Clemens: I didn’t do it (Part 6)
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Feb 05, 2008 
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Roger Clemens is either very sure he didn’t use PEDs or he’s getting terrible legal advice.
Clemens emerged from a five and a half hour deposition with the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee this afternoon and again issued a strong denial.
“It was great to be able to tell them what I’ve been saying all along – that I’ve never used steroids or growth hormone,” he said.
That makes it six Clemens has uncategorically denied PED use:
1. Statement after the Mitchell Report
2. Video after the Mitchell Report
3. To Mike Wallace on 60 Minutes
4. At his press conference in Houston
5. By filing a lawsuit against Brian McNamee
6. Today at Congress.
If he’s lying and somebody can prove it, Clemens will be in trouble. Congress tends to prosecute those who lie to them.
At some point, the onus will shift to George Mitchell and McNamee to prove their case. Can they do it? That’s the question we don’t have the answer for. Mitchell’s investigative methods leave much to be desired and McNamee is a flawed witness given his background and motives.
We (the fans, media, etc.) can’t have it both ways.
We can’t rip these athletes everytime they are accused of using PED’s AND rip them if they aggressively deny it and seek to declare their innocence. That’s what is happening with Clemens at this time.
I am not saying you are doing it Pete but, I hear/read plenty of people in the national media who are all over Clemens for seeking to clear his name.
All I have heard from radio talk show hosts/idiots during all this PED nonsense is, “If (insert a name) is innocent, then why doesn’t he sue”?
Well, Clemens has done just that and he gets ripped for it.
I am not naive. If he is caught lying to Congress (and everybody else for that matter) he’s got bigger problems than whether or not he gets into the HOF.
However, if he is telling the truth, then a whole lot of people in the national media, who CRUSHED this guy when the Mitchell Report came out, owe him a HUGE apology.
So far, it seems to me he is taking the actions one would take if they are falsely accused of something.
For this sake, and for those of us who want to believe him, I hope he is telling the truth.
i always thought the bat-throwing was roid rage.
When do the Patriots hearings start? Mitchell can not cover up the Pats misdeeds like he did for the Red Sox. Great Giants parade and City Hall ceremony today. Pete, I know you will appreciate Spitzer’s comments.
Pete,,you say if he is lying….. But where is the “If he is telling the truth” ???…..Me thinks YOU think he is lying,,,,right ?
Very good, intelligent points SJ44. Considering all the ripping, crushing and other nonsense that’s been hurled around, I’ll just wait ’til they get to the bottom of it before speculating any further. Nothing I can do about it here at my computer … besides, I should be working.
Going back to one of the later comments from the previous thread, I am also cautiously optimistic on Moose. I always liked him, that he was just a notch below being an ace isn’t a flaw because he had been a horse for a long time. I remember watching highlights of his near-perfect game against Boston on TV and I remember being at the stadium when he beat Pedro and the Red Sox by 1 run, matching Pedro K-for-K for 13 K’s. Kept the Yanks in the game in ’04 to set up Aaron Boone’s HR too. So he was clutch often enough, and he was clutch against the Sox. Fact is he struggled a lot last year, which probably bothered him more than anyone else. Can he still come back and be a league average starter? Is there enough in the tank for him to have the kind of year the team needs from him while the young pitchers transition into being the killer rotation of the next several years? Will his one remaining year be enough to fill that gap? I hope so on all counts. If it doesn’t happen, I’m sure he’d still have made his best effort.
jk: That whole thing is a joke. Bozo Specter gets huge contributions from Comcast, which is at odds with the NFL over the NFL Network. He’s also a yahoo Eagles season ticket holder who calls into sports talk radio shows and complains when they lose.
He’s tweaking the NFL because he can, likely at the behest of Comcast. He’s tweaking the Pats because he’s sore they beat the Eagles.
It’s embarrassing that our elected officials are spending time with football videotapes and baseball players.
Don vito: I honestly don’t know what I think. I’d like to believe Clemens but I’ve been burned before believing these guys. For a lot of players, taking PEDs was casual and accepted.
“i always thought the bat-throwing was roid rage.”
