Today in the Journal News
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jan 29, 2008 
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The Yankees are about to finalize their deal with Robinson Cano.
Roger Clemens added a lengthy statistical breakdown to his line of defense.
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The look of LoHud.com was recently changed and it was only a matter of time before they caught up to this blog. They’re planning to flip the switch sometime soon, so watch for that. But how you use the blog won’t change.
1st !
Wont it be sad if Shilling Makes the HOF and Clemens doesnt?
Keep it simple LoHud
that’s great news…it could use a little touch of slickness
I hope this site doesn’t turn into a bunch of morons now that it is getting more attention (See the first post if you’re wondering why I say this)
Any one else sick of Johan Santana talks already? Olney is reporting he could get dealt as early as today, which a lot of people have said he will be dealt “soon” or “a deal is close” in the past yet he is still a Twin so I am not truly shocked or buying it just yet. However I do hope it is true so we can stop hearing about it!!!! Unless he goes to the Sox then we won’t hear the end about them having the “best rotation ever”
Chris, Pete should block people who make those posts!!!
I’ve been sick of the Santana talks since Decemeber. Enough is enough trade him or don’t!!
The Blog changing looks. In what way? Do you know?
Chris,
Im with you on this. I cant wait till Santana is no longer in our conversations. Hopefully it will end this week. I just wonder if Cash will swoop in the final minute and snatch him up. As we talked about a couple weeks ago. This is the first year in 8 that we havnt signed a free agent that wasnt ours the year prior.
I want to get our bloggers oppinion on this. If you can have Santana for 5 years rather than the 7. Would you trade Phil and Melky to land him? If so, do you go with Damon in Center or make a trade?
Don’t think the Yanks are interested in Santana anymore hope he goes to the mets then.
Does anybody know what the starting lineup order is? What number batter will Cano be?
It would be nice if he went far away from NY, so we don’t have to hear about him. But if it is NYM or Boston, I’d be fine for NYM.
Yeah I spoke to Joe G yesterday and he told me Cano will bat 3rd. Seriously how the heck would we know now 8 weeks before the season starts?
I am hoping that the Mets get this deal done now, or that Santana makes it to the offseason. I want this ordeal to be over with. It is getting ridiculous as I have heard numerous of times that this deal will get done soon with the Red Sox and Yankees. If this deal gets done today it will finally be over and I will be happy. The amount to give up to get Santana for the Yankees is too much and the prospects we will hold on too will be great. Eerybody cross your fingers and hope that Santana leaves the American League today.
Olney has been reporting that Santana is going to be dealt “any day” for the last 3 months.
Sooner or later he will call it right and ESPN will credit him for “breaking news”.
Its the way ESPN works these days. Throw enough nonsense against the wall and sooner or later something sticks. Then, you take credit for “breaking” the story.
Its a shame a one-time outstanding reporter like Olney is now just another in a long line of ESPN shills. Another one bites the dust.
ESPN is the graveyard for good reporters. Hope these guys save their money because they sold their souls for TV dollars.
Bill Smith messed up this deal bigtime for the Twins. Once the Yankees added Hughes to their offer, he should have pulled the trigger instead of shopping for a better offer.
He won’t get a better offer than the one the Yankees had on the table for him in December.
There is no longer any incentive for the Yankees to include their starting CF and two of their 3 best pitching prospects AND pay over 120 million for Santana.
Go into the season with what you have and see how it pans out.
The old saying, “he who hesitates is lost” is apt when describing the actions of Smith during this entire saga.
Someone said in an earlier thread that Cano was Tony Gwynn with power. Well, since I probably am older and have a longer fram of reference. I disagree. I’m not the only one to have said this, but he ahas always reminded me of Rod Carew. The way he holds the bat, the wrist flip base hits to left. I think he will eventually be a 20-25 or so home run guy, kind of like Matsui. The key for him is to continue to improve his OBP. He showed progress last year, but I think the Yanks would agree he still has room for improvement.
I guess those stories about him loving the night life a little too much were unfounded. I doubt the team would trust him with this type and length of contract unless they were convinced he was a solid character. Especially when they really didn’t have to do it.
Thanks Jennifer. I didn’t mean to say know. Sorry. I meant where would you put him 5th 6th lower higher.
At this point, I wouldn’t trade Hughes or Cabrera for Santana, regardless of how many years he gets in his new contract.
The longer this thing dragged out, the less sense it makes for the Yankees.
If Santana really wants to play in NY, he plays it out in Minnesota this year, then gets a blank check to play for the Yankees in 2009.
His agents aren’t dumb. They know how much money comes off the Yankees books after 2008 and, if its only a money deal, they pull the trigger on it.
If Santana really wants to be traded now, perhaps he has some injury issues and wants to get the big money now instead of rolling the dice and heading to free agency after 2008.
Who knows what the real reasons are but, if he REALLY wants to be a Yankees (as has been rumored for months), there is a way for it to be done. However, it does involve some risk (playing out this season or telling the Twins its either the Yankees or no deal) on his part.
If he just wants the payday, it looks like its going to have to come from someone other than the Yankees.
When ESPN got Disneyfied, they lost their soul for sure. I cannot even bear watching it any longer. I remember when sportscasters wore, shall we say, rather colorful sports jackets for some ungodly reason. Now they are better dressed but again for some ungodly reason feel like they have to scream all the time. I have no idea why they think if they shout louder we will suddenly be enlightened. The louder they shout the stupider they get. It has gotten to the point that I often watch ball games with the sound off.
Whatevered
Sorry
See what happens when you change just one word!! 
Sj is 100% right, eventually Santana might be traded and everyone will site the most recent article that Buster wrote, stating that it would happen any minute. Never mind the article that he wrote in Decemeber stating it would happen within 24 hours! As I said before I’ll believe he is traded when I see pictures from his press conference. (lets not forget the whole Arod to Soxs thing a few years back) The players on the Soxs were even fooled, going on espn saying how great it was to have someone as great at ALex on their team. Basically throwing Nomar under the bus, than of course that didn’t happen, and Alex sucked to them.
Jennifer, I hope this blog makes an edit button. That will help everyone. And maybe also have a button to report offensive posts that could keep some (not all come to show some hate) Sox fans that keep bothering the Yankee fans.
and i hate to break this to everyone, but just because Johan gets traded to the Mets, the covnersation wont end here… i can see it now; all the “our package of is sooo much better than what they offered!
and then, god help Phil Hughes if he doesnt get off to a good start, or the Yankees dont make it to the playoffs this season… then it’ll be, “see! we couldve traded this chump for the best pitcher in the game, and now we’re home in October… fire Cashman!”
i have a feeling this is just beginning…
For the uneducated and emotional, sure they will second guess it if Santana isn’t traded to the Yankees.
There is always a very healthy “told you so” population on the ‘net.
The rest of us? We’ll watch the games, follow the season, and see what happens.
Its not like this team is talentless.
No bugs in Cleveland, they are playing Boston in the ALCS. Who knows how that could have turned out.
Perhaps the “ace” they crave is already on the team.
They have played the “all star at every position” game for the last 7 years. They have spent over a BILLION dollars in salaries since 2000 and are 4-13 in their last 17 post-season games. Not exactly a great bang for the buck.
Can’t say I blame them for not wanting to dip into the 100 million dollar pool again. Especially when the pitchers whio have gotten that kind of money have not lived up to the hype.
With the season approaching us, I’d rather see what the young guys can do. There will be some growing pains. No question about that.
If they can get the job done, this team is MUCH better off. Not just for the present but, for the future.
Yep, after any bad start from Hughes, there will be people here moaning about how stupid Cashman was for not making the deal.
Heck, there were people here calling him a bust last season when his velocity was down after missing months with the hamstring/ankle injuries.
Turn Two,
There will be some posters who will do as you predict, but I think most fans have come to appreciate Phil and will be patient when he struggles. Because, inevitably, he will. We still want Johan, but the cost is not one, but two top flight pitching prospects.
But you’re right, no matter where the trade happens there’ll be a floodgate of emotions and, of course, crazy comments.
TurnTwo,
That makes perfect sense. It probably would happen.Heres another one for you. What if Leche starts of slow. Will there be people asking for Jackson or Gardner to take his place? Will there be people that say that we should have traded him for a relief pitcher?
