It looks good on paper
-
- February
- 12
Brian Cashman says only this about Joba Chamberlain: His role to start the season hasn’t been decided yet. But regardless of what he does, his innings will be limited.
It would make the most sense for Chamberlain to start the season in the bullpen then get built up to become a starter after the All-Star break.
But it’s far too early to assume Ian Kennedy (or Phil Hughes, for that matter) can be plugged into the rotation to start the season.
Kennedy threw a grand total of 19 innings in the majors last season, Hughes 72.2. It’s a bit presumptuous to put them in the rotation yet. Neither is at a point where they can coast through spring training then flip the switch on Opening Day.
Ideally, Hughes and Kennedy are ready and Chamberlain starts off in the pen. But what Kennedy is hit hard this spring? Just start him anyway? The Yankees have only two days off from March 31-May 4. They can’t afford a No. 5 starter who doesn’t deserve the job.
For whatever reason, there is this rush to define Chamberlain’s role. Let’s wait and see how the Yankees look on March 30, not February 12. A lot can change in that time.
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on Tuesday, February 12th, 2008 at 3:24 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Peter Abraham
Amen.
what else will we talk about?
Good points Pete, but I don’t see anyone substantial emerging to push Kennedy or Hughes out of the rotation regardless of how they look in Spring [barring them completely getting shelled]… White, Igawa, Karstens and Rasner are nice but as of right now do not possess half the ability of Hughes/Kennedy..
Its good to exercise some patience though. That I wholeheartedly agree with.
Joba’s role still not in BP or SP I’m taking the guess he is and will be the SP, then he’ll move into the BP.
Joe Girardi will want what Joe Torre strayed away from in recents years …. a long reliever. Jeff Karstens and Darrell Rasner will vie for the role in March and depending on what the starting rotation shapes up as by mid-March, Mike Mussina could see time there also.
Yet another reason why there’s spring training.
I know it freaks out some people but, I like the uncertainty going into the season.
I like the fact the entire roster is not set. I believe that creates competition and competition makes any team, even a veteran team like the Yankees, better.
A combination of a new manager and coaching staff, and spots to be had may just be the formula needed to get off to a better start. Something that has hurt this team bigtime two of the last three years.
I agree with SJ44. Uncertainty makes things interesting and exciting.
There is a rush to try and define Joba’s role because the fans are tired of the offseason and are ready for spring training to begin!
Well, I think Kennedy is a virtual lock to be in the rotation from the get-go because Wang, Pettitte, and Moose would only occupy 3 of the 5 slots and Kennedy will be allowed to throw 180 - 190 IP this season.
Unless Karstens or Rasner really light things up in Spring Training (insert laugh here), I don’t see how both Hughes and Kennedy doesn’t open the season in the rotation.
I’m with SJ. I like the variables and the competition. The uncertainty really only stems around 3 things, pitching, 1B, and the new manager.
Not small things by any means, but when is pitching ever certain? We’ve gone into plenty of ST’s thinking we had a great pitching staff then starters got hurt and relievers (ie Farnsworth) have not lived up to our expectations…
I have faith in Giaradi and think the changes he brings may be, and should be, good for this team.
We’re now looking at a team made up of solid veterans, some in their prime, some not, but still performing at a high level; hungry, energetic young guys; and a hungry young manager. Sounds a lot more like the ‘96 to ‘01 teams to me than the ‘02 - ‘07 teams (and yes, I say this despite the names on the roster not being that much different from last year to now).
This is a no brianer. Put him in the bullpen.
If starting pitching can get us to the 6th, (and then we bow and pray during the 7th with Farnsy or Hawkins), then 8th and 9th are pretty much automatic.
but like Pete said…it looks good on paper…
What you’re telling us, Pete, is that for the Yankees to reach the WS this year, the Red Sea will have to part and water must be converted into wine. It will take a miracle.
What you’re telling us, Pete, is that if we wanted this season to be anything, Cashman should have traded for Santana. (Or CC, for gawdsakes!)
We’ve got to pamper some pretty talented kids who are grown men whose arms have been shooting around in those unnatural ways since they were in diapers. Let ‘em pitch. No one pampered Satchel Paige or Walter Johnson.
Joba should be Mo’s setup man. Plain and simple.