Why does everyone keep saying that?
maybe because its a plausable explanation for him throwing a bat at the baserunner?
I really hope Roger is telling the truth. Because if he isn’t he’ll likely be going to jail for lying. It would be a “country” club prision, but nothing like he is used to.
Pete, I know it is a joke but I want to see Belichick squirm under the Klieg lights!
“i always thought the bat-throwing was roid rage.â€
Why does everyone keep saying that?
Why does everyone keep saying it SINCE the steroids thing came up …no one said it before this story came out. People used other excuses ..anger, he was a dope, he was classless, etc…not steroids. Of course now everyone jumps on the bandwagon steroid theory.
I have no idea if he’s guilty or not..but..until it’s proven beyond the word of one sleezy guy I’ll give Clemens the benefit of the doubt.
Go Yankees 2008 !!!
That would be “sleazy” .
Go Yankees 2008 !!!
When asked about the Pats video taping on Fox, I think it was Ron Jaworski (not 100% sure) who said he was OK with it.
Seriously, the taping thing is a non-issue to me. I know someone who made the Raiders several years ago. So I asked him how many teams tape other teams like the Pats did. He said every team does it. It’s real easy to plant someone (or several people) who looks like a typical fan in the stands. As far as I now there’s no rule in the NFL that says a fan can’t being video camera to remember his/her game experience. It’s real easy to hide/point a few microphones from the first couple rows or even on the bench, with a few cameras zooming in from elsewhere. Other high tech tricks? C’mon … what do you all think?
Taped pre-game walk-throughs? My friend said he’d be surprised if there was a team who hadn’t taped or been taped at one time or another.
As far as I’m concerned the Pats didn’t do anything that the rest of the NFL hasn’t done. They just happened to get caught and raked over the coals for it.
Considering (reasonably so) that the rest of the league more than likely does the same thing then the Pats did, the Pats really were that good of a team this year.
But apparently not quite good enough.
(Sorry Pete)
Football season is finished and baseball will soon take center stage.
With a little dust settled some since the last dog & pony show, the next phase will get wrapped up sooner rather than later.
Mitchell’s former cronies will allow him all the wiggle room to go out the side door unscathed. McNamee and Radomski will look less than credible leaving the true culpit (Selig) left to twist in the wind until 2012.
Hi Pete,
How can you dismiss Spygate (the enhanced edition) as a joke?
Well, ok, I agree with you that the fact that Congress is wasting resources think about it is a joke, but ignoring that:
When you conduct a private investigation, and then announce the punishment to the public, and then refuse to talk about what the evidence was, and then destroy said evidence… that smells terrible.
Add in one assistant golf pro presently located in Hawaii, recurring allegations of cheating in a meaningful way prior to the Pats first Super Bowl victory, and a coach that is very secretive with information. Now turn on the heat and stir the pot… well I think we may have a really thick stew to chew on over the next few weeks/months.
Have you read Easterbrook’s columns on ESPN.com about this?
Here is the most recent one: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn.....ortCat=nfl
ranting guy does it make it right?
Plausible? So Delmon Young is using roids. Has nothing to do with frustration? Ok, got it, Thanks.
Ranting Guy,
I agree with you on the sideline taping of signals during the game. If the Pats went a step too far, it is not a disaster — everyone steals signals and I am sure others have used video.
BUT, if the Pats taped the Rams walk through before the 2002 Super Bowl — that could be HUGE. Now we are not talking about something that was being done in plain view. In a close game, if the Pats knew what to expect in the Red Zone — which is what is being accused now — that could have certainly changed the outcome of the game.
This is more like stealing the other team’s playbook (wasn’t that a Brady Bunch episode?) as well as the Coaches notes on exactly which plays will be used when. No. This would be much worse.
Back to Mitchell: The real problem here is that Congress should have had Mitchell provide detailed testimony about his relationship with the federal prosecutors and investigators and his interviews of McNamee before they ever brought in any ball players. They should have also subpoenaed any recording or notes from the conversations between Mitchell and McNamee. If necessary, they should have interviewed any of Mitchell’s people who spoke to McNamee as well. All of this material should have been made public.
