Coverage of the Clemens hearing
-
- February
- 12
WCBS Radio, in conjunction with LoHud.com, will offer streaming audio of the Congressional hearing tomorrow. Here is the link you want to go to.
Also, LoHud.com plans on having columnist Rick Carpiniello live blogging the hearings over at his blog.
I’d love to blog it myself but I’ll be over at the complex watching the workout then crossing the street over to Legends Field for our session with Joe Girardi.
We’ll have the Girardi audio on this blog once he’s finished. The new skipper is meeting with his coaches around 11:30 a.m. and that will probably go for a while, three or four hours. We’ll get him after that.
UPDATE, 10:50 p.m.: Word out of Washington is that Clemens and Brian McNamee will be seated at the same table at the same time during the hearing tomorrow. Meanwhile, Clemens did another lobbying tour today. He has met personally with 25 of the 40 members of the committee.
It’s unclear whether the information will prove fatal to his case, but there are reports that Andy Pettitte’s testimony will be damaging to Clemens.
It’s going to be quite a day in baseball history tomorrow.
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on Tuesday, February 12th, 2008 at 9:32 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Peter Abraham
Yeah!! Yankee baseball!!
Thanks Pete.
I’ll, of course, be in class.
However, I’m not particularly anxious to listen to it, so I think I’ll be okay.
There are a lot of things that I think about missing work for. This isn’t one of them.
I’ll dvr it and skim it when I get home.
I’ll also be stuck in classes all day, Rebecca. This whole school thing better pay off in the end, right?
But, like Jennifer, I’ve got the DVR running for quite a few hours tomorrow and will probably end up skimming through most of it.
repost:
Jennifer,
Try using the disk cleanup utility if you haven’t already. It’s right under disk defrag. If your computer still loads all your programs correctly I doubt you have to be a new one as of yet.
Try this as well.
http://searchwincomputing.techtarget.com/generic/0,295582,sid68_gci1276041,00.html
Let me know if you need any more help and I’ll try as best as I can.
Mench signed with the Rangers.
http://www.roochnation.com
i wish george mitchell were running for office so i could vote for someone else.
if you notice, mccain isn’t saying anything about the proceedings tomorrow after being an outspoken critic of baseball and it’s steroid policy. this is a hot potato that no one running for election wants to touch. not even a true believer like mccain. he knows it could cost him votes.
whether or not individual players used steroids and other peds, heavy handedness by the government to prosecute individuals who are part of a systemic problem in baseball doesn’t win votes for anyone. i have no doubt that there has been abuse by the government in the collection of evidence used in the mitchell report. the judicial system in california is already displeased with the way evidence has been gathered by the government there.
when you can’t tell the good guys from the bad guys, it’s hard to watch a drama play out. all i can say is that i would have no problem throwing a baseball around with andy pettitte or roger clemens. i wouldn’t be caught in the same room with radomsky or mcnamee.
the government says it’s worried about the children, but what kind of message does it send when it says you can sell drugs for years and be given no jail time or get total immunity if you have some information that you can sell to the government?
the system stinks.
3 or 4 hours? I thought Torre was gone.
I’d rather watch pitchers run rather than a catfight between two grown men.
I just hope no one gets shot.
The article linked below is the first media report I have seen that at least raises questions about Mitchell and the government’s actions in this matter.
I’ve generally liked Bryant’s coverage, and I think this article is stellar.
He doesn’t raise one of the biggest questions I have about the report (that they didn’t call Canseco to check McNamee’s story), but he does point out the implications of Mitchell’s lead investigator being called in to the hearing.
One problem I have with the article is he is following the media’s narrative that there was something wrong with Clemens visits with the congresscritters. I suspect the committee members are going to be harsh with Clemens just to refute the totally made-up notion that they were starstruck.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?id=3242380
So now apparently Pettitte told congress that Roger Clemens talked about using HGH.
Does anyone know how DeSalvo went to the braves?
clare-
check out this if you want more details of government investigation problems:
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=li-ilstonnovitzky021008&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
“Does anyone know how DeSalvo went to the braves?”
He was taken off the 40-man roster to make room for someone else and, as such, was designated for assignment and signed with the braves
nice points randy and thanks for the link clare
randy,
very, very interesting.
Did you see Hardin’s remarks about Waxman? Something about how he was going overboard and even his own committee didn’t support him? That seems to me to be a very questionable move, at best.
Hi Dave!
How’s Boston? I just got tix for my first game ever at Fenway (final weekend of the season). I’m psyched.
Randy, Dave, – are you guys planning on watching tomorrow? Sadly I can’t, because my flight home tonight was cancelled, and I didn’t set the DVR before I left.
I’m most interested in what they ask Mitchell’s investigator. I can’t decide if it’s too much to hope for that they are going to delve into the problems with the report, or if he’s just being called to prop up the report and refute Canseco’s affidavit.
Hey, guys, it’s on Yankees.com that Joba is starting in the pen
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080212&content_id=2371404&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy
thoughts?
Personally, I think he might be better suited for the pen but it’s an absolute crime not to at least try him as a starter.
“but it’s an absolute crime not to at least try him as a starter.”
Um…if you read the whole article, you’ll see that they WILL use him as a starter in the second half. He was going to have to spend time in the pen — or skip a month or two. There’s no helping that.
Rebecca,
Blogging foul!