It’s safe to say that Carl Pavano will never be seen at Old Timers Day at the Stadium even if he submits to being rolled on the field in a hospital gurney pushed by Kevin Brown.
I agree with SJ too.
I think a little uncertainty keeps everyone on their toes and builds a little anticipation for opening day.
“I don’t see how both Hughes and Kennedy doesn’t open the season in the rotation.”
What if they, somehow, stink it up? It’s possible. That’s Pete’s point. Not that he thinks Rasner or someone has the stuff to beat out Kennedy performing to his ability level…but what if one of these young guys struggles?
The best laid plans, and all that.
“Joba should be Mo’s setup man. Plain and simple.”
Um…Should Beckett go set up Papelbon? No? Then Joba should not be Mo’s setup man. He should be given every chance to become an MLB starter, and part of that is getting him to 140-150 innings this season.
whozat is right. Joba is and should be a starter. Being the setup man for a month or two to limit his innings is one thing, long-term, the goal is, and should be for him to start.
Assuming the ideal, and hughes, kennedy and moose are all pitching well at the break, and joba has been good out of the ‘pen, who gets bumped from the rotation when they’re done stretching him out in the minors? Do hughes or kennedy get sent down? to the ‘pen? do you really ask moose to move to long relief if he’s in the middle of a bounce back season? any thoughts?
and I’m not sure if I like the idea of him starting off the season in the pen, versus ending it in the pen. Seems like it would be more natural to start first then finish the season in the pen, as he did last year. I like the part of the supposed plan in the Post in terms of what it does in terms of stabilizing the pen while others prove themselves in the beginning of the season, but I’m not sure if that’s what’s best for Joba. I guess we’ll find out what the experts on the Yankees think in due time.
“Do hughes or kennedy get sent down? to the ‘pen? do you really ask moose to move to long relief if he’s in the middle of a bounce back season? any thoughts?”
Well, Phil needs his innings limited as well. So that’s a consideration. Also, Moose, even in his last good season, had leg problems after the break.
These things work themselves out due to injury extremely often.
This whole innings thing with Joba is complicated. I guess that’s what happens when you only have 1 year of minor league baseball under your belt. Like Chris said I think I like him better starting in the rotation then let him finish the season the pen. But he’s going to have to stretch his arm out in July before he can go back in the rotation and pitch 6/7 innings. I don’t know how the Yankees are going to do that. Maybe send him to the minors for a few starts until he builds up his arm strength?
Um, I thought Joba’s role was already determined? Every paper and blog is running with this: http://www.nypost.com/seven/02122008/sports/yankees/its_a_setup_97303.htm?page=0
jon, despite what the papers are saying they were told by “team officials,” Cashman (as Pete said on here), hasn’t said anything specific and no-one from the Yankees has yet been quoted on any official plan. Hopefully that’s because it’s too soon to make that decision, since spring training hasn’t even officially begun.
The debate will rage on for the next 4 weeks with Joba’s status but the truth is, the only real absolute is that Joba will accept whatever role he’s given.
It all hinges with who emerges for the first two weeks of March as the 4th and 5th starters and in the set-up role in the bullpen.
Before a pitch is ever thrown, Mussina and Farnsworth are in the forefront as those with the most to prove.
So what if they struggle in Spring Training? Cashman already knows that they are going to have their share of growing pains this season.
It doesn’t make sense for either of them to lose a job because they struggle in Spring Training because it would show a lack of confidence.
Girardi is not going to do that. He’ll let them work out their struggles in the rotation and take the lumps as long as they aren’t Mussina-esque from August of last year.
The kids are going to get thrown into the fire. We’re all hoping they come out the better for it.
It will be especially intersting to see how Phil Hughes handles the scrutiny that will inevitably come this year. One had to be impressed with the way he handled his first postseason appearance. He had such a confident demeanor on the mound. It translated into a 3 to 1 strike to ball ratio. He had great body language and great command. That’s the Phil Hughes we hope to see every 5th day.
12 days earlier Hughes threw 99 pitches in 5 inings and couldnt get the win in a game in which the Yanks scored 12 runs. Being efficient with his pitches will be the key to his success in ‘08, especially with a limit on the number of innings the Yanks will allow him to pitch.