If, after examining and disclosing all this evidence, there remained sufficient grounds to believe that Clemens improperly used controlled substances, then you bring him in with McNamee, Andy and Chubby Chucky.
“Congress tends to prosecute those who lie to them.”
If I recall correctly, there were a few individuals in the employ of the Justice Department who have yet to be called to task over their “fuzzy memories” while testifying in the US Attorney scandal.
Jennifer – I totally agree that doesn’t make it right. But there wasn’t a net advantage to it and no other teams can really complain about it.
It’s not like the Black Sox scandal of 1919 with guys throwing games, so it’s not as much of a disgrace. And it’s not like spying at the poker table in a casino. If a quarterback calls an audible, messes with the timing of his count, changes his signals, or the defense fakes a blitz, the other team still has to react on the fly and actually make the play.
Would the game be better off without it? Absolutely. How do they police it? I have no clue. But until they can, as long as there’s a level playing field there’s no relative advantage one team has over another.
JG,
Unfortunately, it is actually the Justice Department who does the prosecuting (after a referral is made by Congress).
It is also unfortunate that it is near impossible to prosecute someone for not remembering something (even if you are pretty sure he remembers it).
A lot easier to prosecute ball players.
C
Taping a walk through or stealing a play book before a game, now those are a little harder to do and would have different meaning.
Still, teams do get away with it.
Is it therefore right?
Still, nope.
“as long as there’s a level playing field”
What if there isn’t a level playing field?
You are assuming that “everybody does it” and that we know the full extent of what “it” is. We don’t know either of those things right now. We only know what we were told and that evidence was destroyed for no reason and then we were told to forget about it.
I seriously doubt that Clemens would put himself into legal jeopardy by lying to Congress about his alleged steroid use. If he testified that he never used them under threat of perjury, then I’m willing to believe he’s telling the truth. With Marion Jones going to jail and Bonds about to, I don’t think he’d be dumb enough to follow suit.
No one but a hack like Bud Selig would appoint a guy like Mitchell(with conflict of interest written all over him) to oversee this investigation. A sloppy investigation, witnesses handed to him, and they all had reasons to lie. But Mitchell completed his Yankee witch hunt much to Selig’s delight. No hard or collaborative evidence. This type of investigation is known as a slash & burn job.
The Mitchell report is the real disgrace to baseball & it’s commissioner.
Peter
You have quite a double standard going on:
A. Patriots caught cheating, you say no big deal.
B. Clemens accused by one guy of cheating and risking his freedom to defend himself and you state he is guilty.
Wow
Did anyone really think that Roger Clemens would break down and admit to PED use, publicly, regardless that this particular testimony is behind closed doors? I sure didn’t, despite believing that he did use PEDs on and off since 1996.
Regardless, IF — big IF — McNamee was smart enough to keep a journal of his dealings with baseball players, either as a personal trainer or as a team employee, and if it’s a day-to-day record that mentions what is recorded in the Mitchell Report…
Clemens is screwed.
Otherwise this whole exercise is a big waste of time, money and reputation, even though Clemens knew ahead of time his name was in the Mitchell Report, even though he got a lawyer before the Report was released, and even though he said nothing after it was released until the strangely produced 60 Minutes interview and the even stranger press conference.
I’m starting to believe Clemens, mostly because I can’t imagine ANYONE stupid enough to do what he’s doing unless they are completely innocent. I don’t care about the concern for his reputation, the HOF, or the most spectacular ego…if he’s still lying now he really shouldn’t have enough IQ to even put pants on in the morning.
It really is amazing how many similarities can be drawn between the steroid and spygate situations.
Both people making the allegations are former employees of the accused, both were known occurances but nobody did anything about it until Congress wanted to get involved, both have friends of the accused who may have the info necessary to get at the truth(Pettitte and Mangini) and both involve an elected official who has a conflict of interest that should have excluded them from being involved in the first place.
George Mitchell has to prove his charges, and he cannot do so. The truth has never meant much to the man, who deflects all charges against him by using the commonly accepted mistruth that he brokered peace in Northern Ireland.
