The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News

Headed off to see some baseball

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Feb 12, 2008 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Taking off now to the minor-league complex to see the morning workout. I’ll report back later (likely around lunchtime) with the details and hopefully an interview or two.

Tomorrow’s Congressional hearings will dominate the news for a few days. So it will be good to see some actual baseball being played.

(Just an aside, I keep reading how Roger Clemens could go to jail if he’s found to be lying. I realize that’s a crime, but I find it hard to believe Clemens will get hauled off to the slammer at the end. Then again, Clemens might like jail. Three squares, all the weights you can lift, short haircuts, male bonding. It could work for him. The Shawshank Rocket Redemption?)





175 Responses to “Headed off to see some baseball”

  1. TurnTwo February 12th, 2008 at 9:16 am

    hey, Pete… let’s get some pics from the camera phone for the blog! i realize they arent going to come out very well, but whatever they look like will be better than looking out at the snow and sleet hitting the ground this afternoon here in NJ.

  2. Steve February 12th, 2008 at 9:16 am

    What happened to Barry Bond’s trial?

  3. Kelli in Conn. February 12th, 2008 at 9:20 am

    Let’s hope the media treats Andy Pettitte with some form of decency in his 1st day in Tampa on Thursday.
    They’ll be the usual ones that will write things out of context but it doesn’t mean the all media has to be of that mindset.

  4. Say it ain't so February 12th, 2008 at 9:21 am

    I’m pumped up for some actual baseball news and pictures that don’t involve steroids and crushed up beer cans, haha.

  5. Whatevered February 12th, 2008 at 9:23 am

    Pete, nice to know it’s baseball starting from today. Now about Clemens going to jail I’m in doubt. Even if they find that he did take steroids and talked about it they still will have to prove he knew it was steroids and did it anyway thus when claiming under oath that he didn’t take any he was lying. I don’t know which one is lying but plenty people will lie to reduce a sentence or so that they will have a chance to coach one day. It’s hard to tell which one is the case here.

  6. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--27/08 February 12th, 2008 at 9:26 am

    Oy Pete, send some of that heat up here, will yah?

    I got a text alert this morning, Pettitte says his testimony would back McNamee.

  7. BronxBomber77 February 12th, 2008 at 9:28 am

    So jealous !!! Pete, enjoy the first day of baseball…. not to mention the weather down there !

    AFA Clemens… What a shame, especially if Andy went Henry Hill on him. But, I can’t say I wouldn’t do the same if Congress held a gun to my head.

  8. Whatevered February 12th, 2008 at 9:29 am

    Any truth in the article posted in the NY Post that it’s confirmed that Joba will start the season in the pen for about two months and then go to the minors for two to three weeks to change to a starter for the rest of the year.

  9. Whatevered February 12th, 2008 at 9:33 am

    From what I read IPK will have a full year as a starter and Phil will be a 5th 6th starter all year.

  10. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge February 12th, 2008 at 9:33 am

    That would actually make sense, you want to stretch him out and doing so in the minors would be the best place.

  11. Clay Bucholz stole my laptop (aka Joe) February 12th, 2008 at 9:34 am

    I see the light at the end of the tunnel!! Baseball is right around the corner!!

  12. JohnC February 12th, 2008 at 9:36 am


    I did not see JB Cox listed as one of the ST pitchers. As I understand it, he had elbow ligament repair surgery, which is not as serious as Tommy John surgery, which involves elbow ligament ‘replacement’ surgery. Any word on his recovery?

  13. Mauro February 12th, 2008 at 9:38 am

    But “The Steroids Commissioners” Selig hould be in jail… how the hell did that guy get a new contract?

    As wrong as Clemens may be, no one doubts his affinity for the sport, on the other hand, Selig has sold the validity of the game to help his bottom line numbers. And i bet you that guy has never even thrown a baseball in his life! He probably never even played in a pick-up stickball game!

  14. Whatevered February 12th, 2008 at 9:38 am

    Also I read this a few days back. Shelley and Ensberg are the 1st base crew, it’s theirs to lose. Betemet has the infielder position to lose but if he doesn’t show his best Nick Green might get it.

  15. Dee February 12th, 2008 at 9:39 am

    All Pete (and Yankees of course:-) and no more Clemens please! I’m tired of the soap opera, let’s see some real drama on the field!

  16. pat February 12th, 2008 at 9:40 am

    First day of pitchers and catchers will be all about Andy commenting on steroids and first day of position players will be all about ARod commenting on what Rocker had to say yesterday. After that maybe we can get back to baseball.

  17. Clay Bucholz stole my laptop (aka Joe) February 12th, 2008 at 9:41 am

    I’m really excited about this crop of young pitchers, especially Melancon.

  18. Glenn February 12th, 2008 at 9:43 am

    Is Thursday the day that pitchers & catchers take physicals ? Is Friday actually the day they start workouts ? Peter, please end the wonderment.

  19. Whatevered February 12th, 2008 at 9:44 am

    I sure hope Pete brings back a picture of Joba, Phil and IPK and if they are all in one picture the better.

  20. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex") February 12th, 2008 at 9:48 am

    no doubt in my mind Betemit will be at 1B the rest of the season, Girardi marveled at what he could do when he (Betemit) first came here & at how quick he learned 1B. IDK why people stress that so much, he can play 1B and he can absolutely SLUG better than most, his only issue is the K’s which can improve w/ playing time.

  21. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge February 12th, 2008 at 9:48 am

    Alex shouldn’t even dignify Rockers comments with a responce. Rockers last name fits him, becuase he is off his rocker.

  22. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex") February 12th, 2008 at 9:55 am

    I read on Olney’s blog somewhere that the Red Sox have interest in Blanton, now far be it from me to make a suggestion, why not drive up the price on them for fun :lol:

  23. jimmy1138 February 12th, 2008 at 9:58 am

    On they said the Yankees have interest in Blanton, the Red Sox do not consider him.

  24. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex") February 12th, 2008 at 10:00 am

    hmmmm… I would like Blanton here but w/ Billy blueb@..s in Oak IDK

  25. Fran February 12th, 2008 at 10:00 am

    Pete – can you find out what is going on with Matsui’s knee. According to the NY Post he is reporting to Tampa today (9 days early) to meet with the Yankees medical staff to discuss his knee.

  26. Buddy Biancalana February 12th, 2008 at 10:03 am

    According to Joel Sherman, Joba will start in the pen barring any injuries during ST.

  27. A 22 February 12th, 2008 at 10:10 am

    Bonds could play the part of Red and be Rockets co-star in the new Shaw-shank. A wishful thinking side-note.Any chance that Curt Shill’s arm problems will tragically force him to close down his Blog. We Could only hope.

  28. Y's Guy February 12th, 2008 at 10:10 am

    I hope that whichever one is lying , clemmens or mcnamee, goes to prison. One of them is an outrageous liar.

    Lawyers for both sides have hinted that they expect the justice dept to investigate clemmens after the hearing, so my guess is that people who have heard the depositions belive that rocket is lying.

  29. OldYanksFan February 12th, 2008 at 10:13 am

    But “The Steroids Commissioners” Selig hould be in jail… how the hell did that guy get a new contract?

    Not only that, but to add insult to injury, Selig is the one who can ‘punish’ players that ‘deserve it’. Imagine, the biggest criminal of the group is now the judge!

  30. jashell2000 February 12th, 2008 at 10:16 am

    If what Sherman is reporting is accurate (I assume so), I like this plan for Joba. It allows time to be given to the other young to earn the a 7th/8th inning spot and conserves innings for Joba. I firmly think that with the 10-11 youngs arms competing that 1-2 will surface to solidify the pen in the second half. This move also helps the Yanks not get off to a slow start like last year with the injuries ect.

    Joba in the pen now makes it a 6/7 inning game and then in the second half of the season, if he transitions well, he could be a dominant arm in the rotation down the strech. Man, I can’t wait for this thing to get started!!!

  31. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex") February 12th, 2008 at 10:16 am

    Buddy according to that article he’s guessing, again no one in the media knows what we will do for Joba but I’m laughing when they guess and put the headline “Joba will be in the BP” :lol:

  32. Mark Alan February 12th, 2008 at 10:20 am

    I recommend an investigation of and possibly prison for McNamee and Mitchell.

    I think this Pettitte testimony thing could be that he is about to begin pitching a season of baseball for the New York Yankees, not the easiest things mentally or physically, and he does not need the side show Waxman likes to create following him around. Waxman knows this is a witch hunt, but he’s doing it for the ratings, and he knows Pettitte’s testimony will contribute nothing to his desired outcome. (Concommitantly, he wants to protect Mitchell’s reputation.)

  33. Yanksrule57 February 12th, 2008 at 10:24 am

    Let me join the chorus of those who want baseball to take the place of steroids and congress’ interest in them.

    Did he, or didn’t he? I don’t care!

    I am not surprised that Baseball gave the commissioner an extension. That doesn’t mean he shouldn’t have been fired after the Mitchell Report came out. But whatever happened to personal responsibility in this country? Both he and Fehr refused to do anything about the problem when it was obvious to anyone paying attention to what was going on. Sportswriters and others wrote about it all the time. It was a given that players like Sosa, McGuire, Canseco, etc. were users, and no one complained. Now everyone is up in arms about it like they knew nothing. Absolute garbage, just like these hearings.

  34. jashell2000 February 12th, 2008 at 10:24 am

    Brandon, that is a good point.

    Gotta love when they write “team officials confirm with the post”. I have always wanted to know who the “officials” actually are. Oh well, even if it is false (and I hope not) I like the theory.

  35. Whatevered February 12th, 2008 at 10:25 am

    That Joel article claims he’s not guessing but found out the facts from an inside source. I wonder why nobody else has the same or different source confirming it.

  36. OldYanksFan February 12th, 2008 at 10:26 am

    Pete – Based on talks with the players, and just your eyeballs, can you give us any idea of who looks to be in good/better shape and who looks like they may have slacked off?

