Pinch hitting: iYankees Blog
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- January
- 24
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The guest blogger program rolls on today with Chris from iYankees Blog.
A blogger for four months, Chris is a New Jersey native who now lives in Seattle where he’s studying for his MA at the University of Washington. His favorite Yankee is Hideki Matsui and his favorite future Yankee is Mark Teixeira.
Here’s his post:
The Jim Leyritz situation, as you all know, is a troubling one indeed. A woman is dead, a man’s life is forever altered, dozens of lives are ultimately ruined in the process and thousands of fans are left scratching their heads. What’s next?
Yankee fans are experiencing a tremendous amount of hardships lately. This goes beyond Joba’s bugged-out relief appearance or the lack of an A-Rod home run at a crucial point in time. This even goes beyond a recent string of sports success had by our always hated and now arrogant New England rivals.
Nope, this is a lot more than that.
Our infallible idols (see Andy Pettitte or Roger Clemens) are suddenly reduced to actual human beings. Events that we’ve cherished and memorable moments that we’ve replayed thousands of times in our heads, as we attempt to experience those euphoric feelings just one more time, are suddenly being called into question.
External factors like steroids and alcohol have quickly disfigured some of our favorite aspects of Yankee history. It’s hard to think about Mark Wohlers hanging a slider to Leyritz without automatically drawing an implicit connection to Leyrtiz’s mugshot.
It’s simply not the same anymore.
I’d like to say that it’s just a snapshot in time. It’s not Leyritz we love, but it’s the action that he produced and the subsequent impact of that action that we will forever remember. To a certain extent, that’s true. However, you can’t really separate the two anymore. It was a Yankee moment, by Leyritz, and therefore, they’ll always be connected.
So, like I said before, what’s next? Although we fail to draw an immediate connection, what’s next (I hope ESPN doesn’t sue me) is Hughes, Joba, Melky, Kennedy, Cano, and the list goes on. Just ask yourself why you like these kids without seeing them play all that much? Ultimately, it’s because you dream about heroics that have yet to come, whether it be this season or the next.
The old Yankee memories (heroes included) are fading fast, not because we want them to, but because they’ve outgrown their own mythical proportions. Reality has set in.
Now, we’re waiting for new moments to be created by new faces and in new contexts. That’s what we want. We want to see Cano to hit a home run that ends a playoff against Boston (We’ve given up on A-Rod). We want to see Melky rob a pivotal homer during the World Series. We want to see Ian Kennedy surpass expectations and pitch a gem that Phil Hughes and Joba Chamberlain could only dream of.
That’s how we deal with the dreadful kinks in the great chains of Yankee history. That why we like these young kids as they provide us with something new and tangible. They give us something to hope for, especially during these strange Yankee days. It’s genuinely real, and we know that it’s there, waiting for us.
So, go ahead and check Phil Hughes’ blog for the third time today.
It really is okay to dream about the future.
This entry was posted
on Thursday, January 24th, 2008 at 12:42 am by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Thanks for the post, Chris. Good writing and an interesting choice of subject. Best of luck in school.
Good job. One of the better ones to appear here.
Nice post, and very true (except for the giving up on ARod part – the Yankees don’t even get to the postseason without him this year = and with a little better pitching, his HR in game 4 could have been a game-winner.)
Very good job.
Now that Arod has his new gigantoid contract, I think he’ll settle in and have a great year. And Clare is right, without him the Yankees don’t make the playoffs. They need his bat. Great post though. I’ll be looking for you in the crowd at the M’s-Yankees games.
Hey guys. Thanks to Pete for allowing me to post here, and thanks for the nice comments (thus far).
I do agree with you on A-Rod. Although, I feel like the hype for his “ultimate Yankee moment” has been fermenting for so long that it’ll be impossible for him to really ever capture it. I mean, in order to exercise his clutch demons, he’d basically have to hit a walk-off against Boston in an AL championship series.
Even if that exact scenario is too extreme (Boston), we’re probably still waiting on a walk-off HR in a playoff. Tough stuff for any player (even A-Rod).
Thanks again everyone.
cool post!
I cannot wait to see what Ian Kennedy does as well. The few he pitched late last season saw him getting into trouble and working out of trouble like a seasoned veteran. There’s something special about him, and I really hope what you posted comes true…
Take it easy.
Solid post, truthful topic.
There has been so much hype for the past decade or so regarding non yankee farmers coming to the Bronx for the ducketts; while I am a big believer that Johan IS worth the value of an american baseball dollar today, I agree with Chris in saying it is taste full to allow the imagination run with the idea of a true yankee taking feats.
And Chris, you got to believe that with Arods new 10 yr contract, he is bound to bat ONE for TEN in a clutch moment in October – not even ROB DEER was that bad.
FBI contacted about Jose Canseco trying to extort money from Maglio Ordonez to keep him out of his new book.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01.....ref=slogin
It’s good we want young farm players for great memories.But we haven’t found great free agents for great memories.Because David Cone,Scott Broisus,Tino Martinez,Paul O’Neil, and David Wells were as great as Derek Jeter and the rest of them yet were Free Agents.Brian is bring great at getting these young guys but Kei Igawa,Jaret Wright and a long list of people who Brian Had to know were horrible.
I KNOW THIS GUY! hahaha, nice job Chris. This was a good read.
Nice Post. Every team the fans love the young guys they are hopefully the future. So to all the young Yankees I wish to be great and continue to enjoy the feel of playing (and hopefully winning) in New York. The dreams that come true (sign Cano). Thanks for a wonderfull post (and so true) great day to all.
Good post. That’s probably the truth of it. Yankees fans are more optimistic about their prospects than they usually are because they’re desperate for some kind of turn around. It must be REAL tough to go seven whole years without a championship, huh?
Chris, 3 things:
1) you’re too tough on ARod…that was last years fad
2)Boston fans are recently successful but have ALWAYS been arrogant.
3)The Loss of The Scooter needs a mention in the Yankee tragedies of 2007-08.
Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t get wrapped up in what players do off the field. I enjoy the game itself alot more than the men who play it.
this was an excellent post. nicely done.
What’s sometimes difficult to remember is that these ballplayers are simply human beings with extraordinary talent in one area of their lives (they may have other talents, but this is the one we see most). They may be able to pull off superhuman feats in a game situation, becoming heroes of sorts in the process, but it doesn’t always translate to off-the-field actions.
It’s natural to idolize people who excel, especially at something you wish you could do yourself. One of the things I’ve learned as I’ve become older is to separate the person from the image. We love what Mickey Mantle did as a Yankee, or Joe DiMaggio, or, now, Roger Clemens. But there is an inordinate amount of pressure on these people – always in the limelight, unable to make human mistakes. When we found out how much Mantle drank, or how stand-offish DiMaggio was, it kind of set us back, a bit. But, it doesn’t take away from what they did on the field.
I shudder for Joba – he is the latest to be put on the pedestal. Amazing talent, amazing story – both professional and personal. And this post-season, photo-ops all over the place – Joba signing autographs, Joba at the hospital, Joba being a great guy. What happens if Joba shows a human side?
Anyway, I think we should try to enjoy what these people do, the memories they’ve given us. But always remember that these are just people. Being able to hit a gazillion homeruns doesn’t make a person perfect. For individuals in baseball who have both amazing talent on the field and good character off the field, we should appreciate how truly rare and special they are.
As for the young guys – nothing wrong in hoping that they will fulfill our need for something to reach for, but we have to be compassionate and allow them to be themselves, and realize that they do not owe us anything more than max effort on the field. (Though it would be nice to stay out of the tabloids!)
That was one of the most horrible blog posts I’ve ever read. Do you live in some sort of parallel universe? “Yankee fans are experiencing a tremendous amount of hardships lately.” Uh-huh. 13 consecutive years in the playoffs. What a burden. You’re the worst type of Yankee fan. The one with the sense of entitlement. “We’ve given up on A-Rod.” Way to suck up to Pete. And I could go on and on but I’m starting to feel a little ill. Awful. Just awful.
Well-done. Best piece so far.
Jammies:
Hardships = letdowns, in this context.
I agree with the anticipation angle…it’s why I’d not make the Hughes, et al for Santana trade. I don’t feel as strongly about a trade centered around Kennedy. But, I’d sure like to see them develop together as teammates. They both seem to be mature beyond their years, as is Joba.
The topic was/is a good & fresh one. However, we need to not make the same mistake when viewing the young Yankees. Just hope they reach their potential & have productive, long, healthy careers. Not to mention, add to the WS flags. . ..
I agree w/Will’s comment about a lot of fans getting more from the game than most players do. While many players no doubt do like playing, it is their job, and need to get away from it. People who sit back & call ibaseball a kid’s game are not fans. It’s work, demands skills & has many stressors and a high level of competition, with stats to prove it on a daily basis.
As for ^ Jammies ^ comments: Chris did write ‘ Yankee fans… experiencing, ‘ so it’s subjective and even at such a high level of achievement, a loss is a loss. How individuals experience that loss is unique. Maybe he could’ve chosen a better word? sure. But most NYY fans will relate to it.
