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Breaking news: Pettitte excused from spring training until Monday

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Feb 13, 2008 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

After speaking with Brian Cashman and Joe Girardi on Tuesday night, Andy Pettitte was given permission not to report to spring training until Monday. The rest of the team’s pitchers and catchers will report tomorrow.

“It was an easy decision,” Cashman said.

Pettitte will miss three days of drills.

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200 Responses to “Breaking news: Pettitte excused from spring training until Monday”

  1. MikeEff - Shelley at First February 13th, 2008 at 6:28 pm

    it’s a real shame that congress dragged this out as long as they could for their own publicity purposes. they aren’t fooling anyone with their sanctimonious statements.

  2. SJ44 February 13th, 2008 at 6:39 pm

    The Yankees need to take the next few days with Pettitte and prep him for Monday. It will be a freak show.

    He should also talk to Jason Giambi about how to handle all this.

    The Big G may not be a mensa candidate. However, of ALL the people embroiled in this stuff, nobody has come out better (in the public’s eyes) than Giambi.

    Probably, because folks see him as a loveable lug who told the truth.

    Andy has to say the right things on Monday and then, that’s it. Not more talk of this for the rest of the year.

    If he gets through Monday well, he will be fine for the season.

  3. Chris NY February 13th, 2008 at 6:39 pm

    Andy should hold a press conference tomorrow or Friday and get all the questions over with now so when he gets to ST it will be less of a distraction for everyone else. Maybe that’s part of why he was excused till Monday.

  4. mel February 13th, 2008 at 6:40 pm

    Missing 3 days of drills hurts, but it’s the best thing.

    Girardi gets to open ST without the circus and Andy can gather himself emotionally.

  5. Say it ain't so February 13th, 2008 at 6:41 pm

    I think if Andy just apologizes to no end on Monday, he’ll be fine. The problem is, I think he’s going to end up being defensive about all of this and it might make him look bad. Either way, they’re going to grill him with Clemens questions.

  6. Dee February 13th, 2008 at 6:41 pm

    Well, if George Mitchell aka Mr. Red Sox Hired Gun’s ulterior motive was to taint the Yankees’ reputation and to distract our players, his mission was accomplished.

    And to know that they used my tax dollars to fund this disgusting BS…yes I am FURIOUS!

  7. Jimmy February 13th, 2008 at 6:46 pm

    Andy is mentally tough and will be fine.

  8. * * THEE BOSTON BUGLE * February 13th, 2008 at 6:55 pm

    George Mitchell’s suite at Fenway Park has been upgraded to one equal to John Henry’s due to a favorable report. John Henry sees it as a feel good story.

  9. EYT February 13th, 2008 at 6:55 pm

    youd think as a bible thumper andy would be familiar with judas iscariot and how his reputation held up. he should have plead the 5th. straight out. more despicable then betraying clemens was throwing his father under the bus and dragging he and his wife into it. it used to be a pleasure to watch him, no more. what a failure as a human being. and i hope he is reading this.

  10. Doreen February 13th, 2008 at 7:07 pm

    EYT –

    Go away. Please. You’ve had your 5 minutes.

  11. EYT February 13th, 2008 at 7:10 pm

    whatever, doreen? who are you to tell me my opinion is not valid? is there anything sadder than a middle aged woman trolling for companionship on a sports blog 24/7 anyway?

  12. Bronx Born February 13th, 2008 at 7:16 pm

    EYT that was totally unnecessary. You made your point no reason to get personal.

  13. EYT February 13th, 2008 at 7:19 pm

    your right bronx born. that was out of line, probably true, but out of line nonetheless. in defense she came after me first, but i should have ignored her. sorry

  14. Bronx Born February 13th, 2008 at 7:26 pm

    Yes she did in a way but it was not personal like this. this is a blog and we get along with each other somehow. personal attacks are really not warranted true or not (you did not have to put in that dig either). good manners and good sportsmanship are important don’t you think? But thank you for apologizing.

  15. Joe from Long Island February 13th, 2008 at 7:27 pm

    People – here or anyplace else – should not be self-righteous.

    It’s not right. As a famous person once said, “He who is without sin, let him cast the first stone.”

    And that was a despicable comment about Doreen. I know some characters get into insults here, and that’s wrong. That comment was dead wrong.

