Second annual spring training travel guide
-
- February
- 2
Thinking about going to spring training to see the Yankees? Or already booked the trip? Here are some tips for you:
Where to stay: Tampa has dozens of hotel options at all price ranges. If you can, try and stay in the Westshore area. It’s close to the airport, close to Legends Field and close to assorted restaurants.
Tickets: If you didn’t get them by now, you might have trouble. But check MLB.com for strays before you go to a broker. There are always tickets on the street, too. Be willing to travel. The games against the Blue Jays, Phillies and Devil Rays are a short distance away. Check out their sites for information.
Seeing the players: The big leaguers work out at Legends Field and the two practice fields, one on either side. When there’s a home game, the Yankees usually take BP on field beyond the right field corner. You can get a goood vantage point there. Unlike other camps, there is really no spot where the players walk through the crowd. So getting autographs is no sure thing. Get there early and watch the pre-game workouts. That’ll be your best chance to see the guys.
The main bullpen is an interesting place to spend some time. Once you’re in Legends Field, go all the way over to the right. The stands overlook the bullpen.
Minor leaguers: Those guys work out across the street, at the complex of fields behind Raymond James Stadium. There’s not a lot of room for fans over there but there are a few areas to watch from.
Getting around: The traffic is bad around Tampa, so leave yourself plenty of time to get where you’re going. The Tampa airport is pretty efficient. You’ll need a rental car as there is little in the way of public transportation beyond hopping a bus.
Food: Lots of choices here. Every chain in the free world is within a few miles. Flemings, a top-notch steakhouse, is close by. There are plenty of seafood places. I like Roy’s, an Asian fusion place. For top-notch Italian, you can’t beat Donatello.
The International Plaza mall has several places including The Capital Grille. The Westshore Plaza has a Maggiano’s and Mitchell’s Fish Market.
Frivolity: There are numerous places to have a drink (or two) in Tampa. The Ybor City area is a good spot. Or you can hang out at the Blue Martini. Tampa is notorious for its strip clubs and there are about a dozen of them near Legends Field. I’ve heard they stay open late. Tampa has a good zoo and Busch Gardens is close by. You could drive to Disney (about 70 minutes down the highway) or go to the beach if it’s warm enough.
This entry was posted
on Saturday, February 2nd, 2008 at 9:00 am by Peter Abraham.
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Pete:
Any idea how to get tickets to the Virginia Tech game?
this year i am flying into orlando and staying there. i am hitting one game at tampa and one game in brandenton. i found flights a lot cheaper as well as hotels in tampa. last year i did stay right in tampa at the hotel right next to raymond james stadium. there is a really fun aspect of staying with all the yankee fans at the same hotel. at night we would hit the pool and hang out with beers in the hot tub with other fans and just b.s. about stuff. mostly everyone in the area is from the tri-state area it seems. the town just thrives in march on yankee baseball.
biggest suggestion, if the game starts at 1pm, GET THERE AT 11, it’s worth it!
i got to see Alex, Matsui, Melky and some others take some hacks in the field. also as i am standing next to the fence, brian cashman walks right up to have a chat with someone. oh look, there’s reggie jackson. oh look, there’s graig nettles. oh look, yogi just sat down. it’s an experience you will never experience in new york. it’s worth it to make the trip.
if you are in tampa and want a GREAT meal, make sure you have a rental car. go over to “black beans” for some stellar cuban food. it’s a local’s place so there is always a place to sit.
entertainment… ybor city is ok, but i didn’t really care for it that much. there’s a decent brewhouse there (forgot the name) and some quaintness to it, but overall just didn’t do much for me.
orlando is only an hour or so away. just get on i-4 and make the trip to universal studios, it’s got a free section called citywalk where they have good restaurants (emeril’s was stellar) and bars/clubs/etc.
if you are renting a car, spend the money, get a convertible. it’s worth it.
if you have kids, check out the zoo in tampa. it’s a cute place, but if you are adults going it may not thrill you.
road trips, take them. go out and discover. lakeland, orlando, etc… it’s all within driving distance.
if you are going to be in town from the 15th - 20th, come by www.thebaseballoutsider.com and let me know, i want to try to meet up with some fellow bloghogs.
oh and by the way, last season i got to spend a few mins with our own pete.
Wallypip:
I called VT for that info. Here’s what they told me:
Tickets to the Virginia Tech game are open to students only at this time. There is a possibility tickets will be opened to the public at some time, but no definite date. I was advised to check often with hokiesports.com for any news regarding that game. I’m checking about every day. So far no news. I’m keeping my fingers crossed.
Thanks Rebecca.
Um, Pete..can I stow away?
Let’s not forget Mons Venus (grown-ups only!!!) - even if it’s not your kinda thing, a legendary Tampa hot spot that should at least give you a good story when you get back home!
We went to Disneyworld back in 2000. And took in the Yankees-Astros in Kissimmee. El Duque started for the Yankees and Doc Gooden for the Astros.
Got Torre, Brosius, and Bernie’s (only one he signed) autographs after the game.
Pete,
Good tips. I’m going down for my 1st spring training game this year. Sunday, March 16th, Yanks-Cleveland. I made reservations at the Comfort Inn which is real close to the Ball Park. I assume that’s the hotel you’re referencing?
While driving somewhere, like to Universal, sounds fun, my buddy and I will be partying at night, so driving isn’t an option. I was looking on-line at that Ybor City. I’d be interested in that brew pub since I like to check out local micro-brews. Is that an affordable cab ride from where the stadium is?
Gotta love Southwest. $350 roundtrip, non-stop from Albany NY.
We’re staying there an extra day to get a round of golf in. Any thoughts on a nice public golf course in the Tampa area?
Two more weeks until pitchers and catchers report!!
For those not in the theme park scene, I suggest staying and hanging out in a more laid back Pinellas County.
From Tampa International Airport take I-275 south and over the Howard Frankland Bridge. Get off on the 4th St. exit in St. Pete. Many smaller and less expensive motels and eateries nearby and Derby Lane Racetrack. Go straight ahead west to some of the best beaches anywhere.
Coming back to Tampa for Legends Field, take I-275 north to the 41-B exit (Dale Mabry Hwy). Follow up 3 miles to Legends Field on the left. Park across the street at the Raymond James parking lot and walk over the footbridge into Legends.
For day games, leave Pinellas no later than 10:00 AM to allow for bridge traffic. For night games, leave no later than 3:00 PM to allow for bridge and early rush hour traffic.