    We know/have heard that Jetes and ARod are good to go.
    How about Melky and Cano. Are the kids taking conditioning seriously?
    Moose and Jason are both in walks years, and they both need to produce for us. How do they look?
    We know JD and Betemin were both in poor shape last spring. How did Winter treat them?

    How about Bobby? I know he was hurt last Spring. It’s his walk year too. Does he look to be in good shape?

    As Jorge ages, weight and agility will be his issues. He needs to stay as thin as possible and Yoga/stretching exercises are more important to him the weight training. How does he look? Does he plan on looking at how an ‘older guy’ stays in proper shape?

    Pete – I don’t know how much time you get to spend with these guys, but for Mo, Po, Giambi and maybe some others, age is their biggest enemy. Smart players accept aging and make changes/adjustments to their workout routine and strategy on the field. Does Rivera appear to be making adjustments so he will be good for 3 more years (and $45 million dollars)?

    I think we have a very solid team, and should contend for th PS. But we can’t have a Spring like last year, or our vets taking anything for granted. Our days of entitlement are over.

    Our guys are going to have to work for it.
    Does it look like they are in that mode?

  37. Whatevered February 12th, 2008 at 10:32 am

    Judging on the numbers Robbie had in the winter and by the yankees signing him to a 4/6 year contract I’d say he probably looks good coming into spring training.

  38. Southron February 12th, 2008 at 10:33 am

    Be flippant if you must, Peter, but I worked in corrections for over thirty years and there is nothing funny about some-one being incarcerated. It is an ugly business taking away someone’s freedom for any reason, but to do so–see Martha Stewart–for merely lying to a politician who lie almost every time they open their mouths is a travesty.


  39. Chris February 12th, 2008 at 10:34 am

    Brian Cashman and this treatment of Joba like he’s porcelin utterly sickens me.

    Let’s see…according to Joel Sherman’s N.Y. Post article on Joba today, Joba becomes the setup man with barely any M.L.B. experience relative to most setup men. He is the setup man for the first two 2 months then POOF! – back to the minors he goes for 3-4 weeks to be a starter. And who pray tell is the setup man while Joba is gone for these 3-4 weeks? What if he isn’t as good as Joba? What if he plain sucks? What if Joba isn’t good? He’s not exactly a lock to be 2007-like cuz M.L.B. has a book on him now. Hitters as they always do will adjust to him and he will have to adjust to them, or he’s batting practice or as mediocre or bad as anyone else in the pen.

    Oh yeah, what if Ian Kennedy, he of 3 career M.L.B. starts or Mike Mussina who looks like he’s on his last legs sucks or get injured? It’s not only Kei Igawa Or Carl Pavano Time (two worthless, overpaid bums who should never don a Yankees uniform again save for Halloween and/ or watching the Yankees on t.v.) but it’s Unknown Quantity Callup For The Pen time. What if Kennedy AND Mussina suck, or one sucks and the other gets injured? The Yankees can kiss the postseason goodbye cuz they have NOTHING in the minors to get the #3 or better starter they’ll need to stay minimally competitive.

    Joba “Chinadoll” Chamberlain is that because this overrated twit Cashman doesn’t have the wherewithall to develop a farm system reliever who’s a LOCK not a TRYOUT to make the pen, get a setup man, or get a lefty reliever.

    They have to trade Matsui or Cabrera, tradeable commodities, for bullpen help. I’m not even saying get a ton of guys: get a real setup man who Hawkins, Farnsworth, and Bruney are most certainly not and a lefty. You get that, your bullpen is Mo, the setup man, the lefty, Hawkins, Farnsworth, Bruney, and whoever wins the final slot in spring training.
    The Yanks can put Hawkins, Farnsworth, and Bruney on notice:
    shape up or ship out cuz we can always have younger, cheaper guys suck in place of you, and we can see what they have. I think at least one of them will do fine, but it’s no lock any two or all three will be Yankees by season’s end. If Matsui’s gone, Damon has LF all to himself. If Cabrera’s gone, you live with Damon in CF and Matsui in LF.

    If the Yankees don’t make the postseason and they are eliminated from making it in Game #152, I want Cashman fired immediately after it happens. He gets an early vacation and a g.m. job with a team where he won’t have anywhere close to the money to ef up with as he has with the Yanks. No spending $26M then another $20M on some M.L.B. zero there. I DEFY him to build a playoff contender with a payroll under $100M.

  40. matt February 12th, 2008 at 10:36 am

    so jealous of you pete, the only baseball i see is of roger clemens walking in and out of a court room

  41. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex") February 12th, 2008 at 10:38 am

    jashell2000 -

    Thanks I just want the bloggers to think about this before jumping to the “O…Joel said it was from a team official !! it must be right !!” how many times didn’t Joel say Yankees will trade Hughes for Santana the consensus is they will move the youth for Santana, the Yankees official told me this or that, until I hear Brian Cashman say with quotes saying we have decided to start Joba in the BP, I will not believe anything the Post, StarLedger, ESPN, FoxSports, Yahoo, Newsday, Daily News, you name it I won’t believe a word.

  42. Don Vito February 12th, 2008 at 10:38 am

    Hey Pete….I think you poking fun of Clemens and saying he may enjoy prison is a cheap shot. Do you really need to sink that low ?

  43. Buddy Biancalana February 12th, 2008 at 10:39 am


    River Ave Blues confirms it. Lol

  44. OldYanksFan February 12th, 2008 at 10:49 am

    Southron – Good comment. The hipocracy level for this whole affair is OFF THE CHARTS.

    Mitchell had an obvious conflict of interest. Instead of Dowd or someone really qualified, Selig picks Mitchell. We have no idea if McNamee was pressured to give up Clemens or what the ‘questioning procedure’ was like. Ramdamski, a long time dealer and HUB of the entire NY ‘operation’ gets probabtion. A known rapist, liar and professional scumbag is testifying against a ‘dumb athlete’, and it is the Athlete who might go to prison.

    Knobby, a virtual nobody who has been out of baseball for years, is called in to testify under oath, but Selig and Fehr are not.

    Everyone is talking ONLY about Roger and Andy (no accident there)
    Nobody is talking about Selig and Fehr (no accident there)

    With a tital wave of articles being written, nobody is calling out Selig, Fehr or any baseball executives.

    The Mitchell Report is crap in many ways and does not even come close to being up to legal standards. Yet this ‘document’ is at the core of everything, including these congressional meetings.

    This whole thing is a setup, witch-hunt, smokescreen carefully set up by Selig to deflect attention away from his decade of incompetence and instead call attention to a few individuals who participated in a decade long, systemic, open and acknowledged, use of PEDs.

    It would be hard for a creative fiction writer to come up with a more flawed, bogus story. Yet here it is. And everyone’s buying it.

    On January 17, 2008, Selig’s contract was extended by the MLB through 2012, at which point he plans to retire.[6] Selig made $14.5 million in the 12-month period ending Oct. 31, 2005.[1]

    Think about it folks.
    Selig has been getting paid some 15 million dollars per year

  45. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex") February 12th, 2008 at 10:49 am

    Buddy RAB actually accuse Joel of robbing his material

    Yesterday, I wrote that Joba Chamberlain could start the season in the bullpen. Today, Joel Sherman confirms, via a team official, that that will be the case. He’ll prepare in Spring Training as a starter, but will move into the setup corps once the season commences.

  46. Kill-Schill(ing) February 12th, 2008 at 10:49 am

    “Bud Selig is a clown. He should do the entire world a favor and kill himself. He is a certifiable idiot.” –John Rocker, February 11, 2008

    Sometimes I actually miss Rocker. There’s nothing like an outspoken ignormaus for a good cathartic laugh.

    Then again, even a broken clock is correct twice a day.

  47. William Buckner February 12th, 2008 at 10:56 am

    A couple of weeks ago, someone wrote how the Sox rotation was much better then NYY. With Bloody Sock going down, and Joba in the pen, how does everyone see it today?

    I think the rotation is in good shape. Hats off to Cashman.

  48. OldYanksFan February 12th, 2008 at 10:57 am

    Hey KillSchrill… do you AGREE or DISAGREE with Rocker?
    However, I don’t think Bud should kill himself, simply make a public apology for compromising the entire reputation of the game of baseball and then donate 50% of his past salaries which he certainly did NOT earn, to charity. Killing himself would be too extreem.

  49. Ben February 12th, 2008 at 10:58 am

    Chris, What if you use your brain for a split second. What if you go to your teams blogs and post there, WHAT IF YOU JUST SHUT UP!

  50. Chris February 12th, 2008 at 10:58 am

    What is so great about Cashman? All he did this offseason is retain who he had to retain (Posada, Mo, Pettitte, Abreu), sign Hawkins, acquire Albaldejo, and sign a couple of backup 1Bs and infielders to minor-league deals. He didn’t improve this team’s bullpen. He didn’t get rid of Farnsworth, Damon, Matsui, or Igawa. He not only brought back Pavano but let that p. o. s. think about coming back as if (Pavano) is anyone to mull it over after he stole $40M from the Yanks. Not only that, Igawa and Pavano are taking up two slots in AAA a kid could use. He gives A-Rod more money than he had to cuz where was A-Rod gonna go? He gives Posada 4 years when Posada wasn’t going to the Mets, gimme a break. He wouldn’t have left N.Y. with his son’s doctors being in N.Y.
    He gives Abreu $16M when Abreu publicly said he loves N.Y. and his apartment in lower Manhattan. O.k. so take $11M not $16M to stay -being protected by the best hitter in baseball and on a perennial postseason team isn’t worth taking the discount? Paul O’Neill took below market to remain a Yankee for years. As much as people get on Andruw Jones, he did take a discount to remain with the Braves. $3.75M to Hawkins. Cashman insults Wang and his agent by standing firm on $4M when Wang has won 19 games in each of his first two full seasons at a bargain price which includes a second-place finish in the ’06 Cy Young Award voting. He was solid vs. Boston last year (3-1 in 4 starts). It’s not his fault that Torre misused him in the postseason by starting him on short rest.

