Today in the Journal News
-
- January
- 27
Bernie Williams has an issue with Brian Cashman’s comments and plans to speak with him about it.
The annual BBWAA dinner is tonight in Manhattan. Though hosted by the writers, this is a social event and we won’t be interviewing anybody. Alex Rodriguez, Joe Girardi, Johnny Damon, Joba Chamberlain and Goose Gossage are expected to attend along with Craig Biggio, Billy Wagner, Bobby Murcer, Dustin Pedroia, C.C. Sabathia, Jake Peavy, Jimmy Rollins, Eric Wedge, Bob Melvin and Ryan Braun.
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on Sunday, January 27th, 2008 at 12:37 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Peter Abraham
Well, even if it might be true (spending more time on the music), I don’t think… at this point… it’s Cashman’s business to say. Maybe if Bernie were still a starter on the team, ya know? Thoughts?
Anyway, Bedard needs to get out of our division!! haha It seems it could be by next week:
http://mlbfleecefactor.com/2008/01/27/orioles-rumors-brian-roberts-erik-bedard/
I love the comments by Cashman. I guess Bernie’s ego is in the way of him realizing that he sucked his last couple of years.
Ask Jimmy who’s got the best infield in baseball?
Howard/Utley/Rollins/(someone crappy)
or
ARod/Jeter/Cano/ Platoon
I think the strength of the Yanks Platoon VS. Wes Helms or whatever they got puts the bombers over the top.
So guys, I need ten pages of my thesis done for Friday and I have about a paragraph.
Care to motivate me?
See if Damon is in better shape then he was this time last year. If not, don’t let him have any cake.
It was not Bernie Williams’s music career that caused any ball hit to either his left or to his right to be played into a two base hit.
Rebecca,
Less is more is less…... less time spent on thesis= more time spent at school= less time spent in Yankeeland….... any questions?
Dirk: That makes sense, thank you!
Cashman’s comments (while most likely true) were unnecessary.
lost in all of this Bernie brouhaha, is how awesome the Cano contract turned out to be.
pardon me if it was discussed in earlier threads, but those option years (and the fact that they ARE options) make this a pretty great deal for the Yankees.
contrast his deal with the one the Twins gave Morneau.
Joba shows up everywhere, while Phil is down training. Hope this means nothing but just saying.
JDnotDrew: Joba is not also recovering from a hamstring and ankle injury.
“Joba shows up everywhere, while Phil is down training. Hope this means nothing but just saying.”
I’m also pretty sure I’ve read that Joba’s down there already too. But he got invited up for this thing for whatever reason. Also…I’m pretty sure his appearances are Yankee orchestrated, so…it’s kind of hard to fault him for that.
Wow. It’s easy to see how it can become a Phil/Joba thing just like Alex/Jeter. They’re all Yankees and thus there’s no comparison or competition.
Agreed with mel.
“Brian
I love the comments by Cashman. I guess Bernie’s ego is in the way of him realizing that he sucked his last couple of years.”
How said that Brian Cashman has to put a comment here
Agree with mel though I figure it could come out to be a Hughes-Joba-IPK thing (since Joba and IPK are such great friends already). You never know this new yankees is the next 10 years maybe (Cano, Cabrera) (Joba, IPK,[Hughes]) and maybe (Horne,Brackman) (Ajax, Tabata). Do you know of any other pairs of friends probably coming up soon?
i heard Chucky Knob is going to be at the dinner… probably dressed as a bus boy to lay low
“and maybe (Horne,Brackman) (Ajax, Tabata). Do you know of any other pairs of friends probably coming up soon?”
Are any of those guys friends? Horne is 25 and in AA, Brackman is 21 and hasn’t played a game in the Yankee system. Tabata and Jackson played several years together…but Tabata came over as a 16 year old who didn’t speak any english…
“Wow. It’s easy to see how it can become a Phil/Joba thing just like Alex/Jeter.”
Both the media and fans have a need to create storylines.
I have been trying to come to some conclusions on a possible problem this winter, and I can’t come up with any…. If CC or Johan reach the market in October, who would the Yankees try to sign first….. CC, Johan, or Cashman? I realize that Johan and or CC might be off the table, but what if one or both are available and the Yankees haven’t signed Cashman yet? Do they let Oppenheimer make an offer to one of these guys or will Steinbrothers try to do something themselves?
Yes, I know that it is a long time before next winter, but I like to look ahead on what could be:)
Bernie was done, only his huge ego was left.
