Yankees may be close with Cano
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The Yankees appear ready to break tradition and give a long-term contract to one of their arbitration-eligible players.
Robinson Cano is reportedly close to a four-year, $30 million deal. Because of his service time, this is the first of four years Cano would be eligible for arbitration. His agent, Bobby Barad, asked for $4.55 million last week. The Yankees countered with $3.2 million.
This deal would be similar to what the Mets did for David Wright (6 years, $55 million) and Jose Reyes (4 years, $23.25 million) last season.
The Mets hold an option year on Wright and Reyes. The Cano deal would likely have a option as well.
UPDATE, 6:15 p.m.: Waiting on a call from Cano’s agent, Bobby Barad. But it sounds like the team will be for four years with the Yankees holding two one-year options. They would buy out four years of arbitration and two years of free agency.
In the long term, it will probably prove economical for the Yankees. Cano’s deal will probably be backloaded.
I’d be surprised if they signed Chien-Ming Wang to a long-term deal this season given that pitchers are more fragile.
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on Thursday, January 24th, 2008 at 3:37 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
In Yankeeland long term is 4 years. I am happy to lock him up though, he’s a special player
Sometimes, it’s smart to break with tradition. Good move.
It’s an excellent move for the Yankees to lock up Cano. He is only going to get better as he gets into the prime of his career. When he develops the proper amount of maturation at the plate, he can become one of the best hitters in the game. The potential is definitely there.
Sports Illustrated is also reporting the same thing with two additional team option years tacked on to buy out his first two years of free agency.
Just curious…does anybody with more knowledge on the arbitration process have an idea what Cano might be able to fetch come his final year of arbitration…assuming he were to not get a long term contract and continue his success?
Since the Yankees are breaking tradition, I vote for putting the last names on back of their home uniforms. Just Kidding.
I would be very happy to see Cano in pinstripes for a long time.
“does anybody with more knowledge on the arbitration process have an idea what Cano might be able to fetch come his final year of arbitration…”
it’s really tough to say. inflation keeps driving salaries higher.
if he keeps performing at the high level he has been, something like $4M in 2008, $7M in 2009, $9M in 2010, and $12M in 2011 is not out of the question.
figure between $10M-12M??
Here’s my question: if Cano’s side asked for $4.5M and the Yanks countered with $3.2M, why would they now be offering $8M/season?
Don’t get me wrong, I think the Yanks are smart to lock up a good young player at a key defensive position for a long-term deal below market prices. But I don’t fully get the logic of going low in their arbitration offer and then basically doubling up Cano’s request.
apparently this will negatively impact the yanks in terms of luxury tax so they better make up for that by getting 2 cheap free agent years out of it. Otherwise, just let him go to arb. for the next 4 yrs.
MJ, within two years, at the rate Cano is progressing as an offensive and defensive force, 8 million a year will be a bargin.
MJ, I was thinking the same thing, but it seems like it’s more about the coming 3 years.. meaning, 7.5/year over 4 years probably balances out to at least what he would cost through the arbitration process over those 4 years (going to arbitration each year, amount going up each year).
The team options in the end are were the Yankees gain. Otherwise, seems like it would be a relative was, since we had him under our control those 4 years anyway.
Now, whatever the team options are, lock him up for another year or two at a cost probably lower than he’d get as a free agent.
Good move, he’s as much if not more the future of this team than anyone.
GreenBeret7, I hear that.
Maybe the contract is structured so that he only makes $4M now and it escalates in years 2-4 (plus options)?
“Here’s my question: if Cano’s side asked for $4.5M and the Yanks countered with $3.2M, why would they now be offering $8M/season?”
My guess is that they realized that Robbie is worth maybe $4 million this year, but by the end of this contract, he will be worth around 10-12 million (as hmmm said above and I agree with) they are probably saving money over the course of the 4 years (especially with 2 option years tacked on probably at about 8-10 million also). Besides, there is a premium on avoiding arbitration (which I think they would have lost) with a great young player. They don’t have to sit in a room and say everything wrong with Robbie now, maybe affecting their relationship. That’s worth more than most people would think.
Yeah, that’s along the lines of what I don’t really understand with this contract…it seems as though they’re really only giving him more up front but that the money he’ll make over that period of time will equate to roughly the same.
Chris NY, I completely agree with you. Behind Utley, Robbie Cano might be the second-best 2nd baseman in baseball. To sign him and keep him around while he enters his prime is smart and exciting to think about as a fan.
MJ, i’d go further and say he IS the second best 2B in the game behind Utley. Over the last 2 or 3 years I think it’s been said on here, the stats prove that as well.
it’s a no brainer for the yankees to get cano locked up. i criticized cashman last winter for leaving too many things until later. now i have to give him credit for doing something that takes care of thing ahead of time.
i understand that wang is older, but i think it’d be smart to do something with him too. i guess because he’s such an unusual pitcher, the yankees may want to see success for another year before they commit long term. once they see it, they’ll pay more though.
