Every topic is being carefully covered
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Feb 13, 2008 
Print This Post
| 
Email This Post
Advertisement
Sponsored by:
Search
Advertisement
Follow
Mobile
Read The LoHud Yankees Blog on the go by navigating to the blog on your smartphone or mobile device's browser. No apps or downloads are required.
LoHud TV
More Videos
Advertisement
Place an ad
Call (914) 694-3581
Monthly Archives
- February 2012
- January 2012
- December 2011
- November 2011
- October 2011
- September 2011
- August 2011
- July 2011
- June 2011
- May 2011
- April 2011
- March 2011
- February 2011
- January 2011
- December 2010
- November 2010
- October 2010
- September 2010
- August 2010
- July 2010
- June 2010
- May 2010
- April 2010
- March 2010
- February 2010
- January 2010
- December 2009
- November 2009
- October 2009
- September 2009
- August 2009
- July 2009
- June 2009
- May 2009
- April 2009
- March 2009
- January 2007 - Part 1
- December 2006
- November 2006
- October 2006
- September 2006
- August 2006
- July 2006
- June 2006
- May 2006
- April 2006
- March 2006
- February 2006
Hope you doesn’t get a headache.
http://johnsterling.blogspot.c.....aches.html
Six hours? What are they discussing, other than how they are going to handle Pettitte?
At this point, they must be going over the Dominican League rosters!
Pete,
Could you imagine a 6 hour, first day of camp meeting with Joe Torre? lol
What could they be possibly talking about? How long does it take to discuss Joba & the hearings?
6 HOURS! what are they doing thier fantasy auction?
Some women is telling Andy to stop being a bible thumper (so to speak). She is critizing him for telling the truth, and not saying I don’t recall the conversation. I can’t blame Andy for what he did.
Pete – you certainly know your audience!
Out of curiousity how long were Joe T’s meetings.
SJ i’m sure Andy is a big part of the conversation. They want to make his life comfortable when he comes into camp. Probably discussing when he should speak to the media etc. The Yankees need Andy to be in the right state of mind and pitch well for us.
Andy needs to get his own story straight, apparently.
What a mess!
What a waste of time!
Should clarify my comments. SOme women on the radio.
Six hours? Are they back in high school?
the meeting just recently started… they’ve been watching the hearing since the start!
Jennifer,
A long Torre meeting lasted a half hour. His usual meetings? As short as 10 minutes.
Joe was not much for meetings. That’s not a knock, BTW.
I think meetings have a tendency to be very overrated.
I do know Cashman and Girardi are like minded guys. Both are very, very detailed oriented so, its not surprising this has turned into a peace talk type of epic.
They could be going over weekly menus, training room decor, which movies they want to watch each night, who’s stronger: Superman or the Hulk? … all kinds of important stuff.
Cut them some slack, people!
Maybe Joe is just trying to make a statement and piss the media off on the first day? Or maybe they are debating whether to rehire McNamee as an assistant coach?
Not to worry. Mons Venus is open late. The writers will have ample time before last call with the hotties.
They’re doing their male bonding rituals: playing poker, smoking cigars, taking polls on Ginger or Mary Ann, Betty or Veronica, Katharine McPhee or Carrie Underwood, etc.
I posted this question earlier, but it was probably too late in the thread.
What are the odds that Bud will now punish Andy based on his admission of HGH use in ’04? If he is suspended, how many games?
Hope Cash isn’t trying that old “Pull my finger!” joke on Joe G.
Yanks Fan-
Under the policy that was in place in 2004 the most Selig could suspend him for is 10 games
Players who test positive the first time will be suspended for 10 days.Second-time offenders will be suspended for 30 days. A third positive test gets a 60-day suspension and a fourth one year.
Andy didn’t fail any tests. If the commissioner pursues the matter, Andy just has to say then he misremembered.
Yanks Fan,
I am guessing that the House Committee members would be very displeased if Andy is reprimanded. That may not carry weight with Selig, but I’m guessing it will and Andy will not be punished.
first player up for bid is alex rodriguez, team a opens the auction at $32. team b, what is your bid….
