Santana talks continue with Mets
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jan 31, 2008 
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It’ll get done because it has to get done. But Peter Greenberg is reportedly seeking six years and $150 million for Johan Santana. That would be on top of the one year and $13.25 million he has for 2008.
Seven years and $163.25 million for a pitcher? Yikes. It probably won’t end up that high, but clearly the Mets are going to owe Santana at least $125 million. The Yankees (and Red Sox) passed for that reason as much as anything.
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As you probably noticed, the look of the blog changed a little when they redesigned the overall LoHud.com site.
I had the tech guys (and thanks to Jeff Marx) bump up the size of the text today. So that should be set.
The blogroll also changed. In the interest of being fair to everybody, the fans blogs are now listed in alphabetical order. I can now add, delete or fix links myself, so if you know of any changes that need to be made, please let me know.
We’re ready for spring training. Next week will feature a guide to spring training in Tampa and a position-by-position breakdown of the players coming to camp. I’ll be in Tampa on Feb. 11.
Pete, you forgot to draw attention to your new photo!
Yeah! I love ABC order. Can’t wait for spring training, too. It’s mind-boggling to me that tomorrow is February 1st. I feel like I just finished putting away the Christmas decorations. Whew!
Why would it be lower than $163.25M i.e. why would they take less? Santana via Greenberg has the Mets by the balls. They’re holding all the cards, not the Mets. If the Mets don’t give them what they want, they can simply kill the deal and Santana could become a free agent after this year and literally write his own ticket.
Now the Yanks and everyone else know what Santana wants after 2008: 6 years @ $25M per = $150M.
If I were Santana, I’d refuse to be traded and opt for free agency and you wanna laugh? That’d be better for the Twins than this trade cuz the Twins pair of compensation draft picks would be better than the crap their IDIOT new g.m. accepted from the Mets (crap compared to what he wanted from the Yanks and Red Sox).
When you consider what Zito got paid, it’s understandable that Santana’s agent is trying to blow that figure away.
Pete, why the change to your photo. The shirt & tie was a classy dignified look. The new one makes you look like a sportswriter. You don’t want to run the risk of alienating the thousands of comely new female readers that are sure to join The Blog community during the drive for 27 in ’08.
I’m glad the Yanks didn’t trade for Santana, especially for the names that were tossed around at the last minute. Kennedy AND Wang AND Melky and prospect(s)? Back in December I was on the fence with Wang out of it and decent replacement OFs available. I was more skeptical with Hughes in the deal instead of Kennedy. Throw Wang in now, with no reasonable replacement for Melky? No way. Not unless you throw in a prosciutto, chicken, mozzarella & sweet pepper panini from Dante’s Deli in White Plains. I’d even give Johan an extra option year for that.
Lookin’ GQ in the new pic there Pete, you stud.
I wouldn’t look back on the non-deal. Of course ownership’s thinking when they look back in October might become skewed if Santana wins the NL Cy Young, and Melky Hughes & Kennedy all fizzle or get injured as the Yanks miss the playoffs.
There’s a good chance Santana could win the NL Cy Young (assuming he doesn’t develop arm trouble) but nobody has a crystal ball. I doubt Kennedy or Hughes will win the AL Cy Young this year (although down the road they could) and I don’t think Melky will win MVP but I don’t think that makes the non-trade a failure by any means.
Is there a #1 Minnesota Twins baseball blog similar to the Pete Abrams gem we are lucky to have ???
It’s gotta be a ‘hoot’ !!!
Maybe Santana needs to get this deal done because he is wearing down. Maybe he doesnt want to throw another pitch until he is PAID. Unlikely Yes but who knows.
Yeah cuz Santana is better than Zito. Santana is the best starting pitcher in baseball and one Cy Young Award away from first ballot Hall Of Fame induction. If his agent is asking for 6 years and $150M after this year, then that’s what he’ll get cuz it’s either him or Livan Hernandez who is a serviceable FIFTH starter who MIGHT be a serviceable fourth starter at this point. He’s getting that from the Yanks or someone else. There will be no compromise or discount.
Omar Minaya did his job, now it’s up to Mets’ ownership under Fred Wilpon to do theirs which is to lock up Santana. If Wilpon isn’t willing to give Santana what he wants, Minaya should quit cuz why on Earth would he want to work for/ be part of a team that he delivered the best starter in M.L.B. to for let’s face it, nothing, only for that team to go cheap? I mean this deal is what g.m.s are paid to execute. Minaya should be given the g.m. of the year award if there is one already if this deal is sealed, and I’d give him second place in the voting if it wasn’t cuz again he did his part (job).
While I posted that I thought ownership’s view might become skewed on the non-deal IF Santana wins the NL Cy Young, and Melky Hughes & Kennedy all fizzle or get injured as the Yanks miss the playoffs, I do NOT think our kids’/teams fate will actually be that.
Experience with seeing some posters responses to such hypothetical comments reminds me to specifically clarify that that’s not what I actually expect to happen. That should be obvious because I’d said I thought not making the Santana was the best decision. However, the obvious is not always so obvious to all.
Neither Hughes nor Kennedy have to be as good as Santana to justify the Yankees not doing the deal. They just have to contribute to winning.
Last I checked, its about the TEAM winning, not individual stats.
If both guys contribute to a winning team, its good enough.
There are no sure things in baseball. The Mets, while improved, are certainly no shoe-ins for anything, just because they have Johan Santana.
Unless, of course, everyone has already forgotten the El Foldo the Mets pulled last year.
Hey Pete, whatever happened with Wang’s arbitration? Did I miss the news?
The El Foldo is another reason that Santana’s gonna get one really nice contract
So the Zito contract..Santana being Santana..the collapse…what else is there to pump that deal up?
Folks. We will all have forgotten about this when Sabathia is wearing pinstripes come next year.
“If both guys contribute to a winning team, its good enough.”
In real life, that’s true. That won’t stop Michael Kay from talking about how Hughes or Kennedy is doing in relation to Santana during every single start either one of them makes.
I like the new look Peter. The photo update is cool too, nice pic of the Stadium in the background, but you definitely looked more studly in the suit and tie.
Thanks for your hard work, we’ll look forward to the position-by-position break down.
Pete,
The new layout looks good, but there’s the same problem as before that about 1/2 to 1/3 of the posts don’t display properly in mobile form. At least that’s how it works out viewing from my Verizon phone web browser.
Maybe you could pass word along to your tech guys? I can name a few posts where this happens if need be.
Yes I really believe that’s what they’ll do SJ44. I think (if you ask them) they’d all prefer team success over individual awards too.
Contending for Cy Youngs could happen down the road too but they don’t have to win those … right away, or ever … to justify keeping them in pinstripes now.
SoS,
I like your thinking.
Do you think the Tribe will shop him before the 2008 deadline?
CC is from a town about 30 miles from me. I watched him play basketball and baseball in high school more than once. He threw 95 at the age of 18 and could dunk in HS. A real athlete.
Whozat –
Michael Kay is a borderline moron. Don’t let him shake you up.
Ya, I think Sherman’s insistence that Hughes is pitching for Cashman’s job is ridiculous.
Neither of these guys will win 20 games and neither should be expected to pitch anywhere near as well as Santana.
As long as they contribute to winning as SJ44 said, that should be all that matters, playoffs or not.