JONES
Cashman was smart enough to realize that Bernie was all done, too bad Bernie’s ego blinded him to the same truth
“Cashman”
Cashman. Those guys would have the window of time during which they can only negotiate with their old teams. The Yankees wouldn’t go without a GM for that whole time…it’s like…a month long. They’d either re-sign Cash, or sign someone else, and then whoever it is would go after whatever needs the team has.
whozat,
good point—- didn’t think about the negotiation period….. Hopefully, Cashman doesn’t leave the team hanging and quickly re-signs.
About Ajax and Tabata (he knows english) I read about them being somewhat friends. About Horne and Brackman I don’t know if they are friends but I read that they are working out Together so I assume they will be or are friends.
Santana, CHARLEY WALTERS: Minnesota Twins could trade Santana within 10 daysat last
hey are any of you guys thinking about staking out the BBWAA dinner?
GO PLAY YOUR GUITAR BERNIE! Youve made millions playing a kid’s game, please retire quietly. BYE!
cupaJoba: If I was close, I would have strongly contemplated buying tickets, especially if a friend was going, but alas, I am 300 miles north and west.
haha, someone posted a fake yankees/santana rumor on metsblog and they all freaked out.
Bernie’s huge ego was stroked by Torre constantly…and even Cash brought up how Bernie was consistently played over better talent. Bernie’s last good year was 2002, then everything after was pretty weak. I think Cashman was just sick of people asking about Bernie and figured enough time had passed to give his real assessment.
Hey Peter, can you try to get us an update on how Bobby Murcer is feeling?
i think i know why the bernie/cashmnan feud presses peoples buttons from both sides and in the middle. it’s hard to put into words, but i’ll give it a try.
brian cashman is represents the best of people who have never played the game while bernie williams represents the best of players who have played the game. there are better people than either in their respective role , but they are both up there in their respective role.
here’s the problem; baseball is entering a new era where there is knowledge in the game that doesn’t come from experience playing the game. statistical analysis is as much a part of baseball as it is a part of every day life. the problem is that there is now a battle for who is in charge.
the whole phenomenon of ivy league gms is a relatively new thing. there have been as many flame outs as there are successes(see depodesta), and the best front offices have a balance of both old school experience and new school statistical analysis.
what side someone is on of the cashman vs. bernie feud falls consistent with their views on whether old school power based on playing experience or new school power based on statistical analysis matters most.
it’s kind of how someone someone checks the weather. do they stick their head out the door to see if it’s raining or do they go on their computer to look at the doppler radar to tell them what’s happening , or do they do both.
both things tell something about the weather that the other doesn’t. put both things together and you’ll have a better idea of what’s happening and will be happening in the future.
on this blog ,we come to our baseball knowledge in different ways. on one extreme some have played the game lot and on the other extreme some have experienced the game from watching and analyzing numbers about the game.
thats no problem on the surface until it has to be decided which way is better and which way should be in charge. in the game today billy beane is the best gm of putting both sides together. he played at a relatively high level and he embraces statistical analysis.
personally, i lean towards management by people who have played the game. playing is where my knowledge base comes from. but at the same time, i realize that there are patterns and numerical relationships that others see that doesn’t come from playing the game.
when someone like cashman takes a strong stance against a player, i think fans, management, and players alike take the side of where they have their knowlege base of the game.
my first uncensored reaction when cashman bashes a player is what does that little piss ant glorified coffee gofer know about someone like bernie williams. i react to bill james that way. to hank steinbrenner. basically to anyone who wears a business suit. and that includes sports writers too.
if you don’t think most mlb players( who have played infinitely more than i ever did) feel that same way ,you’d be mistaken. they are smart enough to not let it out to either management or fans, but it’s there beneath the surface. the tension that everyone feels from this cashman/williams feud is the tension that comes from this dynamic.
it is often played out as a clash of cultures that pits the older generation that is strong on experience with the younger generation that is strong on technology.
what someone’s opinion on whether bernie was worth keeping depended on whether they knew what terms like ops+ or vorp or some other sabermetric term meant or whether someone’s opinion was based on a lifetime of old school experience.
old school vs. new school is to a large degree what this is really about. it’s not an easy subject so we get things going all over the charts. i know myself with the time i have put in the game on the field and off , i’ll never back down to someone is all new school or be afraid to compete with them in a debate. they feel the same way.
at the same time, i’m not going to make like technology and statistics don’t exist. or have no respect for people who have a great statistical understanding of the game.
where do fans come down in this battle for power from players who have played the game and statistical analyst professional types who haven’t?
both sides need the fans so no one is going to say that fans don’t know much. the reality is often individually that they don’t( they can’t play well and they can’t do analysis well), but here’s where this blogging thing gets interesting. there is a wisdom of crowds that makes the general baseball IQ of a site like this pretty high.
where the general consensus of this site ends up on the cashman/bernie feud will come close to where the truth is.
if cashman is as smart as he appears, he’ll pay attention to what sites like this one think.
