Inside the spring-training roster: OFs
-
- February
- 9
40-man roster players: Bobby Abreu, Melky Cabrera, Johnny Damon, Hideki Matsui.
Non-roster invitees: Justin Christian, Colin Curtis, Brett Gardner, Austin Jackson, Jason Lane, Greg Porter, Jose Tabata.
Competition: All spots are set. Abreu will be right, Cabera in center and Damon in left. Matsui will transition to more of a DH this season. Those figure to be the only OFs kept on the roster as Shelley Duncan or Chris Woodward (if he makes the team as a utility infielder) can play the corners.
Don’t Sleep On: Damon showed up out of shape last season, lost his job in center and had what for him was a lousy year. He’s got plenty of pride and will be looking to bounce back. The Yankees are a different team when he’s playing well.
Promotion Possibilities: It’s unlikely the Yankees will need outfield help during the season. If they did, they’d probably go with the hottest player in Scranton at the time.
Youngster of Interest: Jackson is ranked the organization’s No. 2 prospect by Baseball America. A five-took outfielder, he had a breakout season in 2007. He’s expected to open the season with Class AA Trenton but could make another surge.
This entry was posted
on Saturday, February 9th, 2008 at 3:42 am by Peter Abraham.
You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed.
Share and Enjoy: 
| 
Print This Post
| 
Email This Post
Peter Abraham
The Trenton outfield should be fun to watch with Tabata and Jackson. Hopefully one of them flies through the upper levels this year to replace Abreu in 2009.
Another season with a solid outfield. Now if we could only solve Abreu’s fear of walls.
Didn’t Damon say he tried running a couple of times this winter and quit?
He may have been kidding, but if that’s true look for another slow start. The big difference might be Joe G. who may not hesitate to sit a veteran he feels isn’t giving 100%.
The X-factor at some point of the season could be Brett Gardner who will be watched closely in spring training.
With his speed he can do some things and could get the first call should he be needed.
I don’t even think it’ll be a matter of not “giving 100%.” We have an old team and every year these older guys are gassed at the end. We will absolutely need a 4th OF off the bench (and I DON’T mean Matsui). The problem is, you don’t want it to be 5-tool prospects (AJax, Tabata) because they need to play every day. Maybe they bring up Gardner and give some some time in the OF. He’s not as highly projected as the other two and could help us with fresh legs, both in OF and as a PR.
Being in bad shape is not acceptable. C’mon Johnny D, get with it!
That would really be embarassing to come to camp and the manager’s in better shape than you are.
Last year Damon showed up out of shape at ST. No question. Whether it was nagging injuries from the previous season that kept him from working out his wheels, or the arrival of a new baby that killed his schedule and diet, he – - and the team – - really paid the price.
Girardi will sit him if necessary, although in the field, an out of shape Damon may be a little better than a fit Matsui. But his teammates won’t give him a pass a second year in a row. You’re either ready to go on Opening Day or you play catch up all year long and never get quite right. I’m with Pete. I’d be surprised if Damon made the same mistake two years in a row.
Even if Damon is in great shape, we need backup in OF. Damon and Abreu are both over 30, and both are base stealers. All of this takes its toll. We need a YOUNG reserve OF.
If someone’s out of shape in ST, their punishment should be playing catch with Pavano all season.
That’s enough to make anyone work hearder.
*harder.
This is a terrible offensive outfield against lefties. I hope Girardi replace Abreu so there is no black hole between Jeter and Arod.
I really feel for Donnie Baseball:
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2008/02/09/2008-02-09_don_mattingly_its_best_i_missed_out_on_y-2.html
Give Jeter some training and reps in the OF. Try him out at the end of some blowouts, and the Yanks will have a lot of those this year, give Damon or Abreu some rest for their old knees, and bring in the attorney general to play short.
If Abreu is a black hole int he lineup id gladly take 9 black holes in this lineup. Is 100+ rbis and a .380 obp not good for you? Just because he doesn’t put up many home runs which is the sexy stat doesn’t mean he is a black hole in the lineup.
RE: Damon
It was my understanding that he was recovering from injuries in the off season which is why he came in out of shape. Was that not so?
Four days to go now…we’re really getting down to the wire!
Matt…
Abreu is the only man in that OF with HoF potential. He could do 3,000 hits, 400 HR, 500 SB, 2,000 RBI. (It’s possible, anway.)
