premium positions. Jeter is not immune to aging. there are very few players in the history of the game who remained elite defensive SS’s past their mid-30’s.
isn’t the last thing that Yankee fans want is the SS equivalent of watching Bernie in CF in his last few years??? i don’t want that. that doesn’t mean i don’t like Jeter.
Lugo is a horrible defensive shortstop there is no debate on that. hope that poster was joking if he said he is better than Jeter
“I will give up 50 more runs if it means that it will not mess up the offensive chemistry and the chemistry of the pitching rotation. ”
that makes sense.
bob from nj-
isn’t carlos guillen a first baseman now? young has his own range problems.
so in the american league jeter is head of the class?
if that’s the case, then it’s not exactly a big problem unless jeter is ,as hmmm says, worse than many of us think.
My pleasure, Yank61. Love reliving those early days of yesteryear when a masked rider….oops…wrong memeory.
If you’re out of the states, I’d suggest getting the baseball package from MLB.com You’ll have no blackout problems, it’s fairly inexpensive, and you can get the spring games, radio streams and mosaic (6 games at once. Nice deal for overseas. About 125 dollars a year, I believe.
One of my favorite Whitman poems as well. At least it was until Dead Poets Society popularized it anyway.
By the way, Jason, your internet site is captivating. All graphics, links, and add-ons make it look more professional than most corporate sites.
As for Jeter. He worries much less than the rotation and the pen. But Bobby Meacham, Wayne Tolleson, Rafael Santana Alvaro Espinoza, and Stanky still haunt me sufficiently to prefer a regressing Jeter, by comparison. The question is does Jeter think his defense is regressing? Something tells me he’d resist the “suggestion” of moving positions.
But if it the autumn of Jeter’s career truly has begun, it only reinforces the importance of winning now and acquiring Santana to do so.
Much continued success with your singing.
yanks61
My mom called a few years back to tell me that she had found my scrapbook on the 61 Yankees in the attic and unfortunately I had pasted all those articles and baseball cards onto the pages rendering them worthless.
“As for Jeter. He worries much less than the rotation and the pen.”
except the 2 are intrinsicly linked.
SG at RLYW did a back of the envelope calculation a few months ago that said that he expected Clemens’ ERA to jump about .40 runs just from switching from Everett to Jeter.
think about that.
then think about why everyone thinks so many pitchers inexplicably fall apart when coming to the Yankees and how it is blamed on not being able to “handle NY”.
to be clear, i am NOT saying this is solely because of Jeter. but the Yankee defense over some of those seasons with Jeter, Soriano, Bernie up the middle…Sheffield, Matsui, Giambi, etc.
much of pitching is defense and much of defense is pitching.
we can’t forget that.
the “dynasty” teams played good defense. Young Jeter and young Bernie. O’Neill was excellent. Tino. Chad Curtis. Brosius. Girardi. Knoblaugh.
HUGE HUGE difference.
“intrinsically”.
gotta head out, good arguments today. have fun.
Morning All.
Lots of good dialogue here, but the more fascinating thing is Jason’s a classically trained singer? That’s awesome.
I love my sports and enjoy the young kids’ musics, but the fine arts is where it’s at. Best of luck, Jason. Maybe you’ll replace Dr. Tynan for the 7th inning stretch at the New Yankee Stadium?
Picks of the day:
Hopeful: SD over IND
Rational: NYG over DAL
My picks for day
Homefield and the favorite trend trend continues
Cowboys and Colts.
Kudos to Jason for tackling a potential powder keg for a topic.
I’m personally in the camp of those who believe that Jeter isn’t such a bad fielder. I can remember a lot more spectacular plays where he has snagged a ball that leaves me with my jaw dropped than I can those that I think he should’ve gotten to but didn’t. To be fair, those mind-blowing plays probably stick in one’s mind a lot easier if they are not looking for the bad ones. And I can certainly admit that I don’t really spend much time actvely looking for flaws in his game.
Regardless, this was a well-written post and a unique, gutsy topic to be chosen. Thanks for the good stuff, Jason.
Julio Lugo ???? Pfffft ! As erratic as it gets and not too loved in Boston. A sulking, overrated, and overpaid shortstop. Boston is stuck with the guy for 3 more years. OUCH !
Bugle-
I like the Pffft!
Jeter is not getting any younger. Year’s down the road will be seeing Carmen Angelini’s glove work in the hole at the new stadium. No offense to Jeter but he has already made his Hall of Fame career and I am anxious to see what Carmen will bring to the Yanks in 3 to 4 years.