Stewman23, it may be the same, but may even be lower than what he would have made through arbitration. Plus there is value, as others have said, in avoiding that process. But again, the biggest piece is probably the option years that will likely save money or at least keep him here, probably both.
“Yeah, that’s along the lines of what I don’t really understand with this contract…it seems as though they’re really only giving him more up front but that the money he’ll make over that period of time will equate to roughly the same.”
7.5 mm a year isn’t the salary structure, that’s the average yearly salary. No one knows what the structure of the deal is. So, we don’t know if they’re paying him more up front than they would be through arby.
randy l., it’s also better/safer to do long-term deals with position players than pitchers. way too much risk with pitchers, especially young pitchers. Despite Wang’s success, they may stick to the arbitration process with him and use the logic that pitchers are a lot less stable in terms of injuries and so forth.
“But I don’t fully get the logic of going low in their arbitration offer and then basically doubling up Cano’s request.”
they aren’t “doubling” his request.
the contract will probably pay him something like $4M in 2008, $6M in 2009, $9M in 2010, and $11M in 2011.
he won’t get $7.5M per year.
the Yankees are basically paying him what they estimate his arbitration settlements to be, then in exchange for guaranteeing that money, they are getting 1-2 years of Robbie’s FA years at what will probably be below market rates.
“once they see it, they’ll pay more though.”
Yeah, but it’ll be a safer bet. I’m fine with that.
SI said it was 4 years at 30 mil (average 7.5 mil per) with tywo team option years to buy out this first two FA years. If there is a better all around 2nd baseman in baseball it’s only Utley. Utley is helped tremendously by that park. Cano has yet to lear to pull the ball. 14 of his homers went front right center to left center. When he learns that trick, he’s going to be impossible for pitchers to deal with. His strikeouts should remain low (averages about 65-70 a year…actually 85 over a 162 game schedule) and he doubled his walks this season.
A 4 year $30 million deal doesn’t necessarily inpact luxury tax. It is probably not $7.5 each year. More likely something like $4M for 2008, $7M for 2009, $9M for 2010 and $10 million for 2011.
Cano is “locked up” for 4 yrs already. Unless they add 2 bargain yrs to this, it makes little or no sense at all.
Cano’s deal sounds similar to Grady Sizmore’s deal where there club options at the end of the contract where the team can save some cash.
I love Cano, but this deal isn’t necessarily the no-brainer everyone’s making it out to be. Personally, I like keeping young guys hungry and the last thing Robbie needs is to be less motivated.
Look at the way J. Reyes sulked and ran through stop signs down the stretch for the Mets last season. If he was still playing year-to-year, something tells me his attitude would have been different.
Again, we’re the Yankees. If a guy has success here, he’s not going to want to leave. If we want to keep a guy, no one’s gonna outbid us. I say hold off on the jackpot contracts as long as you can.
If they didn’t add in those two extra years, there would be no reason to do anything but go year to year. This keep Cano’s bat in NY and helps to offset the eventual offensive slide that Jeter will start to experience within the next 3 years. He will aslso be the other power bat behind Rodriguez as the rest of the team moves from a power team to more of a slash and dash team that is coming up through the system.
Boston Dave -
But he’s arbitration eligible for all of those 4 years, so they’d have to go through this every year, and on a per-year, one-year-at-a-time basis, it’s probably not worth it for (for the Yankees) a player like Cano. ?
The difference is the Yankees have players who will keep him in line. There is no one on the Mets to do that.
Dave, it makes perfect sense for reasons already mentioned on here several times:
1. option years keep him locked up for 2 more years (if SI report is accurate), probably at a bargain price at that point.
2. avoid the arbitration process and any ill affects it may have.
“Unless they add 2 bargain yrs to this, it makes little or no sense at all.”
right, but every report has said 1-2 option years will be included.
“A 4 year $30 million deal doesn’t necessarily inpact luxury tax.”
i think the luxury tax calc is based on AAV, so it would impact luxury tax a little.
but perhaps the Yankees 1) have plans to get much closer to the threshold after this season and 2) are saving enough on the option years to easily offset this
“If he was still playing year-to-year, something tells me his attitude would have been different.”
ok, but you just made this up. you really have no idea.
it’s an interesting dynamic that the yankees are slow to commit to wang long term because of the injury risk of pitchers , yet they invest so many resources in young pitchers in the draft and in developing them. and then when they get one that wins 19 games two years in a row, they worry about future injury.
if pitchers are so unreliable, why invest so much into them in the first place? why aren’t they investing in first basemen,shortstops, and catchers because they are going to need them too. i’m throwing this out more as an idea than something i’m attached to, but it does seem to a bit of contradictory behavior by the yankees.