I see Feliz has been signed. Could we have got him for cheap to play first for us? Im just not comfortable with our first base situation. I also here that Miranda doesnt field well. Im a strong believer that first base should be a good defender. Look at our previous years of success. Martinez, Oelerud and the tall guy who struck out alot in the Boston series in 04. Maybe we should have kept Mienkuoujlhohuouich.
Feliz? He has a decent glove, but can’t hit.
1B should be an offense position.
“Can’t say I blame them for not wanting to dip into the 100 million dollar pool again. Especially when the pitchers whio have gotten that kind of money have not lived up to the hype. ”
..like Mike Hampton, Barry Zito, or Kevin Brown? xP
He had a 253 avg. with 20 homeruns in a crappy team. If not Feliz, why not roll the dice and go after Crede for first?
I don’t see us missing the playoffs even if Phil et al aren’t as good as hyped. Look over the last few years at who’s started games for us. Unless they totally implode and our offense is suddenly old, we will still be where we always are at the end of the season.
Blargh
I think Mike Mussina might be one of the only ones who actually lived up to his contract. 2001 2 outs away from ws, 2003 we were also very close.
Feliz has a .288 career OBP. You want that????
The Yanks are better off playing Betemit at first.
Why are you guys talking about 1B? Isn’t that always Andy Phillips position coming out of ST?
Your right mel. If not Phillips then the next closest thing. PHELPS.
Has anyone heard if Betimet has shed off some pounds or did he do the Damon 3 day diet?
Whatevered
January 29th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Thanks Jennifer. I didn’t mean to say know. Sorry. I meant where would you put him 5th 6th lower higher.
Whatevered – Just for the fun of it, a guess on my part would be between 6th and 8th (and can you imagine Cano batting 7 or 8!)
Here’s what I think the batting order may be:
Damon – LF
Jeter – ss
Abreu – RF
ARod – 3B
Matsui – DH (or Giambi)
Posada – C
Giambi – 1B
Cano – 2B
Cabrera- CF
Matsui, Posada and Giambi could be juggled around in the 5th thru 7th slots. But if Giambi is the DH and Matsui is sitting, then Betemit would probably hit 8th and Cano move up to 7th. I don’t suppose he’d hit higher than that in the order this year, but it wouldn’t surprise me either to see him hitting 6th, ahead of Giambi.
Finally, next year, depending on what moves the Yanks make in the off season, I could see Cano take over the three slot with Abreu gone. Of course, could they sign Abreu for a few more years and trade Damon or Cabrera?! Who can say. So many things can happen, but I gotta believe that Cano will be moving up in the order by 2009. Still, do we really care where Joe decides to play him as long as he’s producing wherever he hits?!
Who has a better chance to hit 25 homeruns this year Matsui or Giambi? If Giambi has a monster year do we keep him or let him walk?
“If not Feliz, why not roll the dice and go after Crede for first?”
Gotta see if he’s healthy, for one thing. And that he’s better than what betemit/Duncan can provide. Betemit K’s a lot, but has good power from the left side and can almost certainly play solid D at 1B. Crede has decent power from the right side, yes, but moving him to 1B wastes his greatest asset. If Duncan can provide almost as much power against lefties (and the ability to take a walk!) with tolerable D…I’d rather have that plus whatever we’d have to trade for Crede than Crede at 1B. Besides…if he’s healthy, the Giants will be after him for 3B, so we’d have to deal with out-bidding someone else.
S.o.S 27
I suspect that the Yanks will look at it as a ‘last hurray’ and let him walk. There’s just too many injury issues as well as the age factor with Jason.
“Who has a better chance to hit 25 homeruns this year Matsui or Giambi? If Giambi has a monster year do we keep him or let him walk?”
If both are healthy? Giambi. But what are the odds of that?
If he has a monster year, I still let him walk. Take the draft picks. The Yanks have other guys who need that DH slot.
I agree, i would let him walk. We have too many guys that need the dh spot for time off(Posada,Matsui,Damon,Arod). If not for that reason. I also think that Duncan can put up the same numbers if not better given the dh position full time.
I’ve admittedly campaigned for getting Johan from day one. Back at the winter meetings I was fine with trading Hughes for Johan.
At this point though, I wouldn’t trade Hughes for him at all.
The Twins screwed this up and the Yankees would be brain dead to include Hughes in any deal based on that rumored Mets package the Twins are considering.
If the Twins seriously are thinking of taking what the Mets are offering, then the Yankees should only consider trading IPK and minor leaguers.
Anything more than that would be lunacy.
For that matter, I think the Red Sox control this thing. Their 2 packages are better talent wise than the Mets, so we’re going to find out if Theo wants to pay Johan the big money or if they were just tweaking the Yankees, which is what most of us expect.
If I were Johan and the Mets were willing to give me 125 million guaranteed, I take it.
With the life and health of a pitcher so tenuous, he’d be silly to walk away from that kind of coin and never have to worry about his arm again.
I’d love for him to make it to free agency, but I think SJ is right that there might be some underlying injury concern that is forcing them to go for the guaranteed extension before he throws another pitch.
What a catastrophe this would be for any team to trade the kind of talent they are going to have to give up and give over 100 million to the guy and then find out he’s going to need surgery.
You have to figure the teams will give him a thorough physical and that should address their concerns, but it does appear that there is some real push to get Johan his money right now rather than in Nov.
SJ44 – I like where your heads at. Buster is a goof. Peter Gammons said Johan was as good as a Red Sock in December. ESPN has to keep the news cycle moving.
As for second guessers. Please all (and by “all” you know if you said last year was lost), be more patient then last year. If we start off 10-15 or are 5 out at the AS break, the season is not over, not matter what Buster, Gammons, John Kruk et al tell us.
“I also think that Duncan can put up the same numbers if not better given the dh position full time.”
As Giambi?
I really don’t think that’s true. Giambi was one of the top offensive producers (measured by OPS) in the league in 2006. They need to figure out some way to get him, Damon and Matsui at-bats if all three are healthy.
i don’t think the Yankees will get draft picks for Giambi unless he has a monster year. if he has any sort of injury issues this year, or just a so-so year, the Yankees won’t be able to offer him arbitration because there is a good chance he would accept.
the only way i can see Giambi back in 2009 is if he were willing to take a 1 year, $3-4M deal. remember the Yankees have a $5M buyout on his 2009 option.
*maybe* he would feel like he “owed it” to the Yankees for all the money he collected while sitting on the DL and take a 1 year, cheap deal, but that’s not really the way things work these days.
“If he has a monster year, I still let him walk. Take the draft picks. ”
sorry, i misread what you said.
More than any season in recent memory, I think this season’s success or failure won’t be determined by where the team finishes in the standings.
In fact, I’m going in NOT expecting them to be in the postseason. Bonderman was 6-13 in his first season, so I’m not expecting heroics from Hughes, Kennedy or Chamberlain (though I’ll be happy to take them!). I think this season is all about the longterm future.
Now, whether the Steinbrenners will allow this to happen is another matter.
yanks61;
Looks good to me(line up). I think you had the right idea switching 6 and 8, more chance for RBIs for Giambi.
Also, I would let Giambi walk after this year no matter how well he plays. Maybe bring back Abreu if he does well, one year only.
“Bonderman was 6-13 in his first season,”
Bonderman was also 20 and brought straight up from high-A ball.
The situations aren’t comparable. Verlander was 17-9 with a 3.63. That’s a much better comparison for Joba and Phil.
whozat,
You dont think that Duncan can hit 30 homers and bat 270 per year? I am not talking about the Giambi that hit 40+ homers and batted in the 300′s. Im talking about the 250 25-30 homers broke down one. For someone who they said had no patience at the plate. I thought Duncan looked pretty selective last year there. I might be wrong though.
“Im talking about the 250 25-30 homers broke down one.”
That guy still posts OBP’s above .400, he’s still a very productive player when he plays. I doubt Shelley will be able to come close to that in his first year in the bigs.
The Mets landing Santana will take the sting out of the Pats blowing out the Giants for some Jints fans.
“I thought Duncan looked pretty selective last year there. I might be wrong though.”
He did, which was good. But Giambi is UNBELIEVABLY selective.
Also…I really don’t think that Shelley would hit 30 homers in full-time either. I think that his upside is a guy who’ll slug well against lefties at the plate, take a decent number of walks, but strike out a lot. Craig Wilson, really — who’s still a useful player. But not someone I’d want to give 500 ABs to.
