Hearings take a break
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- February
- 13
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The two televisions in the press box at Legends Field have the hearings on. It seems like a complete waste of time for Congress but it’s good theater.
Brian McNamee appears to be a huge weasel and Clemens perhaps a little lesser of a weasel. Both have credibility issues.
The question I have is what will come of this? This looks and sounds like a trial but there will be no verdict.
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on Wednesday, February 13th, 2008 at 1:02 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Pete -
That’s exactly how I feel. Exactly. What will come of this?
The Roger Clemens Roger Clemens talks of looks more like Forrest Gump. I guess if Cashman had tried enough he would have pitched for the Yankees for free.
I think that there will be a “verdict” in the court of public opinion.
Clemens is just a much as a weasel, he is throwing everyone under the bus. His wife, his mother, his lawyers, his old nanny, Andy P, and Mac. Both are lying but Roger has the most to lose.
I”m suprised the Yankees didn’t black out every channel that was carrying this.
I should also note that the committee (and Hank Waxman) are being clobbered, as is George Mitchell.
Eleanor Holmes Norton, the delegate representing DC, is capable of being one of the nastiest people in the House. She just told Rocket, when praising his heart and ability to forgive, that she’s “sure you’re going to heaven.”
It depends on what the press does, perhaps the political press more so than their sports brethren, but it looks so far like Clemens is going to come out of this looking good. I think Waxman takes the biggest hit.
That’s a very preliminary assessment, for there is more to come, but it is how it looks so far.
There will be no resolution here, just a lot of questions and talk for the next few weeks. Both guys obviously have issues and while I sure Clemens is hiding something, I think McNamee is too.
I wanted to believe Roger, but Pettittes testimony did it for me. Clemens should have done what Andy did and things would be much better now.
So at the end of the day, its a draw. Hopefully thats the end of it.
Clemens is less of a weasel? The guy flew his old nanny he hadnt seen for 7 years out to his home to get her story. I think Clemens looks much worse here.
Really you think ROger is coming out of this looking good.?? Everyone is wrong in their accounts of this story except ROger? I don’t buy it.
Seriously, this is ridiculous. Nothing is going to come of this he said, he said junk. And what is with this seemingly Democratic/Republican divide? Its like the Dems support McNamee and The Reps support Rocket.
I think the one tidbit that is of value is Pettitte’s recollections of conversations with Rocket.
Doubts:
1. Why did Clemens reach out to the nanny upon hearing the Feds want to speak to her? Very shady.
2. Was he really at Canseco’s party?
3. Why did he continue to retain McNamee’s services?
For me, it’s “who lies the least…wins”.
jennifer,
I think they both came out looking like a horse’s a$$.
They both have inconsistencies in their stories, Roger is throwing in completely irrelevent little inspirational speeches, and McNamee is fumbling around and constantly asking for questions to be repeated.
Waste of time on too many levels.
Did they just give the nannys name?
Pete,
Good call on the weasel meters!
All I have to say is, if the government’s best witness against Clemens is Brian McNamee they will have BIG problems gaining a perjury conviction.
Great theatre and little else. It moves the bar on nothing and is just a giant waste of time.
The Federal Government holding a hearing to determine if one guy took steroids. Under the guise of it being, “for the protection of our children”.
Another sad day when people can see just how useless the US Congress has become.
Peter,
Don’t make so much sense. This will prove nothing. It is round and round me go….
If this ever goes to trial Clemens walks, end this fiasco. I know ending thi will really depress the likes of TJ quinn, Maddog, and others but end this farce………
fans if you cannot tell Clemens is a not exactly a brain surgeon. he is a great pitcher who is tough, he is not exactly a lawyer, Dr., or business person.
These guys never pay for anything, free golf, free meals, etc..
Clemens is just or was just a stud, we have no idea how they live, none…..
There is nothing wrong with Clemens side looking to interview the nanny.
If there is a witness central to your case, there isn’t a lawyer in the world who isn’t going to interview that witness.
There is nothing “shady” about it. Even though that is what Waxman was trying to imply.