Uh. Guys.
http://www.lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/misc?URL=/misc/register_zago.pbs&Category=zago&Destination=http%3A//www.lohud.com/blogs/lohudmets.html
Is this dinner going to be televised? iI would loooooove to watch it!!
This has been blown so far out of proportion…...just another slow news day in NYC, I guess.
I just got Shelley Duncan’s autograph! He was signing along with Giants Steve Smith at the center for disabilities telethon in Albany New York. He is a great guy, extremely tall, and has a real nice signature sure looks good on my newly autographed baseball :-).
i read those comments on the metsblog as well, so funny to watch the met bloggers think that there package of prospect acutally are good – but if santana goes anywhere but us let it be the mets, out of the AL – and will cause great debate in the papers, good stories are always fun
blowhard of the year: randy l. Loses this arguement and then gives us another unabomber rant categorizing the sides in a simplistic us and them format. hey moron, i played baseball, dont believe in all that sabremetric crap and didnt need an ivy leage degree to see that bernie has been horrible for 4 years and hasnt hustled EVER in his career. i also am “old school” enough to know that when your boss calls you on the phone you retunr the phone call or else you risk being marginalized.
cashman is right on this. he can say whatever he wants. there is no clause in his contract that says he cant speak his mind about former players that basically spit in his face by publiclally ignoring him for a year after he had just compensated them 90million dollars over 6 years to take the wrong route to flyballs, roll balls into 2nd base, sleepwalk down to 1B on ground balls, and mope around the clubhouse with a lame flamenco jazz guitar.
I like to think that I come from both sides of that argument, I’ve played baseball all my life through college (Div.II) and still play ball in the summer. I’ve been around my fair share of ex-major leaguers and have played with many who are either still in the minors or have gone to the minors. While my talent level wasn’t enough to get there, I know what makes a player tick and am able to recognize a respective players talent and baseball acumen. In addition to the baseball side of me, I’m currently in a PhD program so there is a intellectual part of me that respects the sabermetric side of baseball. I think statistical analysis helps when plotting career trends, while also parsing out median level talent to make more accurate career predictions. Bernie started his tren down after 2002, and one could visibly see that his talent level was also slipping. He never arrived in spring training in great shape (always heard about how his shoulders had to be worked into shape) and his prolonged early season slumps got longer each year. He was never considered a “smart” player, as he was by far one of the worst baserunners on those Yankee teams. He got by with talent, and when that talent started to slip it all but stamped his ticket out of the Bronx. The Yankees brass tried to convert him to 1B and the corner OF slots, but not being a “smart” player it is harder for that old pony to learn new tricks. Either way, he was a great player and if he juiced he would have been great for a few more years, but above all he was good person and unfortunately his career followed the path of many former big leaguers who trend down after 35. Like many other players, his ego (which was constantly stroked by Torre and lauding fans blind to his current ability) got in the way and he would not accept his true fate in pinstripes. I’m hoping he can come to grips with this and retire gracefully and Cashman and co. can move on from this.
hey pete, be sure to kick pedroia in the nuts for me.
brendan: That’s beyond awesome! I want!
I just got Shelley Duncan’s autograph!
http://umteh.de/Wallpaper/Southpark%20Wallpaper/wallpaper-char-timmy-1024.jpg
Interesting explanation Randy.
Another element, I suspect, is that Cashman somehow has managed to earn a following of sabermetric-acolytes that identify with him so vehemently, they take it personally every time anyone criticizes the man and they reflexively defend everything he does or says, no matter how foolish, reckless, or misguided it turns out to be.
Then there’s another element too that I’m sure as military person you’re all too familiar with. They construe any criticism of the organization or the people who govern it as an act of treachery. Adorno called it “authoritarian personality” disorder.
It’s okay to malign players, especially ex-players, but never the Yankee command which chooses to acquire or to discard them. The front-office is like the Supreme Court: infallible because it’s final and final because it’s infallible.
