Pinch hitting: Pinstripes PA
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jan 27, 2008 
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The guest blogger rotation has five spots left. Next up is Dan from Pinstripes PA.
Dan, an aspiring sportswriter, is studying English and communications at the University of Scranton. He is set to begin an internship with the Scranton Times-Tribune next month.
Here’s his post:
Amidst the debates surrounding Joba Chamberlain’s role with the Yankees next season, fans, bloggers and analysts alike seem to be forgetting a very logical option that could appease both parties and help strengthen the Yankees pitching staff.
It’s easy to understand each side of the Chamberlain argument. Those in favor of using Joba in the pen envision a strong Yankee relief corps that will help make tight games a seven-inning contest. They feel that 60-70 appearances would influence the overall record more than the 150 innings Joba would likely record as a starter, plus he would be groomed as the heir to Mariano Rivera.
Meanwhile, those in favor of using Joba in the rotation see an ace in the making and the potential for an incredibly deep Yankee rotation now, and in the future. They don’t want to see Chamberlain’s talent wasted in a relief role, and they want to maximize his development as soon as possible.
Both arguments are quite sound, but logic dictates that Chamberlain would be better suited for the rotation, even if it does weaken the bullpen. A pitching prospect with his potential and stuff belongs in the rotation, mainly because a league average relievers (4.47 ERA) are a dime a dozen; or in this case, $11 million a year.
Enter Mike Mussina.
Yankee fans watched as Moose’s effectiveness quickly diminish during the 2007 season. His fastball no longer hovered around the high 80s, and his breaking stuff seemed flat.
His endurance also became a major issue. Mussina averaged 5.6 innings per start last season, signifying a drop in the six inning average he posted from 2004-2006. Out of his 27 starts, Mussina only went more than six innings seven times.
Interestingly, Mussina averaged a 3.37 ERA in the first two innings of his first 20 starts, but after throwing 111 innings, he hit a wall. In his next seven starts, Mussina posted a 9.89 ERA during the first two innings.
Although examining only the first two innings doesn’t really indicate that he’d make an efficient bullpen arm, his deflating endurance suggests that Mussina is now better suited as a reliever.
On the surface, the move would lower Mussina’s chances of an injury and keep him fresh; but it could also increase the velocity of his fastball. Many starters encounter a slight increase in velocity after shifting to the pen, simply because they no longer have to pace themselves for six innings.
Given the context of the situation, Moose would have little to whine about. A successful move to the bullpen and stellar numbers during the season would surely help him get another contract, thus extending his career. It’ll also leave Yankee fans with a good taste in their mouth: Mussina sacrificing his needs and (or) wants for the good of the team, and the good of the future.
With three young pitchers in the rotation, and each limited to a certain number of innings, the Yankees will need a legitimate inning-eating reliever. One that can post 90 innings, make a spot start, or throw two innings in a tight game.
The key to this move is killing several birds with one giant stone. The transition would keep Moose fresh, and his durability would no longer be a major concern. He’d help create a stronger bullpen while allowing the Three Musketeers to start, and they would in turn help create a stronger rotation. Meanwhile, an extra roster spot would be opened up for a bench player.
Theoretically, moving Chamberlain to the pen would decrease his overall value, but moving Mussina to the pen would also increase his.
Either way, the hard part would probably be approaching Mussina with the idea.
Personally, I think Joba might actually be better suited for the bullpen, but it would be a far worse crime to not try him in the starter’s role.
Mussina would be an excellent option, but I don’t know if he’d take kindly to the suggestion.
Excellent post, best of luck with the internship!
Pretty good point but i’m not sure it’ll work out. I think Girardi will have to make an appointment by the moose three day’s before he wants him to pitch an inning.
I actually met Mussina today, and he said that although he hated it at the time, his move to the pen in 07 overall helped him for the long run, but he’s hoping to stay in the roation the whole year in 2008.
Samantha, how was the dinner? I went a few years ago and it was a really great time.
Thanks for the post Dan, it made a lot of sense. Now expect Moose to hunt you down.
Good luck in school and with your career.
Because of the innings-caps on the kids, Moose will be starting significantly more games than many Yankee fans think.
In theory, this idea does make some sense. However, I don’t think Moose will be making many appearances out of the pen this season.