You really did NOT mean to restart the pen/starter debate, now did you?
clare-
i have no idea what hardin is thinking with his statements about waxman. it seems like clemens would be better off without hardin ticking off waxman, but maybe that’s hardin’s intention to have waxman lose his cool.
the one thing i know is that tomorrow will not go as anyone expects- haze of war and all that. whoever keeps his cool will probably be perceived the winner. as murphydog said earlier this week, mcnamee’s life depended on being a good liar as a nyc narc so he may have a veneer that stands up to questioning at least to a point. hard to say because he came across so poorly in the taped phone call to clemens. i’m sure the government did not want the american public to hear radomsky and and mcnamee speak at the same time as their key witnesses. they both are who they are. clemens isn’t that articulate , but he’s had to speak before cameras most of his adult life so he should be able to handle the pressure.
but whether he can is why they play the game. we’ll see. clemens strangling mcnamee live on national tv probably won’t win him points.
i’m not looking forward to it simply because it feels like an attack on the yankees and on players in general.
What?
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5536814.html
Andy said that Roger told him he used HGH in 2000. Then is that still Andy that says that in 2005, Roger told him he never used HGH but his wife did? What??
hey Clare,
sorry, just finished reading both articles. I can’t say it makes me feel better about our government.
anyway, that’s great that you got tickets. They are seemingly impossible to get so congrats on scoring some. I’m trying to get some tickets for the April 10-12 weekend against the Yanks. That’s not going so well
I won’t get to watch but I hope to listen in with the link Pete posted. I would love to think they’d question Mitchell’s investigator but I am starting to get the feeling that the Committee members have tomorrow pretty much scripted out in their heads and will be attempting to crucify Roger. We’ll see… I’ve said all along that whether or not Roger is guilty, I wish more people would realize the issues and problems with the way this was handled. Mitchell and MLB don’t deserve to get off without any blame. I almost hope that Clemens “wins” for that reason alone.
rebecca, yankees.com is only repeating that the ny post says joba will begin in the pen. i dont think that changes anything from earlier today.
Also, about what pettitte said or didnt say, i can only find references to “media reports” or “published reports” that pettite backed up mcnamee. in the end these reports all seem to go back to rep davis from yesterday.
() =)
rep davis back off repeating that statement on tuesday
Hey Dave,
Good luck with the tix. I’m still trying to get some for the rest of the final series (and I’m really hoping that the Yankees have clinched the division before that weekend
– that would really reduce my stress level).
Did you guys see that, as we all predicted, McNamee removed Clemens’ suit to federal court? They did make one mistake, however; they didn’t answer it prior to removal – now they have to file a federal court answer, and admit or deny every single allegation (whereas if they filed the answer in state court, they could have just done a one-paragraph general denial).
I don’t know if a lot of you use MLB.TV, but I live in New York but goto college in New York, and audio isn’t feeding my Yankee addiction
I’m buying the 400k package for the months I’m at college. I just have a fews questions before I commit to the money.
So dumb but wanna make sure hah: It’s audio along with the video right lol?
Is it the cbs/yes announcers (kay, on’iell, singleton, flaherty) and not the radio (sterling)
And lastly, how many times do the games freeze per year, and for how long? And does both the audio and visual freeze or just visual?
Real sorry but this will help so much if you guys can gimme some info!!! And sorry I haven’t been able to post for a while I’ve been back at U of Delaware getting back to the swing of things. Thanks guys hope you can help! Go Yanks!
More nonsense from the government:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/13/sports/baseball/13clemens.html?pagewanted=2&ref=sports
In another article by Wilson & Schmidt (who have shown themselves unable to think for themselves or confront sources who tell them different stories a couple of weeks apart), we have the latest garbage.
According to this article, there are new unnamed leakers who say Pettitte contradicts Clemens, and also that the Committee has independent evidence (which they don’t disclose) against Clemens. However, the article also says that the Committee will not be referring the matter to the DOJ for a perjury prosecution (as they did with Tejeda) leaving that to DOJ.
WTF? And what are the motives of these unnamed leakers? Anonymous sources really, really bug me, especially without enough information given to evaluate the source or the motives. We all know what the NYTimes has done with anonymous sources in the past (i.e. let them lie to them without any consequences at all).
Clemens and McNamee are both locked in. Neither can change his story after coming this far and testifying under oath. Each will tell his own story before Congress and deny the other’s version. In the end no one will be able to prove whether Clemens or McNamee is the monstrous liar between them.
Shepard,
You get the audio/video with MLBTV, of either YES or the away-team broadcast (IIRC).
How often it freezes is entirely dependent on how good your internet connection is. I’ve been in hotels trying to get games and been ready to shoot people because it froze so often it was absolutely impossible to watch. However with a decent connection it works well.
There are blackout restrictions, however, and I don’t know how they work if you’re in NY.
Shepherd-
I used that package for the first time last year. To answer your questions:
It is indeed audio along with video.
It is not the radio announcing audio.
I had trouble with freezing a bit last year, especially later in the year. Some of that I now believe was due to my cable connection, because I was told a couple weeks ago that my cable modem was outdated (6 years old) and couldn’t handle the bandwidth properly for some applications. We’ll see what happens this year.
But for me – living in lexington KY after growing up in Jersey – I’ll take even a Yankee broadcast that freezes up occasionally. IMO, it was well worth the 19.95/month I spent on it last year.
Hope that helps.
Sucks here at school, sling box is the way to go. Best invention of the millennium…
sling box?
I agree that SlingBox would be good if you can get that set up. MLB.tv is great if its your only option. I have a solid internet connection with good bandwidth and still had some freezing. I live in MA and most weekend games and games against the Mets were blacked out (in addition to Red Sox but I assume that’s because of my location). I still would rather have that than nothing at all though.
Someone on this blog posted a link where you could watch the games online for free however. Not sure if anyone knows about that?