There is a benefit beyond having him “locked up” for 4 years. They are also locking him in at a set price.
Wait, if players generally would not play as well if they are making the big bucks, then why would any team offer a player more than one year?
The premise could work just the opposite as well. Without having to worry about a long term deal being worked out, the player can relax and play better.
I don’t see where it makes any difference. The incentive and drive to play well and hard every day comes from one single place, money or lack there of won’t affect that. It comes from within.
“it’s an interesting dynamic that the yankees are slow to commit to wang long term because of the injury risk of pitchers”
And the potential for ineffectiveness.
“if pitchers are so unreliable, why invest so much into them in the first place?”
Because you need new ones to replace the ones that get hurt or flame out. That seems pretty simple to me.
Robby is locked in at today’s money which is a smart. His next contract at the age of 29 will be the top contract of his career if he contines his same pace.
randy l., it’s also a lot different when you say “a lot” in terms of prospects and an established/developing pro pitcher. Meaning, “a lot” of money thrown at prospects is a couple million, in terms of Wang it’s much higher.
Also, it’s not as though they’re forgetting about position players in the minor leagues. Plenty of position players have been mentioned lately (ex. Austin Jackson) in terms of strength in the farm.
The reason pitching is talked about so much more is because, A) until recently we really lacked good young pitching in our farm, and B) there is a constant need/desperation for good, young pitching, across all of baseball. Large in part due to inconsistency and injury to pitchers. It’s not a natural thing to throw the ball the way they do, as often and hard as they do. It’s a constant battle.
off topic, but I just today started checking out the “Giants journal,” Ernie Palladino’s lohud blog for the Giants. Now I’ve never gone on there before today, and have no idea how long it’s been around, but there seems to be very little traffic.
Just saying, it’s a testament to Pete’s work here how many people comment here and how much exposure his blog has gotten. No slight to Ernie intended.
Old Goat,
It must be nice living on Big Rock Candy Mountain. Down here in the real world people (ballplayers and otherwise) are motivated by money and work harder, train longer, and toe the company line better when their future salary is unguaranteed.
Prediction: Pavano rehabs vigorously this summer and returns in September, fit and healthy, just in time to audition for his next contract.
this may be a dumb question, but does the luxury tax threshold change from year to year based on average salary? or is it a set number that will change when they decide it needs to be changed?
“i’m throwing this out more as an idea than something i’m attached to, but it does seem to a bit of contradictory behavior by the yankees.”
i’m not sure what you mean. Wang was exactly one of those young pitchers you describe that the Yankees invested money in. he was a high profile international FA signing, a “bonus baby”. the Yankees paid him what was considered a “large amount” to sign with them.
that amount was $1.9M.
for that investment, the Yankees have gotten 2+ seasons of excellent pitching for about $350K per season.
even if Wang never pitches again, the Yankees’ initial investment would have been an absolute no-doubt unbelievable bargain.
considering they still control him at well below market prices for the next FOUR seasons, that investment continues to reap massive benefits. these benefits “pay” for all the other $1M bonuses they have paid out to guys that didn’t work out.
“this may be a dumb question, but does the luxury tax threshold change from year to year based on average salary?”
it’s not a dumb question. it is written into the collective bargaining agreement. it generally goes up every year.
I’m not saying that its a good or bad thing… its just not a big deal. They are paying Cano what he’s likely to get anyway for the next 4 years in arbitration IF IF IF he stays healthy and continues to succeed.
so unless there are 2 “bargain” option years, this is either no big deal OR a bad deal if Cano doesnt stay healthy or continue to play well (yes, i know he probably will but nothing is a guarantee).
“so unless there are 2 “bargain†option years…”
That’s the premise that we’re all under, that those years exist, since the same reports that mention the deal mention the option years….
Chris NY
I just checked out the Giants blog after reading your post. It’s a nice blog and I’ll probably check it more often now.
Pete made a post here a little while back about how baseball is just something that interests people 365 days a year. He pointed out how on a long drive, most of the sports talk was about baseball, even in the offseason. It is surprising the lack of traffic, especially with the Giants in the Superbowl and all. But i think this blog seems to be steadily building an audience, all year long. Win or lose, a month or so after the Superbowl I doubt I would go scouring the internet for Giant news… just a thought .
Several of us had recently expressed frustration that the Yankees’ front office tended to be too stubborn to lock players like Cano and Wang longterm, avoiding arbitration… The Mets and Reyes were used as an example of when such a thing is a good thing.