Someone has to get the poor guy over his irrational fear of walls. Make him sit next to Melky every game for a week.
Why don’t the organization try to watch after these guys during the winter and make sure they don’t get out of shape when spring training comes along ???!!!!
Ratachewy: Mostly probably because players don’t want to feel like they’re being watched over like little kids?
Actually, probably not. I know there’s some stuff written into contracts, but I’m not sure how far it goes.
I am very confident with the team we have going into this year and do not see too many weak spots. The minor spots that are weakening, it seems that Cash and Girardi have them backed up or covered pretty well. If they play like they did during the second half of the year, they will be following the G-men through the Valley of Champions.
People… feel free to back up your OPINIONS with either FACTS or STATISTICS.
Bobby Abreu: Runs Created per 9 innings (RC/9)
Career: 7.9
2006: 8.2
2007: 6.1 (worst year since 1998)
So a team full of slumping Bobbys scores 6.1 runs/game
So a team full of ‘average’ Bobbys scores over 7 runs/game
He has a good arm. I would peg his defense as average+/-
He is 33 which is getting older, but plenty of players have carrer years or near career years at his age or older.
For example: Mike Lowell and Jorge Posada. There are many more.
Is this considered a ‘black hole’?
OldYanksFan – As your stats indicate last year was Abreu’s worst in a while, but that also does not include the fact that he was hurt and missed part of spring training. And when he did come back his swing was off because of the injury.
Also Alex liked batting behind Abreu because he takes so many pitches and that gave Alex better looks.
old yanks fan:
aren’t we allowed sometimes just to have an opinion?
cut us a little slack sir…please.
The love fest for Abreu is amusing to say the least. Last year his ops against lefties was .678! That is a black hole in the lineup! Also he will be 34 before the season starts. This thing about him seeing so many pitches in front of Arod is not that big a deal and Damon could do just as good a job. p/pa Damon 4.3 and Abreu 4.4 and then add in his much lower walk rate in the AL he in not worth the money period!
old yanks fan: aren’t we allowed sometimes just to have an opinion?—————————————————————————————Of course! But you know what they say about opinions and azzholes, yes?
While I enjoy voicing my opinion, what I really enjoy is learning and becoming more knowledgeable about all the many facets that is baseball.
Uneducated/Unsubstanciated opinions only confuse the issue.
Some people’s opinion might be that the world is flat.
I’m just not sure how an opinion like that adds to the blog or how it benefits others here reading said opinion.
Have you learned anything here?
Do you enjoy learning and expanding your own knowledge of baseball?
Do you still think that Bobby is a black hole?
“The love fest for Abreu is amusing to say the least.”
Do you consider simply stating some of Bobby’s stats to be a lovefest?
“Last year his ops against lefties was .678! That is a black hole in the lineup!”
So of the many, many different stats we use to help qualify a players value, you pick ONE stat from ONE year?
Last year, Manny had an .801 OPS (which is below average for a LFer) and a .629 OPS in April! Does this make him a ‘black hole’ also?
Oops… that should read:
Last year, Manny had an .801 OPS (which is below average for a LFer) against RH pitchers and…
Pete – I’m just signing on now, and read your previous post on the latest in l’affair Clemens…”McNamee Museum of Medical Waste, with car washes by Radomski…” George Mitchell and his autographed ball by Schilling…You certainly know how to turn a phrase.
“This is a terrible offensive outfield against lefties. I hope Girardi replace Abreu so there is no black hole between Jeter and Arod.”
that’s why they are looking at Mench. i would support picking up Mench on a minor league deal.
having Ensberg will help the situation against lefties. this team will be more balanced this year.
Saw this posted on the YES boards:
Updated uniform numbers:
Phil Hughes – 34
Ian Kennedy – 31
Edwar Ramirez – 36
Chris Britton – 39
Chase Wright – 65 ( why he took Phil’s former #)
Sean Henn – 30
Ross Ohlendorf – 39
LaTroy Hawkins took Clemens’ former number, 22.
that’s why they are looking at Mench. i would support picking up Mench on a minor league deal.
—————————————————————————-
I think the Mench deal will happen, does he really want to waste another year in Texas, only for the AB’s I guess. I definitely could see Ensberg & Mench and/or Lane breaking camp with the Yanks. Should be interesting.