Correct me if I’m wrong. But when looking at what Santana brings, don’t you have to look at as opposed to replacement level. How many games shift does he bring? At best maybe +5. No sure thing that he gets NYM to playoffs. He didn’t get the Twins there last year.
For the guys who keep bashing the Johnson,Brown,Wright,Vasques trades. At the time most people were all for them.
Johnson was dominating the n.l. and we were trying to trade for him at the all-star break.
Brown had an e.r.a. below 3 the year before and we rid ourselves of Weaver the choker.
Wright came cheap that offseason compared to others and had an e.r.a. in the low 3′s. We needed an extra arm.
Vasquez was a reaction to Schilling going to the Sox and was younger,high strikeout ratio and to some experts was going to be a better pitcher that year than schilling.
They all failed. Hind site being 20/20 we can all say they were bad trades now. What makes us think that Santana wont crash like Pedro. Some of you wanted us to get him in free agency as well. That hasnt turned out so well for the mets if you ask me.
Doubters like Michael Kay (and some bloggers) will doubt whenever Hughes or Kennedy gives up on crooked number. Even if that means the only runs they give up over 7 innings on a given night are from a 5-pitch walk before a 2-run HR.
The moment they give that up of course Michael Kay will increase his level of bloviating about Santana and continue with it all night long. Sure a walk before a HR hurts but if that’s all the runs they allow in a game I’d take that overall 7-inning result from a starter just about any day.
I think Michael Kay is pretty good. I doubt that there will be a Santana watch in the bronx, at least from Michael Kay.
“Michael Kay is a borderline moron. Don’t let him shake you up.”
He doesn’t shake me up. He does, however, annoy me.
SJ44
Let’s say the Yanks make the postseason and win the division, the Red Sox win the wildcard, and they face each other in the A.L.C.S., to begin at Yankee Stadium:
Games 1 and 5: Hughes vs. Schilling
Games 2 and 6: Pettitte vs. Matsuzaka
Games 3 and 7: Wang vs. Beckett
Game 4: Chamberlain vs. Wakefield, Lester, or Bucholz
Or you can have Joba in 1 and 5 and Hughes in 4. Oh wait how are you sitting Mussina veteran starter with tons of postseason experience for Games 1 and 5 or Game 4? Who’s making $11.5M? Hughes or Chamberlain better be as good as Mussina was before 2007 or as good as Mussina was at times in 2007 (which wasn’t much), or he’s not getting a start.
Sorry, advantage Boston in every game save Games 2 and 6.
Hughes and Chamberlain have ZERO postseason starts and bare minimum postseason experience. Beckett is better than Wang.
Now imagine this:
Games 1 and 5: Pettitte vs. Schilling
Games 2 and 6: Wang vs. Matsuzaka
Games 3 and 7: Santana vs. Beckett
Game 4: Hughes or Chamberlain vs. Wakefield, Bucholz, or Lester
That’s hands-down better postseason rotation than Hughes/ Pettitte/ Wang/ Chamberlain, don’t even try to argue against that. You could even have Pettitte and Wang switch places.
This is the New York Yankees, not the Tampa Bay Devil Rays.
It’s about winning it all, not 94 games with as many kids/ farm system players and the lowest payroll as possible and getting knocked out in the A.L.D.S. or A.L.C.S., or losing the World Series for a third straight time. It is unrealistic and unfair to expect Hughes and Chamberlain to help take the Yanks all the way in their first full years as starters which are also in the same year. It is entirely realistic and fair to expect the Yanks to go all the way with the best rotation in baseball led by Santana.
Put it to you this way: Yanks make the World Series with Hughes and Chamberlain and lose. The Yanks win it with Santana in place of one of them or whoever sucked in the W.S. if neither did. If the Yanks make the World Series with
Santana and lose, no sane person would say “If we only held onto Hughes”.
The hyping of Hughes is utterly ridiculous. ‘Say he goes to Minnesota. Hughes/ Bonzer/ Baker/ Slowey/ ??? OOOOH! We really made Minnesota a postseason contending team! Get real. Where’s he going if he does well for them? Nowhere.
Who cares what Michael Kay thinks? I think folks are way too caught up in what members of the media have to say about the Yankees.
If you are a Yankee fan, you realize that most, if not every member of the media in NY are not only not Yankee fans, some have such Anti-Yankee agendas, its actually comical to listen to them try to sound impartial.
For a guy around the team almost every day, there is no worse “authority” on the team than Michael Kay.
He is the guy who started the, “Cashman won’t trade the young guys because he is concerned about his legacy” nonsense that the Anti-Cashman contingent segment of the fan base now parrot as fact.
Let’s examine the reality of that statement for a moment.
When has Brian Cashman EVER put his own agenda ahead of the organizations? Certainly not when he had to be the fall guy for some of the worst deals (Randy Johnson, Jeff Weaver, Jason Giambi to name 3) in franchise history.
He took the crap from the Tampa Mafia and never whined about it in public.
The thrust of Kay’s theory? Cashman wouldn’t pull the trigger on the Johan Santana deal. Not doing that is the basis for Kay’s moronic theory about Cashman.
Its funny because if Cashman WAS concerned about his job, the easiest thing to do would be to do the Santana deal. That makes him “popular” with the masses in the media again. Even though that it probably wouldn’t have been in the long term best interests of the team.
If Kay was REALLY clued into the team, or REALLY understood how the Yankees operate, he would know that ownership, NOT the General Manager, decides whether or not to take on a deal such as Santana’s. Its NOT the GM’s call.
The General Manager makes his recommendation. However, he is NOT the final word on whether or not to do the deal. That falls on Hank and Hal Steinbrenner and NOBODY else in the organization.
That doesn’t stop Kay though. He comes up with this “theory” to get the phone lines cooking on his struggling talk show. In so doing, he tars the reputation of a guy he has known for 20 years.
All in the name of “show biz”.
Its why, with all due respect to Pete’s brethren in the media business, I could care less what they think of the Yankees. Its as meaningless to me as listening to opinions as to how the KC Royals will do this year.
I learned a long time ago, objectivity in reporting when it comes to the Yankees, is a dying art in the NY media.
For every Pete Abraham, who plays it straight, there are the Mike Lupica’s of the world, with their Anti-Yankee/Steinbrenner Agenda.
Its why the old saying that, “nobody roots for Goliath” is applicable when talking about the Yankees.
I think that if they start they year off slow then yes they would shop him. Its a catch 22 though. If they shop him then we would have to give away some of our chips. At the same time if we’re willing to trade come trade deadline. I would assume its because we are in the thick of things and the youngsters must be doing good. IMO i would hope he hits the market so we dont lose any players that will help now and in the near future.
Its amazing Chris how you have mapped out the entire season before a game is even played.
How ’bout we play the season and see how it plays out before we analyize paper matchups?
Where can I get a crystal ball like the one Chris has?
Clay,
Wal-Mart.
Clay,
Wal-Mart. I think they are on sale this week.
Chris – take the next flight to Vegas. With that kind of advance knowledge you can make millions. Can you help me out for Sunday??
SJ44,
I think this is a topic that both sides wont change their minds in. Almost like the Arod situation this offseason. We are all beating a dead horse here.
SOS 27,
Very true. Its why ST can’t come soon enough for me.
Willian Buckner,
Its easy. You just get your x-box out and play simulated games and whaala. You have your future winners.