    He’s putting all his eggs in one basket with Joba and lemme tell ya, Joba won’t be able to do it all by himself and he means jack if the starters and middle relief pitch so badly, he won’t be needed or worse: he’ll have to be wasted in blowouts if the middle relief can’t get through the game.

  51. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex") February 12th, 2008 at 11:01 am

    first Joba hasn’t been announced in the bullpen yet so I see it as Schilling is gone it was Karma for his Giants rant. As for the rotation we’ll see I will absolutely be patient w/ the kids because we are finally taking the next step as a franchise, creating depth in the system that can step in and help.

  52. Ben February 12th, 2008 at 11:02 am

    Guys BREAKING NEWS chris is becoming to new yankees GM. Lol. come on dude you’re so pathetic.

  53. jashell2000 February 12th, 2008 at 11:05 am

    “Brian Cashman and this treatment of Joba like he’s porcelin utterly sickens me.”

    What will sicken me even more is if they put a heavy load (190-200 innings) on Joba and hurt his arm in the process resulting in losing him to surgery. Why not let Cash and his baseball people handle this and let it play out? He is taking a risk this year relying on youth, and I am VERY curious how that strategy will play out as the Yanks have not been down this road as long as I can remember.

    Ultimately I hope it works that he is the stud in the rotation that he is projected to be. I am optomistic.

  54. TurnTwo February 12th, 2008 at 11:06 am

    you can defy Cashman to make a championship contender for $100 million, but he doesnt have to. so what’s your point?

    i actually think this is the right move.

  55. Buddy Biancalana February 12th, 2008 at 11:07 am

    Cashman is quoted here:

    “He has an innings limit and won’t go start to finish as a starter. That won’t be allowed.

    From Lohud:

  56. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge February 12th, 2008 at 11:09 am

    Whoa someone forgot to take their ritalin this morning.

  57. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex") February 12th, 2008 at 11:10 am

    so he starts as a starter and goes BP later on in July.

  58. William Buckner February 12th, 2008 at 11:10 am

    Chris – i’m sorry the yankees payroll is coming out of your checking acct. I think holding on to prospects is valued from a GM. I think the twins fans would rather a hughes or kennedy. I thinks the mets are glad they didn’t have to part with their best too.

    Also, he didn’t add long term contracts in a year the Abreu, Andy, Farns, Moose, and Giambi come off the books. That about 70 million.

  59. William Buckner February 12th, 2008 at 11:12 am

    Cash added best 3rd base FA, best closer FA, and best catcher. Did not lose one valued prospect. How did he not do right by their fans?

  60. Buddy Biancalana February 12th, 2008 at 11:15 am


    or he starts in the BP & finishes as a starter.

  61. Fran February 12th, 2008 at 11:18 am

    Chris – The Yankees inherited Abreu’s contract from Philadelphia. All they did was exercise the 16 million dollar option.

  62. wondering February 12th, 2008 at 11:18 am


    they had the selig/fehr hearing 2 weeks ago. the stated purpose of this hearing is to investigate roger’s claim that he was wronged by the mitchell report.
    and arent u the one who says steroids and hgh should be legal?

  63. Chris February 12th, 2008 at 11:18 am

    Hey Ben

    First off, my team is the Yankees, unlike yours. Second, my questions were valid re: Joba as setup man. Take off your rosecolored glasses and use your brain to answer these questions or s t f u:

    Who’s the setup man if Joba su cks or gets injured?

    Who’s the setup man when Joba goes to the minors to prepare to be a starter?

    Who’s the setup man if Mo gets hurt and Joba has to be the closer?

    What if that setup man after Joba sucks or gets injured?

    What if Kennedy and/ or Mussina suck and/ or get injured?
    Do you want Kei Igawa and/ or Carl Pavano in the rotation again? Cuz if Kennedy and Mussina cant get it done, there is no Joba and spare me with Karstens and Rasner.

    My answer to all of them is NO IDEA, and it’s safe to say Cashman will have no idea either cuz guess what? If Kennedy or Mussina can’t get it done, it will be Igawa or Pavano in his place and no team is helping the Yanks as they will be able to insist on Hughes and at least two more top farm system kids. They will hold the Yanks for ransom.

  64. Kill-Schill(ing) February 12th, 2008 at 11:19 am

    I quote Hank Steinbrenner:

    “”There’s been a lot of pressure put on Phil Hughes, but the fact is that Hughes was not in the deal at the end, none of the three [Joba Chamberlain, Hughes or Ian Kennedy] were in the deal,” Steinbrenner said. “There was a possibility we could have made the trade without them. Minnesota called us with some other possibilities.”

    Is this true? The Yankees could have acquired Santana without Chamberlain, Kennedy, or Hughes.

    Come on Cashman-idolaters, Defend This One.

    FIRE CASHMAN!!! (Not really but he deserves a public whipping for this one.)

  65. thisguy February 12th, 2008 at 11:21 am

    i think its pretty obvious that joba was going to start the season in the pen all along. there is no way he can go a full season otherwise. im not sure what the yanks will do with hughes, but possibly alternating starts between he, kennedy, and a few other pitchers who show they are capable of making spot starts in spring training might be the likely option for at least the first half of the season.

    no one should really be surprised by this and it is probably the best way to go.

  66. Marc February 12th, 2008 at 11:23 am


    Even if we traded none of the big three. We still wouyld be paying $137 mm plus the luxury tax.

  67. Buddy Biancalana February 12th, 2008 at 11:24 am

    Kill Schill-

    Where is the source of the Hank quote?

  68. Chuck February 12th, 2008 at 11:24 am

    It is very difficult to prove perjury. No prosecutor would try to do it based only on one witness’ testimony and his personal collection of bloody garbage — particularly when the single witness has his own credibility problems…

    People contradict each other under oath everyday in every courthouse in America — of course those folks don’t have 100 million+ people watching that testimony.

    Turn on your TV early… there may be a trailer for the spygate hearings before the featured event starts…

  69. Kill-Schill(ing) February 12th, 2008 at 11:24 am

    It’s from Kevin Kiernan’s piece today in The New York Post.

  70. Kill-Schill(ing) February 12th, 2008 at 11:25 am

    Kiernan in the Post, Buddy

  71. CB February 12th, 2008 at 11:25 am

    “Is this true? The Yankees could have acquired Santana without Chamberlain, Kennedy, or Hughes.”

    Ok, so the Twins were asking for Wang or Cano then.

    Take Hank’s comments with a grain of salt. There’s been so much buzz about how much pressure Phil and Kennedy will be under to justify passing on Santana Hank may have just been saying this to take some of the pressure off his shoulders.

    Hanks says a lot in the media but he generally does it to achieve some end point.

    He’s using the media to get to the fans.

  72. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex") February 12th, 2008 at 11:27 am

    Kill Schill-

    it’s just postering, remember Hank wanted this deal done at all cost, he’s showing his fan base he’s w/ Cash on this one. No way Minny isn’t or didn’t ask for Hughes or Kennedy, we had frickin’ 5 for 1′s being asked then there are guys like Melancon and Betances and Ajax ..still the better decision not to do this deal.

  73. thisguy February 12th, 2008 at 11:29 am

    if its true cashman could have done a trade with kennedy and prospects, let alone giving up none of he major league ready pitchers, he should have done the trade…if he passed up on any deal of these sorts, he may deserve to be fired because he is now over-evaluating the talent he has and maybe has just become too attached to do a proper job as gm…there is no other real thought as why not to do that deal, other than falling in love with your own players..the money means nothing, the mets signed him for a very good contract years wise…he will be 34 at the end of the deal.

  74. Irabu's Son February 12th, 2008 at 11:29 am

    Pete, you have balls writing that about Clemens. If I were a reporter who wrote something like that about a player, I’d be worried about getting my nose broken the next time I came across the player.

  75. CB February 12th, 2008 at 11:29 am

    “My answer to all of them is NO IDEA…”

    That’s probably one of the more accurate comments ever posted on this board.

  76. Fran February 12th, 2008 at 11:29 am

    In that NY Post Aricle Hank also says that the Yankees better make the playoffs or he’ll be angry:

    Steinbrenner is expecting another playoff run at the least in the finale of Yankee Stadium. “They do need to make the playoffs or let’s face it, I’m going to be ticked off,” Steinbrenner said. “And then once we get in the playoffs we’d better do well, but the fact of the matter is, as far as the next 10 years we could be in dynamite shape. We could have the best pitching staff since the Dodgers in the ’60s and obviously we’ll have some good hitters, too.”

  77. Chris February 12th, 2008 at 11:30 am

    Oh yeah this goes out to ALL of you:

    I’m not of the ridiculous party who thinks Joba Chamberlain is the second coming of Cy Young, Nolan Ryan, or any other Hall Of Fame starting pitcher and that three kids will take the 2008 Yankees to the promised land. You want to live in that dream world, go right ahead. You aren’t real Yankee fans, just a bunch of nerds who think the Yanks have won all these years with kids with barely any M.L.B. experience.

    Last I checked, you need a solid mostly veteran/ experienced bullpen along with a like rotation to make the postseason and win the World Series and sorry, I don’t see that when the only locks in the 2008 Yankees bullpen after Mo are LaTroy Hawkins and Kyle Farnsworth.

    But you keep going on and on and on about what some kid in A or AA is doing in June…then realize not all of them will be 2007 Joba. 2008 Joba may not be 2007 Joba.

  78. CB February 12th, 2008 at 11:31 am

    “there is no other real thought as why not to do that deal, other than falling in love with your own players..the money means nothing,”

    Hal Steinbrenner didn’t want to do the deal. Funny, how money actually did mean something to the guy who owns half the team.

  79. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge February 12th, 2008 at 11:31 am

    Chris, geez what is with the doom and gloom. YOu can pose those questions with every single team. THis is supposed to be fun .

    What happens if Paplebon gets hurt? WHat happens if Beckett gets a blister. Give me a break!!!