Don’t forget the Torre haters. They can’t tolerate the admiration and affection fans have for the ex-manager. As far as they’re concerned, Torre bears primary responsibility for the Yankees’ failure to win a World Series. The creep out from behind their rock every now and then to project all the malice and resentment they bear the world on the head of the former manager.
A few came out last night. Didn’t you see them? They’re always great for a few laughs. They’re like the 17-year cicadas. They burst out of nowhere, make a lot of noise, irritate, re-affirm each other, and then mercifully, disappear.
the only reaffirming going on here is between schweber and ransy. what did you guys meet in provincetown at an arts and crafts fair?
Oh and I forgot, they also make homophobic insinuations or impugn your masculinity behind a veil of anonymity. Real courageous those insects are!
JoeT YANKEES
I heard he is going wearing a Randy Moss mask.
mewl.
mewl
eyt-
click on my username. you can get all the info you want. i’m not posting here anonymously like you are. if you’re going to toss insults at least get it your facts straight. if you don’t like what i say,no one is forcing you to read it.
randy, cashman could say the same to you:
if you’re going to toss insults at least get it your facts straight. if you don’t like what i say,no one is forcing you to read it.
and all i get from clicking on your username is a link to a couple pathetic arts and crafts blogs. hardly a resume for the incessant pontification that you subject us to daily.
im wondering if you can see the players come in and out of the hotel before/after the dinner.. i would love to see them..
does anyone know what time it starts?
I need a few people to join our fantasy baseball league, is anyone interested?
This is another sign that Cash is gone after 2008.
He cant go after the H&H boys so takes it out on Bernie.
matt-
the question of whose game it is a big deal. is it the player’s , the union’s, the fan’s, the owners, the writer’s game, or congress’ game ? i lean in the direction it’s the ones who play the game.
people like cashman and theo seem like an outsiders to me who will never understand the game the way jeter,williams,or arod will. it gets into a chicken and egg kind of thing because without management it wouldn’t be a big business, but without players there wouldn’t be a game at all. i think the fact cashman gets about 2 million a year, which is less than what an average veteran middle reliever gets now, shows his relative value in the game compared to the players.
when he’s going off on a player, i think he’d be wise to keep that marketplace value in mind. my feeling is that he overvalues his worth. players now on the team are not going to like cashman going off on bernie. they’ll keep it amongst themselves,but cashman just shoots himself in the foot with that kind of bashing.
One of my favorite Jeter commercials to help ease this boring off season day.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAk48zTOk9U
“brian cashman is represents the best of people who have never played the game while bernie williams represents the best of players who have played the game. ”
randy, you have posted this idea several times in the past, and i have responded a few times, but i am not sure if i’ve ever gotten your thoughts on this:
Brian Cashman DID play baseball. he played 4 years of college ball.
he was a very good Division III second baseman for Catholic University. his junior year, he hit .348.
now, he wasn’t the type of player that was talented enough to be drafted. but he made the most of his physical abilities, and in the context of Division III sports, he was considered a very good player.
now, here is my question.
you always say that Cashman never played baseball. when you say this, are you saying it because you were unaware of his college career? or are you saying it because you feel that his accomplishments in Division III “don’t count”?
i am curious. either answer is ok, i just think it’s odd. b/c in reality, Cashman has gone further playing baseball than about 99.9% of the world’s population.
jennifer – i’m down to join your league.. shoot me details
how do you know players wont like cashman saying that bernie should have focused more on baseball? maybe palyers were po’d that he never got called out for jogging to 1B and took for granted he was a starter and didnt respect the guys on the team who had to try out for spring training last year as it was “beneath him”. maybe the guys were annoyed with his gigs playing jazz guitar in tyhe winter while he showed up year after year with the arm strength of a 12 yr old. maybe the guys like that “torre’s favorites” are being called out and that theyre will be a level playing field for vets and rookies alike with girardi and not this old mafia style torre perpetuated.
but its amusing how you cover your statement by saying that the players wont come out and say it, therefore you cant be proved wrong.
bernie needs to retire quietly. he has no say in the present yankees. hes just a washed up old man who cant let go of the past. go play your guitar, OLD MAN!
Jen, check your email.
Bernie shouldn’t be upset—Torre should. The comments are a direct hit on Torre. For the last few years the tean did start slow, and nobody seemed to know why. I remember a comment by Cashman last May saying that he didn’t know why this much talent wasn’t performing.