I like Ybor City too, but I wouldn’t go there at night. The Columbia Restaurant should be on Pete’s list. The original is in Ybor City and there are a few others around Tampa and Orlando, if I recall. Great Spanish food, with a Cuban flair.
And whenever I’m in Tampa, I track down genuine Cubano sandwiches. They are the best anywhere outside of Cuba, and as an afficionado of fine regional sandwiches, these rank with the Philly cheese steak, the New Orleans muffaletta, the New Jersey Italian hoagie, or any pulled pork from the Carolinas.
I-4 between Tampa and Orlando is an absolute nightmare. There was a recent 70-car pileup with 3 killed.
[ALWAYS] allow extra time if using it. Rush hour on the road can make the L.I.E. or Cross Bronx X-way look like a backstreet.
Thurman
February 2nd, 2008 at 10:07 am
I like Ybor City too, but I wouldn’t go there at night
Can you expand on this? Is the neighborhood bad? I was thinking about cabbing it over there for some partying at night. Not good? Alternatives?
Jay, watch what you say about all sports writers not being in shape. Some actually played sports. Emphasis on some.
And Thurman is right, Pete. Gotta go to the Columbia. It’s probably my favorite restaurant in the Tampa area. My other favorite is Bierne’s Steakhouse (probably butchered the spelling). I think it’s in St. Pete. Great food, but bring your wallet and wear something nice.
Also, might I suggest that if you can’t find a place in Tampa, Clearwater is also a pretty good location. It’s only a 20-minute drive or so across the causeway to Legend’s Field, there are probably more rooms available — and you can eat at the original Hooters, to boot.
Columbia Restaurant is outstanding.
The best steakhouse in Tampa is Bern’s Steak House. For those who like upscale, its the place to go.
They have a seperate dessert room (you go there after you pay your dinner if you want dessert) that’s definitely worth it. About 30 pages of dessert options.
Try the Macamdamia nut ice cream. Its worth the trip.
Rebecca,
I was thinking of you last week. I took my son out to S.U. last Saturday. He’s a High School senior. He auditioned for the musical theatre program. He said it went well… we shall see.
Auditions every week at 5 different colleges. This afternoon we head down to Pace University.
Deep to Left — Ybor City is a high crime area. Now, as far as New Yorkers are concerned, it’s probably not as bad as some areas in New York, but it’s bad at night. It’s actually pretty charming during the day, and if you’re taking a cab, going directly to the door of a restaurant, you’re probably going to be fine.
Are many people going to ST?
Shouldn’t we have a ‘vehicle’ here to network people together?
Might some people want to split a hotel room, or stay at the same hotel as others?
How about 3 people renting a Luxury condo for a week, which would be cheaper for each then a hotel room.
Share a rental car?
Party together?
Might this be a good idea?
Would people prefer going on their own, or meeting a group of fellow bloggers?
Feedback folks?
I live alone and don’t have anyone to keep me company.
anyone else in the same boat?
Thurman,
Thanks. That’s not encouraging. So hanging in that brewpub there may not be such a good idea? Rough clientele?
I went to ST last year based on Pete’s information and had a great time went to 3 games. We stayed in Clearwater on the beach (except construction LOL). Wasn’t a far drive at all.
This year the trip will be to New York and Yankee stadium (if I can get good tix).
By the way, it was a long time ago, but something in the Tampa area I found fascinating was Thomas Edisons Winter Home and Laboratory. Aside from having one of his original lightbulbs (still ‘on’), it included his rubber tree plantation (Edison made a rubber that basically never wore out) and many other cool things. Maybe worth looking at for those who want to sight-see in the area.
http://goflorida.about.com/od/photo1/ss/edison_ford.htm
Thanks for all the tips. I’m heading to ST for the first time and traveling solo. I have two extra tickets to the game on March 11. If anyone is interested, please let me know.
Pete knows exactly what times the strip clubs close.
He also knows which bouncers to tip to get “premium” service.
Just kidding…
Suzy - If you are interested, drop me an EMail at Yahoo and we can chat a bit. My handle is: singledddd
Soemthing also worth mentioning if you have family on Florida’s East Coast.
The Yankees play the Marlins in their last two exhibition games at Miami Dolphins Stadium, in North Miami, on March 28 and March 29.
The Stadium hold over 60,000 for baseball games so finding tickets shouldn’t be too difficult– not like trying to obtain one of 10,000 for Legends Field anyway.
SJ44:
Berns Steakhouse is absolutely fabulous!
Everyone:
So I am thinking of some sort of fun contest to raffle off my tickets for March 17 (Yankees vs Redsox)
my seats are on the dugout.. Any ideas?
here is a pic of me and my seats from last year…
http://gallery.mac.com/mikeisgreat#100055/DSCN7276&bgcolor=black
BTW, I did want to say that as many of you disagreed with me being so angered and outspoken about the Santana trade.. I am not an unreasonable person. I just wanted Santana bad! I’ve wished it for years.
Anyhow, I might even goto the Yanks vs Sox game, in that case I will have one extra ticket.
Man, one of these years I’ll totally be able to not have class the entire month of February and head over there…
I know Jeter eats at PF Changs at international plaza ALOT. Its where i met him and many other people i know said they saw him there from time to time. At night I know the a bunch of them like hangin out at Blue Martini. And I’ve heard the pitching staff hangs at Splitsville at Channelside.
PF Changs is actually at the Westshore Mall. My bad
Mmmm PF Changs! I’ve been meaning to go there. When I lived in MIami I ate there twice a week..
Now that I am in Sarasota, the Tampa PF Changs is about an hour away.
Fleas: Why, whoever satiates your ego most, of course!
My suite mate used to work at Berns Steakhouse. He said the food is awesome but very pricey. He actually told me he’s seen the Yankees from time to time.
JBRO :
Many high level Yankee meetings have been held at Bern’s.
Berns is awesome. My parents would take us there on my sister’s and my birthdays or graduations. The French Onion soup is to die for!I was there one night and Pres. Bush was sitting eating a 10 ounce fillet in one of the smaller rooms surrounded by SS by the doors. Its also in a good area for some upper scale bars in SoHo(South Howard Ave.) such as Mangroves, Wiskey Park, Macdintons, Dubliner. all perfect to meet beautiful women.
Yep looks exactly the same, Please give me a break.