Cano is the most exciting 2B the Yankees have had for a while, and that includes Soriano.
Excellent move by the Yankees. If Cano continues to hit in the .320 range the Yanks will save a ton of money by avoiding going to arbitration with him.
Hi Randy,
Happy now that the Yanks locked up Cano? Good move by Cash and I agree with other posters who said that their reluctance to lock up Wang is due mostly to injury concerns (he has had arm problems in the past).
As for the draft strategy, the most glaring need for the system was initially pitching. The reasoning being that it is tough to find on the open market and expensive. So Cash, Oppenheimer and Newman invested heavily in pitching and now have a glut of talent manifesting itself at every level of the system, most notably at the ML level with the Big Three. The past few drafts and LA signing periods have seen the brass add more position prospects to the mix. Most are in the lower levels and probably won’t see the show for a few years, but there is now talent at just about every position.
I’m also on the side of the fence that is nervous giving Cano this kind of guaranteed money.
You hope he inspires him to play his best since he arrives, but a lot of players lose an edge when they know they aren’t singing for their supper anymore.
Cano has always struck me as a flighty guy who needs to be kept focused.
I hope we’re not sitting here at the end of May blaming the contract on him starting the season in another horrid slump like last year where there were talks of sending him down to refocus him and get him motivated.
The Reyes comparison was spot on. Reyes was a home body who lived with his parents, his wife and his kid and focused strictly on the baseball.
Then he got his contract and was spotted at bars all over Queens and Long Island during late nights before day games.
Cano’s already had his name come up in this sort of thing and that was before he got the money.
I’m definitely nervous since I would have taken him to his free agent years on the year to year deals like they did with Jeter.
Cano has the talent to be worth the money.
“Wang was exactly one of those young pitchers you describe that the Yankees invested money in. he was a high profile international FA signing, a “bonus babyâ€. the Yankees paid him what was considered a “large amount†to sign with them.
that amount was $1.9M.
for that investment, the Yankees have gotten 2+ seasons of excellent pitching for about $350K per season.”
the problem with that is that is doesn’t measure all the other pitchers that were signed for up front money who flamed out before they ever pitched an inning of major league baseball. i don’t have a clue what the specific costs are but to come up with one wang , a team probably has to sign 3-5 minor pitchers.
i agree wang has been a steal for the investment, but it’s kind of like having to buy a lot of scratch tickets before you find one winner. the real cost of the winning ticket is all the money spent on all the tickets.
Chris NY -
Agreed. But it really depends on what the details of the option years are.
I am still confused why everyone sees this as a big deal though. Cano was under control for 4 years and unless he starts winning MVP’s, he would likely get about 30M/4yrs anyway. The option years may be pretty high, and Rotoworld mentioned that a deal would in fact negatively impact the luxury tax.
The way I see it, arbitration-eligible years are just like option years anyway. Only difference now is that Cano gets his options guaranteed in advance.
I dont mean to complain… I hope Cano stays for a long long time… just that this signing isnt a big deal (IMO).
randy l
excellent point
Pitchers are generally a lot more difficult to develop. And regardless of how quickly you might want to push a young player, there is a limit on their workload. Unlike position players that can play everyday, starting pitchers with a bright future usually have a pitch count limit AND can only pitch once every five day. Throwing a ball also places a lot of strain on the shoulder and that means there’s always a possibility of arm burn out. And this doesn’t include freak injuries. It is because of all of these reasons that most teams place so much emphasis on trying to develop young arms. Putting all your eggs in one basket generally is the best thing to do. For good examples refer to Brien Taylor and Sam Militello — these two were studs coming up through the system and look where they are now.
Sam Militello! nice…
I loved my Sam Millitello rookie card almost as much as my Matt Drews.
Boston Dave, I do agree that it’s not a BIG deal. I think it was a good move, but in terms of it being earth shattering news, no it’s not.
Saucy, totally agree. I wouldn’t expect a Giants blog to have as much traffic as this one, just as you said (quoting Pete), baseball is just talked about more on a 365 day a year basis… Besides, even during the season, there are just more games than the one a week football has, and the season overall is longer, etc..
I was just shocked that in the middle of a playoff run, now leading to the superbowl for a team that wasn’t “supposed to” be even considered a possibility for teh SuperBowl, and there were like 5 or 6 comments per thread, even during the game.
Again, I don’t know if it’s a new blog or not, and wouldn’t expect the type of traffic as this blog gets, but definitely I thought I’d see more than is there.
It may be a while before there’s any word on how the Yankees draw up the money in Cano’s deal. Maybe he will make $1 million per for the first three years and then $27 million in the last year of the deal.