The yanks in 2010 will have amajor decision to make.By giving A-Rod 10 yrs they have made this his team.What will they offer Jeter.He will not be worth more then 10mil for max 3yrs.What will Jeter want? Will he accept the fact that this is not his team.Will the Yanks over pay him?What other team will be intersted in a 36yr old singles hitter at the price Jeter is going to want? If the Yanks are smart they should not give him more just because of his name.He is over payed as his and has been over paid the last 3yrs.
tony, with what Jeter contibutes on the field overall, plus what he adds to the cash register in Jeter type items and other things in the way of publicity, he’s more than earning his keep.
“What other team will be intersted in a 36yr old singles hitter at the price Jeter is going to want?”
I think he’ll still retain his ability to hit doubles and put up OPS in the .850 range, just without hitting a lot of homers. That’s not a liability in an OFer. The big question is who replaces him at SS. Orlando Cabrera will be an FA, but I’m sure he’ll want (and get) a deal that is FAR too long given his age.
While I do agree that the Captain’s range is not great and there are some balls he should get but doesn’t, I can’t remember any games last year where I was screaming at my TV “we would have won that game if jeter got that grounder.”
Sorry Jason, but I remember screaming things like “why did you bring that guy in too pitch?” or “why didn’t you bunt or steal in that situation?” or just “THROW STRIKES” a whole lot. Jete’s defense, or lack of range factor there of, is not the reason the yanks have lost too many games over the last 10 years.
Can anyone name me ten games the yanks lost specifically because of Jeter’s defense? What about 100 games they won because of him?
I think we can make legitimate comments on Jeter’s and Posada’s below average defense, without comments like “maybe we should trade him” and “Joe Blow is even worse” and the such. D metrics are flawed, but EVERYONE who really watches and follows the Yanks knows (and can see) that if he isn’t the worst, Jeter is certainly near the bottom. PastaDivingJeter has become a dish we are all too familiar with.
I love Jorge, but all you need to do is watch. He often tries to backhand balls rather then move his body. He has been this way a while. He isn’t terrible, but some very important balls have gotten by him. It’s OK with no one on, but in critical situations he has simply NOT done what good catchers need to do. Move your body. Smother the ball.
ARod has been at 3rd (and not at SS) for 4 years. He’s a little larger and older then he was. Moving him to SS would gain little if anything. The are excellent fielding (albeit no-hit) SS’s around. Leave ARod at 3rd.
When the Sox replaced Nomar with Cabrera, I laughed my ass off. And yet, they did become a better team. Defense is important, and certainly the team who has scored the most, or near the most runs, for the last decade, can sacrifice a little offense for defense at the most critical position.
I suspect, based on how slow Po is and how he moves poorly, that he would not even be adequate at 1st base. My guess would be Piazza bad (just a guess). When he can’t catch, I think we need to plan for him to DH. Let him try 1st as a backup, but he will be worse then Giambi. We could use him at 1st on blowouts, to rest his knees, and rest out REAL 1st baseman.
Jeter has said he is not good on fly balls. Tracking a screaming ‘380 fly ball is way different then tracking a pop-up, which Jetes excels at. Jeters current strengths will translate well to 1st base.
He is 6’3, a fine size.
He is a great cutoff man, with an accurate ‘short distance’ arm, an asset for a 1st baseman.
He can move decently. Not enough range for a SS, but should be better at 1st than a lot of the Giambi types.
He has been fielding bounces and short hops his whole career. He should be able to ‘accept throws’ to first and catch most catchable throws. He is athletic enough to learn the footwork needed to play a decent 1st base.
He is excellent at pop-ups. An asset for a 1st baseman.
He is good charging balls and throwing off balance. An asset for a 1st baseman.
He has a great sense of what is going on around him. This will do little good as an OFer, but is an asset for a 1st baseman and cutoff man.
I believe Jetes could be at least average at 1B, and probably better. The transition should not be hard. But learning to track and take routes to long flys is a totally different skill set. It certainly won’t help an aging player with a bad knee.
Since there are 3 OF positions, we should be able to get an OFer (as a FA) as easily or more easily then any other position. I would make Jetes our first baseman, and instead of getting Tex, put big money behind getting the very best OFer (or 2) and a SS. Although Gonzo MIGHT be able to fill this spot.
ARod, Nomar and Ripken were all big name, iconic shortstops. They all moved. The Yankees must move Jeter. It would be smart to do this while 1st base is still a hole. An infield of ARod, Gonzo, Cano and Jeter could actually be above average on defense, and will still be an above average infield on offense.
He was bobbling that on his way out of bounds and didn’t have control. What a bad call by the refs.
But I suppose when you’re Peyton Manning, your team gets every call that can go your way.
From my point of view, I didn’t notice the “past a diving Jeter” quite so much as when I actively started looking for it due to the rising chorus of “Jeter must switch” over the last 2 seasons. ———————————————————————Doreen, I’m sorry… but with his bad knees last year, he was so bad that he didn’t even get close enough (to balls that an average guy would have had) to make the “pastaDivingJeter” call.