Enjoyed the post, Chris. Thanks (though I agree with Clare’s A-Rod follow up).
Doreen, phenomenal post.
Although I do appreciate your post and the different topic I have to completely disagree with everything you’ve written. Complying with the lohud blog manlaw I’ll give you some of the reasons. I’ll skip over things I was going to say but Will and Clare beat me to it.
We enjoy baseball and its players for what they do on the field and the memories we connect with those special moments. I will always remember Leyritz hitting that homerun and also that I was a 14 year old staying up late on a school night. I remember my mom waking me up the next morning for school not knowing I stayed up late and trying to tell me that some guy named “Lester” hit a HR to win it for the Yanks the night before. While drunk driving and all that goes with it are terrible, in no way to I associate that great memory with a mugshot. In the same vane (spelling?) I will remember listening to an early season Yankees game on the radio when the Twins went up by 3 in extra innings but then got home just in time to see Giambi hit one out in the rain to win it. Do I think of steroids as well? No. Was he on steroids? Quite possibly. As said above, Mantle was a terrible drinker, and I am way too young to have seen him play. I do know that, in the early ’60s, Mantle and a few other Yankees came over to my dad’s house and played whiffle ball with the neighborhood kids. I never think of alcoholism.
We have to remember that history will remember the great baseball moments and not the personal lives of players. Look at how much San Fransisco loves Barry Bonds. It’s because he delivers great baseball moments. Do I anticipate great things from the young Yankees? Of course, because that’s what the game is all about. But that doesn’t mean the old memories are fading. That’s what is so amazing about being a Yankees fan…there are so many great memories no matter when you lived.
Last thing, stop with the A-Rod bashing already. I seriously doubt that “we” have given up on him (if that is the case, get ready for a LONG ten years) and as Clare said, you can’t have Yankee playoff baseball without him last year, so too bad. On top of that, what about his “meaningless” home run in the last game? What if the immortal Jeter (and I do love him so don’t get upset) doesn’t GIDP later in that game. If the Yanks come back and win, the A-Rod HR is the turning point of the game.
Thoughts?
Off subject…
I’m not a fan of Lupica. I can’t stand his rat-a-tat stammering so that he can always be the one talking on The Sports Reporters (I, I, I, …You, You, You…But, But, But…). Or how he’s ALWAYS hawking a new book, or stubbornly defending his sometimes defenseless positions.
But I have to say, his column on Mrs. Mara is very cool. Great story.
Eric VA –
Although I agree with you that the ARod bashing has to stop, I don’t think it’s particularly useful to go back to particular circumstances and play, “what if.” Because if you do that, then you also have to say in the “midges” game, ARod came up with a chance to tie that game and did not get a hit there.
Nice post. It gets the discussion going.
It’s up to us to take what we can from a notorious life and put the right value on it. It’s a version of caveat emptor, let the buyer beware. Since our society has devolved into a PC, purely relativistic morality (not that there’s anything wrong with that) how does anybody agree on what makes a hero anymore anyway? And if the person is not a hero, what difference makes their fall from grace?
Being able to hit or throw a good cutter, curveball or slider, or steal a base or make a diving catch doesn’t make you a good person. It never has. It may make you valuable to your team and make reading the backpages a little more enjoyable, but that’s not the test. It’s important not to skip the hard part about calling someone a hero – the thinking. For every star that falls from our self-styled firmament, there’s an adjustment to be made to our internal calculators. Leyritz, Clemens (maybe) and Pettitte made mistakes, Leyritz’ mistake being far and away the worst and Pettitte’s being de minimis.
But am I having a tough year as a Yankee fan? Not really. I’ll just have more to think about this time of year than usual as I sit in wide eyed anticipation waiting for the players to take the field in Tampa.
John,
Does Lupica hawk his doll? http://enough-lupica.com/lupica%20pages/doll.htm
Doreen,
Very true. However, I think most A-Rod haters hand pick their circumstances to prove their point.
Last two games against Cleveland last year:
4-9, 2 Runs, 1 RBI, 1 HR
Some people say he did horribly last postseason. I say, when the Yankees were down and behind, A-Rod had 4 hits including a HR. To me that’s good.
murphydog-
I have to agree about not being a tough year to be a Yankee fan. Although I thoroughly enjoy talking about them, and watching them, I don’t take it too seriously. It is, at the end of the day, entertainment. Believe me, there are other things in (my) life worth getting upset about or giving me a tough time – the Yankees, even with the bad press of late, are a diversion.
Doreen,
While I do take baseball seriously (I am debating Yankee issues in January before 9 am while my students are taking a midterm) I also agree that it isn’t at all a tough time to be a Yankees fan.
You are proctoring an exam and blogging.
Fail all the students!!
Eric VA -
I hadn’t seen that particular breakdown for ARod last post-season. Eye-opening, isn’t it?
Jennifer,
Of course! What else am I supposed to do for the 90 minutes they are sitting there suffering over physics? And don’t worry, they seem to be failing themselves without my help.
Jennifer
I didn’t know about the Lupica haters website. Funny stuff. I’ll be checking it out as time permits today. Thanks!
He’s the keyboard version of Skip Bayless. We all knew kids like them in school. They should be selling cars somewhere.
Chris
A brave post that probes the psyche of the fan.
“Ultimately, it’s because you dream about heroics that have yet to come, whether it be this season or the next.
The old Yankee memories (heroes included) are fading fast, not because we want them to, but because they’ve outgrown their own mythical proportions. Reality has set in.
Now, we’re waiting for new moments to be created by new faces and in new contexts.”
Such is our collective lot in life that we are mostly always waiting for someone or some thing outside of ourselves to bring us happiness.
The perfect holiday family gathering, the perfect spouse, or perfect job, or the perfect Yankee season. Tis all folly as being happy and content is an inside job and a gift that only we can give to ourselves.
Great post! Hopefully we’re witnessing a Yankee Renaissance. It does feel special, somehow, no? I think I’ll savor it even more in the final year of the Old Yankee Stadium. I’m getting misty-eyed just thinking of the shenanigans and rookie hazing before the last road trip.
John in Ohio,
Excuse me? You’ve just insulted car salesmen everywhere. They’re highly respected, right up there with shoe salesmen and IRS auditers.
Chris well done!
Doreen;
Very well done, I always try to read your stuff. You seem to have a good response to things that are written on this blog. Good job, again. 27/08
Thanks for the kind words, Ken777.
Chris: Great post!
Anticipation is a good thing. Expectations are dangerous in the hands of most fans. Reality will hardly ever be hit as far,thrown as hard or bunted as perfectly as what you imagine.
i appreciate the effort here, and the writing itself isn’t bad, but i fail to see the Jim Leyritz situation as a “hardship” for Yankee fans. in fact, it seems a little demeaning to the actual victim to claim it as such.
Jim Leyritz is a bad person. 10 years ago, he played a game while wearing a uniform of my favorite team. i am sure that there are many, many other bad people who have worn the same uniform. and the uniform of every other team in every other sport.
and i am sorry if i am not ready to group Andy Pettitte taking HGH with Jim Leyritz killing someone. just like i am not prepared to group A-Rod not hitting a HR in the playoffs with Jim Leyritz killing someone.
in fact, i am not sure what the point of the first half of this piece is.
just because the Yankees haven’t won a championship in a few years does not make it a “bad time” to be a Yankee fan. that attitude reeks of an entitlement that could only come if you have only been watching since 1996.
Mel – Your right. I apologize to car salesmen everywhere.
Doreen – I agree with Ken. Your comments are always well written and logical.
Pete’s commenters are, with a few exceptions, a respectful group of cyber friends. I wish I could spend more time here with all of you during the day, but if I fall too far behind in my work I’ll be sorry later.
While I respect you post, I disagree with some of what you wrote. Giving up on Alex – I do not think that we have given up on him – nor should we. We know that Alex will be here for the next 10 years. We don’t know that about anybody else! (And without Alex we don’t get to the playoffs last year.)
And as for experiencing a tremendouts amount of hardships – I would not consider making the playoffs for 12 straight years a hardship.
I look forward to this upcoming season with a new manager and all of the young pitchers – but then again I always anxiously await the start of every new Yankee season.
pat,
But isn’t it wonderful how the magic moments are never expected and often come from those whom you’d hardly label a ‘hero’? It could be a bench player you didn’t even know was on the team, a shortstop making a play at home plate, a rookie pitcher cutting through the order like a hot knife through butter, or even a 12 year-old fan!
Jealousy is the reason many people hate the Yankees. Not only of the many, many World Championships or the rock-star atmosphere, but because of all the history and magic “moments”.
i really dont understand this sentiment about how this post reaks of yankees-fan entitlement since 1996…
i read this post simply in the view of as a yankees fan, we come to hold up these athletes and view them as bigger than life, and as heroes for what they’ve done for us on the field… and then, we come across a situation that brings our perspective back down to earth, whether it be Leyritz’s situation or the cheating allegations, etc, that make us remember that these guys make mistakes and are human.
and as we look to the next generation of yankees stars, like Joba or Hughes or Cano, we are ready to look at them as the next heroes, and we hope that their personal judgement allows them to make the right decisions in life so that we can avoid situations like the Jim Leyritz now faces.
i dont think anyone is comparing what Jim Leyritz did specifically to what Clemens and Pettitte, or even Arod, has done in the same light… at least that was my impression.
