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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News

The details on the Santana deal

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Feb 01, 2008 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

The Mets gave Johan Santana a total package of seven years and $150.75 million. That’s an average annual value of $21.5 million.

Santana was signed for $13.25 million this season. He will receive a $7 million signing bonus then a six-year guaranteed extension worth $137.5 million. No word yet on the year-by-year breakdown. But it’s the average annual value that matters.

The deal shatters the previous benchmarks for pitchers.

Barry Zito received seven years and $126 million from the Giants while Carlos Zambrano has an average annual value of $18.3 million in his deal with the Cubs.

Prospects aside, this contract why the Yankees didn’t sign him. The Yankees are over the luxury tax limit, so Santana would have cost them a $20.25 million in 2008 plus a 40-percent penalty. He’s good. But is he worth $28 million a year?





189 Responses to “The details on the Santana deal”

  1. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Save the Three Musketeers! February 1st, 2008 at 8:06 pm

    …now if Santana pulls a Zito, we really will have to close the bridges.

  2. Jennifer - Save Phil Hughes! February 1st, 2008 at 8:06 pm

    Very bad move! Too many years and too much money. This deal might not haunt them this year or next year. But I’d bet it will 3-4 years from now.

  3. Jennifer - Save Phil Hughes! February 1st, 2008 at 8:07 pm

    And Brian Cashman will be dancing in the isles of Yankees Stadium.

  4. Jennifer - Save Phil Hughes! February 1st, 2008 at 8:10 pm

    damnit,aisles. I didn’t mean Yankee Stadium was on a small island! :lol: We really need an edit button.

  5. Blargh February 1st, 2008 at 8:10 pm

    Is it sad that I expected the extension part to hit at least 25 million a year, instead of sitting at just below 23 million a year?

  6. YankeeJosh February 1st, 2008 at 8:15 pm

    It’s a risk, but I don’t think it’s a horrible move. My general thought is that a pitcher will peak at ages 28-32, but should be capable up to 34. I know it’s not scientific and I admit that, but the Mets have Santana locked up until he’s 35, so he won’t be washed up when the contract ends. And in the end, the rest is just cash. Of course there is an injury risk, but for the greatest pitcher of this generation, it’s a deal worth making and I wouldn’t have complained if the Yankees had traded for him and signed him to that contract.

  7. texas money February 1st, 2008 at 8:20 pm

    Breaking News: Congress will subpeona Joe Torre to question why he did not bunt on Curt Schilling during the 2004 ALCS…developing

  8. james February 1st, 2008 at 8:20 pm

    150 million is why the Met prospect package was at the least fair. And their demands on the Yankees were absurd. Excellent job by the Mets to get Santana. They don’t have the Farm system to build from within right now.

  9. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Save the Three Musketeers! February 1st, 2008 at 8:20 pm

    I’m sorry, I can’t resist:

    Does the deal have an opt-out clause?

  10. Treads February 1st, 2008 at 8:22 pm

    That was damn funny, Texas money

  11. steve Balboni February 1st, 2008 at 8:24 pm

    Cashman is correct to say no, not because he had to give up the prospects but because he would have had to pay him $28 Million. Then they would have had two of players in the salary Stratosphere of $28 M. Is any ballplayer today really worth $28 million? In my opinion NO…NO way and NO freakin way!!!!

  12. sunny615 February 1st, 2008 at 8:25 pm

    But is he worth $28 million a year?


    ummm… no.

  13. Jennifer - Save Phil Hughes! February 1st, 2008 at 8:25 pm

    Okay my last post didn’t appear.

    Here it is again.

    Very random, but Mark Mussina, Mike’s bro has a blog.

  14. Boston Dave February 1st, 2008 at 8:26 pm

    He is worth $28M/yr IMO. But maybe not $28M and prospects.

  15. Jennifer - Save Phil Hughes! February 1st, 2008 at 8:28 pm

    Mets fans can no longer say, that the Yankees buy there way. Not when they have a 23 million dollar pitcher, a 14 million dollar cf’er, a 14.5 million dollar first baseman, another 14 + million dollar pitcher, and a 10.5 million dollar closer.

    Nope sorry Met fans, you can’t talk about money anymore.

  16. Boston Dave February 1st, 2008 at 8:29 pm


    you can have kyle lohse and carlos silva for your $22M/yr… I’ll take Santana. I’ll even give you Scott Linebrink for an extra $4-5M. Want a Farnsworth too?

    The fact is, salaries and contracts are going WAY up. $28M in today’s game is not as much as it was even a year or two ago. We all know pitching wins. Not the kind of pitching Gil Meche or Kyle Lohse give you.. the kind Santana can.

  17. Boston Dave February 1st, 2008 at 8:30 pm


    why arent players worth $28M?

    do you know how much oil execs make? i bet you still buy gas.

    money shouldnt be as much of an issue as it is. the yankees are in a different position because of their current high payroll… but in general, teams are making more $$ and thus should be spending more money.

