Comments on: Pinch hitting: Will Carroll of BP http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/21/pinch-hitting-will-carroll-of-bp/ A Yankees Blog by Journal News beat writer Peter Abraham Sat, 11 Oct 2008 02:24:26 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=wordpress-mu-1.2.5 By: bru http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/21/pinch-hitting-will-carroll-of-bp/#comment-518175 bru Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:59:33 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/21/pinch-hitting-will-carroll-of-bp/#comment-518175 as an extention to the above post.i am just so sick of seing the same old,tired team every year with no pitching.the old guys just ran out of gas mentally and physically and couldn't cover for a very bad pitching staff and who knows how much steroids and hgh played a role in all of this.wang,joba and hopefully brackman will be our 3 young pitchers among others in the future,i think that is good enough where we can trade some of the young kids like hughes,kennedy and others.the chances of most of these kids turning into great pitchers are very slim and you have to play the odds. as an extention to the above post.i am just so sick of seing the same old,tired team every year with no pitching.the old guys just ran out of gas mentally and physically and couldn’t cover for a very bad pitching staff and who knows how much steroids and hgh played a role in all of this.wang,joba and hopefully brackman will be our 3 young pitchers among others in the future,i think that is good enough where we can trade some of the young kids like hughes,kennedy and others.the chances of most of these kids turning into great pitchers are very slim and you have to play the odds.

]]> By: bru http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/21/pinch-hitting-will-carroll-of-bp/#comment-518163 bru Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:50:36 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/21/pinch-hitting-will-carroll-of-bp/#comment-518163 kennedy and hughes should be left in AAA for now so the yankees should focus on joba.they need to sign an ace,cc,sheets,a trade for an under 30 ace.sign pettitte,moose to be the 4th and 5th,not the 1-3.when they do not need a 5th starter throughout the year,rest joba,rain outs,skip his start,a few times throughout the year skip his start and have hughes/kennedy or someone else spot start for him,have hughes or someone else on the roster that relieves joba in a certain inning at a certain pitch count every game to keep his pitch count down.the yankees need some of these pitchers to step up.they should also consider a nice package to land an ace like hughes,cano,betances for a jake peavey,kashmir type pitcher.they have enough minor league debth,cano can easily be replaced,you don't know what hughes is going to turn into but with kashmir or peavey along with signing sabathia and or sheets you know what you're getting.without pitching you can't win,as long as you're lineup is balanced and good enough that is all you need.the yankees have wang,joba and a ton of minor league pitchers,i would trade kennedy and hughes as long as we get the right pieces,a great pitcher/prospect or a good young position player/prospect.the red sox traded for becket and that worked fine.the yankees have a logjam of pitchers that don't fit in the big picture.sign sabathia and or sheets,trade hughes,cano for an ace,package kennedy and 2 prospects for another good pitcher or catcher,first baseman or corner outfielder.imagine sabathia,peavey,wang,joba,mussins/pettitte,i'm just using peavey as an example in a big trade scenario,hughes,cano,??,move posada to first base,dh matsui,nady in right,damon in left ,sign an infielder,center fielder or trade matsui,dh posada,nady at first,damon in left,abraeu in right,sign a center fielder and an infielder.jeter can be moved to second and arod to short if needed if their are any good third baseman out their like crede,just trying to build a great pitching staff 1-5 and shake things up that's all,no stone should be left unturned.if you trade cano,hughes,prospect for a peavey or kashmir type pitcher you instantly become better because pitching is most important,yes you create an infield hole but hughes get's replaced with kashmir or peavey providing the teams would even consider that trade.what i have learned throughout the years is yes you need offense but a great starting pitching staff is much more important than an allstar at every position,look at the 90's yankees where their farm system wasn't great because they were all already in the majors but they with just the right amount of pitching put together one of the more impressive runs in the history of baseball. kennedy and hughes should be left in AAA for now so the yankees should focus on joba.they need to sign an ace,cc,sheets,a trade for an under 30 ace.sign pettitte,moose to be the 4th and 5th,not the 1-3.when they do not need a 5th starter throughout the year,rest joba,rain outs,skip his start,a few times throughout the year skip his start and have hughes/kennedy or someone else spot start for him,have hughes or someone else on the roster that relieves joba in a certain inning at a certain pitch count every game to keep his pitch count down.the yankees need some of these pitchers to step up.they should also consider a nice package to land an ace like hughes,cano,betances for a jake peavey,kashmir type pitcher.they have enough minor league debth,cano can easily be replaced,you don’t know what hughes is going to turn into but with kashmir or peavey along with signing sabathia and or sheets you know what you’re getting.without pitching you can’t win,as long as you’re lineup is balanced and good enough that is all you need.the yankees have wang,joba and a ton of minor league pitchers,i would trade kennedy and hughes as long as we get the right pieces,a great pitcher/prospect or a good young position player/prospect.the red sox traded for becket and that worked fine.the yankees have a logjam of pitchers that don’t fit in the big picture.sign sabathia and or sheets,trade hughes,cano for an ace,package kennedy and 2 prospects for another good pitcher or catcher,first baseman or corner outfielder.imagine sabathia,peavey,wang,joba,mussins/pettitte,i’m just using peavey as an example in a big trade scenario,hughes,cano,??,move posada to first base,dh matsui,nady in right,damon in left ,sign an infielder,center fielder or trade matsui,dh posada,nady at first,damon in left,abraeu in right,sign a center fielder and an infielder.jeter can be moved to second and arod to short if needed if their are any good third baseman out their like crede,just trying to build a great pitching staff 1-5 and shake things up that’s all,no stone should be left unturned.if you trade cano,hughes,prospect for a peavey or kashmir type pitcher you instantly become better because pitching is most important,yes you create an infield hole but hughes get’s replaced with kashmir or peavey providing the teams would even consider that trade.what i have learned throughout the years is yes you need offense but a great starting pitching staff is much more important than an allstar at every position,look at the 90’s yankees where their farm system wasn’t great because they were all already in the majors but they with just the right amount of pitching put together one of the more impressive runs in the history of baseball.