Its what you do when you are representing a client in a case. She could have declined to meet with him.
Again, this is the problem with hearings such as these. The innuendos that come out of it are often very misleading.
I think that the biggest hit is on Congress. This is our tax money hard at work. While the economy goes down the tubes, the trade deficit at all time highs, a war continues taking oh so many lives and the fat cats of baseball have anti-trust exemptions. I remember when Mac broke Maris’ record and Selig in the stands with the Maris family. He knew what was going on but it was good for baseball. Yeah Right!!!!
Jorge Posada has worked with McNamee too. Okay! Should I wonder if he’s clean or not? This is the first time I’ve heard Posada’s name in this.
Don’t forget Andy’s degree of weaseliness. My only wish for all of this is that Roger really does retire and no more is heard of him outside the confines of Texas.
Praise to Stuart because Clemens sure is dumb. Pete, besides Mussina do you consider any of the current Yankees smart?
Clemens just made a good point. How did he get by the Olympic drug tests when he pitched for Team USA? They are the best drug tests in the world.
“Hearings take a break”
How about … “Give us all a break”
(not you Pete – the people running circus)
I took a permanent break from the hearings and I’m glad I did. I’ll be interested in what the outcome is after it all shakes out, but I no longer give a rat’s patootie or a rusty syringe how it all unfolds.
Just because congress can’t find something better to do doesn’t mean the fans can’t. When baseball finally starts everyone won’t be so compelled to anticipate & analyze their every move.
Play ball. Please.
BTW I liked Jim Capel’s bit on his Minnesota Twins fantasy camp experience. Sounds like a gas, and worth the aches if you have the means to do it.
“running THE circus” … sorry
Do yourself a favor and don’t get so caught up as to who is “clean” or not.
You have guys taking supplements who are dirty because the supplements aren’t properly labeled.
Most of the Dominican kids who have flunked drug tests in the minor leagues thought they were “clean”. Unbeknownst to them, the supplements they were taken were laced with junk.
That is a major issue with over the counter supplements and the Congress, despite pleadings from families whose kids have suffered because of this mislabeling, are still dragging their feet about working with the FDA and doing something about it.
Your “job” as a fan is to not determine who is “clean” and who isn’t. Its to enjoy the game.
Don’t be polyanna about this. When you play 162 games in 180 days, you need more than Red Bulls and Frappucino’s to get through the season.
That’s the reality of baseball and all the other sports.
Its why playing judge and jury in a forum such as what we are seeing today is dangerous.
Its a much more involved issue than “clean” and “dirty”.
Roger doesn’t know what a vegan is! lol
This is too funny.
If this Congressman is trying to make a point about B-12 injections, he better not talk to any NFL trainers.
They give out B-12’s like its chocolate in the NFL.
Many people have said most players have done/taken something that’s banned.
Does that make it right? No. But … see my comments above.
So sick of all this steroid talk, and hearings. I wish we could move on to just focusing on the game of baseball, but that won’t happen anytime soon, especially with Conseco’s new book coming out soon.
http://aroundthemajors.blogspot.com/
“Clemens is less of a weasel? The guy flew his old nanny he hadnt seen for 7 years out to his home to get her story. I think Clemens looks much worse here.”
———————————————————
Are you nuts? What do you think lawyers do? Any lawyer that did NOT talk to her first would have been shot.
SJ44
you’re wrong about how talking to a witness works.
First, this isn’t a trial- the committee asked for the nanny’s name. before turning it over, Clemens’s people talked to her. Clemens doesn’t have a right to talk to a witness, cross examine a witness, etc. if he did, he’d have the ability to interview the Andy Pettitte.
Also- a witness, in a trial, does not belong to one side. Clemens doesn’t have the right to talk to her first because she is “his witness.”
I’m dieing here
really I’m laughing my butt off
This is a joke. Clemens is coming off terrible in all this because he has not answered anything. The guy has dragged his “friend” (Andy) through all this for no reason but to try and save his hall of fame career. He is an embarrassment to the game.
He could have just been using Jorge’s name becuase Jorge was on the Yankees while McNamee was the “trainer”.
