Inside the spring-training roster: Relievers
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- February
- 7
40-man roster players: Jonathan Albaladejo, Chris Britton, Brian Bruney, Kyle Farnsworth, LaTroy Hawkins, Sean Henn, Ross Ohlendorf, Scott Patterson, Edwar Ramirez, Mariano Rivera, Jose Veras.
Non-roster invitees: Daniel Giese, Steven Jackson, Mark Melancon, Heath Phillips, Scott Strickland, Billy Traber.
Competition: Let’s see, Mo’s on the team. Brian Cashman, for reasons that remain unclear, has a lot of faith in Farnsworth. They signed Hawkins, so they’ll keep him. Beyond that, your guess is as good as mine as to who makes the team. Albaladejo and Patterson are new to the organization. Ohlendorf came on at the end of last season. Britton and Bruney fell out of favor last season but were kept around. Ramirez has a killer change and a fastball that gets killed.
Looking For A Lefty: Henn, Phillips and Traber are the only lefty relievers in camp. But the Yankees could try and convert Chase Wright into a reliever at some point. Cashman is generally against the idea of keeping a lefty for the sake of keeping a lefty.
Don’t Sleep On: Jose Veras threw 8.2 innings in the Dominican Winter League and struck out 13 while allowing four hits and four walks. He’s 27 how and needs to start showing something. Rivera is a strong supporter.
Promotion Possibilities: Anything is possible with this bunch. After successfully turning Joba Chamberlain into a reliever last season, the Yankees could try that with some of their other starters. If Joba starts the season in the ‘pen, that will solve a lot of problems.
Youngster Of Interest: Melancon will be a hot name this season. Team execs love his approach and work ethic. But he has thrown only six innings since being drafted out of Arizona in 2006 and missed all last season after undergoing Tommy John surgery. The surgery was 14 months ago and Melancon is ready to go.
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My prediction for the March 31 bullpen: Mariano Rivera, Kyle Farnsdouche, Latroy Hawkins, Jose Veras, Ross Oldendorph, Chris Britton. Hawkins and Farns have 1 year left on their contracts so they can be DFA’d when they suck and more kids could be plugged in. Melacon could fly through the system
I love what I have seen from Jose Veras
I look for Melancon to be in the mix for sure.
If we’re talking about predictions here’s one : Rivera, Farnsworth, Hawkins, Albaladejo (his debut last year proved that he can be great), Ohlendorf, and I really don’t know of another one. If Joba starts in the BP then it’s him, if IPK starts the year in long relief then it’s him, Veras or one of the leftys are my other choices.
No matter what Melancon is starting the year in the minors he’s just recovered from TJ and he, Sanchez and anybody else who just recovered from TJ will start in the minors.
Cashman messed up. He should’ve signed Troy Percival before re-signing Mo and veteran lefty relievers Jeremy Affeldt and Ron Mahay (primary and secondary lefties, respectively). Betcha Ron Villone and Mike Myers accept minor-league contracts cuz who’d they sign with this offseason? If he can offer Morgan Ensberg, a guy released by two teams last year, the chance to make at least $1.75M and as much as $4M to be the backup/insurance 1B/3B or platoon 1B/ backup/insurance 3B, he could’ve offered Farnsworth and $2.875M (midway between $1.75M and $4M) to a team in need of a cheap one-year closer for an M.L.B. ready middle reliever…and cleared $2.875M in the process…which means LaTroy Hawkins would’ve cost $3.75M – 2.875M = $900K if they still wanted to sign him (I’d have signed him cuz he is a durable veteran).
The bullpen if I was g.m. would’ve been Mo, Percival, Affeldt, Mahay, Hawkins, the middle reliever acquired from trading Farnsworth, and whoever wins the final slot out of spring training among Bruney, Ohlendorf, Veras, etc. That’s a better bullpen than the one Cashman has put together which looks like Mo, Farnsworth (lock at $5.75M), Hawkins (lock at $3.75M), Bruney (near-lock at $725K cuz did they give this guy $725K to pitch in AAA?), a wing, a prayer, and a lucky coin.
Cashman is overrated. How’d he IMPROVE this team, Peter? He certainly didn’t improve the bullpen. Farnsworth, Hawkins, Bruney, or anyone else after Mo would’ve been #6 on the depth chart behind Mo, Nelson, Stanton, Mendoza, and Grimsley (the 1999 Yankees bullpen). He’s relying on two guys with 13 M.L.B. starts between them with one of them having all the starts to be the #3 and #4 starters. He didn’t trade ONE onerous contract (Damon, Giambi, Matsui, Farnsworth, Igawa). He didn’t reduce Abreu’s contract -you telling me Abreu wouldn’t have taken say $11M ($2M buyout + $9M re-signing)? Who was signing him for 2 or more years at $12M or more per? He publicly said he loves batting in front of/ being protected by A-Rod, living in N.Y.C./ his apartment in lower Manhattan, and being a Yankee. He’s singing for his supper this year at $11M or $16M. Paul O’Neill took wayyy below market to be a Yankee and last I checked as good as Abreu has been, he’s not better than O’Neill if even as good as O’Neill. Re-signing Posada, Rivera, and Pettitte were no-brainers but then again, that’s all Cashman is: The Master Of The No-Brainer Moves. Ledee and Westbrook for Justice. Signing Mussina away from Baltimore. Trading Wells and Bush for Clemens. Wow, you telling me any number of g.m.s couldn’t make those moves?
All he did this offseason besides keep who he had to keep and any g.m. would’ve kept had he been fired is LaTroy Hawkins.
Farnsworth and Veras will be the surprises this season. Farnsworth just needs to be loved and Girardi will work on Farnsy’s confidence. Bruney and Ramirez will be replaced by newbies. Alba & Ollie in the first half, youngsters in the second half. LaChoy was the big “acquisition” so look for him to stick around, even if he’s not outstanding.
In fact the more I think about it, the Bruney pickup is insurance. He’s the kind of pitcher that other clubs look at and say “He’s got great stuff, I can make him a great pitcher”. With the relief market out there, Bruney’s a movable chip.
I mean look at that list of pitchers. The ONLY really good one is Mo. Albaldejo, Britton, Veras, Ohlendorf, Ramirez, and Wright have very little M.L.B. experience, Henn doesn’t have much and hasn’t shown he can be a primary lefty reliever let alone a secondary lefty, and Patterson has none. The non-roster invitees have little or no M.L.B. experience. It isn’t fair to expect these kids to make up 3/7ths of the bullpen. I hope one of them pans out but to expect three to pan out is unrealistic.
These are the guys after Mo, Farnsworth, Hawkins, and Bruney? Farnsworth, Hawkins, Bruney, any two, or all three aren’t locks to be Yankees at year’s end and they won’t be Yankees then if they suck badly enough. Why didn’t Cashman try to add a year to Luis Vizcaino’s contract when he was acquired in the Randy Johnson trade? Why didn’t he take a flyer on ancient but serviceable veteran secondary lefty reliever Doug Brocail? Brocail would’ve taken the $725K the Yankees just gave Bruney. What possessed him to trade Scott Proctor, a 70+ games a year workhorse for a free-swinging fatso like Betemit? Had he added a year to Viz’s contract, kept Proctor, and signed Brocail the bullpen would’ve been Mo, Farnsworth, Hawkins, Vizcaino, Proctor, Bruney, and Brocail. Not great but better than this one is looking like cuz you need 70+ game guys like Viz and Prok and vets like them and Brocail. All three would’ve been low-risk high-return guys.
This is hands-down the worst Yankees bullpen since the 1989-92 era. You add to that two kids in the rotation and an old Mussina, and we might very well see the 1989/90/91/92 Yankees II and if that’s the case, Hank should fire Cashman immediately after the Yanks are eliminated from making the postseason. I mean you fire him right after that elimination game no joke cuz that’s it. I’d fire him if they miss the postseason by one game cuz it was, is, and always will be about winning the World Series and making the postseason is the first step. So he’s out of a job the final 1-3 weeks of the season, so what, too bad, put together a real pitching staff with your next team, herb. Good luck doing it with a far lower payroll. Cashman erroneously thinks the Yanks are a small or mid-market team rebuilding. He is wrong.