]]> By: Bill Porter http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/21/pinch-hitting-will-carroll-of-bp/#comment-246391 Bill Porter Tue, 22 Jan 2008 17:00:04 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/21/pinch-hitting-will-carroll-of-bp/#comment-246391 While we're at it by what magnitude do you think innings at Major University Programs should be discounted? I see Travis has alluded to the metal bat issue and I think that is only one of of the important arguments to be considered in the discount function. Others may be school work, school/peer pressure, travel, work load etc. While we’re at it by what magnitude do you think innings at Major University Programs should be discounted? I see Travis has alluded to the metal bat issue and I think that is only one of of the important arguments to be considered in the discount function. Others may be school work, school/peer pressure, travel, work load etc.

]]> By: Will Carroll http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/21/pinch-hitting-will-carroll-of-bp/#comment-246344 Will Carroll Tue, 22 Jan 2008 06:50:33 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/21/pinch-hitting-will-carroll-of-bp/#comment-246344 Travis -- email me. Travis — email me.

]]> By: Travis G. http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/21/pinch-hitting-will-carroll-of-bp/#comment-246317 Travis G. Tue, 22 Jan 2008 03:57:02 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/21/pinch-hitting-will-carroll-of-bp/#comment-246317 Will, i appreciate being called smarter than me you, but we all know the real baseball genius out there is none other than yourself. you make a very valid point that MiLB innings should not count for as much as ML innings. since I'm wrong, could you give your educated opinion on how much they should count? what should the limits be for each of the Trio? you go on to say though that Verducci DOES use MiLB innings in his calculations, so I'm not sure if you're agreeing with his analysis or not. a few more things: - if your plan is to put Joba in the pen the second half, what happens in the playoffs? he could be our #1 starter this year. should he be 'wasted' in the pen? if not, transitioning back to starting near the end of the year could prove difficult, especially in a tight race. - Alan Horne's father doesn't quite agree with you on some points (linked in an above post). you really think any 100 ip MLer could breeze through the minors? i would think some pitchers throw with at least as much effort in order to GET to the ML. what about metal bats in the NCAA? that's gotta cause a helluva lot of stress. - as for MiLB pitch counts, they exist in AAA from 06 on. i took a quick look: Hughes' p/ip went up 2.3 in the majors. Joba's went down 2. Kennedy's was virtually identical (up .05). (I know it's a small sample size. i'll have a post on my own blog about this coming soon.) Will, i appreciate being called smarter than me you, but we all know the real baseball genius out there is none other than yourself.

you make a very valid point that MiLB innings should not count for as much as ML innings. since I’m wrong, could you give your educated opinion on how much they should count? what should the limits be for each of the Trio? you go on to say though that Verducci DOES use MiLB innings in his calculations, so I’m not sure if you’re agreeing with his analysis or not.

a few more things:
- if your plan is to put Joba in the pen the second half, what happens in the playoffs? he could be our #1 starter this year. should he be ‘wasted’ in the pen? if not, transitioning back to starting near the end of the year could prove difficult, especially in a tight race.
- Alan Horne’s father doesn’t quite agree with you on some points (linked in an above post). you really think any 100 ip MLer could breeze through the minors? i would think
some pitchers throw with at least as much effort in order to GET to the ML. what about metal bats in the NCAA? that’s gotta cause a helluva lot of stress.
- as for MiLB pitch counts, they exist in AAA from 06 on. i took a quick look:
Hughes’ p/ip went up 2.3 in the majors.
Joba’s went down 2.
Kennedy’s was virtually identical (up .05).
(I know it’s a small sample size. i’ll have a post on my own blog about this coming soon.)