According to WFAN’s Mike Francesa, Johan Santana recently turned down a five-year, $100 million contract offer from the Twins, because he is still holding out for a seven-year, $140 million deal.
Rebecca –
I’ve been away since Saturday early a.m., so I just got a chance to catch up. First I wanted to congratulate you on an awesome post. Not only well-written, but had a great purpose. I had tears in my eyes reading everyone’s memories. Just an inspired post.
My favorite bit of news over the last couople of days is that David Cone will be around. I’ve always liked him, and I’ve always felt he communicated very well, so it should be extremely interesting to get his input from the YES studios. Plus, I think he’s a great choice to do the kid show.
Ny least favorite bit of news is the Bernie/Brian to-do. This is not where that should be headed.
The “ho-hum:” Santana.
I like what Duncan brought to the dugout, his excitement and arm bashes and all, but I don’t see him hitting like Giambi can. Giambi has a very good eye, his problem has been remaining healthy.
The 1st base position is going to be merry-go-round, probably missing the merry part on occasion.
The old adage of “he who hesitates is lost” certainly applies to Twins GM, Bill Smith. His mentor (Terry Ryan) didn’t do business in the same manner.
If he was looking to become a household name, he went about it wrong. He had the best deal he could have got in December and let stupidity get in the way.
I don’t understand why it made sense to a lot of folks to trade Melky and Hughes 4 – 6 weeks ago,but now it doesn’t. Other than the passage of a few weeks, what’s changed? Have Melky & Phil somehow improve? Or did Santana get worse and is now worth a lesser package?
Trading for the baseball’s best lefthander is a going to cost. I know I’m in the minority here, but IMO the cost is worth it. Acquiring Santana would allow Joba to stay in the bullpen,thereby improving the team’s 2 biggest concerns ( starting pitching and the bullpen).
I’ll cover my head now while I get beat up LOL
Is this the new layout? Please say no.
Drive 4-5, ha!
I think that sentiment of not including Melky and Hguhes in a deal now as opposed to a month ago comes from knowing what the Mets offer is… I would be hesitant to include Hughes simply because I know that IPK is still better than any of those pitchers the Mets have in their package, and MLB ready; and if i can keep Hughes or IPK, i’d rather keep Hughes.
But that being said, dont worry, you arent alone. I would still make the Hughes/Melky trade if they were willing to pull that trigger, too. I like Hughes as a potential star, but I like Johan as a known commodity even more.
Drive 4-5, Joba would still be a starter. Santana would take Phil’s spot in the rotation, not Joba’s. Besides which, they want Joba to start because he IS a starter, not just because we need a starter.
Chris,NY
Didnt today’s papers say that the plan was to start Joba’s season in the bullpen?
If The Red Sox are the Favorites to land Santana the Yankees will trade for him.Hank will get a gun and force Cashman to deal for Santana.But if the Mets are the Favorites which I think they are the Yankees are out.Thats for sure.Beckett and Santana in the Red Sox is better in the next 6 years then Joba and Hughes in the Yankees.
the rotation would be Johan, Wang, Pettitte, Moose, and IPK, with Joba as the setup man, i would imagine…
Rebecca –
Just got back from a mini-vacation, and I wanted to make sure I congratulated you on an inspirational post, both in its written style and in its result! Thanks to all of you for sharing your memories – many brought tears to my eyes.
Getting caught up: Yeah! Robbie Cano deal. Yeah! David Cone joins YES! Boo! Bernie and Brian Battle. Yawn! Johan. Agita-inducing – The Roger Saga.
Drive 4-5, I’m not sure about the papers but I know one article someone linked to on here speculated based on Eiland saying “we’ll have a plan” to mean he “may” start in the pen then join the rotation later in the season to cap his innings. But the article didn’t actually quote Eiland saying that specifically…
My point being, if he goes to the pen in the beginning or end of the season, it would seem to be only because of innings limits, not because that’s where they want him long-term.
I’m also assuming from what I’ve read that Moose is not gauranteed a spot in the rotation.
Melky and Phil were alleged to be on the table prior to Pettitte’s return announcement.
Without Andy, the Yanks’ need for a 200+ innings high quality lefty was HUGE. Now it’s different.
just read the Olney article about today’s mid-day deadline and I don’t think i’ve ever read anything with more use of the words “if..” and “may……”
Yazman,very good point. I think a lot of people forgot that Pettitte’s return came just before Hank set that deadline during the meetings. That was really the first turning point in the Yankees interest. It seemed to allow Cashman and Co. a louder voice with Hank in terms of keeping Hughes.
What happens if Andy is impacted by the Congressional lynch mob? I’m not sure it’s a good idea to write Andy’s name in the rotation in anything but pencil as of today.
ESPN spawned the comic/sportscaster. Why, I do not know. Failed wannabe actors/comedians? Why turn to sports?
Today’s talk-show mentality, with its capture-your-attention or lose you to channel surfing is the result of our short attention spans so “let us entertain you,” is the battle cry of networks dictated by their sponsors.
Also Pettitte came back to collect the $16 million dollars before the Mitchell Report came out.Hopefully Cashman doesn’t make the same mistake next time.Man Cashman has made some bad free agent deals with pitchers.
Johan could have helped us with 5 Hall Of Fame years rather then being the HGH veternm Pettitte will hear in Spring training.
With 60% of the Yankees rotation constituting 2 rookie pitchers capped at ~150 and another at ~190, I just can’t see the Yankees making the playoffs without Santana, especially not with the unknows haunting their bullpen.
The Yankees two main competitors for the wild-card last year, the Mariners (if Angelos approves the Bedard trade) and the Tigers, have dramatically improved this off-season. Meanwhile, the Indians and the Red Sox pitching staff’s still strike me as better than the Yankees, even with a healthy Hughes and full seasons of Joba and IPK.
Anything can happen, indeed. But without Santana, I’m hardly optimistic.
With 60% of the Yankees rotation constituting 2 rookie pitchers capped at ~150 and another rookie, at ~190, I just can’t see the Yankees making the playoffs without Santana, especially not with the unknows haunting their bullpen.
The Yankees two main competitors for the wild-card last year, the Mariners (if Angelos approves the Bedard trade) and the Tigers, have dramatically improved this off-season. Meanwhile, the Indians and the Red Sox pitching staff’s still strike me as better than the Yankees, even with a healthy Hughes and full seasons of Joba and IPK.
Anything can happen, indeed. But without Santana, I’m hardly optimistic. I hope the Yankees prove me wrong.
“Man Cashman has made some bad free agent deals with pitchers.”
Wright and Pavano looked good at the time
Mmm, delicious hindsight being 20/20…
doreen
can we call it Ragita? The roger agita saga.
SJ44 -
A month or so ago you were a proponent of dealing Hughes, Melky, and prospect(s) for Johan. What’s changed? Just curious…
The Yankees are out. They do not have an offer on the table. Its the Mets vs. Sox with Mets leading it. When people say the Yank are still in it, it would require Twins coming to the Yanks and asking for players. The Yanks will not initiate anything. Good News to me!
Anybody think if George were still running things we would have santana by now?
Joltin’ Joe -
Ragita it is!
I can’t see the redsox or mets paying santana money. santana might get more if he waits out the season and comes here as a FA in 09. rumor is we are 1st choice anyway.
Matt S-
I agree with you completely. Regardless of the production that the Big 3 offers this year, it will be an absolute battle for a playoff spot. Normally, that wouldn’t be an issue because you have to expect a little time for development of young pitchers. However, when you spend over 200M and the “boss” says that there will be consequences if they don’t make the playoffs, you are left in a terrible position if you’re the GM. The fact that Cashman is standing firm is somewhat impressive- if he wanted to keep the job going forward, I think it would far easier to say- “you’re right Hank, let’s move Hughes for Santana”.
Yeah didn’t Jaret Wright fail his first physical.And Jaret only had one good season in his carrer I believe.
And Yes I don’t blame Cashman for Pavano I wanted him but I also wanted to give up Wang for Beckett which would have gotten us a World series this year.Brown,Igawa,Vasquez,Weaver no excuse everybody was saying Brown and Igawa were bad.
Joltin Joe- I think the Mets will absolutely pay Santana (5-115-120 or something like that). They have Wright and Reyes locked in at nice numbers and are moving to a new stadium in a year. I don’t think any agreement on players will be reached unless the other team knows going into it that will be paying roughly 20M per for at least 5 years.