No need to fret about giving up Melky in a trade for Johan. He’s a center fielder trapped in a Cy Young body.
Great article on Santana the person. Here’s an excerpt:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01.....mp;ei=5087
Best guest blog yet, by far. It was very enjoyable to read some fresh, well-written ideas with an interesting perspective on the recent off-the-field happenings.
“But isn’t it wonderful how the magic moments are never expected and often come from those whom you’d hardly label a ‘hero’?”
It’s because we expect it of the heroes. A homer by ARod that wins game 2 of the ALCS and ties series is great, but only great. If it’s hit by like…Nick Green, it all of a sudden gets made out to be the turning point of the series that gave the yanks the momentum to take the whole thing (if they go on to do so).
How can you defend ARod???
The guy has only won 2 MVPs in the last 4 years!
That’s not even a good as Mantle!
ARod was TERRIBLE against Cleveland with an OPS of (.830)
Anybody see Jeter’s OPS in the PS against Cleveland? (.352)
Anybody see Jorge’s OPS in the PS against Cleveland? (.435)
Anybody see Melky’s OPS in the PS against Cleveland? (.563)
The Yankees as a team had a .704 OPS in that series.
Could ARod have done more? Sure. An there will be times he does… like over 2 complete regular seasons.
There is a reason there are 9 guys on the field and 25 on a team.
It wouldn’t be that people expect too much from ARod, would it?
A series loss is never about 1 guy (although Wang comes close to being that guy)
ARod’s career numbers in the PS are somewhat lower then his career, although that’s not unusual, considering the PS is always against the best teams using their best pitchers.
My guess is that by the time he hits #800, his PS numbers will be better.
whozat,
Great point, but I’ve learned that it’s best to temper my expectations when it comes to Alex. lol.
Bedard and Roberts could be out of our division soon!! Good news:
http://mlbfleecefactor.com/200.....ik-bedard/
i guess i just don’t see how Jim Leyritz being a scumbag has any bearing at all on my status as a Yankee fan.
Jim Leyritz played for a lot of teams.
his actions really don’t spoil the 1996 WS for me at all. he hit a HR, then 11 years later he killed someone driving drunk.
what does one have to do with the other? nothing.
the HR isn’t “tarnished”. he wasn’t drunk driving while he hit the HR. one thing is part of a game, the other is real life.
i don’t feel any “hardship” at all. jim leyritz was NEVER a “hero” of mine. he was always an arrogant jerk who happened to run into a hanging slider.
“I say, when the Yankees were down and behind, A-Rod had 4 hits including a HR. To me that’s good.”
– Eric, Arod hit his HR with 1 man out in the 7th and the Yanks down in the game 6-2 and the series 2-1.
I think the bloggers point is that people expect “great” from Arod, not “good”.
He’s the highest paid player in the game by far and is supposed to be the best in baseball.
Not good news if Bedard goes to Sea
Maybe because i read “Ball Four” as a teen, but i’ve never viewed the Yankees as “infallible idols,” and thus the recent hoopla doesn’t disillusion me from a Yankee fan perspective.
In “Ball Four”, Bouton described how amphetamines are prevalent, how Mantle didn’t take care of himself to some degree, how the early 1960s the Yankees – like all ballplayers, at least of that era – often were Peeping Toms, etc. But the overall picture is of fun; indeed, I prefer that to the Bart Giamatti-George Will B.S. that equates baseball with moral issues. None of it diminished Mickey Mantle, or the 1962 world champions, etc.
Enjoy the moments on the field for what they are, remember them for what they were – exciting, historic moments in a game you love to watch, played by human beings who are fallible off the field.
Note: it’s dangerous to conflate Leyritz’s DUI w/all the steroids/HGH hoopla – Leyritz’s actions killed someone. People who took steroids did not. it’s also dangerous to conflate steroids with HGH – Mitchell himself says HGH is not a performance-enhancer – you could look it up!
as far as arod goes, the jury is clearly still out on his PS performance. There is so much hate, and so much defensivness about this guy. True, the yankees wouldn’t have made the postseason without him. But c’mon, leading your team to the playoffs is not what makes a Yankee Hero. And having a good series when the yankees lost, or hitting a homer that ‘might have’ been a PS moment dont cut it.
To be a real Yankee Hero, he will have to step up and do something big, something winning, something instantly recognizable. It doesnt have to be as dramatic as Reggie’s homers (how could it be), he could just hit .450 and drive in the critical runs in a series victory, or an extra innings double to win a series or something, but he has so far failed to do that.
He is signed with the yanks for another 10 yrs, and considering thier commitment to him and to winning baseball, Alex will have many more oppportunities for his defining moment, his coup de grace. But make no mistake about it, as the highest paid and most visible baseball player, he will have to come up with that special performance in the PS to make his time with the Yanks a true success.
and despite what was written above, i think most of us are patient, even confident that his PS heroics are going to come.
great post- i just realized that i feel the same way
Great post, Chris! While some may not agree, this fan from Wisconsin (for 22 years!) understands comletely what you are saying. I get into great debates (and win!) over the Yankees payroll and “the best team money can buy” all the time and love it! But when stuff like this happens, it DOES reflect on the team. I don’t like having to answer questions about that. That’s why I’m really ready for ST to start and see what the young guns can do, and have some real baseball to talk about again.
Thanks to all the guest bloggers from some fun, fresh insight and to Peter for giving them the chance. This is still the best place to find Yankees news and great fan insights into the game! You posters are very interesting to read and follow. Keep up the good work, it’s appreciated!
From a “lurker” and occasional poster!
“he could just hit .450 and drive in the critical runs in a series victory, or an extra innings double to win a series or something, but he has so far failed to do that.”
Didn’t he win a series against Minnesota by hitting an extra inning double in 2004?
Hey everyone. Thanks for all the input (both positive, and negative). I must say, the A-Rod comment was one of those “in passing” little jabs that I didn’t really put much stock in when I threw in there, but I can see how people may find it as “bashing” A-Rod.
I’m a huge A-Rod fan, you never really find me bashing him in my blog, and although he’s not my favorite Yankee, I still hope that he does well in clutch moments. I think, considering his previous playoff debacles, he did “well” (in comparison, remember) in the latest series against Cleveland. A hit here, HR there, he was beginning to breakdown people’s conceptions, which will help him in the future. Besides, as others have states, the failures against Cleveland, Detroit, etc., have been collective.
In terms of the “hardships” quote. For one, I’m speaking from the perspective of a Yankee fan who follows the Yankees and allows being a Yankee fan to really seep into their identity and culture. As a person, you’re probably fine and living your life like every other person out there. But, when viewed from this (fan) perspective, the hardships quote, at least to me, doesn’t seem like a reach. Also, even if you’re viewing the Yankees simply for entertainment (a diversion someone said) doesn’t that entertainment become somewhat “cheapened” and not as rewarding when you know some of the negative backstories behind the players?
There are some other things I’d like to comment on, but I have to get to work! I’ll be back later to discuss this stuff further if anyone is interested.
Thanks again for all the input everyone!
“It doesnt have to be as dramatic as Reggie’s homers (how could it be), he could just hit .450 and drive in the critical runs in a series victory, or an extra innings double to win a series or something, but he has so far failed to do that.”
no, he hasn’t failed to do that. everyone has just failed to remember it.
Nice post, Chris.
Hey Pete, you should get one of those tools from Nomaas.org to do a guest post. They’re always crapping on your blog and guest posters, but they can’t write worth a damn. Of course, I don’t think anybody from that website would put their picture or real name behind their work.
“no, he hasn’t failed to do that. everyone has just failed to remember it.”
– You can pick and choose all you want. His postseason numbers are poor, plain and simple:
http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/indiv.....statType=1
Great post, Chris. Way to be realistic and not try to blow sunshine up everybody’s asses. Since when is making the playoffs an accomplishment for the Yankees?
“– You can pick and choose all you want. His postseason numbers are poor, plain and simple:”
He’s had 93 AB’s in the postseason. 93 AB’s, talk about small sample sizes.
“You can pick and choose all you want. His postseason numbers are poor, plain and simple:”
really? i wasn’t aware of his postseason numbers.
i am specifically addressing the point raised by another poster that claims A-Rod hasn’t done something that he has.
but hey, thank God we have a Red Sox fan to pop into any thread that mentions A-Rod to point out the obvious. it really adds value to the blog.
My bad, he’s had 147 AB’s, still a very small sample size but he has an OPS of .856. Hardly poor by any stretch of the imagination.
“The pre-Socratic philosophers, starting with Thales, noted that appearances change quite a bit and began to ask what the thing changing “really” is. The answer was substance, which stands under the changes and is the actually existing thing being seen.”- wikipedia
huh?( my brief period as a philosophy major wasn’t a total waste)
nothing creates more controversy than bringing up whether someone is a true yankee or not. players like dimaggio,gehrig,berra,mantle,ford,etc are clearly real yankees. there is no debate over these players even with people who hate the concept of “real yankee”.