Ya Chris,
Seriously, lay off the pipe.
Cashman didn’t hang on to the young guys for immediate results, he hung on to them for several years of promise.
Now, I won’t say that Hughes and Joba won’t have success this year, but last I recalled, the AL has plenty more teams to worry about than just the Red Sox, let the ALCS.
We don’t build our team to beat just the Red Sox.
let *alone* the ALCS.
For those that care about these sort of things according to Phil Hughes on his blog a number change is in the works so dont go out and buy those number 65 jerseys quite yet lol
PETE: Why isnt the blockquote working anymore? This sucks. It made me feel computer literate doing it. Get this fixed for my sake.
I just don’t see things as certainties…
Wang vs Beckett. On paper you’d give edge to JB.
Andy vs. Schill. I like Andy.
Hughes vs. Dice. No clear winner.
Chamberlain vs. Lester, Bucholtz, Wake. Chamberlain.
Their pitching staff isn’t that great. They’re not the 90′s Braves.
phil hughes just reported on his blog that his number is going to change
Off topic…sorry…Phil Hughes reporting on his blog that his number is going to change
SJ44
It’s amazing that you think it’s better to hold onto a kid with just 13 M.L.B. starts (Hughes) or a kid with 10 less M.L.B. starts than him (Kennedy) than to trade either for a two-time A.L. Cy Young Award winning veteran starter who’s also the best starting pitcher in baseball (Santana).
You want postseason unknown quantities in 3 A.L.C.S. starts
and Wang vs. Beckett twice, be my guest.
I would’ve taken Pettitte/ Wang/ Santana/ Mussina or Chamberlain (or Mussina, Chamberlain, or Hughes if the Yanks were able to get Santana with Kennedy, Melky, and Marquez).
If anyone’s bought a “crystal ball” at Wal-Mart, it’s you with your endless ridiculous ramblings about how trading Hughes or Kennedy will be the downfall/ ruin of the Yankees.
BLOCKQUOTE
For those that care about these sort of things according to Phil Hughes on his blog a number change is in the works so dont go out and buy those number 65 jerseys quite yet lol
BLOCKQUOTE
gayle,
Wont it be like having Jordan’s #45 at some point it will be a collectors item.
Phil’s new # will end in 5. I remember reading that’s his superstition.
5 retired
15 retired
25 Giambi
35, 45???
55 Matsui
Chris: Go back over the last few Pete-posts about the trade and see SJ44 explaining how his thought process changed over the last couple of months; as it is right now, you’re not arguing against the same reasoning
Sorry for the long post to follow, but I sort of understand where Chris is coming from.
If we didn’t have to trade Hughes (or Wang) in order to get Johan, our rotation looks much better today with him in it than without.
The thing I keep coming back to is the MLB innings caps placed on Hughes, IPK and Joba.
If they start the season in the rotation, those caps will quickly be reached and by late August/Sept.
We’ll be sitting our best guns on the bench (or in the pen) because of these caps watching Pettite, Wang and the most likely washed up Mussina trying to win us a post season spot.
Here’s my question, once Joba, Phil and IPK hit their caps, who is the rest of our rotation?
Karstens? Rasner? Igawa?
This is why you sense a lot of frustration from some fans who are looking at next season with a logical eye.
Here’s what we know about next season.
3 of our potential 6 starters are capped inning wise. Capped so low, I might add, that if they pitch from opening day they won’t be able to pitch in Sept. and beyond unless they are all moved to the pen.
Mussina, who was rightfully booted from the rotation last season because he was incredibly awful, is being relied upon to pitch a full season in the rotation.
That leaves us with Pettite and Wang who are being counted on tremendously to carry this team into the playoffs.
The rest of our rotation prospects are pitchers we’re not exactly enthralled with in Igawa, Karstens, Rasner.
The other young starters in the organization (Horne, Marquez, etc.) will most likely be at or near their innings caps for the season by the time Hughes, Joba and IPK are at their ceilings so they’ll be of little use in Sept.
And finally, we have the thinnest bullpen we’ve had in years on paper and that bullpen is going to be relied upon this season more than ever since we have 1, maybe 2 starters, who might throw 200 innings meaning the pen will be in most games by the 5th.
This is what we know going into the season.
Getting Johan wouldn’t have solved all the problems, but it would have added some durability, talent and wow factor to the rotation.
It also would have allowed us to comfortably slot Joba in the pen to keep his innings down.
I want to see the team win next year. I want to see the older players on the roster get one more taste (or in some cases, their first taste) of a championship.
This is how crazy what we are doing is. We’re heading into a season knowing that by Sept. our young pitchers will have reached their innings caps if they’ve pitched well earlier in the year.
If Joba, Hughes and IPK are awesome, that means we’ll be using them every 5th day and their innings left for the season will quickly evaporate.
It’s a completely illogical approach to winning next year.
It almost gets me thinking that they are okay with not winning next year.
And here’s the thing, say the Yankees want to go for it all and they see a pitcher at the trade deadline that can help them get there.
Will that pitcher be better than Johan? Probably not.
Will the other teams want the prospects we just hoarded instead of trading for Johan? Yes.
If we end up trading IPK or any of the young guys for some trade deadline starter, then none of this makes sense.
How Cashman has sold this plan to the owners is baffling to me.
I really think this is the first time the owners have actually embraced saving money instead of going for it.
35 Moose
45 The Warrior
CHRIS -
You are so right. Experience is everything in the World Series. I mean, look at the 2003 Marlins.
Chris,
Would you rather have Dice k starting a playoff game for you or Verlander of 06? One has a lot of experience in Japan. The other is young and has good stuff. I dont think anyone would have thought that Weaver would win the Cards a championship. I dont believe all this need experience in the playoffs stuff. I dont think Hughes did bad coming in for 3+ innings in the Cleveland series,Pettite has always done good in the playoffs,Wang was hurt last year. I would go to battle with our young guys(healthy) with our lineup vs. anyone. By the way. Schilling, Dice and Beckett didnt fair well against us last year.
William–
35 is already taken by Moose so dont see that happeneing unless he has a number this year and then changes it again highly unlikely.
45 – I would want nothing to do with that number based on who has had it the past 3 seasons
“William Buckner
January 31st, 2008 at 2:39 pm
I just don’t see things as certainties…
Wang vs Beckett. On paper you’d give edge to JB.
Andy vs. Schill. I like Andy.
Hughes vs. Dice. No clear winner.
Chamberlain vs. Lester, Bucholtz, Wake. Chamberlain.
Their pitching staff isn’t that great. They’re not the 90’s Braves.”
agreed!
While I admit to dreaming of Johan in pinstripes, taking pressure off the kids and especially in the playoffs, I’m thrilled to see the youth movement.
Kids give incredible FLEXIBILITY to Cashman. If someone doesn’t perform, you can try another kid. And if the solution doesn’t materialize, you still have $ for free agents. Total $ savings from keeping Melky + Big3 + another future starter (e.g., Horne and or Jackson) is huge.
But looking at the Yanks’ top prospects list, it sure looks like we have some RHPs to use as chips!
Matt (Brooklyn): The rumor is out there that Minnesota called the Yankees before accepting the Mets offer and said Melky, Kennedy, and a prospect would get the deal done. True? And if so, why not? Kennedy will never be a top 2 starter and Melky’s value is a little inflated right now, no?