Watch him and other SSs. He has a VERY slow first step. This is why he’s can’t play 3rd, which is a reaction position. Brooks was NOT fast, but had AMAZING, catlike, first step reactions. This is why he caugh so many hard hit liners and was able to make ‘charging in’ plays. ARod is NOT the best, but better then Jeter.
Watch Jeter on TV this year. Watch when a ground ball is hit, and how long it takes Jetes to take his first step. This is why balls that are only 3 steps away get by him. This is also why he plays the deepest SS of anyone… so he has time to at least ‘go in the hole on the outfield grass’, and make the famous jump-throw plays he does. He is also good at charging in and throwing off-balance, which allows him to cheat ‘deep’ at SS.
I watch games with the gang at Bronx Banter. We all love Jetes, but when we watch him, he is sometimes so bad, we just have to laugh (in a sad kind of way).
Jeter is one of th few where your eyes, the metrics and other stats all say the same thing.
I love my daughter to death, but she can’t play SS either.
Thanks to Jason for his provocative post. It certainly has to get you thinking. To me, this was guest blogging at its finest.
I got a kick out of some of the tortured e-mails and postings so appaled that somebody would criticize the great Jeter.
I will say this, Jeter’s defense is fairly low on the list of concerns. At least this year. But as time passes, his lack of range up the middle will become a bigger issue.
WARP accounts for both O and D (I think)
Numbers below are 2005
Jetes was 2nd in WARP, 4th in VORP
Player WARP WARP Rnk VORP VORP Rnk
Jhonny Peralta – 9.2 1 58.2 4
Derek Jeter——8.8 2 66.3 3
Rafael Furcal—8.2 3 49.5 8
Miguel Tejada—7.6 4 70.0 2
Julio Lugo——- 7.0 5 49.9 6
Mike Young——- 6.2 6 80.1 1
David Eckstein – 5.6 7 39.7 10
Bill Hall———5.4 8 42.8 9
Jimmy Rollins—5.1 9 49.9 7
Omar Vizquel—- 5.1 10 19.1 16
Felipe Lopez—- 4.9 11 52.7 5
Jack Wilson——4.6 12 9.6 28
Juan Uribe——- 4.5 13 13.1 23
Jose Reyes——- 3.5 17 30.3 11
Carlos Guillen – 3.3 19 28.8 12
Old Yanks Fan –
The 1st base situation is what it is. Cashman will have a tough time finding a taker for Giambi. Alberto Gonzalez had a good winter season and if he made a strong case to stay this spring, it leaves Giambi virtually useless with a huge contract if the decision were made to put the Captain on 1st base this year.
Jeter won’t make the move this year. I’m sure the Yanks would at least give him the couresy of knowing as soon as the season ends to have the winter to prepare for any changes. He’s owed that much respect. Only if Jeter goes to management at the start of Spring Training this year and requests it, would a move be made.
The person who wrote this post has a great site providing lots of good information. I wish him nothing but the best-
and he’s an artist on top of it. But his topic would be guaranteed to make it onto BBTF-it’s been instant jazz there for years. It will also appeal to ESPN platforms and the Red Sox. And Mr. Pinto (Red Sox, BP), has had apoplexy about Jeter for many years.January 13th, 2008 at 11:21 am
“Im not about to move Jeter until he says he wants to.”
why? why are Jeter’s feelings more important than the good of the team?
it’s funny how A-Rod is supposed to be “me first” guy, yet he moved for the inferior SS.
Jeter is the Captain and been there since 1996 Thats why….not because of his feelings.
A-Rod should be commended for learning another position,that was awesome that he did that….but lets be honest here….he wanted out of TEXAS badly.
Matt – I’m talking 2009 and beyond. But tell Jetes now. Give him a year to cry.
jason – you’re wrong. Jeter is an outstanding shortstop, and you’re a homosexual.
“Jeter is the Captain and been there since 1996 Thats why”
Why should that matter? If it makes the team better, you discuss the change with him. Before it becomes a huge problem. Respect flows both ways
2007 WARP – Shortstops
Note: The list is NOT comprehensive
Had to look up each player 1 at a time:
Rollins——11.5
Tulowitzki – 11.1
HanleyR——10.9
H.Reyes——9.6
OCabrera—- 9.0
M.Young——8.9
D.Jeter——8.8
Peralta——8.3
Renteria—- 7.4
Guillen——7.0
Greene——- 6.2
I would say Derek is in the top 20-25% of shortstops.
Old Yanks Fan –
Fear not. The Captain doesn’t cry any more than previous Yankee captains did – like in NEVER.
Matt – That’s only because THERE’S NO CRYING IN BASEBALL
However, Jeter has other problems coming. This team WILL become ‘ARods Team’. So Jetes can move to 1st AND watch Alex Hijack ‘team ownership’.