According to metsblog.com, the Mets just got Santana for 4 prospects.
Bob Nightengale (USA Today) is reporting the Santana deal with the Mets is done
http://www.usatoday.com/sports.....tana_N.htm
“The deal is pending the Mets and Santana reaching agreement on a six- or seven-year contract extension and that Santana passes a physical; they have been granted a 48 to-72-hour window to do so. Santana has a no-trade clause that he will waive if agreement is reached on a contract extension.
The Mets paid a high price in prospects to land Santana, agreeing to send the Twins outfielder Carlos Gomez and pitchers Phil Humber, Deolis Guerra and Kevin Mulvey.”
Buster Olney is about to go on the Michael Kay show with his take on this. Kay said that Olney thinks it’s VERY close
http://www.metsblog.com
Mets get Santana for Carlos Gomez and pitchers Phil Humber, Deolis Guerra and Kevin Mulvey
On paper, I’ll take the Yankees lineup over any other in baseball other than Detroit’s. It’s exciting to think the damage the top of the rotation with Santana and Wang could do. If Pettitte comes through the hearings ok, I’d put those 3 against anybody’s top 3.
On the other hand, it’s exciting to think of putting Phil Hughes out there with that lineup too. I don’t think I’ve seen enough of IPK to get excited about,even though I did witness 2 of his starts in person. I’m not yet convinced that without an increase in velocity,IPK will ever be a top of the rotation kind of pitcher.
All I know is I’m glad I don’t have to make these decisions for real.
Saw it at mlbfleecefactor too. Wow.
By the way — kudos to metsblog.com and Matthew Cerrone
He’s been on this story for a long time, and he was right all along
Brown, Igawa, Weaver, Pavano, Vasquez. What a rotation! Maybe this is why Cash is gun-shy.
Brown/Vasquez/Weaver were trades
All 3 had good year(s) before being traded to the Yankees
Igawa was a reaction signing to Matsuzaka, but remember that he still was a strikeout king in Japan at the time
scooter,
wouldn’t be the first time kay jumped the gun, shill that he is.
My only reason for not wanting to trade Hughes at this point is it appears the package of players the Twins are willing to take from other teams is far less in value than the one with Hughes in it.
It would be the Yankees paying $2 for a .99 cent hamburger that other customers only have to .99 cents for.
I don’t like seeing the Yankees get held up to that kind of robbery when the Twins are actually considering Carlos Gomez as the headliner of a Mets package filled with pitchers who can’t even make the Mets who need pitchers more than anyone.
If it were the winter meetings again many weeks ago and we traded Hughes for Johan that would be a different story. I was ready to do it then to get the deal done.
But since then, all the Twins have shown is that they don’t know what they are doing and have backed down on talent demands if they are seriously talking with the Mets.
That Mets package is a bundle of serious question marks. The only guy with major league experience (Gomez) can’t hit at the major league level.
IPK, Melky and 2 decently reagarded minor leaguers would dwarf what the Mets are offering.
IPK pitched well as a starter in a pennant race and Melky is an above avg. defensive starting CF with room to grow offensively who is still very young.
Them asking for Hughes now should be met with a laugh.
The Red Sox have the best offers if they still exist, but I’m thinking they are just in it to keep the Yankees honest. They’ve had plenty of time to pull the trigger with the Twins and make that one last tweak to get the deal done and they haven’t.
I still think they don’t want to pay him the money.
I guess our mantra now is… Go Phil!!!!! LOL
Wow we could have had Beckett for Wang? I didn’t know that!!!!!
blargh, lets throw wright into the mix. trades count as bad decisions don’t they?
Blargh-
They had a good year in the N.L.
An absolute steal for the Mets. They didn’t even have to give up their best hitting (Martinez) and pitching (Pelfrey) prospects in the deal.
Congrats to them.
That Twins GM should have to wear a dunce cap to any press conferences from here on out.
Santana deal reached!!! WOw, what a steal for the Mets.. Garbage for the twins..
http://www.usatoday.com/sports.....tana_N.htm
I cannot believe it!
Bill Smith: You snooze, you lose. I’m in agreement with the thinking along those lines.
Whether he trades Johan to the Mets or the Yanks wait out the season and sign him in ’09 with Giambi’s freed-up salary … well either is fine with me.
I would have been very reluctant to accept trading one of the 3 prodigal sons back when the rumors were really starting to swirl around. Sure the prospect of having Santana in the rotation (especially back hen Pettitte wasn’t a given) was tempting. But Hughes’ or Kennedy’s potential upside is/are too hard to dismiss.
It would have taken Santana being a monster for the next 4 years and/or Hughes pulling a Pavano by then to convince me. If they’re both still around, I think Hughes will be a better pitcher than Johan in 2014. I’m more reluctant to accept losing one of the 3 for Johan now.
For those who voiced concerned about losing future draft picks by getting Johan via FA next year, it won’t be that big of a deal. Yes, that pick is a prospect. But it’s too hard to tell what you’ll get down the road with a specific pick as far back as this winter, a full year before that hypothetical prospect would be drafted. Just because the Twins would get draft pick(s) for losing Santana via FA doesn’t mean they’d pick the same guys the Yanks would have.
Besides, NY will get some picks in return anyways when Giambi & Moose & etc move on. Depending on where they go, maybe the teams they’ll go to will be giving higher picks to NY than NY would have lost to the Twinkies in a hypothetical ’09 Santana signing. I’d want to keep Hughes and take my chances with those picks.
At least that’s how I understand how compensatory picks work.
Dougko – Going to Dante’s for lunch tomorrow. If you want I’ll FedEx one of those roast beef wedges to you.
Bad luck has a lot to do with things. People forget that Boston’s offer for Carla Pavano was just about the same as the Yanks’. We were unlucky enough to be the “winners” of the sweepstakes.
Yes, we have no respect for the NL NOW
When did we lose all respect for the NL again? Before or after the Randy Johnson trade?
From what I hear from others (SJ44 was it?), the Marlins wanted both Cano and Wang for Beckett
fleas
dont be surprised if deal falls through.
How can Cashman not beat that deal.Seriously.The Twins didn’t get anything.How is Ian Kennedy,Melky,Horne,and Marquez not better.This is the Beckett deal all oer again.
FINALLY!! Im glad we are done with the Santana offseason loooong discussions. All i have to say is “welcome home Phil Phranchise”. Now win us a Cy Young this year. Will ya.
Did the Mets sign the next Pedro in rehab?
This is what drives me crazy on these things how is it that BOTH Boston and New York would have had to give up top A Level prospects as well as major league ready player(s) and the Mets get away with prospects and players that have barely played in the big league.
I know you can never know what happens when it comes to prospects but if I am a Twins fan I am not a happy camper today.
PS I didnt waqnt the Yankees to get him anyway but still from a Twins perspective how do you justify this to your fanbase.
BREAKING NEWS
From Rotoworld:
USA Today believes the Mets have landed Johan Santana from the Twins for Carlos Gomez, Deolis Guerra, Kevin Mulvey and Philip Humber
god I suck
“From what I hear from others (SJ44 was it?), the Marlins wanted both Cano and Wang for Beckett”
of course they did. how on earth would Wang have landed Beckett in the 2006 off-season? ignore McLovin, he doesn’t know anything.
McLovin: Blaming Cashman for Bill Smith not wanting to trade within the AL?
Blargh-
The NL always sucked and proff is since interleague play.Clemens and Johnson were great in the NL in there later years because if the Rockies and ’06 Cardnials can dominate a league anyone can.Have you seen the NL Central.
But I wouldn’t have given up both Wang and Cano.But I would still give up WAng and I believe the big reason the REd Sox got Beckett was they took Lowell’s contract.
Santana to Mets, done deal.
http://tinyurl.com/yvp3rk
McLovin,
I completely agree with you.
I’m guessing the Twins were stuck on Hughes and if they couldn’t get him from the Yanks, they couldn’t go back to their fanbase and take anyone less than him from the Yanks after bungling this whole thing up like they did.
And they bungled it up folks. To go from having Hughes, Melky and other prospects in the bag at the winter meetings to this package is a major loss.
All those Bill Smith is wonderful blurbs after the Delmon Young trade are going to switch to Bill Smith is an idiot.
“Wow we could have had Beckett for Wang? I didn’t know that!!!!!”
This is a fallacy. The Marlins wanted Wang and Cano for Beckett. McLovin just likes to see himself type.
gayle
Because the twins were forced to settle for this package.