Shepherd,
at least from what I know and have seen, its a device that you can hook up to your cable box (at home or elsewhere) and streams everything over the web. Anything you can watch at home, you can watch via the web (would probably work better than MLB.tv because there wouldn’t be the same bandwidth restrictions). So I think unless you could have someone in NY set it up on their tv, I guess it wouldnt work for you.
I never thought of that idea, but I actually may ask a friend in NY to try it for me.
What this committee should be doing is looking into why our tax dollars were spent on an investigation that Mitchell got paid millions for. Why did the Federal Government have their investigators involved with the testimony given by Radomski and McNamee to Mitchell? What reimbursement was given by Mitchell for all the time spent by these investigators?
I also want to know how I, as a regular citizen can get such a sweet money making deal as Mitchell got.
Mitchell acted in a pompous manner, he, a lawyer, former judge, former senator, put this together in a way that denied the players their constitutional right of due process. Think about that. A man who is supposed to uphold the constitution instead denies its rights for his own purposes. On top of that he profited from it. Not only from the putting together of the report, which he got mainly through our tax dollars, but also through benefit that his team gets through causing turmoil for its biggest rival.
This is yet another example of government abuse.
Regardless of the guilt or innocence of Clemens, this should cause the fans of baseball to voice their displeasure. Unfortunately, for far too many, they have displaying glee over Clemens problems and don’t seem to care about the abuse of power that was used here. The abuse also of our tax dollars that continue to be wasted on this Clemens/McNamee smoke screen.
Mitchell counted on the names obscuring a far larger problem.
Clare,
It bothers me also. But I also know better than to rush to any wild assumptions based on these anonymous sources. What does it mean that Pettitte contradicts Clemens? That could mean he said he knows Roger took PEDs to something as trivial as he isnt sure if Roger was at a party or not.
Guess we’ll see.
Old Goat,
if you haven’t already, read the article that Randy L posted.
I am not a fan of Barry Bonds, but after reading that article it’s clear that his case was also likely mishandled. Some members of the government and its agencies seem to think they can do what they want when they want. When is there going to be recourse?
If Roger does in fact “pass the test” tomorrow, do you think Mitchell is going to apologize?
Of course not. He will say that Roger is a liar til the end of day. I bet that even if McNamee says he embellished or fabricated some of his report on Clemens, Mitchell would still say Roger was 100% guilty. He isn’t willing to accept that he was wrong in any way.
old goat
what about all the millions of tax dollars going into the new yankee stadium, which will be a very profitable property of the yankees? you seem a bit selective about which tax waste to get upset about
YJust,
I think that is a good point. I don’t think that justifies government involvement in the MLB PED issue, but that is a valid point. I think the process for obtaining tax dollars to fund a stadium is quite different and is less likely to be considered abuse though. There seems to be much more possible abuse of power in the Mitchell Report and Congressional Hearings.
http://proxy.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3242017
If they’re prosecuting Bonds there’s no way on earth that they can avoid prosecuting Clemens, not in an election year. If Bonds is going down so unquestionably will Clemens.
personally i think congress has every right to investigate. remember, the purpose of the hearing is to investigate roger’s claim that he was wronged by the mitchell report.
Considering that baseball relies on its anti-trust exemption to operate, and also because baseball asks for and gets billions in subsidies (in the form of stadium construction funds) i think baseeball has no right to complain that its being investigated.
harry,
i think you should read the link randy l. posted. if that article is accurate, i wouldnt count on Bonds going down anytime soon.
just my opinion –
if congress is going to do an investigation, they should do a more complete investigation on the mitchell report and not just roger clemens. they should investigate bud selig and all of MLB. we’ll see if that happens. dont hold your breath.
the committee said “we give alot of credibility to the Mitchell Report”.
WHY??? dont you think they should investigate the process used in creating the report, in addition to how evidence was collected, etc? They asked once, Mitchell said “no”, and they acquiesced. What a joke.
wow its really not looking good for roger is it. apparently pettitte said rocket admitted he did hgh and later tried to say it was debbie? OUCH!
bd
the had fehr and selig before them last week. the purpose of this hearing and investigation is roger’s complaints about the mitchell report.
p.s.
just my opinion -
I don’t think the issue is that Congress doesn’t have a right to investigate.
I think the point is that there should be so many more higher priorities that the committee should focus on first.
also, as many have said, usually the government investigates the drug dealers, not the users. they certainly dont give the dealers immunity in an effort to nail an alleged drug user.
just my opinion –
how can you justify them not getting the documentation on how the mitchell report evidence was obtained?
mitchell said “no” and they didnt pursue it. this is a half-assed investigation. that’s all. i am not saying its not warranted, just that they are doing a horrible job at it… and id rather they spent their time on more serious issues. going after one alleged PED user IMO is sickening. even if it turns out he is guilty.
just my opinion -
they also had Mitchell before them. but they apologized to him for keeping him late… because Mitchell had a train to catch.
what a joke.
just my opinion
Yeah, they had Selig and Fehr before them, but hardly asked any tough questions, and with Mitchell they were only concerned about how much praise they could heap upon him before he had to catch a train. That hearing was a joke.
As Dave said, the question isn’t whether they have the right to investigate, the question is one of priorities, but also whether they are interested in investigating, or just propping up their former colleague’s inept, incomplete and biased report, and in punishing or intimidating anyone with the temerity to challenge it.
Roger asked for this, and i’m afraid he’s gonna get alot more than he was bargaining for. There’s a good chance he’s headed to prison.
just my opinion -
why is that OUCH?