Joe it doesn’t look anything like what you posted.
Klaphish says the Mets just punched their ticked to the playoffs, kiss of death. Didn’t they all say in July that the Mets were playoff bound and they could kick back and relax.
Rebecca: Right. Thank you girl genius.
Go PatPats!
Does anyone know Mike Lupica’s email address?
“I’ve heard they stay open late.”
Fleas: Happy to oblige!
Generally, wherever the Captain is seen, his best buddy Jorge will be seen. There a breakfast spot on North Dale Mabry called Mom’s. Many Yankees go there before heading to nearby Legends.
Jennifer …
Lupica’s e-mail address is listed at end the of his column. Another one - http://enough-Lupica.com/index.htm
happy Spring Day everyone!
Anyone know if whether the 300 million $ man is in Tampa or Miami?
Hey Peter I am looking forward to your omments on the artile in todays bostone herald sports section front page on the taping of the Rams walkthru by the Pats before the superbowl!!!
This is the Boston Heral frnot page, no Giant fan like me.. Bellichick is a bad dude who will do anything legal or illegal to win and this artile just reinforces that opinion for me..
check it out all..
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/football/patriots/view.bg?articleid=1070762&srvc=home&position=0
I apologize for missing all the c’s above my keypad is malfunctioning….
again read the article along with the latest in ESPN from other guys, it smells rotten big time….
YankeeConscience .
Arod lives in Miami and won’t be reporting to Tampa with Pitchers and Catchers. He works out at University of Miami.
just to let you guys know, some other destinations that pete didn’t mention:
lakeland hosts the tigers
winter haven hosts the indians
lake beuna vista (orlando basically) hosts the braves
kissimmie (15min from orlando) hosts the astros
these places are all 1hr to 1 and a half hours away from the Tampa area. i live in orlando so i take in quite a few games.
My brothers and I are going down 3/21-3/25. We have tickets to Fri and Monday night at Legends. Is Bradenton?(Pirates) worth a trip?
The last time we went was 2000 and we won the World Series, so hopefully we can bring back the good luck for this year.
xryanx:
Don’t forget ..
Bradenton: Hosts Pirates
Sarasota: Hosts Reds (Yanks play in Sarasota twice this year)
Sarasota is a great place, it’s a 1hr ride from Legends Field.
Here’s a recommendation. If you want a great prime steak, go to Flemings. I did the prime steak tour in Phoenix and checked out every prime house, including Ruth’s Chris and Capital Grille. Flemings won hands down. Try the Ribeye.
Majambo has spoken.
Stuart - -
Unlike the Mitchell Report, the Senator from Penn. has no ties to a professional football team.
this article does not talk about Spector and his love of the Eagles. Granted SPector is a n idiot and this is not a congressional matter , bot h points are irrelevant. The point is if the Pats videotaped the Rams walkthru that is illegal and a disgrace..
I am a ginat fan so should everything I say be discounted because I like the Giants??
Really if this is true then this is worse then the Blacksox and the run is a sham and that is why the NFL and others who
make $$$$from the league will not investigate.
When you come up with a reasonable reason why the NFL destroyed those other tapes tell me and after I get off the ground from laughing I will respond..There is no reason to ever destroy those type of tapes, none.
redsux and pat nation really use your brain for once, the world is not out to get you, yes the sux and pats are real good but really who cares!!!!
Bellichek in my opinion from what all I have read on him will do anything to win and I mean anything…..
Nick,
No, but Specter’s second biggest contributor is Comcast to the tune of $100K. Some might say that’s a conflict of interest considering that Comcast and the NFL are in a heated battle over broadcasting rights.
Pete you seriously made my day with the strip club comment, but try also checking out Historic Ybor City and for rollercoaster buffs Busch Gardens is great.
Anyone flying down definitely fly into the Tampa Airpot - best airport i’ve ever been to. Rent a car though guys, public transportation in Florida isn’t a tenth of what it is in NY (it took me 2 hours to get to the mall once).
There are TONS of places to get food right around the stadium so you shouldn’t have to go too far (watch out for Pacman Jones though, there’s a lot of strip clubs)
If you find it I would recommend Leroy Selmons for a nice dinner.
Berns steak house. i don’t drink, but it is alleged they have the worlds largest and best winecellar. so i hear.
I went to ST last year and had a blast. I saw Andy Pettitte and two young guys I didn’t recognize at Ruth’s Chris’s one night. But the best restaurant (voted # 1 by Zagat’s) in the area is Cafe Ponte, on Icot Blvd in Clearwater. The food was excellent, the service was great, and it was about a half the cost of Ruth’s Chris’s.
I’m going this year again for the first weekend. If I ever retire, I’m planning on spending the month in Tampa.
Interesting analysis of the Santana deal from Si’s Heyman:
Some good excerpts:
“If you can really fault the Twins, perhaps it was for failing to pounce on the Yankees’ offer of top young pitcher Phil Hughes, center fielder Melky Cabrera, pitching prospect Jeffrey Marquez and a fourth undetermined prospect when it was briefly on the table for the first couple days of the winter meetings back in early December. Instead, the Twins pressed for the Yankees to also include another top young pitcher, Ian Kennedy, going for the grand slam. If you want to hit the Twins, hit them for that.
The Yankees’ proposal, however fleeting, may have been the best one. Even the AL scout who defended the Twins thought so, saying, “I think the Yankees’ deal would have been better because those two guys (Hughes and Cabrera) already showed what they can do in the big leagues.”
When the Twins made a last pass at the Yankees on Tuesday, it was too late. So when Cashman told the Twins yet again that Hughes was off the table, the Twins went for the gusto, requesting that instead Cashman send them both Kennedy and Chien-Ming Wang to go with Cabrera and Marquez. Why not? By then, it was clear that there was only one place left to go, and that was the Mets.”
Jon Heyman’s story link
…Talk about a slow day!
NEED YOUR OPINIONS:
How long will it take for Phil Hughes to step up as the Yankees ace, and how many innings do you see coming from him this season, if he remains healthy.
Same question for Joba.
Their first allstar appearances will be when?
Mark: If Phil stays healthy, he should be ready at the start.
If Joba starts as well as he relieves he can be an all star this year.