They need to trade Farnsworth for a middle reliever and sign lefties Rheal Cormier and Trever Miller for a bullpen of Mo, the guy acquired with trading Farnsworth, Hawkins, Cormier, Miller, Bruney, and whoever wins the final slot out of spring training. They have more than enough farm system talent to acquire a reliever via trade to replace anyone save Mo, Cormier, and Miller besides trading Farnsworth.
This bullpen as presently constituted is unacceptable.
“Albaladejo and Patterson are new to the organization.”
Just a small correction, Peter. Patterson isn’t new to the organization. He signed in 2006 and has pitched Double-A and Triple-A over the last two years.
My prediction:
Rivera
Albaladejo
Rameriz
Hawkins
Henn
Britton/Veras/Farnsworth
White/Rasner
They may want to keep Karstens in AAA, so White or Rasner wil be long reliever. I have NO FAITH in farnswrth and believe he will be traded by the end of spring training. Same with Bruney. ALBA and EDWAR will have huge year. Hawking will have around a 3.80 ERA and will pitch 70+ innings. Henn will finally have a good year. He showed great signs the 1st too months last year until Toree got to him.
AAA Rotation:
White/Rasner
Karstens
Igawa
Horne
Marquez
Eventualy McCutchen wil join them.
Wow that’s great Mel. According to you, Farnsworth, a veteran making $5.75M, needs to be loved and have a manager boost his confidence, and Bruney and Ramirez will be replaced. You’re putting alot of faith in two kids with barely any M.L.B. experience between them in Albaldejo and Ohlendorf. Hawkins will stick around, great. Sean Henn has stuck around, he’s a lefty fighting for a job in spring training with what other lefties? Bruney is insurance for who? He has the most experience in the pen after locks Mo, Farnsworth, and Hawkins. When I have to think about who’s the best between Farnsworth, Hawkins, and Bruney, the Yanks are in trouble. I mean can you think of a season where the Yanks didn’t have a clearcut setup man cuz guess what? This 2008 Yankees team doesn’t have one, sorry, and if you think I want to say that, you’re nuts.
To all you who think I’m bitching, well guess what? You tell me who’s a setup man as good as or better than Jeff Nelson 1996-2001 and how the hell the 2008 Yankeees are winning anything without one. Chamberlain? Then who’s in the rotation, Ian Kennedy? Well then you’ve downgraded the rotation cuz Hughes-Chamberlain > Hughes-Kennedy. What if Hughes or Kennedy suck so bad, you have to move Joba back to the rotation thus risk hurting him? Nickname him Yo-Yoba Chamberlain then. You can’t. Joba is wayyy more valuable in the rotation than the bullpen and you know what? Why should he have to save Cashman’s job again? What if he and either Hughes or Kennedy suck? Then you have a hole in the rotation and a hole in the bullpen and friggin Kei Igawa in the rotation.
You people need to get real with the pen after Mo. It’s mostly unknown quantities and quite frankly busts (Farnsworth) and retreads (Hawkins, Bruney). B.t.w. I see Brendan Donnelly is on the list of unsigned free agent relievers on Cot’s Contracts, so why is he not in a Yankee uniform yet? Again, you offer Ensberg the chance to make $1.75-4M as a backup 1B/3B or platoon 1B, but you won’t sign Donnelly, Brocail, etc. PITCHERS? Betemit, Duncan, Jason Lane, and Juan Miranda aren’t enough?
When the Yanks have five guys vying to be backup 1Bs to take as much playing time away from Giambi as possible, that’s ridiculous and a problem.
Chris,
My 4:20 am post was in response to the thread, not to anything you wrote. It was simply an opinion. A hit or miss prognostication. For ENTERTAINMENT purposes only.
So, please. Kindly get off my back. Thank you very much.
I see a bullpen with Mo, Farnsworth, Hawkins, Albaladejo, Traber, Veras, (Ohlendorf). It can be a fine bullpen probably not in the top five but if the starters pitch good and the offense hits like Yankees are supposed to hit the yankees will be fine. I don’t like all this talk about a rebuilding year or we might not make the playoffs let’s first see how spring training goes, there might be some nice surprises.
Far from done. Cash Money will be spending some soon.
Wow, Pete took a swipe at Farnsworth, never would have guessed that!
“Cashman messed up. He should’ve signed Troy Percival before re-signing Mo and veteran lefty relievers Jeremy Affeldt and Ron Mahay (primary and secondary lefties, respectively).”
The yankees offered Percival a contract. He turned it down because the wanted to be a closer and signed with Tampa Bay.
But then maybe Cashman should have smarted up and signed Percival made him the closer and told Mo he had to the set up guy?
Maybe that would make some irrational fans happy.
Ron Mahay was offered a deal and he decided to take sign with Kansas City. As the royals always have to, they overpaid him to sign (2 years for 8 million). Mahay turned down 3 year deals to take the Royals deal. Think about that – the royals overpaid him so much that he turned down a three year deal.
And he’s not that good. Look at how many guys he walks. His control is terrible. We’ve had enough with Farnsworth.
Affeldt signed with the reds because Cincy was offering him a chance to be a starter again. That’s what he wanted and they were the only team offering him that.
Or maybe Cashman should have been a smart GM and signed Affeldt, given him a spot in the rotation and sent Pettite to the pen?
If you’re going to criticize cashman, fine. But at least be familiar with the players you think he should have gotten and the transactions they were involved in.
Farnsdearth is only here because of Joe Girardi. Girardi believes he can turn Farnsdearth around into something deceit. I hope he does succeed for the sake of the team.
Let’s see: Mo, Hawkins, Farnsdearth, Britton, Phillips, Ohlendorf, and Rasner/Karsten/Joba/IPK/Mussina.
Sorry Pete, but I don’t think Mussina will have a comeback year, unless he found the fountain of youth or pitches against the Royals, Rays, or Indians everytime he pitches.
“If Joba starts the season in the ‘pen, that will solve a lot of problems.”
I have some questions for the pitching and conditioning mavens out there.
After a few months in the pen apparently the Yankees want to stretch Joba out and expect him to start throwing 6 effective innings every 5 days instead of an inning or two a couple of times a week.
How do you safely make that transition and how long does it take?
Haven’t heard anyone mention yet that last year Mo was far from the automatic machine we’ve all come to expect over the years. I know it may be sacrilegious in this forum to suggest, but should we be nervous about Mo? Should more have been written and said about the 4 year contract??
Could Joba end up as (gulp) the closer?
CB already made excellent points about why these guys weren’t signed, but I offer this:
Affeldt, 2007: K/BB – 1.39 BB/9 – 5.0
Affeldt, Career: K/BB – 1.55 BB/9 – 4.2
Mahay, 2007: K/BB – 1.49 BB/9 – 5.0
Mahay, Career: K/BB – 1.71 BB/9 – 4.4
I’m sure none of our youngsters could possibly duplicate these wonderful numbers. And carrying lefties just for the sake of carrying lefties is pointless. The best lefty hitters will still hit below average lefty pitching.
E-ROC
Not the Indians. They certainly don’t belong in that group. The Indians are very good.
chris,
get off it, percival and affeldt suck!
San Diego had one of the best pens in all of baseball last year.
How did they do it? Did they spend a lot of money or bring in a bunch of veterans?
No – they took some major chances and decided to see what would stick.
People talk about building a pen as if there is a surplus of pitching talent out there.
The need for quality arms dwarfs the supply, across baseball. Every team needs bull pen help – even teams like the Padres and Sox. There just aren’t enough established arms for those roles.
The yankees are doing this the right way at the present time. They have a multitude of options – many guys with good arms who are short on experience – and they’ll see what sticks.
There are no other better ways to build a bull pen. Year after year what’s available on the free agent market is pitiful and no one wants to trade good relievers unless the deal is ridiculously imbalanced.
John in Ohio—I agree. But Mussina has always had relative success against the Indians throughout his career.
Affeldt, Percival, and Mahay all wanted to multi-year contracts. The Yanks have been burned by this too many times to go down that road. The Yanks have a LOT of options out of the ‘pen. If one fails, you plug in another. It takes a bit of luck to have a successful bullpen.