  18. from Captain Clutch to Derek Choker February 1st, 2008 at 8:37 pm

    hahahaha good one bugs b

  19. steve Balboni February 1st, 2008 at 8:38 pm

    Boston Dave-

    Because these players are playing a game. The rising cost of these players gets passed onto the fans in the way of ticket prices, and everything inside the stadium. Have you tried taking a family of four to a game? The yankees will still continue to sell out, but the fans will always “pay the price” so to speak, for these over priced players. You need to show some fiscal responsibility and kudos to Brian Cashman for doing such a thing.

  20. Dave February 1st, 2008 at 8:47 pm

    Is Johan worth 28 million a year? Yes he is. If he isnt, No pitcher is. If he won us a championship for us – i would give him 28 mil for sure. arod is getting 25 mil per yr and he isnt winning us championships by himself – Johan prolly could win us one almost single handedly.

  21. jennifer February 1st, 2008 at 8:47 pm

    Texas $$ I would like to know that one myself. Before the game I was like we are going to bunt on him like crazy! We will rip that stitch from his ankle! But no Joe didn’t think that would be classy, as if Terry wouldn’t bunt on someone on the Yankees given the chance.

    Btw, something interesting, I just started to use firefox, and it has spell check in it. Funny thing though, it highlights firefox as a misspelled word. :lol:

  22. Blargh February 1st, 2008 at 8:47 pm

    “The rising cost of these players gets passed onto the fans in the way of ticket prices, and everything inside the stadium.”

    Not necessarily; the Marlins don’t mind raising prices and their payroll is nothing

    In general, as long as you know people will buy it, prices will go up. Want lower prices? Speak with your money (or rather, don’t give them your money)

  23. jennifer February 1st, 2008 at 8:49 pm


    But you point out the Marlins raising prices, people aren’t going. :lol: yet they raise their prices, and will likely lower their payroll again! Last year at a game they had like 400 people in the stands!!

  24. Rocco February 1st, 2008 at 8:49 pm

    jennifer you can right click and add it to the dictionary :)

  25. Boston Dave February 1st, 2008 at 8:50 pm


    Then go move to Lancaster, PA. I imagine you go to the movies, buy DVDs, buy gas for your car, listen to music, etc

    dont be a hypocrite.

  26. jennifer February 1st, 2008 at 8:50 pm

    I wonder if Lupica will put out an article about the Mets “buying” their way to the post season.

  27. jennifer February 1st, 2008 at 8:52 pm

    Rocco, but you’d think they would already have it in their dictionary. I love this feature, I no longer have to go to to check the spelling of words. :8

  28. Clare February 1st, 2008 at 8:52 pm

    Steve B,

    Nice thought, but not relevant. To us, it’s a game – to them it’s work. Why shouldn’t anyone get paid what they are worth, and/or what the market will bear, to work?

    To make it to the MLB requires talent that few possess, and creates a product that makes literally billions a year (6 billion this year, I believe(. If you were one of only a few hundred individuals that were an indispensible part of creating billions of dollars in revenue in a single year, how much should you get paid?

  29. Rocco February 1st, 2008 at 8:53 pm

    well Firefox is supposed to be capitalized… :P

  30. yyy February 1st, 2008 at 8:55 pm

    Great move for the Mets. Santana is unbelievable. He is the best pitcher in baseball, by a lot. He is definitely worth 28 million per year.

  31. jennifer February 1st, 2008 at 8:56 pm

    Rocco, you are right, :lol: Now it likes it Firefox.

  32. Steve Balboni February 1st, 2008 at 8:56 pm

    Just quickly checked a website that had the florida Marlins avg ticket price in 2006 at $16. Redsux #1 @ $46 Yanks #4 @ $26

  33. Boston Dave February 1st, 2008 at 8:59 pm

    p.s. it would have been $28M for the Yanks (After tax)… I believe it will be just $21.5 or whatever for the Mets… not to mention the Twins wanted more in terms of prospects from the Yanks than the Mets.

    great deal for the Mets… if Santana is healthy, they will likely be contenders for the next 5-7 years. doesnt mean a WS but they took a step closer to one today.

  34. Boston Dave February 1st, 2008 at 9:00 pm

    Steve B,

    and guess what… since Florida doesnt spend any money on their players… the fans (or lack of) dont go!!

    funny concept isnt it?

  35. Steve Balboni February 1st, 2008 at 9:01 pm

    So your telling me that someone like a police officer who risks his/her life everyday and makes $50-60K a year (maybe) and is a highly trained professional isn’t as valuable as a baseball player.

  36. Steve Balboni February 1st, 2008 at 9:03 pm

    Boston D

    Similar situation in Tampa, but i guess the good part about that is if your a Yankee fan living in Tampa, you can get a great seat at a cheap price.

  37. Boston Dave February 1st, 2008 at 9:04 pm

    Steve B,

    the cops I know make 100k+. they start at 50k.

    nobody said capitalism was perfect, but if you are going to contribute to it and then complain about it, doesnt that make you a hypocrite?

    if you dont like it, dont pay for the tickets. dont drive your car. dont buy dvds or cds. dont go to the movies.

    dont single out athletes either. its a poor argument on your part.