“real yankee” is the substance that is beneath the surface of the uniform. just wearing the uniform doesn’t make a player a real yankee. i don’t believe players like leyritz are real yankees. that’s my way around taking the dark view that chris is taking in his” half empty” but thoughtful post.
even with the steroid issues, it’s obvious real yankees don’t use steroids. would jeter ever use steroids? no way ever. i defend clemens because he’s earned by what he’s done on the field as a player my benefit of the doubt until someone proves he’s guilty, but i’ve never thought of him as a real yankee.
and even when real yankees have flaws, it doesn’t take away that they get it what it takes to be a real yankee. mantle had alcohol problems. but no one was better than mantle as a player or got it more what it took to be a yankee.
leyritz, clemens,even gossage , though they wore the uniform while performing in some great moments in yankee history don’t feel like real yankees to me. when you see it you know it. i couldn’t put it into words.
i think whenever you see it in a player there is a humility and quiet strength at the same time.obviously gehrig had it. but also players like elston howard had it. randolph too. mantle was a shy kid coming up. joba has it. there is no doubt just the way he carries himself.
i think the optimism chris switches to in talking about the young players comes from seeing real yankees coming along. .maybe the idea of “real yankee” is just a defense mechanism and a rationalization, but i don’t think so. i really think there is such a thing as a real yankee, and when looked at in this way the yankee present( and future) is as good as it’s ever been.
arod is close to being a real yankee, but he still needs to figure out the humility thing and get away from the self conscious ego thing where he fights himself. it’s not a given , but i think he’ll make it. the backing off from his opt out demands and recommitment to be a yankee says a lot about his intentions.
ray, you’re right about the minnisota series, but c’mon, he can’t hang his hat on a Wild Card series they were expected to win easily. As i say, the jury is still out and he, and the yankees will provide ample opportunities for him to come through, and he will.
“He’s the highest paid player in the game by far and is supposed to be the best in baseball.”
——————————————————-
So what does this mean? 3 MVPs every 4 years? Always the big hit? (Well, he had those, but not in the PS).
Take a look at PS and WS stats of Mantle, Mays, Bonds and the rest. Like any SMALL SAMPLE SIZE, you will find average, great and terrible.
Would I like to see ARod do more in the PS? You bet! Do I blame him for our PS failures? Of course not.
ARod is simply one of the best in the game. Not Superman. Not God. I don’t know why people expect so much, all the time.
“So what does this mean? 3 MVPs every 4 years? Always the big hit? (Well, he had those, but not in the PS).”
– Look at his PS numbers and you may want to expect an improvement on his OBP and BA before you start talking multiple PS MVP’s.
“ray, you’re right about the minnisota series, but c’mon, he can’t hang his hat on a Wild Card series they were expected to win easily.”
Were they supposed to win the series easily? I’m wondering because the prevailing thought is that the Yankees need a “true ace” in order to advance in the PS. IIRC, that Yankees team didn’t have a true ace but that Minnesota team had one, some guy named Santana.
Anyway, I was just disputing the notion that AROD has never had a game winning hit in the PS.
Would I like to see ARod do more in the PS? You bet! Do I blame him for our PS failures? Of course not.
————————————————————-
I feel the same way, blaming A Rod for not advancing in the post season is nuts. It’s a team sport, they win together they lost together.
Maybe McLovin can enlighten us with some words of wisdom on the topic.
Damn. How did a feel good thread became a good old-fashioned debate about A-rod?
A-rod is great. He hasn’t had his defining moment yet, but we have 10 whole freaking years to watch for it. Can’t they be 10 peaceful years, guys?
Mel, a-friggin-men.
In the euphoria of the youth movement, I’ve kind of pushed that contract out of my thoughts.
But have you guys actually wrapped your mind around the fact that 10 years from now, A-rod might still be wearing pinstripes?
Will he be out of shape, grey? Or will he still be one of the fittest athletes in the game? And will he be chasing skirts with the other senior citizen, Jeter? And why are there no “cheerleaders” in baseball? Hmmm….
Any other predictions for the year 2017?
Pete will be the new “Commissioner” at ESPN.
Very good, piece it was well said and I agree with it.
“Damn. How did a feel good thread became a good old-fashioned debate about A-rod?”
i thought it was because the guest blogger took a cheap shot at him. he showed up and clarified his point, which is good enough for me, but that is how it started.
In future writings please do not use the word “we” as I do not share many of the opinions you wrote about.
“Mantle didn’t take care of himself to some degree…”
——————————————————-
Possible the greatest understatement made in sports of all time.
I have an unnatural manlove for the Mic. I believe he was, in potential, the greatest player of all time. Most of his peers thought so too.
Mickey’s grandfather died at 39.
Mickey’s father died at 39.
Mickey gave himself a 50/50 chance of seeing 40, but he was sure he would never see 50.
He tried to live a lifetime during his baseball career.
He more then drank, he was a serious alcoholic.
He drank and partied late into the night many nights.
I sometimes wonder how he could play at all.
One day, after a particularly long night, Mickey staggered to the park and told Casey he couldn’t play. Casey was pissed, but didn’t start him. Late in the game, with Mantle slumped on the bench, Casey wanted to embarrass him, so he called on Mickey to pitch hit. Mickey couldn’t believe it. When leaving the dugout, he tripped over the top step.
He dragged himself to home plate, and then proceeded to hit a HR.
He injured himself his 1st year of play, during the WS. He had had a serious leg infection when he was young, and the doctor was going to amputate. Mickey begged him not to, so they treated him with a brand new miracle drug hoping it might work. The Penicillin worked, and his leg was saved. However he had problems his whole life with that leg, and the injury just added to it.
Aside from having the furthest HRs of any player, and the greatest shot in baseball history, Mantle was a great bunter. Good enough, that he had many bunt basehits with 2 strikes. He was a great speedster before his injuries, but played almost his entire career on two bum legs. Even with that, he was such a great baserunner, that he has a career 70% SBP.
The think about Clemens, Bonds and ARod ‘killing’ themselves with exercise routines, good diets and living right. Then there’s Mickey, drinking and whoring around most nights.
And yet look what Mickey DID do. It’s pretty amazing.
Everyone who ‘knew’ Mickey rarely talked about what he did.
The story, untold, is what he might have done… what might have been.
He was a very humble and decent man, but he led a tragic life in many ways, always tortured by the thought of dying when most people just start living. As he himself said later in his life “If I knew I was going to live this long. I would have taken batter care of myself.”
I wonder if we will ever see a kid with that kind of raw talent again.
“He should lead the league in everything. With his combination of speed and power he should win the triple batting crown every year. In fact, he should do anything he wants to do.” – Casey Stengel
“If that guy were healthy, he’d hit eighty home runs.” – Carl Yastrzemski
“No man in the history of baseball had as much power as Mickey Mantle. No man. You’re not talking about ordinary power. Dave Kingman has power. Willie Mays had power. Then when you’re talking about Mickey Mantle – it’s an altogether different level. Separates the men from the boys.” – New York Yankees Manager Billy Martin
“On two legs, Mickey Mantle would have been the greatest ballplayer who ever lived.” – Nellie Fox
Anyone remember the 2004 PS against the Red Sox?
Here’s ARods 2004 PS line:
50 AB/ 3 HRs/ 8 RBI/ .320 .414 .600 1.014
If the entire Yankees team hadn’t choked, would that count as ARod’s ‘moment’?
Wow, great insight.
A-Rod is a chokey, choke choker.
We don’t see Cano play that much. What? Is this blog entry from 2005?
Also, who cares about Jim Leyritz?
iYankees? You got the
worst blog name ever!
Please come up with something original.
oyf, unfortunatly, the yankees losing that series is, to this point, the defining moment of the yankees during Arod’s tenure. But he’s got 10 yrs to change that!
Thanks Chris for a thought-provoking post. That’s what these posts are for – whether we agree or disagree, at least it gets us thinking! While the word hardship might be a little strong when talking about baseball, I guess we have to remember that for those of us who take this stuff very seriously, it can seem like a “hardship” as it relates to our fandom. One thing that I do realize is that as far as Leyritz is concerned, while you have to be able to separate the player from his personal exploits, sometimes you can’t. And in that regard, I know whenever I see the Yankees Classic Moment of his ‘96 homerun (which believe me I love seeing), I will not be able to separate what he did in the tragic car accident from the classic moment. We’re only human.
Old Yanks Fan…………very cool stories, thanks.
yeah, oyf, excellent mantle post btw!