Rivera will be fine, IMO. He was really used on a consistent basis last season.
Everybody keep your eye on Billy Traber
Hes a former first round pick.
Of all the lefty relievers we have in camp, he was best agaisnt left-handed batters last year for Washington..
He could be a real sleeper for a matchup-role..
What kind of stuff does Billy Traber have?
My faith in Girardi is inversely proportional to my lack of confidence in Farnsworth. Hmmm… If he can straighten him out (or, make him a bit more crooked and deceptive) and discourage him from making that disastrous attempt at a pickoff move to first – which inevitably ends up in the stands – then umm…maybe we have something. Here’s a bright side for you, Farnsworth seems to have overwhelming success against Ortiz.
E-Roc-
Well, Traber doesn’t have the kind of stuff they expected back in 2000 when he was first drafted by the Mets.. He was suppose to be a starter, but at 27, hes in the BP now..
But he faced 51 left handed hitters last year with Washington and held them to a .176 Avg.
I heard on the radio that Roger is going back to DC to refute the “evidence” that McNamee presented.
CB –
Thanks for being a “voice of reason” on this particular subject. There are people who don’t bother to let facts get in the way of their superior thinking when it comes to putting the Yankees together. And just because we Yankee fans seem to think that any player would sell his soul to get the opportunity to play in New York, that simply is not the case. And I for one am glad that Cashman was not tempted to throw money out there to acquire mediocre relief pitchers.
Given the dearth of real quality middle relief pitching out there, and the inconsistency of even some of the better than mediocre pitchers out there, I don’t see a problem with keeping it in-house, at least for now, at least until either something much better comes along or a desperate need arises. I don’t see the Yankees as being “desperate” for relief pitching right now. Do I think the bullpen situation has a lot of question marks? Absolutely! But there’s no slam-dunk out there, either.
This is funny. The Mets trade for the biggest fish in on the market.
This is the cover and back page of the Post
http://www.nypost.com/seven/02072008/frontback.htm
This is the NY Daily news
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/galleries/front_pages_/front_pages_.html
Billy Traber is the sleeper as a lefthander to make the team. Henn is out of options and will have to show well or get DFA’d or part of a late March deal.
Igawa in a similar situation but with options left.
Chase Wright has to make a transition from starter to reliever.
Heath Phillips is a longshot.
And the Mets now have this to contend with.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/02072008/news/worldnews/pedros_fowl_ball_475252.htm
I knnow it is legal in the DR, but people here don’t think too highly of it.
I like Traber too, but I’m on the bandwagon of Heath Phillips.
CB pretty much said it all.
It always humors me when people complain about Cashman and his bullpen decisions. All of his decisions, for that matter.
It all comes down to one thing with them. SPEND MONEY!!!! That will solve EVERYTHING.
Doesn’t matter if you throw it away on journeymen such as Ron Mahay or Affeldt or anybody else, just SPEND MONEY!!!!
That solves everything. At least in their eyes.
Despite all the evidence we have seen over the years that spending money, just for the sake of spending it, doesn’t work, these folks still believe spending money is the answer. Especially, spending it on journeyman players.
Tell me a team that has successfully “bought” a bullpen? How did the Orioles do last year spending all that money on Jaime Walker and Baez?
Do you really think the White Sox spent their money well on a bullpen this off-season? That will be a disaster.
Oh, and how is that investment on Kyle Farnsworth working out for the Yankees?
Did you ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe, they feel the arms they have are as good as the dreak that was out there this off-season for bullpen options?
You don’t win by buying a bullpen.
They already have a great closer in Mo.
If they keep Joba in the bullpen, which is looking more and more likely, you can see the elements are in place for the bullpen to be pretty darn good.
Farnsworth and Hawkins can handle the 7th inning. If Jose Veras, or somebody else emerges, the bullpen won’t be an issue. If they don’t have somebody emerge, they can find somebody on the trade market.
Logic tells you however that, with the number of arms they have for bullpen duty, somebody is going to emerge. Just because we don’t know who that somebody is, doesn’t mean its not going to happen.
I am sure folks KNEW with CERTAINTY Hideki Okajima would transform the Red Sox bullpen at this time last year.
Its the beauty of sports. Not knowing who the next heroes will be.
Melancon is staying in Tampa and is basically going to follow the warm weather up the coast, with stops in each Yankee minor league level Tampa, Trenton, Scranton.
I have said it before and I’ll say it again. If he is healthy (which all indications are he is) he will be a factor in the second half of the year for the Yankees. The guy is a stud.
It sure as hell is better than wasting 9 million bucks on Ron Mahay.
Jennifer –
That’s really sad. But sensationalism (Clemens) will trump the mere great news every day. As for Manning, well, he deserves it!
Southpaw slant-
Right. They’re probably going to give Igawa every shot possable to earn a spot on the MLB roster because of them oney hes costing..
But if Girardi is a match-up guy, Traber could be a good guy to have on the roster. I hope they give him a good look this spring.
chris,
you are not impressing anyone with your rants. in fact you are making it more and more evident why you are alone and ranting at 5 am as opposed to snuggling with a woman.
chicks dont dig fanatics.
chill. besides the fact that you are wrong.
Anyone who claims to be able to predict how relievers will perform year to year is nuts. There are exceptions (That’s why Mo is the GOAT), but the vast majority of these guys are good for a year or two, then fade. Either the league catches up with them or they get burned out by over use. In most cases there is a reason they are in the position they are in: They are mediocre pitchers!
As to Chris, (BTW man, chill a little, huh?)Have you watched Affeldt pitch against the Yanks? We kill this guy.
I say, let the young, inexpensive kids that we control, fight it out for roster spots and we will find the next Nelson and Stanton internally.
Jennifer,
Clemens isn’t going to DC to refute the evidence against him. Its an already pre-arranged appointment to meet one on one with some of the committee members prior to his testimony next week.
I heard the same report and laughed out loud at how wrong it was.
Its amazing how some folks in the media business just can’t get it right. A quick Google search could have told them these meetings were already set up prior to this “evidence” coming out.
BTW, about this “evidence”? Every forensic scientist will tell you its worthless.
Unless this guy stored this “evidence” in pristine fashion, all this will turn out to be is a cheap PR stunt and nothing more.
They got the headlines they were looking for. Now, let’s see if there is more to it.
If there isn’t, then McNamee’s credibility is shot forever on this subject.
bullpens are a crap-shoot. Its all about getting on a good streak. Buying guys who had decent years last year rarely works and is very expensive. I like the approach of opening it up and seeing who shakes out. The BP was so bad last year that i think the law of averages will work to the yankee’s favor this season. that plus this is farn’s contract year. 2 or 3 guys are gonna rise up and have good seasons. Remember, we’re talking about middle relievers here. Out of this group will emerge a decent bullpen and hopefully that will allow Joba to start for most if not all of his alloted innings.
i still think it’ll be Mo and Joba at the back end when the team breaks camp… mostly due to the limit they have on Joba’s innings, and assuming Moose is guaranteed a spot in the rotation. I also think a lot depends on IPK coming to camp and being effective.
Mo
Joba
Hawkins
Farnsworth
Ohlendorf
Veras
Karstens
but if IPK does not have a good spring, slide Joba into the rotation and move Britton or Bruney into the MLB pen.
i have no doubt that Girardi will want a long reliver in this pen, so if it isnt Karstens, it’ll be Rasner.
While the ‘smoking syringes’ may sway some of the general public, it appears they have little legal value.
http://tinyurl.com/2tnylv
sj44
Thanks, just goes to show you again and again how the media outlets are wrong!!
Notice how I put the word “evidence” in quote. We have no idea how he stored it, or if he tampered with it. Any lawyer worth his salt would get this thrown out in a court of law.
Why didn’t he ever tell Mitchell that he had evidence? He didn’t think that Roger would refute what was said?
Also lets for one second (for the purpose of this arguement) assume that those vials did contain roids, and hgh. Why would one save it for 8 years? I could think of one and only one reason. He wanted to save it to blackmail Roger.
i think its really crappy that the local papers buried Santana’s arrival. I’m a yankees fan but im also a baseball fan and i think this is a huge story that every new york baseball fan should appreciate, that the best pitcher in baseball is coming to town! The story about the vials, etc. may be something or may be nothing, we should find out in a week, but JS coming to town is going to be a huge part of this and future baseball seasons in NY.