Don’t be surprised if Moose makes 20+ starts in 2008.
definitely agree. moose could be a good swingman.
Yeah how was the dinner. I went last year, couldn’t make it this year. Did he say anything else interesting?
Did he say if he’d have one next year?
LOL, this is classic theorizing from a person who has no real familiarity with players. If you knew ANYTHING about Mike Mussina outside his numbers, you’d realize he would never, EVER be effective out of the bullpen because he is literally insane. We’re talking about a guy who freaks out when he’s on four or six days of rest instead of five… do you really think he could deal with the possibility of being used on any given night? Mike Mussina is a headcase and a half, and expecting him to go from a starter to a reliever at this point in his career is insane. All we can hope for is that he’s stuck to some sort of rigorous workout regimen this off-season and that he’s capable of being league-average this year.
um Wang did you even read what the person said who went? He realizes now that the extra rest helps him. That may have been the case 2 years ago but it isn’t anymore.
And he is not insane! As I’ve stated numerous times here. I’ve met him, he is actually very nice when he is in a situation he is comfortable in. Maybe he isn’t comfortable around 15 reporters? Ever think of that?
Samantha, did he say what he thought about Joe T leaving and Joe G managing?
I kinda disagree with the endurance thing–I think he was taken out of games so early because of ineffectiveness, not because of his diminished endurance.
dan, I agree, but also remember that Joe was very quick to pull pitchers out of games without really giving them a chance to work out of it.
dan, I agree, but also remember that Joe was very quick to pull pitchers out of games without really giving them a chance to work out of it.
————————————————————-
One of the reasons the bullpen gets run into the ground each year, but not anymore or so we hope.
Dan – congrats on the internship. And judging by your excellent post, you’ve chosen the right career path.
I’m all for the Yankees exploring different ways to utilize Mussina this year. I think he still has a little bit left in the tank, especially after seeing how he responded to being dumped from the rotation last year. He came back and pitched some of the best ball we’ve seen from him in the last couple of years. Moose has been one of my favorite pitchers that the Yankees picked up in the last ten years or so. That having been said, I do think it’s time for him to realize he appears to be on the downswing of his career – unless of course he comes out of ST this year able to prove that appearance to be wrong. Based on that, he needs to be open to different scenarios than he has been used to.
A couple of months ago, I sat down trying to figure out what I would do with the Yankee pitching core if it were up to me. This was when the excitement of the “young three” started to pick up steam after Kennedy made his debut. Making the assumption that Moose and anybody outside of Wang/Pettitte/Joba/Phil/IPK would have to really fight to earn a rotation spot in 2008, I thought Mike would be best suited for working out of the pen. Matter of fact, the two name I felt like pencilling in were his and Ohlendorf’s. Ollie seemed to get his stuff together once they tried him out in a bullpen role in the minors and with the Yanks.
However, as Giuseppe pointed out, Moose is more than likely to make starts with the way the roster sits at the moment. If he can adjust to the idea of being a spot starter to assist the implementation of the innings caps for the young pitchers as well as eat up some innings out of the pen, I think he could be make a solid contribution this year.
Why is there a belief that Joba is better in the pen.He really didn’t look dominate 2 days in a row.Couldn’t fight bugs and we don’t know if he can pitch 3 days straight.Or 2 in one day.To try to replace Mariano a once in a lifetime player,a reliever who will be the only first ballot hall of famer you need to pitch one whole year.
BTW – if anybody is interested in seeing the Lebron James “Yankee” shoes, I’ve got a quick blurb up on my blog with a picture. The blog post includes a link to a thread in the forums with more pictures as well.
http://www.clubbronx.com/weblog.php?w=1
Thank you very much for the kind words. I debated over several differnt topics, but I felt this one would at least be something different.
Sorry if I don’t get back to many of your comments, I’m in the process of packing for school, and I’m travelling tomorrow, but I’ll try.
Thanks again for this opportunity Pete, and thank you fans for making the blogging community so great.