Another point about Robbie’s deal.. in terms of any “risk” people are worried about by signing him to a 4-year deal… does anyone here think Robinson Cano, after the years he’s had, would only get 7.5M/year if he were a free agent right now? He may still be young, but he’s proven enough to get much more than that, IMO, if he were a free-agent in this market. Think about the talent level others in the league have, compare it to his, and look at their contracts.
Truth is he’s not a free-agent, he’s under Yankee control for the next 4 years, maybe 6 with this new contract, so with or without the new contract, he’s ours for far less than market value. Thinking about it that way, the risk with the contract is only 7.5M compared to whatever you think he would be worth if he doesn’t perform as he has been, or if he has injuries, etc IF those things would lead to lower salaries through arbitration. So yes, it’s millions, but how many? 1, 2? Not much risk with the Yankee bank. And it’s worth the risk to keep him those extra 2 option years.
Chris NY -
point is… they can take it a year at a time and IF Cano does well and stays healthy they’d probably end up paying him 30M/4yrs.
Or they can guarantee him 30M/4 yrs up front and hope he continues to play at a high level and stay healthy.
it all comes down to how favorable the option years are to the yanks (2/20-22M for ex.). Otherwise, it makes little sense. I’m guessing he gets a deal just slightly less than David Wright’s 6/55.
Dave, I think most of us, or at least I know I am, assuming the option years are favorable for the Yankees, that’s the whole point. Otherwise, I would agree with you, that it would be pointless. I’d be shocked if those years weren’t favorable to the Yankees.
my other point was that if he doesn’t perform well and stay healthy, how much less are we really talking about that he’d get over 4 years than the 30M? I’m guessing not much less, 25? Who knows……
“i agree wang has been a steal for the investment, but it’s kind of like having to buy a lot of scratch tickets before you find one winner. the real cost of the winning ticket is all the money spent on all the tickets.”
You missed hmmmm’s point. He’s saying that even taking into account several other pitchers who maybe didn’t pan out, Wang has already been a good investment.
Brackman and Kennedy are the only guys who’ve gotten bonuses over 2 mil from the Yanks (that are currently in the system). So, even if you assume they paid 5 other prospects 2 mil each to sign and be developed as pitchers in the time it’s taken them to generate Wang…that’s cost them what, 13 mil all told? For 400+ IP of 3.75 ERA over two years?
Oy Pete, yah gotta fix the formatting bug
So that’s what happens when Pete forgets to close the strong tag
There’s no question that Cano’s worth the money. I don’t see any problem with his motivation. He’s gonna want another (big and Long) contract after this one’s over and that’s a gigantic reason to play as hard as possible. Also he’ll have other great players around to help him get out of his slumps (hope he never has a big one). To those that say check out year after year instead of signing him to a contract, signing a contract is Always based on what he’s done and what he is expected to be capable of doing and that’s why this contract is worth it since they are also signing him for a year or two of FA so altogether it’s worth it. Great guy Cano I wish him the best.
Signing Robbie Cano for 4 years/#30 Million is money well spent. Most say Chase Utley is the best 2nd basemen in MLB.
Last Year he signed a 7 year/$85 Million contract which will net him the following:
07:$4.5M, 08:$7.5M, 09:$11M, 10:$15M, 11:$15M, 12:$15M, 13:$15M.
Utley is 28 years old. Cano is 24 years old. Homeruns aside, Robbie’s numbers for his first 3 years compare favorably to Utleys, when you take into consideration that:
a. Robbie, at age 22,23,24 has not fully developed his power potential. His OPS is similar for the first 3 seasons.
b. Utley’s numbers have come against inferior NL pitching staffs.
c. Utley has many more RBI opportunities as a No. 3 Hitter than Cano who’s appeared mostly in the 7th or 8th batting order positions.
Yes, the Luxury Tax may take a bite. But remember that starting with 2009, several big contracts will be trimmed from the payroll.. Pavano, Giambi, Mussina, Pettite, Abreu with Damon &, Matsui to follow.
Pete,
get rid of the “” in “This deal would be similar”
Interview with Kat O’Brien of Newsday. She discusses Santana, pitching rotation, bullpen, Girardi’s chemistry, etc. Decent read.
http://mlbfleecefactor.com/200.....f-newsday/
If anyone out there is a fan of the Office, Phil Hughes has a contest on his blog right now for you. Prize is a game used ALDS ball.