Just now picking my jaw off the ground. J/K 113th.
old yanks fan-
mantle was the man. to this day, i can still drag bunt as easily as catching a thrown ball without even thinking about it . being a lefty hitter, learning to drag bunt like mickey was the thing to do. nothing was more fun than watching mantle hit an upper deck home run , then drag bunt a hit his next time up, and then steal second if he wanted too. he was a walking machine too before the value of walking came into vogue.
more than any thing mantle was the player everyone else looked to. he was the leader without saying anything. as talented as arod is, mantle was faster and had more power. but even he went through some rough times with yankee fans. i think he was even called a draft dodger at one point for not going into the military for korea. being booed is not something new for yankee icons to go through.
arod has all the opportunity to earn his yankee chops. it doesn’t have to be a walk off home run in a world series. he just needs to slowly and quietly be the guy everyone looks to,and that can come from steady everyday production.
Just to add to OYF’s great memories of the Mick …
I also believe that Mickey still holds the time for fastest from home to lst …until he tripped on the drain in the outfield giving way for Joe D. he had blinding speed despite the osteomyelitis in his legs (I had the same disease…almost lost my leg too…I KNOW the pain he felt)
Jackie Robinson (a man who faced so much adversity to play ball because of his race)once said about Mickey ..”If I had to go through all that taping before a game..playing that hurt…I would have quit”.
It’s true that many baseball authorities and players think that if he had been 100% he might have broken just about every hitting record in baseball.
The Mick was my favorite all time player and I was fortunate to get to see him play even if it was mostly at the end of his career …but…even in his later years you could feel the electricity go through the crowd when he stepped to the plate …it was amazing …
As Billy Crystal said …”If God were to create the perfect ballplayer…he would use Mickey Mantle for the design” (maybe not exact quote but that was the basis of it)
Some other great quotes …these are exact..
“We never thought we could lose as long as Mickey was playing. The point was, we had Mickey and the other team didn’t. Tom Tresh
“One of these days he’ll hit the ball so hard, it’ll burst and all he’ll get for his efforts will be a single.” Casey Stengel
“I played with DiMaggio and managed Mickey. Nobody but nobody could hit a ball as hard and as far from both sides of the plate as Mickey could. He was just awesome.” Ralph Houk
“Mickey had everything going for him. He had the good looks and innocence we wanted to see in our heroes. He had outstanding strength. He even had that billboard name. Mickey was exceptional and the world loved him.” Bobby Murcer
I honor Mickey with the 07 in my post name.
Anyway ..sorry I got carried away on the Mickey Love but you can blame OYF for starting me off …:o)
Go Yankees 2008 !!!!
Just now picking my jaw off the ground. J/K 113th.
-
mel-
was that really nypd113th? naw ,must have been an imposter.
if nypd113th was old enough to have been around in mantle’s day, it would have been rough being red sox fan. they were like the devil rays in their expansion years. i saw ted williams in yankee stadium in his last year and remember a new phenom named yaztr#%2$men&^%$ski something who came up about the time kennedy was running for president, but there was nothing in the middle.
that was a very good time to be a yankee fan. maybe that’s why the fans from that time have such high standards. we really were spoiled.
Nice post, Chris!
Well before my time randy.
Old Yank..
I should have known it would be you to bring up THE MICK.
He was one of the greatest baseball players I ever saw. (I must confess I am a bit older then you). I have never seen some of the things he did ever done buy anyone else. Triple crown year; saw him bunt one time right to the pitcher, pitcher picked it up ready to throw to first base…but held up on the throw as he saw The Mick ready to cross the bag. He was that fast, and powerful. 27/08
randy l,
These young whippersnappers nowadays.
It makes you sick to hear Jim Kaat say he thinks he was overpaid when he was making 5 figures. What must he think of Dotel getting 11M? lol.
For me being a youngin, it’s always nice to read about stories before my time, like about the Mick; thanks
nypd113th-
too bad that early senility comes through sometimes for you. some red sox fans can delay it for years before it becomes so apparent.
just thought i’d insult you to get you back in character. it’s unsettling to think you might actually be a rational human being.
One more TRUE Mantle story:
It is 1967. Mickey is playing for 500 HRs.
His legs are totally shot.
He is literally wrapped in aces bandages, both legs, from the ankle to the top of his thighs. Sitting in boxers and socks, all you see is bandages.
Even when he hits a HR, just jogging around the bases is a great effort. It’s easy to see the effort this takes him, as he hobbles around 4 bases. It is painful to watch.
Everyone knows of the great Mantle and of the HRs.
But Mickey was the ultimate gamer.
He played hard. Always. He never let up.
Mantle comes up to bat, midgame, as called by the Scooter and F. Messer. As he steps to the plate batting lefty, Rizzuto says:
“Holy Cow Frank. Look how deep the 2nd baseman is playing. He better watch out or Mickey will drag one his way”
After the first strike:
“Man I tell ya Frank, you can’t play Mickey that deep. I wouldn’t put it past him to drag one right now”
After the second strike, an the 2nd baseman moves back a step:
“Man O man Frank will ya look at that! He’s standing on the edge of the outfield grass! I tell ya, you can’t do that with Mickey. 2 strikes or not… I say Mickey’s gonna drag one here!”
And as the pitch comes in, Mickey runs up and drags a beauty past the pitcher towards the 2nd baseman.
Mantle busts out of the box. It’s a beautiful bunt, an easy basehit for anyone with legs. But Mickey has no legs.
But he’s bustin it down the line. It’s painful to watch. On one hand I’m excited as hell, and on the other, I just want him to let it go. It ain’t worth it. You can see he’s giving it everything he got, but it looks like slow motion.
As the second baseman fields the ball, it will be close. Mickey is all determination. All guts. You can see it on his face. He wants this. But he’s just got no legs.
And as the 2nd baseman fields and throws, you can see Mickey is out by 1/4 of a step. Close.. but out.
SAFE! SAFE! screams the umpire. SAFE!
“Holy Cow Frank, I KNEW he would bunt. I KNEW IT! And it’s a Hit! Holy Cow! But I tell ya, I’m not sure if Mickey beat the throw to first”
“Yeah Scooter”, say Messer, “It looks to me that he was clearly out. A bit of a gift from the ump”
“Well Frank” says Scooter…
“It just shows you… everybody loves the Mic. Even the umpires!”
“nypd113th-
too bad that early senility comes through sometimes for you. some red sox fans can delay it for years before it becomes so apparent.
just thought i’d insult you to get you back in character. it’s unsettling to think you might actually be a rational human being.”
— Actually, if you look at my post history, you will see that I am the target of the personal attacks. While I do side with Boston and take my jabs at Yankees, I am the one whom gets attacked on the personal level.
I usually just shake it off and laugh at the person whom so easily allowed me to get under their skin.
So as much as you may not want to believe it, it is usually your Yankee bretheren whom tend to revert to childish attacks.
Anyone see this – According to Ken Rosenthal the Yankees are on the verge of signing Cano to a 4 year contract.
Yanks nearing four-year deal with Cano
by Ken Rosenthal
Updated: January 24, 2008, 1:06 PM EST
The Yankees, locking up one of their young stars, are on the verge of signing second baseman Robinson Cano to a four-year, $30 million contract, according to major-league sources.
The deal, which would take Cano through his arbitration years, also could include club options that would cover his early years of free agency.
Cano, 25, was eligible for arbitration for the first time this off-season. He asked for $4.55 million and the Yankees offered $3.2 million.
A “super-two” player due to his service time, Cano was eligible for four years of arbitration rather than the customary three.
Cano appeared in 160 games for the Yankees last season, batting .306 and setting career-highs with 19 homers and 97 RBIs.
His career batting average in three major-league seasons is .314.
Cano to Sign 4 Year Deal
http://bronx-bomberz.blogspot.com/
“Anyone see this – According to Ken Rosenthal the Yankees are on the verge of signing Cano to a 4 year contract.”
And stuff like this is why it always bugs me when people whine about the Yankees not doing this, that or the other thing. We have no idea what’s going on behind the scenes. We know Cash likes to play things close to the vest.
Great News Fran -
But it should remind us that money is ALWAYS an issue for the Yankees, regardless of what George and the franchise is worth.
For Cano’s output, $7.5m/yr is a steal.
But a team full of ’steals’ like this still costs $188m.
Jorge, Jeter, ARod and Mo cost about $75m by themselves.
Now we still need another 21 guys.
And we want to trade 4 almost free players for $20m+ of Santana? This is why the youth movement is so important. It’s not just about ’seeing’ how our own kids can do. It’s a matter of sound financial judgement.
People who think that money is no object for the Yankees simply don’t get it. George is by far, NOT the richest owner. And aside from the dollars and cents, I don’t think Cashman WANTS to have to spend $250m to win. Hal knows this too.
It may take a few years, but soon we will beat the Sox on the field AND in salary. We may always have the largest income, but it is time to win not just with baseball talent, but with management and scouting talent too.
It will always be a challenge to maintain the best team, hold onto our iconic players, and keep the payroll somewhere in line with the other teams.
old yanks fan-
another great story of the inner toughness of mantle. that inner toughness is a major part of what inspired teammates. i know as a kid you picked it up from being a yankee and mickey fan that you never let the pain show. jeter is like that now. arod too. players like cano and melky can only benefit from seeing jeter and arod setting that example.
wait, i thought the Yankees were trying to lowball Cano?