Abreu has never hit lefties all that well and yes you can say in 06 he did quite well against them but in 04/05 he did not. Abreu also is a one hop outfielder in that he always plays the ball on one hop hardly ever trying to make a play. Just ask yourself honestly how many outfielder you would prefer over Abreu and then you will realize he so over rated. If and this is a big if he can regain his NL walk rate he become valuable again but until that happens he is an average MLB outfield who should be platooned against lefties.
There is no known stat for making a pitcher consistently go deep into a count thus driving up his pitch count. This is a quiet contribution that Bobby Abreu makes. He must get his pitch or no bite.
dan l – over the last three years, Bobby’s OPS splits are:
.763 and .900
So yes, he is definitely weaker against Lefties.
Fortunately, Lefties are only about 30% of pitchers we face.
And we may see Shelly or Mench in RF for some of those times. But we do have to look at their defense and how our lineup is effected by pulling our #3 guy out.
But I agree, it’s definitely worth looking at.
I will say that Big Papi has a split of .852/1.111, a .259 difference. 0.852 is certainly better then 0.763, but many. many players are worse agaonst a same-handed pitcher. So I would guess how well/poorly said player reacts to platooning might also be a factor.
Mench does have a .919 OPS against lefties, so it is a pretty substancial gain over Bobby.
“Abreu has never hit lefties all that well and yes you can say in 06 he did quite well against them but in 04/05 he did not.’
Last year was a relative outlier for Abreu against left handers.
While its true that Abreu has been better against right handers than lefties over his career lets not go overboard and just say he’s can’t hit lefties or is a “black hole.”
His career OPS against righties is .962 and against lefties is .766. A .766 OPS for a left handed batter against lefties is more than adequate. For a comparison, Jim Thome’s career OPS against lefties is .757. Ryan Howard’s career OPS against lefties is .805 – better but not that much better than Abreu’s career OPS.
It’s not easy to find left handed hitters that are going to put up an .800 OPS or greater against left handed hitting year after year.
In addition, his .678 OPS against lefties last year was his lowest in the past 7 years! There’s a good chance he will bounce back well this year.
Also, in 04 and ‘05 he was fine against lefties – in ‘04 he was excellent – .868 OPS (yes his Batting average was .267 but his OPS was great) and in ‘05 his OPS against lefties was .759 (with a batting average of .275).
I agree that the yankees will only benefit from adding depth in terms of right handed hitting. However, let’s not relegate Abreu to the role of platoon player yet.
Last year was a very strange year for him and I think a lot of it can be explained by that oblique muscle strain he suffered in spring training. That’s a very difficult injury for a hitter and is very, very slow to heal.
Hi Pete…the Yankee website is not very user friendly. I wanted to print out their 2008 schedule on a single page to place on the fridge, but it’s not an option. Clicked on “contact us” in hopes of asking the Yankees if this would be possible later, but at best you get a FAQ list. Or perhaps purchase a fridge magnet schedule, but where? I’m a forever Yankee fan living in Oregon, so things like a pocket schedule, etc. are not an option for me. Any suggestions? Your blog is the spot for the latest accurate Yankee info. Keep up the great work!
So if you guys were on the Yankees, what numbers would you choose?
I’d go with 36 if it was available, and 8 and 7 were retired.
Abreu has very little power against lefties as well. I think you need to throw out his 06 stats unless you can get splits for both teams that year. His NY numbers were very good after the trade but even then his walk rate diminished. Abreu batted in front of Arod so he should have seen good pitches even against lefties. Now how do you explain .678 ops and a lesser walk rate?
If was noted on other boards that Abreu was woefully out of shape January 07 so to me that shows a lack of respect to his new team and teammates.
Rebecca…
The Yanks would unretire 5 for me, as I’d be that special a player. (Hey, if we’re going to fantasize about having the talent to play MLB, let alone for its greatest team, we might as well go all the way with this.)
Dolomite – You will get a one page Yankees schedule at the beginning of the season. I always print out the one page version. It will be on the Yankee website in the Adobe Reader version.
old fan:
when did i say bobby was a “black hole”
i love the guy. that’s my opinion
I haven’t heard anyone giving Justin Christian a chance to make this team, but it is just possible that Girardi would love to have a designated “runner” on the roster. He is almost an automatic SB when he is on first; in crucial game situations, having a runner for Matsui, Giamb, Duncani or Posada would be a definite plus. After all, the fact that Betamit plays all four infield positions makes another utility infielder a useless luxury, because Alex, Jeter and Cano will hardly ever take a day off. A fifth outfielder makes a lot more sense for the roster, but that person doesn’t really have to be a pinch hitter type, and he is a superior defensive outfielder capable of playing all three outfield positions capably. JC is also not a long term prospect because Brett Gardner is younger and better, so his career most likely tops out as a short term fifth outfielder. It also gives the Yanks an excuse to move Austin Jackson to Scranton early in the season if he starts well in Trenton. All in all, if I were Joe, I would do it.