Blagh-
I don’t think they didn’t want to put SAntana in the AL.BUt I hope Cashman at least offered something.The Twins didn’t get anything this isn’t a joke.Gomez is at least now a 4th outfielder and none of those pitchers you can put in the rotaion for at leat 2 years.
Unreal, I don’t get it. I cannot believe that the Mets STOLE Santana for this. This deal will NOT fall through, the Mets will pay him for the 7 years, they have to with the crap package they just got him for.
I am also upset. Cashman has made some garbage pitching moves over the past years, and finally when a real ACE comes to the trading block he marries his prospects. Shame on him for letting this deal going down to the Mets without being able to beat that.
Unless, this report by USA Today is a phony.. (Is that possible).
I tell you this, Mets just stole Santana. Why was the RedSox package not taken over the Mets package?
Again, I cannot believe we had a chance to get him an blew it.
You can hate me all you want, But this year for the Yankees won’t even get us to the playoffs –MARK MY WORDS– the kids arms just don’t have the innings (not eeven close) on them..
We are the same damn team, with a few potential awesome young pitchers who can’t give us a whole season.
I just don’t see us getting anything done, Oh well, it will be fun to watch the kids which most of you here thought was more important than a REAL ace.
Wow, Bill Smith should be fired.
You forgot to mention giving up one of thier best prospects in Ramirez and Sanchez.
Do I hear a collective, “Whew!”?
Met fans can come in off the ledge.
the Yanks could not sign Santana.. He is getting $20 + for minimum 5 yrs.. the Yanks cnnot increase there insane payroll anymore.
after this yr. would have been another story.. Santana wants 7 yrs……
“Again, I cannot believe we had a chance to get him an blew it.”
Cashman offered the Twins Hughes/Melky/Marques plus another prospect and the Twins didn’t take the offer. How is it again that Cashman blew it? He did not marry his prospects, the Twins GM decided he could get more and got greedy.
Do you not understand this?
Fleas-
Even if the Yankees get to the playoffs they will put these pitchersd to the test.Can anyone say Kerry Wood and Mark Prior.THats what should worry people.How many innings can Hughes go.
Fleas- I really like Hughes, etc but agree 100%. This will likely be Cashman’s endgame. We may thank him in 3-4 years, but it will be tough for Hank to swallow watching Santana bring crowds into Flushing and lead the team to the playoffs and open a new stadium while he can only dream about what could have been. I hope Hughes, IPK and Joba all turn into stars, but its unlikely that any of them turn into Johan.
Yanks and Red Sox made offers
Bill Smith passed
Why yes, let’s blame Cashman (oh, and Epstein too, cause he didn’t get Santana as well!) for Smith turning down their offers and ending up with a lesser package from the Mets
any possibility of satan turning this deal down?
Thank you Omar!
Let the Hughes era officially begin!
Fleas,
I’m with you.
I know everyone is going to blame Hank going public at the winter meetings and confirming that Hughes was on the table as the reason Cashman couldn’t make a deal without Hughes in it.
I buy that to an extent, but Cashman should have been able to find a route to take to make this deal without having to include Hughes or Joba.
I think Cashman definitely married his prospects this year and I’m stunned. This is the same guy who signed Igawa, Pavano, Latroy Hawkins, etc…but he can’t cough up some minor league talent for a Cy Young winner.
The organization has enough minor league depth for once to make the trade for an ace and we back away looking down at our toes instead.
The Mets fleeced the Twins here and we can all come up with about 50 packages w/o Hughes or Joba that the Yankees could have offered that would beat the Mets offer.
If Hank confirming Hughes was in the deal at the meetings killed this for the Yankees, then so be it.
I just think a good GM could have found a way to make the Twins fall in love with his other prospects.
I have a hard time believing that some combination IPK, Melky, Horne, Ohlendorf, Austin Jackson, Tabata, Marquez couldn’t have gotten this deal done.
This is great for the Mets, but that’s a big contract to take on. And it’s great if they don’t have to give up their hotshot 19-yr. old prospect, but boy I bet he feels lonely. The farm is EMPTY.
Hopefully this ace will hold up better than the last one they got.
fleas,
Would you have preferred him going to Boston? I dont think he is worth 7 yrs. 25 mil per yr. He gave up 33 bombs last year and who knows if its a result of some type of injury. I dont care what the Mets gave. Im just glad he didnt go to our rivals.
As far as not making the playoffs. I dont know how you can count this team out when they had the best record in the second half of last year with the same squad. We are the Yankees. If we have a weekness or a need this year. We will go out and get it by trade. Keep your head up. Phil will prove Cash made the best move by keeping him.
http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/news_sto.....38;hubname=
LET the Mets eat Cake !
“Cashman offered the Twins Hughes/Melky/Marques plus another prospect and the Twins didn’t take the offer. How is it again that Cashman blew it? ”
The Hughes Deal was pulled at the Winter Meetings..”
Cashman couldn’t come up with better than what the Mets just dealt?????
Hence he just blew it!!!! But he is great for bringing things like Kei Igawa aboard!
I was glad that Torre was axed.
I was glad that Arod came back.
I WILL be glad when Cashman get’s booed out of town for letting one of the best pitchers in baseball go to the mets for garbage!
Write this in your little books and remember I said it..
NOT having Santana will come back to haunt us all season long… ALL Season long!
fleas, youve got to get over the win now at all costs mentality. this was done for the future. there will be life beyond 08. there will be other free agents. the youngsters will get beyond their innings cap. think long term.
That loud noise you just heard was Phil and Melky exhaling.
You know, I was looking forward to not having to hear about Santana anymore once he was traded. Except he’s in NY anyway, so I’m stuck hearing about him.
It won’t be hard for Hank to accept Santana not making life hard for the Yanks hitters whether he’s in a Twins uniform or a Sux uniform.
When he pitches for NY in either uniform during a subway series, either stadium will be totally full. And the Yanks will sell just about as many tickets during the season whether he wears pinstripes or not.
I never wanted to trade Phil Hughes! I love Phil Hughes and thinks he is awesome. I always have.
However, I would have traded him for Santana if I absolutely had to.
The Mets got Santana for what? We couldn’t beat that offer ten fold? Please.. You can keep saying all that you want, but this will turn out to be a major mistake that you will regret as one of the worst decisions of all time by the Yankees!
anyway, how about kidd to the knicks for eddy curry
The saga is over. Theo and Cashman let out a loud sigh. And when you think about it the whole Santana saga turned (or probably) turned out best for all parties. The Yanks keep the kids, the BoSox don’t get him and they don’t let him go to the Yanks, Santana is out of the AL, and so on. People can complain that the Mets got Santana for a steal or for nothing. However,to be fair, one should follow the career of the prospects involved and that of Santana and in a couple of years re-evaluate to see if it was truly a “steal”. Suppose Santana’s 2nd half of 2007 carries into the new season or his elbow becomes a concern…would he have been worth it???
One more thing. Hank came out and said he wouldnt go past 5 years weeks ago. Santana supposidly turned down a 5 yr. 100 million from the Twins. What we seem to forget is even if we had better players to offer, we didnt want to sign him for what hes looking for. So we’re beating a dead horse if you ask me. We should be thanking the Mets for getting him out of Fenway or any other a.l. contending team.
cashman is shellshocked, that’s why the trigger wasnt pulled.
Say it ain’t so –
Well the good news is (assuming the rumor/deal is true) very soon after the dust settles on the deal, at least we won’t have to keep reading about all the Santana trade rumors anymore.
A) I’m glad that a deal was done.
B) I do not understand the people here who are blaming Cashman for not including everything the Twins wanted to do a deal with them. It was not JUST Hughes that the Twins wanted; it was 2/3 of the trio of young pitchers the Yankees have that are major-league-ready. And, in agreement with a fellow blogger above, if you fault Cashman for not getting a deal done, then you have to say Theo Esptein didn’t do a very good job either.
C) It seems fairly obvious that the asking price by the Twins was higher for their direct competitors in the AL.
Good for the Mets. And good for the Yankees that the Red Sox didn’t get him!
THis isn’t a rebuilding team.With 7-8 rookies in the pitching staff is dangerous.
Like Hank said we will take our time but only for awhile.CAsh better hope this team goes past the ALDS.
or maybe there are legit questions re satana’ elbow
“Cashman couldn’t come up with better than what the Mets just dealt?????