“So, even if you assume they paid 5 other prospects 2 mil each to sign and be developed as pitchers in the time it’s taken them to generate Wang…that’s cost them what, 13 mil all told? For 400+ IP of 3.75 ERA over two years?”
i agree wang has been a great investment and that it’s the way to go investing in lots of pitchers to come up with the ones that make it. i’m really just pointing out that there is a much higher cost in developing young pitchers than just that pitcher’s bonus and minimal annual salary . your numbers show something closer to what a pitcher like wang really costs.
i think that’s all the more reason to try to sign him like cano now before he rolls out another 19 win year. because of the risk involved with injury, as has been repeatedly pointed out, it’d be smart for wang himself to set himself up for life with a contract that may be less than maximum, but way better than nothing if he has a career ending injury.
it is a different situation with pitchers than everyday players ,but wang himself knows this. he might take that into account and be asking for a deal less than we would think. or not. but i think it”d be a good move for both sides if they could come to a long term deal.
randy 1..
You are on a roll tonite! Good posting, you hit a lot of very salient points. Of course none of us know what the contract for Robby has in it. We also don’t know what is going on with CMWs contract. Hopefully, they will give CMW the money he should get. Long term for CMW…? Would you?
Also, the yanks have 3/4 catchers in the MIL…never had more then one before…maybe one will prove to be a keeper. 27/08
I don’t think the Yanks will have a problem signing Wang; the numbers both submitted were fairly similar. I get that the years might be an issue, and four is a long time, but they could easily do three with an option or whatnot.
if i were the yankees, i would wait on wang too, not too long though. I’d just make sure he gets out of ST healthy and is effective in his first few starts, then i’d try go get the same kind of deal (in lenght) as cano.
I emailed Pete about the format bug.
Damit I’ve never seen the office,
i have no shot at winning the contest.
I’ll help out my fellow pete abe blogers,
http://www.quotesfromtheoffice.com/
I took a shot and picked a quote out.
“Long term for CMW…? Would you?”
i would because i think he’s a special talent. i also don’t like, for ethical reasons, having a young pitcher like wang take all the risk on in pitching the next three years for less than market money. i know it’s the system, but look at it from wang’s point of view.
if hmmm’s numbers are right( and they probably are), then wang has made about 3 million dollars so far. by baseball standards it’s not much. if wang has a career ending injury this summer, his career earnings are over. why should he be taking all the risk while the yankees have everything to gain.
if pitchers are really so fragile, catastrophic injury is always a possibility. at this point on if wang blows a gasket, the yankees would lose a great pitcher, but little money. it’s all gravy for them from this point on .
because of wang not being set for life and the yankees being on the gravy train from now on till free agency, i would think there’s a number they could agree on somewhere in the middle. wang won’t do what i’m going to suggest, but if he simply sat out until he got a deal that safe guarded his future, he’d get the yankees’s attention.
he’s culturally not programmed to rock the boat like that, but some young pitcher who doesn’t want to roll the dice will sometime soon. if young pitching is really the most valuable thing in baseball, some young pitcher will have good reason to challenge the system and be the curt flood of his day.
This is pretty cool. Phil has a map up of where all the blog hits are from. There are people visiting his blog from Africa!!
http://www.ipligence.com/webma.....amp;a=week
Jennifer – Thanks for the website with the quotes from The Office. Good luck.
Why don’t you do that too Pete?
randy I.
You are right on CMW having all the risk. Life is not fair! Having said that, let’s get real here. CMW has made his bones already, it is time for the yanks to pony up for his future time in pinstripes. Hopefully, they will work out some sort of long term contract with him…8mm per for 4 years w/options for 2 years? 27/08.
“because of wang not being set for life and the yankees being on the gravy train from now on till free agency”
He’s already made three million dollars. He doesn’t live the high life, AND he’s a celebrity at home. Also, he’s under contract for several more years. Even if he got hurt and never pitched again, he’d get three more years of the MLB minimum (at least) and then his pension.
He’s fine, dude. I have a hard time buying your argument that it’s somehow unfair to have paid someone around 400,000 a year on average for the last seven or so years and not be bending over backwards to guarantee millions more when there’s no need to do so.
There are reasons to be cautious with Wang, beyond the fear of catastrophic injury. Waiting until midseason, or next offseason is the right thing to do.
And my figures were WAY inflated. They assumed that the Yanks had signed 5 pitchers to 2 million dollar bonuses in the last six years or so and they’d all busted. That’s not true.
Jen–I got the same thing on mine. just not as many cos I’m not nearly as famous
There really is no reason to sign Wang to any more than a two yearcontract at this point. With less than three years of service time, he still gets a healthy raise and NYY still has him under control for two years after that. It avoids arbitration next year, Wang gets a little security and NYY gets a little protection against injury or fast decline. At the end of those two years, they can look at a longer term contract of say 4 years. Wang will still only be 34 after that contract and NYY has time to evaluate him, trade him with a fairly reasonable contract. No sense in getting hamstrung with a long term contract on a pitcher until necessary.
Jen: Yes! I only have 20.000! And he’s got like 70.000!