I wish someone would ask McNamee the circumstances under which he ‘left’ the NYPD.
What hearing are you watching? Clemens is the least Credible witness I’ve ever seen. McNamee is very, very believable. Clemens is going to jail, and he deserves to.
“If there is a witness central to your case, there isn’t a lawyer in the world who isn’t going to interview that witness.
There is nothing “shady†about it. Even though that is what Waxman was trying to imply.”
Correct. Even more correct because the dopey congressional staff didn’t say “And please don’t talk to her, just give us her contact info.” If they really didn’t want anybody to talk to her, they should have made that perfectly clear. What a joke.
One more thing. This isn’t a bake-off at the local church or a made-for-tv-movie. Congress isn’t pulling its punches and a couple of members and others have threatened Roger with criminal investigation. It’s dead serious business for the lawyers and parties involved. You bet Hardin is going all out unless told otherwise. Shame on Waxman for such an underhanded attempt to blame Clemens for his attorney’s strategic decision.
Wrong.
Clemens’ lawyers have every right to talk to the nanny.
They gave the Committee her name and they went to talk to her.
They did nothing wrong or improper.
Even Mitchell’s own representative testified to that fact.
Ota:
“McNamee is very, very believable. Clemens is going to jail, and he deserves to.”
LOL! Oh McLovin… is that you?
I’m with Bronx Born on this one – Congress looks foolish holding these hearings, especially a day after they granted both the Bush administration and the telecom industry retroactive immunity for spying on all of us for years in clear violation of the law. But they’ll go after baseball players using steroids, which, of course, has zero effect on the public good. Maybe if Clemens dumped millions of dollars in their campaign coffers, he’d get off scot-free, too.
Murph,
What do you think? If nothing else, I think Clemens avoids getting indicted for perjury.
I can’t see McNamee holding up under any type of cross-examination.
Thoughts?
What a waste of taxpayer money. Between this shirade, and Arlen Spector, how much tax payer ca$h is being flushed down the toilet?
“Clemens is going to jail”.
LOL, please, you are listening to too much Mike and the Mad Dog.
Roger Clemens isn’t going to jail.
Good God, learn a little about the system and don’t use two clowns on WFAN as your “source” for information.
see my point about Clemens and intellect was supported by his lack of knowledge on what a vegan is.
he is a pro ATHLETE THAT IS WHAT HE IS. There are very few intellectual athletes. Let’s be adults; the league, management, the owners all knew about the rampant drug use, Listen I did so how can they not????
Look at Sosa, McGwire, Ivan Rodriguez, juan gone, etc…. This i a farce, the owners treat the players like cattle and the players want the $$$$$$$$, not real complicated, sad but true…..
I dont know that I would call these guys weasels. How many people here have ever been on a witness stand, cross examined by an attorney? Its not a pleasant experience and almost everyone ends up looking bad after cross. Now magnify that by 100 (Congressional hearing, national television, etc). Under the circumstances, I don’t think Roger is doing that bad of a job.
There is no way Clemens would ever be convicted. there is no way McNamee’s evidence would ever be used in a court of law, therefore this is a farce with no conclusion.
maddog, and other morons will think what they think regardless, this is again a joke…
Detroit What is right they can make anything look bigger then it is etc. I don’t know becomes I knew and the beat goes on…
The perfect example is the issue with the bruise(or whatever they called it) on Clemens buttocks, 2 experts 2 different conclusions.
Listen Andy P told his wife(sounds like hearsay to me) so what import is Pettitte’s wife recollection????Again inadmissable in court……..
Are they seriously talking about what “It is what it is” means?
Did anyone elses jaw just hit the floor?
He might not be convicted in a court of law. But Roger will be convicted in a court of public opinion.
DocG…
Please keep the politics on Daily Kos or wherever you hang out. Our concern, for this brief moment, is the Mitchell-Waxman-Clemens-McNamee show. We’re here because we are Yankees fans.
Once this is done, Pete will report more to us from Spring Training, and we’ll eat it up like the fans we are and react. The soapboxes here are reserved for where should Joba start the season and what about Giambi at first.