Hence he just blew it!!!! But he is great for bringing things like Kei Igawa aboard!”
You guys keep missing the point that the Yankees (Hal AND Cash) did not want to pay a pitcher 20+ Million a year for SEVEN years. Pitchers are too fragile. Not doing this deal had nothing to do with not being able to beat the Mets package. It had to do with the contract extension we didn’t want to give him and possibly the Twins not entertaining a lesser package from us, even if they did from the Mets.
“The Hughes Deal was pulled at the Winter Meetings..â€
Cashman couldn’t come up with better than what the Mets just dealt?????
Hence he just blew it!!!! But he is great for bringing things like Kei Igawa aboard!”
Yes the deal was pulled after the Twins asked for Kennedy as well.
Again, do you not understand this or do you just like complaining for the sake of complaining? Get over it, the Yankees aren’t going to have Santana. Big deal.
Melky, Phil, IPK, or any other name that’s been thrown around for weeks can now feel settled knowing where they’ll be. This can loom large mentally for them. The Mets will get the deal done being in a similar financial situation as the Yankees with a new stadium.
The one thing the Yankees don’t have to worry about is needing Santana to draw crowds….the closing of the old Yankee Stadium and opening the new Yankee Stadium will take care of that…and by the way, I believe they drew some 4-million plus the last two years.
If Santana wasn’t going to be a FA, this is the best thing that could have happened.
Also, there is still the fact that Santana did have a down year and I did read that some may be speculating that Santana wanted to get this done and sign the extention without having to throw a pitch.
Joltin’ Joe,
A Johan trade is not a win now at all costs.
The freaking Mets didn’t even have to give up their top 2 prospects in Pelfrey and Fernando Martinez.
The Yankees are overloaded with well regarded RH pitching prospects.
If we gave up three of them (including IPK) and Melky, it would barely be win now at all costs, since there are about 15 more in the organization waiting to step up and take their place.
Replacing IPK and Melky with Johan would have been a good move and not doomed the future of the team since we have adeuquate replacements coming for both of those guys in the minor leagues.
We don’t even have enough room for all the minor league talent we’ve stockpiled right now, hence you trade from strength and get a Cy Young winner.
The Mets stole the guy. The Yanks sat by and let it happen.
I think that the moment Hank confirmed Hughes was on the table was the moment this trade fell apart for the Yanks since we couldn’t step back from having him in the package.
The Red Sox were actually smart to have 2 packages out there publicly.
All anyone knew about the Yankees package was it had Hughes and Melky.
I think that killed us in the end since our GM really didn’t want to trade them for Johan at any time.
The front office needs to come together in the future and figure this relationship out so this doesn’t happen again.
JOHAN WAS TRADED TO THE METS…CHECK MY BLOG
Wonder how long it will take Yankees beat repoter Pete will report this.On this website.
Sabathia
Johan didn’t go to Boston, the Yankees keep Hughes, Melky and IPK and saved beaucoup bucks. Time will tell but it sounds like a good outcome to me.
Now Phil, IPK and Joba can get down to writing some pinstriped history as The Big Three.
I say go to the Brewers with a lesser package and get Sheets at a much lower price. A risk worth taking. Or go to the twins and offer a Melky plus a pitching prospect for Nathan.
Alright, how about this, Fleas and G. Love
What is the most YOU, as the Yanks GM, would have offered for Santana
And why do you think BILL SMITH would accept it
Remember that he passed on everything that Cashman and Epstein offered
“Cashman couldn’t come up with better than what the Mets just dealt????? ”
Yes, he could. However, the Twins were reportedly uninterested in any Yankee package that did not contain Phil Hughes. So…what’s Cash to do?
G. Love
Well Said. There is much disharmony at Legends Field right now. Trust that.
I bet if HGH Pettitte wasn’t scared to lose $16 million when the Mitchell report came out Cashman would have made the deal.
Let the CC Sabathia rumors go.
Why does everyone talk about giving up IPK, Melky and two other RHP prospects? That is not what the Twins wanted from the Yankees…they wanted Hughes, IPK, Melky and some other top prospect. That is a deal I am glad the Yankees did not do.
Now if the the Yankees turned down a deal of IPK, Melky and two other RHP prospects for Santana, I would say they are fools for not doing that deal, but they didn’t, so stop acting like they did.
Teams dont lose the playoffs in Jan. There will be a lot of other factor that will come in to play. If our kids do well, we wont even remember this day
“Yes, he could. However, the Twins were reportedly uninterested in any Yankee package that did not contain Phil Hughes. So…what’s Cash to do?”
quiet, you are interrupting the whining and blaming.
Johan = d.l. Pedro
7 yrs = Pavanoisk mistake
Phil in 2 years = Cy Young candidate
Am I dreaming? Whoah! Wait, did Johan Santana just get traded to the Mets for almost nothing??
If you the Yankees could trade 4 players of the same caliber as the Mets you don’t think they would pay Santana for 6 or 7 years? Man Pleeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaase!
“Why does everyone talk about giving up IPK, Melky and two other RHP prospects?”
because we want to blame Cashman for not making trades that never existed.
it’s really obvious to me that the Twins weren’t interested in trading Johan within the AL. not only were the Yankees offering more talent, so were the Red Sox.
They obviously didn’t want to because he appears to be headed to the Mets.
whozat and hmmm,
Will you talk some sense to some of these guys.
HANK DIDNT WANT TO PAY MORE THAN 5 YEARS!! Who cares what the package was.
The Yanks were not going to be held up by a rookie GM. Not on Hank’s watch. As far as being loaded with prospects, Ive been hearing that crap for years. Hughes and IPK are their best prospects and neither you or I know that the Twins didnt want both, which was out of the question.
Boston Dave,
Two things changed for me. First, the Twins asked for more from the Yankees (and the Red Sox) than they eventually got from the Mets. My feeling is, why overpay? Made no sense in the end.
Second, as the season got closer, I just feel that trading two of your three best young pitchers AND your starting CF for one arm is too much.
Its not like there is another CF on the market the Yankees could acquire to fill the gap left by Melky. I don’t think Damon can play 150 games in CF at this point in his career and Austin Jackson isn’t yet ready.
As good as Santana is, NOBODY is worth that much.
The big thing is, he’s not going to Boston.
I could care less if he goes to the Mets.
Cashman didn’t blow anything. It takes two to make a deal. The Twins got greedy and it cost them bigtime.
I said it when it happened in December. If Smith doesn’t take the Hughes deal, he will regret it.
In the end, the Twins took a lesser deal because they had to and because it got Santana out of the AL.
Classic case of a GM (Smith) screwing up a deal and hurting his franchise.
“If you the Yankees could trade 4 players of the same caliber as the Mets”
And you’re ignoring the point that THEY COULDN’T. The Twins would not have accepted such a deal from the Yankees. Or the Red Sox.
What a DISASTER of a trade for the Twins!!! I understand they wanted to trade him to the NL and not AL BUT you go from asking for 2 top prospects. To Hughes AND Kennedy….and then you wind up getting 4 low level prospects and not even 1 close to top prospect. Why not just keep him. They did not get back one player that will help there major league team next year. Great job Smith, Twins fans must be proud.
hmmm: exactly
And gee, nobody’s bashing Epstein here for failing to nab Santana
Even though Epstein made offers superior to the Mets package back in December, like Cashman
And Bill Smith spurned whatever offers were made by Epstein, like the offers made by Cashman
Oh wait, apparently Cashman was supposed to mind control Smith into not being a greedy bum when it comes trading within the AL and accept a deal that would’ve been nice for the Twins too
Unfortunately, Cashman can’t do that, oh well
Interesting how everyone knows everything about the prospects involved. I find it hard to believe that some in here think they know more about prospects than the major league clubs do. Wah, we didn’t get Santana. We do not need him. Just another high priced player, we have had enough of those. We came close to winning the division last year after a horrendous start. We will be there again.
SJ,
As I pointed out over at River Ave. Blues, unless Sabathia AND Teixeira are available next off-season, the Yankees will have a TON of money coming off the books and nobody to spend it on after 2008.
OTOH, this trade makes it likely Pettitte is with the Yankees in 2009 (assuming Pettitte wants to pitch in 2009).
I’m thrilled. For whatever reason, it does seem like the Twins accepted less from the Mets than they asked of the Yanks. But I’m more excited to see some homegrown talent and avoid the big albatross contract.