  16. EYT February 13th, 2008 at 7:29 pm

    whatever, i actaully just want to talk baseball. i apologized and im done with it. i refer all future posts to my attorney rusty.

  17. Boston Dave February 13th, 2008 at 7:30 pm

    Bronx Born,

    EYT has been extremely offensive on previous threads and Doreen’s comment was well deserved

  18. EYT February 13th, 2008 at 7:34 pm

    God you are whiny Boston Dave. Is your big brother Bronx Born going to protect you now?

  19. Bronx Born February 13th, 2008 at 7:36 pm

    EYT, I thought we settled this like gentleman. Is that not so? Are you going to make me wrong for coming to Doreen’s defense? Or can you simply move on and talk baseball, which we all want.

  20. OldYanksFan February 13th, 2008 at 7:36 pm

    whatever, doreen? who are you to tell me my opinion is not valid?
    ———————————————————–
    Can I also tell you your “opinion is not valid”?
    Maybe we can take a vote on it.
    Why would you hang on a blog where you are not wanted?

  21. randy l. February 13th, 2008 at 7:36 pm

    doreen, i just read andy’s deposition as you suggested.
    he said simply that roger told him 7-8 years ago that he had taken hgh. here’s the quote:
    ” In 1999 or 20OO, I had a conversation with Roger Clemens in
    which Roger told me tllat he had taken human growth hormone (“HGH”). ”

    let me get this straight. andy thinks that roger tells him that and then they never discuss it again except once 5 years later when clemens tells andy that he was mistaken.

    so according to andy they had two really short conversations about using illegal hgh and only one where he thought roger said he used hgh.

    i believe if pettitte thought clemens did hgh and then did it himself, they would talk about it a lot. possibly hundreds of times over the years.
    mentioning it once is just not credible when illegal activity is an ongoing activity . i think pettitte was simply mistaken in what clemens said.

    i’m not going to bash andy because i have a good deal of respect for him, but as i said before, he’s no saint or paragon of honesty .

    all this money spent and they come up with andy heard something once from clemens 7-8 years ago. people can do all the gut level feeling they want to about who is telling the truth, but you don’t convict someone on something that one person says another person said once to them.

    what is it ?” a smoking” comment? it’s no smoking gun, that’s for sure.

    if one of your friends said 7-8 year ago that you said you drove drunk, would that prove you did? i don’t see how it would. it only proves she remembered it that way. she may have been wrong. one thing i know is that you are not going to get a dui because a friend who could not tell a lie said she thought you said something.
    there has to be more than that.

    i think if you asked andy if he believed in evolution, you’d get an answer that makes you wonder about andy’s reasoning ability. great guy, but not laser sharp at least according to our northeast standards.

  22. Boston Dave February 13th, 2008 at 7:37 pm

    EYT -

    i need no protection – certainly not from you. you are a POS and everyone in here will see that on their own, in time.

    please continue with all the insults. i find them amusing. what else you got?

  23. Olde Town Glory February 13th, 2008 at 7:38 pm

    Putting off his arrival will only make the situation worse when he does arrive. It certainly appears as if he’s distracted and Spring Training hasn’t even begun yet. Bet he wishes he just retired now.

  24. whoa February 13th, 2008 at 7:40 pm

    Regarding Petitte, “The truth shall set you free.” – The Bible

  25. Boston Dave February 13th, 2008 at 7:42 pm

    randy l -

    i thought the same thing. its very strange.

    one thing i also found puzzling was the some of the committee members seemed to use pettitte’s wife as an additional witness. if pettitte was mistaken about his interpretation of what clemens has said and told his wife what he thought, how does she add to the equation?

    when pettitte and clemens spoke of hgh again, clemens said that pettitte misunderstood him and pettitte says he believed clemens that he must have. if pettitte had confirmed anything with mcnamee prior to that, why would pettitte believe roger on that regard?

  26. randy l. February 13th, 2008 at 7:42 pm

    doreen-
    just read the silly comments about you on the blog. i will simply say i have the utmost respect for you and always welcome seeing your comments. i consider you among the top ten of who i look for on the blog because of your common sense that you inject into the conversation.

    you don’t always agree with me , but i like seeing your opinion always.