TurnTwo-
So you think they’ll break camp without a lefty-reliever?
Or are those just the BP pitchers your sure are going to make it?
Chris at least do a little research before you post. Mike Myers was signed by the Dodgers to a minor league contract with an invite to st.
And troy Percivel hasn’t thrown over 50 innings since 2002! And he signed at 8 million for 2 years? You want to throw 4 million a year for a guy who won’t give you over 50 innings?
I dont think they NEED a lhp in the bp. If one of these guys can prove he’s capable of getting lefties out in a big spot, then it’s a bonus, but i wouldnt carry a lefty just for the sake of it (which is kind of what it felt like with Villone).
i think ppl are underestimating the value of joba in the rotation. Prospect evaluators have him pegged as a #1. The yanks should be extremly hesitant to take him away from developing all his pitches in the bigs. To save innings, they could treat him as the #5 starter and skip him whenever possible.
It may end up that they have to use him in the BP because nobody else stepped up, but they shouldnt put him there until all other possiblities have failed.
If they start Joba in the beginning of the season and then the pen cant hack it, they can switch him and still have enough innings left for him to pitch the entire 2nd half and PS in the pen.
But if the pen turns out to be able to hold leads without him, the yanks would get his entire 150 or whatever innings in 25 or so starts. I know that doesnt cover the entire season but that would be so great for the starting rotation, Joba for 25 starts! That alone removes the weakest link (moose?, igawa?, karstens?) from the regular rotation. It also gives Joba a full season of developing his #1 stuff on the major league level.
I hope he starts all season
Doreen,
I think you hit on an important point when you said:
“Do I think the bullpen situation has a lot of question marks? Absolutely! But there’s no slam-dunk out there, either.”
More and more it seems that many yankee fans can’t accept any uncertainty in the roster. People are so used to winning, the idea that the team doesn’t have the best possible solution for every spot on the roster is unacceptable.
And in turn they say Cashman isn’t doing the job.
Yankee fans take issues like first base, the bull pen, center field, the bench and blow them out of proportion. As you said – there’s no slam dunks – in any of those positions. But what’s the alternative? Sign more mediocre talent from the free agent market just to say we did something?
The yankees have already tried to put an all star or “experienced veteran” at every position. It didn’t work. It was just a waste of money.
As SJ44 said – in many fans minds improving the teams just really means spend more money on veterans rather than taking a chance on something you haven’t seen before.
Boston did that last year with Okajima and Lester and it won them a world series. Colorado did that with all of their kids and they got to the series.
What other team’s fans would make such an issue about a few positions not being completely worked out at the start of training camp?
We have to stop acting like putting a more expensive player at every position guarantees a world series.
turn two, I’d say that was more Mike Myers. Nice guy, but his last seasons here he couldn’t get a lefty out in a big spot if his life depended on it. Remember last year, game against Tampa we were up in the game (April 24). He gave up a gs to Carl Crawford. At that point we needed that game. We needed him to come up big, he came up very small.
jennifer, of course, how could i forget about Mike Myers.
to give him some credit, he shouldered a HUGE brunt of the load early last season with all of those injuries to the starting rotation… he actually did an admirable job, but we cant forget that the role he was supposed to fill specifically, to get lefties out, he was simply ineffective.
It’ll be interesting to watch..
I’m not sure what kind of a manager Joe will want to be here..
Maybe he won’t be as into matchups as he was in the NL.
But if one of those left-handers pitches decent in ST, it’ll be tough not to bring them along to the majors.
I have a torn rotator cuff and a touch of tennis elbow. As a result I can throw nothing but off-speed pitches, but they’re all more off-speed than Edwar’s killer change up. And I’m 43 so I bring ‘veteran presence’. Gobs of it.
If the team signs me for the league minimum (I’ll even settle for that w/o going to arbitration) I’ll try harder than Carl Pavano. I could use the $$ and they might even get more value out of me than Pavano this season.
The scary thing it that unless Pavano can somehow make a enough of a late-season comeback to pitch a single mop-up appearance this season, the very last part of that statement is true.
He’d have to throw 3 pitches though …. I think I could throw 2 before I start bouncing ‘em in there. But I’d get lifted before I can walk someone, which is more than he could guarantee.
If scouts could say I’m using the off speed stuff to set up my heater (never mind the heat is somewhere around the speed limit) I might be able to pull it off. “The guy has all the velocity of Hilvan Finch”.
“McNamee did not tell federal investigators about the syringes and pads when he first met with them in 2007. And he never discussed such evidence with investigators for former Senator George J. Mitchell…” (NYTimes)
McNamee’s curious “new” evidence will play well in the court of public opinion, perhaps the arena of choice for the Mitchell team needing to “prove” the singular revelation of their entire report.
But the court of public opinion was happy to convict Clemens the moment McNamee said “boo”.
BTW, I don’t know if Clemens juiced or not.
I’m just appalled at the level of “evidence” the court of public opinion (and Mitchell himeself) is willing to accept as conclusive.
i wouldnt get too wrapped up in this ‘evidence’. Any reasonalble consumer of sports news knows that “according to McNamee’s lawyers…” means it might be something or it might be nothing. I think the press is gonna publish it and people are gonna read it, but i dont think it sways too many people either way.
CB –
I really don’t understand the mindset that seems to think the Yankees are “supposed” to win every year, not only the division, but everything. Every. Year.
Anyone who has followed baseball over a period of years knows that every team has its ups and downs, INCLUDING the New York Yankees. Of course, you want them to win. You wouldn’t be a fan if you didn’t. But it’s not fair to EXPECT them to win, regardless of the dollars spent. I always maintain that as long as the Yankees remain competitive for the season they are doing what they should be doing. Sometimes I think it doesn’t register with some fans that other teams are actually trying to win themselves, that they’re not in existence simply to provide an opponent for the Yankees.
Plus, it’s been an awfully long time since the Yankees had enough young talent to actually draw on it for themselves. We marvel at other teams’ youngsters, but when it comes time to allow our team’s prospects to show what they can do, everyone gets cold feet. I sometimes wonder if Jeter, Mo, Posada and Bernie would have been allowed to develop had the Yankees not been the “almost” team of the early 90s, and the team without championships of the 80s.
Saw this referenced in Buster Olney’s blog this morning:
“SHEPPARD STRUGGLING Bob Sheppard, the Yankees’ distinctive public-address announcer since 1951, who missed the division series last October because of a bronchial infection, “is struggling to recover his health,” a spokesman for the Yankees, Howard Rubenstein, said Wednesday.
The team “hopes he can return to the booth,” Rubenstein added.
One of Sheppard’s sons, Chris, a retired navy aviator who is now a New York-based pilot for a major airline, seems to be interested in eventually following in his father’s footsteps. He will get a tryout during spring training at Legends Field in Tampa, Fla., Rubenstein said.
Chris Sheppard holds a speech degree from Marquette and taught the subject at Washington High School in Milwaukee. He declined to comment.
Sheppard’s backup at Yankee Stadium has been Jim Hall, a former colleague at St. John’s. Hall succeeded Sheppard as the Giants’ public-address announcer. ”
Link: http://tinyurl.com/2yxez8
Hopefully Mr. Sheppard can get to feeling better and get back to Yankee Stadium one last time before it closes. It also be nice to have him open the new stadium. It’s just not the same when you don’t hear his voice on the PA.
yazman, and I’d like to think the Mitchell asked him if he had evidence. So did he tell them, he didn’t have anything? If so why?, if he had this? Does he have it for any of the other guys he injected? This “evidence” just opens up more questions.
rodg12 –
Thanks for that information.
Doreen – I think that the mindset that the Yankees are suppposed to win every year comes from the owner on down. It starts in spring training that anything short of the World Series will be a failure. And any time the Yankees loose in the playoffs, in the locker room after the game, the players will tell you that the season was a failure. If the organization and players feel that way, why shouldn’t the fans?