Finally, someone with inside knowledge saying what all of us felt—that Torre was letting the team get itself into playing shape, since he was a “players manager,” and this took 2 months or so. Torre also played Bernie way too long, as most of us on this blog have been quoted on time and again. Pete should pull up the archives.
Girardi is going to be different. Expect a different ST, and a much different first 30-50 games, if this hypothesis is correct.
hmmm-
yeah, i know i’m like a broken record on this about cashman. first of all, i’m sure by now you’ve figured that i have no doubt you understand the game. where i’m coming from on this is that an average division three player in a northern school probably couldn’t start on a typical big florida high school. when i was younger i played with a lot of division three players. i played on summer teams at umass that had a lot of amherst college players on it( john cerutti who played mlb baseball and died tragically and rich thompson who got a cup of mlb coffee). even though there are some good and some great players at division three, the northeastern teams in general are pretty weak. i’ve caught division three all americans and i’ve caught major league all stars as a bullpen catcher. there is just no comparison.
it’s a time thing for one thing. pro baseball can be an all day thing. divsion three baseball is something that is squeezed in after classes. the better the school is the more it’s squeezed in.
players who have come up though the low minors probably put in more time on a baseball field in their first rookie ball year than cashman has in his life. i just don’t see cashman as a player. i realize it’s a subjective thing where the line is drawn. i’m just drawing it at a higher level than what cashman’s division three experience was. but i see your point. he’s played.
northern division three baseball is really just glorified high school. nothing against anyone who does it or did it. it’s just not a high level. i’ve been around players in major league settings. i’ve worked with them as a bullpen catcher , cashman is just not a player in that sense.
Just a thought (or two) on Cashman’s comments re: Bernie Williams.
(1) I don’t really see the need (or advantage) in denegrating Williams.
(2) In a somewhat analogous situation, Theo traded Nomar (the original Ladainian Tomlinson) not long after Nomar (in the eyes of many) malingered and pouted on the bench during a key Yankee/Sox series in 2003 (the one involving The Dive). But Theo never trashed Nomar, and went out of his way to praise him for his many contributions to the organization. That seems like the better way to go, even if it involves a little white lie.
Correction: that series and trade was in 2004 – sorry.
hmmm-
on the other hand, from his division thre experience, i’m sure cashman could kick theo’s butt on a baseball field. i don’t think think theo got past back yard whiffle ball.
“That seems like the better way to go, even if it involves a little white lie.”
i agree brian. it’s not a matter of it being true; it’s a matter of it being said in public. a management person taking something public that should be handled man to man with the player privatey is something that players aren’t going to forget. i’m sure it gained theo points in the red sox clubhouse that he kept it in house.
on a side note, what do you make of the developing theo/cashman friendship? i personally don’t like it, but i didn’t like it either when the yankees chose to watch the red sox raise their 2004 flag either. i’m kind of hard core about that sort of thing.
Division III baseball can be pretty weak (especially the northeast) and the difference is huge as you move up to DI. I saw this transition first hand as I played DII in a program during its transition to DI. Most of the DIII players were cut during this time and it was not easy on the team. I still think the fact Cash at least went this far is something, plus he has been around enough “baseball” people to have filled in some of the scouting holes.
NYPD113th….here is proof he was in albany NY and that I am not lying
http://timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?newsdate=1/25/2008&navigation=nextprior&category=SPORTS&BCCode=HOME&storyID=658185
geez people these days noone can trust anyone i mean c’mon seriously just becuase you are jealous doesn’t mean you have to accuse people of lying.
Randy 1 – I don’t know what to make of the Theo/Cash friendship. I wonder if it has been engendered by a mutual desire to avoid Santana (preferably moving him to the NL). At least that type of “friendship” (i.e. collusion) makes sense.
Perhaps this is a takeoff on the old bromide, “Hold your friends close, and your enemies closer.” Maybe it’s an elaborate game of double agent.
In other words, I’m disinclined to think that the motives are entirely genuine (on either side).
brian (redsox fan)
i’ll bet if it was within baseball rules, both gms would throw in a fringe prospect each to give to the mets to add to their offer to make sure santana ended up a met. neither team wants to pay prospects and market free agent salary to get santana, and neither team wants the other to get santana.
they probably aren’t colluding because if they were they’d be staying away from each other in public. in my contrarian way of thinking , i think that red sox fans are way too comfortable with cashman. i don’t think he’s scaring any red sox fans.
i’d rather have a gm that red sox fans hated.
thanks for the explanation randy, i was genuinely curious.