Maybe they are hoping that if the meeting lasts forever, the press will leave and they won’t have to deal with all of the steroid and Pettitte questions today.
$20 says they’re arguing over how to properly use Joba.
I don’t blame Pettitte not to cover for Clemens. Clemens may be the guy who drag Pettitte into this drug use when you think about the whole story. Someone is just not going to lie. I just hope Pettitte decides to keep pitching for us this season after all distractions. I am just afraid Pettitte may quit pitching and may get suspended from mlb
Dave – agreed, just wondering if Bud would go the length of punishing him for the sake of more posturing. Doesn’t seem logical, but then again, neither does commissioning a franchise executive to report objectively on PEDs and baseball.
I don’t see Bud punishing Pettitte. Serves no purpose and would be going against Congress’s, and Mitchell’s desires.
Pettitte had no choice but to tell the truth. He would have put himself on the hook if he didn’t tell the truth.
He didn’t “rat” on Clemens. He was put in an awful position and did the only thing he could have done under the circumstances.
I’m sure even Clemens understands that.
Russon and Francesa think Pettitte will retire. Damn.
And this is based on what? Their opinion or facts?
Andy Pettitte isn’t going to retire and neither Mike nor the Mad Dog have ANY insight into this thing.
They are like the rest of us. Just watching it on TV.
I don’t usually do this, but I reposted this from the prior thread because I think before people talk about what Pettitte said in his deposition, they should read it first, because the hearing today did not cover everything.
Follow Pete’s link to the depositions and read Andy’s deposition. You won’t feel as uncomfortable about hit not telling about the second instance once you read it.
I also read Chuck Knoblauch’s interview. He does not implicate anyone but himself, but he does support what McNamee stated in the Mitchell report about himself (C.N.).
Please read the documents. The hearing today was not all-inclusive, because of time constraints, and all the points people wanted to make.
I don’t think Andy threw Roger under any bus. And I agree with SJ44 that I think that this all coming out, and perhaps one press conference, and Andy Pettitte will be able to move on.
But one thing that struck me in both items I read, is how much stress and pain and plain exhaustion these players play with every day. You have to take all of that into account when judging fellow human beings.
SFYanks -
I’m reading Pettitte’s deposition now and he says HGH was not on the banned list and he would not have taken HGH on either occasion had it been a banned substance by MLB.
Does anyone know when HGH was added to the banned substance list for MLB?
Thank you Doreen.
Hopefully the posters here will get a chance to read the depositions. I doubt the masses will care to.
Sox fans (and perhaps fans all over) will rip into Pettitte regardless because their team(s) conveniently escaped the Mitchell Report.
Doreen,
162 games in 180 days. They aren’t staying propped up with Red Bull and Frappucinos.
Its just reality. I know we all get caught up in the media’s “gotcha” game of who used and who didn’t.
The fact of the matter is, show me a player who isn’t using PED’s, supplements or greenies, and I’ll show you a player not playing professional baseball.
Nobody in the game, that’s right NOBODY, is not taking something to get through the season.
Now, that “something” may just be vitamins and supplements. However, due to a lot of mislabeling, especially in the DR, many players have no idea what they are taking.
I submit the greenies issue is a bigger issue than the steroids/HGH issue.
These guys kill themselves over the course of a season. You aren’t getting through it without help.
Its why all this talk about this issue is a joke to me.
We (fans, media, etc) want the players to “bust their butts”, “play hard everyday” and, “do whatever it takes to win”.
Except, of course, when it gets a little messy. Then, we want them to be like little leaguers.
Hate to burst some bubbles here but, that’s not how it is in MLB. Or, the NFL, for that matter.
Its an issue that goes far deeper than, “Did Roger Clemens do HGH”.
HGH was banned in 2005, but unprescribed meds were banned way back in the day.
I’m with Doreen, don’t make uninformed opinions; read the depositions.