I could complain about it not being fair, but then I don’t have to trot out to the pitcher’s mound every five days, so it evens out
i’m with you ken. this is a tough blog on giving out yankee money ahead of time. we may not get much agreement here. your numbers sound good to me, but because of the risk with pitchers i could see 6.5 million per year being a good deal too from wang’s point of view.
just looked over at hughes’ blog and noticed a link to chien ming wang’s site. not a bad site. one thing i noticed was out of 5-6 links on hughes site, one of them is a skate board link. phil, don’t even think about getting on a little board with little wheels on it.
shouldn’t your skate board days be over?
“Even if he got hurt and never pitched again, he’d get three more years of the MLB minimum”
no he wouldn’t. unless you know about some secret plan i don’t.
Also, this makes if far less likely that they trade Robbie, as he would be worth more as trade material if he were paid less, making him more attractive to another team. Now, he’s locked in long term, making probably more than he would have through arbitration.
Robinson Cano is in pinstripes into the next decade.
Randy:
~~ i know it’s the system, but look at it from wang’s point of view. ~~
why?
since when teams will be looking at it from player’s point of view?
“no he wouldn’t. unless you know about some secret plan i don’t.”
Why not? They wouldn’t cut him as long as he was working to rehab.
“Now, he’s locked in long term, making probably more than he would have through arbitration.”
Why? I figure he’d be making about the same, or maybe less. Unless he tanks.
“i know it’s the system, but look at it from wang’s point of view.” ~~
why?
since when teams will be looking at it from player’s point of view?”
the six year rule is an arbitrary rule that especially isn’t fair to pitchers. the yankees and all teams are in the drivers seat ,but since they are basing their future on developing young pitchers it’d be a nice gesture to reward young pitchers before they absolutely have to.
maybe it would buy some team loyalty and chemistry instead of an us against them when everyone should be on the same team. if you don’t get it that young pitchers are rolling the dice,i don’t know how to explain it. i know if i was someone like tim lincecum with the giants and shown that much talent, i’d sit my butt out until i got a contract that protected me.
if it’s that risky for a team to sign a good young pitcher to a long term contract, then it’s risky for that young pitcher to go out there on league minimum.
NYHunter
well, being that HE’S not the team, i think it’s probably okay if he chooses to take a look at the player’s point of view, which is not entirely superfluous, you know. A player’s point of view can contribute to a player’s performance, as well as other factors difficult to quantify. And, after all, the team MAY consider a player’s point of view, if they, too, reason that the player’s attitude toward the employer may MAY impact performance. It’s really not so far-fetched.
A bunch of you are acting like the Yankees are the only team in baseball that don’t lock up their young talent in huge contracts. NO team does this. It has nothing to do with being fair or whatever else. It has nothing to do with how much money the Yankees make. As I’ve said before…this is the reason teams want to develop good, young talent. It comes cheap.
And, Randy l. if you sat out while under contract, you probably wouldn’t get paid and no other team could have you, so you’d be out of baseball. Not a smart move.
“Why not? They wouldn’t cut him as long as he was working to rehab.”
what if he got hit off the coconut like bryce florie? i think he pitched once after that.
i’ve never had much luck in giving away yankee money on this blog. i tried to get bernie a million last winter just because i liked him. and two year contracts for posada and rivera at reasonable money last winter but was told why do that if the yankees don’t have to. well it sometimes turns out to be a bad bet for the yankees keeping their options open betting that the player will have a bad year.
i agree that the yankees wang can go another year without a long term contract for wang,but if he slips another one of those 19 win years into the equation, his price is just going to go up and up. just like rivera’s and posada’s did.
There’s something about arbitration/cost-control that feels a bit…communist
And I always thought that America (and by extension, should not the MLB too?) hates all things resembling communism at all xP
“if he slips another one of those 19 win years into the equation, his price is just going to go up and up. ”
And, if he continues to be unable to get patient hitters to swing at his sinker (a problem he was having from August on), then he’s at risk of becoming a bust.
For the Yankees, it’s MUCH worse to have an ineffective player on a long term deal than it is to wind up paying more money in the end.
The reason the Yanks will not sign Wang to a long-term deal right now is because they want to punish him for his two disastrous, season-destroying starts in the ALDS against Cleveland.
right on! whozat… I’m just about to say the same thing!
Wang’s not going to be paid major league minimum. he’s just going to go through the arbitration process each year.
There are a few reasons why signing a pitcher long term isn’t all that great a thing, mainly, what happens if he gets hurt. not from a monetary point of view, but what about the roster? if he ends up with a career ending injury, and ends up sitting on the 40 taking a place, i.e. pavano, then what would we all be saying?
so long as you have him ‘locked up’, why not take it year to year? he’ll progressively make more money per year, if he continues pitching as he has, he just won’t have it guaranteed (besides the pension)
on a side note, i tend to dislike it when people talk about players making the minimum like they’re somehow not making a good living. i’d love to be making over $400,000 a year, and i’m pretty sure most people here would too.