Mark, notice her handle ia NOT Rebecca–REALIST Prime
I’ll say this. In their first 200+ MLB IPs
Santana’s ERA was around 4.25
Peavey’s ERA was around 4.30 (in the NL)
Although Webb and Oswalt were around 3 (NL)
(I’m guessing NL to AL ERA translation is +0.5 - +0.75)
Considering Wang has a career ERA of 3.74 and can pitch 200+ IPs, I think it will be 2009 or 2010 before either Joba or Phil is our official Ace.
I could happen this year in terms of ERA, but that is a pretty high expectation of kids who are 21 years old.
Phil should be kept to 150+/- IPs, which should include the PS. Joba maybe 10-20 IPs less. The formula is not exact but it is better to err on the side of caution.
Considering Andy’s ERA last year was 4.05, if the kids can do better then 4.0, I would consider that great.
Thanks Keith, I shot Lupica an email, I don’t expect a reply though.
OldYanksFan: What, rookies can’t be all stars?
“Phil should be kept to 150+/- IPs, which should include the PS. Joba maybe 10-20 IPs less. The formula is not exact but it is better to err on the side of caution.”
Shouldn’t pitch count be more of a factor than innings pitched since it tells us how much work the pitcher put into the game. Chien Ming Wang can easily throw 200 innnings with little fatigue since he is economical.
If they have an ERA of around 4.00 each that is a successful season for youngsters.
Mark
I`d give them both til `09 - `10 to start living up to expectations for a full season.
When at Legends Field, look across the road at Raymond James Stadium where the playoff road to the Super Bowl started for the G-Men when they knocked the Tampa Bay Buck-In-Ears out of the NFC playoffs.
Macdintons on South Howard is a great place. Fridays happy hour there is 10$ all you can drink. And on Thursdays its no cover, 1$ Miller Lites all night, and it has karaoke. My favorite spot down here. If your a fan of sushi theres a place called The Rack. They got good food, and I’ve also heard Jeter visits there often.
“Shouldn’t pitch count be more of a factor than innings pitched…”
Please don’t make them do advanced math.
I haven’t taken math since 16!
Rebecca,
You killed the thread. Again!
Haven’t come up with a menu for tomorrow. What’s everyone cooking up? i miss bernie’s doing his famous chili-cheese nachos. I’m thinking pulled pork sandwiches, but I need some inspiration/motivation to round out the menu.
Whatever I feel like eating!
I’m on my own tomorrow though my friend might show up later.
If you have a panini maker, make them!
Rebecca,
No one should be alone on Super Sunday.
Jennifer,
Are panini makers worth it? I was eyeing one at WS, but I thought it’s just another appliance that’ll clutter up the kitchen.
I made it down to ST last year for a week. I’ve heard good things about Berns, but I didn’t make it there. Went to The Palm though, which was very good and actually better than The Palm I’ve been to in other cities. I’d avoid Ybor City. Also, the traffic can be horrible, in particular there is one road/bridge(i think its route 275) that for some reason was easy to make a wrong turn on and you are stuck for a good hour before turning around and getting out of the traffic. I did find a decent public golf course, I think it’s called Rocky Point. Busch Gardens is fun too, though I’d imagine during the weekend it would be more crowded and less fun. But in the end, nothing compares to the experience you will have at Legends Field.
mel I have one and love it!! I take either fried or grilled chicken, with tomato, spinach, and cheese and grill it. It is sooo good!! You can make garlic bread on it too. There are alot of things you can make on it. I bought the Cuisinart one. It has a grill and griddle and you can set the temp.
Jennifer,
MMMM…What’s the best kind of bread to use?
Semolina, or something that has a hard crust.
mel-
The Mrs. is making her tortilla casserole, I may pitch in with some homemade fresh guacamole & a bunch of Pacificos.
Does anyone know if Brad Halsey is still in baseball, I just looked up his stats and he didn’t pitch last year.
Jennifer –
I have almost every kitchen gadget known to man (including a tortilla press), but so far have resisted getting a panini grill. You would really recommend it? Do you use it for anything else?
We have a christening to go to tomorrow in the early afternoon, then the post-christening luncheon, then heading home. So, not only are we going to be just me and my husband watching the superbowl (my daughter won’t watch), but there’s no time to make anything special!
I hope one year to make it down to Tampa for spring training. Our timing is not usually good - just before or just after for Orlando trips. 2 Years ago we did see a spring training game Braves vs. Reds at the Disney Sports complex (we belong to DVC).
Have fun tomorrow everyone!
I use it to make panini’s and grilled cheese. Thats it so far.
It is so easy to use. You heat it up, and than the sandwich is done in like 3 minutes!
OK, people, I hate to preach, but my no. 2 passion after the Yankees is food. I’m a foodie. So listen up — avoid national chains. You have been given good recommendations like Berns for steaks, Columbia for Spanish-Cuban, and chasing down good Cubano sandwiches. Also, there are lots of good seafood places in the Tampa-St. Pete area. Go local for good food.
But you can eat at PF Chang’s anywhere in the country. The “PF” stands for Paul Fleming, and you can eat at Flemings Steak House anywhere in the country. He also owns Pei Wei Asian Diner. Eat at these places in New York and New Jersey, not when you visit Tampa!
That is all…
Buddy,
Pacificos-beer? And what’s in the casserole? Round dish or other?
belicheat is a genius?
mel: I’ve got sooooo much work though, as do a lot of my friends…I have one friend that, like me, likes football and not the Patriots, and I’d watch with him, but I think he’s working.
So I’m on my own.
Guys, come om. I really don’t enjoy killing the threads…
a little late, but jbro, the sushi chef from the rack left and is now working at hawks on bay to bay right by bayshore. good wings, and now really good sushi
I wish I could have the last two hours of my life back. Just watched “Space Balls” and it was so bad. But like a train wreck, I couldn’t keep my eyes off of it.
WSR: Really, I’ve only been back at school for 2 weeks now. Thanks for the warning.
The whole PF Changs recomendation was only because Jeter eats there often and you might run into him. I met him his trainor and his father there last semester. Other then that, I completely agree with trying stuff you can’t get anywhere.
mel: b-b-b-but it’s mel brooks!
Another recomendation for a quick cheap lunch near legends would Five Guys. While they are a chain that is blowing up on the east coast, there are alot of people that dont know about it. Best burger you’ll ever eat. Its just West of Dale Mabry on W. Kennedy Blvd. About a 1/2 mile from legends. And then theres ofcourse a Sonic which you dont see up in the tri state. They serve breakfast all day, great hangover food.
mel,
why?