One other thing to mention…
Looking at which players were brought in on minor league contracts @ 1b and comparing that to the bullpen is apples to oranges. Please realize that every team in baseball signs a bunch of veterans and other players who don’t have contracts and brings them to spring training. Ensberg or Lane would have to hit .500 in the spring in order to make the team over somebody on the 40-man roster. It’s standard practice and it’s a waste of time to dwell on it.
Any Yankee fan’s wish is that Bob Sheppard can at least work part time for 2008 in the only Stadium he has ever known other than the Meadowlands.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Sheppard
Fran,
You make a very good point. While I think it ought to be the goal of the organization to win it all every year, I think it is a disservice when fans and players discount quality seasons and quality performances because the ultimate goal was not reached. A failure to me would be if they played poorly and didn’t compete on a high level.
The thing is they’re not SUPPOSED to win every year. It would be really, really, really nice if they did, but you cannot ignore the fact that other teams are trying to win, too, AND in this climate more teams can compete in the off-season dollar-wise than ever before.
Can we say it comes down to semantics?
Good questions, Jennifer!
I’m really not usually a conspiracy theorist. Perhaps it’s the Mitchell/Red Sox conflict of interest (and similarly the Spector/Comcast conflict of interest) that gives rise to my inner Oliver Stone. The Mitchell team desperately needed Clemens to justify their work, and desperately needs McNamee to hold up in the court of public opinion.
Rodg12: Thanks for the article.
I don’t want to be depressing or anything of the sort, but I have a certain feeling about Bob Sheppard and, just…well, it’s a feeling. I won’t get too into it.
****
How many hitchhiker’s fans are there here? Does it surprise anyone that Mo’s number is 42?
Life, the Universe and Everything?
rodg12
Thanks for successfully making me sad.
I hope Bob can get to the stadium and at least do a few games. It would not be the same without him. I hate the other stadiums broadcasters, they yell and scream like it is a basketball game. It would be interesting to see if Bob’s son could follow in his footsteps. IT wouldn’t be the same, but it would be close.
Doreen,
Once again I completely agree. You’ve summed it up perfectly.
“Of course, you want them to win. You wouldn’t be a fan if you didn’t. But it’s not fair to EXPECT them to win,”
So many people still use as their point of reference the dynasty of the 1990’s. They assume the yankees will win rather than understanding that the yankees have to compete. It’s sports. The outcome is uncertain. That’s why its fun. If you knew beforehand what was going to happen and expect it to happen it wouldn’t be interesting. That’s why as boring as it sounds Jeter is right year after year when he says you have to win the games on the field (especially on the field).
So many people talk about the yankees building the team in the same way that they assemble their fantasy teams.
I also agree that this year will be enjoyable for a different reason. Following the progress of the kids will be terrific. It’ll add something to being a fan in addition to the team hopefully winning. I think that’s part of the reason why the last dynasty was so great – we watched the core of that team develop, come together and emerge.
Rebecca; ever heard of the band, Level 42?
(Do the math.)
“I think that the mindset that the Yankees are suppposed to win every year comes from the owner on down. It starts in spring training that anything short of the World Series will be a failure.”
And I think that attitude has started to make the whole team tighten up in the playoffs. Their whole attitude changed between the end of the regular season and the first game of the post-season, and it made them play worse.
Frankly, I think the biggest change that would help this team in the playoffs has nothing to do with adding talent. It has to do with bringing the same attitude that brought regular season success into the playoffs.
I also agree that this year will be enjoyable for a different reason. Following the progress of the kids will be terrific. It’ll add something to being a fan in addition to the team hopefully winning. I think that’s part of the reason why the last dynasty was so great – we watched the core of that team develop, come together and emerge.
YES!
From today’s NY Post:
Tino Martinez, working as a special instructor, joined the Yankees yesterday at the team’s minor league complex in Tampa, working with first baseman Shelley Duncan, who is competing for playing time this season.
If Tino can sort out Shelley’s footwork and positioning, Duncan could see a lot of playing time if he produces with his bat.
“I also agree that this year will be enjoyable for a different reason. Following the progress of the kids will be terrific. It’ll add something to being a fan in addition to the team hopefully winning. I think that’s part of the reason why the last dynasty was so great – we watched the core of that team develop, come together and emerge.”
AGREED!
The best thing about the Santana non-trade and giving the kids a chance:
The FLEXIBILITY it will provide Cashman. As CB said:
“The yankees are doing this the right way at the present time. They have a multitude of options – many guys with good arms who are short on experience – and they’ll see what sticks. There are no other better ways to build a bull pen.”
Sorry about being a downer guys. Just thought that was something you all would want to know.
Doreen,
I agree that while it would be nice to win every year it is harder to do with the revenue sharing and all of the teams now having money to spend. As long as the Yankees put a competitive product on the field and play hard fans should be happy. And by the way the Yankees do that every year.
I think that a lot of the younger fans were spoiled by the success of the Yankees in the mid-90’s on. They did not watch the Yankees through what I refer to as the Horace Clarke years!
I do really look forward to this season with Joe Girardi coming in and the young pitching staff.
“Prospect evaluators have him pegged as a #1. The yanks should be extremly hesitant to take him away from developing all his pitches in the bigs.”————————————————————————————1) Everyone knows Joba WILL be a SP from 2009 on. This is NOT even a question.
2) IPs Joba has throw: 118(2005), 89(2006) and 112(2007).
He should be limited to 140 IPs in 2008, meaning 120 IPs in the regular sesason.
3) If Joba is (and he will be) in the BP this year, it is NOT because the BP is bad, but because of his IPs limitation. 20 starts (x 6 IPs = 120 IPs) is not quite 2/3rds of a year. This is NOT a matter of just skipping ‘a few’ starts.
4) If he is in the BP (for this 1/2 year only), he will be leveraged much higher, as in the BP, he will only pitch in close games where our odds of winning are highest. He will not be wasted on games where we are way ahead or way behind (which could happen in starts).
The Yankee FO is not stupid. They have ALL their finest pitching people coming up for the best usage plans for Phil, Joba and IPK. I’m sure they have multiple scenerios to anticipate every possible way the season might develop. They will NOT risk overusing Phil, Joba or IPK, but will figure out the most effective way for using them within their pitch limitations. I’m sure Karstens/Rasner will see some spot starts.
I do NOT believe the IPs limitations is a major issue as much as something to just plan for/around. I think we will ONLY have problems if there is some big combination of:
1) Moose stinks and is unusable
2) Karstens/Rasner both stink
3) Multiple pitching Injuries to our starting 6
4) None of our projected kids in the BP are any good.
The game is played on the field, and in any one year, you never know what may happen. But if the Yankees could win 94 games last year, with all the pitching injuries and what was a worse BP and SP then what we have this year, we should be fine.
We not only have a LOT of pitching talent but it would be easy for Farns, Iggy, Bruney, Britton and some others to have better years than leat year.
Cashman is smart. As he ALWAYS does, he will make mid-season aquisitions based on what is NEEDED at the time. There will be a lot more pitching talent available in July then there is now.
rodg12
It is, it just makes me sad to think one day I’ll be going to the stadium, and not hear Bob calling the lineups.
I knew it was coming, one game last year he was really struggling saying the lineups.
They did not watch the Yankees through what I refer to as the Horace Clarke years!
Fran –
That made me crack up!
CB…Murphydog…Doreen;
You are great to day, good job!
Billy Traber; I too, read somewhere, on one of the blogs, that lefties didn’t do well against him. I haven’t heard much else about him. Kei…now some pundants are saying he could be a good lefty option in the pen. I hope so.
Bruney/Britton, one of these guys was a lefty killer last year…which one (Bruney)?
Agreed, a Lefty just to have one? Not good! 27/08.
Britton dodn’t fall out of favor he barely played at all.Latroy ws a waste of money and spot in the bullpen.
CB,
Great points. People also forget that when referencing the Dynasty Years, they fail to bring up baseball has changed SIGNIFICANTLY since that time.
Namely, in the areas of luxury tax and revenue sharing. That has hurt the Yankees in a big way.
What Cashman is trying to do, and has been successful in doing so (since no team other than the Yankees have made the playoffs EVERY year since 1995), in minimizing the effects of the luxury tax and revenue sharing by doing more homegrown development of players. Namely, on the pitching staff.