BTW, if Wang wins another 19 + wins this season, and pitches well in the postseason, lock him up for 4/40 then… I don’t care!
But right now? no…..
“on a side note, i tend to dislike it when people talk about players making the minimum like they’re somehow not making a good living. i’d love to be making over $400,000 a year, and i’m pretty sure most people here would too.”
Oh, totally, that we’d love to make over 400k
But I presume that when ‘unfair’ is used, it’s a whole different context, or paradigm
At the players/owner axis, why shouldn’t the players make more money if the sport is allegedly raking in so much?
After all, the players are the show that the fans are feeding the machine for… xP
Eh, way I see it, money is the root of all evil.
Though it can also be glorious, when you have it.
Is Gil Patterson still with the Yankees?
I was cooking and half listening to YES tonight and they said something about Gil Patterson and Oakland. Did I hear wrong or did I miss that he left the Yankees?
Hey, Pete closed that dangling strong tag, nice
I normally bag on money for being the ‘root’ of evil out of convenience/fun
But really, it’s more like the avatar or carrier for it; the real root is the concept of possession/ownership
Guys, I am working on coding my own blog (Not using existing software) would you mind going to my site and clicking around and send me feedback (Bugs, broken stuff, etc)
There are a few posts there now, but mostly for just filler until I get some bugs fixed.
All feedback welcome.
http://www.hankeestadium.com
Fleas – 2 words, Google Adwords. It’s free money!
let’s not forget Wang has guaranteed himself another $4M even if he never throws another pitch.
he has to be signed for this season, and his contract is going to be somewhere around $4M. that will happen within the next 2 weeks.
does that make us feel a little better?
“if you sat out while under contract, you probably wouldn’t get paid and no other team could have you, so you’d be out of baseball. Not a smart move.”
on the other hand, my right arm that threw 97 mph bullets, like linceum’s arm does ,would be healthy and fine because i wouldn’t be risking it. do you really think that the giants wouldn’t be freaking out if lincecum sat out until he had some protection. i’ll bet the giants would blink before lincecum would if he was really determined.
a few years ago , a young player could buy long term insurance to protect themselves. not any more. teams can’t either. it’s just a hole in the system. this is getting farther and farther away from wang’s situation because wang will wait it out in his arbitration years if he has too. he’s not going to be the rebel who goes against the system, but someone( probably a boras client) will do it in the next ten years. guaranteed.
raysmagnetic
Yeah, but I don’t do it for the money
Humor is pay enough!
“he(wang) has to be signed for this season, and his contract is going to be somewhere around $4M. that will happen within the next 2 weeks.
does that make us feel a little better?”
good point. four million is a definite jump up from the 400 thousand or so he’s been getting.
Fleas – looks pretty good, man. My only suggestion is maybe change the background color of the tables for your sidebar blocks to give the page some contrast with all the black going on. Of course, that may be part of your work in progress, seeing that you are a developer. Good job, though – especially since you are coding it all and not using a template from software.
This is great news! Sign that man up long term.
http://www.baseballprospectus......chatId=410
Tony (Brooklyn, NY): Robinson Cano’s PECOTA? Does he project to be a high-variability player? Thanks!
Nate Silver: He’s not particuarly high-variability. He’s either going to be a pretty good ballplayer like Carlos Baerga or a really freakin’ good ballplayer like … someone better than Carlos Baerga. The scenarios where he crashes and burns are pretty much off the table at this point.
This is the last bit from Jon Heyman’s article on Cano’s imminent deal:
New York also was nearing completion of a minor league contract with backup infielder Chris Woodward. If added to the major league roster, he would get a one-year deal for $700,000 while in the majors and $120,000 while in the minors.
Woodward hit .199 in 136 at-bats for the Atlanta Braves last year. The nine-year big league veteran could earn an additional $200,000 in performance bonuses, getting the full amount for 325 plate appearances.
Fleas: you’re the one who didn’t know how to spell “imbecile”?
Yes, I am an awful speller. It’s never been something I am good at. I’ve always been good at math though. I guess that is why I enjoy programming? I don’t have a degree either, just years of on-the-job experience and a few courses in community college.
I don’t think you have to be good at spelling to be smart. My fiancee has a masters from Harvard and her spelling is worse than mine!
Thanks for all the feedback about my blog!
If anyone wants to throw some feedback my way, my blog can always use it. Got some results from a recent Santana poll on my blog.
http://bronx-bomberz.blogspot.com/