I haven’t had a chance to post all day or see the whole circus just snippets on the radio and some video on SI, but here it goes, I wonder why Waxman has said over and over again that the Mitchell report was a good report and the McNamee was a credible witness…is it because Mitchell is one of them? I mean didn’t McNamee basically admit to the fact that he lied. How does that make him credible if he tells the truth sometimes and lies on other occasions?? What a joke.
Now I don’t believe that Clemens has never taken PEDs, I believe a great majority of ballplayers (60%-70%) took them at one time or another and that a lot of people knew about it or had their suspicions. But IMO I think it is BS that Selig and Fehr will try to walk away from this mess.
Lastly, I think Kramer was right, pigmen do exist, Waxman may be proof of that.
Funny how Pettitte said it wasn’t banned but why he never spoken about it.He should have retired.He made this season a little thougher.
McLovin,
Unless Pettitte has as difficult a time as you do trying to formulate anything that is remotely intelligible, I think he’ll be fine.
McLovin in the deposition it was NOT pettite who brought up the fact that it was not banned it was the committee’s lawyers who brought it up that it was not a banned substance what Andy said was that if it was on the banned list he would NOT have taken it.
Perhaps Pettitte decided to pitch because, say, he realized that this was not the end of the world?
Boston Dave,
LOL. Post of the Day! That made me laugh!
Let’s be clear about Pettitte.
What did he do? Take HGH. Why? To help heal an elbow injury and to help pre-surgery of an elbow ready to be cut (surgery).
You have to go back to that time. HGH was, and still is in some circles, thought to be a “healing” drug.
Many athletes were told HGH would facilitate healing and recovery and a LOT of players used it in that way.
It wasn’t on the list of banned substances and guys took it.
Not making excuses for it…..just stating what the belief was (and still is) in athlete circles re: HGH.
Let’s not get childish and make Pettitte out to be some street corner drug addict. He isn’t.
gayle,
here was Pettitte’s comments I was referring to:
p.39
“And when I took HGH both times, it was not banned from Major League Baseball. If it was, I would have never taken it.”
Dave -
Thanks for the info, getting into the deposition now.
Rebecca,
Can’t be. Andy has to retire. Mike and the Mad Dog said so!
Seriously folks, he has 16 million reasons not to retire.
He will talk when he gets to ST and that will be the last he discusses it.
At that point, its all about baseball.
I don’t think Andy will retire because of this. If he retires for anything it would be to stay with his family. But he’s not going to run away from this. Andy obviously wanted to do this confession a long time ago but it was more complicated than just bringing himself down.
Very sad stuff regarding Andy’s father. No wonder he didn’t talk about it before.
Mike and the Maddog- the same idiots that continuously say Pettitte and Knoblauch used steroids.
I don’t think that Pettitte will retire but I find it curious that he announced he was coming back 2 days before the report was released when he had said he probably would not decide until January. I just wonder if the Yankees would have welcomed Andy back had the Mitchell report been released before he signed his contract.
SJ44,
As you stated earlier regarding the number of supplements that athletes take, and at least as far as I know of there isn’t much research that shows any definitive negative side effects, I contest that HGH should either be removed from the MLB banned substance list or a number of the other supplements that aren’t on the banned list should be added.
I forget who it was that mentioned this on the blog a while back. Someone spoke of supplements that changed chemical composition once they enter the body. They were ‘legal’ as pills. They became ‘illegal’ after they entered the body. Yet, they can be purchased at your local nutrition store.
Andy will report to Tampa on Monday instead of tomorrow. Via WFAN.
Just finished reading the Pettite deposition for me the saddest part was the very end where he basically asked that his father not brought into this mess and you can see whay he asked not to be brought into the hearing and they committee obviously agreed.
Have to say aftrer reading that i do not think Andy misremembered anything. But we will never know the whole truth unless Clemens or McNamee comes clean so in the end what we have is waste of taxpayers money, the loss of reputations and an overall sullying of the game of baseball.