  38. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Save the Three Musketeers! February 1st, 2008 at 9:05 pm

    Heh, $26 for a ticket is nothing. You should see what I pay to go to Devils’ games.

    Or for a tank of gas.

  39. Blargh February 1st, 2008 at 9:05 pm

    Bad example by my part; forgot that Loria’s a crappy owner

  40. P'Trs February 1st, 2008 at 9:07 pm

    “He’s good. But is he worth $28 million a year?”- Peter Abraham.

    Um…was Roger “B-12 injection” worth $28,000,000.00?

  41. Boston Dave February 1st, 2008 at 9:07 pm

    Steve B,

    obviously school teachers (at least the ones who can pass an equivalency test), police officers, those in the military, etc etc are far more important to us than any baseball player.

    people have been crying about that for years. they cry, and then they pay $250 for their family of four to see a baseball game. you cant have it both ways.

    if you dont like it, dont pay for it. as long as people are, then they lose the right to complain about it. i just cancelled my cable service today because they keep raising prices. ill prob get a cheaper alternative at some point soon but that’s all i can do. i suggest if you feel this strongly that you abandon supporting pro sports.

  42. Doreen February 1st, 2008 at 9:08 pm

    The “signing bonus” part cracks me up.

  43. FTRS February 1st, 2008 at 9:10 pm

    28 million?

    We paid Roger “B-12″ roughly the same bounty for like 12 starts?

  44. FTRS February 1st, 2008 at 9:10 pm

    sorry for the double

  45. Ranting Guy February 1st, 2008 at 9:11 pm

    Of course now there’ll be no hearing the end of it if the Subway Series comes along and Santana faces Hughes. Or Kennedy.

    Imagine all the migraine-inducing tripe we’d hear about the non-deal by the Yanks if the score of that one single game would be 2-1 or 3-2.

    Yes, I intentionally did not say who would have win the game for us to hear how much everyone knew it was a good or bad idea. Either way there’ll be tons of know-it-alls with tons to say.

  46. Doreen February 1st, 2008 at 9:11 pm

    The problem with comparing teachers, policemen and other “civil servants” to athletes and entertainers is that the former are paid with taxpayer money and the latter can base salary on what the market will bear.

  47. jennifer February 1st, 2008 at 9:11 pm

    What is the Mets payroll at now?

  48. FTRS February 1st, 2008 at 9:12 pm

    Is it normal for the posts to be delayed?

  49. raymagnetic February 1st, 2008 at 9:12 pm

    “28 million?

    We paid Roger “B-12″ roughly the same bounty for like 12 starts?”

    Which Steinbrenner are you?

  50. Ranting Guy February 1st, 2008 at 9:12 pm

    Reecca – you want gas cheap? Two words: TACO BELL.


  51. Boston Dave February 1st, 2008 at 9:13 pm


    newsflash – the Yanks didnt pay Roger 28M for 12 starts (or however many starts it was)

  52. Boston Dave February 1st, 2008 at 9:13 pm

    lol ranting guy

  53. Steve Balboni February 1st, 2008 at 9:14 pm

    Boston D

    Go to your boss on Monday and tell him you want a raise to $25 mil a yr and see what he/she says.

    Some people might contribute to those things not because they want to, but because they HAVE to. I’m sure there are people out there who dont buy cd’s or dvds or go to movies but need gas to go to work to make a living. That reasoning you provide is pretty lame especially about being a hypocrite. You make an assumption of what or how i go about my business without knowing anything about the person. You might want to ask questions first before rushing to judgement.

    But this is not a conversation to have on a Yankee Blog. Maybe one day at the Cask n’ Flagon

  54. Old Goat February 1st, 2008 at 9:16 pm

    Also one thing that gets forgotten is teachers have the summer off, or they get more pay. Most teachers aren’t doing that poorly. Police in my area normally do not just get the base salary that is used all the time for this argument either. Many of them make almost 1/2 again as much in overtime, and their benefits are very good.

  55. Steve Balboni February 1st, 2008 at 9:18 pm

    but most teachers usually have to work in the summer to make ends meet.

  56. Mike NYY- Save the Big Two February 1st, 2008 at 9:18 pm

    Wow, that`s a lot. Looks like desperaton from the Mets. 7 years, ouch.

  57. Rocco February 1st, 2008 at 9:18 pm

    rangers win 3-1!!

  58. Brent February 1st, 2008 at 9:19 pm

    We keep on hearing that Santana is the best pitcher in the game today but like any pitcher, he comes with risks. Since 2004, he’s averages over 220 innings for each year which suggests an elbow flameout before his new contract expires. It could also happen to any pitcher but not at $ 28M per year.
    Why did Minnesota minimize his work in September of 2007 and not have him throw sliders ?

  59. Steve Balboni February 1st, 2008 at 9:19 pm

    and now onto YANKEE matters…

  60. bkight13 February 1st, 2008 at 9:20 pm

    Millions of people are qualified to be teachers, cops and nurses. Only a few thousand can play professional baseball at the top levels. It’s simple economics, supply and demand.