  27. EYT February 13th, 2008 at 7:43 pm

    randy l that is a great analogy on the dui.

    its also interesting that no one is talking about how all of this negative media attention pettite is bringing with him will harm the team while many took arod to task in the past for it.

  28. Boston Dave February 13th, 2008 at 7:45 pm

    doreen,

    I second randy l’s statement and I imagine that is a shared opinion of many on the blog.

  29. Fran February 13th, 2008 at 7:47 pm

    Doreen,
    Count me in.

  30. Doreen February 13th, 2008 at 7:49 pm

    Randy l -

    Personally, I think it’s very easy to mis-hear, misinterpret or misunderstand what someone else says, depending on the circumstances, so I do not necessarily doubt Roger when he says that Andy misremembered what he said. I have half-heard my husband more times than I want to count, because I’m distracted by other thoughts. So I will agree with you that Andy’s statement about Roger is no smoking gun.

    Also, when Pettitte was talking about McNamee coming over in a huff and telling him Roger was taking steroids, that sent up a red flag to me regarding McNamee’s motives there. The surrounding circumstances had to do with promoting a vitamin program for McNamee and while Pettitte said he would do it for free vitamins, Clemens wanted compensation and McNamee was po’d about that, because it quashed the deal.

    I’ve said all along that McNamee thought there’d be a big payday coming from training Roger Clemens and I think when he realized that wasn’t going to happen, the wheels started turning.

    But I’m not convinced Roger didn’t at least try something.

  31. Mark Alan February 13th, 2008 at 7:50 pm

    Dee…

    George Mitchell is not just a “hired gun” for the Red Sox; he’s a minority owner. Read this article from the New York Times. Here’s the money ‘graph:

    [John] Henry, who has owned the Marlins for three years, will be joined in the Red Sox ownership by, among others, Tom Werner, former managing partner of the San Diego Padres; Larry Lucchino, former president of the Padres and the Baltimore Orioles; George Mitchell, former United States senator from Maine; and The New York Times Company, which owns The Times and The Boston Globe.

  32. OldYanksFan February 13th, 2008 at 7:51 pm

    What’s amazing to me is how FEW intelligent or insightful questions were asked by the congresspeople. The rehashed a lot of the obvious topics and very few asked anything probing.

    I hope these folks are more intelligent then they appear.

  33. randy l. February 13th, 2008 at 7:51 pm

    boston dave-
    let me get this straight. pettitte and clemens hung out for almost a decade. andy thinks clemens said once he used hgh .

    we are to believe, according to andy, being the good old gullible guy he is , he says “great roger” and then never brings it up again. except for once five years later when he’s told he got it wrong.

    this would be the conversation between two guys who are stars who are cheating? it makes no sense. if they both were cheating and they both knew they were cheating there might even be hundreds of conversations.

    a one sentence comment just doesn’t cut it as evidence to me. it sounds more like andy heard it wrong.

  34. Doreen February 13th, 2008 at 7:53 pm

    Thanks, all, for your support, but I should have ignored him to begin with. It started with a comment of his on the prior thread that I just couldn’t let go.

    Boston Dave –

    It really annoyed me how the members of congress were giving such weight to Laura Pettitte’s affidavit. All she was doing was confirming what her husband told her. If he’d told her the sky was purple, she had said he told her the sky was purple. It doesn’t make the sky purple. It added no substance and all it did was prove (maybe) that her husband talked to her about it.

  35. Travis February 13th, 2008 at 7:54 pm

    Andy Pettitte has always been my favorite modern ballplayer. I lost some respect for him when he admitted he used HGH, but he restored a lot of my faith in him by being honest about Roger and his dad. Deep down, Andy is a person who takes right and wrong seriously, and I commend him for staying strong during what must be an awful time.

  36. Dee February 13th, 2008 at 7:56 pm

    Hi everyone,

    I missed Andy’s wife’s role in this hearing. Was her testimony simply to back up what Andy said about what Roger supposedly told him in 1999/2000? I’m having trouble understanding her role and why she is a reliable witness.

  37. whoa February 13th, 2008 at 7:56 pm

    randy i’s point is reasonable, but even if it’s true, it would make Pettitte look bad and Clemens look worse.

  38. whoa February 13th, 2008 at 7:57 pm

    Andy’s wife merely provided contemporaneous corroboration of what Andy testified to.