Its pretty hard to rebuild/reload AND win at the same time. Especially in NY.
We are just seeing the fruits of this organnizational shift now. Hughes, Joba and Kennedy are just the beginning, not the end, of their careers. There are more arms coming. Perhaps as soon as this season.
Instead of declaring this a “failure”, as some Yankee fans are doing, and begging for the years when made more mediocore players multi-millionaires with dumb contracts, how ‘bout we just chill and see how this turns out?
One thing some Yankee fans can’t get thru their thick skulls. Paying above average money to average players does NOT make them above average players.
That is, of course, unless you think the Ron Mahay’s, Scott Linebrink’s, Octavio Dotel’s, and Jeremy Affeldt’s of the world are above average players.
If you think that way, there is no helping you. You are doomed to be classified as a “clueless fan” forever.
Jeez, way to go Pedro!
http://www.nypost.com/seven/02072008/news/worldnews/pedros_fowl_ball_475252.htm
The Yankees are fortunate to have had Mariano as their closer for as long as it’s been but he has seen many bullpen mates come and go during his time. It’s the nature of the beast.
Absolutely no team goes to spring training without bullpen questions. Longevity is not the staple of ANY major league bullpen. They vary from year to year depending to some degree of what the starting staff is made up of. Quality starts mean less strain on a bullpen. What a team starts and ends a season with for bullpen names can change within 5 or more for most teams. Relievers must possess a certain mental and physical quality opposed to a starter having a programmed routine between starts.
Shelly Duncan:
Major League Totals – 1 Season(s) 0074 .257 .329 .554 .883
Minor League Totals – 7 Season(s) 2650 .257 .340 .482 .822
We can all hope that Shelly has matured and can be an important part of the Yankees, but one HAS to consider his MiLB numbers: 7 seasons, over 2600 ABs.
Tino posted an average OPS+ of about 116 (about an .832 OPS)and 28 HRs/yr. Shelly could match these offensive numbers, but Tino was EXCELLENT on D where Shelly is below average. It is possible that Shelly could be an everyday 1st baseman, or certainly against LHPs, but we should understand why the Yanks and looking at other options.
We made fun of Dougout M. last year, but we know his glove took away a number of hits and saved both Jetes and ARod a number of errors. I don’t think it will be his bat, but his glove, that keeps Shelly out of the lineup at 1B.
Doreen – “They did not watch the Yankees through what I refer to as the Horace Clarke years!”
Fran – That made me crack up!——————————————————————-
That’s only because YOU didn’t have to watch them!
I did, and believe me, there was a lot more crying then laughing!
Buddy –
Not a great thing, but he was in the Dominican and it is legal there. Sigh.
Omigod, Rebecca – I haven’t read hitchhikers since high school (and that was a while ago).
On Sheppard – let’s keep him in our prayers. Whatever your faith, there is certainly benefit in positive thinking. I agree with Rodg that we need him to close out the old and bring in the new.
Finally, on the “evidence” – here’s the problem I see. This won’t be admitted in court in any criminal action against Clemens. Would it be admissible in the civil action against McNamee? Interesting thought and I would have to know more about what the “lab” tests ultimately find. Even if the results are not conclusive—and I personally believe this is somehow manufactured—I fear this is enough for McNamee to at least create enough doubt that this will never be resolved and Clemens will have this cloud over his head forever. That is the sad part here.
Ah, Old Yanks Fan –
I will admit that at that time I was not even a baseball fan, but my brother was a Yankees fan and I do remember seeing some of the Yankee games of the time, and Horace Clark was a “standout.”
“What Cashman is trying to do, and has been successful in doing so (since no team other than the Yankees have made the playoffs EVERY year since 1995)...”
Lots of outstanding points as usual, SJ44. Any Knicks fans in the crowd know that spending the most $ helps, but it does NOT guarantee winning (or even decent) teams.
Yes Doreen – Horace Clarke certainly “stood out”.
SJ44,
As usual, your points, particularly about the financial dynamics of the game, are spot on.
As yankee fans, we tend to see the economics of baseball as peripheral taking the yankees to be more like a bank than an organization.
In football, it’s been easier for fans to see the impact that institution of a hard salary cap (with non-guaranteed contracts) has on the composition of a team. Every roster spot comes down to an explicit cost-benefit decision. Good veterans get cut all the time.
With baseball, the indirect methods for leveling the financial playing field (as imperfect as they are) are much more indirect and more difficult to see. I think that was true even inside the industry – it took people several years to see what the impact of revenue sharing and the salary cap was going to be.
Luckily Cashman was one of the first to see this and restructured the organization to address that (just in time – if they’d waited any longer the team would have been a mess).
The game is totally different than it was in the 1990’s. Now with revenue sharing (and the overall increase in the industry’s revenues) the vast majority of teams have the resources to sign good young pitchers to big money, long term contracts.
Once that happened the entire approach the yankees were using to try to “win at all costs” fell apart.
Take the Padres giving Peavey that $52 million extension or the Twins even being able to offer santana 5 yrs/ 100 million. The royals signing Meche, etc. All of those things would have been unimaginable during the 1990’s when the yankees were winning championships.
The competative climate is entirely different. That’s why the yankees haven’t won a championship this decade. As you said –
“Paying above average money to average players does NOT make them above average players.”
But after revenue sharing, the vast majority of “talent” that makes it to the market is only the average to below average types.
The yankees have wasted enough time on that. If you don’t grow your own talent, especially with arms, you won’t have any talent. Not even if you are the yankees or the sox.
It’s not an option. It’s a reality of baseball’s new competitive landscape.
Random question.
Anyone know if MLBtv will allow us to watch Spring Training games? I am a subscriber to MLBtv for the regular season and am just wondering if they will allow us to buy the ability to see spring training games. Anyone know?
USA Today has reported Sports Weekly’s top 100 players that will impact 2008. Joba is at #2 and they expect him to be the yankees 5th starter even if he starts the season in the bullpen. Check it out at www.usatoday.com
I really don’t expect this team to win the WS. Or even make the playoffs for that matter. Lots of unknowns on the roster particularly the pitching. I look for 09 potentially being a better year.
CB-
Excellent points & great writing, any plans for your own blog?
Shy of obtaining one of the game’s premier closers to set up and then possibly succeed Mo (Nathan?), I think the throw-kids-to-the-wall-until-some-stick strategy will yield the best results.
Far better than paying for proven average or inconsistent vets.
It’s just THRILLING when a kid does perform (and Joba wasn’t the first SP tested in relief last year).
Long time blog reader, first time poster. I always love reading all your comments.
Mo will be dominant. He may not be as good as he used to be, but he’s still one of the best closers in baseball. If not for the rocky April last season, his numbers would have been as dominant as ever. I have absolutely no worries about Mo.
I think Joba will start the season in the rotation and move into the bullpen in August, appearing in close games at the time of the season when every game is a must-win.
I think Hughes will put up very respectable numbers.
I can’t wait to see the bullpen competition. I’m 18, and it was always my dream as a kid to play for the Yankees. Nothing could make me happier than seeing these young players living their own dreams, walking onto the field at Yankee Stadium, and helping the Yankees win. I’ve been a Yankee fan since the early 90’s(age 4 or 5) and I think this youth movement is what the team should have done 6-7 years ago. Kudos to Brian Cashman for not throwing away money by the next generation of Kyle Farnsworths but instead sticking with the youngsters.
Im very surprised that the media has pointed out that had Hank & Cashman picked Mattingly over Girardi, we would have been in deep trouble right now heading into Spring Training.
This might be the biggest offseason move after all!
FYI, went over to Legends Field yesterday and they have put an addition on in right field. There is now a big party deck from the foul pole over to right center field. There are seats that look somewhat like bar stools with tables in front of them…maybe about 10-15 rows of them. Then up behind that there is a huge bar. They’re basically just printing money. They will also rent it our for Bucs football games next year so you can have tailgate parties there.
Morning all.
Well, I was peeved last night about a certain rant, but of course I feel much better now. Seems like we’re all so passionate about the Yankees, we just express it in different ways.
The point I was trying to make last night to Chris is that individually, or even collectively, there is very little that we can do about 1B or the bullpen or Matsui’s knees or Jeter’s range.