And on the avoiding chain restaurants in Tampa thing, let me give another plug for one of my all time favorites, Cafe Ponte.
So while we’re talking road trips, any other recommendations for the regular season?
I know people have talked about going to Baltimore (which I totally agree with - it’s a great park).
I also really like the Jake, in Cleveland - although I realize Cleveland’s not everyone’s favorite destination. But there are lots of nice hotels within walking distance of the park, and so is the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame.
I’m thinking of trying Toronto and Boston this year. Never been to Toronto. Been to Boston, but never to Fenway. Any advice, or recommendations for other trips I should try? I can only do weekend trips this year though, so that limits the options considerably.
LETS GO GIANTS!!!!!!
Rebecca,
Yes. I appreciate Mel Brooks. Blazing Saddles was good (I think, we’re talking childhood memory here). Can you believe that Mel Brooks is married to Julie Andrews? Talk about odd couples.
Clare,
Why? Why couldn’t I take my eyes off of it? It was actually funny. Still bad, but funny.
…Mel Brooks is married to Julie Andrews?!
…Dude, they have got to have some really, really interesting children.
mel,
no, I actually meant why would you even start watching it, but I’ve spent my share of time watching bad movies - including ones I’ve already seen before at 3 am on a work night.
apparently the Pats cheated in SB XXXVI too!
http://members.yahoo.com/interests/K9-1602421107?.oc=s&.ar=4&.p=y&.sq=&.tt=500&.ss=80
sorry http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080203/ap_on_sp_fo_ne/fbn_super_bowl_patriots_taping_allegation
Clare,
Looking at the schedule to see where the interleague games are (PNC’s a little far?) and what do I see? We end the season at Fenway Park. Ugh. That’s such an uptight series. Won’t be able to enjoy it AT ALL.
Hi all,
Coincidentally I was in Tampa today and did a drive by on Legends field. The new picnic area looks to be almost done.
Went to the International Plaza that Pete mentioned. You NYers might be used to the high prices there but for those of us used to Outlet shopping, Holy Cow!
If you want a great steak at a reasonable price try Sam Seltzers just up Dale Mabry from the field.
If you want to spend more and love wine, try Bern’s. If you go, take a tour of the wine room and have the homemade macadamia nut ice cream for dessert. You won’t be disappointed.
Rebecca-
Mel Brooks was married to Anne Bancroft for 41 years until she died in 2005. Where did you hear about him marrying Julie Andrews?
mel-
Tortilla casserole is rectangular with tortillas, cheese, beans, olives, onions, veggie meat, enchilada sauce.
Pacifico beer absolutely, complete with Lime.
mel,
The end of year series is the one I’m going to. I’m hoping the Yanks will have clinched the division by then so it’ll be meaningless.
Otherwise, you’re right, it will be really, really tense.
PNC is supposed to be a nice park, but that’s a mid-week series, right?
Mel Brooks is married to Anne Bancroft (my mom grew up with her). I think Julie Andrews is married to Blake Edwards.
pat,
Are you still planning on going to Legends field this month?
Clare-
Don’t you live in Texas?, the Yanks are playing at the Astrodome in June on a weekend. Lol
Jbro,
Agree on the 5 guys. We got one last year in Jacksonville and my wife and I reslly missed that place from when we lived in Va. I hear people rave about Fatburger which we have in Clearwater, but 5 guys is much better.
pat-
Mel Brooks was married to Anne Bancroft, she passed away in 2005.
Buddy–See Mel’s post above. Anne Bancroft makes more sense IMO…
Buddy,
wow, good memory. I’m actually in NY for a year (YAY!), but I am planning on going to the Houston series. No longer the astrodome - they now play in Minute Maid (formerly Enron) Park. It’s a nice little park, basically a Camden clone. Has a cheesy little train that goes by when the Atros hit a homerun.
Rebecca-
I’m sorry, guess mel is smoking the wacky tobaccy tonight.
I just looked on the Twins message board. They are crazy over there. Check it out.
Clare-
I was just joshing about the Astrodome, do they call it the juice as a nickname?
My Bad, guys!!
jennifer-
I could swear Brad Halsey pitched in Oakland for the major league club at some point.
mel-
No problem just pass it when you are done.
Buddy,
LOL, no idea, but I don’t think anyoone or anything was the juice as a nickname these days.
Yeah he did in 2006, I didn’t see anything for 2007.
I knew she was married to some crazy director dude.
Buddy,
Nice try. No guessing? Maui Wowie? Kona Gold? lol. No smoke, no drugs, no tats. My only vice is sports! I’m very boring.
OJ Simpson was called the juice by Howard Cosell all the time.
I was wondering about Halsey too. It’s funny to watch the classics (the dive game for Halsey) and wonder what happened to some of them.
Was Halsey the one that threw at Jorge, and Jorge went after him?
Buddy,
Sorry, I must be smoking what mel is - that should have said wants the juice as a nickname, not was, referring of course to OJ.
Wait.
Guys.
Is it me, or right now is this blog more female than male?
This could be historic.
Clare
I’m going to be there for 2 days on business and the goal is to try and set up my meetings to get to Legends for a morning. It’s during the 1st few days of pitchers and catchers reporting so not sure how much action will be happening.
Buddy
I forgot she had passed until I read your post. Did Mel Brooks remarry Julie ANdrews?
Another one is Brandon Claussen, No statistics for 2007.
Buddy,
This is not the first time the women have taken over the comments.
pat,
Hope it works out. Someone said earlier that Legends was open free from 10-1 during Feb.
What are we talking about? Is it no longer Minute Maid Park?
And a cool name is Juice Williams of Illinois, early draft entrant.
Clare: Except I’m Rebecca
Rebecca, not buddy, sorry!
Yeah, I noticed the gender thing a while ago, and was going to ask if the rest of you found the strip club thing as icky as I did. I really don’t want to know if a guy is into strip clubs (and I wish I didn’t know that about ARod).
Halsey was injured all last year & filed a grievance against the A’s for a misdiagnosis. He threw at Dave Roberts in 2004 that almost incited a brawl against the Blow Sox, not sure about Jorge though.
ok, so mel passed it to Clare who passed it to pat.
Maybe I’m thinking Ted Lilly, I know it was a former Yankee, and Jorge went after him.
Yes there all women here besides me. Maybe all the guys are at a strip club.