Old Yanks Fan – You are absolutely right about George not being the richest owner. He just puts the most back into the team. We are truly lucky to have an owner like George who cares about winning.
hmmmm,
The arbitration figure was a set up.
“The arbitration figure was a set up.”
I think hmmmm was being sarcastic.
Whozat,
I was joking with hmmmmm. Forgot to put the
“While I do side with Boston and take my jabs at Yankees, I am the one whom gets attacked on the personal level.”
coming to a Yankee blog and “taking jabs” at Yankees is called “trolling”.
do you see how that works?
mel,
I wonder if Arod will have frosted tips in 10 years. I mean they arent in style now, maybe it will make a comeback and they in turn call it Afrost. I wonder if he will have some work done on his tanned skin like Joan Rivers or just accept the wrinkly effect. I wonder if he will make adjustments to catching pop flies and just go with the basket catch.
GO SPURS!! Saw the second half. I guess they were lucky to only be down by that much. It was the first game i saw this year. I guess you get spoiled being a spur fan and just wait for the playoffs to start. Any chance we repeat?
“It may take a few years, but soon we will beat the Sox on the field AND in salary. We may always have the largest income, but it is time to win not just with baseball talent, but with management and scouting talent too.”
old yanks fan-
for the yankees to get back their position as favorite in the american league east, it’s going to take a lot of things to happen. one of them is beating out the re sox financially. the red sox are actually going to generate income from advertising patches on their uniforms for the first two major league games they play in 2008 in japan.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3210800
this red sox management is not the red sox management of our day. these guys are entrepreneurial. the yankees management can beat them , but they have to constantly stay on top of it.
the red sox may only get a few million from the patches, but that’s a middle reliever, well used to be, but you get the idea. they stick seats on to of the green monster. they do walking tours in the middle of winter that they charge for. they stick seats somewhere above right field. i’m expecting seats on the light towers above the green monster any day now. nascar patches are right around the corner.
i think the yankees have been slow to react to the new red sox management, but i think the power of new york will help them catch up fast. the next five years is going to be a constant fight for king of the hill.
“I wonder if Arod will have frosted tips in 10 years. I mean they arent in style now, maybe it will make a comeback and they in turn call it Afrost.”
Well, Jeter’s had the same haircut for the last 10 years. I guess ARod could have the same one for the next ten.
OLD YANKS FAN,
Awsome post on Mantle. I started watching sports in the 80’s but i always thought by what iv heard that Mickey was the best player ever. Well i saw a classic all-star with Roberto Clemente and thought he was men among boys. But still think that Mantle is KING. Besides if im not mistaken he has the most expensive baseball cards ever. Thanks for the story.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7715482
Yankees working on deal to lock up Cano for 4 years.
Yankees locking up Cano for 4 years:
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7715482
To Old Yanks Fan, I really enjoyed the posts about the Mick. Would you mind if I copied them to my blog? I am a long time fan of Mantle myself, and those two stories are ones I want to share with the members of my site.
S.o.S.
HaHa. I knew I could count on you for a prediction and a little trash talk. So you missed the first half, huh? You would’ve seen crisp ball movement by the Lakers and confused looks by the Spurs. I think the Lakers came out in the second half with visions of the Pacific Division dancing in their heads. Live and learn.
We’ll see if the Spurs can flip the switch (ask Shaq for advice on that one). Yesterday’s win over the Lakers was the first one over a winning team in a loooong time.
Good luck in South Beach.
whozat,
I beg to differ. Jeter has a several different looks throughout the season. He has the short look and the puff look just to name a couple.
hmmm-
do you feel as bad as i do for attacking nypd113th on a personal level?
maybe those annoying jabs didn’t deserve our counter punches.
just because he moves into our yankee turf ad tries to claim it as his own, i don’t see why we should object.
on the other hand, maybe we should try to teach nypd113th how to spell delusional.
you know for as great as this blog is, we never really get any breaking news from LoHud here…
“this red sox management is not the red sox management of our day. these guys are entrepreneurial. the yankees management can beat them , but they have to constantly stay on top of it. ”
randy, in the very article you linked to, it said the Yankees did the same thing with the patches 4 years ago.
i understand your larger point, but the patches don’t really seem “entrepreneurial”. it seems like an established routine for whatever team is going to Japan that year.
“hmmm-
do you feel as bad as i do for attacking nypd113th on a personal level?
maybe those annoying jabs didn’t deserve our counter punches.
just because he moves into our yankee turf ad tries to claim it as his own, i don’t see why we should object.
on the other hand, maybe we should try to teach nypd113th how to spell delusional.”
– Oh randy, trust me, they don’t bother me, they make me laugh. Again, it is hilarious to see how easily I get under you peoples’ skin.
Maybe it’s the recent Boston dominancy, the recent Yankee futility, or a wonderful combo of both. Either way, if it brings out childish behavior, it great.
So continue doing me the favor of entertaining me.
Turn Two if I recall this blog broke the Torre to the Dodgers story
great post. here’s hoping the young blood picks us back up again
This guest blogger is clearly deluded.
“the lack of an A-Rod home run at a crucial point in time”
I suppose you missed out on the entire 2007 regular season when A-Rod was the most unbelievably clutch player in all of baseball. And he did hit a homer in the playoffs. But you must be angry that he didn’t hit a homer in Game 2. How inconsiderate of him! I guess it’s ok that no other Yankee could hit Carmona either in that game, but somehow it still must be all A-Rod’s fault that the Yankees lost that game. Come on dude, one man can’t make up for the performances of Wang and Clemens and Mussina and Ohlendorf in that playoff series.
“We’ve given up on A-Rod”
Speak for yourself. Many fans, including myself, recognize A-Rod as arguably the best hitter in baseball (with Pujols, Ortiz, etc) and there’s nobody I’d rather have batting for the Yankees in ANY kind of game condition than Rodriguez. Would you rather have Posada at bat? Or what about Captain Clutch? In case you didn’t watch the postseason either, those dudes were the 2 worst Yankee hitters in the postseason. So before you dump on A-Rod for not hitting homeruns when it counts (which is completely wrong to begin with) maybe you should also crap a little on Jeter and Posada for all the GIDP in the posseason that killed numerous innings. Oh but they get a free pass because they’ve won 4 world titles a decade ago, right?
“randy, in the very article you linked to, it said the Yankees did the same thing with the patches 4 years ago.”
whoops. i should have read more of the story before i linked to it. but my point still stands. the red sox management is doing everything they can to generate dollars. the yankees have to match them and beat them.
whozat,
Jeters fade is still in. Whats Arods excuse.
mel,
South Beach?
Is it just me or is the NBA getting sloppier and sloppier by the minute? Thats probably why we struggle against the world in tournaments. What happened to crisp passing,shooting and dribbling? After Jordan,Bird,Magic and even Stockten the fundamentals just hasnt been the same. The only players i see with the 80’s skills is Nash and a tier below Duncan.
Potential long term deal for Cano (4 years):
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....p;c_id=nyy
speaking of hairstyles:
http://thesportshernia.typepad.....r-off.html
4 years $30M for Robinson Cano with two club options. Undernegotiation per WFAN.
$30M for 4 years for Cano
To Ostrich.
Again, the comment about A-Rod (e.g. We’ve given up on A-Rod) was not inherently hateful or degrading. It was essentially a quip, if you will, that doesn’t necessarily mean that we’ve all, in fact, given up on A-Rod. It’s meant to serve as a comparison for Cano and A-Rod and what we desire Cano to be and what we desire him to do.
Also, my comment “a lock of an A-Rod HR at a crucial point in time,” is simply a commentary on what fans, in general, have complained about. You cannot deny that. Actually, the entire premise of the post is meant to dig deeper than that, because that’s truly a superficial element in the grand scheme of it all.
Oh, and thanks to everyone for the input (good and bad). It’s all very much appreciated.
“but my point still stands. the red sox management is doing everything they can to generate dollars. the yankees have to match them and beat them.”
You’ve got this image in your mind of the Red Sox as this juggernaut of innovation…since when is adding seats to the stadium innovative?
I’m pretty sure the Yankees are making dollars hand over fist as an enterprise.
Oh, and I’d just like to thank everyone again for your input (good or bad). It’s very valuable to me, and I appreciate your words (so thanks!).
mel,
I get it they are playing in Miami today. Tough game. Sorry. Like a Yankee fan you sort of look forward to the playoffs. Now tell me the truth. If you guys would have one yesterday you would have called me out.
“Jeters fade is still in. Whats Arods excuse.”
Is the fade still in?
Also…does Alex even have the frosted tips any more?
Why a deal for Cano, but not Wang?
S.o.S.,
Spurs play Miami tonight.
I don’t know. The pundits talk as if Chris Paul is Magic incarnate.
There’s some pretty good passers in the league. Check out this assist:
http://broadband.nba.com/cc/pl.....basite=nba
“my comment ‘a lack of an A-Rod HR at a crucial point in time,’ is simply a commentary on what fans, in general, have complained about. You cannot deny that.”