People act as if Cashman is not aware of the gaping holes in the bullpen and at 1B. When are people going to figure out there are no other options at this point. If there was a Tex or a Nathan laying around don’t they realize that $tein-Ca$h would be able to buy it in a second? As for trades, NO ONE wants to help the Yankees. Exhibit A: Minnesota Twins. Exhibit B: Eric Gagne (lol on that one).
Every team, as pointed out by Doreen and SJ44, has a hole someplace. Starting depth, closer, lineup. Heck some teams (the Twins) don’t even have a genuine DH. So for those who insist that we must do something about the situation, please get Cashman on the phone and let him know about the problems at 1B and in the bullpen. Maybe Cashman’s not aware there’s a problem.
I’m just trying to say, chill out, enjoy the team we got, and see what happens. As Cashman’s demonstrated, he’s not afraid to make changes mid-season or step on toes. He’s always looking for ways to improve the team. And please don’t bring up past mistakes. All GM’s make them and he’s doing his best to fix what’s broken.
OK, end of rant.
You guy’s are so insane, if the yankees reached the post season last year [without ANY pitching in the first two months] Than they’ll definetly reach it this year!!
Guys have some faith in yoor team, and if you don’t be ashamed to call your self yankee fans!!
Hey, Ben! I can read your tag correctly now, it says happy,not haooy.
‘I’m just trying to say, chill out, enjoy the team we got, and see what happens’
Mel can only agree with you.
Mel when did it say differently?
Oops, your p, g, and y’s are getting cut off again, still better than yesterday.
Good morning Mel! Glad to see another voice of reason is up and posting this morning. As I recall, we went through this same exercise before last spring training – with panic ruling the streets. I can only agree with you now –
Relax everyone. There is a reason they do what they do and we, quite frankly, don’t.
Ben,
When Pete changed the shell of the blog, it cut the tails off of certain letters. p, g, y, q, j. Someone else confirmed it did that for her, too. It was in yesterday’s thread. Yours was funny because “Huohes was staved”
Even the letters on the previous thread/next threads at the top get cut off.
It probably has something to do with my browser. I refuse to use Firefox and am still using IE.
Kind of hard for me to get on board with folks predicting “no playoffs” before the first ST workout.
They play the games for a reason.
Are the Yankees a team in transition? Yes.
That doesn’t mean they won’t be a good team.
I don’t know, call me crazy but, a team with Arod, Jeter, Pettitte, Wang, Cano, Rivera, Posada and Chamberlain (just naming a few guys) seems to me to be a good team.
Does it have holes? EVERY TEAM in baseball has holes. Its how and whom plugs them which will determine the fate of the team.
No predict, “no playoffs” is, at least to me, a prediction made by someone who hates Cashman and wants to be proven “right” if it comes true.
If they make the playoffs, especially in a transition year, then the battle cry will be, “no World Series, the season is a failure”.
Its always something for the half empty crowd.
yeah, my name kinda looks like it says saucv
Oh thats funny didn;t relize that, I’m using IE and have no problems
pete’s bio is almost impossible to read, as well…
Ben,
PC or laptop? Maybe the dimensions of the browser are important. I’ve mentioned it several times, but I guess I have to e-mail Pete.
saucy,
You can’t fool me, you changed yours to saucv.
That Chris character is a moron. Troy Percival is doo doo, pure and simple. He got beaten like a drum in Detroit because he got taken yard every 3 innings. He’s also going to turn 39 in August.
Jeremy Affeldt is another bag of crap. Kind of putting it together for 60 IP in Colorado after throwing horribly for KC doesn’t count for jack. Especially considering that he walked 33 in his 59 IP.
And he wanted Ron Mahay because Ron Mahay had a pretty serviceable year between Texas and Atlanta. Yep. After posting a 5.04 combined between 2005 and 2006. So, yeah, Chris, save your comments.
Chris goes on to advocate the acquisition of Rheal Cormier, who got his feet wet in 1991 with the Cards. The fact that he’s turning 41 3 weeks into the season is apparently of no concern. Never mind the fact that he was good for all of 3 IP last year. He couldn’t hack it in the NL East in 2005, either.
If a trend is emerging, it’s that Chris evaluates bullpen possibilities on the basis of one or two good years. Bullpen pitchers are largely fungible precisely because they’re not, by nature, good. Outside of setup and closer, you’re not filling your bullpen with world beaters. And while it’s true that no one’s Chris has mentioned is truly, truly abysmal, I just don’t understand the idea of filling the pen with 40-year-old career 100 ERA+ guys. Let’s continue.
Well, he likes Trever Miller, too. Who can say why. This guy fits the mold of the other 4 Chris has mentioned. Why he wants to throw good money at mediocrity is beyond me. The Yankees can certainly throw together some combination of the guys on their 40 to give them 350-400 IP at 100 ERA+ or marginally better.
A Yankees bullpen that contained Miller and Cormier would be utterly unacceptable. Chris loses.
Buddy,
Glad to hear you liked the comments. No plans to start a blog – as Yankee fans we’re lucky that there are so many good yankee blogs already! I enjoy the interaction with others posters – that’s what makes submitting a comment fun.
Not going to get into name-calling but at least Chris got some people’s blood going (right mel?).
One thing I’ve noticed in the short time I’ve been reading this blog is the large number of pessimists who cry tthat the sky is falling at every opportunity. Wait until the Yanks start losing RS games before you start in on how bad the pitching is folks.
I actually feel better about this team as currently composed than I did about last years team. We have actually seen Phil, Joba, and Ian pitch in MLB. We couldn’t say that about Igawa, and Pavano was a big question mark last year.
I’m perfectly fine with the Yankees possibly not making the playoffs. I rather watch the kids develop and see who else comes up from the farm and makes an impact.
Jesus Christ. It continues. Doug Brocail??!? This guy’s not even average! An ERA+ of 84 over 2005-06 should demonstrate that. He’ll turn 41 in May.
And Brendan Donnelly, who has arm problems, has already been offered an MiLB deal by Cleveland. So that’s what dreaming gets you. He managed 20 IP last year. I don’t know what he can count on this year unless he makes a miraculous recovery from Tommy John surgery he underwent in 8/2007.
Chris got some peoples’ blood going because his suggestions ranged from stupid to odd. It’s one thing to criticize Cashman, but do it sensibly and try to base it on an understanding of the game of baseball.
The Yankees will be fine. And they’re set up much better for the long term than they were 5 years ago.
good point SJ, i don’t know why there are so many doubters.
the red sox bullpen last year was predicted to be a disaster…and we all know how that turned out. i’m completely with cashman on going with some young arms in the pen.
the tribe did well with that strategy last year.
i’m very worried about bob sheppard, hoping for the best, but i guess we’d better prepare ourselves. he is 97 after all. it’s just impossible to imagine him not being able to announce the last game in the stadium this year.
miss the playoffs? this team won more games than any other team from june 1 on. This team is in the hunt for the WS crown!
IMO there is a good chance that the pitching staff, both starters and relievers will be better this year.
If they dont stagger out of ST like last year, they can make a run at 100 wins.
Yanksrule,
I only got peeved after he (she?) called me out. I don’t have a problem with people expressing their opinions, but I’m old-fashioned in that I’d like for people to do it without getting personal.
He thought my thoughts were foolish, but I never, ever put something completely crazy out there just to stir something up. My ideas are a bit outside the box (translation: I don’t know what I’m talking about), but they’re always logical and well-thought out.
What I really wanted to say, was learn some MF manners, but that would’ve been rude, huh?
I shouldn’t take it personally. I just think that we’re a civilized society of higher-order beings, and we should be able to discuss and disagree respectfully. I know it’s silly, but is that to much to ask?
Include me in the “No playoffs” camp.
I can’t envision the Yankees advancing in the playoffs. If the innings caps constrain 60% of their rotation, the effect of their absence will manifest at some point. Either Joba, Hughes, IPK are prevented from pitching important games in the middle of the season, in the stretch drive, or in the playoffs.
Apart from the inning caps, they all will face strict pitch count totals as well, placing a considerable strain on their bullpen—not that the Yankee bullpen isn’t accustom to it anyway.