I’m just not looking forward to the bellyaching when Santana goes to a pitcher’s park in the NL and puts up big numbers. There will be plenty of people transposing those numbers to the AL East and coming with all these what-if scenarios, and calling for Cashman’s head. Not me, though.
“quiet, you are interrupting the whining and blaming.”
hilarious.
Also Smith didn’t even get Martinez from the Mets!! How do you make that trade without him…He was the closest thing to a top prospect. But the #1 pitching prospect in baseball wasnt good enough for him..
For the Hank bashers. You have to give him props. This time he finally stuck to his words and didnt pull the trigger after saying he was out.
“HANK DIDNT WANT TO PAY MORE THAN 5 YEARS!! Who cares what the package was.”
The Mets said the same thing. If the Twins had offered to take a package from the Yanks of Jackson/Tabata, Horne, Marquez and Betances (similar to the Mets package)…I think the Yankees would certainly have been willing to entertain the thought of a 6 year deal.
hmmm,
Great point
I would have offered IPK, Melky, Austin Jackson or Tabata and Horne or Marquez for Johan.
If that doesn’t beat the package they just took from the Mets, then every person rating minor league prospects in baseball is wrong.
The Mets just made a deal without surrendering their two best prospects in their system and those two prospects can’t even lick Phil Hughes’ boot.
It’s clear to me that either the Yankees have suddenly become spendthrifts (yet they are raising the price of everything at the stadium again and they will never lower prices regardless of payroll people) or they didn’t want the guy.
That’s their right, but looking at a rotation that contains young players with innings caps and a declining Mussina who was kicked out of the rotation so we could win last season, isn’t awe inspiring.
If Johan goes 20-5 for the Mets, pitches 200 innings and K’s 200, there will be a lot of people in here who wished some of these prospects Cashman guarded like diamonds were traded for him.
The funny thing is, if Johan is good for the Mets and the Yanks struggle, odds are Cashman won’t even be back.
G Love
Are you a fan of G Love and Special Sauce….therefore the screen name G Love?
Twins fans must be thrilled! That’s, uh, quite a package.
Boston fans must be relieved. They really love Coco Crisp.
G. Love: Smith tells you that Boston’s now offering him something juuuust a bit better than what you offered; he wants more
Or, Smith values getting Santana out of the AL more than you expected; he wants more
For either situation, what do you do now?
Is it too early to say, “Our long national nightmare is now over!”?
Hello, ray. (in my most menacing Newman voice).
I find it really hard to believe that the Mets will give him 7 years/$140m. So lets see if they can even get an extension done. With the Mets luck with free agents they should sign Santana up now for his arm surgery.
“Also Smith didn’t even get Martinez from the Mets!! How do you make that trade without him…”
this is what i don’t understand.
of course, it is possible that people inside baseball know something about Johan that we don’t.
i mean, Johan Santana was put on the market and 3 teams bid? and of all the 3 teams that bid, all 3 put their #1 prospect on the untouchable list?
when Teixiera was available, the Braves parted with their top prospect. when Cabrera was available, the Tigers parted with their top 2 prospects. the Mariners are willing to part with their #1 prospect for Bedard. all of these players will command 9 figure contracts within 2 years.
so what is going on???
sometimes it’s interesting to follow what the market is doing and ask if maybe we aren’t missing some information.
HMMM,
Great point! I know it might be hard to believe but there are people in baseball that know a lot more than people on this blog.
I say we up the ante.. Igawa,Gonzo,Farnsy and Karstens for Liriano
hmmm,
Could it be like some people speculate, that he might have some arm problems?
Hello Mel….in an even more menacing voice!!!!! How are you?
Ray, It’s a nickname someone gave me in college. It’s close to my actual name.
Blargh, what do I do now? Go on a message and cry.
I think Omar owes a nice steak dinner with all the fixings to Cahsman and Theo. They both just made him look like a genius.
I really believe that Hank confirming who we had on the table killed this deal.
It’s hard to blame Cashman for that happening.
I’m just upset he couldn’t recover from that and find a way to make the trade without having to part with Hughes.
Apparently, I think that was the kiss of death and Hank (who I like) I think had a big hand in killing this deal.
Yes, the Twins screwed up by not taking the Hughes offer at the winter meetings. No doubt about that based on what they just did today.
Their fans are furious they left him and potentially Ellsbury and Lester on the table because of how the GM handled this deal.
I just wish Cashman found another way to make this happen more in line with the Mets just gave up.
We have the depth at the farm to make a deal like this.
And I want nothing to do with CC Sabathia who is going to eat himself out of the league within 5 years.
I wanted Johan. I liked his makeup a lot.
What’s interesting is, Johan Santana could put up great numbers with the Mets and it still may not be enough for them to win.
They need more than one pitcher to make the playoffs. That’s a terrible pitching staff.
Too many Yankee fans are afraid to go into a season without every (supposed) position covered with “knowns”.
Me? I like the unknown. They have a damn good team heading to Tampa.
They are working in some younger players and some of these guys are MUCH better than people think.
I also don’t underestimate the change in the manager’s chair. For this team, I think it will do wonders for them.
Would have loved to have Santana IF the price was right. It wasn’t so you move on.
It’s hard to believe the Yankees couldn’t have offered a better deal of prospects even without including Hughes. I really think the Yankees will look back on this day with regret, as one of the best pitchers of our generation was available and they didn’t go full force after him. Hard to believe some package of Horne, Tabata, Kennedy AJax, etc couldn’t beat this. If the team was dissuaded by paying Johan, shae on them for that. If any pitcher is worth it, he is.
The Mets are obviously winners by getting Johan, but this is a great day for the Red Sox too. Santana doesn’t go to the Yankees and goes out of league. The Red Sox have such depth at pitching that they don’t need Santana. The Yankees don’t have that luxury. Hughes, Joba and Kennedy are still question marks (to some degree), Wang and Pettitte are solid, but not lock down aces and who knows about Mussina?
No doubt, as a Yankee fan, today hurts.
Captain’s Corner,
I suspect that Santana will get what he needs. Not Yankee money, but he’s not going to hold out. Besides, the Mets aren’t afraid to spend.
I think we’re missing the point that Santana really didn’t have a preference of where he wanted to pitch. Otherwise he would’ve told the Twins where to make the deal.
Those poor people in his hometown. They’ll be wearing Mets gear instead of Yankee gear. How tragic.
If there are any real arm problems, the Mets won’t pass him on his physical.
They are not that stupid.
“Could it be like some people speculate, that he might have some arm problems?”
could be. could be the money, i guess, but i find that hard to believe. shouldn’t the Angels have been willing to trade for Johan instead of signing Torrii Hunter?
wouldn’t the Dodgers have been better off spending Andruw’s money on Johan?
so what is it? his arm? the money? the LENGTH of the contract?
all 3?
G. Love, I don’t think you get it. Bill Smith was asking more from the Yankees and Red Sox than he was from the Mets because he wanted Santana out of the NL.
Both the Yankees and the Red Sox budged on surrendering both top-tier prospect talent *and* big money; the Mets didn’t. The Yankees pulled Hughes off the table, and–reportedly–Smith wasn’t interested in any deal from the Yankees without Hughes in it.
I think it’s really, really important to keep in mind that teams have the prerogative to go against the mold when it comes to player evaluations, too. The Twins have been high on Gomez since last off-season; maybe there’s something their scouts really, really like about him, to the point where they wanted a package fronting him over a package fronting anyone else (sans one fronting Hughes or one fronting Ellsbury).
If Smith says “If you don’t give up Hughes, no deal,” there’s really absolutely nothing Cashman can say at that point. He can throw out offers, offers that might beat the Mets’ package in talent according to a third-party observer, but the Twins still need to accept the package. As far as we can tell, Cashman was never given the chance to put together a package without Hughes in it. I applaud Cashman for not budging on Hughes, and acting rationally throughout this entire ordeal.
ray,
Life is good. Santana’s not headed to beantown!
Alot of baseball people assume he had an arm problem. Also not alot of teams would run to give a pitcher over $120m.
Changing the subject(as i have a bad habbit of doing)
Prediction
Igawa has a better e.r.a. this year than Dice walk.
Karstens ends up our long man.
Mussina traded to Philly by May.
Horne does a Hughes this year and has a no hitter through six.
Miranda takes the spot of Giambi due to injury.