  80. Derek February 12th, 2008 at 11:32 am

    Ahhh the Irony. If Roger Clemens had retired in 2003, when he said he would, he would have been inducted into the Hall of fame this year.

    Now it looks like he may never get in.

  81. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex") February 12th, 2008 at 11:32 am

    about time CB

  82. Marc February 12th, 2008 at 11:34 am


    The Red Sox also have questions:
    Becket was terrible 2 years ago, Schilling is done. Bucholtz and Lester is unproven, Wakefield doesnt scare me.

  83. Kill-Schill(ing) February 12th, 2008 at 11:34 am

    Marc, the Yankees payroll doesn’t concern me and quite frankly, it shouldn’t concern them either.

    1) In the Yankees public filing for the bonds they issued on their new Stadium, they estimate conservatively, that the new ballpark will generate an additional $150 million dollars a year more than their current ballpark.

    2) The Yankees shed between $50 and $80 million dollars in payroll after 2008 and another $26 million after 2009 while the luxury tax threshold increases each year.

    3) The Yankees payroll is about $200 million this year. With Santana it would have been $225, perhaps less if they structured his contract differently than the Mets, deferring a pay raise for 2008. The luxury tax threshold is $155 million for 2008. $70 million * 40% = $28 million or approximately the price of Giambi and Farnsworth’s contract this year.

    The 40% ticket price increase fans have to pay for 2008 year should cover the $28 million surcharge.

  84. Chuck February 12th, 2008 at 11:36 am


    You are wrong. No irony. If Clemens retired in 2003 he would not have been eligible for the Hall until after the Mitchell Report came out — and nothing else would have changed — so discussion would be the same.


  85. TurnTwo February 12th, 2008 at 11:37 am

    CB, agreed.

    We as fans need to take every one of these articles with a grain of salt, because none of us really know what went on in the Johan negotiations, and we’ll prob never find out for sure.

    and for fiery little chris over there: uncertainty does not equate to total doom… take a deep breath, and come back off the ledge.

    pitchers and catchers havent even reported yet… why worry about a reported, but unconfirmed, development plan that may or may not happen two or three months from now?

  86. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex") February 12th, 2008 at 11:37 am

    Wakefield could be done, and Leslie/Buckets haven’t even gone through a whole season. I use this word alot… KARMA, funny how they blocked us from Santana and what that probably did was put us and them equal.

  87. Catherine February 12th, 2008 at 11:38 am

    Yankee fans, heres a challenge.

    Let’s say you had to get current jersey from every team in the AL East. Which player would you get and why?

    Yankees: If I had to buy a new one it would be Hughes
    Red Sox: Probably Beckett because he’s a beast in the PS
    Orioles: Markakis only because I saw a sign once that said “I want to have Markakis and eat him too”
    Rays: BJ Upton, he’s awesome
    Blue Jays

  88. Catherine February 12th, 2008 at 11:39 am

    * Blue Jays: Alex Rios

  89. Marc February 12th, 2008 at 11:41 am


    Tampa Bay- Evan Longoria, because I can take out the N in Evan….

  90. 2708 February 12th, 2008 at 11:41 am

    Everyone is talking about how bad the team has a potential to be but didnt we have a great second half of the year? and with that same team returning, should we not be able to pick up right where they left off? what am I missing? why dont I see what everyone else sees?

  91. Catherine February 12th, 2008 at 11:42 am

    Hahahaha clever, very clever

  92. mel February 12th, 2008 at 11:43 am


    You raise a lot of good points, but if any of the Big 3 falter, there are other, albeit less attractive options. In case you haven’t noticed, we stacked with pitching.

    As for whomever said that it’s on Cashman’s head that we didn’t get Santana. Read the quote. Hank said “we” had a chance. The majority agreed. This wasn’t a Cashman deal. They ran the numbers and it was beyond ridiculous. The bus was being driven by Hal, not Hank or Cashman. Brian’s GM crush on Hughes was not the issue. (God, how desperate was Bill Smith at the 11th hour? Should’ve put Santana on the shelf).

    Hank’s comment was a veiled message that we didn’t really want Santana. Kind of like “I broke up with her, she didn’t break up with me” kind of thing. Stupid, macho, and juvenile, but he felt he had to say it for some reason. Unless his mouth takes over his body. That’s a possibility.

  93. thisguy February 12th, 2008 at 11:45 am

    people didnt want to give up hughes, prospects plus the cash and years…but now look at the end result…the mets sign santana to a great contract. he will be 34 when it ends. they also gave up prospects who more than likely wont turn out to be anything special. gomez can be a nice number hitter someday, but that is a small price to pay for santana…anyone who would trade kennedy plus 3 prospects or 4 or 5 prospects in the minors for santana just doesnt know baseball and is hung up on the youth movement.

    i agree the farm is very very important, but you have to understand how it works…most prospects dont work out…so when kennedy becomes a great number 4 for the yankees, and santana wins two cy youngs with the mets, you let me know then if the yanks should have been more willing to go out and get santana for what turned out to be a package of mediocre prospects.

  94. Y's Guy February 12th, 2008 at 11:46 am

    chris i laughed my a$$ off at your gloomy assessment. especially about the part where one guy has a lousy season and the other guy gets hurt. glass-is-1/2-empty types like you could never have it that the guy who has the lousy season gets injured!

  95. Chuck February 12th, 2008 at 11:46 am

    Chris said: “Last I checked, you need a solid mostly veteran/ experienced bullpen along with a like rotation to make the postseason and win the World Series…”

    Check again. You are wrong. Most teams don’t have a “veteran/experienced bullpen.”

    Review last year’s playoff teams. Who had a “veteran/experienced bullpens”?

  96. Chris February 12th, 2008 at 11:46 am

    CB you like Ben don’t even have a thought in your head, so please. At least I have the bal ls to write what I think and feel unlike you two and the many other cowards afraid to put forth what they think and feel who just run off insults.

    Cashman is destroying this franchise first by idiotic signings (Giambi and Damon contracts, Matsui extension, Pavano, Igawa second by pretending that he’s Billy Beane with his trying to sell Joba/ Hughes/ Kennedy like Zito/ Hudson/ Mulder II. B.t.w. it isn’t fair to Joba/ Hughes/ Kennedy who are closer to Isringhausen/ Pulsipher/ Wilson until they prove otherwise. That’s my real point.

    You people go on and on and on about “the kids”, well “the kids” have 16 M.L.B. starts between them. Cashman has gone the exact opposite extreme and quite frankly, I don’t think he cares. I mean he is going into the final year of his contract, so what does he care if the Yanks don’t make the postseason since he’s a goner if that happens? I find him to have a fatalist streak. If I owned the Yanks, I’d fire him today. When you stockpile FIVE backup 1B (Ensberg, Lane, Duncan, Betemit, and Miranda) and your only bullpen locks after Mo are Hawkins and Farnsworth, you are through on my team. Oh yeah, I’d also tell Joba he’s a starter and will never be anything but that as long as he’s a Yankee, so his mind is 110% clear of doubt about where/ what he is.

  97. Old Goat February 12th, 2008 at 11:46 am

    Wow, so according to Chris if you don’t agree with his views then you aren’t a true Yankee fan. Glad you cleared that up Chris. I guess being a fan of baseball for more than 50 years, specifically the Yankees, has really been nothing more than a delusion.

    I just have to wonder why you, Chris, aren’t the GM of the Yankees. While I remain thankful that you aren’t.

  98. Chuck February 12th, 2008 at 11:47 am


    No self respecting Yankee fan would buy a Red Sox jersey — unless it was too burn it — and then it would be Schill.

  99. Y's Guy February 12th, 2008 at 11:47 am

    this guy

    if im remembering right it was the twins that turned down hughes and prospects for santna right?

  100. mel February 12th, 2008 at 11:48 am


    Good to know that Hank is tempering his expectations. Sheesh. Wants to have his cake and eat it, too. lol.

  101. thisguy February 12th, 2008 at 11:49 am

    y’s guy,

    we’re discussing if cashman had the opportunity to get santana for kennedy and prospects or just prospects in the minors…we arent even sure if its true…we are speculating…im just saying if he passed on that deal, its a terrible baseball decision.

  102. 2708 February 12th, 2008 at 11:52 am

    I am going to actually keep your post so i can throw it in your face later in the year. I love when people like you come on this post and try to spread hate and discontent. you are right, the team sucks, we should fire Cash and maybe hire someone else. You my friend are a genious…

  103. Blargh February 12th, 2008 at 11:52 am

    Chris: Name the MLB teams which have no questions
    Name the MLB teams who have clear overall advantage on the Yankees

    Saying this team isn’t gonna win implies that some other team(s) will. Name them. Share with us why you think so.

  104. TurnTwo February 12th, 2008 at 11:52 am

    don’t be afraid to tell us how you really feel, Chris.

  105. OldYanksFan February 12th, 2008 at 11:53 am

    oyf – “and arent u the one who says steroids and hgh should be legal?”
    No, I never stated that.
    I don’t think steroids should be legal, but cortizone shots, which is a steroid, is already legal and in constant use.

    I DO think MLB should do a comprehesive study (and use existing information) to come up with some real truths about steroids and HGH. It is possibly that could find that HGH should be legal, if it is basically a curative type of drug. I’m saying it should be looked at fairly.

    My stance is:
    1) That steroids and HGH are VERY different and are used for different reasons. They should not be lumped together. It reminds me of when I was a kid and they talked about “Pot and Heroine” together.

    If Bonds (or anyone else) has truly been using both steroids and HGH on an ongoing basis for years, solely to increase their production, how can this be compared to Andy (or anyone else) taking some HGH for a limited period ONCE over a decade long career?

    2) They are currently outlawed by the sport so using them is wrong. But so is every other form of cheating that has been commonplace for 100 years, and still continues. I don’t think it’s fair to label/single out Clemens, Pettitte, et al and totally ignor Willie Mays, Gaylord Perry, Whitey Ford, and like literally a thousand other players who ‘broke the rules’ and also cheated.