Dan great post. But the idea of moving Moose to the pen is almost like sending Wang to the minors. Moose has started for a long time now telling him to change that in a year that probably will be his last doesn’t seem right. I agree that he had bad starts and that it might be easier on him a pen role but unless he shows up at spring training looking horrible he is and should start. Joba in the pen part of the year seems like the best solution to that innings problem. Wonder what to do with Phil’s innings count. Phil would probably have to be used in long relief the parts of the year he doesn’t start because his power is not near that of what a pen pitcher should be. May this year be a great one for everything. Will
Dan,
Great post! Great idea and very well written. Now if Moose will only be a team first guy, we’ll have it made! And, if he does well, he may end up with way more innings when the young ones reach their innings limit.
Good luck on your internship!
Moose is the best, unless an outfielder commits an error and blows an inning for him.
Just kidding.
Moose deserves kudos for handling the reassignment last year. For the most part he was effective. I only recall one bad outing after the change.
HOWEVER, unless we want to hear the “How could the Yankees disrespect Moose and at that pay scale?” accusations, he’s going to have a structured, defined role.
If Moose is the 6th best pitcher out of ST, make him the 5th starter. Ian will have the highest inning count, so have him be your 4th starter. Joba and Phil fill out the number 3 spot. For half the season, one will start and the other works out of the pen. Phil as middle relief and Joba as setup/closer. They would flip roles in the second half of the season. There have been arguments for Joba in the pen for the first half and for the second half. If he’s in the pen in the first half, then one of the fireballer prospects might be ready to step up in the second half.
Being the 5th starter will have Moose on a less than regular schedule, but it’s better than working as a long reliever. Once upon a time an irregular Moose was a grumpy and ineffective Moose. But like he said, the move ultimately helped him and he proved he could be effective.
There will be second guessing no matter what Cashman (yes, despite all the flap over Bernie-gate, he’s still the GM) and Girardi do. But at least it’ll be interesting.
The wrench in the whole deal is, who do we bump when Cashman manages to steal Santana?
One more good entry from the PH.
Now: the characterizations of Mike Mussina based on meager acquaintance, articles & a couple of blowups ( w/good reason )are humorous. Not all ballplayers have an emotional age of 12.He’s one of the most intelligent men in MLB & just because he’s sensitive about his biorhythms based on his self-awareness, he’s a flake? Is this a throwback to the era when any ballplayer caught reading a book was called Professor and worse, thought to be unmanly?
I’m betting Mussina reinvents himself, having evaluated his age & stage of his career. I sure hope so.
Well-said Juke.
Note too that although it hardly is enough to demonstrate much, Mussina did have a relief appearance for the Yankees before 2007. In game 7 of the ALCS against Boston he relieved Clemens with the Yankees down 4-0 and runners on first and third. This was just 3 days after he started game 4, losing but going 6.2 innings (95 pitches) and allowing 6 hits, 3 runs, 2 walks and 10 Ks. In that game 7, he then struck out Varitek and got Damon to hit into a double play. He finished 3 innings allowing 0 runs and striking out 3 to keep the Yankees alive in a game they eventually won.
One of the more silly criticisms of Mussina is that he is not a good post-game pitcher. As a matter of fact, he has been quite effective in post-season play, although he has a losing record (7-8) overall. In 18 world series innings he has a 3.00 ERA with 5 walks and 23 Ks. And overall in the post-season, he has pitched 139.2 innings to a 3.42 ERA with 33 walks and 145 Ks.
Great post, and don’t forget…for some reason, players going into FA years, seem to have good ones.
Also, with the three young guys, there will be a need for Moose…if all three open the year in the Bronx/starting rotation.
This is the first time since he was an Oriole rookie that Mussina goes to spring training without a defined role.
If this is to be his final year in baseball, he has a chance to accept whatever role is offered, earn his $11.5 salary and be a contributor or be asked to waive his no-trade clause to accept a deal to the Phillies or Mets to be close to his home in Penn.
Dan: Nice post. Good luck in school.
“He’s one of the most intelligent men in MLB & just because he’s sensitive about his biorhythms based on his self-awareness, he’s a flake? Is this a throwback to the era when any ballplayer caught reading a book was called Professor and worse, thought to be unmanly?”