Yes that’s a common complaint of dumb fans, in general. The smart fans actually know that A-Rod has been awesome as a Yankee and has delivered numerous big hits. I’m just trying to smarten up the dumb people.
nypd113th-
what’s entertaining is watching you disappear when the talk gets down to baseball mechanics or real baseball stuff. i notice that when someone like will carroll comes along and talks about some of that real baseball stuff you don’t have much to add to the conversation.
any reason for that?
it’s one thing to be a red sox fan, but being a student of the game as a baseball fan should come first. some of the red sox fans like brian (redsoxfan) who come on here actually talk about baseball and don’t just get into simplistic yankee/ red sox trash talk.
smile away, but it might be the smile of an idiot.
OYF – Thanks for the great post about the Mick, who I saw play many times (and, yes, the boo birds were always out until the last few years when people began to realize what they would soon be missing forever.)
One of the reasons Mantle’s drag bunts were so incredibly effective was because the second baseman, out of self-defense, had to play so deep (some were posted out on the outfield grass.)I think it was also Nellie Fox who said that if Mantle played in the era of artificial turf, he would have killed a few infielders.
If memory serves me correctly, I believe that before the Mick’s legs gave out, he had recorded the fastest time ever from home to first (batting LH) and also from first to home. There have been a number of great players who possessed both great speed and power (Mays, and both Bonds to name just two) but I don’t believe that Mantle’s speed and power has ever been equaled. I think that most of us agree that over the course of his career, Babe Ruth was the greatest baseball player ever, but for a very short period of time (before the injuries took their toll)Mickey Mantle was the greatest baseball player who ever lived.
“nypd113th-
what’s entertaining is watching you disappear when the talk gets down to baseball mechanics or real baseball stuff. i notice that when someone like will carroll comes along and talks about some of that real baseball stuff you don’t have much to add to the conversation.”
– Then you are not paying attention.
I do chime in and attempt to engage in actual baseball talk, yet that is usually greeted quickly with a personal rip.
Look at what is there, not what you want to see.
“Why a deal for Cano, but not Wang?”
This speaks to a comment I made earlier…people have been complaining, here and elsewhere, that the Yankees were lowballing cano and that they should sign him to a long-term deal like Reyes and Wright got with the Mets. And now…BOOM, out of nowhere it turns out a deal is already almost done.
Just because we don’t know about a Wang deal doesn’t mean there isn’t one in the works.
Also, there are reasons that it’d make sense to wait a year or two before giving Wang a long deal. He _did_ tank in the playoffs, and have some rough times late last year. And that fingernail thing affected his bread-and-butter pitch. I’d want to make sure he can adapt and continue to force batters to swing at his sinker — and that he can keep throwing that sinker injury free — before making a multi-year commitment.
“Why a deal for Cano, but not Wang?”
the Yankees control Wang for 4 more seasons. those are his age 28, 29, 30, and 31 seasons.
long term deals to pitchers have proven, over and over again, to be much worse investments than long term deals to position players.
the Yankees have the luxury to wait 1-2 more years before paying up front for Wang’s age 32-34 seasons.
would you give a 6 year deal to Wang right now? i wouldn’t.
the Yankees are playing this perfectly. buy out 1-2 of Cano’s FA years, hold off on Wang.
well done by the FO.
Laura–
Just because it has not been talked about doesnt mean they are not discussing it. Until today all of thinking had been the Yankees were not going to do any long term deals as previously they had not been apt to do these in the past.
Again I think with the new economic thinking of brother Hal and old thinking of Cash I believe these will be more frequent then prior years.
“Again, the comment about A-Rod (e.g. We’ve given up on A-Rod) was not inherently hateful or degrading. It was essentially a quip, if you will, that doesn’t necessarily mean that we’ve all, in fact, given up on A-Rod. ”
i can’t believe that people thought that by you writing “We’ve given up on A-Rod” meant that you were saying “we’ve given up on A-Rod”.
i guess some people just like to read between the lines.
i’m just kidding with you…
whozat-
we’re on the same side, but i have trouble getting those two world series in the last four years out of my mind. maybe it’s from living on cape cod where i’m surrounded by maniacal red sox fans.
so you think i’m getting little carried away and want to kill a fly with a sledgehammer, but i’d rather overestimate the problem than underestimate it. i think the red sox are for real. i think they’re going to be good for a while. i also think the yankees can beat them, but to do that yankee management has to take them seriously.
and they are. there’s just a little lag in the system as the yankees turn the ship around.
lol @ hmmm’s comment
hmmm,
Excuse my ignorance. But didnt Cano and Wang come in the same year? Are they signing Cano earlier than they had to? Why not wait for both if thats the case. Just to make sure Cano continues to progress. He did struggle the first 2 months of last year if i can recall.
Wow, I can’t believe all the posts that were made while I was typing my note! I guess I am really slow getting out of the box myself. Anyway, sorry for repeating so much of what others had already managed to get down in print. But, in any case, it probably bears repeating, because Mick was one of a kind.
nypd113th-
go back to that will carroll post and give me one quote of yours that talked about how to develop young players.
to use a classic hmmm line, “you are embarrassing yourself”.
“nypd113th-
go back to that will carroll post and give me one quote of yours that talked about how to develop young players.”
– Please tell me where I said I responded to that entry? You are embarassing yourself.
Again, no reason to get so worked up my friend.
Back after being out. Good news about Cano, right?
OYF – Great Mickey Mantle stories. I was a mere youngster when he was at the end of his career, but my husband is a Yankees fan because of him – his dad was a Brooklyn fan.
Mel –
You had a question about why no cheerleaders in baseball earlier. It reminded me fo the time I was a cheerleader in high school and the coach of the varsity baseball team was upset that we cheered for the basketball and football teams, but not for baseball. So they forced the junior varsity cheerleaders (of which I was one)to cheer at baseball games. Let me tell you – what a joke!!! Obviously, because of foul balls, you cannot stand on the sidelines, so we sat in the football bleachers which ran the foul line, but faced opposite the baseball field (we sat in the upper seats, backwards in the bleachers). There are really no “cheers” you can do. We did do something in the middle of the 5th inning on the field, if I recall. The bottom line was this coach just wanted a bunch of pretty (if I may say so myself) high school girls hanging around. It didn’t last long, thank goodness. The real crime was that our coach (a female) didn’t have the guts to say no.
Laura;
Because Wang is a pitcher. This is the way to go with a pitcher…short term contracts because of injury’s. This doesn’t mean they won’t sign him to a long contract. Maybe they will. 27/08
To be fair, NYPD made an effort to be friendly today. A tiger can change his stripes.
Oh — I just remembered — after the baseball thing, the GOLF coach decided he wanted the cheerleaders, too! So we went with the golf team to some tournament. Obviously, we couldn’t cheer, so I really don’t know what was going on. We got a nice dinner, both times, at the golf outing and the baseball team’s year-end dinner. And I still have a souvenir golf hat!
“Excuse my ignorance. But didnt Cano and Wang come in the same year?”
yes, they have the same amount of service time
“Are they signing Cano earlier than they had to? ”
yes. they are signing him earlier than they had to.
but in exchange for that, they are getting options on 2 of Robbie’s free agency years.
“Why not wait for both if thats the case.”
i believe Robbie approached the Yankees looking for the deal. if he was willing to give up 2 of his FA years, then the yankees were willing to listen. it’s a good deal for Robbie because he is set for life. it’s also a good deal for the Yankees because they believe they are underpaying for 6 years of star performance.
the yankees aren’t doing it to be nice. they are doing it because they think it’s a bargain.
“To be fair, NYPD made an effort to be friendly today. A tiger can change his stripes.”
– I appreciate that mel, but I have never be “unfriendly”.
Again, I may post opinions that are the opposite of most, but I try not to get personal or vicious.
Others have attacked me personally, my profession, even posted stuff under my name, and made up stories about me.
Again, go back and look, and you will see that more often than notI am the one taking the personal hit from others. Like I said, it makes me laugh, but don’t think that it’s me being the hostile one.
Doreen,
LOL. Really. With tears. Stop it. No don’t stop. Please tell me you have more storie like that!
Doreen,
Just read your golf post. Please, more, more!
“– Please tell me where I said I responded to that entry?”
“HOW ABOUT THOSE G-MEN !!!!
BIG BLUE RULES !!!
ROAD WARRIORS SUPREME !!!â€
- Congrats on being the bridesmaid. -nypd113th
did you even read will carroll’s post? it was actually one of the best guest posts.
randy,
Please, just ignore the troll.
Well…
I guess I am in the slow class also. Sorry. 27/08
“did you even read will carroll’s post? it was actually one of the best guest posts.”
- Might have, I read a lot of baseball stuff.
Again, relax, you seem to be gettin all worked up over nothin’.
However, this is usually the case. One of you guys gets mad, attacks me, I say something back, and people think I;m the angry hostile one.
Again, your anger amuses me. Way more important things in life than to let the little things get to you.
“randy,
Please, just ignore the troll.”
– EXACTLY coorect Clare, thank you.
If you don’t like me or I anger you, just ignore me. Thank you.
Mel -
I hadn’t thought about those things in a very long time! I swear they are true.