    3) This entire process, from the Mitchell Report, Selig’s responsibility, on down to the owners cooperation, is a far worse ‘moral crime’ then what Roger or Andy or anyone did.
    These are just 2 guys. The whole damn system has been corrupt for decades.

    I am NOT NOT NOT condoning what any of these players did. But I think it needs to be put into perspective that this was/is a long standing, systemic issue, that basically by being denied and ignored, had MLB’s stamp of approval. MLB was absolutely in love with Mac and Sosa, and would have made Bonds a God, had the PEDs issue not gone public.

    Most of us drive on Interstates.
    The posted speed limit is 65 MPH.
    Probably 99% of the general public has speeded at some time.
    We know that basically, you can exceed the limit by 10 MPH (to 75 MPH) without getting hassled by the law.
    Basically, we know you can break the speeding law within the 10 MPH, and yet really ‘break’ the law.

    Now, all of a sudden, you get called before congress for driving 71 MPH 3 years ago (can you say Chuck Knobby).
    They tell you they will go easy on you if you turn in other family members.

    I know, the analogy is not quite right. But you get the idea.

    THIS PROCESS STINKS! Calling a few suckers like Roger and Andy before Congress while Radamski and McNamee go free IS NUTS!

    Radamski and McNamee encouraged, distributed and administered PEDs, for years, to multiple players. There are people who sell dope to High School kids. Should we catch them, and then let them go, if they rat out a few 14 year olds?

    Don’t you see something WRONG with this entire process?

  106. Marc February 12th, 2008 at 11:54 am

    Kei Igawa can pitch in the NL East!

  107. CB February 12th, 2008 at 11:59 am

    Theo Epstein is an idiot and should be fired. He’s only built two world series winners over the past 4 years. What about the other two years?

    And what about the Boston bullpen this year!!!!!!!!!!!!! What is he doing up there with all of John Henry’s money.

    Who’s the setup man if Okajima sucks or get injured?

    Who’s the set up man when Okajima regresses back to his expected performance based on his numbers in Japan?

    Who’s the setup man if Papelbon gets hurt and Okajima has to be the closer?

    What if Buccholz and/ or Wakefield suck and / or get injured? Do you want Manny Declaramen and / or Kyle Synder in the rotation again? Cuz if Buccholz and Wakefield can’t get it done, there is no Schilling and spare me with Craig Hansen and Kyle Jackson.

  108. pat February 12th, 2008 at 12:01 pm

    I got shot down months ago when I suggested tandem pitching with some of the kids to limit innings but I still think it makes sense.

    A starter for 6 and Joba for 2 or 3 for a few months might be a good thing.

  109. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex") February 12th, 2008 at 12:03 pm

    Cashman is destroying this franchise first by idiotic signings (Giambi and Damon contracts, Matsui extension, Pavano, Igawa second by pretending that he’s Billy Beane with his trying to sell Joba/ Hughes/ Kennedy like Zito/ Hudson/ Mulder II. B.t.w. it isn’t fair to Joba/ Hughes/ Kennedy who are closer to Isringhausen/ Pulsipher/ Wilson until they prove otherwise. That’s my real point

    you may have the bal to write but it doesn’t mean your right

    first off Jason Giambi was a YES Network signing they needed a big name since they moved to a new network remember MSG’s James Dolan caused this crap to occur, Hughes pitched a stellar playoff game at a ripe 21 yrs.of age oh yeh he won the game too. Kennedy was and is one of the best young SP in the AL secondary stuff alone you really should have watched him in minor league ball or college ball to understand what they like about him. Joba I really don’t need to defend.

    Matsui was a George Steinbrenner acquisition he wanted a big market guy, Hideki is MJ in Japan, no one really argued Pavano when he was acquired so don’t go there, no one knew he’d need a bubble. Igawa bad scouting by Pags and Cash listened to him. Damon was one of the best leadoff man in baseball WTF is so bad of acquiring him ?

    The Big 3 is what your worried about but in reality in their rookie season they showed they can carry the weight, Hughes had a freak injury wasn’t suppose to be in the ML at 21 btw, Joba at 21/22 was a fast mover and dominated in short innings, was put there because of need. I remember people BS’n why we don’t move him for Gagne or Texeira..that would have turned out nice …..

    Kennedy another fast mover at 22 dominated minor league and was the 2nd of the big 3 who nearly threw a no hitter while holding his own in a AL race.

  110. Y's Guy February 12th, 2008 at 12:05 pm

    yeah, but they just did and MLB/MLBPA hearing like 2 weeks ago and will do more. It was roger’s campaign against the Mitchell report that prompted this hearing, so if rocked gets burned by it, he has nobody to blame but himself. If not for the denials and the press conferences and the taped phone call congress would not have gotten this involved, remember originally this was just going to be a hearing with MLB/MLBPA and rocket/mcnamee was just supposed to be a part of that hearing. Rocket brought the investigation on himself and has no cause to complain if it blows up in his face.

  111. Yazman February 12th, 2008 at 12:06 pm

    Hank’s doing a good job protecting Hughes in the media.

    If Santana is Sandy Koufax for the Mets (and he may well be), don’t hold Hughes up to that standard. Hank is saying we had a bunch of different guys we could have traded for Santana — but didn’t.

    So the whole team is responsible for proving management right, this year and in coming years. It’s not all on Phil.

    Kudos to Hank for reminding us.

  112. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex") February 12th, 2008 at 12:08 pm

    P.S. when is the last time Pulsipher/Wilson/Izzy did anything like this “Big 3″ of the Yanks did. Hughes/Chamberlain/Kennedy was the main reason we fought back from 20 under .500 last season.

  113. Doreen February 12th, 2008 at 12:08 pm

    Chris -

    It’s fairly evident that following the Yankees is giving you no pleasure. According to you, we can or should expect everything to go wrong for the Yankees, while at the same time everything will go right for their opponents.

    There is no such thing as perfection. There is no such thing as a sure thing.

    Maybe you need a new hobby. Maybe not. But at the very least allow those of us who think the spring is a time of happy anticipation to enjoy ourselves without the doom & gloom okay?

  114. mel February 12th, 2008 at 12:09 pm


    I, too, like the tandem idea. Maybe it’s a maternal thing?

    Well, it must be true. ESPN is reporting it. Either way it’s a win, win, despite all the doom & gloomers here! Joba’s had success, can pick up where he stopped which was buzzing Yuck and blowing by others. Then he goes and gets ready to be a starter for when we really need him. In the second half. It makes sense to do it in the minors because he can do it properly. Not just doing side sessions and simulated games.

    Hopefully, by then some of the other studs will be ready to step like Joba did last year.

    More disturbing, though, is that Andy’s behind schedule and the Yankees don’t even know what he looks like yet.

    Hopefully, Andy will use baseball as a way of forgetting about that other stuff instead of letting the other stuff distract him.

    Has Wang arrived yet?

  115. CB February 12th, 2008 at 12:10 pm


    You must be the same Chris who ranted on and on the other day about how Cashman was stupid for not signing Troy Percival, Ron Mahay and Jeremy Affeldt.

    Those were some good ideas. Solid thoughts right there. People widely agreed with you on those as well.

  116. SJ44 February 12th, 2008 at 12:10 pm

    Hey folks, take it easy on Chris.

    He believes this is PlayStation baseball. You should have 3-4 backup options for every player on the team.

    Absent that, the GM is a “twit”.

    Of course, no other team in baseball has these backup options.

    But, hey, let’s not let the facts get in the way of a good rant.

    This coming from someone who believes Bobby Abreu would have taken a 5 million dollar paycut to stay in NY simply because he has a place in NYC.

    Last year, this same guy called Cashman an “idiot” for not trading Abreu straight up for Jermaine Dye.

    Memo to Chris. Abreu has had that same place in NY for 8 years. He isn’t taking a paycut to stay in NY. Especially not coming off a 110/100 (runs scored/RBI) season.

    I know, I know, the Yankees are “doomed”.

    Here’s a suggestion. If they are not “doomed” in 2008, do you promise to not come back here posting the same nonsensical drivel you posted under your various screen names last year?

    At some point, you have to try and make sense. You can be as unhappy as you want….nobody here cares about that. But, just try and make some sense. At least occasionally.

  117. Raf February 12th, 2008 at 12:12 pm

    As much as I enjoy reading all of your great insights, Pete, I don’t quite understand why you are so blatantly anti-Clemens. If he’s guilty, then he’s guilty. If he’s innocent, then I’d love to see what you write then.

  118. OldYanksFan February 12th, 2008 at 12:15 pm

    pat – “A starter for 6 and Joba for 2 or 3 for a few months might be a good thing.”
    Well… starting Joba in the BP is basically the same thing, but far better because:
    1) Phil pitches 6 innings. The Yankees are losing 7-2. You really want to use 2 of Joba’s (limited) innings here?
    2) Phil pitches 6 innings. The Yankees are winning 7-2. You really want to use 2 of Joba’s (limited) innings here?
    3) Moose pitches 6 innings. The Yankees are winning 3-2. Wouldn’t you want to use 2 of Joba’s (limited) innings here?

    By being in the BP, as opposed to a ‘fixed’ spot’, the Yankees can choose when to use up some of Joba’s innings. They won’t be wasted on blowouts (in either direction). Furthermore, if Mo is used 2 days in a row, Joba could even close for a game if necessary.

    A starter pitching 200 IPs IS more valuable then a reliever pitching 70 IPs. However, those 70 IPs are more crucial, because we can use them only in high leverage situations, where a game is on the line.

    1/2 the games the Yankees play are almost already (short of a total meltdown) decided by the 6th inning (4 run leads or more). Just like last year, all of Joba’s BP innings will be important, game saving innings. Mo only pitches 70 IPs a year, but think how many games he has helped us win.

  119. Chris February 12th, 2008 at 12:16 pm

    Hey Chuck

    YOU’RE wrong. You asked the question, so you’re gonna get the answer. A postseason team who had a veteran/ experienced bullpen? That’s easy: THE WORLD CHAMPION BOSTON RED SOX.