It’s good to see Murcer is well enough to be attending this event. If you talk to him, Peter, it would be great to get an update on his health.
ESPN just reported Francisco Liriano believes he is 100% healthy, which unfortunately means Johan Santana is that much more likely to be traded. Hopefully it happens early in the 10 day deadline Charlie Walters reported.
Obviously a lot more proof is needed that Liriano is back to 2006 form, but it has to work in favor of trading Santana – and sooner than later. Hopefully it brings this biblical Santana saga to a close:
http://bronx-bomberz.blogspot.com/2008/01/sunday-rumblings.html
Hey has anyone taken a tour of Yankee Stadium lately? I have a few questions, first where do you park? Second where do you meet for it?
OR Minnesota might give it one more run….. then let Johan walk at the end of the year.
“Perhaps this is a takeoff on the old bromide, “Hold your friends close, and your enemies closer.” Maybe it’s an elaborate game of double agent.”
Wow.
Or, maybe this isn’t like rival geopolitical powers at all, and they’ve just gotten to know each other well enough to be on friendly terms. And, they know that the both of them at a speaking engagement is a big draw, so they both happily use that to get people to come to charity events or whatever.
Seriously…now people not only want the PLAYERS to hate each other, but the MANAGEMENT to hate each other? It’s just ridiculous.
“ESPN just reported Francisco Liriano believes he is 100% healthy”
Players always say that. I’m pretty sure the twins are going to do what they’re going to do no matter the Liriano situation. They can’t win that division with Santana or without him.
Jennifer – you meet the tour at the press gate. As for parking, we got a spot on the street. If you drive around you should be able to find parking. (that’s the advantage of going in the off-season)
Hey, I’m coming late to this thread. So we’re all supposed to choose either Joba or Phil to root for this season? Hmmm, that’s going to be tough….
Jennifer
We went 2 years ago during the off season and we called to ask about parking and they told us to park in the players lot. Call the stadium and see if they are still doing the same with parking.
Brian Cashman just dropped off my list. What he did was unprofessional, unethical, and damaging overall to anyone who cares about the Yankees. He’s entitled to his opinion, but why say something this heinous about a recent lifelong Yankee without any apparent provocation or meaning whatsoever? Cashman, you need to apologize and stop publicly criticizing Yankee players in this manner. You must be out of touch—the rest of the media Yankee bashes around the clock and we hope for a bit of respite from our own general manager.
Everyone knows that MN can’t win with Det and Cle. But at least it would be a little more exciting with Santana…... and the MN fans need something like that for this upcoming season.
Why can’t Minn win? Remember, they all have to play each other 18 times, and even KC is better than before.
Randy 1 – I must admit that I’m perfectly comfortable with Theo’s “relationship” with Cashman, because I’m confident that Theo can out-connive Cashman, if need be. Maybe I’m underestimating Cashman, but I can see Theo taking advantage of this “thaw,” but not vice versa.
Why would Cashman apologize? We should not worry about whether Bernie’s feelings are hurt. Cashman’s comments may have not been 100% true, but the fact of the matte ris that Bernie put the Yankees in a bad spot by not retiring. They couldn’t get rid of him becaus ethey knew they would look bad. If Bernie had the team’s best interest in mind he would have walked away after 05.
Fran, did you park in the players lot?
Thanks pat! I’m hoping it is the players lot, and maybe if there are enough people around I’ll take a walk over to the new stadium!
Bedard to M’s a done deal it seems.
http://mlbfleecefactor.com/2008/01/27/report-mariners-trade-for-bedard/
Cashman should said “No Comment” or talk but really not say anything like he does with every question.WE say Hank shut up now it’s Cashman’s turn.Also while Cashman is fighting for the playoff Bernie will be playing Jazz.
“Why can’t Minn win? Remember, they all have to play each other 18 times, and even KC is better than before.”
Because minnesota has almost 40 games against det and cle, and they have only 18 games against each other. And 18 games each against Minnesota’s anemic lineup. Sure, they have Young now…but no more Hunter. And they’ll still have a huge offensive hole at SS. And, the back end of their rotation is either bad or not-yet-MLB ready.
“Maybe I’m underestimating Cashman, but I can see Theo taking advantage of this “thaw,” but not vice versa.”
i hate to admit it, but that’s my thinking too.
What Cash said about Bernie makes you wonder what is going on behind the scenes. Because, otherwise, it makes no sense. Why air dirty laundry? Especially OLD dirty laundry. Has something transpired of late to make Cash really irritated about Bernie? Cash certainly knows enough to let sleeping dogs lie.