The New York Times lists George Mitchell as a minority owner of the Boston Red Sox. (Click the link. He’s listed in the 7th paragraph.)
What I object to about the whole Clemens treatment by the media in general is they first come out against him (while proclaiming him guilty) for not saying anything. Then Clemens releases a statement through his lawyer. They change the complaint to they need to hear it from his own mouth. Clemens puts out a tape on that, stating it clearly that he did not use PEDs, listing HGH and steroids.
What does the media do after that? They say he needs to sue to show them that he is telling the truth. They say if he is innocent then he should be doing as Armstrong did, using every available means to talk about it. Meet it head on and be loud about it. He goes on with Mike Walace, discusses it, still not good enough. Has a press conference, they rip him for being too angry. He brings a law suit that has small chance for him to win due to the laws designed to protect the news media from frivilous law suits by public figures, that isn’t good enough.
He goes now to Congress to testify, UNDER OATH, which was the next moving goal post they put had put up, and they say he doesn’t realize that he could go to jail for lying.
To the media, because Senator Mitchell included Clemens in his poorly conceived and constructed report, Clemens is guilty regardless of him meeting and exceeding what they say he needs to do to convince them of his being honest.
The media has been irresponsible in this era. They are far to quick to condemn, and far too willing to caste someone as guilty before they have any chance to respond.
None of us know if Clemens used PEDs. None of us were there when the injections were supposed to have taken place. None of know the relationship between Clemens and McNamee. However, our opinions on the matter are greatly shaped by the media. Many people here believe him guilty, even though there is no evidence other than the word of one person.
The reporting on this whole mess has always been such that the assumption of guilt preceeds all other else. Funny, in our American Justice system we are supposed to assume innocence till proven guilty, yet the media using their forum in the court of public opinion works hard to do just the opposite.
The media in general as been irresponsible in using their power. They are supposed to inform us, yet they use the bully pulpit to shape and alter our own opinions by how they present things. Editorials are now accepted as reports. Polls regarded as news so long as it conforms to the general view of the producers.
The journalists in school almost always answer that they decided on a journalism career because they want to change the world. That is entirely wrong. They are supposed to try to report events with as little bias as possible, unless they are statedly giving their opinion.
It’s impossible to get good legal advice when the client lies to the attorney.
Whoa,
You speak from experience? As the client?
I gotta say that the more he denies, the more I believe him. Of course he could still be lying, but he must be DAMN sure that there is NO evidence anybody could possibly find.
Plus, I just really like him. I don’t want him to be guilty
I said this over on YC today actually…
http://yankees-chick.blogspot......roger.html
Come on Pete, Congress doesn’t exactly go to the mats when their lied to.
Representative Waxman and his Oversight Committee alone has a record of success in getting to the bottom of the Bush admin’s lies that equals Felix Heredia’s with the New York Yankees.
Congress will go to the mats if they see an easy, low-risk target. Clemens is not necessarily said easy target.
Cheating in a Superbowl is not a “joke”. I pretty much agree with what Easterbrook wrote though the comparison with the Black Sox scandal is too harsh. And concerning your usual “politicians should worry about more important things” argument: your blog is a testament that pro sports is in fact quite important to people. And if the NFL does not bother to answer questions then one has to make ‘em answer them.
Mark Alan said: “George Mitchell has to prove his charges, and he cannot do so. The truth has never meant much to the man, who deflects all charges against him by using the commonly accepted mistruth that he brokered peace in Northern Ireland.”
Investigators don’t have to prove anything. They turn over their findings to a higher body. If the findings of the Mitchell Report had remained an internal affair, MLB would be that higher body. Actually, George Mitchell served only as a compiler of findings investigated by others.
Because Clemens is the only MLB player named who has taken issue with the Mitchell Report which had been based on Federal investigations, in essence he has claimed that the Federal investigations were in error, so now it’s a Federal matter, and that’s why Congress is involved.
Clemens hasn’t taken issue with George Mitchell. I’m surprised anyone still has a problem with Mitchell’s part in all this, considering the matter has gone far beyond the Report.