On Johan, A-Rod and Johnny
-
- January
- 21
Four interesting stories on the interweb today:
The Twins still want to deal Johan Santana and the Mets looks like the team. I’m almost as tired of this story as I am the Roger Clemens/Brian McNamee soap opera. Just trade the guy.
Alex Rodriguex has taken a player from the University of Miami under his wing. Saw lots of this sort of thing with Robbie and Melky last year.
Johnny Damon is stumping for Rudy Giuliani in Florida. Why would anybody vote based on what a baseball player said?
Old friend Scotty Proctor signed a $1.1 million deal with the Dodgers. There’s earning your money and then there’s earning your money. Good for him.
Peter Gammons mentioned this blog in his latest ESPN.com offering. As a kid who grew up in the 1970s and 80s (before SportsCenter and the web), Peter Gammons was how you found out about baseball. His Sunday notes column in the Globe was my bible. Thanks for the props, Commish.
If for some reason you’ve missed them, please read the guests posts today from Todd Drew and Will Carroll. Both are terrific pieces of writing in far different ways.
This entry was posted
on Monday, January 21st, 2008 at 2:59 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Peter Abraham
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randy l,
Your points are sound in hindsight. However, the injury that Phil incurred is one that is not limited to those under the age of 20. Clemens, Mussina, and Wang all had hamstring issues. Phil himself said that he reached back and put everything he had into that pitch because he wanted to blow the guy away. That’s inexperience and more likely a conditioning issue. Phil said he had the same injury running to first base in high school.
If Phil had elbow, forearm, or shoulder issues then we could say he was rushed according to the Rule of 30 or because he was allowed to go over 90 pitches in his debut.
I will say that having a full year at AAA would’ve been better as far as his pitch efficiency. When he came up he was trying to throw that perfect pitch instead of just pitching. But he’s a smart kid and I think he’s adjusted, as evidenced by his September/October of ‘08.
I guess I’m trying to say that his being rushed indirectly led to his injury but only because it happened in the bigs rather than at AAA. But really it was a freak injury that’s happened to many a pitcher.
We saw many young, good pitchers get pulled late in the year due to arm issues (Juergens (sp?Detroit?) and Buchholz) and we should thank the baseball gods that Phil wasn’t among them. (knock on wood)
Proctor asked for less than the Dodgers offered? How often does that happen?
Wasnt Johnny Damon one of the “Idiots” or something. Just keep him away from the Defense department.
How probable is it that Johnny has absolutely no idea what Rudy Stands for and just thought it would be cool thing to do….
Never mind the title of the book, that was just to play to the Red Sox fan base.
So please, you don’t think he knows what Rudy “stands” for.
How would everyone feel if the Mets got Johan?
Angry that he’s not in pinstripes and they got him for basically rubbish? Who cares? Happy he’s not wearing red socks?
Happy that:
1) He’s not wearing Red Sux
2) He’s not in AL
3) We don’t have to give up Hughes/Kennedy/Melky/Horne/etc.
I hope the Mets get him.
EY-
Amen to that.
Agreed except for hoping the Mets get him. I’d rather he went to the Giants or some team like that. If he goes to the Mets so be it, but we’ll have to deal with Met fans thinking Yankee fans were upset about him going there.
Aww! I’m so voting for Rudy now!
Praying that Johan to the Mets becomes fact very soon. This story won’t go away, it’s like that contractor that will never finish remodeling your bathroom. He just shows up everyday without warning and putters around until 3pm. Then claims he didn’t finish and will be back in the morning. It becomes cyclical, and all you want is your life and your home back…. that is THIS story. Just do the deal and get it over with.
At the risk of sounding like another poster, I recommend a moratorium on all Santana related postings unless:
1. He is actually traded
2. He is photographed with Jessica and Tony at Cabo Vacation, Pt II.
3. He turns up in Hollywood for American Idol Season 7 auditions and sings a rousing version of Nirvana’s “Smells like Teen Spirit”.
I agree with wishing this trade would either happen or not already. I mean enough is enough. Either you want to trade him, in which case you’d lower your crazy asking price. Or you want to keep him, and you’d offer him another extenstion. I almost don’t even want him at this point, even for a song.
If I were Johan, I’d be glad that the Mets were willing to pay me big money in an extension. In spite of their “collapse” they’ve got good young players. Still, the farm system will be completely barren after the Johan trade.
In my dreams Johan will say no to any trade, opting for free agency. Cha-ching! Welcome to the Bronx, Mr. Santana!
lol mel that’s my dream too.