]]> By: ken777 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/21/pinch-hitting-will-carroll-of-bp/#comment-246315 ken777 Tue, 22 Jan 2008 03:45:47 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/21/pinch-hitting-will-carroll-of-bp/#comment-246315 tut I thought I had posted a set up almost like yours on this blog. I was wrong! It was elsewhere. Yours is a little better than what i had in mind anyhow. Good post. 27/08 tut
I thought I had posted a set up almost like yours on this blog. I was wrong! It was elsewhere. Yours is a little better than what i had in mind anyhow. Good post. 27/08

]]> By: NYPD113th http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/21/pinch-hitting-will-carroll-of-bp/#comment-246311 NYPD113th Tue, 22 Jan 2008 03:33:37 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/21/pinch-hitting-will-carroll-of-bp/#comment-246311 So I’m curious, exactly just how much self loathing do you feel each time you get a paycheck? You know, seeing as how the residents of New York City, a city whose people you appear to loathe - pay your paycheck each week. -- Actually, it makes me laugh and feel terrific. BTW, much like the giants, the Colorado Rockies were a team that was full of youth on a hot streak..............how'd that work out. LMAO! So I’m curious, exactly just how much self loathing do you feel each time you get a paycheck?

You know, seeing as how the residents of New York City, a city whose people you appear to loathe - pay your paycheck each week.

– Actually, it makes me laugh and feel terrific.

BTW, much like the giants, the Colorado Rockies were a team that was full of youth on a hot streak…………..how’d that work out.

LMAO!

]]> By: Angel http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/21/pinch-hitting-will-carroll-of-bp/#comment-246304 Angel Tue, 22 Jan 2008 01:09:25 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/21/pinch-hitting-will-carroll-of-bp/#comment-246304 NYPD113th January 21st, 2008 at 10:27 am Championships this century: Boston 6 NY 0 So I'm curious, exactly just how much self loathing do you feel each time you get a paycheck? You know, seeing as how the residents of New York City, a city whose people you appear to loathe - pay your paycheck each week. NYPD113th
January 21st, 2008 at 10:27 am
Championships this century:

Boston 6
NY 0

So I’m curious, exactly just how much self loathing do you feel each time you get a paycheck?

You know, seeing as how the residents of New York City, a city whose people you appear to loathe - pay your paycheck each week.

]]> By: El Lay Dave http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/21/pinch-hitting-will-carroll-of-bp/#comment-246301 El Lay Dave Tue, 22 Jan 2008 00:48:31 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/21/pinch-hitting-will-carroll-of-bp/#comment-246301 "Can ANYBODY NAME ONE pitcher who took this path [pitching something like 130 IPs, 160 IPs, 190 IPs and then full MLB pitcher at 220 IPs]?" My apologies that my two examples are well-known Yankee antagonists. The first guy I thought of, Pedro Martinez, comes close: 107, 144 2/3, 194 2/3, 216 2/3 but has the 50 IP jump in the middle. Note that the first year is almost all in relief and the second was cut short by the strike. The second guy was Josh Beckett: 107 2/3, 142, 156 2/3, 178 2/3, (204 2/3) a little flatter than 30 IP/year. I'd guess the examples are rare because once a pitcher establishes that he is a real starter over a partial season of 100-something innings, he is often a full-time (and not fifth) starter the next season - how do his innings get limited? “Can ANYBODY NAME ONE pitcher who took this path [pitching something like 130 IPs, 160 IPs, 190 IPs and then full MLB pitcher at 220 IPs]?”

My apologies that my two examples are well-known Yankee antagonists.

The first guy I thought of, Pedro Martinez, comes close:
107, 144 2/3, 194 2/3, 216 2/3
but has the 50 IP jump in the middle. Note that the first year is almost all in relief and the second was cut short by the strike.

The second guy was Josh Beckett:
107 2/3, 142, 156 2/3, 178 2/3, (204 2/3)
a little flatter than 30 IP/year.

I’d guess the examples are rare because once a pitcher establishes that he is a real starter over a partial season of 100-something innings, he is often a full-time (and not fifth) starter the next season - how do his innings get limited?

]]> By: randy l. http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/21/pinch-hitting-will-carroll-of-bp/#comment-246293 randy l. Tue, 22 Jan 2008 00:11:21 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/21/pinch-hitting-will-carroll-of-bp/#comment-246293 will- i think that the more that developing pitchers is looked at scientifically the more questions will be raised for a while until a pattern becomes obvious . right now, it's hard to look at the pitchers who have lasted the longest like clemens ,shilling, maddox,or mussina and compare them to young pitchers today because in their early days the old pitchers were handled differently than kids now. weaver had all those pitchers that threw all the time too even though that sounds counterintuitive.. that probably has something to do with being healthy too. thanks for providing the base for a good discussion. will-
i think that the more that developing pitchers is looked at scientifically the more questions will be raised for a while until a pattern becomes obvious . right now, it’s hard to look at the pitchers who have lasted the longest like clemens ,shilling, maddox,or mussina and compare them to young pitchers today because in their early days the old pitchers were handled differently than kids now.

weaver had all those pitchers that threw all the time too even though that sounds counterintuitive.. that probably has something to do with being healthy too. thanks for providing the base for a good discussion.

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