  39. EYT February 13th, 2008 at 7:59 pm

    pettite took the easy way out by revealing a meaningless conversation to save his hide. he already has lied several times re: his use of HGH and now he is in crisis mode and using his faith as a shield. he should have kept his wife, his father, and his best friend out of it and lived with the guilt as penance.

  40. Boston Dave February 13th, 2008 at 8:10 pm

    randy l

    one thing that also struck me somewhat was that pettitte seemed to be uncertan of some things when first asked but then shortly after would recall more. This could be a result of many factors, but Pettitte knew exactly why he was going there and what questions he’d likely be asked. I have to think he went over some of this in his head at some point prior.

    I can’t draw many conclusions from that, other than the point you brought up that this is likely not enough evidence to really add to the equation.

  41. randy l. February 13th, 2008 at 8:10 pm

    doreen-
    i’m not sure that roger didn’t ever do anything either. i’m not sure derek jeter never used any peds either, but i strongly doubt he did.

    in a court of law, it has to be proved without a doubt that roger used steroids or hgh.
    there is no way what has been presented so far reaches the level of without a reasonable doubt. there is reasonable doubt.

    is there reasonable doubt that mcnamee date raped the florida woman? since he said today that he totally lied to the police about that, i think it’s safe to say he is pretty much admitting to rape.
    mcnamee is a serial liar. anyone who hitches their wagon to him is going to be embarrassed. i suspect waxman will be eating his apology to mcnamee as time goes on.

    dr. mcnamee? what a joke.

  42. whoa February 13th, 2008 at 8:16 pm

    Clemens doesn’t face a loss of life, liberty, or property. Consequently, it’s reasonable to make a judgment, outside of a court of law, about whether or not he is telling the truth based on the available information.

    It’s no longer about McNamee and Clemens. It’s about Clemens’s inconsistent statements, his ludicrous explanations, a medical interpretation of his MRI that may reveal that he has an abscess from steroids, and Pettitte’s testimony.

  43. jennifer-Phil Hughes saved!! February 13th, 2008 at 8:17 pm

    Sounded like he said Monday the latest, so he possibly could show up earlier.

  44. Boston Dave February 13th, 2008 at 8:18 pm

    randy l / doreen,

    i also cant say i dont think roger used peds. but its become more clear than ever that he shouldn’t have been included in the report when there was no credible evidence. some will argue that pettitte’s evidence is damning, but even so, that and some of the other ‘evidence’ wasn’t available or known at the time of the report’s release.

    i am thankful that some of the committee members at least mentioned briefly that the mitchell report might not have been the most thorough of documents.

  45. Boston Dave February 13th, 2008 at 8:20 pm

    whoa,

    you are right about your first sentence. i lost you on the second one. at least i didnt have the same analysis of the testimony that you did.

  46. OldYanksFan February 13th, 2008 at 8:21 pm

    “Andy is a person who takes right and wrong seriously…”
    ——————————————————–
    It might be a good idea for all of us to consider that ‘right and wrong’ is rarely black and white, an is always effected by circumstance and individual perception.

    It’s too bad we have to sit in judgement on these guys, epecially with McNamee and Radamski sitting in the wings.
    Actually, I though the most dispicable person in the room was Waxman, who obviously had an adjenda, and used his position to push it.

    Scarey that these people are our lawmakers.

  47. Boston Dave February 13th, 2008 at 8:23 pm

    whoa -

    p.s. “based on the available information”

    many people made up their minds well before all of the available information was available. some made it immediately after the report was released. there has to be a point where people need to reserve judgment. i think its fair for people to make one if they choose to after today even though i still cant personally make a definitive opinion based on the avail. info.

  48. whoa February 13th, 2008 at 8:23 pm

    That’s your right, BD.

  49. Travis February 13th, 2008 at 8:24 pm

    I don’t think that telling the truth – even if it involves a good friend – is equivalent in any to throwing someone under the bus. I support Andy and wish, as I am sure he does, that none of this ever happened.

  50. Bronx Born February 13th, 2008 at 8:25 pm

    All we have is heresay evidence and McNammee’s word which is more than a little bit tainted. And I do not believe for one new york minute that he has not cut a deal to stay out of jail or be prosecuted. Didn’t Novitzy tell him to “fess up” or he was headed for the slammer?