There IS a good possibility that Bernie Williams is the scapegoat for a Brian Cashman campaign to force Hank The Mouth to ask for his resignation. Unless the Young Steinbrenners were the main backers of the decision to let Bernie go. In that case Brian Cashman is merely providing a different target for anyone who missed Hank The Mouth’s pronouncements to the AP in that Sporting News story.
Jennifer – We did not park in the players lot – when we went it was closed off. But we found a spot on the4 street right at the stadium. And after the tour defintely walk across the street to see the new stadium.
“Maybe I’m underestimating Cashman, but I can see Theo taking advantage of this “thaw,” but not vice versa.”
How?
Is it because he’s short? Why is it that people think Cashman is some kind of blundering fool and that Theo is a genius? I mean…Theo signed Pineiro and Donnelly last year to help out his bullpen. He was saved by a nobody (okajima) that NO ONE thought would amount to anything, and by his closer ignoring his doctors and staying in the bullpen. AND he went out and got Gagne. In what way is this man a genius? Did he somehow prevent Sabathia from being able to throw strikes in the post-season? Was it genius to have ONE starter capable of throwing more than FIVE INNINGS in a postseason start? Genius to pay 50 million dollars to talk to a guy who throws 120 pitches just to give up three runs in six innings?
I’m just really not seeing here what it is that people think makes Theo a sublime genius and Cashman some kind of gullible dunderhead.
From what I’ve read, Cash and Theo – at the various meetings that GMs go to – have been sharing drinks for a while. So this is not a “new” thaw, but rather two young guys with similar pressures who go and ventilate to one another from time to time.
How?
Is it because he’s short? Why is it that people think Cashman is some kind of blundering fool and that Theo is a genius?
Easy answer to this one, ESPN
Regarding Cash and Bernie, I think we’re fishing for a story where there is none.
Sometimes people (example: me) say things without thinking…
Is it possible that Cashman is sending a larger message than what he’s saying specifically about Bernie? Remember, we only hear Cashman say what Cashman wants us to hear him say.
Re: Theo vs. Cash. Theo definately outsmarted Cash by getting a Red Sox partner to run the steroid investigation. Devious, actually.
Theo had nothing to do with George Mitchell running the steroid investigation.
Nick: You sound like Bobcat.
But I have a feeling you know that.
Rebecca: How is the thesis coming?
whozat-
it’s like that movie dumb and dumber. one is still smarter than the other. not that either cashman or theo is dumb. i totally agree with you that theo is no genius. theo and cashman are more like smart and smarter,but i think theo is the smarter one.
the red sox don’t try to be smart on just one thing. they have a strategy of throwing a lot of things at the wall and hope something sticks. their religion is probability. they discovered ortiz in this way. they must have had 6 first basemen and dhs with little giambi the one they were counting on leading the way. ortiz came out of the competition as the one who stuck on the wall . they cut loose the other ones.
so i don’t think theo is a genius, but i think the approach he and the organization uses can work. it really shouldn’t be cashman against theo anyway. each is just a part of the front office. i think the yankees took a temporary step back when cashman wrested contro from the tampa faction. some good people were lost if they were percieved to be loyal to tampa and not cashman.
the yankees seem to be coming back strong with an organizational approach that has developed the farm system and resigned all it’s players. hank has settled in better than i initially thought. girardi could be a difference maker .
all the more odd that with things going well, cashman would rock the boat with unnecessary comments about bernie. maybe theo slipped something into cashman’s water. i’m kidding folks.
And maybe Rebecca is right in saying that sometimes people say things without thinking. And later on, they regret it. I’m an expert in this area.
clay bellinger: have just a shade under three pages done, need 10-13 for Friday, and if pressed, I can generally do up to 8 a night. (I know I’ve done 10 before, but that’s pushing it).
“There IS a good possibility that Bernie Williams is the scapegoat for a Brian Cashman campaign to force Hank The Mouth to ask for his resignation.”
i think you may be overestimating the importance of this incident just a wee bit.
why on earth would Cashman be asked to resign because he said Bernie Williams stunk in 2005?? what does that have to do with anything? Bernie isn’t on the team anymore.
man, the offseason is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO long.
Well good luck, I hope it gets finished, what is the topic?
hmmm-
too bad they wouldn’t have more congressional steroid hearings in the off season to help time go by faster. i know how you like those.
clay: Henry VII of England (that is, Henry VIII’s father) and the re-stabilization of the English monarchy.