Fran…thanks for the info!
“However, let’s not relegate Abreu to the role of platoon player yet.”
Bobby will see about 70-75% of his ABs against righties anyway. So… why NOT give the majority of the other ABs to Mench? It keeps him fresh. No reason Bobby can’t sit 1 of 5 games, is there?
“Bobby will see about 70-75% of his ABs against righties anyway. So… why NOT give the majority of the other ABs to Mench?”
Because if Abreu does perform back to his expected career numbers against lefties having mench on the roster would be an inefficient use of a roster spot (unless you think he can also play first and don’t want to keep Duncan on the team).
Again, Abreu’s career OPS against lefties is .766. That is a good OPS for a lefty hitter against a left pitcher. Cano’s OPS against lefties last year was .756 – should the yankees platoon him?
Most lefties have significant drop offs when facing lefty pitching. You can make a decent argument to platoon all of them with a guy like mench. Mench has a career OPS of .924 against lefty pitching.
Very, very few lefty hitters in all of baseball have an .924 OPS against lefties – Ken Griffey Jr. OPS against lefties is .858, so if you platooned him with Mench you’d get considerably more production. Ryan Howard’s career OPS against lefties is .805 – again, mench’s .924 is much better.
You can’t platoon for a lefty hitter who has a good chance to have a .750 or greater OPS against lefty pitching.
If you did you’d be platooning the vast majority of lefty hitters.
It’s something you have to live with given that there aren’t that many lefty pitchers.
I’m not against Mench but he’s a very, very limited player. He does one thing well – hit left handed pitching. He’s terrible against righties (.564 OPS against righties last year, Career .730). He’s not a great defensive player and doesn’t run well.
If don’t expect Abreu to have an OPS against lefties of less than .700 again. I could perhaps buy mench at first or as a general outfield backup maybe but I wouldn’t commit him to a platoon for abreu. Abreu had one of the 2-3 worst years of his career against lefties last year. He’ll rebound.
I’d much rather use the roster spot for a faster outfielder or another infielder than to burn a spot just to platoon Abreu. Just my opinion.
CB,
Cano’s ops against lefties last year is what? Oh here it is .864 and Abreu .678.
I think Abreu should be a platoon player unless he proves he can hit lefties again. Matsui is better against them as well. My point is there should not be a .678 ops batter hitting 3rd in our lineup ever whether it’s against lefties or righties.
“unless you think he can also play first and don’t want to keep Duncan on the team”
I’m not sure about first. We do have a few options there.
I like Shelly more (as a fan) But he and Mench are basically one-dimensional players (unless you count youth exuberance), and Mench will probable have a better OPS then Shelly against righties.
This idea is nothing personal against Abreu.
And yes, it (obviously) only applies if Mench is on the team.
What others players, teams, etc do is not pertainent to this specific conversation.
But it’s true, it probably boils down to Shelly or Mench.
We need Betemin as a BUIF
We need Molina
That leaves 2 spots?
For Lane/Ensberg/Shelly/Mench?
Who else is in the mix?
“Cano’s ops against lefties last year is what? Oh here it is .864 and Abreu .678.”
His career OPS against lefties is .756. My mistake.
I agree that having an .678 OPS guy against lefties is very problematic.
The overall point still stands. My only point is this – Abreu’s career OPS against lefties is .766 it’s not .678.
Abreu’s been an everyday player since 1998. Over the past 10 year period he’s had a sub .700 OPS against lefties twice – in 2000 and last year. After 2000 he rebounded to put up a .731 OPS in 2001 and a .818 OPS against lefties in 2002.
For most of his career he’s been between a .730 – .850 OPS guy against lefties. In 2006 he put up an .840 OPS against lefties.
There’s no evidence over his career that “he can’t hit lefties.” None. One bad season does not mean he’s been bad over the course of his career.
Sure, he’s not as good against lefties but that’s true of nearly all left handed hitters – Ryan Howard, Jim Thome, etc.