  51. Boston Dave February 13th, 2008 at 8:25 pm

    OldYanksFan,

    I agree on Waxman. But to play devil’s advocate, there were some that kissed Roger’s ass and didnt ask him one pertinent question.

    alas, the whole thing seemed to be a mess.

  52. Doreen February 13th, 2008 at 8:27 pm

    Randy l -

    I started reading McNamee’s deposition. Serial liar? He changes his story every single sentence, it seems, or as things “occur” to him. No, I truly don’t understand how anyone could have ever trusted their livelihoods to this person.

    I was appalled that Waxman made a point of apologizing to him. I didn’t think anyone was particularly out of line in their comments to him. But that is my opinion.

    There certainly is reasonable doubt here. Absolutely. I’m just trying to make some sense out of whatever I can.

    Boston Dave,

    I try to relate things to what’s happened to me over the years in a general way, anyway, since I can’t really relate to the particulars. But we’ve all been in situations where you’re talking about something and you remember a little, and then the floodgates open and you remember more. It is possible for that to happen. It’s also possible for two people to grow up in the same home and have two almost entirely different sets of some particular memories.

    I would say that while Pettitte’s and even Knoblauch’s recollections seemed to be of that variety – the “oh, yeah, this happened, too,” sort — McNamee’s definely seem more calculated. There’s also the power of suggestion – you vaguely remember something and someone “fills in the blanks” for you and it sounds reasonable so you adopt it as true. Plus you cannot discount the stress of having to appear before Congress. I never want to have to do that!

    And how many times do you go for an interview – you know you’re going, you’ve done the research, you know what you’re going to ask and answer – then in the stress or excitement or heat of the moment, everything you’ve planned goes out the window, or at the very least you leave the interview and review it in your head only to realize, “darn, I never said (fill in the blank).”

    I’m just saying, it’s a lot easier on the outside looking in, is all.

  53. whoa February 13th, 2008 at 8:28 pm

    BD,

    There are no consequences to the general public reaching a conclusion about a public figure based on news reports. It’s done all the time. Is it fair? Maybe not, but it’s human nature.

    As for this particular case, from my perspective, as I have learned more facts about what has transpired, I believe it supports my initial supposition.

    Again, as I told you before, I realize my bias, and I would not consider myself to be capable of sitting in judgment of Clemens in a court of law.

  54. Boston Dave February 13th, 2008 at 8:28 pm

    whoa,

    i can only think of one real inconsistent statement from roger (re: his wife)

    which of his statements qualify as “ludicrous” ?

    was there not a conflicting medical opinion? also, didnt mcnamee either lie or completely bungle up the dates regarding when roger had this abscess?

    as we discussed earlier in this thread, there is reasonable doubt regarding pettitte’s testimony and how damaging it is or is not.

    there are just many uncertainties. i guess i am naive and choose not to judge in a situation like this where almost nothing is certain.

  55. Boston Dave February 13th, 2008 at 8:31 pm

    whoa,

    I agree 100% about the general public. I just think, in general, that the decisions that are made are not always that well-informed. i dont expect people to do the incessant research that I have, but I think you can agree that reading the occasional ESPN headline probably isnt enough.

    That doesn’t change anything… I just take the majority public opinion on a matter like this with a grain of salt.

  56. Boston Dave February 13th, 2008 at 8:35 pm

    Doreen -

    I agree. I tried to point out that Pettitte’s “oh yeahs” could be the result of many factors (including the ones you mentioned). It just seemed that it happened quite often and I believe on a couple of occasions it was on the major topics.

    I was trying to say, maybe not well, that it didn’t seem like Pettitte was 100% certain of all of the things he was saying. It seemed like there were many “I’m pretty sure” and “I think that’s what happened” instances. When you’re talking about things that occurred 10 years ago, that’s natural… but need to be taken into consideration.

  57. whoa February 13th, 2008 at 8:36 pm

    BD

    I don’t find his claim that he wasn’t informed that Mitchell tried to contact him to offer his rebuttal to McNamee’s allegations to be credible. If it were true, wouldn’t he have fired the Hendricks brothers? It’s a really big deal.