I for one hope we have the “problem” of Hughes, Joba, IPK, AND Moose all healthy and pitching well…
They should keep a 5-man rotation but rotate Moose, Kennedy, Phil and Joba. So it would be:
Wang, Pettite, Mussina, Kennedy, Hughes,
Wang, Pettite, Chaimberlain, Mussina, Kennedy,
Wang, Pettite, Hughes, Chaimberlain, Mussina,
Wang, Pettite, Kennedy, Hughes, Chaimberlain
This would give each young pitcher (and Mussina) 24 starts each. This would give Joba a little over 6 innings a start.
It wouldn’t surprise me to see a Jeff Karstens or one of the other kids have a terrific Spring and put pressure on Girardi to keep Mussina in the rotation. I think Moose is going to have to show he can still pitch. His days of having a guaranteed spot are over.
rotating guys in and out like that usually leads to inconsistency in their pitching. Especially guys like Moose that are creatures of habit and need to have the same routine between starts.
Pete,
I agree that Hughes & Kennedy should not be a lock for the rotation. However, I am pretty sure that both of them will be better than Igawa was last year and the team nursed him through, what, two months of the rotation?
wang and pettitte are the only locks for the rotation, moose has a spot unless he pitches his way out during ST, Hughes is probably the same as moose and kennedy’s gonna battle igawa, karstens, rasner and whomever else for #5. Joba probably starts in the pen. If any of the starters cant go, joba gets #5
Many times you don’t have to make a decision. Because of performance and/or injury, decisions get made for you.
Ian Kennedy has so far dominated at every level, including MLB. He is ready and as long as he can stay in the 3.5-4.5 range ill take that first half next year.
Phil Hughes was the #1 pitching prospect in baseball in 06. He was injured pitching a no hitter and averaged nearly 2 mph less with his fastball after the injury. A healthy Hughes will be really good.
It’s a good situation to have extra SP. Also it’s a good option to start Chamberlain in the BP the first months, and after the all-star break move him back to start (so he can be fresh to start in the postseason).
By that time we are hoping that one of the youngsters is going to fill the hole Joba leaves in the BP (Sanchez, Melancon, Veras).
Since Hughes is likely to have some IP restraints as well (110 IP IN ‘07, 145 in ‘06, how about this for a plan?
Joba starts in the pen for about 2 months, goes AAA to stretch out IP, work his other pitches for 2-3 weeks. When Joba returns, Hughes hits the pen for about a month (let’s say late June to late July to fill 1 setup spot (somebody else has to step up in the pen for Joba’s short AAA stint, then goes to AAA for 2 weeks to stretch back up. Kennedy, who threw 165 in ‘07 so has the highest IP cap, serves as the #5 all year (hopefully), skipping some starts to keep his IP a little lower. Karstens, Igawa, et. al. are hopefully ready to fill in if needed.
Now it’s Aug 15, all 6 starters are ready to rock, best 5 go, odd man to the pen. Or Moose gets a break in the pen right when he fell off the table last year. I’d rather have all 6 ready to start closing the season and heading to the playoffs - the 4 best get the playoff starting slots. Ideally one of Hughes or Joba sticks in the #3 slot, the other is prepped as a playoff setup guy. And one of Moose or IPK is the #4, both available for pen duty as well.
Of course, the best laid plans of moose & men…
The pen’s trickier. I’d start with Mo, Joba, Farns, Hawk, Bruney & Henn (both out of options), and Rasner in the long spot. Karstens and Igawa in AAA with the kids stretched out and ready to cover for injuries (it can’t be as bad as last year). The best of the cast of 1,000’s in AAA pick up whoever falls. Hopefully Britton gets a decent look this year, Edwar, Ohlendorf, Traber et al are ready to pitch in. Depth is a good thing. I still won’t be surprised if Villone shows up on a minors deal at some point - haven’t heard boo about him. Any news about the old lefty Jersey guy?
Maybe Pavano will be filling that spot in the rotation…. ::grin, duck, and run:: hehehe
Hope it isn’t too difficult going from throwing basically two pitches to four. But I suppose he can work on others in sides. The reason he goes back into rotation after AS Break is because Mark Melancon will step into the setup role by then.