If I told you something 10 years ago, then you ask me about it again 3 years ago and I say “no dude, thats not what i said. i said this”….
its not good… but its not enough to convict roger. why would roger tell andy the truth 10 years ago and then lie to him 3 years ago?
dayum,
he’s not going to prison unless roger fesses up or we see some indisputable, hard evidence. there has been nothing remotely close thus far that would hold up in a true court case… at least enough to prove that roger is lying.
anyway,
doesnt make much sense to speculate so much when we may learn more tomorrow morning.
good night everyone. let’s just hope all parties are treated fairly.
I definitely don’t think that Clemens should go to prison for any of this, despite what I think about his apparent lack of truthfulness.
WASHINGTON (AP) — Roger Clemens told Yankees teammate Andy Pettitte nearly 10 years ago that he used human growth hormone, Pettitte said in a sworn affidavit to Congress, The Associated Press learned Tuesday.
Pettitte disclosed the conversation to the congressional committee holding Wednesday’s hearing on drug use in baseball, a person familiar with the affidavit said. The person spoke to the AP on condition of anonymity because the document had not been made public.
According to the person familiar with the affidavit, who said it was signed Friday night, Pettitte also said Clemens backtracked when the subject of HGH came up again in conversation in 2005, before the same House committee held the first hearing on steroids in baseball.
I hope Andy gets an ovation at YS like he’s never gotten before on opening day. He deserves it and he really seems to have taken everything hard this winter. I think that knowing Yankee fans are behind him would do a great deal of good for him. Nice story from Newsday:
http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-sphow0213b,0,5812268.column
cupaJoba,
nice of you to conveniently cut off the post.
for those who want to read the full article and not CupaJoba’s edited version, see my link posted 30min earlier.
Andy will be treated very warmly by Yankee fans. On the road, probably not so much.
whoa jeez.. lighten up cowboy.
I gave the meat and potatoes of the story, which was “Clemens told Andy he took steroids 10 years ago.” Didn’t know you needed every detail.
Nothing of it was edited either.
Peter-According Buster Onley today on ESPN the Yankees could receive Joe Blanton for a package of single-A players. I dont know if thats true but if it is I think CashMan should emediately do it. It might clog our rotation a bit but as Boston found out a couple years ago you can never have too much pitching. He’d be a 200+ inning eater and would allow Kennedy to spend more time in AAA if Mussina can keep his rotation spot. And we know there will be injuries at some point. Do you think its a possibility or is Buster just talking out of his backside?
If Pettitte says Clemens used HGH and/ or anything else, he is a rat plain and simple because he used HGH. Whatever Pettitte says is hearsay unless he has physical evidence that Clemens took anything.
Brian McNamee is a desperate, pathetic, obsessed, stalker-like man going after Clemens like this:
1. Asking Clemens to call him back then what to do 21X in that callback.
2. Keeping bloodstained medical waste he claims is from Clemens for 6+ years which was no doubt laced with steroids.
3. Going after Clemens’ wife.
4. Asking Clemens for money, jobs, and who knows what else in numerous emails and phonecalls.
If you believe a man like this, you are even lower than he is and like him has an axe to grind with Clemens, no doubt bourne from envy and jealousy over his life and a dissatisfaction and low self-esteem about yours.
Ef “the court of public opinion” cuz how would you like it if someone accused you of something you didn’t do and it got out there so much, people believed it? That’s what this country has turned into? The more a lie is told, the more it becomes the truth? Hopefully someone will come after your name and we’ll see how you like it, witch-hunter.
If Brian Mcnamee is such a low life why did Clemens keep him as a friend even when the Yankees fired him after the rape accusations.Clemens needed someone to do his dirty work and like most powerfull rich peoplehe used a guy but this guy knew he will get caught and be penniless while Clemens and Pettitte are looked as clean players and live happy rich lives and Brian goes to jail so Clemens can go to the Hall of Fame.
Clemens knew Brian was a bad guy but needed a low life and now it came back on him and he deserves it.Don’t worry he will still be a millionare after all this.
I don’t want Blanton.
Uhhhh cuz they were rape ACCUSATIONS. Unlike you, Clemens believes in innocent until proven guilty and last I checked, McNamee never did or will serve time for rape. Clemens didn’t use McNamee to procure steroids cuz there’s no physical proof. 6+ bloodstained medical waste is not proof esp. when that’s well over 2,000 days to doctor it (6 years x 365 days a year + leap years + extra days). Clemens is rich, but since when is he powerful? Spare me your “the rich are bad” nonsense.
Why would McNamee know he would be caught? Where I’m from, anything you do illegally is on you and you are a rat if you say others did it to save your own as s. He made his bed, now he should lie in it instead of lying to Congress about Clemens cuz he’s caught up in his own pathetic life.
Clemens did not know McNamee was a bad guy or need a lowlife, nothing “came back to him”, and I could care less what Clemens’ financial stead is after this. I mean are you McNamee’s friend or something?
I, unlike you, do know that Clemens became a first-ballot Hall Of Famer by winning three Cy Young Awards in 1986, 1987, and 1991 years before he was allegedly using anything, and he won a fourth Cy in 1997, the year before McNamee, etc. have accused him of taking steroids (1998), so all this drama is just that…and nonsense.
Oh yeah, Superbad su cked.
And why don’t you want Blanton “whoa”? Too much experience? I take Blanton in a heartbeat if it just requires A-level players who will most likely never don a Yankee uniform let alone any MLB uniform.
Let’s horde minor leaguers so they can produce in the minors and never use them to get MLB-ready players the big, real club needs/ could use because well anyone could be a keeper. With that logic let’s never make trades.
Wang/ Mussina/ Hughes/ Blanton/ Mussina w/ Kennedy as backup sure beats Wang/ Mussina/ Hughes/ Mussina/ Kennedy w/ Igawa and/ or Pavano as backup.