    I said the medical interpretation the MRI “may reveal” an abscess. It certainly supports the allegation that he MAY have had one, rather than being able to dismiss it out of hand. Weren’t the dates off by about a month or a month and a half, from June to late July/early August? If so, that doesn’t seem like being off that much.

    But Pettitte’s testimony is even more damning than we knew it to be at that time.

    Also, McNamee apparently told the truth about Knoblach as well as Pettitte. Why would he only lie about Clemens?

    You’re free to have any opinion you want, just like everyone else.

  58. randy l. February 13th, 2008 at 8:36 pm

    i think mcnamee says he stopped giving players steroids and hgh after 2002. even if someone believes him about clemens, how is clemens off the charts success explained after 2002?

    do people who think clemens cheated think he got peds elsewhere after 2002? if so, where is the proof? seems like there would be some paper trail. some cash transactions. clemens doesn’t appear like he’d be good at getting illegal drugs without leaving some trail if he did it. he’s just not that sophisticated. do you think he was kidding when he said he didn’t know what a vegan was? i do not believe that clemens would be good at doing a long time illegal activity. so where is the proof after the point where mc namee says he stopped?

    or is there no proof afterwards because mcnamee was just making things up in his “dr. mcnamee” way?

  59. whoa February 13th, 2008 at 8:42 pm

    Why is it not reasonable to think that a person who had injections of PEDs at one time would try to find someone else to give him PEDs at a later date?

    Why does there have to be proof for purposes of public discussion? It’s not like we have the ability to conduct an independent investigation or to impose punishement.

    It’s not like Clemens is facing charges.

    Again, it’s no longer about Clemens v. McNamee. There are other people and other evidence that cast doubt on his veracity.

  60. Boston Dave February 13th, 2008 at 8:43 pm

    whoa,

    definitely. i am fine with agreeing to disagree. i do agree that many of the things you’ve said raise questions. i just dont agree that we know all the answers to those questions. i also dont think its fair to say “well, i would have done it this way and since roger didnt, he must be guilty”

    if andy pettitte said he injected roger, that’s a big deal. roger not firing his agent, i dont believe is a big deal at all.

  61. Boston Dave February 13th, 2008 at 8:45 pm

    whoa,

    it IS reasonable to think that roger might have continued taking PEDs after 2002 if he used them prior.

    but again, there is no evidence to support it. just like there is virtually no credible evidence to support anything in this case. you cant rule much out. you also cant rule much “in”.

  62. whoa February 13th, 2008 at 8:47 pm

    BD,

    I didn’t mean to suggest that not firing his agent is a big deal, I’m saying that the failure to inform him of Mitchell’s request is a big deal, and I have trouble believing that his well established agent (and perhaps the MLBPA) would be that negligent. These are people who are at the top of their profession for a reason, and it’s not because they don’t do their due diligence.

  63. randy l. February 13th, 2008 at 8:48 pm

    “Why would he only lie about Clemens?”
    it’s possible that mcnamee would not get immunity from novitsky and parrella if he didn’t come up with someone bigger than knoblach and pettite using hgh a few times.

    he may have been told only some “truths” would get immunity.

    who ever heard of someone getting immunity just for telling the truth no matter what it is. its always if you tell a specific truth. why would a federal agent give immunity to an admitted drug dealer if they didn’t know he;d finger someone bigger. if there was no one bigger , they’d be giving immunity for nothing.

    i don’t think the federal agents would be getting a raise for doing that.

  64. OldYanksFan February 13th, 2008 at 8:49 pm

    I agree on Waxman. But to play devil’s advocate, there were some that kissed Roger’s ass and didnt ask him one pertinent question.
    ———————————————————-
    As I posted, there were VERY few valid or probing questions… from both sides. But Waxman was the chairman. He could have recused himself from chairing. His closing statement, where he shut Roger up and apologized to McNamee was disgusting beyond words.

  65. whoa February 13th, 2008 at 8:50 pm

    BD,

    Do you really think it’s likely that McNamee, who is only involved in this particular mater because of his relationship with Roger Clemens, shot up Pettitte, Knoblach, and Debbie Clemens, but not Roger? That’s just not credible to me.

    And if I was Roger Clemens, and some guy shot up my wife in her tight and shapely butt without telling me, I would have fired him and kicked his butt.

  66. McLovin February 13th, 2008 at 8:56 pm

    Pettitte who I know is a good guy should have retired.This will screw him up.