Chris – nice post. Its great to meet another hardcore Yankee fan in Seattle
hilarious stories Doreen. the Golf one is simply unreal. i was on my high school golf team and it was the one sport that absolutly nobody showed up to watch. i’m not sure they would let anyone watch…
NYPD,
Sorry ’bout the hostile environment. In general, it’s pretty cool here. We have two, count them two, Boston fans that interact well here. Brian (Red Sox fan) and ray. They pop in and engage in polite banter. No passive aggressive behavior.
Not an indictment on you, just saying that’s why those two get along on the blog.
As for your profession. Can’t help you with that one. You open yourself up to a lot with that. But we really appreciate it when you help us out or save lives.
The option year money on a deal for Cano will be more interesting than the money for the first 4 years.
A-Rod won’t need highlight tips in 10 years. Grey hairs will take care of it for him.
Saucy -
I’m sure the golf coach asked us to go precisely because of what you just said. No one ever went to the golf matches!
Old Goat – I’d be honored.
cano signing is great, another sign that the yanks are being smart about developing players.
Im sure Wang is next, of course you cant blame the yanks for being a little more hesitant with a pitcher, but he’ll get his too. Yanks will share the wealth earlier with thier young stars, and get another couple of years of cost control.
“The option year money on a deal for Cano will be more interesting than the money for the first 4 years. ”
this is true. i’m guessing something like $14M each?
Doreen,
It must’ve been tough. Did you hold up “Quiet” signs? Was one of your cheers “2, FORE!, 6, 8! Who do we appreciate?!”
doreen -
that’s a funny funny cheerleader story. having cheerleaders was one reason why high school football was a lot more fun than baseball. in baseball ,it was a big crowd if 50 people showed up while footabll games would draw thousands plus cheerleaders.
it’s the same thing today.the kid next door is a regional high school football stud running back and star guard on the basketball team, and he can throw in the low 80’s without much effort. but try to get him on the baseball team. no cheerleaders. that’s the problem. i understand where that coach was coming from.
i keep telling him i’m going to recommend him to some yankee scouts i know. with him being a diehard red sox fan , you can imagine how that goes over.
Oh Mel!
I am cracking up!
It could never, ever happen today. (I hope!)
NYPD113th
“January 24th, 2008 at 10:19 am
“I say, when the Yankees were down and behind, A-Rod had 4 hits including a HR. To me that’s good.â€
– Eric, Arod hit his HR with 1 man out in the 7th and the Yanks down in the game 6-2 and the series 2-1.
I think the bloggers point is that people expect “great†from Arod, not “goodâ€.
He’s the highest paid player in the game by far and is supposed to be the best in baseball.”
I wonder if NYPD113 thought ARod was just “good”,not “great”, when he hit that 9th inning ,eventual game winning homer off Papelbon on the night the Fenway Fools wore the wigs. LOL
clare-
yes maam. just having some fun with him. and mel is right that this is a pretty cool place. nypd113th-
i’m sure you’re a tough enough of a guy to take it. just my way of pointing out that being a baseball fan is more important than being either a yankee fan or red sox fan.
nothing like a good doreen story to get things back in perspective.
Nice job, Chris, from a Yankee fan in Tacoma
Melissa
“I wonder if NYPD113 thought ARod was just “goodâ€,not “greatâ€, when he hit that 9th inning ,eventual game winning homer off Papelbon on the night the Fenway Fools wore the wigs. LOL”
– I’m sure they did.
But I think you are making the bloggers point when you are pointing a “great” Arod feat…………..that occurred in the middle of the regualr season.
BTW Drive 4-5,
I;m pretty sure Arods HR off Paps wasn’t the game the fans wore those blonde wigs, I think his HR happened earlier in the season.
Those fans wore the wigs in response to Arod cheating on his wife in a game later that year at Fenway, I believe.
Thank you, I appreciate it. Feel free to drop on by if you want.
I think some fans forget that baseball is a game of failures. If players fail 60-70% of the time, they can almost guarantee themselves wall space in a small town in upstate NY.
just realized that with all the comments that chris hit a nerve with his post. it was just edgy enough and ambiguous enough to generate some good comments. on first reading it felt pessimistic,but on second reading optimistic. i’d say good job.
signing cano and wang will solidify the youth project and send the right message throughout the organization.
Anyone else going to Leetch Night tonight?
The blonde wigs was the same weekend ..but .I think it was on Friday night that they wore them …Alex hit the homer on June 3rd (Sunday)…my Birthday !!! I say thanks for giving Arod a reason to feel even better after that homer …SOX it to ‘em !!!!
Go Yankees 2008 !!!
Actually …he hit the homer on June 4th …since it was past midnight but it was counted for the June 3rd game. It was a thing of beauty ..just like Jeter’s 3 run bomb off Schilling. Two of my very favorite moments ..:o) …
Go Yankees 2008 !!!
Terrible.
“The blonde wigs was the same weekend ”
– No it wasn’t. The HR was earlier in the year.
They were exciting HR’s gal, almost as exciting as Pedroia’s and Lowell’s in the World Series.
Go check your dates NYPD ..you have a computer ..look it up …I think the story broke the last week in May …
As far as the other homers …Who are Pedroia & Lowell ??? ..:o)
Andy Pettitte was less lucky than many other players, but please be advised I experienced not one second of disappointment over his name being included in a recent report. The so-called report that mentioned Andy’s name was a joke. The report lumped HGH and steroids together which also was a mistake. They’re not the same. Andy’s record is untouched by what he admitted to. It was nothing. And if it were anything, why isn’t anyone talking non stop about the terrible “disappointment” of Paul Byrd’s 1000 vials and 100 syringes? Yesterday I heard the Cleveland Indians’ season ticket sales are ahead 21% from last year owing to their ALDS win. Paul Byrd won that final game, and even a few days later would not deny using HGH up to and including that moment. Why wasn’t the title taken away from the Indians? To even bring Andy’s name up in this context after all the lies that have been published and spoken about him is incredible to me. The topic to be angry about is that an incomplete list of names was so dramatically revealed. No names should’ve been used unless all teams had been examined. No luck in doing so? Fine, make your changes in the system without ruining selected peoples’ career by xeroxing a report made to a different investigating group.
Believe what you’d like, obviously that’s your own right. However, although Pettitte was included in an inherently flawed report about steroids and hgh, which, as you say are categorically different (although both are classified as PEDs), Pettitte still admitted to using it. That’s good that he admitted to it, but he still used a substance in an illegal manner. I believe him enough to accept his statement/apology, but, we can never be totally sure as to whether or not Pettitte used HGH many times, or just the handful of times he admitted to.
When I see Andy Pettite, I don’t necessarily think of steroids or HGH. But, that’s what he is currently associated with, and therefore, I cannot help that my mind recalls the Mitchell Report’s allegations and his subsequent admission. Maybe once I see him pitch a single game in 2008, that’ll eventually change, but I’m speaking from the perspective of myself and those who may share that same perspective with me.
I mean, in order to defend our favorite Yankees, we’re quick to say “hey, look at those guys over there,” which I’ve done myself, but, sometimes we just have to let these guys own up for what they did and accept it. The Indians comparison sort of fails, simply because I was talking about an entire string of recent memorable moments/players, including Leyritz, Clemens, Pettitte, Knoblauch, others. This group of events is what compelled me to write that post, not necessarily the actions of a single player.
Yanks 61
I think it was also Nellie Fox who said that if Mantle played in the era of artificial turf, he would have killed a few infielders.
I think I posted the story of the time (right Handed) he hit a liner at “The Killer”…and he was a big guy…the killer got his glove up to his gut, just in time to have the ball knock him on his but. Needless to say; 1st and 3rd let alone pitcher, was not the place to be when he was at bat.
phil hughes’ blog?
Well-written.
A-Rod is gonna come through bigtime soon enough. Give a man enough opportunities -as his deal does- and he too will shine like the youngsters. Or brighter. Thanks…
Great post! I think the what fans a really looking for is the teamwork that was established at the beginning of the Joe Torre era. There was a sense of family because it wasn’t a bunch of big names thrown together to win it all. Players on those teams made their name on the big moment. Whoever was called up to make a play was capable. A-Rod has missed his opportunity to be a true Yankee. I mean to join the likes of Jeter, Bernie, Paul O’Neil to name some recent ones. The guy has the skills but is missing that clutch bone in his body that Jeter has. Its the bottom of the ninth of game seven, whom do you want at the plate; A-Rod or Jeter? If you’re thinking A-Rod, no champagne for you. There have been those moments in recent Yankees history when a player steps in the box, and because of the nature of the TEAM, you knew something good was going to happen. Aaron Boone, Scott Brosius, Jim Leyritz, those guys were clutch. The team was clutch. 95-2000 was a time when the Yanks weren’t all big names and home-runs. Hardly the Bronx Bombers unless the situation called for it. As fans we love the players who wont make it to Cooperstown unless they buy a ticket. We did what was asked when they were asked to. We never had to wait. The Yanks didn’t need A-Rod to get to the playoffs. Torre did 11 consecutive years without him.