Lordy opening day cant come quick enough. Oh by the way got in the mail yesterday my Holiday Pack tickets, season tickets cant be too far behind and boy they have a special embossing this year with the stadium.
i must admit, the more I read about HGH, the more I think it may be a beneficial ‘supplement’ if taken in appropriate doses
“The journal reported that men who had taken HGH injections had shown a 8.8 percent gain in lean body mass with a 14 percent loss in body fat – without any change in diet or activity”
From the NE Journal of Medecine:
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/short/323/1/1
Mike & especially the Mad Dog are bringing up the idea of Pettitte possibly retiring before the season starts so he can distance himself from the whole steroids mess. Do you guys think pettitte would really do that? I dont but I guess they know more then me.
Could Pettite really retire??
I dont think Andys as close to Clemens as people think
Boston Dave,
That was the effects of Andro. When Andro was legal, when Mark McGuire took it, it was an over the counter supplement. Anybody buy it at any GNC.
What nobody knew, until further testing was done on it, was that once Andro entered the body, it turned into an anabolic steroid and worked as such in the body.
This was a supplement approved by the FDA without ANY of this knowledge. It was only after it was pulled off the market, that additional testing was done and it was found to turn into a steroid after it entered the body.
HGH? There are a lot of doctors out there who truly believe that, taken in proper doses, its truly a wonder drug.
Me? I don’t know. I don’t even like taking aspirin so, I’m the wrong guy to discuss what drugs are good and bad for you.
However, aside from the scare tactics and uninformed opinions, from Congress to fans to the media, re: HGH, its not completely disdained by various, well respected doctors around the world.
Its why I always say, the issue of PED’s is a very complex issue. It doesn’t lend itself to the instant analysis too many of us crave.
If he is reporting Monday, he isn’t retiring.
Don’t listen to Mike and the Mad Dog. They have no idea what they are talking about.
Andy Pettitte isn’t retiring.
He will report Monday, answer questions, then get onto the business of baseball.
Barry Bonds now knows not to put out feelers for playing in 2008. He lied in grand jury testimony.
Knoblauch was especially emphatic that he did not take steroids. And in his case it was also a matter of desparation that caused him to use HGH at all. Reading interview actually brought tears to my eyes.
We as fans joke and crack wise and make cruel comments about his inability to throw at the end of his career. But reading his words, man, that just brings an entirely different perspective. Reading what he had to say about playing for the Yankees, with regard to their schedule, was eye-opening. I guess I never quite realized this, but Knoblauch played for a couple of smaller market teams and he said that for the Yankees, they never have a light schedule – for instance, most teams get to play a day game on a getaway day. Not so the Yankees. So the travel is tougher and the play is tougher. You have to gain a new respect for what the Yankees as a team have been able to accomplish over the last 14 years.
Dave – I see your point. I mean is it worse than using cortisone (a steroid) to keep players on the field? Trouble is, there’s a lot of gray area when it comes to using a substance like HGH for rehabilitative purposes. So much of strength training and athletic performance relies on the body’s ability to recover. So how do you separate those with a noble agenda (seemingly Andy’s case) from those that will abuse it and take it everyday for faster recovery times and the ability to strengthen their bodies “quicker?”
Thanks SJ.
At least this whole ordeal has educated me quite a bit on that subject (thanks to the posters in this blog).
I also have to say, and call me Miss Naive of the Year, but after reading Pettitte and Knoblauch and listening to Clemens, I can honestly say I would believe that Barry Bonds believed he wasn’t using steroids with the clear and the cream, that he actually believed it was flaxseed oil. These guys put their bodies, their livelihood, in the hands of people who were purported experts in their field, and didn’t ask any questions.
None of us can pretend to know what it’s like to be in their shoes. Sure, there’s a lot that goes into a decision to use steroids or HGH, but it’s not all about cheating, per se. I think they want to cheat age more than anything else.