Parade Rain-
So I guess you think OJ is innocent right.Clemens knew of the rape allegations.Also the reason Mcnamee kept all that stuff was he was a police officer once and knew he will be in this situation one day.I’m not saying rich people are bad but in the end Clemens was gonna be rich and a “clean player” while Mcnamee would have nothing after helping Clemens and Pettitte cheat.You never know maybe Clemens did something to Mcnamee to cause Mcnamee to rat on CLemens and HGH Pettitte.
Also before all this Pettitte and Clemens were friends and now all of sudden that Pettitte who had left New York to join Clemens his idol in Houston 5 years ago is just gonna lie after imlicating himself.
If Pettitte never said he toook HGH which he didn’t have to admit because there like Clemens was no good evidence but why would he say he took HGH when he never had anything to gain (I admit Mcnamee had more to gain implicating Clemens and Pettitte).Pettitte testimony saying Mcnamee was right about Clemens is bascially 80% why Clemens is guilty .Pettitte had nothing to gain implicating Clemens Thats why Clemens is looking guilty compared M because the only person backing up Clemens is Canseco but I bet thats a reliable source because why would Canseco help Clemensd even though he didn’t implicate Ordonez because he wanted money out of him.But hey you know the answers.Pettitte is the most reliable source Clemens had because for years they were partners in baseball.
Superbad ws hilrious.
Well gee McLovin, a court of law (which you are not) found O.J. innocent and I can’t condone locking up a man for life or executing him because a key prosecutor’s witness Mark Furhman, an L.A.P.D. detective, was found to have called black people the n-word and L.A.P.D. planted evidence in O.J.’s white minivan. So let’s not go down that tired, old, paved over road okay? Marcia Clark accepted the loss (and did quite well for herself on the blood of Nicole Brown with the launching of “Court TV” from the case didn’t she?), so you accept it.
So what Clemens knew of the rape allegations? Again, they were ALLEGATIONS not a CONVICTION. So you’re saying McNamee planned this all along and you’re cool with it. THANK YOU for showing you’re even lower than he is, thing is Clemens didn’t use anything. I’m still waiting for the proof and don’t give me the doctored 6+ year old medical waste. McNamee didn’t help Pettitte and Clemens cheat and b.t.w. big deal Pettitte used HGH in 2002? The 103-58 Yanks who would’ve won the division with a 94-68 record (check the standings) got spanked in the first round. Clemens didn’t do anything to anyone cuz he didn’t take any steroids or HGH cuz there’s no proof. Pettitte is gonna lie to save his a s s from further investigation. Pettitte’s testimony is hearsay with no physical proof and b.t.w. besides being McNamee’s friend are you a baliff or stenographer in the hearing room? Cuz you seem to know an awful lot about what Pettitte said. Oh yeah if McNamee helped both cheat why is everyone going after Clemens press-wise?
Because Pettitte the admitted HGH user says Clemens did it, it’s so. Ridiculous. If Pettitte said Clemens did anything, he is a rat plain and simple and did way more than HGH for “just a few days in 2002″. You wanna say someone did something, then time to look at you closer. No way Pettitte wants that. If Sammy “The Bull” Gravano could rat on John Gotti, anyone could rat on anyone cuz Gotti considered Gravano his closest confidant and friend.
Superbad was overhyped, overadvertised, wannabe 1980s toilet humor teen movie garbage and typical Hollywood propaganda. The movie plays into the stereotype that the uncool, unpopular kids need something more than being themselves to be accepted by others esp. girls and that’s garbage.
Let’s see some possible motives for why Clemens would use steroids and/ or HGH beginning with his second season with the Toronto Blue Jays (1998):
1. He wanted another big long-term contract.
NOT A MOTIVE: HE JUST GOT ONE FROM TORONTO AFTER 1996.
2. He wanted an edge to be a surefire Hall Of Famer.
NOT A MOTIVE: HE ALREADY BECAME A FIRST-BALLOT HALL OF FAMER WITH HIS 1986, 1987, AND 1991 A.L. CY YOUNG AWARDS AND CEMENTED INDUCTION AS THAT WITH HIS FOURTH CY IN 1997.
3. He wasn’t or didn’t think he was any good.
NOT A MOTIVE: HE WAS THE 1997 A.L. CY YOUNG AWARD WINNER.
4. He felt Toronto needed an edge to overcome the Yankees and Red Sox.
NOT A MOTIVE: HE WAS SO GOOD IN 1997, HE DIDN’T NEED TO FIX WHAT WASN’T BROKE.
5. He needed something to withstand the rigors of playing ball and traveling.
NOT A MOTIVE: HE WOULDN’T HAVE SIGNED A LONG-TERM DEAL WITH A TEAM WHO PLAYS MORE THAN HALF THEIR GAMES ON ARTIFICIAL TURF (81 GAMES IN TORONTO + MINNESOTA, K.C., TAMPA BAY & INTERLEAGUE GAMES AT ARTIFICIAL TURF BALLPARKS) IF HE WAS CONCERNED ABOUT HIS BODY BREAKING DOWN THUS HIS CAREER BEING CUT SHORT.
6. He wanted to be considered a great pitcher.
NOT A MOTIVE: HE WAS ALREADY A GREAT PITCHER BY 1991, AFTER HE WON HIS THIRD CY.
7. He wanted the Yankees to want him more so he could join them and have a better chance to win the World Series than he’d have with Toronto.
NOT A MOTIVE: HE OPTED TO SIGN WITH TORONTO AFTER THE YANKEES AGRESSIVELY PURSUED HIM WHEN HE BECAME A FREE AGENT AND GEORGE STEINBRENNER ALWAYS COVETED CLEMENS.