Clare,
The only thing the girls find icky/inappropriate here are:
1. Clown hair
2. Jeter’s escapades (he’s getting a little old)
3. Using rape to describe a team getting fleeced.
4. Naked pullups
Too bad about Halsey. I read about a minor leaguer (whose name I can’t remember) who tried to play all year with a broken rib that the team had told him was a muscle strain. Getting misdiagnosed is a problem for anyone, but when you’re trying to make the big leagues it must be worse.
Although Legends Field is a state-of-the-art venue, another good one is Brighthouse Network Field in Clearwater where the Phillies play.
From the airport, take State Road 60 (west) or the Courtney Campbell Causeway, across Tampa Bay and continue straight to U.S. 19-north. Take a right and get in the left lane to Druid St. Take a left to Old Coachman Road and the field is right there.
Yankees are always sold out there so a scalper will have to do but they’re reasonable.
mel,
Yeah, Jeter is getting kindof old. Maybe it’s just me about the strip clubs, but I just think it’s so lame.
Also, I used to live next to one, and getting woken up at 2 in the morning by drunken frat boys (one of whom peed on my house) made me incredibly hostile to the industry (leaving aside the gender politics of it all).
Actually I find the clown hair funny more than anything!
The naked pull ups, on the other hand, are something I could have lived my entire life without knowing..
Rebecca,
I’m with you there. In fact Johnny is a walking case of TMI -especially if you’ve read his bood (which I did, but only after he became a Yankee).
Oh, yeah, and Roger’s white butt is another image that’s been seared into the brain.
I think it must drive the serious baseball guys here nuts that females talk about all kinds of nothing! But we come here for some insight and the latest baseball news. At least we don’t moan and complain about Yankee things that are beyond our control.
And the testosterone starts flying and they start calling each other names!
Mel
Calling someone a cancer is on my icky list too.
Clare
I was the only woman in my company for many years and I was always treated as one of the guys. At a business dinner, a client had been dropping hints about going to a strip club. My boss pulled me aside and said he would take him and I could call it a night. I was pissed that I was being dismissed during what was supposed to be a business meeting so I told him if he was going, so was I. I had never been to a strip club before and wasn’t sure what to expect. The place we went to was very upscale and was topless, not nude but it wasn’t creepy at all. I was surprised by how many women were there. I figured the only ones would be the entertainment.
Clare: Heh, if you think Johnny’s TMI it’s probably a good thing you don’t read my LiveJournal.
Hey, some of the “serious” baseball guys talk about nothing too (Except for SJ44 - he always has something interesting to say).
We should start a female LoHud Yankees’ club.
It’s pat!
Sorry, that was my favoritest sketch on SNL for years. Chris was the significant “other”.
I’ve wanted to ask you about it, but I figured that was inappropriate.
Rebecca,
I do read and like your blog.
pat,
That took guts. It’s amazing how much of a boy’s club some jobs still are. Glad you refused to be excluded.
Hey Buddy,
Did we scare you off?
pat,
I admire you for standing your ground.
However, I think it’s icky for couples to go to clubs together.
pat,
I admire you for standing your ground.
However, I think it’s icky for couples to go to clubs together.
Clare–Aye, you read my Yankees’ blog.
My personal blog, http://fireroseboudicc.livejournal.com, contains the intimate details of my every day life. It’s…ehm…well, let’s just say it’s not necessarily for little kiddies.
I’m still here, just reading Rebecca’s blog.
Sorry, that was my favoritest sketch on SNL for years. Chris was the significant “other”.
————————————————–
Didn’t pat date Terry or Teri as well.
I live in Tampa–same neighborhood as Jeter and Posada. If I had an “event” at my house, would any of you attend?
The Colombia Restaurant is a good show, but the food is over-rated. Bern’s is great but expensive. In my opinion, Mis en Place is the best restaurant in town. Channelside can be a fun area with decent food.
Rebecca,
I couldn’t get the link to work.
Hey, has anyone heard from GreenBeret7 lately? I haven’t seen any comments lately and I hope he’s doing okay.
More youthful stupidity than guts. I thought he wouldn’t go when I said I wasn’t going back to the hotel, but he called my bluff and I couldn’t back down then.
Clare-
He was here a few days ago, but not as often like he has been in the past.
pat, still, good for you.
I once had a guy at work ask me if he could submit a receipt for reimbursement from a strip club. Maybe that used to be a legitimate business/entertainment expense, but not anymore.
Rebecca, got the link to work, but my old eyes can’t take the color scheme.
I find it really hard to read anything online against a black background.
Thanks Buddy. If you’re on when he is again, please say hello for me.
Clare: Hah, it’s okay, I understand. The really juicy stuff–like the part where I hear my parents engage in activities that I’d rather not know about–are friend’s only entries, anyhow.
Buddy: I hope you’re enjoying it! =D (…err, which one?)
Rebecca-
Both, you are sure your not a Gemini?
Rebecca,
I’m afraid to check out your personal blog. I want to see your Angelic side, not your Devilish one!
Clare-
Will do.
Rebecca-
I enjoyed your open letter to Bush, you were more cordial than I would have been.
Buddy: Aries and proud of it! Also, the letter to Bush is the nice one. You should see some of my locked entries!
Mel: MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH Nah, I’m mostly angelic…just have some very strong political opinions, a bad digestive tract, too much coursework, a very flawed love life and issues with certain people in my life.
Oh crap.
I scared everyone off, didn’t I?
I wonder why all of a sudden no Patriots news.Even the one about the spygate and the 2002 Spying on the rams.And how the NFL finally gonna go to WAshing D.C to tak about why they burnt the tapes.
Man all of a sudden Pete wants to talk about basball now.
Rebecca,
So you’re a sci-fi fan too? I don’t think I knew Robert Jordan died. Did he ever finish the Wheel of Time series? I read the first 7 or so, but then couldn’t keep up with it. I’d forget too much of the story before the next book came out. I’ve heard it described as Lord of the Rings with the addition of real female characters. As a LOTR fan, would you agree?
Rebecca,
Nope, you just gave us something new to read. I’d never been on livejournal/facebook/myspace, etc. I think it’s one of the biggest generational differences - the people who grow up sharing things on those sites, and those of us who barely know what they are.
Or maybe Pete’s posting about baseball cos it’s, you know, February?
Clare: I’ve never actually read Robert Jordan! I just know a lot of my friends had, so I shared the link.
Lord of the Rings is a great story, but Tolkien is horribly archaic in his language and it makes it a task to get through.