SportsNation Keith Law: (1:17 PM ET ) I was told that that offer from the Twins was Melky, Kennedy, and some pitcher named Wang. I haven’t confirmed that with anyone in the Bronx, but if that’s true, I would agree that Cashman should have turned it down.
Chris,
Let’s say I go along with your nonsense. Please explain to me why Beckkett would be saved to throw game 3 and 7? The same goes for Santana if we had him. Wouldn’t you send out your best to pitch in Game 1? I hope you are assuming the Sox and Yankees go 4 games in the DS with Beckkett and Santana pitching games 1 and 4.
Your logic is baffling.
Someone must have told me to change it.
Becuase I asked him 2 months ago and he said he was keeping it. Although, maybe this means Carl is gone. 45 used to be Phil’s number.
**him*
gayle,
I agree with you. I would retire the number 45 by burning it. That number should never be seen or mentioned again in any Yankee discussions.
CubanC,
With Chris’s logic we might have won 4 straight World Series. You put your best guy to start the series so that you have a chance to bring him in a possible 3 times.(game 7 on short rest)
gayle, I’ve never seen the #45 worn on the field.
Great non-deal by cashman. Wouldnt you all take some satisfaction with winning the world series in the next few years WITHOUT the highest payroll in the league? Thats what cashman is providing us by building a team that relies on kids with rookie contracts. we would shed the title of “Evil Empire,” as well as dominate the very people who called us that in the first place
65 was cool. I honestly think if Hughes wants a good number ending in 5 he should break the number barrier: 125.
SoS,
I think Chris said that he would use Beckkett/Santana in Games 3 & 7. Not in 1, 4, and possibly 7 as you (and I) were suggesting. It makes no sense to hold those guys from pitching the first game.
Maybe I missed some sarcasm in your comment.
G.Love,
I keep hearing that Joba is going to start in the pen. So he can keep his innings cap down. If thats the case then we have solved one problem. Then you use Mussina to give Hughes and Kennedy some rest. Mostly Hughes being that Kennedy has a higher cap. Maybe rotating all 3 in 2 spots. Thats assuming none of them have some type of nagging injury that keeps them out for a few weeks. Which if any of them get hurt early (like Hughes last year)it might keep them fresh for the playoff run. Either way I can see all this resolving itself out. Horne also helping out mid season.
“65 was cool. I honestly think if Hughes wants a good number ending in 5 he should break the number barrier: 125.”
As long as they’re going over the 3 digit barrier, 555!
“We’re ready for spring training.”
Y’know, Pete, you and your regular commenters are making this winter wait the easiest for which I have a mental record.
Thanks.
CubanC,
I was trying to point out the D-backs series,where they threw out Johnson and Schilling seemed like everyday. It they followed his advice. Then we would have won the Series by beating their crappy starters instead.
We are on the same page.
The question below was on Keith Law’s chat today. Seeems to me that Bob Klapish, whose usually pretty good, didn’t get all the facts before he wrote his story. Another example of poor journalism. Now get off cashman’s back people.
Matt (Brooklyn): The rumor is out there that Minnesota called the Yankees before accepting the Mets offer and said Melky, Kennedy, and a prospect would get the deal done. True? And if so, why not? Kennedy will never be a top 2 starter and Melky’s value is a little inflated right now, no?
Keith Law: (1:17 PM ET ) I was told that that offer from the Twins was Melky, Kennedy, and some pitcher named Wang. I haven’t confirmed that with anyone in the Bronx, but if that’s true, I would agree that Cashman should have turned it down.
Question for all.
For the last few years we’ve had a player come in to spring training in much better shape than the year before. Last year Arod. The year before Giambi(i believe). Prior to that Matsui bulked up adding 20 pounds of muscle.
Who comes in this year as the most physically improved from last year?
My pick is JETER.
Can you imagine the embarrassment to their franchise if the Mets can’t get this deal done? Oh wait, they had that already last September.
Seriously, that is why eventually they will have to give in to Santana’s demands. They were a joke when they folded at the end of last year and if they fail at this, Minaya better get his resume updated.
Barry Zito set the high water mark for lefthanders and with his $126M deal and at a year older than Santana, is coming off an 11-12 – .453 ERA year.
Santana, even with a 15-13 – .333 year with the Twins will certainly exceed Zito money.
So, plump as he may be, how is C.C. Sabathia supposed to feel being a year younger than Santana and coming off a 19-7 – .321 and Cy Young Award for hardware ? He’s a free agent after 2008 and all he needs to do is put up similar numbers and he sets the new standard.
Nothing personal, Pete, but the new pic makes you look like the Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer
I also can’t wait for spring training. I think I will do a drive by this weekend and check out the new addition to Legend’s Field.
S.o.S.
That’s not a prediction. We’ve seen pix of Jeter this off-season. He’s already new and definitely improved. (there’s imaginary emphasis on the improved-any word on formatting options?)
Any word on Giambi? This is an important year for him. I’d think it’d be paramount for him to be in shape and get off to a good start. Am I the only one thinking he won’t be in the Bronx in ’09?
did Keith Law just say some pitcher named Wang ?
SoS: Moose
My crystal ball says that he’ll get 20 wins, a perfect game, and a WS ring to cap off his career
AND, I picked up my crystal ball from…the local Super Stop & Shop
Brandon,
I know Keith Law was being sarcastic, but if it’s true then what was that convo like?
Smith: Calling to see if we can get a last offer.
Cashman: What are you thinking about?
Smith: Well, since Hughes is no longer an option, we’ll start with Kennedy, Melky, a prospect, and a throw-in.
Cashman: Who’re thinking?
Smith: Uh, I don’t know. Hey! What about that guy Wang? He’ll struggle a bit on the carpet, but we really want to make this work.
Cashman: (silence)
Smith: You, know, Cash, he won’t last long in this league with those K numbers. He’s a fluke…
Cashman: (dial tone)
sos: igawa!
Santana’s agent should just negotiate a raise in 2008 and then hit the free agent market next year. The Yankees would open up the checkbook for him then. If not, CC should be out there too.
Also this season is make or break for the kids. If all 3 establish themselves then Cash will know that he can trade Horne, Betances, Brackman or Sanchez to fill a need. If the big three can’t perform, they will go hard after a good pitcher down the stretch after a team falls out.
“Any word on Giambi? This is an important year for him. I’d think it’d be paramount for him to be in shape and get off to a good start.”
he said last year (like many injury-prone guys do) that he was in the best shape of his life going into spring. And he might have been very strong…that doesn’t mean his joints and tendons will hold up.
Still…he needs to play as much 1B as possible, I think.
“Also this season is make or break for the kids.”
No it’s not. No pitcher’s age 22 or 23 year is make-or-break.
Mel, I think you about got the conversation down perfectly.
I have to wonder if Smith is playing with a full deck.
Just saw on ESPN that Morgan Ensberg was signed to a 1 yr. deal….
Seems like a low risk pick-up.
whozat,
But, they stood in the way of acquiring Santana. They have to beat him in every statistical category. They need to be the Second Coming. BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.
Morgan Ensberg just signed with us.Great another infielder.Just what we need.No pitching.How many 1st basemen do we need.
idk if it was posted yet, but the Yankees just signed Morgan Ensberg, according to MLB Trade Rumors… he’ll be another option for 1B out of camp.