  61. Boston Dave February 1st, 2008 at 9:21 pm


    since you brought it up, I plan on leaving my job (not for a few months due to personal timing) because money isnt going to be my main motivation. laugh all you want but i am considering travelling the country living out of my car and camping for a while. then figure things out at the end of the summer. i actually am grateful for the salary my employer gives me and have never asked for a raise in my entire career… though i have no problem with anybody who does (they should).

    bottom line: you are arguing against the entire economic system of the country we all live in… YET you choose to isolate professional athletes as the problem?

    THAT is what is lame.

  62. whoa February 1st, 2008 at 9:22 pm

    I predict that this will be one of the worst contracts ever signed in the history of MLB. I think Santana will have surgery within two years.

  63. FTRS February 1st, 2008 at 9:22 pm


    The poor woman Leyritz killed had a higher BAC than he did…

  64. Mike NYY- Save the Big Two February 1st, 2008 at 9:22 pm

    Millions of people are qualified to be teachers, cops and nurses. Only a few thousand can play professional baseball at the top levels. It’s simple economics, supply and demand.

    Sad but true. No alternative.

    Except for communism.

  65. Mike NYY- Save the Big Two February 1st, 2008 at 9:23 pm

    The poor woman Leyritz killed had a higher BAC than he did…

    link? Besides, Leyritz was the one that ran a red light.

  66. Blargh February 1st, 2008 at 9:24 pm

    Of course, humans and communism don’t really mix well

  67. FTRS February 1st, 2008 at 9:25 pm

    Boston Dave

    “The buzz in the industry Friday was that Santana’s agents, Peter and Ed Greenberg, initially asked for the $28 million per year listed in Roger Clemens’ prorated contract with the Yankees last season — which would have amounted to a six-year, $168 million extension.” – Jayson Stark ESPN

  68. FTRS February 1st, 2008 at 9:26 pm



  69. Boston Dave February 1st, 2008 at 9:26 pm


    even if Santana gets hurt, you cant call it the worst. Santana is a HOF caliber pitcher, currently the best in baseball. are you saying that teams should never take risks? and if they do, they shouldnt even take them on Hall of Famers just entering their prime?

    i like santana and dont want him to get hurt, but i wouldnt mind him sucking it up now that he’s a Met. i just wouldnt count on it (unfortunately).

  70. Boston Dave February 1st, 2008 at 9:28 pm


    so, how much did Clemens make for his 12 starts?

    AGAIN, he did NOT make $28M for 12 starts as you clearly misstated.

  71. Mike NYY- Save the Big Two February 1st, 2008 at 9:28 pm

    Wow, the lawyers should have some fun with this.

  72. Steve Balboni February 1st, 2008 at 9:28 pm

    How insane was it for the Twins to go back to the Yankees just before accepting the Mets offer, and ask for CMW and IPK?

  73. Boston Dave February 1st, 2008 at 9:29 pm


    sorry, i should have just provided you with a link of your own:

  74. Old Goat February 1st, 2008 at 9:31 pm

    Steve, re teachers having to work summers to make ends meet…
    I know plenty of teachers who do not have to work summers to support their families. And those that do, well boo hoo, that makes work the same as the rest of us. Most of the teachers I know don’t put in 70 hours + a week, either. Not only that, it is their choice to be in a profession that has historically been lower paying than other professions.

  75. FTRS February 1st, 2008 at 9:31 pm

    David of Boston…

    Would you mind enlightening me so I can avoid future “misstatements” by revealing what Roger Roids was paid?



  76. bkight13 February 1st, 2008 at 9:31 pm

    The Mets also have a new stadium to fill. They needed to make this deal and will get a very good return on their investment in terms of tickets, TV money and most likely extra playoff revenue.

  77. Steve Balboni February 1st, 2008 at 9:33 pm

    Does Lloyds of London still insure professional athletes? i know years ago they did, but i haven’t heard of anything recently.

    The Mike Hampton contract was probably one of the worst contracts ever signed from a teams perspective.

  78. Boston Dave February 1st, 2008 at 9:40 pm


    just use the link i sent. i dont have the time or desire to educate you.

  79. Victor the Predictor February 1st, 2008 at 9:40 pm

    Johan Santana will have the exact same record in 2008 as he did in 2007. 15 wins and 13 losses, a 2 game swing.

  80. Boston Dave February 1st, 2008 at 9:51 pm


    hope you are right. what do you forsee for Daisuke in year 2?

  81. Chris February 1st, 2008 at 9:53 pm

    You know from the start I said I wouldn’t even trade Hughes for Santana straight up. Most people thought it was crazy. But my reasoning was simple.

    Give me Hughes + $28 million or so per year, and I can buy us a couple relievers whose combined VORP w/ Hughes will be greater then Santana’s, even if he has a good year. The Yankees need a Bullpen. That is where we need to spend the money. It also will give us the flexibility to sign Tex next year and get rid of this “platoon of 12″ mess at 1b.

  82. jennifer February 1st, 2008 at 9:53 pm


    I posted that earlier, although the article that I got it from said she had a .08 bac, which is legally driving drunk. However it wasn’t higher than his.