Neil Gaiman right now might be my favorite, he does urban fantasy.
About Livejournal:
It really is amazing. My friends from high school, well, my two closest ones are now in completley different places–R. is at Wellselly (which I can’t spell) and V. is a grad student at Dartmouth. My other friends, not from Syracuse, live in places as diverse as England, Wales, the Netherlands, California, Florida, Canada, other areas of Upstate NY…and that’s not even listing the people I know only online!
Livejournal is our primary method of keeping each other updated on our lives, when it’s not feasible to call up or when we’re not on AIM/MSN at the same time.
The most amazing thing, IMO, is that having been on Livejournal since November 2003, I have a record of my life from my senior year of HS till now. I can see myself grow up…I can see my writing mature (which for a writer is a sacred thing), I can see the goals of my life go from getting into college to getting into grad school (heh), I can see how my interests shift, and then return to a starting point…
I get scared sometimes because I take LJ for granted, more or less, now…and then I realize that without it, I probably wouldn’t know anything about what my friends were up to, and i wouldn’t have a place to basically use as my own personal psychiatrist (I was really sick a couple summers ago, and it really was my friends, through LJ, that got me through it, free of charge)…
And there are communities for everything, too.
There’s http://yankeesfans.livejournal.com, http://knitting.livejournal.com, http://ask_a_nurse.livejournal.com, http://ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com, http://syracuse_uni.livejournal.com …basically, whatever it is, there’s a community for it. Some have only five or six members, some have fifty or sixty thousand, it’s incredible.
It really is an amazing thing. I don’t know if we truly realize how lucky we are that we have it.
C’mon Pete talks about the Patriots all the time.He hasn’t talk about the biggest news of someone who worked for the Patriotsvideotaping the other teams.And it’s not the end of February.
If the Patriots win the Superbowl you’ll see Pete in a pictue with Brady for the Next two weeks.
Clare: I’ve never actually read Robert Jordan! I just know a lot of my friends had, so I shared the link.
Lord of the Rings is a great story, but Tolkien is horribly archaic in his language and it makes it a task to get through.
Neil Gaiman right now might be my favorite, he does urban fantasy.
About Livejournal:
It really is amazing. My friends from high school, well, my two closest ones are now in completley different places–R. is at Wellselly (which I can’t spell) and V. is a grad student at Dartmouth. My other friends, not from Syracuse, live in places as diverse as England, Wales, the Netherlands, California, Florida, Canada, other areas of Upstate NY…and that’s not even listing the people I know only online!
Livejournal is our primary method of keeping each other updated on our lives, when it’s not feasible to call up or when we’re not on AIM/MSN at the same time.
The most amazing thing, IMO, is that having been on Livejournal since November 2003, I have a record of my life from my senior year of HS till now. I can see myself grow up…I can see my writing mature (which for a writer is a sacred thing), I can see the goals of my life go from getting into college to getting into grad school (heh), I can see how my interests shift, and then return to a starting point…
I get scared sometimes because I take LJ for granted, more or less, now…and then I realize that without it, I probably wouldn’t know anything about what my friends were up to, and i wouldn’t have a place to basically use as my own personal psychiatrist (I was really sick a couple summers ago, and it really was my friends, through LJ, that got me through it, free of charge)…
And there are communities for everything, too.
There’s http://yankeesfans.livejournal.com, knitting.livejournal.com, ask_a_nurse.livejournal.com, ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com, syracuse_uni.livejournal.com …basically, whatever it is, there’s a community for it. Some have only five or six members, some have fifty or sixty thousand, it’s incredible.
It really is an amazing thing. I don’t know if we truly realize how lucky we are that we have it.
Rebecca,
That’s cool. It’s such a big part of your life, and I didn’t even know what it was.
One of my favorite things about science fiction is the exploration of how technology changes culture - and this is a great example.
Have you ever read C.J. Cherryh? My all-time favorite author. I haven’t read Gaiman, but I’ve heard good things. I’ll have to try him.
Clare: Nah, I generally prefer things that involve swords…
George RR Martin is a personal favorite. Very adult, but very, very, very good.
Oh yeah, I’m a big Martin fan, at least of his Ice and Fire series, but he’s another one that is taking forever to finish the series.
How about Lois McMaster Bujold? She’s got swords in some of hers.
Nope on Bujold.
A Song of Ice and Fire is made of awesome. I’m a fan of House Targaryen, what about yourself? You strike me as more of a Stark kind of gal, but then again, I don’t know you outside of the blog!
A fatburger was just opened at home(LI) never got there. Have no intentions because Five Guys also just opened up in Levittown.
If you never been to five guys google it, there might be one close to wherever you live. I definatly recommend it.
Rebecca,
I likes the Starks (some of them) - particularly the direwolfs, but I don’t remember all the houses. I’m going to need to reread the series before the next one comes out.
Try Bujold - not the Miles Vorkosigans (although those are my favorites), but the Curse of Chalion or the latest ones (the name escapes me at the moment).
Also, have you tried Jennifer Fallon? A little like Martin.
Clare: Yeah, I know what you mean. The main ones are Arryn · Baratheon · Bolton · Frey · Greyjoy · Lannister · Martell · Stark · Targaryen · Tully · Tyrell
Just scanning through all the posts. What a montage of garbage! Good thing the only sport that matters is coming back soon.
Okay, well if the trolls are coming out, it’s probably time to call it a night.
Rebecca, maybe we can continue the book discussion sometime on your blog. Good night, and go Giants!
Clare: Pfft, what’s a little troll? (My blog is always open for business! Just put a new baseball novel update up, you should totally check it out if you get a chance
(shameless self plug) )
Just to echo what SJ, Andy and Thurman said:
Bern’s is fantastic. The dessert room is a real treat. You can also arrange to get a tour of the kitchen and wine cellar. I think they’ve got one of the biggest wine cellars in the country.
They’ve also got a nearby warehouse where they store a ton more - and can transport bottles to the cellar as needed
Columbia is fantastic. Depending on what night you go, you can see a Flamenco show.
The paella is to die for - just order it right away - it takes about 30 minutes to prepare.
There’s two very good cigar shops near Columbia. You can buy them there, and/or smoke them on the premises. One of the shop owners was there from Cuba via Union City, NJ - next to my home town.
There’s also a couple of excellent places to get Cuban food not far from Legends - not very posh, but very tasty and cheap.