Young talent are hard to come by and take years to develop, but when it comes to cash we do have a lot to burn.
Good. Send Santana to the NL!
Does anybody realize how hard ARod is working out this offseason? Gotta love the guy….
and if besting his MVP 2007 is possible, don’t count it out.
“Praying that Johan to the Mets becomes fact very soon. This story won’t go away, it’s like that contractor that will never finish remodeling your bathroom. He just shows up everyday without warning and putters around until 3pm. Then claims he didn’t finish and will be back in the morning. It becomes cyclical, and all you want is your life and your home back…. that is THIS story. Just do the deal and get it over with.” - Gus G.
HAH!!
Hysterical post!!
Well Done
Pretty good blog post by the dinosaur. He should’ve linked your blog, Pete. I’m convinced it’s the best sports blog based on volume, content, and quality of the posters (thought I’d just throw in that last one). BTW, Pete Abe’s mentioned it before that yes, indeed, the Yankees do read this blog. And Gammons basically said that’s a habit of all the front offices. How cool is that?
For once, I’d like a team official to admit something like, “Well we got this great idea from a Yankee blog or we didn’t make that move based on what we read at the LoHud Yankees Blog”. That would be fun.
The Mets need Johan more than we do. I’d love to see him on the Mets only because that keeps him away from the Sox.
“Your points are sound in hindsight”
mel-
i said all these things before he was injured. wang was also mentioned by tom verducci as being a likely injury risk because of throwing +70 more innings in 2006 than 2005. well he was right that wang was an injury risk.
i think the problem people have with this issue is that being good enough isn’t the same as being strong and durable enough. it becomes an apples and oranges argument. i do know it is a flash point issue.
you do realize that hamstrings are likely to reoccur once a player has one or two. that’s all the more reason to go slow with someone who has hamstring problems. wang and hughes both need to watched a far as hamstrings from this point on.
wang and hughes both need to be watched as far as hamstrings go from this point on.
randy l,
My bad, didn’t realize you said those things before injury.
But can you see my point that it’s false logic to blame the hamstring injury on an early call up?
Maybe someone from the front office will read this blog, and see the interesting 5 man rotation someone had.
Please, do us all a favor and vote democrat in ‘08. Unless you`re in favor of the war and global warming of course.
Sorry about that but I`ve lost all respect for Damon now
I think Santana to the Mets is the best we can hope for. I don’t want to see Boston rip off the Twins or see the Yankees waste their future.
Now that is just silly. I cannot stand Al Gore, but I love Bon Jovi and his music. I didn’t stop going to his concerts or buying his albums becuase he campigned for him.
Now that is just silly. I cannot stand Al Gore, but I love Bon Jovi and his music. I didn’t stop going to his concerts or buying his albums becuase he campigned for him.
I hope he does well for the Yankees but I don’t like him. I haven`t really ever liked him to be honest. As for Gore, can I ask why? You know their are thousands of scientists that have come to the conclusion that global warming is real. THe only people that dispute it are people in the oil buisness or similar buisnesses. Bon Jovi’s plays pretty good music though
mel-
i think it’s a probability thing more than a logical thing. i think it was likely that hughes was going to get injured based on how how of shape he was in that first start. that it wasn’t an arm injury doesn’t really change anything. the legs are as important as the arm in pitching.
i don’t think we’re going to solve this one because there is so much disagreement, but on a positive note, cashman handled joba much better by having the strict joba rules. i really think there should be a joba starting rules, a hughes starting rules, and a kennedy starting rules. thinking out things ahead of time can only help cashman, eiland , and girardi make the right decisions with the big three.
The rule of 30 would indicate that a pitcher would start his MLB career pitching something like 130 IPs, 160 IPs, 190 IPs and then full MLB pitcher at 220 IPs. Can ANYBODY NAME ONE pitcher who took this path?
I mentioned this idea before but for the first half Hughes could be in the bullpen and Joba the second half. That might make up the innings difference
Just don’t ask Rudy anything about firemen’s radios…
“Can ANYBODY NAME ONE pitcher who took this path?”
old yanks fan-
that’s a damn good question. i wish will carroll would have stuck around a bit longer and answered your really good question. he may yet. it would be interesting to see a list of pitchers that showed their innings increase the first three or four years.
i looked up clemens and mussina and they jumped to the mid 200’s in their second years. yikes!
Gammons is a joke.
Doc Gooden threw 750 IPs in his first 3 year, ages 19-21, and was an absolute stud. Yes, this guy was an exception, but we are talking about 130-150 IPs for a 22 yr old Hughes.