Tony, I’m sure you know just as much, if not more, about this whole steroid/hgh thing than Mike and the Maddog. They have repeatedly given out false information for the past 3 months about all of this.
Like I said, I don’t see Andy running away from this. I don’t think he could live with himself if he gave up because of something that will blow over a month into the season.
That’s because Cashman talked in long sentences for four and a half hours.
Doreen,
I would encourage everybody to read his, and Andy’s, depositions. It will eye opening to folks about the rigors of the game.
These guys all go into it with the best intentions of doing everything by the book. Unfortunately, the reality of the job gets in the way and guys have to make tough choices.
Some do the right thing and some do not.
However, for people to play judge and jury, without any facts, is really insulting to me.
Especially when these same folks want these guys to perform their best every single day.
Its why I am such a stickler for facts when it comes to hosts like Mike and the Mad Dog.
Chuck Knoblauch and Andy Pettitte did NOT take steroids. The fact these two morons continue to say they did, and people parrot those comments, is why so much misinformation gets put out there.
There are reasons both guys did what they did. Now, some folks may not agree with them but, hearing (in this case reading) their reasons why does give perspective to their thought processes.
Its a lot more complex than “you cheated”.
There is plenty of medical data, and well respected doctors, out there who would say using HGH is not cheating at all.
But, that’s another issue for another day. Time for dinner and a movie.
Night all, enjoy the evening.
yeah, mlb players have it so tough. what a joke! they are paid to work out and play a GAME for 4 hours a day for half the year. dont give me any bs about their schedule being so tough. every construction worker has a much more demanding job, as does anyone who is a maid and needs to work 10 hrs a day 7 days a week on their feet, god, players even get to sit down for HAKLF the game in a ac dugout.
i could care less if they do drugs at all bc if your kids look at anyone but you as a role model than you failed as a parent. period. however, recalling that pettite miraculously signed his 16m contract 2 days before the report solidifes for me he is as untrustworthy as mcnamee. hes lied numerous times and hids behind a holier than thou rep that is obviously as charade.
i hope he offers to renegotiate his contract bc the yankees are not getting the player they thought they were.
Doreen,
There is an article posted by randy l last night that I encourage you (and everyone) to read about the Bonds case. It’s not so much about whether Bonds knew what he was taking as it is about the government (IRS Agent Jeff Novitsy) abusing his power and taking clearly unethical (and perhaps unconstitutional) steps in the handling of the Bonds case and evidence collection. I found it quite interesting and it’s the first time I’d heard anything about it.
here it is:
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/ne.....;type=lgns
sj44, while your connections to players and the game makes for some great posts and information, it also makes you appear biased for them. playng baseball is not more demanding than teachers that have to get up at 5am and teach special ed retards for 8 hrs a day, or more tough than a salesman that has to travel all around the world the enture year and never sleeping in their bed or seeing their family more than 4 days in a row, or for janitors that clean up other peoples feces all day long for decades on end. so please dont defend these bozos for their “tough job” because you lose credibilty for eer having lived in the real world. that said, i think you are 100% correct on every other post you have had.
EYT -
do you expect anyone to take you seriously?
while you’ve made some valid points, they immediately lose any credibility when you let your complete ignorance shine through later on.
where am i ignorant?
EYT –
I think the point that has gone way over your head is that sports are extremely competitive. Even the smallest edge can make or break a player. This is not typically the case in the professions you attempted to use in your comparisons.
And until you’ve suited up for a professional sports team, how can you make authoritative statements that sports are easy and take no toll on the body? I guess that’s why nobody ever goes on the DL in baseball or IR in football. Right? You have no clue.
Boston Dave -
I did read that article this morning. I wonder what drives a person like Novitsky. Clearly in his zeal to cleanse the baseball world of illegal performance enhancing drugs, he was not quite so sterile in the performance of his own duties, it would seem.
You know EYT –
I can’t take a person like you seriously. I realize your point is that ballplayers are “living the dream,” while other people have jobs that are just as demanding, perhaps more so and are paid far less for it. Good point, except you don’t have any idea what those people do to get through their days, do you? A few after-shift beers, perhaps, or more?