  83. whoa February 1st, 2008 at 9:54 pm

    Boston Dave

    I don’t believe in giving pitchers (who are near 30 or older) contracts that are longer than four years, particularly if they had the kind of statistical meltdown that Santana had in September (caused by an inability to throw his slider?), and especially if they don’t have a Josh Beckett-like body type.

    Of course, my belief in that limitation will be tested if and when Joba and Phil establish themselves as #1 or #2 starters, and they become eligible, or nearly eligible, for free agency. But that’s my general rule.

  84. Nick February 1st, 2008 at 9:55 pm

    When the ink dries on his contract, Santana will need to wonder what the long term prognosis will be with his new team.
    Some aging players and not so ripe farm system means a lot of free agent buying – or else.

  85. Boston Dave February 1st, 2008 at 9:55 pm


    valid points perhaps, except… who would you sign using the extra money for the bullpen this season? Tex isnt going to be cheap either.

    if you make the decision that you are going to cut the payroll, thats fine. but to say that you are not going to spend on santana so that you can spend it elsewhere doesnt make as much sense.

    i guess its a moot point now. go hughes!

  86. jennifer February 1st, 2008 at 9:56 pm

    Wow just read the article!! She could have very easily run the light. Suddenly she doesn’t look quite so sympathetic.

  87. Blargh February 1st, 2008 at 9:57 pm

    Didn’t Roger make about 18 million?

    28 million for 6 months of work should be about 4.67 million a month, though report says 4.5 million a month
    He pitched from June to mid-September…though should’ve been on roster for the rest of the month, so I guess that counts as 4 months

  88. Boston Dave February 1st, 2008 at 9:58 pm


    i cant argue that. i think santana is an exception to that rule for pitchers… there arent many HOF caliber 28yr old pitchers who are the best in baseball, left handed and though there is question about september, have no real injury history.

    but i do see your point.

  89. Boston Dave February 1st, 2008 at 10:00 pm


    that sounds about right. i dont think anyone can argue that it was a bit much… but george obviously wanted roger badly and its his money, no?

    hopefully he at least had a positive impact on joba and phil in the short time he was there.

  90. Victor the Predictor February 1st, 2008 at 10:04 pm

    Boston Dave -

    Daisuke Matsuzaka never did have a “gyro ball” and hitters will further figure him out. Pencil him in for 12-13 wins, maximum. No need for an eraser.

  91. Keith February 1st, 2008 at 10:11 pm

    Boston Dave :

    George badly wanted Roger last year but son Hal didn’t hold the purse strings then. Hal isn’t frugal, just cautious. See Johan Santana for reference.

  92. Keith FL February 1st, 2008 at 10:15 pm

    He is worth it and the Yanks will have $84 million off the books next year so they could have afforded him…they are going to charge high enough ticket and luxury box and parking prices for the new stadium…..for what to see Santana shut us out in the first Mets-Yankees interleague series at the new stadium….I hope I’m wrong but we needed an ace and he was there for the taking…Cashman you blew it and I can’t believe we still don’t have an ace….sorry but I just don’t like losing in the playoffs while Boston goes and pays for Dice-K ($$$) and Beckett (prospects) and wins the World Series and we pay for Farnsworth, Giambi, Abreu, Damon, Pettite but no real ace…kind of like how we should have gotten Carlos Beltran at the discount he offered…Steinbrenner help..Cashamn is an idiot now when it comes to making the big move where is the GM whose knees buckled at the though of trading for Clemens??….. he has been replaced by a GM who wants to solidify his rep with youngsters and not money for free agents….here’s to chasing the Sox in 08……it sucks!!

  93. Yazman February 1st, 2008 at 10:17 pm

    My crystal ball says:

    -Mets? They’ll flourish due to the Santana trade and signing

    -Yanks? They’ll flourish due to no Santana trade and signing

    -Twins? Not so much.

  94. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Save the Three Musketeers! February 1st, 2008 at 10:22 pm

    Yazman: Love it!

  95. Boston Dave February 1st, 2008 at 10:25 pm


    i know… im just saying that by giving clemens 10-15M more than he should have gotten (prorated to only 6-9M more), it had almost no impact on the yanks in 2007 other than to george’s personal balance sheet. people keep using the $28M against clemens and the yanks and though its a big #, it wasnt that big of a deal. hindsight is 20/20. clemens led the league, granted the NL, in ERA in 2006. an extra 6M total isnt enough to get worked up over.

  96. Bob February 1st, 2008 at 10:26 pm

    Clemens wasn’t a 7 year contract people. It was a prorated, less than a season deal.

    There’s a big difference.

  97. Yazman February 1st, 2008 at 10:27 pm

    Victor: my crystal ball says DiceK improves. Not as fast as PH, JC and IPK will improve though.

  98. Boston Dave February 1st, 2008 at 10:31 pm


    back to Arlen Spector…. wasnt it nice of him to bring all this up 2 days before the Super Bowl?

    he’s not just trying to get his name in the news, is he?