Discussing something is one thing
I guess Jeter is scapegoat for today?
“I guess Jeter is scapegoat for today?”
Well, if you want to improve the pitching staff, getting someone who’s not bottom of the league in defense at a premier defensive position would help, wouldn’t it?
Leave Derek Jeter Alone!!!
YOU people should be lucky he even plays for your team
sob
sob
LEAVE Derek Jeter Alone!!!!
IF you have a problem with Derek,then you have problem with me!
Sob sob
Pete,
Thanks for the guest bloggers. I’ve enjoyed the diversity of styles and opinions.
That being said, I really don’t agree with this “Jeter is done” cry I’ve been seeing here today. And for the “Old Yank Fan” (as in senile???) saying that this is ARod’s team, give me a real break! The day will NEVER come when you see ARod dive ANYWHERE for a catch! I appreciate him on the team and his baseball skills are undeniable, but our captain is one who pours his heart and soul and, when it’s needed, his entire body into helping this team win! That’s what sets Derek Jeter apart from most that we’ve seen play this game today. Until someone comes up with some better alternatives than what’s been given here,I’m really not interested in this discussion!
Pitchers and catcher in 32 days!!! Can’t wait!
Jeters’ just the subject, not the scapegoat.
Old Yanks Fan—
Last season, the “PastadivingJeter” refrain was heard often, I do admit that. I still don’t know if I would have noticed it quite as much as if I hadn’t been made aware of this supposed deficit of Jeter during the 2006 post-season.
Let’s hope the knees are better this year. You know he lost a step—he wasn’t able to beat out many DPs or weakly hit ground balls this past season either. So, I guess where I stand is I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for a sub-par season in a couple of areas.
I also concede that at some point a change may have to come, but there are so many things to consider. 1B has already been said to be the future position for Posada; but even that’s if they don’t get Teixeira. And the outfield positions, at least 2 of the 3, have already been claimed for Tabata and Jackson (if everything works out as many would hope). And how many DHs does a team need? So where does Jeter go? Not so simple. I guess I’m in no hurry to contemplate this. I figure it’s one of those things that will work itself out.
I also admit that for any of these players, it’s tough for me to think of them as old!
(I know it’s meant as old relative to professional sports, but still, ya know?)
I don’t understand this whole theory whether it’s “Alex’s team” or “Jeter’s team”, why is it important? I think it’s great that they are both on the SAME team.
Last year it was “Derek, why aren’t you nicer to A-Rod? Why aren’t you guys close anymore?”
This year it’ll be:
1) “Derek with all the Yankees named in the Mitchell Report, should some of the Yankee Championships be questioned?”
2) “Is Roger lying, and did he use steroids?”
3) “Derek, did you ever use steroids or HGH or any PED, including amphetamines?”
4) “Do you think Andy cheated by using HGH?”
5) “Did you cheat on your taxes?”
Somehow I think “Are you giving any thought to moving to 1st base?” will seem like a friendly question by comparison.
from espn:
“McNamee has an agreement with prosecutors that no charges would be filed against him as long as he told the truth to them and Mitchell.”
my translation :
McNamee has an agreement with prosecutors that no charges would be filed against him as long as he told the truth( that they told him to tell) to them and Mitchell.
also from espn:
“McNamee talked with Assistant U.S. Attorney Matthew Parrella and IRS Special Agent Jeff Novitzky about the events that led up to his phone call last week with Clemens, a person familiar with the session told The Associated Press.”
my translation”
McNamee talked with Assistant U.S. Attorney Matthew Parrella and IRS Special Agent Jeff Novitzky ( to get their stories straight) about the events that led up to his phone call last week with Clemens, a person familiar with the session told The Associated Press.
One time I Tivoed a game while listening to the radio on the way home. Jeter made a nice play to get a guy in the hole: Sterling went on and on about how idiots in a basement who criticized Jeter’s defense don’t know what they are talking about. Later that inning, there was a six hopper up the middle towards the shortstop side. Sterlings comments were simply “base hit up the middle”.
We see what we want to see.
That’s weird. What happened to the rest of my comment?
Oh well, I said that Jackson and Tabata, even if both pan out, won’t arrive for a few years yet. And Jeter’s deal is up in 2010. So, they’ll probably only need a parking place for him in 09 and 10, if they’re committed to him at SS for the next two years.
Look… I don’t know if Roger is innocent of guilty. I can’t speculate. However, the way McNamee fingered Clemens
1) The is NO way McNamee can Prove it, unless there is an eye witness.
2) The is NO way Clemens can DIS-Prove it, unless there is an eye witness.
Its the classic HeSaid-HeSaid situation.
So IF McNamee is lying… well… the Feds will never know.
Actually, Roger is in a more difficult position, because if he is lying, there may be &#