Thanks, dude.
Roger did something.
He’s not going to jail.
The nanny thing is mildly suspicious. A phone call could’ve achieved the same purpose.
So, does McNamee have a PhD or not?
Lesson learned. If you’re a millionaire and people have access to your homes, belongings, and family, then do a freaking background check.
Here come the crocodile tears. If he wanted to protect his wife, he should have come clean in December.
yeah of course he will be convicted in the court of public opinion.. I do believe he took drugs but I can never be sure and really who gives a crap…
Yeah guys like Maddog have agenda’s and do not like Clemens for many good reasons but that is not fair… Clemens is a baffoon but he was the best pitcher of the last 70 yrs and that is not debateable….
Anyone who thinks Clemens is going to jail is nuts. Perjury is very hard to prove. He may lose in the court of public opinion. But in a court of law as other people have mentioned, none of this evidence would ever come in due to hearsay evidence rules/chain of custody evidence requirements. Not only that but perjury requires proof of knowingly lying and this, like all crimes must be proved beyond a reasonable doubt. Reasonable doubt means that you must be about 99.9% sure. Can anyone really say they are 99.9% sure that Clemens did steroids/HGH based on questionable/contradictory evidence, uncredible witnesses AND the fact that there is NO smoking gun (receipts, paperwork, admissions)? No way a jury would rule against Clemens.
lol. Congresswoman: “Tell us about your regime. Your workout.”
She’s adressing the question i had
Your “regime” of conditioning!! Wow!
The congresspeople are coming off like they already chose their side, Andy came off looking like a lost puppy who is incapable of making a decision for himself, Debbie came out looking like a habitual user, Roger came out looking like a blubbering liar, and McNamee came out looking (to use Pete’s words) like a weasel.
This is all so meaningless. If you already had an opinion either way, all it did was make you say “yes I still believe Clemens” or “yes I still believe McNamee”.
i thought he was already tried and hung by the court of public opinion before today?
mel and she represents us.
the phrase “It is what it is†annoys me. it’s really overused lately…
Wow, heroes, thats going to get this guy in trouble after the whole Townse thing in the paper
jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge
February 13th, 2008 at 2:05 pm
He might not be convicted in a court of law. But Roger will be convicted in a court of public opinion.
Especially when the court of public opinion is partially composed of people prone to hysterical commentary and overuse of exclamation points like you.
Can we please retire the phrase ‘throwing so-so under the bus’.
The only way Clemens will go to jail is if he attacks McNamee.
Mark Alan,
The fact that our tax dollars are being wasted on this nonsense is not to be ignored; in fact, it’s a major, unspoken part of the story. It’s a shame that we can’t get this kind of vigorous investigation from our duly elected officials on matters of import.
Jason Kidd has been traded to Dallas
My God! Is Waxman being paid by McNamee? His summary includes only a few of dozens of conclusions, that all happen to go against Roger, and then APOLOGIZES to McNamee!!!
SJ44 – SAY SOMETHING! How inappropriate was Waxman’s conclusion?
SJ:
Sorry I didn’t respond sooner. I got a little busy there.
A perjury indictment now seems like more trouble than it’s worth. McNamee’s credibility is pretty poor. His answers today become part of the eventual trial record if there is a trial. Pettitte, sorry to say, even has credibility problems now. But Roger’s attack on Pettitte’s testimony is one of faulty recall, not fabrication.
Perjury cases need to be rock crushers, not chin pullers. If the jury has to wonder, then I think you are looking at reasonable doubt and even the overzealous Ivy Leaguers at Main Justice will have to take a pass on this one. (Assuming there is no new evidence of course).
Plus, as I wrote earlier, assuming arguendo that McNamee injected Rocket, how do we even know he shot him with Steroids or HGH without scientific analysis? You can’t take McNamee’s word for it and Radmoski wasn’t there and there are chain of custody issues out the wazoo. If Clemens is to be tried for lying about using steroids, doesn’t the Government have to prove he actually took steroids?