IMO its much too early too write off Abreu as an everyday player given his past career performance against lefties. Sure he had a terrible year against lefties last year but that’s one year.
It’s a matter of trade offs. A guy like Mench is very, very, very limited as a ball player and IMO not worth carrying if the idea were to be he’d platoon with Abreu.
There’s high probability Abreu will regress to his mean career performance against lefties and he’ll be fine. He pulled his oblique in spring training and I think that screwed up his mechanics.
Abreu is not Curtis Granderson against lefties. The yankees have a 1000 run offense this year. They can afford a .700 OPS against lefties by their right fielder, especially one that walks that much.
They do need to get more overall right handed hitting this year, but I really feel that they are going to have to platoon at first base this year to do that. That’s the spot that will need the most platoon attention because Betemit,Duncan, Ensberg are limited players.
They can’t platoon first base and right field. That would severely deplete their bench flexibility because the right handed bats they’d carry in the platoons – a mench and ensberg, for example – will be completely useless on the roster for the vast majority of games because they can’t hit right handers at all. They’ll just sit there.
You can afford to carry one guy like that, maybe. But definitely not two. Given that I would go into the season with Abreu as the everday player. I don’t think he’ll put up a .678 OPS against lefties again. Just look at his career production.
First base is the attention position for a platoon, IMO.
I hope shelley can handle it because he gives them more flexibility than either ensberg or mench do because he can play first and two outfield positions.
Man, do I LOATHE Pavano!
http://mlbfleecefactor.com/2008/02/09/yankees-rumors-chamberlain-pavano-woodward/
I can’t believe Mekly is this big “lock” for CF. The guy had probably a bottom 5 OPS for ML outfielders last year.
If (and I understand this is a fairly big if), but if Damon and Matsui are both capable of playing the OF, Melky should be on the bench or traded for anything you can get for him. The upgraded offense a healthy Matsui and Damon would provide would far, far make up for the small defensive downgrade. Melky is way overrated defensively.
Additionally that opens up the DH slot for Giambi. Unless Melky shows some miraculous coming of age and demonstrates he can actually hit, he should be the 4th OF and it’s everyone else’s job to lose.
Bulls-eye, Eric, Bulls-eye !
Easily replaceable; high value now; somebody would love to have him at his ‘cheap’ price.
Does throw well though.
“The upgraded offense a healthy Matsui and Damon would provide would far, far make up for the small defensive downgrade. Melky is way overrated defensively.”
Fortunately for us, the people in charge disagrees with you.
I’ll admit that offensively Melky is barely average but he is not overrated defensively. He has possibly the best CF arm in the bigs.
Having a great arm doesn’t make you a great CF. He rarely gets an opportunity to make an impact with his arm. A few extra outs a year thrown out on the basepaths isn’t all that significant in the end. Of the 15 guys he’ll throw out, how many were definitely going to score if they weren’t thrown out? And of those, how many were in meaningful game-changing situations where the run actually made a difference? 3? 4?
3 or 4 isn’t enough when you consider he’ll score and drive in about 30-40 runs less than a guy like Matsui or Giambi, when those two are given a full healthy season.
He had an awful OBP, awful slugging, was terrible with RISP. Look up the numbers. Obviously the Yankees can “hide” a guy like that in their linup, but that’s the best “excuse” you can have for having him in the lineup every day.
And as good as his arm is, he’s just about average if not worse in every other defensive aspect. He’s not fast, he gets poor jumps, and he doesn’t track the ball well at ALL going back. He made one amazing (lucky?) catch against Manny Ramirez and suddenly everyone thought he was a gold glover. Watch him out there every day and you’ll see he’s often times lost in CF. If you negate the good arm, he’s no better than a healthy Damon in CF, who when he’s right is faster, tracks better, and gets better jumps than Melky.
And for all of Matsui’s defecits in LF, he does a good job of getting to the ball and getting it in quickly. When he’s healthy, he’s absolutely not killing you out there, and when the occasional play comes that he gets burned on it, you sacrifice that, becuase he’s driving in about 40 more runs than Melky, getting on base more often, and hitting more extra base hits.
sequitur: Don’t be so sure that the people running the team disagree with me. Joe “faithful to a fault” Torre isn’t with the team any more. Girardi might be smart enough to play the actual best player at each position, not the guy that he’s somehow got a hunch about like Torre cough Enrique Wilson starting against Pedro Martinez in the playoffs cough