Yes it is also being reported on MLBTRADERUMORS.com that the Yanks have signed Morgan Ensberg……Unless he returns to his old form don’t see much of the need in this?
Very good bench move for the Yanks. Hopefully it’s a minor league pact, and hopefully the bench will eventually become much greater with him as a part of it.
mel,
If we’re going to go with someone who we havnt seen yet. Then i would go with Bettimet. I think with the pressure he got from Cash last year. Plus knowing he could be our first baseman,if in shape. He will come in trimmed. Unless, as iv stated before,he did the 3 day Damon diet.
Bullpen would go to BRITTON.
“Unless he returns to his old form don’t see much of the need in this?”
Because if he does, then it’s a cheap, good, right-handed corner infield bat. If he doesn’t…I bet they can cut him loose before the season and it costs them very little.
It should be a minor league deal, right? I don’t recall there being room on the major league roster
Also, Luis Gonzalez got 1 year/2 million from the Marlins
Hey Pete
That’s not Gillette Stadium in tha background is it? ‘Cause this is a New York baseball bl…..
JUST KIDDING!!
A couple of days ago everyone was a little testy about the Patriots stuff…a sad attempt at humor.
“Santana’s agent should just negotiate a raise in 2008 and then hit the free agent market next year. The Yankees would open up the checkbook for him then. If not, CC should be out there too. ” -Jeff NJ
I don’t think the Mets would accept trading 4 of their top 8 prospects for a one year rental.
“Also this season is make or break for the kids. ” _Jeff NJ
Uhhh NO it is not. Its a year to start establishing themselves. If you expect Joba/Hughes to go 18-2 right out of the gate I want what your on. There is more pressure on the two of them to do well already have minor big league experiences. Kennedy needs to get his feet wet and start to adjust to major leaguers. And the 3 of them need to learn as much as they can from the rest of the team (espicially veteran pitchers like Moose and Pettitte)
Old Goat,
Who knows? He may have the last laugh. The Twins are pretty good at evaluating talent. Oh, who am I kidding? No Hughes, no Kennedy, no Lester, no Elsbury, no Lowrey. There just wasn’t much to choose from in the Mets farm.
He definitely should’ve pulled Santana off the market.
Mel that convo script was hilarious
and yay to getting a cheapy in Ensberg
YankeeDudel,
I think our fast and crazy blog posts makes Pete want to drop his cell phone and head for the hills.
Santana will go 17-10 for the Mets in ’08. That’s a lotta bean for a 7 game swing.
SAntana wins 20 games for sure.Thats if the Mets are healthy.
how is ensburg’s defense?
When I said it was make or break for the kids, I didn’t mean that individually they all need to have outstanding seasons. What I mean is that if they all are mediocre to bad, then Hank will not be able to trust the youth plan in a larger sense. It will be back to veterans. I don’t invision that though, I think all 3 will have solid years and with our offense, they should each get a fair amount of wins.
What is it about great pitchers getting very little run support? Santana, Clemens, Pettitte.
Maybe a combination of things. Offense relaxes a bit. Opposing pitcher steps up their game to compete. Hmmm.
Headline From ESPN
Ensberg agrees to deal, joins candidates for Yankees’ first base job
Can someone explain the Ensberg thing to me as I am somewhat confused. he has primarily been a 3rd baseman his career might be competeing more against Betemit then for 1st base where we already have such a backlogof unproven 1st baseman. if we are taking flyers on 1st baseman why not take another one on Minky. At least we know what he brings to the table, he can fit in with New York and this team and has excellent defense.
Jeff NJ,
I hope I didn’t offend you with the BLAH BLAH BLAH. It was really a reaction to the multiple comments about fans turning on Hughes. I think that’s hogwash (pardon my language) because Hughes is a Yankee. He’s already fought through adversity and shown a lot of character. People had convinced themselves the world wouldn’t end if we didn’t get Santana, primarily because Hughes would be a great consolation prize.
“how is ensburg’s defense?”
- Lousy.
Clay,
Are you keeping count? That makes, what, 9 candidates?
Why pick up Ensburg? Minky wasn’t a bad enough 1bman?
BREAKING NEWS
The Yankees just signed Moragn Ensberg to join the Yankees platoon. I like this, it’s extremely low risk also.
He’s better than Betemit, Lane, and Duncan. Maybe him and Giambi will switch on and off.
He’s had 2 bad season’s avg wise recently but 3 great ones before that.
I’m happy about this. It can’t hurt the least bit either
it amazes me the amount of people that don’t read a single comment, but come here to post “breaking news!!!111!!!” that’s been posted numerous times already. all it’s really doing is cluttering things up…
okay, i’ll stop whining now.
Terms of the contract weren’t immediately available. Ensberg signed a minor-league deal, with an invitation to major league camp. The Yankees’ 40-man roster is currently full, but three spots are expected to open when Carl Pavano, Humberto Sanchez and Andrew Brackman are transferred to the 60-day disabled list in March.
Big thanks to Peter for adding my site to the links. I won’t say which one, because promoting it wouldn’t be cool, but it’s nice to be included here.
“Why pick up Ensburg? Minky wasn’t a bad enough 1bman?”
You’re comparing a right-handed mediocre-defending 3B that has had good seasons with the bat as recently as two years ago to a left-handed defensive whiz 1B whose bat has been anemic for years.
Do you see how little sense that makes?
Basically, if Shelley turns out to be what everyone thought he was for years (a guy with BIIIG holes in his swing), and Ensberg’s shoulder is ok and he can hit again…we just got a cheap upgrade of the right-handed side of the 1B platoon.
Breaking news!!!
ENSBERG A YANK!!
Had to do that to you saucy. I feel your frustration. If some of us have to read some of the crappy posts here. Everybody should.
Ensberg?
What the hell?!?
http://thebaseballoutsider.blo.....sberg.html
Minor league deal Jay, minor league deal
It’s not the end of the Yankee-verse
lol sos. it really wasn’t that bad today, but i just thought i’d throw that out there… we all know this happens frequently.
3 Yanks in Keith Law’s Top 25 Prospects in Baseball.
#3 Joba
You may have heard of this fellow. Best known to big league fans as a dominant setup guy, Chamberlain is best cast as a four-pitch starter who projects as a true No. 1 starter. He has a four-pitch repertoire where all pitches project as average or better: a plus 94-98 mph four-seamer, a toxic 83-87 mph slider with good tilt and variable break, an 11/5 curveball with good depth, and a straight 81-84 mph changeup with good arm speed. The fastball and slider are already big league out pitches and in relief, he can probably get away without the other two pitches. Chamberlain has a great pitcher’s build with broad shoulders and the height to get good downhill plane on his pitches, and his arm is quick. He’s battled his weight in the past, leading to knee trouble, and he had bicep tendinitis in college that allowed him to fall to the Yankees in the supplemental round.
#21 Jose Tabata
Tabata was in the top 10 last year, but a nagging hamate injury ended his 2007 season early, requiring surgery in August. Tabata has a quick bat and great hand-eye coordination, and he squares up balls as well as anyone on this list. He also has good pitch recognition, although that can manifest itself in working the count to get to a fastball he can drive. His raw power hasn’t shown up in games, which could be explained by the hamate injury; hand and wrist injuries sap power, and full recovery from a broken hamate bone can take up to a year. Tabata can play center but has been bumped to right field by fellow Yankee prospect Austin Jackson (No. 24), and Tabata should be plus there with an above-average arm. He’d rank higher if the hamate problem was fully behind him, but until that becomes clear, there’s still some risk here.