Other motives for Clemens to use stuff from 1998 with why they are not valid in caps:
He was bored with being 4X Cy Young Award winner-great without using anything. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
He was old. HE WAS ALREADY OLD WHEN HE WON HIS FOURTH CY.
He was done. HE WAS BACK TO BEING GREAT AFTER BEING LOUSY 1993-96 IN 1997.
He was fat and/ or out of shape. STEROIDS ARE USED TO INCREASE STRENGTH AND BULK UP, NOT GET PEOPLE TO LOSE WEIGHT AND/ OR BACK IN SHAPE.
If he was such a cheater, how come no one accused him of being one when he was racking up Cy Young Awards through 1991? I would think he would’ve cheated then out of all the stages of his career. Or is it all about retroactively saying he/ someone did it? “Yeah, I didn’t know he did it then but know I know..even though I had years to look into it as he was doing great (1986-93), when he sucked (1993-97) and after he last sucked (1997-2007)PBBBBBBBTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!
Why didn’t anyone look at him when he was at his worst (1993-96 – he had a good 1992 despite his record)?
How ’bout we take a look at Mike Piazza who’s been a shell of himself offensively ever since he turned 33 yet old Posada just got a 4-year contract, old I-Rod is still a decent player and solid defender, and Carlton Fisk caught more games after age 33 then before 33? Piazza can’t even get a part-time or full-time DH job last I checked.
Let’s look at some RED SOX shall we?
MIKE LOWELL. Awful in 2005, 20 HR/ 80 RBI decent in 2006, George Brett in 2007 at his oldest age. HUH???
DAVID ORTIZ. Can’t run, throw, or play the field. Had an irregular heartbeat at 34 last year. Steroids are known to cause heart problems.
MANNY RAMIREZ. Typical BA and OBP, but a major dropoff in HR: 20 last year, his lowest total since the strike-shortened 1994, lowest full-season total since 1993.
He’s 35-36, not exactly an old man. Broken down Giambi smacked only 6 less HR than him last year. What’s up with that?
CURT SCHILLING. How does a fatso like him get a guaranteed $8M? Why is he the only M.L.B. pitcher to repeatedly, publicly run his mouth about the evils of steroids and how Clemens should forfeit his recent Cy Young Awards? I find him curiously vocal about steroids.
Parasde Rain-
In the End Pettitte is the key suspect.THere are the closest friends.He destroys alot of Clemens crediblity in the end.
How could Andy “talk” ??
I would never inform on another player (except Schilling).
2004* ??? -
Oh, cool.
let’s start bashing Boston, I new I missed baseball for a reason!!!
The heart of Boston’s lineup is one Geritol® tablet away from a complete breakdown
nice of parade to call andy pettitte a rat. he apparently thinks pettitte should expose himself to perjury charges to help roger out. id like to see parade lie to congress to protect a cheater and go to prison to avoid being a “rat.”
Clemens is just as screwed as Bonds.McNamee may be slime but Pettite,Knoblauch and Radomski have backed him up.Im totally amazed Clemens and that idiot Rusty Hardin are taking the approach they are.Hope theyre ready for an audit too.
Y’s Guy-
it’s already happened. Arthur Miller told Congress to go to hell when they demanded information on various people. They cited him for contempt, but he had the conviction overturned.
yeah, so arthur miller got away with it, so andy pettitte should take a chance of going to jail cause arthur miller did it. you’re not giving out legal advice are you?
Pettitte is no hero in this, he is an admitted cheater but he’s doing the right thing to tell the truth and put this behind him. andy’s not puttnig roger in trouble, roger is. Andy has no reason to lie or cover up for him
Wow -
A person goes to sleep and misses out on the one of the best conversations of the night.
Clare and Randy l —
I just skimmed your links, but plan to read more in depth later this morning. So, far, it’s raised my eyebrows more than a bit.
O/T a little bit, but this morning in the Star Ledger there was an article about Citi Field (Mets new stadium). The article mentioned there would be 12,000 fewer seats, and that most of the seating would be in the lower levels. However, in contrast to the article regarding the new Yankee Stadium, there was no suggestion that this would be a bad thing for the average fan. Also in stark contrast to the Yankee Stadium article, there was no mention whatsoever of luxury boxes, so I did a research of my own. Whereas the Yankees have been quite upfront about the additional luxury boxes, you had to do some digging to find out that there will be 9 additional luxury suites at Citi Field. I just found the bias to be very interesting.
Pete -
I think you have the plum assignment for the day. I know I’d rather be where you are! I will probably drop in on the Clemens/McNamee proceedings, but I doubt I’ll be watching gavel to gavel.
I can’t wait to hear from you regarding Girardi’s meetings today.
Pettitte wouldn’t have perjured himself. If the question to Pettitte was did he and Clemens ever talk about using steroids and/ or HGH, he could’ve merely said “no” then the burden of proof would be on the Department Of Justice to prove Pettitte is lying. And how would they do that?
You don’t use HGH, admit to it, then say you and pal talked about using steroids/HGH even if you did. You did it, so for you to incriminate your friend whether or not he talked with you makes you a rat. And so what if they talked? That doesn’t mean Clemens said he wanted to take stuff. I mean does Pettitte have audio and/ or video of it? No, so it’s hearsay Clemens can merely deny. Even if Clemens said he talked about using stuff, you don’t tattletale on him, your friend. Again this is just hearsay cuz all Clemens has to do is say he and Pettitte never talked about taking steroids/ HGH moreover Clemens never said he wanted to use them. Then the ball is in Pettitte’s court. If I did something illegal and a friend of mine talked about following suit, that’s right, I wouldn’t say we talked cuz that’s all it was: talking. I don’t rat out my friends unlike you. Perjury -scherjury.