  67. Boston Dave February 13th, 2008 at 8:56 pm

    whoa,

    that is absolutely a vital and valid question. i would say probably not. but considering all factors, and mcnamee’s record of lying, i just cant say its enough to make me think roger is absolutely guilty. mcnamee lied on so many occasions specifically dealing with roger. he also may have had some motive (as doreen reminded us when speaking of the vitamin deal mcnamee was hoping to land).

    i agree about roger’s wife as well. but i am pretty sure that roger and i are completely different people. vastly different. i cannot say that because roger only yelled at mcnamee that it means much of anything. he did curse out mcnamee supposedly. its not like it went unnoticed. in addition, debbie asked him for it so it was partially her fault (if there is blame to be given).

    again, you give some great points and raise good questions, but i still havent seen one piece of credible evidence that is all that damning against roger. there are just a bunch of “ifs” and “maybes”.

  68. Boston Dave February 13th, 2008 at 9:00 pm

    whoa,

    as i said weeks ago, if my life was on the line, i’d say roger used PEDs. however, by no means am i certain of it and by no means whatsoever do i think he should have been in the report based on such little evidence. clemens was in the report for one main reason – because he would bring credibility (at least that was the hope) to the report.

  69. randy l. February 13th, 2008 at 9:11 pm

    old yanks fan-
    do you get the feeling like i do that behind the scenes that waxman and the gop opposition on the committee agree to a dog and pony show that is improvised but with a generally agreed upon outcome.
    i think waxman was trying to even up the agreed upon outcome because mcnamee was getting slaughtered until waxman took his cheap shot.
    but the reality is the committee got what they wanted which was letting baseball know it has to clean up it’s act. the mitchell report was somewhat validated but not totally.

    the one” rogue” player who objected to the report got his say.
    i think the only way this goes on is if novitsky makes it his life ambition to go after clemens. novitsky has his own problems with judges in california. he may not even have a job a year from now. look at what happened to the prosecutor in the duke case.

    has anyone asked themselves why an irs agent who is supposed to be following laundered money is involved in the clemens case? is there any laundered money? i don’t see why an irs agent is there. did anyone say clemens is doing something wrong with money? didn’t pay taxes? what? why is an irs agent there?

    it looks like a personal vendetta to me and a misuse of taxpayer money to have an irs agent there. i believe federal agents should not exceed their job descriptions. i guess that’s the libertarian in me.

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  71. Boston Dave February 13th, 2008 at 9:17 pm

    randy l

    based on what it said in the article you posted last night, i think you’re taking it easy on Novitsky. There is no question he has overstepped his bounds and I am surprised it’s been allowed. Can’t someone step in and say “no” to this guy? Isn’t there any policing of this stuff?

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  73. Boston Dave February 13th, 2008 at 9:23 pm

    bronx born,

    that’s the one!

    and even though i am not a bonds fan, i found it a bit disturbing that he was not exactly treated fairly.

  74. OldYanksFan February 13th, 2008 at 9:27 pm

    randy l. – sure, to an extent. After all, they had all the testimonies except Roger’s and McNamees… and everyone knows their positions. Except for an unexpected bomb, I’m sure congress knew that the hearings would decide and settle nothing.

    I appreciate the congresswoman who scolded congress for wasting their time with this issue. It was a bi-partisan party because both sides got equal face time.

    I think only one congressperson mentioned MLB or the owners. I don’t even know if Selig’s or Fehr’s name came up once.

    I think there was only 1 or 2 congresspeople who challenged the report itself.

    3 (or 4?) Congresspeople rationalized congress being involved and then patted themselves on the back for it. Disgusting!

    So yes, it was certainly a Dog and Pony show of the highest order. Nobody wants to question the Mitchell report, because that would be a Pandora’s Box. I don’t think anyone wants Roger to go to jail, but certainly many want him to be to sacrificail lamb.

  75. Bronx Born February 13th, 2008 at 9:27 pm

    The other thing that bothered me was how there was such partisan support for each guy. Like the committee members were not being objective but simply voting party line dems for McNamee and republicans for Clemens. I for sure am not a republican, and I found the whole thing sleazy very sleazy. I do not understand how anyone can look at that report and think it was thorough. And what investigation. They were handed over to Mitchell as a present. What about the rest of the league. Why just the big hit on the Yanks. How come no Mets even though Radomski was in their locker room. And please do not get me started about Steve Phillips the guy is total slime and ESPN just looks at him like some resurrection of Howard Cosell.