#24 Austin Jackson
ackson is my favorite kind of hitting prospect — the athlete with a clue. Jackson was a top basketball prospect in high school, but the Yankees flexed their financial muscles and gave him first-round money in the eighth round, a move that looks brilliant in hindsight because of how advanced Jackson is for a multi-sport prospect. Jackson has good speed, a solid-average arm in center and good instincts on fly balls, but still has some work to do at the plate. His setup is excellent and his path to the ball is short, but he needs to continue working on keeping his weight back to get more power from the contact he makes, and he’s too eager to chase the ball up. He’s a potential middle-of-the-order bat because of his power and improving plate discipline.
At this rate, I could go try out for the first base job. This is just ridiculous. They should have kept Minky.
sos and saucy
Sorry i just copy and pasted what I said on another blog. I read the three posts above it and didn’t want to press delete a bunch of times and re-arrange things, lazy sorry
But calm down lol don’t jump to conclusions to quickly.. sheesh.
Don’t be so quick to judge on one little mistake..
Treads,
Sorry. Only retreads need apply.
GOODNESS GRACIOUS!!He signed! No not Santana. Mr. Morgan Ensberg.
Serously though. I think it is a win win pick up. If he reverts back to his old form. We got a steal. If not it wont cost us 25 million to dump him.
Two other Yanks in Law’s Top 100:
#45 Ian Kennedy
Kennedy’s stuff alone would put him in the lower reaches of this list. He is here because he has superb command of average or fringe-average stuff, so superb that he is going to succeed in the majors where many guys with superior stuff will fail. He works with a fringe-average fastball that touches 90 mph on occasion but mostly falls in the 87-88 mph range, and he commands it to all four edges of the zone. His best secondary pitch is his changeup, slightly above average with some tailing action, but it works extremely well because he keeps his arm speed consistent. His curve is solidly average as well. Kennedy repeats his delivery as well as any prospect on this list, commands all of his pitches and has a great feel for pitching. With plus stuff, he would be in the top 10 overall, but with his stuff, he will have to settle for an upside as a borderline No. 3 starter or a great No. 4 starter.
#100 Andrew Brackman
Brackman is out for 2008 after elbow surgery, but he was one of the best amateur prospects in the country heading into last spring. He gets great downhill plane on a 91-97 mph fastball and shows signs of a plus breaking ball, with clean mechanics for someone so tall. His major league contract works against him.
“This is just ridiculous.”
Why? They’re not going to go trade for a high-profile starter while Giambi is still on the books. The best bet for good production is a platoon of some kind. Ensberg takes walks and can hit for power, if his shoulder’s good. It’s a low risk signing, and provides another option in the case that Duncan turns out not to be the real thing.
I’m just curious as to where all these guys are going to get reps at 1B during spring training. I guess many of them will get at bats at other positions.
What’s up with the Yankees? They keep adding more and more players to try out at first base. Is Shelley going to get sent down? How good does Shelley (or how bad not) to be certain he gets the job?
Rodg,
Thanks for the blurbs. That’s some pretty heady words coming from Law. #45 sounds like Mussina to a “T”. Brackman’s “Mr. Irrelevant”. Cool. A guy who’s still recovering form surgery made the list.
I’m gonna check out #1-2 and see where this Humber fellow is…
“Is Shelley going to get sent down? How good does Shelley (or how bad not) to be certain he gets the job?”
He probably has to be best right-handed 1B in camp. Given that he VASTLY outperformed his track record last season, do you really think it’s a good bet to assume that he’ll continue to perform near that level?
If he continues to take offspeed and outside pitches the other way, show good plate discipline, and drive “his pitch” when he gets it, then I suspect he’ll be fine.
CorShep, no problem. you at least gave an opinion along with it…
Corshep,
No worries. Your more than welcomed here. If they take my crap in here, than you dont need to be gun shy. Keep the info coming.
“#45 sounds like Mussina to a “Tâ€.”
It sounds kinda like Moose circa a few years ago, but he had much better stuff than Ian back when he was a young’un.
Sounds like Ian can learn from the cranky old man, though. Someone duct-tape them together, and then glue Hughes and Joba to Pettitte or Mo. That’ll be the best thing for them.
whozat,
Thanks a lot. Now I can’t get Matt Damon & Greg Kinnear out of my head. I absolutely hated that movie!
Like three legged races, we could tape a lefty & right together and have them pitch. Can you imagine Igawa flying around like a rag doll on Joba’s follow through? Who’s the other lefty? Henn? I think that Kennedy would collapse under his weight. Pettitte & Clemens? Oh wait, they’re not BFF anymore.
Hey all, I just want to share a funny video I made.
To combat Derek Jeter’s successful TV ad campaign for the Ford Edge, A-Rod decides to partner with Chevrolet and the Equinox.
All scenarios are fictional and are intended for humorous purposes only*
http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?vid=1885620
Heres a thought. Why not trade Ensberg,Duncan,Giambi,Betimet for Texierra? We’ll even sign Mienkkjlkjhfkjich and include him in the deal as well.
Can this signing be linked to Duncans health issues last month? Does anyone know what that ended up being?
I agree whozat, Mussina had much better pure stuff when he was younger. Mussina has a good chance right now of going down as one of the most underatted pitchers of the last 10-15 years because of his last few years in NY. People forget how dominate he was in his heyday.
Just for everyone’s reference….
#1 was Evan Longoria
#2 was Jay Bruce
#4 = Laptop Thief (aka Clay Bucholz)
rodg12,
One can argue that Mussina was the best A.L. pitcher in the 90′s.Take away Pedro due to a stint in the N.L. and Clemens had a couple of non-Clemens years. Am i forgetting someone?
~~The blogroll also changed~~~
Pete – FYI, some of your links lead to sites that are gone or hardly updated.
SoS-
Randy Johnson.
Can someone please tell me how I can access my IGNOR LIST?
Is there anyone else here disgusted by a select few posters? Who are making it very hard to read this blog?
PLEASE! Tell he mow to get tp my Ignor List.
I’m happy that the Yankees didn’t cave in to the demands of the Twins. They won’t be sorry for the decision.
I’m Alfred E. Neuman and I approve this message …
SoS-
Greg Maddux
Mariano Rivera
Probably gotta throw Randy Johnson in that discussion S.o.S. He was in the AL till 1998, I believe. But I don’t see anyway Mussina’s not in the top 5 AL pitchers during the 90s (and that’s including Pedro and Clemens).
Oops! Just realized you were talking AL Starters only.
Pedro was in the AL in 98 & 99 though. Mussina was pretty darn good especially in a hitters park.
Just wanted to re-emphasize for everyone’s benefit that you cannot just evaluate the Santana trade in the context of next year, but over the life of Santana’s entire contract.
Yes, Santana would make the Yankees a better team next year, at the expense of reduced organizational depth and reduced financial flexibility moving forward. You also need to reconcile your organizational philosophy, or long-term plan, and see how acquiring Santana fits into it.
It’s not so easy as, “Does Santana give us a better chance to win next year? He does? Great, let’s get him at all costs!”