“Hard to believe some package of Horne, Tabata, Kennedy AJax, etc couldn’t beat this. ”
i love how everyone just assumes they know exactly what the Yankees offered and when.
I think it’s clear, Twins wanted him out of the AL. He could’ve got better players from NYY or BOS.
Be happy. we kept our CF and at least one SP. Plus, remember the lesson of Pavano. Long term deals with pitchers rearly work out.
Lastly – AT LEAST WE ARE NOT LOOKING AT A BECKETT, SANTANA, SCHILLING ROTATION.
Sorry, my last comment should have read “refused to budge one” regarding the Yankees and Red Sox, not “budged”.
Hank didn’t kill this deal. What he said had NOTHING to do with anything.
How does Hank saying what’s on the table make the Twins take a lesser deal?
Please, learn a little about negotiations before you go off half cocked on theories.
Its not very complicated.
Neither the Yankees nor Red Sox wanted to surrender their top prospects AND pay a pitcher over 120 million dollars.
Look at the history of the game. Those type of deals for pitchers don’t work out.
Its that simple.
Apparently, the rest of the industry didn’t want to pay the Santana bounty either since, no other team stepped up to get Santana.
Omar? When your team choked away last season, he was desperate to do something.
In the end, he got ONE pitcher and he needs more in order for that team to win. He drained his farm system of 4 of his top 6 prospects AND is committing huge dollars in the process.
Good luck. There is no “genius” in desperation.
G. Love
Nicely put summary that says how I feel too. There is no other pitcher I’d want the Yankees to make a play for at the expense of the kids. Johan Santana is special. You’d think the pieces would be there to make a deal, and at least today, it stings.
SJ..I’m okay going in with unknowns but this team has a lot of unknowns. Adding Santana (at a price compareable to what the Mets paid) would have made it easier to handle the unknowns.
Hey Mel. Boston fans are excited that Coco is still in Boston just like Laker fans are excited that Kwame Brown is still a Laker!! I don’t get to watch the Lakers too much but sports radio people have been hammering on Brown.
Alas, all this stupid Santana speculation is at an end.
He is not in Boston and that is all I care about.
I hope he enjoys the Mets, it will give me that much more pleasure laughing at that franchise.
crappy deal for the twins. good deal for both yankees and red sox. mets get to pay that ugly contract.
Don’t get it! Why suddenly all Yankee fans here act like a Woody Allen character? Let’s be quiet and yield to Twins fans, who suffered the real injury, to sigh and groan.
Where is it said that Bill Smith wanted Johan out of the AL?
And the Mets arguably didn’t even offer their top tier prospects in the deal since they refused to include Fernando Martinez.
They got the prize and got to keep some chips.
I’m not stupid. I realize the Yankees weren’t going to get the prize and get to keep their chips.
The deal died for the Yanks the day it was confirmed by the owner that Hughes was included in the offer.
After that tactic didn’t work and the Yankees got sticker shock, there was no coming back without trading Hughes.
I understand all of this.
I just don’t understand why a GM in Minnesota who clearly just swallowed his pride and bent over took the Mets package, couldn’t have done the same with the Yankees by taking a package w/o Hughes in it.
Smith today has egg on his face.
I’d rather have the egg on my face and the Yankee prospects than egg on my face and the Mets prospects.
That’s not Cashman’s fault. I overreacted earlier. I know it takes 2 to tango.
I just think Smith is an idiot who just did his organization a disservice when he had the Yanks and Red Sox willing to pony up big talent at the winter meetings.
hmmm
I never said that the Yankees offered that package. I just said that it’s hard to believe that with the talent they have him the farm system, that they couldn’t have beaten this deal if they had choosen to.
I don’t know what the Yankees offered and when, but I believe they had enough to make a deal without including Hughes (and possibly Kennedy too).
I wanted Santana and would have been fine with trading Melky and Phil for him. But it didn’t happen so it’s time to hope for the best and move on. I’m excited to keep Phil Hughes.
You can’t help but feel bad for Twins fans/taxpayers. Their GM just gave away the best lefthander in baseball for next to nothing. That’s a fine Thank You for helping fund their new ballpark, huh?
….So this is what happens when I spend all day at class…
hmmm: the answer about why teams were making their #1 prospects unavailable has to do with what you’re getting: one guaranteed year of Johan Santana.
The Mariners get two guaranteed, relatively cost-controlled years of Erik Bedard.
The Tigers get Miguel Cabrera while he’s in his arbitration years.
The Braves didn’t really have anywhere to put Salty; McCann blocked him at catcher, and from what I’ve read, scouts and analysts doesn’t seem to think that Salty might be able to hold down the first base position with the bat.
While you might have the “privilege” of negotiating an extension with Johan Santana in dealing with the Twins, you’re not getting an extension at below-market value; the reason why Santana was waiving his no-trade at all (and why the Twins consented to dealing him) was because he was committed to testing the Free Agent market and getting what he perceived his value to be.
Big money contracts to pitchers tend not to be great; sure, Santana’s the best pitcher in the league right now, so the risk of a big contract is definitely reduced relative every other pitcher currently, in the game, but that doesn’t mean the risk is zero.
From a GMs point of view you always would rather trade your star player to the other league. But the main concern should be making sure you are getting back the best possible group of players that you can and making your team better the other stuff should be secondary. Smith made his team much worse and got back nothing just to keep him out of the AL. How can an owner agree to that trade??!!
I contend the Yankees could have and would have offered a better package. I think two things stopped them. Cashman doesnt want to get burned again by a long term pitching deal. The other is I’m convinced Twins wanted him away from ocmpeting for a WC spot down the line.
How else can you explain their GM taking such an awful deal? This is a very bad deal.
this mets package sucks my #$ %@#! Why are the twins so fricken stupid? Hughes alone would have been better than this crap package
I think most people would feel okay about losing Santana if our Set-up man wasn’t Fransworth and La Troy Hawkins who if I remember had a 6.00 Era with the Orioles in ’06.Having both a young unexpirence Rotation and Bullpen doesn’t make us feel comfortable like Cashman feels.
Cpt Corner,
Only reasonable explanation is he wanted to best Kevin McHale as worst Minny GM.
Gammons just took a leak all over the 4 Mets prospects in the deal on ESPN.
He said the 4 of them couldn’t even crack the top 10 of the Yankees or Red Sox prospects.
Why is it so hard for Yankee fans to go into a season without having without a doubt the best team? Some fans are such whiners.
“I don’t know what the Yankees offered and when, but I believe they had enough to make a deal without including Hughes (and possibly Kennedy too).”
That doesn’t matter. Because the Twins WOULD NOT LISTEN to offers that did not include Hughes.
And it’s not because Hank talked too much. This is what sending him to the NL was worth to them.
Dont think its anyone whining. More questioning this deal. doesnt make sense to those who follow prospects
ray,
Consider yourself lucky. It’s not really Kwame’s fault he was the number 1 pick or that he’s not Bynum or that he has hands of stone.
But, he’s a Laker and I support all my Lakers just like I support all my Yankees (exception: Pavano, but he’s not a Yankee, he’s an extortionist holding a spot on the roster.)
And yes, it’s a horrible deal by Smith on the Twins side
What’s next is to see what the Minnesota papers say tomorrow
See how badly they’ll trash Smith or the best spinjob they can deliver; either will be interesting
SJ44 -
Agreed that Hughes and Kennedy was too much to give up. I thought I remembered you saying that the Yanks should still pull the trigger on Hughes, Cabrera, plus 2 (Horne or Marquez plus Hilligoss) – which I agreed with.
I was curious if you still feel the Yanks should have made that deal (had it been available to them). I know many in here wouldn’t trade Hughes alone for Santana w/ new contract. May be a moot point now….
Clay Bellinger -
forgive the fans for wanting the best team possible and for always wanting to improve the team when possible. not sure who you’re a fan of but I think you are WAY off on your assessment.
Any Minny fans in here? Or has anyone visited the Twins blogs?
They were ripping the original Hughes deal saying it wasn’t close to enough. I wonder how they feel now.
Twins fans looking to relocate right about now… either that or shocked who gets shot first Kevin McHale or Bill Smith ?
Smith
At least McHale got back Al Jefferson xP
Just spoke to a colleague of mine in Minneapolis. So far, they are all really really upset about this deal. I checked in quickly on a couple of Twins blogs that had the info posted already and the fans were not happy . . . to say the least.