Gregg Maddux at age 20, threw 31 IPs, Next year at 21, 151 IPS. Then 6 years of 250+/- IPs, then 18 years over 200 IPs.
Our Buddy Mel Stottlemyre threw 96 IPs his first MLB year, at 22. He then had 9 years throwing 250+ IPs ever year, including 290 IPs his SECOND year (the old ‘+200 rule’).
Geez… just noticed. Jim Palmer threw 290+ IPs SIX times. Kaat must be laughing at all this.
I’d like to see the data the “rule 30″ analysis used. Something seems very wrong. Did Pitchers physiology change around 1990?
By the way, we all know about Mel and Todd… but did you know there was a pitcher named….Mel JR.? (1990 KCR, 31 IPs career)
What happened to Mussina that his innings dropped year 3?
jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge
January 21st, 2008 at 5:02 pm
What happened to Mussina that his innings dropped year 3?
=======================================
In 1993, Mussina had a shoulder injury that DL’d him for a month and a half.
I’m as sick as you,Pete,about hearing about Clemens and Santana. Just TRADE him already,preferably not to the Yankees,we need to give up too much! That’s VERY cool that Gammons mentioned you in his offering,I may not be of the same age group as you but I understand. I continue to love A-Rod,any news about Cano with his arbitration process?
Isn’t it true that the Yankees have never won the WS with a Republican in office? Damon is so NOT a team player!!
The Yanks haven’t won the WS with a Republican in office since Eisenhower, and before that, Hoover.
speaking of gammons, take a listen to this:
http://www.rounder.com/index.php?id=album.php&catalog_id=6862
haha
Gammons is a real hoot. It’s a surprise that George P. Mitchell isn’t involved in the group to make it official as “homies”.
Pete should endorse someone.
Look at Mike NYY getting all political on us.
Whew - out all day, finally caught up.
The only comment I have about whether or not Hughes was brought up too early last season, I would like to ask, who should the Yankees have called up instead? They were at a low point; other pitchers were either injured or not doing the job. I’m not being facetious - I seriously want to know who they could have called up instead.
Also, as I recall, Cashman did not want to call Hughes up. So, there must have been quite the feeling of desperation at the time.
And I just want to say that was an awesome ending to the Giants game last night.
In 2004, George W. Bush lost only one state that he had carried in 2000: New Hampshire.
In 2004, fresh off the World Series, Curt Schilling campaigned for Bush in… New Hampshire.
Coincidence? Hardly.
The sample size of Republican presidents after Hoover and before Eisenhower is rather small unless you believe what some 1948 newspaper headlines reported. Sorry, don’t have a link! Think about it. How many chances did the Yankees have to win a World Series during a Republican presidency after Hoover and before Eisenhower?
I know this is Pete’s blog and he’s entitled to write whatever he wants, but I think it would be best if politics is never mentioned on a baseball blog.
The topics involving the Yankees are divisive enough without injecting politics as well.
Yeah, and the Yanks only win the World Series when Kentucky Basketball wins the tourney.
Please. Such a stupid topic.
Doreen - I do think that they brought Hughes up too soon last year but they really were desperate. Pavano was the 5th choice to open up the season and then pitchers kept getting hurt all through April. They had already gone through all of “their reserves”. I don’t think that they had any other choice at that time.
is anyone else going to the trenton scranton game?
For the record, the Yankees have won the WS seven times during Republican administrations and 19 times during Democratic administrations. A number of those wins, however, occured before the 22nd Amendment to the Constitution, which limited the number of terms a President could serve to two.
The Yankees won the WS seven times during the period between 1941 and 1952, when FDR served in his 3rd term and a sliver of his 4th Harry Truman served out the remainder of FDR’s 4th term and one of his own. One can reasonably speculate that, had FDR been subject to term limits, some of those Yankee WS titles would have occured under a Republican administration and the partisan title breakdown would be more even.
Several Yankee titles came after very close Presidential elections, including the 1961 and ‘62 titles (after JFK very narrowly defeated Richard Nixon) and the 1977 and ‘78 titles (after Gerald Ford very narrowly edged out Ronald Reagan for the GOP nomination and then very narrowly lost to Jimmy Carter in the general election).
In other words, the Yankees have been a wildly successful franchise regardless of the political affiliation of the various men who occupied the presidency during those championship seasons. Vote for the party of your choice in November with a clear conscience that your preference will have no negative effect on the Yankees!