Comida cubano…
Ahora recuerdo mucho de mis clases del español!
Pete,
Not to go off topic, but….
FYI. In 2006, Time Magazine named Arlen Specter one of the 10 best U.S. Senators. He is one of the most well respected and effective Senators that this country has ever produced.
With that said, I think you are right, the spygate thing should be left alone.
Lord of the Rings is a great story, but Tolkien is horribly archaic in his language and it makes it a task to get through.
This I cannot understand Becca. Tolien was the easiest read in my teens.
Tolkien, sorry
I’m going down to Sarasota to visit my Grandparents during Spring Training. My Grandpa bought tickets to the Yankees-Reds game in Sarasota on the 14th. Should be fun, my first ST game ever.
Hey Pete, stop bitching. The Pats cheated so you need to relax. We want to hear about the Yankees not your pathetic feelings on the Patriots. Thanks chief.
Can’t believe the Patriots taped the Rams final walk-through before the Superbowl. If they did that to the Rams they did it to the Panthers, Eagles and hopefully not the Giants.
my favorite spring training park is al lang field. it’s on the bay,and the yankees of ruth and gehrig had their spring training there so there’s yankee ghosts in the place, and there’s a street nearby that goes on for blocks with plaques in the sidewalk for yankee players of that generation and more. it’s a nice walk for yankee fans of all generations to walk. al lang is a great place to see a yankee spring training game.
from an article:
St. Petersburg also offers fans the chance to learn about Florida’s history as a spring hardball hotbed. Baseball Boulevard is a self-guided tour that covers 10 city blocks between Al Lang Field and Tropicana Field. Yeah, traveling south for spring training takes on a whole new meaning for Devil Rays players. Anyway, for visiting fans the path offers home-plate-shaped historic markers for every year from 1914 to the present.
• These markers recall glorious moments in St. Petersburg baseball history, like when the Yankees and Cardinals met in the 1942 World Series after sharing the same spring ballpark.
• And sad moments, like when Lou Gehrig collapsed during a 1939 exhibition game, foreshadowing the end of his streak of consecutive games played.
• And zany moments, like when a trainer parboiled Joe DiMaggio’s ankle during a spring treatment, causing the Yankee Clipper to miss the first month of the 1936 season.
Go to Mons Venus and you stand a chance of seeing Warren Sapp, his fur coat, and his entourage throwing 20’s at the strippers. What a hoot.
Just getting better and better …
http://slidingintohome.blogspot.com/2008/02/new-stadium-update.html
Big Three 08
February 2nd, 2008 at 8:40 pm
I made it down to ST last year for a week. I did find a decent public golf course, I think it’s called Rocky Point.
Thanks Big Three,
I’ll look into that place.
All the people talking about money and Santana’s price too high..
I’ll be laughing on the outside but crying on the inside when CC Sabathia laughs HIS way to the sum of 6 years 150 million…
.. and I would take Santana of CC without second thought.
NO way would I give CC 6/150. He isn’t worth it, look at his numbers!
http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/sabatc.01.shtml
He also jumped from 192 innings to 241 innings, mark my words this will be a down year for him 4.5 era.
Anybody seen Bonds ….. Barry Bonds ? No sightings ? No interest ? - - no surprise.
Going to be leaving soon for the day and I just wanted to wish everyone a Great Super Bowl Sunday! May the game be great and the outcome favorable!
Marc: Ever try to read The Silmarillion?
I wouldn’t want Sabathia—look at how he pitched in the postseason–the games the Yankees lost against him, they didn’t lose because he pitched well. If anything, I’d rather get Fausto Carmona…
CC is a pretty good pitcher, I don’t see his ERA jumping to 4.5, he has gotten better & better each year. He will be 28 in July, so he’s younger than Johan. He won’t command as much as Santana either. He will definitely worth a look & may not be traded b/c the Indians will be in the pennant race all year.
Carmona can’t be had unless you are talking about trading some really good young players…
“I wouldn’t want Sabathia—look at how he pitched in the postseason–the games the Yankees lost against him, they didn’t lose because he pitched well. If anything, I’d rather get Fausto Carmona…”
Well, Rebecca…is Wang a good pitcher still, despite his post-season performance?
As for Carmona…he needs to put together more of a track record before I’d want to expensively acquire him. Also…he has many years to free agency, so it’s pointless to compare the two.
Ybor City…The Columbia, great Sangria. Outstanding Mojitos. There’s one in Sarasota too, at St. Armand’s Circle. I highly recommend.
whozat: Game one for Wang this year was simply a bad game. Game four, I’m thinking the three days’ rest probably has something to do with it.
Wang pitched well in the ‘06 postseason, so you know that he can do it.
Buddy Biancalana:
” He won’t command as much as Santana either.”
Say that if you will, but as Santana proved.. it’s the market that determines the price.
CC Sabathia will not be much cheaper than Santana. I only pray our young arms give us the depth we need. I’m not going to keep saying it was a mistake not to get Santana, but it absolutely without a doubt was.
Jennifer:
“NO way would I give CC 6/150.”
I wouldn’t either, but I would have given it to Johan. Again, it’s the market that determines the price.
Big Three 08: Rock Point is the name of that golf course.
You do drive through a pretty run down part of town to get there. So if you think your lost your probably not.
A small piece of Yankee history is smack in the middle of my Campus(U Tampa). Its a sign that marks where Babe Ruth’s longest Home Run landed.
Rebecca: You should read ROT3K sometime; history + war = win
(free transcript of Brewitt-Taylor’s translation can be found at http://www.threekingdoms.com/book.aspx )
(well, close enough to history…70-90% historically accurate, depending on who you ask)
I’ll hold off on Sabathia for another year…see if he can keep it up in his contract year.
As it is right now, I’m seeing between Zito and Santana money, so about 20 million a year. If he does pretty well this year…well, Santana money wouldn’t be out of reach then, wouldn’t it.
Blargh: I actually had to read it for a history class I took fall ‘06! It was pretty good, though eventually all the names confused me a wee bit…
You got to read it for class? Sweet deal; wish I had taken such a class (my Chinese history classes had me read excerpts from the Analects and the Dao De Jing instead, meh)
Names weren’t bad to me since I am Chinese, so I’m used to it
But it’s really not hard once you get into the mindset that family names come before personal names; then it’s same as any other set of names.
Blargh: Yeah, it’s just that there were a lot of them!
\Then again, I came name all the English monarchs fr