And, as has been beaten to death, don’t believe everything you hear about the eleventh hour trade negotiations. The Twins might have asked for Kennedy, Cabrera, and a Jackson/Tabata/Montero/Betances/Heredia, or Kennedy, Cabrera, and Wang, or they might never have backed off on their Hughes demand at all. We just don’t know, and until someone in the Yankee organization steps forward and says, “This is the final offer Smith requested, and we rejected it” (which is very, very unlikely), then we probably never will.
By the way, for everyone who doubts the ability for the Yankees to do well simply because they will be relying on three rookies in the rotation for at least a good chunk of the year: how did those young Marlins starters of 2003 do? I hear one of them is a decent right-handed pitcher on the Red Sox. Something like Josh…Beckett?
Johnson in the 90′s 123 wins 3.82 e.r.a.
Mussina 136 wins 3.47 e.r.a.
Clemens 152 wins 3.14
Maddux had 176 Wins & an ERA of around 2.50 in the 90′s, that is sick.
Hey Pete!
I was just admiring your new look when I was struck with an epiphany; I read your site EVERY DAY! It’s my first (and often only, when time is tight) stop for all things Yankee.
I think back 10 years when I had to dig through local papers and monthly sports mags to get even a sniff of MLB news. Canadian sports stations have improved MLB coverage over the years, but it’s blogs like yours that make it fun to be a Yankee fan ALL YEAR LONG.
Much appreciated Peter!
Just found a BP article ranking the top pitchers of the 90s based on Support-Neutral Wins Above Replacement. Here they are:
SNW SNL SNPct SNWAR
1. Greg Maddux 172.8 79.6 .685 65.5
2. Roger Clemens 158.9 78.1 .670 58.1
3. Randy Johnson 141.3 79.3 .641 47.6
4. Tom Glavine 148.2 93.0 .615 45.7
5. Kevin Appier 130.2 73.7 .639 43.6
6. David Cone 133.6 81.9 .620 42.0
7. Kevin Brown 140.9 96.6 .593 40.0
8. Mike Mussina 121.6 70.5 .633 40.0
9. John Smoltz 137.0 94.8 .591 38.5
10. Chuck Finley 134.7 102.2 .569 34.0
11. Pedro Martinez 90.7 45.1 .668 33.0
12. Curt Schilling 105.8 69.6 .603 31.2
13. Andy Benes 123.7 105.5 .540 26.3
14. David Wells 113.5 92.1 .552 26.1
15. Jimmy Key 94.3 66.3 .587 26.1
16. Dennis Martinez 93.0 66.3 .584 25.3
17. Jose Rijo 75.2 43.3 .634 24.8
18. Jack McDowell 98.8 75.3 .567 24.8
19. Alex Fernandez 104.1 82.7 .557 24.7
20. Bret Saberhagen 82.0 53.7 .604 24.3
Pedro was 11 cuz he wasn’t a starter till 1994.
This talk about Santana reminds me alot of Beltron. People were pissed about losing out on him just because of the years and money.
His numbers since being a Met in a 3 year avg.
272 avg.
30 homeruns
102 r.b.i.’s
Was he worth the long term BIG BUCKS deal? IMO no. Matsui has better numbers.
Buddy,
I think the rule of thumb is to add 3/4 of a run for AL. An average of 3.25 over a decade would still be sick, tho.
9 of those guys were Yankees at some point. Some at right point, some at the wrong.
I think the concern here for the Yankees going with 3 rookie starters has less to do with their ability and more to do with the inning limitations placed on them.
The Yankees are going to be conservative about the number of innings Hughes, Joba and Kennedy pitch. When you couple that with a very questionable bullpen, there certainly is reason to be concerned.
I find it interesting that some folks on this blog feel the need to put down opinions as is if the poster was “looking through a crystal ball”. The same folks will put people down for voicing an opinion after the fact. Personally, I have more respect for a forward opinion than I do Monday morning quarterbacking.
mel-
I think Maddux in his prime would have done really well in the AL ERA wise, would have been interesting if had signed with the Yanks.
Morgan Ensberg has an OPS of .831 against left handed pitchers over the past three years.
That’s why he was signed. Signing him to a minor league deal was a very good move.
The Yankees offense has a ton of firepower but its very imbalanced – way too left handed.
If Shelley can’t get the job done then Ensberg could be a nice right handed option at first platooning at first with Betemit (who can’t from the right hand side of the plate at all).
This is exactly the type of low risk, organizational move to build depth that can pay dividends later on.
Good stuff rodg.
Buddy,
Yes Maddox numbers were sick. At one time a couple years back. When Maddox hit free agency, espn had Maddox signs with the Yankees on the bottom of the screen. I wonder how he would have done if this info ended up being true and he did become a Yankee? I guess we’ll never know.
Now that the Santana derby is over, will the Yanks look to make any other trades before the season begins? I have no idea. I can’t recall such an “inactive” off-season for the Yanks at any time in the past.
A second LH starter would be great. And a good LH reliever might be necessary.
If I were Cashman, I’d offer Kennedy/Igawa/Gardner/Laird to Pittsburgh for Marte/Gorzellany and see if they’d bite.
I like the Ensberg signing. ‘Course, if he makes the team, there’s not going to be a place for either Shelly Duncan or Wilson Betemit. And what if Eric Duncan has a spectacular ST? (just kidding, there….we’d be more likely to see snow in Miami)
Re: Ensberg:
“He’s had 2 bad season’s avg wise recently but 3 great ones before that.”
Uh, steroids anyone?
Randy Johnson will need to rebound completely fron his back ailments THIS year or forget about being a 300-game winner for his career. Time is not on his side.
Ensberg is primarily a third baseman, can’t imagine he would get more than 20 innings at 3B though, should he make the team.
Good (and short) article on Hughes’ relief that the Santana saga is over.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html
mickey’s monkey,
Dont count Duncan out quite yet. He had back problems and hes still young. I think he will make a strong comeback this year.
murphydog,
I thought the samething about Ensburg.
Evening all. Just heard about Ensberg. Took me forever to remember who the guy is. Long day.
From the Super Bowl chat:
Johan Santana : Am I finally going to win a ring?
Skip Bayless: (5:44 PM ET ) You’re 1-4 in the postseason with an ERA around 4. You were lousy (by your standards) last season, when you lost some velocity (and maybe some heart while stuck in Minnesota) and you allowed the most homers in the AL. Now you’ve joined a mentally weak team that suffered the biggest collapse in baseball history.
So I have my doubts, Mr. Santana.
By trading Santana, the Twins just saved a bunch of money by switching over to Geico.
Ensberg seems to alternate between good and bad seasons but last season I remember he started off pretty well and kept getting very clutch hits.
Hughes wore #50 in Trenton one yr….so I wouldnt rule that # out.I know I heard he likes a #5 in his jersey number,I not so sure it has to end in a 5 though.Otherwise he stays at #65 until next season (25).
LETS GO G-MEN!!!!!
Hughes, Joba,Karstens, Jeter and Posada all worked out in Tampa today. We’re inching closer to talking on the field baseball,not speculation or steroids. It can’t come soon enough!
this is going to be a great season, i cant wait!
giants 34 OT
pats 31
My entirely optimistic and not statistical reasoning why the giants will win the Super Bowl
Mel, guess y’all forget the “biggest collapse in baseball history” didn’t occur in the regular season. The mentally weak team that choked bigger than any team ever in ’04 hasn’t won anything this millennium. Enjoy.