    Paplebon: 35 and 37 save seasons were experience enough
    Timlin: 41 years old, 17 years MLB exp.
    Lopez: 31, 5 years
    Snyder: 29, 4 years
    Donnelly, 35, pitched on the 2002 World Champion Angels
    Romero, 31, pitched for Minnesota
    Gagne, 31, one-time star closer for L.A.
    Corey, 31, made MLB as far back as 1998, comeback guy
    Pineiro, 28, once pitched for good Seattle teams

    Hardly a “young” or “inexperienced” bullpen. Manny Delcarmen was the only “kid” in the pen. You lose. Now you can put a lid on the flat “you’re wrong” declarations you’ve made in these comments.

  120. SJ44 February 12th, 2008 at 12:20 pm

    Snyder-No real role in their bullpen last year.

    Piniero, Corey and Romero were all released.

    Gagne was a complete bust.

    Donnelly was injured and a bust.

    Lopez was not a featured guy. Just an arm.

    Timlin. Like Farnsworth, they moved him to the 6th and 7th innings.

    Their main bullpen guys were Delcarmen, in his first full season in Boston, Okijima, a rookie (despite his Japanese experience) and Papelbon, in his second full season with the Red Sox.

    I think “you lose”, if you are keeping score.

  121. randyhater February 12th, 2008 at 12:21 pm


    I like your nutty passion, but do you really think comparing cheating multi-millionaires like Rocket and Pettitte to 14 year old pot smokers (or soldiers in Iraq guarding Abu Ghraib like you did the other day) is accurate?

    Radomski and McNamee are small-fry degenerates, nothing more; the big fish are the guys with the money who we see on tv every night.

    And while I’m with you on Fehr, what exactly should Selig have done differently? The owners wanted drug testing and the Players Association opposed it vehemently. Should he have locked them out over something that at its core is a player health issue? Would you have willingly forfeited another summer of baseball so that the owners could try to force the players you stop poisoning themselves? I wouldn’t have.

  122. mel February 12th, 2008 at 12:24 pm


    I’m sure Pete’s just poking fun because Roger’s really turned into a caricature of himself. If he’s found to be guilty, it’ll be so much worse because of all the grandstanding, posturing, and shmoozing. He really has protested too much.

  123. Blargh February 12th, 2008 at 12:25 pm

    “Would you have willingly forfeited another summer of baseball so that the owners could try to force the players you stop poisoning themselves?”

    Hmm, either that or use replacement players.
    Most likely I’d get sacked by the owners for that, but eh, I think that it would’ve been worth it.

  124. pat February 12th, 2008 at 12:26 pm

    Old Yank Fan

    I don’t mean he necessarily has to be linked to only 1 pitcher.

    I just don’t have issue with him being a 2 or 3 inning reliever. Would limit his innings for a few months and would also give the rest of the pen a rest every few days.

  125. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge February 12th, 2008 at 12:31 pm

    Thats it I give up. It is Feb 12 and the Yankees have no chance because we don’t have 4 back up options for each position.

  126. raymagnetic February 12th, 2008 at 12:36 pm

    “Hardly a “young” or “inexperienced” bullpen. Manny Delcarmen was the only “kid” in the pen.

    I love how you fail to mention Okajima in your rant who was the setup man for the Red Sox last year. By the way, he was a rookie and wasn’t even expected to be a great pitcher for them. But let’s ignore the facts.

  127. Fran February 12th, 2008 at 12:40 pm

    Mel -

    Hank is obviously following in his father’s foot steps. Sounds like George, looks like George. And he has promised to be in NY a lot to let the players know he is around.

  128. Y's Guy February 12th, 2008 at 12:44 pm

    chris, im guessing you’ve been a yankees fan since all the way back in the late 90′s eh?

  129. Alfred E. Neuman February 12th, 2008 at 12:45 pm

    I nominate Chris to be “Doom & Gloom” Man of the Year. With his oustanding executive abilities, he should easily overtake Brian Cashman when his contract expires. With expert advice from George King of the Post, the Yankees can look forward to a dynasty beyond belief with Chris at the helm.

  130. mel February 12th, 2008 at 12:50 pm


    And the funny thing is that Hank tried to make everyone believe that he’s not his father. Maybe one difference is that George had a soft spot for losers.

  131. Chris February 12th, 2008 at 12:52 pm

    Hey SJ 44

    I don’t own Playstation. You believe in fantasy baseball where Joba, Hughes, Kennedy, Ohlendorf, Veras, Marquez, Albaldejo, Patterson, Melancon, Heath Phillips, and all the other KIDS WITH LITTLE TO NO MLB EXPERIENCE will be 2-3 surefire #3 or better starters and 3-4 locks for the pen to go with the hasbeen Mussina and flunkies Hawkins, Farnsworth, and Bruney. And the 2008 Yanks will win the World Series with them. Right. Keep deluding yourself along with the other Cashman Disciples. This bullpen won’t shine the shoes of any of the 1996-2003 Yankees bullpens. Hawkins, Farnsworth, Bruney, and ANY kid vying for a job would be #6 on the depth chart behind Mo, Nelson, Stanton, Mendoza, and Grimsley. No one in this bullpen after Mo can touch 2004-05 Tom Gordon. I miss Scott Proctor – he sure beats that young fatso Cashman traded him for (Betemit).

    I don’t think we need “3-4 backup options”. You should tell that to Cashman who stockpiles FIVE backup 1Bs (Ensberg, Lane, Duncan, Betemit, and Miranda).

    Abreu had nowhere to go else writers would’ve reported it. Where was he going? So what Abreu had the same place in NY for 8 years? Actually, Cashman was an idiot for not trading Abrue for Dye because it sure would’ve beat paying Abreu $5M > he’s really worth which is $11M and not even: $9M salary + his $2M buyout. The Yanks lack righthanded power outside A-Rod and that will manifest itself with lefties Damon, Matsui, Abreu, and Giambi a year older and worser, and Posada a year older. BTW did you know Abreu is an AWFUL RF while Dye is a GOOD RF? Guess you didn’t see how Abreu played RF in last year’s ALDS which was like a butcher.

    I never said the 2008 Yankees were “doomed”. I said their 2008 bullpen after Mo su cks and you obviously don’t know anything about baseball if you think Mo, three BUMS (Hawkins, Farnsworth, and Bruney) and 3 nobodies are a postseason-caliber bullpen and newsflash: this isn’t the minor leagues where it’s about “seeing what the kids have”.
    It’s MLB where teams and fans expect results called winning it all. That’s the point – too bad you missed it.

    If anyone’s posting drivel it’s you cuz I’ve obviously rendered you speechless cuz you didn’t counter one thing I said – or answer one scenario I brought up.

  132. Jake February 12th, 2008 at 1:00 pm

    Joba to the Pen…wow. I guess I might have seen this coming. Not necessarily a bad move for the start of the season, but the venture down to AAA seems a bit questionable.

    Anyone else see this as a possible door to a trade for Blanton? I don’t advocate it, but as far as Pettitte’s legal concerns go and possible distractions along with uncertainty and inning limits with the youth, I suppose there are worse possibilities.

  133. Chris February 12th, 2008 at 1:01 pm

    Doom and gloom oh please.

    2008 Yankees Rotation:

    Wang who was manhandled by Cleveland in last year’s ALDS

    Pettitte who will be distracted by his pal Clemens all year

    Hughes who better be the #3 as the Yanks passed on trading him for best starter in MLB Johann Santana

    Mussina who sucked last year and looks like he’s on his last legs in the last year under contract with the Yanks

    Kennedy who had a cup of coffee with the Yanks last September

    2008 Yankees bullpen:

    Mo, Hawkins (bum), Farnsworth only cuz he’s making $5.75M,

    Yeah that’s a World Series winning team alright – NOT!

  134. Stewman23 February 12th, 2008 at 1:04 pm

    Guys, I think Chris might be turning tides and making some sense here with the bullpen…It might not be too late to make some last minute moves for Wickman, Percival & maybe we could trade the Rockies all of our scrub back-up first basemen to bring Vizcaino back for the bullpen. Then we would surely have the veteran experienced bullpen NEEDED to win a WS…I’m with you Chris…just ignore these guys

  135. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge February 12th, 2008 at 1:04 pm

    Are you serious? People pointed out that EVERY SINGLE team has questions.

    Answer me this.

    Who is the Red Soxs closer if Paplebon goes down? Okie, what if he sucks, he is after all “known” to players now. What happens if Beckett, goes down? Who takes his place as a number one? Lester? Lester is a rookie, you can’t rely on him. What happens if Youk goes down? Who plays first? Papi? But what happens if he gets hurt? Than you have no first baseman or dh? OH NO!!

    Do you realize how ridiculous you sound?

  136. OldYanksFan February 12th, 2008 at 1:04 pm

    “comparing cheating multi-millionaires like Rocket and Pettitte to 14 year old pot smokers (or soldiers in Iraq guarding Abu Ghraib like you did the other day) is accurate?”

    I am not comparing Rocket, to 14 year olds, to Abu Ghraib.
    These are examples of a concept, that is:
    Rocket is FAR less a criminal then either McNamee or Radamshk, the same way the 14 year old is FAR less a criminal then the Drug Pusher, the same way the troops, who were carrying out policy and doing their jobs are FAR less criminals they the people IN CHARGE, the people RESPONSIBLE, who created and implimented these policies.
    (You don’t see a similar scape-goating theme?)

    “Radomski and McNamee are small-fry degenerates”
    So you’re saying Roger, Andy and the hundreds of baseball players who personally used PEDs are ‘BIG FRY degenerates’?

    “Should he have locked them out over something that at its core is a player health issue?”
    Yes. This is what leaders do, especially those getting $15m/yr. However:

    1) Health issue? People HATE Bonds because he may have endangered his own health? People HATE Roger and Andy because they may have endangered their own health? Is this what YOU are claiming? Tell me.
    This is about unfair competative advantage, but more so, about hallowed records being broken and stats being skewed.