  99. mel February 1st, 2008 at 10:34 pm

    Roger was pure entertainment. Wasn’t it worth it to see Suzy lose control, Polly Porkchop Plough bang her fist, and watch Hughes save Roger’s infamous rump?

  100. mel February 1st, 2008 at 10:38 pm

    Boston Dave,

    A reporter dropped a little nugget at the state of the league presser. Apparently, Specter has an interest in Comcast.

  101. OldYanksFans February 1st, 2008 at 10:48 pm

    Hey… is anyone interested in a LH SP? He’s old, creaky and cranky, but he could be had VERY cheap and he might fit in with our team:

    Rumors of David Wells’ demise may be premature. Wells’ agent, Gregg Clifton, has been telling teams Wells wants to play one more year and doesn’t care what time zone or zip code he plays in. Some window-shopping so far, but no aggressive bidders.

  102. mel February 1st, 2008 at 11:00 pm

    Old Yanks Fan,

    David Wells looks fantastic. He’s wearing his old clothes, so he looks like Jared in the Subway commercials.

    For all the old farts out there, Mamie Van Doren’s picking the Pats.

    The artistes going with the Gints and the athletes, especially the Olympians, are going with the Patriots.

  103. mel February 1st, 2008 at 11:02 pm

    Well, Shaq’s going with the Giants. But he’s more of an actor than an athlete now, right?

  104. Blargh February 1st, 2008 at 11:06 pm

    Heh, she’s a Legendary sex symbol

    Is this the second time that Mamie Van Doren’s name showed up in this blog’s comments?

  105. Upstate February 1st, 2008 at 11:06 pm

    It’s a good deal – whether we like it or not.
    Top shelf pitcher.
    New league.
    Weaker league.
    No DH.
    Decent lineup.
    Gave up – nothing alarming.

    Money. Hell – minimal talent Jennifer Lopez probably makes more!

  106. Blargh February 1st, 2008 at 11:10 pm

    Ok, I like the reasoning offered by the man behind Dilbert, Scott Adams
    “Giants, 37-21. Eli Manning has more incentive to win because he’s trying to make his parents love him more they love his older brother. That’s a bigger incentive than Tom Brady’s desire to win yet another ring and bed yet another super model. It’s a question of diminishing returns.”

  107. mel February 1st, 2008 at 11:14 pm


    Yes, that’s her. She makes Pamela Sue looklike a pre-teen.

  108. Buddy Biancalana February 1st, 2008 at 11:15 pm


    The only Shaq I know is Shaq Fu.

  109. Jaewon February 1st, 2008 at 11:25 pm

    Santana, Maine, Pedro. . . that’s a pretty good three. Who else they got?

  110. Buddy Biancalana February 1st, 2008 at 11:26 pm

    Ollie Perez & El Duque

  111. mel February 1st, 2008 at 11:35 pm

    Shaq Hu?

  112. RSM February 1st, 2008 at 11:37 pm

    Random responses(actually rants) to above posts:

    Leyritz is still wrong, but I’m not convinced his charges shouldn’t be lessened. Who’s to say that this woman being completely drunk AND NOT WEARING A SEATBELT didn’t factor into her death. She may very well have survived sober and belted.

    Most of my extended family are police and teachers. Nowadays, their salaries are very competitive with the private sector. Additionally, most cops almost double their salary in overtime and most teachers have time to work a second and third job. Frankly, when you factor in their job security, work hours, and generous benefits, all of which FAR exceed anything obtainable in the private sector, they most likely come out ahead of the average private sector employee.

    Law enforcement and teaching are noble professions, but major league talent baseball players are far more rare.

    This is a great trade for the Mets. It’s a ridiculous contract, but Santana is worth risking the money. I would have been fine with the Yanks giving him the same deal. The problem for us was that the Twins wanted so much more in trade from the Yankees. Additionally, I believe Santana will be a bigger difference maker for the Mets than he would have been for the Yanks. He should dominate the NL east, less likely the AL east.

    Rant over :-)

  113. Upstate February 1st, 2008 at 11:49 pm


    Perfect last paragraph. Bullseye.

  114. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Save the Three Musketeers! February 1st, 2008 at 11:50 pm

    Guys, for the record, writing is, on occasion, the most cathartic experience ever.

    I’m not sure if that’s a comment on my writing or on my lack of a noticeable life, but that’s totally not the point.

  115. Rocco February 1st, 2008 at 11:59 pm

    Rebecca… what happened to the Devils tonight ;)

  116. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Save the Three Musketeers! February 2nd, 2008 at 12:04 am

    Rocco: I’m stuck up in Syracuse. They don’t like to win when I’m not in New Jersey!

  117. whoa February 2nd, 2008 at 12:27 am

    From a legal perspective, the fact that Leyritz’s victim was drunk has no bearing on the causality of the crash, or his culpability. Leyritz’s recklessness was the supervening cause of her death.

  118. mel February 2nd, 2008 at 12:28 am

    I’m still smiling. What a beautiful day. What a great trade. No not that one. The other one.