All players have biorhythms and every professional athlete is completely attuned to whatever their body is telling them on a day to day basis. But that’s not the same as being self-aware. I have no idea how high Moose’s IQ is. What I do know is that there’s intelligence and there’s emotional intelligence and the latter is frequently the more important attribute. Managing your own emotions and those of others around you requires raw intelligence but also an extra dimension of self awareness. Clearly, for all the talk of Mussina’s high IQ, he is not very good at managing his own emotions and the emotions of those around him. That hurts him and his team.
For example, Mussina’s head takes him out of the game when he doesn’t get a strike called. He gets overly frustrated and tries to show up the umpire with a staring contest, failing to control himself and inciting the emotions of the authority figure on the field. Or how about when someone blows a defensive play and Mike has to pitch to another batter or two to get out of an inning? He’s coiled like a snake instead of rolling with it, showing up his teammate instead of bravely picking him up – - which it is his job to do.
It’s not about manliness or unmanliness; it’s about being able to roll with the punches and bad calls and still be effective. I like Mussina as a pitcher and I respect what he’s done and think he can still be effective in the right role. But give me a dumb country boy with a rubber arm any day.
“I’m betting Mussina reinvents himself, having evaluated his age & stage of his career. I sure hope so.”
Maybe you’re right, but I have seen no evidence that would lead anyone to reasonably anticipate such an occurrence.
Nope sorry the moose will never be given that role. He has been for the most part a great starting pitcher for many years. He will retire one.
Dan, great post…good luck in school and with your chosen profession.
One thing missing from your article; Moose wants to have a chance to win 300 games. Spending his time in the PB would wast another (pitching) year. I do agree with the move, because…it makes a lot of since. I do believe the yanks have already thought these things through and hopefully Joe can make a good pitch to Moose, which ever way they want to use him.
On a side note: Is Joba working out with the other young guns? He better come into ST in good shape. He has been making the rounds this winter.
yanks don’t need to worry about a long-term solution to setting up Mo. Mark Melancon will be the eighth inning answer after the All-Star Break. We can keep his seat warm for 3.5 months. Joba is a starter.
Like all the pinch-hitters for Pete, a good post.
1. Re: Joba in the ‘pen – Would you have put a young Roger Clemens (circa 1984 or so) in the bullpen?
2. Re: Moose in the ‘pen as a swingman- Sounds like a much better idea. Will it happen? I think it more likely to work out – between innings pitched and minor injuries – that starters get skipped here and there during the season. As I recall, the Tigers skipped some of Verlander’s starts and that’s seemed to have worked out OK.
Great post Dan. Your point makes lots of sense, but I can only hope that Mussina agrees with you, because, as many have previously said, he hates the bullpen. He can be a spot starter to fill in the innings caps for the Big 3, but he’d probably hate the inconsistency.
Joba has been working out with phil hughes and alan horne I read the other day. I wonder where IPK is. Maybe he’s spending the few days he has before spring training with his wife. But I’m sure he’s making sure to keep in shape 2008 will be a great year for him and the yankees. I checked his stats he is pretty good at strikenuts has about 12+ K’s for 9 innings. I don’t know why some people sell him low Well maybe it’s because they sell pitchers like wang low too.
“Strikenuts” strikeouts
I think most fans would agree that Joba’s long term contributions to the team will be as a starter, but why are people so opposed to him filling the 8th inning void for another year? With the inning caps and crowded rotation, somebody is going to have to pitch out of the bullpen. We already know Joba can do it – and do it well. And for those who think that pitching in the bullpen is wasting his potential as a starter, take a look at the careers of Pedro, Santana, Schilling, Halladay, Haren, Carmona, Zambrano, Escobar, Rogers, etc, etc…all of those guys spent considerable time in the bullpen before being eased into full time starting roles.
I think it would be a mistake to send Moose to the pen. I think he still got some decent starts in him. The rotation should be like this : 1. Wang 2. Pettitte 3. Kennedy (since he has the least innings limit or maybe even none at all) 4. Mussina 5. Hughes or Joba (depending on which point of the year). Some might move Moose to the 5th spot but this is how it should look.
mussina’s biggest problem is that he tries to trick hitters and never challenges them with inside pitches to keep them off the plate. he competes with his limited warfare approach, but his refusal to move hitters off the the plate is an indulgence that he can no longer afford.
maybe moving him around in different roles would send him the message that he needs to make some changes. it’s not a bad idea.