    2) Lets say Selig demands testing and Fehr says NO, and threatens to close down the season.
    Selig then goes to ALL the newspapers and has a press conference. He says:

    “There is a steroids problem in MLB. Aside from being personally dangerous to players, it is ruining the idea of ‘fair competition’ and sport. And it is sending a TERRIBLE message to our children. I cannot allow it continue, knowing we are risking the health of a generation of children who aspire towards professional, and even high school and collegate sports”.

    I simply want to install a fair process of testing for illegal drugs, similar to the one used in THE OLYMPICS.
    Unfortunately, Din Fehr, head of the baseball union, has said he will NOT cooperate. He is so adament about players NOT being tested, that he is willing to close down the baseball season”

    Waddayathink will happen? Fehr is really going to close down baseball? Maybe Selig could ask Congress to get involved TO SAVE THE CHILDREN.

    Get it. Steroids Bad. Cheating Bad. Fehr could not dodge testing if Selig simply brought in into the light, and (obviously) campaigned to public opinion.

    Imagine the headlines.

    No Dude.
    They have testing now, right?
    Has Don Fehr closed down baseball?
    The problem is they waited until AFTER it became a cancer and they were caught.
    It COULD have, and SHOULD have been done years ago.

  137. SJ44 February 12th, 2008 at 1:06 pm


    Anybody who believes Ron Mahay, Jeremy Affeldt and Jermaine Dye are upgrades to this team doesn’t need to have any of their “points” refuted. They are too ignorant for reasonable debate.

    In your, “I’m off from school today” rant, Bobby Abreu would take a paycut.

    Unfortunately, in the real baseball world, that isn’t going to happen.

    Unless, of course you can show me the last guy in baseball who is taking a paycut coming off a 110/100 RBI season.

    Unlike you, I don’t have all the answers to the season before a pitch is thrown.

    I DO know however, that career journeymen guys like Ron Mahay and Jeremy Affeldt aren’t bullpen solutions. If they were, they would have been grabbed by teams competing for playoff spots. Not second division teams such as Kansas City and Cincinnati respectively.

    I would be more than happy to go into a season with younger, higher ceiling arms, than pluck the waiver wire for useless retreads.

    And, in case reading comprehension isn’t your forte, I dissected your post about the “great” Red Sox bullpen. Read it. You may learn something.

    Your points aren’t worth debating because they are moronic. When you are able to make sense, then I would be more than happy to debate them with you.

  138. Blargh February 12th, 2008 at 1:12 pm

    What would be a post-season calibur bullpen, anyway?
    I’m looking over the 2006 Cardinals bullpen of Isringhausen/Looper/Flores/Hancock/Wainwright

    Jason Isringhausen – 3.55 ERA/1.457 WHIP during regular season; did not pitch in the 2006 post-season

    Braden Looper – 3.56 ERA/1.309 WHIP during the regular season; 1.2 IP/1 H in NLDS (0 ERA), 4.2 IP/7 H/3 ER/1 K in NLCS (5.79 ERA), 2.1 IP/1 H/1 ER/1 K in WS (3.86 ERA)

    Randy Flores – 5.62 ERA/1.704 WHIP during the regular season; 1 IP/2 H/1 BB/1 K in NLDS (0 ERA), 3.2 IP/2 H/3 K in NLCS (still 0), 1 IP/1 H in WS (still 0)

    Josh Hancock – 4.09 ERA/1.208 WHIP during the regular season; 1.2 IP/1 H/2 BB/1 K in NLDS (0 ERA), 0.1 IP/4 H/6 ER/3 BB/ 1K in NLCS (162 ERA), did not pitch in the WS

    Adam Wainwright – 3.12 ERA/1.147 WHIP during the regular season; 3.2 IP/3 H/6 K in NLDS (0 ERA), 3 IP/2 H/1 BB/4 K in NLCS (still 0), 3 IP/2 H/1 BB/5 K in WS (still 0)

  139. Annie Savoy February 12th, 2008 at 1:12 pm

    Here are two things to remember about this:

    Why is the Congress even involved?

    Google ‘anti-trust exemption’ which gave Congress the oversight of the MLB and NFL with interstate commerce.

    How could Roger go to jail?

    The moment Roger started talking to the members of Congress (The Feds) he should have been very careful – if they think he has lied, they can put him in jail under the perjury statutes. Think Martha Stewart, Marion Jones.

  140. Chris February 12th, 2008 at 1:13 pm

    Hey SJ 44

    Bottom line is that bullpen was veteran and experienced. Chuck said no postseason team had a veteran, experienced bullpen. I proved him wrong. How they did was not the issue – the issue was/ is they were all veterans and experienced. Okajima was experienced by virtue of playing in a baseball league above all MLB minor league levels. By your logic Hideki Matsui and Matsuzaka were wet behind the ears when they joined the Yanks and Red Sox? Please.

    What are you talking about Synder had no real role in the pen? He was in the pen. So were all the other VETERAN guys who were released and busts. Timlin had a role. Mike Myers was released -he wasn’t a veteran? I don’t care who the “main” guys were. That bullpen was veteran and experienced save Delcarmen.

    I still win.

  141. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex") February 12th, 2008 at 1:13 pm

    uhoh Chis now you’ve done it SJ & CB are freakin’ vets at this, your on your own man ! :lol: I’ll sit back and enjoy watching thier posts own you

  142. Jake February 12th, 2008 at 1:14 pm

    Wow, its not even Spring Training and some of you are already throwing in the towel? Good God. Let the season begin, let our pitchers show what they have, and then make some judgements.


    SJ44: will you please talk some sense in to these people? They need you now more than ever :)

  143. CB February 12th, 2008 at 1:15 pm

    “Anyone else see this as a possible door to a trade for Blanton?”

    You know what’s great heading into this season? The yankees, for once, really don’t need a guy like Blanton, especially given Beane’s crazy trade requests.

    Beane is going to extract a fortune for Blanton because he’s going to get a team that’s desperate for pitching to buckle.

    The yankees have a lot of question marks on the staff, especially the pen.

    But they are past the point where they are desperate for pitching.

    They’re past the point where they need to make rash moves for mediocre talents like a Blanton because they have internal options that have a strong probability to do as well or better than a Blanton will.

    Somewhere out of their deep stockpile of arms they will be able to come up with at least league average performance, which is what Blanton brings. We may not know the specific individual(s) it will come from but it’ll come.

    How long has it been since you could say that about the yankees? They are not desperate for pitching? How many teams in the league can say that?

    Cash’s plan to create organizational depth is working. The fact that the yankees don’t need to get involved with Beane’s nonsense speaks volumes for where the organization is now.

    A couple of years ago when they had to rely on the Pavano’s and Wright’s of the world they would have made a major play for a Blanton type.

    Those days are hopefully over.

  144. Blargh February 12th, 2008 at 1:17 pm

    Aww, apparently my post got eaten up for some reason

    Anyway, 2006 Cardinals.
    They won the WS that year.
    Was their bullpen that year of the kind fit for champions? You decide!

  145. Yanksrule57 February 12th, 2008 at 1:21 pm


    We are all passionate fans of baseball or we wouldn’t be here. However there is an angry tone to your posts that concerns me. Have you ever considered anger management therapy? Maybe your guidance counselor at school can help you find someone.

  146. mel February 12th, 2008 at 1:21 pm

    Wow, they have everything in cyberspace. Even good old-fashioned pissing matches.

  147. SJ44 February 12th, 2008 at 1:21 pm

    Chris, you put out a list of Red Sox relief pitchers, half of whom were either busts or released by the Red Sox last season!

    Their three MAIN guys in the bullpen, Delcarmen, Okajima and Papelbon had a COMBINED 3 years of ML experience!

    Under your “theory” having 3-4 “veteran” relief pitchers, who get released during a season is a sound strategy.

    You won? What did you win? A cookie for the most moronic posts on this blog for awhile?

    Ok, you win the cookie. Now have your mommy bake some for you and stop posting for awhile until you make sense.

  148. Y's Guy February 12th, 2008 at 1:31 pm

    are you actually saying that the yanks should be pursuing broken-down has-beens like percival and wickman? who would relieve in the 120 or so games those geezers wouldnt be available for?

  149. Ranting Guy February 12th, 2008 at 1:33 pm

    John Rocker’s in the news again. Since bulpen pitching’s so thin these days, do you think any GMs will contact Rocker’s old agent to see if he’s bored with being a retired jock uncle-daddy and wants a try out?

  150. CB February 12th, 2008 at 1:36 pm

    The Padres had by far the best bull pen in all of baseball last year. It wasn’t really that close when you factor in workload.

    They had a team bull pen ERA of 3.01 and worked 549 innings. So they had the best ERA while working the 5th most innings in all of baseball. At the same time they had the second lowest batting average against in all of baseball, again, despite working that many innings.

    Besides Trevor Hoffman, they had almost no veteran relievers. They went with young guys, often off the scrap heap or in small trades – Heath Bell Cla Meredith, Doug Brocail,Kevin Cameron and Justin Hampson.

    Those are all major household names.

    Besides Hoffman the only other “experienced” guy they counted on was Scott Linebrink – who they traded midseason for a AA prospect, Will Inman.

    So the best bull pen in all of baseball had amongst the least experience.

    Amazing how that works.

    But then Keving Towers went and ruined everything this offseason when he didn’t sign valuable arms like Percival, Affeldt, and Mahay to fortify his no experience pen with veterans. What is he thinking?;type=reg


  151. SJ44 February 12th, 2008 at 1:37 pm

    Come on Y’s, haven’t you followed this thread! lol

    The idea is to load up on veterans. Doesn’t matter if they are broken down, can’t pitch, even get waived during the season!