  119. Yankee fan in Houston February 2nd, 2008 at 1:11 am

    The amazing thing to me is that the Twins got caught at decision time without a firm offer from anyone but the Mets. What if they had asked for Tabata, Horne, Betances and Marquez? or that group plus Brett Gardner or even Austin Jackson? Answer? They will never know. They let themslves get played by the Red Sox and at the end of the day had only one offer for the best pitcher in baseball.

  120. mel February 2nd, 2008 at 1:56 am

    i miss bernie & old yanks fan,

    Caught your responses in the other thread. You guys are right, seafood would spoil after 3 days. But ahi doesn’t make it past 30 minutes here, so I guess I was thinking of the rice which can spoil without sushi-zu. I’d never heard a case of anyone getting sick from sushi, so my bad.

    There’s a lot of sushi & poke at Super Bowl parties here. What’s everyone serving up on Sunday?

  121. Chris February 2nd, 2008 at 2:41 am

    Cashman is an overrated as shead.

    He has done NOTHING this offseason save re-sign, extend, and pick up the options on guys he has to re-sign, extend, and pick up options on. His signings have been Latroy Hawkins, Jason Lane, and Morgan Ensberg. His trade was Clippard for Albaldejo. 3 of these 4 guys may not even make the team and the one guy who’s guaranteed to make it (Hawkins) may not even make it through the year as a Yankee. $16M to Abreu who would have been lucky to get $11M which I bet he’d have taken. The only good thing he did was let Matsui know he isn’t untouchable anymore. All this after blowing $46M on Igawa. Oh wait, he signed Carl Pavano to a minor-league deal, and let that turd who just stole $39.95M for making about 2/3rds of a season of starts in 4 years think about it. Great job not getting rid of the lazy, satisfied, overpaid Damon, too.

    He can’t even put together a good bench outside of a no-brainer re-signing of a good veteran backstop, but even that he screws up cuz TWO years to a backup catcher? Who was giving Molina two years much less a full-time job? I like Molina but two years? Betemit can’t play the field, draw a walk, run, or hit. He’s a free-swinger. Ditto for Duncan. $1.75M to a backup 1B if he makes the team, up to $4M if he’s pressed into duty (Ensberg), when Boston just signed veteran good glove 1B and career .300 hitter with solid OBP Sean Casey to just a year and $700K, WHAT JOSH PHELPS GOT LAST YEAR!!!

    Who’s in this friggin’ bullpen besides Mo? Latroy Hawkins is a so-so. Cashman gives Ensberg the chance to make at least $1.75M and as much as $4M, but he won’t offer Farnsworth and $2.875M (the midway point between $1.75M and $4M) to a team who could use a closer for just a year and $2.875M (to clear $2.875K). GENIUS! After these three (with Mo still being very good but not what he once was) it’s anyone’s guess and sorry, that just isn’t cutting it.

    All you dumbos out there who say “I’m glad Santana is out of the A.L.” GUESS WHAT? The Yanks will draw him once or twice a year since they play the Mets two 3-game series a year, just as much as they’ve faced him most years. They’ll be lucky to not face him for one year. Number of times Boston faces him: whenever the hell they face the Mets in interleague but maybe not if he isn’t scheduled for that series (0-2 starts across two series in 7 years).

    The Yanks should fire Cashman now as this team did NOT improve from last year esp. in the bullpen. It still doesn’t
    have that postseason ace Boston has and sorry, Beckett > Wang or Pettitte, he just is. Schilling is just as good as either in a pressure-packed A.L.C.S. game.

  122. i miss bernie February 2nd, 2008 at 7:07 am

    my famous chili-cheese nachos! ( i do make the best guacamole!)

  123. EARLY REPORT February 2nd, 2008 at 7:35 am

    Happy Groundhog Day !!!

    Punxatawney Phil sez …. 7 miserable months of baseball for Boston courtesy of the Yankees.

  124. i miss bernie February 2nd, 2008 at 8:21 am

    LETS GO G-MEN!!!!!!!!!!!

  125. RonH February 2nd, 2008 at 8:55 am

    Lupica gets worse everyday. Makes it look like Cashman and Hank were pleading with Bill Smith for a deal.

    “… The Yankees don’t get Santana, as much as they wanted him and as much as they needed an ace.”

  126. i miss bernie February 2nd, 2008 at 9:09 am

    i just dont get columns like lupica’s. dont they get it that the yanks just arent going to sign monster long term deals with pitchers. Cash didnt spend all those draft pics and all that bonus money on pitchers only to pay someone else’s ace $22M and i dont blame him. The Yanks will pay thier entire rotation less money than JS will make in his first 6 mets years. This will allow them to spend freely on the postion players they need and at the same time lower thier payroll to around what the next highest payroll team is paying. And i dont subscribe to the theory that the yanks have no ace, i think Phil and Joba are going to both be aces!

  127. * * THEE BOSTON BUGLE * * February 2nd, 2008 at 9:23 am

    Some teams will do anything to generate revenue :

    I work for a small non profit in Boston and we’re about to have an auction event where one of the items will be 6 seats in Theo Epstein’s box for a game TBA.