  76. Boston Dave February 13th, 2008 at 9:30 pm

    Bronx Born,

    you said it all. nothing left to say…

  77. Roy Hobbs February 13th, 2008 at 9:33 pm

    Bottom line, Roger’s answers may appear suspect, but he still looks like a pretty good guy next to some of those committee clowns. You don’t see any players who weren’t named coming forward with confessions of PED use, so in my mind Pettitte is still deserving of respect. It’s too bad that every player who used PEDs wasn’t named so all those bloggers who are enjoying making their holier-than-thou comments could make them on all the team blogs.

  78. randy l. February 13th, 2008 at 9:34 pm

    boston dave-

    we’ll all be watching to see how it all plays out. anyone who is watching closely is getting a civic lesson on how our government works. it’s not a waste of time to pay attention.

    i personally hope clemens didn’t use steroids or hgh. i’m pretty happy how he came through today. i think his lawyers are too.

    it’s not over for sure yet , but i think he’s in way better shape than he was before the hearings.

  79. Boston Dave February 13th, 2008 at 9:41 pm

    randy l -

    i have learned a TON thanks to posts like yours and many others here that have driven me to do research. that included the practices of our government, the legal system and it’s procedures, and even things like the state of the FDA and supplement regulation.

    i was also personally happy with how clemens came out today. i dont think the masses would agree with us though. it seems that ESPN has decided that pettitte’s testimony = guilty.

    ESPN has spoken. their word is law.

  80. OldYanksFan February 13th, 2008 at 9:47 pm

    “ESPN has spoken. their word is law.”
    ————————————–
    Yeah… well, being innocent doesn’t sell newspapers.
    The mainstream media kissed Rogers azz for years,
    and now they’re fukking him there.
    The media has been worse then a bunch of 3rd graders on the playground.

  81. randy l. February 13th, 2008 at 9:55 pm

    boston dave-
    you’ve just convinced me to cancel my $4.95 espn insider account. espn functions as sport’s microsoft. we need an apple or google to come along to get another perspective.

    monopolies are rarely if ever good.

  82. Boston Dave February 13th, 2008 at 10:03 pm

    randy l

    haha, that’s pretty funny… but maybe not a bad idea.

    at least you can differentiate fact from fiction or at least keep an open mind about things. some of the content on espn is entertaining but there is definitely much better and less biased news out there. it wasnt long ago that i put all my faith in the espn analysts and it never occurred to me that they are trying to make money. when things are slow and even when they’re not, they need to generate rumors and fuel controversy to draw interest. people like SJ44 and others on the blog helped to open my eyes.

  83. randy l. February 13th, 2008 at 10:11 pm

    a cnn analyst said he doesn’t think the justice department will touch going after clemens because there is no solid evidence. anderson cooper is leading the discussion. interesting seeing a non sports view.

    right now they are going to talk about hgh and steroids and if they work or not. could be interesting.

  84. PJ34 February 13th, 2008 at 10:23 pm

    sweet… thanks for the tip randy l. i just put it on.

  85. randy l. February 13th, 2008 at 10:24 pm

    dr.sanjay gupta on the anderson cooper show just said there has been no human testing on human populations with hgh because it wouldn’t be ethical to give it to a test population.
    i’ve got a test population for him . how about mlb being the test poulation? many of them seem to more than willing to try it.

    i’m of course kidding. i think.

  86. OldYanksFan February 13th, 2008 at 10:29 pm

    How about testing HGH on the oversight committee?

  87. randy l. February 13th, 2008 at 10:50 pm

    oldyanksfan-
    waxman is pretty short. it couldn’t hurt. i think it might help their hearing too so they wouldn’t keep having to ask witnesses to speak up. i wouldn’t have ncnamee give the shots though. he might be kid of ticked off at a few of them. get a real doctor.

    it doesn’t matter if it’s legal or not because members of congress are not drug tested. i guess that’s because what they do isn’t as important as what baseball players do. wars and all that sort of thing don’t take a drug free mind i guess.

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