B.t.w. it’s safe to say countless of people who post on here have consumed illegal drugs including cocaine which countless innocent people have been murdered over in the trade for it, so any of you who smoke marijuana and/ or use coke among other stuff get off your high-horse. Maybe you’re one of them? ‘Know what? I’m not.
Pettitte should retire or be traded a.s.a.p. because he is causing a major distraction to the Yankees preparing for 2008 thus doing a disservice to his teammates. If he spoke out against Clemens, he should be shunned by every retired and current MLB player incl. his current Yankee teammates incl. Jeter, Rivera, and Posada.
parade
nobody is going to go to jail for using ped’s in this case. roger is setting himself up to go to prison by lying to congress. so you’re advice to pettitte is to lie to cover for roger and probably nobody will ever find out?
also regarding a miller, im not familiar with the incident but your post suggests the he was found in contempt and tried. so you think andy should lie and expose himself to a citation for contempt and a trial bacause in the end, arthur miller got away with it?
You guys both seem to want pettitte to back clemmens up even under threat of improsonment and the end of his baseball career?
like i said above, i hope you’re not giving out legal advice.
Y’s Guy, don’t feed the trolls.
The problem for Clemens will be if he gets caught lying. That is why Marion Jones was sentenced to jail time -for lying to the Feds, not for her PED use. The Olympic committee took care of that punishment.
Since when is an untaped, private conversation between two people (Pettitte and Clemens) without context not overheard by anyone in 1999 or whenever solid proof of anything? It isn’t. YOU COME UP WITH AN AUDIOTAPE AND/OR VIDEOTAPE OF THE CONVO/S, cuz if you can’t, it either never happened or the subject of steroids/HGH was broached and there is absolutely no context whatsoever thus no definitive “Clemens wanted to take stuff”.
I believe in innocent until proven guilty, what our country’s legal system is founded on. Too bad most of your media-brainwashed sheeple don’t. As much as I’m tempted to hope you get accused of something you didn’t do and go to jail for it, I won’t cuz I’m a true American who believes in the right to a fair trial, unlike you.
parade, you’ve twisted it all the way around to, “if nobody heard him say it he didnt say it?” Lets be straight about this, what you want pettitte to do is lie.
One other thing, perhaps in this moment of trial pettitte, a devout christian thing has decided that the morally correct thing for him to do it to tell the truth.
the truth will set you free
If ever there was a day for Clemens to bang his fist, today would be the day. Where has Pollyanna Porkchop been for all this nonsense?
Y’s guy
Who the hell are you, not a member of Congress, to say Roger lied to Congress?!! I can say he didn’t lie to Congress cuz INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY, what our justice system is founded on.
I hope you’re not a grand jury cuz you’re ready to find Clemens guilty with no physical proof that he took anything, just the word of two rats (McNamee and Pettitte).
To clarify, private conversation between two friends should stay that way, that’s right. I’m not a little tattletale like you and Pettitte. B.t.w. were you privvy to the convo? I wsn’t, try admitting you weren’t either.
Would Pettitte have said anything had he not got caught (cuz he definitely got caught)? NO! So he’s no angel.
Andy Pettitte is no rat. The real rat said barely enough in the 1st day of Congreesional hearings then darted out a side door to go open his mail at Fenway Park.
“a private conversation between 2 people should stay that way” would be nice but since andy was deposed under oath, this is no longer the case, and that’s roger’s fault not pettites.
and i never said clemmens lied, i only said that you have advocated pettitte lying to cover up for him
pettitte would b stupid to lie for clemmens. let clemmens deal with his own problem, andy doesnt need to get in any deeper than he is already
Um first off don’t put words in my mouth.
I’m telling you again, if you didn’t read my last post:
FRIENDS KEEP PRIVATE CONVERSATIONS PRIVATE SAVE MURDER AND RAPE CONFESSIONS OR DECLARATIONS TO COMMIT EITHER OR BOTH.
Let’s say Clemens told Pettitte he wanted to take HGH. SO WHAT?!! It’s WORDS, not ACTIONS, and if they are actions, they must be PROVEN in a COURT OF LAW to have happened.
Don’t preach to me, preacherman. Pettitte isn’t telling the truth. He is either lying about having a convo with Clemens and or spinning a real convo to make it like Clemens said he wanted to use stuff. And you don’t want Clemens to be set free, spare me that cr ap.
Over many years in law enforcement almost every single defendant I have seen take the stand has lied. They lie about what they can get away with lying about. They lie about what they have to lie about. Some lie about everything after stating their name. I have never seen one tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth. But I have also seen the witnesses for the prosecution do a fair job of slapping the truth around at times.
But I have never in my experience seen a criminal defendant prosecuted for lying at a trial. Why? If the defendant is acquitted, the lies were good enough to convince the trial jury, so it’s unlikely that a later jury would find those same lies to be perjury. Also, pursuing the acquitted defendant for perjury looks vindictive, like a second bite at the apple.
On the other hand, if he is convicted, he’s already being punished because the jury didn’t believe him, so why prosecute him for perjury.
I have seen government witnesses, usually cops, prosecuted for perjury, however, or forced from their jobs for lying under oath. It’s expected and largely accepted that defendants will lie; it’s not accepted that the government folks do. Prosecutors will try to prove a cop’s lie beyond a reasonable doubt – - not as easy as it sounds – - long before they try to prove that about a defendant or other witness.