WOW, Best of Luck with that, I hope you feel you will use this in the future.
clay: My dream job, aside from writing about the Yankees, is teaching a course on early Tudor England at a university =D
rebecca-
see any parallels with re-stabilization of the yankee monarchy?
Randy l: Unfortunatley, no, because Hank n’ Hal are not obscure scions of the house of Steinbrenner, but instead the rightful heirs to the throne.
Though I give them that they have a Tudor-like attitude concerning authority, and treason…
“too bad they wouldn’t have more congressional steroid hearings in the off season to help time go by faster. i know how you like those.”
seriously. lol.
how long until pitchers and catchers?
hmm: 14 + 4 = 18
Anyone know if Arod was at the Jeter event?
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080126&content_id=2356778&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy
Cashman may be right in what he said, but why call Bernie out on it? His career is over, and there’s no reason to throw mud at him.
It looks like another wild card contender is about to get a lot better. Bedard to Sea
“Cashman may be right in what he said, but why call Bernie out on it? His career is over, and there’s no reason to throw mud at him.”
Well, I assume someone asked, first of all. The only thing that seems perhaps out of line to me is the stuff about his music career distracting from baseball. Also, no one’s quoted the context for what Cash said. Maybe he had reason to speak candidly instead of sidestepping the question. Also, he probably couched it in terms of Bernie having been a great Yankee…but that’s not interesting, so it doesn’t get reported.
I hope that this leads to Cash and Bernie talking, and then to the Yankees extending him an invite for ST as an instructor, and paves the way for Bernie Day.
“It looks like another wild card contender is about to get a lot better. Bedard to Sea”
You’re worried about Seattle? Ok.
I am a little.
I don’t think Seattle scares the Yankees. For the Angels, it may be a different story.
Assuming Seattle doesn’t lose, what was it, 18 in a row, they’ve not got a bad team.
I am, however, much more concerned about our own division.
Does anyone disagree that what Cash said was true?
I think we all saw it while it was going on. Cahsn knew like we all did that as long as he kept Bernie on the roster Torre would play him no matter what. Just like he finally had to take Proctor away from him last year.
I’m sure Cash was sick to death of being made to look like the bad guy for not begging Bernie to come back last year, while Bernie pouted like a spoiled baby.
He probably should have just taken the high road and kept his mouth shut, but really it’s not that big a deal.
I’m not saying he isn’t a very good pitcher, but how many healthy, good years has Bedard had?
Seems to me that the media is making him about to be a much more established stud than he deserves at this point.
Brian (Red Sox Fan), I agree that Nomar is a great analogy. I lived in Massachusetts 2001-2005 and saw it unfold in the media—from beloved player (he was a god in 2002 and 2003) to someone who had to go. I thought Theo handled it with authority (jettisoning Nomar when he felt it necessary) and with class (praising Nomar).
Now I’m a MUCH bigger Cashman fan than Theo fan. But in this particular analogy, Cash handled it wrong on both ends: keeping Bernie past his time, and complaining about him after the fact.
In 2006, considering Bernie’s place on the Yankees, a 4th OFer, PH for $1.5m was a fair deal. The guy was still enough to be a bench player. The problem was Torre playing Bernie over Melky. It wasn’t a bad deal by Cashman, but misuse by our manager.
Orioles president of baseball operations Andy MacPhail said tonight that the club has not agreed to trade ace pitcher Erik Bedard to the Seattle Mariners for a package headed by young center fielder Adam Jones, despite reports that a deal is done. “We do not have an agreement with the Mariners,” MacPhail said.
Either Jones is playing with a reporter, or MacPhail is sticking to a strict line that they don’t have a deal until the physical is passed.
Point well taken, OYF. I’d forgotten the economics.
And 2007 actions aside, I always thought Bernie was an A+ guy to have in the club house and representing the Yankees.
In this analogy, Theo made the challenge of dealing with a legend (whom he no longer believed had the right stuff) easy for his manager: he got rid of him. But Nomar had a lot more trade value than Bernie…
But I agree, $1.5 for Bernie in 2007 was a good deal.
“But I agree, $1.5 for Bernie in 2007 was a good deal.”
I mean 2006.
OK, i LOVE Bernie Williams, but the guy needs to realize that he was not offering the team much in the way of production. It was sad to see him go and fight off retirement (even to today apparently). Let it go bud, you did amazing things in the Bronx that will not be forgot.