    The only problem is, the item will only be donated if we can ensure a bid of at least $10,000.

    The item will be available via online auction. Do you guys think this is a realistic goal?

    Would love to have your feedback before we accept.

  128. Drive 4-5 February 2nd, 2008 at 10:45 am


    I think they should never have donated it if they put restrictions on the donation.

  129. Kill-Schill(ing) February 2nd, 2008 at 11:45 am

    Hey, Schweber just sent me a set of interesting stats he plans to use for his next post at The Yankees Republic.

    Apparently, very few young pitchers thrive in their first full season as starters.

    Even the greats have struggled. I gather his point is don’t expect a World Series with Hughes, Chamberlain, and IPK.

    Here’s the list.

    1)1984 Roger Clemens (Age 21)———133.3 IPs, 4.32 ERA, 1.31 WHIP

    2) 1987 Greg Maddux (Age 21)———- 155.7 IPs, 5.61 ERA, 1.64 WHIP

    3) 1987 Tom Glavine (Age 22)———–195 IPs, 4.56 ERA, 1.35 WHIP

    4) 2000 Roy Halliday (Age 23)————67.7IPs, 10.64 ERA, 2.20 WHIP

    5) 2000 Brad Penny (Age 22)————119.7IPs, 4.81 ERA, 1.50 WHIP

    6) 2001 CC Sabathia(Age 20)————180.3IPs, 4.39 ERA, 1.35 WHIP

    7) 2002 Jake Peavy (Age 21)————-97.7 IPs, 4.53 ERA, 1.43 WHIP

    8) 2002 Josh Beckett(Age 22)———–107.7IPs, 4.10 ERA, 1.27 WHIP

    9) 2003 Dan Haren (Age 22)————-72.7IPs, 5.08 ERA, 1.46 WHIP

    10) 2004 Eric Bedard (age 25)————137.3IPs, 4.59 ERA, 1.60 WHIP

  130. gargoyle February 2nd, 2008 at 12:20 pm

    Hey Chris – Casey was not on Cash’s radar because he was looking for a RIGHTHANDED bat and Ensberg’s OBP skills are much better than Casey’s anyway so I’m sure what your prattling on about. By the way Betemit is quite effective batting lefthanded.

  131. T15D23 February 2nd, 2008 at 1:27 pm

    Firstly, great blog.

    I’m in disagreement that the sole reason, or that it was any consideration, that the Yankees did not pursue Santana due to the luxury tax. If that was the case, Hank “Tweedle Dum” Steinbrenner could have had Rodrigez for far less than he ended up coughing up. I still see this Rodrigez signing, amount and length, as a huge mistake when the Yankees could have gotten him for 6 years at under $24M per.

    As for the difference Santana could have made on our lackluster rotation is anyone’s guess, but this should have been a deal that the Yankees should have made.

  132. Russell W February 2nd, 2008 at 2:30 pm

    Agreed – for a guy that has an impact about 7 innings ever 5 games, that is too much to spend on a pitcher. Especially since you’re giving up the farm.

  133. Prete Funk Era February 2nd, 2008 at 3:52 pm


    6 seats in Theo’s box for $10,000?

    You can get some press in the redsox’s blogs, maybe the official MLB RS page. It’s a little under $1,700 a seat, very doable.

    What charity? How did you get the seats?

  134. BBB February 2nd, 2008 at 4:52 pm

    I had read on MLBTR yesterday that Santana wanted an opt out clause after 3 years, does anyone know if that ended up getting in there? The 2 articles I’ve read about this contract didn’t say.

  135. Chris February 2nd, 2008 at 4:54 pm

    Hey gargoyle

    What are you prattling on about about Casey? Casey has higher career BA and OBP than Ensberg. He’s also a better 1B than Ensberg and would’ve been the perfect #8-hitting 1B in case Giambi fell to injury, so get a clue about who you’re talking about. Boston just signed the guy. Boston, they of two World Series titles in the past 4 years. Cashman wanted a righthanded-hitting 1B? UHHHHH Betemit is a switch-hitter and Duncan bats righthanded. If only the Yankees taught these two how to play 1B. The bench should be Molina, Casey, Gardner, and one of three guys: Betemit, Green, or Woodward (backup 2B/3B/SS).

  136. Little Chip February 2nd, 2008 at 8:03 pm

    Tottaly agree

  137. Jim in CT February 2nd, 2008 at 9:31 pm

    Chris — Rant-of-the-Month!

  138. gargoyle February 3rd, 2008 at 12:57 pm

    Actually Casey and Ensberg have identical .366 career OBPs. Ensberg’s has drawn as many as 101 BBs, Casey’s career high is 61.

    Betemit is going to be on the team and will likely get a shot to be part of the 1B platoon. While he is a switch hitter he’s drmatically better from the left side (.268/.347/.464 vs .232/.281/.353). He’s useless as a righthanded bateer. Hence the need for a righthanded 1B alternative – the Yankees arent going to give Shelly Duncan 300+PAs.

    Casey was not on their radar because they have no use for him.

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