Anyway, my daughter happens to be one of those, what did you call them, “special ed retards” and I would suggest if you want to make a point defending one class of people that you don’t go around insulting another. I have had it with ignorant people like you.
EYT –
1. “retards”
2. “please don’t defend these bozos”
3. “you lose credibility for ever having lived in the real world”
4. “if your kids look to anyone but you as a role model you have failed as a parent”
5. in addition, many of your assertions are ignorant
I could go on….
im didnt say they took no toll on the body, but i did do construction and there is no way they take MORE toll on the body, esp. Baseball which is by far the least demanding of the major sports.
every job is competitive, Boston Dave, because we live in America, and not China. evreyon is looking for an edge,t hats why traders do inside tips, er doctors also use amphetamines to stay awake, bartenders give free drinks for better tips and so on.
so if thats all you have, please sit down.
BD
1.Sorry to break it to you and your family but there are such things as retarded people out there*
2. your telling me damon, manny, millar, rocker, roberto alomar, albert belle etc. are not bozos?
3. in my opinion you do lose credibilty if you say baseball players have a demanding job.
4. its also my opinion that if your children look to people that they watch swing a bat at a small ball as whom they use as role models than you probably have not done the best job in raising them and might need to re-evaluate your aprenting strategies to date
5. wow, that last statement is especially meaningful and shows your strong debating skills.
*see the last girl that slept with you
EYT -
your logic (or lack thereof) was that baseball players can’t possibly have it tough because there are other professions that are tough. further, it is the level of competition that adds to the pressure and demands.
you have proven yourself to be either ignorant or just a complete dirtbag, so I’m going to leave it at that. if you want to fire back, feel free but I’m done speaking to you on this.
EYT -
this just in….
whether or not you consider some players “bozos” doesn’t qualify your ridiculous generalization that baseball players are bozos who don’t work hard.
i promise, this is my last post directed to you. I imagine there won’t be many others who will want to engage with you either…. certainly not favorably.
Just finished Andy’s deposition.
Pettitte sounds almost childlike in some of his responses. He’s a 35 year old guy who has spent almost 10 seasons in the NY area and yet still has a naivety about him. Hard for a jaded NY like to fully understand.
doreen, sorry your daughter is retarded, that truly sucks. but me using the word retard doesnt change the fact that she is in fact retarded. and im sure you would agree that the teachers of your retarded daughter have a much hardre and demanding job than a baseball player.
ok EYT, I lied. this is my last one.
you truly are an ignorant POS.
obviously not all players are bozos but the majority are not smart. im sorry if im not politically correct enough for you dave but thats why people hate people from boston.
you are generally a whiny group.
and i imagine that i dont care who wants to engage with me but i won this debate with you.
People in other jobs or lines of work do not have the equivalent of 19 year old kids with better reflexes and musculoskeletal systems breathing down their necks, with the posssibility of losing their jobs if they don’t perform as well as the young kid. Besides, plenty of people do various drugs just to get through the day. We just don’t report it in the media. Trust me. I talk to them every day.
joe i dont disagree with you at all. i just dont think that baseball is a demanding job per se in comparison to other ones. most every one in america has someone that is younger, cheaper, and more hungry for their job. everyone has the stress of payng a mortgage, raising a family, and staying employed. in fact with the average salary of $300+K a year, i woudl think basbeball players have less stress as they can work for only a handful of years and accumulate enough resources to live comfortably.
also, most people do not have contracts that pay them for years after they cannot perform see giambi and pavano. again, i dont want to hear about baseball players having it tough, maybe up thru the early 70′s where the majority had to have second jobs but no more.
I hope that if Andy learned anything from Rocket, it’s how to focus on the batter, nothing else, while pitching.
I agreed with Rebecca’s comments that this could take a load off of Andy’s shoulders for this season, and I’m hoping he gets the 20 wins he would have had last season were it not for the April/May pen.