Mussina may have a few decent starts in him still, which would be fine if the Yankees need a spot starter, but I get the feeling that he doesn’t have enough starts in him to go a full season.
Only one real way to find out, though…
Joba as an 8th innings setup man is not a waste but as a starter 18-26 times throughout the year would add so much more.
http://www.twincities.com/dail.....ck_check=1
“The Twins, New York Mets, Boston Red Sox or New York Yankees are not holding up the proposed trade of Twins pitcher Johan Santana. It’s Santana, who is seeking $150 million over six years.
Santana has the right, by way of a no-trade contract clause, to veto any deal with a team that won’t pay him what he wants.
A trade is expected to occur within 10 days, though.
The Mets, who dearly want Santana, have told at least one free-agent pitcher hoping to sign with them to wait until they find out whether they can acquire the two-time Cy Young Award winner. The Twins, as they should, continue to insist that slugging young outfielder Fernando Martinez, the Mets’ top minor league prospect, be included in any deal.
“Martinez will show how badly the Mets want Santana,” one insider said.
The Red Sox haven’t moved much from their initial offer for Santana. But one minor leaguer who some would consider a throw-in by Boston – left-handed hitting outfielder Ryan Kalish – could become an important part of a deal. Francisco Liriano, remember, was considered a throw-in when the San Francisco Giants included him in the Twins’ trade for Joe Nathan.
The Yankees continue to vacillate on whether to include pitcher Phil Hughes in a deal for Santana. One day he’s in, another day he’s out. The Twins do not consider the Yankees out of contention.
“
I think that Mussina will be valuable as a spot starter. As for all season in the bullpen, I don’t think that he has the mentality for that.
From spring training until mid-May will show what Joba’s 2008 will be about. It all depends on who steps up as the set-up man. If Kennedy and Mussina are showing enough and the set-up role is questionable, Joba can slide in until Melancon is ready.
whatevered…
Thanks for the heads up on Joba.
As far as IPK goes, again I say; seeing him at the MIL level and in the bigs, he has batters shaking their heads on the way back to the dugout saying things like “He ain’t got nottun”. Just like they use to say when they faced Eddie Lopat in the old days.
Randy I
The Moose did pitch inside after his time in the BP. We (all of us…I think) have said for a long time that he has to come inside. Maybe he listened to Kitty Kaat.
“We’re talking about a guy who freaks out when he’s on four or six days of rest instead of five…”
really?
did you know that four days rest was normal rest for a starting pitcher?
your comment makes no sense.
I’d like to see Moose shipped out before the season starts. He’s really only got about a 1/4 of a season in that arm.
When I saw Mike Mussina pitch in Spring Training last year I told my wife, “he’s so slow, I could hit him”. Unfortunately, every batter who faces Mike Mussina has a good shot of hitting him,as his .310 batting average against confirms. He now has an 88mph fastball that is basically throw the same speed as his breaking pitches. There’s not enough difference in velocity to fool anybody.
Mussina only serves to complicate matters for the’08 Yankees.
This comes from Buster Olney’s blog:
What the Twins probably really want is for Hank Steinbrenner’s seeming impetuosity to take root in the Yankees’ front office.
• And speaking of which: Hank Steinbrenner offered some words that will be interpreted as a warning shot at GM Brian Cashman. From the piece:
“Steinbrenner pledged to be patient with the Yankees’ young pitchers, but also issued what could be interpreted as a warning to Brian Cashman that the GM better be right in not wanting to trade for Johan Santana.
“It is Cashman, as well as Hal Steinbrenner, who so far has convinced Hank not to trade Phil Hughes and other prospects to the Twins for Santana.
“‘I will be patient with the young pitchers and players,’ Steinbrenner said. ‘There’s no question about that because I know how these players develop. But as far as missing the playoffs — if we miss the playoffs, I don’t know how patient I’ll be.
“‘But it won’t be against the players. It won’t be a matter of that. It will be a matter of, maybe certain people in the organization could have done something else.’”
wolf thanks for the link, I hope there wasn’t at TM infirngement on the #23.
“‘But it won’t be against the players. It won’t be a matter of that. It will be a matter of, maybe certain people in the organization could have done something else.’â€
*****************************************
Maybe Hank has forgotten; GM can only get the players needed to win…he can’t hit etc. for them.