    Just gotta have those vets or the GM is stupid! lol

  152. Chris February 12th, 2008 at 1:42 pm

    SJ 44

    Ron Mahay, Jeremy Affeldt > ANYONE in the Yankees bullpen save Mo. Oh you mean the Jeremy Affeldt who helped the Rockies into last year’s World Series? After Ross Ohlendorf expectedly pissed in his pants and Joba inexplicably pissed in his pants vs. Cleveland. You mean the Ron Mahay who like Affeldt got a major league contract unlike most of the nobodies who will battle for 2008 Yankee bullpen slots? Gotcha. You need your head examined when you think kids with little to no experience are better than veteran lefties. Did you know there are lots of lefthanded batters in the A.L. and no lefties in the 2008 Yankees bullpen which Sean Henn most definitely isn’t as he’s garbage.

    You’re the moron who thinks Mo, 3 bums, and 3 nobodies are a viable Yankees bullpen. I never said get guys off the waiver-wire. ‘You a fortuneteller who can forsee Mahay and Affeldt will be put on it? Yeah, two lefties, hard to find commodities will be just handed to anyone who wants them, right. Laughable.

    Did you just start following the Yankees in 2002 in your “I’m off from looking for a job today” rant? Cuz it’s strange, I do recall Paul O’Neill used to take below market salaries to bat third and play RF for the Yankees for the whole time he was here. Andruw Jones took below market value to stay with the Braves in his prime when he could’ve easily got top dollar. Schilling just came off helping the Red Sox win a World Series and he took a paycut ($8M base salary + incentives vs. $13M guaranteed in 2006).

    Younger, higher ceiling arms? The Yanks never won World Series with that, what makes you think they magically will now in 2008? You need to brush up on your reading comprehension by reading past Yankee pitching staffs at starting with 1976. There you will find all 6 World Series-winning teams and 4 pennant winners won with very little “younger arms with high ceilings”.

    You didn’t “dissect” anything. I proved my point about the ’07 Red Sox bullpen: it was veteran and experienced. Paplebon is experienced after 72 saves in pressure-packed Boston. Timlin was a 41-year old 17-year veteran. Donnelly was on the 2002 World Champion Angels. Okajima pitched in Japan for a decade or so, that isn’t A, AA, or AAA ball.

    I make plenty of sense. Start making points and debating mine. Too late. All you wanna do is say I make no sense blah blah blah, so goodbye.

  153. SJ44 February 12th, 2008 at 1:50 pm


    If you believe Ron Mahay and Jeremy Affeldt are better than Joba Chamberlain, you really need to step away from the computer.

    Seriously, dude, you need to take a deep breath, think and go play or something.

    Mahay and Affeldt were in such “high” demand that nobody who made the playoffs, or aspire to make the playoffs, wanted to give them multi-year contracts.

    If they were as good as you think they are, don’t you think they would have commanded big dollars in the marketplace?

    Now, think for a moment. If Joba Chamberlain was a free agent last year, do you think he would have had a hard time getting a multi-year contract from somebody.

    Are you now saying Joba is now “doomed” with the rest of the Yankees you have cited in your rants today?

    You keep bringing up the “experienced” Red Sox bullpen and put Donnelly on that list. He had ZERO impact on the Red Sox bullpen. Yet, you believe otherwise.

    Really, you need to find a hobby because baseball analysis just ain’t cuttin’ it for you.

  154. Blargh February 12th, 2008 at 1:51 pm

    Chris: We’ll leave whether Affeldt would actually be better or not aside
    We’ll assume that we want him

    Affeldt wanted a chance to START. Would you have given that in order to get him to sign?

  155. KE February 12th, 2008 at 1:54 pm

    Hey Chris,

    Could you please inform all of us what impact Donnelly and Gagne and Piniero had for the Red Sox last year? Please give us some insightful statistics.

  156. vrsce February 12th, 2008 at 1:55 pm


    Just because you now have the impression that Clemens is guilty has as much validity as your impression did yesterday, when you did not think he took PED’s.

    This ugly process, (started by Mitchell, who should have named all users or none) will at least bring out all the evidence. If there is no hard evidence, Roger is innocent, regardless of your impression. Similarly, if there is concrete evidence of use by Clemen’s all of his posturing is worthless

  157. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge February 12th, 2008 at 1:57 pm

    Geez you’ve really gone off the deep end.

    Schilling just came off helping the Red Sox win a World Series and he took a paycut


    Do you know why he took a paycut? Cause he was hurt!! Thats why!! He knew he’d get a more through physical signing with another team, so he took the sure thing.

    Please!! I’ll let Sj take care of the rest.

  158. Don Vito February 12th, 2008 at 1:58 pm

    Hey Chris…ah, nevermind…you’re not even worth the time, Einstein !

  159. Chris February 12th, 2008 at 1:58 pm

    Actually not goodbye yet.

    SJ 44, I put out a list of veteran, experienced relievers who were in the 2007 Red Sox bullpen. ‘Doesn’t matter what they did for the gazillionth time. Yeah, all those bums, how’d they win the 2007 World Series with such a garbage bullpen? If anything, the 2007 Red Sox disprove your notion that “younger arms with higher ceilings” win World Series cuz most of the pitching staff and rotation were not made up of that. Or did you think Delcarmen and Okajima pitched every inning the starters and Paplebon didn’t pitch?

    Loading up on arms? You’re the master of accusing people of what they never said. My point was they need a setup man so Joba can be in the rotation as the #3 if Hughes can’t be that or the #4 if Hughes is the #3. They need a lefty reliever to get out lefties, Sean Henn is not that cuz he hasn’t shown it after being given many chances to get them out. Going with 3 or 4 unknowns and bums save Mo is a recipe for disaster. Cashman doesn’t have the ability to get these two relievers and for that he must be fired if the Yanks don’t make the postseason and let go if they make yet another first-round exit.

  160. KE February 12th, 2008 at 2:00 pm

    Still waiting, Chris, for your airtight argument as to the contributions of Donnelly, Gagne, and Piniero. Give us some stats, please, or don’t waste our time.

  161. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge February 12th, 2008 at 2:11 pm

    Gagme contrbuted. He gaged up a few games during the season. He actually almost single handedly blew the lead in the al east.

  162. Marc February 12th, 2008 at 2:16 pm


    Do you still want Mattingly instead of Girardi?

    How did Cashman do on that one?!

  163. KE February 12th, 2008 at 2:18 pm

    Chris must have been put down for his nap.

  164. Chris February 12th, 2008 at 2:20 pm


    Schilling took a paycut cuz he wasn’t worth the guaranteed $13M he got in 2006 and wanted to stay with the Red Sox that badly. That’s why!!! And you don’t give an old pitcher $8M guaranteed if he’s hurt!!!!!!!

  165. OldYanksFan February 12th, 2008 at 2:24 pm





  166. Chris February 12th, 2008 at 2:36 pm

    KE – They were on the 2007 World Champion Red Sox and helped them win some games. In fact, go to the 2007 Red Sox page on and check their gamelogs then the games and how they fit into them.

    Go back to reading the job classifieds. I unlike you have a job and had to step away from this to do it. Sorry if I didn’t respond between 1:54 and 2:00 (when you posted).

    Jennifer – Gagne was on the Red Sox World Series roster and finished Game 1. That’s important cuz the last thing you want to do is use one more guy you shouldn’t have to use in a 13-1 rout, but then again someone who knows nothing about baseball and is a little chime-inner like you wouldn’t understand that.

    Marc – I never wanted Mattingly to manage. My choice was Girardi. Cashman’s was Trey Hillman who had zero M.L.B. experience but then again that’s par for the course with Brian “I Think I’m The Next Billy Beane” Cashman: desire unprovens to be on a team expected to compete and win it all.

    It’s clear to see you people are crazy. The bottom line is you think Hawkins, Farnsworth, Bruney, and 3 unknowns is a good after Mo-bullpen to go into 2008 with, and because of that, I’m really done with you.

  167. vrsce February 12th, 2008 at 2:41 pm

    You have finally flipped. Must be the PED’s

  168. Vegomatic February 12th, 2008 at 2:41 pm

    Wow, I keep expecting to see rainbowtrout pop up and tell me that the sky is falling…

  169. Blargh February 12th, 2008 at 2:44 pm

    Chris: You never did offer how you would mind control Affeldt into giving up his desire for a chance to start again

    Or your opinion on the bullpen of the 2006 champions

  170. KE February 12th, 2008 at 2:45 pm

    Chris, you’re too funny! Yes, you’re right…we’re all wrong…Donnelly, Gagne, and Pineiro, had a HUGE impact on the Red Sox winning the world series. You’re an absolute genius.

    Oh…you’re done with us? Excellent. Now we don’t have to hear your inane drivel anymore.

  171. Marc February 12th, 2008 at 2:51 pm


    Oh, Cashman thinks he’s Billy Beane?

    Cause, Billy Beane won any championships??!

  172. SJ44 February 12th, 2008 at 2:51 pm

    Cashman wanted Trey Hillman? In whose world, yours?

    Joe Girardi was Cashman’s #1 choice. He wanted Trey Hillman on the coaching staff. He has a lot of respect for Trey (as does most of baseball) but, Girardi was, FAR AND AWAY, Cashman’s #1 choice as manager.

    Honestly, you aren’t now trying to prop up Eric Gagne as a contributor to the Red Sox last year are you?

    He was awful last year and anybody with a scintilla of baseball knowledge knows that.

    Come on, you gotta do better than that if you are going to be insulting people on here.

  173. Dan from Mass February 12th, 2008 at 3:21 pm

    Nice use of “scintilla”

  174. hmmm February 12th, 2008 at 3:32 pm

    “Chris – The Yankees inherited Abreu’s contract from Philadelphia. All they did was exercise the 16 million dollar option.”

    Chris has no desire for facts.

  175. hmmm February 12th, 2008 at 3:39 pm

    “The bottom line is you think Hawkins, Farnsworth, Bruney, and 3 unknowns is a good after Mo-bullpen to go into 2008 with, and because of that, I’m really done with you.”

    thank God. you are the worst poster on this board.

    just awful.

    you know nothing. you constantly insult people. when your arguments are refuted by facts, you just ignore it.

    you post under multiple handles.

    you are just a terrible, terrible poster and it would be awesome if you just stopped posting.

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