The only major gripe I have with Cashman about the bullpen—I vehemently disagree with his Santana decision of course—is the foolishness of signing Hawkins, when for an additional $3.5 million he could have re-signed Vizcaino.
(The FO’s supposed concern about Vizcaino’s innings totals last year didn’t persuade me—Viz has pitched 70+ innings 3 of the last 4 years, and 4 of the last 6.)
The Yankees enter 2008 with more unknown quantities and unanswered questions than at any time in recent memory. They might excel, notwithstanding. But I wouldn’t bet on it.
Two players to watch: Giambi, entering his walk year, and Shelley Duncan. If Giambi can rebound and produce the way he did in 2006 and Shelley Duncan’s number last year hold over 400 ABs, the Yankees should score 900+ runs.
That will keep them competitive, but in the end, I can’t seem them eclipsing Boston in the East or the loser of Cleveland/Detroit and Seattle/Anaheim.
The pitching injuries have already started in baseball.
Kelvin Escobar will start the year on the DL with shoulder problems for the Angels.
There is some talk that if rehab doesn’t work, he will have season ending surgery.
I don’t understand the Seattle love right now. The Bedard trade has not been made and, even if it is, there is no guarantee they will match last season’s run.
Cleveland? The Yankees beat them like a drum in the regular season and lost in the post-season when the bugs turned that entire series. Its not like the Yankees can’t compete with the Indians.
The Red Sox? The Yankees won the last FOUR series with the Red Sox last year.
My point is, the Yankees were neck and neck with these teams, despite the fact that they weren’t healthy the first 2+ months of the season.
They also had Jeter playing hurt (very hurt) the entire second half of the season.
They aren’t as “far” away as folks may think. Unless, of course, you believe none of the younger players will improve.
Kill-Shill,
It’s pretty uncanny, because everything you say is true.
But you never know what’s going to happen once the season starts or even throughout the season. You have injuries to key players on favored teams. You have breakout performances on non-contending teams. All of a sudden guaranteed wins aren’t so guaranteed. Who would’ve guessed that the Royals would have a better record than the White Sox, who won the World Series just a few years ago?
That’s why they play the games,and you know that every year the Yankees have a fighting chance. That’s what makes baseball so fun to watch.
Chris – that’s a lot of “what if’s.” The Yankees have options and you tell me what team doesn’t have holes? Tell me a team where if their star player or prospect ended up slumping/sucking that the team wouldn’t have a hole that they couldn’t fill. The Yankees have 6 pitcher who are/prospect to be very good starting pitchers. Move 1 to the bullpen and 1 ends up sucking and you have 4 solid starters and 1 suck. What team has a stacked 1-5 starting rotation? None.
The bullpen has a lot of other options who will be coming throughout the year – either kennedy, joba, or moose, then you’ve got Horne and Sanchez coming later. Stop discounting players because they have no MLB experience. Joba didn’t. There are a lot of factors into making a good reliever.
And as for 1B – there is nothing wrong with having a platoon or even 5 guys trying out. Why not make it 10, who cares. These guys are fill-in’s until we can scoop up a legit player.
The Yanks plan to have Abreu for more than 1 year. So, they give him 16 million and he has no contract next season – which means he is playing for the right to a new contract next year. The Yanks play it year by year with players – a few extra million to keep the contract short and they will take it.
sj44—
I hope you realize that there are some here who are cataloging your every post, waiting to pounce if during the season you get even a little impatient with our Yankees.
But, seriously, I would love to know if the fans of other teams are this pessimistic before spring training even starts—heck, before pitchers and catchers have even reported? I always thought that this was supposed to be the most OPTIMISTIC time of the baseball season—all the possibilities wide open, fresh starts and all that. What gives?????
I mean at least now we don’t have anything going on on the field to mar our happy thoughts!
geez! why all this no playoffs talk before spring training? Didn’t we win 94 last year? only clemens, phillips and viz are gone and we’ve got young arms to replace those innings!
World Series this year!
SJ,
Like you said earlier, people want to say it now so that if it finally happens they can say they said before ST. If the Yankees didn’t start so badly last year the would have won the east. IMO, after the Yankees got healthy they owned Boston, it was the schedule makers that had them play the Sox 12 times in the first 9 weeks of the season.
This team will be better than last years team and most of the better bullpens in the MLB have come out of no where and were then thought of as great bullpens.
Spring training is the time of year when everyone is optimistic about making the playoffs.
Fran –
That’s what I thought!
There are a lot of teams with questions on it. Lets take our neighbors to the North
Will Beckett have a seson like last year, or will he revert back to his 2006 form? Schilling is another year older, he has already shown age, will he continue to break down? Dice K, Did he wear down, or did the league figure him out? Wakefield, another year older, can he get healthy? That is just 4 people from the rotation.
Now lets move to the field, was lowell’s season just a career year, will he revert back? Ortiz, has his weight, or other things caught up with him? Will Manny just be Manny or will he go all out being a contract year? V-tek will he continue to slide, or he is on the downside of his career and only get worse?
So to those nagative bloggers, there are questions on every team.
then i want to be the guy who said before ST that the Yanks are gonna win the WS!
Negative posters:
Back in the NFL pre season, how many people picked the Giants to win the Super Bowel for any reason more rational than just that they’re your favorite team?
Blaming Cashman (or whomever) in advance for the Yanks missing the ‘08 playoffs? C’mon … at least try to enjoy being a fan.
If they could make it to October ‘07 with all the health misfortunes that came up, they have a very solid chance at it going into this year.
If the Yanks are 5 back in May, I don’t want to hear it. Especially if they’re not screwing up and Boston or Toronto start of really hot. If they’re 5 up in May, what will you say then?
It’s the querstions about the younger players, sj44, coupled with concerns about the older guys as well.
1) How will anyone of the rookie starters perform over the course of an entire major league season? Are Joba, Hughes, and IPK the modern version of Glavine, Smoltz, Avery; Zito, Hudson, Mulder; or Isringhausen, Pulsipher and Wilson. How can any of us answer to this question?
2) Do the Yankees have a single arm in the bullpen they can rely upon, apart from Mo? Will Farnsworth continue to be an erratic, unreliable disaster? Will Ohlendorf and Veras flourish as expected or will they falter? Can Bruney learn to throw strikes? Will Mo finally start to show his age? MO was far from dominating last year. Too often, he reminded me of Wettleland in ‘96
3) How can Posada and A-Rod possibly duplicate last season’s offensive production in 2008?
4) Is Giambi done or will he recover from his injuries and return to his 2005 and 2006 production?
5) Was Matsui’s year in 2007 an aberration, a season plagued by his knee injury, or the beginning of his decline?
6) Same questions abound concerning Damon. Was last year’s season an aberration, marred by injuries and poor conditioning, or the beginning of a regression in his skills?
7) Does Cano’s contract make him complacent?
9) Is Andy Pettite affected by the steroids controversy? Does the distraction impair his performance?
(I’m also assuming the Bedard to Seattle trade is a fait accomplis once they agree on the final details.)
Jennifer—
You forget—according to the all-knowing, Boston will only get better—they do not age, they do not ail.
Of course, Posada cannot possibly reproduce his fantastic season, but you KNOW that Mike Lowell absolutely will!
And on, and on, and on!
Wow, Kill-Shill, I bet you have dark wood paneling on your walls. Just kidding. Like I said, all very valid points, but c’mon, you’re not really expecting all that to happen? That’s almost Nostradamus-like.
My perfect season, Giants beat Pats, Yanks dethrone Sox!
Lets Go Yankees!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jennifer – I money is that Beckett does NOT repeat last year. I’m not 100% sure on this but I believe last year was only his 2nd or 3rd FULL year with no significant injuries (where he had to miss a month out of the season). Boston had EVERYTHING go their way last year. Could it happen again? Of course, but no likely in my estimation with questions about Schill, Wake, Tek, the list goes on.
Also, if for some reason the decision is made that Joba starts in the pen. We wont’t need to have this “pen” discussion any longer. He would dramatically change the complexion of the team from that standpoint, even though I do hope he is given a shot to be a potential stud starter.
Doreen you are right, nothing goes wrong in Boston or elsewhere. Only Yankee players age, or have bad seasons.