Granted, Cash has made some bad choices. He has made some good ones too. Point being, they (as a team) need to play a lot better then they have in the POs.
Also (as someone pointed out) Sant wants to much money/years, along with the demands of the twins.
Boy, I sure overstayed my welcome. Don’t answer that! 27/08
One can only do what one can.
Yep, Mike needs to learn to pitch inside. Hitters know that he nevers pitches inside and get comfortable. That would give him some added benefit.
OOOOPS!
Also (as someone pointed out) Sant wants to much money/years, along with the demands of the twins. One can only do what one can.
Boy, I sure overstayed my welcome. Don’t answer that!
Sorry Folks, I finally joined the 20/21st century and got a computer. So, “I ain’t got no learnings yet.” 27/08
Buddy: vestiges of the father, no?
Rebecca-
Exactly! I wished the interviewer would have asked but Hank you already offered to extend Cashman’s deal, so the choice to stay or leave is really in Cashman’s hands. Cashman doesn’t have to be concerned with being fired during the season, b/c in essence he could be firing the Yanks.
Thank you again for the kind words, the criticism and the different outlooks. Also, thanks for not burning me alive. I was a bit scared of that, but you have all been great.
Sorry I could not answer more of your questions, its been a busy travel day.
““‘I will be patient with the young pitchers and players,’ Steinbrenner said. ‘There’s no question about that because I know how these players develop. But as far as missing the playoffs — if we miss the playoffs, I don’t know how patient I’ll be.”
i’ve generally been of the “wait and see” opinion on Hank, but this is such a stupid thing to say and it scares me a bit.
what would have happened if the Red Sox cleaned house after missing the playoffs in 2006?
i don’t think the yankees will miss the playoffs this year, but i don’t think it’s a secret that the Yankees know that 2008 will have some bumps in the road as they transition in more and more of their young pitchers.
i don’t think Cashman is asking Hank for a 5 year rebuilding plan. he’s simply asking for a little patience in 2008, with a TON of optimism for 2009.
even if all 3 of the young pitchers don’t work out, there WILL be a lot of talent on the FA market next year.
that’s simply the reality of the situation. this off-season was not a good time to be a buyer, the market is super-thin. sometimes it’s best to save your chips and money for another day.
Feb 20th…
Off to Tampa, the women are kicking me south for fishing and baseball. See some of you at ST. I’ll be the old guy with the (Army)Ranger hat. See you then, maybe. Done posting for while, sick person in the family and all that.27/08
Jennifer, Mussina said that he wish Torre stayed, but he likes Girardi. Also he was talking about going to college, and he said he had no idea at the time he’d be pitching professionally past age 40. He’s 38 now, so I guess he only plans to retire in a few years. And sorry I took so long to reply!
Good post, you have the right idea in my opinion. One of the most valuable statistics for pitchers is Innings Pitched. Joba as a started would have many many more innings pitched than joba as a reliever. It’s pretty simple that Joba in the rotation brings much more value to the team. About Moose, I agree he should be used as a long relief/spot starter throughout the season. Although with the innings cap on Joba, Phil and Ian, Moose will probably have to pitch at LEAST 15 starts and possibly more depending on if Cashman wants to use Horne or any other minor leaguers.
Samantha he was talking about going back to college? I’m confused?
Great idea!!!!
I HAVE BEEN CALLING FOR MUSSINA IN THE BULLPEN SINCE THE MIDDLE OF THE 2007 SEASON!!!
The great part about it would be his ability to not only relieve but to fill in on spot starts and give the young studs some off time.
If the Yankees don’t seriously consider this— they are crazy
this idea is brilliant. and perhaps, now that we’ve gotten rid of the dinosaur torre who wouldnt have given this idea creedence in a million years, we’ll see it come to fruition. moose could be a valuable bullpen guy – perhaps in the mendoza role.
Dan,
Great post, and good luck with the internship and the career. You really are a terrific writer, and the idea was great. Hope to see you covering the Yankees along side Pete one day.
Jennifer, I think Samantha meant that Mike talked about his college years. There is always a question and answer part and someone asked about his college days.
Good luck with Mike *Structure is my Life* Mussina going to a reliever role but it looks great on paper
Congrats with your internship!