George King of the Post is the prototypical naysayer.
The Morgan Ensburg signing is one of those “Ho-Hum” transactions that is of little risk and with good upside.
There’s a dearth of position players at the AAA level so the signings of Ensberg, Jason Lane, Nick Green, and others makes sense. Maybe Cashman strikes gold with Morgan, maybe he fills out the SWB Roster for 2008.
Hi, everyone. Heard the news about Morgan Ensberg, and it sounds like a pretty good signing. If he is right, he will bring some much needed right-handed pop. If he hits like he has recently, though, he will probably be cut before the end of Spring Training. They would give him one of those red tags like the ones from the movie Major League.
Mentally Weak Post,
Nah, you’re wrong. The Yankee’s choke in 2004 was a quick, 4 game, wham bam thank you maam choke magnified because it was in the playoffs.
Now, the king of all chokes was back in ’78 when the Red Sox had a 14 game lead in July and blew it all in slow, torturous, agonizing fashion, culminating in the Boston massacre, fell behind in the standings, but rallied at season’s end and tied the Yanks on the last day of the season only to blow a lead in the playoff game and lose, as the Yankees went on to make it back to back World Series wins. Ahhhh. Sweet memories.
“Uh, steroids anyone?”
No, he apparently whanged his shoulder really badly at some point late in 06, and last season he just wasn’t the same. Either he’s fully recovered from it now and will be a bargain signing, or he’ll never be the same again and they cut him before the season starts. Either way, they don’t lose anything.
What’s really interesting is that, in 06, he had a poor average of .235…but had an OBP of .396. He walked more than once per every four plate appearances. And slugged pretty well too.
Didn’t Pettitte fix his shoulder with HGH oh wait that ws his elbow.
Hey Upstate and others wondering about a good Twins fan take on the Santana deal:
http://www.aarongleeman.com
Quite an analysis of the deal & 70+ comments. More of a home for SABR types than diehard fans, but hey Johan’s coming from Minnesota. Been there. Uff da.
Only slightly related comment: What’s the over/under on Cashman being the next GM of the Mets?
I think owners all around baseball really need to come down on these outrageous demands by players to get paid like that . So basically Mr. Santana is asking $25 million for every year . Christ , who do you think you are . I mean you are pitcher not some big businessman changing the lives of people around the world .
If owners have all this money due to baseball being a great business , may be they should think of giving away to a charity in Africa and Asia where this money could be really used .
Its becoming really crazy when I read these baseball players making this outrageous money . I mean its a capitalistic system , but still , c’mon .
Frankly I hope Mets give him $150 Mil for 6 years and Santana starts sucking the very first season .
May be that would teach owners some lesson .
Mchating, we get it already! You hate Andy, do you have to say it in every single post! You are a very bitter person.
They are happy with getting a crap package, because they didn’t want him to go to NY or Boston.
I could understand if they didn’t want him to go to their division. But they really are stupid!
Drive 4-5,
You’re a voice of reason on here. Sometimes I feel like some of the posters in here don’t care as much about next season as they do 3 seasons from now.
That’s all well and good, but a lot can happen between next season and 3 seasons from now and we’ve seen tons of prospects not make it, get injured, etc.
I’m more concerned about next season since I’m still emotionally invested in the current Yankee team and players like Jeter, Posada, Arod, Mo, Pettite who have worked their tails off for this team and deserve the best chance to win in the last few seasons of their careers.
I’m not as puppy dog about the young kids (especially the ones who haven’t even made it to the majors yet) since they haven’t earned their stripes yet and could flame out.
I’m one of those fans where the kids have to earn it to get me all gooey.
I know this is contrary to what a lot of people post on here and I appreciate everyone’s opinions and thoughts that the young kids are going to lead us to the promised land. I hope you’re right. I’ll be cheering them on.
That said, I would have went after Johan a little more optimistically than Cashman who appeared to not want the pitcher and who acted like a kid whose parents told clean up his room and give his toys away.
I’ve never seen a GM be so openly petulant and I think him and Theo being so chummy chummy is having a negative effect.
Either that or he isn’t enamored with Hank asserting himself. Either way, he’s showing us a side of him that is a bit disturbing to me.
As for Ensberg, the stats dropoff would suggest he was a juicer. We’ll see what he has left.
I would hate to Shelley get the short end if he’s healthy in camp since I would love to see that crazy eyes kook on a regular basis.
Sos27…
You brought up that each Spring Training of late has brought one player who surprised us with his conditioning: Matsui, Giambi, then A-Rod.
My guess for this year is Farnsworth. Here me out. The man knows he can perform, so he has a lot to prove. He has a chip on his shoulder, and he wants to put all the nay-sayers in their place.
If that turns out to be the case, and Krazy Kyle can be the bona fide Bridge to Mo, we’re set.
Mark Alan :
It would be a plus if you’re right with Farnsworth but also important will be the conditioning of Damon and Betemit.
Damon has no excuse. He lives less than an hour from Legends Field.
Bruney and Britton are others.
Ensberg can’t hurt.
Just like ARod…this isn’t over.
50-50 the deal does not get done and Jo-baby goes back to the Twins. Wilpon isn’t paying $150 million x 6.
Memo to the Twinkies: take the picks.
I have a gut feeling the Mets will blow this, and Johan Santana remains a Twin.
“Bruney and Britton are others.”
Their conditioning really doesn’t make much of a difference. I’m much more concerned about Bruney’s control, and whether Britton gets a shot to actually contribute this season.
Omar wouldn’t have made the trade unless he had the approval of Fred. Now they’re just dickering over the final dollar figure, but Fred had to have signed off on this.
What time is the deadline to get the deal done?
5pm Friday, they are pretty close though.
tick tick tick. The longer this goes, the more I don’t think it will get done.
Santana could get cold feet on this deal.
Santana has the Mets by the balls. I am sure that if the situation was different Santana would have been more than happy with a 6 years 135M deal.
His agents know how the Mets are dealing from weakness and can’t walk away. Nice to be an agent in that situation.
I only pray that deal falls apart.
The way Mets management is structured according to Bill Madden’s article last year, they cannot possibly be mentally strong. Willie Randolph is capable of doing the job, but when Jeff Wilpon found out that was so, he determined to foil him. Jeff doesn’t want Willie to succeed. And, Minaya hired an assistant who’s in the clubhouse all the time to “help” which undercuts Willie’s authority.
How are the two sides 20 million apart, which is still a lot of money, when the Mets offer is 142.25 million and Santana wants 170 million? Is this the new math or isn’t it more like 28 million apart?
If you are the Mets don’t you have to start asking yourself if Santana really wants to go there? While I understand having a high starting price, especially when in a power position like this, if you really want to go somewhere it seems you would be more likely to find a meeting ground closer than they are reported to be.
It could be that Santana isn’t all that hot on going to the Mets but if they give up the additional 28 million, that can go a long way toward getting over not being on the team that you really want to play for. You would think though, that if Santana didn’t really want to go somewhere he would have told that to the Twins.
To:
Jim in CT
Thank you for:
http://www.aarongleeman.com/
Good read !
Even with the text size increase, I find this site now very difficult to read. The black and blue on grey strains the eyes. Am I alone in this? Maybe it’s my computer?
Who loves ya dog ?