Isn’t there a connection of when Kentucky wins the NCAA Basketball championship that the Yankees win the World Series. I think it happened like 5 times or something.
I could care less what Damon does in his own time as long as he shows up for spring training in better shape than last year.
Buddy -
Every time the Wildcats have won the NCAA tourney, the Yankees have won the WS. (but not vice-versa)
Don’t count on my alma mater (UK) for any assistance this year though - we’re crapping it up pretty good under Billy Gillispie in his first year as head coach.
doreen-
there is always a choice. hughes only pitched 11 innings, so whoever replace him could have been called up earlier. it’s water over the dam, but i think cashman learned from the mistake and handled joba a lot better.
i think hughes, joba , and kennedy should have similar rules to the joba rules amended for starting made up individually for each of them. that would keep cashman and girardi on the straight and narrow with them.
I would never vote for a politician based on a baseball player endorsing him. Chuck Norris, however…(kidding).
JD is worth over $50m so of course he will be a Republican. The Dems appeal to the oppressed and downtrodden. Guys like Cano and Wang, who only make $3m or so.
Giuliani sucks and so does his party. It’s a tota EMBARRASSMENT that he hangs around the YES booth making a complete fool of himself.
An hour with no comments? I think we need to make politics verboten or something, if it kills the conversation.
On the bright side, I just finished making myself a scarf!
Damon for McCain?
Is this some sort of Make-A-Wish Foundation deal?
LMAO
Amen Wolf. And OldYanksFan, great point on the rule of 30 question. haha, I agree young pitching prospects needed to handed carefully [see: Baker, Dusty], but I would love to see the pitcher whose innings were compiled so precisely.
and Melissa: Chuck Norris doesn’t do push-ups, he pushes the world down.
I heart Damon for his kookiness but homeboy looks real confused and lost in that picture. Stick to baseball and naked push-ups Johnny Boy.
Slow at your bar huh NYPD113th!
Rebecca - did you knit or crochet the scarf?
Fran: I knit
Rebecca, it looks to me like something may be jacked up with the comments. I have to go to the main blog page and re-open the topic to see any new ones instead of just refreshing the page within the topic.
Oh, and congrats on the scarf. I’ve got a beauty that the GF’s mother knitted me last year and it’s been to good use so far this winter. It’s mosty toasty.
I used to crochet scarfs but I haven’t done it in a while. Do you knit any other clothes like sweaters?
Does this mean that Rudy Giuliani will be doing naked pull-ups on the campaign trail?
Guiliani is a slimy, untruthful man.
I hear NYPD’s a master seamstress. He even has a Red Sox sewing machine.
Rebecca - as a Jet fan who are you rooting for in the Super Bowl? I can’t decide. I really dislike both teams. I suppose the Giants are the lesser of the two evils.
I think Romney needs to get some help. Maybe Manny for Mitt?
Rebecca - ever seen a book called “Domiknitrix:Whipping Your Knitting Into Shape”? I picked it up for a friend for the holidays this year. Fantastic title.
Wolf: Thanks
Fran: Mmmhmm…not sweaters, yet, but I’ve done pillows, hats (I’m making one to match the scarf) and blankets. I did do one shirt…well, I tried…didn’t come out too well, but I’ll just have to try again is all!
And I am EASILY rooting for the Giants. It’s a New York team, after all, and the only time I’d root for the PAtriots is if they were playing the Red Sox!
Rebecca - I suppose I will root for the Giants as well. After all it would bring a championship to NY/NJ and away from Boston!
You guys see that Albert Pujols basically banned a tv station from his press conference.
http://bronx-bomberz.blogspot.com/2008/01/pujols-shows-media-his-pimp-hand.html
If he’s clean - which I like to think he is - it’s pretty hard to blame him for doing it.
I’d just like to point out in the Photo Caption:
Alex Rodriguez and UM baseball player Yonder Alonso work their stomach muscles during their morning workout at the Hecht Athletic Center on UM’s campus.
Arod is not working his abs, he’s working on his lower back. Is the great and powerful MiamiHerald really that dumb?
Odd.
It’s not like Johnny to hook up with losers.
W.Ford; 112, 207, 210 ave 230
B.Turley; 7.3, 60.3, 247.3, ave 212.7
M Stottemyre; 96.0, 291.0, 252.7 ave
Al Downing; 9.0, 1.0, 175.7, ave 213.3
F.peterson; 215.0, 181.3, ave 220
Pettitte; 175.0, 221.0, 240.3, ave 215.7
Some pretty good pitchers.