Yet it’s in these quasi-judicial settings – - not a trial, but not a consequences-free interview either – - that perjury is thrown around so freely by people unfamiliar with how the criminal justice system works. I’m not saying it cannot happen, but I’m betting against a perjury rap for Roger. I’m thinking that in such a prosecution, the government ultimately would have to lay bare their full participation in the Mitchell investigation and turn over lots of paperwork they would prefer not be seen. Ditto Mitchell and the pretty boys at DLA Piper and Selig. There’s a lot of reasons nobody in government wants to see a perjury prosecution of Roger, so let’s hold off on handing that angry mob their pitchforks and torches for now.
The Bonds situation is different. He is in trouble because he played the Feds for fools in his immunity deal. You cannot accept an immunity deal and then pretend in your Grand Jury testimony that you didn’t do the thing for which you needed immunity.
Anyway, Rocket goes for win no. 355 today. But I’m betting he’ll gladly take a no-decision.
I’m listening to report on ESPN where it says Pettitte signed a sworn affadavit where he said Clemens “discussed” using HGH in 1999 or 2000. He doesn’t even know what year Clemens said this?!! What a liar! ‘Last I checked, 1999/2000 isn’t THAT long ago that you can’t remember the year a convo happened. Then again, when you’re reaching for anything to get out of a made bed you should lay in like Pettitte is doing cuz he’s a rat, it’s typical. He is a pathetic human being, friend, and teammate.
parade,
Maybe you don’t understand what it means to be under oath in a deposition. If you are being deposed and you are being asked about a conversation you had with someone else, unless that conversation is privileged in a legal sense (like with your lawyer or doctor) you have to tell them. If Pettitte did what you say he should do, he would be cited for contempt (of Congress) and might go to jail himself. This is not the time to be heroic and there is no honor in sitting in jail for withholding evidence from Congress.
pettitte needs to get out of this mess roger has put him in. i hope he told the truth, whatever it is, so he can go to ST and put this all be hind him. let the chips fall where they may.
A little more legal nonsense:
Doesn’t the Government have to prove ultimately that the substances they are talking about were in fact “controlled substances” as defined in the law prohibiting their possession, or as defined in MLB’s prohibited use list? You would need a chemical analysis of the substances in question in order to prove that which Rocket allegedly possessed was in fact a substance which Roger was prohibited from possessing. But there’s no substance to analyze.
IMO, that’s also a real problem for any eventual perjury prosecution regarding whether or not Roger lied about using PEDs. (Assuming that the medical waste produced by McNamee tests positive for steroid or HGH, my guess it that it won’t pass a chain of custody attack, certainly not to the satisfaction of a unanimous jury). McNamee’s statements that he knew it was HGH or Steroids are meaningless. Is he a licensed chemical analyst and did he use a recognized method of testing the substance? No, he didn’t. What about the fact that he allegedly got the chemicals from Radomski? Same problem, prove that what Radomski had was HGH or Steroids and prove that those very same vials contained the stuff that was injected into Roger.
In the real world, the Government has the burden of proof. IMO they would have to establish beyond a reasonable doubt that Roger knowingly used PEDs, then prove he lied about it. Roger doesn’t have to say or prove or disprove anything. Thus if the Government cannot prove that Roger used PEDs, they cannot prove perjury. I also do not think it’s legally sufficient to allege that Roger lied to Congress or anyone else based merely on what Roger said in a conversation between only Roger and Andy, especially if Roger says Andy was mistaken. The criminal standard is “beyond a reasonable doubt.”
I’m thinking that cooler heads in Congress and at DOJ will probably prevail and Congressmen like the Boston Red Sox own Lynch from Massachusetts will avoid further reckless statements or face problems of his own.
Here’s an interesting, and analogous, historical note.
Some of you are old enough to remember the “Quiz Show Scandals,” when there were congressional hearings into rigged (actually, scripted) quiz shows. Scores of witnesses said (under oath) that they were not given the answers. As it turned out, they were all too embarrassed to admit the truth (even under oath).
Utimately, they were found to be liying. Now here’s the funny part. No one was charged with rigging the shows, because there was no law against it (they were treated like sitcoms, which are also scripted). BUT, the witnesses were charged with lying to Congress.
These witnesses were given a slap on the wrist, with misdemeanor penalties. But the lesson is clear ….. DON’T LIE TO THE FEDS. That has always been the case.
I’ve spent a little time in this blog stating that Boston fans didn’t need McNamee to thoroughly discredit Clemens’ late-career surge. We saw him get fat and mediocre, and resurface bulky, sculpted and dominant. If he had just shut his big mouth, he could have made a clean getaway (and his wife, too).
But he just had to piss off Congress. “As ye sow, so shall ye reap.”
Well said JMO. There are a few on here referring to AP as a RAT. That’s nonsense. He was asked questions and he told the truth. If there is a question of friendship, the person that is in the wrong, if he is not telling the truth, is Clemens.
It is his denials that have created this and put AP in the spot he is in. That isn’t friendship in any sense of the word. When AP was named in the report, he did the right thing and stated his involvement. The right thing to do, whether the report was done in fairness or not, is admit what you have done and move on. That is what AP tried to do and then he was drug into this circus.
does anyone know if anyone is blogging from the hearing, with real-time summaries of what people are saying and commentary? I can’t have volume on the TV at work.
The Times has someone in the hearings providing summary and analysis….
http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/02/13/live-analysis-of-hearings/
Thank God Congress is thinking of the kids! That’s what this is all about, according to Rep Elijah Cummings.
I am really sad about Pettitte. He admitted to doing PED’s once and said it was a horribly bad decision. Then he decided to use it again? Yikes.
Now I have to think that he did it more than just those two times. Andy :: Sad ::